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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Daron, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci,

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Speaker 1: and of course Joe Madden. Joe, how's it going down

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Speaker 1: there in Florida these days? I'm assuming you haven't shoveled

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Speaker 1: two feet of snow.

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Speaker 3: It's freezing. Had to wear a coat last night when

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Speaker 3: I went out. Yeah, it's unusually cool for right now.

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Speaker 3: I know you guys are going through a lot worse.

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Speaker 3: I looking at my cameras up there and sugar Loaf.

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Speaker 3: My god, the snow was almost gone on the golf

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Speaker 3: course now all the way back. It's really it's just

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure a lot of you guys are

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Speaker 3: talking about reminds you of when you were a kid,

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Speaker 3: the snow banks after the plows came by King of

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Speaker 3: the Hill, all the kind of good stuff we used

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Speaker 3: to play. So I have nothing to complain about. Everything

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Speaker 3: goes well here. That's supposed to warn back up tomorrow,

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Speaker 3: be able to play by Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: Game about Yeah, I'll be you called it, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It was an old school dump like the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff where you say, you know, when I was a kid. Well,

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Speaker 1: now these kids get to experience a honest to goodness

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Speaker 1: blizzard and it looks beautiful right now. Actually, at speaking

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Speaker 1: of old school, I want to talk about one of

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Speaker 1: your old teams, the Los Angeles Angels.

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Speaker 2: They're in the news job.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you caught this Arti Moreno. Typically,

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Speaker 1: you know he's only going to speak about once a

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Speaker 1: year in spring training, he'll make some rounds talk with reporters,

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Speaker 1: and he really caught people's attention from his comments at

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Speaker 1: Angels camp.

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Speaker 2: The headline quote, I'm not sure if you saw it, Joe.

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Speaker 1: He was asked about Angel fans and he said winning

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Speaker 1: is not the number one priority for Angels fans. To

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Speaker 1: quote Artie Moreno, the number one thing fans want is affordability.

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Speaker 1: They want affordability, they want safety, They want a good

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Speaker 1: experience when they come to the ballpark. Believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: winning is not in their top five. The moms want

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Speaker 1: to be able to afford to bring the kids. Moms

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Speaker 1: make about eighty percent of the decisions. They want to

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Speaker 1: be able to bring their kids and be affordable, and

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Speaker 1: they want safety, and you want to have a good experience,

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Speaker 1: so they get all the.

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Speaker 2: Attainment, entertainment stuff or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Interesting to me, Joe that he made these quotes because

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Speaker 1: you and I we know Ardi Moreno, and that's a

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Speaker 1: really important mission for him, is to make tickets affordable.

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Speaker 2: They love having families come out to the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say he misspoke, Joe, but I

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Speaker 1: think he misled people into what's important running a major

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Speaker 1: league franchise. The guiding force is obviously winning. And you

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Speaker 1: look at the Angels. They had a seventeen year stretch

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Speaker 1: where they attracted three million people or more and they

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Speaker 1: were one of the guaranteed.

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Speaker 2: Big draws in baseball and they have.

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Speaker 1: Not gotten to two point seven million in the last

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Speaker 1: four straight years. And why well, they've had ten straight

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Speaker 1: losing seasons. So I think I know what Arty is

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Speaker 1: driving at. You know what drives him to put a

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Speaker 1: product on the field and have people come to the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: And if you do pull people who come to the ballpark,

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Speaker 1: they will tell you things like affordability and safety are

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Speaker 1: super important. They're already there. But I think that the

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Speaker 1: problem here is to get people to the ballpark. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: winning has to be the priority, Joe.

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Speaker 2: You know, LARTI obviously the angels, dear to your heart.

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Speaker 1: I thought some of this was blown out of proportion,

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Speaker 1: but some of it really did resonate with where the resident,

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Speaker 1: where the angels are right now?

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Speaker 2: What do you think?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I agreed that part of it was

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Speaker 3: blown out of proportion. It's just a matter of when

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Speaker 3: you do want to say something publicly like that, you

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Speaker 3: got to be more inclusive regarding all of your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Because I've been around already enough to know that he

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Speaker 3: doesn't like to lose. I know that I've been part

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Speaker 3: of those meetings. So it's kind of a misstatement in

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Speaker 3: a ways. I think if you had just dixcrapolate it

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Speaker 3: all the way out beyond that those five points, I

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Speaker 3: think it could have gone by a little bit easier.

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Speaker 3: Just like a baseball team I've talked about this year

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Speaker 3: and I have. I want it all, you know. I

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Speaker 3: want pitching, I want power, I want contact, I want defense,

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Speaker 3: I want speed.

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Speaker 4: I want all of that.

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Speaker 3: And so I think if you're an owner of a team,

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Speaker 3: you want all of that too, right. You want the affordability,

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Speaker 3: you want a wonderful place for fans to go into

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Speaker 3: ten games. You want tradition, which I you know, that's

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Speaker 3: the one thing I used to really play up with there.

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Speaker 3: I tried to play up when I was out there,

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Speaker 3: to really get into our tradition of the Angels, because

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Speaker 3: I was you know, started in seventy six, believe it

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Speaker 3: or not, seventy five, they weren't that old, and there

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Speaker 3: was already a lot of base a strong base had

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Speaker 3: been built, a foundation, some really good players had come

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Speaker 3: to that organization, and eventually we get into the eighties

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Speaker 3: and I was a part of that in the nineties,

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Speaker 3: and then of course we won our first World Series

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and two. So there's a lot there

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Speaker 3: to promote, and it is it's been disappointing, you know,

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Speaker 3: I really I went there with the intent of I

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Speaker 3: really wanted to be part of the quote unquote rebuild,

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Speaker 3: getting us back to prominence. I thought we were on

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Speaker 3: our way to do that and just do not have

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Speaker 3: an opportunity to finish it off. So there is the

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Speaker 3: fans out there, listen, that's really good baseball country. Again

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Speaker 3: we've spoken about. I love southern California high school and

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Speaker 3: collegiate and junior college baseball. I think they've had dynamic

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Speaker 3: coaching out there. I think they've just like Orange County

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Speaker 3: is kind of a bashing of conservativism. There's a real

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Speaker 3: conservative bent on baseball out there, which I like, you

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Speaker 3: play the game right, you play the game fundamentally correct.

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Speaker 3: Coaches were tough. They're almost like football coaches. You've made

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Speaker 3: a mistake, you were called out on it. There's so

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Speaker 3: much good going on out there, and I think, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the fans have options out there that could go to

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Speaker 3: the beach, go to an art festival, go to a

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Speaker 3: flea market on a weekend or any particular day the

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Speaker 3: weather's so good, So there's a lot of options to consider.

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Speaker 3: As a paying customer. What do I spend my dollars?

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Speaker 3: What do I vote my dollars?

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Speaker 4: So I get all.

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Speaker 3: Of that, But for me, the angel should be I

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Speaker 3: don't know, in playoff consideration annually this is it's been

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Speaker 3: way too long. The like I said, the alumni there,

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Speaker 3: there's some tough guys out there, man, I play with

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Speaker 3: a lot of tough guys and I coached didn't manage

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Speaker 3: a lot of them, and very prideful people.

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Speaker 4: So it doesn't make any sense to me.

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Speaker 3: The trend that's been going on regarding the inability to

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Speaker 3: play up to Angel standards as I saw them, and

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Speaker 3: that's the part that's disappointing. So yes, I already should

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Speaker 3: have extrapolated out a little bit farther exactly what he meant.

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Speaker 4: I do believe he wants to win.

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Speaker 3: I do believe he likes winning because I've been there,

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Speaker 3: and I do believe that the fans of Southern California

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Speaker 3: and Angel fan base is a strong one, loyal one,

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Speaker 3: believe me. And it really began in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: two when we won the World Series. That's why I

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Speaker 3: saw drem shift. I mean because I was there again

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Speaker 3: for a period of time. We did good and pretty

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Speaker 3: good in the nineties, eighties, rope for pretty good early eighties,

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Speaker 3: but two thousand and two shifted everything. That was the

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Speaker 3: paradigm shift. That's where everybody became an Angels fan. You know,

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Speaker 3: x Stine and the X Factor and all the thundersticks

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Speaker 3: and everything's just started catching on. The little things that

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Speaker 3: are Bodley Monkey. I could keep going on and on.

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Speaker 3: So it's there, it's waiting to happen. It wants to happen.

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Speaker 3: Those fans just don't only want affordable ballpark to attend,

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Speaker 3: but they also want the Angels to win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they do have great fans, There's no question about it.

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Speaker 1: It's a great place to watch a game. It's a

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Speaker 1: good vibe in the ballpark. A lot of things going

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Speaker 1: for the Angels. They're just been and they have been

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Speaker 1: obviously an underachieving franchise. A couple of the things I

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Speaker 1: think they need, Joe. They've got to update their spring

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Speaker 1: training facility. I know they've been looking into that. They're

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Speaker 1: behind the curve when it comes to just it's probably

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Speaker 1: true at the main ballpark too. Just some of the

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Speaker 1: features and the edges that teams can get in terms

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Speaker 1: of what available to the players from a training standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Stability, I mean this team has locked stability.

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Speaker 1: I mean since Joe, since you left, Joe, They've gone

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Speaker 1: through four managers, four straight seasons, losing eighty nine or

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Speaker 1: more games. They've gone through general managers. They've got Kurt

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Speaker 1: Zuzuki as the manager this year on a one year contract.

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Speaker 1: It's just been a lot of turnover without stability. Look

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Speaker 1: at any great franchise you want to extend windows, you

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Speaker 1: need some stability. It hasn't happened there. They definitely have

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Speaker 1: room to increase the payroll. Listen, they're probably at about

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty one million dollars this year. That's

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Speaker 1: down from about two h six last year. It's still

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Speaker 1: enough to be competitive, don't get me wrong. But traditionally

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Speaker 1: Artie Moreno has stayed beneath that first luxury tax threshold.

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Speaker 1: I think he did go over at once and it

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Speaker 1: was almost really an accounting era. They barely got over it.

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Speaker 1: So there's room to grow. But what they have right now,

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Speaker 1: Joe I would say to me, especially in a very

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Speaker 1: tough division, I don't see them as a contender. So

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Speaker 1: I think you have to spend smartly when it comes

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Speaker 1: to when you're ready, where you are in that winning

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Speaker 1: curve defines everything in terms of the spending money in

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Speaker 1: the here and now, and I think they're not quite

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Speaker 1: there yet.

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Speaker 2: How do they get there again?

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Speaker 1: I get back to facilities, they get back to stability,

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Speaker 1: but it isn't attractive play and like the Dodgers up

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Speaker 1: the road, it should be a destination place, right, it

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Speaker 1: should be a place where players want to go play.

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Speaker 4: The infrastructure is substandard. There's no question.

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Speaker 3: Spring training for years they were the major league team

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Speaker 3: was upstairs in a really deficient facility.

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Speaker 4: These have to raise a tent up there for weight

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Speaker 4: room every year, and.

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Speaker 3: Batting tunnels, et cetera, and just a substandard clubhouse. And

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Speaker 3: the minor league team was the minor league situation was

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Speaker 3: down below in the clover leaf with much better facilities.

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Speaker 3: Eventually that was rectified and it was shifted. Regardless that

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Speaker 3: still that facility down below could use a little bit

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Speaker 3: of an upgrade.

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Speaker 4: The major league.

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Speaker 3: Facility itself, I love Anaheim Stadium, but I'm telling you

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Speaker 3: what it's just, it's slowly deteriorated to the point where

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Speaker 3: it is it's just one of the least most the

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Speaker 3: least impressive out of all the major league ballparks when

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Speaker 3: you walk into it. There's been there's been a lack

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Speaker 3: of vision regarding building up the infrastructure there, no question.

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Speaker 3: And on the minor league side, I mean the spring

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Speaker 3: training side too, So it starts right there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you go to the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: And my god, it's like an NFL facility right there,

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Speaker 3: and and others that you go to the Rockies and

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Speaker 3: the Diamondbacks, my god, you walk on that campus and

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Speaker 3: it's like leaps and bells you can jargue with though

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Speaker 3: the Rockies really haven't taken advantage of that either. But

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Speaker 3: the infrastructure is not the greatest and just becoming down

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Speaker 3: to the product even my last moments there. For me,

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Speaker 3: they missed an opportunity man to turn show Hey into something,

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Speaker 3: and I think even Mike trot into something because when

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Speaker 3: show Hey is not coming back, which is pretty obvious,

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Speaker 3: I really thought they should have traded.

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Speaker 4: Him at the end of that.

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Speaker 3: I know it's hard to be the guy that traded

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Speaker 3: Showio Tani, but they probably would have been reaping some

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Speaker 3: kind of reward since then. And I also thought one

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Speaker 3: show He left, they should have traded Trotty because at

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Speaker 3: that point it was really hard for Mike to be

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Speaker 3: the pillar to rebuild that whole situation on. And you know,

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Speaker 3: you talk about the old days with herschel Walker trades,

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Speaker 3: and you know all the guys that came back in

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Speaker 3: on a hall like that. Potentially it doesn't always work,

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Speaker 3: but at least would have given them an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: restock the cupboards a little bit. So there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that the infrastructure was not good. I thought

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Speaker 3: they missed out on the opportunity with Shohey, and then

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Speaker 3: trouty to really possibly kickstart. And I know they don't

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Speaker 3: like to word out their rebuildings either, do I man,

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Speaker 3: I'm not even though I've been part of rebuilds, whether

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Speaker 3: it was the Angels and then eventually the Rays and

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Speaker 3: then the Cubs, that the Angels just don't like that stuff.

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Speaker 3: But there was a perfect opportunity I thought to really

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Speaker 3: kickstart that way. That wouldn't have cost him anything other

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Speaker 3: than some bad publicity that they could have overcome very easily. So, yes,

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Speaker 3: infrastructure below standard, and I thought they missed out on

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to reap some benefits from show Hey leaving

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Speaker 3: and try out potential leaving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I understand the show Hey situation there at that trade deadline,

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Speaker 1: you probably knew if your ardy Moreno, maybe you didn't

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Speaker 1: know where the contractor was going numbers wise, but you

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Speaker 1: probably knew you weren't going to keep him, even though

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Speaker 1: I think show Hey really did have a preference to

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Speaker 1: stay there in a perfect world. But at the time

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Speaker 1: I got to admit Joe first guess was I thought

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Speaker 1: they did the right thing hanging out to him.

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Speaker 2: Remember, they were only a few games out of a

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Speaker 2: wildcard situation, and you know.

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Speaker 1: We bang a lot of these teams for not trying

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Speaker 1: to win, and you had a team that has been

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Speaker 1: desperate to get into the postseason and it was within

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Speaker 1: arms reach at that point at the trade deadline. Now

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Speaker 1: it went downhill quickly after that, and on hindsight, you say, well,

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Speaker 1: they should have moved him.

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Speaker 2: But when a team is so hungry for a.

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Speaker 1: Playoffs spot and there's an opportunity there, it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: great one, but it was they were in the mix,

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Speaker 1: they were looking at making a run for a playoff spot.

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Speaker 2: I was okay with them hanging on to show.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I actually said it at the time, though you know,

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Speaker 3: I had no skin in the game because I was

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Speaker 3: gone by then.

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Speaker 4: But I really, I really thought that would have been

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Speaker 4: the wise things to do.

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Speaker 3: And again I just I guess maybe having too much

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Speaker 3: inside information regarding being in the building and knowing what

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Speaker 3: it felt like overarching overall and you know what occurred

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Speaker 3: even after I left, I just thought it would have

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Speaker 3: been the right thing to do, that's all. And again,

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Speaker 3: I'm not trying. This is not a padding on the back.

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Speaker 3: I'm not attacking anybody. I just thought at that moment, again,

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Speaker 3: the infrastructure needs to be addressed. Not bright shiny objects,

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Speaker 3: but really non sexy stuff has to be addressed. And

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Speaker 3: number two, I thought there was a perfect opportunity to

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Speaker 3: restock that place because again it's just and I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna this is not here, this is not any kind

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Speaker 3: of a critique or critical and just telling you being

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Speaker 3: inside the building and filling what everything felt like at

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Speaker 3: that moment.

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Speaker 4: I just thought it was the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And finally, Joe, let's look ahead to the twenty sixth

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Speaker 1: season for the Angels. You know, as they've done the

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Speaker 1: last few years, they're taking a lot of flyers on people,

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Speaker 1: especially with the pitching staff, Guys trying to make their

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Speaker 1: way back from injuries. Alec Manoa, Grayson Rodriguez, Robert Stevenson,

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Speaker 1: Kirby Yates, guys like Hunter Strickland coming back. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of flyers are taking on pitchers trying to come back.

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Speaker 1: I like the idea Kurtzuzuki great guy that a Catcher's

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Speaker 1: been around a lot of great managers.

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Speaker 2: You just never know what first time managers.

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Speaker 1: You're always hoping you have the next steven Vote, and

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Speaker 1: maybe Kurtzuzuki is that guy. I don't like the idea

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Speaker 1: of any manager on a one year deal, but that's

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Speaker 1: the reality right now. Can this team compete, which in

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Speaker 1: these days means can you play five hundred ball for

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Speaker 1: four months and actually hang around wildcard race?

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Speaker 3: I like Kurt I was around him for a bit there.

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Speaker 3: He's got an ingratiating way about him. He communica well.

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Speaker 3: He's definitely would be into cooperation and trying to take

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Speaker 3: whatever the vision is upstairs and promoting it downstairs.

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Speaker 4: I see him doing all of that.

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Speaker 3: You know, of course, as a as a manager of

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Speaker 3: game strategy, I really can't speak to that, but I

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Speaker 3: know as a communicator within he's an easy conversation So

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Speaker 3: I think from that perspective he should do a really

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Speaker 3: good job. Again with all the fellows that you just mentioned,

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Speaker 3: nice players, man, nice players.

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Speaker 4: But the overarching for me is like what is the culture?

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Speaker 3: And you know, people don't like to hear that word,

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Speaker 3: but that was really what I was attempting to do

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Speaker 3: there culturally, you know, creating this situation, this method that's

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Speaker 3: able to replicate itself on an annual basis, and then

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Speaker 3: you start getting a certain vibe within your clubhouse that

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Speaker 3: attracts and guys buy into and know what to expect,

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Speaker 3: and then when you get new guys in, they absorb

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Speaker 3: them quickly and tell them this is how we do

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Speaker 3: things or this is not how we do things here.

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Speaker 3: That's the part of the non sexy component of all

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Speaker 3: this that's important. It's not just about bringing you know,

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Speaker 3: different folks in. It's got to be with the specific

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Speaker 3: thought in mind and a method of operation that I

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Speaker 3: don't think has been fully formulated. And I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people mock because they really don't understand, you know,

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Speaker 3: what it is or how to do it. So I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, if Kirk can really somehow get an opportunity

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Speaker 3: there for the next couple of years and just really

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Speaker 3: he's come from from some great spots and including cal

339
00:16:34,438 --> 00:16:37,598
Speaker 3: State Fullerton, so he knows what it's all about, how

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Speaker 3: to create a culture and the method of play, and

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Speaker 3: I think that's.

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Speaker 4: What they need. That was my goal was to.

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Speaker 3: Bring back that gritty method of Angel baseball that I

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Speaker 3: saw in two thousand and two and before that, really

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Speaker 3: dynamic pitching, solid defense, and again, for lack of a

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Speaker 3: better term, tough guys. I mean there was a time

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Speaker 3: that we fought the Texas Rangers during batting practice one night,

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Speaker 3: I've hit funos there in the night before, Adam Kennedy

349
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Speaker 3: had a tough time with what's name Lard the catcher

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Speaker 3: in a ball and strich situation, and I knew, I

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Speaker 3: know afk Adam really well. And the next day we're

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Speaker 3: taking VP and I'm Adam standing in front of me

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Speaker 3: and he's practicing in swings and as he's practicing, he's

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Speaker 3: looking behind where Texas was just stretching, and he happened

355
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Speaker 3: to lock eyes with Laird, and here we go. All

356
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Speaker 3: of a sudden, he's running after Laird and it was

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Speaker 3: a good old fashioned brawl during batting practice.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, folks, but I really dig on that stuff. I

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Speaker 4: think it matters. I think it makes a difference.

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Speaker 3: I'm watching like old videos of different altercations during time

361
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Speaker 3: in MLB and Will becoming a little bit too cozy

362
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Speaker 3: with one another, and it's again, I love the Angels dynamic.

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Speaker 3: And I could start naming guys all the way back

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Speaker 3: to when I first began going to Big league camps

365
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Speaker 3: in eighty one, when you had the sense he's at third,

366
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Speaker 3: you had Burlson at short stuff, you had Ritchie had

367
00:17:58,958 --> 00:18:02,038
Speaker 3: Rodney you had Boonie, you had Reggie, you had Winfield.

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00:18:02,038 --> 00:18:04,718
Speaker 3: You had all these dudes different and there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 3: with that, man, just you know, creating this culture and

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00:18:07,638 --> 00:18:10,478
Speaker 3: this method of operation that I think that's the first

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Speaker 3: should be the first order of business there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listening to that story about angels in Texas reminds

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Speaker 1: me of your I think I might still be in

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00:18:18,998 --> 00:18:21,198
Speaker 1: the Devil Rays taking on the New York Yankees in

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Speaker 1: spring training and setting a tone there with a bench

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Speaker 1: clearing brawl. Hey, listen, Joe, and I want to give

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Speaker 1: you a quiz coming up in our next segment. Here

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Speaker 1: you noticed, I'm sure that Bill Mazerowski, the Hall of

379
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Speaker 1: Fame second baseman died, hit probably the most famous home

380
00:18:37,918 --> 00:18:41,518
Speaker 1: run in baseball history. But you know what, it's not

381
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Speaker 1: even in the top five of the most clutch hits

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Speaker 1: of all time. I wanted to give you a quiz, Joe,

383
00:18:48,078 --> 00:18:51,238
Speaker 1: on the top hits of all time, and we'll see

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Speaker 1: what you can come up with.

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00:18:52,118 --> 00:18:53,998
Speaker 2: I know you were there for at least one of those.

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Speaker 1: We talk about that right after this on the Book

387
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Speaker 1: of Joe.

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00:19:09,518 --> 00:19:11,478
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Yeah, it's kind

389
00:19:11,518 --> 00:19:11,958
Speaker 2: of crazy.

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Speaker 1: Joe the Mazarowski home run nineteen sixty. First of all,

391
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Speaker 1: I love that because it's so baseball, right. He was

392
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Speaker 1: hitting eighth in the lineup that day against the Mighty Yankees.

393
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Speaker 1: And I always say this, You know, you can't call

394
00:19:24,598 --> 00:19:26,318
Speaker 1: time out and design a play to put the ball

395
00:19:26,318 --> 00:19:29,478
Speaker 1: in your best player's hands. You don't have the quarterbacks

396
00:19:29,478 --> 00:19:32,398
Speaker 1: starting to play every time a year at this, this

397
00:19:32,478 --> 00:19:35,398
Speaker 1: wheel of fortune, the batting lineup and where it comes

398
00:19:35,438 --> 00:19:37,518
Speaker 1: around at the particular time. Leading off the bottom of

399
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Speaker 1: the ninth inning, tie game Game seven, it's number eight,

400
00:19:41,118 --> 00:19:44,878
Speaker 1: light hitting Bill Mazerowski hits a home run, and you

401
00:19:44,918 --> 00:19:47,878
Speaker 1: know it's not the most clutch hit of all time

402
00:19:47,918 --> 00:19:49,998
Speaker 1: if you can believe that, or not as crazy as

403
00:19:49,998 --> 00:19:52,998
Speaker 1: that sounds, right, Yeah, in Game seven of the World Series,

404
00:19:53,038 --> 00:19:55,918
Speaker 1: will walk off Homer. What's bigger, Well, it turns out

405
00:19:55,958 --> 00:20:00,518
Speaker 1: it's number eight according to win Championship probability added.

406
00:20:01,038 --> 00:20:02,758
Speaker 2: So it's a little bit of an algorithm, Joe.

407
00:20:02,758 --> 00:20:06,518
Speaker 1: But basically it takes into account all the factors of

408
00:20:06,558 --> 00:20:10,358
Speaker 1: the game. You know, score, how many outs, what inning

409
00:20:10,398 --> 00:20:12,838
Speaker 1: it was, you know, what game of a series it was.

410
00:20:14,518 --> 00:20:17,758
Speaker 1: You actually were at one of these, Joe, in the

411
00:20:17,798 --> 00:20:21,078
Speaker 1: top eight of all time. You want to venture a

412
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Speaker 1: guess as to what hit you witness that is in

413
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Speaker 1: the top eight of the most clutch hits in the

414
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Speaker 1: postseason postseason?

415
00:20:29,198 --> 00:20:33,198
Speaker 3: Okay, because the long Goore's home rund doesn't count, then right, Okay?

416
00:20:33,598 --> 00:20:36,078
Speaker 4: I would say, what's his face? Davis with the Indians?

417
00:20:36,398 --> 00:20:42,878
Speaker 1: Oh, you are so good? Yes, what's his face? Rajer Davis?

418
00:20:43,318 --> 00:20:47,798
Speaker 1: That is number six all time on our list, not

419
00:20:47,918 --> 00:20:51,198
Speaker 1: my list, but this is again going by win probability

420
00:20:51,198 --> 00:20:55,238
Speaker 1: added to win a championship. What's interesting is that Game

421
00:20:55,398 --> 00:20:59,798
Speaker 1: seven of last year's World Series, Joe has three of

422
00:20:59,878 --> 00:21:04,558
Speaker 1: the top twelve plays of all time in the postseason.

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Speaker 2: You want to take a guess on what those three were.

424
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's first of all, there's no other game

425
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Speaker 1: that has more than two, and there's three of the

426
00:21:12,078 --> 00:21:13,558
Speaker 1: top twelve in one game.

427
00:21:13,638 --> 00:21:15,038
Speaker 2: That's how exciting that game was.

428
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Speaker 4: The home run the shortstop Mige Rojas Rojas Ross. Yeah.

429
00:21:19,358 --> 00:21:22,918
Speaker 1: Again, here's a guy bat ninth a utility guy. Dave

430
00:21:22,998 --> 00:21:25,318
Speaker 1: Roberts put him in the lineup for Game six because

431
00:21:25,318 --> 00:21:28,278
Speaker 1: he said, I can't lose the World Series without using

432
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Speaker 1: one of my glue guys. Yes, it turns out one

433
00:21:31,238 --> 00:21:32,998
Speaker 1: of his glue. Guys hit the tying home run in

434
00:21:32,998 --> 00:21:35,158
Speaker 1: the bottom of the ninth. That's actually number twelve on

435
00:21:35,198 --> 00:21:36,958
Speaker 1: the list. Miguel Rojas's home run.

436
00:21:36,998 --> 00:21:38,838
Speaker 3: I always get. I can always screw up his I

437
00:21:38,958 --> 00:21:40,518
Speaker 3: like that guy. I think he's a very good player.

438
00:21:40,598 --> 00:21:44,918
Speaker 3: Oh he's way under He's a winning player, absolutely way underrated.

439
00:21:44,958 --> 00:21:46,318
Speaker 4: So there's two others in that in.

440
00:21:46,278 --> 00:21:49,038
Speaker 2: That series or that game, same game. Two others.

441
00:21:49,318 --> 00:21:52,078
Speaker 4: Wow, you know what? Uh okay, But it had to

442
00:21:52,118 --> 00:21:54,358
Speaker 4: be a hit. It had to be something positive not negative.

443
00:21:54,638 --> 00:21:55,958
Speaker 2: Well, there's actually one of both.

444
00:21:56,038 --> 00:21:59,518
Speaker 1: Actually, the one hit was the one that actually decided

445
00:21:59,518 --> 00:22:02,478
Speaker 1: the game, the winning run scored on it. People forget

446
00:22:02,478 --> 00:22:05,158
Speaker 1: because we all remember Miguel it was so stunning, But

447
00:22:05,198 --> 00:22:07,078
Speaker 1: the guy who put the Dodgers ahead was.

448
00:22:08,758 --> 00:22:09,158
Speaker 4: Shoot.

449
00:22:09,318 --> 00:22:12,998
Speaker 1: I forgot, easy to forget. Just quiet goes about his business.

450
00:22:13,038 --> 00:22:14,478
Speaker 1: Will Smith hit the home run.

451
00:22:14,638 --> 00:22:16,198
Speaker 4: That's why he was very he's very good man.

452
00:22:17,118 --> 00:22:19,078
Speaker 3: I can't even go back to Bobby Thompson or Chris

453
00:22:19,198 --> 00:22:22,798
Speaker 3: Chambliss for all these Kirk, but I mean, you're you're

454
00:22:23,158 --> 00:22:25,438
Speaker 3: I can't even remember last postseason.

455
00:22:26,078 --> 00:22:27,238
Speaker 2: What you had for breakfast?

456
00:22:27,998 --> 00:22:28,278
Speaker 4: Uh.

457
00:22:28,318 --> 00:22:31,598
Speaker 1: And actually number four on the list and the most

458
00:22:31,678 --> 00:22:36,878
Speaker 1: impactful play in that game seven last year. No, that's

459
00:22:36,878 --> 00:22:41,118
Speaker 1: a good guess though, game ending double play, Kirk.

460
00:22:41,958 --> 00:22:44,638
Speaker 2: I mean it's first and third, one out.

461
00:22:45,318 --> 00:22:49,638
Speaker 1: That's the number four most important play in postseason history.

462
00:22:50,318 --> 00:22:50,758
Speaker 4: Uh.

463
00:22:50,798 --> 00:22:53,038
Speaker 1: And I said it then, Joe, and I'll say it again.

464
00:22:53,718 --> 00:22:55,798
Speaker 1: You have to start the rudder there at first base.

465
00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:59,358
Speaker 1: Ground ball pitcher, ground ball hitter. You know they're not

466
00:22:59,438 --> 00:23:02,158
Speaker 1: throwing down the second base. Dave Roberts told me that

467
00:23:02,838 --> 00:23:06,598
Speaker 1: Addison Barger is plus runner at first base. You got

468
00:23:06,598 --> 00:23:08,958
Speaker 1: to take that double play out of order, didn't happen

469
00:23:09,398 --> 00:23:10,918
Speaker 1: and got the ground ball.

470
00:23:11,038 --> 00:23:13,838
Speaker 3: Well, we had a slow runner ground ball picture, you know,

471
00:23:13,998 --> 00:23:15,838
Speaker 3: easy to assume the ground ball is gonna be put

472
00:23:15,878 --> 00:23:17,598
Speaker 3: on the ground. That's when you definitely start runners. I

473
00:23:17,598 --> 00:23:20,678
Speaker 3: mean that's I had stabbed that analytical sheet. I think

474
00:23:20,678 --> 00:23:22,118
Speaker 3: that we had it when it was with the Cubs.

475
00:23:22,158 --> 00:23:23,678
Speaker 3: We developed there could have been the race, but I'm

476
00:23:23,718 --> 00:23:28,198
Speaker 3: not sure. But the sheet actually would predict probability of

477
00:23:28,278 --> 00:23:32,038
Speaker 3: ground balls versus that picture and that hitter combined, so

478
00:23:32,158 --> 00:23:33,758
Speaker 3: I would have like a high number or a low

479
00:23:33,838 --> 00:23:35,358
Speaker 3: number the ball near a ball and ground It really

480
00:23:35,478 --> 00:23:38,278
Speaker 3: was helpful when the starter runner sent a full count

481
00:23:38,278 --> 00:23:40,518
Speaker 3: if there was any kind of ambivalence at all. If

482
00:23:40,558 --> 00:23:42,798
Speaker 3: there was a high high chance of probability or a

483
00:23:42,798 --> 00:23:44,718
Speaker 3: probability of a ground ball hit by this hitter and

484
00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:47,038
Speaker 3: the pitcher did throw ground balls, I'm starting this guy

485
00:23:47,158 --> 00:23:47,798
Speaker 3: one hundred percent.

486
00:23:47,798 --> 00:23:48,718
Speaker 4: I'm going to start in this guy.

487
00:23:48,958 --> 00:23:50,718
Speaker 3: And then on the other side, if it's a swing

488
00:23:50,758 --> 00:23:53,438
Speaker 3: and miss kind of a pitcher, swing and miss kind

489
00:23:53,438 --> 00:23:55,078
Speaker 3: of a hitter and the ball is going to be

490
00:23:55,078 --> 00:23:57,758
Speaker 3: in the air, I might not start this guy. I

491
00:23:57,798 --> 00:24:00,358
Speaker 3: really loved that chart, and I really tried to get

492
00:24:00,358 --> 00:24:01,918
Speaker 3: the Angels to developed that when I was there, but

493
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:05,038
Speaker 3: they were uncomfortable with it. That's part about analytics that

494
00:24:05,038 --> 00:24:08,438
Speaker 3: people don't really understand that. Let every analytical department is

495
00:24:08,478 --> 00:24:11,518
Speaker 3: created equally, so you're always looking for those little edge

496
00:24:11,518 --> 00:24:16,798
Speaker 3: things right there. I agree with you, you're.

497
00:24:14,198 --> 00:24:15,118
Speaker 4: Not throwing through right there.

498
00:24:15,198 --> 00:24:17,718
Speaker 3: One of my things in spring training is like the

499
00:24:18,118 --> 00:24:19,878
Speaker 3: point of the game, the emphasis of the game when

500
00:24:19,878 --> 00:24:22,118
Speaker 3: it goes to that first and third play, and that

501
00:24:22,158 --> 00:24:25,118
Speaker 3: directs our priority. It's always a priority base play. So

502
00:24:25,198 --> 00:24:27,798
Speaker 3: if the runner at third is a priority and we

503
00:24:27,838 --> 00:24:30,598
Speaker 3: can you cannot afford to let that man score, then

504
00:24:30,678 --> 00:24:33,158
Speaker 3: we were probably not going to throw and start this

505
00:24:33,238 --> 00:24:35,718
Speaker 3: confusing play going from home the second back to home.

506
00:24:36,078 --> 00:24:39,838
Speaker 3: So yes, you would probably that'd be part of the equation. Also,

507
00:24:39,998 --> 00:24:43,358
Speaker 3: all those things for me are considered in regards to

508
00:24:43,358 --> 00:24:44,718
Speaker 3: whether the start the runner or not.

509
00:24:44,878 --> 00:24:46,038
Speaker 4: And I think you're right on with that.

510
00:24:46,478 --> 00:24:46,718
Speaker 2: Yeah.

511
00:24:46,758 --> 00:24:49,438
Speaker 1: And also there's no way I'm having the second basement

512
00:24:49,558 --> 00:24:51,918
Speaker 1: move to cover second base to open up a whole

513
00:24:52,198 --> 00:24:54,758
Speaker 1: correct when the other party, the World Series tying run

514
00:24:54,878 --> 00:24:56,878
Speaker 1: is a third base as you well put it, that's

515
00:24:56,918 --> 00:25:00,478
Speaker 1: the priority. So now going to go countdown style, Joe,

516
00:25:00,518 --> 00:25:03,158
Speaker 1: the top eight of all time. I mentioned Bill Malziowski

517
00:25:03,198 --> 00:25:06,958
Speaker 1: at number eight, number seven, Where were you for this one?

518
00:25:06,998 --> 00:25:11,798
Speaker 1: Francisco Cabrera, Oh, two run single, Game seven, nineteen ninety

519
00:25:11,838 --> 00:25:16,638
Speaker 1: two NLCS. That's the famous play where I love the

520
00:25:16,638 --> 00:25:18,798
Speaker 1: way and Evince like told this story. He was in

521
00:25:18,878 --> 00:25:21,998
Speaker 1: center field and he mentioned to Barry Bonds to move

522
00:25:22,038 --> 00:25:25,118
Speaker 1: in closer with the game winning run on second base

523
00:25:25,158 --> 00:25:27,558
Speaker 1: and left field. Bonds looked at him and gave him

524
00:25:27,558 --> 00:25:31,838
Speaker 1: the finger. Didn't move, I said, ring barely made it

525
00:25:31,838 --> 00:25:32,718
Speaker 1: home from second base.

526
00:25:32,798 --> 00:25:35,038
Speaker 3: I remember that very well. There was two outs of

527
00:25:35,038 --> 00:25:37,798
Speaker 3: nobody on. Wasn't there before that? Ever, that situation occurred

528
00:25:37,878 --> 00:25:39,918
Speaker 3: or was it. It might be right, and I might have been,

529
00:25:39,958 --> 00:25:41,598
Speaker 3: and then he got in the right and there's no

530
00:25:41,678 --> 00:25:44,838
Speaker 3: pinch running for a really really I mean glacially slow runner,

531
00:25:45,838 --> 00:25:49,198
Speaker 3: And I listened. I scouted bonds when he was at

532
00:25:49,238 --> 00:25:51,478
Speaker 3: Arizona State. Never really had the strongest arm. I think

533
00:25:51,518 --> 00:25:54,198
Speaker 3: it improved as he got to the Major League baseball

534
00:25:54,238 --> 00:25:58,198
Speaker 3: professional baseball. But I mean for him to score on

535
00:25:58,238 --> 00:25:59,838
Speaker 3: that base, it was hit pretty hard too, if I

536
00:25:59,878 --> 00:26:02,758
Speaker 3: remember correctly, and it was right at him, but he

537
00:26:02,798 --> 00:26:04,118
Speaker 3: might have been deep, but it was kind of like

538
00:26:04,158 --> 00:26:06,758
Speaker 3: a good angle throw. But yeah, I do remember that

539
00:26:06,878 --> 00:26:09,558
Speaker 3: really really well, sliding just beating it. And then one

540
00:26:09,638 --> 00:26:12,718
Speaker 3: more of point, Like you talked about not covering on

541
00:26:13,078 --> 00:26:15,838
Speaker 3: that plate with the with the Cubs, I don't know

542
00:26:15,838 --> 00:26:17,838
Speaker 3: how many years in a row when Molino was there.

543
00:26:18,078 --> 00:26:20,838
Speaker 3: Obviously was there the whole time YADI eight. We weren't covering.

544
00:26:21,158 --> 00:26:23,558
Speaker 3: We weren't covering anytime a runner started with him hit it,

545
00:26:23,598 --> 00:26:24,238
Speaker 3: we weren't covering.

546
00:26:25,158 --> 00:26:25,838
Speaker 4: Wasn't going to cover.

547
00:26:26,158 --> 00:26:27,958
Speaker 3: I thought he was that good at handling the bat

548
00:26:27,998 --> 00:26:30,158
Speaker 3: that if you saw a didn't field a break, he

549
00:26:30,198 --> 00:26:33,438
Speaker 3: would hit the ball in that particular direction. So I

550
00:26:33,478 --> 00:26:35,078
Speaker 3: don't care what time of the game was we were

551
00:26:35,118 --> 00:26:36,798
Speaker 3: not going to cover with they Aaudia and Molina hitting

552
00:26:36,838 --> 00:26:38,118
Speaker 3: with the runner at first movie.

553
00:26:38,238 --> 00:26:39,798
Speaker 2: Wow, that's respect right there.

554
00:26:40,798 --> 00:26:43,198
Speaker 1: Working down the list, number six was the Roger I

555
00:26:43,398 --> 00:26:44,078
Speaker 1: what's his face?

556
00:26:44,238 --> 00:26:46,798
Speaker 2: Davis home run. Number five.

557
00:26:46,918 --> 00:26:49,398
Speaker 1: We mentioned this Will Smith the home run to win

558
00:26:49,518 --> 00:26:52,878
Speaker 1: Game seven in twenty twenty five. Number four was the

559
00:26:52,918 --> 00:26:57,078
Speaker 1: Alejandro Kirk ground ball double play number three. It's from

560
00:26:57,078 --> 00:27:00,558
Speaker 1: two thousand and one Game seven World Series and you're thinking, well,

561
00:27:00,598 --> 00:27:03,838
Speaker 1: it must be Luis Gonzales, right bloop game winning hit walker.

562
00:27:05,118 --> 00:27:09,678
Speaker 2: No, it's actually Tony Womack's double Oh I remember that.

563
00:27:10,078 --> 00:27:11,038
Speaker 2: You remember that one.

564
00:27:11,118 --> 00:27:14,638
Speaker 1: They're down two to one, there's one out, there's runners

565
00:27:14,638 --> 00:27:19,118
Speaker 1: on first and second, and Tony Womack doubles down the

566
00:27:19,158 --> 00:27:22,198
Speaker 1: line off Mariano Rivera that ties the game and puts

567
00:27:22,278 --> 00:27:23,518
Speaker 1: runners on second third.

568
00:27:23,598 --> 00:27:24,758
Speaker 2: That set everything in motion.

569
00:27:24,878 --> 00:27:29,158
Speaker 1: So that's actually the hit as terms of changing the

570
00:27:29,198 --> 00:27:32,198
Speaker 1: outcome of the game in Game seven two thousand and one.

571
00:27:32,358 --> 00:27:36,278
Speaker 3: Tony Womack quietly really good player, really good player. I

572
00:27:36,318 --> 00:27:38,478
Speaker 3: remember exactly how long his career was, but I had

573
00:27:38,478 --> 00:27:39,358
Speaker 3: a lot of respect for him.

574
00:27:39,398 --> 00:27:39,878
Speaker 4: He played it right.

575
00:27:39,958 --> 00:27:42,878
Speaker 3: Mind me have Tony Phillips a little bit, but he

576
00:27:42,878 --> 00:27:45,478
Speaker 3: he really was a good baseball player, and yeah, I

577
00:27:45,478 --> 00:27:46,118
Speaker 3: could see him.

578
00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:46,918
Speaker 4: Coming through a big moment.

579
00:27:46,998 --> 00:27:49,958
Speaker 3: He was just it seemed like he was always under

580
00:27:49,958 --> 00:27:53,598
Speaker 3: control internally and just kind of a pin and a butt,

581
00:27:53,638 --> 00:27:55,118
Speaker 3: kind of a guy who was on the other side.

582
00:27:55,478 --> 00:27:58,078
Speaker 1: What's great about this list, Joe is listening to the

583
00:27:58,158 --> 00:28:01,638
Speaker 1: names we're bringing up here, and then Miguel Rojas, Bill Mazeroski,

584
00:28:01,798 --> 00:28:07,278
Speaker 1: Francisco Cabrera, Rajai David Salejandro Kirk, Tony Womack. Right, you

585
00:28:07,318 --> 00:28:11,278
Speaker 1: spend so much time worrying about shutting down the big guys,

586
00:28:11,318 --> 00:28:13,678
Speaker 1: and baseball just has a way of these guys rising

587
00:28:13,718 --> 00:28:17,758
Speaker 1: to the surface and becoming these just unforgettable parts of

588
00:28:17,758 --> 00:28:21,438
Speaker 1: baseball history. But at number two, I've got a classic

589
00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:24,718
Speaker 1: matchup where you going all the way back to nineteen twelve,

590
00:28:24,758 --> 00:28:29,558
Speaker 1: we talk about big names. Tris Speaker bagging against Christy Matthewson.

591
00:28:30,518 --> 00:28:35,118
Speaker 1: It's Game eight of the nineteen twelve World Series. Red

592
00:28:35,118 --> 00:28:37,438
Speaker 1: Sox are down two to one. It's the bottom of

593
00:28:37,438 --> 00:28:41,478
Speaker 1: the tenth inning, runners on first and second, one out,

594
00:28:41,638 --> 00:28:45,278
Speaker 1: and the Red Socks are down by one and Tris

595
00:28:45,318 --> 00:28:49,118
Speaker 1: Speaker gets a single off Christy Matthewson to tie the game.

596
00:28:49,358 --> 00:28:50,998
Speaker 1: It tie the game. Now they won the game on

597
00:28:51,038 --> 00:28:54,598
Speaker 1: a sacrifice fly two batters later. But that's number two

598
00:28:54,678 --> 00:28:57,678
Speaker 1: on the list. You talk about big matchups. Tris Speaker

599
00:28:57,718 --> 00:29:01,078
Speaker 1: against Christy Matthewson in the tenth inning of Game eight.

600
00:29:01,278 --> 00:29:03,038
Speaker 4: So Christy came out of the bullpen that game.

601
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,478
Speaker 3: I think he was still Oh no, he pitched all elevens, okay,

602
00:29:05,918 --> 00:29:07,078
Speaker 3: pitched all right.

603
00:29:07,718 --> 00:29:10,158
Speaker 4: It's the Jack Morris kind of a situation. Don't you

604
00:29:10,318 --> 00:29:10,598
Speaker 4: love that?

605
00:29:10,758 --> 00:29:13,078
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, I know,

606
00:29:13,158 --> 00:29:16,958
Speaker 3: I know, I know different all the above, but that

607
00:29:16,958 --> 00:29:19,878
Speaker 3: that truly would would you love to have the video

608
00:29:19,958 --> 00:29:22,158
Speaker 3: of that? I mean to pop that up there on

609
00:29:22,158 --> 00:29:24,478
Speaker 3: an annual basis, just to watch something like that, a

610
00:29:24,558 --> 00:29:28,398
Speaker 3: nice clear video watching because Christy Bouthews, if I remember correctly,

611
00:29:28,478 --> 00:29:31,598
Speaker 3: when he completed his delivery, his backfoot never came forward.

612
00:29:31,638 --> 00:29:33,238
Speaker 3: It kind of like stayed on the rubber state on

613
00:29:33,238 --> 00:29:35,798
Speaker 3: the ground. And when I first came in up into

614
00:29:35,838 --> 00:29:38,558
Speaker 3: the minor leagues as a player and a coach, eventually

615
00:29:39,078 --> 00:29:40,758
Speaker 3: a lot of guys taught that.

616
00:29:40,878 --> 00:29:43,598
Speaker 4: I mean, you'll pitching coaches when you do do that, when.

617
00:29:43,438 --> 00:29:45,758
Speaker 3: You keep your foot back like that, you're really able

618
00:29:45,798 --> 00:29:47,838
Speaker 3: to reach out in front a lot. Better get greater

619
00:29:47,918 --> 00:29:50,878
Speaker 3: extension out front and really make your wrists pop.

620
00:29:50,638 --> 00:29:51,078
Speaker 4: At the end.

621
00:29:51,118 --> 00:29:55,158
Speaker 3: So anyway, yes, so Christy did not come in relief.

622
00:29:55,198 --> 00:29:57,598
Speaker 3: He pitched all eleven innings right there, that's interesting.

623
00:29:57,918 --> 00:30:00,838
Speaker 1: And then at number one, and this will make you

624
00:30:01,718 --> 00:30:06,718
Speaker 1: question the methodology of a These greatest clutch hits of

625
00:30:06,758 --> 00:30:10,078
Speaker 1: all time is from Game seven to the nineteen sixty

626
00:30:10,118 --> 00:30:13,558
Speaker 1: World Series. But it's not Bill Mazarowski who's at number eight.

627
00:30:14,078 --> 00:30:17,998
Speaker 1: It's Hal Smith. Bottom of the eighth inning, the Pirates

628
00:30:17,998 --> 00:30:21,718
Speaker 1: are down seven to six to the Yankees. There's two

629
00:30:21,718 --> 00:30:23,638
Speaker 1: outs in the bottom of the eighth, they're down by one,

630
00:30:23,838 --> 00:30:26,478
Speaker 1: there's two runners on base, and Hal Smith hits a

631
00:30:26,478 --> 00:30:29,918
Speaker 1: three run homer, so he puts the Pirates up by

632
00:30:30,118 --> 00:30:34,038
Speaker 1: two going to the ninth inning. So just in terms

633
00:30:34,078 --> 00:30:36,758
Speaker 1: of the numerical value, if you will, of how it

634
00:30:37,158 --> 00:30:41,078
Speaker 1: hit changes or play changes the game, that's actually number

635
00:30:41,118 --> 00:30:43,478
Speaker 1: one all time. Of course, the Yankees tied the game

636
00:30:43,518 --> 00:30:45,438
Speaker 1: at the top of the ninth with two runs, and

637
00:30:45,478 --> 00:30:47,558
Speaker 1: then Mazarowski did his thing at the bottom of the inning.

638
00:30:48,918 --> 00:30:51,998
Speaker 1: But that you talk about being lost to history, it's

639
00:30:52,078 --> 00:30:56,638
Speaker 1: by when probability added the greatest play in baseball history.

640
00:30:57,238 --> 00:31:00,078
Speaker 1: And I guarantee you ask most fans you talk about

641
00:31:00,078 --> 00:31:02,398
Speaker 1: Game seven, nineteen sixty, it's Bill Mazarowski.

642
00:31:02,398 --> 00:31:04,278
Speaker 2: They're talking about, not How Smith and.

643
00:31:04,198 --> 00:31:06,878
Speaker 3: How Smith eventually became a Saint Louis Cardinal as a

644
00:31:06,878 --> 00:31:09,798
Speaker 3: third baseman. He was a very good third baseman and player. Yeah,

645
00:31:09,798 --> 00:31:12,438
Speaker 3: I kind of remember that, but I would not have

646
00:31:12,438 --> 00:31:14,318
Speaker 3: been able to recall it in a moment. The thing

647
00:31:14,318 --> 00:31:16,518
Speaker 3: that stands out to me about Mazarowski's home, and there's

648
00:31:16,518 --> 00:31:18,238
Speaker 3: a lot of photographs of that and the ball off

649
00:31:18,238 --> 00:31:20,358
Speaker 3: the bat, because that was a pretty good poke to

650
00:31:20,478 --> 00:31:23,638
Speaker 3: left field at at Forbes Field. I've been there on

651
00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:26,078
Speaker 3: the campus at Pitt and the wall is still there

652
00:31:26,198 --> 00:31:29,598
Speaker 3: now it's like an apartment complex, which I guess I

653
00:31:29,638 --> 00:31:31,838
Speaker 3: don't know, but it was such a I mean to me,

654
00:31:31,878 --> 00:31:33,678
Speaker 3: it's such an iconic place. They were kind of like

655
00:31:33,718 --> 00:31:36,598
Speaker 3: my second favorite team back in the day, primarily because

656
00:31:36,638 --> 00:31:39,798
Speaker 3: of their uniforms. I love their unigrams and I love

657
00:31:39,918 --> 00:31:43,918
Speaker 3: Roberto Clemente. But who was playing left field for the

658
00:31:43,998 --> 00:31:45,558
Speaker 3: Yankees when the ball went over the fence.

659
00:31:45,758 --> 00:31:49,358
Speaker 2: That was mister Yogi Bearra Right, watch you.

660
00:31:49,278 --> 00:31:50,358
Speaker 4: Watch Yogi going back.

661
00:31:50,398 --> 00:31:52,438
Speaker 3: You see them eight going back to the wall right there,

662
00:31:52,438 --> 00:31:55,358
Speaker 3: which I always thought was fascinating because we always believe,

663
00:31:55,398 --> 00:31:57,198
Speaker 3: you know, think of Yogi as being a catcher.

664
00:31:57,478 --> 00:31:59,198
Speaker 4: But believe me, folks, that was a pretty good poke.

665
00:31:59,238 --> 00:32:00,998
Speaker 3: And if you think I think, you look at the photograph,

666
00:32:01,078 --> 00:32:04,358
Speaker 3: Mazerowski's kind of choking up, I think Ralph Terry is pitching,

667
00:32:04,758 --> 00:32:06,678
Speaker 3: and Ralph Terry was a starter that was coming out

668
00:32:06,678 --> 00:32:09,198
Speaker 3: of the bullpen. I believe at that time that series

669
00:32:09,438 --> 00:32:12,918
Speaker 3: went back and forth with when the Yankees won, they

670
00:32:13,038 --> 00:32:15,278
Speaker 3: beat the crap out of the Pirates, and when the

671
00:32:15,318 --> 00:32:17,198
Speaker 3: Pirates went was always a very close game.

672
00:32:17,358 --> 00:32:18,558
Speaker 4: It was just one of those things.

673
00:32:18,598 --> 00:32:21,238
Speaker 3: So that was one of those dynamic Yankee teams, and

674
00:32:21,598 --> 00:32:25,238
Speaker 3: that all those little subplots in that ballpark. I wish

675
00:32:25,238 --> 00:32:28,158
Speaker 3: I'd actually seen it in person other than just photographs

676
00:32:28,198 --> 00:32:28,678
Speaker 3: from movies.

677
00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:32,558
Speaker 2: Yeah, what an amazing ballpark. It was a pitcher's park.

678
00:32:32,878 --> 00:32:36,678
Speaker 1: Center field was so deep they used to keep the

679
00:32:36,718 --> 00:32:40,398
Speaker 1: batting turtle the cage in center field. They didn't have

680
00:32:40,438 --> 00:32:43,638
Speaker 1: to store it because centerfield was so dog gone big.

681
00:32:44,518 --> 00:32:46,998
Speaker 1: And then Masarowski talked about even the left field he

682
00:32:47,078 --> 00:32:48,958
Speaker 1: hit the ball, it was more of a line drive.

683
00:32:49,038 --> 00:32:51,878
Speaker 2: I guess and listen, he was not a home run hitter.

684
00:32:52,398 --> 00:32:56,198
Speaker 1: And if you see the movies of ma breaking out

685
00:32:56,198 --> 00:32:57,518
Speaker 1: of the box, he's busting it.

686
00:32:57,598 --> 00:32:59,998
Speaker 2: He thinks that balls off the wall maybe for a double.

687
00:33:00,038 --> 00:33:02,398
Speaker 1: It wasn't until he got between first and second base

688
00:33:02,438 --> 00:33:04,518
Speaker 1: when he heard the crowd go nuts, like, oh, that

689
00:33:04,558 --> 00:33:09,158
Speaker 1: ball's out. He was flying around the bases. That wasn't

690
00:33:09,198 --> 00:33:10,398
Speaker 1: the standard admire it.

691
00:33:10,638 --> 00:33:12,358
Speaker 3: No, I mean that was the that was the method

692
00:33:12,398 --> 00:33:14,878
Speaker 3: of the day. I mean, nobody really stood around and

693
00:33:14,918 --> 00:33:17,318
Speaker 3: admired stuff. I guess maybe a couple of the big

694
00:33:17,358 --> 00:33:19,438
Speaker 3: boys Yankee Stadium, if they pulled.

695
00:33:19,278 --> 00:33:21,158
Speaker 4: One down the line, they knew, they knew.

696
00:33:21,998 --> 00:33:24,358
Speaker 3: But all those big ballparks, Connie Mack was the same way.

697
00:33:24,478 --> 00:33:26,478
Speaker 3: The turtle was in center field, the banning cage was

698
00:33:26,478 --> 00:33:27,038
Speaker 3: in centerfield.

699
00:33:27,038 --> 00:33:28,838
Speaker 4: They'd roll it out there after BP.

700
00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:31,198
Speaker 3: I think it was like four forty seven, And I

701
00:33:31,998 --> 00:33:35,118
Speaker 3: remember watching Dick Allen, one of my faves.

702
00:33:34,678 --> 00:33:36,598
Speaker 4: Going over that and over that wall.

703
00:33:36,638 --> 00:33:39,998
Speaker 3: Because the start the stands, the bleachers started almost like

704
00:33:40,118 --> 00:33:42,718
Speaker 3: dead center field and wrapped around the left and there

705
00:33:42,798 --> 00:33:45,958
Speaker 3: was kind of an opening there between center field, the

706
00:33:45,998 --> 00:33:48,878
Speaker 3: stands and left field and to the right field scoreboard,

707
00:33:49,078 --> 00:33:51,318
Speaker 3: which was really tall also, and I saw him bang

708
00:33:51,398 --> 00:33:54,318
Speaker 3: a couple off that. But back in the day, there's

709
00:33:54,318 --> 00:33:56,878
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. Equipment was left out there when

710
00:33:56,918 --> 00:33:58,038
Speaker 3: the when the ballpark was.

711
00:33:57,958 --> 00:33:59,598
Speaker 2: That deep, pretty cool stuff.

712
00:33:59,638 --> 00:34:03,598
Speaker 1: Talking about the greatest clutch hits in postseason history, according

713
00:34:03,638 --> 00:34:08,558
Speaker 1: to win Probability, added, Hey, listen, Joe, we're gonna take

714
00:34:08,558 --> 00:34:09,278
Speaker 1: a quick break.

715
00:34:09,918 --> 00:34:12,198
Speaker 2: You know about the ABS system that's coming this year, but.

716
00:34:12,158 --> 00:34:16,598
Speaker 1: There's another rule change in baseball this year that involves

717
00:34:17,278 --> 00:34:19,198
Speaker 1: the base coaches, and.

718
00:34:19,078 --> 00:34:20,718
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get your take on this one.

719
00:34:20,838 --> 00:34:32,798
Speaker 1: We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.

720
00:34:36,158 --> 00:34:37,598
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

721
00:34:37,598 --> 00:34:41,758
Speaker 1: I mentioned a rule change, and it actually began unofficially

722
00:34:41,758 --> 00:34:45,478
Speaker 1: in the postseason last year, where there was so much

723
00:34:45,638 --> 00:34:50,438
Speaker 1: talk about base coaches stealing signs and relaying them to

724
00:34:50,518 --> 00:34:52,878
Speaker 1: hitters or possibly to the runner out second relay it

725
00:34:52,918 --> 00:34:55,918
Speaker 1: to the hitter. And of course the Yankees were most

726
00:34:55,998 --> 00:34:58,598
Speaker 1: known for this. And wait there runners on second base.

727
00:34:58,678 --> 00:35:00,718
Speaker 1: I mean it looked like they were landing airplanes out

728
00:35:00,718 --> 00:35:02,158
Speaker 1: there on an aircraft carrier.

729
00:35:02,198 --> 00:35:02,798
Speaker 2: It was crazy.

730
00:35:04,438 --> 00:35:08,758
Speaker 1: So in the postseason, you know, baseball basically said we're

731
00:35:08,798 --> 00:35:13,078
Speaker 1: cracking down on getting coaches in the coaching box because

732
00:35:13,118 --> 00:35:15,838
Speaker 1: they would move farther down the line, and that way

733
00:35:15,878 --> 00:35:18,478
Speaker 1: they could get a grip or get a look at

734
00:35:18,518 --> 00:35:21,078
Speaker 1: the pitcher's grip how he came set, especially if you're

735
00:35:21,118 --> 00:35:23,038
Speaker 1: on the open side in some cases on the back

736
00:35:23,078 --> 00:35:26,878
Speaker 1: side of the picture, and through various ways of body

737
00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:27,558
Speaker 1: language and.

738
00:35:27,518 --> 00:35:29,838
Speaker 2: Whatnot, we're able to relay whatever they saw.

739
00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:33,398
Speaker 1: If they did see something to the hitter, that's gonna

740
00:35:33,478 --> 00:35:36,678
Speaker 1: end because it started the postseason, and I was there

741
00:35:36,718 --> 00:35:39,078
Speaker 1: in the World Series, Joe, where that the coaches were

742
00:35:39,118 --> 00:35:44,438
Speaker 1: told specifically get in the box, no more wandering out,

743
00:35:44,598 --> 00:35:47,958
Speaker 1: and the Blue Jays actually had made something of a

744
00:35:47,958 --> 00:35:51,918
Speaker 1: complaint that Chris Woodward, the Dodgers' first base coach, was

745
00:35:51,958 --> 00:35:54,118
Speaker 1: able to look at the grip of Max Scherzer in

746
00:35:54,158 --> 00:35:57,118
Speaker 1: the stretch position sures a if you remember, he likes

747
00:35:57,118 --> 00:35:59,318
Speaker 1: to come through a very high set where it's easy

748
00:35:59,438 --> 00:36:00,998
Speaker 1: kind of to see where his hands are on the

749
00:36:01,398 --> 00:36:04,558
Speaker 1: baseball if you have the right angle. And actually there

750
00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:07,838
Speaker 1: was later on in that game, after the umpires cracked

751
00:36:07,878 --> 00:36:11,398
Speaker 1: down on this, Freddy Freeman hit a line drive that

752
00:36:11,878 --> 00:36:15,118
Speaker 1: barely missed Chris Woodward at first base. So I'd spoke

753
00:36:15,118 --> 00:36:17,238
Speaker 1: with him about this in spring training and he said, listen,

754
00:36:17,318 --> 00:36:20,558
Speaker 1: I understand, and I like the fact that everybody's playing

755
00:36:20,678 --> 00:36:23,078
Speaker 1: by the same rules, he said, but there's a lot

756
00:36:23,078 --> 00:36:25,078
Speaker 1: of coaches out there who are a little bit older

757
00:36:25,078 --> 00:36:28,118
Speaker 1: and not as mobile as me. It's actually a dangerous

758
00:36:28,158 --> 00:36:31,638
Speaker 1: position with the way guys swing the bat now and

759
00:36:32,038 --> 00:36:33,918
Speaker 1: you know, Joe, you've been out there on the baselines,

760
00:36:33,998 --> 00:36:37,598
Speaker 1: these chasers, sometimes these line drives. It's almost impossible to

761
00:36:37,598 --> 00:36:40,558
Speaker 1: get out of the way of those. So he was saying,

762
00:36:40,798 --> 00:36:45,718
Speaker 1: what they should do is just monitor coaches behavior, like

763
00:36:45,758 --> 00:36:49,438
Speaker 1: if they see they're doing anything to relay signs, and

764
00:36:49,478 --> 00:36:50,878
Speaker 1: you can do that from an eye in the sky

765
00:36:50,958 --> 00:36:53,838
Speaker 1: with a camera or whatever, then they basically call him

766
00:36:53,878 --> 00:36:56,238
Speaker 1: out and say knock it off. But he thinks there's

767
00:36:56,238 --> 00:36:59,718
Speaker 1: a safety issue at play here. I'm wondering what your

768
00:36:59,758 --> 00:37:02,598
Speaker 1: take is, if this is something that nobody should worry about,

769
00:37:02,678 --> 00:37:05,238
Speaker 1: not a big deal. I actually like the fact that

770
00:37:05,638 --> 00:37:07,958
Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that coaches are able to

771
00:37:07,998 --> 00:37:10,358
Speaker 1: pick up signs like this, and so I'm okay with

772
00:37:10,398 --> 00:37:11,878
Speaker 1: a system that cracks down on it.

773
00:37:12,198 --> 00:37:15,918
Speaker 3: They close the borders, right, I listen, it is dangerous

774
00:37:15,918 --> 00:37:19,838
Speaker 3: down there. I when you're when you're coaching a base

775
00:37:20,358 --> 00:37:23,318
Speaker 3: either side, and I did both sides. When you have

776
00:37:23,358 --> 00:37:27,518
Speaker 3: a strong pool hitter and you know the pitcher maybe

777
00:37:27,518 --> 00:37:29,918
Speaker 3: doesn't have the best fastball, he throws a lot of

778
00:37:29,918 --> 00:37:32,518
Speaker 3: sinkers down and in whatever it gets, it could get

779
00:37:32,598 --> 00:37:35,278
Speaker 3: kind of scary down here. Trust me, it really can.

780
00:37:35,998 --> 00:37:39,718
Speaker 3: Having said all that, you know, I know what he's saying.

781
00:37:39,838 --> 00:37:41,718
Speaker 3: You know the monitoring, But I'll tell you what. You

782
00:37:41,718 --> 00:37:45,518
Speaker 3: could be so subtle in your sign giving that it's

783
00:37:45,558 --> 00:37:48,198
Speaker 3: almost imperceptible sometimes, and it would be hard.

784
00:37:48,238 --> 00:37:49,078
Speaker 4: I think it'd be hard.

785
00:37:48,958 --> 00:37:51,918
Speaker 3: To prove if you're going to permit the latitude that

786
00:37:52,358 --> 00:37:55,918
Speaker 3: the coach is still not doing something to relate to

787
00:37:55,958 --> 00:37:57,398
Speaker 3: the to the hitter. And a lot of times just

788
00:37:57,478 --> 00:37:59,998
Speaker 3: the open side, like the first base coach would primarily

789
00:38:00,038 --> 00:38:01,918
Speaker 3: be able to help her right handed hitter. It's it's

790
00:38:01,958 --> 00:38:04,158
Speaker 3: not as easy to relate the signs beyond that to

791
00:38:04,238 --> 00:38:07,118
Speaker 3: the third base coach to a left handed hitter, So

792
00:38:07,598 --> 00:38:08,878
Speaker 3: it gets kind of complicated.

793
00:38:08,918 --> 00:38:14,998
Speaker 4: But yes, it's it can be dangerous. I still see.

794
00:38:15,038 --> 00:38:17,878
Speaker 3: I stink you could still steal signs even if you're

795
00:38:17,878 --> 00:38:20,678
Speaker 3: in the regular spot too. It's just when you when

796
00:38:20,718 --> 00:38:23,158
Speaker 3: you move to a different spot, it may open up

797
00:38:23,198 --> 00:38:25,278
Speaker 3: different pitches to you. The thing we used to like

798
00:38:25,318 --> 00:38:27,958
Speaker 3: to do is steal signs from the dugout. I mean,

799
00:38:27,998 --> 00:38:29,558
Speaker 3: I don't know where they're at right now because I

800
00:38:29,598 --> 00:38:31,438
Speaker 3: haven't done it in a while, but I always used

801
00:38:31,478 --> 00:38:33,558
Speaker 3: to look at the bench coach has ever given signs

802
00:38:33,558 --> 00:38:36,718
Speaker 3: to the catcher regarding throwovers or not. And that was

803
00:38:36,758 --> 00:38:39,678
Speaker 3: a big part of the Angels ability when I was

804
00:38:39,678 --> 00:38:42,238
Speaker 3: there to steal bases or run at the right time,

805
00:38:42,238 --> 00:38:44,358
Speaker 3: because we knew they weren't thrown over, so we get

806
00:38:44,398 --> 00:38:46,758
Speaker 3: more aggressive with our leads. So to me, it was

807
00:38:46,758 --> 00:38:49,878
Speaker 3: always was my responsibility to try to get the third

808
00:38:49,878 --> 00:38:52,718
Speaker 3: base coaches signs and when if I I mean the

809
00:38:52,758 --> 00:38:55,598
Speaker 3: bench coach signs, if I could, I would relay it

810
00:38:55,198 --> 00:38:58,438
Speaker 3: from me to Rags at third base Ronnie Rennicky and

811
00:38:58,558 --> 00:39:00,998
Speaker 3: Rags would lean right prior to the pitch, and if

812
00:39:01,038 --> 00:39:02,878
Speaker 3: you would lean, that would tell the run at first

813
00:39:02,878 --> 00:39:05,998
Speaker 3: base go ahead and go they're not throwing over Premium

814
00:39:05,998 --> 00:39:08,398
Speaker 3: at first base. Alfredo Griffin was really good at picking

815
00:39:08,438 --> 00:39:11,318
Speaker 3: up what you're talking about, rips and things of that nature,

816
00:39:11,718 --> 00:39:12,598
Speaker 3: and he could see.

817
00:39:12,438 --> 00:39:15,918
Speaker 4: Different things with that. And again regarding telling.

818
00:39:15,998 --> 00:39:17,598
Speaker 3: He could actually tell the runner to go we he

819
00:39:17,638 --> 00:39:20,078
Speaker 3: had that kind of carte blaunch. And then the other

820
00:39:20,118 --> 00:39:22,758
Speaker 3: thing I picked up, remember it was it James Baldwin.

821
00:39:22,798 --> 00:39:24,558
Speaker 3: I'm not the author, but the picture for the White

822
00:39:24,558 --> 00:39:25,078
Speaker 3: Sox wasn't.

823
00:39:25,198 --> 00:39:27,118
Speaker 2: Yeah, the right handed pitcher, Yeah, he's.

824
00:39:26,998 --> 00:39:29,798
Speaker 3: The first guy that showed me width of your feet.

825
00:39:29,838 --> 00:39:33,158
Speaker 3: As a coach at first base, some guys would get

826
00:39:33,838 --> 00:39:36,838
Speaker 3: wider with their feet. I'm talking about writings in particular,

827
00:39:36,918 --> 00:39:39,118
Speaker 3: when they're coming over to first base. They get narrower

828
00:39:39,158 --> 00:39:41,158
Speaker 3: when they were going to home plate. So it always

829
00:39:41,158 --> 00:39:42,838
Speaker 3: looked for wide and narrow kind of keys from my

830
00:39:42,918 --> 00:39:45,878
Speaker 3: runners at first base. So there's other things to look at.

831
00:39:46,198 --> 00:39:47,838
Speaker 3: You know, left handed pitcher could be a little bit

832
00:39:47,838 --> 00:39:50,798
Speaker 3: more nasty or difficult to ascertain when he was coming over.

833
00:39:51,198 --> 00:39:52,838
Speaker 3: So these are the kind of things that would help

834
00:39:52,918 --> 00:39:56,958
Speaker 3: running game. We're talking about pitch selection specifically. Yeah, there's

835
00:39:56,998 --> 00:39:59,238
Speaker 3: some guys. I know that Wes Western could do it

836
00:39:59,238 --> 00:40:01,078
Speaker 3: from the dugout, and he did it a lot from

837
00:40:01,118 --> 00:40:03,478
Speaker 3: first base when he was the first base coach for

838
00:40:03,518 --> 00:40:05,878
Speaker 3: the Giants, for Willie Mays and William McCovey calling pitches

839
00:40:05,878 --> 00:40:06,518
Speaker 3: and home runs.

840
00:40:06,598 --> 00:40:08,598
Speaker 4: It's an art. It's an art for him. Not everybody

841
00:40:08,598 --> 00:40:09,038
Speaker 4: can do it.

842
00:40:09,358 --> 00:40:12,118
Speaker 3: I think the seed of doubt when you could put

843
00:40:12,158 --> 00:40:14,318
Speaker 3: that in another team's heads and all of a sudden

844
00:40:14,318 --> 00:40:18,038
Speaker 3: you make them trying to become more covert and increase

845
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:19,678
Speaker 3: the number of signs are giving. It can lead to

846
00:40:19,678 --> 00:40:22,318
Speaker 3: confusion things like that. There's there's all these little games

847
00:40:22,358 --> 00:40:25,278
Speaker 3: going on within the game. So yes, long answer, put

848
00:40:25,318 --> 00:40:27,718
Speaker 3: him back in the box. As a coach, you got

849
00:40:27,718 --> 00:40:29,518
Speaker 3: to really learn how to if you if you've been

850
00:40:29,518 --> 00:40:31,518
Speaker 3: good at this, you got to like readjust your sites

851
00:40:31,758 --> 00:40:33,478
Speaker 3: and figure out how to do it from not being

852
00:40:33,598 --> 00:40:36,398
Speaker 3: so far down the line. Some guys, like a catcher

853
00:40:36,478 --> 00:40:38,878
Speaker 3: sometimes puts his signs so low you could see his

854
00:40:38,958 --> 00:40:41,878
Speaker 3: fingers poking out from underneath, and you can see if

855
00:40:41,918 --> 00:40:42,558
Speaker 3: he wiggles or not.

856
00:40:42,638 --> 00:40:42,798
Speaker 4: Rs.

857
00:40:42,838 --> 00:40:46,158
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of stuff going on there that really

858
00:40:46,198 --> 00:40:47,718
Speaker 3: good guys are able to pick up on.

859
00:40:47,958 --> 00:40:49,958
Speaker 4: So but there is a danger involved.

860
00:40:50,038 --> 00:40:52,558
Speaker 3: There is a danger involved, and maybe the danger alone

861
00:40:52,558 --> 00:40:56,078
Speaker 3: should prevent guys from looking at the picture and nuts

862
00:40:56,118 --> 00:40:57,718
Speaker 3: and need to look more at to hitter at the

863
00:40:57,718 --> 00:40:58,638
Speaker 3: home at home plate.

864
00:40:58,958 --> 00:41:01,038
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm okay with keeping these guys in the box.

865
00:41:01,118 --> 00:41:03,438
Speaker 1: Like I said, They've got all these analysts now looking

866
00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:06,878
Speaker 1: at video trying to determine what the tails are. To picture,

867
00:41:07,078 --> 00:41:09,598
Speaker 1: the coach goes in there with that information and then

868
00:41:09,638 --> 00:41:12,038
Speaker 1: he tries to, you know, wander down the line, peer

869
00:41:12,078 --> 00:41:14,278
Speaker 1: into the glove, whatever, and pick that up and then

870
00:41:14,318 --> 00:41:17,438
Speaker 1: relay it. I'd read much rather keep the game in

871
00:41:17,438 --> 00:41:20,718
Speaker 1: the hands of the players. But Joe, give our listeners

872
00:41:20,758 --> 00:41:23,958
Speaker 1: an idea. If if I'm coaching first base and I

873
00:41:24,038 --> 00:41:27,158
Speaker 1: do see something, how can I relay it to the hitter?

874
00:41:27,278 --> 00:41:30,478
Speaker 1: Is a matter of simply you know, hands on knees

875
00:41:30,558 --> 00:41:33,518
Speaker 1: or hands on hip off speed fastball something.

876
00:41:33,598 --> 00:41:36,838
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be, Yes, it could be something that easy.

877
00:41:37,518 --> 00:41:39,838
Speaker 3: It could be like I said, standing up, like like

878
00:41:39,878 --> 00:41:42,998
Speaker 3: you're saying, bend over, hands on knees. It could be

879
00:41:43,078 --> 00:41:45,638
Speaker 3: like just the way he turns his body, just the

880
00:41:45,678 --> 00:41:47,278
Speaker 3: way he has his head. I mean, he could actually

881
00:41:47,318 --> 00:41:50,598
Speaker 3: be looking away from home plate intentionally or looking at

882
00:41:50,678 --> 00:41:53,478
Speaker 3: home plate intentionally. And looking at home plate intentionally might

883
00:41:53,518 --> 00:41:56,398
Speaker 3: be he doesn't know and looking away means I got it,

884
00:41:56,398 --> 00:41:56,678
Speaker 3: and that.

885
00:41:56,598 --> 00:41:59,958
Speaker 4: Could mean something specifically. It's very it's very easy to do.

886
00:42:00,038 --> 00:42:03,358
Speaker 3: I mean, like, how about for my coaches, my signs

887
00:42:03,398 --> 00:42:07,198
Speaker 3: for for me to my third base coach for years,

888
00:42:07,238 --> 00:42:08,718
Speaker 3: was I would put it. I would put on an

889
00:42:08,758 --> 00:42:11,118
Speaker 3: active sign and then put it on hold. In other words,

890
00:42:11,118 --> 00:42:12,838
Speaker 3: i'd put the hit and run on sign on a

891
00:42:12,918 --> 00:42:15,158
Speaker 3: zero zero account, and of course I was not doing

892
00:42:15,158 --> 00:42:17,358
Speaker 3: that on that particular account, so I'd put a hold

893
00:42:17,398 --> 00:42:19,918
Speaker 3: sign on. So I would put this sign active sign

894
00:42:19,958 --> 00:42:22,398
Speaker 3: on on the first pitch, and then I would put

895
00:42:22,398 --> 00:42:25,598
Speaker 3: it on hold so that I could disguise my signs

896
00:42:25,598 --> 00:42:28,838
Speaker 3: moving further into the at bat. So I would give

897
00:42:28,878 --> 00:42:31,118
Speaker 3: Tom Foley the sign and I would put it on hold,

898
00:42:31,678 --> 00:42:33,598
Speaker 3: and then he would look in on the next pitch

899
00:42:33,678 --> 00:42:36,118
Speaker 3: and I might be talking to my bench coach, but

900
00:42:36,158 --> 00:42:37,918
Speaker 3: I didn't put it back on hold. That means the

901
00:42:37,958 --> 00:42:42,478
Speaker 3: sign became active. Really a way to disguise your signs

902
00:42:42,518 --> 00:42:46,238
Speaker 3: from the bench to the field, where the other side,

903
00:42:46,238 --> 00:42:47,798
Speaker 3: if they're really trying to look at you, as somebody

904
00:42:48,078 --> 00:42:50,598
Speaker 3: analytically trying to look at you, they're going, damn, he

905
00:42:50,638 --> 00:42:52,638
Speaker 3: didn't do anything on that one. I got all that

906
00:42:52,678 --> 00:42:54,638
Speaker 3: from Gene Mock. How about that. Gene taught me that

907
00:42:54,678 --> 00:42:57,598
Speaker 3: back in the eighties. So there's so many different ways

908
00:42:57,598 --> 00:43:01,558
Speaker 3: to disguise what you're doing, and it actually could change.

909
00:43:02,198 --> 00:43:04,958
Speaker 3: Kyle Ripken used to call pitches from short stop. He

910
00:43:05,038 --> 00:43:06,958
Speaker 3: used to call all the pictures for the Orioles pitchers

911
00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:09,238
Speaker 3: through like when Hoyles was the catcher, and he had

912
00:43:09,278 --> 00:43:12,158
Speaker 3: all these different methods of moving and sometimes I think

913
00:43:12,198 --> 00:43:14,198
Speaker 3: I had it, and then he would change during the

914
00:43:14,238 --> 00:43:14,798
Speaker 3: course of the game.

915
00:43:14,838 --> 00:43:15,558
Speaker 4: And that's what you could do.

916
00:43:15,598 --> 00:43:17,758
Speaker 3: You could change the key during the course of the game,

917
00:43:17,878 --> 00:43:20,718
Speaker 3: very subtly. So that's what makes it difficult. It could

918
00:43:20,718 --> 00:43:22,398
Speaker 3: be something the easiest thing in the world if you're

919
00:43:22,398 --> 00:43:25,238
Speaker 3: looking at the guy. But if it's that subtle and

920
00:43:25,278 --> 00:43:28,118
Speaker 3: you could change it that easily, then.

921
00:43:27,998 --> 00:43:31,918
Speaker 4: You really don't know. And when you don't know for sure.

922
00:43:31,838 --> 00:43:35,638
Speaker 3: To relay a sign to anybody becomes problematic because at

923
00:43:35,638 --> 00:43:38,518
Speaker 3: the time you're wrong all of a sudden, people whose

924
00:43:38,878 --> 00:43:40,518
Speaker 3: trust in the in the in the sign giver.

925
00:43:41,078 --> 00:43:43,838
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's always the downside, right when you're wrong.

926
00:43:43,958 --> 00:43:44,438
Speaker 2: Reminds me.

927
00:43:45,198 --> 00:43:47,278
Speaker 1: Greg Maddox back in the day, was pitching against the

928
00:43:47,318 --> 00:43:49,878
Speaker 1: Giants and for some reason they thought they had his

929
00:43:49,998 --> 00:43:53,838
Speaker 1: pitches and there would be whistling from the dugout when

930
00:43:53,838 --> 00:43:58,518
Speaker 1: he threw his change up. Maddix figured this out and actually,

931
00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:00,798
Speaker 1: I forget who his catcher was at the time figured

932
00:44:00,798 --> 00:44:03,598
Speaker 1: out we're going to cross him up, and whatever they

933
00:44:03,598 --> 00:44:05,878
Speaker 1: were donning, they led the Giants to believe it was

934
00:44:05,878 --> 00:44:07,718
Speaker 1: going to be a change up. He had the whistle,

935
00:44:07,838 --> 00:44:10,598
Speaker 1: Eddie threw a fastball in buzz the guy off the plate.

936
00:44:11,358 --> 00:44:12,478
Speaker 2: So that's the downside.

937
00:44:12,478 --> 00:44:14,518
Speaker 1: What do you think you have the signs and someone's

938
00:44:14,518 --> 00:44:16,838
Speaker 1: onto you having the signs, it could be dangerous.

939
00:44:17,038 --> 00:44:19,198
Speaker 4: He'd be really dangerous. And that's that's the whole thing

940
00:44:19,238 --> 00:44:19,638
Speaker 4: about it.

941
00:44:20,598 --> 00:44:23,238
Speaker 3: There are certain guys that are really, really good at this,

942
00:44:23,278 --> 00:44:26,478
Speaker 3: and there's also the guys that cry wolf all the time.

943
00:44:26,518 --> 00:44:28,518
Speaker 3: I got him, I got him, I got I got it,

944
00:44:28,598 --> 00:44:29,078
Speaker 3: I got him.

945
00:44:29,078 --> 00:44:29,838
Speaker 4: I understand, you know.

946
00:44:29,878 --> 00:44:32,318
Speaker 3: And you hear that all the time too, which becomes annoying.

947
00:44:32,838 --> 00:44:35,758
Speaker 3: So I've been around some really good signed Steelers. Jimmy

948
00:44:35,798 --> 00:44:37,958
Speaker 3: Edmonds was good, Eddie Eddie Perez was really good.

949
00:44:38,438 --> 00:44:39,078
Speaker 4: Like I said, was.

950
00:44:39,358 --> 00:44:41,318
Speaker 3: I sat next to West Western for years as a

951
00:44:41,358 --> 00:44:45,398
Speaker 3: scout at Packard Stadium when I was in the nineteen eighties,

952
00:44:45,398 --> 00:44:48,278
Speaker 3: and he would call pitches from we were sitting up

953
00:44:48,278 --> 00:44:50,558
Speaker 3: in the stands. He's scotten for the Braves, I'm with

954
00:44:50,638 --> 00:44:53,718
Speaker 3: the Angels, and he would call like Kenda Carter's pitches.

955
00:44:53,718 --> 00:44:55,998
Speaker 3: I think I've talked about this before, and it was

956
00:44:56,078 --> 00:44:58,478
Speaker 3: uncanny how he could pick up on I don't know,

957
00:44:58,758 --> 00:45:00,998
Speaker 3: stuff that he saw that I could really could not

958
00:45:01,118 --> 00:45:04,358
Speaker 3: slow down enough to pick up on it enough. So

959
00:45:04,718 --> 00:45:07,278
Speaker 3: it is an art form. It should be part of

960
00:45:07,318 --> 00:45:09,278
Speaker 3: the game. Sign stealing should be part of the game.

961
00:45:09,358 --> 00:45:11,358
Speaker 3: It is part of the game. I'm talking about the

962
00:45:11,358 --> 00:45:13,558
Speaker 3: old fashioned way through observation.

963
00:45:14,718 --> 00:45:15,598
Speaker 4: I was taught by.

964
00:45:15,478 --> 00:45:18,278
Speaker 3: Preston Gomez to steal signs from a third base coach,

965
00:45:18,598 --> 00:45:20,718
Speaker 3: to always watch where he goes with this first touch.

966
00:45:21,158 --> 00:45:24,358
Speaker 3: I used to actually mark down first touches all season long.

967
00:45:24,438 --> 00:45:25,038
Speaker 4: I'd have a.

968
00:45:25,078 --> 00:45:27,078
Speaker 3: Chart with the body on it and I'd put a

969
00:45:27,438 --> 00:45:30,238
Speaker 3: dot dot where did he start, and if he started

970
00:45:30,278 --> 00:45:33,318
Speaker 3: there and there was action, I would circle that. That

971
00:45:33,798 --> 00:45:37,678
Speaker 3: was Preston Gomez's information to me in order to do that.

972
00:45:37,798 --> 00:45:39,718
Speaker 3: So these are the kind of things that were passed

973
00:45:39,758 --> 00:45:42,078
Speaker 3: down for years, and I went through a period in

974
00:45:42,118 --> 00:45:42,798
Speaker 3: the late nineties.

975
00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:44,078
Speaker 4: I got kind of lucky.

976
00:45:44,118 --> 00:45:46,038
Speaker 3: I got on a street and it was all because

977
00:45:46,158 --> 00:45:48,038
Speaker 3: I'm talking about pitching out at the right time, which

978
00:45:48,078 --> 00:45:51,958
Speaker 3: nobody does anymore. But that was all through Preston's information.

979
00:45:52,078 --> 00:45:54,958
Speaker 3: To me. And again, it's a beautiful part of the game.

980
00:45:54,998 --> 00:45:59,038
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about utilizing technology. I'm talking about guys

981
00:45:59,038 --> 00:46:01,478
Speaker 3: getting lazy in regards to their sign giving and it

982
00:46:01,518 --> 00:46:04,238
Speaker 3: makes it somewhat easier for the other time to pick

983
00:46:04,318 --> 00:46:05,998
Speaker 3: up on it. And that is an art form and

984
00:46:05,998 --> 00:46:06,998
Speaker 3: that should be part of the game.

985
00:46:07,318 --> 00:46:10,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely love that part of the game. Inside baseball,

986
00:46:11,238 --> 00:46:15,198
Speaker 1: truly inside baseball. We've reached ourt ninth inning. Joe, it's

987
00:46:15,238 --> 00:46:16,598
Speaker 1: time to hand you the ball. Now, what do you

988
00:46:16,718 --> 00:46:19,878
Speaker 1: got for us this time? To end this episode of

989
00:46:19,918 --> 00:46:20,718
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

990
00:46:20,998 --> 00:46:23,438
Speaker 3: You know, I was just thinking about the season itself,

991
00:46:23,438 --> 00:46:25,438
Speaker 3: and then I was thinking about the game itself. I mean,

992
00:46:26,038 --> 00:46:27,638
Speaker 3: you know, playing it every day of the game, within

993
00:46:27,678 --> 00:46:32,558
Speaker 3: the game, the August twelfth, May seventeenth, to whatever the day,

994
00:46:32,958 --> 00:46:36,518
Speaker 3: and then again here comes twenty twenty six. Though no

995
00:46:36,558 --> 00:46:38,478
Speaker 3: one can go back and make a brand new start,

996
00:46:38,558 --> 00:46:41,358
Speaker 3: anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.

997
00:46:41,558 --> 00:46:44,238
Speaker 3: You know, you always get caught up intemniu whether you start,

998
00:46:44,438 --> 00:46:46,198
Speaker 3: you know, two three bogies in a row, then all

999
00:46:46,198 --> 00:46:48,758
Speaker 3: of a sudden you get on a nice roll. So

1000
00:46:49,198 --> 00:46:51,438
Speaker 3: you can't necessarily make a brand new start. But if

1001
00:46:51,478 --> 00:46:54,318
Speaker 3: you process the information well. And if you're able to

1002
00:46:54,358 --> 00:46:56,718
Speaker 3: slow things down, I have enough confidence in yourself and

1003
00:46:57,558 --> 00:46:59,558
Speaker 3: with the process and your and your culture of what

1004
00:46:59,598 --> 00:47:02,358
Speaker 3: you're doing, you could create a brand new ending. And

1005
00:47:02,398 --> 00:47:04,998
Speaker 3: that's I kind of like that. I think you have

1006
00:47:05,078 --> 00:47:07,918
Speaker 3: to really UH teams have to understand that.

1007
00:47:08,158 --> 00:47:08,278
Speaker 4: UH.

1008
00:47:08,678 --> 00:47:10,998
Speaker 3: Players have to understand on a daily basis. Just in

1009
00:47:11,078 --> 00:47:13,438
Speaker 3: the game, oh for three, first three at bats, that

1010
00:47:13,438 --> 00:47:14,838
Speaker 3: doesn't mean the fourth that bat is going to be

1011
00:47:14,838 --> 00:47:17,958
Speaker 3: oh for four. Go to the batting cage or batting

1012
00:47:17,998 --> 00:47:22,278
Speaker 3: practice before the game. God, I feel horrible. Nothing feels right.

1013
00:47:23,358 --> 00:47:24,478
Speaker 3: And you go in the game and get two or

1014
00:47:24,478 --> 00:47:26,558
Speaker 3: three Knox pitchers come out of the bullpen.

1015
00:47:26,638 --> 00:47:27,438
Speaker 4: What do they got? They got?

1016
00:47:27,478 --> 00:47:29,998
Speaker 3: He had nothing, man, he had nothing down there, And

1017
00:47:30,038 --> 00:47:31,718
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you're shaking his hand in the

1018
00:47:31,798 --> 00:47:35,798
Speaker 3: ninth inning walking off the mound. So it starts one thing,

1019
00:47:35,838 --> 00:47:37,958
Speaker 3: But you gotta always create. And I'm a big I'm

1020
00:47:37,958 --> 00:47:40,118
Speaker 3: big into good starts, and I'm talking about that for

1021
00:47:40,158 --> 00:47:42,558
Speaker 3: the season. But when things don't always go your way

1022
00:47:42,558 --> 00:47:45,958
Speaker 3: in the beginning, make a better ending. And I think

1023
00:47:47,558 --> 00:47:50,758
Speaker 3: it really pertains to the game itself on a daily basis,

1024
00:47:50,758 --> 00:47:53,398
Speaker 3: and it pertains to the season. You know, you're reading

1025
00:47:53,438 --> 00:47:55,798
Speaker 3: about teams that have opportunity right now those who do not.

1026
00:47:55,838 --> 00:47:57,278
Speaker 4: We just talked about the Angels.

1027
00:47:57,598 --> 00:48:00,758
Speaker 3: How do I create a great start and if I

1028
00:48:00,798 --> 00:48:03,678
Speaker 3: can't seasons in progress, how do I create a better ending?

1029
00:48:04,118 --> 00:48:06,198
Speaker 3: And again that comes down to culture, the ability to

1030
00:48:06,198 --> 00:48:09,798
Speaker 3: make adjustments on the fly, all the things that really

1031
00:48:10,198 --> 00:48:13,078
Speaker 3: helped Dodgers last year, you know, pedestrian in a sense,

1032
00:48:13,238 --> 00:48:14,278
Speaker 3: and eventually looked.

1033
00:48:14,078 --> 00:48:14,918
Speaker 4: What they did at the end.

1034
00:48:16,078 --> 00:48:19,198
Speaker 3: It just if you really have mental toughness, this is

1035
00:48:19,518 --> 00:48:21,398
Speaker 3: this is a concept you would understand.

1036
00:48:21,878 --> 00:48:24,318
Speaker 2: I love that concept. I've not heard that before, Joe.

1037
00:48:24,438 --> 00:48:26,078
Speaker 1: That really, when you think about it, you have one

1038
00:48:26,118 --> 00:48:28,598
Speaker 1: opportunity to get off to a great start, but you

1039
00:48:28,678 --> 00:48:31,878
Speaker 1: have numerous opportunities to forge a great ending.

1040
00:48:31,958 --> 00:48:34,078
Speaker 2: And he just made me think when you mentioned the Dodgers.

1041
00:48:34,398 --> 00:48:36,598
Speaker 1: I was just talking to Miguel Rojas in spring training

1042
00:48:37,318 --> 00:48:39,518
Speaker 1: and he talked about, you know, leading up to that

1043
00:48:39,558 --> 00:48:41,918
Speaker 1: Game seven home run, of course, he hadn't played in

1044
00:48:41,918 --> 00:48:44,918
Speaker 1: three weeks, hadn't started the game in three weeks, and

1045
00:48:45,078 --> 00:48:48,318
Speaker 1: after Game five the Dodgers lose their one loss.

1046
00:48:48,038 --> 00:48:49,478
Speaker 2: Away from being eliminated.

1047
00:48:50,678 --> 00:48:53,718
Speaker 1: He sat in the dugout for twenty minutes after the game,

1048
00:48:54,518 --> 00:48:56,638
Speaker 1: and he told me the reason he did that was

1049
00:48:56,638 --> 00:48:58,638
Speaker 1: because he thought that was the end of his career

1050
00:48:58,758 --> 00:49:00,878
Speaker 1: and that would be the last time he would wear

1051
00:49:00,918 --> 00:49:04,718
Speaker 1: those Dodger whites. And he has love being a Dodger,

1052
00:49:04,798 --> 00:49:07,638
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that. So for twenty minutes he

1053
00:49:07,798 --> 00:49:10,918
Speaker 1: just reflected on his career and just didn't want to

1054
00:49:10,918 --> 00:49:12,598
Speaker 1: take one of the wait as long as he could

1055
00:49:12,598 --> 00:49:15,318
Speaker 1: to take off his whites, Dodger white home uniform, one

1056
00:49:15,358 --> 00:49:18,558
Speaker 1: of the classic uniforms in all of baseball. Finally, he

1057
00:49:18,638 --> 00:49:22,078
Speaker 1: gets back to his locker and there's a text on

1058
00:49:22,118 --> 00:49:25,638
Speaker 1: his phone and it's from Dave Roberts, and the text says,

1059
00:49:25,998 --> 00:49:28,518
Speaker 1: you're in there at second base for Game six. And

1060
00:49:28,558 --> 00:49:31,478
Speaker 1: as I said, Dave Roberts said, there was no way

1061
00:49:31,598 --> 00:49:34,678
Speaker 1: he could live with himself losing the World Series without

1062
00:49:34,718 --> 00:49:36,878
Speaker 1: giving one of his glue guys a chance to start

1063
00:49:36,918 --> 00:49:39,718
Speaker 1: a World Series game. And the guy winds up saving

1064
00:49:39,758 --> 00:49:44,678
Speaker 1: their season with completely unexpected home run in the bottom

1065
00:49:44,678 --> 00:49:47,118
Speaker 1: of the nineth inning of Game seven of the World Series.

1066
00:49:47,318 --> 00:49:48,358
Speaker 2: Just crazy stuff.

1067
00:49:48,398 --> 00:49:50,598
Speaker 1: I love the fact that the manager trusted his gut

1068
00:49:50,638 --> 00:49:53,318
Speaker 1: at that point and more than paid off.

1069
00:49:53,358 --> 00:49:54,518
Speaker 2: In Game seven, I.

1070
00:49:54,478 --> 00:49:58,158
Speaker 3: Just love the antithetical analytical player right there. I mean,

1071
00:49:58,198 --> 00:50:01,198
Speaker 3: the guy that just is a baseball guy probably doesn't

1072
00:50:01,238 --> 00:50:05,638
Speaker 3: fit too many analysis really well well other than his defense,

1073
00:50:05,678 --> 00:50:07,398
Speaker 3: which is really and he listening as a clutch hit

1074
00:50:07,478 --> 00:50:07,678
Speaker 3: or two.

1075
00:50:07,758 --> 00:50:10,038
Speaker 4: And he I just think he's a good baseball player.

1076
00:50:10,078 --> 00:50:13,038
Speaker 4: I loved him in Miami. I thought, damn, this guy.

1077
00:50:14,158 --> 00:50:16,278
Speaker 3: He's the kind of guy that if you have him

1078
00:50:16,278 --> 00:50:19,878
Speaker 3: on a daily basis, you really do appreciate it. It's

1079
00:50:19,918 --> 00:50:24,598
Speaker 3: great that Dave David chose that moment to shift gears,

1080
00:50:25,518 --> 00:50:28,678
Speaker 3: you know, necessarily, and it's awesome. I just I just

1081
00:50:28,798 --> 00:50:31,918
Speaker 3: love when real baseball works, and real baseball worked for

1082
00:50:31,958 --> 00:50:32,878
Speaker 3: the Dodgers last year.

1083
00:50:33,118 --> 00:50:35,318
Speaker 1: Great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next time on the

1084
00:50:35,318 --> 00:50:35,918
Speaker 1: Book of Joe.

1085
00:50:36,118 --> 00:50:37,118
Speaker 4: See your brother, Thanks man.

1086
00:50:45,118 --> 00:50:45,558
Speaker 2: The Book of.

1087
00:50:45,598 --> 00:50:48,918
Speaker 1: Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.