Speaker 1: It's the season five finale of Real Housewives of Orange
Speaker 1: County and possibly one of Tamar's most gut wrenching moments.
Speaker 1: The party goes on after Tamar tells Simon she wants
Speaker 1: a divorce, Our slave and Gretchen getting married, Our Linz kids,
Speaker 1: out of control. Professional ballroom dancer and host of the
Speaker 1: iHeart podcast Sex Lies and Spray Tans, Cheryl Burke joins
Speaker 1: me to break down this episode. This is Real Housewives
Speaker 1: of Orange County Season five, episode fifteen. Is that all
Speaker 1: there is? Let's go okay? So, how familiar are you
Speaker 1: with the housewives? Are you fluent or you speak the language?
Speaker 1: What do you know?
Speaker 2: Well? I'm pretty I mean, look, I know some of
Speaker 2: them on a personal level because they did Dancing with
Speaker 2: the Stars. But I also, I would say, back in
Speaker 2: my drinking days, I've been sober for five and a
Speaker 2: half years, this would be the show I would watch,
Speaker 2: like come stumbling in and like just recovering. It made
Speaker 2: me feel better about myself.
Speaker 1: So do you remember this era? Because this is we're
Speaker 1: watching Real Houses of Orange Cage season five, episode fifteen,
Speaker 1: You remember it?
Speaker 2: No? I don't remember that because I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: did Tabra, did she just get married again? Like I
Speaker 2: was so confused there for a odd second that I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's season five.
Speaker 1: Well, let me just put this in perspective for people.
Speaker 1: I was only on for three seasons the first time,
Speaker 1: and I was called this like iconic housewife, this whole thing.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because this is five seasons and it
Speaker 1: feels like it's in the Cave era. The way everybody dressed,
Speaker 1: the way they look, this feels like the has to
Speaker 1: be the first season ever.
Speaker 2: So it looks like black and white. Almost like same
Speaker 2: thing with Dancing with the Stars. When you even just
Speaker 2: a YouTube like me and Drew Lachet second season and
Speaker 2: what nineteen sixty five, it's like, literally, wow, so crazy.
Speaker 1: That's funny. And I also do think of the Housewives
Speaker 1: like Dancing with the Stars. People who are on it
Speaker 1: and in that world, not unlike Bachelor Nation, think that
Speaker 1: everybody knows what's going on. I have no idea what's
Speaker 1: going on right now on the back or Dancing with
Speaker 1: the Stars, and you don't know what's going on now
Speaker 1: on the Housewives, But they're so self involved with their
Speaker 1: own sphere that Housewives gets so true stress thinks that
Speaker 1: everybody knows what's going on with them.
Speaker 2: And then with Arianna on this season. You know, it's
Speaker 2: interesting because like, look, if I wasn't if my new job,
Speaker 2: which was podcasting, didn't relate to Dancing with the Stars,
Speaker 2: there's no way in hell I'd be watching same things.
Speaker 2: Oh no, just because I'm still grieving, you know, like
Speaker 2: I'm literally still grieving. It's and and if anything, though,
Speaker 2: this is kind of like meant to be because I'm
Speaker 2: a professional runaway from my feelings number person, So like
Speaker 2: this is actually in a weird way, it's very healing,
Speaker 2: but also, you know traumatic, sometimes.
Speaker 1: You're still grieving from reality TV, you're still deep programming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean also, you know, though it was my
Speaker 2: decision is irrelevant, Like I was saying to Leah Remedi
Speaker 2: who just did my podcast, like it's just been It's
Speaker 2: interesting because I'm literally, I am actually feeling these feelings
Speaker 2: and I have a mic in my mouth.
Speaker 1: Basically, well, you're feeling the feelings. And I think that
Speaker 1: talking about this particular episode will bring up different things.
Speaker 2: Oh it did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it's on reality TV, So all right, so
Speaker 1: I guess we'll get into it. So Tamra, who's not
Speaker 1: an original housewife. She came in seasons later. Oh really, yes,
Speaker 1: she's not from the beginning. Laurie, who was a guest
Speaker 1: on this one, was an original. Gina Kio was only
Speaker 1: on for the first couple of seasons.
Speaker 2: Wait, who was the one they referred to her as
Speaker 2: dancing with the stars? Who was that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Who walked Alexis Billino? She did, she had a one shoulder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny that they that's funny. Good job producers picking
Speaker 1: up one that has a Dancing with the Stars rest or.
Speaker 2: It's a coincidence, you know, you never know, yes.
Speaker 1: But we'll give them the credit. Alexis is not original,
Speaker 1: Vicki's original, Gina's original, Laurie's original. Tamar joined season three,
Speaker 1: and people like Tamra and Sonya don't like that they're
Speaker 1: not OG's. It just bothers them because they feel so
Speaker 1: og and the audience kind of thinks of them as og.
Speaker 2: But so, wait, what is your definition of an og?
Speaker 2: Because like we had this whole debate when I had
Speaker 2: Louis ars podcast. Yeah, very first, not even the second season. No,
Speaker 2: oh shit, then I'm not an og.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have. I mean no, you're right though, No,
Speaker 2: if we're gonna do that like that, then yet, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not no matter if I've done twenty three seasons
Speaker 2: of Dancing with the Stars or not. I guess it does. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess not.
Speaker 1: No, you me hall of fame, but you're not og
Speaker 1: I'm I'm.
Speaker 2: A old person there. Yeah, I'm a.
Speaker 1: Fraud because I was only ever on eight seasons, which
Speaker 1: isn't that much in the grand scheme of this thing
Speaker 1: that people act like. It defines me less.
Speaker 2: Total total got it? But you started first season.
Speaker 1: I started first season and I left after three, which
Speaker 1: is very early if you think about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so Tamor is a new house so act she
Speaker 1: came in like I, you know, may not be the
Speaker 1: youngest housewife, but I'm hottest. She was very into being
Speaker 1: a hot housewife.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah. Her husband triggered the shit out of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and me too, Oh my god. And I like that.
Speaker 1: You know, people wanna get upset when people are super
Speaker 1: confident and they're just like, I'm pretty, I look great.
Speaker 1: I think she needs that, and you come on the
Speaker 1: show some sometimes to get that. And she's obviously in
Speaker 1: a bad marriage. And so I like that she came
Speaker 1: in like, Hi, I'm hot, that's my thing. That's okay.
Speaker 2: So that was it. That was like what you saw.
Speaker 2: That was the first impression of her, basically right, because
Speaker 2: it was like episode five or No. Fifteen or something.
Speaker 1: But I think her tagline was always something about being hot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like it's just a I just it's sort of
Speaker 1: like selfies. I always found it slightly cringe but yet
Speaker 1: confident when women are just like I'm going to be
Speaker 1: the youngest, but I'm the hottest. Like that seems like
Speaker 1: opening the door a disaster.
Speaker 2: Don't think like that, Like I'm not, like I literally
Speaker 2: don't walk in a room like I am the prettiest woman.
Speaker 2: Like no, I don't understand, Like I don't understand that mentality,
Speaker 2: but I love it. Maybe it's because I don't love
Speaker 2: myself enough. I don't know, but like you know, I
Speaker 2: do appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I'm not vain and I am very confident. But I
Speaker 1: don't think of that either. I think that you should
Speaker 1: always want to be the most interesting yes person in
Speaker 1: the room, not the hottest.
Speaker 2: Who can strike up the most interesting conversation, who can
Speaker 2: banter back, who's sarcastic. That's like, for me more interesting.
Speaker 2: Who's an addict? I love me some addicts. I'm one.
Speaker 2: So it's very very interesting, Like the conversations are very interesting.
Speaker 1: I was recently with a group of girls, like thirty
Speaker 1: young women that were gorgeous at this event, and all
Speaker 1: of them were like single and depressed about it. And
Speaker 1: I thought of the fact that most people lead with
Speaker 1: their hotness or want to lead with physical and think
Speaker 1: that that's the solution. But men or you know, partners
Speaker 1: are not attracted to hot They're attracted to energy and confidence,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, someone's owning the room. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a big mistake that young women make. And I
Speaker 1: really instill that in my daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's great. You're a great mom. But you know,
Speaker 2: I wish my you know, it's not like I wish
Speaker 2: my mom did. It's just ballroom dancing, right, You're already
Speaker 2: going there and it's very it is material, but you
Speaker 2: don't put on the glitter and the spray tands until
Speaker 2: you've done the blood, sweat and tears in the rehearsal space.
Speaker 2: So there's like a good balance of like you're not
Speaker 2: even gonna put the lashes on if you're not an
Speaker 2: expert at what you do, so like that's the reward
Speaker 2: in a way. But when it goes back, when you
Speaker 2: go back to what you were saying, it's the women
Speaker 2: that you were saying that they were single and depressed.
Speaker 2: It's because of the fact that they were just not
Speaker 2: enjoying their own company. Like the alone wasn't that they
Speaker 2: weren't okay with being alone. They were just lonely, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and leading with the superficials what you're saying, it's
Speaker 1: not it's the frosting and it's great. It's not the life,
Speaker 1: it's the lifestyle. Like you can have you can make
Speaker 1: a lifestyle out of a life that you can't make
Speaker 1: a life out of a life totally. So all right,
Speaker 1: so we'll talk about later. How many of these couples
Speaker 1: do not exist anymore. It's scary. The rate of breakups
Speaker 1: and divorces is greater and more rapid on the housewives
Speaker 1: than the average, which is like fifty sixty percent. I
Speaker 1: always find it interesting I see this with kids and
Speaker 1: partners on reality TV, where you can't believe they're saying
Speaker 1: these things on camera because they know that it's going
Speaker 1: to air, But I sometimes feel like each partner is
Speaker 1: using the audience, Like sometimes it happens with a therapist.
Speaker 1: You go with your partner to the therapist, and you
Speaker 1: want the therapists to agree with you or like you more,
Speaker 1: take your side. And I feel like Simon is really
Speaker 1: trying to get the audience to hate her, to hate Tamera.
Speaker 2: But can you manipulate I guess you can. Actually you
Speaker 2: probably could manipulate it because what they have on tape
Speaker 2: is what they haven't too well.
Speaker 1: Kids Also, you'll see it happened recently with Garcell where
Speaker 1: the kids sort of said some raw stuff a clip
Speaker 1: of it, and you're like, these kids resent this lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Of course another has, and so they're gonna dig when
Speaker 1: they have to work. And it feels like Simon is emasculated.
Speaker 1: He's obviously not working sheet she let us know. And
Speaker 1: sometimes the lesser financially confident spouse exerts their power. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in this way, the man feels inferior. And a show
Speaker 1: like this, this happened with Nannie and Greg, A show
Speaker 1: like this brings that to light. When now she's getting
Speaker 1: any attention, she's making your own money, And it seems
Speaker 1: like Simon really just does not want her to pop
Speaker 1: out of the whack of mop.
Speaker 2: His fault is that I hate when men say you
Speaker 2: make me. First of all, I can't make you feel
Speaker 2: like anything, and you know that it all starts with you,
Speaker 2: so you're making yourself feel like it. But you could
Speaker 2: change it if you'd like. You could maybe get a job.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got two hands, two legs, two eyes,
Speaker 2: two ears. You know, maybe even if you don't, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, you could still work like you could actually
Speaker 2: work like people who say, I blame you for making
Speaker 2: me feel like I have no gohons you know what?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Something?
Speaker 1: No, you're trig No, you're you're you're you hit you
Speaker 1: hit it, you hit you hit it?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Like, but that's the thing. It's like my therapist.
Speaker 2: And though it took me a while to get it
Speaker 2: through my head, like I would always blame somebody for
Speaker 2: the way I felt, but it's not that they're making
Speaker 2: me feel it. I am being triggered by what they're saying.
Speaker 2: Because if some old past trauma that I haven't dealt with,
Speaker 2: if you think about it, like for example, like something
Speaker 2: I say to you may not affect you, like if
Speaker 2: I said, if I said it to Leah, you know,
Speaker 2: like for example.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Well there was a guy who came on
Speaker 1: here and he said in his relationship, I don't fix you,
Speaker 1: I fixed me about his wife, meaning like you can
Speaker 1: only work on yourself. And it's funny because I had
Speaker 1: an ex through this process who used to say to me,
Speaker 1: I did this show, I'm doing this show for you,
Speaker 1: and what happens if I can't support myself and wanted
Speaker 1: me to sign something in a post up sign something
Speaker 1: that said I would take care of them, and I
Speaker 1: felt very responsible. And when we used to talk about career,
Speaker 1: they used to say, I'm not like you, I'm not
Speaker 1: lucky enough to have found And I was like, whoa.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah. I feel like there's a script for
Speaker 2: a lot of these types of men because they say
Speaker 2: the same thing. It's the same thing I've I've had
Speaker 2: a few.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, the man who's emasculated, it's very different.
Speaker 2: That's not my fault, though, it's it's interesting, it.
Speaker 1: May be your fault because in the sense that you
Speaker 1: can't choose someone who can't support themselves and think that
Speaker 1: that's going to work in a relationship for you.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm a bad picker. Yes, I will definitely take accountability.
Speaker 2: But this is the person who's going to continue acting
Speaker 2: like this? Then is it just a it's a it's
Speaker 2: not like it. Only you can change yourself, right, So
Speaker 2: I think that, look, I shouldn't. I should have seen
Speaker 2: the red flags. Absolutely, but clearly I also learned a
Speaker 2: very valuable lesson recently that I can't buy love. So
Speaker 2: like for me, that was a huge and I had
Speaker 2: I had to go through my past experiences to realize this.
Speaker 2: You know, it was an expensive lesson.
Speaker 1: But I can't buy love, and you also will get
Speaker 1: noisy about it. It will turn you off. We cannot
Speaker 1: think that you're right, It just will turn you off.
Speaker 1: You think it's okay in the beginning because it seems
Speaker 1: it's magical thinking. But let me just say this. You
Speaker 1: can't expect a dog to be a cat.
Speaker 2: Obviously. Yes, I know it sounds so simple. And also
Speaker 2: I have to let go of my control thinking that
Speaker 2: I can. You know, I don't think I think like this. Now.
Speaker 2: It's been a couple of years since I've dated or
Speaker 2: I was married, you know, so it took a couple
Speaker 2: of years for me. I wouldn't. I actually don't know
Speaker 2: because I haven't dated too much to know, But I
Speaker 2: am really trying to rewire my brain so that I
Speaker 2: don't continue to go down that same pattern.
Speaker 1: You know, Yes, I totally know. And it might not
Speaker 1: be as exciting sometimes in a balance it's not as sexy,
Speaker 1: but it's it's more or it's comforting, and it's better
Speaker 1: for their emotional well being exactly. It's what used to
Speaker 1: be good now is great. Like it used to be
Speaker 1: that everything had to be like, you know, fireworks and
Speaker 1: passion and riding one hundred miles an hour, and now
Speaker 1: it's like good, No, yeah, good and solid is great.
Speaker 1: So Slade is an interesting example on this show. I
Speaker 1: have met him and talked to him off the show
Speaker 1: obviously because I'm not on the show. And he's smart,
Speaker 1: he's knowledgeable. And what's ironic is they got so much
Speaker 1: shit and he's still with her. Yeah, they're still together.
Speaker 1: Tamra's not with her guide. I think Lauri is with
Speaker 1: her guy Lynn. I don't know, Alexis isn't with her guy.
Speaker 1: And Slade and Gretchen are still together. And yes, he
Speaker 1: did date several housewives. Maybe that was his circle Ramona
Speaker 1: and Luanne and Sonia have all dated the same people
Speaker 1: because the Upper east Side is like Orange County, so
Speaker 1: it might have just been his circle. But I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that, like it was really up they were
Speaker 1: up against it. And there's still together.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's to honestly get through. How many years
Speaker 2: have they been on the Housewives? Now, like twenty thousand
Speaker 2: years they're still together. That says a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, this is twenty ten, so this had to be
Speaker 1: shot in two thousand and nine. They've been together, still together, right,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. They've been together like almost fifteen years.
Speaker 1: That's what's amazing. It's amazing this town exactly on that town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's wearing a tank top. The next time I see him,
Speaker 1: I'll be talking about that as a big problem.
Speaker 2: But I'm so used to guys wearing nothing like because
Speaker 2: I'm you know, on Dancing with the Stars, it is
Speaker 2: pretty much that like you're either shirtless for men, or
Speaker 2: you've got like someone like Glebes to have chenko walking
Speaker 2: around with his calendar of his of himself modeling underwear.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So it's like, but that's who we are as dancers.
Speaker 1: Honestly, shirtless is better than a tank that looks like
Speaker 1: you're slinging pizzas.
Speaker 2: It depends on what your arms look like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it does. This was two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: so that's when.
Speaker 2: I started Dancing with the stars.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, they've been together seventeen years, am I adding? Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's crazy, all right. So so now Tamar, who I've
Speaker 1: seen since, and she's gone through a lot of different iterations,
Speaker 1: from being very religious to the religion of working out
Speaker 1: and meeting her new husband Eddie, who I give them
Speaker 1: a lot of credit. They've been together for a long time.
Speaker 1: Seeing her, whether she's polarizing or not, which she is.
Speaker 1: She definitely has a light now, she has like a
Speaker 1: fire in her She's dead in this episode, Like she's not.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's like gray, it's like a cloud. I've
Speaker 1: been there where you're like a dead person.
Speaker 2: Well, she's scared of her ex husband. I get it, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not she's not. She can't be her authentic self.
Speaker 2: First of all, I don't know if she knew who
Speaker 2: that was back then, and everything that she does, she's
Speaker 2: getting picked on. Listen, I've had this exact relationship. That's
Speaker 2: why I was triggered, you know. Wow, going back to
Speaker 2: that conversation of being triggered, some people may not be
Speaker 2: triggered by that, but I am because I my pattern
Speaker 2: was of dating very abusive mentally, and in high school
Speaker 2: a few were physical, uh, physically abusive, but this was
Speaker 2: just what felt like home because of the trauma that
Speaker 2: I dealt with when I was a little girl. So
Speaker 2: for me, you know, it was the fireworks. Though it
Speaker 2: wasn't healthy, but I didn't. I couldn't comprehend that I
Speaker 2: thought that this was what it was. Because when you're
Speaker 2: when you see something growing up, or when you've been
Speaker 2: sexually abused like I was when I was a little girl,
Speaker 2: you tend to I'm not going to just be general.
Speaker 2: I'll just speak for myself, but like I tend to
Speaker 2: think that someone controlling me or someone manipulating me definitely
Speaker 2: is love, you know. So I'm really rewiring my brain.
Speaker 1: That's very common for the highs and the lows. The
Speaker 1: roller coaster. The next day, I'm so sorry the presence
Speaker 1: came and soone cheats on you.
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Speaker 1: So, I mean, I've been on reality TV and I've
Speaker 1: been the villain. I've been on both sides it is.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that let's reserve a little bit for
Speaker 1: we don't know what he's going through. But what I'm
Speaker 1: seeing in that closet is he is.
Speaker 2: A dick, Like he's an ass.
Speaker 1: He is a dick who is criticizing everything she's wearing,
Speaker 1: trying to get us to agree with him, or get
Speaker 1: men to agree that white women are sluts who dressed
Speaker 1: inappropriately and he's wearing a purple Paisley shirt.
Speaker 2: In that process, they actually couldn't even look at him.
Speaker 2: I was just I actually I couldn't look that like
Speaker 2: at whatever whatever I was watching. But honestly, what I mean,
Speaker 2: if he's like that in front of the cameras, what
Speaker 2: is he like buying closed doors? That's the who the
Speaker 2: same thing?
Speaker 1: Scary one rat, they're ten thousand. I thought that the
Speaker 1: same god thing got chills. And she says cheers to
Speaker 1: my slutty dress. Now the other thing is.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even that slutty.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that slutty. And they're, you know, in aren't
Speaker 1: country Body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she looks crazy.
Speaker 1: She's forty two. And it's very very dated, and that
Speaker 1: everyone's in a stretch limo. That's just very aren't here,
Speaker 1: It's very dated. But they have this insane argument that
Speaker 1: this is interesting. I think that what I've been saying
Speaker 1: with the reality reckoning and the exploitation of not only
Speaker 1: people but the kids who aren't compensated. And we'll get
Speaker 1: into the kids in the kid's part later, but the
Speaker 1: husbands who aren't compensated, I still.
Speaker 2: Think no husband is compensated. None.
Speaker 1: In Jersey, I think that the husbands are also part
Speaker 1: of the cast. They're very like, they do their own interviews,
Speaker 1: and New York they weren't. So I think it's different
Speaker 1: for different cities and different dynamics. But I do not
Speaker 1: believe that the husbands on this show were compensated. And
Speaker 1: this there is a line and it does get crossed.
Speaker 1: But for me, this limo argument, this closet argument, this
Speaker 1: is exploring a dynamic that we can all relate to.
Speaker 1: It's not exploiting. This to me is the line like
Speaker 1: when I talk about it and people think I want
Speaker 1: to like shuck down reality TV. I think it's great
Speaker 1: if people want to be on reality TV.
Speaker 2: I just think I stand with you, girl, right, I
Speaker 2: stand people to you. I completely stand with you, like
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, people should be explored, not exploited.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, they need to give us a warning at
Speaker 2: least this is going to be a trigger warning, like
Speaker 2: something's got to give, Like we've got to be educated then,
Speaker 2: like something has to happen.
Speaker 1: You know what, You're right, And they should have had
Speaker 1: in between commercials if you're experiencing domessage.
Speaker 2: Up so the number to call, Like it's crazy that
Speaker 2: they don't do that.
Speaker 1: And emotional abuse is they say as damaging as physical,
Speaker 1: which is hard for people to hear. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's true, but let's say.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's worse, sometimes worse. I've had have had it both,
Speaker 2: and it's sometimes worse.
Speaker 1: Right because it's it's a long stematic yeah, systematic, and
Speaker 1: you don't realize it's coming. It's like gaining a quarter
Speaker 1: of a pound every month. You don't see it, and
Speaker 1: then one day you've gained twenty pounds.
Speaker 2: It's like yeah, and so it's a mental It's like,
Speaker 2: I know people over use it, but narcissists, you know,
Speaker 2: being gaslighted, like it's just the whole thing. It's it's
Speaker 2: like it's a manipulation, especially for like they tend to
Speaker 2: go after people who may have anxious attachments, you know,
Speaker 2: which I which I am full of anxious attachment, so
Speaker 2: abandonment issues, who's been abused when she's a little girl,
Speaker 2: Like it's that, it's it's just they tend to.
Speaker 1: Just you are right. And it's funny because so this
Speaker 1: is an example of me saying they're riding right up
Speaker 1: to the line, but as responsible adults that signed releases,
Speaker 1: they're exploring what's going on with their relationship. They're choosing
Speaker 1: to share that. I don't think so people who want
Speaker 1: to go on reality TV. I don't think that it
Speaker 1: should be all like Hallmark Channel. I'm just saying, no,
Speaker 1: you ride up to the line, you don't cross it, right.
Speaker 2: But where is there a fine line of also protection
Speaker 2: like in general, right, Like you would think that especially
Speaker 2: with the cast, like there's no protection, like there's the network. Look,
Speaker 2: I worked for NBC. I took a break from Dancing
Speaker 2: with the Stars, I did a show called I Can
Speaker 2: Do That with like Joe Jonas, Sierra, Nicole Scherzinger or whatever,
Speaker 2: and then working for that network versus ABC was such
Speaker 2: a huge Like I'm not saying that either or protected
Speaker 2: me more or less, but the treatment, like the little things, right,
Speaker 2: like what do you want for lunch?
Speaker 3: Or like.
Speaker 2: You know, we would reshoot things if you didn't look good.
Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, we all have
Speaker 2: the same goal, right, whether it's a dance show, whether
Speaker 2: it's live or not, it's irrelevant, Like we all want
Speaker 2: to make the show look good as a whole. That's
Speaker 2: why we work so hard. And I think that sometimes
Speaker 2: it gets lost in translation a little bit, you know,
Speaker 2: as to like, yeah, are we a producer, Like what
Speaker 2: are we? You know? Like, yeah, we just the second
Speaker 2: just the dancer, which is fine. I totally get it,
Speaker 2: but there is a fine like you can't also ignore us,
Speaker 2: like we're also part of this partnership.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I think that this scene is triggering
Speaker 1: but good to watch. It's a cautionary tale and we're
Speaker 1: having a conversation that I think is important. Now there
Speaker 1: she's now the chor issues are coming out. You go
Speaker 1: fuck yourself, she says to him. And if you are
Speaker 1: working and making money, now when you've said this on TV,
Speaker 1: you are at the brink, Like maybe this is her
Speaker 1: saying I'm going to go on this ride because I
Speaker 1: know I'm getting divorced, so it doesn't matter. Break all
Speaker 1: the glasses in the house, like she has to be
Speaker 1: in this scene knowing this isn't going to work. And
Speaker 1: it's funny that you just use the word gas lighting
Speaker 1: because that word wasn't used back then. And I he
Speaker 1: is the classic case. He resents her. He wants the
Speaker 1: audience to hate her, and he is vying for our
Speaker 1: attention by saying nasty things. And then when they how
Speaker 1: triggering was when they get out of the car, No,
Speaker 1: it's like, no, I love you like I just hit you,
Speaker 1: but I love you.
Speaker 2: Like he grabbed her a couple of times.
Speaker 1: This becomes a foreshadowing because he sides with Gina and
Speaker 1: becomes like friends with Gina, and it becomes a major
Speaker 1: early was trying to No, I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: think he just wants to still be close to this
Speaker 1: situation or you know, it's a small community. These are
Speaker 1: gated communities.
Speaker 2: I did Teddy's and Tamra's podcast, like I would say,
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago now, and she did talk
Speaker 2: this is when I was fresh off my separation, and
Speaker 2: Tama did refer back to this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also think she's spinning out in the
Speaker 1: scene because she's aware that now he's questioned her motherhood
Speaker 1: and who knows, maybe she's not with her kids a
Speaker 1: lot because he's a nightmare and he's hovering over the
Speaker 1: kids a lot of times. Husbands want to overcompensate during
Speaker 1: times of divorce and because they want to seem like
Speaker 1: the super parent and get the kids to like them more.
Speaker 1: It's really a lot. There's a lot of dynamics. But
Speaker 1: whatever it is, she got triggered and does later in
Speaker 1: the years on the show about her as a parent,
Speaker 1: and she ended up having some issues with one of
Speaker 1: her daughters, which is her own business. And that might
Speaker 1: be a line where you are exploiting, we are You're
Speaker 1: going too far to me.
Speaker 2: I'm happy I don't have kids. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 2: happy I don't have kids, but I'm happy I didn't
Speaker 2: have kids. I guess because that is I can only
Speaker 2: imagine how complicated, that is. But I also I wonder
Speaker 2: if she decided to say this all on camera so
Speaker 2: that she held herself accountable for getting to get a divorce.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, because it's like, it's one
Speaker 2: thing when you're not when you're hide egged. Maybe maybe not,
Speaker 2: but then it's one thing to say it and to
Speaker 2: allow it to happen, because now you have to that exactly.
Speaker 1: She told everybody that exactly exactly, so they're out of
Speaker 1: the car, and then he's like he's trying to pretend
Speaker 1: that he cares, but he can't even hold on to
Speaker 1: that long enough to say, where's your ring?
Speaker 2: I know, but I know it so well. I don't
Speaker 2: want to label him a narcissis, but I am basically
Speaker 2: saying there's traits of.
Speaker 1: No, he's really by the way. I know it too.
Speaker 1: I know it too. I had a miscarriage and someone
Speaker 1: said to me, you're a piece of shit after it
Speaker 1: because I knew we were in a bad place in
Speaker 1: our relationship. I didn't like the secret abuse. It's usually
Speaker 1: the abuse is something that is secret. You're very charming
Speaker 1: and captivating at a party with everybody else. Hey, Dan,
Speaker 1: has your golf game at home. Though, it's the comments,
Speaker 1: it's the digs, it's the abuse I totally experienced.
Speaker 2: Or not letting her wear what she wants, or not
Speaker 2: letting her have friends because she was having that. You
Speaker 2: know that that happens.
Speaker 1: Totally and I love you, but get your priorities straight.
Speaker 1: He said, Oh, he took no responsibility for any of it.
Speaker 2: It's all just you just need to act like a wife.
Speaker 2: He said. I'm like, what the hell does that mean?
Speaker 2: What does that mean? What does that mean? That's so triggeric?
Speaker 2: I can't extensions.
Speaker 1: It's and then give me a kiss.
Speaker 2: Ew I was sorry.
Speaker 1: I discribed that was like being violated God.
Speaker 2: And she divorced him. I'm assuming soon after, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of this episode they say they
Speaker 1: filed for divorce and I wrote down that what goes
Speaker 1: on off camera must be out of control.
Speaker 2: And then her friend, if Vicky was was telling her like,
Speaker 2: you've got to stick up for me if your husbands
Speaker 2: in the wrong, and then saying to her as well,
Speaker 2: like you need to be your own woman. And he
Speaker 2: hated that. So that's why they gotten that fight.
Speaker 1: Think, oh, interesting, you're right, and even the way she
Speaker 1: was he had to make a snide calm and he
Speaker 1: was like Vicky's leading Don. Don and Vicky are also divorced.
Speaker 1: They had a whole like renewing of their vows seasons
Speaker 1: before this and renewed their love tank was empty, so
Speaker 1: they filled up their love tank and she works a
Speaker 1: lot that like their love tank was on empty, wasn't
Speaker 1: full of love. And that's the guy Don. But I
Speaker 1: liked on like I like it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. He rubs me the wrong he always did,
Speaker 2: not now, but like he did rub me the wrong way.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: The other one like this A little slightly like this too.
Speaker 2: No, just a little bit like I just wonder if
Speaker 2: he was like an opportunist type.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they probably joined this thing
Speaker 1: together as an opportunity.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, because.
Speaker 1: In the beginning it's kind of like you get paid
Speaker 1: nothing and you both have to be on board.
Speaker 2: And he joined you get paid nothing like zero dollars.
Speaker 1: I got paid hundred fifty dollars and I was after them.
Speaker 1: So the first episode no season what what? Yeah? Legal,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's it has to be legal because it's
Speaker 1: not a workplace. It's not a legal workplace.
Speaker 2: Thousand for how many episodes does that that's.
Speaker 1: I think it was the first twelve, but they probably
Speaker 1: added like several or maybe it was eight and they
Speaker 1: added four.
Speaker 2: It was you know, yeah, total total, seventh total season.
Speaker 1: Contract said, yeah, but that's the Bethany clause. When I
Speaker 1: saw that number, I said, I don't care about that.
Speaker 1: I only care that no one can ever take a
Speaker 1: piece of my business. And that's what the Bethany clause
Speaker 1: is about.
Speaker 2: So that's a real thing.
Speaker 1: Good for you, Yeah, because I crossed that out. So,
Speaker 1: and it's not that every single every single person does
Speaker 1: sign it, but networks aren't really auditing that. But if
Speaker 1: somebody goes and sells their company for one hundred million dollars,
Speaker 1: then they are going to go audit that.
Speaker 2: Then the union, are you.
Speaker 1: No, it's not a union, not union. So and Laurie
Speaker 1: was an og I told you better. She comes in
Speaker 1: with her second husband.
Speaker 2: They do like they're coming out of Dancing of the Stars. Though,
Speaker 2: it's so funny the.
Speaker 1: Ten ten slacked.
Speaker 2: Chanelle gl like tight dance pants, yeah, Cuban heels like
Speaker 2: those heels for men, yes.
Speaker 1: Exactly, Like everyone looks like they're on an episode dancing
Speaker 1: with stars as a dancer, like tuxedo pants. It's the
Speaker 1: worst style, Joe, Like, it's like shiny polish. It's so bad.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy. It's so bad.
Speaker 2: And I mean, if they were dancing, it would look better.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying yeah, because you lean into it.
Speaker 2: They were good dancing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was like a costume They were all wearing
Speaker 1: costumes and it wasn't a costume party.
Speaker 2: And it is back then. That was in two thousand and.
Speaker 1: Six, I know, and like the same Regis is gorgeous
Speaker 1: and it didn't deserve that, Like, you know, they didn't
Speaker 1: deserve it. It looked so beautiful and so polished and
Speaker 1: clean and like waspy, and they just were like what
Speaker 1: they had like grease on them, all of them. They
Speaker 1: all looked so shellacked and chanelled.
Speaker 2: I had a dance studio in Orange County. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I love people, I love the people, but I'm just
Speaker 2: not an Orange you know.
Speaker 1: So Laurie's shit stirring. She just walks up to Gretchen
Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, by the way, I did date him,
Speaker 1: Like what upside is there for that?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: So what you're not even good friends with her. What
Speaker 1: do you give a shit?
Speaker 2: Who's but a producer told her to say this. I listen,
Speaker 2: I took over for Abby Lee Miller for Dance Moms,
Speaker 2: And now that was crazy, like because I I was
Speaker 2: on a reality show. But it's not really. I would
Speaker 2: say it's more a variety show because it's not as
Speaker 2: like it's not live like that, right, like we're not
Speaker 2: using our mouths so much as our bodies, like as
Speaker 2: far as like our rehearsal goes. So the package is
Speaker 2: there's so much happening in that rehearsal time for four days,
Speaker 2: as you know, you did skating with the stars, but
Speaker 2: then they cut it however they want to cut it right,
Speaker 2: and then like when we're live, they don't ask the
Speaker 2: dancers anything and it's just about the reactions that that
Speaker 2: they get and how hard we worked and then the performance.
Speaker 2: So it's like, but on Dance Moms, they were full
Speaker 2: on whispering in my ear what to say the.
Speaker 1: Mom oh wow, this yeah, this happens in the car
Speaker 1: before people get out, or they could pull you aside
Speaker 1: at a party in another room. But it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: remember to talk to Gretcha about the fact that you
Speaker 1: dated a slade, and I would not always like, if
Speaker 1: someone tells men to say something, I'm not necessarily going
Speaker 1: to say it. I did say a lot. I didn't
Speaker 1: mention at all. But this reminded me of when I
Speaker 1: met Paul, when we got started to get serious. You
Speaker 1: know how other women are about a woman who gets
Speaker 1: like a good guy who's smart but looking and wealthy.
Speaker 1: It's like Piranha's blood in the water. And I remember
Speaker 1: this woman that I like and I'm and she didn't
Speaker 1: realize she was saying something about it. She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: do you know anyone like I'm trying to date And
Speaker 1: she said, oh, how are you? I heard you're dating
Speaker 1: you know Paul And she said, oh yeah, I matched
Speaker 1: with him on Riyah. But we just never got to
Speaker 1: get what.
Speaker 2: The ho hell says that this girl? And it's like
Speaker 2: your friend is she.
Speaker 1: Not good friend?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Like, I mean I know I know her better than
Speaker 1: I know you. Now you wouldn't say that to me.
Speaker 2: Hell hell no, Like that is so wrong. That is
Speaker 2: just not etiquette. You don't do that.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: It made me feel like he was like, you'se goods
Speaker 1: and she only matched with him like he was on
Speaker 1: an app. It's how we met. Like I matched with
Speaker 1: people too. If someone said to him, oh, I match
Speaker 1: with Bethany, I just didn't have time to meet her,
Speaker 1: he'd feel lesser.
Speaker 2: Then why say that? I hate when women are like that,
Speaker 2: Like why can't we just all root for each other?
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing. It's just so nasty.
Speaker 1: It's own nasty, and resenting other people is like poison,
Speaker 1: and it does poison. It is you and poisons says it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Laurie doesn't seem that happy either, but I don't
Speaker 1: know her, and I think she's still with her guy.
Speaker 1: And that was just that's also a former house so
Speaker 1: it probably wants to be relevant in this current episode
Speaker 1: and just is like, let me just do some.
Speaker 2: Real ram When you did the show, I left.
Speaker 1: After three seasons when it was just I mean, we
Speaker 1: weren't even making you know, I was probably making one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars seventy one hundred Yeah, over a hundred time.
Speaker 2: You must have left because you weren't happy, right.
Speaker 1: Right, And I wasn't rich outside the housewise, I just
Speaker 1: wasn't happy. I thought I could see the signs earlier
Speaker 1: when you when you what happens is it's a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1: So you don't have people binge then starve, then you
Speaker 1: feel better when that Then you binge and you comfort yourself,
Speaker 1: but then you feel better when you starve. Like it's
Speaker 1: a bad cycle and you forget what it was like.
Speaker 1: If you remembered how bad you felt when you binge,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't do it again. But you do do it again.
Speaker 1: And because it's a bad cycle. That's what reality TV is.
Speaker 1: Whether Tamra or Kyle, or Luan or Erica all want
Speaker 1: to pretend that when Kyle realized her screamed her sister,
Speaker 1: you're an alcoholic, or when Luan got arrested, or when
Speaker 1: Erica had her husband being investigated, all these things, they
Speaker 1: wanted to leave. They've all wanted to leave Lisa vander Pump,
Speaker 1: everyone hated her, Ninni, her husband had cancer. They all
Speaker 1: wanted to leave. But what happens is you've got to
Speaker 1: support yourself. The fame is a drug.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say it's it's addicting like it is.
Speaker 1: And you get rinsed off just enough after a season
Speaker 1: and after it's airing to have a couple of months
Speaker 1: to just relax. You forget and you crave the fame
Speaker 1: again and the relevant because you are the attention. You're
Speaker 1: not as relevant when you're not on it, and when
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 2: On it that relevant. I really hate that word.
Speaker 1: I know, but you're.
Speaker 2: Not so nasty, like, yes, but you are relevant. But
Speaker 2: in this world that like Hollywood and entertainment in the
Speaker 2: reality side, Yes, I.
Speaker 1: Hear you topic currently relevant in the pop culture's sphere.
Speaker 1: And also if you crave just attention on a small scale,
Speaker 1: like someone's putting a microphone on you, someone's talking to you,
Speaker 1: they're coming to your house. I despise having cameras at
Speaker 1: my house, Like that's my one of my biggest problems.
Speaker 2: I did like actually still hey, like it's.
Speaker 1: Funny because it triggered me. The other day I had
Speaker 1: a camera crew here for a very elevated show. Like
Speaker 1: lately I've been doing New York Magazine and Vanity Fair
Speaker 1: Nightline and like Chris Wallace and c and then like
Speaker 1: real stuff. And it doesn't matter who it is. When
Speaker 1: a camera's in my space and there are producers, I
Speaker 1: feel violated and it brings me right back to them,
Speaker 1: just like taping up being in your bathroom. You're in
Speaker 1: your underwear. You want. You know that you're getting paid,
Speaker 1: so they're supposed to be there, but you feel like
Speaker 1: someone is in your purse digging through it.
Speaker 2: No, I think you're right, and then I can just
Speaker 2: add on to that, like it gets me really bitchy.
Speaker 2: I'm and I'm not bitchy, Like I'm very very polite.
Speaker 2: You know, back in the day because of the abuse,
Speaker 2: I couldn't talk in front of the camera, like I've
Speaker 2: gone through some major media training, I guess you could
Speaker 2: say from when I started the show, because it was
Speaker 2: like live media training, like I had to drink. I
Speaker 2: didn't have to, but I did. I had to drink
Speaker 2: before my master interviews because I couldn't say fucking complete sentence.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So to answer your question, was I happy? I
Speaker 1: can have been happy because I left after three years
Speaker 1: and the only thing that got me back was money,
Speaker 1: an unprecedented amount that Bravo was paying per episode. That
Speaker 1: was an offer I couldn't refuse, of course, and then
Speaker 1: each year the money got more and so I just
Speaker 1: stayed as long as I possibly could without it being
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a head of the entertainment industry, like
Speaker 1: one of a big powerhouse guy that's like top twenty
Speaker 1: most powerful in Hollywood on lists, And he said to me,
Speaker 1: soon it's going to be a situation where like people
Speaker 1: are just thinking, why the hell is she doing this,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't make any sense that you're there, and
Speaker 1: not because I'm better then just because it's really gross.
Speaker 1: My daughter thinks it's embarrassing and trashy. That's what she says.
Speaker 1: And she's not a judgmental kid. Yeah, she's like, it's mom,
Speaker 1: it's embarrassing and it's trashy. Yeah, thirteen, So it's embarrassing
Speaker 1: and it's trashy. You could you could cover it in
Speaker 1: as much frosting as you want.
Speaker 2: I think my team pitched me to do The Housewives,
Speaker 2: and I guess it's meant to be that they weren't
Speaker 2: even like I don't see you see it's hard, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could do that, Like I
Speaker 2: see Lisa, so I know Lisa Renna, I know Lisa
Speaker 2: vander Pump, I know Erica. It just it's a lot
Speaker 2: like I think for me, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: would have any setus. I don't know if it would
Speaker 2: fill me up.
Speaker 1: Listen, it's tempting I see why women.
Speaker 2: Want it, though, way if the money's not good, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, the money at the beginning stages is not. But
Speaker 1: certain people like Teddy really wants to be on. She
Speaker 1: loves to be in that sphere. Yes, Lisa Renna really
Speaker 1: has experienced an awakening because she was really fully immersed
Speaker 1: in the machine and having left, it's you know, changed
Speaker 1: her family and and you can see.
Speaker 2: She still does QVC, right, isn't she still She.
Speaker 1: Doesn't still do QVC And that also is a separate
Speaker 1: bag of difficulty. I've been through that whole machine that's
Speaker 1: been possible. I'd rather do the housewives and.
Speaker 2: I couldn't hit their freaking goals like are you kidd ach?
Speaker 1: But just the feeling and the neon lights and six
Speaker 1: hours of talking, I don't That's not for me. That's
Speaker 1: sole crushing to me. I don't like doing that. And
Speaker 1: they're lovely people. It has nothing to do with that,
Speaker 1: totally not for me. Lynn's daughters at.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's like that's the thing that's another
Speaker 2: trigger warning or don't do it. You shouldn't err that,
Speaker 2: like nowadays you couldn't do that shit.
Speaker 1: I don't think, oh Okay, it's funny that you say that.
Speaker 1: So the daughter's drunk. Now, there's a couple of things
Speaker 1: that you do and don't know. The first thing is
Speaker 1: that the daughter is drunk and we've been told that
Speaker 1: she's seventeen. I agree with you. That's where you've crossed
Speaker 1: the line. Now you're exploiting. Number one, These kids are
Speaker 1: not being paid even for future trust. Number two, what
Speaker 1: you missed is that the parents just got a VICTI
Speaker 1: from their home on camera. God, that's another line. Wait, really,
Speaker 1: that's why they're talking about finances. Yeah, that's a line crossed.
Speaker 1: Tamera and Simon arguing like like a couple does not normal,
Speaker 1: but like couples do. That's to adults. That's exploring exploitation.
Speaker 1: Is a seventeen year old a seventeen year old girls
Speaker 1: drinking and the cameras aren't stopping to intervene and saying
Speaker 1: we cannot be part of this at all.
Speaker 2: They kept going, I was like, okay, okay, it's a liability.
Speaker 1: What about that if that girl drives? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's a liability. It's like seventeen, it's a liability. And
Speaker 1: the crew that's when they should stop. So when they say, now, oh,
Speaker 1: there's no problem with alcohol on sets, despite putting out
Speaker 1: statements that they're changing the whole entire process because of
Speaker 1: the reality reckoning. It's total bullshit and we can't hide
Speaker 1: this episode. There's a young girl who's drunk at a
Speaker 1: party and the cameras keep rolling.
Speaker 2: Wait, so they that's illegal though, so they don't get
Speaker 2: in trouble.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens.
Speaker 2: No production, shit gets shut down, Like that's illegal.
Speaker 1: Production should gets shut down? But like, also what about Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you a couple of stories. So number one,
Speaker 1: both of these girls watch their parents get evicted on television.
Speaker 1: So many other girls, like Dina Manzo's daughter, has talked
Speaker 1: publicly about the fact that she's still traumatized from what
Speaker 1: happened to her on reality TV, so has Ali's Aaron.
Speaker 1: So these two girls watch their parents get evicted on television.
Speaker 1: That's the line crossed. Were wasted and we don't know
Speaker 1: were they not a lot? Did they not get into
Speaker 1: college because of this? And at the end and the
Speaker 1: end credit the outro, it says that she got her license,
Speaker 1: but the dad can't afford to buy her a car.
Speaker 1: That's the line cross too. It's degrading and disgusting.
Speaker 2: That is so, I mean that is messed up in
Speaker 2: your contracts that you sign. I mean, I signed my
Speaker 2: life away. The first contract I signed was like a
Speaker 2: ten year contract, you know. So it's like but still
Speaker 2: there has to be a little tiny claws and fine, right,
Speaker 2: like a small print that says you can't exploit people.
Speaker 1: Right and and like intentionally try to yes ruin their lives,
Speaker 1: ruin their lives like that, A man, these.
Speaker 2: People are not gonna get employed again, are you kidding?
Speaker 2: Like there's no way.
Speaker 1: Like I would hire someone when it said on television
Speaker 1: that they couldn't afford a car and they got evicted
Speaker 1: from their home. Like it's damaging to the husbands, the
Speaker 1: husbands that don't get paid and the kids. It's degrading
Speaker 1: to the whole family. And let me tell you a
Speaker 1: cautionary tale. Laurie, the one who's on the first season House,
Speaker 1: so I have the same thing. Her kids were all exploited.
Speaker 1: Her kids have been in an out of trouble with
Speaker 1: the law, like big time, like arrests, multiple arrests. Full
Speaker 1: rap sheet. These two girls both went into porn. What
Speaker 1: both went into porn. The two sisters, Raquela and Alexa,
Speaker 1: and both of them have been on the porn track,
Speaker 1: and one of them had serious brushes with the law
Speaker 1: and had was awarded a settlement because of a police person,
Speaker 1: a police person assaulting her. It's a whole disaster. And
Speaker 1: that's not what Andy Cohen discusses a Bravo comedy, discusses
Speaker 1: that he just wants to be filled with joy because
Speaker 1: of how this show has just done so many great
Speaker 1: things for so many people. So that's of course a
Speaker 1: touching story that everyone's full of joy. But this woman
Speaker 1: and her kids are you know, have been through the
Speaker 1: ringer and you can't blame the show for everything, but
Speaker 1: I bet it didn't help.
Speaker 2: Well are they still on the show?
Speaker 1: No? This is they were fired? Why after this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were fired after this, and I think the perfect
Speaker 1: people have said that that that they were fired also
Speaker 1: because I don't want.
Speaker 2: To go that's your liability. It's a liability, the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And to your point about.
Speaker 2: On both sides, Yeah, the mom.
Speaker 1: Is certainly not being a parent. She wants to be
Speaker 1: liked by her kids. The father isn't being a parent.
Speaker 1: You could see it right there. Like, oh, well, she'll
Speaker 1: get older. Like you would shut that down, like I
Speaker 1: would shut it down in front of everybody. I would like,
Speaker 1: get over here, we are leaving now. This is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: I apologize to all of you. This is accept Like
Speaker 1: stop the camera.
Speaker 2: I would have been, So why don't they do that?
Speaker 2: Because they're scared to lose their job.
Speaker 1: I just think that that's probably everyone seems to think
Speaker 1: that's the dynamic that they've had as parents. And it's
Speaker 1: funny because, yeah, well you see the daughter saying things
Speaker 1: that children they're really smart when they're young, like even
Speaker 1: thirteen year old.
Speaker 2: You let me tell you.
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying my daughter will say like, mom, can
Speaker 1: we be present right now? Or she'll say to me, yeah,
Speaker 1: she'll say can we be present? Or she'll say no.
Speaker 1: I feel they see things more clearly because they haven't
Speaker 1: been bogged down with language we've all taught them. So
Speaker 1: she'll just say like, I feel like, right now, you're
Speaker 1: probably a little frustrated about something else, but you're taking
Speaker 1: it out on me. Like she'll say something that's evolved.
Speaker 2: She's very do She's not in therapy.
Speaker 1: She is in therapy once once every two weeks, but
Speaker 1: these words aren't his words, and they're kind of they're
Speaker 1: just her own words. And I'm saying, this girl feelings. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this girl seems like she's.
Speaker 2: Gone through trauma. Who knows what happened to her. By
Speaker 2: the way, as a kid, like you know, when I
Speaker 2: got sexually abused, it was when my family, my parents
Speaker 2: or my stepdad and my mom were working, like trying
Speaker 2: to put food on the table. But then you know,
Speaker 2: I was being taken care of. You just never know,
Speaker 2: and then that obviously is a domino effect. Maybe she
Speaker 2: saw things she shouldn't have seen. Maybe you know, we
Speaker 2: just don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, you heard her say I want to go home
Speaker 1: because they you didn't know that they were just evicted.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I just right, yeah, yes, now I understand.
Speaker 2: Oh poor girl.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So she said I want to go home,
Speaker 1: and she's also saying like I missed the old you
Speaker 1: or something to that effect. And to me, that's because
Speaker 1: they're on a show and they have to film because
Speaker 1: the production insists that the kids film, and the kids
Speaker 1: don't get paid, not even in a college or a
Speaker 1: trust fund.
Speaker 2: Imagine how these parents feel, like the guilt and the shame,
Speaker 2: Like maybe they were thinking they were going to get
Speaker 2: a huge payday, and that's why they did this, regardless
Speaker 2: of if they got evicted or not. There was no
Speaker 2: boundaries for them exactly.
Speaker 1: And it still goes on. In many cases. People saw
Speaker 1: the success I had, so they think, let me go
Speaker 1: on there and exploit myself and I'm gonna be on
Speaker 1: the cover of Forbes magazine. And it's not a guarantee
Speaker 1: by any means. No.
Speaker 2: And by the way, when we were on saying, I'm
Speaker 2: not putting me in your thing in your pool. But
Speaker 2: like obviously back in the day before social media, it
Speaker 2: was so different, like it was a different ballgame. It
Speaker 2: just was like I had same thing, Like it's endorsements now,
Speaker 2: Like there's no way, it just doesn't happen, doesn't happen
Speaker 2: as much.
Speaker 1: That's no, because everybody's on the take and everyone's going
Speaker 1: for the same.
Speaker 2: But why hire one person when you can hire ten
Speaker 2: for the same amount of people and you're getting all
Speaker 2: this exposure from all ten of people's social media accounts,
Speaker 2: like it's better for them.
Speaker 1: So true, and Raquel, she says, I want my old
Speaker 1: family back, And that's about the show. That's about the
Speaker 1: shooting oh does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yes, because the shooting makes them change their personality and
Speaker 2: it's not really her mother, right, Or.
Speaker 1: No, because they're all because they're putting up a sod. No,
Speaker 1: because sometimes there'll be a shoot here at my house
Speaker 1: that's not even a big one and it's an hour
Speaker 1: two hours, and my daughter feels a little invaded. She
Speaker 1: feels a little violated. She doesn't love that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like in her house and she feels like a
Speaker 1: it's very rare, but yea. Or we're at an event
Speaker 1: and I can't be present with her at the jingle
Speaker 1: ball because I'm doing all the public stuff and to
Speaker 1: who cares I'm working? And that you don't how does work? Book? Still,
Speaker 1: the point is if all of a sudden, you're like,
Speaker 1: mommy signed on to do this, and now we're all
Speaker 1: doing this, and they're like, we want to get some
Speaker 1: stuff with your kids, and we want to get this,
Speaker 1: and the cameras are leaning in more when you're dealing
Speaker 1: with a real teen problem of teenage drinking, and now
Speaker 1: the cameras are still there, the daughter's crying. She also
Speaker 1: is not stupid. She knows there are cameras. She wants
Speaker 1: her old family back, the family that wasn't living with
Speaker 1: cameras on in their house that she didn't sign up for.
Speaker 1: Is a tween going through teen drama.
Speaker 2: Did you hear her say I didn't know what they
Speaker 2: were doing on the other side of the limo. Our
Speaker 2: limo was so long. It's like, girl, remember, wait, what
Speaker 2: explained she was saying that, Like, I didn't know. I
Speaker 2: guess she goes she'd had no idea her kids were drunk,
Speaker 2: because I guess she says that they were on the
Speaker 2: other side of the limo and that they were pouring
Speaker 2: alcohol and I guess water bottles come on. Like no, now,
Speaker 2: if you're not that present, then you know what, like
Speaker 2: you shouldn't have kids because like you need to be aware.
Speaker 1: No, and that's also not true. Yes, you never know
Speaker 1: if they were like fine, you can have one drink because.
Speaker 2: Maybe they were drinking together. Like listen, I moved to
Speaker 2: Europe when I was thirteen years old. I've said this before.
Speaker 2: I've lost my virginity. A lot is just different for people, right,
Speaker 2: but like, look, regardless you're young, like I wish I
Speaker 2: would have had more of a chaperoneish.
Speaker 1: Well, I was definitely drinking at that age. But I
Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't have wanted to be in that circumstance. I
Speaker 1: couldn't have handled the emotions of all that going on,
Speaker 1: the eviction, the drinking, the parents on TV. It sounds traumatic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was. I was. I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: for my mother to put me in therapy because it
Speaker 2: was really hard for me to translate my feelings into words.
Speaker 2: But like that, it's expensive, it's unattainable.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about your seventeen so challenging, the way
Speaker 1: your body looks, the way you feel, trying to get
Speaker 1: into college. Don't know what you're doing with your life,
Speaker 1: trying to college, keep up airs you didn't go well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if she did either, But you're trying
Speaker 1: to be survive as a teen, and then you get evicted.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows, Then it goes, then it airs six months
Speaker 1: later on television. Everybody in the world knows. And then
Speaker 1: the last thing says that you got your license, but
Speaker 1: your dad, who you're supposed to look up to, couldn't
Speaker 1: afford to buy you a car. Oh so, sad, I
Speaker 1: guarantee they'll hear this episode and have feelings about.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. It's like it's going to be
Speaker 2: there forever now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm glad they're but they're probably feeling seen
Speaker 1: by us because most people don't think about this or talking.
Speaker 2: And also I have compassion and empathy for their hustle
Speaker 2: in a way, like honestly, like they're probably traumatized, Like
Speaker 2: how are they going to make, you know, being evicted?
Speaker 2: I can't even. I can't. Also, I don't necessarily agree
Speaker 2: with porn, but like, look, there are other ways. But
Speaker 2: I am a hustler. Look, I used to dance on
Speaker 2: the streets with my parents. My mom would ground me
Speaker 2: because I didn't get enough. My grades weren't high enough.
Speaker 2: I was not necessarily book smart, a street smart. But
Speaker 2: I made like two thousand dollars in my Adida's Rippleways,
Speaker 2: dance my ass off at Union Square. I'm from San Francisco,
Speaker 2: so it's like, you know, I gotta do what you
Speaker 2: gotta fucking do.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, I would one hundred percent strip, yeah, like
Speaker 1: Nini did to support my daughter, one hundred percent. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: But I would find it way more degrading to be
Speaker 1: evicted than to be in porn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, Gina seems to be doing a good job
Speaker 1: with her daughter. Her daughter, Kara was lovely. She's the
Speaker 1: one who walked up at the end and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: really taking care of Raquel, Like I wonder where she
Speaker 1: is now because she was seems well raised and she
Speaker 1: seemed to handle the situation really well.
Speaker 2: How old was she she was older?
Speaker 1: That seems she's like I had my.
Speaker 2: Brother brought a hot, hot friend or something. Was that her?
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe like nineteen or twenty or something? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and even you know, I guess it's I guess it's
Speaker 1: because I'm a mother now and I'm older watching this
Speaker 1: like I was younger and I was so desperate to
Speaker 1: be anything or to do anything. And there's no way
Speaker 1: they say that. The big line is that these people
Speaker 1: signed up for this. There's nobody signed up for what
Speaker 1: I just described.
Speaker 2: No, and and the payday isn't that great anyway, so
Speaker 2: why would they.
Speaker 1: They don't have a payday. The kids don't get paid.
Speaker 2: All right, so no one signed it's not fair to
Speaker 2: say that. I hate when people say that the.
Speaker 1: Kids didn't sign up for anything. No, the kids didn't
Speaker 1: sign up for anything. Even tam Or's son Ryan, who
Speaker 1: he's saying his his his end thing was like she's
Speaker 1: talking about he's really great and he's really doing well
Speaker 1: at this job. Then they at the end have to
Speaker 1: say Ryan lost his job. He's now doing this like
Speaker 1: it's a kid?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 2: Why though, why.
Speaker 1: To make him to make it look like everything we
Speaker 1: said in the show? Yeah, it's just like he's a kid.
Speaker 1: He's he's a child of someone on the show.
Speaker 2: Like again, still do reality TV without exploiting people? I
Speaker 2: really believe it.
Speaker 1: That's what That's exactly what I'm saying. And I that's
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm saying. You can't have signed up.
Speaker 2: For this dance moms and sometimes and I see these
Speaker 2: like a toddlers and tiar it if there's a fine
Speaker 2: line like this is uh. And unfortunately though, it's that
Speaker 2: type of stuff that makes people want to watch. I
Speaker 2: guess I guess the ratings must you know, Spike, But
Speaker 2: at what expense? Right, like literally ruining someone's life.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know who could control all
Speaker 1: of this is the advertisers. The whole thing is run
Speaker 1: by the advertisers and what they'll pay for, so add
Speaker 1: you know, I put the responsibility on the streamers and
Speaker 1: the networks, which it is, but even the bigger power
Speaker 1: than the networks and the streamers is the advertisers. If
Speaker 1: the advertisers say, we're not advertising on something where you
Speaker 1: have an underage girl drinking or you're you know, showing
Speaker 1: physical abuse or something like that, we won't advertise on it.
Speaker 1: So that's going to be the next thing because when
Speaker 1: things happen that people don't like, they go after the advertisers.
Speaker 2: How about streaming there's no commercials, not there's advertisers.
Speaker 1: No streaming, you're right on streaming.
Speaker 2: But there is Disney plus there is right now.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so yeah, it's the you know, the advertisers
Speaker 1: have to wake up and say because then years ago
Speaker 1: it used to be glamorized for people to smoke on TV,
Speaker 1: and everyone thought that was normal. If you start to
Speaker 1: see people ripping each other's hair out and things on TV,
Speaker 1: that may seem cool.
Speaker 2: But how about for talent, isn't that doesn't it start
Speaker 2: with you too? Like I think it's a little right,
Speaker 2: like why would I mean, it's too hard to change
Speaker 2: people like you can't but like as women, people do
Speaker 2: anything for fame though it's really hard. I think it's
Speaker 2: better off what you were saying.
Speaker 1: No, but you're so stressed out. It's such a good
Speaker 1: idea to have a cocktail if it makes you feel calmer,
Speaker 1: and it makes you do stupid things and you feel dehydrated.
Speaker 2: And but if you're sober, that's why they're not hiring wedding.
Speaker 1: No being sober. Yeah, well they hire a few people
Speaker 1: that are sober, but they usually hope that they fall
Speaker 1: off the wagon. Then it's oh, that's horrible.
Speaker 2: No, wait, really that is so that is disgusting. I
Speaker 2: never want to I would never That is so nasty.
Speaker 1: It's not outward. They're not like, hey, Cheryl, thanks for
Speaker 1: joining me.
Speaker 2: No, but obviously they want that. Of course they want that.
Speaker 2: Now it makes sense, But that's disgusting.
Speaker 1: They say it to other people that is horrible. But
Speaker 1: they would often be like, oh my god, don't worry,
Speaker 1: Duranda's gonna get drunk and go crazy, or Luanne's definitely
Speaker 1: going to drink. And Luan did go to the program
Speaker 1: and Leah. That's why Leah has this whole lawsuit because
Speaker 1: she came in sober and it really wasn't something that
Speaker 1: he was she suing for. It's in a Vanity Fair
Speaker 1: article about disability. They violated a disability Act because they
Speaker 1: kind of were really pushing for her to drink. They
Speaker 1: said she was more fun and funny drinking, and she
Speaker 1: did fall off the wagon, which is her responsibility.
Speaker 2: To your point, A, absolutely, so there's a fine line.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: You have to take full responsibility. That's part of the program.
Speaker 2: I mean that is a full accountability. No one makes
Speaker 2: you do anything, and no one makes you feel anything.
Speaker 2: No one makes you pick up a drink either.
Speaker 1: I agree. And the end it says that Gretchen and
Speaker 1: Slade haven't gotten engaged, but he still hasn't gotten his
Speaker 1: best sectomy. So the happy ever ending happily ever after
Speaker 1: me Why because I think Slade has kids from another marriage.
Speaker 1: End Oh, got a best sectomy and he reversed it
Speaker 1: for Gretchen and they now have a baby.
Speaker 2: Hm. I know another couple who reversed so.
Speaker 1: They lived happily ever after.
Speaker 2: They're still together, that's right, and all the housewives are
Speaker 2: just jealous now kidding?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, So anyway, that was a
Speaker 1: rough one. My takeaway is glad the end, I'm glad
Speaker 1: Tamra met her husband Eddie and came out on the side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're still doing great, right, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know about their relationship, but they're still together, just like
Speaker 1: Gretchen and Slade. So the part two marriages on Orange
Speaker 1: County Housewives all seem to be working. Well.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me your Rose and your thorn, my dear
Speaker 1: of this episode.
Speaker 2: Gosh, my Rose would be looking at these, looking at
Speaker 2: like that specific triggering moment with that couple, and first
Speaker 2: of all, just realizing that I am on my way
Speaker 2: towards changing my how I choose men. Because the fact
Speaker 2: that I can just even recognize that in a way,
Speaker 2: it was almost I was like, oh, good on you.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's a positive Reality TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They're sacrificial lambs for you, for.
Speaker 2: You to Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, I just
Speaker 2: like to try and test where I am in my brain,
Speaker 2: Like if I even think that there is something wrong
Speaker 2: or not, then you know, it's always good to know.
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, and you're thorn Oh.
Speaker 2: That same moment.
Speaker 1: No, yes, I could.
Speaker 2: No, it's like under a drinking It's like seeing a camera.
Speaker 2: So I was I can totally relate to my gut.
Speaker 2: That makes me want to actually get emotional because of it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was really hard to watch because I
Speaker 2: was her.
Speaker 1: You know, my name Rose and Thorn. Amazing. Wow.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having you of course, Bye bye