1
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 1: Today on Crime Stories, we head to Utah. My next bleeding,

2
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: I need help quick? What happened? I tried to commit suicide?

3
00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,599
Speaker 1: Please help me? All right? And I just need to

4
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 1: asked a few questions. Okay, what do you still have

5
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 1: the knife with you? No? I threw it out the window.

6
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: How much are you bleeding? Oh well, my shirt is so?

7
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 1: What's your name? Ythany need joining Nancy Grace, New York

8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, Julie Rendelman, John Cardillo, formerly of the NYPD,

9
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, doctor Michelle Duprie, medical examiner and

10
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,480
Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, and Alexis terres Chuck

11
00:00:45,680 --> 00:01:04,560
Speaker 1: from Radar Online Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What is

12
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,400
Speaker 1: the address of your emergency? I'm in front of Davis

13
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,679
Speaker 1: High School? Okay, What's what's going on there? My next bleeding?

14
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,680
Speaker 1: I need help quick? What happened? I tried to commit suicide?

15
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 1: Please help me? All right? And I just need to

16
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 1: ask a few questions. Okay, what? Okay, do you still

17
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,600
Speaker 1: have the knife with you? No? I threw it out

18
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: the window. How much are you bleeding? Oh well, my

19
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: shirt is so? What's your name? Tiffany need Okay, is

20
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 1: anybody with you? Tiffany gel with my husband and my son? Okay?

21
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,199
Speaker 1: Where's your husband? I talked to him? Are you there? Yeah? Okay?

22
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 1: Is he sitting down? Yeah? Do you have a dry

23
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:48,840
Speaker 1: clean cloth that you can apply pressure to her neck? So? Well?

24
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: We need something? Are you applying pressure? Yes? She had

25
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 1: her hand on her throat? Okay. Do you know why

26
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 1: she why she did this? I don't know. And what

27
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,800
Speaker 1: did she use to cut? She said she threw it

28
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 1: out the window? Did she by nice? Okay? Where's the

29
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 1: knife right now? Somewhere down in a bully or something?

30
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 1: Is there an officer? You let me know when an

31
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,519
Speaker 1: officer shows up, Wave your arms and haunts her horn?

32
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: Is she still haunting? Breathing? Okay? Okay? Are they there? Yeah? Okay,

33
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: I'll let you go. Thank you. You are hearing a

34
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 1: nine one one called by a beautiful young mom. Tiffany

35
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 1: Meade as she calls nine one one and says she

36
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: has slashed her own throat in an attempt to commit suicide.

37
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,920
Speaker 1: But the brutal throat slashing of this Utah mom takes

38
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: the investigation into a very very surprising path. I mean,

39
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: I see Grace. This is Crime Stories with me and

40
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 1: I'll star panel Julie Randelman, York criminal defense attorney John Cardillo,

41
00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 1: former NYPD and host of America Talk Live on Newsmax TV,

42
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 1: where now it psychoanalyst out of LA doctor Bethany Marshall,

43
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: South Carolina Medical Examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

44
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree. But right now, to rate oar online

45
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: dot COM's investigative reporter Alexis Terrestcha, Alexis, tell me about

46
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 1: the slash to this young Utah mother's throat. Well, police

47
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,200
Speaker 1: really were very suspicious from the very beginning because this

48
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 1: slash was straight across her throat and it was really deep.

49
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 1: And they knew that when they have seen other people

50
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: that have tried to commit suicide this way or have

51
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: done this to themselves, that would never be so straight,

52
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be so precise, and it would never have

53
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: gone that deep. People can't do that to themselves, They've said,

54
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,720
Speaker 1: so they knew. To doctor Michelle Dupree, South Carolina Medical Examiner,

55
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 1: what Alexis is saying, I don't quite get it explained

56
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 1: to me the significance of the direction, the trajectory and

57
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: the depth of the slash on Tiffany Meads, throw, a

58
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 1: young mom of twenty two, Well, Nancy, she makes it

59
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: an excellent point. If someone is going to slice their

60
00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 1: own throat, depending on whether they're right handed or left handed,

61
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: they will typically, first of all, they'll typically have some

62
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,840
Speaker 1: what we call hesitation marks because this hurts, and there'll

63
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,840
Speaker 1: be some slashes that are very superficial. And then if

64
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,039
Speaker 1: they're very determined, they will actually cut deeper. But when

65
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,799
Speaker 1: we cut, we're not going to cut it at straight across,

66
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 1: as in this case. We're typically going to hold the

67
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 1: knife in a direction where it'll be a little bit

68
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 1: behind the ear, slanting upward and then come across the

69
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 1: neck and then maybe upward again. And again whichever hand

70
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 1: you're holding the knife in that side of the wound

71
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,599
Speaker 1: is going to be much more shallow simply because of

72
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,839
Speaker 1: the way that you have to hold the knife. And

73
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 1: so these are things that would be readily noticeable on

74
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 1: the victim. You know, the way you just rattle that off,

75
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupre with me, Doctor Dupre out of South Carolina,

76
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 1: all or of Homicide Investigation, field Gate. Doctor, could you

77
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: slow that down again? Slow that down? And tell me

78
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,599
Speaker 1: again the significance of what Alexis Torreschuk has just said. Sure,

79
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: when someone is committing suicide with a sharp force instrument

80
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,839
Speaker 1: like a knife, they are either right handed or left handed.

81
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: Typically they will make what we call hesitation marks, which

82
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: is the initial cut, and because it hurts, they'll be

83
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,480
Speaker 1: very superficial, but there'll be a few attempts before they

84
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: actually make a deeper cut and then really do harm

85
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 1: to themselves. In addition, whichever hand they're holding the knife with,

86
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: let's say it's the right. If we take a knife

87
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: or an air knife and slice it across our neck,

88
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,400
Speaker 1: it's typically going to come at an angle near the

89
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 1: ear and then go straight across and then go up again.

90
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 1: As we come to the end of that side of

91
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 1: our neck. The side that we're holding the knife in

92
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,279
Speaker 1: is also going to be less deep. It's going to

93
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,599
Speaker 1: be more shallow because again of the angle of the nine.

94
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,280
Speaker 1: And so when we talk about the injuries that we

95
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: see on Tiffany, they would be against this. They would

96
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,360
Speaker 1: be more lateral, more straight across, indicating that she did

97
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 1: not do this to herself. Doctor Sheila Garvey, the Auto

98
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: Regional Hospital emergency room doctor treated Tiffany and was struck

99
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,799
Speaker 1: by the severity of the wound, noting, as doctor Michelle

100
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,840
Speaker 1: Dupree has that most self inflicted stab wounds are not

101
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: that deep. In fact, she nearly cut off her head. Yes,

102
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,840
Speaker 1: she had sliced suit. I don't even understand how she

103
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,320
Speaker 1: was speaking. Listen. Just before midnight on July twenty third,

104
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Deputy sheriff Jason Sorenson, responding to an attempted suicide,

105
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,839
Speaker 1: found twenty two year old Tiffany Mead in her car.

106
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: It was a really severe wound, was straight across her

107
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 1: neck all the way across in the car seat was

108
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 1: her two year old son. Her husband, Chris Urtman, was

109
00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,279
Speaker 1: pacing the sidewalk. He had no shirt on. I noticed

110
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 1: he had blood all over his hands. By the time

111
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,040
Speaker 1: Lead Detective Bob Thompson arrived, Tiffany had already been rushed

112
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: to the hospital. You were hearing our friend at CBS

113
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: forty eight hours That was Aaron Moriarty. Listen to this. Well,

114
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: she's trying to suicide, and I helped her out, and

115
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 1: her and excited to help her out. I try to

116
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: see her. I assisted in suing her. Okay, when you

117
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 1: see her. Who are you talking about? Tiffany? Tiffany, so

118
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: you had said she wanted to meet up last night,

119
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 1: Tell me about that. I was supposed superior child support,

120
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: so I thought I had my money order for so

121
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: it's gonna meet up and regret there and wasn't there

122
00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 1: And she's a little pistol and told her alone. I

123
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 1: don't know how happe. She has a history of means

124
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: who's suicidal? I mean I love her. I mean I

125
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt her. She is a love mean If I

126
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt her, I wouldn't try to see her life.

127
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,880
Speaker 1: Joining me right now out of la psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall,

128
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: explain to me what doctor Michelle Dupree was describing called

129
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,440
Speaker 1: hesitation marks. Now I understand what she's saying. But what

130
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: do hesitation marks mean psychologically, doctor Bethany Marshall, Because there

131
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 1: were no quote hesitation marks on Tiffany, mead well, with

132
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,440
Speaker 1: any type of suicidality a person unless they're extremely impulsive.

133
00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 1: Well why why why wait right there? What is suicide? Alani,

134
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,679
Speaker 1: I've never even heard that word. Somebody who makes who

135
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: is suicidal? Who wants to harm themselves, who no longer

136
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 1: wants to be on this earth, who wants to or

137
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 1: we say, prematurely terminate their life. They're going to contemplate,

138
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 1: They're going to think, they're going to plan ahead. They're

139
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,240
Speaker 1: not going to be in a car with their children

140
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 1: in the back seat. First of all, just looking at

141
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 1: the behavioral evidence, this young woman was sitting in a car,

142
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,960
Speaker 1: her husband was there, her two young children evidently in

143
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 1: the driver's seat. She had her hand on the steering

144
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 1: wheel when she called nine, one one, So right there,

145
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,920
Speaker 1: in terms of behavior, why would you be there if

146
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,880
Speaker 1: you're going to kill yourself. If you're a young mom,

147
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: you're going to be away from your children and have

148
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 1: your children in the safe place. Secondly, just a part

149
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 1: of our evolutionary biological heritage is that we human beings

150
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 1: want to survive. So we are not going to want

151
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 1: to slit our own throats. That is something that's not

152
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 1: going to be natural type of behavior. So she would

153
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: have had to work up a great deal of courage

154
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 1: to commit this act, which means crying it again and again.

155
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: Similar to somebody who overdoses on pills, they might drink

156
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of vodka and then take some nix or

157
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 1: out of an and then take some more pills, and

158
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 1: then take some more and then finally drift off to sleep.

159
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 1: They're not going to do it all in one cell swoop.

160
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: It's going to take a great deal of determination of courage,

161
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: unless they're impulsive and they just sort of jump off

162
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,640
Speaker 1: a building or something like that. But that's not how

163
00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: women behave when they want to terminate their lives. Crime

164
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. There's the address of your emergency.

165
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm in front of David's High school. Okay, what's going

166
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,440
Speaker 1: on there? My next bleeding? I need quick? What happened?

167
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,840
Speaker 1: I tried to commit suicide? Please help me? All right?

168
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 1: And I just need to ask a few questions. Okay,

169
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 1: what Oh you do you still have the knife with you? No?

170
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 1: I threw it out the window. How much are you bleeding? Oh?

171
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: What my shirt is? So? What's your name? Tiffany? Need? Okay?

172
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,800
Speaker 1: Is anybody with you? Tiffany? Get here? My husband and

173
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 1: my son? Okay, where's your husband? I talked to him?

174
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 1: Are you there? Yeah? Okay? Is he sitting down? Yeah?

175
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 1: Do you have a dry clean cloth you can apply

176
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: pressure to her neck? My shirt? So well, we need something.

177
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 1: Are you applying pressure? Yes, she has her hand on

178
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,680
Speaker 1: her throat? Okay? Do you know why she why she

179
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 1: did this? I don't know. And what did she use

180
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: the cutter? She said she threw it out the window?

181
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 1: Did she by nice? Okay? Where's the knife right now?

182
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 1: Somewhere down or something? Is there an office? You let

183
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: me know when an officer shows up. There were two

184
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:06,839
Speaker 1: of us. Wave your arms and honked your horn. Is

185
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,640
Speaker 1: she still punching her breathing? Okay? Okay? Are they there?

186
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,640
Speaker 1: Thank you? Wow? Once again the nine one one call

187
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,079
Speaker 1: by this young mom Tiffany me to report her throat

188
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: has been slashed, She's bleeding profusely, and she needs help.

189
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the emergency room doctor says

190
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 1: she nearly cut her head off because the gash was

191
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 1: so deep. Quote, she was critical. She just about cut

192
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,199
Speaker 1: off her head. That's part of what the emergency room

193
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 1: doctor said, you know. To alexas Terreshut, investigative reporter Raider

194
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 1: online dot com, I didn't understand her children were in

195
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 1: the car. She tried to commit suicide in her car

196
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 1: with her children there, her youngest son. She hasn't uhoot

197
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: an older son who was four. It was her two

198
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 1: year old baby was in the car at the time. Okay, granted,

199
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, but having studied and assessed

200
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: methods of homicide and suicide for many years, I have

201
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: learned that suicide and homicide as well. But suicide can

202
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 1: be typed geographically. It can be typed more specifically to

203
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 1: your gender, your age, even down to specifics about you,

204
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: and is highly highly unlikely, statistically speaking, that a woman

205
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,080
Speaker 1: will kill herself a in front of her child and

206
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: be by slashing her own throat. That is statistically almost

207
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 1: unheard of. To doctor Michelle Dupree, you've certainly seen your

208
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: fair share of dead bodies, thousands and thousands of them

209
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 1: to be exact weight in your absolutely right, Nanswy. Typically

210
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: women take a much less aggressive method to commit suicide.

211
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: They don't like the mouth, and they certainly wouldn't do

212
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 1: it in front of loved ones. In fact, many times

213
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 1: they will actually leave a note saying please don't let

214
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,199
Speaker 1: my children or my husband see me like this. This

215
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 1: is very unusual that this would be the case, and

216
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,559
Speaker 1: also not only a mess such as a bloody room

217
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 1: or carpet, the self disfigurement is an impulse in women

218
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: that very often we don't see in men, an impulse

219
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: not to do it. Men very often will commit suicide

220
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: by gun, by crashing their cars, just all sorts of

221
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 1: violent and aggressive modes. Women more likely will overdose, We'll

222
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 1: jump out of window poison. That's more typical of how

223
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 1: women commit suicide. You know what I'm noticing? John Cardillo,

224
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 1: former NYPD and host of America Talks Live on Newsmax TV.

225
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 1: They all seem pretty calm. Mommy's bleeding out in the

226
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 1: front seat. Nobody seems to be upset about it, neither

227
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 1: her nor the husband. Yeah, I mean that nine one

228
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 1: one call and to me says at all number one.

229
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 1: You know, having responded to a couple of suicides, luckily

230
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: one where the person didn't succeed, two where they did,

231
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 1: one being a police officer, unfortunately where the spouses were

232
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,960
Speaker 1: all present. The spouses were hysterical doing everything. They were

233
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 1: screaming into the phone for nine one one. They were

234
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: trying to stop the bleeding, even in the ones that

235
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 1: were clear fatalities. It is just beyond all logic and

236
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: reason that your spouse attempts to commit suicide in that way,

237
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 1: slicing your throat and you see them bleeding from the neck.

238
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: But the gash that was almost almost resulted in the capitation,

239
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,920
Speaker 1: and you have them make the nine one one call

240
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 1: and self implicated. I never responded to a suicide with

241
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 1: a woman that was this violence. Typically it was pills,

242
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: it was asphyxia after pills and alcohol. I can ever

243
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 1: recall a time when I responded to women with a

244
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 1: knife or a gunshot wound because of the disfigurement component,

245
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: the crime scene component, etc. Now, if this is not bizarre,

246
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: take to this. What's going on there? My next bleeding?

247
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 1: I need help? Click? Okay, what happened? I tried to

248
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: commit suicide? Please help me. But Tiffany Meade knew that

249
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 1: was a lie. She was forced to say that her

250
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 1: then husband, Chris Ertman, was sitting next to her in

251
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: the car Mead was driving minutes earlier. Ertman used a

252
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 1: knife to slash her throat. He was angry because Mead

253
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: wanted to leave their marriage. It was one of those

254
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: fold out knife. I remember that click, and he put

255
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: his hand over my mouth and he slipped my throat

256
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 1: and he said, don't scream, stay calm and if it's

257
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 1: not already bizarre enough, imagine your husband, your child in

258
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 1: the back seat, your husband sitting next to you, and

259
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: he can't stop you from slashing your own throat so

260
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: badly you nearly sever you're ahead. Take a listen our friend,

261
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: Aaron Moriarty. You just watched me sit in my car

262
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 1: and believe for a while. And then he leans down

263
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,000
Speaker 1: and he said, you know what I want. No. I

264
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 1: said okay, and he said say it. And I said,

265
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 1: I love you and I want to be with you.

266
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 1: And he said okay, and then he said, seal it

267
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: with a kiss, and he leaned in my car and

268
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 1: kissed me. It's like nothing can happen. And so he

269
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: told me that before he would allow me to call

270
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 1: for help, that we had to come up with a story.

271
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 1: And I told him I would say whatever he wanted

272
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: me to say. I pulled out my phone and I

273
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: was the one that called nine one okay. Alexa's terrez

274
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,439
Speaker 1: shut Bethany Marshall, John Cardillo, Julie Rendelman, doctor Michelle Duprey.

275
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 1: You're great, But doctor Bethany, I need a shrink. Did

276
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 1: you hear that before her throat was slashed, he forced

277
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 1: her to kiss him and avow her love for him. Nancy,

278
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: this is so bizarre, so terrifying, it's so disturbing. I

279
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 1: almost am afraid to wait in and analyze this. But

280
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,360
Speaker 1: I have to hold on to the concept of a psychopathy,

281
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: that this guy is a psychopath, and we know with

282
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 1: that personality disorder that whenever they get their feelings hurt

283
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: on some pathological level, of course, not like you or me,

284
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 1: that they have this cold, calculated, revengeful interior, and all

285
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: they want to do is slash and burn. And he

286
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: did not slash her throat because he wanted her back.

287
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: He slashed her throat because he wanted to see her bleed.

288
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: Let's be clear about that. Because he wanted to have

289
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: power over her. He wanted to terrify her. He wanted

290
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 1: to be in the ultimate position of authority where she

291
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 1: would do whatever he wanted her to do. This guy

292
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 1: had been plotting and planning revenge. I'm sure I don't

293
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 1: know you know what had been happening in the prior year.

294
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if he had been stalking her,

295
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: trying to hurt her in other ways, trying to be revengeful.

296
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: Maybe financially withholding perhaps child support checks. I know that

297
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: she had met him there so that she could get

298
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 1: her child support checks, So that suggests that he was

299
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: withholding the check as a form of power over her too.

300
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 1: But this guy is just a pure evil psychopath. That's

301
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: the only way to understand it. This is ABC for

302
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: a Salt Lake City, Utah's Marcus Ortiz. Hurtman used a

303
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: knife to slash her throat. He was angry because Meade

304
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 1: wanted to leave their marriage. That was one of those

305
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: fold out knife. I remember that click, and he put

306
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: his hand over my mouth and he slipped my throat

307
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 1: and he said, don't scream, stay calm, And I didn't scream.

308
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: That's because inside her car was their two year old son.

309
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: She had no idea if he was watching, so she

310
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: didn't scream. I didn't want the last thing if Noah

311
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: remembered me, if I died, I didn't want the last

312
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 1: thing he remembered of me was his mother screaming about you.

313
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 1: She died using her hands, she says. Earthman kept her

314
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: arms down, prevailing her from stopping the bleeding. She finally

315
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: caved in and told Arthman she wouldn't leave him. Erkmann

316
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 1: agreed to let her drive to get help, but told

317
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: her to say she tried committing suicide. He was at

318
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: her side as she thought to stay alive. Crime stories

319
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Police and paramedics arrived and took me

320
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 1: to the hospital. Then the truth came out. I let

321
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: them know Chris did this to me. She tried to

322
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 1: kill me, and I told him to save my baby.

323
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: Artman was brought in for questioning. Detectives checked the wounds

324
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: on his hands and photographed him for their records. Chris,

325
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: why are here? Well, she's tried to commit suicide and

326
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 1: I helped her out and her and I saftly help

327
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: her out and try to see her. I love her,

328
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: I mean I would hurt her. Joining right now. Renowned

329
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: New York criminal defense attorney Julie Randelman. Julie, how in

330
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: the world can a defense be mounted for this guy,

331
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: Christopher Urtman. Well, here's the thing, I mean, you know,

332
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: the argument is you know that you have now too

333
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: crewfully seeing stories. You have his version, which is that

334
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 1: she slashed herself. You have her original version, which is

335
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: that she splashed herself. And so, you know, a defense

336
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: attorney at that point without knowing more, because we know

337
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 1: that there's much more to this case that we eventually

338
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: find out, is going to use that to at least

339
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: create that aspect of they have not proven this case

340
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: beyond reasonable doubt. And the other issue is whether or

341
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 1: not he intended to kill her versus intended to injure her.

342
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: I think those aspects are another thing that the defense

343
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: would potentially hone in on if they felt that they

344
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: couldn't get past the notion that he had been the

345
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: one who stabbed hers. Well, Julie Rendelman, everyone joining me

346
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: out of Manhattan are renowned criminal defense attorney out of

347
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: New York. Julie Rendelman, what about is nine one one call?

348
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: I've played it twice for you. He doesn't sound upset,

349
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't sound excited, he doesn't sound hysterical, agitated. Nothing. Well,

350
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: I think called neither of them sounds that way, which

351
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: is incredibly peculiar. She can't talk because full of blood.

352
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: But there's also a child in the back, so there

353
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: might be some argument to be made that the two

354
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: of them are acting as calmly as they can because

355
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: there's a child in the backseat. But look, I mean,

356
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: you're asking me how I defend him, and so the

357
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: argument is very simple, is that both of them from

358
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: the start say that she is the one who slashed herself.

359
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: And also there was some evidence that she had had

360
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: and suffered some depression and mental illness, so that might

361
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: help in terms of the defensive argument. I'm not saying

362
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: it's a winning argument, but it's certainly the argument we're

363
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: going to use. Well, you know what, doctor Bethany Marshalls, psychoanalyst,

364
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm depressed now just hearing that. That's why Julie Rendelman

365
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: wins so many cases. I mean, she lays it out

366
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: like that. Somebody might actually believe it, but I'm getting

367
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: depressed just hearing it. And you know what the irony is.

368
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: This is National Domestic Abuse Awareness Month, and you know what,

369
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: I think I might start crying. I have been working

370
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: at the Better Women's Center there for nine years at

371
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: night when I was a prosecutor, and we came up

372
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: with this program and that program and this helper and

373
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: that helper, and I feel like we're right where we started. Bethany, Well,

374
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: I think you're right to cast this case in the

375
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: light of domestic violence, because that's really what this is.

376
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure this couple had a long history of domestic violence.

377
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: And when you think of domestic commbicide, and it's so

378
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: I've said this so many times before in your program,

379
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: and it's important for women to know. Women are at

380
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: the greatest risk for domestic commicide as they are about

381
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: to leave a relationship. That is the witching hour, and

382
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: or when they gain their independence. Let's say you're a woman,

383
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: you're being abused, You're under your husband's control. He's taken

384
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: away your money, your resources, your autonomy. But you decide

385
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: to go to college, or you strike out and you

386
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: get your first friend, or you get your driver's license

387
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: and you're about to drive. What happens. You are getting

388
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: in becoming independent. And the more independent you become, the

389
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: more anxious, frightened, and benchful your husband becomes. He will

390
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: try to have control over you. And how will he

391
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: try to have control? Maybe in some small way by brainwashing,

392
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: maybe in a larger way by trying to kill you. So,

393
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: if you're about to leave a relationship and you have

394
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: a disturbed husband, that's when you need to protect yourself.

395
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: That's when you need social support. When you sleep at night,

396
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: make sure that you have all your papers around you.

397
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: Every courthouse has a help center. You can go to

398
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: the help center and you can have somebody help you

399
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: file paperwork so that you can file a tro or

400
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: so that you can leave your relationship. You can also

401
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: protect your children. That's the number one reason women do

402
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: not leave domestic abuse situations is that they are frightened

403
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: for the children and they believe that the husband can

404
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: take the child run away from them. Your husband cannot

405
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: take your children away from you. Your children are yours,

406
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: and you can prove your case in court. And there

407
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: are resources there to help you. If you or someone

408
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: you know or love is suffering from domestic violence, Dial

409
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: one eight hundred seven nine nine safe one eight hundred

410
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: seven nine nine seven two three three. Just talk to them,

411
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: tell them your situation, Wait till there's a safe time

412
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: to speak freely. Well, as you heard Julie Randelman explain

413
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: what a potential defense was going to be, well, she

414
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: was right. Listen to be honest the time of Drie.

415
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: You seem like an honest guy. I don't think you've

416
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: been I don't think you've been in a whole lot

417
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: of trouble, okay, but you're looking in some trouble tonight,

418
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: I have her steam in to the officers seeing you

419
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: cut her throat. She's she's a liar. I've got her

420
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: on nine one and it sounds very close to me

421
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: about I turn my own throat. She and if you

422
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: don't mind, and have stopped talking about this there he

423
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: calls her a liar. Well, it didn't work, but that's

424
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: not the end of it. Listen, if I wouldn't, he

425
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: wouldn't try to save your life. But the detective didn't

426
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: buy a story. He's placed under a rust and eventually

427
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: he pleads guilty to aggravate an assault. These days, the

428
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: scarf from the attack is still visible. Me tries to

429
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: avoid looking into a mirror, but she still believes she

430
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: made the right decision to leave him, even if it

431
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: came at a price. I know it's scary, but don't

432
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: stay for the kids. And the biggest thing is once

433
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: you're leave, you're not safe. That's the most dangerous time.

434
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that. While in prison, Urban again

435
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: tried to have Mead killed by hiring a hitman. Alexis Terressia.

436
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't everybody behind bars know by now their calls are recorded.

437
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: While as my mom always says, criminals are stupid, So

438
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: this guy did not know, did not remember that maybe

439
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: he was recorded with the officer that had investigated this case.

440
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: Just something about it stuck with them. They just knew

441
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: that something was strange. They spent five they spent listening

442
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: to five months of his calls because they knew they

443
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: would say something. They finally realized he was looking for

444
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: a man named Richard, and they decided to find out

445
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: who this Richard was because they understood what he was

446
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: saying was is that he wanted to get rid of

447
00:28:50,320 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: Tiffany crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we realized that we

448
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: had to tell Tiffany what was going on. We have

449
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: an obligation to keep her safe. It was a hard

450
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: conversation because we have to tell this victim who's already

451
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: scared to death, that he's trying to hire somebody to

452
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: kill her. Heart disrupt I mean, I don't think there's

453
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: even words to describe how it feels to hear that

454
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: someone that's already tried to kill you is trying to

455
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: hire someone else to kill you. It was just I

456
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: was devastated. She was trying to get through that healing process,

457
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: and it was so very painful to watch her emotions

458
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: and understand that he's not going to quit. He's just

459
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: not going to quit. We contacted a local police department

460
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: and had her house put on extra patrol. Confidently lived

461
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: in fear. I remember telling her, if you're scaredness two

462
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I'll come up to your house myself.

463
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: You don't have to hold this burden alone, Jenson. Her

464
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: big thing was just keeping me and my little voice safe,

465
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: and that meant the world to me. You are hearing

466
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: Sergeant Bob Thompson on the case Captain jin Dally Tiffany

467
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: herself from our friends at Oxygen's murder for hire. You know,

468
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: I don't get it, John Cardillo. You're already behind bars

469
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: for slashing your wife's throat in front of your baby

470
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: boy in the backseat. Number one. And when I heard

471
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 1: the mom saying how she didn't want to scream because

472
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: that would be the last thing her son heard of her,

473
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: it made me think of Emily Mason, who was running

474
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: through her home screaming and running from her killer. That's

475
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: the last thing her two little girls heard is mommy

476
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: running through the home. So now we have him allegedly

477
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: behind bars, ordering a hint on her. Yeah, I mean

478
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: this was great police work, Nancy. So what I would

479
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: assume now we were talking about an attempted murder and

480
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: a pretty brutal attempted murder investigation. So I would assume

481
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: those detectives went out and they spoke to family members,

482
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: They spoke to neighbors, friends, co workers, other parents at

483
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: the daycare, kids schools, and they put together a fact

484
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: pattern by which this guy had a history of threatening her.

485
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: I had a history of her being terrified for her life.

486
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: You can hear in the nine one one call when

487
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: she says she tried to commit suicide. That's because she

488
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: was afraid. She knew that he was capable of murder.

489
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: And so these detectives did a great job. They said, look,

490
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: we put this fact pattern together. This guy wants her

491
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: dead for all the reasons the doctor mentioned earlier, the

492
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: control watching her, bleed, watching her writhe and fear, and

493
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: they monitored him. And I'm a big proponent, I said

494
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 1: on my show, I said when I do these analyzes

495
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: that I'm a big proponent. I'm not just profiling, but

496
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: of monitoring. When you know somebody's a bad guy, whether

497
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: they be incarcerated or not monitor them because chances are

498
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: they're going to try to do it again. To Julie Rendoman,

499
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't get it. He's behind bars for slashing his

500
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: wife's throat, and according to police, he is trying to

501
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: order a hit from behind bars to get his wife murdered.

502
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: How would you defend that? So, look, it gets harder

503
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: and harder. The one thing, you know, we were talking

504
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: earlier about the idea that people don't realize that they're

505
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: being taped when they're behind bars. He did. He actually

506
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: was very very careful, at least initially about how he

507
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: went about it. In fact, when one of the people

508
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: came to visit the potential suitor to kill his wife,

509
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: he didn't speak. Instead, he put up a piece of

510
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: paper with her address. So he was very very cautious

511
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: in the way he did things, and he used certain

512
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: language that never made out the words I want my

513
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: wife killed instead kind of alluding to it without saying it.

514
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: So any defense attorney is going to grab onto that

515
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: and say he never actually said he wanted her dead.

516
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: He just, you know, the language is just being assumed

517
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: on the part of the prosecutor that this is what

518
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: he wanted. I could say that being played out in

519
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: court to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of la

520
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: he tries to murder her twice. What does that tell

521
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: you about his mindset? Well, that tells me he has

522
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: the mindset of the stalker, but a stalker with homicidal overtones.

523
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: And remember stalker's stalk because they feel that they have

524
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: a special and unique relationship with the victim, even when

525
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: there's evidence to the contrary. In other words, he still

526
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: believes they're in a love relationship. He still believes there's

527
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: something special between the two of them and that she

528
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: is obligated to him. So what happens is that the

529
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: stoker gets stuck in feelings of rejection, like, hey, we're

530
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: an item. Why aren't you calling me back? Why aren't

531
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: you here for me? And so they go after the

532
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: victim in order to punish the victim for having rejected them,

533
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: so to say it again, they feel that he felt

534
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: there was a special relationship. She's rejecting him. He's going

535
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: to punish her for that. And this is probably all

536
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: he's thinking about as he's sitting around in jail with

537
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: nothing else to do, is how he's going to get

538
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: back at her, and there's an overlay of the fact

539
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: that now he's behind bars and she's roaming the world free.

540
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: So he's going to feel preoccupied by the fact that

541
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: she has something he doesn't and he wants to obliterate

542
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: her because of it. Take a listen to our friend

543
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: Aaron Moriarty at CBS forty eight hours. Are you I

544
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: took a couple of pictures. I just want to verify

545
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: with you. Do you see that? Yeah? Is that right? Yeah?

546
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: Is that her? Yeah? Okay. So what I was telling

547
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: me was, you know, make it happen. Yeah, you know,

548
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: have fun, And you're saying, I mean all the way

549
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: right not yeah, how fun? Okay, So when you when

550
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: you want me to have it done by just whenever

551
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: you can. Is there a time period? I mean, is

552
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: there a no? No, no, sooner the better, sooner the better? Yeah? Okay,

553
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: So let me throw a number out to you, just

554
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: so make sure we're on the same page. Yeah, I'm

555
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: thinking about five K Yeah. Does that work? Yeah? So,

556
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: but just so we're clear, I'm talking about you know,

557
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: we're not like there's no way to come back from

558
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: me once I'm once I do You're good with that. Yeah, yeah, okay,

559
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: well I'll uh, I'm planning on taking care of it

560
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: this weekend, okay, all right, and once I get some

561
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: of the money or whatever, then I'll get it worked

562
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: out and you know, yeah, I'll go from there. I'm

563
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: looking at the inside of Tiffany's car. Tiffany made a

564
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: young mom, and her car seat is covered in blood.

565
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how she lived based on the amount

566
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: of blood. The facts, the helpline, and the photos are

567
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: at crime online dot com, where we are highlighting domestic

568
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: abuse Awareness Month. Did you hear him say to the

569
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: hitman Alexis Urez Chuck quote, have fun? He did. He

570
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: said it multiple times. Just have fun, have a good

571
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: time while you're killing the mother of my children that

572
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: I already tried to kill and I'm sitting in jail

573
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: for it. I would really like to know if this

574
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: is what a real conversation is like when it actually works,

575
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: because this, to me sounds so crazy, like I can't

576
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: even believe that these are the words that we're coming

577
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: out of his mouth. He was so vindictive from day one.

578
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: You know, she was just a teenager when they met.

579
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: She was in high school. He was living out of

580
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: the country serving in the armed forces, and he abused

581
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: her from day one, is what she said. You know,

582
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: she was so young, I had these two babies almost

583
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: immediately after they got married, and just spent years trying

584
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: to destroy this woman's life. And so to end it

585
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: with have fun just makes you so creeps me out.

586
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: It thinks that he wants him to do something really

587
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: really brutal to her and have fun while you're torturing

588
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: my wife's death. Before this happened, Tiffany had finally had

589
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: enough of life with him and she ran away with

590
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: her boys. They moved in with her parents. She moved

591
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: on with her life, working full time and going to

592
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: college at night. She even started dating. And that's literally

593
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: the kiss of death, doctor Bethany Marshall. It is absolutely

594
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: the kiss of death because this guy has pathological jealousy.

595
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: And remember men who this is important for women to

596
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: know because it's domestic violence awareness months. Men who are

597
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: what we call malignant narcissists. They are extremely fragile. They

598
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: cannot stand the fact that their wife or girlfriend is

599
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: out free in the world and enjoying themselves having friends.

600
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: So when we talk about a malignant narcissist. What we're

601
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: talking about is a man who wants to destroy They're

602
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: extremely fragile. Everything hurts their feelings at some deep level,

603
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: and they want to destroy their very destructive men. So,

604
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: whether that's to destroy the bond between a parent and

605
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: her child, it's whether it's the wish to destroy the

606
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: child's mental health, to disfigure the woman so that she

607
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: no longer is beautiful to the rest of the world.

608
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: That is the mo the disfigurement, the destruction. And you

609
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: can see that even as he's behind bars, he wants

610
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 1: to destroy her life. It's not just kill her, it's

611
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: destroy her life, destroy her family, destroy good feeling. Well,

612
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: as Julie Rendelman, renowned criminal defense Turning Out of New

613
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: York pointing out, the issue is going to be of

614
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: and tente. Was he really trying to kill her? The

615
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: defense easily could argue that Urtman let Tiffany call nine

616
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: one one if you wanted her dad, why do that?

617
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: And gave her his shirt to help stop the bleeding.

618
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: So long story short, even behind bars, he is still

619
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: trying to have her kill by ordering a hitman. At

620
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: the end, when he's convicted, he comes up for parole

621
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: in just twenty twenty nine. To you, John Cardillo fromer

622
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: NYPD and host of America Talks Live on news Max TV.

623
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: What's the chance of him getting parole? Well, it should

624
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: be slim to none. I mean, in a case like this,

625
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 1: with the overwhelming evidence, it should be slim to none.

626
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: But I just want to make a comment, an anecdote

627
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: about the doctor. It's said, you know you and doctor

628
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: comment that him saying have fun, and she said, well,

629
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: is that a normal conversation. I've heard worse. I mean,

630
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: we've had drug cases where they referred I remember one

631
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: we worked on a federal task force where they were

632
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: referring Tequilo's a cocaine as various kinds of fruit, pineapples

633
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: and oranges. And they said, well, and if any of

634
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: those crossing guards are in the crosswalk, just blow by,

635
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: and meaning if there are any cops, just blow them away.

636
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: And once we got one of them on So, yes,

637
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: they do. These these bad guys who are homicidal and

638
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: psychopathic and sociopathic, they really do talk that way and

639
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: are often caught that way on the wire taps. But

640
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: to the parole question, I would hope that we have

641
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: an intelligent parole board that says absolutely not. Where I

642
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: live in Florida, we've seen them be pretty tough on crimes,

643
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: like as a friend of mine's dad was killed when

644
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: my friend was eighteen. The guy comes up for parole

645
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: about every five years, and finally the family appealed to

646
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: the state and they've extended that now to every fifteen

647
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: years so his elderly mom doesn't have to go through it. Luckily,

648
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: they've denied parole. I think in a case like this

649
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: they certainly will, especially if the child recalls it and

650
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: is at an age for the subsequent parole hearings where

651
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: they can then testify themselves. If the board allows it,

652
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: that's going to be pretty powerful testimony. He's right about

653
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: that being very powerful testimony. To Alexis trestchatwriter online dot Com,

654
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: he is coming up for parole. Do you think he'll

655
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: get it? Why or why not? I do not think

656
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: he will get it because of the law enforcement, the

657
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: detectives in this case. They have worked so hard to

658
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: prove that not only was he a criminal when he

659
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: tried to murder her, but behind bars, he continues his

660
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: criminal actions. There's no repent, there's no apology. Here he

661
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: is continuing to live the life of a criminal, and

662
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: I think that police officers, I think that the parole

663
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: board would take their word to hold it in such

664
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: high standard, with such high regard, that they would not

665
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: release him to you, Doctor Bethany Marshall, What can women

666
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: do to protect themselves? Okay, First of all, you have

667
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: to know the signs of an abusive relationship. Acknowledge that

668
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: you're in one. Jealousy towards pets, financial abuse, somebody always

669
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: keeping tabs on your whereabouts, isolating you from your friends

670
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: and loved ones, blaming you for anything and everything that

671
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: goes wrong, and holding you responsible for their violent behavior.

672
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: You have to know that you want to opt out

673
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: of that relationship. There's no way to fix it. Get

674
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: help and support. There are domestic abuse support groups in

675
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: every single community. You have to take precautionary measures, and

676
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: that is you know once you leave, change your online

677
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: user names and passwords. Only use a safe computer, go

678
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: to the library. If you're planning to leave, use another

679
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: computer so that you're not stalked or tracked by your partner.

680
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: Document the abuse, Nancy. You always have to document it.

681
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: Be ready for emergencies. If you have to leave your house,

682
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: have all your important documents, always know where to run,

683
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: where to go, get a restraining order, get psychological help,

684
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: build up your support systems so that you don't feel

685
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: that you can't leave because you have nowhere to go.

686
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 1: Tiffany Meade, a young mom and her son lived today.

687
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: She encourages women not to stay in the relationship for

688
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: the children, but to leave to save their own lives

689
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: so their children will have a mother. We wait for

690
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 1: the parole hearing as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crimes story,

691
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: signing off last Word one eight hundred seven nine nine

692
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: Safe one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three

693
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: three The toll free domestic violence Hotline. Goodbye Friend,