Speaker 1: His name is Charles Williamson, but for almost a decade,
Speaker 1: his name was replaced by a series of numbers assigned
Speaker 1: to him by the Federal Bureau of Corrections. Those numbers
Speaker 1: served as a daily reminder that he was doing time
Speaker 1: for credit card fraud. When I say fraud, I'm not
Speaker 1: talking to typical minor league lick for Pared Jordan's. I'm
Speaker 1: talking major fraud to the tune of twenty million dollars.
Speaker 1: But we'll elaborate in that little later, because every story
Speaker 1: has the beginning, and this story starts with another Elias
Speaker 1: that Williamson went by, and that was Gorilla Black. One day,
Speaker 1: you know, I was in a real dark space, and
Speaker 1: at that time I was financially inept, so a lot
Speaker 1: of money that I had previously made and with being
Speaker 1: an industry, with touring, with publishing, all of that had
Speaker 1: pretty much been exhausted of me living and you know,
Speaker 1: trying to create a business, which was my barbershop. A
Speaker 1: lot of y'all that's been throughout the city. A lot
Speaker 1: of people know me from on and you know, hair
Speaker 1: salons and barbershops, you know, being in the hair business
Speaker 1: over the last almost twenty years, whether it's creating products,
Speaker 1: whether it's shops and so forth. So um an associate
Speaker 1: introduced me. And when an associate introduced me to it,
Speaker 1: I've seen the power of it and I was in
Speaker 1: a dark space at that time. I'll be the first
Speaker 1: to admit that. And I realized that it was a
Speaker 1: potential way to change things up for me in the
Speaker 1: immediate future on my finances. But I really didn't understand
Speaker 1: the mechanics behind it. And so once you know, I've
Speaker 1: always been an inquisitive individual by nature soul, me sitting
Speaker 1: down and really getting an understanding of exactly how it worked.
Speaker 1: Once I did, I ended up connecting with somebody. And
Speaker 1: when I did connect with this person through you know,
Speaker 1: the dark web, he had sent me a batch of
Speaker 1: you know cards, and I think it was like November
Speaker 1: of that year, and I think the first month I
Speaker 1: made about fifty dollars. And from that point out, I
Speaker 1: realized that, you know, he had codependency problems. He was
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much a heroin at it. And from
Speaker 1: that point out our conversation became a little bit deeper,
Speaker 1: and so he understood it. I had the financial ability
Speaker 1: to be able to take these cards and actually make
Speaker 1: a profit, and he was having financial issues of his
Speaker 1: own because of his codependency problem. So I took it
Speaker 1: upon myself to ingratiate myself to the point of where
Speaker 1: I would pay for all of the other means that
Speaker 1: came to get in the card is, whether it be
Speaker 1: you know, the servers, or whether it be you know,
Speaker 1: all of the different technology that was needed and mare
Speaker 1: were and so forth for that nature. And I pretty
Speaker 1: much funded it. And so once I got to that level,
Speaker 1: I realized that I got really really really deep and
Speaker 1: um to where you know it was it was nothing
Speaker 1: to harvest, you know, in a week's time to the
Speaker 1: three thousand cards, and um, I had to understanding in
Speaker 1: a sophisticated means to be able to tap into thousands
Speaker 1: of pots pretty much worldwide. And um, I would take
Speaker 1: those cards as I would get them and let them
Speaker 1: sit in different batches and so forth. So my level
Speaker 1: of understanding of how the complexity of it it was.
Speaker 1: It was complex at first, but uh that that complexity
Speaker 1: just pretty much grew into child's play after a while
Speaker 1: because he explained to me on so many different levels.
Speaker 1: And as that happened, I pretty much graduated into you know,
Speaker 1: other circumstances with other individuals who was doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: So that just expounded itself into a whole another you
Speaker 1: know situation, and where it just continued to you know growing. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're mixing the dark web. And that's always been like
Speaker 1: a mythical thing to me, like how did you learn
Speaker 1: that technology? Did they teach you all the technology and
Speaker 1: how to get access the dark web and everything like that. Well,
Speaker 1: it was pretty much a lot of different sites in
Speaker 1: which me doing my homework Delvon and Delvon and Delvon
Speaker 1: and Delvon. And in that era, there was websites that
Speaker 1: actually sole and marketed you know, um day capabilities of
Speaker 1: you know, selling dumps, which is quote unquote credit card numbers. UM.
Speaker 1: I went on in site and you know, there was
Speaker 1: a messaging um technology that was pretty much a Russian
Speaker 1: technology and in which way you could message the you know,
Speaker 1: all of the different hackers and so forth. And so
Speaker 1: when I messaged him, how I met the individual? When
Speaker 1: I messaged him, he hit me back and so he
Speaker 1: was like, I said, well, I need fifty cards, and
Speaker 1: so he sent them to me and I hadn't even
Speaker 1: sent him the money, and I must said have made
Speaker 1: maybe about six seven thousand dollars off of them, and
Speaker 1: um he said, yeah, brother, who you owe me? Um this?
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, cool, So I sent him
Speaker 1: the money and from there he would just send him,
Speaker 1: just send him, send him, send him, send him, send him.
Speaker 1: And so when he got to the point to where
Speaker 1: he couldn't actually pay for you know, to serve for space,
Speaker 1: to be able to run the equipment and all of
Speaker 1: the gear, to be able to you know, playing all
Speaker 1: of them, all ware throughout all of the posits that
Speaker 1: you know, was pretty much worldwide. I just pretty much
Speaker 1: took over all of that aspect of it, on the
Speaker 1: billion of it. And then from there he was able
Speaker 1: to pretty much access you know, my computer, you know, remotely,
Speaker 1: and then step by step I was able to learn
Speaker 1: everything exactly what he was doing. And it was crazy
Speaker 1: because when you look at it, it's like if me
Speaker 1: and you're standing on a block, but imagine having a big,
Speaker 1: huge ring full of keys, and each one, well not
Speaker 1: a huge ring. Let's just say we got at least
Speaker 1: five keys, but we go to each back door and
Speaker 1: we try each key, and then every time it would
Speaker 1: crack on my screen would say vulnerable, and then it's
Speaker 1: like us going to all of them and so imagine
Speaker 1: doing that times a hundred thousand and then times a million.
Speaker 1: Imagine going to a million back doors trying those keys.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I knew the vulnerabilities inside the Microsoft system.
Speaker 1: And so once I understood that, and then from there
Speaker 1: he would sit there and explain to me how to
Speaker 1: actually use you know, all of the different technology and
Speaker 1: them allware, they'll be added to it, and pretty much
Speaker 1: it was. It was a game changer for me because
Speaker 1: I was it was it was lights out because every
Speaker 1: time you would go inside of a store, a lot
Speaker 1: of you don't even realize it, but you take your
Speaker 1: card and imagine you're going in there and you're just
Speaker 1: paying for some milk and some cookies or whatever it mayby. Well,
Speaker 1: when you slide that magnetic strip, that magnetic strip sends
Speaker 1: out a series of codes, which is a track one
Speaker 1: at tracked two, and that information goes to a processor. Well,
Speaker 1: I would get inside of that line and when that
Speaker 1: information would go to the processor, it would also go
Speaker 1: to me and go to the processor and go to me.
Speaker 1: And imagine all of the people that walk in the
Speaker 1: store in the day so you pretty much said, um said,
Speaker 1: access to the terminals that were in the stores. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's surpas the point of sales. Wow. So look, let
Speaker 1: me ask you this. You mentioned that you made money
Speaker 1: off of these cards. How would a person make money
Speaker 1: of a credit card? Pretty much? You know, we use
Speaker 1: a machine, and then I would take that machine and
Speaker 1: you could actually encode any magnetic strip with the code
Speaker 1: of numbers, which is a series of numbers which identifies
Speaker 1: every individual. So let's just say the first track would
Speaker 1: have your name on it, your last name, your first name,
Speaker 1: with a series of numbers, and then there would be
Speaker 1: another one and that would be the being and the
Speaker 1: beginning numbers is the bank identification number, and then a
Speaker 1: series of numbers that would actually lead to that account.
Speaker 1: So I would just use track two track two on everything.
Speaker 1: I made it a lot easier. I didn't need all
Speaker 1: of that, And I would just go into a store
Speaker 1: seven eleven and I would take thirty gift cards that
Speaker 1: was on the shelf that had never been open and
Speaker 1: never been touched, and I just put them in the
Speaker 1: grocery bag and walk out the store with him or
Speaker 1: anywhere I would see them. And then when I would
Speaker 1: get back to my lab, I would just open them
Speaker 1: up and with a program placed on the laptop, it
Speaker 1: would be plugged into a box and whenever I would
Speaker 1: swap into and all of that information Track one, track two, well,
Speaker 1: I would using the only using track two. It would
Speaker 1: be on that card, and from there I would give
Speaker 1: that card to my crew of individuals and they would
Speaker 1: pretty much go on shopping spreeze all day. So you
Speaker 1: guys would go on shopping sprees and pretty much real
Speaker 1: the items that you curate to on those visits, not
Speaker 1: really the item so much. It would just be on
Speaker 1: a shopping spreef for gift cards. So you know, I
Speaker 1: would never sent her brought up in there with some
Speaker 1: booty shorts into you know, Bloomingdale. Actually you had to
Speaker 1: dress the part, so I would make sure that she
Speaker 1: had her hair nice and that she looked like she
Speaker 1: was someone who had five thousand dollar credit card or
Speaker 1: had access to five or ten thousand dollar credit card
Speaker 1: and so much. Pretty much essentially, once she would just
Speaker 1: slide that card, it would ring up the sail and
Speaker 1: then she would buy items to disguise the bigger play.
Speaker 1: The bigger play was the actual gift card. So being
Speaker 1: able to get a five hundred dollar Bloomingdale card, which
Speaker 1: would pretty much retail on the streets for about three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars or to fifty or whatever or a half
Speaker 1: of it. So imagine she got three five hundred dollar
Speaker 1: home depot cards, UM, a few hundred dollar Bloomingdale and
Speaker 1: Norstradale North uh Norstrooms cards, UM walking side of all
Speaker 1: marked and pretty much you could buy these cards when
Speaker 1: you buy another product. So at that time I would
Speaker 1: let them keep all of the merchandise. All I wanted
Speaker 1: was a third or third or third or third for
Speaker 1: me and third for you, a third for the actual
Speaker 1: game pretty much the cost of everything. So it was
Speaker 1: the third or third or third split and so you
Speaker 1: exactly pretty much essentially they would keep two thirds and
Speaker 1: I would keep two thirds. How much money would you
Speaker 1: say this operation was grossing for you a month? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It varies. I mean, because I was sending cards with females,
Speaker 1: you know, the federal government. All of this is documented.
Speaker 1: And also I was selling cards to other individuals. You know,
Speaker 1: I was selling fifty four thousand, so probably about a
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, maybe a hunting if shorter, maybe any anywhere
Speaker 1: around eighty nine somewhere around there. Oh wow, man, so
Speaker 1: you really have a celebrity, you really have an elaboraty
Speaker 1: system going yeah, yeah, okay, so you know you have
Speaker 1: this going on. What was your run? Like, how many
Speaker 1: years was you doing it? Successful? It wasn't a very
Speaker 1: very long run, man, I mean it was probably about
Speaker 1: a good to three year run. And you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a real real long run because you know, I
Speaker 1: guess the element of surprise is the surprise itself. So
Speaker 1: the individual what brought the run pretty much to an
Speaker 1: end is the individual. I never forget there was a
Speaker 1: There was two locations in the Seattle area, and one
Speaker 1: of the locations, you know, I never forget this because
Speaker 1: it's so eerie, and I never forget getting the phone
Speaker 1: call from me said I got two more spots, and
Speaker 1: so he had access to it. And when I went
Speaker 1: inside every and I looked, I said, where did these
Speaker 1: cards come from? And when I'm you know, taking the numbers,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking. By this time, I'm able to look
Speaker 1: at the first three digits of it, and so I
Speaker 1: know what the bank, what banks they are, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: these not regular cards, these are business and corporate cards
Speaker 1: pretty much essentially, and so I'm running them boom, I'm running.
Speaker 1: I walked into a Walmart and I think mont Claire
Speaker 1: Claire Mount, California, and I walked in and I must
Speaker 1: have the boat light four or five PlayStations, and then
Speaker 1: I must have bought about another three or four five
Speaker 1: gift cards myself literally and I'm like, damn, So the
Speaker 1: cards was they was going going going, and um to
Speaker 1: come to find out that the company that they came
Speaker 1: from had went and got a computer forensic expert that
Speaker 1: was able to trace back where the cards where we
Speaker 1: planted the line and trace it all the way back
Speaker 1: to the actual server and trace it all the way
Speaker 1: back to his I P and pretty much once that happened, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was pretty much everything was on a
Speaker 1: on a on a time clock pretty much. And once
Speaker 1: they gathered they gathered enough information and they grabbed him.
Speaker 1: He you know, pretty much relinquished you know, everything and
Speaker 1: pretty much essentially told on me. So yeah, so so
Speaker 1: so he um involved, you went to his mess he
Speaker 1: got caught and pretty much ruled over on you. When
Speaker 1: did you get an ideal? Because I think people normally
Speaker 1: get an ideal they could feel the heat on them.
Speaker 1: Did you feel the heat in the instance, I didn't
Speaker 1: really know. I never forget at the time. UM, you
Speaker 1: know me and you know my son's mother. We was
Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico, and I never forget. I went out
Speaker 1: there for my birthday and I stayed at the Continental Hotel.
Speaker 1: And you know, during my birthday is this elaborate thing
Speaker 1: that they do there where people jump in the ocean
Speaker 1: backwards and they make all of these new resolutions of
Speaker 1: how the rest of the year is gonna be, and
Speaker 1: you know, all of these different epiphanies they begin to have.
Speaker 1: And it's a holiday almost essentially there. And so we
Speaker 1: came back and whenever we came back, I owned a
Speaker 1: motorcycle shop at the present time, and I went to
Speaker 1: the motorcycle shop. And when I went to the motorcycle shop,
Speaker 1: my partner, who was my partner inside of my motorcycle shop,
Speaker 1: he was like, YO, get the funk out of here.
Speaker 1: Federal agents been all over the place. Hearth Thorn, the
Speaker 1: sheriff Department, Towrence, Police Department, UH, the Marshals, the Secret Service.
Speaker 1: They had toward the shop, two smith Rens and um
Speaker 1: they was looking for me, and yeah, I had a
Speaker 1: and then so I had a friend, you know, my
Speaker 1: friend Geo. He called, you know, an officer that he knew,
Speaker 1: and he said, man, they got a twenty two count
Speaker 1: indictment um for guerrilla black out of Seattle. And that's
Speaker 1: how I found out I had a twenty count indictment. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you ever think about running? Man? I wanted to run.
Speaker 1: You know, I stayed here and I had to throw
Speaker 1: my phones away. I threw everything away and try to
Speaker 1: get off of the grid. But pretty much it's the
Speaker 1: FEDS man. So everyone that was associated with me, that
Speaker 1: was inter linked with me, they had under surveillance. So
Speaker 1: you know, imagine I had this motorcycle shop, another motorcycle
Speaker 1: shop too, uh, barbershops, and also office that you know
Speaker 1: at the time my wife and I was running. So
Speaker 1: I had all of these. I have five different businesses
Speaker 1: going on, plus my elicit business, my my real cash cow,
Speaker 1: my credit card hustle. So um, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: thought about running. That was a thought in my mind
Speaker 1: for a long time. But I was like, damn, where
Speaker 1: I'm gonna run to, Like, this is the federal government
Speaker 1: that's I'm going to lead the country, And you know,
Speaker 1: leave my kids, leave everything that I pretty much know.
Speaker 1: So the thought came across my mind. So the thought
Speaker 1: came brout your mind. So when how did the police
Speaker 1: finally how the law enforcement officials finally kick up? Which
Speaker 1: I had got an attorney, and I was talking to
Speaker 1: the attorney, but I didn't understand that they pretty much
Speaker 1: essentially already knew where I was at. So the attorney
Speaker 1: was pretty much keeping them at bay. Um. Eventually I
Speaker 1: would end up getting a paid attorney and working with
Speaker 1: a whole another individual. Um. But I never forget it.
Speaker 1: I Um. I was sitting in there in the living
Speaker 1: room and I was reading the Bible. It's so coincidental.
Speaker 1: And we hear a knock on the door, and my
Speaker 1: wife she got asked for the door. And at this
Speaker 1: time I was living in Palace Verdes, and so here
Speaker 1: the door pump, blah blah boom, and so she like
Speaker 1: black black, black black, And I'm like, what the hell,
Speaker 1: what's going on? And so I walk up and then
Speaker 1: you know, the federal agents, they was all in plain clothes.
Speaker 1: They was all, you know, I'm swing, so from the
Speaker 1: Secret Service. I'm sewing, so from the Secret Service. I'm
Speaker 1: from the Secret Service. I'm from the Secret Service. Charles
Speaker 1: Williamson can used to please step forward, said yeah, are
Speaker 1: you Charles Williamson. And in their hand they had the
Speaker 1: indictment and the Warren as well, and they didn't even
Speaker 1: put no cuffs on me. I looked in front of
Speaker 1: my yard and I've seen six hundred bins is and
Speaker 1: I've seen rain drovers, and all of them was filled
Speaker 1: with federal agents, all of them with Secret Service. They
Speaker 1: literally walked me to the back of a six hundred,
Speaker 1: open the back door and put me in it. And
Speaker 1: along the way back to the Federal building you can
Speaker 1: see those cars swarming around. And we got there. Then
Speaker 1: they took me up there and I never forget. They
Speaker 1: was like, you want to sit down and talk. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, it's been a rough day. Man. I
Speaker 1: just need two things. Man, I need a soft bunk
Speaker 1: man and a pubby meat sandwich. And we ain't got
Speaker 1: nothing else to really say. Okay. So from there processed
Speaker 1: me out, went to the raiment. Following day, they sent
Speaker 1: me up to m d C. And then the Ninth Circuit,
Speaker 1: which is from Seattle. Up there they sent down the
Speaker 1: request to have me uh extradited back up to Seattle
Speaker 1: was so crazy and ironic. Like I said previously, the
Speaker 1: places in which where we got the information from out
Speaker 1: of these two spots in Seattle, and the forensic scientists,
Speaker 1: all of the information that they got, they pretty much
Speaker 1: sent it over to the federal government. And the moment
Speaker 1: that cards was moved over international wire or over over
Speaker 1: you know, these internet communications, it became a federal crime.
Speaker 1: So I couldn't be prosecuted on the state level. It
Speaker 1: became all federal at that time. So it became of fear.
Speaker 1: And if I'm not mistaken in the fits you that time, No,
Speaker 1: it's not a dent. You do eighty seven point five
Speaker 1: percent of it. So, um, yeah, it's eighty seven point
Speaker 1: five percent, you know, even on a non violence such
Speaker 1: as mine. Um. Crazy part about it is is for
Speaker 1: me to get the time that I got, I pretty much,
Speaker 1: you know, to keep a lot of other people that
Speaker 1: was involved with me out of the way, I had
Speaker 1: to give away my appeal rights as long as they
Speaker 1: allowed my family members, you know, to not be caught
Speaker 1: up in you know, my present charges on a conspiracy.
Speaker 1: So pretty much I gave away my appeal rights. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was an honorable thing to do. Um. You know, now,
Speaker 1: when did your sentence you come about? Um? I was
Speaker 1: sentenced actually once they took me into custody. What was
Speaker 1: so crazy is what is the day eighteen two days ago? Yeah,
Speaker 1: would be the anniversary of that day is January sixteenth.
Speaker 1: They took me into federal custody, and I probably I
Speaker 1: got sentenced later that year of two thousand and thirteen October.
Speaker 1: I got sentenced October ten. Um, I was extradited from
Speaker 1: m DC to C Tax C Tax which is Seattle Tacoma, Washington,
Speaker 1: to have a federal holding that's there. So once that happened, Um,
Speaker 1: I never forget. I think his name was Judge Gonzalez,
Speaker 1: and um they pretty much that whole day. Man, I
Speaker 1: was hearing dudes getting sixty months, seventy months, eighty months.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I'm gonna get love. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get love. And UM, I never forget. I wasn't pleaning.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to plead to the twenty million dollars
Speaker 1: in fraug. That was you know, us being slick on
Speaker 1: some on some some nickel slicks. Ship. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: plead to the twenty million. It sounds a lot better
Speaker 1: pleading to thirty thousand credit cards instead of pleading to
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars a fraud. So my attorney got up
Speaker 1: there with the Nickel slicks. Shit. It was like, you know,
Speaker 1: repleating the you know, these thirty thousand credit cards. The
Speaker 1: judge was like, man, I ain't trying to hear that. Man,
Speaker 1: this is a twenty million dollar fraud case, and just
Speaker 1: swatted my attorney like bow. And you know, during this,
Speaker 1: with me signing for open plea, my life is literally
Speaker 1: in the judge's hand. It's not like a regular where
Speaker 1: I'm locked into a set amount of time. I have
Speaker 1: my guidelines, which is a hundred and eight to a
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five months, so the judge can give
Speaker 1: me within that range, or he could go above it.
Speaker 1: During you know, behind the mitigating circumstances. Under one bank
Speaker 1: fraud charge, which I played till over five of them,
Speaker 1: bank frog carries a maximum penalty of thirty years. I
Speaker 1: played the aggravvated identity death Aggravated identity theft carries the
Speaker 1: twenty four mandatory sentence. I played it also to access
Speaker 1: device for aud which is essentially any device that you're
Speaker 1: able to use as a communication vehicle for bank information
Speaker 1: as well, so I never forget it. Man. He was like, um,
Speaker 1: you know what Mr Williams said to do. I can
Speaker 1: give you twenty years and uh man, I mean I
Speaker 1: just felt like my whole life flashed and I'm literally
Speaker 1: sitting here in a black box cuffed, he said. But
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that to you. He said, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give you for these charges right here, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be eighty seven months. And on top of that, I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you another twenty four months for the
Speaker 1: aggravated identity theft, so that's gonna be a hundred and
Speaker 1: ten months. But he said, you ever come back up
Speaker 1: in this courtroom again, I will give you twenty years. Yeh.
Speaker 1: And so where did you do your time that I
Speaker 1: did most of my time and but Loon Park Federal
Speaker 1: Correctional um Institution up there in Long Park, California. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Ceclon Pard that's the Santa Maria, California actually, and
Speaker 1: you were locked there with interesting people, Yeah, definitely, man um.
Speaker 1: The first place where they housed me at was in
Speaker 1: Jay Dorm. And Jay Dorm we call that Loon Park Hills,
Speaker 1: because when you come into the actual yard, there's two
Speaker 1: big buildings that's next door to each other and they've
Speaker 1: been there forever in a day and back then in
Speaker 1: the gap and used to be like they said, a
Speaker 1: military you know site or whatever. But we called it
Speaker 1: the projects because it was the first floor, second floor,
Speaker 1: third floor, and on the other side it was medical.
Speaker 1: Then it was two more floors, and so we called
Speaker 1: it the Projects. And inside was where they had the
Speaker 1: phone booth setting. So this first dorm right here when
Speaker 1: you passed the gym was cater and then when you
Speaker 1: passed the other gate past the barbershop all the way
Speaker 1: to the back, that was Ja Dorman and back there,
Speaker 1: you know, I was in there with you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of interesting characters, but more than you know, the
Speaker 1: one that was the most essential and important man, and
Speaker 1: I got a lot of understanding and a lot of
Speaker 1: mentoring from was Harry oh Man. Uh. I think he
Speaker 1: was a key point for me because I had never
Speaker 1: ran into an individual who was as intelligent and a
Speaker 1: person that had this bevy of knowledge on so many
Speaker 1: different topics and situations and who was well read and
Speaker 1: could communicate itself in a way that was well articulated
Speaker 1: and intelligent. That was something that was unseen in there
Speaker 1: because everybody else was on Niggorish ship, so you know,
Speaker 1: everybody was just playing the phone trying to get a
Speaker 1: bus to send some bread, or do this, a girl
Speaker 1: do that. And I never forget. He was the first
Speaker 1: individual to introduced me to Aggy Mandino. That book Man
Speaker 1: is by African author, and introduced me to everything story
Speaker 1: story book about Jeff Bezo. Just he had were lockers
Speaker 1: full the Levenber books. The man would just have books
Speaker 1: after books after books after books, and he would order
Speaker 1: books and then he would bring him over there and say, baby,
Speaker 1: before read this, and then come back and be like, man,
Speaker 1: let me know what's up with that book, and I'll
Speaker 1: be giving him a summation of pretty much how the
Speaker 1: book broke down. And he already knew that I was
Speaker 1: a fast reader. But you know, the most protective books
Speaker 1: was these books that he had from this African author
Speaker 1: named Agi Mandino. So oh, you already know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about, and I do research it and I haven't
Speaker 1: got two of his books. But Agi Mandino was a dope, dope,
Speaker 1: dope dope writer and he wrote things in these parables.
Speaker 1: So that's what made it so dope with this African author.
Speaker 1: And he was really real protective and I never forget
Speaker 1: UNC pulled up on me, was like, baby boy, you
Speaker 1: finished with that book. And and all of the years,
Speaker 1: almost seven years, I've never seen him that protective about
Speaker 1: books and the book ain't never about this then, But
Speaker 1: those were books I think that he had begun in
Speaker 1: reading at the beginning of his bid. And you know,
Speaker 1: he walked down life in the state that's twenty five.
Speaker 1: He was in the fast serving another nineteen years, so
Speaker 1: you know, um that was those books was definitely incredible,
Speaker 1: and he just introduced me to so many different authors, man,
Speaker 1: just authors that I have never heard of, never you know,
Speaker 1: begin you know, to even think that was super duper dope,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people don't even you know, read
Speaker 1: a lot of the different books that Robert Kiyosaki wrote,
Speaker 1: but one of the dopest books that he wrote was
Speaker 1: Retired Young Retired Rich. I mean, just so many different
Speaker 1: authors that I was able to read, um, you know,
Speaker 1: how to win people, win people and influence people by
Speaker 1: Dale Carnegie. Just all kind of different authors that I
Speaker 1: read up on and just read their books, and he
Speaker 1: introduced me to a lot of them books. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of our people, a lot of the viewers
Speaker 1: out there, have never been to prison before. Give us
Speaker 1: a brief summary of prison life in general. I mean
Speaker 1: prisoners a place based on respect. Everything is dealt from
Speaker 1: a place of respect. Everything is dealt on the place
Speaker 1: of being on man time, and you being a man
Speaker 1: first before any and all things. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: care what kind of squabbles you got, I don't care
Speaker 1: what kind of killer you is. If you go in
Speaker 1: there looking for something, they're gonna give you what you're
Speaker 1: looking for, whatever it is, whatever level you think when
Speaker 1: you go in there on a respectable level, on some
Speaker 1: man time, you know, and whatever adversity come your way,
Speaker 1: you handle it immediately. And a lot of times that's
Speaker 1: you know through you know, whether it's we get down
Speaker 1: going run one or if it needs even be to
Speaker 1: go to another level where we gotta go get that knife.
Speaker 1: You know, however it needs to be dealt with, it's
Speaker 1: gonna get debt with, and it's gonna get dealt with
Speaker 1: quickly and fast. Another thing with prison, especially being around
Speaker 1: a lot of the individuals. Is you gotta go, You
Speaker 1: gotta get a homies, that paperwork, because these are the
Speaker 1: people that you're gonna be living with essentially sometimes a decade,
Speaker 1: sometimes multiple decades. And a dude just want to know
Speaker 1: that you solid you know here on you know, you're
Speaker 1: sitting here eating soups and snacks and fun packs and
Speaker 1: you fucked up. That's that's the ultimate disrespect. If you
Speaker 1: fucked up, you fucked up. Understand that. Understand that this
Speaker 1: ain't the place for you to be. And and when
Speaker 1: you're moving in there, everything is gonna be on respect time.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna What's so crazy is once you see
Speaker 1: that violence jump off, everybody's super respectful because they understand
Speaker 1: that that violence could take place in the in the
Speaker 1: inkling of a second, and that violence come in your life.
Speaker 1: It could mean your asswhoops severely, just in an inkling,
Speaker 1: and in there is just every day it's the monotony
Speaker 1: of doing the same thing over and over all and
Speaker 1: over and over and it's repetitive, and it's you become programmable,
Speaker 1: and you're on a program. So at this time, you
Speaker 1: wake up at four thirty in the morning, at six o'clock,
Speaker 1: you hear the yard call, you do the same thing
Speaker 1: day in day out, you become desensitized to you know,
Speaker 1: you guys, it's a big hoorade for the holidays, but
Speaker 1: when you're away from loved one's family members and you
Speaker 1: in a place whereas Graham and it's dark, you become
Speaker 1: desensitized to it. And the only way you're able to
Speaker 1: get any information or understand what's going on in the
Speaker 1: real world is through need literature that comes through, whether
Speaker 1: it be a newspaper, whether it be magazines, or what
Speaker 1: you see through the bubble, and you're living through a
Speaker 1: bubble pretty much and watching the television. That's the only
Speaker 1: way you know what's going on in the real world
Speaker 1: out there and through phone calls and emails. So that's
Speaker 1: how prison is. It's just on a respect level. Like
Speaker 1: if someone's going to the shower and it's a line
Speaker 1: of closed, you can't just walk and just go in
Speaker 1: to the shower and just take a shower at leisure. No,
Speaker 1: it's people before you, and that I get you caught
Speaker 1: up in wreck immediately. You can't put your hands on
Speaker 1: somebody outside of your race. That will get your ass
Speaker 1: disciplined immediately. You can't eat from somebody else. You can't.
Speaker 1: I don't care how bamba tacos. They look like they're
Speaker 1: over there making you ben I take your ass over
Speaker 1: there and getting none. And that's just how prison is.
Speaker 1: You know where you watch TV, you watch TV, where
Speaker 1: our TVs is at. You know a lot of dudes like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I'm gonna do what. No, no, no, no
Speaker 1: no no. Ain't no man bigger than the program. Ain't
Speaker 1: nobody bigger than the car. No matter how big you is,
Speaker 1: you become this small when you walk into prison because
Speaker 1: all you got is your people and that's it. And
Speaker 1: you're gonna do what they say when they're saying and
Speaker 1: how it's done, and you pretty much you know you won't.
Speaker 1: You you ain't on your time. You you're on the
Speaker 1: cars time. And how it's gonna move, it's how you're
Speaker 1: gonna move. Now, when did you get the news? I
Speaker 1: want to go back to the exact day and the time,
Speaker 1: and how you feel the rare emotions that were running
Speaker 1: through your body when you found out she was getting
Speaker 1: out of prison. Oh wow, I mean I had waited
Speaker 1: for so long and they finally gave me a date,
Speaker 1: And I want to say, it was like April eleven,
Speaker 1: And what it is is is you're waiting for the
Speaker 1: Halfway House to give you a date. So that was
Speaker 1: an emotional thing in itself. And so imagine that rush
Speaker 1: of emotion. And then when COVID came, it pushed that
Speaker 1: date again to May eighteenth. May eighteenth is when of
Speaker 1: is when I walked out of a federal facility. And
Speaker 1: I never forget that morning between my bunk because at
Speaker 1: that time we didn't have access to the yard because
Speaker 1: of the COVID situation and how rampant it was, and
Speaker 1: I had just did a thousand push us right there
Speaker 1: between the bunks, and I jumped in the shower as
Speaker 1: I usually do around that time, and I never forget.
Speaker 1: I heard the officer come up outside of the booth,
Speaker 1: Williams six three one seven four one one too, Williamson
Speaker 1: roll that ship up, and I said, roll it up.
Speaker 1: And so homies just converged on me, and everything was
Speaker 1: pretty much dispensed out. You know, all your belongings pretty
Speaker 1: much is you know, spoken fold, all your comrades and friends.
Speaker 1: You know, the homie get these shoes, he get these books,
Speaker 1: these headphones, go over there to him, all of these
Speaker 1: soups go to homie over there, everything pretty much has
Speaker 1: already spoken for before you go. So everything was spoken
Speaker 1: fold and everybody converged and you know, hugs and you
Speaker 1: know smiles, you know, and that moment your stomach just
Speaker 1: bubbling and rumbling, like damn, I'm gonna go home, my
Speaker 1: nigga finally, Like I never forget that feeling, like just
Speaker 1: the excitement, the rush, just like damn at you'd be
Speaker 1: scared at the same time though too, like you know,
Speaker 1: like damn, what the funk like because you've become I
Speaker 1: don't like to saying like this, but it's like a
Speaker 1: low key home. So you used to this environment, you
Speaker 1: used to doing things this way. You used to I know,
Speaker 1: the showers, I got the showers, I got this bunk.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of it's a taboo to people who
Speaker 1: have never been there, but for somebody who've been there,
Speaker 1: you know, you've become accustomed to and so that fear
Speaker 1: comes in. And even though the excitement is the first rush,
Speaker 1: but then it's like an excitement slash fiery emotion like
Speaker 1: oh ship, oh ship, damn damn, but the excitement is
Speaker 1: still They're like damn, what I'm gonna eat. What I'm
Speaker 1: gonna dude, I'm gonna get some pussy. I wanted to drinks,
Speaker 1: have me a drink, you know. So it was just
Speaker 1: a whole ball of emotions, man, a whole ball of them.
Speaker 1: Like like, man, it's like getting a brand new car,
Speaker 1: you know. Prison. Actually I didn't get picked up from prison. Um.
Speaker 1: What happens is is that, uh, I ended up catching
Speaker 1: They gave me a bus. They give you a two
Speaker 1: dollar They gave me a two hundred dollar card, and
Speaker 1: they give you two hundred dollars. And then on top
Speaker 1: of the two hundred dollars, I had got all the
Speaker 1: money that was on my books from you know, my
Speaker 1: activities in there, but all of it is put on
Speaker 1: a card and so pretty much they give you a
Speaker 1: bus um ticket. So the van puts you in the
Speaker 1: van and then they drive you to the bus station.
Speaker 1: So when I got to the bus station, I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I must have walked damn near fifteen Literally, I walked
Speaker 1: like fifteen blocks, and I never forget. I walked right
Speaker 1: into a CVS and I bought you know, at that time,
Speaker 1: I had never you know, it's different now I've been
Speaker 1: out for a while, but I've seen the phone and
Speaker 1: it was in the pack and I'm like, it's twenty dollars.
Speaker 1: But I got bought the phone. Boom boop. Walked all
Speaker 1: the way back to the bus station because my bus
Speaker 1: didn't come until later, and that bus take you to
Speaker 1: the downtown Greyhound station. So you know, I'm so out
Speaker 1: of the loop. You just imagine being gone for nine years.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to operate none of this ship
Speaker 1: when I when I left, it was still buttons on
Speaker 1: phones and ship. It wasn't no Facebook, was no Instagram. Really,
Speaker 1: Facebook had just really started pretty much. So um, the
Speaker 1: dude took my phone. He was from the camp and
Speaker 1: he just threw the program to put the card on
Speaker 1: there and I was able to make a phone call
Speaker 1: the hot and uh, how had me this extra bomb
Speaker 1: uber to come pick me up like a limo uber
Speaker 1: and all that ship food and all kind of stuff
Speaker 1: up in there for me. So my brother was the
Speaker 1: first one to in gratiate. Make sure you know I
Speaker 1: was straight this best bomb man. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: what did you eat when you first good out? What
Speaker 1: did I eat? Damn? It seemed like what did I eat?
Speaker 1: What was the first thing that I ate? I wait
Speaker 1: a minute, what did I eat? He sent me some food?
Speaker 1: I had some food he sent in the uber. It
Speaker 1: was like a breakfast or something like that, a bomb
Speaker 1: ass breakfast, and so I ate that on the way
Speaker 1: to the half house because I only had twenty four
Speaker 1: hours to get to the halfway house. So that night
Speaker 1: I was just so in thralled with the phone. I
Speaker 1: just stayed at the bus station. And so when he
Speaker 1: sent the Uber Deluxe or whatever it was it suv
Speaker 1: do with the little like a little limb or whatever not.
Speaker 1: So I think it was like a breakfast in there,
Speaker 1: and I ate all of that ship. And that was
Speaker 1: the first, uh street food I had ate because I
Speaker 1: didn't eat anything at the bus station or at the
Speaker 1: other bus station, So it was like a like a
Speaker 1: breakfast thing or whatever. Not. Now, before we end, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you a very important question. I want
Speaker 1: you to think about a little bit with the prison
Speaker 1: cost you. Wow, you know, my crime was worth twenty
Speaker 1: million dollars twenty million, twenty million, that's what the government
Speaker 1: charged me. My actual loss was far less, but the
Speaker 1: price that was even greater than the twenty million when
Speaker 1: you take a look at it on a deeper level
Speaker 1: and scale. So I took thirty thousand credit cards. So
Speaker 1: these thirty thousand credit cards belonged to thirty thousand people
Speaker 1: at one point or another that went somewhere and probably
Speaker 1: tried to swipe that card, whether it was a soccer
Speaker 1: mom pulling up to McDonald's with her kids, just trying
Speaker 1: to get something to eat for our kids going after school,
Speaker 1: and trying to swipe that card, and it declined, that's
Speaker 1: one of the thirty thousand people. My children we're left
Speaker 1: without leadership, without father, without guidance. My mother was left
Speaker 1: without her son. My brothers were left without counsel, My
Speaker 1: wife was left without a spouse and a provider and
Speaker 1: a love. And me I was inside of a federal
Speaker 1: correctional facility. I once read a thing said that rich
Speaker 1: people measure riches and materialism, but the wealthy measure wealth
Speaker 1: and time. So when you understand time is the most
Speaker 1: valuable commodity that one could have, that every fortune five
Speaker 1: company is trying to commoditize. Then information, then leverage, and
Speaker 1: then part of leverage would be money. M I gave away.
Speaker 1: I traded nine years, two months for twenty million dollars
Speaker 1: in fraud. The people, the places, the connections, the relationships
Speaker 1: that I could have created and made, the time with
Speaker 1: my children, all of that was lost. My grandmother used
Speaker 1: to say that when we die, we die with our memories.
Speaker 1: We don't take nothing else from this earth. We take
Speaker 1: with us our memories. Imagine there was no winner. Everybody lost.
Speaker 1: My children lost, my wife lost, the thirty thousand people
Speaker 1: who owned those cards lost, my brother's loss, and most
Speaker 1: of all I was lost. It was much much. The
Speaker 1: time I gave away was the most valuable things that
Speaker 1: one could have. I can't go back and get back
Speaker 1: a nine years two months of my life. You gotta realize,
Speaker 1: even though our life seemed like it's long, man, this
Speaker 1: ship short. I'd have lost so many people to natural
Speaker 1: causes or violent deaths while I was in and all
Speaker 1: the way to now. You can't get back time. You
Speaker 1: could always get money, like we were just previously saying
Speaker 1: ship poor is temporary, but I mean being broke is temporary,
Speaker 1: but poor is eternal forever. I can easily go get
Speaker 1: some money, but I can't go get back that time.
Speaker 1: I can't