1
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: I am a woman. Hear me roar in numbers too

2
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: big to ignore, and I know too much to go

3
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 1: back and pretend because I've heard it all before and

4
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,520
Speaker 1: I've been down there on the floor. No one's ever

5
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,080
Speaker 1: going to keep me down again. I am strong, I

6
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:35,320
Speaker 1: am invincible, I am woman. That song from Helen Ready

7
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: came out in ninety one. I was fourteen years old,

8
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,240
Speaker 1: and Brian, that was the beginning of my ursioning feminism.

9
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,240
Speaker 1: That's exciting. I was negative ten when it came out. Wait, really,

10
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: it was a really meaningful moment. This was ten years

11
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: before you were born. It was I'm sorry to report

12
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to reach across this desk and slap you. Yeah,

13
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first time anyway. But yeah, that's

14
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 1: equal rights, isn't it. But you know, I think that

15
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 1: that song was so important to me in my formative years.

16
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 1: That and the Mary Tyler Moore Show, because let's face it, Brian,

17
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 1: she could take a nothing day and suddenly make it

18
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: all seem worthwhile. Why are we talking about all of this? Well,

19
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 1: at the convention in Philadelphia, we saw the first female

20
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 1: nominee for President of the United States in history, and

21
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 1: no matter what your politics are. That's a pretty big deal.

22
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 1: So we wanted to get a take on what this means,

23
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,600
Speaker 1: how people feel about it. We went out to Times

24
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: Square to talk to women and men, boys and girls

25
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,520
Speaker 1: about the prospect of the first female president, female president.

26
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,679
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk to me? So? And here's

27
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 1: some of the things they had to say. Where are

28
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 1: you from New York? Oh? You were, Well, how do

29
00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 1: you feel about potentially having a female president? It's everything,

30
00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 1: it's everything that we need. Doesn't mean anything to you,

31
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 1: but I mean it's kind of surprising. Why because like

32
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: if it's like the first girl, I mean, it's always

33
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:18,280
Speaker 1: a new thing. So how old are you? Okay, So,

34
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 1: how do you think you'll feel if, in fact Hillary

35
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 1: Clinton's elected and you watch her being inaugurated? Proud? Kind

36
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 1: of like we could all do it too. They give

37
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,680
Speaker 1: you one day I could be president. Um. I think

38
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: it's more significant of the person and the character rather

39
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 1: than the person's gender. Um. When I'm looking at voting

40
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,959
Speaker 1: for somebody, I'm not looking at sex, race, religion, anything,

41
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 1: looking at what they stand for and what they're doing.

42
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 1: And so, how do you feel about you? Can you

43
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,959
Speaker 1: tell me who you're voting for UM, I'm winning much

44
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 1: more towards Trump than than through for Hillary. How do

45
00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,920
Speaker 1: you feel about it, I don't think. I don't really

46
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 1: it's a matter. I think it's a your opportunity. Personally,

47
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 1: I feel like how the female president will probably change

48
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 1: the standards of you know, I don't know. I feel

49
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 1: like it's kind of an equal in the world of

50
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: men and women. We get paid less, men get paid more.

51
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 1: So if Hillary does become president, maybe those rules were

52
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,359
Speaker 1: changed when everyone is kind of equal. It's not. As

53
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 1: she's a good president, then it would be great. So

54
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: her ability matters more to you than her gender. Half

55
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:38,680
Speaker 1: in half, we're excited to have the fictional feminist heroin

56
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: Julia Louis dryfe is akj or anti heroin Selina Meyer,

57
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: who is currently running the country, at least on HBO.

58
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 1: Like so many Americans, I have a massive girl crush

59
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 1: on Julia Louis dreyfuss. I first met her as Elaine

60
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 1: on Seinfeld and I did a story on the final

61
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: episode of Seinfeld, so I went to the set. We

62
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 1: had so much fun, and in fact, she taught me

63
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 1: some of her moves on the dance floor, which is

64
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: my favorite Seinfeld episode explained so much about you on

65
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: the dance floor. Hey wait a second, I'm a really

66
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,120
Speaker 1: good dancer. I have to work hard to look like

67
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 1: a bad dancer. Actually, Brian, come on, but we I

68
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,840
Speaker 1: just I don't know. We just hit it off. And

69
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: of course I'm so thrilled for her success on V

70
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 1: because I think the show is brilliant and she is

71
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,920
Speaker 1: brilliant in it, and she was nice enough to let

72
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 1: us give her a call at her house in l A. Hi, Julia,

73
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,840
Speaker 1: Louis Dreyfus, Hi, Katie Kurt. It's very exciting to have

74
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 1: you joined our podcast. And by the way, it's because

75
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,559
Speaker 1: we're in my house. It's possible things are gonna happen

76
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: while we're talking. That's okay. Like my teenager is still

77
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: sleep upstairs, and so he may come down and ask

78
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: for breakfast. Okay, this is a good time to teach

79
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: him how to boil an egg exactly. This is Brian Goldsmith,

80
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: who's a huge fan of yours I am and a

81
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,600
Speaker 1: huge fan of the show. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

82
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 1: So welcome to our little podcast. Well, thanks for having

83
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: me on your little podcasts. You listen to podcasts, I do. Yeah,

84
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 1: I I think they're amazing actually, and I listened to

85
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,840
Speaker 1: them when I have a long drive or on a plane.

86
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 1: What's your favorite podcast? Well, I'm a big Iro Glass

87
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 1: and uh, this American Life fan. That's sort of what

88
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,599
Speaker 1: I usually go to. And then the like the Moth

89
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: Series and stuff like that. Yeah, well there's so many.

90
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, there's so much material out

91
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 1: there that's actually really worthy. I don't know how people

92
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,280
Speaker 1: ingest all the incoming good quality stuff, right, no kidding,

93
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean between podcasts and all the good television that's

94
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,919
Speaker 1: out there on on cave boy, I don't know. I

95
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 1: guess we should never get out of bed. I think

96
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,000
Speaker 1: you're right. That's how I feel sometime, honestly. But talking

97
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,840
Speaker 1: about good television, we have to talk about Viev. I mean, listen,

98
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,280
Speaker 1: it is so hilarious, Julia, and I know the creator left,

99
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: and you were very insistent that you wanted to keep

100
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,719
Speaker 1: the show going. I feel like it's better than ever. Thanks.

101
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,159
Speaker 1: That's so nice of you to say, And apparently you're

102
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 1: extremely involved in every bit of it, the writing, and

103
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 1: when you shoot a scene, you say, why don't we

104
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 1: do it this way or that way? In other words,

105
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 1: you're a control freak in the best possible way. Yes,

106
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 1: I think that's why you and I like each other.

107
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: I think you're right, But I mean, obviously I think

108
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 1: you're having still having a fantastic time. And the C word,

109
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 1: I think was one of my favorite episodes ever. Oh really,

110
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: Oh you know what my husband directed that? I know

111
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 1: he did, which made me like it even more. Isn't

112
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,359
Speaker 1: that funny that that's the episode he directed? Well, I

113
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 1: think everybody was talking about it and people just loved

114
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: it so much. And when you look ahead, I mean,

115
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: have have you started shooting for next season? We have

116
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,599
Speaker 1: started writing for next season, but not shooting yet. And

117
00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 1: so where do you you know, how do you figure

118
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: out where going to take the show? Because I think

119
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 1: a lot of people worried when she became president it

120
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 1: was going to lose its edge because so much of

121
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 1: the comedy was based on her being a second banana,

122
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 1: and yet it got funnier and funnier. And and have

123
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: can you give us, without a spoiler alert, any indication

124
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 1: of how the show is going to move forward? Well? Yeah,

125
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 1: I can, in in broad terms, I mean I can

126
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: say that Selina Meyer is a political animal, I mean

127
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: fundamentally in her core and so that's not going anywhere.

128
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,679
Speaker 1: And um, and she was present for a very short

129
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 1: period of time, and you can even make the argument

130
00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 1: that she wasn't even quite elected, you know, and so um,

131
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 1: it's very important to her. A top priority for her

132
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: is to remain relevant. Relevancy is the name of the game.

133
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 1: So um, you know, you haven't seen the last of her,

134
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: let's just put it that way. And and I think

135
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: that's you know, this woman is always trying to get

136
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: uphill and uh, and that will remain in place because

137
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: even when she was president, she was campaigning to try

138
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: to stay president, and in fact campaigning to get elected

139
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 1: president because she wasn't. She sort of fell into it

140
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 1: the first go round. You know, it's remarkable to me

141
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: how many people I know in politics who say that

142
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: VEEP is actually the most accurate depiction of what real

143
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: life in elected office is actually like, not House of Cards,

144
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 1: not the West Wing. But Veep does that thrill you

145
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,520
Speaker 1: or scare you or some combination of the two. I

146
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,720
Speaker 1: guess it's a sort of a cocktail of the two,

147
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: but more thrilled me than anything else, because I feel

148
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 1: as if we've worked very hard. I mean, we've worked

149
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 1: really hard to keep to make a show funny first

150
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: and foremost, but we've also worked really hard to keep

151
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 1: it plausible. So so much of the behavior and storylines

152
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 1: goes through sort of a sieve in which we say, Okay,

153
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 1: is this plausible? Would this happen? Can this happen? Is

154
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 1: this too broad? Is it just the right of small? Um?

155
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: You know? And so I I'm I'm thrilled at that,

156
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,839
Speaker 1: and I do believe you know, I know it may

157
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: seem as if I'm very cynical about politics and so on,

158
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,959
Speaker 1: it actually has, in a weird way, kind of um

159
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,960
Speaker 1: made me have even more respect for those people in

160
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: politics who I think have remained true to their core

161
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,439
Speaker 1: and who haven't sort of an an elevated sense of

162
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: of and correctly so, of of doing the right thing

163
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: and and and sort of following an idea as opposed

164
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 1: to just um, a single person or an ego and

165
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,960
Speaker 1: and and those people exist and so um, and I've

166
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: had the good fortune to run into them. And of

167
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,040
Speaker 1: course there are plenty of people in politics who don't

168
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: fall into that category, but I think there are plenty

169
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,360
Speaker 1: who do. So I'm not. I'm not undone by the

170
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: the reality of the show. You have real political or

171
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 1: form of political prose who contribute to the show. You

172
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 1: have also great journalists like Frank Rich who you know,

173
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,679
Speaker 1: had a great proximity to power and wrote about it

174
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 1: through the years. Um. I can't help but wonder how

175
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,480
Speaker 1: the juxtaposition of the Trump campaign and the craziest campaign season.

176
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: I think that you and I and most people can

177
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,440
Speaker 1: remember how that is kind of playing out in terms

178
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,320
Speaker 1: of how VEEP is developing as well. Can you talk

179
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: about that a little bit, Julia, Yeah, Well, I'll tell

180
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 1: you something. What's going on in the Trump campaign. I

181
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 1: am telling you if you were to take the actual

182
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,679
Speaker 1: his language, his his the sentences that he speaks and

183
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,240
Speaker 1: put them down on paper, or there's certain reality the

184
00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 1: realities that occurred at the Republican Convention, I e. Uh,

185
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: Milania Trump plagiarizing the speech um, either wittingly or unwittingly whatever.

186
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: But it's a fact. Uh, it's too broad for our show.

187
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,320
Speaker 1: Real life is crazier than it's too big. I'm telling you,

188
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 1: if they had said that, I would have said, no, guys,

189
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 1: we're not going to do this. Is this is ah,

190
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 1: this is broad. This is like a cartoon when you

191
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 1: come up with stuff like that slogan continuity with change,

192
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: which is sort of a parody of a political consult

193
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 1: of a slogan, And it turns out the Prime Minister

194
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 1: of Australia basically copied it. His was continuity and change. Yeah,

195
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,320
Speaker 1: so he changed the uh what is that conjunction or whatever?

196
00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 1: And then he got a lot of shipped for it,

197
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 1: and then I guess he made it. He made he

198
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: changed it again. But isn't that remarkable? That's one of

199
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 1: my favorite UM moments, Julia. I mean, what do you

200
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: think of this whole Trump campaign when you see it

201
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: just as an American citizen? And who on the show

202
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 1: is most like Donald Trump? You think, um on the show?

203
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: I guess the person who's the most like Donald Trump

204
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 1: on our show is Jonah Ryan, only because played by

205
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 1: the wonderful Tim Simmons, only because he's completely um ill

206
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: suited for the job of congressman and um and unfit

207
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 1: is the word of choice these days, and and potentially

208
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,640
Speaker 1: mentally unstable all in one. So I would say that

209
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,319
Speaker 1: Jonah Ryan is as close as we can get to Trump.

210
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 1: But he certainly wasn't fashioned after Trump? Are you being

211
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: inspired by some of the things you're watching on the

212
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 1: campaign trail? And I don't mean inspired as a person,

213
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean inspired as a writer and someone in the

214
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 1: field of comedy. Well, I mean yes and no. I

215
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 1: mean the show obviously isn't a parody. And we've created

216
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 1: this alternate universe on our show so that parties aren't

217
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 1: aren't defined. Uh. And that's really been an advantage, particularly nowadays,

218
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: when everything is so seemingly polarized. Um, I think it

219
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,560
Speaker 1: gives us the opportunity to have sort of everybody can

220
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 1: join in on the fun. I mean. The truth is

221
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 1: is that when we meet with insiders uh and politicians

222
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: and so on in d C, no matter what side

223
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,800
Speaker 1: of the aisle they're on, they think we're making fun

224
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 1: of the other side. That's convenient. Yeah, it's very convenient.

225
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:31,319
Speaker 1: So um, I mean, yeah, sure, we're all uh keenly

226
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 1: involved and watching, of course as all I would think

227
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: I would hope most American citizens are, but also as

228
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: comedy writers and as and given the fact that the

229
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: show is political, but our goal is not to sort

230
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 1: of scoop that stuff up and and and we never

231
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 1: have sort of put it directly into a show. Um,

232
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,440
Speaker 1: although it seems to things seem to sort of parallel

233
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 1: a lot in a weird way, almost by coincidence, as

234
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 1: in the continuity uh, continuity with change slogan. Let's talk

235
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 1: about your sort of political leans. I know you had

236
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 1: your supporting Hillary Clinton. Um, and I'm curious about how

237
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 1: you feel she's being portrayed out there in the world,

238
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: and if you feel that she's being portrayed fairly, because

239
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: there is you know, I'm sure you've talked a lot

240
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 1: about sexes and both professionally, politically, etcetera. And do you

241
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 1: think that's entering into the conversation even in a subtle way.

242
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 1: I think it's in the conversation. And we don't even

243
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: know it. For instance, we're talking about it right now,

244
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: right and um, we wouldn't be talking about it if

245
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't an issue. Um, there is, there's no avoiding it.

246
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's an extraordinary achievement that she's

247
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 1: a first female candidate for for president dominated Canada, I

248
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 1: should say. And and at the same time, she is

249
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: being seen through a lens as such. Um. And you

250
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 1: know people talk about those pants suits and people talk about, uh, well, look,

251
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: let's put it this way, a man who is I've

252
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 1: said this before, but a man who is decisive and stern,

253
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 1: uh is. I would say Garners a certain amount of respect,

254
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,360
Speaker 1: but I can't say that's the same necessarily for a woman.

255
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: And I really think that's all you need to know.

256
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: And you play the first female president on your show,

257
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: how do you think about portraying that character You're trying

258
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,760
Speaker 1: to send a message in any way about now, I'm

259
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: trying to be funny period, I'm not on a soapbox

260
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 1: on this show. Having said that, though we're making fun

261
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 1: of this reality, I mean, there has been more than

262
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: more than one occasion in which uh A Meyer has

263
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 1: said things like I don't want to identify myself as

264
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 1: a woman because people don't like women, and as a woman,

265
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 1: you know that, and I know that we don't like women.

266
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm completely botching what the line was,

267
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: but we've said a variation on that line multiple times

268
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: throughout the seasons, and the word lady balls has used

269
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 1: many times on the show. Yeah, lady balls for sure.

270
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 1: I was asking Brian about, gee, does the show really

271
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of take on sexism? Uh, in a in a

272
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 1: in a in a significant way, and we were scratching

273
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 1: our heads and saying, not so much. It seems to

274
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: be somewhat gender neutral in terms of the comedy that's

275
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 1: part and parcel of the show. Would you agree with

276
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 1: that except for those some exceptions, I think we do

277
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: take it on. But I think we take it on.

278
00:16:54,240 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 1: It's it's um, it's between the lines, um, And I

279
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 1: think the very concept of the show takes it on.

280
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: Now we should say there are a lot of female

281
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: conservatives who are not supporting Hillary, having nothing to do

282
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 1: with sexism, but because they fundamentally disagree with her. Oh listen,

283
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm not even suggesting that people aren't supporting her only

284
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: because she's a woman. For those who aren't supporting her,

285
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that people, Um,

286
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 1: it's a different kind of judgment period, That's what I think. Right.

287
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: In fact, she said as much talked about sort of

288
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 1: Hillary standards, right, and think she's been very open about that.

289
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 1: And and do you feel like that exists obviously for

290
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 1: women in Hollywood still, there's been so much discussion in

291
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: recent years about the dearth of great roles. You did

292
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,400
Speaker 1: a very funny skit with Tina Fey and Patricia Arquette

293
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 1: and Amy Schumer comes up as your last effable Day,

294
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,159
Speaker 1: And and I think that was also about agents not

295
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: allowed to swear on your podcast. Well, I don't know.

296
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 1: You did say it the other day, and that got

297
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,680
Speaker 1: a lot of attention on social media. It did, did it? Really?

298
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: So if I correct you and say it's called the

299
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:17,920
Speaker 1: Last fuckuble Day, maybe it'll get more bucket. Anyway, what

300
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: was the question? The question was about the video? Oh, yes, yeah,

301
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: And I was just gonna say, um, is it still

302
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 1: very frustrating to be a woman in Hollywood? Sure? I know,

303
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,360
Speaker 1: is that's a stupid question. I know that's it sounds stupid.

304
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: But I feel like things are starting to change a

305
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 1: little bit, or are they not. I don't know, It

306
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: really depends. I mean, no, no, I mean I guess

307
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,199
Speaker 1: they are, just because we're sort of talking about it.

308
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: And and I think there's certainly been um more movement

309
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 1: in the world of television and cable, movement in the

310
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,879
Speaker 1: right direction for more gender equality and also versification. I

311
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: would say, but um, certainly not in film. I don't think.

312
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case. In film, and it's

313
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 1: definitely harder to age in in show business as a

314
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 1: woman than it is for a man. But I would

315
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 1: say that there's a there's plenty, plenty room for improvement. Yeah,

316
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: how can we change that? You know, as somebody who's

317
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: about to turn sixty? Uh, that would be me, not you.

318
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 1: I think about it. Will it ever change? Because it

319
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: seems to me the preferred age of actors or newscasters

320
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: even or is in their thirties and forties, right, So

321
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: how do you change that? By continuing to work and

322
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: setting an example, you know, and uh and having some

323
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 1: ladyballs because um, as much as as as you can

324
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: or feels appropriate. I mean, I executive produce my show

325
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: and I uh call a lot of the shots and um,

326
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: but that hasn't always been the case, and I'm glad

327
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: it is now. And I try to hire as many

328
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 1: capable women as as we can and and uh, but

329
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: it's not easy there. I mean, it took a long

330
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: time for me to get into this position, and uh,

331
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,479
Speaker 1: I've had to work hard to get to this moment.

332
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: But maybe I'm happy to be here. I was going

333
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: to say maybe because of you, though it will be

334
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: easier for the women who are coming after you. And yeah,

335
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: I feel that for me too. Yeah, you know that

336
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: I had to put up with so much BS when

337
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: I anchored the CBS Evening News that I feel like

338
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: the women behind me don't have to deal with quite

339
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: as much. I mean, there's still a certain amount of

340
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: it that they're going to have to tolerate, but it

341
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: just sort of gets easier. The less novel it is,

342
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: the easier it becomes. Yeah, I think that's exactly right,

343
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: the less novel. And uh, you know, assuming that Hillary

344
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: gets elected. You know, think if you're a little kid

345
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: right now, think if you're ten or twelve years old

346
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 1: and the first president in your memories that is an

347
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: African American man, and the next president is is a

348
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: a female. I mean, I think how that changes your

349
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: point of view on life generally. Um, I think it's enormous.

350
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: We should talk about for a second your own relationship

351
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 1: with Hillary Clinton, because she sent you a note in

352
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: early Can you tell that story? I can. Well. Um,

353
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: it turns out that when we we shot Veep in Baltimore,

354
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: Maryland for the first four years, and um, someone who

355
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: was in our makeup department also did the makeup for

356
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. And this was back when she was Secretary

357
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: State and so uh for Christmas. Uh, the hair make

358
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 1: folks who are all good friends of mine gave to

359
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: me a buck slip that's a secretary stayed on it

360
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: and it's from Hillary Clinton and hold on him in

361
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: my office. I'm gonna get it. And it says, uh, Julia,

362
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 1: you're a great VEEP. Hope you can get gun control,

363
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: immigration reform, and job creation this season. All the best

364
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: Hillary Rodham Clinton. And this was in January of two thirteen,

365
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: so you can imagine how thrilled I was to get

366
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: this was such just amazing and you thought, wow, this

367
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: show is really breaking through, Yes, exactly, And so I

368
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: had it framed and loved it. And then her emails

369
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: came out and uh, and a bunch of them, you know,

370
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: we're put out there for public record or whatever the

371
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: word is. And somebody tweeted to me, did you see this,

372
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: which I had not because I really not interested in

373
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: really for emails and uh, and the email is from

374
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: Hillary to somebody who worked for her, saying, a friend

375
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 1: wants me to sign something for Julia. Lewis drce Dryfe

376
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: is for VEEP any ideas Lewis by the way, it

377
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: is spelled l e w. I s that's not how

378
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: I spelled my last name. So she's a huge fan

379
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: and and her guy wrote back, let me brainstorm on

380
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: this one, do some research. I confess I haven't seen

381
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: the show, so it was just perfect. And so I

382
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: printed this up and then I reframed this so that

383
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: the buck slip and the email are next to each other,

384
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 1: because it's it's just quintessentially, it's everything about this I

385
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: love to be honest with you, and it's and and

386
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: it's nothing against Hillary at all, but it does speak to, frankly,

387
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: what our show Veep is very much about. And uh

388
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: so it's but I was thrilled to be I mean,

389
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: to have this connection and then to have this buck

390
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: slip from her. It's just crazy, isn't it? When it's

391
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: so funny when you say what our show is really about?

392
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: What would you say your show is really about? It's

393
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: obviously about not not about nothing. It's about Is it

394
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: about sort of the difference between appearances and what people

395
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: what's really going on behind the scenes. Yeah, I guess

396
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: it's about the real huge human behavior in politics as

397
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: opposed to the lofty idea of human behavior in politics.

398
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: And Uh, it's what's behind the curtain. That's what it's about. Well,

399
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: one small thing that the show accomplishes is it is

400
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: it exposes the culture of the body man in Washington,

401
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: which I think a lot of people not in politics

402
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: didn't know about. Um. The Gary character is kind of

403
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: the body man to the to the tenth our Um,

404
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: can you sort of describe for people who haven't seen

405
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: the show what that person does. Well, bodyman is a

406
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: real position. It's a guy or a woman who travels

407
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: to the president and sort of attends to the president

408
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: every moment, so knows the president's schedule or vice president schedule,

409
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: knows where what they need when they want their snack,

410
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: what if they if what kind of snack they would want. Uh,

411
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: they have Kleenex, they have anything is in a bag

412
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: that they carry with them, throat lozenges, throat loenges, Purell, Taan, Pax,

413
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: whatever you need, they've got it and it's in a bag.

414
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: And it's a very very uh I'm going to say

415
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: intimate position. Uh. Doug Band was body man to Clinton

416
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: for many years and rose rose up to to run

417
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: the Clinton foundation. At first glance, I guess you could

418
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: say seemingly me ne old job, but in fact it's

419
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: it's kind of just the opposite. And Tony Hale plays

420
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: my body man on Veep and we have so much

421
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: fun together. You have no idea. He's a great, Katie.

422
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: If you manhim, I have. He is so funny. He's

423
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: kind of he is that guy. He is the great

424
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: And it's funny because we're very close and in a

425
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: strange way, uh like, when we're working together, he's sort

426
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: of that same guy to me in a weird way.

427
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: I mean, not that he follows me around with the bags,

428
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: but there was exactly the levivan, but there's sort of

429
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: an intimacy there that is comfortable in the house to

430
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: say it. Well, you have such an incredible group of

431
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: people on that show, I mean every last one of them.

432
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: It is such a true ensemble. And the people behind

433
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: the scenes, as Katie mentioned earlier, are political pros who

434
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: who have been in these positions. Do they kind of

435
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: go through this script writing process with you and say, well,

436
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: this could happen, this doesn't happen my past. Yes, we

437
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: have these We have these political consultants who work on

438
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: the show from both sides of the aisle, by the way,

439
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: and uh vet our scripts so um, which is fantastic,

440
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,959
Speaker 1: And they go through and say exactly that this isn't plausible.

441
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: You would need more secret service in this scene. Uh,

442
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: there's no way this person would be allowed to enter

443
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: the oval all that kind of stuff. And they've been there,

444
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: They've lived and breathed it, so they know and a

445
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: lot and most of the time, I would say, we

446
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: we follow their advice. Sometimes we don't for the sake

447
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: of comedy or telling of a story, but for the

448
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: most part, we really do because it's important to us

449
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: to make the things seem grounded, you know. I mean,

450
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: but but with this election season, it seems like the

451
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: sky is literally the limit. I mean, you have Scott

452
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: bo standing in front of a sign that says count

453
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: at the Republican National Convention, and he's standing in front

454
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: of the Oh. I mean, that would have been a

455
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: perfect end van for favorite episode. Yes, it would have

456
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: been an ideal ending, and we may have to revisit

457
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: that moment. And then you have Donald Trump being handed

458
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: a purple heart and saying, I've always wanted one of these.

459
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: And this is a lot easier. I mean, can't you

460
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 1: see a character in veep doing something like that? To me,

461
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: that sounds like Selena Meyer, Yeah, exactly, who, by the way,

462
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: is also unfit to be president. Um, but that would

463
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: be something she might say. It's incredibly narcissistic and insensitive

464
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: and and and there's there's zero understanding of the circumstances

465
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: or the realities of a purple heart, but a lot

466
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: like Selena Meyer. When Hillary Clinton tried to get on

467
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: the subway in New York, and that was a brilliant moment. Yeah,

468
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: and I'm just that MetroCard to work. Oh, it's just

469
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: too favy exactly because for those of us who actually

470
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 1: do take the subway, there's a there's a particular rhythm

471
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: with which you have to swipe, and for those people

472
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: who don't take the subway, it's it's kind of hard

473
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: to master on your first go. And it was kind

474
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: of a modern moment, a modern replay of George Herpert

475
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: Walker Bush at the grocery store scanner right where he

476
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out sort of how much melt cost Wright

477
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: being marveled at the at the scanner and its ability

478
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: to detect immediately what sort of food was coming across

479
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: the table, right, Well, I mean, these guys live in

480
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: a bubble. Let's not let's not kid ourselves. Do you

481
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: think we expect too much of our leaders. We want

482
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: them to be in touch and down to earth, and

483
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: we also want them to make these big decisions about

484
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: Warren Peace. Um, yeah, I'm not sure down to earth matters.

485
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: I think intelligence and wisdom is really the name of

486
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: the game. Um, but I don't know how that cells.

487
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: I was going to say, and this in this day

488
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: and age, and you watch what happened with Brexit, it

489
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: seems like anti intellectualism is so profoundly popular now. The

490
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: guy who said don't listen to experts, expert don't know anything. Um,

491
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: it's been very It's been fascinating and also unsettling to

492
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: watch people dismiss anybody with any level of expertise or experience.

493
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Why do you think that's happening? I don't know. But

494
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: it's not a good sign. I mean, it's happened in

495
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: other times in world history, and it's it's never a

496
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: good thing. So UM, striving for UM, I don't know.

497
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. I'm kind of despondent

498
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: about it. Actually, I think, let me just put it

499
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: this way. Let's get out the vote. We got to

500
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: get out the vote. This is what this election is

501
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: all about. If we can get out the vote, I

502
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: think I think Hillary will win and I'm going to

503
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: um work really really hard to help get that in place. Well,

504
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: maybe if she wins, she'll be a guest on the

505
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: next the next veep. What do you think of that? Now,

506
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: that won't work. I love her to death, but she's

507
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: not getting into VIEP and neither as Donald or any

508
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: of these other people. We don't put any real life

509
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: people in our shows. U. We we created this alternate

510
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: universe very very specifically, uh and intentionally so that um

511
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: so we don't have any of that. We don't even

512
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: have real journalists or or anything on our show. We've create.

513
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: We've just completely made another world altogether, which I'm actually

514
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: quite glad about. Otherwise we'd we'd fall into fall into

515
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: areas we wouldn't want to go to. I think communically, well,

516
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: maybe Larry David could be a Bernie Sanders like character. No, Katie, no, okay,

517
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: if he's already done that, that's true. Brilliantly, I might

518
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: add brilliantly. Obviously, I could never work for for a

519
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: show like yours. I just don't have any new ideas. No,

520
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: you're coming, You're you're pitching terrible ideas. But I'm my

521
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: door is open if you want to pitch me other ones,

522
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: I'll listen. I don't think I'm going to give you

523
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: the job. I'm glad at least you're honest. Well, thank

524
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: you for talking with us. This was really It's always

525
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: great to talk to you. And hopefully I'll see you soon.

526
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: Oh I hope so and um, thanks for having me

527
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: on your show. Good luck with it. I'm psyched that

528
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: you've got it. Thanks. Nice to meet you, too, Nice

529
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: to meet you. Brilliant Oh my god, we created a monster,

530
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: fucking monster if by you guys, talk to you. Okay,

531
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: but Brian, that was so fun. I don't know about you,

532
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: but I just love her. You must have a crush

533
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: on her now too, right, I've always had a crush

534
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: until you, Louis Drive when I was getting ready to

535
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: do this interview. By the way, I think I read

536
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: that all the twenty five and twenty six year old

537
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: writers who are working on Seinfeld we're in love with her.

538
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: So you can understand why, of course, but it's also

539
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: great because I think that sometimes things happen on television

540
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: and they get us ready for things happening in real life.

541
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: Whether we're talking about The Huxtables, pre Bill Cosby, Controversy

542
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: PS or other shows. You know, I think you've got

543
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: to see it to be it, and so when you

544
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: see it on television, it normalizes it. We're going to

545
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: talk more about women in politics, but first we're going

546
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: to take a quick break. But after that we'll talk

547
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: with a reporter who's gotten some of the closest access

548
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: possible to Hillary Clinton, New York Magazine writer Rebecca tray Star.

549
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: But first, a word from our sponsors. Thanks so much

550
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: to our sponsors. Now let's get back to the show.

551
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: So we have Rebecca Treyster coming up next, and she's

552
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: covering the real life version of the story on Veep

553
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: of a woman running for president. And when you think

554
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: about it, Selena Meyer is a little bit Hillary and

555
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: a little Donald Trump. She probably has the worst qualities

556
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: of both of them. How lovely and charming, But that's

557
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: what makes the show so good because she's just on

558
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: so many levels intensely unlikable, but This ain't cannot be

559
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: said for Rebecca Tracer. She's so smart, so nice, and

560
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: a great reporter for New York Magazine. She spent a

561
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: lot of time on the campaign trail with Hillary Clinton,

562
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: and she's written a couple of books about women in

563
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: politics and women in society. And the latest is called

564
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: All the Single Ladies, All the Single Ladies, but it's

565
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: only just one, All the Single Yes, I'm so happy

566
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: to have you here. Hi, Rebecca, Hi, I'm happy to

567
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: be here. Before we talk about the great work that

568
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: you've done. Um, tell me a little bit about yourself,

569
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: because you are a generation younger than me. I hate

570
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: to admit, what do you satan so quickly? Rebecca? I

571
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: hate that? But your forty one Tell me about how

572
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: you came to be interested in women's issues and why

573
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: you really wanted to focus on this in your writing

574
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: and your journalism. Well, I never imagined that I would

575
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: focus on it professionally because the era in which I

576
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: came of age. If you came of age in the

577
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: Helen Ready era, I came of age in the deep

578
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: frozen backlash tundra that followed. Right. So I was born

579
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five, you were like in Susan Falut

580
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: I was. I was in Susan Faluti Land, honestly, and

581
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: so and you know, the year I went to college

582
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: was the year that Katie roy Fe's book The Morning After,

583
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: which sort of like you know, attacked the on campus

584
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: anti date rape movement. Um, it was a very profound

585
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: anti feminist moment in which I came of age and

586
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: was a teenager, and it never occurred to me then.

587
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I did go to the two marches in

588
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: Washington two when I was a junior in high school

589
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: around reproductive rights, but somehow that was cut off from

590
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: any sense of a larger women's movement. There just wasn't

591
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: a sense of any kind of feminist cohesion. Um. In

592
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: feminism has never been a cohesive movement. But on the

593
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: other hand, there just wasn't a women's movement and it

594
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: never I actually couldn't have imagined that it would come

595
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: back in the way that it has wonderful ten years.

596
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: It is wonderful. I mean, I'm just waiting now for

597
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: the next wave of backlash. I have to say. It

598
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: is wonderful. Um want want, Yeah, I know, well, it's true,

599
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: it's coming. Prepare everybody gird um. Uh. It was really

600
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: around two thousand three when I took a job writing

601
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: for Salon, which was an internet publication. UM that I

602
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: sort of just took on a flyer as I started

603
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: to write a little bit from a feminist perspective on

604
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: women's issues, and so there was this sort of um

605
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: blossoming of a new generation of feminism. But that didn't

606
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 1: happen until I was really in my mid to late twenties. Um,

607
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: I believe I wrote some pieces about you. I believe

608
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: you did. You should go back and review those pieces

609
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: and I can see if I'm actually happy to have

610
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: you here. I think you would be, I think, um.

611
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: And but then you know, suddenly women in presidential politics

612
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: became a very real reality. So I found myself in

613
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: the in the during the two thousand and eight election

614
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: writing about Hillary Clinton, which was the mother load, so

615
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: to speak, when it came to great material. I'm curious,

616
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: how is it different the coverage of Hillary Clinton from

617
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight to this campaign, because I've been

618
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about that, Rebecca. Because I was anchoring

619
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: the CBS Evening News, I remember being hyper vigilant and

620
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: hyper aware of sexism creeping in to the copy, creeping

621
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: into the pieces, and I was sort of like the

622
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: the safety patrol for feminists at CBS, at least during

623
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: my tenure. And I remember feeling outraged when I don't

624
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: know if you remember that one video clip where they

625
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: strung together all of the really obnoxious comments about Hillary

626
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 1: Clinton about her blouse or about her pants, or about

627
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: her weight, or about her laugh or about this, that

628
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: and the other thing. And I got so incensed, and

629
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: I remember actually saying to her, why does Sarah Palin

630
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: have an action figure and you have a nutcracker? She

631
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: laughed so loud. But do you think it's changed now

632
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 1: with the coverage of this campaign. I don't think it's

633
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: been entirely ameliorated. I think it's I think it is different.

634
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: You know, one of the clips that's very famous from

635
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: two thousand eight is somebody on Fox News saying, she's

636
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: like your ex wife standing outside of probate court. Um,

637
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: somebody to take out the garbage, you know, the hectoring wife.

638
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: It's like we've sharpened. There's a lot less commentary about

639
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: her clothes. In many ways, I think the media has

640
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: sharpened its vocabulary around sexism. I think two was a

641
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: tremendous learning experience for a lot of people in the media,

642
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: where they were like, oh right, those are code words

643
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: for bitch the place you still see it, and people

644
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: just can't help themselves. And I understand why, and we

645
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: can talk about it. It's her voice. We do hear

646
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton screaming into a microphone. A. She's not a

647
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: completely natural order. B. We are simply not used to

648
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: hearing this higher register. That's what I just read. I

649
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: just read a piece about this, saying that she needs

650
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: to speak less from her lungs and more have more

651
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: air in her stomach. And I know about this because

652
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: I had to learn it as well as a broadcaster.

653
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: But after an election where we have had Donald Trump

654
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: and Bernie Sanders like kings of yelling that we all

655
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,959
Speaker 1: are sitting around wondering how we can make Hillary sound

656
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: better at a microphone. So there it's both based in

657
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: a kind of in a reality, which is that we

658
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: that tone doesn't comfort us, right, and we need to

659
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: address that. At the same time that it's like, well,

660
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: men can scream at us or comforter or speak softly

661
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: and warmly like Barack Obama, or slowly or they can

662
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: scream and we can still find them reassuring. It was interesting.

663
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: I think that there's been a reclamation project around her laugh.

664
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: I noticed was that Barack Obama, who in Philadelphia last

665
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: week said was I can't remember what the context was,

666
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: maybe it was in his speech and he was talking

667
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: about her laugh, her big laugh, and she's got this wonderful,

668
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: infectious laugh uh that uh carries quite far. And sometimes

669
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: it'll be surprising because you'll be in the middle and

670
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: there's a joy in a earth that I think sometimes

671
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: Bubba doesn't always see. Because that's one of the features

672
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: of Hillary Clinton that actually people talk about all the

673
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: time is how readily and how loudly she laughs. And

674
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: that's what's been cast as the cackle that you know,

675
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: all of it. But in fact, I think there's been

676
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: a decided project amongst her friends and colleagues to say, wait,

677
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: we gotta recast this laugh, branding the branding the laugh

678
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: as one of the like warm and appealing and you know,

679
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: one of the one of the appealing things about her,

680
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: instead of something that that we're going to only hear

681
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: about his off putting. So but yeah, all of this,

682
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: I mean, the big issue here is, and this is

683
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: part of what's radical, and it was radical with the

684
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: presidency of Barack Obama and will continue to be. It

685
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: is trading in all our models for what presidents look like,

686
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: for what political leadership looks like. And that really does

687
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: mean a national adjustment of our norms. As you say,

688
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: what went through your mind, Rebecca when she came out

689
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and there was this moment where it was

690
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: everyone had to acknowledge this was a new chapter in

691
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: American history. And just two days before that she talked

692
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: about the significance of her candidacy when she was on

693
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: that big jumbo screen. I'm happy for boys and men

694
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: because when any barrier falls in America, it clears the

695
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: way for everyone. In two thousand and eight, it seems

696
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: that she really wanted to deny her gender in many ways,

697
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: directly by the advice, was it pen or Dick Morris,

698
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: what Mark Penn? Yeah, by a lot of people, I mean,

699
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: and that wasn't a crazy piece of advice, given that

700
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: we again have no model for how to run a

701
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: woman successfully for the presidency and um, but it turned

702
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: out to be very bad advice for two eight. Of course,

703
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: we'll never forget that moment in New Hampshire when she

704
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: showed some emotion in that dinner talking about how challenging

705
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: it it was for her to run for president or

706
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: to be criticized or something. Um, And that was completely

707
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: against type and against what she was being advised to do.

708
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: And that was the moment where she seemed to catapult

709
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: higher up, you know, at a higher standing, right, yes, um.

710
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: Part of what was happening in that period in New

711
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: Hampshire was it was the most sexist media coverage that

712
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: she had gotten. She had lost Iowa and it's like

713
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: all of these guys, I'm using guys loosely, but it

714
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: was mostly guys in television media who like had to

715
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: be respectful. Ever for all this time, suddenly she was losing,

716
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: and there was like a dancing on her grave. I mean,

717
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: if you go back and listen to the way that

718
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: for example, Chris Matthews, who I like and respect very much,

719
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: and I you know, I detail this in the book

720
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: that I wrote about it. A lot of people were

721
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: just thrilled that Hillary was not only gonna lose, she

722
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: was gonna lose early, and she was going to be humiliated.

723
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: And there was all of this really premature grave dancing

724
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: in those days between Iowa and New Hampshire and the

725
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: moment that she cried. I mean, at the time, I

726
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: was somebody who was not terrifically sympathetic to Hillary Clinton,

727
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: and I had become so enraged listening to the media

728
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: get excited about her impending doom, and it's it's like

729
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: it had all come into focus for me. It obviously

730
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: made her more vulnerable, and I think powerful women become

731
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: more palatable and more appealing when they show us their vulnerabilities.

732
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: But there's something else about women and crying, which is

733
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: crying for many of us, is the way that we

734
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: expressed that we're incredibly piste off. I mean, I think

735
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: the relationship between showing emotion and anger. And by the way,

736
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: I should also clarify, she didn't cry. There's not a

737
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: single tear that fell from her eyes. She gets stuffy, okay,

738
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: But but there was something about that. I'm not sure

739
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: that it was just that we all, like our sisters,

740
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: weep be right, which was sort of the red of

741
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: the media. I think it was there were a lot

742
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: of women in New Hampshire and they're the voters who

743
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: surprisingly put her over the top. In New Hampshire, and

744
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: she staged a huge surprise win in New Hampshire like

745
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: the next day, and I actually think it was a

746
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: lot of angry women. I sort of see it that

747
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: moment as being more about anger than about like a

748
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: sort of soggy vulnerability. But it is true that the

749
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: moments in two thousand eight when she successfully talked about

750
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: her place in history, and that she was able to

751
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: do so in a way that was compelling and inspiring

752
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: to people, were the moments of loss. So the greatest

753
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: speech she gave in two thousand eight was the concession

754
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: speech about the glass, about the glass ceiling, and about

755
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: for me, I mean the parts of it that about

756
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: shooting fifty women into space, which was an is incredible

757
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: piece of speech writing the fiftie woman to leave this

758
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: Earth is orbiting overhead. If we can blast fifty women

759
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: into space, we will someday launch a woman into the

760
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: White House. And although we weren't able, the shadow that

761
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: highest hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you, it's

762
00:44:52,000 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: got about eighteen million tracks in it, and the light

763
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: is shining through like never before, filling us all with

764
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: the hope and the sure knowledge that the path will

765
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: be a little easier next time. Um. That was a

766
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: beautiful speech, and she really marked her place in history.

767
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: And but that was also a moment where she was

768
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: no longer a threat. We do not like women who

769
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: talk about how great they are, but of course that

770
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: is the job of a politician running for office. And

771
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: one of the things that she was free to do

772
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight when she lost was sort

773
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: of talk about how great she was, or at least

774
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: how historical she was in a way that wasn't threatening

775
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: anymore because she wasn't up for the job. But don't

776
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 1: we dislike when men talk about how great they are too?

777
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: I mean I I get turned off by conceited people

778
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: in general, right well, and then in a political context

779
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be running for office. There of course

780
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: they're out there telling us that they're better than their opponent.

781
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: But that's still disconcerting and hard for us to hear,

782
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: or at least hard for us to feel warmly about

783
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: when it's a woman. And I think it's especially true

784
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: by the way. I think it's going to get easier

785
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: for her now that she's in the general. That was

786
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: especially true when the people she's addressing or people who

787
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: are divided in their loyalties between her and Bernie Sanders

788
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: in this past race, and between her and Barack Obama

789
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight, another person who has good politics.

790
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: I mean, she you're you're dividing your natural base because

791
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: everybody sort of has the same ideas about policy and ideology.

792
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: And you have these two candidates who probably many of

793
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: us felt warmly about in one way or another. And

794
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: it's even harder to hear the woman saying I am

795
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: essentially saying I'm the better candidate for this job than

796
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: that guy. That is still very discomfiting for us. I

797
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: would say this time around, she embraced her gender much

798
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: more enthusiastically. Why well, I think she realized it had

799
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: been a mistake in two thousand eight. I mean, there

800
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: was there are lessons that I think she drew from

801
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: Barack Obama's campaign correctly. Um. He also was very careful

802
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: and had to be in terms of how he talked

803
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: about race. But what he was very successful at was

804
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: making this kind of emotional compact with voters, like we're

805
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: making history together, We're doing this important thing. We can

806
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 1: all feel good about ourselves because we are working towards

807
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: something that is very overdue and a grave injustice in

808
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: the United States, and we're working towards a small correction

809
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: of it that will actually be a big correction of it. Um,

810
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, it's it's not a parallel set of

811
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: strategies around around women's progress in the United States. But

812
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: I think that she took some lesson, which is that

813
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: people want to feel celebratory and good about making history,

814
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: and this is making history. This country has a hard

815
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: time unambivalently celebrating milestones and women's rights. It's very complicated,

816
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: and it's and it's very fraught, and Hillary is walking

817
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: right into that. It's also fraught because of who she

818
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: is and the baggage she brings to the conversation. Absolutely

819
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: she brings. But on the other hand, taking apart who

820
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: Hillary is and who she's become and how she's become

821
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 1: that way, you can't do that with also without looking

822
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: at her as somebody who is formed, um by being

823
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: this rather anomalous woman in an extremely male world. I mean,

824
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: there's which is not to make excuses. That's not the

825
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: same thing as making excuses for the various negative things

826
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: about Hillary Clinton and and there are many of them. Um.

827
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: But it is to say that it's not an accident

828
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: that this is the candidate we got right, we didn't.

829
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: It's not a passive, you know, sort of quirk of

830
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: nature that this is the person who bubbled up to

831
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: be the first woman president. Right to some degree, Hillary

832
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: Clinton was also made by the very history that she

833
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: is now campaigning to change. If that makes any sense,

834
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: it does, it does, and it doesn't because I think

835
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: you have to also consider the Clinton legacy and the

836
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: Clinton baggage in general. It's not just Hillary Clinton. It's

837
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying on one level, but I

838
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: also wonder if there would be the possibility of a

839
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: woman without quite this much baggage, with the kind of

840
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: choices and judgments that had been made in the past,

841
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: to rise to the surface. Sure there will be a

842
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: woman who comes after her who has none of this baggage, right,

843
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: or who has a different set of baggage. But but

844
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: if you look at the history of women in American politics,

845
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: the first women, the first mayors, the first representatives, the

846
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: first governors, um, almost all of them arrived there in

847
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: one way or another via the widows mandate or taking

848
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: over their father's Here, I mean, historically speaking, it was

849
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: practically inevitable that the first female president was probably going

850
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: to have a strong relationship to a male president. In

851
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: in our history, proximity to power has been the closest

852
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: that most women have gotten to power, and therefore the

853
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: first women to actually break through have been the ones

854
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: who started with proximal power and necessary rung on the

855
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: ladder if you will, I mean, I think even if

856
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: she doesn't get elected, h the mark of her political

857
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: legacy is so big, both between two thousand and eight

858
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: and this year, that it is already readjusted. She's helped

859
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: already to readjust our eyes and ears to the idea

860
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: of what somebody could look like on a presidential stage.

861
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: He's not a white guy. I have to ask you

862
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 1: about the white pants suit, because I didn't realize until

863
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: recently how symbolic that was that Geraldine Ferraro wore white.

864
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: For example, and there have been other examples, the Suffragets.

865
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: It was it was the color of the suffragists. These

866
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: suffragists wore white with gold and purple um sashes. So

867
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: that was probably no mistake. Wasn't that she wore a

868
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: white pant suit, which I thought looked really nice. By

869
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: the way, is that wrong for me to say I'm

870
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: all by the way, I should say. We we talked

871
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: earlier about sort of being critical about clothes. I'm on

872
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: the bandwagon for discussing clothes because that's part of the history. Again,

873
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: we've never had a president who wore pant suits, who

874
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, had to worry about cleavage. And in two

875
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: thousand eight, there was an article in the Washington Post

876
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: about Hillary is clevange, but she never really bugged me,

877
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm glad you brought that up, because

878
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: that really annoyed me, the tone and angle of that story.

879
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: I don't mind sort of discussing it because it's something

880
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: that people notice and think about and contemplate. But I

881
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: didn't like. I just don't. I didn't like the way

882
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: the person wrote that piece. That's very fair. The thing

883
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: I would defend is the noting, for example, that she

884
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: wore white when she accepted the nomination. And we can't

885
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: be so uptight that we can't talk about it. I

886
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: just wish men had more interesting garments to sport, because

887
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: they're so boring. There's nothing to really talk about, and

888
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, when I did the CBS Evening News,

889
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people commented on my clothes and my

890
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: hair and my makeup and the way I held my hands,

891
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: and it was you know, there's a fine line of noticing, appreciating,

892
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: even discussing, and having that be the prevalent thing that

893
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: is coming for people, right And the amount of energy

894
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: that you I mean, I imagine that you spent having

895
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 1: even to listen to that stuff compared to your male predecessors,

896
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 1: to your male colleagues. I'm sure that was also true

897
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: on the Today Show. I mean, I'm pretty sure you

898
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 1: think anybody is Do you think anybody discusses what Scott

899
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: Pelley is wearing during an interview? Ever? Ever? But anyway,

900
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: enough about me, Let's talk about Hillary and how she

901
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: was able to just to put a button on this

902
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: clothing conversation neutralize the whole discussion about what she was wearing.

903
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: I read. I mean, it's so interesting to me, Rebucca,

904
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: I just read a whole piece on how pants suit?

905
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: Why are women wearing pants suits and men wearing suits?

906
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: Pant suits? The term started to be used in the

907
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: eighteen sixties, when little boys were shorts with their jackets,

908
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: and there is something slightly demeaning about pants in santalizing rights,

909
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: which is what we That's one of the ways we

910
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: deal with women is we treat them like their children

911
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: if we're going to indulge the clothes thing for more. Second,

912
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: I have to say that my very favorite sartorial period

913
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: for Rillery was when she was Secretary of State. She

914
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: started wearing these big pattern dresses. I thought about it, like,

915
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: I mean, kind of move moves I mean, and it's like,

916
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about that period was that the

917
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: way she was dressing and handling herself, she was so busy,

918
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: and it seemed like she was so powerful and like

919
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: she just didn't give a ship for me. It was

920
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: her at her most sort of beautiful. If I'm going

921
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 1: to evaluate the sartorial choices, but now I think she's

922
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: so busy it's just as easy to have a set

923
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: of pants suits. And she knew that if she wore

924
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 1: a big pattern dress right now on the presidential trail,

925
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: I would never hear the end of it. It would

926
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: be armageddon. So you know, Hillary has very bad numbers

927
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to trustworthiness, no surprise and likability, but

928
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: so does Donald Trump on the likability front. How much

929
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: of the I don't trust her is a proxy for

930
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: good old fashioned sexism in your view, well a lot

931
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: of it. Um. I'm actually in the midst of writing

932
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 1: a piece, um that delves into the history of distrust

933
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: and women and the way that we can talk about

934
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: women is fundamentally unreliable, as deceptive, um, as a way

935
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: of diminishing their potential power of the history and that

936
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. I mean, I I interviewed somebody, so

937
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm writing this piece, and I interviewed a professor

938
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: who said to me for and it was such a

939
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: great point. She said, whenever we talk about our dislike

940
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: for women, so often it comes down to the fact

941
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: that you just can't trust them in a way that

942
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: goes back to the Bible. I mean, this sense that

943
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: women are fundamentally deceptive and duplicitous is an extremely old

944
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: theme with Hillary Clinton. You have somebody if you're just

945
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: going to compare Clinton and Trump on this on this ground, right,

946
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: they're all these like PolitiFact rates, you know, people's truthfulness,

947
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: and if you look at the charts of sort of

948
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: twenty of the most powerful politicians in the country, right now,

949
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: Hillary come is in second, right below Barack Obama and

950
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: just above Bernie Sanders and Jeb Bush. Interestingly as a

951
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: sort of most truthful politician. Jill Abramson, who was another

952
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: female first and she was the former editor of the

953
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: New York Times, wrote a big piece in The Guardian

954
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: about as somebody who had been in charge of all

955
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: these investigations into Hillary Clinton's purported malfeasance. What she found,

956
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: after having reported on it and edited pieces about these

957
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: massive investigations, was that she was a fundamentally honest person. Um.

958
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: And yet these allegations that she's that she's duplicit as

959
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: stick to her. We just can't trust her. There's something

960
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: about her we can't trust. It is irrational based on

961
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: what we actually know. And we can take one story

962
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: like the emails, um, you know, the fact that she

963
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: did her own she set up our own server and

964
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: went around and that can be our evidence, um and

965
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: fair enough, except that Colin Powell also, you know, operated

966
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: in similar ways with regard to the emails there. I mean,

967
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: but in fairness, wasn't the FBI investigation. She didn't say

968
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: I never sent classified information where there was classified information.

969
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: According to COMI on seven of those email changes. I

970
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: mean it's it's not quite. It's not as cut and

971
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: dried as that. And that's why, in many ways, I

972
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: don't know that Hillary Clinton's um dishonesty, which is and

973
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: there are moments of it. I don't know that that

974
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: sets her apart from politicians. Politicians are known to be dishonest,

975
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton is a politician who is sometimes dishonest.

976
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: The way in which it is blown up to be

977
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: the most salient feature of Hillary Clinton, I think flies

978
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: in the face of rationality. Then you look at somebody

979
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: like Donald Trump. Donald Trump delights in lying to us

980
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: every day. He takes pleasure in it. He contradicts the

981
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: thing he said the day before. He tells you something

982
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: that is easily disprovable with like four seconds on Google.

983
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: He it's like he practically enjoys getting away with the stuff.

984
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: And when we talk when when when voters talk positively

985
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: about what they like about Donald Trump, what is it?

986
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: He's a straight talker. He tells it like it is.

987
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: He says the things we're thinking and can't say. Right

988
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: he is. There's something transparent and even though he's disliked,

989
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: you're right. He also has very bad favorability numbers. The

990
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: reason that people one of the reasons people say they

991
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: like him is because there's something just straightforward about him.

992
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's probably gendered in ways that

993
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: are very deep and very complicated. Conversely, what we're seeing

994
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: happen in the Trump campaign is fascinating in terms of

995
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: it's I would say cluelessness about women's issues, as evidenced

996
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: by the comments he has made recently about sexual harassment.

997
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: I would say I got into television when harass was

998
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: two words instead of one. It's a very good line,

999
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: thank you. It always gets a laugh. I also say

1000
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: that gravitas is Latin for testicles. So obviously I come

1001
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: to this from a very unique and probably specific point

1002
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: of view. But I thought watching this conversation about sexual

1003
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: harassment of the workplace has been fascinating because I feel

1004
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: that I have been in a time machine and taken

1005
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: back to a Mad Men episode in terms of the

1006
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: understanding of sexual harassment by Donald Trump, when he says

1007
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: if Ivanka was treated like that, I think she wouldn't

1008
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,959
Speaker 1: put up with it, or she would go get another job,

1009
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: or she right Um and even her brother saying similar

1010
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: things too tough and strong that would never happen to her. So, um,

1011
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: what do you think of those comments? My perspective on

1012
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: them is that they're probably not as clueless as we think.

1013
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,919
Speaker 1: You know, you think they're playing Yeah, well, I think

1014
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: their cluelessness is part of their appeal to the audience.

1015
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: I think that Donald Trump takes a pride in and

1016
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: understands that part of his popularity is based on the

1017
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: fact that his worldview when it comes to gender and

1018
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: race is rooted in a madman or uh that is.

1019
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: I thought at the beginning of his campaign that there

1020
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: would be corrections of this stuff, And the more I

1021
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: see it continue, and you know, these kind of comments

1022
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: grow worse, the more I suspect that this is in

1023
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: fact what he's running on. He's not going to correct

1024
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: it because it's part of what makes his base love him.

1025
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: There was a video published on the New York Times

1026
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: website that that shows unedited comments from Trump supporters, and

1027
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: it is clear that part and they are racist epithets,

1028
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: sexist epithets. And what becomes clear watching at least the

1029
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: enthusiasm at those rallies, which are of course part of

1030
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: what's powering his popularity that there's excitement that there is

1031
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: a guy who would still be clueless about sexual harassment

1032
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: and take a perverse kind of pride in it, who

1033
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: doesn't care about sexual harassment, who does view women and

1034
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 1: black people um as subsidiary populations in some way over

1035
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: whom he exerts a kind of authority. That is part

1036
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: And so I have, yes, maybe clueless, but the expression

1037
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: of his cluelessness I don't think is an error on

1038
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: his part. I think it is part of what he

1039
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,479
Speaker 1: is running on. Sometimes I wonder about the women's vote

1040
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: because I think about the wives and many of these disenfranchised, alienated,

1041
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: working class voters who are perhaps more traditional and live

1042
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: in areas that are less urban. Are we discounting the

1043
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: possibility that in some cases women adapt the political positions

1044
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: of their husbands. No, that's real. Married women vote Republican.

1045
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: So white women vote Republican. So is it too big

1046
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: a stretch to say that women are gonna come out

1047
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: for Hillary and she's going to do super well? Too

1048
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: big a stretch? The populations of women who come out

1049
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: for who are likely, based on past polling data and

1050
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: past elections, to come out for Hillary, are young women,

1051
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: women of color, a single lady. Married women who have

1052
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: just written a book about unmarried women are perhaps one

1053
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: of the more powerful vote blocks in the country, and

1054
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: one of the biggest in they were of the electorate. Um.

1055
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: They by many measures one Barack Obama reelection UM, and

1056
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: they are predicted in it's predicted that of women voters

1057
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: more will be unmarried than married, and they vote very left.

1058
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: They need a new compact with their government. They need

1059
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: a new set of social policies. They need things like

1060
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: paid leave, higher minimum wage, subsidized childcare, equal pay protections,

1061
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that Democrats are promising. Um. Single

1062
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: women are likely to vote for Hillary Clinton, especially over

1063
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, who's like a sexist ogre um, by a

1064
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: huge margin, probably much larger than what we saw in

1065
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: twelve if I were to guess, UM. But married women

1066
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: still tend to vote Republican by a smaller margin. Having

1067
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: said that, has Donald Trump changed that he may There

1068
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who the female distaste for

1069
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: Donald Trump seems really high. UM. And it's hard to

1070
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: know and how we actually see how until we get

1071
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: more polling and until we see how people actually act

1072
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 1: when they go into a voting booth. Um, because I

1073
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: think there are some hardcore female Donald Trump supporters. She's

1074
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, they are angry about some of the same

1075
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: things his male supporters are angry about. And I think

1076
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: that they're being underestimated. Yeah, I mean, I think that

1077
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: they are being underestimated. I think they're going to be

1078
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: very vocal, very loud, And yes, I do think. I

1079
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: certainly think that there's going to be a big percentage

1080
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: of women who vote for Donald Trump. I don't think

1081
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,959
Speaker 1: it probably is going to be as big um as

1082
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: it might have been were it Marco Rubio or Jeb

1083
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: Bush that Hillary Clinton was running against. Let's talk about

1084
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: your time with Hillary Clinton on the trail and bring

1085
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: it full circle. You spent a lot of time with

1086
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,959
Speaker 1: the Clinton campaign. You wrote a piece for New York

1087
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: Magazine all about her. Tell us something about Hillary Clinton

1088
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 1: that we don't know. Well, you know, the thing that

1089
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: I will say, having spent time with her is something

1090
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: that you probably you may not feel it, but you

1091
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: may have also heard it from other people have spent

1092
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: time with her. She's very funny, and she's immensely warm,

1093
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: and she's quite relaxed. And I think that those things

1094
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: are I just heard people putting on their brakes all

1095
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: over America and going what Yes. I was really struck

1096
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: by because for years, as somebody who had written about

1097
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: Hillary and written and read everything that's ever been written

1098
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: about her, um, I knew that there was this split

1099
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: between how people who know her say she is, Oh,

1100
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: she's funny, she has a great sense of humor, she

1101
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: laughs all the time, she loves her friends, versus her

1102
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: public perception, which is like cold, driving, ambitious, calculating, you know,

1103
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: can't communicate with anybody. I knew that there was this dichotomy.

1104
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: And then when I, you know, sort of got in

1105
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: and got to spend time with her, sure enough, I

1106
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: was like, wow, it really is true. But I think

1107
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: the thing that surprised me so I was like, right,

1108
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: she is funny, and she does laugh, and she has

1109
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: a great sense of humor and clearly has a terrifically

1110
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: warm relationship with the people who are who are in

1111
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: her in her circle. The thing that I didn't know

1112
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: was how calm she'd seen. The other thing is that

1113
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: she was so good at the basics of campaigning. We

1114
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: hear all the time about Hillary Clinton is not a

1115
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: natural candidate, and it's true She's not a natural orator,

1116
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: but the sort of handshaking, remembering everybody's name, remembering a detail,

1117
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: Oh I remember when we saw each other, however many

1118
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: days ago, how's your kid doing, how's that? Kind of

1119
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: glad handing retail politics. She was just absolutely smooth and capable,

1120
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: and it was like watching an Olympic athlete. That was

1121
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: also surprising to me. There was nothing awkward or chilly

1122
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: about her one on one or with the people that

1123
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: she was talking to on the trail. Are they going

1124
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: to unleash this? Hillary Clinton? Will she allow herself to

1125
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: be unleash Like Aladdin comes out of that little lamp

1126
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: and suddenly you're going to say, oh my gosh, she's

1127
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: so much different than I thought. I think that they

1128
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: would like to unleash her, but I don't know if

1129
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: it's possible on a large scale. I mean, this is

1130
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: one of the challenges. All this stuff is in one

1131
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: on one campaigning or in small groups. As soon as

1132
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: you put her on a stage in front of a

1133
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: large crowd, it becomes much more difficult. She's capable of it,

1134
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: but it's a much more difficult project. They won't let

1135
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: her talk to enough reporters to press. It's insane. Let

1136
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 1: me talk to her, let me do an interview with her.

1137
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: I've known her since nineteen two. I did her first

1138
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: interview as first lady. I'm like, just let her be herself. Obviously,

1139
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask tough questions, duh. But I think

1140
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: she needs to to show that side of her. And

1141
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: I just don't understand why they're so reticent. I think

1142
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: he has put her in a put her in a

1143
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: venue where it will come out. I have. I have

1144
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: had the same frustrations for many years. I mean it's

1145
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: been many years that I've been asking to talk to

1146
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton in one capass or another, and it took

1147
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: a really long time. Um. I think she has an

1148
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: antipathy toward the press, and I think, though I may

1149
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: understand some of it, she's had. You know, she's had

1150
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: a rough time of it. I always say I hate

1151
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: the press, that I am one, But this is an

1152
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: instance in which I think it would be good for

1153
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: everybody if she could figure out a way to get

1154
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: over it. And I don't. I don't see that happening.

1155
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: And to bring it full circle, how does she are

1156
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: white men of a certain age just a lost cause?

1157
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: At this point, Well, there's certainly not a loss cause

1158
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: in terms of the policies that she's putting forth. I mean,

1159
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: one of the interesting things about the platform and the

1160
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: way she's campaigning is that she's working hard for them,

1161
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: and you know, college educated white men are actually breaking

1162
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 1: for her. I'm talking about working classing class white men.

1163
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: She's having a very hard time with UM, and there

1164
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: are all kinds of arguments about why that might be.

1165
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about her campaign is that

1166
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: while strategically, I think there is an argument that she

1167
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: could sort of cut the losses on that because her base,

1168
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, of voters of color women that that strategically

1169
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: the best move is to turn out the vote in

1170
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: those areas, she is actually choosing to really work hard

1171
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: for the for the working class white vote. I mean,

1172
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: this is she picked Tim Kane, and there are there

1173
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: are a lot of arguments for picking a running mate

1174
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: who would be both more progressive and in many ways

1175
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: appeal to other to other populations, to our constituencies. Um,

1176
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: she picked the white guy, the southern white guy. UM.

1177
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: Talking about raising the minimum wage, infrastructure jobs, green jobs, UM.

1178
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: These are all economic issues that would have a profound

1179
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: impact on America's white working class, whether or not she

1180
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: wins their votes. It is true that she's proposing policy

1181
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: that would hopefully be good for them, but Donald Trump

1182
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: is tapping into a feeling, and those are two very

1183
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: different things. What about Bernie bros. You know, we hear

1184
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 1: and young feminists or young women in general. Um, Madeline

1185
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: Albright got into a lot of trouble when she said

1186
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: her famous line, which I've often quoted, there's a special

1187
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: place in hell for women who help don't help other women.

1188
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: And I think young women felt that was a real affront,

1189
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: saying we're not going to vote for Hillary simply because

1190
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: she is female. Do you think that they've come around?

1191
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: And what about male supporters of Bernie Sanders under the

1192
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: age of thirty, for example, Well, by this I haven't

1193
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: seen the numbers post convention, but at this going into

1194
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: the convention, more former Bernie supporters had said that they

1195
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: were going to vote for Hillary Clinton than Hillary supporters

1196
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: said they were going to vote for Barack Obama going

1197
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: into the two thousand eight conventions. So I don't have

1198
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 1: a tremendous worry um that they're not going to come around.

1199
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: What about women under the age of thirty. You know,

1200
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: there there was this generational divide when it came to

1201
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, at least in the primaries. Uh, what are

1202
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: you hearing from some of them? My impression is that

1203
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: a lot of young women are actually and I've heard

1204
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: from a lot of them who are Bernie supporters, who

1205
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: are going to vote for Hillary Clinton. I think young

1206
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 1: women are going to move to Hillary Clinton fairly quickly.

1207
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: I think many of them already have, and I think

1208
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: some of them actually were excited. Many of many of

1209
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 1: the Bernie supporting young women didn't hate Hillary Clinton. A

1210
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 1: lot of people, and it's it's very natural for young

1211
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: people to lean more left than older people. I mean,

1212
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: that's and that's part of what was being presented by

1213
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: the Bernie Hillary choice is that Bernie the perception was

1214
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: that Bernie had left or politics more radical politics. And

1215
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: I think it's very natural and healthy for young people

1216
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: to prefer radical politics. It's likewise natural and healthy for

1217
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: older people who have seen some of the sausage made

1218
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: to have perhaps a more moderate take on on the approach.

1219
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 1: And so I didn't find that generational divide a sign

1220
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: of like feminisms imminent demise or anything. And I do

1221
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 1: think that a vastly large percentage of all Bernie voters,

1222
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: and especially young women, never felt intense antipathy towards Hillary.

1223
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: Some of them did, some of them did, and some

1224
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: of them may change their minds on that, or may

1225
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: reluctantly vote for her, or may abstain. But and then

1226
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: we'll see how they feel about her if she becomes

1227
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: the president. You know, we'll see how everybody feels power

1228
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: she becomes the president. UM. But I'm not worried that

1229
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 1: young women as a population are going to stay away

1230
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 1: from the polls um in November. I actually think that

1231
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: many people who think they don't care, many people to

1232
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,639
Speaker 1: assume young women don't care about electing a woman president.

1233
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 1: I believe they'll be surprised, this is my guests, by

1234
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: the number of women who wind up turning out to

1235
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 1: vote for her and feel pretty excited about it. Rebecca Trast,

1236
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: it's so fun to talk to you. It was really

1237
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: fun to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks to

1238
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 1: Gretta Cone and the right Reverend John Delor for producing

1239
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: the show. Reverend, I wonder how many shows before you

1240
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: stop doing that. Thanks to Mark Phillips for our theme

1241
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: music and Thank you for listening. If you want to

1242
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: leave us a message, please do so. At let me

1243
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: do this part nine to four, four six, three seven.

1244
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 1: Please subscribe, rate and review the podcast. It helps other

1245
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: listeners to find the show. And we'll talk to you

1246
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: next time. Bye. We adjusted Katie's medicine this morning. It's

1247
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: really the single. It is the single. It is you're

1248
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: doing it like as Liza Vanelli. Where is that Todd

1249
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: the New God? Okay, I'll stop. I'm gonna be reviewing

1250
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: my contract right after this