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Speaker 1: Request Left show is a production of iHeart radio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot lie to you and say

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Speaker 2: that our guest today has had some sort of hand

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Speaker 2: and luring my very band to a certain label called

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Speaker 2: GEFN DGC, even long before we met. As the co

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Speaker 2: founder of the legendary band Sonic Youth, our guests has

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Speaker 2: crafted a movement for more than four decades, inspiring anyone

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Speaker 2: worth their grain of salt of greatness. Name them Nirvana's

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Speaker 2: Magic Pumpkins, Pixie's Pavement, Dinosaur Jr. Pro Jam, Whole Radiohead Sugar.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: I mean this is the definition of when you hear

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Speaker 2: people say like your artist's favorite or that meta rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: Our guests and bodies that today she said countless of

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Speaker 2: I be here all day. We even just talk about

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Speaker 2: the collaborations, always pushing the boundaries of creativity and staying fresh.

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Speaker 2: An architect of patron, saint of many movements, pioneer of

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Speaker 2: the downtown scene. Are you embarrassed when we come with

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Speaker 2: way too many superlatives like.

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Speaker 3: She's long for the daylight? Ladies and gentlemen, you.

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Speaker 4: Can check out the imposter syndrome.

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Speaker 3: For sure, I get the coolest bass player ever. Thank

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Speaker 3: you Kem Gordon for coming to the Quest Left Show.

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Speaker 3: Appreciate it. How WI great to see you. All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I want to start with because I

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Speaker 2: know that oftentimes there's the battle the idea of you

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Speaker 2: versus what you feel is the authentic you. So to

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Speaker 2: break the ice, I always wanted to ask you this,

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me three things that you think are

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Speaker 2: uncool about you?

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Speaker 4: Well? I guess mostly like I don't think I'm cool,

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Speaker 4: like I do battle like this kind of feeling of

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Speaker 4: awkwardness to some extent, you know, unless I'm in a

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Speaker 4: flow of working or doing something. You know, like I

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Speaker 4: have a basket of different socks that I wish I

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Speaker 4: could just get rid of and start over.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know what, Actually, it's funny you

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Speaker 2: mentioned that I kind of did that last week. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why I decided to just have a sea

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Speaker 2: change of all my T shirts, mind to wear my socks.

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Speaker 2: I decided getting rid of whatever has collectively like just

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Speaker 2: been there for the last decade and a half and

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Speaker 2: just start over fresh. I don't know if that's my

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Speaker 2: version of just getting a new haircut. I'm gonna change

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Speaker 2: mind to where it started.

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Speaker 3: Actually, you know, it's weird.

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Speaker 2: I probably met you in the most ideal way whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: So when you walk in a room, do you feel

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Speaker 2: sort of self conscious because you know that there's an

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Speaker 2: expected cool factor that we've tagged on you? Or do

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Speaker 2: you just feel like you just blend in and no

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Speaker 2: one knows that you've walked in?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I pretty much don't think anyone's gonna know who I am.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so am I allowed to say where we first met?

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Speaker 3: Where we were at a.

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Speaker 2: New Year's e party at uh Natasha, right Natasha's house.

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Speaker 2: It was so spot on and cliche that I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course, Kim Gordon just walks into a Neyear's party

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Speaker 2: inside in Natasha's house and is the coolest person in

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Speaker 2: the room. Literally, like seven of us like just hushed

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Speaker 2: down and then almost felt like our pressure was getting

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Speaker 2: to you because I wanted to say something to you,

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Speaker 2: but then I was like, no, she's probably in her

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Speaker 2: head right now, so I didn't say it.

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Speaker 3: But then eventually I did talk to you.

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Speaker 2: But do you often feel that we're talking like geeking

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Speaker 2: out over you?

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Speaker 3: Or just no?

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Speaker 4: I mean honestly, like, I think that's that's the last

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Speaker 4: thing I think, okay, And I'm kind of a shy person,

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Speaker 4: so people maybe expect me to be different, so they

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Speaker 4: think I'm cool because well, I'm not saying a lot.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you, what's the best compliment you've ever

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Speaker 2: received that you actually received it without like the imposter

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Speaker 2: syndrome like sort of ducking out.

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Speaker 4: Gosh, I don't know. I mean, I know someone said

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Speaker 4: from my last record that I was a genre on

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Speaker 4: to myself, which I guess I relate to that, okay,

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Speaker 4: because I don't really like to think in terms of

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Speaker 4: music genres or anyway.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was going to ask later, when you create,

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Speaker 2: are you sort of of the moment you don't know

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen the second that you whatever you

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Speaker 2: deemed your studio home base, do you know what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen? Or are you a person that has to

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Speaker 2: like pre plant way ahead of time?

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Speaker 3: And then no, I'd.

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Speaker 4: Like spontaneity and improvisation a lot. So I mean when

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Speaker 4: I work with Justin, like, he'll send me some you know,

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Speaker 4: beats and things, and I'll figure out what it is

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Speaker 4: I feel drawn to and then you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: write some lyrics. But then when I go in and

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Speaker 4: put guitar down to make it kind of messier. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's like having a white canvas, like you can't it's

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Speaker 4: hard to paint on a white canvas.

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Speaker 3: You have to right anyway.

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Speaker 4: And then I'll but I'll tend to not really know

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Speaker 4: exactly where things are going to fall. And then sometimes

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Speaker 4: I'll just think, will just come out of my mouth,

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Speaker 4: you know, Okay, what the hell is that?

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me?

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Speaker 2: What are the things that you did in the first

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes of your day today?

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Speaker 4: Well, I guess I looked at my stupid phone. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm saying it. A friends my galleries, and so I

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Speaker 4: went down on made tea and I talked to her.

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Speaker 4: She just came back from the Miami Yard for her and.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, this is rather random non sequitor. But

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Speaker 2: I'll just ask what is the bravest thing that you

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Speaker 2: think you've ever done?

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Speaker 4: That's a tough one. I guess the bravest thing maybe

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Speaker 4: was deciding to become pregnant and have a baby. It's

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Speaker 4: sort of like a world of unknown.

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Speaker 2: I want advice on that. I want advice on that

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Speaker 2: because of all the members of the roots, I'm the one.

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Speaker 3: That's childless still, okay, because I still.

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Speaker 2: Think in terms of like, ah, this will slow me down.

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Speaker 2: Oh this has slowed me down. But I'll also say

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Speaker 2: that me coming to grips with that level of vulnerability,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm a very calculated or if I fail,

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Speaker 2: I need to perfect this verse.

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Speaker 3: I'm not.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're the manual instructions for this, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like that's one of the things where you just

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Speaker 2: have to fuck it, like just let it happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: right now, I'm probably as close as I've ever been

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Speaker 2: to just like what else is left?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Dog, you did everything, Like it's not going to get

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Speaker 2: more perfect than this.

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Speaker 3: What was that feeling like really just giving in?

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Speaker 2: Because I'm actually asking from an advice standpoint, how do

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Speaker 2: you allow yourself the vulnerability to accept that type of love?

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, it's just like, you know,

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Speaker 4: first of all, you you only live once that we know,

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Speaker 4: so I don't know. I just felt like, oh, there's

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Speaker 4: just like a whole set of experiences and there's something

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Speaker 4: about when you have someone to take care of that's

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Speaker 4: really dependent on you. It takes you out of your head,

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Speaker 4: you know, in a nice way, and it's kind of

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Speaker 4: you know, it's funend I do. I mean, yes, obviously,

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Speaker 4: of course I highly recommend it. I'm not sure I

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Speaker 4: recommend having more than one. I only had one. But

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if you're like travel of you know,

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Speaker 4: you work a lot, you know, it's difficult. I think

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Speaker 4: it's harder for women because as equal as your relationship

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Speaker 4: can be, it's still kind of a lot falls to

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Speaker 4: the the mama somehow, you know, scheduling, Like you have

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Speaker 4: a certain urgency towards your when your baby cries because

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Speaker 4: it's hungry, Like you just want that's to stop, you know.

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Speaker 2: Can you still be creative and balance? I think that's

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Speaker 2: the thing that I fear the most. Like I'm so

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Speaker 2: detail oriented that I almost feel as though I have to.

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Speaker 3: That's a bad metaphor to you.

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Speaker 2: I always use the term throw the baby out with

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Speaker 2: the bath water, but meaning just in terms of of

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Speaker 2: making sure that I'm one hundred percent present. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: I just always figured you can't serve two gods in

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Speaker 2: the way that creativity is to me, for like music

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Speaker 2: and fulfilming, all those things that I spend way too

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Speaker 2: many hours doing that. But this is the closest I've

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Speaker 2: ever been to just.

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Speaker 4: Like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it is a

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Speaker 4: big change, but you still manage to do everything pretty much,

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Speaker 4: you know, you just have to be more efficient, like

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Speaker 4: you have different priorities, I suppose, and I don't know.

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Speaker 4: My daughter's thirty one now, like you never really stop

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Speaker 4: worrying about your child. I have to say, yeah, that's difficult,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you remember the very first creative project that

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Speaker 2: you've ever done in life?

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Speaker 4: When I was in kindergarten, I went to this lab

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Speaker 4: school at UCLA where you sort of learned by doing.

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Speaker 4: And I mean in kindergarten, right, you don't do that much.

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Speaker 4: But we made clay elephants, like I learned the system,

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Speaker 4: like I was good with my hands, I guess, And

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Speaker 4: then so I guess that was my first creative Then

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Speaker 4: when I went to first grade, they had me go

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Speaker 4: back and teach the kindergarteners how to do it.

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Speaker 2: So obviously your love for visual arts was early in

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Speaker 2: this sort.

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Speaker 3: Of yeah informed, Yeah, it basically.

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Speaker 4: Just sounds cliche, but yeah, I always just wanted to

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Speaker 4: be an artist. Gotcha, I just fell into playing music.

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Speaker 2: So all right, Well, for me, I you know, gun

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Speaker 2: to my head, I probably would say I'm a DJ

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Speaker 2: more than anything. And maybe I forged this career in

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Speaker 2: a band so I could make money so I could

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Speaker 2: buy more records to be a DJ.

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Speaker 3: So but for you, you still you feel as though the.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like visual arts or tangible arts or

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Speaker 2: that that's your true first love, like as a creator.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I mean I kind of think of myself

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Speaker 4: it's hard to explain, but as an artist first, like

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Speaker 4: an artist who makes music or an artist who writes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, artists first.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't think of myself as just It's

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Speaker 4: not exactly the same as just being a creative I

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Speaker 4: just I think spatially in a way.

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Speaker 2: What's the transferable creative talent that you have that the

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Speaker 2: world doesn't know about? Like you play basketball? Are you

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Speaker 2: a gamer? What's your cooking skills?

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Speaker 4: Like? I don't know I am a good cook? I

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Speaker 4: don't know. I just I think I have a good

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Speaker 4: special sense.

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Speaker 3: That's a talent in terms of like functional and energy

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Speaker 3: in a room.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I think what I like about playing music

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Speaker 4: in a way is like I was kind of wanted

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Speaker 4: to be a dancer at what point in my life?

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Speaker 4: And uh, I know, it's just there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: moving around on the stage, you know, and like you

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Speaker 4: have a sense of how you can bring something different

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Speaker 4: to what would be an expected rock show or something

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Speaker 4: by how you move and where you move and things

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Speaker 4: like that.

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Speaker 2: All right, So in your position in a band, an

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Speaker 2: iconic band, who's your north star? As a bass player,

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Speaker 2: who's in your mind? You're vicariously living through? Like I know,

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Speaker 2: I see the flea effect now with kids, were like

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you have a bunch of these

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Speaker 2: balancy kind of I'm like, okay, I know what you

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Speaker 2: grew up with.

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Speaker 3: But for you, who was your north star?

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Speaker 4: I actually liked a bass player of in DNA, this

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Speaker 4: guy Tim Wright.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: He used to play in his socks and he kind

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Speaker 4: of used a guitar like the way held he almost

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Speaker 4: held it sideways.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and he would turn it's a weapon turn a lot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Okay, But I don't play bass so much anymore, like

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Speaker 4: I've been. I haven't played bass since the last Sonic

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Speaker 4: Youth gig.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but what was that also.

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Speaker 4: But he was he was. He definitely inspired me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, gotcha and Sid Vicious, right of course?

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Speaker 2: Of course, what are the first three records that you

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Speaker 2: remember purchasing?

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Speaker 4: Well, there's it's probably like a Beatles single, okay, but

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Speaker 4: I don't remember which one. Like I used to walk

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Speaker 4: up to the record store I lived in West LA

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Speaker 4: and you know, ask is what's it's the new single out?

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Speaker 4: You know? Okay, it's a new Beatles single out.

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Speaker 3: So Beatles forty five would.

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Speaker 5: Be one of them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I had a Roy Orbison single. I think pretty Women.

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Speaker 4: I had a Rolling Stones record, okay, like the first one. Maybe.

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Speaker 3: Well let me ask what three records that you own?

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Speaker 3: Do you think that we would be shocked that you

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Speaker 3: listen to Tusk?

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Speaker 2: I remember the day that Tusk came out, and it

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Speaker 2: was like a marching band song, right, like they used

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Speaker 2: marching band drums in the title track.

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Speaker 3: And it was a double album. I remember them, not

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Speaker 3: like is it a triple It.

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Speaker 2: Was a double album, but I remember them. It came

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Speaker 2: out with I was nine, right, so I don't have

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Speaker 2: like real time memories, but I remember them panning the

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Speaker 2: shit out that record.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, people hated that record.

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Speaker 2: So do you gravitate towards what we're not supposed to?

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Speaker 4: Like, Well, that's funny. I mean I didn't actually get

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Speaker 4: into that record to like two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 3: But did you get into it because everyone else didn't

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Speaker 3: like it?

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know, Like it's funny. My friend Bill Nace,

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Speaker 4: who have this guitar improvtu I would. I don't know

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Speaker 4: whether he just found it like in our shelf and

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Speaker 4: he started playing it. We both just became obsessed with

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Speaker 4: it and listened to it endlessly, And I have to

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Speaker 4: say it's like the worst cover art ever, right, which

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Speaker 4: I think was super expensive and yeah, way over budget

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Speaker 4: the whole thing. But I don't know, is something about

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Speaker 4: that record it reminds me I need to go home

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Speaker 4: and play I've heard it in a while now.

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Speaker 2: For me, I think that I'm curious about departure records.

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Speaker 2: When I first started teaching at NYU, I'm always interested

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Speaker 2: in the psychological angle, Like Okay, sly Stone has.

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Speaker 4: That's a great documentary. By the way, Oh thank you

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Speaker 4: both of your documentaries.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like Slide had such pop success with stand that,

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Speaker 2: why does he do this dark ass record or why

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Speaker 2: would Prince follow up Purple Range with Around the World

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Speaker 2: on the Day? What did Fleetwood Macfield after the rise

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Speaker 2: of rumors, like, you know, to not ruin it, but

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Speaker 2: not say you're scared so that you know this departure,

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Speaker 2: I'm in a backfire for the Beatles, like Sergeant Peppers

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Speaker 2: was hey, let's do show tunes and timpan Alley and

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Speaker 2: it backfired. Yeah, So I'm always curious that when a

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Speaker 2: band gets to that place where they're so big, do

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Speaker 2: they follow up?

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Speaker 3: I know this is a weird take.

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Speaker 2: I admire Michael Jackson for trying to even think that

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Speaker 2: he could top thriller like, oh, forty million, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: try one hundred million, which, yes, the quantity.

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Speaker 3: Of it all is what. I also feel.

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Speaker 2: Michael Jackson away literally and air quotes, but I actually

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Speaker 2: admire the balls for him to actually say, now, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to do the cover record, or let me

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Speaker 2: do my jazz record or my Joni Mitchell FaZe like

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Speaker 2: whatever that is.

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Speaker 5: So that'd be interesting, right, What is your all time

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Speaker 5: favorite food?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like I like so many so much.

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Speaker 4: I like, like maybe sobaz Okay, you know, I love

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Speaker 4: French food too, you know, actually soup to poison last night.

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Speaker 4: It was delicious, okay, but I there was something about

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Speaker 4: so much to me that's so kind of pure okay

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Speaker 4: and delicious.

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Speaker 3: Gotcha. What's the last thing that you made for yourself?

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Speaker 4: It was not probably roast chicken?

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Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah, So keeping with the fringe, fancy, what's your

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Speaker 3: all time favorite cereal?

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Speaker 4: Paleo Grinella him erewhon.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even the way you sold it to me was

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Speaker 3: like cool?

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Speaker 4: Really, I mean I don't really eat cereal?

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Speaker 3: You educated Cereal? I get it.

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Speaker 4: There's yeah, yeah, I don't know. I just I basically

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Speaker 4: don't feel like I've eaten anything if I have a Cereal?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's a lot.

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Speaker 2: What TV show best describes your childhood, oh man? Or

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Speaker 2: what TV show did you ever fantasize being a part.

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Speaker 4: Of I loved Mister ed Talking Horse?

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Speaker 3: That was your favorite?

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Speaker 4: It was one of my favorites. Yeah, that in seventy

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Speaker 4: seven Sunset strip? When is that older?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: In fact, I would drive down Sunset trying to find

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Speaker 4: the spot where.

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Speaker 3: The opening yeah the opening was?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, where's words? Kookie or whatever his name is?

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Speaker 3: Got it?

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Speaker 2: Do you binge watch anything on television now, like, have

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Speaker 2: you adapted to streaming culture?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: I what's your favorite ure? Well?

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Speaker 4: I really enjoyed Line of Duty.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's a.

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Speaker 4: BBC cop show about police corruption. I like all those

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Speaker 4: shows about police corruption and were.

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Speaker 3: You a Wirehead?

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Speaker 4: The Wire? I mean yeah, those those are the classic shows,

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Speaker 4: you know, got It, Got the Wires? Maybe my all

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Speaker 4: time favorite show, Gotcha?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: In your childhood bedroom the posters ever adorn your wall?

352
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Speaker 3: Who adorned your wall in your childhood bedroom?

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Speaker 4: I think Dylan probably?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, what era Dylan are you most loyal to?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Only the early stuff. I actually don't really like

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Speaker 4: anything after nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 2: All right, so you're you're not a self portrait. I

358
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,239
Speaker 2: came into Dylan weird. My parents became the way that,

359
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 2: like Reagan's Christian America just washed over the black community.

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Speaker 2: My introduction to Dylan was Christian Dylan.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, I don't even know if I know

362
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Speaker 4: Christian Dylan.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, Like to this day, I'm the only

364
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: when I told him, like, when you're going to wake

365
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 2: up like his on the yellow slow train coming like

366
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Speaker 2: I told him that, and he just looked at me,

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00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: like I'm so sorry, Wow, Well, yeah, I started with

368
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: his three Christian awn period and I think what I

369
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 2: think Infidels broke that in eighty three. But I always

370
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Speaker 2: get into the wrong rock album for every band, Like

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Speaker 2: you know, you asked eight year old me, I'll be like, yeah,

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00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 2: man Satanam Majesty's requests, it's cool, right, was like yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: But I just always as a cool cover. Yes, there

374
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: you go, that's there, that's their one saving grace. But

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00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 2: you know, as I got older, then, of course there

376
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Speaker 2: were people that set me straight.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I picked.

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Speaker 4: I had an older brother too. He sort of make

379
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 4: fun of me, like you don't know what he's talking about. Really,

380
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 4: it's like, who does know what Dylan was actually talk

381
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 4: came about?

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Speaker 3: Were you the family black Sheep in terms of like

383
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 3: your tastes.

384
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 4: And no, not at all.

385
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 3: Oh they were. There were more that were.

386
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 4: Well, my brother was super eccentric person who later became schizophrenic,

387
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 4: but and he was always getting into trouble.

388
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: Okay, So.

389
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 4: I was a goody goody one.

390
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Speaker 3: Do you remember the first concert you ever attended?

391
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Speaker 4: Actually, the first concert I ever went to was in

392
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Speaker 4: Hong Kong when I was living there, when I was twelve.

393
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 4: It was Herman's Hermit's.

394
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Speaker 3: On an army base or no, it was my dad.

395
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Speaker 4: Was a professor ATLA and he took some students there

396
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Speaker 4: to start a study program at the college Chinese University,

397
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 4: and they came while we were there and played. Yeah,

398
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 4: they did a concert.

399
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Speaker 3: I now know that when you do worldwide like, people were.

400
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: Somewhat different now, but yeah, I know that back then, like,

401
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: concerts were very different in terms.

402
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 4: Of I mean, I actually don't remember, okay very much.

403
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 4: I remember like in the the hotel bars there that

404
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 4: sort of pretty young Chinese girls would wear boufont dresses

405
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 4: and play beetle covers.

406
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So this is different than the first records

407
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: you owned because CD culture came later. Do you remember

408
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: the very first CD that you purchased?

409
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 4: Ah? No, thank you. CDs are just like you know,

410
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 4: they might have been things we blagged from the record

411
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 4: label or something, you know, right.

412
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I was going to say, oh wait a minute,

413
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: so I asked, we sad this question, So I got

414
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: to ask you this question. Another main reason why there's

415
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: so much reverence and respect for you guys is simply

416
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: because of the insane amount of times that Sonic Youth

417
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: Records have fed the roots in terms of okay, and

418
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: but by you saying what you said, I know that

419
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: this isn't just something that's unique to me, which is

420
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: you always visit the record label, You go into the

421
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: supply closet, you take all the CDs right, and then

422
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: you go to the village and sell them the bleaker

423
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: bobs and then you know, Weezer said that they too

424
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: lived off of the Blue Album and Piggerton by selling

425
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: their own CDs too.

426
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 4: Oh that's funny. I mean we when we first signed

427
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 4: to Geffen or we took a bunch of stuff like

428
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: like the guns and roses, welcome mat It's like Madonna

429
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 4: candles and.

430
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: The shame. I felt like, hey, what's that over there?

431
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: And like you like the pink panthers.

432
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: Like us, you know, like the trench coat with three

433
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: people stacked on top of each other, Like that's us.

434
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: Like take your shit out of the studio just to

435
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 2: get money on Fridays.

436
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say, ah, ecstasy, Sonic Youth.

437
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 4: Just I can't believe that we influenced your decision to

438
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 4: signed a gun.

439
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's weird.

440
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: I had a manager that so something happened like around

441
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: ninety to ninety three where he realized that because of

442
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: us being a band, that that opened more doors than

443
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: like there was no hip hop whatsoever really in Philly

444
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: except for like specialized what about Yeah, But he would

445
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: have to play rap shows and we got like the

446
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: last days of like Nirvana being the household secret, like

447
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: they play j C. Dobbs maybe a month before we

448
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: played j C.

449
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: Dobbs.

450
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 2: So I think that my manager figured out a way

451
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: that by ninety three ninety four, certain hip hop groups

452
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: could sort of fit on the alternative stages, so like

453
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: us doing Lollapalooza or anything with Jay's Addiction or anything

454
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 2: with like just that first, Like you guys are probably

455
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: the only guys that we didn't open for, but pretty

456
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: much a big.

457
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: Part of our growing as a group.

458
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: Number one, whenever Wu Tang would mess up, we'd be

459
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: the band of the call, Hey Wu ta claim's not

460
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: going to make it next week to da da Da

461
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: da da ke you guys feeling, So that was like

462
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: half of it, and then the other half would just

463
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: be us being the open act, like like Cypress Hill

464
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: and public Andomy really had to pay almost a tiny

465
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: credibility price because the rule was rap groups should only

466
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: be a rap shows only, and if you're not with

467
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: if you're opening for you too, if you're selling out,

468
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: like right, right, So those guys called major flack and

469
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 2: then around ninety.

470
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 3: Three like no one cared anymore. That's when we arrived

471
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: and literally like oh interesting, right when the sea change happened.

472
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: Have you ever gone karaoke? Never? You've never gone karaoke?

473
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: No, Okay, to be fair, I've only been twice in

474
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: my life, and I think both times we're in Japan.

475
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: But I head scratched at people that love karaoke because

476
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: it's like, I tell my perform for a living so

477
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: and to me, the only enjoyable karaoke is when people

478
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: sound horrible. So that would never happen, so you would

479
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: never be course whatsoever.

480
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: To Yeah, I did. I did a song, a cover

481
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: song that way for Addicted to Love. You know, they

482
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 4: just have these this booth on Saint Mark's Okay, So

483
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: I went there and I did that. And it was

484
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 4: when the band was in the studio making shit up

485
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: for the Weddy album, right, And I was kind of

486
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 4: not down with that because it was just three guys

487
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,239
Speaker 4: like wasting lime, gotcha? And then I took that and

488
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 4: actually took it back to the studio. We sped it

489
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: up a little, and then I went to Macy's and

490
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: made a video because I used to have these for

491
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety nine. You could go in and yeah, it

492
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: tell us my favorite video. Just so great to like

493
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: walk out pay nineteen ninety nine and have a two

494
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 4: camera shoot.

495
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: Right. Okay, what song do you love that you think

496
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: everybody hates? Of our songs or a vinye song creator?

497
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 4: Jeez, that's a tough question.

498
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: Okay, have you ever made a mixtape for someone?

499
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 4: I did make a mixtape for some actor once.

500
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 3: Okay, remember what was on it?

501
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: Sorry?

502
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: All right? If you were to make me a mixtape

503
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: with three songs would have to be on it? Having

504
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: not really known me, well, I.

505
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 4: Guess I would put a Brigitte Fontaine our ensemble of

506
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: I forget the name of the record, but.

507
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: Have you of Chicago or yeah, I might own it.

508
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 4: They did an improv session together, Okay, Okay, noy the

509
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 4: Pink record?

510
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: Okay?

511
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: Can I ask what song has the power to make

512
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: you cry no matter how many times you hear it?

513
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: Instantly? Maybe?

514
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 4: Uh, Cortes the Killer.

515
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: What is it about it?

516
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 4: No, yeah, I don't know. It's just like the melody.

517
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 4: It's like what he hits this one, you know something?

518
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: Okay, when this gives me to this day and I'm

519
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: I'm mad that it's not as accessible. But the Philadelphia

520
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: song that Neil Young sings, I know people know the

521
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 2: Streets of Philadelphia by Springsteen for that soundtrack, but when

522
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: the credits go up, Neil Young has I mean, you know,

523
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: like he has a very heartbreaking sounding like sensitive voice.

524
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: But Neil Young singing his version of Philadelphia that has

525
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the Springsteen version it is.

526
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: It is like one of the most heartbreaking.

527
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: I have to check it out.

528
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: One time I had to make a funeral mix and

529
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: I thought.

530
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: We put me moody sass songs on there, and it

531
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: came up and I realized I overdid it, so like

532
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: me running back to the ipile.

533
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: Like trying to turn something else on.

534
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So I feel like your Downtown scene you'r Hashtager

535
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: quote Downtown scene is well for me. The neo soul

536
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: scene was supposed to be where I don't know if

537
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: I owned it. I did completely disown it. But for you,

538
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: what's one of the biggest myths of the downtown scene

539
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: that you always hear that never happened.

540
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: Well, you know, in the eighties, especially early eighties, people

541
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: from Europe always wanted to come and do articles about

542
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 4: the crossover between the music scene and the art world,

543
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: which kind of didn't exist. I mean, it did exist

544
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 4: in the very early eighties, like during the kind of

545
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: the height of No Way Fans, and there were a

546
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 4: lot of young artists who you know, were drawn and

547
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 4: kind of part of that scene. But then by the

548
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: mid eighties they were kind of just into their careers,

549
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 4: you know, our careers, and and it was so it

550
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 4: wasn't really what people thought it was in terms of

551
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: this mecha like it was super bleak in the eighties,

552
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 4: you know. Also, but that part is kind of I

553
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: guess I can be nostalgic about that a little bit.

554
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: Who coined the term no wave and is that really truly?

555
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: Is it possible?

556
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: Like is it just rejecting the idea of a title

557
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: or is it kind of like you know, in the

558
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: filmmaking world, where you know, Dog one ninety five was

559
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: supposed to be this like restrictive movement and whatnot, Like,

560
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: were there rules to the.

561
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: No Wave.

562
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 4: Not really. I mean I think it was kind of

563
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 4: I think it was kind of nihilistic actually, I mean

564
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: I some people might disagree with me, but like when

565
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: you know, punk was supposed to be this movement that

566
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 4: kind of obviously different fractions, but that destroyed rock, which

567
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: it didn't. It was three cord rock and roll. It

568
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: was just anti corporate, you know, it was different lyrics

569
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 4: and a different sensibility of of what music was supposed

570
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 4: to be. But No Wave was actually really deconstructed rock,

571
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: like you didn't necessarily have. There's a lot of dissonance

572
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 4: and density, and it seems just peculiar to New York,

573
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 4: although Japan was kind of parallel, and Japan they had

574
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 4: art movements that came post to World War Two, right

575
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: like no Theater and anyway, it was kind of a

576
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 4: nihilistic attitude, and so it's kind of interesting that that

577
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 4: was pretty much particular to New York. And maybe the

578
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: influence of like free jazz and you know, other different

579
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: sounds minimalist composition, you know, Lama Young and junk age

580
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 4: and people like that. You know, I think that sort

581
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: of contributed to it a bit. But it was also

582
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: just a feeling of like, no, this is this song

583
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 4: isn't going to have like a beginning of middle ement,

584
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 4: And to me it was very free music and that's

585
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 4: what inspired me to play music.

586
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: Gotcha, are any of the.

587
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: Rules that you placed on yourselves for that period still

588
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: exists for you?

589
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: Yeah? Kind of in that the main rule was not

590
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 4: to really learn how to play music, which is kind

591
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: of a technique in itself, I realize.

592
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take if I would say the biggest year

593
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: for Noise in my opinion, especially I havn't worked at

594
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: a record store that year, I would say eighty eight.

595
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: Now it's not like I think there was a collective

596
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: meeting being had by various genres of music, but really

597
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: just this movement starts like how where are you guys

598
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 2: that even in the black music world, Like what Public

599
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: Enemy is about to start doing with this aggressive noise sound?

600
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: Like for me, like the day that the first song

601
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: that they experimented with in which they really tested the

602
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: limits of like what the hell is that was when

603
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: they released a Rebel without a Pause in the summer

604
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: of eighty.

605
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: Seven, and it changed my walk.

606
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: I almost had a hints in asque disposition in the hood.

607
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: Hey guys, how you doing? You know?

608
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: And you hear this and it changes you. Yeah, and

609
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: I realized, like, oh, this is my first soundtrack to

610
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: teenage angst like whatever I feel. But in general, like

611
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: what is the genesis of the embracing of dissonance?

612
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: And just was there a political anger in the air?

613
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: Were you all Yoko Ona fans? Did you discover free

614
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: jazz and the sixties? Like what was it? I don't know.

615
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it was just a very gradual

616
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 4: thing like we you know, like we were influenced by

617
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 4: the NOA Evands, We were influenced by free jazz. We

618
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 4: we were certainly into Public Enemy and kind of related

619
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: to their music in terms of density. And you know,

620
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: we were recording at the same studio they were. And

621
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: this is Chum King No, it was Green Street, Green Street. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

622
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: I was about to say, just what was it like

623
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: recording at Green Street?

624
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 4: Beg man, Well, it was kind of funny because this

625
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: engineer we had had never done guitar music.

626
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: Who's your engineer?

627
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: His name was Nick son Sana.

628
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: Oh, Nick, yeah, Professor Nick Sonsano.

629
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 4: Okay, we were the first guitar band he ever recorded.

630
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 4: And I don't know really what he thought, but it

631
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 4: was basically I think he understood it in terms of layers,

632
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: you know, of sound, just the way he would record

633
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: with you know, Public Enemy or Yeah.

634
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 3: Professor Nick was one of the when I taught at NYU.

635
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: He's one of the co teachers also long like Nixon,

636
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: Sono did the Public Enemy records, like all the Bomb

637
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: Squad stuff, Sonic Youth, like all these New York institutional bands.

638
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 2: And then Bob Power also taught there and he's doing

639
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: a tropical quest in De la Soul and eventually di'angelo

640
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: the roots that.

641
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: Stuff and so.

642
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: But Nick told me something mind blowing about just his

643
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: lack of experience as an engineer during that time period.

644
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: And he informed me that like we almost did no

645
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 2: automation mixing on Public Enemy. All that stuff was pre done, wow,

646
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: which if you know their music, you're like, well, this

647
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: has to be a post thing, and it's like, no,

648
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 2: we always did it right preven.

649
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: But for you in that time period, was it just

650
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 3: not knowing.

651
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: There were rules or just like purposely like how many

652
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: we shouldn't do that or can't do that? Conversations were had.

653
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 4: I mean not many, you know, probably there were just

654
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 4: discussions about well it shouldn't go into the red or

655
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 4: too far or something.

656
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 3: I'm not satisfied until it goes in the red.

657
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: I don't know, like, uh, I'm not sure. Like he

658
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 4: was just super like agreeable, you know, got it, and

659
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 4: we would try you know, Lee would try things out

660
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 4: that we knew wasn't kinda and about the record but whatever,

661
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 4: you know, like some of it did, you know, But yeah,

662
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 4: I do recall. I think it was that studio where yeah,

663
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 4: there'd be a number of fans on the board during mixing,

664
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 4: you know.

665
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: Right, and then you're just figuring out.

666
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: So at the time, are you saying that both bands

667
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: were making like you were making Daydream Nation and in the.

668
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 4: Other room they were in the the newer room, you know,

669
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 4: the I think it was an automated board. Actually, yeah,

670
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 4: some kind of.

671
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: So did you guys old board did you realize that

672
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: you had two Nation albums in common at the time

673
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: when you were making a.

674
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 4: Little bad I mean that's where like, you know, we

675
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 4: did cool thing and I asked Chuck if he would

676
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 4: come and do this like he did kind of the

677
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 4: most cliche thing right, but it was perfect, you know. Okay,

678
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 4: but I just also remember uh waiting waiting for play,

679
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 4: if you know, everyone waiting for Flay to come and

680
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 4: then for like days or something, and then eventually you'd

681
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 4: hear like his floppy feet going down.

682
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: I always wanted to know when the Geffen Records deal happened, like,

683
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: was there ever.

684
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: A worry of like being on a.

685
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: Major at the time, like you guys being on there

686
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: was the cool factor. It was just like, oh, it's Geffen.

687
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: It's cool because that's where they land, so it can't

688
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 2: be that bad. But at the time, there was no

689
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: you know, you guys had Donna Summer and Elton John.

690
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was you know, like friends of ours,

691
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 4: like or not friends, but Peers Whoskerdoo had signed to

692
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: a major and replacements, and I don't know, I guess

693
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 4: we figured like we were just always frustrated at our

694
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 4: lack of distribution, so we that's one reason why we

695
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 4: did it, you know. And we were just like, well,

696
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 4: we've been together for ten years, so if it doesn't work,

697
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 4: fuck it. Yeah, okay, Yeah, And it was a struggle

698
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 4: for sure.

699
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: Okay.

700
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: So one of the biggest misperceptions about my band is

701
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 2: because credibility was a major key factor for us critical

702
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: claim credibility. Yeah, there was also this sort of what

703
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 2: I will say, a kind of a false narrative, which

704
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: was basically that, oh, well, you guys don't care about success.

705
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 2: Like they were always like, yeah, I like you guys

706
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: because you know, you do what you want to do

707
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: and the label supports what you want to do. And

708
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: I wish I could make music like you guys do.

709
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, it's not like we're sun raw.

710
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 2: This is we don't know how to write a good course.

711
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: So like no one told us that we should only

712
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: write sixteen bar and an easy course.

713
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 3: Like so it's almost like I.

714
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: Didn't know how to write accessible music and so but

715
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: we basically got tagged with like, oh, well, we like

716
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 2: you guys because you don't care about success. Okay, So

717
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: in eighty seven eighty eight, what does making it look

718
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: like to you? Is it a this one job is

719
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: all I need to do to live in this apartment

720
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: and pay all these bills? Or were you fine with

721
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 2: a life where Okay, I play my band and sometimes,

722
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: like the amount of people I've interviewed here and didn't

723
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 2: know that.

724
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 3: You know, Millie Jackson's telling me that she would gig.

725
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: On the weekends, but then she used to work in

726
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: the garment district from and this is with like Platinum Records.

727
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for you.

728
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: What does making it look like, especially when you're tagged

729
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: with this credibility.

730
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 4: But we kind of had part time jobs, or at

731
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 4: least one of us did. But the thing is is

732
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 4: that we were kind of smart in that we we

733
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 4: had a separate English label that we licensed to as

734
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 4: well as a label here, so we would get licensing

735
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 4: money from that, and you know when we kind of

736
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: somehow got a little more money each time to record

737
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: it a better studio, which was would be Green Street.

738
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 4: I guess it just kind of, you know, was such

739
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 4: a gradual thing when we did sign TOGEF and I

740
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 4: guess we got I don't know, like it was kind

741
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: of it was a tough record because well, one thing,

742
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 4: we did have some backlash, like Steve Albettie was like,

743
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 4: you guys, you know, we didn't talk to see for

744
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 4: a long time. But uh, but you know the thing

745
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 4: was is that, yeah, we could do whatever we want,

746
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: but it's not like they really promoted our They didn't

747
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: give us a giant marketing budget either, but we were

748
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 4: able to actually have our own record label, s YR,

749
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: and put out vinyl and they actually never realized that

750
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 4: we were making money off of that. Not a lot,

751
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 4: but you know, it's like.

752
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 3: Is it frustrating.

753
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: Being in the Moses position where you know, the beginning

754
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: it was good for us, like this particularly sucks? Well, no,

755
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: you know, this particular act that's opening for you is like, Wow,

756
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 2: you've done everything in the US.

757
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: Cool.

758
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: And then like next year, oh, they're a massive square garden. Okay, cool,

759
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: and this next opening act that's after the seventh time,

760
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 2: then my self esteem started to go down where it's

761
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 2: just like ah, man, like I'm not saying why I

762
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 2: used to joke back then, like I don't want to

763
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 2: be Fishbone, Like I don't want to be the band

764
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: so cool that just traffic directs everyone to go in

765
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: the red carpet and then suddenly you're going on the

766
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: Moses arc thing and you can't have that what we

767
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 2: used to call a Bentley moment. My manager's like, yeah,

768
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: you guys just never had a Bentley moment. You didn't fail,

769
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 2: but you just in your mind this idea of you

770
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: slow motion in clubs and you know, rap shit, we

771
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: never have that. But for you guys, was a disappointed

772
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 2: not saying disappointing that you didn't get that level of vccolade, right, Yeah,

773
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: like to watch people that you influenced.

774
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean not really. I mean Nirvana was such

775
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: an anomaly. And also I think our path had just

776
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 4: been so like kind of slow and steady, and it

777
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 4: allowed us to do other things that we wanted to do.

778
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 4: And it's a fame like that as a it's just

779
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 4: a freaky thing, gotcha. It really just brings up so much.

780
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: So maybe other people in the band were more frustrated.

781
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it's kind of like, you know,

782
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 4: we had our niche and we kind of were able

783
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 4: to have a living and you know, I just feel

784
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 4: now like I'm so pessimistic about the music industry and

785
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 4: streaming and it makes me not want to play music.

786
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 3: You want to take your ball and go home?

787
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 4: I do?

788
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 3: I know? All right? Well can I Okay? So the

789
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: thing is, I'm I feel.

790
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 4: Like I'm working for Lucian Grange, you know, like I'm

791
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 4: his boy.

792
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 3: Weren't we always?

793
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 4: I guess.

794
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 3: Weren't we all?

795
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: What this is leading to is as a member of

796
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 2: rock and Wall of Fame and whatnot, like in terms

797
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: of making sure that these pioneering bands also get there.

798
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 3: Would that mean anything to you to this point to

799
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: get that last like, does that mean anything?

800
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 4: What rock and roll Hall of Fame? Yeah, I don't know.

801
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 4: It seems kind of meaningless in a certain way, like

802
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 4: it's sort of a popularity contrast, Like it's not it

803
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 4: doesn't seem anymore to be about like people who had

804
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: significant impact or now it's just like, oh, they sold

805
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 4: a lot of records.

806
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm just saying, like what And I

807
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: know it's a weird question, like will you allow yourself

808
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: to really enjoy getting the flowers or just.

809
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 4: Uh, I guess. I mean when I was nominated for Grammys,

810
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 4: I was even saying that I was kind of like,

811
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 4: I hate the Grammys. It's just this music industry thing

812
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 4: that I've never paid attention to my whole life. And

813
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 4: you know, I don't quite It's it's nothing I like

814
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 4: about the music about music is the industry. But at

815
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 4: the same time, I did feel it was kind of

816
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 4: fun to be recognized, you know, outside of my ghetto whatever.

817
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: Well, because I think what's happening now is that all

818
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 2: that you influenced. Have you allowed yourself to see that

819
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: the influence is real? And again I'm asking you as

820
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,959
Speaker 2: a person who eighty percent of the time an act

821
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: comes up to me.

822
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 3: And says, oh my god, you changed our lives and

823
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 3: da da da da, and.

824
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the pre therapy me would just basically like, well,

825
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: if I was so important, then why am I playing?

826
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: You know, Kalamazoo Michigan State Fair and da da da dah.

827
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: Like there was a part where I actually let that

828
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: get to me. But then there's also a part where

829
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: I realized that I might evaded in my own kind

830
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: of sabotaging if you even though I'm still going on

831
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 2: the path to I don't know where it is I'm

832
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: supposed to be going, but I'm just one.

833
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 3: Day at a time.

834
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 4: But You're gonna have a kid.

835
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: That's the that's the that's the reward. Let me ask

836
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: you these last few questions.

837
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: So one, how hard is it to embrace a new

838
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: pivot once you've established yourself in and sort of flag

839
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: planet your legacy in one area, which of course is

840
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: in sonic youth, like in walking away from all those

841
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 2: things and it being.

842
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: In your rear view mirror.

843
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: And not being jaded and cynical, Like how do you

844
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: embrace other pivots that you want to do? Like how

845
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: do you view collaborations now? Because collaborations were a big

846
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 2: part of that world you came from.

847
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 4: I mean it's been fairly kind of easy in a

848
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 4: way because you know, like I accidentally made a solo record,

849
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 4: and then I made another and another.

850
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 3: How do you accidentally a solo record?

851
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 4: Well? I met justin raised and through his brother. Okay,

852
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 4: Like we were sitting next to each other at a

853
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 4: restaurant and we suddenly found ourselves.

854
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: That's how it came to be.

855
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, this girl started talking about their sex lives and

856
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 4: tables were really close together, and we all looked at

857
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 4: each other and like I was with this friend of mine.

858
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 4: I don't know, And then we just started talking and

859
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 4: he was like, oh, my brother's a producer. He worked

860
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: this guy Ferrara, and like I don't care, you know,

861
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,919
Speaker 4: like that's not my world, right, But then his brother

862
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 4: dm me and he said he was working on this

863
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 4: Lawrence roth Brune record and they were having to people

864
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 4: come in and do vocals and he kept sending me stuff,

865
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 4: and I finally he sent me something. I felt, Okay,

866
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 4: I can could be interesting. I should be open.

867
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: Right when you collaborate with people, are you one familiar

868
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: with the worlds that they come from or is it

869
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 2: just hey, let's see what happens.

870
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 4: Well, I don't usually collaborate with people that much, and

871
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 4: so what happened was I was pretty skeptical, actually, but

872
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 4: I did these vocals and he he took the leftovers

873
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 4: and he made this trashy drum beat to go with

874
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 4: it and send it to me, and I was kind

875
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 4: of like, oh wow, this is kind of cool, Like

876
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 4: he really understands my sensibility. And so I went back

877
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 4: and did more vocals and put some guitar har down

878
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 4: and that song became Murdered Out okay. And then about

879
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 4: six months later we just started working together and he

880
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 4: Justin's wild, but I I he does come from like

881
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 4: punk rock, East Coast roots, and he you know, you

882
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 4: haven't seen New Sonic cute and blah blah blah anyway,

883
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 4: so we just he kind of just gets my vocal style,

884
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 4: and I know I can go in with anything and

885
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 4: he'll make it into basically.

886
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: You talk about how the Collective Project came to be

887
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: in terms of, like it's kind of DNA into a

888
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 2: world of hip hop that really sounds natural, Like it

889
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: sounds awesome if I say so myself.

890
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 4: Thanks. I mean, he and his brother do like hip

891
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: hop's beats and stuff for people, his brother more than

892
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 4: he does.

893
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 3: Cherry.

894
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 4: I'm not a natural singer, you know, so I have

895
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 4: a limited range, and so I get really inspired and

896
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 4: I use things like space and rhythm and articulation.

897
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: You know.

898
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 4: That's so I was. You know, I was really happy

899
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 4: to actually work work the beats on it, and then

900
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 4: I would add my dissonant stuff, which you don't really

901
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 4: hear in hip hop so much when they turn the

902
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 4: rockets like three chord, like power cards.

903
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 3: Hip hop, the supermarket music.

904
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, but I guess now like people are listening

905
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 4: to like Chewgazing, well, are you the influenced kind of

906
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 4: putting a sampling a lot of that? Funny? It's funny enough.

907
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you the question that I hate

908
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: when people ask me this question. You could pass if not.

909
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: Is there anyone new that you listen to now? Like

910
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 2: I hope that one day you and Tyler the creator

911
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: run across each other, like it's interesting.

912
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 4: He's always saying he's that a little like Tyler in this.

913
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, like you, you and Tyler,

914
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: I think that that that should be a that's a

915
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 2: project that I can almost Yeah, you guys should work

916
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 2: with each other.

917
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 4: I'm open to that. I mean I'm always a little

918
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 4: like skeptical of like, yeah, working with someone with a

919
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 4: big name, you know, like I did something with model homes.

920
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 4: You know, this guy's experimentally. Okay, two guys, Yeah, we

921
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 4: made a single.

922
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 3: I love that.

923
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: Now Tyler is a big name, it's a paralleled universe,

924
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 2: but his beginnings are very.

925
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 3: Much like it's.

926
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: It's the downtown scene, like literally a collective, just the

927
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: West Coast hip hop version of whatever you want to

928
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: call it, the Mumblecred movement or right right, his version

929
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 2: of Dogma ninety five. Like, I believe that both of

930
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 2: you have your roots almost in the same parallel universe.

931
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 2: Can you tell me how you got involved in the

932
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Chronology of Water project with Christian Stewart.

933
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, just I mean I knew Kristen a little bit,

934
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 4: and uh, she just came over asked me if I

935
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 4: would do the small part in her film and explained

936
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 4: what it was, send me the script, and it just

937
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 4: seems you know, fun I mean, I like her a lot,

938
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 4: immense respect for her, and she's very articulate about what

939
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 4: she wants and you know she yeah, just super smart.

940
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: Now I know that you've revisited your first memoir, Yes,

941
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,760
Speaker 2: Golden Band, Why did you find it necessary to update

942
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 2: the story?

943
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 4: Just the editor had the idea to put out a

944
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,919
Speaker 4: ten year anniversary. Got it of it so and asked

945
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: if i'd write a new chapter?

946
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 3: Got it?

947
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, how cathartic was the whole process of unluding what

948
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: it felt like to be in the experience from your

949
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: point of view?

950
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 4: I liked, I mean, I like writing it. Sometimes I

951
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 4: feel like it's the only way I know what I'm

952
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 4: thinking is when I start writing and stuff comes out.

953
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 3: Who's that? Got it?

954
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 2: In closing, I'll ask you, what's the one thing that

955
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: you hope that your peers say about you?

956
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 4: I don't know that I'm funny, okay. I mean there's

957
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 4: a lot of humor in especially the new record. And yeah,

958
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 4: I think people think of me as like super serious.

959
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 4: I feel like as I get older, I'm not as serious.

960
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: What's the one thing that the press never says about

961
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 2: you that you wish we knew about you?

962
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 3: Is that you have a sense of humor. Yeah, I

963
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: guess so well.

964
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 2: I thank you for answering my crazy questions, and I

965
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: thank you for everything that you represented. And I know

966
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: that sometimes when you're in this position you feel like

967
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: no one's paying attention, or from one person that looked

968
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: at a Moses figure that ushered in a movement, I

969
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 2: just want to say thank you for that, like I

970
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: was paying attention, and I appreciate your your work and

971
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 2: your artistry.

972
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 4: Oh thanks, I appreciate that makes me happy.

973
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: The very cool Kim Gordon on The Quest Love Show

974
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 2: and I'll see you guys on the next Proground.

975
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 4: Mutual to you a swell thank you.

976
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is hosted by me a Mere

977
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean g Brian

978
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: Calhoun and Me. Produced by Britney Benjamin Jake Paine.

979
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 3: Produced for iHeart.

980
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: By Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Connelly. iHeart video support

981
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: by Mark Canton, Logo's graphics and animation by Nick Lowe.

982
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: Additional support by a Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy

983
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: Brown Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review,

984
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: and share The Quest Love Show wherever you stream mer podcast,

985
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: and make sure you follow us on socials.

986
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 3: That's at q LS.

987
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including the

988
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme Shows and our podcast archives. Quest Love

989
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: Show is a production of iHeartRadio