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Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy and beast

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the cast.

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Speaker 2: Jamie, I'm so sorry that shut up, shut up podcast

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Speaker 2: with me.

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Speaker 3: Shut up, my camera down't shut up. I know you

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Speaker 3: recording it is your false shut up. That's basically the

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Speaker 3: movie rights done more or less.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, Heather, Poor Heather, Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante or is

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Speaker 2: it truly?

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Speaker 3: I have so many thoughts about just the ethics of

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Speaker 3: this movie are so wild. I feel like the wildest

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Speaker 3: thing to me is being like, no, actors, We're gonna

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Speaker 3: use your full government name and then market it as

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Speaker 3: if you have died. Died anyways. My name is Jamie

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Speaker 3: Loftis for now.

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Speaker 2: And this is our podcast where we examine movies through

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Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as

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Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, there's a lot of different versions of the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel test. It is a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 3: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, originally as a one off bit in

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Speaker 3: her comic collection Dicks to Watch out For back in

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Speaker 3: the eighties, but has since been adopted as a way

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Speaker 3: of talking about gender. Is it's portrayed in big cool movies.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of different versions of the test. The

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Speaker 3: one we use is this, we require that there be

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Speaker 3: two characters of a marginalized gender with names speaking to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for two

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Speaker 3: lines of dialogue or more.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's so true.

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Speaker 3: I forgot to pay attention to it for this movie.

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Speaker 3: I think that it does though, right because Mary and

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Speaker 3: Heath Mary Brown. Yeah, that's a superpass. All right, Well,

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Speaker 3: let's end the episode. So didn't get to speak JK.

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Speaker 2: We again. We talk about this from time to time

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Speaker 2: that people think our podcast is just talking about whether

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Speaker 2: or not a movie passes the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 3: And it's my favorite way to find out that someone

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Speaker 3: has been lying to me about listening to the podcast,

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Speaker 3: which is very funny because it's like, I truly don't

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Speaker 3: give a shit if people listen to.

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Speaker 2: The show or out, like you can just admit that

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Speaker 2: you don't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I like to imagine I'm like, well, I

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Speaker 3: guess you wouldn't like the show if you really thought

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Speaker 3: it was us teasing that great mystery apart for the

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Speaker 3: better part of two hours. Anyways, you're listening to this,

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Speaker 3: you know that's not the case. We are covering the

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Speaker 3: Blair Witch project, and we have an incredible, long anticipated

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Speaker 3: guest wearing you cannot see, an incredible inappropriate shirt.

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Speaker 2: Scary stories to tell in the dark. Our guest is

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Speaker 2: the host of the podcast American Hysteria. It's Chelsea Weber Smith. Hello.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't be more thrilled to be here and analyze

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Speaker 4: this one of my most favorite movies of all time.

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Speaker 5: So thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here.

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Speaker 3: Truly, we're so pumped out this is Do you spend

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Speaker 3: the whole episode trying to figure out what is so

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Speaker 3: American about the Hysteria? Right? Yeah, I'm so glad you

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Speaker 3: suggested us doing this movie because it feels so Chelsea

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Speaker 3: Webber Smith expanded Universe Coded. I have so many questions

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Speaker 3: about how the Blurwitch mythology ties into stuff you've covered

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Speaker 3: over the years. I'm just so pumped.

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Speaker 4: I've been like turned into some kind of weird, de

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Speaker 4: facto blair Witch expert, or at least I like to

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Speaker 4: think that. I've gone on a few podcasts talking about

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Speaker 4: this movie, and you know, I think eleven year old

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Speaker 4: me would be pretty thrilled about that.

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Speaker 5: So shout out to the past me.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tell us all about your relationship with the

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Speaker 2: blair Witch Project.

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Speaker 5: The blair Witch Project. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I was eleven when it came out in

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety nine, and I was very much in the

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Speaker 4: camp of thinking it was real, and I remember hearing

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Speaker 4: about it. I have no idea how I heard about it,

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Speaker 4: probably just being on the Internet, and I was obsessed

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Speaker 4: with the website, which I'm sure we'll get into, which

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Speaker 4: was kind of part of the expanded universe of this movie,

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Speaker 4: which is as important as the movie itself is the

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Speaker 4: marketing behind it. And you know, my parents were going

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Speaker 4: to see it because I come from a very horror

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Speaker 4: oriented background and they were pumped to see it, and

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Speaker 4: I think they probably knew it was fake at that point,

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Speaker 4: but I'm not sure. But I was pissed because they

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Speaker 4: were going on a date and not taking me, and

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Speaker 4: so I ended up just watching the sci fi documentary

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Speaker 4: that they made as like a supplement.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, did you watch it, Jamie?

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Speaker 3: Know that before for today, I did watch it. This

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Speaker 3: movie it's like marketing campaign is like Barbie movie found

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Speaker 3: Dead in a ditch. This is the most four dy

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Speaker 3: game of chess ever played by a movie's marketing campaign.

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Speaker 5: It's so wild, it's incredible.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, so basically what that documentary did on the

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Speaker 4: Sci Fi Channel was give a bunch of context to

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Speaker 4: this movie that kind of exists without context, which is

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Speaker 4: why it's so amazing. So I got really into the

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Speaker 4: lore in the background that's happening. And then finally I

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Speaker 4: got to see it, and I think by that time

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Speaker 4: I had figured out that it was not real, because

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Speaker 4: it was when it came to video and it kind

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Speaker 4: of cat was out of the bag. And of course,

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Speaker 4: you know, a lot of people knew it was fake

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Speaker 4: because it's ridiculous to think that this would be in theaters, right,

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Speaker 4: this footage. But and I remembered hearing about it, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, that's got to be illegal, Like there's

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Speaker 4: no way they can show this like police evidence footage

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Speaker 4: of these people who went missing. But yeah, I just

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Speaker 4: absolutely loved kind of digging into it because not only

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Speaker 4: was it this documentary, but they had a website that

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Speaker 4: had all of the documents and all of these different

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Speaker 4: interviews and information about these missing people, and yeah, it

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Speaker 4: was just such a full experience. They were on message

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Speaker 4: boards like adding comments to people talking about it to

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Speaker 4: try to like stir up different reactions and to kind

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Speaker 4: of control the narrative that way. So I think just

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Speaker 4: having that experience as an eleven year old, I just

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Speaker 4: started to make the Blair witch stick figures. There's actually

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Speaker 4: currently one hanging in our yard because I still make

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Speaker 4: them every Halloween. But I started to make them and

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Speaker 4: hang them in weird places to scare people, like when

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Speaker 4: I went camping, like hang them on the trees outside

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Speaker 4: strangers tents, like the absolute little little stinker.

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Speaker 5: As you guys said, true true.

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Speaker 3: Blue the colloquial term.

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Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. Yeah, actually it's the scientific term. So I yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think that that kind of explains how it's been

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Speaker 4: a part of my very DNA since the beginning of

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Speaker 4: my interests in this type of content, like you know,

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Speaker 4: hoaxes and hysteria around some of the elements included in this.

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Speaker 4: It's a commentary I think on a lot of things,

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Speaker 4: so we'll get into it.

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Speaker 3: We wi So, was this sort of like close to

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Speaker 3: your patient zero for a lot of the work that

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Speaker 3: you do now?

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Speaker 5: I don't think that's wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it probably makes a lot of sense

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Speaker 4: because I so enjoyed being like hoaxed, which is of

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Speaker 4: course not always true, but it feels like one of

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Speaker 4: those hoaxes that didn't really cause any damage, Like it

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Speaker 4: was just kind of a whole lot of fun. I'm

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Speaker 4: sure there's you know, I'm sure there's elements of it,

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Speaker 4: but it didn't to me add to the satanic panic

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Speaker 4: too much of the nineties coming out in ninety nine

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Speaker 4: as it did, and that would have kind of made

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Speaker 4: me have a little bit more of a sour relationship

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Speaker 4: to it, because I don't like demonic satanic horror movies

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Speaker 4: very much because I think it kind of continuously keeps.

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Speaker 5: This satanic fear going.

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Speaker 4: But you know, it definitely still has those elements of

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Speaker 4: even like the witch hysteria of the witch trials of

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Speaker 4: the sixteen hundreds in America, which is foundational even though

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Speaker 4: we've never done an episode on it, which is funny.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think it is very much part of

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Speaker 4: the fabric of what started my love of folklore and

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Speaker 4: legends because it was such an interesting folklore, whereas a

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Speaker 4: lot of folklore is pretty boring. But when you mix

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Speaker 4: it with kind of an urban legend situation, more modern.

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Speaker 5: Then you get my attention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Caitlin, what's your history?

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Speaker 2: I saw this movie in a drive in movie theater

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine. Oh yeah, I was thirteen, and

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Speaker 2: I was so scared. I was like, this is the

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Speaker 2: scariest movie I've ever seen. And I don't think I've

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Speaker 2: changed my mind since then, Like I to this day

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Speaker 2: think it might be the scariest movie I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: I know there are haters out there, but I think

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Speaker 2: it's so scary. I think it's such an effective horror movie.

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Speaker 2: And then I watched the sequel A bunch oh which

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Speaker 2: shadows Book of Shadows, not to be confused with National

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Speaker 2: Treasure two Book of Secrets.

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Speaker 3: Yes, of course that's true. Yeah. In Flaywash two, do

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Speaker 3: they kidnap the president.

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Speaker 2: The President of the United States? They do not, but

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Speaker 2: a bunch of scary. I for some reason watched the

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Speaker 2: sequel several times, or specifically Book of Shadows in the

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, because I thought it was just like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, just like a cool extension of the

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Speaker 2: first one. And I all so to prepare for this episode,

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Speaker 2: watched Blair Witch, which is the third installment of the

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Speaker 2: franchise that came out in twenty sixteen, which I don't

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Speaker 2: remember it even coming out in theaters. It's something I

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Speaker 2: feel like I should have been aware of. It was

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Speaker 2: not that long ago, but I was like, what is

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Speaker 2: this movie. I don't remember that coming out at all,

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Speaker 2: and it had a theatrical release and everything. It made

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Speaker 2: like forty five million dollars of the box office. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I watched it. I also thought it was very, very scary.

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Speaker 2: It does rely on a few very tired, nasty horror

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Speaker 2: movie tropes, such as the black guy is the first

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Speaker 2: person to die, but it was very scary. Anytime people

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Speaker 2: are camping in the woods and it's dark and they're

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Speaker 2: just sort of like waving a camera around the woods

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Speaker 2: and you can only see little bits and pieces, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm scared. The woods are scary. I will never go

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Speaker 2: camping under any circumstances because probably of movies like.

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Speaker 5: This camping period.

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Speaker 2: I refuse to go camping. My friends are always like,

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Speaker 2: let's go camping, and I'm like, but why. I like

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Speaker 2: indoor plumbing, I like sleeping on a bed. I like

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Speaker 2: having walls and a ceiling and a floor. So no,

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Speaker 2: thank you, but yeah, I thank you. Yes, yes, I

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Speaker 2: did not realize how much I love this franchise until

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Speaker 2: sort of like revisiting it for this episode. But I

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Speaker 2: think it rocks. So that is my relationship to the

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Speaker 2: blair Witch. Jamie, how about you.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had as detailed a lore. I feel

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Speaker 3: like I definitely do not remember this movie coming out.

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Speaker 3: Sorry I'm so young, but I do, like I wish

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like reading about everything that surrounded this

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Speaker 3: movie and like hearing about your experiences, like seeing it

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Speaker 3: for the first time. If I had been like, you know,

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Speaker 3: nine or ten when this came out, I would have

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Speaker 3: lost my fucking yeah, Like this is so It's just

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Speaker 3: it was so fascinating to read about how this was made,

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Speaker 3: even though it's like wildly unethical and probably would get

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Speaker 3: them blacklisted today. But like I was eating this shit

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Speaker 3: up for the last two days. I have been in

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Speaker 3: the blair Witch zone. I really enjoy And Chelsea, I

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Speaker 3: think you that Sarah also showed this movie to you recently.

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Speaker 3: I love a hoax. I love a hoax, I love

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Speaker 3: a goof, I love people fallen for a big time.

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize to the extent how like integral that

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Speaker 3: was to blair Witch marketing. I'd seen, like my short stories,

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Speaker 3: I've seen this movie once or twice. I think that

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Speaker 3: I was pre poisoned by the infinity parodies of this movie. Yep,

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Speaker 3: so that I had seen this movie parodied a hundred

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Speaker 3: times before I ever watched it in like high school

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Speaker 3: or college, and so I.

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Speaker 4: Was especially scary movie, right, I feel like scary movie's.

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Speaker 3: The main Yeah, huge, and it just like any like

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Speaker 3: low hanging fruit for any comedy property. But I definitely

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Speaker 3: remember I definitely saw a scary movie before I saw this.

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Speaker 3: So by the time I actually saw it, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is pretty scary, like but I was so like

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Speaker 3: subconsciously exhausted by it because it was so everywhere, and

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Speaker 3: I wish that I had gotten to experience the moment

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Speaker 3: where like people were like, no, these kids died, and

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Speaker 3: now they hired look alike actors to promote the movie.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. Nineteen ninety nine was

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Speaker 3: such a bizarrely innocent time that that could be true.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I didn't have a huge connection

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Speaker 3: to this movie, but going back, I can't imagine a

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Speaker 3: more perfectly timed movie, for like, right before people figured

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Speaker 3: out how to like hoax check shit on the internet.

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Speaker 3: But I just anything that involves an arg or some

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Speaker 3: sort of public hoax element, I'm a huge sucker for

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Speaker 3: Like I know that the most famous example is like

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Speaker 3: the Orson Wells were the world one, but there was

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Speaker 3: also Chelsea. Did you show Sarah or did so? No?

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Speaker 5: She showed me.

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Speaker 4: I had never even heard of it, and I was shocked.

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Speaker 4: I hadn't heard of it. It was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: It was so loved. Which what are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: Pre Dating the blurir Witch project, there was It's streaming

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Speaker 3: for free on tub hashtag thank you to be you

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Speaker 3: be heads to be or not to be? And I say,

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Speaker 3: let's turn on to b babes. It's a fake documentary,

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Speaker 3: a mockumentary if you will, called ghost Watch. It's a

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Speaker 3: horror mocumentary that came out in nineteen ninety two, was

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Speaker 3: broadcast on the BBC on Halloween Night with real famous

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Speaker 3: BBC anchors at the time, playing out this hoax script

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Speaker 3: that basically leads you to believe that there is a

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Speaker 3: real haunting with like real people dying, the haunting comes

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Speaker 3: to the studio. It's like fucking amazing. It's so good.

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Speaker 4: Did you, Jamie catch all of the Fox Sister references

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Speaker 4: in it? Because I was seeing shit. I was like

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Speaker 4: the apples hanging. They had like apples hanging from the ceiling,

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Speaker 4: which is how the Sisters stooped people. I think they

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Speaker 4: live on like Fox something Road, And I was just.

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Speaker 5: Like, I get the jokes. I love what I get

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Speaker 5: with Jo it was for the references.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's spiritualism heavy. It's like, yeah, absolutely fantastic. If

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Speaker 3: you enjoyed The Blair Witch Project, you will also love Ghostwatch. Also.

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Speaker 3: Ghost Watch is like very funny. It's all these like

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Speaker 3: Newsy anchored jokes. Kaitlyn, I think you would love.

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Speaker 2: It, Okay, I'll check it out.

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Speaker 3: I just love this very specific genre of horror, mockumentary,

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Speaker 3: hoax horror. Yeah, exactly. And then it was really interesting

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Speaker 3: doing research on I mean there's quite a bit written

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Speaker 3: about not just like the production and the lore surrounding

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Speaker 3: this movie, but how it frames and portrays its main character, Heather.

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Speaker 3: There's a ton of shit to talk about there too.

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Speaker 3: I was very much in my like freshman sociology seminar

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Speaker 3: bag prepping for this episode, so I'm very excited to

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Speaker 3: talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll

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Speaker 2: come back for the recap. And we are back, and

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Speaker 2: here is the recap of the blair Witch project. So

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Speaker 2: we open on text on screen that says that in

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Speaker 2: October of nineteen ninety four, three student filmmakers disappeared in

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Speaker 2: the woods near Birkettsville, Maryland while shooting a documentary, and

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Speaker 2: then a year after their disappearance, their footage was found.

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Speaker 2: And then we start watching the footage because this is

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Speaker 2: famously a found footage style movie. We meet the director

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Speaker 2: of the documentary, Heather played by Heather Donahue, and she's

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Speaker 2: just preparing for a trip to the woods to make

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Speaker 2: this documentary on a local legend, the Blair Witch. Then

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Speaker 2: we meet Josh played by Joshua Leonard, who's helping Heather

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Speaker 2: to shoot the dock on a sixteen millimeter film camera.

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Speaker 2: They then pick up Mike played by Michael C. Williams,

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Speaker 2: who they are meeting for the first time. They've kind

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Speaker 2: of like hired him to be the sound guy, and

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Speaker 2: then they start shooting some stuff, including shots of a

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Speaker 2: cemetery that holds an unusually high number of graves of children,

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Speaker 2: many of whom died in the nineteen forties.

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Speaker 3: Which I is also just like anytime they're like, oh

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Speaker 3: a lot of kids used to die, You're like.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, like fifty.

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Speaker 4: That just used to be how it was also mad

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Speaker 4: nerd time Dork report. I went to Burkettsville and I

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Speaker 4: took a picture exactly where Heather stood.

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Speaker 3: WHOA, that's the greatest.

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Speaker 4: I went with my friend Will Rogers, who is also

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Speaker 4: a big Blair Witch head who does all of our

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Speaker 4: voice acting, and we just had such a beautiful time and.

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Speaker 5: We really wanted to camp.

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Speaker 4: Well we didn't have time, but I will camp in

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Speaker 4: those woods one day, Caitlin, I want.

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Speaker 2: To come, not even a little bit. So we also

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Speaker 2: see them interviewing a few locals in Birkettsville, formerly known

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Speaker 2: as Blair Maryland. They're asking about the Blair Witch and

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Speaker 2: the locals share various scary stories and legends that they've

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Speaker 2: heard over the years. There's mention of a man named

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Speaker 2: mister Parr who in nineteen forty murdered seven children, where

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Speaker 2: he would bring them down to his basement in pairs

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Speaker 2: and make one of them stand facing the corner while

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Speaker 2: he killed the other one. Also, I guess we should

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Speaker 2: have placed a trigger warning at the top of this

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Speaker 2: because there will be a lot of discussion of murder

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Speaker 2: the Blair.

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Speaker 3: This is the one time where I'm like, if you

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Speaker 3: need a trigger warning for the Blair Witch Project, I

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Speaker 3: literally do not know what to tell you.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a conservative on this issue.

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Speaker 5: She's putting her foot down culture.

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Speaker 2: Yes, just so you know everyone, children aren't murdered on screen,

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Speaker 2: But there's a lot of like lore that is talked

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Speaker 2: about in the movie, and a lot of it is

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Speaker 2: children dying.

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Speaker 3: It's the Blair Witch Project, you guys.

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Speaker 2: It is the Blair Witch Project.

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Speaker 3: If I receive a single email about that, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: lose it.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So they also interview a woman named Mary Brown,

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Speaker 2: who has a reputation around town as being like, you know,

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Speaker 2: not very reliable. She's quote unquote a lunatic, and she

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Speaker 2: talks about how she had an encounter with possibly the

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Speaker 2: Blair Witch when she was a child, and she describes

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Speaker 2: what she saw and it's scary and spooky.

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Speaker 5: And she's like fucking iconic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she is the legend.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 5: I just absolutely adore her.

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Speaker 3: M hm. And I love that the movie spoiler alert

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Speaker 3: bears out that she was completely right the whole time

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Speaker 3: and that they are I guess plot punished for assuming

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Speaker 3: the worst of her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. True, mm hmmm. That was also the only movie

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Speaker 2: that that actor ever acted in. I believe.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually, she signed up to be an intern. They

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Speaker 4: advertised in like the local paper that they needed an intern,

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Speaker 4: and she showed up and her house was exactly like that,

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Speaker 4: including like the weird stick fence. So she's very much

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Speaker 4: like I'm sure we'll get into this, but all many

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Speaker 4: of the actors were just people who lived in the

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Speaker 4: town who were told a rough outline of what they

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Speaker 4: wanted them to say, and then they ad lived.

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Speaker 3: Like the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, okay.

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Speaker 5: Which is like because it's like all of them are great.

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Speaker 5: Everyone is great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible.

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Speaker 3: Her name is Patricia de Coue Rip.

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Speaker 5: She has passed away, so let's yeah rip rip in heaven, Patty.

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Speaker 3: I Yeah, she was wonderful, and I also loved the

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Speaker 3: interview that I always remember is the mom with the

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Speaker 3: kid who's like, it's just a scary story. And I

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Speaker 3: guess that she also. That was like basically no instruction whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: It was just like Chelsea, correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 3: but just like pretend you know what the Blair witches

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Speaker 3: and like here's sort of what you should say. And

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Speaker 3: she did not sign a release and so the filmmakers

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Speaker 3: had to like tried to find her for weeks because

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Speaker 3: she just gave the best improvised interview and for some reason,

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Speaker 3: that's the interview. I mean, like obviously Mary Brown, but

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Speaker 3: I love the mom one. It felt so real.

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Speaker 4: She's amazing, and the little girl the whole time is

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Speaker 4: like trying to close her mouth. She keeps being no, no,

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Speaker 4: and then she goes, it's just a scary story. It's

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Speaker 4: not and then she turns to the camera and goes,

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Speaker 4: it's real. So no, it's true, and it's so funny.

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Speaker 4: But I did really quick watch today an interview with

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Speaker 4: them like that was made in like twenty twenty or

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Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, and the girls all grown up and hear this,

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Speaker 4: she is wearing a corn sweatshirt, and I thought that

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Speaker 4: was incredible.

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Speaker 5: Okay, okay, girl, huh, I love it.

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Speaker 2: I want to be her friend.

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Speaker 4: Which, if you think about it, Corn was one of

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Speaker 4: the big instigators unintentionally of Woodstock ninety nine, which is

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Speaker 4: happening in the same year, which I feel is an

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Speaker 4: interesting cultural all connected incidents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're we ever so young.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So then it's day two of shooting. We see

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Speaker 2: an interview that they shoot with two fishermen who tell

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Speaker 2: the filmmakers about a girl from the eighteen hundreds who

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Speaker 2: also had an encounter with a witch in the woods.

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Speaker 2: And then they park their car and head into the

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Speaker 2: woods with these big heavy backpacks. They've got all of

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Speaker 2: their film equipment, and they're making their way to Coffin Rock,

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Speaker 2: where as legend has it, five men were bound together, disemboweled,

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Speaker 2: markings were etched into their skin, and then their bodies

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Speaker 2: mysteriously vanished, as if someone had taken them.

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Speaker 4: Each man's hands tied to another man's feet. It's just

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Speaker 4: the way how the talks when she's on cameras.

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Speaker 3: It's so student film, where she's just like, clearly I

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Speaker 3: don't know, parroting like TV talk. Yeah, so good.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, like a Discovery Channel documentary or something.

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Speaker 3: It's perfect sure. Performance is just like, ah, just unbelievable,

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Speaker 3: so good, true true.

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Speaker 2: Then after Coffin Rock, they set up a tent and

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Speaker 2: camp in the woods.

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Speaker 3: That night.

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Speaker 2: We cut to the next morning, so it's like day

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Speaker 2: three of shooting. Josh is talking about noises he heard

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Speaker 2: the night before. There was like a cackling outside their tent,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, yikes, but let's keep going. So

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Speaker 2: they start hiking through the woods to find a cemetery

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Speaker 2: that's supposed to be there, but there's no trail. They're

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Speaker 2: kind of lost. They argue about where they're going and

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Speaker 2: whether or not Heather knows where they actually are. Tension

438
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: is very high among the group. But then they finally

439
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: figure out where they are and they come upon this

440
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: kind of like makeshift cemetery where it's these strange piles

441
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: of rocks that someone had clearly like assembled. It wasn't

442
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 2: they just found this way in nature. And then they

443
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 2: are like these sort of like man made nests in

444
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: trees that are also filled with rocks, and Heather's like,

445
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: didn't Mary Brown say something about piles of rocks where

446
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: she was like referencing the Bible, and they're trying to

447
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: figure out what the significance of these rocks could be.

448
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: And I love how it's like explicitly said, like, oh,

449
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: I just didn't listen to her. I didn't take her seriously. Yes,

450
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: I thought she was crazy politic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And

451
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: then it's like, well, sorry, bitch, you gotta you shouldn't

452
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 3: listen to our friend Mary always listen to women that

453
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: live in the woods. That He's like a basic rule.

454
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 4: Stick fence, listen up. That's what I say.

455
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 3: This person has something to say.

456
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: That's rule of survival number one. Okay, So that night

457
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: they set up camp again by this makeshift cemetery. They

458
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: hear some more scary sounds off in the distance, but

459
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 2: they don't see anything. Then we cut to the next

460
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: morning and now they're headed back to the car, but

461
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: they're deep in the woods. They might be lost again.

462
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: Heather is constantly insisting that she knows exactly where they are,

463
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: but Josh and Mike are both pissed at her, and

464
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: they do not manage to make it to the car,

465
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: so they have to set up camp again and sleep

466
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: in the woods that night when and then they hear

467
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: the same strange noises as the night before. It sounds

468
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: like large branches are cracking, they hear footsteps. They're very scared.

469
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: And every night it gets closer and lasts longer.

470
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: Is that the general it intensifies? Yeah, every night, hmm.

471
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: They wake up the following morning to discover that someone

472
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: or something has made three piles of rocks right outside

473
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: their tent, almost as if to symbolize the three filmmakers

474
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: and their graves anyway, So they're like, let's get the

475
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: fuck out of here. So they pack up, but oh no,

476
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 2: they can't find the map, So now they're more lost

477
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: than ever. They accuse Heather of losing the map, and

478
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: so they're very pissed at her again until Mike admits

479
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 2: that he threw the map in the creek the day

480
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 2: before because he thought it was useless.

481
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: He kicked it, kicked it.

482
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, what a tantrum.

483
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: Yeah a map? What a big baby?

484
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: What?

485
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: Oh ooh?

486
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 3: I forgot because I had There's apology is so iconic

487
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: that I sort of forgot that it's basically Mike's fault

488
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: that they're lost. I feel like Mike, you know, he

489
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: has his moments throughout the movie. But Mike, he's got

490
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: to go. He does, and he and he does, he does,

491
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: he did, I mean fair enough, he does.

492
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they're very pissed at Mike for doing this.

493
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: They get into a screaming match. They eventually calmed down,

494
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: but the whole crew is now extremely defeated. They find

495
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: another spot where there's all sorts of scary stuff, these

496
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: like sticks that have been tied together. They sort of

497
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: look like stick figure drawings. They're like the iconic image

498
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: of this movie, very recognizable. But they're still lost, and

499
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: so they have to make camp again for the night,

500
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: and they wake up in the middle of the night

501
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: to voices right outside their tent, and then suddenly there's

502
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: something kind of like rustling their tent from the outside.

503
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: So they take off running, but it's dark and they

504
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: can't really see, and they're super freaked out. They find

505
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: a spot to hide until the sun comes up, and

506
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: then they return to their campsite. Their stuff has been

507
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: fucked with. Josh's belongings are covered in this like weird slime,

508
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: some witch goo or something, and they're all just like

509
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: absolutely on the brink of losing their minds. It also

510
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: seems like they're going in circle where they spent an

511
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: entire day walking in one direction. They walked south, but

512
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: they still somehow ended up at the same exact spot

513
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: where they started that day. There's like this log that

514
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: had like fallen over a creek and they end up

515
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: at the same log.

516
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 5: One of the scariest parts to me, Yeah.

517
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: This isn't a spoiler, but the third installment of the franchise,

518
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: simply called Blair Wait like a full Franchi a franchise head.

519
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 2: It takes that concept and like really heightens it in

520
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: that movie basically to suggest that the Blair Witch is

521
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: capable of like either skewing people's perception of reality, or

522
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: maybe she's like messing with their compasses or just like

523
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: doing something to kind of like alter the space time

524
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: continuum so that they are like are constantly lost. And

525
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: it's not clear exactly what's happening in this movie where

526
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: again they walk in one direction, but somehow I've still

527
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: walked in a circle. So it's like, what has the

528
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: Witch done to make that possible?

529
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: But this is a movie and like a franchise that

530
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: had to like work backwards a little bit to create

531
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: Lord to continue the franchise, and I'm always fascinated at

532
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: how you're like, oh, sure, yes, it's the Witch can

533
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: alter the space time continuum, and that way the sense

534
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: that would happen. They didn't just get lost because they

535
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: didn't have a map. It was the space time continuum. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

536
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: we'll talk about the production. It is not really super

537
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 3: relevant to the topic of our show, but I just

538
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: do need to talk about it because it's so fucking weird.

539
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: But like the actors also did not know they were

540
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: going to end up in the same place at the

541
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: end of the day. Like those are like somewhat genuine reactions.

542
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: It's so bizarre because I guess they hadn't. I think

543
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: I think they say in the movie fifteen hours, but

544
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: it was not fifteen hours, but it was eight hours

545
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: that they were hiking, only to be led back to

546
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: the same spot. I too would cry.

547
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: I would cry so hard.

548
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: There are so many good moments with Heather where she

549
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: is like really trying to keep things at bay. Clearly

550
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 3: feels a sense of like confidence that turns into guilt

551
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: as the movie goes on, and then you just like

552
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: hear how she's when she's at the log and she's like,

553
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: it's the same log.

554
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 4: You're like, Yeah, she's like in denial for a while,

555
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: because Heather's like a big denial person and she's presented

556
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 4: in denial. And then that's kind of the moment that

557
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: she breaks and doesn't want to be filmed. I believe

558
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 4: at that moment for the first time, and is you know,

559
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: everybody's been like stop filming, stop filming, stop filming, what

560
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 4: are you doing? And then they kind of all break

561
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: and they start berating Heather until she basically breaks down

562
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 4: by filming her and filming her and filming her, which

563
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 4: I think is also a very interesting commentary on what

564
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 4: I'm not one hundred percent sure, but it's there.

565
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: Let's speculate later.

566
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't find a piece of writing that I

567
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: completely was like, Oh, this is the they, But I've

568
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: there's been a lot written about controlling the narrative blah

569
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, like I'm very excited to talk about.

570
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

571
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: So they've arrived at the same spot that they were

572
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: already at, so they went in one big circle. So

573
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: they have to make camp again and they do and

574
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: the next morning Heather and Mike wake up and Josh

575
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: is nowhere to be found, but all of his stuff

576
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: is still there, so they're freaking out. They decide to

577
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: head east this time, but they still can't get unlost,

578
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: so they have to make camp again that night, and

579
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: they hear what appears to be Josh's voice calling out

580
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: in agony outside of their tent, but they you know, again,

581
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: they can't see, they don't know where he is. There's

582
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: not much they can really do. They wake up the

583
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: next morning there's a bundle of sticks outside of their

584
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: tent undoes the bundle, and inside is what appears to

585
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: be Josh's shirt, and wrapped inside the shirt is blood.

586
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: There's like some teeth and a tongue, maybe some fingers,

587
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: little body parts.

588
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: You know. And Heather's like, let me say nothing.

589
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: She does not tell me Nick She's like, if I

590
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: don't say anything, it never happened. So she's like trying

591
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: to keep it together. Then we get that iconic scene,

592
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: the close up of Heather's face. She has like kind

593
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: of gone off into the woods alone at night. She's crying,

594
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: she's apologizing, she.

595
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: Improvised speech so amazed.

596
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, mm hmm. She knows she's gonna die, and she's

597
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: basically saying like, I am to blame for what happened,

598
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: and I'm so sorry. Then she hears something. It is

599
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: a man calling out for help, So Heather and Mike

600
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: re night and go looking for him. They come upon

601
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: this dilapidated house. They go inside, thinking that Josh might

602
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: be in there, and they hear yelling coming from upstairs.

603
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: So they make their way through the rooms around corners.

604
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: They don't find anything. Then they go downstairs to the basement.

605
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: They're again just running through the house, rounding corners. It's

606
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: so scary.

607
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

608
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 5: Good.

609
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: Then they so they're in the basement. Mike is kind

610
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: of ahead of Heather. They both have cameras rolling. She

611
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: keeps kind of losing him, so she's like screaming. Then

612
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: we get a shot of Mike's camera and he drops

613
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: it as if he's been kind of like attacked. Then

614
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 2: we cut to Heather and her camera. She's still going

615
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 2: down the stairs. Then she goes into the basement and

616
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: sees Mike standing in the corner facing the wall. She

617
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: screams memes. She drops her camera as if she was

618
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: attacked by the Blair Witch, but you never actually see

619
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: the witch on screen. And then that's the end of

620
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: the movie.

621
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 4: To budgetary reasons, it's so good, it's so much better

622
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 4: that they didn't show. Yeah, it's it's the monster problem.

623
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: You show the monster and it ruins it. It's always

624
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 4: gonna be scarier in your imagination, and so many horror

625
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: movies do that. At the end, you're like, no, that

626
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 4: sucks when you just show me sucks ruined.

627
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: We didn't need to see your goofy looking.

628
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: Monster unless it's Tim Curry in it.

629
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: On a weird spider.

630
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: At the end of it, rip it's hard out. I

631
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 3: read that they had someone appear and like they thought

632
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: they shot footage but it didn't come out, or something

633
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 3: like that of like someone on the production wearing all

634
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: white and wearing white pantyhose on their head, and then

635
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 3: they were.

636
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 4: Like that, well that it was like, I don't know

637
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: it even if they meant to show it or not,

638
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 4: but they did that as part of what we'll get

639
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 4: into the making of the film.

640
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 5: And it's the part where Heather's going, what the fucky

641
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 5: is that? What the ucky is that?

642
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: And she just turned and she had no idea that

643
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: someone was going to be an all white like running beside.

644
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 2: While scar Let's take another quick break and we'll come

645
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: back to discuss.

646
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: And we're back. I would love to start by talking

647
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: about the production of this movie, just because it feels

648
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: so important to do like so much. I mean, I

649
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: guess maybe not to feminism, but whatever, it's so important.

650
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 2: I think there's relevant stuff.

651
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're very much is this is I mean, this

652
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: is a movie written and I mean written quote unquote

653
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 3: because it's heavily improvised, outlined and directed by two guys,

654
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: Daniel Merrick and Eduardo Sanchez. And we've like heavily implied

655
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: to this so far. But what I didn't realize is

656
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 3: this is like the X Games of improv. Yes, and

657
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 3: way to put it, the actors like were actually obviously

658
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: knew they were in a movie, but did not know

659
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: what was going to happen. They did not know who

660
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 3: was going to die or when. The part that like

661
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: sits least well with me about the turbo improv approach

662
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: is that they were given less and less food so

663
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: that they're acting like I mean, the ethical issues are many,

664
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: but I just I had no idea that that is

665
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: the way that this movie was made, and I found

666
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: it fascinating.

667
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, the directors and then there's a producer named Greg.

668
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: Who were real Greg behavior.

669
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: Truly, they in the cast and call let people who

670
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: auditioned know that it would be a highly improvised, difficult shoot, and.

671
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 3: Then they all got paid like five hundred dollars or something.

672
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 3: Oh it's non union with pay, travel and meals. Three

673
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: weeks in Maryland, extremely challenging roles to be shot under

674
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: very difficult conditions, and you're like, God, we got to

675
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: be on strike forever.

676
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 5: This can't during lifelong trauma.

677
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, truly.

678
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah the bar is low, but at least they let

679
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: the actors know that it would be very difficult and strenuous,

680
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: because we've come across casting situations like this where the

681
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 2: filmmakers did not let the actors know to what extent

682
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: they would have to be I think we talked about

683
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: was that the Human Centipede episode. Maybe that, like the

684
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: actors were not fully filled in on like what they

685
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: would have to be doing physically, and like the various

686
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: I think horror things they have to endure.

687
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 5: Cannibal holocaust. Did that? I don't know if that's what

688
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 5: you're thinking of. It could be. I wouldn't be surprised

689
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 5: if it was also the Human Centipede.

690
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 3: Though it's interesting because as brutal as this shoot sounded,

691
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 3: it doesn't sound like any of the lasting trauma for

692
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: the actors, which is mainly we're talking about Heather Donna Hue,

693
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: who has since changed her name to ray Hans. That

694
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: was as of twenty twenty, which I think I haven't

695
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: looked into it thoroughly, but I think is at least

696
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: somewhat related to the fact that the Blur Witch Project

697
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: uses their full names. But I didn't find very much

698
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: about like being particularly traumatized by deproduction of the movie,

699
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: but rather more like after it came out, especially for

700
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 3: Ray Hants Dona Hue at the time, and that's also

701
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 3: the name of the character, so she's given a number

702
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: of interviews over the years, and I find her to

703
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: be very interesting because I'm curious what you both remember

704
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: about the reception of this movie when it came out.

705
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: It sounds like, I mean, all three of the actors,

706
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 3: you know, because of sort of the naivete of like

707
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine Brain some people were like pissed off

708
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: that they were actors that were not dead, which sounds

709
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: stressful in itself, but it sounds like Heather in particular

710
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 3: caught a ton of shit for this. She got the

711
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: Razzie for Worst Actress, which makes absolutely no.

712
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 4: Sense, absolutely no sense. No, it infuriates me beyond shit.

713
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: Gives the performance of the movie easily, like I was

714
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 3: completely shocked by that.

715
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: I want to share a quote from her yeah, where

716
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 2: she speaks to that actor formerly known as Heather Donna

717
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 2: Hugh says quote, I had actually done a student film

718
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: two years before with a young female filmmaker who definitely

719
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: had a lot of bravado. I had to think, what

720
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: kind of woman would actually keep the camera running through

721
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: horrible times A normal person would have stopped filming, So

722
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: I had to take that character to that extra driven angle.

723
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: I don't think there were a lot of female characters

724
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 2: like that in movies at the time. Definitely. I feel

725
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: like things have changed a lot. There's been a little

726
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: more leeway for female characters. I won the Razzie for

727
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: Worst Actress that year, and I think that was partly

728
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: because of the character being judged rather than the performance.

729
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: She was a very driven woman who didn't wear a

730
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: mascara and was on camera in nineteen ninety nine, so

731
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: she's basically saying, like people hated that character because of

732
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 2: and you know, we'll talk about that and the gender

733
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 2: of it all in.

734
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: A bit, but like the gender of it.

735
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was like unfairly criticized as a performer because

736
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: of the way her character is. And again it doesn't

737
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: help that like her full name was used, which she

738
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: also regrets. Yeah, that's like her biggest regret of the

739
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: movie because she like couldn't escape the Blair Witch Project

740
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: because her full name was used as the character she plays.

741
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: Which I feel like that's a bad idea. But also

742
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 3: I've read different like people are like the filmmakers shouldn't

743
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 3: have done that. I'm like, I agree with that, but

744
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: also the filmmakers could not have possibly seen this indie

745
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: movie making a quarter billion dollars, Like it is just

746
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 3: very unfortunate that that happened to all three of them.

747
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 3: But I think it's particularly like it seems to have

748
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 3: affected the actor formerly known as Heather Donahue, especially because

749
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: of how particular and like it seems gender that backlash

750
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 3: was towards her.

751
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 4: Well. Also, to speak to the Razzie again, it's like

752
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: really absurd to me because as we've talked about the

753
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 4: acting was also kind of real, like she was actually

754
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 4: very very scared, right, And to give a little bit

755
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 4: more about the production, basically how it went was each

756
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 4: day the actors would get GPS coordinates to go to

757
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 4: and when they got there they would find like a

758
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 4: box with information, very scant information about whatever they needed

759
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 4: to get across that day, information wise, plot wise, and

760
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 4: then pretty much everything else was improvised.

761
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 5: So urgy, yeah, yeah, so bizarre.

762
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, and yeah, the director's producers following them through the

763
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 4: woods screaming at night. At one point they they recorded

764
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: one of the director's kids that lived across the street

765
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 4: just playing and doing whatever they did, and just boom

766
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: boxed it outside their tent. As we mentioned, there was

767
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 4: the guy who in all white. You know, there was

768
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: like the baby crying. They set up all of the

769
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 4: stick figures, none of that. None of those things were

770
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: things that the cast was aware of at the time.

771
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 4: It's like they were very very scared. They didn't know

772
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 4: the tent was gonna start shaking.

773
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: You know.

774
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't understand how I would be interested

775
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: to see if the razzies, I mean, I guess they

776
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: would have come out before Scary movie because Scary Movie

777
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 4: was two thousand. But in Scary Movie they just take

778
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 4: the snot scene, which unfortunately kind of became the most

779
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: famous scene in the movie because when Heather is crying

780
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 4: and apologizing to Josh's mom and Mike's mom and her

781
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 4: own mom, and it's such good acting and she's got

782
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 4: snot coming out of her mouth, which is amazing, Like

783
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 4: it makes the scene so real. It's like silly, but

784
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 4: you're also like, yeah, that's what happens when you cry

785
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 4: that fucking hard. Like having an actor cry so hard

786
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 4: that snot is coming out of her mouth is good acting.

787
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 4: And then it was parodied in Scary Movie so much,

788
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 4: and it was just like so much snock ever knows

789
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 4: that's funny, but you know, it's like it just it

790
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 4: cast a pall kind of backwards on the movie and

791
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: now people just think of her with snot pouring out

792
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: her nose, which it's so annoying.

793
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 3: It's so unfair her. And I mean she also, in

794
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: that same interview that you were quoting, Kitlin like describes

795
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 3: like the frustration of like using her real name, making

796
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 3: her essentially like Ip belonging to the Blair Witch expanded universe.

797
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: Which sounds infinitely frustrated again in a way that I

798
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 3: don't think is malicious because who could have seen it,

799
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 3: But it's still like, it seems like the conversation and

800
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 3: the parodying around this movie affected her, particularly in ways

801
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: that feel very like of the time, because we don't

802
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 3: even see Heather on screen very much, because like she

803
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: as we'll talk about in a bit, is like for

804
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: the most part, dictating what you see and how you

805
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: perceive what's going on. But for the few shots, I

806
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: guess that like people were fat shaming her or like

807
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: judging her body, and like, which is just I'm This

808
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: is a quote from I believe this is from the

809
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: weak oral history of this movie that came out eight

810
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 3: or so years ago. She says, no size eight women

811
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 3: was playing the lead in dirty jeans with no mascara,

812
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 3: with unwashed hair. No Angenoux was willing to be so unfuckable.

813
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: I was the most unfuckable Angenoux to ever be in

814
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: a blockbuster. But that was the thrill, the fuck you

815
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 3: thrill of it. How could I say no to that?

816
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 3: Nobody wanted me to go into the woods with a

817
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: bunch of strange guys, But how could I say no

818
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: to improvising an entire feature without a stitch of makeup,

819
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 3: with layers of clothes and dirt and knives and nothing

820
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 3: but a pile of rocks to scare you with bad ass.

821
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: She seems really fucking cool. And then she retired from

822
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 3: acting and became a weed farmer, and I'm just like, God,

823
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 3: bless hi cod good for you.

824
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 2: Also, before she got cast in the movie, she was

825
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: a founding member of an improv company called Red Shag,

826
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: and she was in a feminist off off Broadway fringe

827
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: movement theater called Collision, So feminist icon actor formerly known

828
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: as Heather Donahue and a feminist off Broadway fringe movement theater.

829
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 3: It's so fucking cool, but it's like just even hearing.

830
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 3: I think part of the point of this, like, part

831
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: of what makes this movie plausible is that everyone looks

832
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 3: like people and like and after several days in the woods,

833
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: which they were, everyone looks like shit, because how could

834
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 3: you not look like shit? But of course the only

835
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 3: backlash it like, you don't hear about how Mike looks

836
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: like shit after three days in the woods. You only

837
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: hear how Heather looks like shit. And judgments of her,

838
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 3: which again it's like, for this time is not at

839
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: all surprising, but I was surprised at how much it

840
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 3: seemed to really affect the actor's life moving forward. And

841
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 3: I appreciate that she's been vocal about that through the years.

842
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 3: And it's funny because it's like she's not even it's

843
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 3: not that she's unsupportive of the franchise, Like she mentions

844
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 3: that she saw the twenty sixteen Blair Witch movie and

845
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 3: thought it was really good and all this stuff, but

846
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: also met with the filmmakers or the producers or whoever

847
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 3: was in control of the franchise and was like, please

848
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 3: just keep my name out of it, because the franchise,

849
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: like as you both know, continues with like her brother

850
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: goes back to try to find out what happened, and

851
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: it's like her name is like connected as a dead person.

852
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: It just sounds like, yeah, absolutely maddening. And also I'm like,

853
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: how many people in the world have ever had this problem?

854
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: It must be very isolating to have this problem.

855
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: It's right because as part of the marketing gimmick of

856
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: this movie, one of the co directors, Eduardo Sanchez, set

857
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: up this what became a famous website to help promote

858
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: the film, but it was basically feeding into the illusion

859
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: that this was a real documentary, that these were not actors,

860
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: they were student filmmakers making a documentary, and that they

861
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: died in the woods. So much so that like those

862
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: three actors were like listed as having been deceased on

863
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: IMDb for like a full year or something like that,

864
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: and a bunch of people thought that those people had

865
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: actually died and so like, so the actor's parents were

866
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: getting calls being like, I'm so sorry that your kid died,

867
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 2: like condolences, and like, what kind.

868
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 4: Of weird ass person is, Like I've got to call

869
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 4: up this mom give condolences.

870
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 5: It's so strange.

871
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 4: And to add to that, they also like made missing

872
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 4: posters for them and posted them on college campuses, which

873
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 4: was so smart because that's like definitely the age I

874
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 4: feel like that was going to go to this movie.

875
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 4: And so even at the premiere they handed out posters

876
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 4: and I want to get my mits on one of

877
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 4: those original posters. So bad of the missing people. But yeah,

878
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 4: it's like they really went hard. They didn't do any

879
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 4: press before the movie, the actors, and they never showed

880
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 4: any trailers, and that was another you know, so they

881
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 4: saved a bunch of money on advertising, which was just

882
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 4: really smart by doing this like gorilla marketing campaign.

883
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 3: And I think that like not that like a ton

884
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: of people, like except you, Chelsea, like would have seen

885
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 3: the sci Fi the doc on Sci Fi ahead of time,

886
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 3: but that just like lends the credibility of what you're seeing.

887
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: It's just ugh, it's so cool.

888
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: They put it out three days before, which was cool.

889
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 4: It was like three days before it premiered in like

890
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 4: wide release.

891
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so smart, And I didn't I also didn't realize

892
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 3: just like when I was reading through the oral history

893
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 3: that originally like the whole sort of mockumentary aspect and

894
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: like cutting out to members of the family as like

895
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 3: and you know, they died at the beginning of the movie.

896
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: It was not supposed to be all found footage. But

897
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: then it just like the filmmakers executed everything so well

898
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: and the actors did such a good job at like

899
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 3: being in the X Games of improv that that was

900
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 3: the movie. It's so fucking cool. So the last making

901
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 3: of anecdote I wanted to share has nothing to do

902
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: with their show, but I just thought was funny, was

903
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 3: that Josh did not know that he was going to die,

904
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: but then like got one of their like freaky little

905
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 3: messages and was like, hey, wait till Mike and Heather

906
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 3: go to bed tonight and then just like leave the tent.

907
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: And he didn't know why he was being forced to

908
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: leave the tent. And then the filmmakers were like, all right,

909
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: you're dead, Let's go to Denny's. And then they brought

910
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 3: him to Denny's. Done.

911
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 5: Denny's is perfect.

912
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 3: That's so funny.

913
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 5: That is exactly where I would want to go after that.

914
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 3: Denny's.

915
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: It's an American institution.

916
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 5: Is always there for you anytime.

917
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: So if it hasn't been clear. The cast camped in

918
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 2: the woods through basically the entire eight day shoot, so

919
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: they weren't like shooting, you know, your standard whatever fourteen

920
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: sixteen hour day kind of thing, and then like going

921
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 2: into a trailer or going in I think they did

922
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: spend one night in a hotel, and it was because

923
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 2: their campsite was basically flooded, just water everywhere, like an

924
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: inch of water in their tents kind of thing.

925
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 3: And the filmmakers are like, well, we can't kill them.

926
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 3: We're only paying them five hundred dollars for the worst

927
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: days of their lives.

928
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: But the rest of the time they were actually like

929
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: camping in the woods during the entire shoot. So it

930
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: was like very uncomfortable, and like we mentioned before, the

931
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 2: crew was like feeding them less and less. They were like,

932
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: you know, your safety is important to us. We're never

933
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: gonna like put you in extreme harm's way, but we

934
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: also want you to be very uncomfortable. So like they

935
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: would scale back on the amount of food that they

936
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: gave the cast each day so that when they were

937
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 2: like we're very tiired and hungry, like that was coming,

938
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: which is like very abusive.

939
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, as we.

940
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: Alluded to, it just sounds miserable.

941
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was unclear of like how much of

942
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: that was communicated in advanced Like I wasn't able to

943
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: find like super extreme detail other than they were told

944
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: in advance that it was going to be a very

945
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 3: difficult shoot. But I don't know, like, yeah, if they

946
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 3: were told that they would not receive enough food kind

947
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: of thing. Yeah, But yeah, I mean I think that

948
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 3: the ethics of this movie are definitely like can and

949
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 3: should be called into question. I'm not advocating for these

950
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 3: kinds of movies to be made more, but it's pretty

951
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: fucking cool. It's got some.

952
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: Good performances out of it. So long, I want to

953
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 2: say one last quote from the actor who plays Heather

954
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: daughter you. She says, quote, It's very hard for me

955
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: to talk about the backlash because for me it was

956
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 2: so directly personal. It was my mother sympathy cards. It

957
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: was people coming up to me on the street telling

958
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: me that they wished I was dead, saying they wanted

959
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 2: their money back.

960
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 3: They're such weirdos, freak show show.

961
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 2: For being in a movie like Go Home. It was

962
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: me in my eighty four Toyota Silica breaking down in

963
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 2: La On Losianaga underneath the billboard with my own face

964
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: on it. It was a profoundly surrendal experience. I feel

965
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 2: like her treatment by the public upon this movie coming

966
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 2: out is not dissimilar from her treatment within the movie.

967
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm reading too much into things here. Let

968
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: me know what y'all think of this, Because as I

969
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: was watching the movie, and having not to brag or anything,

970
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 2: but having directed a few students films myself, I was

971
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: picking up on a very familiar sensation of like implicit

972
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 2: gender bias, where obviously the cast of this movie Slash.

973
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: The crew making this documentary about the Blair witch within

974
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: this movie has one woman and two men, and the

975
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: woman is in charge. She's the director of the movie.

976
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: This is her project. It seems like it was her

977
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: idea to do this and that these two guys are

978
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: just helping her make it. And throughout the movie they

979
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: are constantly getting pissed at her and blaming her for

980
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 2: everything that goes wrong. Now, are they pissed at her

981
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: specifically because she's in charge and when things go wrong

982
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: you generally blame the person in charge. Or are they

983
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: pissed at her because she's a woman and they don't

984
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: trust that she's capable and that they don't trust that

985
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 2: she can get them back safely and all of these things.

986
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: Is it maybe a little bit of Column and columb

987
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: because like they never explicitly say anything like I don't

988
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 2: trust you or think that you're capable because you're a woman.

989
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 2: But also a lot of sexism is not that explicit.

990
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: It is extremely implicit because like, again, I've been in

991
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 2: situations where I was like the only fem person and

992
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: in many of those cases, like I was in charge

993
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: and I was surrounded by men and I could tell

994
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 2: that the men around me just like weren't taking me seriously.

995
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: They were questioning my judgment, They weren't trusting that I

996
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: could get the job done. They were blaming me for

997
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 2: anything that went wrong, regardless of it was my fault

998
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 2: or not. And no one like outwardly said I don't

999
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: trust you because of your gender. But when something like

1000
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 2: that is happening, you can just like tell that you

1001
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 2: people are perceiving you in that way. And so I'm

1002
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 2: convinced that these two men kept getting so pissed at

1003
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: Heather because of this implicit gender bias. Is she making

1004
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: mistakes along the way, sure, but I do feel like

1005
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 2: she's the subject of this like unfair scrutiny because she's

1006
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 2: a woman in charge.

1007
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 3: That's also supported by the fact that so much of

1008
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 3: this movie is improvised under duress. So it's like your

1009
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 3: natural biases, you know. And this is not to say

1010
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: that the two actors hate women or anything like that,

1011
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: but I do feel like the instructions they're given are

1012
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 3: so vague that, like, of course, your biases are going

1013
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 3: to sort of like bubble to the surface in those

1014
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 3: kinds of situations. It feels like a very bizarre, like

1015
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: a Stanford prison experiment kind of way to reveal those biases.

1016
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 3: I was struggling most with Mike at the beginning, and

1017
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 3: then as the movie went on, I thought Josh was

1018
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 3: more interesting because Josh starts out like he's her friend,

1019
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 3: and he is defensive of her towards the beginning, but

1020
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 3: when things start to go wrong in a meaningful way,

1021
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 3: he turns on her. And I feel like I've certainly

1022
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: had experiences like that with men that like start on

1023
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: your side, but when it's like ooh no, they kind

1024
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: of leave your side when it counts. And in a

1025
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 3: way that totally blows up in Josh's face because Mike's

1026
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 3: the one who fucking kicked the map into the creek,

1027
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 3: so whatever, But I felt I also had that same

1028
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 3: tingling sensation of just oh yeah, of course they are

1029
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 3: going to turn on her faster, and they are going

1030
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 3: to assume less competence. And all of this is complicated

1031
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 3: by the fact that none of them are experienced in

1032
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: what they're doing, like they're doing filmmakers. They don't fucking

1033
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 3: know what they're doing. But I think it's clear, especially

1034
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: as things get worse and worse, that Heather is more

1035
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 3: quickly turned on, and like that leads up to the

1036
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: scene that we've already started talking about, but I want

1037
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: to talk more about of like where she's antagonized by

1038
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 3: Josh and that's a conflict that is never resolved between

1039
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: them due to their dying.

1040
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 4: Yes, well, and it's just like I think it would

1041
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 4: be the only way to really test it, because you know,

1042
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 4: Heather makes mistakes.

1043
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 5: There's some hubris there.

1044
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: She thinks she knows where she's going, things that would

1045
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 4: piss me off if I were one of those guys. Sure,

1046
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 4: But had the director been a man, I don't think

1047
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 4: there would have ever been a scene where they're like

1048
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 4: braiding this man and filming this man, And I think

1049
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 4: there would have been like more willingness to collaborate on

1050
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 4: the problem versus just like kind of blaming Heather and

1051
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 4: ganging up on her and like, yeah, so I don't

1052
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 4: think Heather's like some angelic, innocent woman character who's.

1053
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 5: Completely fairly treated.

1054
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 4: But like, I just think the way that we'd be

1055
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 4: able to really see is like switching out how they're

1056
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 4: for a male director, and I don't imagine that it

1057
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 4: would have gone the same way. I think there might

1058
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 4: have been fist fights perhaps, but I don't even know

1059
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 4: about that.

1060
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the thing that struck me the most

1061
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 3: outside of them, like accosting her was And the first

1062
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 3: sort of inkling that like Josh is maybe has more

1063
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 3: of this inherent bias that he probably thinks he does,

1064
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 3: is that he is very, very quick to believe that

1065
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 3: Heather lost the map he is. That is like the

1066
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 3: first time that you're like, oh, that's your friend, where

1067
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 3: are you now? But he goes with Mike's version of

1068
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 3: the story Overheathers seemingly for no for a reason it

1069
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 3: wasn't clear to me. Yeah, And I feel like his

1070
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: behavior towards her, I mean, I think it's like intentional

1071
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 3: in the way that it's written and performed, but like

1072
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: there is like tru that is broken between these two friends.

1073
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: That feels. Yeah, it is like a tricky combination of

1074
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 3: leadership and like who is sort of on top of

1075
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 3: the pile? Whose project are we here for? Probably for

1076
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 3: no money because you're in college, and the gender dynamics,

1077
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 3: so it's so wild, like I can't believe this movie

1078
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 3: exists because you're like that. I'm sure that there's a

1079
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 3: bit of all of the actors, whether they like it

1080
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 3: or not in how that plays out. But I like,

1081
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 3: I think that while all of these things are true,

1082
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 3: like Heather, it can be up her own ass at moments.

1083
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 3: And I like that they are like she's an I

1084
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 3: mlegant film student too, Like she doesn't know what she's doing.

1085
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 3: None of them know what they're doing. It's the way

1086
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 3: that they treat each other once they all realize they're

1087
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: in way over their head that I feel like is

1088
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: telling well to that.

1089
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 2: Like you said, Jimmy, I appreciate that we have a

1090
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: flawed female character on screen because so few movies allow

1091
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: a woman or a fem of any kind to be flawed.

1092
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: They're so often portrayed as these like one dimensional, perfect

1093
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: little angels who never make mistakes, they have no bad qualities,

1094
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: which is obviously not what being a human.

1095
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 3: Is, right, or like the expectation of like hypercompetence in

1096
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: any woman in the front of a movie, right.

1097
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: So I like that she is. Yeah, she displays a

1098
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: lot of hubris, although I do believe because one of

1099
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: the major sources of tension between them is that they

1100
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: keep blaming her for getting them lost, and she keeps

1101
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 2: insisting that they are not lost, and it's hard to

1102
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: tell what's actually true, Like does she know exactly where

1103
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 2: they are in the map and where they are going

1104
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 2: like she says she does, and it's just the witch

1105
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: who's again like altering their perception or a reality or

1106
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: whatever the witch does. Is it that she's like too

1107
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 2: proud to admit that she is actually lost and she

1108
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: wants to inspire confidence that she is capable and she

1109
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: does know where they're going and that she's not leading

1110
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: them to danger, that kind of thing. But because sense

1111
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 2: of direction has so many gender stereotypes attached to it,

1112
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 2: and yet men stereotypically are perceived as a gender that

1113
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 2: is really good at directions and they know where they're

1114
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 2: going and they just have an inherent sense of direction

1115
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 2: and then they can just look up at the sky.

1116
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 3: Or alternatively, I think that there is like a stereotype

1117
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 3: that I find less true as time goes on, but

1118
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 3: that if they are lost, they cannot admit it. They

1119
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 3: won't stop and ask, yeah, it's so embarrassing.

1120
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, women are perceived stereotypically as people who have a

1121
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 2: really a sense of direction and who just like cannot

1122
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: navigate where they are or where they're going. And I

1123
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 2: think that plays a large part into why I feel

1124
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 2: like there's such strong implicit gender bias among these characters,

1125
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 2: is because such a huge part of the tension between

1126
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 2: them is maps and senses of direction and where they're

1127
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 2: going and that kind of stuff.

1128
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 4: Even when Mike admits to kicking the map, he blames

1129
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 4: Heather by saying it was useless anyway, So like, I

1130
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 4: kicked it because you got us lost to the point

1131
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 4: where this map is useless, So why not just fucking

1132
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 4: kick it in because you know it didn't matter anyway.

1133
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 2: So furious because she's like, it was useless to you

1134
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: parentheses because you don't know how to read it, But

1135
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 2: it was not useless to me. I knew exactly where

1136
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: we were on that map, And I like believe her

1137
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 2: as she's saying that, Like, I think that's probably legitimately true,

1138
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 2: And it's just that the witch is totally to them.

1139
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 3: Even if she's not telling the truth there, Like, that's

1140
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 3: not the reason that he doesn't believe her, So it

1141
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 3: doesn't even matter to me. It matter because I honestly

1142
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know if I believe her.

1143
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 3: It seems like she was kind of bullshitting to some

1144
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 3: extent in the previous day. But it's like it doesn't

1145
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 3: really matter because I think that like Mike doing that

1146
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 3: is even more telling because he doesn't know her. He

1147
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: has no reason to not trust that she doesn't know

1148
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 3: what she's talking about. He met her yesterday, So this

1149
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 3: is like a bias that has nothing to do with

1150
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 3: who she is, right Damn.

1151
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 4: I mean there's like, I don't know if we have

1152
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 4: more Heather, but I think there is another female character

1153
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 4: or woman character that we need to discuss, and that.

1154
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 5: Is the Witch, the Blair Witch.

1155
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Blair Witch.

1156
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1157
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 4: And you know, I think like when you do watch

1158
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 4: The Blair Witch, you don't get any information about kind

1159
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 4: of where or who this Blair Witch actually was. When

1160
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 4: you watch the documentary, you learn about the character of

1161
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 4: Ellie Kedwick, who was a witch who was accused of

1162
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 4: like drinking the blood of children, and these children in

1163
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 4: the town came or like the whole town then like

1164
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 4: tied her to a tree. She died of exposure. She

1165
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 4: had like strange symbols carved into her by this group.

1166
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 4: So it is kind of a satanic panic situation originally,

1167
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 4: but you know, you don't know was this witch actually

1168
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 4: doing these things, because after she gets murdered, essentially kids

1169
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 4: still start disappearing in the town, right, So that's when

1170
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 4: it takes on this sort of paranormal dimension. And what

1171
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 4: I think is so interesting is we get the character

1172
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 4: in the Blair Witch Project and then also in like

1173
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 4: all the supplementary stuff of Rustin Parr, who is the

1174
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 4: child murderer from the nineteen forties.

1175
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 3: Who just a wild because his name is so rest

1176
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 3: in peace. Oh yeah, that's my brilliant contract.

1177
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 4: It's based on repute's names.

1178
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1179
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Ellie Edward is a close anagram to Edward Kelly,

1180
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 2: who I forget who that is, but child murderer? Yeah, okay,

1181
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 2: righter right.

1182
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 3: I was like, we have the right guest on Thank

1183
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 3: you so much.

1184
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: I just read about it on scholarly journal, Wikipedia and

1185
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 2: then immediately forgot who it was. Rustin Parr is a

1186
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: character name or like part of the lore because the

1187
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 2: directors were like, what's an anagram for resputant? So wow, Jamie.

1188
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 5: I need to correct myself really quick. Edward Kelly was

1189
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 5: a an occultist.

1190
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I don't think he murdered anyone you know

1191
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 4: for Edward Kelly intact.

1192
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: But all this to say, and we've talked about the

1193
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 2: representation of witches in many episodes. We've covered a lot

1194
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 2: of which movies.

1195
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 3: And we're fans of which media in general.

1196
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: True, how be I was making a list of everything

1197
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 2: we've covered. We've done the Avich, We've done Witches, We've

1198
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 2: done Witches of Eastwick, The Love Witch, The Craft, Practical Magic,

1199
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 2: hocus Pocus. I would even throw Kiki's Delivery circollowen, we

1200
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 2: Love a Witch, right, And many movies that are not

1201
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: necessarily specifically about witches but have witch characters, such as

1202
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: the Wizard of Oz and things like that. Witches are

1203
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 2: very pervasive in Hollywood media, and especially horror media.

1204
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 3: And if you're covering movies that center women, you're gonna

1205
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 3: end up covering a lot of movie about witches. Very true, true,

1206
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 3: like positively and negatively right, because.

1207
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 2: I mean, most of these which movies are playing into

1208
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 2: the stereotypes and the popularly held misconception that you know,

1209
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 2: witches are evil, they're agents of the devil, they're malicious.

1210
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 2: They're almost always women, which like kind of lends this

1211
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 2: sort of like, well, women equals witches equals women are evil,

1212
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 2: which is a belief that got a lot of people,

1213
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 2: again mostly women, killed during various witch hunts and witch

1214
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 2: trials throughout history, even though, as we've discussed on other episodes,

1215
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 2: people who were perceived to be witches throughout history were

1216
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 2: usually just like empowered women or people who didn't marry

1217
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: formed of yeah, unmarried women, healers, people who didn't conform

1218
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 2: to very rigid roles as far as like gender and

1219
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 2: sexuality and things like that throughout history, and then people

1220
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 2: are like, oh, well they must be a witch, and

1221
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 2: then a lot of them were persecuted. This movie is

1222
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 2: doing the same shit.

1223
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, Chelsea, I'm curious what your thoughts are on that,

1224
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,839
Speaker 3: because it's very interesting to me that, like, you see

1225
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 3: some sort of transgressive ideas with Heather and bicentering her,

1226
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 3: but it does feel like there is like a saminess

1227
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 3: even though the way that this movie presents everything is

1228
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 3: so different, but there is a sameness to like a

1229
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 3: woman crosses a boundary and like gets a little too curious.

1230
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 3: I think that's another trope that is kind of present

1231
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 3: here and not really challenged. And yeah, the idea of

1232
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 3: the witch is just like reinforced in a way that

1233
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 3: I didn't even really almost notice the first time, because

1234
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 3: you don't see the witch, which I think helps, but

1235
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 3: it doesn't really resolve.

1236
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 4: The issue, right, you don't get who the witch was

1237
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 4: in the actual movie.

1238
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 5: Then you get the background, which does kind of present a.

1239
01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 4: Possible false accusation, but then kind of, Okay, are still

1240
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 4: getting murdered. This ventual ghost is still kind of coming

1241
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 4: after children. And I think that there's a lot to

1242
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 4: do with the Satanic panic in this movie, especially as

1243
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 4: it relates to women, and for anyone uninitiated into the

1244
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 4: Satanic panic. In the eighties and nineties, there were tons

1245
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:25,839
Speaker 4: of accusations of Satanic cults kidnapping and ritually abusing children,

1246
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 4: and this was just an idea so widely held that

1247
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 4: like Oprah Heraldo, police departments all over the country were

1248
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 4: trained in spotting Satanic ritual abuse. People were recovering memories

1249
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 4: by like dubious therapy techniques of abuses in their childhood

1250
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 4: that were so outrageous that it's so difficult to believe

1251
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 4: now that this ever happened. Children were also being coerced

1252
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 4: unintentionally by therapists and ended up in saying that all

1253
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 4: these things happened, like that their teachers in their daycares,

1254
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 4: which was like a big place like daycares or the

1255
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 4: center of this, the teachers were not only abusing them,

1256
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 4: but they were like putting them in kittie pools full

1257
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,959
Speaker 4: of baby sharks that were biting them, And that their

1258
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 4: teachers were flying around on broomsticks and they were flushed

1259
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 4: down the toilet to like live in the basement, and

1260
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 4: that there was like a gorilla's arm ripped off and

1261
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 4: a horse was sacrificed in the classroom. And yet no

1262
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 4: shred of physical evidence was ever found.

1263
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 3: I know all of this, and it is never less

1264
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 3: shocking to just hear it sort of raveled off in

1265
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 3: the list. Yeah, let's just you know, right, baby sharks,

1266
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 3: gorilla arm right.

1267
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 5: Right, right, right right, you know.

1268
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 4: So it is so difficult to believe now, and yet

1269
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 4: it was like a widely held belief in the nineties.

1270
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: There was also a lot of media and like, yeah,

1271
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 2: children's toys and a lot of things that were blamed

1272
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 2: for perpetuating this panic.

1273
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 4: Yes, rock music, yeah, D and D Yeah, absolutely everything

1274
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 4: was suspect in the eighties and nineties that fundamentalists didn't

1275
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 4: like or feminist, because feminists were also unfortunately part of

1276
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 4: this as well, not necessarily for any reason other than

1277
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 4: trying to protect children and not being educated on kind

1278
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 4: of what was going on. Because guess what, we probably

1279
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 4: all would have been like part of this because when

1280
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 4: you were in it, it was so scary. You didn't

1281
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 4: have any evidence that this wasn't happening. It's such an

1282
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 4: amazing story that there's like satanic.

1283
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 5: Cults in the woods.

1284
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 4: It's like, it's easy sometimes to believe these things when

1285
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 4: police departments in the FBI are reporting this as actually happening,

1286
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 4: right right, But then I think there's an interesting thing

1287
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 4: happening at the same time. Where Like, on one hand,

1288
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 4: the Satanic panic largely blamed women, like a lot of

1289
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,799
Speaker 4: the people who went on trial for abuses were women

1290
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 4: who were said to be sexually abusing children in these

1291
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 4: satanic rituals. And it also had a lot to do

1292
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 4: kind of in retrospect around the fact that women in

1293
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 4: the eighties and nineties were starting to work more and

1294
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 4: more and be outside of the house and daycares were

1295
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 4: becoming a lot more popular, and so a lot of people,

1296
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,799
Speaker 4: including myself, theologists who look back on this. Do believe

1297
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 4: that a lot of this backlash toward these daycares had

1298
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 4: to do with the fact that they were this symbolic

1299
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 4: thing that said, Okay, women are no longer mothers, Like

1300
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 4: women are coming out of this long term position as

1301
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 4: only homemakers, and they're like kind of like fuck this

1302
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 4: more than you know, like the sixties seventies you have

1303
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 4: more women working, but by the eighties it was like

1304
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 4: a lot more common, and it was also like very

1305
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 4: condemned by fundamentalists. So you have this like weird blame

1306
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 4: that is coming like the Witch Trials in a way, right.

1307
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 4: I mean, men were certainly blamed for some of these

1308
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 4: ritual abuses, and some men were blamed for some of

1309
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 4: the ritual abuses in the Witch Trials as well, But

1310
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 4: generally when we look at these things, we look back

1311
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,679
Speaker 4: and say, okay, this was like women doing these things,

1312
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:56,839
Speaker 4: which is so wild. But then in the nineties rattling

1313
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 4: this off, you also have third wave feminine, which I

1314
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 4: think is like, that's why I think you get so

1315
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 4: many like good witch movies, because even like the Craft

1316
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 4: is still like kind of an empowerment film, it's like

1317
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 4: also has sort of the hubrius of power and the

1318
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 4: problems with that. But you know, I think there was

1319
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 4: a reclaiming of the Witch in the nineties that came

1320
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 4: along with this new kind of feminism that was just

1321
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 4: kind of retelling these stories in a new way. So

1322
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 4: you have kind of all those influences throughout because they're

1323
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 4: writing this movie throughout the nineties, right, it comes out

1324
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 4: in ninety nine, but throughout the nineties, like we're still

1325
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 4: having the Satanic panic happening, And originally the movie was

1326
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:40,759
Speaker 4: supposed to be more satanic. They were supposed to find

1327
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 4: all these like satanic artifacts and pentagrams in the house,

1328
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,600
Speaker 4: and then they changed direction for whatever reason.

1329
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 3: Which I'm grateful that they did. This is not quite

1330
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 3: Blair Witch adjacent, but I also feel like connecting things

1331
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,600
Speaker 3: to daycares. It also feels so tied in with like

1332
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 3: the stranger danger ideas of the eighties and where it

1333
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 3: was like it was popular to make children afraid of

1334
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 3: strangers and present strangers as the ultimate danger when it's

1335
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 3: statistically more likely for danger and abuse to come from

1336
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 3: someone you know, and all this stuff. That's sort of

1337
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 3: like you don't think that there would be some level

1338
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 3: of presence to it in the Blair Witch Project, but

1339
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 3: there is like the idea of a stranger luring you

1340
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 3: out into the woods to get you. Like it does

1341
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 3: feel like there's a little bit of like late twentieth

1342
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 3: century stranger dangerous stuff tied in there as well. I

1343
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 3: wanted to talk a little bit about Heather as the

1344
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 3: visual storyteller of this movie for the most part, and

1345
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 3: I kind of wonder. I mean, I've read a couple

1346
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 3: of essays about it. The one that I want to

1347
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 3: share stuff from is from two thousand and two written

1348
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 3: by Denica McDonald. It's called Trespasses into Temptation, Gendered Imagination

1349
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 3: and the Blair Witch Project. I don't agree with everything

1350
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 3: in in this essay, but I thought it was really

1351
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 3: interesting and sort of like gets into this in a

1352
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 3: very academic way. She's quoting the shit out of Laura

1353
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 3: Mulvey and I like had flashbacks to my freshman year

1354
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 3: of college, but both kind of talks about how there is,

1355
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,879
Speaker 3: first of all, the very sey presentation of the Witch

1356
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 3: like we've just talked about, but also in a way

1357
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 3: that feels like it possibly got lost when the movie

1358
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 3: came out because there's so much about this movie that's

1359
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 3: so interesting and different that it's like a little easier

1360
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 3: to forget that there are very stereotypical horror tropes present

1361
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 3: in this movie too, where like a woman gets too

1362
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:47,600
Speaker 3: curious and has to receive her come up and for

1363
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 3: crossing this invisible boundary of where you're not supposed to go.

1364
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 3: So I wanted to share a little bit from her

1365
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 3: essay because I just thought it was interesting. For the

1366
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 3: first half of the film, Heather is the strongest character

1367
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 3: in the film. She's focused, organized, domineering. She refuses to

1368
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 3: be the object of both the larger films gaze and

1369
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 3: the documentary's gaze. She has brought her own camera to

1370
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 3: record all of the events that take place. Moreover, the

1371
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 3: project was her idea. She takes possession of the only

1372
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,799
Speaker 3: map for the excursion, as well as the only compass.

1373
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 3: It is also Heather who has scouted out the project

1374
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 3: and who leads the excursion. Literally, she holds all the cards. However,

1375
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:28,760
Speaker 3: out of all the characters, it is Heather who has

1376
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 3: the most difficulty accepting the reality of events around her. Thus,

1377
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 3: when she realizes she is losing control of her controlled

1378
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 3: and well planned project, she frantically dismisses what she cannot explain.

1379
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,799
Speaker 3: She repeatedly refuses to accept the seriousness of the situation

1380
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 3: she finds herself in and desperately tries to hold on

1381
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 3: to what is real by reheating phrases such as things

1382
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 3: like this just do not happen in America. This is America.

1383
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 3: It is impossible to get lost, it is impossible to

1384
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 3: stay lost, which I think I wonder how improvised that

1385
01:18:57,200 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 3: line was, because that, to me, I was like, Wow,

1386
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 3: that's a fun in like doctoral thesis is worth of

1387
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 3: something to talk about inside of that.

1388
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,560
Speaker 5: And then they all scream God bless America.

1389
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, or the two guys just starts screaming that, which

1390
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 4: I think is interesting too. Write like she says that,

1391
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,840
Speaker 4: and then they just start screaming these like American anthems. Yeah,

1392
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 4: just because you know they've they've obviously lost it a bit.

1393
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 5: But that's also interesting.

1394
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 3: But the idea of like, and I genuinely don't know

1395
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 3: how intentional this was in the filmmaking because of how

1396
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 3: it was made, but I think it's very rare to

1397
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 3: in general, give anyone who's not a man a camera

1398
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 3: and give them narrative control. I love that they give

1399
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 3: that to Heather, and they also take it away from

1400
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 3: her in certain moments where it's like, technically most of

1401
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,600
Speaker 3: this movie is presented by quote unquote the female gaze,

1402
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 3: but it isn't because of not only the moments where

1403
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 3: you see the black and white of I think it

1404
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 3: Josh is shooting, but also it's like inherent to the movie.

1405
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 3: And I think, like the website lord that two male

1406
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 3: directors were hired to edit it so fascinating. I don't

1407
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 3: know even what to make of it, because a lot

1408
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 3: of it feels like probably unintentional, but to like have

1409
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 3: a woman at the front of a movie thinking that

1410
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 3: she is controlling, you know, controls the gaze of the movie,

1411
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 3: but everything about the way it happens is taken out

1412
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 3: of her control and is like sort of used to

1413
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 3: undermine her credibility as a storyteller because you know that

1414
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 3: she dies when the movie starts, and you get to

1415
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 3: see all of these things that she doesn't want you

1416
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 3: to see. I just think it's very interesting. I can't

1417
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 3: think of another movie like it, I know, definitely, and

1418
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 3: then the America stuff just I don't know. I feel

1419
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,879
Speaker 3: like that's almost like a little cherry on top of

1420
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 3: what you were talking about just now Chelsea, where it's

1421
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 3: just like sort of the exceptionalist arrogance of Americans and

1422
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 3: of like this like specific late twentieth century kind of

1423
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,560
Speaker 3: moment where you're like a bad thing wouldn't happen in America,

1424
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, baby, hang in there.

1425
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 4: This is like so similar to me, to another thing,

1426
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 4: and I am absolutely obsessed with which is the story

1427
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 4: of the Donner Party. And they are another group of

1428
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 4: people who kind of marched into a situation believing that

1429
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 4: everything would be completely fine because sort of that maybe

1430
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 4: partially because of the halo of protection that we have

1431
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 4: as Americans, or we think that we have because of

1432
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 4: this idea of like manifest destiny, like this is our land,

1433
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 4: this is our place, like nothing bad can happen to us,

1434
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 4: because like we are chosen to go westward and like

1435
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 4: it's sanctioned by our higher power, and so we can

1436
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 4: act however we want. Because the Donner Party just they

1437
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 4: did things like stop and party for three days when

1438
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 4: they were like two weeks behind the weather. They did

1439
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 4: these things that landed them in this situation, believing hucksters

1440
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 4: who told them they'd be completely fine going in this

1441
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 4: other direction and getting lost, and there's so there are

1442
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 4: a lot of parallels between these two stories, not to

1443
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 4: say that you know, it's the same intention behind going

1444
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 4: into the woods, but there is something like particular to me,

1445
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 4: I don't know about like three white young people going

1446
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 4: into the woods being like everything's gonna be totally fine.

1447
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 4: You know, we're gonna like go and I would do

1448
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 4: this speaking as someone who would absolutely have done this

1449
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 4: and absolutely been the heather of the situation.

1450
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 3: I think we all would have been the heather at

1451
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 3: different points in a judgment.

1452
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 5: Just a fact.

1453
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think that there's still like an interesting

1454
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 4: thing about that, like hubrisk, because that's a big theme

1455
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 4: of this film, is like you think you can go

1456
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 4: and chase like the paranormal and you can go after

1457
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 4: like these stories and you have like the site of

1458
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 4: a halo of protection. I used to travel in just

1459
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 4: such dangerous ways.

1460
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 5: I used to hitch II. You can do all these things,

1461
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 5: And looking back, I'm like.

1462
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I absolutely had this like idea that I was

1463
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 4: protected somehow, And there is something to that as well,

1464
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 4: like that lens of some kind of privilege or some

1465
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 4: kind of invincibility.

1466
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 5: That also has to do with youth, of course, like

1467
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 5: the folly of being in your early twenties.

1468
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 4: Sure, but yeah, I think that that's kind of another

1469
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:35,520
Speaker 4: lens of like the overconfidence certain groups in America myself, including.

1470
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,799
Speaker 2: Totally young white middle class yeah people.

1471
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, And that's like so much of like

1472
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 3: what this movie shows feels just like experimental and possibly unintentional.

1473
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 3: Where I don't know that we've mentioned this yet, but

1474
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 3: originally the directors envisioned it being three men who were

1475
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 3: leading this movie. And it wasn't until how they're auditioned

1476
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 3: and gave an amazing audition that they were like, oh,

1477
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 3: actually we're going to put you at the center of

1478
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 3: this movie. So so much of what is gendered about

1479
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 3: this movie is very possibly not a part of the

1480
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 3: original plan. But that's not to say that that doesn't

1481
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 3: come into the performances and into the editing and into

1482
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 3: the marketing and into the reception. It's just so bizarre

1483
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 3: and fascinating and the same thing of like it's the

1484
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 3: late nineties, So I don't know, but it's like I

1485
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 3: wonder how intentionally they were cast for Race for Appears.

1486
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 3: I Mean, it's all kind of unclear, but it comes

1487
01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 3: out just because of how the movie was shot and

1488
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 3: made and what it seems like the personal experiences of

1489
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 3: the actors were because so much of them had to

1490
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 3: go into the parts. Yeah, the America stuff. I was like,

1491
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 3: oh fuck, I totally forgot about that part of the movie. Wow,

1492
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 3: not them cultural commentarying at the turn of the Millennium.

1493
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 2: No, Well, one of the things Heather says is when

1494
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 2: they're being like hunted in the woods and they don't

1495
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 2: really know who or what is hunting them, she says

1496
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 2: something like, well, they can't chase us forever because this

1497
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 2: is America where we've destroyed most of our natural resources,

1498
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,440
Speaker 2: basically saying like, we're gonna run out of forest eventually

1499
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:23,440
Speaker 2: and we will come upon the civilization.

1500
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:27,639
Speaker 3: Not even totally misguided thoughts, but come.

1501
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 2: On, yeah, that would be my logic. If I was

1502
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 2: lost in the woods, I'd be like, well, if I

1503
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 2: just keep walking in a direction, there will be a

1504
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 2: road eventually.

1505
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 3: But you never see the blur witch controlling the space

1506
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 3: time continuing. No one's ready.

1507
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 4: For that exactly, And I love that they just throw

1508
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 4: in this little pinch of hillbilly horror where we have

1509
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 4: I believe Josh saying Oh my god, I think that

1510
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 4: there's like some redneck I can't remember what he says,

1511
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 4: but some rednecks fucking with us out in the woods,

1512
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 4: which I all say, so really, I'm into looking at

1513
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 4: horror movie through the lens of class and like that

1514
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 4: they're out in the woods and this is kind of

1515
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 4: the only place where these like scary, impoverished people live

1516
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 4: who are gonna get you if you go into the woods. Again,

1517
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 4: like that like middle class college student, like a Deliverance

1518
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 4: type movie where it's like, oh, we're just gonna like

1519
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 4: canoe down this river because nothing bad will happen to us,

1520
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 4: even the way of like no real plan. And yeah,

1521
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,639
Speaker 4: I think that that's another just like interesting American moment

1522
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 4: in the movie that we're kind of led to believe

1523
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 4: that could be a possibility at least.

1524
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 3: And you can feel that in how the interviews go

1525
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 3: at the top of the movie as well, where there's

1526
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 3: especially when they come into contact with Mary Brown, which

1527
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 3: feels like a combination of they do not think she

1528
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 3: is of sound mind. I think they're also judging her

1529
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 3: because she's poor and she's old. Yeah, and then also

1530
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 3: another time with the guys that are fishing, Like you

1531
01:26:57,320 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 3: can just even hear I don't know, like you can

1532
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 3: hear in Heather voice that she's like, I don't take

1533
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 3: these people seriously because they are poor and live rural.

1534
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not listening to the Harbingers and there's like

1535
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 4: a bunch of them and they're just a you know,

1536
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 4: they're not listening to them at all, which is a

1537
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 4: you know, classic horror and a classic college student mistake.

1538
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh even makes a reference to Deliverance because like

1539
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 2: that's the thing, like people's frame of reference for a

1540
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 2: lot of just what happens in life is the media

1541
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 2: they've consumed. And he's like, well, probably what's happening is

1542
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 2: that there are like people who live in the woods

1543
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 2: and they're the ones fucking with us.

1544
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 3: Like in Deliverance, You're like, who do you think made that, Josh?

1545
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 3: Middle class white people you feel defice.

1546
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:50,720
Speaker 2: Similarly, I forget which character it's either Mike or Josh.

1547
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 2: They come upon that like makeshift cemetery and one of

1548
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 2: them says and it's just like a throwaway line of dialogue.

1549
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 2: It's not a plot point or anything like that. It's

1550
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 2: just like a they said something, and he says ooh,

1551
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 2: looks like an Indian burial ground, which is like, first

1552
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 2: of all.

1553
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 3: We've also talked about on this show, which is just.

1554
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, an example of something scary or haunted being

1555
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: likened to indigenous history in some way. Where again, as

1556
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:26,639
Speaker 2: we've discussed, so many horror movies attribute something very scary

1557
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 2: to a native burial ground being disturbed or a Native

1558
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 2: quote unquote curse of some kind, something like that that

1559
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 2: a character again just like makes a throwaway comment about.

1560
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: I feel like there's also a similar moment, another throwaway

1561
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 2: line where they talk about like voodoo or like a

1562
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 2: I think they like see the stick figures and make

1563
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 2: a reference to how they're like voodoo dolls. We've also

1564
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,720
Speaker 2: talked about this the way that Princess and the Frog, Yeah,

1565
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: that voodoo is widely misrepresented in media.

1566
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:08,960
Speaker 3: It's such a fascinating like time capsule of these very

1567
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 3: specific biases that still exist. But it's just like the

1568
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 3: way it's laid out in this movie is very natural

1569
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 3: because it basically is yeah, yeah.

1570
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 4: And these biases are coming out, and like the acting,

1571
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,320
Speaker 4: because they don't have a script, So I am assuming

1572
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 4: that Josh did not have a script that said this

1573
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:28,679
Speaker 4: is an Indian burial ground. You should say something about

1574
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,719
Speaker 4: this being an Indian burial ground. That's like just coming

1575
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 4: completely out of the influence that media has had on

1576
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:37,679
Speaker 4: him completely. Yeah, which is just as interesting as a script.

1577
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 4: It's it's basically the same thing. It's still the writer

1578
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 4: slash actors bias being expressed.

1579
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 2: Which I feel like those three actors should have been

1580
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 2: credited writers on the movie since it's all their dialogue,

1581
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 2: but they were not credited as writing the movie. The

1582
01:29:55,600 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 2: only credited writers are the two directors, Daniel Merrick and

1583
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:05,559
Speaker 2: Eduardo Sanchez, who wrote that outline for the movie. So yeah,

1584
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 2: they conceived the story and the basic plot points, but

1585
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 2: it was the actors.

1586
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 3: But like the most iconic moment of this movie was

1587
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:19,800
Speaker 3: technically written by the actor formerly known as Heather Donihue.

1588
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:21,759
Speaker 3: Those are her words.

1589
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:25,719
Speaker 2: I just wanted to point out two quick things. One

1590
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 2: is that speaking of like their biases just kind of

1591
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 2: coming through in the dialogue they're improvising. A few of

1592
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 2: them make some fat phobic in like body shaming comments. Also,

1593
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:47,679
Speaker 2: one of the guys is filming Heather when she's trying

1594
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 2: to pee in the woods, which is very gross.

1595
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 3: Illegal and they film her dirty butt, yeah, which is

1596
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 3: very friend evil friend behavior. I will say, not that

1597
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,639
Speaker 3: it excuses it, but zooming in on someone's dirty butt rude.

1598
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 3: I'll make the controversial observation that it could happen to

1599
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 3: any of us.

1600
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 5: It's classic comedy.

1601
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 2: I would never do that. I would never film your

1602
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:12,720
Speaker 2: dirty butt, Jamie. I just want you to know that

1603
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 2: Jamie would film me.

1604
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 3: I might film your dirty but I don't know. I

1605
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 3: don't know. It depends on how dirty it is.

1606
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 5: The ruth comes up, how.

1607
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 3: Feisty I was feeling on that day.

1608
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 5: But you wouldn't put it in them.

1609
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put it in the final cut, think, but

1610
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 3: I maybe send it to a group text.

1611
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 2: Oh sure, fair? Yeah, does anyone have anything else?

1612
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1613
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 5: I think that's good.

1614
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1615
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 3: I think that this movie does pass the Baxel test.

1616
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:38,000
Speaker 5: It does.

1617
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Between Heather and Mary Brown, yay. And if we

1618
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 2: knew the local that they're interviewing, who's like holding the

1619
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:48,920
Speaker 2: toddler in her arms, if we knew her name, which.

1620
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,559
Speaker 3: It spiritually passes to me. Yeah, her real name is

1621
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 3: Susie Gooch, which is also like, okay, an incredible name.

1622
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 3: I'd love Susie Gooch.

1623
01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 4: I think it's also worth pointing out that there is

1624
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:02,760
Speaker 4: no romance true at all in this movie, So there's

1625
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:08,679
Speaker 4: actually no conversation at all about a man romantically. It's

1626
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 4: like the only girlfriend we have is Josh saying like,

1627
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 4: my girlfriend's gonna know I'm missing, and that's kind of

1628
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:16,000
Speaker 4: like the only.

1629
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 3: Line, Like we got that, Josh, we get it.

1630
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 5: Does she live in Canada?

1631
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,600
Speaker 3: I read in the oral history that that was originally

1632
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 3: written into the outline was that Josh and had There

1633
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 3: had a romantic So it's like, you can't even hand

1634
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 3: it to the director because they originally wrote in that

1635
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 3: like Josh and had There had a romantic history. But

1636
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 3: then based on how the early improvised scenes were going,

1637
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 3: they're like, forget it cool because their relationship was becoming

1638
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:43,720
Speaker 3: so friend antagonistic that they're like, let's just cut that

1639
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 3: element and have you just react to each other. But yeah,

1640
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,760
Speaker 3: they weren't above it, but it just was like a

1641
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 3: testament to the actors, like, I mean, it wasn't necessary

1642
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,640
Speaker 3: either way, right, Definitely, their performance has made it clear.

1643
01:32:56,080 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 2: Interesting, So yes to passing the Bechdel type, but onto

1644
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 2: the perfect metric. The Bechdel cast nipple scale, which is

1645
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 2: our scale where we rate the movie zero to five

1646
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:16,080
Speaker 2: nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.

1647
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 2: And I will give this ooh two and a half

1648
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:27,599
Speaker 2: or three nipples just because I really like the character

1649
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 2: of Heather in that I appreciate that she feels so

1650
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 2: authentically human in the way that women are not often

1651
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 2: allowed to be on screen. She's flawed and she has

1652
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:49,160
Speaker 2: to deal with again what I interpret as implicit gender bias.

1653
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:53,360
Speaker 2: Whether or not that was an intentional piece of the

1654
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 2: filmmakers or not, it is how I experienced the movie.

1655
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 2: As I was watching it. Two men's treatment of her

1656
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 2: felt extremely familiar to me in that very kind of

1657
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 2: gendered way where totally they aren't coming out and saying

1658
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 2: it explicitly, but their behavior and just the way they

1659
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 2: interact with her and the way they do not really

1660
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 2: trust her at any point again felt as though they

1661
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:29,799
Speaker 2: were harboring these sexist biases, and I think that's interesting

1662
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 2: to watch. And again, whether as intentional or not, it

1663
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:39,639
Speaker 2: is there to me so and it's something I never

1664
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 2: noticed until this watch of it either. But I also

1665
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:47,719
Speaker 2: hadn't seen the movie since I was a teenager probably However,

1666
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:52,240
Speaker 2: the lack of challenging of like the traditional witch narrative

1667
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:57,519
Speaker 2: of oh, of course there was a witch who is

1668
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 2: evil because which is be evil murderers for no reason,

1669
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 2: that not being challenged at all, and that trope just

1670
01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 2: being fully leaned into. And you don't get much backstory

1671
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 2: or lore of the Blair Witch in this movie, but

1672
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,400
Speaker 2: in the two sequels, and I think I didn't watch

1673
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 2: that documentary that you're both referring to, but it seems

1674
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 2: like there's more lore that is canon to the property

1675
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 2: and to the Blair Witch, that dives more into who

1676
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 2: the Blair Witch was and what she's all about. And

1677
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 2: again it's just like playing into those tropes of like

1678
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:46,600
Speaker 2: woman equals which equals evil. So didn't care much for that.

1679
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 2: So with that in mind, I think I'll give the

1680
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:52,360
Speaker 2: movie two and a half nipples, and I'll give one

1681
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:57,639
Speaker 2: to the actor formally known as Heather donaghue, and I'll

1682
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 2: give one to Mary Own, and then I'll give my

1683
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 2: half nipple to the woman who has the toddler, Yeah,

1684
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:12,680
Speaker 2: who improvised Susy.

1685
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 5: Gooch and famously now a corn.

1686
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:19,160
Speaker 2: Fan whose daughter is now a huge cornhead baby gooch

1687
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:22,719
Speaker 2: a Corn Cob if you will, totally corn.

1688
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:25,120
Speaker 5: So yeah, that's my reading.

1689
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:28,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna go three. I really enjoyed getting to

1690
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 3: talk about this movie. This movie does so many things.

1691
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 3: I don't even really care if it's intentional or not,

1692
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 3: because it's like what we have and there's so few

1693
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,639
Speaker 3: movies like it where it's like you're literally stressed testing

1694
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 3: late nineties white middle class biases just inherently to how

1695
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 3: this project was made. It's so interesting. I really I

1696
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 3: have a lot of love for the character Heather, and

1697
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,840
Speaker 3: the actor formerly known as Heather Donahue, and all of

1698
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:59,120
Speaker 3: the actors. I mean, just like absolutely wild that they

1699
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 3: survived this experience. And again, whether intentional or not, the

1700
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 3: idea of like a woman controlling the narrative and having

1701
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 3: the narrative taken away from her after her death and

1702
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:13,519
Speaker 3: also in the last day of her life, I think

1703
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:17,320
Speaker 3: is really fascinating. And if it's a mistake, I don't care.

1704
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 3: It's fucking cool. And then there's all the less challenging

1705
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:25,200
Speaker 3: part of this that we've talked about, of the presentation

1706
01:37:25,280 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 3: of witches and how Heather's treated in certain moments. I think, honestly,

1707
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 3: the presentation of the Witch herself is the thing I

1708
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,839
Speaker 3: have the biggest issue with because how had There's treated

1709
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 3: does feel like a part of that stress test, and

1710
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 3: it feels very relevant to how her character works out.

1711
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:46,480
Speaker 3: And I think it's frustrating and fascinating that the apology

1712
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 3: scene is what most people remember from this movie because

1713
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 3: it is a scene that is credited as being written

1714
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 3: by two men when it was not. It's a great

1715
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 3: piece of acting that was widely mocked for years, in

1716
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 3: years and years, and it kind of I think because

1717
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 3: it's famous, which is again, this isn't a fault of

1718
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:10,320
Speaker 3: the movie, really, but I mean, like, let you sort

1719
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 3: of believe that Heather brought this on to herself and

1720
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 3: brought this on to her friends. Yeah, with the apology

1721
01:38:16,240 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 3: sort of being the thing that sticks with her. No,

1722
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 3: no one, It doesn't stick with anyone. That Mike's the

1723
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 3: one that got rid of the map. It doesn't like

1724
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 3: the other characters. Accountability isn't what sticks with people. And

1725
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 3: so I just think the movie fucking rips hell, and

1726
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 3: I just really enjoy talking about it with you both.

1727
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to give it three nips, and I'm going

1728
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 3: to give them all two Ray Hants aka the actor

1729
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:45,799
Speaker 3: formerly known as Heather Donna Hugh looking forward to figuring

1730
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 3: out where I can buy her weed online.

1731
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:52,799
Speaker 4: I think she's out of the game now, sadly. Damn,

1732
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:56,680
Speaker 4: she's just being a Buddhist now, which is rad and

1733
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 4: I would be too distressful history.

1734
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:03,880
Speaker 3: You're going to a balance, seriously, this has been your life, yeah, Chelsea,

1735
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:05,040
Speaker 3: how about you? Ugh?

1736
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:09,759
Speaker 4: Okay, I think that one of the most interesting themes.

1737
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 4: And that makes me again like agree with you both

1738
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:16,960
Speaker 4: really about the portrayal of the witch being the most

1739
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:22,639
Speaker 4: egregious offense against like women. And I didn't actually mention

1740
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 4: this before, but there's a theme of blame, which we've talked.

1741
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:27,920
Speaker 3: About with Heather.

1742
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:30,320
Speaker 4: But then we can also look at the blame that

1743
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 4: was placed if we're looking outside of the movie, which

1744
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 4: I think is okay, because these things existed in kind

1745
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:39,559
Speaker 4: of concert with each other. So it's like, yeah, it's

1746
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,559
Speaker 4: the Blair Witch Project. But a lot of people were

1747
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 4: on the website, a lot of people were watching the

1748
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:47,760
Speaker 4: fake documentary, and you learn about Ellie Kenwick who is

1749
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 4: blamed by the town for the disappearances of children and

1750
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:54,960
Speaker 4: then murdered, and then you also have Rust and Parr,

1751
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 4: the child murderer of the nineteen forties who is essentially

1752
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 4: considered to have been possessed by a woman. Right, So

1753
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 4: it's like we have this actual horrific murderer that did exist.

1754
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 5: There's no lore.

1755
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:10,439
Speaker 4: It's like Rust and Parr existed, he killed children, they

1756
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:14,559
Speaker 4: were found, but it's still somehow a woman's fault, like

1757
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 4: the map is somehow Heather's fault. Right, So there's this

1758
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 4: like theme of blame that isn't really analyzed in any way.

1759
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:23,000
Speaker 5: So let's see.

1760
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I'm going to go up to

1761
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 4: three because mostly because of my bias and being so

1762
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 4: in love and obsessed with this movie.

1763
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 5: Heather, Mary Brown, Ellie Kedwick, hell Ya.

1764
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 4: And you know what, maybe I'll give another Well now

1765
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 4: I can't give one for marketing, but I would just

1766
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 4: like to say the best marketing that has ever existed

1767
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:45,719
Speaker 4: in any franchise period.

1768
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, completely impossible to replicate. Like it's just never again,

1769
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 3: so fucking cool, Never again, Chelsea, thank you so much

1770
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 3: for bringing this to us. I just like, there's no

1771
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:57,880
Speaker 3: one I would rather talk about this movie with.

1772
01:40:58,400 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 5: That's so nice.

1773
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 4: I am so grateful that you asked me on and yeah,

1774
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 4: it was a joy ride for sure.

1775
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:05,960
Speaker 5: Of Hubris.

1776
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 2: What a wonderful camping troop.

1777
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 4: You know, in those Maryland woods. I'm from the Northwest,

1778
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 4: not as scary. Our woods are not as scary as

1779
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 4: those thin trees out there.

1780
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:19,000
Speaker 5: Oh it's so freaky. I want to go. So I

1781
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 5: guess we're camping, right.

1782
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 3: I'm coin, I'm cone see you there.

1783
01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:25,519
Speaker 2: Here's a quick little story to end the episode with.

1784
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:28,160
Speaker 2: I grew up in the middle of the woods in

1785
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:34,640
Speaker 2: rural western Pennsylvania. There was a local legend that is

1786
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 2: like in local history books about this ghost who was

1787
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 2: haunting people and then he manifested as this eternal flame

1788
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:49,120
Speaker 2: and so the but this flame that like popped out

1789
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 2: of the ground one day was actually just like a

1790
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 2: pocket of natural gas that ignited maybe from lightning or something.

1791
01:41:55,640 --> 01:42:01,719
Speaker 2: But this flame, this like or eternal flame, ghost flame,

1792
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 2: was right outside my house where like my dad built

1793
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 2: a little like well.

1794
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:12,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, sessed. So there's a shit.

1795
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 2: Ghost story that existed on my property growing up.

1796
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 3: Okay, your neighbor was the eternal flame.

1797
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, it's like the legend of the burning Well,

1798
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:24,639
Speaker 2: I'll look into it. I'll see if I can find anything.

1799
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 2: I was like, you have to talk to listen.

1800
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 5: This is a great moment for self promo here.

1801
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:33,599
Speaker 4: This is American Hysteria has been doing a new project

1802
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 4: called the Urban Legends Hotline, and you go to our

1803
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 4: website Americanassria dot com and you can leave a message

1804
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 4: about an urban legend that you had growing up, and

1805
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,640
Speaker 4: then we turn it into like a very detailed and

1806
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,840
Speaker 4: very intensive episode. So I would love if you called

1807
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 4: in and talked about this ghost flame because I love

1808
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,160
Speaker 4: it and you never know what you're gonna find. We

1809
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:56,879
Speaker 4: analyze it through every possible lens, newspapers, dot com.

1810
01:42:57,200 --> 01:42:57,599
Speaker 5: We're there.

1811
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:02,600
Speaker 3: I listened to the pig People episode. That was a

1812
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:04,360
Speaker 3: hotline episode, right, Yeah it was.

1813
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:08,760
Speaker 4: It was cannibal pig people murdering teenagers. That's the kind

1814
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:10,679
Speaker 4: of stuff you can find on our show.

1815
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us all about your show where people can

1816
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 2: find it, etc.

1817
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, American Hysteria, you can find it anywhere you get

1818
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:23,680
Speaker 4: your podcasts. And yeah, we cover the fantastical thinking of Americans,

1819
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 4: moral panics, urban legends, conspiracy theories, hoaxes, crazes, anything that

1820
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 4: kind of stirs a large amount of people.

1821
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 5: We try to cover.

1822
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:36,840
Speaker 4: So a lot of the shows are written narrative me

1823
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,719
Speaker 4: describing talking, and we have clips.

1824
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 5: You know, it's very multi media project.

1825
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 4: And then we also have interview episodes with all kinds

1826
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 4: of cool guests talking about all kinds of cool topics.

1827
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 5: So I hope you guys come and listen.

1828
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:52,439
Speaker 2: Hell yes, and thank you again for joining us. Come

1829
01:43:52,479 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 2: back anytime.

1830
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:55,240
Speaker 5: Please, yeah, just say the word.

1831
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 2: You can follow us on social media at Bechtel Cast.

1832
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 2: You can somebscribe to our Matreon at patreon dot com

1833
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:08,479
Speaker 2: slash Bechtel Cast, where you get two bonus episodes every

1834
01:44:08,479 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 2: single month, plus access to the back catalog of many

1835
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 2: many bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month.

1836
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 3: And you can get our merch over at teapublic dot

1837
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 3: com slash the Bechtel Cast. And with that, let's go

1838
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 3: into the Freaky house and get gun.

1839
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 5: I Dream.

1840
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 2: I'm down. Bye bye,