1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff from how Stuff Works, Hey, brain Stuff, 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum. Here a question that's been troubling parents more 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: and more in an age when mass shooting seemed to 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: occur with horrifying frequency, is should young children be allowed 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: to play with toy versions of the weapons that are 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: killing other kids and adults. In an article for Vogue, 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: writer Michelle Rui's described a conversation she had with a 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: fellow mother who asked, what are we feeding our children 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: in the metaphorical sense when we hand them guns to 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: play with? After a recent school shooting in Indiana, a 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: reader's letter to the Indianapolis Star voiced a similar sentiment. 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: He wrote, children should not have even cap pistols or 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: toy guns to play with because it teaches the wrong lesson. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: And here's a quote from a Huffington's Post article by 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: Wendy Kannar, a former teacher, who explains why our family 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: doesn't allow toy guns. She said, at least one retailer 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: has already stopped selling some types of toy guns. In February, 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: when Walmart announced it would raise the purchase age for 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: firearms at its stores to twenty one. The company also 20 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: said that it would remove from its website items resembling 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: assault style rifles, including toys. Walmart stopped selling actual modern 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: sporting rifles, including the A R fifteen back in For 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: all the anxiety and outrage it stimulates, there's relatively little 24 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: scientific research on the effect that playing with toy guns 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: has upon children, and although some studies suggest it may 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: be linked to aggressive behavior in childhood, no clear connection 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: has been established between childhood play with toy guns and 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: adult attitudes toward or propensity for violence. Some psychologists who 29 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: have done research on children and toy guns think that 30 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: parenting is a much more important indicator of aggressive behavior. 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: We spoke with Charles W. Turner, a psychologist on the 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: staff of the organ Research Institute who has more than 33 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: forty years of experience conducting treatment and prevention research on children, adolescents, 34 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: and young adults with behavior problems. Back in the midnighteteen seventies, 35 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: he and colleague Diane Goldsmith published one of the earliest 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: papers on the subject, in which they compared a group 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: of children who played with toy guns to another group 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: who played with toy airplanes and kids who played with 39 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: other toys. All were observed for signs of antisocial behavior, 40 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: such as aggression or rule breaking. Why the airplanes, Turner 41 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: explains the purpose of the airplanes was to control for 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: the fact that you're introducing a novel toy. Is it 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: the novelty of the toy leading to the acting out, 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: or whether it's something specific about the gun. Turner and 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: Goldsmith found that the toy guns produced a reliably higher 46 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: rate of antisocial behavior than the average of the toy 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: airplanes and the other toys, though the toy airplanes also 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: increased the rate of kids misbehaving as well. But today, Turner, 49 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: who moved on from what he calls hypothetical studies to 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: studying actual young offenders, cautions against reading too much into 51 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: his early work. From a practical standpoint. He says it 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: would be hard to look at whether playing with guns 53 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: as a child affected attitudes as an adult. Based on 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: his own work as well as that of other researchers, 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: he suspects that playing with guns as a child is 56 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: one small part of a bigger picture of what leads 57 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: to adult aggressive behavior. It's a small, nearly trivial part. 58 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: He puts more weight on other influences, such as how 59 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: a family relates to a child and their pattern of interactions. 60 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: In a study published in the journal Early Education and 61 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: Development in researchers Malcolm W. Watson and Ying Peng observed 62 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: thirty six three to five year old children in free 63 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: play in a daycare center and coded their behavior for 64 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: the amount of real aggression, pretend aggression, ref and tumble play, 65 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: and non aggressive pretend play. They also had parents fill 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: out a questionnaire to gather data such as whether kids 67 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: played with toy guns at home mostly boys did, as 68 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: well as whether they watched TV programs with aggression and 69 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: the amount of physical punishment that parents used for discipline. 70 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: The researchers found that toy gun play, along with parental 71 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: punishment were associated with a higher level of real aggression, 72 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: though not with pretend aggression. We spoke via email with Watson, 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: who is the George and Francis Levin Professor of Psychology 74 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: at Brandeis University. He said there are so many factors 75 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: that act as antecedents to real aggression that this one 76 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: study could not evaluate the entire story. Various factors may 77 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: interact to increase the likelihood of aggression in children and 78 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: children developing long term aggressive tendencies. Watson explains the study 79 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: was designed to pit the cathartic theory of aggression, in 80 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: which aggressive fantasy play might reduce actual frustration and aggression, 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: with the queuing theory, in which toy guns and aggressive 82 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: play would act as cues and practice for real aggression. 83 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: He said, the more toy gun play that was used, 84 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: the more real aggression boys showed. In their preschool boys 85 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: showed much more toy gun play than did girls, and 86 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: probably because of this, there was no relation found between 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: toy gun play real aggression in girls. Interestingly, we also 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: found that the more toy gun play that was used, 89 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: the less non aggressive pretend play, including pretend aggression, children showed, 90 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: and not aggressive pretend play is seen as a good 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: thing for children, he continued, So, in effect, there was 92 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: no evidence for a cathartic effect, but there was evidence 93 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: for a probable queuing effect. Playing with toy guns maybe 94 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: increased when some children already show more aggression, or reciprocally, 95 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: real aggression maybe cued and increased when children play more 96 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: with toy guns. It just didn't seem that anything good 97 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: came from playing with toy guns. But Watson also notes 98 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: that the strongest factor that predicted real aggression in preschoolers 99 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: more than toy guns or watching violent TV was the 100 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: amount and frequency of parents spanking their kids or using 101 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: other corporal punishment. Watson said, we have done subsequent studies 102 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: that showed the children who were more aggressive led to 103 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: parents using more corporal punishment over time time, but that 104 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: the use of more corporal punishment led to even more 105 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: aggression in the children. Parental use of corporal punishment was 106 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: part of an ongoing negative spiral. He continued, I think 107 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: pretend play overall has a great influence on children's development 108 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: and thinking, and so I suspect that toy gun play 109 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: may have long term consequences. But I also suspect that 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: parental attitudes towards guns and also parents modeling of aggression 111 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: will have even stronger influences. Today's episode was written by 112 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: Patrick Jake Tiger and produced by Tyler Clang. 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