WEBVTT - EP 139 Guerilla Black: How I commited 20 million in fraud Pt1 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.680 His name is Charles Williamson, but for almost a decade, 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.280 his name was replaced by a series of numbers assigned 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.760 to him by the Federal Bureau of Corrections. Those numbers 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:13.960 served as a daily reminder that he was doing time 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.360 for credit card fraud. When I say fraud, I'm not 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.599 talking to typical minor league lick for Pared Jordan's. I'm 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.840 talking major fraud to the tune of twenty million dollars. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.600 But we'll elaborate in that little later, because every story 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.800 has the beginning, and this story starts with another Elias 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.360 that Williamson went by, and that was Gorilla Black. One day, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.920 you know, I was in a real dark space, and 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.559 at that time I was financially inept, so a lot 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.760 of money that I had previously made and with being 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.440 an industry, with touring, with publishing, all of that had 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.519 pretty much been exhausted of me living and you know, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.040 trying to create a business, which was my barbershop. A 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.520 lot of y'all that's been throughout the city. A lot 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.639 of people know me from on and you know, hair 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.880 salons and barbershops, you know, being in the hair business 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.320 over the last almost twenty years, whether it's creating products, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:13.240 whether it's shops and so forth. So um an associate 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.840 introduced me. And when an associate introduced me to it, 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.880 I've seen the power of it and I was in 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.000 a dark space at that time. I'll be the first 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.240 to admit that. And I realized that it was a 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.679 potential way to change things up for me in the 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:40.600 immediate future on my finances. But I really didn't understand 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:45.880 the mechanics behind it. And so once you know, I've 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:50.840 always been an inquisitive individual by nature soul, me sitting 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.160 down and really getting an understanding of exactly how it worked. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.960 Once I did, I ended up connecting with somebody. And 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.560 when I did connect with this person through you know, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:08.240 the dark web, he had sent me a batch of 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.840 you know cards, and I think it was like November 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.600 of that year, and I think the first month I 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.800 made about fifty dollars. And from that point out, I 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.760 realized that, you know, he had codependency problems. He was 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:29.120 you know, pretty much a heroin at it. And from 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.640 that point out our conversation became a little bit deeper, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.920 and so he understood it. I had the financial ability 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.040 to be able to take these cards and actually make 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:46.480 a profit, and he was having financial issues of his 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:51.560 own because of his codependency problem. So I took it 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.760 upon myself to ingratiate myself to the point of where 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.839 I would pay for all of the other means that 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.680 came to get in the card is, whether it be 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.480 you know, the servers, or whether it be you know, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.079 all of the different technology that was needed and mare 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.520 were and so forth for that nature. And I pretty 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:14.919 much funded it. And so once I got to that level, 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:20.079 I realized that I got really really really deep and 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:25.359 um to where you know it was it was nothing 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.720 to harvest, you know, in a week's time to the 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:34.480 three thousand cards, and um, I had to understanding in 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.960 a sophisticated means to be able to tap into thousands 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:43.720 of pots pretty much worldwide. And um, I would take 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.840 those cards as I would get them and let them 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.680 sit in different batches and so forth. So my level 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.360 of understanding of how the complexity of it it was. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.800 It was complex at first, but uh that that complexity 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.520 just pretty much grew into child's play after a while 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.680 because he explained to me on so many different levels. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.800 And as that happened, I pretty much graduated into you know, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.560 other circumstances with other individuals who was doing the same thing. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.240 So that just expounded itself into a whole another you 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:22.240 know situation, and where it just continued to you know growing. Um, yeah, 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:27.760 you're mixing the dark web. And that's always been like 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.200 a mythical thing to me, like how did you learn 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.360 that technology? Did they teach you all the technology and 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.239 how to get access the dark web and everything like that. Well, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.560 it was pretty much a lot of different sites in 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.400 which me doing my homework Delvon and Delvon and Delvon 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.919 and Delvon. And in that era, there was websites that 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:52.760 actually sole and marketed you know, um day capabilities of 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:59.360 you know, selling dumps, which is quote unquote credit card numbers. UM. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.359 I went on in site and you know, there was 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:08.719 a messaging um technology that was pretty much a Russian 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:13.240 technology and in which way you could message the you know, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.080 all of the different hackers and so forth. And so 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.159 when I messaged him, how I met the individual? When 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:25.039 I messaged him, he hit me back and so he 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:29.400 was like, I said, well, I need fifty cards, and 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.080 so he sent them to me and I hadn't even 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.120 sent him the money, and I must said have made 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.880 maybe about six seven thousand dollars off of them, and 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.960 um he said, yeah, brother, who you owe me? Um this? 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.320 And I was like, okay, cool, So I sent him 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.039 the money and from there he would just send him, 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.720 just send him, send him, send him, send him, send him. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.960 And so when he got to the point to where 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.560 he couldn't actually pay for you know, to serve for space, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.479 to be able to run the equipment and all of 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.120 the gear, to be able to you know, playing all 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.120 of them, all ware throughout all of the posits that 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.480 you know, was pretty much worldwide. I just pretty much 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.599 took over all of that aspect of it, on the 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.880 billion of it. And then from there he was able 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:22.280 to pretty much access you know, my computer, you know, remotely, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.440 and then step by step I was able to learn 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.799 everything exactly what he was doing. And it was crazy 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.320 because when you look at it, it's like if me 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:41.279 and you're standing on a block, but imagine having a big, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:47.159 huge ring full of keys, and each one, well not 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.280 a huge ring. Let's just say we got at least 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.400 five keys, but we go to each back door and 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.440 we try each key, and then every time it would 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.760 crack on my screen would say vulnerable, and then it's 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.520 like us going to all of them and so imagine 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:08.480 doing that times a hundred thousand and then times a million. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.840 Imagine going to a million back doors trying those keys. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:17.760 And so, yeah, I knew the vulnerabilities inside the Microsoft system. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.960 And so once I understood that, and then from there 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.880 he would sit there and explain to me how to 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.440 actually use you know, all of the different technology and 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.400 them allware, they'll be added to it, and pretty much 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.040 it was. It was a game changer for me because 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.720 I was it was it was lights out because every 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.160 time you would go inside of a store, a lot 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.640 of you don't even realize it, but you take your 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.760 card and imagine you're going in there and you're just 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.680 paying for some milk and some cookies or whatever it mayby. Well, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.000 when you slide that magnetic strip, that magnetic strip sends 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.920 out a series of codes, which is a track one 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:06.080 at tracked two, and that information goes to a processor. Well, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.680 I would get inside of that line and when that 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.280 information would go to the processor, it would also go 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.280 to me and go to the processor and go to me. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.800 And imagine all of the people that walk in the 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.080 store in the day so you pretty much said, um said, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.640 access to the terminals that were in the stores. Yeah, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.640 it's surpas the point of sales. Wow. So look, let 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.079 me ask you this. You mentioned that you made money 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.480 off of these cards. How would a person make money 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.679 of a credit card? Pretty much? You know, we use 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.400 a machine, and then I would take that machine and 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.120 you could actually encode any magnetic strip with the code 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.520 of numbers, which is a series of numbers which identifies 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:52.880 every individual. So let's just say the first track would 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.440 have your name on it, your last name, your first name, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.079 with a series of numbers, and then there would be 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.719 another one and that would be the being and the 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.080 beginning numbers is the bank identification number, and then a 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.480 series of numbers that would actually lead to that account. 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.520 So I would just use track two track two on everything. 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:10.880 I made it a lot easier. I didn't need all 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.400 of that, And I would just go into a store 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:18.600 seven eleven and I would take thirty gift cards that 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.680 was on the shelf that had never been open and 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.200 never been touched, and I just put them in the 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.640 grocery bag and walk out the store with him or 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.880 anywhere I would see them. And then when I would 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.640 get back to my lab, I would just open them 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.640 up and with a program placed on the laptop, it 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.920 would be plugged into a box and whenever I would 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:41.720 swap into and all of that information Track one, track two, well, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.439 I would using the only using track two. It would 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.840 be on that card, and from there I would give 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.760 that card to my crew of individuals and they would 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.000 pretty much go on shopping spreeze all day. So you 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.520 guys would go on shopping sprees and pretty much real 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.960 the items that you curate to on those visits, not 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.000 really the item so much. It would just be on 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.640 a shopping spreef for gift cards. So you know, I 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.840 would never sent her brought up in there with some 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.840 booty shorts into you know, Bloomingdale. Actually you had to 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.280 dress the part, so I would make sure that she 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.679 had her hair nice and that she looked like she 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.880 was someone who had five thousand dollar credit card or 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.240 had access to five or ten thousand dollar credit card 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.800 and so much. Pretty much essentially, once she would just 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.560 slide that card, it would ring up the sail and 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.840 then she would buy items to disguise the bigger play. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.160 The bigger play was the actual gift card. So being 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.080 able to get a five hundred dollar Bloomingdale card, which 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.679 would pretty much retail on the streets for about three 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.240 hundred dollars or to fifty or whatever or a half 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:49.240 of it. So imagine she got three five hundred dollar 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:54.079 home depot cards, UM, a few hundred dollar Bloomingdale and 0:10:54.160 --> 0:11:00.160 Norstradale North uh Norstrooms cards, UM walking side of all 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.199 marked and pretty much you could buy these cards when 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.000 you buy another product. So at that time I would 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.440 let them keep all of the merchandise. All I wanted 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.839 was a third or third or third or third for 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.280 me and third for you, a third for the actual 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.200 game pretty much the cost of everything. So it was 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.400 the third or third or third split and so you 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.480 exactly pretty much essentially they would keep two thirds and 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.640 I would keep two thirds. How much money would you 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.600 say this operation was grossing for you a month? Yeah? 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:39.359 It varies. I mean, because I was sending cards with females, 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.600 you know, the federal government. All of this is documented. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:48.120 And also I was selling cards to other individuals. You know, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.280 I was selling fifty four thousand, so probably about a 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.520 hundred thousand, maybe a hunting if shorter, maybe any anywhere 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.880 around eighty nine somewhere around there. Oh wow, man, so 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.520 you really have a celebrity, you really have an elaboraty 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.040 system going yeah, yeah, okay, so you know you have 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.240 this going on. What was your run? Like, how many 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.439 years was you doing it? Successful? It wasn't a very 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.120 very long run, man, I mean it was probably about 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:21.360 a good to three year run. And you know, it 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.840 wasn't a real real long run because you know, I 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.640 guess the element of surprise is the surprise itself. So 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.640 the individual what brought the run pretty much to an 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:37.920 end is the individual. I never forget there was a 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:43.720 There was two locations in the Seattle area, and one 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.080 of the locations, you know, I never forget this because 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.520 it's so eerie, and I never forget getting the phone 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.960 call from me said I got two more spots, and 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:59.240 so he had access to it. And when I went 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.280 inside every and I looked, I said, where did these 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.800 cards come from? And when I'm you know, taking the numbers, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.760 and I'm looking. By this time, I'm able to look 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.800 at the first three digits of it, and so I 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.880 know what the bank, what banks they are, and I'm like, 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.720 these not regular cards, these are business and corporate cards 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:24.520 pretty much essentially, and so I'm running them boom, I'm running. 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.800 I walked into a Walmart and I think mont Claire 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.240 Claire Mount, California, and I walked in and I must 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.240 have the boat light four or five PlayStations, and then 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.719 I must have bought about another three or four five 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.680 gift cards myself literally and I'm like, damn, So the 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:47.079 cards was they was going going going, and um to 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.680 come to find out that the company that they came 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.800 from had went and got a computer forensic expert that 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.680 was able to trace back where the cards where we 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.439 planted the line and trace it all the way back 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.160 to the actual server and trace it all the way 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:12.559 back to his I P and pretty much once that happened, Yeah, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.200 it was. It was pretty much everything was on a 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.080 on a on a time clock pretty much. And once 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:23.000 they gathered they gathered enough information and they grabbed him. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.400 He you know, pretty much relinquished you know, everything and 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:32.080 pretty much essentially told on me. So yeah, so so 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.200 so he um involved, you went to his mess he 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.800 got caught and pretty much ruled over on you. When 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.120 did you get an ideal? Because I think people normally 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.800 get an ideal they could feel the heat on them. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.040 Did you feel the heat in the instance, I didn't 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:53.040 really know. I never forget at the time. UM, you 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.720 know me and you know my son's mother. We was 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:03.960 in Puerto Rico, and I never forget. I went out 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.680 there for my birthday and I stayed at the Continental Hotel. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.280 And you know, during my birthday is this elaborate thing 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.680 that they do there where people jump in the ocean 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.480 backwards and they make all of these new resolutions of 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.640 how the rest of the year is gonna be, and 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.360 you know, all of these different epiphanies they begin to have. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.000 And it's a holiday almost essentially there. And so we 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.640 came back and whenever we came back, I owned a 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.120 motorcycle shop at the present time, and I went to 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.600 the motorcycle shop. And when I went to the motorcycle shop, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.240 my partner, who was my partner inside of my motorcycle shop, 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.520 he was like, YO, get the funk out of here. 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.240 Federal agents been all over the place. Hearth Thorn, the 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.720 sheriff Department, Towrence, Police Department, UH, the Marshals, the Secret Service. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.640 They had toward the shop, two smith Rens and um 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.880 they was looking for me, and yeah, I had a 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.880 and then so I had a friend, you know, my 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.480 friend Geo. He called, you know, an officer that he knew, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.240 and he said, man, they got a twenty two count 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.080 indictment um for guerrilla black out of Seattle. And that's 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.160 how I found out I had a twenty count indictment. Yeah. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:21.520 Did you ever think about running? Man? I wanted to run. 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.240 You know, I stayed here and I had to throw 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.120 my phones away. I threw everything away and try to 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:28.960 get off of the grid. But pretty much it's the 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:35.360 FEDS man. So everyone that was associated with me, that 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:40.400 was inter linked with me, they had under surveillance. So 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.120 you know, imagine I had this motorcycle shop, another motorcycle 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:51.560 shop too, uh, barbershops, and also office that you know 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:53.920 at the time my wife and I was running. So 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.440 I had all of these. I have five different businesses 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.760 going on, plus my elicit business, my my real cash cow, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:07.919 my credit card hustle. So um, yeah, I mean I 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.800 thought about running. That was a thought in my mind 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.320 for a long time. But I was like, damn, where 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.359 I'm gonna run to, Like, this is the federal government 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.320 that's I'm going to lead the country, And you know, 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.040 leave my kids, leave everything that I pretty much know. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.320 So the thought came across my mind. So the thought 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.600 came brout your mind. So when how did the police 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.560 finally how the law enforcement officials finally kick up? Which 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:39.080 I had got an attorney, and I was talking to 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.480 the attorney, but I didn't understand that they pretty much 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.080 essentially already knew where I was at. So the attorney 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.200 was pretty much keeping them at bay. Um. Eventually I 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.560 would end up getting a paid attorney and working with 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:58.520 a whole another individual. Um. But I never forget it. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.920 I Um. I was sitting in there in the living 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.359 room and I was reading the Bible. It's so coincidental. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.240 And we hear a knock on the door, and my 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.520 wife she got asked for the door. And at this 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.120 time I was living in Palace Verdes, and so here 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.720 the door pump, blah blah boom, and so she like 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.280 black black, black black, And I'm like, what the hell, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.000 what's going on? And so I walk up and then 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.959 you know, the federal agents, they was all in plain clothes. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.920 They was all, you know, I'm swing, so from the 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.400 Secret Service. I'm sewing, so from the Secret Service. I'm 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.920 from the Secret Service. I'm from the Secret Service. Charles 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.960 Williamson can used to please step forward, said yeah, are 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.159 you Charles Williamson. And in their hand they had the 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:46.560 indictment and the Warren as well, and they didn't even 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.879 put no cuffs on me. I looked in front of 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.480 my yard and I've seen six hundred bins is and 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.680 I've seen rain drovers, and all of them was filled 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.159 with federal agents, all of them with Secret Service. They 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.760 literally walked me to the back of a six hundred, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.800 open the back door and put me in it. And 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.359 along the way back to the Federal building you can 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.359 see those cars swarming around. And we got there. Then 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.760 they took me up there and I never forget. They 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.040 was like, you want to sit down and talk. I 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:16.760 was like, man, it's been a rough day. Man. I 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.800 just need two things. Man, I need a soft bunk 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.040 man and a pubby meat sandwich. And we ain't got 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:27.600 nothing else to really say. Okay. So from there processed 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.440 me out, went to the raiment. Following day, they sent 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.800 me up to m d C. And then the Ninth Circuit, 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.840 which is from Seattle. Up there they sent down the 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.880 request to have me uh extradited back up to Seattle 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.600 was so crazy and ironic. Like I said previously, the 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.640 places in which where we got the information from out 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.320 of these two spots in Seattle, and the forensic scientists, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.520 all of the information that they got, they pretty much 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.160 sent it over to the federal government. And the moment 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.120 that cards was moved over international wire or over over 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.840 you know, these internet communications, it became a federal crime. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.320 So I couldn't be prosecuted on the state level. It 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.040 became all federal at that time. So it became of fear. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.000 And if I'm not mistaken in the fits you that time, No, 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.320 it's not a dent. You do eighty seven point five 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.399 percent of it. So, um, yeah, it's eighty seven point 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.320 five percent, you know, even on a non violence such 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.840 as mine. Um. Crazy part about it is is for 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.040 me to get the time that I got, I pretty much, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.159 you know, to keep a lot of other people that 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.800 was involved with me out of the way, I had 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.000 to give away my appeal rights as long as they 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.880 allowed my family members, you know, to not be caught 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.640 up in you know, my present charges on a conspiracy. 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:50.800 So pretty much I gave away my appeal rights. So yeah, yeah, 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:55.120 that was an honorable thing to do. Um. You know, now, 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.240 when did your sentence you come about? Um? I was 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.080 sentenced actually once they took me into custody. What was 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.719 so crazy is what is the day eighteen two days ago? Yeah, 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.160 would be the anniversary of that day is January sixteenth. 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.600 They took me into federal custody, and I probably I 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:21.040 got sentenced later that year of two thousand and thirteen October. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.760 I got sentenced October ten. Um, I was extradited from 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:31.080 m DC to C Tax C Tax which is Seattle Tacoma, Washington, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.720 to have a federal holding that's there. So once that happened, Um, 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.280 I never forget. I think his name was Judge Gonzalez, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.720 and um they pretty much that whole day. Man, I 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.320 was hearing dudes getting sixty months, seventy months, eighty months. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.000 I was like, Oh, I'm gonna get love. I'm gonna 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:53.000 get love. And UM, I never forget. I wasn't pleaning. 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.439 I didn't want to plead to the twenty million dollars 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.720 in fraug. That was you know, us being slick on 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.240 some on some some nickel slicks. Ship. We're not gonna 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.040 plead to the twenty million. It sounds a lot better 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.720 pleading to thirty thousand credit cards instead of pleading to 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:14.760 twenty million dollars a fraud. So my attorney got up 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.520 there with the Nickel slicks. Shit. It was like, you know, 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.359 repleating the you know, these thirty thousand credit cards. The 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.360 judge was like, man, I ain't trying to hear that. Man, 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.440 this is a twenty million dollar fraud case, and just 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:28.200 swatted my attorney like bow. And you know, during this, 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:33.200 with me signing for open plea, my life is literally 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:37.080 in the judge's hand. It's not like a regular where 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.359 I'm locked into a set amount of time. I have 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.879 my guidelines, which is a hundred and eight to a 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.680 hundred and thirty five months, so the judge can give 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.600 me within that range, or he could go above it. 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.800 During you know, behind the mitigating circumstances. Under one bank 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.960 fraud charge, which I played till over five of them, 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.800 bank frog carries a maximum penalty of thirty years. I 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.960 played the aggravvated identity death Aggravated identity theft carries the 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.760 twenty four mandatory sentence. I played it also to access 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.760 device for aud which is essentially any device that you're 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.600 able to use as a communication vehicle for bank information 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:23.520 as well, so I never forget it. Man. He was like, um, 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:25.240 you know what Mr Williams said to do. I can 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:30.040 give you twenty years and uh man, I mean I 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.000 just felt like my whole life flashed and I'm literally 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.600 sitting here in a black box cuffed, he said. But 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.720 I'm not gonna do that to you. He said, I'm 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.200 gonna give you for these charges right here, there's gonna 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.400 be eighty seven months. And on top of that, I'm 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:46.600 going to give you another twenty four months for the 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.199 aggravated identity theft, so that's gonna be a hundred and 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.879 ten months. But he said, you ever come back up 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:57.040 in this courtroom again, I will give you twenty years. Yeh. 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:02.159 And so where did you do your time that I 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.360 did most of my time and but Loon Park Federal 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:11.760 Correctional um Institution up there in Long Park, California. So yeah, 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:16.159 that's Ceclon Pard that's the Santa Maria, California actually, and 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.719 you were locked there with interesting people, Yeah, definitely, man um. 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.399 The first place where they housed me at was in 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.879