1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Holly Fry. We talked about tetanus this week. Yeah, we 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: did so. Very often when we have had anything that's 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: related to science or medicine, anything in that field, when 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: I have been writing the episode, I have started out 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: with an explainer on the illness or the scientific discovery 8 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: and the sort of what's going on with that and 9 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: how it works. And this time I said to myself, 10 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: what if I did something a little different, and what 11 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: if I tried to incorporate the understanding of how tetanus 12 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: works as an illness with the historical timeline of its 13 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: of discoveries about it. And boy was that harder, so 14 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: much harder. I contemplated just scrapping the entire outline and 15 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: starting completely over, but I didn't. I stuck with it, 16 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: even though it was somehow, way way harder to write 17 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: it that way. Something we didn't mention is a piece 18 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: of artwork. I don't know what image will wind up 19 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: being used on our social media to go along with 20 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: this episode, but there is a painting by surgeon and 21 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: artist doctor Charles Bell, which was created in eighteen oh nine, 22 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: and it's called Tetanus following gunshot Wounds, And it's a 23 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: pretty visceral image showing this person who has tetanus in 24 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: like a whole body spasm with their whole body sort 25 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: of arcd like a bow, which is one of the 26 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: ways that the spasms of tetanus have been described historically. 27 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: I didn't really have a great place to mention that 28 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: in the body of the episode itself. Holly, you look 29 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: like you're looking up what it looks like. Oh, I 30 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: was trying to check and see if it's the painting 31 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: I thought it was, and it was. 32 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 33 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: There was just part of my brain that was like, 34 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: are you sure that's the same painting and not yeah, 35 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: some other weird thing. And then while I was looking 36 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: for it, there's another painting that looks like a portrait 37 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: of Count or Lock from the Recent and Nose Farautuo, 38 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: and I got a little psychia. Okay, he did other artwork, 39 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: other portrayals, portrayals of other diseases and conditions, and I 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: got a little bit sidetracked thinking about that, and then said, Okay, 41 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta focus on this episode. That is 42 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: more difficult than expect did based on your own decisions 43 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: to write it differently from usual. I also thought I 44 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: might tell the story of the time I had to 45 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: get a tetnis shot, not as a routine immunisation. I 46 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: have a similar story, but it wasn't me but a sibling. 47 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: So my story is I was living in Asheville, North Carolina, 48 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: on a ground floor apartment with no air conditioning, and 49 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: so I was sleeping with the windows open, and this 50 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: had worked fine until it didn't. And the way that 51 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: it didn't is that a strange stray or someone's pet 52 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't know cat jumped onto the outside ledge of 53 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: the window while my cat, Villainel, was sitting on the 54 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: inside sill of the window. And Villainell immediately started freaking out. 55 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: And so my immediate urgency was to like separate my 56 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: cat from the window and closed the window so that 57 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: she would not be like get into a fight with 58 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: this other cat that I know nothing about, right, And 59 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: when I grabbed her, she just reflexively bit me in 60 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: the web between my finger. 61 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: And my thumb. 62 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this, you know has been this is the 63 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: only time she ever bit anyone. Yeah, displaced aggression is 64 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: not uncommon in cats that are freaked out about an 65 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: outside cat. 66 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 67 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, she had never been in any way aggressive in 68 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: any way, and I think that that was just like 69 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: I surprised her by grabbing her while she was actively 70 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: having a confrontation with this strange cat. Yeah. 71 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 3: So, uh, this is, you know, in the middle of 72 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: the night. 73 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: And so I go, you know, I wash my hand 74 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: and dress my hand as best I can. I go 75 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: back to bed, and I wake up and it's already 76 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: swollen and I can see the beginning of like lines 77 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: leading out of the wound. So I called in sick 78 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: to work and I went to urgent care and they said, 79 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: when was your last tetanus shot? 80 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: And I said, I don't know. 81 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: I think that's a common answer. Yeah, I do know 82 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: now because I start the clock from the time I 83 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: got been back. So they gave me a tetanus shot. 84 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: I also got a big old shot of antibiotics in 85 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: my buttock, and then I also had to be on 86 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: oral antibiotics and I was fine, but that was the 87 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: time that I had to get the tetnis shot because 88 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: of my like I had gotten all of the recommended 89 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: vaccines from my childhood, and I know I had gotten 90 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: like I remember being of an age to have gotten 91 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: a booster, but I was like, I don't know when 92 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: that was exactly, and I did not have vaccine records 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: with me. 94 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: In that moment. 95 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: We were not to the age of having the kind 96 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: of electronic medical records that exist for a lot of 97 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: this stuff. Now. Yeah, here's how I learned what tetanus was. Okay, 98 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: I think I've told you before that when I was young, 99 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: we had a farm in the Pacific Northwest because my 100 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: parents thought farms were idyllic and they grew up on 101 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: farms and we should somehow have a farm. Yeah, I 102 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: don't know. It was weird. Upon that farm, in the 103 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: kind of wooded area of it, there was a giant 104 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: tree that we used for various playtime activities. My siblings 105 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: are all a good bit older than me, and they 106 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: not wanting to do kid things like climb trees, et cetera, 107 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: devise this thing where they basically like tied a rope 108 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: to one of the higher branches, and then they tie 109 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: at the end of that rope that dangled like a 110 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: piece of wood to make a handle, and they would 111 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: basically like grip the piece of wood and then they 112 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: would push each other and swing m M big time fun. 113 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: Except you know, sometimes teenagers aren't really thoughtful about what 114 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: piece of wood they tie to the end of the 115 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: rope for their little swing adventure. Sure, one of my siblings, 116 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: I don't know who, but I have suspicions picked up 117 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: a random piece of wood from our woodpile and tied 118 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: it on there. And my middle sister grabbed it and 119 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: got a rusty nail right through her hand. Oh no, 120 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: And that's how I learned about tennis. Yeah, because she 121 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: went into the house. I think I was inside playing 122 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: because I was not cool enough to hang with them. 123 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: I was their little jerky sister. But I remember her 124 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: coming into the house and like the sort of ripple 125 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: of panic from my KOOKI and anxiety prone mother because 126 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: my sister just thought like, oh, I have a cut 127 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: in my hand. I need to have this dressed. And 128 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: my mom went from that to I think my dad said, hey, 129 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: do we have her up to date on tennis shots? 130 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: And suddenly it was like operation in Ergensia. Everybody kind 131 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: of lost their mind. There was the rushing into the 132 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: car and the running away, and my sister came back 133 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: looking very bedraggled and like she had really been through it, 134 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: because she definitely got some heavy hitting shots and the 135 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: badonk and other places. And that's how I learned what tennis. Yeah, 136 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: and became so afraid. I was never touching that tree 137 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: or the That tree was a hazard, I will say, 138 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: because it also had I think it was like a 139 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: was it a cedar tree? It was something. It also 140 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: had like some very elastic y branches that were kind 141 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: of bouncy that we would also swing on. And at 142 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: one point, like I had gripped onto one of the 143 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: branches and my brother pushed me and I went flying 144 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: and we thought I had a broken arm for a minute. 145 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: I didn't, but it was just banged up real bad. 146 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: I don't you know, kids on farms that are not 147 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: really farm kids maybe don't do smart things. Yeah, or 148 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: maybe we were just a real careless lot. 149 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: I don't know. 150 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: That tree was a menace. 151 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 152 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: Tetanus. I was talking to Patrick as I was working 153 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: on this, and I was like, did you know that 154 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: if you get tetanus your muscles can spasm so hard 155 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: that you can break your own bones And he was 156 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: like yes, And I asked him two or three other 157 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: weird questions about tetanus, and then I said, I, you 158 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: know so much about tetanus and he was like what, 159 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: Like this was the thing we were all terrified of 160 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: as children. Don't step on a rusty nail, you might 161 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: get tetanus. And I was like, but you had your shots, 162 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: like you if you get your shots, probably not going 163 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: to get tetanus, which is good because it sounds awful. Listen, 164 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies were a lawless time. We didn't all 165 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: stay on shot schedules. I think I was on for 166 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: sure that I was definitely on like the shot schedule, 167 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: because that was the like my mom was very focused 168 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: on things like that. And then I think I've said 169 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: before on the show that I was the recommendation for 170 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: how many measles vaccines to get changed after you and 171 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: I were the age that we would have been getting 172 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: them normally, and we were going to go visit my 173 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: grandmother when I was in my early teens and there 174 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: was an active measles outbreak happening there at that time, 175 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: and my mom took me to the pediatrician to get 176 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: another shot before that trip for that reason, so that 177 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: I think I was like thirteen or fourteen. Yeah, we 178 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: went ahead and got boosters this year. 179 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 180 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: The reason I didn't go ahead and get a booster 181 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: is because I had that shot when I was fourteen 182 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: or thirteen, like somewhere in there. And it seemed like, 183 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: as this outbreak is spreading people who are interested in 184 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: getting a vaccine and are just like behind or not 185 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: sure their status or the age bracket that you and 186 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: I are where. They probably only got one shot as 187 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: a kid. I kind of wanted to allow all of 188 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: those folks that are a higher need than me to 189 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: go and get them. I know, you can also get 190 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: tighters checked to see if you still have immunity to stuff. Yeah, 191 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: we I had talked to our doctor about it and 192 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: or I don't know if it's our doctor or a pharmacist, 193 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: and they were like, you know what, at your age, 194 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: if you can't remember, we just skipped the tighter and 195 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: do the shot. Yeah, great, great. I did talk to 196 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: my doctor about it at my physical about whether I 197 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: should whether I should get another DOCE, or whether I 198 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: should get my tighter checked, and she was like, I think, 199 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: based on what you've just told me, I think you're fine, 200 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: and we would not need to order that. I did 201 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: also confirm that, even though I do not believe I 202 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,119 Speaker 1: ever had chicken pox, I should get a shingles vaccine 203 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks here after I turned fifty, 204 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: and I should also get the new Macacle pneumonia vaccine 205 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: again in a couple of weeks here after I turned fifty. Yeah, 206 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a little trip for myself, and then 207 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: when I come home from a trip, on my list 208 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: of things to do, it's gonna be going to get 209 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: my vaccines. So fun. They prevent you from getting serious 210 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: and potentially deadly illnesses. They do not cause autism. That 211 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: is that is established at this point. Even if they 212 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: did cause autism, the idea that your child dying is 213 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: preferable to your child being autistic is very troubling and offensive, 214 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: and frankly, a lot of the things that RFK Junior 215 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: has been saying are also offensive. Oh my lord, it was. 216 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: I have been out of the country, yeah, for a while, 217 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: a little less than a couple of weeks, and I 218 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: was out of the country and busy enough that I 219 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: wasn't looking at news or social media much, and neither 220 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: were most of the people I was with, and we 221 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: were at like some I don't know, if we were 222 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: at dinner, at like a little you know, cocktail gathering 223 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: or whatever, and one of my friends opened up social 224 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: media and then went, oh no and shut it immediately, 225 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: was like, let's just stay in our weird vacation bubble 226 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: because nobody needs to hear what's going on and what's 227 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: coming out of that person's mouth, not for. 228 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: The next few minutes. 229 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 230 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was very fear Like, the most recent, in 231 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: my opinion, most offensive and disgusting thing was after this 232 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: article or this episode was like already completely written, like 233 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: it was just waiting for you to return for Japan. 234 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: And then I was like, now there's another thing to 235 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: be mad about about vaccines. There's always another thing. 236 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 237 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,119 Speaker 1: To be very clear, there is a broad spectrum of autism. 238 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: That is why it's called a spectrum. And there are 239 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: people on that spectrum who do need daily care all 240 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: the time, and that is true. They are still human beings, 241 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: they are still part of our society and part of 242 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: our world, and they are not some to be eliminated. 243 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like we could live in 244 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: a world where we were focused on making sure everyone 245 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: has access to the world that we live in instead 246 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: of a world instead of trying to eliminate people to 247 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: make our lives simpler. Yeah, eliminate people, because that's what 248 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about. 249 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 2: Anyway. 250 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: Anyway, you can check out previous episodes that we've got 251 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: about the eugenics movement in the archive if you want 252 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: to do that. Otherwise you just want to depress the 253 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: heck out of yourself even more. Get real mad. We 254 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: talked about Cidi Mubarak Bombay this week. My sad brain 255 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,119 Speaker 1: just wants to do calling doctor Bombay, calling doctor Bombay, 256 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: come in, come in right away. This is funny for 257 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: all of my Bewitched fans in the crowd. 258 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 259 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: I so it's clear from having you know, everyone who 260 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: has listened to this episode. If you're somehow listening to 261 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: a Friday behind the scenes having not heard the episode, 262 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: I would feel like in a lot of cases, that's 263 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: not going to make any sense, but you know, just 264 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: in case somehow that's what's happening in your life right now. 265 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: A lot of that episode is drawn from the accounts 266 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: of these men who went on these expeditions and the 267 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: books they wrote about them later and there are so 268 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: many of them, and I kept getting confused about them, 269 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: and I wound up temporarily at the top of the 270 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: outline just having this list of names and links so 271 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: that I would not confuse who had written which book 272 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: about which of these things, because everyone that we talked 273 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: about wrote at least one book about it. 274 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: And even with that, occasionally. 275 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: Like there was a time that Holly caught in as 276 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: we were recording this where I had just put the 277 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: wrong name of one of these guys. 278 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: Hopefully that was the only time. 279 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: In fairness, it had referred to that guide just a 280 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: sentence earlier, so it's just yeah, yeah, a finger repeat 281 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: in typing, not a big Hopefully we didn't mess it 282 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: up any other times. I will reiterate all of these 283 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: books are online in multiple places. They're all in the 284 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: public domain. There's a lot of racism in there. I 285 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: did not read. I did not include any of the 286 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: most re racist things. There are parts of what we 287 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: did read that kind of kind of have some of 288 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: the threads of some of the stereotypes that people in 289 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: like the UK had about people from Africa, about there 290 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: being like simple and happy, and there is some of that, 291 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: But I do think that he as a person, like 292 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: he is widely described as being like a very happy 293 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: and upbeat and a very kind person that sort of 294 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: resonates through all of people's writing about him. But yeah, 295 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 1: I did not put in big long quotes filled with 296 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: the N word, which there are many of. 297 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: Yees. 298 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: I have some theories, Okay, you kind of touched on 299 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: it in the ways that people wrote about him and 300 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: different perceptions of him, because I really do think some 301 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: of it, whether it is surely racially motivated, like there's 302 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: surely racists racist root to it, but I really think 303 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: like speak seemed like a pretty chill dude in many ways. 304 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 3: I can be wrong. 305 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 1: I don't certainly didn't know him personally, but you know, 306 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: all of his writing that you quoted in this is 307 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: very much about his appreciation for all of these people 308 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: that helped him, how kind he found them. And then 309 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: all of the subsequent ones have to me this edge 310 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: of what I would call snoops petuits, like they're just 311 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: they are clearly wealthy white dudes, yeah, who are now 312 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: in a place where they're having to take advice from 313 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: someone that they perceive as lesser, and it bruises their 314 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: egos to be told like, dude, you cannot walk today, 315 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: do you not know? And it's easier to say he's 316 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: wasting my time. Then I'm a little weaker than I thought. 317 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: Like that. 318 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 3: Also, every one. 319 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: Of these expeditions sounds miserable, but there was just so 320 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: much illness, and some of it serious illness, and even 321 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: if not serious, you know, the not serious illness parts, 322 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: there were, uh, just all kinds of injuries and all 323 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: kinds of delays and all kinds of They thought that 324 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: they were going to be able to make it to 325 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 1: this place, but now they have to camp out and 326 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: it's like swampy and hot and full of bugs. And 327 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: two different people supposedly leading the expedition both have eye 328 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: inflammation that means that they mostly can't see very well. 329 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: Like none of it sounds fun to me, it does. 330 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: And so sometimes when I'm reading these accounts and I'm 331 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: reading the times that they sound kind of judgy about 332 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: about what Bombay was doing or decisions he was making, 333 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like, was this really a bad decision? Or 334 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: are you just mad and uncomfortable? 335 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: Right? 336 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: And I mean we have all reached that point, like 337 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: whether it's when you're traveling or you're just in the 338 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: middle of like a really busy season or whatever, where 339 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: like the the stresses on your body make you less 340 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: magnanimous and more prone to be fussy and crabby. Yeah, sure, 341 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: so that's a natural part of it. But then like 342 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: when you get home and you're writing about it, theoretically 343 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: you are not feeling those same stresses, and maybe, yeah, 344 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a jerk, Yeah, especially considering 345 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: this person actually knows what they're doing and you've never 346 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: been there before, so don't dare. 347 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 348 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: There has been a lot more writing in more recent 349 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: years about how critical the work and knowledge of like 350 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: the locally hired African people was to like all of 351 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: these expeditions, and then also the people that had either 352 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: returned to Africa from India or had been in some 353 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: cases hired in India specifically to come on an expedition 354 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: to Africa, and how you would have like in most 355 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: of these expeditions, there would be a very small group 356 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: of white officers from somewhere in the UK that had 357 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: usually been in the military service, like some number between 358 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: maybe six and ten of them, and then the entire 359 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: rest of the company were either either people hired locally 360 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: from any of like the African tribes and kingdoms there 361 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: were hired in India. Those were the people that were 362 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: doing They were carrying all the stuff, they were making 363 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: all of the negotiations for the most part between the 364 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: the with the like the kingdoms and the and the 365 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: empires that they were passing through. If Stanley or Livingstone 366 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: or whoever had just gone down there by themselves without 367 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: any help, they would have died right away. They would 368 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: have gotten four miles and collapsed. 369 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. 370 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: So there's been a lot more, not even just recently, 371 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: like not just within the last twenty years, but within 372 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: the last like fifty years, a lot more writing about 373 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: how much all of these you know, so called European 374 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: exploration expeditions was like they were all like really grounded 375 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: in the the labor and the knowledge of the African 376 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: people whose continent they were quote exploring. Yeah, it's more 377 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: like they were being guided round. Yes, yes, And probably 378 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: those poor people that were doing all that work were 379 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: like this big dumb, fussy baby is here again? Got 380 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: to take them to try to find the source of 381 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: the Nile. We could have told them, but they want 382 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: to learn the hard way. So here you brother get 383 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: in the boat. I will say, back when we recorded 384 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: that episode about hat Shepstuit and the Voyage Dupunte, that 385 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: was a Saturday classic, I stressed a lot more about 386 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: whether we were covering enough history from parts of the 387 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: world other than North America and Europe. I still try 388 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: to select a diverse range of topics to talk about. 389 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 3: But no matter which things we're focusing on in terms 390 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: of diverse. 391 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: There's always stuff that's just not ever in Like it's 392 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: that's there will there will never be enough of that 393 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: particular thing, right, So it's like still my goal to 394 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: include things from all over the world. But sometimes if 395 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: some months pass without something else from a different part 396 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: of the world, like that is no longer a thing 397 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: causing me to lose sleep. 398 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: At night. 399 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 3: In the way that it was earlier. 400 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes anxiety drives the bus. Yeah, there's also just the 401 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: realities we've talked before about how if we are talking 402 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: about something that is related to North America or Europe, 403 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: this starting question is not do I have the cultural 404 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: context to talk about this adequately? And sometimes when we 405 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: are talking about things from Africa or Asia, South America, 406 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: like places that we aren't as steeped in sometimes I 407 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: look at something and I go, no, I don't have 408 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: the cultural competence to do this justice at all. And 409 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: recognizing my own limits there has been like part of 410 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: the learning curve of more than a decade on this podcast, 411 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: well over a decade at this point. So yeah, anyway, 412 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: I try to talk about lots of different things on 413 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: the show, but now I'm better at recognizing my own 414 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: limitations in doing that. Hey, I know we're all living 415 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: in times that are full of a lot of chaos 416 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: and uncertainty and for a lot of us with frustrations 417 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: and upset. So whatever's happening, whatever's progressing in your life, 418 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: I hope you're able to find a moment where you're 419 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: able to find a little piece, a little moment of joy. 420 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: All of those things are we need them to, you know, 421 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: continue to do the things that we're all trying to 422 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: do in our lives. We will be back with a 423 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: Saturday Classic tomorrow and something brand it's new on Funday. 424 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 425 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 426 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,