WEBVTT - Ep. 229: The Atomic Oryx 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast, you 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.560 can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.160 the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.440 Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play Store, nor 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:37.159 where you stand with on x Okay, Carl Carl Malcolm 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.200 set the scene for us here. What's going on? Well, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:47.400 we are here at RAX Camp. We're in south central 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.000 New Mexico, at a camping spot that I have come 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.640 to be uh very familiar with and fond of over 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.160 a number of years now. I've probably camping in and 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.720 around this particular spot for close to a decade of 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.840 hunting a variety of species, and over the course of 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.200 those hunts, I have encountered rix in this general area 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:13.360 on a number of occasions. So we're here just just 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.600 outside the periphery of the White Sands Missile Range in 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.600 south central New Mexico, which is the place you want 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.600 to be if you're looking for the wily and elusive 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.160 African oracs. I think that you might have even expressed 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.959 at one point here that you intimated that you may 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.920 have even seen one very near where we're at right now. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.119 If you were to take a straight line distance from 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.520 where our keysters are on these seats right now, I 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.959 have seen an orix no more than three yards sitting 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:52.120 right now, right shot range. Uh, tom Bodett's here. Mike 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.520 rules on the show before and people wrote in the 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.840 guy wrote, Mike saw a comment where he said, um Man, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.720 that guy sounds just like tom Bodett. Hit it hit 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.840 at my Yeah, like I said, dude, sounds just like 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.520 Tombo Deett, So do a Tambo Deett line. This is 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.040 Tombo Deett from Hotel six, and we'll leave the line 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.680 on for you. That's pretty good man job. I really 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.040 respect Tombo Debt, so I really took that as a compliment. Yeah, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.720 Mike is actually a Tombo Deett fan. I think that'd 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.400 be fair. Yeah, he's got a great backstory Homer, Alaska, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.679 and it's tied in with the singer Jewel. What was 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:33.160 her tune? She had like one super famous tune, didn't she. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.800 She had a bunch of good ones. And you're a 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:36.960 Michigan guy. She she did some of her training at 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.520 that Interlocking Fine Arts camp. Well, and that's been there. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.919 I saw Gordon Lightfoot there first time I saw Gordon Lightfoot, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.600 but the the Interlocking camp as part of the whole 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.320 story about Tombo Dett and jewel and the connection. Yeah, Homer, 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:57.000 Alaska is the hometown of well Tombo that's not from Homer, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.000 I don't think, but but he moved up there, right, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.440 And then they had a fundraiser to send this jewel 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.880 individual to Interlock to Interlock, and tom Boudette donated money 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.959 toward it. Correct. I got one jewel thing, one jewel 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.760 line that's rolling around in my head. I'm pretty sure 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.240 it's that who Will Save Your Soul? That that was 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.280 her big hit. Yeah, that's the I can't remember the 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.320 name of the song, but hearing her little her voice 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.200 kind of cracking a little bit as she sings that, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.359 I mean I I totally had a jewel crush going 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.560 on for sure. Yeah. She had, you know, she had 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.080 that like imperfection of that one crooked tooth on the 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.600 on her top top shelf. I don't remember she had 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.760 on her trademark. Yeah, it was like kind of like 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.160 Cindy Crawford. She had that birthmark, right, and my wife's 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.200 got one snaggle tooth. So I found that. I found 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.240 that the fact that she wasn't just like this perfectly polished. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.400 Don't be staring at my wife. I'm not talking about 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.400 you wife, talking about Gel. Start talking about my wife 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.240 Snaggle too. No, I'm talking about Jewel. But I like 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:52.920 the fact that, you know, she's like in the in 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.080 the spotlight of Hollywood and she's just out there. I mean, 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.880 she's a beautiful woman, of course, and very talented, and 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:00.920 I always found it appealing thing that she had this 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.680 imperfection that she was not sufficiently vain to want to 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.680 pursue like a correction. You know. I saw that as 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.320 just like a level of authenticity that want to be 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.119 very attractive. She's a big Jewel fan. Uh yeah, for sure, man, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.960 I thought, yeah, I love the music. I loved her voice. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.120 I thought she was just a cool person in the 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.120 Alaska thing too. You know, I've never been to Alaska 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:21.599 at that point in my life, but I was just like, man, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.760 Shania Twain too, the same kind of thing, Like this 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.280 woman from the rugged North who's just beautiful and has 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.680 an incredible voice and so talented. And ye, Shni is 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:36.200 out of Alaska too. Oh no, no, she's she's Canadian. Oh, Canadian, okay, 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.920 but like that rugged northern thing. It's not even American. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:44.080 That's all right? Really. Yeah, my buddy Ronnie was all 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.359 excited because Shania Twain has the same kind of dog 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.719 he as, Okay, an Italian broco. I wonder if she 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:57.920 ut as pretentious people would say, a Braco Italiano. Uh, Jeremy, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.240 can you say where you Are you allowed to say 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.240 where you work? Yeah? Absolutely. I work for the National 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.680 Wildlife Federation on the Regional Connectivity Coordinator because it's not 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:09.839 like the government where you gotta y'all sly about where 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.640 you work at all. You don't want to get in trouble. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.920 I'm happy, I'm happy talking about it. Yeah, that's that's right. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:22.640 I am a conservation professional, not currently representing any organization 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:29.000 on this podcast. Yeah, it's Jeremy Romeo correct um. And 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.840 you're the New Mexico. Well, I work at a New Mexico. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.400 But I represent, you know, a regional level. I worked 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.839 for the National Wildlife Federation out of the Rocky Mountain 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.240 Regional Center, so we have quite a few states that 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.799 I that I work to promote and protect Wildlife Corridor 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.480 as the Connectivity, which is a hot thing in conservation 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.640 right now. Yeah, absolutely. You know, as as we know, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.200 wildlife move across multiple jurisdictions, and so when you're gonna 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.120 sit down and really protect and prioritize these efforts, you 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.440 really need to bring a robust group of stakeholders to 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.520 the to the table. And that's something that's that's a 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.880 pretty hot topic and we've been pretty successful in doing 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:08.000 here in the landscape. And then um seth, yep, the 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.680 flip flop no longer flesher. Who's fallen incredibly behind. Yeah, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.680 it's I blame on COVID. Yeah, when you flesh at 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.719 the office and COVID comes, beaver fleshing grinds to a halt, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.280 which I could do in my garage. But it's just 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.480 it's fun or yeah, I like when people are complaining 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.400 about it in the office. You know. I recently played 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.640 teen Wolf for my kids, Like when we have movie night, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.880 I tend to when we have movie night, I want 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.800 to like they want to pick by was like wild pick. 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:46.760 So I picked movies that I remember from being like 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:51.080 in high school, even though they're in pre an element 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.400 pre elementary and elementary. But somehow I don't line it 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.360 up right. So I'll be like, I remember a movie 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.320 when I was young, but it has some scenes in 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.120 the the Uh, you know, he's got some scenes in it. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.720 And while watching Teen Wolf, this is the original Team Wolf, 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.840 Michael J. Fox, do you know about this movie? I don't. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.239 I don't think it's I don't think it's all the original. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.640 Do you know the premise? It's a duty. He's like, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.560 he turns into a wearwolf and then he gets like 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.080 people like him. He's a dork, but then he's a 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:28.080 werewolf and uh, he's really going to basketball. There's a 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.160 girl he really there's a girl that like the neighborhood 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.160 girl likes him, but he don't like her. There's a 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.760 girl he really likes, but she's too good for him. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.800 He turns into a werewolf, gets super good at basketball, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.520 the mean girl likes him, then he like self discovers 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.200 right in the end, he winds up with the neighborhood girl. Um. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.120 Watching it, I was thinking that we could do that 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.680 same movie called The Flip Flop Flusher, where it's like, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.160 you're just a normal dude, then you become the flip 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.320 flop Flasher and I think you're rul of ship, right, yea, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.800 because there's a big part of Team Wolf where Michael J. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.680 Fox he can win all the games, he doesn't even 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.040 need his teammates, but his teammates start getting bummed out. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.360 So then in the end they play the championship and 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.680 he plays it and he doesn't turn into the werewolf 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.840 to win the championship, do it through regular old teamwork. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.360 So what would I win? Just win flushing contest or 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.600 to just half the top. He'd come in just as 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.240 you and not the flip up lasher. It's like you'd 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.240 be like, I'm flashing this one as steth bro Yeah yeah, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.880 um uh, explain White Sand missile Range in greater do 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:38.760 you two who wants to take that one? We could 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.560 probably tag team in a little bit. I mean we've 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.760 been doing a little bit of homework. Um, because it's 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.320 a it's an interesting story, man, it is an interesting story. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:54.280 So the wait stands Missile range is this massive chunk 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.600 of country about in the in the neighborhood of two 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.079 million acres hundred thirty miles by what do we figure 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:08.600 out northwest or north south about and east and west 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.080 was roughly forty I think, Yeah, So it's it's a 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.000 long ass time to even drive around part of it. Yeah, 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.199 especially if you're like a Midwestern or by birth and 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:19.959 you get out here and just see like how vast 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.520 the expanses. And that's kind of the point. So when 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.560 the Department of Defense was trying to figure out places 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.520 to do things like test missiles, detonate the first nuclear bomb, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.600 atomic atomic bomb, thanks, they were looking for places where 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:34.720 there weren't a lot of I can't tell you the 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.480 difference between those two things. I think the same thing, 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.920 but I'm not. I don't think that they are man 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.120 isn't like a fish and fusion kind of thing. Yeah, me, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.360 I'm sure there will be some physicists who ways in 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.320 on this and we can we can see what they 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.960 have to say. Remember, in tenth grade, I was in 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.719 science class. I don't remember what great I was in. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.000 I remember losing a lot of faith in my teacher 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.440 because I was like, is it possible that you could 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.440 hit you could be splitting firewood and hit it just right, 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.480 that you split an atom and split an atom and 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.920 causing atomic explosion and looking back on it, they were 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.640 not able to answer that question. I think it's a 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.200 thoughtful question, and now understand that you no matter how 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.640 much fire would you split, you're not gonna split at 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.440 will not split an atom. Yeah, I don't know. Man 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.640 Like if you were to say, you know, drop a 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.720 nuclear bomb, and drop an atomic bomb, in my mind different, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.640 it's different. So that's something I'll take a face value. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.200 So they're looking for a place where they have enough 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.520 open country to be able to do some of this 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.160 stuff that would be real dangerous if you have a 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:42.560 bunch of people in proximity. And so when it comes 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.760 to you know the history of things like testing atomic bombs, 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.040 a lot of that were happened in places like the 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.200 Arizon Strip, places like the Trinity Site, which is not 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.280 terribly far from where we are right now, the Trinity 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.280 Site being the place where they detonated the first of 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.480 those bombs. And so the White Sands Missile Range is 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:05.440 an area where they're they're all manners of testing of missiles, aircraft, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.640 um and all kinds of other stuff that the general public, 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.640 including myself, probably has no idea about. But it's a 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.120 vast chunk of d D country. And it's also the 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.480 site of the original introduction of the African orcs, which 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.920 is the species we've been hunting. Let's back up one step, 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:24.360 because I just wanted to tell people, if you want 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.920 to read it, really fascinating story about American history and warfare, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.000 the story of the Manhattan Project leading up to the 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:44.160 Trinity Site test and the level of secrecy in manipulation 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:50.240 that had to go into doing a surface test of 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.720 an atomic weapon while having no one know that you 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:01.080 just did that. Even people they were in the military 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.440 in the area at the time thought. I think that 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:09.160 they thought it was a munitions train exploded or something 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.000 like that. They had some cover story like they touched 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.720 off and atomic bomb, like the same bomb they used 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.240 to destroy what it was like a little boy and 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.800 big fat boy. Anyways, the same bomb they used to 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:25.040 destroy Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They touched off a version of 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.160 it in New Mexico and kept and it remained a 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.520 secret that they had the weapon. Yep. Yeah, And that 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.559 spot it was a different place back then. It was 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.800 a different a different time for sure, and that that 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:40.640 spot where that occurred. So when I started with the 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.000 Forest Service, I was down on the Lincoln National Forest 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.959 where the headquarters is based in Alama Gordo, New Mexico, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.600 and the regional offices up in Albuquerque, so would oftentimes 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.560 be traveling between Alama Gordo and Albuquerque, and there's a 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.000 stretch of highway called Highway three eight that goes along 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.960 the north side of the White Sands Missile Range and 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.800 there's very little, um human development along that highway. It's 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.640 pretty open country. So a long Highway three the route 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.600 that I would take between Alama Gordo and Albuquerque. Um, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.360 you go along the north side of the White Sands 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:16.240 Missile Range, and among the very few human developments along 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.720 that stretch of highway is a rock shop. And the 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.320 thing that the rock shop advertises on the side of 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:27.440 the road most prominently is that they have trinitite available 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:33.240 for sale. And trinitite is this um, mildly radioactive glass 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.880 that was created by the detonation of that first bomb test. 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.200 So you can go out there and there's like fragments 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.680 of this class at the bomb site. And I've I've 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.920 never yet had the opportunity to do the tour, but 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.800 I know a couple of times a year, UM, the 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.560 White Sands Missile Range offers public tours to go back 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.679 and actually visit the Trinity site. Yeah, especially on the 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.440 anniversary I believe, is that right? And I've I've heard 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.120 that that you know, the date's coming up and it 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.080 hasn't lined up to where could come down and make 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.920 it happen. And I feel like I've missed missed an 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.920 opportunity a few times to do that. But um, that 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.960 site is, you know, as the crow flies, not terribly 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.000 far from some of the spots we've been poking around 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:16.120 looking for ORCX. Do you understand why? What's the story 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:17.560 of how it came to be that they decided to 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.000 cut some oracs loose in the White Sands missile range. 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.920 So the history is that the state of New Mexico 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.120 back in the late sixties and early seventies, in an 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.000 effort to try to provide more big game hunting opportunity, 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.800 was trying to identify portions of the state that could 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:42.320 potentially support other big game hunting opportunities. But we're essentially 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.960 unfilled um niches from a big game hunting perspectives, too 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.600 severe the conditions. Yeah, and then and then essentially marry 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.040 up the kind of ecological niche that was perceived to 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.200 be available with a species that had the ability potentially 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.160 to thrive in that portion of the landscape. So there's 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.200 this kind of matchmaking going on and a lot of 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.160 energy around the idea of trying to bring in exotic 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.240 species to exist in portions of the state. And there's 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.200 a handful of examples, and uh, the orcx being one 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:19.160 that they successfully introduced, like taking an African antelope suited 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:24.880 to deserts yep and and then they took the Barbary sheep. Ye. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.640 The Barbary was another which is in the North Africa right, 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.240 a mountain animal from North Africa. And then there were 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.080 two different ibex species, the Persian and the Siberian that 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.720 they brought in. All these are all like drought tolerant species, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.760 and they looked at some and decided against it as well. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.920 I think they looked at the kudu and the coudoo 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.760 was having some issues contracting diseases from cattle, so the 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.680 kudo didn't work. And with the species that they did 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.280 want to release, what I've read is that there's a 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:02.400 federal law that prohibits the importation and release of exotic wildlife, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.760 and the way that the state worked around that was 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.200 to bring them in and establish experimental populations and propagate 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.160 offspring and captivity and then they were able to release 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.640 the offspring of those imported orax for example. And there's 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.680 a spot kind of on the west side of the 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.000 missile range um Red Rock, where they were doing the 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:29.080 initial captive breeding propagation of those first ninety or so 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.360 orcs that they brought out and released on the missile range. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.320 That's somewhere they cut loose was it was ish and 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.440 you know, guys correct me if I'm wrong here, you know, 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.320 brushed up a little bit on this. So and it 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.280 wasn't all at once. They were like adding them in 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.560 kind of overtime supplementing the population, and then pretty quickly 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.360 they got to be self sustaining. And you know, ecologically, 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.000 one of the things that's cool about rix is that 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.800 you know, they're able to reproduce year round, so they're 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:00.400 very productive. You know, a cow will conceive, carry the pregnancy, 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.920 deliver the calf, raised the calf for some period of time, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.919 and then she'll cycle again. But they're not constrained by 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.840 seasonality the way a lot of the ungulates that we're 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.639 used to thinking about in North America are When did 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.240 they start? So they brought him in the sixties and seventies. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.880 They explode in numbers on this giant missile range which 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.200 was very limited hunting, and then at some point someone 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.560 must have gotten uneasy with what was going to happen 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.240 because it didn't just let them overrun the whole damn state. Yeah, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.200 the the history, I mean, initially the motivation for the 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.080 whole program was to provide hunting opportunity, and the fact 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.359 that they intentionally selected the White Sands missile range as 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.800 the release site, suggests to me that the intention was 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.280 to have some hunting opportunity on White Sands missile range. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.120 And whether or not that's the case, I mean, I'm 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.800 not super scoop them on all the details here, but 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.760 it's certainly the case that the original population became very 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.160 well established on White Sands missile Range and has provided 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.439 a lot of hunting opportunity over the decades since. And 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.640 to your point, the objective was to keep the population 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.120 primarily contained to the White Sands missile range. So that's 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.240 how we're here on what what in local vernacular, everybody 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.760 calls the off range orc son uh que. Back up 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.879 a moment to your use of the words skukum uh, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.440 what's your own what? How do you define the scukum. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.480 So I would think of scukum as being like, you 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.320 are totally on point on a given topic topic in Alaska, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.959 particularly Southeast Alaska, UM where I think that word might 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.399 come from. Maybe that would be interested in know the history, 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.520 but don't check that you check that out, seth, Why 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.280 are you sitting there while you're sitting there with a 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:49.639 real bad cell phone service? Um it means good. Scugum 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.560 is good. Okay. He'd be like, that's a scucum rig 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.640 for fishing. Someone's like, hey, should I try this? Yeah, 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.320 it's a scucum rig. Okay, good rig. I don't know 0:18:58.359 --> 0:18:59.800 what the hell it means. I was just curious. You 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.280 have always I've only ever heard I've only ever heard 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.560 in Southeast last they've only ever heard its mean good. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.720 So I took took note when you just use scuocum 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.119 to mean like a good understanding of Yeah, like I 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:10.840 think about it being like you're on point. So when 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.320 it comes to nuclear versus atomic bombs, fever not scookum. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:16.560 I'd want to learn a little bit more about that. 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.200 I looked that up. What'd you look up? Atomic versus 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:25.640 nuclear bombs? Different atomic bombs are nuclear weapons, but not 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:30.600 all nuclear weapons are atomic bombs. Hydrogen bombs are thermonuclear weapons, 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:35.040 which is a different category. Remember when Oakley Sunglasses used 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:40.760 to advertise as thermonuclear protection. No, you remember that? Yeah, 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.159 they dudes it liked Oakley's a lot, Like a certain 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.360 type of guy in high school liked Oakley's a lot 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.560 and would have Oakley stickers on his truck and whatnot. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.160 And one of the stickers you'd put on your truck 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:57.040 window would say Oakley Thermo Nuclear Protection, as though the 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:04.520 implication being that should whiskey whiskey three breakout, uh, and 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.800 you had your Oakleys on, you would not be blinded 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.120 and would be able to see yourself, um shortly thereafter 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:19.399 die of radiation radiation poison. And couldn't you argue that 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.440 the sun is like a form of thermonuclear Oh maybe 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.760 that's the oh one thing on the on the Oakley's. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.000 You know, they had those stalls in the mall where 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.359 you'd walk in and and they were like all the 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.480 rage and in the Grand the Grand Travers mall in 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.040 Northwest Northwest, Lower Peninsula, Michigan. I was like begging my 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.120 mom to get a pair of those sweet shades when 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.600 I was in late elementary school and maybe fifth grade, 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.160 and finally for my birthday, you know, she broke down. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.600 They were just ridiculously expensive for our family budget, and uh, 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.960 she broke down and bought me a pair. And I 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.280 thought they were so cool. I could not wait for 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.439 like recess. And it didn't matter if it was raining 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.800 out at recess. I don't want to have those sunglasses 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.440 onto like strung playground and shore. Everybody in my red 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.359 Oak least I could name off. I could name off 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:08.280 the dudes in high school who had elementary school, I 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.600 could name them off, and they they also had this. 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.160 They were the kids that got to have Nikes their 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.720 moms and buy him Nikes. They were the kids that 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.719 got to have individually bagged Doritos in their lunch. They 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:23.280 were the kids that got to have where they put 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.240 the cheese in one compartment and the crackers in the 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.000 art compartment. What do you call those things? They were 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.600 the kinds of kids that had like Levi, actual Levi jeans, 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:39.040 not tough skins and wranglers. They had Nike shoes, Dorito's, 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.840 like all kinds of store bought shipping their lunch bag, 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.560 and not like stuff their mom made you know what 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.000 about Starter jackets was I was gonna go start jackets 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.000 and the other one is not Nikes. But okay, I 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:53.920 want I want to back up to name them right now. 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.919 I don't want to give their last names. Nate stand Steve. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.000 I could name all these dudes last names. I remember 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.720 who still and they had Michael and they had those 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.320 Michael Jackson, Jackets, Kenny, Chris, Kenny, Chris and George or 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.080 three that come in my mind. But you know, the shades. Like. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:10.880 The reason it's notable to me is it was such 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.280 such a stretch because we had typically like not a 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.879 bunch of this store bought lunch ingredients, for example. But 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.400 the other thing besides Starter jackets, it wasn't the Nikes. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.800 It was the Adidas Sambas. Yeah, dude, the sambas. Where 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.920 I was I'm just saying, like sambas and starter jackets, 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.600 that was Those are the kids. Those the girl versions 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:37.400 of the guys I'm talking about had rebox. Okay, we 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.119 also had probably slightly slightly different like cultural subtleties to 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:42.960 our respect, even though we're saying state pause, I'm a 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:44.960 little bit of head of you. I'll tell you horrible 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:46.200 I'll tell you I want to get back to talking 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.440 about ORCS much of the next guy, I'll tell you 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.480 horrible story. So I was never allowed to have any 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.399 kind of nice stuff. I thought we were poor, but 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.040 it turns out my parents just weren't stupid. Like I 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.800 grew up, I grew up thinking out his poor even 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:04.080 though we're like absolutely not poor. You know, we had 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.119 like boats, My parents drove new cars, we had a 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.159 big nice house. By thought, as a young kid, I 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:13.920 thought we were poor because I couldn't have stupid ship. 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:16.479 But it was not because they couldn't get it. They 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.560 just were annoyed by it. Like we couldn't get we 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:20.760 wouldn't get There's no way we're gonna get inn Atari 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:24.400 machine like to play video games, Like there's no way 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:26.080 my parents were gonna buy one of those. There's no 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.480 way they were gonna buy like a nice television. There's 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.360 no way they're gonna buy Levi's and rebox and whatnot. 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:33.400 And I remember one time we went down to MC 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.840 Sporting Goods and they had a pair of mismatched Nikes 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:43.000 in a box for like no money. Because one shoe 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:45.760 the right one, I can right left one of them 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.359 had red smush marks and one of them had dark 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:56.880 burnt orange slush mark. And it was a subtle difference, 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.199 but there was a difference, and we could get him 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.919 for like twenty some MT sporting goods. So here was 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:04.159 my mom's finally like I really have a pair of 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.240 because I'll buy those ones for you. And I'm like, 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.520 no one will notice. No one noticed. I wasn't in 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:10.639 I was in fifth or sixth grade. I wasn't at 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:17.200 the schoolhouse. Five minutes someone noticed stand ate Steve. Yeah, 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:21.280 they picked up on it like flies on ship. They 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.160 were just on it, like they knew it, and they 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:27.359 were they let you know commercial you keep wearing them. 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.280 I remember, man, Probably not. I do remember there being 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.120 like a little bit of a plan where my mom 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:36.960 was gonna try to darken up that other stripe somehow. 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.439 It's horrible. Well, being a parent, do you find that 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:42.919 you have some of those same tendencies with your family? 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.760 Now it depends why they want what they want, But no, 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:52.680 I'll buy them like good outdoor stuff of two colored shoes. 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.000 You wouldn't. Oh, I do lots of just a mess 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:57.880 with them, though, like make them eat something they don't want. 0:24:57.880 --> 0:24:59.239 It just I just do Yeah, I just do mean 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.480 stuff to him, just so they're like, I tell them 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:03.439 someday when you're in college you're telling stories about how 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.000 mean your dad was. You'll be glad I did this 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:10.359 because you have a funny story. All right, So you're welcome. Kids. 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:18.800 Where were we? Scook them? Good? Scook them? Hold on, yeah, 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:21.399 scook them story about orcs am I doing a good 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:26.800 job of using this appropriately. Okay, you am strong, brave 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:30.120 or impressive? Does it give the etymology of the word? 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:35.480 You know what that means? Look up the etymology of etymology? Hm, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:43.119 what entomology? Word history? Study of words? Where where they 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:48.640 come from? From the etymology of the word. People say, 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.440 what's the etymology of flip flop flusher? I'd say, well, 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:56.800 he flushes in flip flops? Mid nineteen century? Chinook Jorgan 0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:04.760 oh Chinook? Yeah, Northwest Pacific northwest cool. It's a tribe 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:08.080 in the Pacific Northwest. But that's why the guy I 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:13.600 know it from is sim Shan, and they probably used 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:15.240 to take big canoes and fight each other. If I 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.199 had to guess the sim Shan and the Chinook. But 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:21.159 he's simp Shan. His his people must have picked it 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:26.240 up from the chinook High Simian people should start using 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.399 it more often. Scoop them you're good and strong on 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:32.880 a given topic. Okay, the scoopum story of the feel 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.360 semi scookum on the history of orcs. Do you wand 0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:37.040 it real quick for people just to ease this back 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:39.040 into the conversation about orcs, do you might really quick 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:42.400 laying out what one of these things looks like? Who 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.000 wants to do that? Mike, you haven't said Tombodet, will 0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:49.560 now explain, Oh man, what does it works look like? Uh? 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:53.960 Dig deep into your bi biology training. Well, they are 0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:59.359 in terms of size like a mature bull. Orcs is 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:03.479 roughly you the size of a cow elk. I would say, uh, 0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:09.320 they are probably slightly shorter in their body, but deeper 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:14.439 like when you look at one, they're there their chest 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:19.560 particularly like if you come up the leg, they are 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:22.800 very deep from the bottom of the chest to the 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.080 top of their back. They kind of look like a 0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:29.919 like a billboard, you know, standing there um. And they 0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:35.000 have really distinct markings, so we we say that they 0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:37.159 have like a clown face. They have a face that 0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:43.520 is is black, angelic white right with with striking white 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:47.520 alongside the black. Yeah, is their face mostly white or 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:49.200 mostly black? I'm trying to think of it now. It's 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:51.200 got more a little probably a little more white than black. 0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:57.440 But what is the butterfly? Is that same butterflies white? 0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:00.960 But it's like two triangles that kind of at the 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:02.879 middle of the face. Yeah, I just scunned one, but 0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:07.560 I can't remember. Makes its way up to its ears. 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:12.240 Really pretty. Their their bodies are tan, mostly tan in color. 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:15.840 Their bellies are white, but they have a black stripe 0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:20.640 that runs along their belly. Uh. And then as far 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.320 as headgear, they got big sweat socks on. Yeah. Oh yeah, 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:25.720 they have big white socks of black legs and then 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:29.800 big white like a big white band like a sock band. 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:32.000 Reminds me of the old baseball socks I used to 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:35.760 wear a little. Then they got some horns and then 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.680 the Yeah, the head gear is like a really striking 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:44.600 element of of them. Uh, long straight, it's like two swords, 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:49.920 sword like horns, and they're they're especially from a distance, 0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:52.880 I think that the horns will look jet black when 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.760 you get up to them. Once you've harvested one, I 0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:58.600 think they look almost a little bit more dull, but 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:00.840 maybe they're just a little dusty to once you know, 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.600 once that business is done, there's an age piece to 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:08.000 it too, with the darkness. Then, yeah, the juveniles will 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:12.200 have like a a relatively kind of dusty looking horns. 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:14.080 So the one, the one that you shot, is relatively 0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:16.840 young bull. We'll get into those those details a little 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:19.240 bit more. But when you look at the tips of 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.000 those horns, you can see where that initial sheath is 0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:24.120 starting to wear away. And if you get into one 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:26.800 that's that's an older animal, it'll have more of a 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:30.120 smooth and polished and darker kind of horn to it, 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.400 and a long horn. On orcs, like Jeremy, you kill 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:39.520 the orcs long and some of the longest horns or females. Yeah, 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:42.160 you know, the females tend to have, in my experience, 0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:47.160 some pretty long thin or horns, and you know, the 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:49.640 bulls tend to be a little shorter, hold a little 0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:52.560 bit more mass like yours did um and like like 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:54.600 Carl said, the older they get, they get a little 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:57.800 bit more polished. The female hour was you know, lucky 0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:00.760 enough to harvest, had some She was third eight inches long. 0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:03.040 She flared out right at twenty four not to put 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:06.200 numbers on it, but it was just a beautiful specimen. 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:08.480 She was polished all the way down and she even 0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:10.920 had a little bit of like ivory tips there at 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.239 the tip of her horns. Yeah. Yeah, real pretty and 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:18.280 a big whopper is mid forties. Well yeah, I mean 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:22.080 like if for bulls, if you shot a forty inch bull, 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.840 people would be like, that is you know, that is 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:29.480 the orcs of of a lifetime kind of like, you know, 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:36.040 that's the that's that's one eight white tail. I think 0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:40.840 that thirty to forties what I'm seeing is being the average. Yeah, 0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:43.040 and where were we in terms of the one you 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.920 got in terms of the story. I just wanted to 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:47.479 real quick fill people on what they look like. Well, 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.720 I think Mike's doing an awesome job of lining out 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:53.840 the appearance of the orcs. Um. One one piece that 0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:57.959 we haven't talked about those that paint brush tail. Oh, 0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:02.040 that's something that's something that always stands out and um, 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:04.320 especially when you're glass and for them, they've got this 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:07.800 tail that like the tip of the tail it looks 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:12.160 like it could almost drag on the ground, and it's 0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:16.600 got these maybe twelve inch or longer hairs that extend 0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:19.240 from probably halfway down the tail to the tail tip. 0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:22.120 The whole the whole length of the tail is probably 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:25.080 in the neighborhood of eighteen inches or so, and then 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:28.680 those hairs extend significantly farther beyond that, and it seems 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:30.200 like when they're on their feet, that tail is just 0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:33.240 constantly swooshing, so a lot of times in your glass, 0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:36.000 and especially once the heat of the day has picked 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:39.320 up and you're looking through that heat mirage, you know, 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:41.680 you're trying your your search images like that that kind 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:45.480 of cream colored body, and if you see that that 0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:49.800 flickering tail, that fly fly swatter tail kind of blacking 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.520 out a portion of the shape in the distance, that 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:55.120 can be one of the tell tale things that you're 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:58.520 looking at an oryx as opposed to a similarly colored cow. 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.600 And we have encountered a number of cattle on this 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:05.720 trip that have some striking resemblance to marks in various ways. 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:07.560 But but the tail is one of the things that 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:11.959 can definitely give them away from a long distance. If 0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:13.840 I could spin back to a couple of the numbers 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.800 some of the population just to throw that out. So 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:23.080 they said between nineteen seventy seven ninety three, as you mentioned, 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:26.640 car were released, they expected that to reach about six 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:31.680 hundred animals on Wismer and by two things White Sands 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:35.040 missile range, and by two thousand and one the population 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.680 had peaked to about between four and six thousand. And 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:42.720 now we're looking at it and they say currently the 0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:48.360 population is between three to four thousand. And the information 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:51.000 Jeremy's quoting is from a New Mexico Department of Game 0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:54.520 and Fish Wildlife. Note, So if somebody's really curious what 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.240 they look like, that would be a place to go 0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:00.000 and get a page or two of information about or 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.400 in New Mexico and see a picture of one. Does it? 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:04.360 Does it? Do? You guys know what year they started 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:08.000 allowing people to hunt for him? Well, they said they 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.040 already by the mides. The overabundance had prompted the game 0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:16.240 department in Wismer to start to create hunting opportunities. So 0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:18.840 what when we say that I'm down here hunting right 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:23.920 now hunt for orcs. I drew what's called an off 0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:26.960 range hunt. And Carl mentioned off range hunts a minute ago. 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:31.360 So ricks hunting like in the general vernacular of ricks hunting, 0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:35.880 if you say like I drew an ORCS tag. Uh. 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.600 People in the know will know that you're talking about 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:47.680 New Mexico. UM. They will say to you immediately off 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:53.080 range round range. On range is I don't want to 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:56.880 say it's cooler, but on range is much more difficult 0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:03.080 to draw correct correct And why is that? Well, it's 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:07.160 it's there is a whole bunch of them. Well, there's 0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:09.440 a whole bunch of them. And of course, you know 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:14.359 White Sands Missile Range is an active military installation and 0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:19.200 so there are a lot of things going on on 0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:23.080 that installation, and so any of the hunts that are 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:29.640 on the range require really close coordination between New Mexico 0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:33.920 game and fish and the missile range. And you know, 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:36.920 that level of complexity to kind of work hunts and 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:42.680 around missions UM, I think makes makes it really difficult 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:47.360 to hold lots and lots of hunts on the range. 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:51.040 So there are much you know, the hunting opportunities are 0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:53.600 far fewer on the range, and so there's more orcs 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.839 on the range because you know, there there's just not 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.719 as many tags, there as many hunting raortunities as what 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:05.640 you drew here off range. When you so if you 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:07.680 draw an on range or its tag, which means you 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:12.360 draw a tag to hunt on White Sands missile Range. Um, 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:14.440 you and everyone with you has to go through a 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:18.799 background check. Yeah, so my wife drew a once in 0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:24.160 a lifetime hunt. But now we're getting I gotta explain that. Okay, 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:25.560 now I'll do that. I'll do I think I can 0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:28.840 handle this one. There are a variety of hunts that 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:32.680 the cur on White Sands missile range. There are broken 0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:36.280 horn hunts, and you can apply for this. Anybody listening 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:40.319 to this show. I think you can go if they 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:42.600 can pass it back. Well, no, you need to. You 0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:44.759 don't need to pass the background check to apply, but 0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:48.160 if you get drawn, they can apply. I don't know 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:50.919 you can apply. Anyone could go on here and fill 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:53.360 out the thing and say I want to apply for 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:57.440 a White Sands an no range hunt. You can apply 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:00.200 for a broken horn hunt, which means you can only 0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:04.040 shooting orcs with one busted horn that is not once 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:07.160 in a lifetime. You can get it again later. You 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:11.120 can apply for a non a once in a lifetime 0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:14.279 ORCS hunt, which means you can pick any orcs you want. 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:19.799 Then when you draw that, you're done for your life. Yeah, 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:22.239 I've been over here shaking my head. I think all 0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:25.480 of that was correct. Now, can you go from getting 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:29.680 the once in a lifetime to a broken horn? So, 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:31.719 which which I think is one of the things if 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:35.480 you look at drawing odds for broken horns, it's not like, 0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:38.399 oh man, it's you know, it's really easy to draw 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:42.080 an on range broken horn hunt because everybody that's ever 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:48.120 drawn once in a lifetime range hunt then becomes more 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:52.480 likely to apply on the range for broken horn hunts. So, 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.560 and then there's also hunts, as I understand it now, 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:58.799 there are all manner of hunts that the military puts on. 0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.640 They put on a hunt, they have tags available to 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:08.200 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, they have tags available to people 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:12.840 that work there. There there may be I'd have to 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.480 look at the at the book there there may be 0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.600 an active duty veteran hunt, although that a special draw 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:23.360 for them. There are also rics on some other military 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:27.440 installations in New Mexico, like the McGregor Range, which is 0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:31.800 part of Fort Bless And so I get a little 0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:35.960 confused on the details sometimes regarding active duty hunts and 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:40.480 the returning Iraq and Afghanistan veteran hunts. But there there 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:45.120 there are a number of opportunities for military folks, and 0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:52.319 then there there are population management or hunts that you 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:56.960 have to have the clearance to go. You have to 0:37:57.000 --> 0:38:00.920 have security clearance to go on range, which generally means 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:04.319 that you are somebody who in some capacity works on 0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:08.320 the range and has already passed all of the security 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:11.279 So if you actively hold security clearance. There are sort 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:13.239 of like these emergency hunts where you can go out 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:15.839 and they use it to go out and get orcs 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:20.359 that are yeah stuff column necessarily emergency, but they're used 0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:24.239 as a population management tool. So when you apply and 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:27.040 you and you land. So you apply and you get 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:28.640 an on range hunt, which is not what we have. 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:33.680 You get an on range hunt, then you gotta submit 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:36.239 and go through security clearance. Yeah, and you and your 0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:39.200 hunting buddies, then you have a three day season. Well 0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:42.920 so yeah, I mean it's you do a number of 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:47.760 things through that application process. You know, some pre training 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.800 about being on the missile range where there's always a 0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:54.120 concern about unexploded ordinance. Yeah, they told you if you 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:57.480 didn't drop it, don't pick it up. My favorite quote 0:38:57.560 --> 0:38:59.600 from the training was the guy was like pretty much 0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:02.920 oils down to like, if you didn't drop that thing, 0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:06.640 I don't even think about picking of them. It could 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:12.359 blow you up. Um. But yeah, so you uh my 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:14.720 wife's hunt, so she drew a once in a lifetime 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:18.360 hunt on the range. Um. We show up at the 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:20.480 gate early in the morning. You know, they tell you 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:21.879 when to be there. You end up in a big 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:24.000 line of cars with all the other people. How many 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:26.000 tag holders are rolling in there on that day? I 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:29.759 think around fifty is my record. And they all got 0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:32.680 two buddies with them or whatever. Three probably it's like 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:36.480 maimum it is right. It is a maximum of the 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:44.360 hunter plus three guests, so it's basically never more than four. Um. 0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:47.239 All the guests have to do the background checked. Everybody 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.359 has to be checked, and they like, you know there's 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.239 this is all pre checked. Yeah, yeah, that's all ahead 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.360 of time. Then you show up at the gate. You know, 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.440 they may what an enormous amount of work for somebody, right, 0:39:57.440 --> 0:40:00.319 and you have to like you have to do things like, uh, 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:03.120 submit the serial number of the firearms that you're gonna take. 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:07.239 You know, you're you're not allowed to take additional firearms 0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:10.960 outside of those. You're limited to a two rifles, no photos, 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:14.919 no recording equipment. Right do they check your firearm one 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:18.680 you get on range. I do not recall that we 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:21.239 got checked, but I have certainly heard stories of people 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:24.720 getting checked. I know, I've heard stories of other folks 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:26.799 showing up like and having their cooler because they're down 0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:28.920 their camping or whatever, you know, and they have some 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:32.040 beer in the cooler. Well, that's against the range rules, 0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:34.840 so they won't let you on with that beer. You know, 0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:38.160 you gotta you gotta throw that away. So it's you know, 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:41.600 it's pretty rigorous right there at the gate, just getting on, 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:44.640 and they check everybody in and look at everybody's I 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:47.120 d s. And they do all that stuff. And then 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:54.600 you proceed to a little sort of hunt organization area 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:57.080 and everybody gets out of their truck and and then 0:40:57.120 --> 0:41:01.040 you stand there and listen to a briefing, so they 0:41:01.239 --> 0:41:04.080 really sort of repeat all the stuff that they've already 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.239 provided you written material on you know about I mean 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.719 a little bit about orcs and you know their anatomy 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:16.319 so that you're effective at at shooting them, which I 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.680 think will probably get into. But you know, also again 0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:24.040 about unexploded ordinance and being very careful and they review 0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.160 a hunt map with you, because there are places on 0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:32.760 the range that require that that either are closed because 0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:37.719 they are known to have unexploded ordinance, you know, and 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:40.440 a high density of it, and you can't go in 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:45.799 there because dangerous, or that there's some active you know, 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:52.840 military exercise or or operations experiments and aliens and stuff. 0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:58.040 I don't know about that testing alien aircraft something, but 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:00.560 you know. So so there's there's all a number of 0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:03.120 places even when you're on range. It's like if you 0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:07.000 if you are caught going in there, you will immediately 0:42:07.080 --> 0:42:10.919 be escorted off the range and probably lucky if that's 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:14.439 the only consequence that that comes of it. And even 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:18.120 when you leave, they look at your phone. I've you know, 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:20.919 I've I've heard that's another sort of thing that i've 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:26.920 i've heard has happened. Uh, it didn't happen to us. Um, 0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:29.440 like no one reviewed your your record and my you know, 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:32.840 my recollection. And again, if if you draw one of 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:35.759 these hunts, don't listen to this podcasts and not read 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:38.680 any of the information they send you. I'm good. I'm 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:46.160 I actually recall that they they now I believe, require 0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:48.719 you to have a cell phone so that if they 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.280 lose track of you or you know, some of the 0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:55.160 roads on the range are as rough as things that 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:58.359 we drove to this week. You know, if you get 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:03.480 stuck back there, you have a or chance of getting help. Um. 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:06.680 My recollection is they told us you can take a photo, 0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:10.240 you can take photos of the rics, but they don't 0:43:10.280 --> 0:43:13.359 want anything in the photos, Like they don't want big 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:17.200 panoramic skyline kind of stuff. You know. It's like if 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:19.520 you're standing there kind of looking down at the orcs, 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:23.560 you know, with with dirt, you know, juniverse, whatever it 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:28.960 is kind of the ground, that's okay, but you know, 0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:32.200 don't don't drive around and take photos of anything other 0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:36.640 than your rix. Don't take any video period, you know, 0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.839 and when you do take pictures of the rics, make 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:44.160 sure that that those photographs are, you know, just that 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:48.040 limited to that sort of small field of view. And 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:51.799 when you go through all this rigmarole, you drive out 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:53.880 of there and all of a sudden it's just or 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.799 standing everywhere. Uh. I don't know that I would say 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:00.520 that that was necessarily our experienced success strates are in 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:04.279 the nineties. It's it's interesting because of course, you so 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.840 one thing to come back too quick? Is you mentioned 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.799 three days? So my wife's hunt, that was what all 0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:15.839 that I just described was Friday morning and then we 0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:19.759 had I believe we had to be off range by 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:23.879 the end of shooting light on Sunday. So really I mean, 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.279 and really the briefing and stuff takes up most of 0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:29.320 that Friday morning, so it's really about two and a 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:31.479 half days of hunting that you get on that once 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:35.160 in a lifetime hunt. So there's some there's some pressure, 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:38.120 you know, I mean by the end of my wife 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:41.200 shot hers on Saturday afternoon, and by Saturday afternoon you're going, like, 0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:44.239 you know, we want to make something work out here, 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:47.880 because the once in a lifetime element doesn't have anything 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:49.800 to do with whether you actually harvest in the animal 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:52.120 or not. So did she get like a big giant toad. No, 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:54.680 she got one very similar to the to the one 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:59.239 you harvested this week. But as far as what it 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:01.799 was like kind of interesting because of course, now you've 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:07.000 got fifty hunter right at the hunt briefing area, and 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.200 there's a there can be a bit of a race 0:45:11.880 --> 0:45:15.879 two their trucks to kind of like get out there 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:20.239 and find, you know, the orics close to the road. 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:24.439 We we kind of opted out of that. We were 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.000 just kind of like, you know what, we'll mosey back 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:30.839 to our trucks. We'll we'll let this, you know, this 0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:34.680 rush of of folks clear out, and then we'll take 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:36.719 off to some areas that you know, we had gotten 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:38.600 advice from people to look at, and we'll leave the 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:41.839 light on for you, right. And so we got we 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:44.080 you know, we did get back there the first afternoon 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:47.400 and got up kind of on top of the you know, 0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:50.640 cooler in the bed of the truck and broke out 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:54.920 some glass and pretty quickly found some animals and and uh, 0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:59.640 we spent I've actually probably never spent that much time 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:04.279 within two hundred yards of a group of animals that 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:07.480 we wanted to harvest one of and and we never 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:11.239 got a shot because of what. Uh they were in 0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:14.840 a really wide open area and we made a good stock, 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:21.120 but the shooting conditions were such that the grass was 0:46:21.200 --> 0:46:25.040 tall enough we couldn't she couldn't lay down and shoot 0:46:25.080 --> 0:46:28.640 off of her pack, so we had to try to 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.640 get up just a little bit. But but I mean, 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:34.919 like there's really nothing between us and the Yorks other 0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:38.240 than you know, ten inch tall grass, and so trying 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.319 not to be obvious, but but getting high enough and 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:46.359 a solid enough rest to get her a shot. And 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:49.000 then kind of what would happen would would be there 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:53.000 were enough animals that one that we would want, you know, 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:58.040 would get out in the perfect spot, and by the 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:01.080 time we got set up and she got on that one, 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:03.400 another one would walk in front of it, or it 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:06.279 will walk back into the group. So it just it 0:47:06.360 --> 0:47:09.359 was one of those weird kind of situations where you're, 0:47:09.719 --> 0:47:11.680 you know, you're just like for two hours, you're like, 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:15.839 any second, this is going to all come together. This 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:19.879 is a comfortable range, you know, this is really sort 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:23.440 of confident shooting area for my wife, who's quite handy 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:28.600 with a rifle. But um, it just never happened. And 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:31.279 then we as it was getting dark, we tried to 0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:34.480 get a little bit more aggressive, and of course that 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:36.640 would which you know, I tried to get more aggressive 0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:39.760 and and get it to come together, and it didn't. 0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:52.920 They have a reputation for going down and getting up 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:57.120 and running off. Well, you know, Carl may actually be 0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:59.839 better to tackle the anatomy, but but they are. They 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:03.840 they have a very interesting anatomy that is substantially different 0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:10.120 from North American deer species. Yeah, I mean they do 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.279 that that deep chest that Mike was talking about. I 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:15.520 think it leaves you a lot of opportunity to place 0:48:15.600 --> 0:48:17.160 what you think is a good shot and have it 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:19.799 not end up being lethal. And they're also just a 0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:24.280 tough animal, you know, so that that build that they have. UM. 0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:26.680 The advice generally that that you hear when it comes 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:29.000 to shot placement on an oors is if you think about, 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:32.320 like on a white tail, for example, putting those cross 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:35.359 here sort of tight behind the shoulder. UM. You'd want 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:39.719 to be farther forward with that and maybe even a 0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:43.080 little bit lower UM. And then when you take that 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:46.479 first shot, if you're fortunate enough to put the animal down. 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:49.920 I think it's very advisable based on a lot of 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:53.799 anecdotes I have both heard and personally experienced to be 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:58.200 ready for a follow up shot because I have I've 0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:02.200 personally seen animal be knocked down off their feet by 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:06.360 a shot, lie there on the ground for a handful 0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:09.719 of seconds, and then kick their feet a few times, 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.960 jump back up, and then run to the horizon. So 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:19.400 high degree of um conservatism with your your willingness to 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:23.720 follow up like air. On the side of multiple shots, 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.320 I would say, be liberal with your follow up shots. 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:28.480 Be liberal with your follow up shots. That's a good 0:49:28.480 --> 0:49:36.040 way putting it in. Conservative with your um celebrations. Yes, yea, 0:49:36.760 --> 0:49:38.960 so we had so that breaks down. That's pretty good 0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:44.319 job range. Oh. Yes, to Carl's anatomy lesson there, I 0:49:44.360 --> 0:49:47.040 would say that I would add that, in addition to 0:49:47.080 --> 0:49:49.319 their chest being very deep, their necks are very deep, 0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:54.000 and the location of their spine actually dips kind of 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:58.080 far down into their body, and so this big hump 0:49:58.120 --> 0:50:01.440 of shoulder that makes up you know, the depth that 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:05.400 you're looking at them in profile, has processes or like 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:08.440 almost fin raise of bone that stick up off of it. 0:50:09.239 --> 0:50:13.400 And I think that it is not uncommon spinal processes. 0:50:13.440 --> 0:50:16.000 I think they came right, Yeah, I think I think 0:50:16.040 --> 0:50:19.120 it is not uncommon for them to get hit up 0:50:19.239 --> 0:50:23.120 high in those processes of bones sticking off the spine, 0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:26.880 and that kind of creates shock in the spine, knocks 0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:30.640 them down, gives them the appearance of being stone dead. 0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:34.480 And then as a lot of white tail hunters even 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:36.600 have experience, you know, if you shoot just above or 0:50:36.640 --> 0:50:39.439 just below the spine with a rifle, like you can 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.279 have that happen, right, the deer just looks dead for 0:50:42.520 --> 0:50:44.920 a minute or two minutes and then just pops up 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:48.520 runs away. So I think my suspicion is that that 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:52.160 is a kind of a common thing that occurs with ORYX. 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:56.600 So we had we did not have the en range 0:50:56.680 --> 0:51:00.719 hunt for everybody else who does not like the other 0:51:00.719 --> 0:51:03.120 thing you can apply for when you go online to apply, 0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:05.520 you apply for like the broken horn on range, the 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:08.600 once in a lifetime on range, YadA YadA, or you 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:12.320 just get a straight up off range tag. And the 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:16.680 off range tag is good for the entire state, except 0:51:16.680 --> 0:51:20.480 the range spatial is good for anywhere who was not 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:25.560 a bunch of them. Yeah, and those those other military installations, 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:27.640 and of course you can't go on those places that 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:32.959 are specifically excluded. There's some research areas, and so it's good. Yeah, 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:36.319 it's good for not on the military installations, not on 0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:38.680 any kind of thing that would otherwise be closed to hunting, 0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:43.160 but it's good for all public lands um in the state. 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:46.520 Though the activity in the population is kind of centered 0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:54.239 around the missile range, um private land, off range private land. 0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:59.120 Anyone can go buy a tag at any time and 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:02.480 shooting orcs on private land year round. I didn't know 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.600 that little detail till yesterday. So when you get an 0:52:05.640 --> 0:52:10.600 off range tag like what I had, it's good private 0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:13.840 or public off range and they run the hunts. They 0:52:13.920 --> 0:52:18.080 used to run the hunts year round, so every month, 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:23.680 for every month they issue about a D sixty tags. 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:26.040 They now only run it ten months out of the 0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:29.560 year April and May. They take it off for whatever reason, 0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:31.920 as you want to go turkey hunt, they take turkey 0:52:31.920 --> 0:52:34.000 season off. No, I think it's it's associated with the 0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:36.400 draw because you have to apply for the license, so 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:39.960 there has to be a period, you know where, Like 0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:44.520 so our draw was in April, right, Well, they couldn't 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:47.440 We couldn't call They couldn't call you up in in 0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:51.480 April basically and say oh hey, it's the twenty April 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:53.680 and you drew an orc's Yeah, but it's easy to 0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:56.280 that's not the answer because if that was the case, 0:52:56.920 --> 0:53:00.000 then you would just do the draw and issue April 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:05.560 in May for the whole year ahead. YEA. But hunting 0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:08.719 license because about the hunting license expires, I think that 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.320 you think it is related to that. That's that That's 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:17.520 been my understanding again, maybe not totally scoop them on. No, no, no, 0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:18.960 Now that you put it that way, I like it, 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:21.759 and I think that you would have without divulging details 0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:23.840 about you, I think that you would have reason to 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:31.160 understand sure through proximity. I have a lot of conversations 0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.000 about talks a lot about hunting and fishing in Mexic 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:38.640 with people who are very knowledgeable. So, uh, every month, 0:53:38.719 --> 0:53:40.560 ten months a year they hand out right now, like 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:43.680 what one believe, they give out a hundred and sixty 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:46.239 tags and your tag is good for one month. So 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:47.640 in a lot of areas where you get used to 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:50.399 like deer seasons, whatever, it's a month long, too much long. 0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:55.279 It is always rac season. And those orcs that are 0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:59.400 off range seem to be very aware of the fact 0:53:59.440 --> 0:54:02.319 that people are trying to get them because they live 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:08.040 with it year round. It's always Oris hunting season, and 0:54:08.080 --> 0:54:18.880 they really really overreact. Two sounds of trucks appropriately, they responded, 0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:23.319 Probably a dude perched up on a safari rack in 0:54:23.360 --> 0:54:26.960 the back of a pickup. It was cause for leaving 0:54:27.000 --> 0:54:30.360 not only the area, but cause for leaving the county. 0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:34.520 Draw proportionate response from the orcs or returning to the 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:39.359 range exceedingly wary, and perhaps they have a sense of 0:54:39.480 --> 0:54:43.120 where it's safe to be. It would seem that way, Yeah, 0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:46.799 relatively safe anyway. Yeah, they have a sense of what 0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:50.120 direction to go when you get after him. So we 0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:54.160 showed up to hunt, and I had what these guys 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:57.120 have called themselves and I stand by at the O 0:54:57.320 --> 0:55:01.120 team because I was probably the first at first, I'm 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:05.719 a first time RIX hunter who was being able to 0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:12.840 hunt with three friends who all are seasoned the rics hunters, Like, 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.239 how many hunts have been on Jeremy, Probably about a 0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:17.440 half dozen, six or seven, And how many of you 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:22.439 gotten personally? I've gotten one personally and you I've gotten too, 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:27.520 and probably about a half a dozen others other haunts 0:55:27.640 --> 0:55:31.880 that were successful. Yeah, I would say, I mean similar. 0:55:31.880 --> 0:55:33.520 So I've shot one and I've probably been not with 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:36.520 half a dozen hunts total. And you know, I certainly 0:55:36.560 --> 0:55:39.120 would acknowledge there's a ton of people who have like 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:44.080 infinitely more experience. But the team that we've assembled, I 0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.880 think there's good chemistry and a just a good degree 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:50.840 of um like the right personalities and some people that 0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:53.879 have good game eyes. So I would say, like we're 0:55:53.920 --> 0:55:57.719 probably not like the varsity level in terms of RIX experience. 0:55:57.760 --> 0:56:00.799 But we're we have a trio here. People have spent 0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:02.919 a lot of time glassing and you know what we're 0:56:02.920 --> 0:56:06.960 looking for. Um. So I'm sure there's a bunch of 0:56:06.960 --> 0:56:10.520 people listening to this who would be more scoop um 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:12.440 than we are when it comes to Oric's hunting. But 0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:15.799 we're I would say, like at a at a proficient level, 0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:21.319 describe or hunting well. To be honest with you, the 0:56:21.440 --> 0:56:26.520 time I've spent looking at Orix, um has I probably 0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:29.799 spent more time looking through glass at Orix when I've 0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:33.160 been hunting deer or elk than when I've been hunting Rix. 0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:37.680 So UM A lot of the same strategies, like trying 0:56:37.680 --> 0:56:41.080 to get out there, find a good vantage point. Um. 0:56:41.120 --> 0:56:43.480 You know, I think in an ideal situation, you would 0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:47.640 identify the location of Rix before they see you. I 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:49.080 know a lot of people spend a lot of time 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.760 driving driving roads and looking for him from the vehicles. 0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:54.319 I think, you know, and we've we've spent a lot 0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:56.360 of time driving around just because the area is so 0:56:56.440 --> 0:56:58.120 vast and the places that we want to hunt are 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:01.359 far from each other. But like the idea of getting 0:57:01.400 --> 0:57:04.920 out away from the vehicle, getting up high looking through glass, 0:57:05.760 --> 0:57:08.799 hopefully finding an animal before it's detected you, which is 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:11.320 one of the downsides I think of essentially road hunting. 0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:14.360 You know, oftentimes you're gonna be jumping up in orcs 0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:16.840 with the truck and and hoping to bail out and 0:57:16.880 --> 0:57:19.880 get a shot at it. And to me, like, I 0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:23.000 would prefer a hunt where you're standing on your feet 0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:26.240 looking through a pair of binoculars on a tripod, finding 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:29.720 an ORCX, planning a move and getting in there. I 0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:31.680 think Mike, Mike put it really well. He said something 0:57:31.680 --> 0:57:36.080 like getting in there and tangling with them. You just 0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:38.160 gotta get in there, get in there and mix it up. 0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:39.680 I think that that puts it really well, man. And 0:57:40.080 --> 0:57:43.360 that's you know, for me, and I think for for us, 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:46.320 like that's the that's the way that we like to hunt, man, 0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:50.080 But that that gets a little bit, that gets a 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:55.120 little bit complicated because of the landscape. So the first 0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:58.560 big time the conditions, Yeah, the first orcs we found 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:01.600 on this trip that wasn't on range, So we're up 0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:06.160 on a glass and knob where I don't know, man, 0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:09.080 half of what you're looking at on range we're actually 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:13.120 like staring down the fence line from on high and 0:58:13.160 --> 0:58:16.080 you're like, you're looking down there's a there's a fence 0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:19.880 line that's been cleared, like a very clear demarcation line, 0:58:20.880 --> 0:58:23.200 and half of what we can see is on range. 0:58:23.240 --> 0:58:25.520 Half what we can see is off range, and there's 0:58:25.560 --> 0:58:27.880 a big difference. I mean, there's a bunch of orcs 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:31.080 on range. Maybe I don't know what we saw the 0:58:32.080 --> 0:58:36.240 at first afternoon and next morning we saw sixteen close. Yeah, 0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:38.480 I mean there was seventeen at one point in time, 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:41.600 all visible on one side of the fence. Jeremy and 0:58:41.680 --> 0:58:45.560 I were confident we had seventeen at one, you know, 0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:49.760 basically at one time, and then Mike finally finds one 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:55.000 maybe two yards on the other side of the fence. Right. 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:59.800 We felt saw it from three and a half miles away, 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:01.440 and you think, like, wow, if you can see it 0:59:01.440 --> 0:59:02.680 from three and a half miles away, it must be 0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:07.160 wide open. That's not the case. It's like you get 0:59:07.160 --> 0:59:09.520 glimpses of stuff from way far away, if you're up 0:59:09.600 --> 0:59:12.840 high or whatever. You just get these little glimpses and 0:59:12.880 --> 0:59:14.960 you realize that you might only the thing might only 0:59:15.000 --> 0:59:18.720 be visible like five percent of the time one percent 0:59:18.720 --> 0:59:19.960 of the time, I don't know. You can watch for 0:59:20.040 --> 0:59:22.560 hours and there's like one moment when there it is 0:59:22.600 --> 0:59:24.600 and then it's not. But then you get down on 0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:27.880 its level and there's nowhere to get up and like 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.720 kind of like snipe in at him. There's just nothing 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.919 you can do. You just gotta go in there. It's 0:59:34.920 --> 0:59:37.400 all stuff higher than your head. And even though you 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:41.000 cause some little random glamp glimpse through the gaps and 0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:43.040 the stuff, at the end of the day, you gotta 0:59:43.040 --> 0:59:45.720 get in there. There's like no place to go wait, 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:48.760 there's just you gotta go in there and find him. 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:51.919 He's not gonna come to you. You gotta mix it up. Yeah, 0:59:51.920 --> 0:59:53.400 I mean, like you're gonna get him. You know, he's 0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:55.440 not gonna You're not gonna get him at the Old crossing, 0:59:55.520 --> 0:59:58.240 you know. I mean it's difficult, you know, being kind 0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:00.120 of someone of a spot or two. You know, you 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:03.760 see these animals, you know, the hunter and whoever else 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:06.440 takes off after the animal to put on a potential stock. 1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:09.080 And as a spotter, you really want to be, you know, 1:00:09.880 --> 1:00:12.960 dead set on that animal and provide the most intel 1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:15.320 to that hunter to make sure they can they have 1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:18.360 that they can have a successful stock. And when you're 1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:20.960 sitting behind the glass, you know the contour of that 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:24.960 landscape looks so flat, but when those animals start moving, 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:29.640 they just almost instantly disappear, you know, and so it 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:31.880 can get real frustrating as a spot or as you're 1:00:32.000 --> 1:00:34.320 you know, trying to lay down the groundwork for that 1:00:34.400 --> 1:00:37.120 hunter closing the distance, but you lose sight of those 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.800 animals and you lose sight of them. For I think 1:00:39.840 --> 1:00:42.240 Mike and I, you know, as you guys were hunting, 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:45.320 as you were stalking in on your orics, there were 1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:49.400 moments where we would see the orix completely broadside, you know, 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:52.000 as plain as day, and then he would disappear and 1:00:52.080 --> 1:00:54.880 we would for ten fifteen minutes have have no idea 1:00:54.960 --> 1:00:58.080 where he was, and you would just be panning across 1:00:58.120 --> 1:01:00.480 and every now and then, you know, going back to Carl's, 1:01:00.520 --> 1:01:02.200 you know, the polishing of the horns. You would see 1:01:02.200 --> 1:01:05.480 these yuccas going back and forth and shaking, and then 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:07.320 you would just see a little shine with the tips 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:10.160 of the horns and you would occasionally glance that, you know, 1:01:10.520 --> 1:01:12.840 and then the orcs would move. And then there was 1:01:12.880 --> 1:01:15.520 a couple of instances where we were like, well, I 1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:17.880 think they're gone, you know, like I don't know what 1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:19.640 we're gonna do. But all of a sudden you would 1:01:19.640 --> 1:01:23.439 see something barely, you know, flicker and and you would 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:25.560 think that it was the wide open and if there 1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:27.520 were an orics there you would see it. But he's 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:30.640 just behind the contour that makes him almost invisible. Yeah, 1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:32.200 the one with the one we got onto where we 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:34.800 went in after it. We spooked that probably fifty yards 1:01:35.360 --> 1:01:37.640 I think when it jumped up it was probably sub 1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:39.480 fifty and when it crossed out in front of us 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.360 at a gallop, and I like, I like that because 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:44.760 when that thing moved, I mean, we knew we were 1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:47.720 getting it close to where we'd seen it, and there 1:01:47.720 --> 1:01:53.440 were probably three or four seconds of hearing galloping hoofs 1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:55.160 before we could see the thing. And there was no 1:01:55.280 --> 1:01:58.160 question like, that's the orc's right, It's not gonna be 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:01.160 a beef cowmbering out of there. It was like the 1:02:01.520 --> 1:02:06.600 brum brum. And it came across a gap at you know, 1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:10.160 fifty or sixty yards in front of you, looking animal, 1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:13.040 big long tail flying out behind it, and that was 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:16.200 that was a big body, bold he didn't have very large, 1:02:16.400 --> 1:02:18.880 like very long horns, but the body on it was 1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:22.240 like a tank of an orix. And you know, he 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.680 made a good decision in that situation not to shoot. 1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:26.760 And one of the things we talked about after the 1:02:26.800 --> 1:02:30.160 fact is the tendency of that animal to want to 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:32.680 look back at whatever spooked it, you know, kind of 1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:34.560 like when you think about a mule deer sottting away 1:02:34.600 --> 1:02:37.080 and wanting to pause and look back and occasionally give 1:02:37.120 --> 1:02:42.360 you a shot opportunity. Um orcs are notorious for kind 1:02:42.360 --> 1:02:44.720 of wondering like what the heck was that? And so 1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:49.760 you know, that particular individual did stop, unfortunately in an 1:02:49.800 --> 1:02:51.480 area where we could not see it, and as we 1:02:51.600 --> 1:02:54.840 pursued the direction that he had galloped off, we end 1:02:54.920 --> 1:02:58.520 up spooking him again at a farther distance and watched him, 1:02:58.560 --> 1:03:01.520 you know, disappear again to the vegetation, which in that 1:03:01.560 --> 1:03:06.600 particular example was some kind of scattered, fairly thick juniper 1:03:06.640 --> 1:03:10.880 trees one seed junipers where the thing given us fits it, 1:03:12.080 --> 1:03:15.200 and that animal, Jeremy and I stayed up on the 1:03:15.240 --> 1:03:17.440 glassing knob to try to keep an eye on it, 1:03:18.320 --> 1:03:23.120 and and we lost that orcs about twenty minutes after 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:26.920 you guys laughed, you know, to cover my vehicle and 1:03:26.960 --> 1:03:29.000 then foot this three and a half miles, which we 1:03:29.040 --> 1:03:33.520 knew would take at least an hour um, and we 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:36.360 lost it. But where you jumped it was probably within 1:03:36.400 --> 1:03:40.520 a hundred yards of where we had last just disappeared. 1:03:42.920 --> 1:03:46.680 We never saw it. Well. After we spooked that one, 1:03:46.720 --> 1:03:48.400 we decided to go check out the other side of 1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:50.640 this little ridge and went over there, and Pope popped 1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:54.080 into one the second one we saw, and this one 1:03:54.160 --> 1:03:57.680 was at four yards already dead on us, just staring 1:03:57.720 --> 1:03:59.720 at us, and we're just like creeping up over the top. 1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:05.000 It's locked onto us and gone. Then I was like, man, 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:08.000 this is not going to be super easy, because a 1:04:08.000 --> 1:04:11.320 lot of really hard to draw tags while not being easy, 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:13.680 but this is not the case. Yeah, I think this 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:17.240 is like a really interesting tag to hunt because it's 1:04:17.280 --> 1:04:21.360 not easy. But when you look at the success rates, 1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:23.840 they're not bad. It's not like, you know, it's not 1:04:23.880 --> 1:04:25.960 like killing a bull elk in Montana in the general 1:04:26.000 --> 1:04:31.160 season success right, I mean twenty or something like that. Yeah, 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:33.600 you know, so I think this hunt is like fifty 1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:36.880 or sixty percent success rate. So like if you hunt 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:39.440 them if you really you know, if you put days 1:04:39.480 --> 1:04:42.360 in and you kind of grind it out, you know, 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:46.720 and you will very likely have an opportunity. So it's 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:48.600 not like it's not hard from the sense that, like 1:04:48.640 --> 1:04:51.040 you never see an animal, you know what I mean. 1:04:51.120 --> 1:04:53.600 But but it's very hard from the sense that, like 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:57.840 you have to make a lot of right, correct decisions, 1:04:58.400 --> 1:05:01.120 you know, in in the whole process to really get 1:05:01.120 --> 1:05:03.600 at the work. When the state post success rates for 1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:05.960 the hunt, are they only giving you last year's success 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:08.640 rates or is it like an accumulation of years. Probably 1:05:08.640 --> 1:05:11.120 just last year's success rates, right, Like you can look 1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:13.520 it up year to year, and we're talking like if 1:05:13.560 --> 1:05:15.720 you look last year, I think it's like a forty 1:05:15.760 --> 1:05:19.080 to sixty window across those ten months of off ranch 1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:22.600 hunts is kind of the park. Another factor there is 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:24.240 that you got a month to do it, you know. 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:25.960 And you and I were chatting a bit when you 1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:27.800 found out you drew the tag. You're like, what would 1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:30.160 you what would you recommend? And I said, well, you 1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:31.720 could come down here. We might end up getting one 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:33.160 in a day or two. But I think like a 1:05:33.200 --> 1:05:36.000 week of grinding it out, if we hit it hard, 1:05:37.480 --> 1:05:40.080 you will very likely have a good opportunity if we 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:41.960 hit it hard for a week and you're we got 1:05:41.960 --> 1:05:45.440 one on our fourth day, fourth day. Another thing that 1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:49.080 happened to us while hunting is uh Orcs don't jump 1:05:49.160 --> 1:05:54.440 fences or its go under fences, and they're big and 1:05:54.480 --> 1:05:57.280 they don't fit just under any old fence, and so 1:05:57.640 --> 1:06:00.840 the thing is well known amount or its hunters is 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:05.440 that you need to find they'll use. They'll know of 1:06:05.480 --> 1:06:07.360 crossing spots to get on fences. So whether it's a 1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:09.400 fence that would put them back into the mist into 1:06:09.400 --> 1:06:13.160 the safety of the missile range, or or just range 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:15.360 fences out on the open out on the BLM land. 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:17.920 Like everything around here is BLM ton of BLM, so 1:06:18.120 --> 1:06:22.240 range fences out on BLM land, um, they'll have known 1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:24.640 crossing spots. And it seems just from my observation, it 1:06:24.680 --> 1:06:28.600 seems like they like washouts where flash flooding or whatever 1:06:28.680 --> 1:06:31.800 scours out and makes a significant gap under a fence, 1:06:32.320 --> 1:06:35.640 and then they'll use those spots. I was talking to 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:38.600 an outfit. He was saying, when he's seen people archery 1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:42.240 successfully archery hunt, did he ever say he says he's 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:46.600 seen people get shots. He hasn't had any clients off range. 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:49.480 He hasn't had any off range clients get one with 1:06:49.520 --> 1:06:53.040 a bow, but on range clients get them with bows. 1:06:53.040 --> 1:06:55.080 But I think you're saying off range. He's had people 1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:59.880 get shots, um, and those have been by finding a 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:04.080 crossing under a fence and then just posting up and 1:07:04.120 --> 1:07:06.080 waiting on that crossing under the fence. And the thing 1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:07.760 that they like to do, he was explaining, is the 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:10.800 thing they do is they brush out all the crossings 1:07:10.840 --> 1:07:13.560 so you can tell the vintage of tracks coming through. 1:07:13.840 --> 1:07:16.400 And they'll also just take tires and stuff and drag 1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:20.040 tires down the road to scrub the road of tracks, 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:22.880 and then the morning you go drive the scrubbed road. 1:07:23.120 --> 1:07:25.080 I've seen people do this by pulling old box springs 1:07:25.080 --> 1:07:29.120 behind there, like just like bed springs, the same way 1:07:29.120 --> 1:07:31.280 you might groom out of baseball field or whatever, a 1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:34.880 chunk of chain link fence. Yeah, yeah, scrub it all out, 1:07:34.960 --> 1:07:37.120 and then the morning go drive and pick up a track. 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:39.520 Because the peculiarity of this area, which would not this 1:07:39.520 --> 1:07:41.880 would be hard for people to picture they live in 1:07:41.920 --> 1:07:44.920 other parts of the country. When you're following a track 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:51.680 in the desert, you can pretty much run. You can 1:07:51.720 --> 1:07:54.400 pretty much run and follow a track once you know 1:07:54.400 --> 1:07:56.280 what you're looking at. There's not so many tracks, and 1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:58.960 it's confusing. It wouldn't be like following white tails in 1:07:58.960 --> 1:08:02.480 the snow, where you know they're criss crossing and zigzag. 1:08:02.600 --> 1:08:05.520 And here's another group of six and then seven more 1:08:05.560 --> 1:08:08.240 across the track, and then he started hanging out with 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:10.080 five of them and split off, and you can never 1:08:10.120 --> 1:08:13.160 do It's like it's sparse enough. There's a few enough 1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:16.280 life forms around that when you get on that track, 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:19.400 you could run that track down. And one day we're 1:08:19.479 --> 1:08:21.400 driving along and we hit where there's a whole look 1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:25.000 a little hole down in the road, and we got 1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:26.680 out and sussed it out for quite a while and 1:08:26.720 --> 1:08:29.759 eventually found where the track he had come in, mingled 1:08:29.800 --> 1:08:32.559 around the road a long time, went under a fence, 1:08:32.600 --> 1:08:35.240 and then we got on that track and followed that track, 1:08:35.360 --> 1:08:40.080 and um, you're just most of the time you'd have 1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:43.960 like a maximum shooting distance of fifty yards most of 1:08:43.960 --> 1:08:46.800 the time, like for like a clear shot, but you're 1:08:46.840 --> 1:08:48.719 just able to follow that track. And following this ORCS 1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:51.759 track he went to I think we were calling betting areas, 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:54.240 but they're like scent post areas. He went from one 1:08:54.280 --> 1:08:56.639 to the next. I think he went to four spots, 1:08:57.160 --> 1:09:00.160 and the spots were all the same, big shade tree. 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:04.120 Tons of ships scattered around the shade tree, pawed up 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:07.559 ground and obvious beds, and then that track would leave 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:10.800 and he'd go off in some other direction and he'd 1:09:10.880 --> 1:09:14.280 hit another one of those spots, and we followed him 1:09:14.320 --> 1:09:19.400 in a gigantic backwards s that's exactly right, at which 1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:21.040 point was like a hundred three degrees and we gave 1:09:21.120 --> 1:09:23.720 up on the track. Yeah, that s I mean the 1:09:23.760 --> 1:09:25.840 way you described it as exactly if you imagine just 1:09:26.000 --> 1:09:29.360 the mirror image of a giant s that from top 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:32.880 to bottom was about one point four miles tall, So 1:09:32.960 --> 1:09:35.000 the length of that s We probably tracked that thing 1:09:35.080 --> 1:09:38.680 for two two and a half miles. And it was 1:09:38.800 --> 1:09:43.280 this securitist route that intersected with a number of those 1:09:43.720 --> 1:09:45.960 sent post spots along the way. And it was cool 1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:48.679 because there were other, you look like, other places where 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:52.800 multiple animals might have come together and broken off and 1:09:52.920 --> 1:09:55.519 split apart. It hard, and I felt like at one 1:09:55.560 --> 1:10:00.160 point we might have got off big certainly upgraded. It's 1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:01.920 all a sudden the track we were on, like you'd 1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:05.320 get confused at these scent areas, and Carl felt and 1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:07.680 I think he was right advise, I feel like our 1:10:07.720 --> 1:10:10.120 track is like ever so slightly bigger than when they 1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:12.600 were on earlier. An interesting thing about the reason I 1:10:12.680 --> 1:10:15.920 was hard to keep optimism about the track was that 1:10:15.960 --> 1:10:19.200 we found where a coyote had stepped in its track, 1:10:20.840 --> 1:10:24.200 and I'm like, okay, did a Kyle step in its 1:10:24.200 --> 1:10:26.240 track five minutes ago? Or are we on a day 1:10:26.280 --> 1:10:29.320 old track from the evening before? And then we found 1:10:29.320 --> 1:10:32.920 where it bedded, but we're it bedded a lizard had 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:36.559 walked across, and I'm like, okay, did he just get 1:10:36.640 --> 1:10:40.160 up and a lizard happened to then just run across? 1:10:40.400 --> 1:10:41.840 Or has that been there a while? And that you 1:10:41.880 --> 1:10:44.280 know what I mean? That shook my confidence a little bit. 1:10:44.680 --> 1:10:46.240 And on the flip side, though, we had a couple 1:10:46.680 --> 1:10:50.280 we found a couple of fecal piles that you know, 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:53.439 if you chipped away at the top down at the core, 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:57.679 there was still like some mucusie moisture down in there, 1:10:57.720 --> 1:11:00.760 and and the way that sun is loking down like 1:11:00.840 --> 1:11:04.599 I don't think a pile of scat like that could 1:11:04.640 --> 1:11:07.880 stay put for twenty four hours and not get baked 1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:09.840 to the drive all the way out because that I 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:11.920 mean they were out in the wide open. So you 1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:15.040 and I, like independently, I think we reached a similar 1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:17.760 conclusion that that the tracks we were looking at were 1:11:17.800 --> 1:11:20.799 probably from like the afternoon or evening of the day before. 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:23.719 And then you're wondering, like, Okay, you know, the gate 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:25.960 of these things. If they're just cruising, obviously they can 1:11:26.000 --> 1:11:27.360 cover a ton of ground, but if they're in the 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:29.720 process of you know, like kind of checking out these 1:11:29.760 --> 1:11:32.519 different sent post areas, bedding down from time to time, 1:11:33.160 --> 1:11:36.360 feeding like maybe we're gaining ground, but one thing is 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:38.840 sure in your mind, You're like, I know, beyond the 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:41.519 shadow of a doubt at the end of this trail 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:44.280 there is an oryx and I don't know how far 1:11:44.400 --> 1:11:46.760 that if you and if you had the stamina and 1:11:46.760 --> 1:11:49.040 and it didn't get over the fence into the range, 1:11:49.040 --> 1:11:52.800 like you would eventually spook it or find it, uh 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:55.920 following that track. Another interesting thing about it is like 1:11:55.960 --> 1:12:00.160 when you're up glassing, so Jeremy, explain your safari rack. Well, 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:01.840 I think I think you guys, you know, bring up 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:04.679 a great point, right, there's no perfect way to hunt Rix. 1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:07.759 You know, we did. We tracked, we got up on knobs, 1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:11.160 and we glassed, and we cruised the Safari Rac. And 1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:13.639 you know, about ten years ago when I first started 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:16.840 hunting Orix with some friends of mine, we've kind of 1:12:16.880 --> 1:12:20.040 fell into that same scenario where we were in the vehicle, 1:12:20.360 --> 1:12:22.439 you know, trying to track, trying to get to knobs 1:12:22.439 --> 1:12:24.960 to glass, and we just weren't being productive. We weren't 1:12:24.960 --> 1:12:27.640 turning up a lot of animals. And we realized, you know, 1:12:27.680 --> 1:12:30.000 with the contour of the landscape, we needed to get 1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:33.120 a vantage point. You know, they're the habitat is so 1:12:33.200 --> 1:12:36.240 expansive that you know, in order to cover that ground, 1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:39.320 you want to be doing it efficiently. And so we 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:42.240 you know, I have two really good friends, my my 1:12:42.320 --> 1:12:44.640 two buddies. They you know, put in a lot of 1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:47.320 hard work and creating this Safari Rac. They took an 1:12:47.320 --> 1:12:54.559 old ski lift at the time. At the time, Hey, 1:12:54.600 --> 1:12:57.519 this is coming from the world worst welder, well knows, 1:12:57.560 --> 1:13:00.360 people that have never welded, and then there's me, the 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:03.640 world's worst welder, and then everything up from there. I 1:13:03.680 --> 1:13:05.400 feel like I could give you a run for your 1:13:05.400 --> 1:13:09.240 money on my high school legg teacher more or less 1:13:09.280 --> 1:13:12.439 just like ask me to stop, please, Mike, Yeah, this 1:13:12.600 --> 1:13:15.600 is I would like you to stop using the welder you. 1:13:15.800 --> 1:13:17.639 I'll just give you a passing grade, but I don't 1:13:17.640 --> 1:13:21.120 want you to do it anymore. That is really an 1:13:21.160 --> 1:13:25.439 accurate portrayal of my my experience in welding. I think 1:13:25.960 --> 1:13:27.719 not to beat the welding thing to death, but there's 1:13:27.760 --> 1:13:30.439 like form and function, right and when it comes to function, 1:13:30.520 --> 1:13:35.200 that rack held two of us. You know that we're insensitive. 1:13:35.240 --> 1:13:40.759 We're insensitive times. We're insensitive times. And everyone right now, 1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:44.520 and I'm talking nationally, everyone right now is over sensitive 1:13:44.600 --> 1:13:49.200 and we're struggling with our sensitivity. I'm just making a 1:13:49.280 --> 1:13:53.320 joke about some globby ask looking wells on the Safari rack, 1:13:53.560 --> 1:13:55.479 and I'll point out that I was very aware of 1:13:55.520 --> 1:13:57.720 these because the roads are very rocky. And when you're 1:13:57.800 --> 1:14:00.200 up on the Safari rack and the driver tip a 1:14:00.240 --> 1:14:03.080 little bit to the right, because it's a thing you're 1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:05.320 like on a in the what do you call it 1:14:05.400 --> 1:14:09.040 a tuna boat. You're in the tuna tower. So it's 1:14:09.120 --> 1:14:12.599 two foot seas in a tuna tower feels like it's 1:14:12.640 --> 1:14:15.680 eight foot seas put someone down on the deck because like, no, 1:14:15.800 --> 1:14:17.800 stupid seas, Like, how could it be tupid seas. I'm 1:14:17.880 --> 1:14:22.680 swaying ten feet side to side. I think you're The 1:14:22.720 --> 1:14:26.760 wells held. The sea clamp didn't go at point the 1:14:26.840 --> 1:14:30.120 sea clamp inexplicably broken half. I never see, like I 1:14:30.160 --> 1:14:32.000 thought it, well, it must have come loose, and they're like, 1:14:32.000 --> 1:14:34.920 I don't know it broke. They got too hot. Yeah, 1:14:34.960 --> 1:14:37.280 I've never seen it got too hot from the heat 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:41.400 of the sun and it burst the metal. But listen, man, 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:45.720 a sense of time. Understand everyone's sensitive, but everything the 1:14:45.800 --> 1:14:49.240 wells they might hold great. I'm not saying I could 1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:52.559 do better. The wells are shitty. I'm not going to disagree. 1:14:52.720 --> 1:14:55.160 But they held. And it just struck me as funny 1:14:55.400 --> 1:14:58.759 absolutely to be up there, swaying back and forth looking 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:01.880 at that weld. Yeah, for a lot of hours, and 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:05.439 that's yeah. You know, well, it's the type of thing 1:15:05.479 --> 1:15:08.400 where you know, the first time you you make it, 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:11.080 you've learned what you can add to it to make 1:15:11.080 --> 1:15:13.439 it that much more comfortable, and it's just unfortunate that 1:15:13.479 --> 1:15:17.759 we haven't had the time to make it. He found 1:15:18.040 --> 1:15:22.360 he found a former ski lift bench. Yeah, and it 1:15:22.720 --> 1:15:25.120 and it fixed it to the top of a contractor rack. Yeah, 1:15:25.400 --> 1:15:27.840 it's perfectly you know, when it gets the job done. 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:29.719 The idea is when you're trying to get to point 1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:32.240 A to point B, you know, get on those high spots, 1:15:32.640 --> 1:15:35.360 use the extra you know, six six ft on top 1:15:35.400 --> 1:15:38.639 of that rack to just spend some time glass the breeze. 1:15:38.720 --> 1:15:40.639 Two does you know you get you get the driver 1:15:40.720 --> 1:15:45.479 to cruise at that fift blowing through your hair. Yet 1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:49.840 you're just comfortably miserable. But you know, it's it's been 1:15:49.880 --> 1:15:53.639 something that has has helped us tremendously and covering ground 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:55.880 and being able to turn up worcs. And but like 1:15:55.920 --> 1:15:58.200 you guys said, point being what I was good at 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:00.400 about the spar I rack and when we abound other 1:16:00.439 --> 1:16:03.720 hunt methods, but when we were tracking in orcs, we 1:16:03.840 --> 1:16:06.240 never got like terribly far away from the zig zagging around. 1:16:06.280 --> 1:16:08.519 We got from the one we got one point five 1:16:08.600 --> 1:16:11.640 miles from the where the truck was. You're you're up 1:16:11.640 --> 1:16:15.840 there in your glassing and you're like, oh, there's nothing here. Yeah, 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:19.840 I've looked none here. Let's move And then you get 1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:23.920 down into that ship and the Safari rack on the 1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:27.880 truck is how high, it's probably about seven. You get 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:31.640 down into that ship, you're six ft tall. Yep, the 1:16:31.640 --> 1:16:35.960 Safari rack is probably yea, the Safari rac seven ft tall. 1:16:36.280 --> 1:16:40.920 And you realize that almost at no time can you 1:16:41.000 --> 1:16:44.639 look and see that thing right, And you're like, I think, 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:46.240 Carl put it like you said, I think that when 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:49.200 we're glassing this stuff, we're probably maybe we're seeing ten. 1:16:51.120 --> 1:16:53.080 We're having like if there's an ORCS there, we have 1:16:53.120 --> 1:16:58.360 like a one in ten of seeing it. And to 1:16:58.560 --> 1:17:03.400 bring that to highlight at we go to a spot 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:06.400 you guys that hunt it before, and we're looking out 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:11.760 on just solid, like you know, over eight degrees of no, 1:17:12.040 --> 1:17:15.160 hundred eighty degrees of like great stuff. We're kind of 1:17:15.240 --> 1:17:19.240 up by a stock tank. We got of just flat 1:17:19.439 --> 1:17:21.960 and we're nice and high, nice and high. It's so 1:17:22.080 --> 1:17:24.519 flat that I noticed that Jeremy. When Jeremy glasses, you 1:17:24.560 --> 1:17:27.120 don't even really mess around too much of binoculars. It's 1:17:27.120 --> 1:17:29.200 so flat. You can just take your spot and scope 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:34.000 and you can basically get everything from hundred and fifty 1:17:34.080 --> 1:17:38.599 or two hundred yards out to infinity in one frame. 1:17:38.720 --> 1:17:40.519 So you can just take your spot and scope paste 1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:42.600 it out and just move it back and forth. And 1:17:42.640 --> 1:17:45.000 there's no like up down movement. You just got the 1:17:45.040 --> 1:17:51.080 whole damn scene as you swoop along. Uh, We're sitting there, 1:17:51.880 --> 1:17:53.960 all of us, glass and glass and glass, and and 1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:58.000 all of a sudden and ORCS is seven yards away, 1:17:58.800 --> 1:18:02.760 standing on a sand mound. No one saw it. It's 1:18:03.240 --> 1:18:06.479 right and front of us, so everything to the left, 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:08.080 everything right. No one caught a glimpse of wherever the 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:10.679 hell it came from. It popped up in the frame 1:18:10.720 --> 1:18:14.080 of my binoculars. As I'm looking in my binoculars seeing 1:18:14.080 --> 1:18:18.560 no Orex, all of a sudden in Oris just emerges 1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:22.920 from below, full body up on this knob, looking at 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:26.000 us in order to stare at us seven yards is 1:18:26.040 --> 1:18:28.479 already like very aware of us. Yeah, I have a 1:18:28.520 --> 1:18:32.960 theory that that ORACX was closer, way closer, minutes before 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:35.759 that or seconds before that, Like it was cruising along 1:18:36.280 --> 1:18:38.360 towards where we were, where we were heard of us, 1:18:38.520 --> 1:18:41.719 whatever heard us, saw us, bolted and then was doing 1:18:41.760 --> 1:18:43.679 that like what the heck is going on back there 1:18:43.760 --> 1:18:46.120 from seven yards away. And that's when I saw it, 1:18:46.320 --> 1:18:48.439 because that for it to pick us up, like we 1:18:48.479 --> 1:18:50.800 went back down and it seemed track. It just didn't 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:52.640 make sense. So that's my theory on that one. So 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:55.439 we went out, Well, I was just gonna say, and ORCX. 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:57.960 You know, if if you imagine the way that we're looking, 1:18:58.120 --> 1:19:00.240 I mean, the ORCS is at twelve o'clock, you know, 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:02.360 like you know, it's not like off to the side. 1:19:03.000 --> 1:19:07.560 It quickly the way that everybody is faced unless it 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:10.080 had been waiting there. Lets it have been waiting there 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:13.200 all day. It somehow passed, traveled through some amount of 1:19:13.200 --> 1:19:20.719 stuff in front of us, emerged, became visible, then gallops off. 1:19:22.560 --> 1:19:25.240 No one catches a glimpse of it leaving. We go 1:19:25.280 --> 1:19:29.960 out and strike its track and follow its track. And 1:19:30.000 --> 1:19:31.559 what does it do? It doesn't look like from the 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:33.679 where we found from where we picked up the track, 1:19:34.320 --> 1:19:37.920 it looks like it trotted in a bee line and 1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:40.160 crossed into the missile range. It was like it had 1:19:40.200 --> 1:19:42.759 a particular spot in mind, and we got to that place. 1:19:42.920 --> 1:19:45.559 It was a spot where you know that bottom strand 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:47.800 of that barbedware fence on the edge of the missile range. 1:19:47.960 --> 1:19:51.400 Ordinarily it's probably like shin Hai, and at that spot 1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:54.320 it was like mid thigh high, and that oracs like 1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:56.920 without breaking stride, just a duct right under at that 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.160 spot as we were like fouling the track, and I 1:19:59.160 --> 1:20:03.240 could see the missile range boundary coming up. I'm thinking 1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:07.680 that We're all thinking like it'll hit the fence, but 1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:10.160 then it will obviously have to travel, and I'm trying 1:20:10.160 --> 1:20:11.640 to figure out, like, is he gonna cut left or 1:20:11.760 --> 1:20:14.679 right and maybe we'll catch it going down the fence 1:20:14.720 --> 1:20:18.000 line somewhere, trying to find work across. But it had 1:20:18.000 --> 1:20:20.240 already knewhere I was gonna cross and hit the fence 1:20:20.280 --> 1:20:24.120 at a crossing and book back to safety. And it did. 1:20:24.360 --> 1:20:28.080 And then I was like, these sons of bitches, like 1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:31.240 hard it did all that with any without any of 1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:35.679 us seeing it cover like what four hundred yards while 1:20:35.760 --> 1:20:39.320 you think you're sitting there glassing the area I meanwhile 1:20:39.520 --> 1:20:41.479 you're glassing is so well in fact, that one can 1:20:41.600 --> 1:20:44.600 run through four yards of the stuff in front of 1:20:44.600 --> 1:20:46.920 you and no one lays Anne right, it disappeared off 1:20:46.920 --> 1:20:49.559 the sand mound. Jeremy picked it up one place to 1:20:49.600 --> 1:20:52.760 the left, so we knew it was going you know 1:20:52.840 --> 1:20:57.439 that direction, and then nobody ever saw it again in 1:20:57.479 --> 1:20:59.000 the five of them, I mean and we're looking in 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.680 the range, t right. We expected that animal to make 1:21:01.720 --> 1:21:03.840 its way in there and do the old fashioned look back, 1:21:03.920 --> 1:21:06.840 you know, And an hour later, we're still looking for that. 1:21:06.840 --> 1:21:09.280 I'm all on range and never found it. Did Jeremy 1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:11.920 and I continued to spot from where we had originally 1:21:11.960 --> 1:21:15.120 seen the animal, you know, while you guys tried to 1:21:15.160 --> 1:21:18.760 put a track job on it. And nobody, neither of 1:21:18.840 --> 1:21:21.599 us ever put eyes on that. And that's the thing 1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:24.160 I've speculated on a couple of times. I wondered about 1:21:24.160 --> 1:21:28.280 the relationship to the fence in two ways. I wondered 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:30.960 about the relation to the fence is how onerous do 1:21:31.040 --> 1:21:35.080 they view? Like? How annoying is it to cross? Because 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:39.360 if you're hunting pronghorn, you'll often find that a spook 1:21:39.479 --> 1:21:44.400 pronghorn will get really confused at a you know, like 1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:47.680 a four or five strand fence if they hit, if 1:21:47.720 --> 1:21:50.679 they're out of their normal routine and they get bumped 1:21:50.760 --> 1:21:52.240 or spooked some hunt way, they don't want to be 1:21:52.240 --> 1:21:55.280 spooked and they hit a fence, they'll be like, because 1:21:55.320 --> 1:21:58.400 they don't, let's just say they don't. They will, Okay, 1:21:58.400 --> 1:22:00.320 for all you people that are gonna send in videos, 1:22:00.320 --> 1:22:03.920 of the prong horm. Wile jump a fence, they'll jump fence. 1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:07.320 Do they like to do? They do it norminally generally 1:22:07.320 --> 1:22:10.000 want to go under fences. But they are capable, yes, 1:22:10.000 --> 1:22:14.000 of jumping fences. But I've watched them hit fences and 1:22:14.000 --> 1:22:18.439 then run for a mile down the fence, almost like 1:22:18.520 --> 1:22:21.400 second guests themselves, and start coming back and running down. 1:22:21.439 --> 1:22:23.120 It's always like when you when a deer's going across 1:22:23.120 --> 1:22:25.400 the road and hit your car, that they'll just start 1:22:25.439 --> 1:22:28.000 paralleling your car now and then, and it seems so illogical. 1:22:28.240 --> 1:22:30.840 I see him do crazy ship up against fences, like 1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:34.479 very disoriented. So I was like, what is the orcs 1:22:34.680 --> 1:22:37.760 relationship to the fence in that way, and what is 1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:42.880 its relationship to knowing that the safety of the other 1:22:42.920 --> 1:22:48.439 side of the fence. And I think that, uh, they're 1:22:48.479 --> 1:22:51.439 not terribly annoyed by getting across the fence because they 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:56.040 have spatial awareness where they know like the crossing. And 1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:58.160 I and my just little pet theory, which is like 1:22:58.200 --> 1:23:03.480 completely like an amateur theory, is that they are um, 1:23:03.640 --> 1:23:06.439 they're aware of that there that they get screwed with 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:10.080 less over there, which are the other kind of big 1:23:10.120 --> 1:23:13.360 animal animal definitely figures that kind of stuff out. Yeah, 1:23:13.400 --> 1:23:16.000 I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:20.840 they understand, you know, that they're safer on the range 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:23.519 side of the fence. I've seen those animals cross in 1:23:23.560 --> 1:23:25.720 front of us at a fence line, and they will 1:23:26.160 --> 1:23:29.000 cross under a fence almost about the same speed that 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:31.880 they're approaching that fence, if they're in about a gallop. 1:23:31.880 --> 1:23:34.760 I've seen those that It's amazing how fast in order 1:23:34.800 --> 1:23:36.640 its can dip down to the ground. You know, we 1:23:36.680 --> 1:23:39.479 think about ourselves trying to crawl under the bottom strand 1:23:39.479 --> 1:23:40.920 of the barbed wire, you know, and you're on your 1:23:41.000 --> 1:23:43.000 knees and you're you know, things are hurt. And I've 1:23:43.000 --> 1:23:46.559 seen those animals just dip and they're under that fence 1:23:46.600 --> 1:23:49.200 and they're maintaining the same momentum out of there, so 1:23:49.640 --> 1:23:53.360 they they're pretty athletic. I'll share with you a fence 1:23:53.400 --> 1:23:55.719 story that I've shared before, but it's worth it's worth 1:23:56.200 --> 1:23:59.679 telling it again. Uh, we knew this guy in Florida. 1:24:00.000 --> 1:24:01.720 We're down there turkey hunting in Florida one time and 1:24:01.800 --> 1:24:03.679 we ran into these guys that like to run pigs 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:06.680 with dogs and they're like, oh, you guys should come 1:24:06.680 --> 1:24:10.719 out with a snipe and um. This guy's family's cattle ranch, 1:24:12.200 --> 1:24:19.200 a butts of nature preserve, um, and the between stuth 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.479 that's been traditionally grazed, the difference between like what's been 1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:24.800 traditionally grays, which is all these hammocks. So it's like 1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:29.240 just grasslands with these palm hammocks in it, very open um, 1:24:29.360 --> 1:24:31.439 grays very low. It's just been you know, grace for 1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:35.479 whatever a couple hundred years. I don't know. The bird 1:24:35.520 --> 1:24:40.400 preserve is a comparatively a jungle, so it's amazing to 1:24:40.400 --> 1:24:43.000 see this juxtaposition between something that hasn't been grayed and 1:24:43.040 --> 1:24:46.320 however many decades and something that traditionally is like a 1:24:46.560 --> 1:24:51.280 very different landscape. So on the border between the cattle 1:24:51.360 --> 1:24:57.960 ranch and the preserve is a fence. The cattle ranch 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:01.599 has a problem with hogs digging it up too bad, 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:06.639 so he put a hogproof fence. Someone had put historic 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:10.360 it's going to put a hogproof fence, but there are 1:25:10.400 --> 1:25:12.639 other people argue whether there really is no hogproof fence, 1:25:12.640 --> 1:25:14.720 but it's like kind of a hogproof fence, though they're 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:17.400 always finding ways to get in and around it. What 1:25:17.520 --> 1:25:19.879 this guy would do because this guy liked to hunt pigs. 1:25:20.479 --> 1:25:27.960 He put little doorways into the hogproof fence. This is 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:32.240 the rancher's kid. He puts doorways into the hogproof fence 1:25:33.080 --> 1:25:35.519 in order that the hogs can come onto the ranch 1:25:36.520 --> 1:25:39.920 and let he lets him get used to the holes. 1:25:40.680 --> 1:25:42.439 So when we go out to hunt hogs, the first 1:25:42.479 --> 1:25:46.080 thing he does is, well, let me go close all 1:25:46.120 --> 1:25:50.799 the doors. He then drives down this big gass long fence, 1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:56.400 closing all the doors. Once it's about midnight, then we 1:25:56.439 --> 1:26:00.240 started hunting. And guess where the dogs catch the x 1:26:02.280 --> 1:26:05.880 at the doors? At the doors. So yeah, there's a 1:26:05.880 --> 1:26:19.120 little hunting method. There's a research preserve. I used to 1:26:19.120 --> 1:26:21.320 live on um in southeast Michigan when I was an 1:26:21.360 --> 1:26:25.240 undergraduate at the University of Michigan, and there was a 1:26:25.280 --> 1:26:27.360 deer herd on the property. It's a famous deer heard 1:26:27.400 --> 1:26:29.840 The George Reserve is the name of this place. And 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:34.040 the fence had fallen into tremendous disrepair and um I 1:26:34.080 --> 1:26:36.680 worked one summer helping to repair that fence line. And 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:38.640 there were some places where white tailed deer trails were 1:26:38.680 --> 1:26:41.920 coming on and off the reserve. And one day, in 1:26:41.960 --> 1:26:44.360 the middle of the day, I just closed up a 1:26:44.360 --> 1:26:46.800 portion of that fence, and there's a mountain bike trail 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:49.360 that goes along the outside of the reserve, and a 1:26:49.400 --> 1:26:52.559 mountain biker had spooked a white tail dough And so 1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:55.600 I'm standing there along the fence, just mending mending a 1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:58.040 portion of the fence, and twenty yards to my left 1:26:58.240 --> 1:27:01.120 is the spot I just fixed. And this dough comes 1:27:01.160 --> 1:27:03.960 tearing through the woods and smashes into that spot in 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:07.200 the fence, backs up, smashes into it again, and then 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:09.639 stands there looking at the spot, and then races off 1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:12.080 the other way down along the fence line. So they 1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:15.000 get keyed into those crossing points. That's interesting, man, She's 1:27:15.000 --> 1:27:17.080 like this normally works. I mean, she hit it hard, 1:27:17.280 --> 1:27:18.920 Like I'm standing there at the fence, and you know, 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:21.880 if you imagine like an outfielder going for a home 1:27:21.960 --> 1:27:24.000 run and crash into the fence, that's what it sounded like, 1:27:24.040 --> 1:27:27.320 that big ching of the you know, the chain link. 1:27:27.520 --> 1:27:29.519 And then and then backed up and did the same 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:32.320 thing again, like I know this is the spot without 1:27:32.360 --> 1:27:34.200 a shred of doubt in her mind. I don't know 1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:37.400 why mountain biker comes by. Yeah, I was like, what's 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:39.519 she running? From, you know, and then there's this ten 1:27:39.600 --> 1:27:41.160 seconds away and here comes a dude on the mountain. 1:27:41.160 --> 1:27:43.280 But I don't know why I'm thinking this right now, 1:27:43.439 --> 1:27:44.880 but I want to get back to what we're talking about. 1:27:44.920 --> 1:27:46.800 But I got a buddy who's a surveyor, and he 1:27:46.880 --> 1:27:49.800 was surveying in Michigan's Apa Peninsula. And you put up 1:27:49.840 --> 1:27:52.120 those little contraptions that you look at each other, the 1:27:52.120 --> 1:27:57.640 two surveyors. He said that it's all it's in the wintertime, 1:27:57.680 --> 1:28:00.000 and the all dear starving and ship in the wintertime. 1:28:00.040 --> 1:28:02.479 Him and they got to go through a sight line 1:28:03.160 --> 1:28:07.840 through the hemlocks, and he's bit like, well, they call 1:28:07.960 --> 1:28:10.320 like cedar swamps up there, right, there's the hemlocker cedar 1:28:10.400 --> 1:28:13.680 up there. I've heard. I think it's cedar swamps. So 1:28:14.640 --> 1:28:16.720 they cut the sight line and then he gets on 1:28:16.840 --> 1:28:18.519 his little thing and the other guys on his little thing, 1:28:19.000 --> 1:28:21.080 and he said, they having the chainsaw running while they 1:28:21.120 --> 1:28:23.400 cut the sight line. Deer just showing up. They hear 1:28:23.439 --> 1:28:25.880 the chainsaw and come running. So he said, you get 1:28:25.880 --> 1:28:27.120 set up to do your work. And he had to 1:28:27.200 --> 1:28:29.719 hustle becauseaid all of a sudden, all the deer would 1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:31.840 be filling in eating all the junk they knocked down, 1:28:31.960 --> 1:28:34.200 and someone had to run along trying to scare the deer, 1:28:34.720 --> 1:28:36.360 heard the deer out of the way enough to then 1:28:36.400 --> 1:28:40.960 go back and try to do your survey work. Anyways, works. 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:43.200 I'd knock cedar limbs down to catch deer is like 1:28:43.240 --> 1:28:44.880 a bait source when I was darting deer from my 1:28:44.920 --> 1:28:47.360 grad project winter. Yeah, you could just you could just 1:28:47.400 --> 1:28:49.280 trim a couple of low limbs that were just out 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:51.439 of reach of the brows line, and it was just 1:28:51.479 --> 1:28:53.320 as good as having any other kind of bait out 1:28:53.320 --> 1:28:55.280 there for bringing him into dart range and then try 1:28:55.280 --> 1:29:01.320 and quil huh uh the one we got, the one 1:29:01.360 --> 1:29:05.679 we got, the works we got. It was very similar 1:29:05.680 --> 1:29:07.879 to hunt. It was like very similar to an antalope 1:29:07.960 --> 1:29:11.920 hunt situation, at least for me. I would agree in 1:29:11.960 --> 1:29:15.760 general terms other than the vegetation, but in terms of 1:29:16.120 --> 1:29:22.080 there's some generally drifting like like a caribou antelope kind 1:29:22.080 --> 1:29:24.240 of set up. I feel like like there's some pretty 1:29:24.240 --> 1:29:29.559 far away ye generally drifting in some direction on a 1:29:29.840 --> 1:29:40.120 somewhat identifiable land along a somewhat identifiable vegetation zone. Um, 1:29:40.200 --> 1:29:44.080 and you strike off at an angle and try to 1:29:44.080 --> 1:29:48.719 get to where you think they will arrive, but again 1:29:48.960 --> 1:29:51.080 far off. It was like, oh, there's some WORCS moving 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:52.680 along and there he is, and there he is, there 1:29:52.720 --> 1:29:54.680 he isn't there he is? And then you get down 1:29:54.720 --> 1:29:57.559 in the ship and it's like I have no idea 1:29:58.320 --> 1:30:01.439 what is going on and we're using this far off 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:05.200 power line like who you spot it again? Like damn? 1:30:05.640 --> 1:30:08.639 Well yeah, I mean it was a real group effort 1:30:08.640 --> 1:30:11.400 though to keep up with that. Well was the first 1:30:11.439 --> 1:30:13.960 one that picked it off. Yeah, right and way off, 1:30:14.000 --> 1:30:15.760 and it was a real obvy. I mean, this one 1:30:15.880 --> 1:30:17.600 was like an easy one. It just sort of like 1:30:17.680 --> 1:30:20.120 Carl's where it was like you know, scanning something you 1:30:20.240 --> 1:30:24.280 scanned ten times and like standing right, like no question 1:30:24.600 --> 1:30:27.479 like that right, there's an ORCS broad side and way 1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:30.280 the hell off as a power line, and you're able 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:32.360 to be like there's a trailer you could see like 1:30:32.439 --> 1:30:37.000 count eight power polls. And so when we struck off, 1:30:38.280 --> 1:30:40.080 we just went at an angle and at the point 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:42.640 got lucky because we're sort of getting like, you know, 1:30:43.439 --> 1:30:46.160 one where they are, and then we eventually catch a 1:30:46.160 --> 1:30:49.120 glimpse of one and we had it being like let's 1:30:49.120 --> 1:30:52.240 say we're facing some way, um, and we had to 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:56.160 be that they were gonna be appearing at one o'clock 1:30:57.120 --> 1:30:59.760 if we're lucky. And we're recognizing at this point that 1:30:59.840 --> 1:31:03.680 like everything's very far away, you can't see ship, like 1:31:03.800 --> 1:31:05.880 not thumbing your gotten knife to check if it's sharp. 1:31:05.920 --> 1:31:08.120 You know, you're like, who knows. But we had a 1:31:08.160 --> 1:31:11.679 little cow like an analop hunting blind cole blind looks 1:31:11.680 --> 1:31:15.800 like a cow set up, and our line was off 1:31:15.880 --> 1:31:18.960 or they changed course, and all of a sudden, Carl's 1:31:18.960 --> 1:31:21.760 got one at what distance I would say at that 1:31:21.800 --> 1:31:25.960 point it was probably like one fifty pick us picking 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:29.920 us off at one, Yeah, and most you know, our 1:31:29.960 --> 1:31:32.080 attention had been focused. If you imagine looking at like 1:31:32.120 --> 1:31:34.639 twelve o'clock is where we're thinking we might see these orcs. 1:31:35.120 --> 1:31:36.320 I was trying to make it a point to do 1:31:36.360 --> 1:31:38.320 like a three sixty every few minutes, because we're also 1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:39.920 seeing a lot of fives try and they're probably the 1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:42.639 most tracks we've seen. And I was thinking, like, we've 1:31:42.680 --> 1:31:45.040 got these this group that we've seen of three or four, 1:31:45.800 --> 1:31:47.200 and who knows what else is in here. So I 1:31:47.240 --> 1:31:49.840 was trying to keep heads up with what's going on. Around. Yeah. 1:31:49.840 --> 1:31:51.400 You had even said, like, we're just gonna all of 1:31:51.400 --> 1:31:53.160 a sudden have one staring at us. Yeah, when we're 1:31:53.160 --> 1:31:55.599 sneaking in there, and and what caught my attention, So again, 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:57.639 if you're thinking twelve o'clock, I happen to be looking 1:31:57.680 --> 1:32:00.840 towards like let's say, four thirty off over my right 1:32:00.920 --> 1:32:06.439 shoulder and spotted that sword like horn immediately dropped down 1:32:06.920 --> 1:32:08.880 without any question in my mind about whether or not 1:32:09.479 --> 1:32:12.360 that was an oryx, and I whispered to each guy 1:32:12.560 --> 1:32:16.160 individually and like, do not move, because that thing was 1:32:16.280 --> 1:32:19.519 dialed dialed in, and it went from what I saw 1:32:19.680 --> 1:32:23.160 was the like the parallel of one horn, and it 1:32:23.280 --> 1:32:25.479 turned and gave me the two horns. So I saw, 1:32:25.720 --> 1:32:28.519 you know, the the fact that the skull staring at 1:32:28.720 --> 1:32:30.600 is facing at us, and I never I could not 1:32:30.680 --> 1:32:32.200 see the face at that point. I could just see 1:32:32.200 --> 1:32:34.800 these two They kind of remind me like antennae off 1:32:34.920 --> 1:32:37.200 an insect um, And I could just see the tips 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:41.439 of those two sword like horns and could not see 1:32:41.479 --> 1:32:43.120 the face of the animal. And I'm just kind of 1:32:43.160 --> 1:32:45.880 like peeking up. So I tell you guys, like, you know, 1:32:45.960 --> 1:32:47.800 don't move. I've got Steve on my left with the 1:32:47.920 --> 1:32:51.160 rifle that seth on my right. We're all kind of 1:32:51.200 --> 1:32:56.600 packed in behind this decoy, and I start trying to 1:32:56.640 --> 1:32:59.040 get the shooting sticks set up. I've been carrying around 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:02.000 a set of shooting stick because that's one lesson we've 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:03.800 learned the hard way, you know, about trying to get 1:33:03.840 --> 1:33:06.240 steady from a standing position. You're always trying to work 1:33:06.280 --> 1:33:11.080 through all that vegetation. So my chief responsibility this trip 1:33:11.200 --> 1:33:14.600 has been chasing Steve around with the shooting sticks so 1:33:14.640 --> 1:33:16.880 they're at the ready. So I get the shooting sticks 1:33:16.920 --> 1:33:20.160 set up at a good height for Steve to be 1:33:20.400 --> 1:33:23.479 like in a kneeling position. He sneaks around behind me, 1:33:24.080 --> 1:33:26.840 peeks up over the top, and as we rise up, 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:30.320 you know, I'm thinking there's probably like a chance that 1:33:30.400 --> 1:33:32.080 the ORACX is still there because there's been quite a 1:33:32.120 --> 1:33:34.559 bit of commotion. And he's like, Hey, that Cole's got 1:33:34.640 --> 1:33:37.160 a gun. Yeah, that Cole's got a gun stick out 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:41.679 of its back. So so yeah, um, you know, I'm 1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:44.600 I'm thinking, I know, like exactly where this thing is. 1:33:44.680 --> 1:33:47.800 I don't initially relocate it, but within a couple of 1:33:47.880 --> 1:33:51.840 ticks there are two racs trotting from left to right. 1:33:53.080 --> 1:33:56.720 And at that point, in order to gain like a 1:33:56.800 --> 1:34:00.760 good shooting lane, we abandoned the decoy. We get up 1:34:00.800 --> 1:34:05.240 on our feet and we shifted to the right. What 1:34:05.320 --> 1:34:08.680 do you think like fifteen yards maybe, and we get 1:34:08.720 --> 1:34:13.439 this nice gap where the orcs are now stopped doing 1:34:13.479 --> 1:34:16.640 the ox. Look. But he did what he shouldn't have done. Yes, 1:34:16.720 --> 1:34:18.599 he did did what he should not have done. Stop 1:34:18.720 --> 1:34:21.760 the two hundred thirty yards and stared. Yea. The problem was, 1:34:21.880 --> 1:34:24.640 though the shooting sticks were set for the kneeling. The 1:34:24.680 --> 1:34:26.599 kneeling shot at that point, so we drop a couple 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:30.160 of the legs that still wasn't quite stable enough. We 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:35.000 got the third leg out, got him ranged. Steve took 1:34:35.040 --> 1:34:39.000 his time blouch And the thing was the thing that 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:43.240 was interesting about that is and I'm a ears plugged 1:34:43.320 --> 1:34:46.920 trying to do a good job of protecting my head. Yeah, 1:34:46.960 --> 1:34:49.960 you're asking me for a range of my ears. What's 1:34:49.960 --> 1:34:52.120 the range? What's the range? Well, let me ask you this, 1:34:52.200 --> 1:34:55.160 what turning back Carl's guy's ears like extra plugged? What? 1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:58.439 Let me ask you this, what range? Are you zeroed on? That? Rifall? 1:34:58.720 --> 1:35:02.160 I don't know how big they are? Zero? Okay? I'm 1:35:02.160 --> 1:35:04.120 looking at that thing like, there's no question you don't 1:35:04.120 --> 1:35:10.320 need to worry about race because the circums. Me being 1:35:10.360 --> 1:35:13.960 a novice and not having sort of like a very 1:35:14.120 --> 1:35:17.080 fixed mental image of how big they are and hearing 1:35:17.120 --> 1:35:21.040 all these stories of how big they are, I was like, 1:35:21.400 --> 1:35:25.559 if you had said three fifty, I wouldn't have been shocked. 1:35:26.479 --> 1:35:30.160 That's good to know. And it's a very disorienting landscape. 1:35:30.280 --> 1:35:35.160 It's it's like flat ass desert with brush in it 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:39.280 because an annually don't know how big it is. You 1:35:39.360 --> 1:35:43.600 can see it from like the brisk it up, and 1:35:43.680 --> 1:35:46.360 I just was you could have said three ye. Well, 1:35:46.479 --> 1:35:49.960 so my thought process in that situation, like in that instant, 1:35:50.000 --> 1:35:54.400 I was thinking, like, don't you you're not worrying about 1:35:54.439 --> 1:35:57.360 adjusting anything like that that animal in terms of where 1:35:57.360 --> 1:35:59.080 your point of aim would be if you're zero to 1:35:59.200 --> 1:36:03.920 two ish, that animal somewhere right in that ballpark. So 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:06.400 I'm just I would only be a minute. I would 1:36:06.439 --> 1:36:10.000 be a minute low, and may yeah, in hindsight maybe, 1:36:10.120 --> 1:36:12.200 but that was the thing I wanted to know. And 1:36:12.240 --> 1:36:14.640 so I noticed your your lips moving and I've got 1:36:14.760 --> 1:36:18.400 my ears like plugged with my fingertips and I unplugged 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:23.320 my ears. You're saying range, You're like perfect, and don't 1:36:23.400 --> 1:36:27.200 you know you imagine, don't adjust anything aimed that on. 1:36:28.000 --> 1:36:31.520 So I've got my ears like plug plugged, like fingertips 1:36:31.600 --> 1:36:34.120 over those little ear flappers pushed way down in there. 1:36:34.920 --> 1:36:37.800 And when you pulled that trigger, the sound of the 1:36:37.920 --> 1:36:40.920 impact was what stands out in my mind. It was 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:45.559 such a distinctive whop. And and I wasn't exactly sure 1:36:45.600 --> 1:36:47.639 which of the two you might shoot at. The one 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:50.360 that you shot was the one I expected, but I 1:36:50.400 --> 1:36:54.960 thought you might shoot it either one potentially, and they 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:56.960 were close enough together that I saw one of them 1:36:57.040 --> 1:36:59.840 run away, So I wasn't certain, like which, you know, 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:02.200 what exactly had happened at that moment, but I definitely 1:37:02.280 --> 1:37:04.720 heard a very distinctive whop o. Our buds who were 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:07.360 back on the glass heard that. To you. I liked 1:37:07.560 --> 1:37:10.840 the whop, yeah, And I liked that only one ran 1:37:10.880 --> 1:37:13.479 away and there was a there was a big cloud 1:37:13.560 --> 1:37:16.280 of dust to like, instantly there was this pluma dust. 1:37:16.280 --> 1:37:18.400 I don't know if you saw that, but big brown 1:37:18.439 --> 1:37:23.439 pluma dust. And you know, we you were in the 1:37:23.560 --> 1:37:25.439 right mind space at that point because you're like we 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:26.960 need to get to where I can be ready for 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:29.680 a follow up shot. And I was sitting there with 1:37:29.760 --> 1:37:31.840 a good line where there were a couple of sort 1:37:31.880 --> 1:37:35.040 of like semidistinctive bushes lined up where I felt like 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:37.000 we could we could keep a good line to get 1:37:37.040 --> 1:37:38.439 in on that thing. But we kind of split up 1:37:38.439 --> 1:37:41.439 a little bit, worked our way into the area where 1:37:41.479 --> 1:37:45.000 we where we thought that orcs might be, and you 1:37:45.200 --> 1:37:49.200 very quickly identified the location and that animal had not 1:37:49.320 --> 1:37:52.040 taken a single step from the down going right down. 1:37:53.320 --> 1:37:55.800 We did shoot him in the neck, yes, because it 1:37:55.920 --> 1:37:58.960 was hard to tell. We were very uh yeah, I'm 1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:02.640 a little I'm little trigger shy. Well I think is 1:38:02.680 --> 1:38:04.880 that the right word liberal? With the follow up shot, 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:08.519 I mean the stories you hear like you we heard 1:38:08.520 --> 1:38:10.559 another one that day, Yeah, we did, and that's heart 1:38:11.479 --> 1:38:14.720 to another hunter. He wasn't hunt right now, but he 1:38:14.720 --> 1:38:17.479 hadn't hunted orcs in the past, and told another story. Yeah, 1:38:19.400 --> 1:38:21.519 you want me to recount that. The guy was talking 1:38:21.560 --> 1:38:25.320 about being out with his his so called friend and 1:38:25.680 --> 1:38:29.439 knocking an oorcs down. There's stop being friends over. I 1:38:29.479 --> 1:38:32.200 don't blame the guy, man um, And I'm sort of 1:38:32.240 --> 1:38:34.760 haunted by the situation with my buddy too, and I 1:38:34.800 --> 1:38:36.680 can I'll tell that very quickly as well. But the 1:38:36.760 --> 1:38:39.559 situation the guy told us was he shoots an OORX, 1:38:39.600 --> 1:38:42.200 the orix is on the ground. They walk in and 1:38:42.240 --> 1:38:44.160 they're trying to determine whether or not a follow up 1:38:44.200 --> 1:38:48.559 follow up shot is necessary, and his friend unexpectedly decides 1:38:48.600 --> 1:38:50.880 the best course of action is to throw a stick 1:38:51.160 --> 1:38:54.200 at the downed ox. No, the guy wanted to shoot it. Yeah, 1:38:54.240 --> 1:38:56.000 he's he's like, maybe we should take a following and 1:38:56.000 --> 1:38:58.560 he said, no, don't, let's not shot it's dead. And 1:38:58.600 --> 1:39:00.760 instead he chucks a stick at the down ORIX, at 1:39:00.760 --> 1:39:03.240 which point the OORCX jumps to its feet and runs 1:39:03.280 --> 1:39:06.920 to the horizon again. And just real quick while around 1:39:06.960 --> 1:39:10.120 the topic, I've got one of my dearest hunting buddies, 1:39:10.760 --> 1:39:13.320 um guy named Ryan, who we were out on his 1:39:13.400 --> 1:39:17.360 off range orics hunt and we worked hard, we suffered together, 1:39:17.560 --> 1:39:21.960 we earned a shot opportunity where he hit an orax 1:39:22.040 --> 1:39:24.240 knocked it off its feet, and we were both so 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:28.479 elated and so rookie in our rax experience that we're 1:39:28.520 --> 1:39:31.559 standing there, you know, just like giddy, looking at each 1:39:31.600 --> 1:39:34.240 other like yeah, yeah, and the orax is laying there 1:39:34.920 --> 1:39:37.840 and the next thing, you know, the thing kicks its 1:39:37.920 --> 1:39:41.519 feet back under itself and just gallops to the horizon. 1:39:42.160 --> 1:39:43.840 And when we can never to be seen again, we 1:39:43.840 --> 1:39:45.679 went down there, found a couple little spots of blood 1:39:46.120 --> 1:39:48.880 and that oracs. I mean, we followed it, Like you said, 1:39:48.920 --> 1:39:51.800 the tracking conditions, you can basically walk at a fast walk, 1:39:52.320 --> 1:39:55.200 and we followed it for miles up and over hill 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:58.960 after hill, and it never even slowed down. So there, Yeah, 1:39:59.400 --> 1:40:03.160 the idea of being liberal with follow up shots makes sense. 1:40:03.640 --> 1:40:05.519 And when I got around to where I could see 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:09.519 what what was the exit point of your shot, it 1:40:09.640 --> 1:40:11.080 was up at the base of the neck, So you'd 1:40:11.120 --> 1:40:13.920 made it. You'd made a solid shot on that oorcs. 1:40:13.920 --> 1:40:15.920 And I do not believe that ORCS would have gone anywhere. 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:18.479 But when I saw the hole at the base of 1:40:18.560 --> 1:40:21.439 its neck, and the fact that you know, the oracs 1:40:21.479 --> 1:40:23.760 was still breathing a little bit, you could have could 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:26.120 have been stunned from the load of the process. When 1:40:26.120 --> 1:40:28.160 I saw that hole on the neck, I just said, 1:40:28.600 --> 1:40:30.640 shoot it again. And we went back and forth, I 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:33.760 think three different times. We're like, really, like, shoot it again, 1:40:34.160 --> 1:40:37.200 just just be safe. And that's that follow up shot 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:39.519 you took it didn't do a ton of meat extra 1:40:39.560 --> 1:40:43.240 meat damage. Yeah, and so I feel like a shot 1:40:43.280 --> 1:40:44.840 in the neck. Then for a minute was scared that 1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:49.080 I just blew the horn off, Carlton. It doesn't matter. 1:40:49.760 --> 1:40:51.840 I did say that, and I stand and I stand 1:40:51.880 --> 1:40:55.200 by that because also was like one of those horns. Yeah, 1:40:55.360 --> 1:40:56.720 that was one of That was one of the most 1:40:57.000 --> 1:40:59.920 sickening experiences with with my buddy Ryan. And I take 1:41:00.040 --> 1:41:01.880 responsibility for that because I should have just said, like, 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:05.040 you know, the same thing I said you was chamber 1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:07.599 around and just keep your cross hairs on that thing, 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:10.360 and if there is any question in your mind about 1:41:10.360 --> 1:41:12.519 whether it may or may not get up, like if 1:41:12.560 --> 1:41:17.280 it blinks wrong, take a fill up shot. We spoke 1:41:17.400 --> 1:41:23.000 to a guide who expressed to us that the glory 1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:30.160 days of off range or funning in New Mexico are waning. 1:41:32.560 --> 1:41:37.160 That is getting harder. You don't have the big ones 1:41:37.200 --> 1:41:42.920 around anymore, and it is like they're with they're I mean, 1:41:43.080 --> 1:41:44.320 you gotta think it is it fair to say that 1:41:44.320 --> 1:41:46.080 they're kind of whittling away at them. I mean, you 1:41:46.160 --> 1:41:51.320 just read the numbers. There's a thousand fewer and when 1:41:51.360 --> 1:41:53.960 we're only talk about four or five thousand thousands a lot. 1:41:54.400 --> 1:41:57.000 But we're still over the objective, right. I'm not saying 1:41:57.040 --> 1:41:59.439 we're not objective. I'm saying that the good old days 1:41:59.640 --> 1:42:03.559 are waning. I mean, I, for one, I can't speak 1:42:03.600 --> 1:42:06.000 to the good old days because I I wasn't fortunate 1:42:06.080 --> 1:42:09.240 enough to hunt at those times. But the hunts that 1:42:09.320 --> 1:42:12.240 I've been fortunate to be on, you know, we've we've 1:42:12.320 --> 1:42:14.960 turned up ricks and I can't tell you it's a 1:42:15.000 --> 1:42:16.920 lot of rics, it's a little orics. I don't know 1:42:17.000 --> 1:42:21.439 how to you know, quantify that to past experiences in 1:42:21.520 --> 1:42:25.439 the nineties. But I think, you know, um, the direction 1:42:25.600 --> 1:42:30.479 of of you know, the way the population is being managed. 1:42:30.560 --> 1:42:33.240 They wanted to be at a lower target rate. Um. 1:42:33.640 --> 1:42:36.760 But I think the hunting is good still. You know, 1:42:36.840 --> 1:42:40.760 I would find it hard to believe that it's dwindling 1:42:40.840 --> 1:42:44.160 down to the expectations that we might have gotten from 1:42:44.400 --> 1:42:48.719 the individual. Yeah. Well, let's say you had two billion 1:42:48.800 --> 1:42:51.759 dollars and then all of a sudden you had one billion, 1:42:52.240 --> 1:42:57.240 and I observed, man, you have less money. You would 1:42:57.240 --> 1:43:00.680 then be like, but a billion is a lot, Like, yes, 1:43:01.720 --> 1:43:05.880 but you have less. That's all I'm getting at I'm 1:43:05.920 --> 1:43:07.600 not saying it's bad. I'm just saying he seemed to 1:43:07.680 --> 1:43:09.320 think that he used to be like why am bam? 1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:12.479 Maybe that's not even true. There is like a real 1:43:12.560 --> 1:43:17.960 good old days problem that hunters, and I think, you know, 1:43:18.640 --> 1:43:22.679 it might have been as simple as like everyone remembers. Okay, 1:43:23.040 --> 1:43:25.160 just me now, I'm thinking back to the last Turkey season. 1:43:25.280 --> 1:43:27.479 In my mind, all I did was called back and 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:32.080 forth at hot gobblers. How much does that happen a 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:36.320 couple of times? But in my head, it's like, dude, right, 1:43:37.280 --> 1:43:39.840 you know, you forget about all that, like the days 1:43:39.960 --> 1:43:42.400 nothing happens and you might as like turkey on, Oh yeah, 1:43:42.439 --> 1:43:47.240 it's great man working, hot working, you know, so whatever, Uh, 1:43:48.000 --> 1:43:49.920 it might just be his you know, And he wouldn't 1:43:49.920 --> 1:43:51.479 be the first guy to tell you that things used 1:43:51.479 --> 1:43:52.840 to be good. Yeah, I mean, and you know, he 1:43:52.920 --> 1:43:54.960 spent a lot of time hunting in those good old days, 1:43:54.960 --> 1:43:57.479 and I'm sure a lot of has changed since then 1:43:57.560 --> 1:44:00.479 as far as tag allocation and pressure and those types 1:44:00.520 --> 1:44:02.240 of things that could be you know, there could be 1:44:02.280 --> 1:44:05.680 many more contributing factors to you know, maybe that that 1:44:05.840 --> 1:44:10.000 dwindling down of the of the experience and I've I've 1:44:10.080 --> 1:44:13.519 never looked at those data, but you know, we do 1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:18.960 post harvest success data that includes because so like you'll 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:23.000 have to report on this harvest and you know, identify 1:44:23.080 --> 1:44:24.840 the sex of the animal that you killed. I don't 1:44:24.920 --> 1:44:27.680 think they'll ask you anything about the horns, although I 1:44:27.760 --> 1:44:30.960 can't recall, but they will ask you how many days 1:44:31.000 --> 1:44:33.840 did you hunt, so you could I mean from a 1:44:34.200 --> 1:44:37.439 quality of I'm not talking about necessarily from the number 1:44:37.479 --> 1:44:41.400 of animals and the population standpoint, but if that's a 1:44:41.479 --> 1:44:44.680 corollary to the quality of the hunting, I mean, you know, 1:44:45.000 --> 1:44:47.360 the good old days, you could look at those data 1:44:48.120 --> 1:44:51.559 and ask how many you know, what percentage of people 1:44:51.560 --> 1:44:54.080 are being successful, and how long is it taking them 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:58.200 to be successful. So that information exists so you can 1:44:58.240 --> 1:45:03.040 find us all out and the range on range hunts, uh, 1:45:03.240 --> 1:45:06.599 they do record the length of the horns on the animals, 1:45:07.600 --> 1:45:09.000 so you can see if there was a Yeah, you 1:45:09.040 --> 1:45:11.280 can see if there was a drift there, right, So 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:14.360 you know, maybe it wouldn't tell you anything about off 1:45:14.479 --> 1:45:19.880 range although I think I think the animals that you 1:45:20.080 --> 1:45:24.599 see on an off range hunt, many of them also 1:45:24.720 --> 1:45:27.639 spend a lot of time on the range. I don't 1:45:27.680 --> 1:45:31.479 think they have I don't know what they're each other 1:45:31.560 --> 1:45:33.160 up and do. Okay, you guys are off range, we're 1:45:33.160 --> 1:45:35.479 around range. I don't get a sense that there's like 1:45:35.800 --> 1:45:39.760 a really high level of you know, fidelity to a 1:45:39.880 --> 1:45:42.599 particular area. It's just like or show up in one 1:45:42.640 --> 1:45:44.320 place and if they don't get bumped, they hang out 1:45:44.320 --> 1:45:47.120 around there for a while. Yeah, when then they might 1:45:47.200 --> 1:45:49.479 just all take off walking and go, you know, ten 1:45:49.560 --> 1:45:52.200 miles back onto the range or wherever. Yeah, I'm not 1:45:52.320 --> 1:45:54.879 like bad mouth and experience. I mean, we had interact 1:45:55.040 --> 1:45:56.720 except for the day we got here and only went 1:45:56.760 --> 1:46:03.680 out in the afternoon, we had interactions and like opportunities. Yeah, 1:46:03.720 --> 1:46:05.760 and I we even had an opportunity to day we 1:46:05.800 --> 1:46:09.479 got here right at dark that we ran out of daylight. 1:46:09.880 --> 1:46:11.599 We found one. It was like you could have walked 1:46:11.600 --> 1:46:16.280 there anyways. Multiple opportunities after that too. So like not 1:46:16.439 --> 1:46:18.720 bad mouth in it. I'm just I'm just sharing a 1:46:18.880 --> 1:46:20.720 thing that a guy said, and take it for what 1:46:20.800 --> 1:46:22.760 it take it for what it's working. I was trying 1:46:22.760 --> 1:46:25.400 to sort of offer the approach that if some you know, 1:46:25.520 --> 1:46:28.280 that if if we were really interested in that question, 1:46:28.520 --> 1:46:34.000 you could find the information is publicly available, so we 1:46:34.120 --> 1:46:38.640 had opportunities every day. Got one the morning of our 1:46:38.720 --> 1:46:43.080 fourth day. You could say, basically, this is gonna sound 1:46:43.120 --> 1:46:45.240 like you're giving away something and to something you can find, 1:46:45.400 --> 1:46:48.439 Like the most basic Internet search would reveal to you 1:46:49.439 --> 1:46:51.800 that you want to hunt within I don't know, ten 1:46:51.920 --> 1:46:57.479 twelve miles of the missile range across the northern and 1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:01.679 western sides. And if you think I'm narrowing it down, 1:47:01.880 --> 1:47:06.720 I'm talking one hundred and eighty linear miles of a 1:47:06.840 --> 1:47:11.400 ten mile wide stretch of ground. So yeah, plenty of 1:47:11.439 --> 1:47:13.559 place on Yeah, in the east side too, I mean 1:47:13.720 --> 1:47:17.000 right seven when there's some story somebody reached out through 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:20.200 some guy sent me a screenshot of an on of 1:47:20.400 --> 1:47:22.479 on X. I not had to like go on on 1:47:22.720 --> 1:47:24.000 X and kind of figure out where it was, but 1:47:24.080 --> 1:47:27.720 it was on the east side. He said, look here 1:47:27.760 --> 1:47:31.600 if you're struggling to yeah, okay, so maybe there is 1:47:33.439 --> 1:47:42.439 one thirty two sixty nine linear miles of a ten 1:47:42.560 --> 1:47:46.680 mile wide strip. That's my hot tip by looking at 1:47:46.720 --> 1:47:48.639 on X. So it seems that that east side there's 1:47:48.680 --> 1:47:51.960 not as much ground the hunt well, it seems to 1:47:52.000 --> 1:47:54.640 be a little bit more checkerboarded um, but you know, 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.640 they've they've seen him, you know, really far north to 1:47:57.800 --> 1:47:59.880 they've seen him you know south as well, So that 1:48:00.040 --> 1:48:02.680 three sixty degrees around there. I think that's a that's 1:48:02.760 --> 1:48:06.080 really good. My hot tip would be like five to 1:48:06.160 --> 1:48:09.880 seven miles around the entire perimeter of the missile range, 1:48:10.280 --> 1:48:13.760 the potential bump into them and there is an enormous 1:48:14.040 --> 1:48:19.320 amount of BLM lamb. Yeah, there is no need millions 1:48:19.360 --> 1:48:22.840 of acres. There is no need to feel like, you know, 1:48:22.960 --> 1:48:30.360 you don't have spots, I mean state BLM planning of space. 1:48:31.040 --> 1:48:34.240 That's right. Another hot tip is they're pretty serious about 1:48:34.240 --> 1:48:38.200 that missile range boundary. So having having on X you know, 1:48:38.720 --> 1:48:42.920 or or some other mapping app to, so you're confident 1:48:43.000 --> 1:48:45.320 where it is. It's it's pretty well marked. But yeah, 1:48:45.439 --> 1:48:47.519 that's so bad that I leaned on it one time. 1:48:47.680 --> 1:48:51.400 I leaned on it and and quickly withdrew my fingers, 1:48:51.600 --> 1:48:54.120 realizing that that my fingers had wrapped around the barbed 1:48:54.120 --> 1:49:00.360 wire into it. Probably felt they're probably reading my right 1:49:00.400 --> 1:49:02.680 now with some kind of contraption. But and of course 1:49:02.720 --> 1:49:06.040 there are some private in holdings around, some ranch in holdings, 1:49:06.320 --> 1:49:09.400 you know, and amongst a lot of BLM and state lands, 1:49:09.439 --> 1:49:12.000 and you got to be careful about as well. I 1:49:12.080 --> 1:49:13.640 think one of the biggest tips I can give to 1:49:13.680 --> 1:49:15.679 folks that may be lucky enough to draw that tag 1:49:15.880 --> 1:49:19.839 is not only do you get a four wheel drive vehicle, 1:49:20.960 --> 1:49:24.640 you know, I mean from get a tune up. You know, 1:49:24.800 --> 1:49:26.800 from a map it looks like you can get from 1:49:26.840 --> 1:49:29.559 point A to point B very easily, But once you're 1:49:29.560 --> 1:49:32.080 there on the landscape, you'll quickly understand that, you know, 1:49:32.280 --> 1:49:34.679 time really erodes those roads in a in a quick 1:49:35.120 --> 1:49:38.680 thunderstorm can really have a lasting impact. Flash flooding is 1:49:38.800 --> 1:49:41.439 serious issues, absolutely, especially this time you're in June. You 1:49:41.520 --> 1:49:43.840 got monsoons and they just like make the rivers turn 1:49:43.880 --> 1:49:47.960 into the roads turned into rivers. Right, These guys travel 1:49:48.160 --> 1:49:55.200 with um lots of water, twenty extra twenty gallons of 1:49:55.280 --> 1:50:01.400 fuel and fuel cans, all your repair stuff, shovels and whatnot. 1:50:02.680 --> 1:50:05.280 And then you do want to have like your your 1:50:05.560 --> 1:50:07.639 camp gear and just keep your stuff in your truck 1:50:09.000 --> 1:50:11.200 so you can roll from Yeah, and I have an 1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:16.960 extra spare tire, and he knowed that he's running ten 1:50:17.080 --> 1:50:28.000 ply kevlar. Those those mesquite thorns. Well, well, your tiresias 1:50:28.080 --> 1:50:33.360 and tread side, like good solid tires are are a 1:50:33.600 --> 1:50:37.240 huge advantage. Yeah, my buddy who built that Safari rack. 1:50:37.960 --> 1:50:39.880 One time we were hunting and he popped the tire, 1:50:40.360 --> 1:50:42.680 put the spare tire on a couple hundred down. A 1:50:42.680 --> 1:50:44.640 couple hundred yards down the road. He started hearing some 1:50:44.800 --> 1:50:47.040 air and sure enough he popped that that same tire 1:50:47.080 --> 1:50:51.000 that we just replaced, so multiple spars. We were out 1:50:51.040 --> 1:50:52.439 of tires and we had to make a trip back 1:50:52.479 --> 1:50:54.120 into town to get those tire space. I also have 1:50:54.160 --> 1:50:56.640 an air compressor and so like a little we've got 1:50:56.720 --> 1:50:59.760 two air compressor plug all of it. You gotta be 1:51:00.200 --> 1:51:02.160 if you rig up like that, if you rig up, 1:51:02.200 --> 1:51:07.679 we got a good BAA truck and rig up with fuel, water, food, 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:11.360 camp gear. I got one more for you. Okay. If 1:51:11.400 --> 1:51:14.360 we were to count up the number of full coolers 1:51:14.400 --> 1:51:17.040 of ice that we've been here, that's how I just think, man, 1:51:17.080 --> 1:51:19.320 I forgot it's a hundred It's a hundred degrees in 1:51:19.360 --> 1:51:21.920 the daytime. We probably have at least half a dozen 1:51:21.960 --> 1:51:24.360 coolers with us. Some of them are giant that we 1:51:24.479 --> 1:51:28.200 had hundreds of pounds, Like we probably had three hundred 1:51:28.200 --> 1:51:31.240 pounds of ice. I had to fifty in my head. No, 1:51:31.439 --> 1:51:35.400 but yeah, I think three. I forgot that detail because 1:51:35.400 --> 1:51:39.160 you gotta picture putting, uh at the top end, you 1:51:39.200 --> 1:51:42.280 gotta picture of putting a four hundred fifty pound bowl 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:45.519 parted out, and if you want to keep the hide 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:49.080 or sweet that you need to be able to ice 1:51:49.160 --> 1:51:51.559 that thing because you're a long way from any kind 1:51:51.600 --> 1:51:56.960 of town and your long way from replenishing ice, and 1:51:57.080 --> 1:52:01.000 so you need massive amounts of ice and cool because 1:52:01.080 --> 1:52:04.200 it's a hundred degrees really right, it's it's I mean 1:52:04.520 --> 1:52:06.840 over a lot of this hunt. It was over a 1:52:06.960 --> 1:52:08.599 hundred degrees in the middle of the day. So if 1:52:08.640 --> 1:52:12.439 you shoot one at eleven o'clock, you gotta get that 1:52:12.640 --> 1:52:15.479 thing cool down. Yeah, you're just not gonna be like 1:52:15.520 --> 1:52:16.840 if you got to carry it a mile or two 1:52:18.280 --> 1:52:20.960 and then like get in your truck and then driving too, 1:52:21.560 --> 1:52:25.240 you're screwed, right, Like the bull you killed, you know, 1:52:25.880 --> 1:52:29.240 we uh, Jeremy and I again and hung back the 1:52:29.600 --> 1:52:31.640 spot and you guys went in and killed him, and 1:52:31.760 --> 1:52:35.400 then you know, normally it would have like you guys 1:52:35.640 --> 1:52:37.720 took a couple of quick photos, I would imagine, and 1:52:37.760 --> 1:52:40.200 then you know, until we were able to make our 1:52:40.280 --> 1:52:43.960 way there. You guys were, you know, in the middle 1:52:44.040 --> 1:52:47.240 of it of getting that animal apart, and you know, 1:52:48.760 --> 1:52:51.320 maybe would have been a little offended in some situations, 1:52:51.360 --> 1:52:52.639 like oh, I would have liked to get a picture 1:52:52.640 --> 1:52:55.360 of the animal, Like not like that thought never crossed 1:52:55.400 --> 1:52:58.240 my mind, Like, no, the you just got to get 1:52:58.320 --> 1:53:03.040 to work and get that thing taken down. It's alarmingly warm. Yeah, 1:53:03.160 --> 1:53:05.240 I mean those quarters were off, and it's like put 1:53:05.320 --> 1:53:07.599 him in the bag, let's go, let's take them. As 1:53:07.680 --> 1:53:12.280 Carl was gutting that thing, just the the stomach, like 1:53:12.560 --> 1:53:15.960 second by second, it seemed like it was just growing. Yeah, 1:53:16.240 --> 1:53:20.240 like in my hands. Yeah. Times the time Jeremy had 1:53:20.240 --> 1:53:23.479 a cape spoiling two hours, right, yeah, the the ORCX. 1:53:23.520 --> 1:53:26.519 I was lucky enough to harvest in August within a 1:53:26.640 --> 1:53:28.840 couple of hours. And it was nowhere near as hot 1:53:28.920 --> 1:53:31.439 as it was when we were able to. Yeah, the 1:53:31.520 --> 1:53:33.720 hair was already slipping, you know. I I took the 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:35.920 cape home and I wanted to donate it to a 1:53:36.040 --> 1:53:38.479 tax it or missed. And I called him and he said, 1:53:38.520 --> 1:53:40.080 do me a favor and go ahead and take a 1:53:40.120 --> 1:53:41.719 clump of that hair and just give it a pool. 1:53:42.080 --> 1:53:43.719 And I pulled it, and I was I was pulling 1:53:43.760 --> 1:53:47.400 off handfuls of hair off that cape hours. Oh yeah. 1:53:47.439 --> 1:53:48.840 He was like, how long when did you kill When 1:53:48.840 --> 1:53:51.400 did you kill it? I said about three thirty it 1:53:51.560 --> 1:53:54.760 was you know, four, five thirty six, somewhere around there. 1:53:54.800 --> 1:53:56.240 He said, go ahead and just pull some hair. I 1:53:56.320 --> 1:53:58.040 pulled it in. He's like, is it coming off? I 1:53:58.120 --> 1:54:01.000 said yeah, He's like, throw it away. We took a 1:54:01.120 --> 1:54:05.759 giant cooler, put sixty pounds of ice in the cooler 1:54:05.920 --> 1:54:08.920 and then put down a contractor bag and then laid 1:54:09.000 --> 1:54:16.120 the hide meat side down, kind of loosely folded packs 1:54:16.240 --> 1:54:18.280 all and like, you know, you hear a lot of 1:54:18.280 --> 1:54:22.240 people say, oh, oh, hesitatedn't get this. You're able to say, like, 1:54:22.320 --> 1:54:25.080 don't put meat and water and sure when in the 1:54:25.200 --> 1:54:29.000 perfect world, like if you go into a slaughterhouse, they 1:54:29.040 --> 1:54:31.640 don't put well, they cool they cool poultry as we 1:54:31.680 --> 1:54:35.800 now know, and ice baths. But um, and like, no 1:54:35.840 --> 1:54:37.680 one in the slaughterhouse puts meat in the water to 1:54:37.760 --> 1:54:40.320 cool it off. But I've found it in really hot 1:54:40.400 --> 1:54:44.120 places hunters don't hesitate to put meat in the water 1:54:44.520 --> 1:54:48.400 because wet meat is better than rotten meat. One in Hawaii, 1:54:49.040 --> 1:54:53.560 everything goes into ice water to take a shipload of ice, 1:54:53.760 --> 1:54:57.040 put water on it, submerge it, because it's like, well, 1:54:58.080 --> 1:55:01.360 I don't like it when it's rotten, I'll take wet. 1:55:01.880 --> 1:55:03.920 I'm just thinking of us load in our water bottles 1:55:03.960 --> 1:55:05.560 with ice. I mean, you would fill an analogy and 1:55:05.600 --> 1:55:07.800 container full of ice and by the time that sucker 1:55:07.880 --> 1:55:11.240 hits your lips, it was already all melted. Uh. And 1:55:11.320 --> 1:55:14.440 the meats highly regarded. Oh man, yeah, it seems like 1:55:14.600 --> 1:55:15.920 you know, you know, a lot of these are good. 1:55:15.960 --> 1:55:18.080 But he says they're no good, like people like oh 1:55:18.200 --> 1:55:21.240 big Buck Milder. I love him, my wife likes him. 1:55:21.320 --> 1:55:23.600 Ever likes him, but some people like to ship talk him. 1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:29.280 But Orcs everybody says it's good. Orcs acts as dear 1:55:29.560 --> 1:55:34.400 seek a deer. Everybody says it's good. Yeah. It would 1:55:34.440 --> 1:55:36.520 be like a really common reaction, Like if you ask 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:38.160 a non hunter in New Mexico, like, oh, do you 1:55:38.280 --> 1:55:40.640 like wow game meat, they'd be like, I like Orcs. 1:55:42.440 --> 1:55:45.520 It's I mean, that's it's got that good of a reputation. 1:55:46.800 --> 1:55:51.480 I think it's more. I think it's just really mild. Yeah, 1:55:51.480 --> 1:55:54.960 I wouldn't say. I mean, I'm glad you said that, 1:55:55.000 --> 1:55:57.000 because I would not say it's my favorite for that 1:55:57.200 --> 1:55:59.720 very reason. I feel like it's a little bit too mild. 1:55:59.760 --> 1:56:02.520 I think that's why I like milder. I like, you know, 1:56:02.600 --> 1:56:06.360 I don't mind a robust flavor. Yeah, I mean, I 1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:10.480 you know, people like to say, you know, people like 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:14.320 talk about wild game being organic. Yeah, and most of 1:56:14.480 --> 1:56:16.440 the vast majority of wild game eating this country is 1:56:16.480 --> 1:56:22.120 not organic, right, um or no way, they're not organic. 1:56:23.720 --> 1:56:26.200 What would be a thing that would make them not organic? 1:56:26.680 --> 1:56:28.520 If they got into maybe if they got into some 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:30.880 of that one of those cattle spots where there's some 1:56:30.960 --> 1:56:33.320 kind of supplemental out there that could be But I 1:56:33.640 --> 1:56:35.640 agree with your point. But there there may be the 1:56:35.680 --> 1:56:37.840 occasional exception. And the ones that are on the missile 1:56:37.960 --> 1:56:41.720 range probably probably almost to the individual, because they don't 1:56:41.720 --> 1:56:44.320 graze any livestock on the range, right, not the my knowledge. 1:56:45.480 --> 1:56:53.160 So organic, yep, you're dark your mallard, Nope, your white 1:56:53.200 --> 1:57:00.520 tail probably not. But these are organic ORCS certified yep. 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:05.960 Uh what else? Man? Fill me in? And we missed well, 1:57:06.320 --> 1:57:08.640 I think on that logistics piece. You know, we we 1:57:08.920 --> 1:57:12.240 talked a lot about ice just now. Um, and the 1:57:12.360 --> 1:57:15.200 fact that Now, I think this kind of hunt really 1:57:15.520 --> 1:57:20.800 lends itself to teamwork in terms of the hunt itself, 1:57:20.880 --> 1:57:23.920 but also logistically, I think going out into that country 1:57:23.960 --> 1:57:26.320 with a single vehicle, you know, I would put like 1:57:27.080 --> 1:57:30.240 I would put like an extra vehicle as a valuable 1:57:30.280 --> 1:57:32.240 pieces car because if you get buried, like we've all 1:57:32.280 --> 1:57:35.280 got toe straps and there's just peace of mind. Like 1:57:35.400 --> 1:57:36.880 some of the stuff that we were driving over. There 1:57:36.920 --> 1:57:38.800 was some places I thought, I thought that one night 1:57:38.840 --> 1:57:40.640 that Jeremy's truck was going to tip over in that 1:57:40.840 --> 1:57:44.200 in that washout man, And if something like that happens 1:57:44.240 --> 1:57:46.000 in your way, the heck back in here. And there's 1:57:46.040 --> 1:57:49.760 some places where phone services spotty and you cannot you 1:57:49.840 --> 1:57:55.120 cannot exaggerate the vastness of the landscape. So having an 1:57:55.200 --> 1:57:58.560 extra vehicle I think is really smart. And then also 1:57:59.080 --> 1:58:01.800 you know, just having another person in case something goes wrong. 1:58:01.880 --> 1:58:05.320 You know, there's snakes, it's hot, there's all kinds of 1:58:05.360 --> 1:58:08.160 stuff that you know might happen from a health and 1:58:08.240 --> 1:58:12.080 well being perspective. So I would suggest not doing the 1:58:12.160 --> 1:58:15.800 hunt solo would be my other piece of advice. Yeah, 1:58:15.840 --> 1:58:19.560 but if you rigged up properly, two rigs couple buddies 1:58:20.560 --> 1:58:23.320 outfit them all the way. You could let me talk 1:58:23.320 --> 1:58:25.360 about the thing being a hundred thirty miles north south. 1:58:25.920 --> 1:58:31.800 You could finagle your way just on washed out two 1:58:31.880 --> 1:58:37.160 tracks and whatnot. Fonnago your way for days, sitting up 1:58:37.160 --> 1:58:38.920 on top of the top or whatever the hell you're doing, 1:58:39.240 --> 1:58:42.160 stopping at every high spot to look and just spend 1:58:42.240 --> 1:58:46.880 your time. Yep, And it might be worth noting. You 1:58:46.920 --> 1:58:49.360 know somebody who has no idea what they'd be. You 1:58:49.440 --> 1:58:51.760 know what this landscape is like in the vegetation, Like 1:58:52.840 --> 1:58:56.560 if you bring a brand new six pick up down here, 1:58:56.760 --> 1:59:01.280 you may end up sending Stephen angry email. Get Arizona 1:59:01.320 --> 1:59:05.120 Arizona pins drives. You just you get scratches. It's it's 1:59:05.200 --> 1:59:09.080 real good to have a capable truck that's already broken in, 1:59:09.320 --> 1:59:12.040 broken in and got a few dance and scratches because 1:59:12.080 --> 1:59:13.920 you're gonna yeah, you guys took a fence when I 1:59:13.960 --> 1:59:18.400 call them Arizona pins drivers, right. Um, The best thing 1:59:18.440 --> 1:59:20.640 I heard lately is what was the what was the rifle? 1:59:20.800 --> 1:59:29.800 We were talking about their day, those old Remington, those Remingtons, 1:59:29.800 --> 1:59:32.480 slide action rifles. What were those? The Amash machine guns. 1:59:32.640 --> 1:59:37.800 They're like seven seven six seven sixties and seventies, remember 1:59:37.840 --> 1:59:40.320 guys have like if you were when we were kids, man, 1:59:40.440 --> 1:59:43.120 like you know, yeah, like a lot of people like 1:59:43.160 --> 1:59:45.560 your hand me down was the thirty thirty, right or whatever. 1:59:46.080 --> 1:59:47.800 But the thing to get was if you could get 1:59:47.840 --> 1:59:51.720 one of those Remingtons slide action rifles and then get 1:59:51.760 --> 1:59:54.360 the look through mount Oh yeah, so you had the 1:59:54.440 --> 1:59:58.320 iron sight corn sight on the bottom and then like 1:59:58.440 --> 2:00:00.520 these like plastic mounts you can or through, and then 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:02.120 you had your scope on top. So it was like 2:00:02.200 --> 2:00:06.160 a brush gun and a field gun. Yeah, machine gun, man, 2:00:06.320 --> 2:00:08.840 you get a lot of rounds down range quick. Yeah. 2:00:09.080 --> 2:00:11.560 Seth and I both grew up in Pennsylvania, and I 2:00:11.600 --> 2:00:13.760 don't think it's an exaggeration at all to say, like 2:00:13.880 --> 2:00:15.840 in in the heyday of our deer camp, when there 2:00:15.880 --> 2:00:19.640 were twenty plus guys there, at least fifty percent of 2:00:19.680 --> 2:00:23.360 the rifles that people were hunting with were slide pump 2:00:23.440 --> 2:00:29.680 action Remington rifles and the other we're lee reaction thirty. Yeah. 2:00:30.000 --> 2:00:32.600 I mean, you know, some guys were starting to hunt 2:00:32.760 --> 2:00:35.040 with bowl guns. I was old school. I had a 2:00:35.120 --> 2:00:37.800 third I had a Model thirty two Special with the 2:00:37.840 --> 2:00:41.600 peep site nice and had that reducer so as you 2:00:41.640 --> 2:00:43.720 always had to carry that reducer around in your pocket, 2:00:43.800 --> 2:00:45.880 you know. And um, in the morning you had to 2:00:45.920 --> 2:00:47.920 take the reducer out because it was too dark. But 2:00:48.000 --> 2:00:49.560 then once it got good light, you kind of like 2:00:49.600 --> 2:00:51.959 screw that reducer in because you get the extra accuracy. 2:00:52.000 --> 2:00:54.160 That started getting dust, you had to take the reducer 2:00:54.240 --> 2:00:56.440 back out. But I put some does down at that 2:00:57.160 --> 2:00:59.000 put down a buck or two that thirty two wins 2:00:59.040 --> 2:01:01.680 special is a good man. I was so stupid. I 2:01:01.760 --> 2:01:03.880 sold that thing and it was given to me. There's 2:01:03.920 --> 2:01:05.680 this guy one of my one of my mentors as 2:01:05.680 --> 2:01:07.480 a kid was the guy Eugene Grotors, and he had 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:10.280 he was in his eighties. He had a gun for 2:01:10.560 --> 2:01:12.080 he he made a point to have a gun for 2:01:12.120 --> 2:01:14.320 every year he'd been alive. And he kept him in 2:01:14.360 --> 2:01:16.640 these big overhead racts in his house. So his house 2:01:16.760 --> 2:01:19.680 was like the ceiling instead of a drop ceiling, it 2:01:19.800 --> 2:01:22.640 looked like a like what his like den area. It 2:01:22.680 --> 2:01:26.840 looked like a drop ceiling of firearms eighty three of 2:01:26.880 --> 2:01:32.760 them or whatever up there. And super generous, nice dude. Um. 2:01:34.120 --> 2:01:35.520 I remember he used to have like he was a 2:01:35.560 --> 2:01:37.440 big admirer of these are all World War two guys, 2:01:37.480 --> 2:01:38.720 you know. But he was a big admirer of like 2:01:38.840 --> 2:01:43.400 centerfolds from you know, like old whatever to hell Playboy 2:01:43.520 --> 2:01:46.960 precursors or Tiger magazine or whatever you know, like, and 2:01:47.040 --> 2:01:50.880 he had always decorated everything with these. And I remember 2:01:50.920 --> 2:01:53.600 being a little kid and wandering around there, you know, like, 2:01:53.760 --> 2:01:56.600 man might also look at this, sir, I can't really 2:01:56.640 --> 2:01:58.320 help not look at it. Oh my dad, don't catch 2:01:58.360 --> 2:02:02.080 me looking anyways. He had all his damn guns, and 2:02:03.200 --> 2:02:05.800 he was such a nice dude the way instead but 2:02:06.040 --> 2:02:12.400 but uh, he gave me a model. And instead of 2:02:12.440 --> 2:02:13.680 him saying like, I just want to give this to 2:02:13.720 --> 2:02:16.320 you as a nice guy, he presented it to me 2:02:16.880 --> 2:02:20.640 to be like I got to counting and realize that 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:24.720 I have an extra gun. Oh man, what a guy, 2:02:25.080 --> 2:02:27.560 and I like to have one for every year I'm alive, 2:02:27.640 --> 2:02:31.120 So please take this, and positioned it to me as 2:02:31.160 --> 2:02:33.040 a kid that I was doing him a favor by 2:02:33.120 --> 2:02:35.840 taking that gun. And then I took it shot a 2:02:35.880 --> 2:02:37.800 bunch of deer with it. I remember going out in 2:02:37.840 --> 2:02:39.720 the yard and someone filled the milk jug up full 2:02:39.760 --> 2:02:41.280 of water and put it out there at seventy five 2:02:41.360 --> 2:02:43.760 yards and hit the milk jug full of water and 2:02:43.840 --> 2:02:45.120 it was like that was like the test, you know, 2:02:45.200 --> 2:02:47.560 And I was like, it's a hunting gun. And then 2:02:47.720 --> 2:02:51.880 later UM sold it to a dude, the head of 2:02:52.400 --> 2:02:58.600 uh uh wood Stove a gunshot wood Stove shop sold 2:02:58.640 --> 2:03:00.680 it to him, and he gave me three hud bucks works. 2:03:00.760 --> 2:03:04.360 I wanted a trap and gunna those uh twenty two 2:03:06.600 --> 2:03:11.560 over and under and then later realized that I was 2:03:11.800 --> 2:03:17.440 grossly underpaid. Yeah for that model ninety four. My fault 2:03:18.680 --> 2:03:20.440 anytime you sell a gun later and I'm like, dude, 2:03:20.720 --> 2:03:22.640 I think because you forget what it's like to be 2:03:22.680 --> 2:03:25.640 out of money, and then you just think you're being stupid. 2:03:25.800 --> 2:03:28.320 But I'd like to have that thing back. I got 2:03:28.400 --> 2:03:32.080 something we forgot. God, well, it's still fresh in my mind. 2:03:32.200 --> 2:03:35.360 Carl mentioned snake that just happened with across the table 2:03:35.400 --> 2:03:39.680 a seth. I don't want to take your story from you. Yeah, 2:03:39.840 --> 2:03:43.880 be careful you step out here. We pulled up. I 2:03:43.960 --> 2:03:45.800 think we're just pulled up to a glass and spot. 2:03:47.440 --> 2:03:51.640 I swung the door open and stepped out and walked 2:03:51.680 --> 2:03:53.920 over between a bush and the door, between a bush 2:03:53.960 --> 2:03:58.160 and the doors, not very much space. And I walked 2:03:58.200 --> 2:04:01.280 over to Jeremy's truck was in front of us, and 2:04:01.640 --> 2:04:04.160 you know, we exchanged words and stuff, and I turned 2:04:04.200 --> 2:04:07.320 around to get back in Mike's truck, and right where 2:04:07.360 --> 2:04:11.520 I had stepped out is coiled up rattlesnake a little 2:04:11.560 --> 2:04:15.480 dish and a little dish. I think it was like 2:04:15.520 --> 2:04:17.680 an old cattle track or something that just you know, 2:04:17.800 --> 2:04:19.960 got washed out and just made his perfect little dish. 2:04:20.920 --> 2:04:24.760 And uh yeah, I stepped inches from it. I mean, 2:04:24.840 --> 2:04:28.760 it really would be difficult to step closer to the 2:04:28.840 --> 2:04:33.600 snake without actually stepping. I got a video, did you. 2:04:33.680 --> 2:04:35.320 I put a video on my If you go to 2:04:35.400 --> 2:04:42.320 Instagram at Stephen Ronella, Yeah, is there one at Signs 2:04:42.400 --> 2:04:44.760 Underscore West, there'll be photos of it. You should change 2:04:44.800 --> 2:04:46.600 your thing to SETH so people can find you, or 2:04:46.680 --> 2:04:51.120 at the flip Flop Flusher, Yeah, or at Seth. I 2:04:51.200 --> 2:04:53.760 gotta talk to who would know I would who would 2:04:53.840 --> 2:04:55.560 know how to look you up. I want to talk 2:04:55.680 --> 2:04:57.600 to the even just type my name and it comes up. 2:04:58.240 --> 2:05:00.880 I want to talk to someone about about like if 2:05:00.960 --> 2:05:04.960 that makes a difference by changing your Because Sessa takes 2:05:04.960 --> 2:05:08.600 a sense of photographer takes beautiful photographs. Thank you you're 2:05:08.600 --> 2:05:12.280 going there and follow him at Signs West signs underscore West. Yeah, 2:05:12.320 --> 2:05:17.200 so it's not his name, it's just signs West yea underscore. 2:05:17.800 --> 2:05:21.520 Maybe it needs updated. I think you need to update it. Um. 2:05:21.760 --> 2:05:26.000 One last thing another good satis m is uh tagged out. 2:05:26.720 --> 2:05:28.680 I'm gonna call this we should call this episode tug 2:05:28.720 --> 2:05:32.280 out because rather than saying we tagged out, Seth would 2:05:32.280 --> 2:05:35.920 say we tug out yea and scun it. I think 2:05:35.960 --> 2:05:40.640 that's a Pennsylvania thing. That's where I came out, talk out, 2:05:40.760 --> 2:05:44.280 tug out. We're all tug out, like I don't know 2:05:44.320 --> 2:05:47.040 that sounds that's perfectly normal to me. I'll tug out. 2:05:47.200 --> 2:05:50.120 I love it. I'll tug out. Okay, Jeremy, thank you. 2:05:50.600 --> 2:05:52.440 Well tell people how to find uh how do people go? 2:05:52.480 --> 2:05:54.200 If you want to look at the work you guys do, well, 2:05:54.280 --> 2:05:56.960 you can go to the National Wildlife Federation or NWF 2:05:57.080 --> 2:05:59.400 dot org. You know, from there that's a hunting friendly 2:05:59.440 --> 2:06:02.839 conservation absolutely yeah. You know, the National Wildlife Federation focuses 2:06:02.880 --> 2:06:04.760 on a lot of conservation issues. But one of the 2:06:04.840 --> 2:06:06.960 things that I and a lot of my you know, team, 2:06:07.040 --> 2:06:10.040 prides ourselves and doing are you know, conservation that's related 2:06:10.080 --> 2:06:12.560 to sportsmen and sports women, you know, advocating for things 2:06:12.640 --> 2:06:16.080 like Land Water Conservation Fund, the Great American Outdoors Ach, 2:06:16.160 --> 2:06:18.720 you know, access to for sportsmen and sports women of 2:06:18.760 --> 2:06:21.720 public lends a lot of those issues that we hear 2:06:21.760 --> 2:06:23.600 a lot about on this show. You know, the National 2:06:23.640 --> 2:06:26.360 Wildlife Federation and you know, the team that I am 2:06:26.480 --> 2:06:28.680 fortunate enough to work with, you know, really does a 2:06:28.800 --> 2:06:31.880 great job of, you know, working hard to protect these 2:06:32.080 --> 2:06:34.720 these traditions that we you know, value that allows us 2:06:34.760 --> 2:06:36.880 to be here talking about you know, and so folks 2:06:36.960 --> 2:06:39.040 want to learn more about as you know, the National 2:06:39.080 --> 2:06:42.280 Wildlife Federation itself is a nonprofit, but we're also made 2:06:42.360 --> 2:06:44.400 up of state affiliates. So you know, if you're in 2:06:44.480 --> 2:06:46.080 New Mexico and you draw an orange tag and you 2:06:46.120 --> 2:06:47.920 want a little bit more information, you can always go 2:06:48.040 --> 2:06:50.840 check out the New Mexican Wildlife Federation, but you know, 2:06:50.960 --> 2:06:53.120 go to NWF dot org and you can really start 2:06:53.200 --> 2:06:55.320 to see kind of all the different angles that we 2:06:55.640 --> 2:06:59.120 focus on in conservation and uh kind of start to 2:06:59.800 --> 2:07:02.040 you learn from there and kind of really divulge into 2:07:02.080 --> 2:07:04.720 the many different state you know affiliates that are also 2:07:04.800 --> 2:07:07.320 focused on more specific issues. Yeah, when I say a 2:07:07.400 --> 2:07:11.360 hunting friendly conservation group, that's like a thing that I 2:07:11.440 --> 2:07:14.960 think it's really important for you to understand, because when 2:07:15.040 --> 2:07:18.400 you support hunting friendly conservation groups, you're in you're getting 2:07:18.440 --> 2:07:22.120 in bed with people who want there to be a 2:07:23.000 --> 2:07:25.840 they want they want there to be great habitat, they 2:07:25.960 --> 2:07:28.400 want there to be a lot of wildlife, and they 2:07:28.520 --> 2:07:33.400 support your right to use that wildlife when there is 2:07:33.680 --> 2:07:39.080 enough of it to warrant some consumption. And other conservation 2:07:39.120 --> 2:07:42.520 groups that might really support the habitat and support the 2:07:42.560 --> 2:07:46.440 wildlife end uh want to starve you out. And so 2:07:46.640 --> 2:07:49.800 I think always lend your support to the hunting friendly ones, 2:07:49.840 --> 2:07:52.360 because if not, you're just you're you're helping the long 2:07:52.480 --> 2:07:55.040 game but screwing the screwing yourself in the short term. 2:07:57.320 --> 2:08:04.160 That's not two cents, Mike, He's got nothing to say. 2:08:04.160 --> 2:08:10.680 I got nothing to say any concluders, Carl Uh. I 2:08:10.720 --> 2:08:14.400 would just like to express gratitude to my two buddies. Um, 2:08:15.280 --> 2:08:18.000 you know, these guys taking time off of work and 2:08:18.320 --> 2:08:21.120 beating the crap out of their vehicles and you know, 2:08:21.200 --> 2:08:25.200 cooking some incredible food and you know, just like you, 2:08:25.360 --> 2:08:29.160 I think you guys both have an appreciation Steven Seth 2:08:29.240 --> 2:08:32.320 at this point for they rolled all the red carpet. Yeah, 2:08:32.360 --> 2:08:34.760 but they rolled all the red chili sauce. And the 2:08:34.800 --> 2:08:36.960 point I want to make is it's not because it's 2:08:37.000 --> 2:08:41.960 not because it's not because you were the guy coming 2:08:42.000 --> 2:08:43.840 to hunt. But that's just the kind of guys that 2:08:44.000 --> 2:08:46.880 they are. And if if you were any other old 2:08:47.000 --> 2:08:49.600 Joe buddy of mine coming from out of state to 2:08:49.600 --> 2:08:50.880 go on in oracs, not they would have gotten the 2:08:50.880 --> 2:08:53.080 same kind of treatment. Because I'm lucky enough to have 2:08:53.200 --> 2:08:56.920 friends like these two. Appreciate you, guys. Jeremy, Mike, thank you. 2:08:57.960 --> 2:09:01.880 And anyone draws an OORCS tag Jeremy might be take out. No, 2:09:02.000 --> 2:09:03.880 I mean you guys, don't eve worry about bringing a truck. 2:09:04.000 --> 2:09:07.120 You guys are thoroughly welcome. This was This was an 2:09:07.520 --> 2:09:11.760 absolutely enjoyable five days of just bombing around with with 2:09:12.480 --> 2:09:15.000 people that you know, really feel like old friends at 2:09:15.040 --> 2:09:18.200 this point and so really an authentic experience and just 2:09:18.400 --> 2:09:20.040 a heck of a lot of fun. So I you know, 2:09:20.160 --> 2:09:23.600 I appreciate the time together. This is great. Thanks guys,