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Speaker 1: Look at Our Radio is a radio phonic novela, which

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Speaker 1: is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm theos f M and I am malays. Local Radio

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Speaker 1: is your pretty must favorite podcast hosted by us Mala

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Speaker 1: and Theosa where Too I g friends turned podcast partners,

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Speaker 1: breaking down pop culture, feminism, sexual wellness, and offering fresh

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Speaker 1: takes on strending topics through nuanced interviews with up and

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Speaker 1: coming Latin Next creatives known as Las Locals, Las Mammy

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Speaker 1: Submit and Bullshit Next Doore and Lasses. We've been podcasting

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Speaker 1: independently since and we're bringing our radiophonic novela to the

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Speaker 1: Micukura Network to continue sharing stories from the latinox community.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Local to Radio Season seven, Take us to

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Speaker 1: your network. Welcome back to local Radio. This is two

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Speaker 1: I'm the AUSA and I'm Mala. Last time on Look

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Speaker 1: at the Our Radio, we talked about gun violence and

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Speaker 1: mass shootings. Tune into that episode if you haven't already,

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Speaker 1: and as always, we encourage our listeners to take care

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Speaker 1: as they tune into heavy topics and step away if

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Speaker 1: you need to. And on that note, today we're continuing

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Speaker 1: our conversation about the decline and degradation of women's rights.

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Speaker 1: We've been documenting this and we really feel like it's

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Speaker 1: bleak out here, and so we're going to continue this

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Speaker 1: conversation today. It's very very bleak. We see something really

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Speaker 1: disturbing and upsetting basically every day. I mean maybe we

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Speaker 1: we are overexposed to bad news because we're constantly on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: as you all know. But in that spirit, this is

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Speaker 1: the Me Too Backlash episode, and this episode is building

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Speaker 1: off of all of our episodes in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: We've been podcasting so two thousand and sixteen, which means

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Speaker 1: we very much podcasted through the Me Too movement, through

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Speaker 1: the Trump presidency, and as individuals BIOSA and I both

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Speaker 1: professionally and personally participated in the Me Too movement in

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Speaker 1: our own ways. And if you've been listening to look

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Speaker 1: at BA, whether it's been six years, six months, six weeks,

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Speaker 1: or six days, you know that we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: this anti feminist, anti woman wave for a long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, while scrolling through Twitter as we do,

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Speaker 1: we came across a Vox article that dives into what

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Speaker 1: many have observed, not just us, but women. Feminist journalist

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Speaker 1: folks that are online have observed the mounting and undeniable

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Speaker 1: me to backlash. And so this Vox article that we

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Speaker 1: will link in the show notes was written by Constance Grady.

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Speaker 1: She's a senior correspondent on the culture team for Vox

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Speaker 1: since and she's covered books, publishing, gender, celebrity analysis, and theater.

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Speaker 1: And so we're gonna be referencing this article a lot,

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Speaker 1: and we encourage all of you to read it and

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Speaker 1: follow her work. So a little bit of background into

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Speaker 1: the history and timeline of what we have come to

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Speaker 1: know as the Me Too movement, and this is a

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Speaker 1: timeline that is being laid out again in this Fox article.

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Speaker 1: In previous episodes, we talked about how there's not that

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Speaker 1: much feminist media left anymore, and I think Vox is

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Speaker 1: one of the few left standing. So going back in time,

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Speaker 1: right in two thousand seventeen, we started to see public

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Speaker 1: declarations from survivors talking about sexual violence in the workplace. Now,

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Speaker 1: even though we started hearing this word me too in

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Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, it was in two thousand six that

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Speaker 1: the Me Too movement was formally founded by activists Toronto Burke.

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Speaker 1: So it took a whole eleven years for that me

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Speaker 1: to phrase and the movement around it and under it

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Speaker 1: to really reach the mainstream. A lot of you maybe

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Speaker 1: heard of it through Assa Milano, right, but Toronto Burke

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Speaker 1: credited as the originator who founded the movement in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six. This also had a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with the Donald Trump presidency. Yeah, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that it took really like it gained traction because it

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Speaker 1: was like Hollywood elite talking about sexual violence and as

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Speaker 1: we know, like their workplace is Hollywood. But you know,

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Speaker 1: crediting Toronto Burke as the founder of the movement is

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Speaker 1: so important because you know, anti rape, anti sexual violence

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Speaker 1: work has been happening for decades, for centuries, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as an audio archive, we wanted on the record, which

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Speaker 1: we've talked about before. As Mala said, like Toronto Burke

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Speaker 1: was the founder, and while many celebrities became the face like,

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Speaker 1: there are also hundreds and thousands of activists of folks

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Speaker 1: that have been working in the space for for a

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Speaker 1: very long time. And so at the height of the

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Speaker 1: Me Too movement, we saw not only survivors of sexual

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Speaker 1: violence speak out publicly against their abusers, but we actually

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Speaker 1: Arrests were made, charges were filed, and powerful men who

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Speaker 1: abused that power for quite literally years think like a

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein, We're facing legal, public, and real world consequences

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Speaker 1: for their action. And I think that's why it became

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Speaker 1: the movement became so mainstream, because we were seeing real

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Speaker 1: consequences for perpetrators. And so some of the big names

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Speaker 1: that came out of the Me Too movement, uh, some

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Speaker 1: of the most chronic violent perpetrators, it seems, at least

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood that we know of. Harvey Weinstein, Charlie Rose,

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Speaker 1: Louis c k, Kevin Spacey. These were some of the

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Speaker 1: big names that tons of survivors were coming out and

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Speaker 1: they were sharing their stories about basically workplace sexual violence.

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Speaker 1: Folks who were actors, actresses, writers, trying to break into

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Speaker 1: the industry, already working in the industry, facing abuse and

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Speaker 1: assault at the hands of powerful men in the industry

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Speaker 1: like Weinstein, like Kevin Spacey. And now in journalist Constance Grady,

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Speaker 1: she argues, and we completely agree here at look at

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Speaker 1: the Radio that the backlash that very public Me Too movement,

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Speaker 1: the backlash to those legal and public and criminal consequences.

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Speaker 1: That backlash has arrived. No, I was just gonna say,

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Speaker 1: like in full force, Like the backlash has arrived in

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Speaker 1: full force. Where you know, we were talking about workplace

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Speaker 1: like real workplace sexual violence during the me too, me

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Speaker 1: too movement, and a lot of the response from men

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Speaker 1: was like I don't even want to like say hi

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Speaker 1: to anyone. I don't even want to touch anyone's shoulder,

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Speaker 1: or you see folks like be very obvious in photos,

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Speaker 1: like men like not putting their light hands anywhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is that's fine, but it also became so extreme

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Speaker 1: where it's like, well I can't do anything anymore when

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Speaker 1: it's like, well we're talking about sexual violence here, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it became very like minimizing, like, oh, no one

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Speaker 1: can do anything. Everyone is so sensitive, can't give anybody

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Speaker 1: hug anymore. Very interesting because not not all men, right,

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Speaker 1: not all men. That was that was the respon literally

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Speaker 1: the response, We're not all like this. But it was

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Speaker 1: also interesting because that language also the also that you

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Speaker 1: just described of oh so we can't even give hugs anymore,

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Speaker 1: you know, or else we're gonna be labeled creeps. It's

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Speaker 1: so interesting looking back, because Wow, those guys were really

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Speaker 1: like strongly identifying with the Weinstein's and the Louis c Ks,

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Speaker 1: you know, like really I identifying with them. And that

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Speaker 1: is something that I think is really tough to kind

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Speaker 1: of come to terms with, because that that wave of

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Speaker 1: like men identifying with powerful and violent men is we

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Speaker 1: still see it, you know, I mean the backlash that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing I think also includes this rise in these

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Speaker 1: in cell communities, their behavior, like the way a figure

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Speaker 1: like Andrew Tate has gained so much popularity and steam

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Speaker 1: there these men continue and boys like this is not

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Speaker 1: just adults, this is like teens. This is like young

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Speaker 1: kids who are very heavily identifying with like misogynists, anti

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Speaker 1: feminist thought and not just identifying, but like forming communities

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Speaker 1: and rallying around this identity and acting on this like

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Speaker 1: way of thinking. Yeah, one thousand percent. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when thinking about this backlash right being in full force,

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Speaker 1: you know we've talked about in Row versus Wade was

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Speaker 1: overturned and was a parallel that Grady makes or a reference,

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Speaker 1: I should say. Grady makes a reference to this feminist

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Speaker 1: text called backlash the undeclared war against American women, and

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Speaker 1: I want to read this quote that she references. The

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Speaker 1: problem of fashionable feminist activism, which is what we were

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Speaker 1: just talking about a couple episodes ago, followed by extreme

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Speaker 1: backlash is a known problem for the American women's movement.

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Speaker 1: It has been ever since. It was chronicled by Susan

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Speaker 1: Faluti in her classic Backlash, The Undeclared War against American Women.

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Speaker 1: Backlash was written in the aftermath of the Regga Night

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Speaker 1: conservative eighties response to the gains of the second wave

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Speaker 1: feminist movement of the seventies. Yet Fluti makes it clear

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Speaker 1: that she's not talked about one particular moment in time. Instead,

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Speaker 1: she's looking at a particular pattern of what she describes

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Speaker 1: as quote flare ups of misogynistic attitudes. And so anytime

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Speaker 1: there's strides made in the feminist movement, we see a backlash.

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Speaker 1: We see resistance from not just men, right, but systems,

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Speaker 1: people in power women also, And so it's this interesting

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Speaker 1: thing to think about, not this is not just backlash,

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Speaker 1: but this is a pattern that happens in feminist movements

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Speaker 1: or world worldwide, in this case in the US that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, where any strides that are made, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be resistance, and I think we can you know,

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Speaker 1: when looking at this from an intersectional lens, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at the election of Barack Obama to then Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Write any progress stride made, people want to want to

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Speaker 1: reverse They want to reverse course because they're afraid of

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Speaker 1: losing power. And I think that this is an example,

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Speaker 1: great example, and so one of the greatest, most important

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Speaker 1: strides for women, not just in the United States but

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Speaker 1: globally is the right and access to abortion. There was

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Speaker 1: a time where we had a constitutional right to access abortions.

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Speaker 1: In June, the Supreme Court overruled Roe v. Wade, which

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Speaker 1: was that protection for us. Roe v. Wade was a

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Speaker 1: huge victory and advancement for women's health and bodily autonomy,

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Speaker 1: not just reproductive rights, but the right to say what

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Speaker 1: happens to our bodies, what we do with our bodies,

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Speaker 1: and the way that we engage with the medical system. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: for any listeners who maybe are not as caught up

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Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade the case

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Speaker 1: of Daubs, the Jackson Women's Health Organization. This decision made

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Speaker 1: it possible for the first time since nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 1: for states to completely and outright ban abortions with absolutely

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Speaker 1: no exceptions, no exceptions, not even for survivors of rape incest,

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Speaker 1: and essentially no room to care for the health and

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Speaker 1: well being and livelihood of the expectant or pregnant person.

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Speaker 1: And now what we've seen and once the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: opened that door, now a bunch of states have followed

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Speaker 1: and thirteen states at the time of the recording of

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Speaker 1: this episode have outright banned abortions. Right, Yeah, thanks for

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Speaker 1: giving us that that context, because yeah, it's it's really

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Speaker 1: important to know like the context of like why there's

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Speaker 1: backlash right now, you know, and I think you like

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Speaker 1: really like getting into the nitty gritty shows us that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's two areas that this backlash has

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Speaker 1: two targets, right according to this article that Grady Grady

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Speaker 1: identifies these two targets for the backlash, which is reproductive

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Speaker 1: rights as you just mentioned, and also financial freedom mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: And like these these financial freedom and reproductive rights, again,

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Speaker 1: women having made huge gains in the past hundred years,

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Speaker 1: which is not that much time. That's a very short

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Speaker 1: period of time. When we really break it down, a

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Speaker 1: century is not that long. But you know, we we

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Speaker 1: can vote, we can have bank accounts and jobs, we

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Speaker 1: can wear pants, like this is basic human stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so the slowly chipping away at it is very scary.

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Speaker 1: They've already come for the reproductive rights. And so now

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the financial freedom. Yeah, do you remember

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to be too off topic,

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Speaker 1: but do you remember like being in Catholic school, Like

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Speaker 1: I remember, there were days where like you had to

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Speaker 1: wear a skirt, like you had. We had pants as

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Speaker 1: an option, but there were like formal days where you

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Speaker 1: like had to wear a skirt everyone, right, not I

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Speaker 1: mean not the boys, all the girls had. All the

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Speaker 1: girls had to wear skirts. Yeah, I do remember that

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Speaker 1: for mass for like special occasions, high holidays, what have

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Speaker 1: you that was like your formal wear was the skirt

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Speaker 1: or the jumper. Yeah, so very early on, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're indoctrinated into this policing of how girls, the young

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Speaker 1: girls dress, which we carry on into adulthood and we

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Speaker 1: police ourselves or we police each other. And so now,

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Speaker 1: you know, going back to the financial freedom, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were still in the era of like the wage gap,

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Speaker 1: like it's depending on you know who you are. If

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Speaker 1: you're black, indigenous. At the intersection of all of those things, right,

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Speaker 1: you're there's a pay, a huge wage gap, there's pay

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Speaker 1: in equity, and so that's also something I think important

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Speaker 1: to bring up when we're talking about financial freedom, like

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Speaker 1: it will you have to work hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: years one sole person too successfully earn the same dollar

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Speaker 1: that a white man earns. And so in the era

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Speaker 1: of all of this backlash, we're still in a in

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Speaker 1: a wage gap and the financial cost of being a woman.

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Speaker 1: It's expensive to be a woman, it can be, people

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Speaker 1: will point out, and it's been talked about. In addition

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Speaker 1: to the wage gap. On top of the fact that

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Speaker 1: we make less money on the dollar, are products things

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Speaker 1: that are made for us quote unquote and marketed towards

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Speaker 1: us are always way more expensive. And how does one

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Speaker 1: go to work if their menstruating and they don't have

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Speaker 1: access to menstrual products, right, And so we can look

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Speaker 1: at the domino effect of all of these things and

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Speaker 1: how they impact and same like, if you have an

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Speaker 1: unwanted pregnancy, you are forced to then have give birth,

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Speaker 1: which also limits your financial freedom, also your your resources

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Speaker 1: have to be reallocated. Either you don't go back to

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Speaker 1: work because now you're caring for a little child, or

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Speaker 1: you have to allocate money to child services, caregiving, daycare.

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Speaker 1: And we still don't have paid parental leave in this country.

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Speaker 1: We still don't have access to daycare. Like there's no

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Speaker 1: infrastructure in place, even at my university at USC with

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Speaker 1: all their dollars. You know, I have women in my

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Speaker 1: cohort that have children and they're paying additional funds for

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Speaker 1: daycare because the school doesn't have that infrastructure, you know,

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Speaker 1: So it's not there is no support for mothers, for

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Speaker 1: working parents in this country. There's no infrastructure for it,

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Speaker 1: and they're forcing folks to have babies with no net,

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Speaker 1: safety net, no support, and that definitely strips the financial freedom.

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Speaker 1: In addition to the women have made and in the

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Speaker 1: past three I can't believe it's been three years, but

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Speaker 1: we've been in three years post pandemic, ongoing pandemic. But

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Speaker 1: in the past three years, on top of all of that,

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Speaker 1: if you have been a working mother, then you've been

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Speaker 1: working from home and your kids have been learning from home.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not going to get into like we're not

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Speaker 1: going to get into dads take care of their kids too.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to get into all that right now, okay,

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Speaker 1: because what we do know to be true is still

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Speaker 1: in this country, women are doing the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: child rearing and caretaking. They just are. Statistically across the board,

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Speaker 1: mothers spend way more hours taking care of their children

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Speaker 1: than fathers tend to. And so we have this situation

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Speaker 1: where over the past three years now work working mothers

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Speaker 1: trying to hold onto their jobs so that they can

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Speaker 1: pay to live also having to like double up as

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Speaker 1: teachers and ensure that their kids are doing their Zoom

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Speaker 1: school and their Zoom lessons, and the impact on women

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Speaker 1: has been severe. I mean, thinking about the state of

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Speaker 1: like everyone's meant this is a generalization, right, but based

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Speaker 1: on how we how we've been navigating the last three years,

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Speaker 1: like the state of everyone's mental health, right, We've been

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Speaker 1: in isolation, We've lost people, We've collectively mourned and grieved,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think we've even as a country have

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Speaker 1: really held space for the collective mourning really because we

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Speaker 1: quote went back to normal right away. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that with that, you know, it's like the emotional

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Speaker 1: mental toll that mothers have to take, women have to

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Speaker 1: take on, parents have to take on um, and especially

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Speaker 1: women when it comes to running a household. There's so

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Speaker 1: much invisible labor that goes into running a house. You know,

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Speaker 1: if I just look at my own mom and think,

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was little, I used to think, like,

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Speaker 1: how does my mom remember to do everything? You know?

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Speaker 1: And now as an adult, I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: because she was running a household right like, and you

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Speaker 1: know that the men around us didn't have to They

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Speaker 1: just went to work and came back and everything was

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Speaker 1: done for them. And so there is so much invisible labor,

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Speaker 1: devalued labor or not see not even value, not even

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Speaker 1: seen as labor, right because it's invisible um that goes

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Speaker 1: into parenting, mothering, running a house. And so this is

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Speaker 1: like the backlash to all of that. It is. And

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Speaker 1: if you're listening and you have like an amazing dad

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Speaker 1: who sat down with you every single night and did

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Speaker 1: all your homework and took you to your appointments and

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Speaker 1: did everything and checked all the boxes, like we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about your daddy, Okay, do not be offended. Like

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Speaker 1: I had a great dad growing up, but I still

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that my mom was doing like almost everything that Like,

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes people don't, like you're saying, people don't

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Speaker 1: consider this stuff work. It's in the details. It's the

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Speaker 1: small stuff that ends up being the big stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I think a really great example of this is there's

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Speaker 1: that I want to say. It's that Jimmy Kimmel man

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Speaker 1: on the street Hollywood Boulevards segments that he did where

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Speaker 1: happy families, mom, dad, kid, loving parents, loving dad, and

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Speaker 1: Jimmy is asking very simple questions, asking the mom like, uh,

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Speaker 1: names of the kids, doctors, birthdays of all the kids,

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Speaker 1: best friend's name, moms like flying colors A plus, they

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Speaker 1: know all the data, they got all the info, they got,

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Speaker 1: all the names, they got all the numbers. He asked

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Speaker 1: the dad's the same questions, and most of these day

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Speaker 1: dads could not tell you. It's funny, but it's also

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Speaker 1: wild and kind of sad. Yeah, I mean I can't relate.

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Speaker 1: My dad has like not been the best father. You

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Speaker 1: know what, what's the relationship has been a work in progress,

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Speaker 1: needless to say, um, but I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 1: saw very much like the invisible labor that my mom

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Speaker 1: would do at the house very much like I just

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Speaker 1: knew so much about my life whereas and even now

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Speaker 1: I think that that carries over where you know, my

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Speaker 1: mom knows all my friends, and my dad does in

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Speaker 1: some way, but like my mom knows more about the

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Speaker 1: happenings in my day to day life. And you know,

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Speaker 1: my dad couldn't tell you where I work, what I do,

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Speaker 1: like those basic things. It's it's different. It's very different,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think that it's similar. My dad

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Speaker 1: was super involved in super loving and super there, like

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Speaker 1: he coached all of our teams and like every practice

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Speaker 1: in the games, and very present. But my mom was

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Speaker 1: like she would do this thing like this is like

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Speaker 1: these are the details, right, Like growing up as a kid,

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Speaker 1: my toes were a little like misshapen, like they weren't

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Speaker 1: exactly they're not as perfect as they are now. My

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Speaker 1: mother would sit down and tape my toes every night

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Speaker 1: before I went to sleep for years so that they

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Speaker 1: would like grow incorrectly. That is a mother's love, do

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Speaker 1: you like? Those are the lengths that mother's go to.

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Speaker 1: Right and the choice though, and this goes back to

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Speaker 1: the conversation, like your mom, I assume right made the

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Speaker 1: choice knowing her made the choice to have a family

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Speaker 1: like your mom wanted a family, UM. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: like the reproductive justice, the reproductive right to have the

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Speaker 1: choice to become a mother. As we see, there is

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Speaker 1: so much that goes into mothering. We haven't experienced start ourselves,

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Speaker 1: but we've been on the receiving end of being mothered, right,

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Speaker 1: and so we can appreciate and and value all the work,

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Speaker 1: both visible and invisible. And that's I think you know

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Speaker 1: why we're talking about that today, UM, because we see

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Speaker 1: that to choose to have a child is such a

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Speaker 1: personal choice, and we're now at a point where the

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Speaker 1: federal government has taken away that right for us totally.

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Speaker 1: And our mothers also have worked our whole lives. On

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Speaker 1: top of all that work in the house and in

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Speaker 1: raising us and in mothering us, they also went to

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Speaker 1: their jobs. And people talk about, you know, the Scandinavian

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Speaker 1: model and other countries and and where women or mothers

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Speaker 1: have more support, parents have more support, and we we

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Speaker 1: always compare ourselves to these other like quote advanced nations,

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Speaker 1: and we always come out like on the bottom. We

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Speaker 1: have the fewest resources, um, the fewest support systems, and

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Speaker 1: I always sort of compare. Honestly, I sort of always

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Speaker 1: come here in my head, like the United States is Disneyland,

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Speaker 1: Like it's animatronic, it's smoking mirrors, it's the ride, it's

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Speaker 1: the Merge, it's the it's the water show, it's the

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Speaker 1: light show. But it's a set, like it's a facade,

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Speaker 1: like there's nothing behind it. You know, it's very shallow. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was actually reading today that we are the only

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Speaker 1: developed nation whose life expectancy has declined significantly, right And

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Speaker 1: you know this is decades now of poor infrastructure in healthcare,

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Speaker 1: social security, education, public health, like across the board. And

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Speaker 1: so to see now like the data that we're declining,

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Speaker 1: our life expectancy is significantly declining, and we're supposed developed nation.

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Speaker 1: This is the reality right now of being a woman

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Speaker 1: in this country. And we the last couple of episodes

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Speaker 1: we've we've touched upon Amber Heard and the Any Depth case.

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Speaker 1: We've touched upon Megan the Stallion and Tory Lanes, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we talk about this these celebrity cases and

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Speaker 1: the reason that we do that is because they are

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Speaker 1: indicative of a dangerous trend. If this can happen to

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Speaker 1: elite Hollywood what is happening to us, to folks like us,

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Speaker 1: that the average you know person that is experiencing dating violence,

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Speaker 1: interpersonal violence, sexual violence, and so it's important to talk

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Speaker 1: about it and to identify what's happening so Depp and

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Speaker 1: something important to note, as this article does, the me

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Speaker 1: Too movement was really based also in these workplace safety issues. Again,

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Speaker 1: like celebrities abusing each other, they often meet on set,

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Speaker 1: they are in the same productions. They are coworkers. They're

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Speaker 1: not just so social lights. They're workers. They are laborers,

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Speaker 1: they get paid really well, they're in the public eye,

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Speaker 1: they live glamorous lives, but they are workers. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of the online chatter and even in conversations that

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00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: we had with people, there was a lot of misunderstanding

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Speaker 1: about the nature of the Depth Heard case. Folks seem

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00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: to believe, or wanted to believe, that this case was

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00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: was about whether or not Amber Heard was lying about

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depp abusing her, which was not the case at all.

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00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: It was a libel suit. And libel uh, this is

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Speaker 1: not the exact legal definition of the word libel, but

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Speaker 1: essentially what that means is like you're making statements and

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Speaker 1: putting things out there into the world that are not

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Speaker 1: true and that can impact the ability of the person

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Speaker 1: you're talking about to work and to earn a living.

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Speaker 1: That's what libel is. So if you if it's found

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Speaker 1: that something you did or said is libelous, right then

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Speaker 1: you can uh be required to pay damages. And in

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Speaker 1: this libel suit, both Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were

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00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: found by a court to have libeled each other, both

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00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: of them, and they were both ordered to pay money

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00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: to one another. And important to point out, uh they

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00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: had legal cases in the UK. They had legal cases

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Speaker 1: elsewhere regarding the domestic violence in which it was found

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Speaker 1: that Johnny Depp was responsible for acts of domestic violence

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Speaker 1: and abuse against Amber Heard. But this most recent case

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Speaker 1: that was oliver TikTok oliver twitter all over the internet,

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00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: was not that it was. It was a libel suit

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Speaker 1: and it came about because Johnny Depp suited Amber Heard

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Speaker 1: after she wrote an article and she didn't name Johnny Depp,

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Speaker 1: she didn't accuse him of anything in this article. She

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00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: simply referred to herself as a survivor and as a

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00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: voice for other survivors. And it was that alone that

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00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: brought this libel suit that alone, and that should scare everyone.

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00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: That's horrifying. What we can't even self identify in vague

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00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: terms in our writing without facing legal backlash, without facing lawsuits.

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00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: And she has been ordered to pay I don't even

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00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: remember how many multimillions of dollars. Yeah, again, I think

435
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: going back to you know, the the celebrity cases, and

436
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: those decisions set legal precedent, right, and it's the macro

437
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: affecting the micro and very much. And that's the case.

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00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: And so it is scary because now this is the

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00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: case that's going to be used as precedent, as legal precedent,

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00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: and so it affects all of us, every one of us,

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00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: every if you're a survivor, if you're speaking out, if

442
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: you're sharing your narrative, you're sharing your story on social

443
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: media like many of us do, like many of us

444
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: have done um and even if you're not naming the abuser,

445
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: you know you have, there's potentially you can potentially be sued.

446
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: And so it is a very scary thing. While folks

447
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: were making their little TikTok's and spreading misinformation, disinformation, this

448
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: is what this is, like, the real ramifications of all

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00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 1: of it totally once again, this box article goes on

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00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: to talk about other celebrity cases. Of course, Danny Masterson,

451
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: who was on the cast of the original That seventy show,

452
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: one of his past victims was also a co worker,

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00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: um Megan the Stallion. Tory Lane shot her. He shot her,

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00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: and there's all this wild like backlash and vitriol and

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00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: nastiness towards Megan the Stallion. When witnesses, evidence, doctors, surgeons, photos,

456
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: I mean, text messages like what more does one need?

457
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: But what we've always known and what has always been

458
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: true is that when it comes to violence against women

459
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: and children and evidence witnesses like those things don't necessarily

460
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: seem to matter to the general public. And again, Megan

461
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: and Tori going back to the idea of me too

462
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: in the workplace safety origins both working musicians. And what

463
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: we've come to learn is that part of what's set

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00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: off Tori attacking Megan and shooting Megan was an argument

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00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: between the two of them about the fact that she

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00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: is the more successful musician. She's a Grammy winner, she's

467
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: killing it snl like, she's just she's everywhere, you know

468
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: what I mean, Beyonce collapse and it was after that

469
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: that he ended up shooting her. So I think all

470
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: of this is really important because it also reminds us

471
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: and it reminds me that like it's so it's like

472
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: it's so sad, but it's like I don't, I can't.

473
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: I would never expect, like if something horrible would happen

474
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: to me, Like I have no expectation of like public

475
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: support or empathy. And it's not accepting like, oh well,

476
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: I guess it's just how it is. But this is

477
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: kind of how it is. Yeah, I mean it doesn't

478
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: mean when we stop organizing or the workstops, but it's

479
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: a it's a reality. This is the state of the

480
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: U S right now when it comes to laws and

481
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: violence against women. Totally. Absolutely. So at this juncture, I

482
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: think we're going to continue to see like we've seen

483
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: whispers of, Like is Brad Pitt gonna come out and

484
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: and file his own libel suit against Angelina Joe Lee?

485
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: Are we going to see these other men who have

486
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: in different ways been called out or had consequences. Are

487
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: they going to take the depth route and file their

488
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: libel suits because now there's a legal precedent, they know

489
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: that they can make money. They know that they can

490
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: spread misinformation and disinformation through social media, through Twitter, through TikTok.

491
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: And I want to add because we did bring up

492
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: Louis c K. You know, he was quote canceled and

493
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: he is selling out Madison Square Garden in you know,

494
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: so we're real consequences, you know. So just something to

495
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: keep in mind, and we're going to continue to have

496
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: these conversations as they come up. And so you definitely

497
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: want to thank the journalist Constance Grady for this very

498
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: in depth analysis that we referenced a lot in this article,

499
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: so uh, I mean in this episode. So again we're

500
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,959
Speaker 1: linking it in the show notes. Please go read it,

501
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: support get get to know some of her other work, um,

502
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: because it very much informed this episode and the things

503
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: that we have been having, the conversations that we have

504
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: been having privately Mala and I, which is why we

505
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: brought this episode to you today. So we know it

506
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: was a heavy one. We don't want you to feel

507
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: this empowered. Just know that there's still lots of work

508
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: to be done and the fight continues and we're going

509
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: to continue talking about it here. Look at that our

510
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: radio absolutely and like we've talked about in past episodes

511
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: two women can become vessels for the patriarchy and for misogyny,

512
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: and I think that that's part of what we're seeing

513
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: as well. If you guys are observing and noticing these things,

514
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: we're noticing the same stuff. So thank you for tuning in.

515
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you guys. You know you

516
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: can leave us voice notes on our website look at

517
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: our radio dot com. We have a speak pipe. If

518
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: you want to go and share a story in anecdote

519
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: and opinion and observation, another article or example, please feilip

520
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: free to do so. But in the meantime, this has

521
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: been another episode of look at Our Radio. Thank you

522
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: for tuning in. Thanks for tuning in. Look at That

523
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Our Radio is a production of look at That our

524
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: Productions in partnership with I Hearts Michael podcast Network. For

525
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts, listen to the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

526
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The see

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00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: thus look at Our Radio, a radio phonic novella posted

528
00:34:15,200 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: by Mala Munyas and THESTA. Then take us to your

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00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: network