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Speaker 1: Bye bye, miss American Pie. Not this week. Music legend

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Speaker 1: Don McClain is my guest to talk about the fiftieth

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Speaker 1: anniversary of his iconic song and how he's refused to

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Speaker 1: let the music die all on this Arroyo Grande. Come on,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Everyone, go subscribe to a Arroyo Grande.

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Speaker 1: Now turn the notifications on so you know what's coming.

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Speaker 1: And if you'd like to support the show, visit Raymondrooyo

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Speaker 1: dot com click donate. All your donations are tax deductible.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Don McClain is a legend of music

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Speaker 1: who's on the show today. Of course, his song American

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Speaker 1: Pie is so iconic, landing him in the Grammy Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame Songwriters Hall of Fame over fifty years ago.

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Speaker 1: He wrote the classic tune, and he is still going

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Speaker 1: strong at eighty. He tells me why he wrote the

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Speaker 1: legendary ode, the many that followed, and the lessons he

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Speaker 1: picked up along the way. Here's Don McClain. Don, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show. I'm so glad you're here. I've been

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Speaker 1: thank you very much music for so long.

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Speaker 2: It's very nice of you. Thank you, Don.

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Speaker 1: Despite your first love of early rock and roll, which

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Speaker 1: we'll get to in a minute. You fell in love

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Speaker 1: with folk music, and the legendary Pete Seeger became your mentor.

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Speaker 1: You sailed the Hudson River with him in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: performing in river towns and raising awareness about environmental pollution.

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Speaker 1: What did Sieger teach you about performing that you carry

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Speaker 1: with you today.

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Speaker 2: Well, one thing he taught me is you can make

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Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes on stage and not be thrown

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Speaker 2: or you know, get flummoxed over it. He would make

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Speaker 2: really big clangers on stage, big mistakes, and he would

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Speaker 2: just say of shake his head and you know, carry on.

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Speaker 2: And I was quite a perfectionist, you know, everything had

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Speaker 2: to be exactly right. So he loosened me up quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, you know, and realized, just get out there

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Speaker 2: and do it. You know, you know where you're going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But one thing I want to mention that's kind of

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Speaker 2: interesting is that Pete Seeger and his people from the

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Speaker 2: thirties and forties didn't know anything about rock and roll.

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Speaker 2: They didn't like rock and roll. They were brought up

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Speaker 2: on big bands, right. So when the next generation of

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Speaker 2: people that liked folk music came along in the late fifties,

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Speaker 2: the first generation, the Seegers, the Lomaxes, whatever, the Weavers.

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Speaker 2: They forgot that we were brought up on really unrock

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Speaker 2: and roll. So when the time came, Dylan you know,

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Speaker 2: went electric and everything. Yeah, because that old rock and

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Speaker 2: roll spirit was calling him. And then after that you

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Speaker 2: had these groups, you know, Crosby, Stills and Nash and

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Speaker 2: the Mamas and the Papas and the Birds. These were

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Speaker 2: all seemingly folk based, but everybody in those groups were

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Speaker 2: brought up on Elvis Presley and Little Richard and the

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Speaker 2: Everly Brothers. And that's the one thing they never understood.

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Speaker 2: They got all bent out of shape. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: leaving the they're leaving the behind the calling of Woody

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Speaker 2: Guthrie and all this stuff. But that wasn't our background.

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Speaker 2: Our background was really Elvis Presley and the Everly Brothers. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I just.

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Speaker 2: Realized that recently, you know, that they were way different

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Speaker 2: than we were. They were big band people.

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Speaker 1: Don By age five, you were already captivated by music.

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Speaker 1: I know you're spending hours listening to radio and records.

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Speaker 1: What were you listening to and what was the sound

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Speaker 1: that first grabbed you? Obviously it wasn't big band.

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Speaker 2: We had some seventy eight RPM records in the house.

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Speaker 2: See I'm pretty old. I was born in nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 2: at the end of World War Two, and so of

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Speaker 2: the time I was five, it was only like nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty or fifty one. We didn't have a TV at

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Speaker 2: that point. We had a you know, record player and

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Speaker 2: these old seventy eight so what was ever was on

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Speaker 2: the radio. And I was home a lot in those

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Speaker 2: years because of my asthma condition, which would lead to pneumonia,

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Speaker 2: and I would be just flat on my back with

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Speaker 2: nothing to do. I should have been doing homework, but

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Speaker 2: I couldn't function. But I could listen to the radio

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Speaker 2: and later on watch the television. So I created, I guess,

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Speaker 2: a fantasy world for myself with much more connection with

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Speaker 2: all of this stuff than the average kid who was

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Speaker 2: very busy, you know, with schoolwork. And so it created

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Speaker 2: a kind of a weird guy in me. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the things I initially first heard were very straight normal

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Speaker 2: thing that you would see on your hit parade, let's

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Speaker 2: say in nineteen fifty or fifty two. You know, the

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Speaker 2: oh this cornball thing, shrimp boats are coming, you know,

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Speaker 2: whatever it was, you know the songs. Yeah, yeah, novelty songs,

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Speaker 2: Christmas novel I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, fifty six came along and Elvis Presley revolutionized

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Speaker 2: everything with the you know, Heartbreak Hotel because that was

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Speaker 2: a different sound. Nobody had ever heard a sound like that,

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Speaker 2: and he was on a record label RCA Victor that

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Speaker 2: had the power to put him on the radio all

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Speaker 2: over the country instead of most rock acts that were

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Speaker 2: on tiny, little record labels that might break out with

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Speaker 2: a hit. You know, I think the Everlades are the

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Speaker 2: most interesting because they were on this little label called

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Speaker 2: Cadence Records, and they sold one million cellar after another.

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Speaker 2: They didn't need a big distribution company they were so popular.

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Speaker 1: And I know I read where you listened to Buddy

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Speaker 1: Holly and Little Richard. Of course the Weavers you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Darren. Yeah, but I want to fast forward a

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Speaker 1: little bit and then I'll take you back to the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You had this concept kicking around for a while that

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Speaker 1: you wanted to write a big song about America, but

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Speaker 1: you had trouble kind of pulling it together. Take me

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Speaker 1: back to February of nineteen fifty nine. You were a

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Speaker 1: teen don and you're delivering newspapers and you see this headline,

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Speaker 1: a fateful headline. Tell me how American Pike came together

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Speaker 1: from that moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, I had no concept of writing songs when I

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Speaker 2: saw that headline. When I was thirteen years old. I

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Speaker 2: had no idea that my father would die a year

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Speaker 2: later and that I would be the head of the household.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea that I was going to be

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Speaker 2: a singer who plays the guitar and known all over

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Speaker 2: the world. None of that was all and you know,

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Speaker 2: a possibility. Even I was just a little child, basically,

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Speaker 2: and was shocked by this story, which was on the

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Speaker 2: front page of the Standard Star, which was a newspaper

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Speaker 2: that I was delivering. And it shocked me. And I

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Speaker 2: really was traumatized by it. And believe it or not,

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Speaker 2: and it said I think it said three stars killed

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Speaker 2: in plane crash or something like that, and didn't he

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Speaker 2: I don't even think it had their pictures or their names,

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Speaker 2: you know. I just read it. Couldn't believe who they were.

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Speaker 2: And uh, because these were things that I was I

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Speaker 2: was mightily interested in. Buddy Holly's music. He really spoke

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Speaker 2: to me more than anything else. And at that time

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Speaker 2: I developed a fascination really before almost anybody, with everything

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Speaker 2: around him and what happened to him and his wife

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Speaker 2: Maria Elena, and his family and this and that. I

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Speaker 2: would You really couldn't find out anything about anything. Back

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Speaker 2: in nineteen fifteen nine or sixty. There was nothing written

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Speaker 2: about music stars, rock and roll stars. There were no

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Speaker 2: books written about these people. There were no even articles.

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Speaker 2: All you had was the back of records to look

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Speaker 2: at albums, and albums were very hard to come by

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Speaker 2: because they were expensive. We were, you know, at that age,

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Speaker 2: we were into our single records, singles, you know, forty five,

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Speaker 2: I had lots of those.

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Speaker 1: But so you're right, so you're so moved by this moment,

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Speaker 1: and obviously the plane goes down and it's buddy Holly

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Speaker 1: Vallens and the big Bopper. I know, my friend Deandmucci

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be on that flight too, and decided

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: He knows more about this than anybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Deon tells me, you know, he only he

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Speaker 1: couldn't justify the expense, so we took bus, sparing his life.

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Speaker 1: When American Pie was released in late nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: it was eight and a half minutes double a sided single,

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Speaker 1: the first half on one side, second on the other.

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Speaker 1: Did anyone tell you this is too long?

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Speaker 2: Don Well, the record labels didn't have the technology to

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Speaker 2: put eight minutes on one side of a forty five,

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Speaker 2: so they played the album cut. And the reason that

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Speaker 2: happened was that initial the record label released a short

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Speaker 2: little record that was about three minutes, which was all

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Speaker 2: chorus and two verses, and it shot to number one.

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Speaker 2: Then people bought the album, and when they bought the album,

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Speaker 2: they said, that's not the song. They started complaining in

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Speaker 2: droves to the.

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Speaker 1: Radio station.

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Speaker 2: Radio stations, and you know, they were divided into two areas.

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Speaker 2: There was the regular station that played stuff, and then

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Speaker 2: there was the top forty guys you know who, and

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Speaker 2: the top forty stations who played just Top forty. So

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Speaker 2: I was getting Top forty play with this thirty It

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Speaker 2: was this three minute record, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: the people were banging O, No, it's not the one.

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Speaker 2: They have to play the real thing. So they didn't

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Speaker 2: have anything to play. So they went and got the

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Speaker 2: album and played the album cut in the control room

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Speaker 2: when they were running down the top ten. And what

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Speaker 2: you got when you went to the store now was

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Speaker 2: a two sided record, a part one and part two.

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Speaker 2: So that's how they sold it. But they still couldn't

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Speaker 2: put eight and a half on one side of a

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Speaker 2: forty five Wow, and boy did it did it sell

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Speaker 2: a lot of albums. Let me tell you that right

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Speaker 2: now sold like hotcakes. And look it goes to number

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Speaker 2: one for four weeks.

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Speaker 1: Don, it's the longest song to hit number one on

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Speaker 1: Billboard's Hot one hundred for literally fifty years until Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift's extended cut of All Too Well in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: one broke your record. Why did it have that staying power?

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Speaker 2: Don mcclin, I have no idea? Come on, oh like

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Speaker 2: I have no No one knows these things this. There's

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Speaker 2: a documentary movie called The Day the Music Died the

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Speaker 2: story of Don McClain's American Pie, and you can see

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Speaker 2: it on Paramount Plus. You can buy it on Amazon,

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Speaker 2: or you can even see it on Amazon if you

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Speaker 2: don't want to buy it, but it will tell you

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Speaker 2: all the improbable things that happened in order for this

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Speaker 2: song to get where it got and to do what

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Speaker 2: it did. There were so many unbelievable things that happened

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Speaker 2: at the right moment, and the most important thing was

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Speaker 2: that the musicians couldn't play the song. Now, there are

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Speaker 2: musicians around now who were on those sessions and who

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Speaker 2: are saying they knew it was a hit and they

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Speaker 2: were so excited, and that is absolutely false. For a month,

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Speaker 2: we tried to play that and all I did was say,

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Speaker 2: you guys, you know. Then we go back to drawing,

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Speaker 2: doing three or four more other songs for the American

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Speaker 2: Pie album, and then I would write another one and

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Speaker 2: we'd do that one, go back to American Pie. It

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Speaker 2: was just terrible. I said, this is a poka, this

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Speaker 2: is awful. And one guy, Paul Griffin, a piano player

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Speaker 2: who he was a black man who understood stride piano

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Speaker 2: and gospel piano like very few people, came in and

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Speaker 2: he said that after he heard my guitar and his

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Speaker 2: headphones pounding away, that he knew exactly how to play that.

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Speaker 2: And once he played it. He and I created the

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Speaker 2: groove for this record, and the other guys fell right

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Speaker 2: in because now they knew what to do, but prior

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Speaker 2: to that moment they were clueless. So you have to

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Speaker 2: make a good record in order to have for us

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Speaker 2: to even be talking about the song now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the lyrics are really a tapestry. It's really

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Speaker 1: a collage of images and references.

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Speaker 2: What it is and collage.

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Speaker 1: And look to use one of your album titles. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the Jesture, by the way, could be Bob Dylan, The

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Speaker 1: King could be Elvis. You reference the father Son and

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Speaker 1: Holy Ghost. You've said you meant that literally. Even Dylan's

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Speaker 1: old own son asked you what certain lines meant. You

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Speaker 1: wouldn't tell him.

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Speaker 2: Why not, don because it's none of his business. It's

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Speaker 2: meant to be what it is. I'm not going around

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Speaker 2: explaining what I do. Ask him if he asks his

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Speaker 2: father to explain what he does. Dog, Okay, you have

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Speaker 2: to say boo about anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm making a note.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing it, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: people think people seem to think that what I do

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Speaker 2: is some sort of a parlor game. It's not. I

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Speaker 2: explained it in this video, I go over it. I said,

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Speaker 2: some of these things I just invented. Some of these

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Speaker 2: things meant two things at once. You know, I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to help these people out who were in such great need,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't do any good because they keep asking

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Speaker 2: me the same stuff. And I told the kid Dylan's son,

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Speaker 2: I said, look, if i'd want to mention his name,

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Speaker 2: I would have you know, I mentioned Ames Dean. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you did? You know? This was all part of what

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Speaker 2: I was doing, and it was What I love about

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Speaker 2: this is that is that people ask questions about the

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixties. In the nineteen sixties politically especially is the

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Speaker 2: most important time to ask questions about because we had

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Speaker 2: three people who were leaders to be assassinated right under

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Speaker 2: our noses, and the American public accepted it. Oh yes,

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Speaker 2: it's just one person again to kill this person. You know, Oh,

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Speaker 2: where do you get the money? We don't know, where

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Speaker 2: do you come from, We don't know when was background,

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Speaker 2: We don't know, Silence go away, end of story. Three times.

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Speaker 2: So that this is how much the people that run

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Speaker 2: things did not want change. They did not want civil rights,

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Speaker 2: they did not want Vietnam to come to an end.

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Speaker 2: And these people that spoke out about these things and

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Speaker 2: tried to and we were susceptible to this because the

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Speaker 2: folk music movement had suddenly morphed into a modern musical movement,

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Speaker 2: which was writing songs about what was happening. Now, they

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Speaker 2: weren't singing skipped them alou anymore, okay, or you know,

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Speaker 2: or some English folk song. Now they were talking about

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Speaker 2: the big money. And now they were talking about all

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Speaker 2: these different songs about about the war and about we

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Speaker 2: shall overcome became an anthem and someone and so forth.

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Speaker 2: So when when people get restless, you know, things start

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Speaker 2: to happen.

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Speaker 1: Don Do you think the oblique quality of some of

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Speaker 1: the lyrics, even the confusing parts, is that part of

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Speaker 1: the power and the fascination that's held people's attention to

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Speaker 1: this song for half a century.

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Speaker 2: Now, well, it's a it's a very good blaye, if

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Speaker 2: I may say so myself. I mean, I hate to

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Speaker 2: talk about it in this way, but it is has

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Speaker 2: lasted and kept it allure for fifty years, and really

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Speaker 2: it is a good blending of music and lyric. And

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Speaker 2: I think that an end. Because of Ed Freeman, the

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Speaker 2: record producer, we made a very good record. Well that

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Speaker 2: is captivating, and that's the key.

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Speaker 1: And there's also something left to the imagination. So it's

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Speaker 1: always fascinating to listen and listen again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and young people share it with their families, you know,

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Speaker 2: fathers and daughters listen to it, and families sing it

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Speaker 2: in the car. And it's got many levels. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's got the how many bottles of beer on the

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Speaker 2: wall level for when you're going in the car with

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Speaker 2: the family, and it's got the oh, well, what was

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Speaker 2: this or who was that? And so they started asking

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Speaker 2: question I wanted questions to be asked about that decade,

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Speaker 2: that that was the reason why I constructed the lyrics

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Speaker 2: the way I did. But I make every song that

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Speaker 2: I make, and again there's this is my masterpiece. But

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Speaker 2: everything that I do is different from whatever else I did,

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Speaker 2: So Vincent the Vincent lyric is not anything like or

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Speaker 2: and I Love You So, or Castles in the Air

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Speaker 2: or Chain Lightning or Crossroads. These are all done differently,

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Speaker 2: but none had the everlasting appeal that American Pie has had.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very thankful for that because it brings people

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Speaker 2: back to other songs and other albums that I have done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to talk about Vincent in a moment.

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Speaker 1: It was one of my favorite songs, but the day

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Speaker 1: the music died, that phrase has entered really our cultural lexicon,

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Speaker 1: and it was about so much more.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: It was about something ending in American culture, something that

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Speaker 1: you saw slipping away throughout the entire fifties and into

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Speaker 1: the early sixties.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it all depends on how you look

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Speaker 2: at it. That was my way of looking at it.

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Speaker 2: That was my generation's way of looking at it, because

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Speaker 2: we were on the business end of the draft board,

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Speaker 2: so we saw a lot of bad things happening, but

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of great things happening in America. Also,

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Speaker 2: all the advances, the business things that were happening, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, so many things, technological things. So this was

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Speaker 2: the young person's point of view, but it really has

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Speaker 2: to some degree turned out to be the correct point

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Speaker 2: of view in some ways, because there's been a bit

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Speaker 2: of a I would say, I hate to use the

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Speaker 2: word moral, but our institutions have let people down, and

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Speaker 2: you have so much more drug addiction and homelessness and

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Speaker 2: all this stuff which shouldn't be in a country that

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Speaker 2: has the resources that we have. I mean, same story

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Speaker 2: that was a part of American Pie fifty years ago.

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Speaker 2: It's just gotten worse.

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Speaker 1: Madonna covered the song in two thousand year I'm one

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Speaker 1: hit with it. Garth Brooks performed it for half a

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Speaker 1: million people in Central Park. American Pie has been played

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Speaker 1: at presidential events. Just last year. You heard it blaring

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Speaker 1: out the windows of the North American College in Rome

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Speaker 1: when Pope Leo was elected. I mean, will you think

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Speaker 1: what when you see all of that? Don I think

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Speaker 1: I did it?

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Speaker 2: Huh? That's what I did. I did it. I succeeded.

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Speaker 2: They can't take it away from me, and believe me,

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Speaker 2: they'd like to. They can't ruin me. They can't diminish me.

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Speaker 2: Let's see them do what I did. That's my challenge

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Speaker 2: any of the people out there who might want to

359
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Speaker 2: diminish me, or might want to say I'm this or

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Speaker 2: I'm that. And a lot of you know, songwriters or

361
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Speaker 2: jail and a lot of critics are critical, you know,

362
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Speaker 2: and I say, well, O, can you accomplish something? Let's

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Speaker 2: see you do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Don your father died. You mentioned this when you

365
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Speaker 1: were fifteen. How did that loss shape you? And I

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Speaker 1: know it's had a deep effect on your music.

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't have any any guard rail anymore. I

368
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Speaker 2: didn't have anybody to tell me, you know, you have

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Speaker 2: to stay in your lane, which is certainly what would

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Speaker 2: have happened. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind

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Speaker 2: that if I had taken the direction that I took,

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Speaker 2: that I would have been stranged from my father forever.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't. He wasn't there, and so it was

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Speaker 2: kind of a sadness tinged with excitement because and now

375
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Speaker 2: I didn't really care would anybody. I still don't care

376
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Speaker 2: what anybody thinks about me. It's funny. I'm funny that way,

377
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Speaker 2: you know. I will do what I want to do,

378
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Speaker 2: and I do not care what. I'm not interested in

379
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Speaker 2: fitting in. I'm not interested in being liked. I am

380
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Speaker 2: interested in doing the things that I need to do,

381
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Speaker 2: the music that I want to make. I want to

382
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Speaker 2: say the things I want to say and get those

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Speaker 2: on recordings and get them out there, and that I

384
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Speaker 2: have done in the last fifty years, and it has

385
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Speaker 2: not been easy because bringing up Bob Dylan again, everybody

386
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: sounded like Bob Dylan, and the one thing I wanted

387
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Speaker 2: to do is never sound like Bob Dylan good moves.

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Speaker 2: So I don't sound anything like a guy who is

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Speaker 2: blues bassed because I'm not blues to bass, you know.

390
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very interesting. Don You were shopping around your

391
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Speaker 1: first album, Tapestry before Carol King released an album with

392
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Speaker 1: the same name. Uh huh seventy two record labels seventy

393
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Speaker 1: two turned you down on that pin I think it

394
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Speaker 1: was that many, but well that's what I read.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, well it gets longer.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, most people would have quit after that

397
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Speaker 1: kind of rejection after five or ten. What kept you going?

398
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Speaker 2: I knew I was good. I knew I had something

399
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Speaker 2: that nobody else had, and I knew I had to

400
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: make that record. I had to get it out because

401
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: that was the way I could unlock the door and

402
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: push it open a little bit. And that's what Tapestry did,

403
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Speaker 2: because and I Love You So and Castles in the

404
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: Air were on that record. Even though it had so

405
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Speaker 2: many other unusual songs on it that people reference, you know,

406
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Speaker 2: Orphans of Wealth or a General Store or Magdalen Lane,

407
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Speaker 2: these songs. Tapestry is about the environment. This is in

408
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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy now, and so I knew I had to

409
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Speaker 2: get the door open. And that was right because the

410
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Speaker 2: minute that album came out, it came out on Metea

411
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Speaker 2: Arts Records, which was run by a man named Alan

412
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Speaker 2: Livingstone who knew how to sell records, and he ran

413
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Speaker 2: the Capitol Records and turned Capital into a major force.

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Speaker 1: And during the heyday, the Sinatra, Nat Can Cole, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Alan Livingston.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but also the Beatles, the Beach Boys, and the

417
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Speaker 2: on the folk side, you know, the Kingston Trio. They

418
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: were his. So anyway, he was very proud of this

419
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Speaker 2: album and of me, and they lost their backing, I

420
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: guess whatever, and they were about to they were going

421
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Speaker 2: under while I was making the American Pie albums. So

422
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Speaker 2: that's one of the first amazing miracles that I talked about,

423
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: of many, I almost didn't have a record label at all.

424
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Speaker 2: So but the good thing about the Tapestry album is

425
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Speaker 2: that I was headlining all the nightclub's college concerts all

426
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Speaker 2: over the country. So I broke through to another a

427
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: major level. On underground radio FM radio, and then Pete

428
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: fordon Tell and New York played the whole album. They

429
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Speaker 2: would play the whole record from the beginning to the end.

430
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Speaker 2: So this was unprecedented for me. This is a huge thing,

431
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: and when American Pie came out, it just traded on

432
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Speaker 2: that and boom, you know, I.

433
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: See, because I know Media Arts was brought out by

434
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: United Artists. Tell me about that second album, which is

435
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: American Pie, and how you approached it. I mean, what

436
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: was the lesson you would offer to people on their

437
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 1: second time out, after they've already emerged and done their

438
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: their premiere, your sophomore effort. What lesson did you learn

439
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: from that album and how did you approach Well.

440
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: The lesson I learned that it should have been five

441
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: albums later, you know, and then then the progression would

442
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: have been normal. And of course I ended up having

443
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: stantial stardom all over the world. But it was weird.

444
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 2: It was always like, you know, this thing just blew up,

445
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 2: you know, and people couldn't figure out whether that was

446
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: good or bad. But you know, they they they they

447
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: kept listening. The album just was a phenomenon because it

448
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: had Vincent on it next, which is totally different, and

449
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: that went to number one all over the world. So

450
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: and then of course following that, there was a lull.

451
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: So now they were ready to kill me, you know,

452
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: because now I didn't have I would have had. There

453
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: are the hits, Yeah, a big one, and I didn't

454
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: do that. And in fact, I did the opposite. I

455
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: did an album called Don McClain which had a dradle

456
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: on it and if We Try, And these were not

457
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: big hits, but they were top forty and and so

458
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to slow things down because I was not

459
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 2: handling all this terrible well, it was just a lot

460
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: for me. I didn't know anything about this stuff. All

461
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: I knew about was writing songs and singing and going

462
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 2: in the studio.

463
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: Stardom.

464
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't understand any of that, you know. I

465
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: didn't really want any of that. So I found a

466
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: place that was slightly under the radar, which I was

467
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: very comfortable with. And I've been able to survive these

468
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 2: fifty years and doing that.

469
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: Well, Don Vincent, I have to mention Vincent amazingly. Tupac

470
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: Shakur called this one of his favorite songs, saying, that's

471
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: how I want to make my songs feel. Now you've

472
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: got a rapper and a folk valladeer connected by a painting.

473
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: You were playing gigs, and you're on a porch in Stockbridge, Massachusetts,

474
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: and you're reading a biography of Vincent van Goh, written

475
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: by his brother Theo. Tell me about that moment and

476
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: how it led to Vincent.

477
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: Well, I wrote the song and I was singing for

478
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: some high school kids that night somewhere. I would always

479
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: I was in the process that I was hand to mouth, really,

480
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: even though tapestry was out, I was grabbing two hundred

481
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: here and five hundred there and fifty dollars here, and

482
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: that's how I was doing. I was very busy all

483
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: the time, and nineteen seventy and I sang the song

484
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 2: for them, and they weren't really listening, you know, for

485
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: a while. And then once that song was played, everybody

486
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: was very quiet and they were completely transfixed on the song.

487
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: And I thought that was very unusual. So again I

488
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: made a decent record of it, which wasn't overdone with

489
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: lots of strings. You know, these songs take a song

490
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 2: like Vincent just stopped for a moment, and that's a

491
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: song that could be a very terrible song, a sung

492
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 2: incorrectly orchestrated over the top. It could be very you know,

493
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: very very poor taste. So it had to be done

494
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: right on the edge of that fine line. And both

495
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: Ed Freeman and I understood that. He made me sing

496
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: that thing I think about forty times, and then most

497
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 2: of the one take we used, and then he just

498
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: added some things and some strings at the end, which

499
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: I thought were very moving. So yeah, but you know,

500
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: you're making this stuff up as you go along. But

501
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: the wonderful thing was that in those days, the audience

502
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: knew what they wanted, and we, as young people, knew

503
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: what they wanted. You know, we knew that. So that's

504
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 2: why there were so many successful artists around, because they

505
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: knew that audience.

506
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: I was so struck that you wrote those lyrics on

507
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: a paper bag looking at the a print of Starry Night,

508
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: Ven Ghost, Storry Night? Is that? Is that really how

509
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: it came to be?

510
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: I brought, I wrote they the lyrics, I amended them

511
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: on a paper bag. But I wrote most of the

512
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: lyrics on this green paper that I have that I

513
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: got out of the garbage in New York City. It

514
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: was from a printer's house. I had about this much

515
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: of it, and I would write songs on it. So

516
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: I wrote those fifteen pages of vincent lyrics that I wrote.

517
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: But I did I didn't you know, we were just

518
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: making I was just making the things up. As I

519
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: was going along, I saw I was in New York

520
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: City and I was desperate for material for this album

521
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: because I didn't have any. And I see this circular

522
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: about sister Fatima, and I grabbed that and put it

523
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: in my pocket and went home and wrote a song

524
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: about her, you know, and it all fit the American

525
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: pie idea. You know that somehow this was a mystical thing.

526
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: Everything about that album is Crossroads is a very important

527
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: song on that record. But people like very much when

528
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: I perform at Winterwood, Empty Chairs so much the grave.

529
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a dream that I had. And George

530
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: Michael ended up singing that on television to protest the

531
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: attack on Iraq by the Bush administration. He's the only

532
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: person who said a damn thing. He did and used

533
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: that song and I did a beautiful job. And actually

534
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: when I heard him singing it, I realized why he

535
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: was such a good singer. So there was a whole

536
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: lot of stuff on that record.

537
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: The ending of Vincent reads they would not listen. They're

538
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: not listening still, perhaps they never will. Were you writing

539
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: about yourself the artist condition?

540
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't writing about me. I was just writing

541
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: about people in general. I guess, you know, they never

542
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: seem to learn when things happen. It just seems to

543
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: happen over and over. You know, we're always watching history

544
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: happen over again. It's amazing how it repeats itself. I

545
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: guess it has to do with the the function of

546
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: the human psyche or something. But you know, we have

547
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: these boom and bust periods, all sorts of different things

548
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: that happen over and over again. People never seem to

549
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: get it, but then they have to learn the lesson

550
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: all over again. You know, have another world war or whatever.

551
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: They need to figure things out. But no, I.

552
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, don I have to talk about some other songs

553
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: in your catalog. I mean you mentioned it reference to

554
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: a moment ago and I Love You So. Perry Como

555
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: turned that into a Top thirty hit, Elvis performed it,

556
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 1: Glenn Campbell, Harry Connick Junior. I mean, the list goes

557
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: on and on. It was the first dance Prince Harry

558
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: and Megan Markle danced at their wedding, and yet you

559
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: wrote it on your first album and nobody bought it.

560
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: What does it feel like to watch a song like

561
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: that take on a life of its own, beyond you,

562
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: beyond what you ever imagine.

563
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the question of what does it feel like?

564
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: Is the question. Yeah, all the questions that you're asking

565
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: really are what does it feel like? And it feels

566
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: very unreal. My whole life has felt very unreal. Very

567
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 2: blessed to have the ability that I was given and

568
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: have the brain that I have, because I could understand

569
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: what I'm doing instead of being having it sweep over

570
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 2: for me. One of the reasons why I wanted to

571
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: slow things down was I don't like having things be

572
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 2: out of control. I like to be able to think,

573
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: and I like solitude.

574
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: And.

575
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: Pop stardom is not a prescription for solitude. You know,

576
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: everything changes, it's all hysterical all the time.

577
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: Well, then when you say that your work has that

578
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: quality of solitude and contemplation, they're not just you know,

579
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: dittybop songs, you know, tisket a task it. They have

580
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: a contemplative dimension to them, all of them. Really.

581
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: Well, this is why the Beatles stop touring, you know,

582
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: because they couldn't think anymore. You know, everything was getting

583
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: too frantic, and they'd done a very good job of

584
00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 2: keeping Beatlemania, you know, under control. But the touring, which

585
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 2: just was too much, and I kept touring, I kept

586
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 2: doing everything, but I have a I don't know, maybe

587
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 2: it was my father or my parents or something away.

588
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: My father was a very solid person mentally. He really

589
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: knew what was right and what was wrong, and I

590
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: knew what was right and what was wrong. And so

591
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: I was still seeking what I had started to go after,

592
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: even though I had money and I had fame, and

593
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: that wasn't what I had gone after. What I was

594
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 2: going after was beautiful melodies and beautiful ideas and diversity.

595
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: And so the Holmost brother album, the Primetime album, the

596
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Don McClain album, these albums that were not American Pie,

597
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: but they were all all have that and many others

598
00:36:58,840 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: that I've made.

599
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: You know, many don't know this story, and I have

600
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: to confess I didn't either until I came across it.

601
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: You also inspired one of the best known songs in

602
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: popular music without writing a single note of it. Laurie

603
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: Lieberman saw You performing empty Chairs at the Troubadour in

604
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and on a napkin she writes a poem.

605
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: That poem becomes killing me softly with his song of Course, ROBERTA.

606
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: Flak's number one song and so many others that's been

607
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: heard by billions of people. Don what of your performance

608
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: do you think inspired that? And did she ever tell you?

609
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 2: No? I found out later because she went on television

610
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: after she put the song out on her Capitol Record album,

611
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: and then she went on I think MERV Griffin or

612
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: Mike Douglas and one of those, and told the story

613
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: of how it was written. And somebody told me that

614
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: they'd seen her, and I said, wow, that's you know,

615
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 2: because I was stuck playing the Troubadour. I signed a contract,

616
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: which I shouldn't have and I should have been doing

617
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: other things, but I cost me so much money to

618
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: get out of it that I would go and play

619
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: there for a week. And that's when she saw me.

620
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: But I believe she said she really didn't care about

621
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: going that much, but her friend said you really should go,

622
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: so she did. And she used to write down all

623
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: her own lyrics, you know, in this little notepad. And

624
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: there's a long story to this song. You can look

625
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: it up on Wikipedia and you can see what happened.

626
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: But she wasn't treated very well, and so later on

627
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: they write one of the writers of the song accused

628
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: her and me of inserting ourselves somehow in this story,

629
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 2: when in fact, it was the very songwriters that encouraged

630
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 2: her to tell the story of exactly how was written,

631
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: and I had the documentation for that. There was a

632
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: news article and so on. So they stopped, they stopped

633
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 2: saying that.

634
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, but you know, that's that's

635
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: the artist, gene, that's the inspiration waving through you and

636
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: weaving through your music, touching other artists. I mean, so

637
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: it's not just contained to what you're creating in the studio.

638
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: It's reaching far beyond. I mean, it's almost as spiritual.

639
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you one. I'll tell you one more

640
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: thing that's even more, almost more interesting than that. A

641
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: little killing Me Softly is a very interesting story. The

642
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: rapper Drake has a song an album called do It Wrong,

643
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: and it's sold ten million copies, and do it Wrong

644
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: uses two of my songs, when Love Begins and when

645
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: a Good Thing Goes Bad, those two songs. He took

646
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: most of the lyrics for do It Wrong. And I

647
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: end up that thing is sold ten million and I

648
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: own sixty percent of it. Incredible, So there are things

649
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: that nobody knows about that. People we know where they Yeah,

650
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: well I want you to know because I want you

651
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: to know that that Tupac and Drake and others appreciate

652
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: more than just other rappers, you know.

653
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's what I mean. Your your legacy reaches

654
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: beyond genre and through multiple generations. And look, I've got

655
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: like twenty of your studio albums. You've covered everybody from

656
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: Buddy Holly to Roy Orbison to Marty Robbins. You refuse

657
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: to let American pie define the shape of your art

658
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: on and when you look at the full body of work,

659
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 1: is there a song or an album that you wish

660
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: more people knew?

661
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: Well, the two albums I made in Nashville, Chain Lightning

662
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: and Believers have some very very nice things on them.

663
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: And there's a version of and they had the greatest

664
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: sidemen in history on those records that had Bob Moore

665
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: on bass, They had Pete Drake on steel guitar, Jimmy Capps,

666
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: Ray Eddington on acoustic guitar. This was the a team

667
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: that made hundreds of number one records out of now.

668
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: There are unbelievable people, Jordanaires who were on there. They

669
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: became very good friends with me. And there's a beautiful

670
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: version of the song love Letters Straight from Your Heart,

671
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 2: which is on the Believers album. And I think anybody,

672
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: you know, if they were halfway decent singer, would have

673
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: had a great record with this song because of the

674
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: gorgeous playing and the engineering on that record. And I

675
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: did a good, good job, and the song is really

676
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: wonderful love Letters on the Believers album. I still love

677
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: that track very much.

678
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: Don You mentioned earlier that they wanted more hits from you,

679
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: and you didn't want to do that. You wanted to

680
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: fallow of the moment and what you wanted to express

681
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: in that moment. Why not recreate the American Pie formula?

682
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: Why was that?

683
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: Because that's a cloying and desperate and I'm neither. I

684
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: don't do things like that. This is it right here,

685
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: This is the song, full stop. That's it, and you

686
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: can see it hasn't lost its ability to be I

687
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 2: think if you start to diminish these things with desperate

688
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: attempts at commercials, I don't care about commercial success because

689
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: American Pie was already so over the top commercial, then

690
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 2: why should need more of the same thing?

691
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: You know, has that done that you know, American Pie

692
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: anticipated so much disillusionment that was coming, and you chronicled

693
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: you lived through so much down from the Vietnam to

694
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: COVID to the assassinations we talked about earlier to AI.

695
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: Looking at America right now in twenty twenty six, if

696
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: you were writing American Pie today, what would it concern?

697
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: What would it be about? What images would you capture?

698
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you're actually real?

699
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Are you I am real?

700
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: Are you sure? I hope everything that's on any screen now,

701
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: I know is suspect.

702
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: I know, don you know?

703
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: You know, God knows where that's going to lead and

704
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: what is going we have really built. We're inside some

705
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: sort of a camera. Now we're not using our own

706
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 2: brains and eyes and that camera. We're inside a camera

707
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: of some sort. And you know, they've they've always been

708
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: wanting it. With these you know, computers that have things

709
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: plugged down to your eyeballs and all this stuff. People

710
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: are so anxious to escape the natural world. I don't

711
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: really think the human and I'm going to say this,

712
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: and I'm probably you know people what you're talking about,

713
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 2: you know, but I really don't think that people are

714
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: indigenous to the planet. Everything we do is wrong for animals,

715
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: and animals would be the world would be just very

716
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: fine without the human race, you know it with all

717
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: that we did does not matter to In fact, what

718
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: it does is hurt everything and pollute everything because of

719
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: this need that we have to be to find this

720
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 2: other world that we're seeking. And I believe that's partly

721
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: why people are so anxious to go to the Moon

722
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: and Mars and all that. And you know, guys like

723
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 2: Elon musk It wants to go to Mars. I want

724
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 2: him to go to Mars. I want all the people

725
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: that want to go to Mars to go to Mars immediately.

726
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: Without but without humanity dom, we wouldn't have your beautiful music,

727
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have the legacy.

728
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that in general,

729
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: without meaning to so many good people, loving, caring people

730
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 2: that don't realize that, you know that we condemn sort

731
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: of the natural world to death simply by our way

732
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: of life. And it's a shame because but again, I

733
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: think this is why people want to go into a

734
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: scape space and find a new planet, you know, means

735
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: of escape. As Graham Grain News to write, Yes, that's right.

736
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: The music industry today streaming is AI generated music algorithm

737
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: telling people what to like. It's almost unrecognizable from the

738
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: industry you entered. What's been lost? And is there anything

739
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: about today's landscape that actually gives you hope? Will the

740
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 1: music die with AI?

741
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not the guy to come to for hope.

742
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: That's an opener lot don really, but I do.

743
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: I do have faith in people. They'll come up with things.

744
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: But here's the thing that's interesting any new technology. If

745
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: you look at any technology, it goes along slowly and

746
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: then there's an inflection point where it bends and it

747
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: takes off. Like, for example, with flight, when the Right

748
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: Brothers had flight and they had those little planes in

749
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: the air and boom, and then World War One we

750
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: went through that there was not much flying around and

751
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: then you know, in World War Two it became a

752
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: flying thing. And now we have this amazing airline system

753
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 2: where we just get get on and go anywhere. Well,

754
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: so AI is still in this low, little Right Brothers stage.

755
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: What's going to happen when it takes that bend and

756
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: it takes off. It hasn't even gotten there yet. Yeah, Yeah,

757
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: that's the scary part.

758
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: Don You're eighty years old and you're still on tour.

759
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: Why still go out there and perform? Haven't you already

760
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: proven yourself?

761
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 2: My goodness, I'm interested in proving myself at all. I'm

762
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm satisfied with what I did with my life. And

763
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: I could sit back and look at you know, all

764
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: kinds of things and say, oh, you did it. I

765
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. I want to give something

766
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: to people, you know, I want to give something to people.

767
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: I want I want to have moments where I express

768
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: my ideas or sing a song that some little boy

769
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: or girl never heard before and thinks beautiful, and they

770
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: want to go home and maybe write a song like

771
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: that or or they like that idea or whatever. That's

772
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: what I want to do, and that's what I've always

773
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: wanted to do with my life. You know. I never

774
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: had to be a stadium guy where I was always

775
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: playing these great places and making you know, a million

776
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: dollars a night. I wouldn't I wouldn't mind doing that,

777
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: of course, because I like money, but I like I

778
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: do all levels of things. I play all kinds of places,

779
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: and I'm a grassroots guy. Really, if you will more

780
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 2: so where you know, I can get my ideas across

781
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 2: and do an hour and a half or an hour

782
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: and forty five minutes really when we sing, and a

783
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: lot of different songs, and I'll never know what I'll say,

784
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: but the audience seems to like it. And as I say,

785
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: there's always that little boy or girl in there who

786
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: might want to take up the guitar, you know.

787
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: And I subject all of my guests onto something I

788
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: call the Royal Grande questionnaire. These are rapid fire and

789
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: rapid answers. Okay, I might not do so well, Oh

790
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna love it. For a mind like yours, I

791
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: have no doubt. Others I'm concerned about, not you. What's

792
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: the best advice you've ever received.

793
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: The best advice I ever received was from my father.

794
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: Don't go into debt.

795
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: That's a good one. What's a fact about you that

796
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: nobody knows?

797
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,439
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to tell you that, but it just does.

798
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: I am a I am a western, a film expert.

799
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: Really, like like cowboy movies.

800
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: Western, Yeah, Cowboy movies?

801
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 1: Wow? Which one? John Wayne the class?

802
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, early early westerns, you know, from

803
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties, forties, the Silent Era. Oh wow, Tom

804
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: Mix Jones, Ken Mahner, Gibson, the real guys.

805
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: Well, what do you know that others perhaps don't?

806
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: What do I know that others don't? Well, that would

807
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: require me to know what other people know, which I

808
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: don't know. Ye see, So that's you.

809
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: See, I knew, I knew that's the answer I'd get

810
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: from Don McClain with that. Mine, You're too smart for

811
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: these questions.

812
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: Even so, I can't answer.

813
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: What's your greatest fear? Don?

814
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: Do you have one my greatest fear? Yeah, well, of

815
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: course getting incapacitated. You know, I've been so fortunate. God

816
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: has been so good to me throughout my life, allowing

817
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: me to have I want ful physique that works, you know,

818
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 2: and allows me to do all the things I've done.

819
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 2: I've done thousands and thousands and thousands of one night

820
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 2: ers all over the world since nineteen sixty eight. I

821
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 2: have never stopped, and I've been given so much, and

822
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: I have to prepare myself because, like I say, you know,

823
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: they they say the Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.

824
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: I say, the Lord Indian giveth and the Lord taketh away.

825
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: What's your greatest regret, Don, do you have one?

826
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: My greatest regret is my temper. Oh yeah, when I

827
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: was young, I had an absolutely terrible temper because it

828
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: was me against the world and I wanted things to

829
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: be a certain way and I would only deal with

830
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 2: people so much until I blew my stack and I

831
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: had to get it straightened out, you know. And I

832
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: think I probably hurt a lot of people without meaning

833
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: to because I was only thinking about myself. So that's

834
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: that's a regret I have.

835
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, what happens when this is over? Don?

836
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: I hope I don't ever have to hear American Pie again.

837
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: But it might have been a bad boy. I might

838
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: be on a loop, and that's purgatory.

839
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, not to leave you with purgatory,

840
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: but Don McClain, I know, I know how difficult it

841
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: must be. I often I saw Frank Sinatra like thirty

842
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: times in concert, and every time he sang My Way,

843
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: I thought, how do you summon the excitement to sing

844
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: a song that you know so well? And and I

845
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: know the audience loves it, But it's got to be

846
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: a cross for the performer. Now you feel that when

847
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: you sing it?

848
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: Really isn't it? Isn't really if it's a good song,

849
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 2: and that's a wonderful American Pie is a wonderful song,

850
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: and everything leads to this song. So it's it's a

851
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: moment that happens that I look forward to. No, I

852
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: don't have one of those songs. The problem is, I

853
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 2: think there's two problems. One is, if you have a

854
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 2: song that is really not very good that everybody likes

855
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: that you have to sing, and then you do it

856
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: because you know they that's why you're getting the job right.

857
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 2: But the other thing is people will get known for

858
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: something that they don't own. For example, Peter Falk, you know,

859
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: was Colombo, but he didn't own that property. And I've

860
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: recently I've seen Sylvester Stallone complaining about Irwin Winkler owning

861
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: Rocky and he wishes he had. You know, well, he

862
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: sold that away in order to get in. That's the

863
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 2: price of mission, you know. And so that's tough. I

864
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 2: own everything, really, all of the I own all my songs,

865
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: I own all my records, I own everything. So nothing

866
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: I own trademarks, whatever, Nothing happens without my approval and

867
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 2: without my consent. So all I'm doing is letting people

868
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: out there, hear songs that will lead them to other

869
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: songs whatever. But in no case am my singing somebody

870
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: else's song, you know that I might be famous for.

871
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: So that's the case with my way. Sinatra did not

872
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 2: own my way. Somebody else did. Yeah, So it wasn't

873
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: a songwriter, but Sinatra and Elvis Presley and had a

874
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 2: wonderful I saw many Sinatra many times and it was

875
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 2: a really great experience always. But the arrangements were so amazing.

876
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: But the thing about it is anything those guys sang,

877
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: they owned, you know, they identify. They were so talented

878
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: that Sinatra had just about digress for a moment. Sinatra

879
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: had probably fifty hits in the Big Band. Here are

880
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 2: number ones with the Dorsey Band, yeah yeah, and then

881
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 2: on his own when he went on his own with

882
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: Axle Store at All in Columbia records, another huge number

883
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: of hits. If you look at the you know, the

884
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: books of hits, it's just pages of pages. You know.

885
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: He didn't need to sing a lot of those songs

886
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: every night. He could have sung ten different number ones

887
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 2: every night and not repeated himself for six months. Unbelievable.

888
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: What a career like yours genius. You're a genius.

889
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: Well, so he didn't write those songs. You did, though,

890
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: Don So, and I'm glad you didn't. I'm so delighted

891
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: about you. You spent some time with us today.

892
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I really enjoyed your questions. You're

893
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 2: quite knowledgeable, and I appreciate your questions very much.

894
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's an honor. I can't wait to see you

895
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: on the road and we'll do it again soon.

896
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: Okay, Grey, Well, I like talking to you. Can you

897
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 2: tell you that I you really do to see you.

898
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the whole. I loved when Don said he

899
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: missed contemplation and that became the driver, the feeder of

900
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: his music and work. And there was something else he said,

901
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: I've got to get mention this. He wanted to do

902
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: music on his own terms. That's so important to maintain

903
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 1: that vision of who you are and what you're offering

904
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: to the world, no matter what it is. For all things,

905
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 1: Don McClain, including tour dates, tickets, visit Don McClain dot com.

906
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back to Arroyo Grande soon. Why

907
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: settle for a dry, constricted life when if you fill

908
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: it with wisdom and knowledge. It can flow into a

909
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 1: broad thriving Arroyo Grande. I'm Rayven Arroyo. Make sure you

910
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: subscribe like this episode. Thank you for diving in. We'll

911
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: see you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership

912
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: with DP Studios and iHeart Podcasts, and is available on

913
00:55:53,440 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts.

914
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: Spoken park Stands, Explodes and Stock Contents Stoker parts