WEBVTT - Alan Gilbert Is Leaving the NY Phil Even Better than He Found It 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.160 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing, 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.480 the oldest known recording of the country's oldest orchestra, the 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:23.639 New York Philharmonic. I'm no outside observer when it comes 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.360 to the film. I'm on the board. I think it's 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.920 central to the life of this city, and I believe 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.040 that today's guest has positioned it better than ever for 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.760 the challenging years ahead. When Alan Gilbert took over as 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.440 conductor and music director in two thousand nine, he knew 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.440 the line he had to walk. Be new enough to 0:00:42.479 --> 0:01:08.120 stay vital, traditional enough to stay solvent. A familiar Stravinsky 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.560 tour to Force, for example, tends to sell many more 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:16.200 tickets than a piece by a living composer. Frequent concert goers, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.800 after all, average sixty years old. Almost one third say 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.199 they'd go less often if programs included more contemporary music. 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.880 If anyone could thread that needle, it was Gilbert, the 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.000 son of two former New York philm violinists. He'd literally 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.480 grown up with the institution, but his heart beats to 0:01:36.680 --> 0:02:00.360 newer edgy or music that's legram macabre. Gilbert's first big 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.560 project with the philm it was a hit, sold out 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.840 the entire run huge reviews. He showed it was possible 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.320 the Philharmonic can evolve and triumph, but some of his 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:17.639 later modern programs met with smaller crowds and internal opposition. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.560 Last year, Gilbert announced he was phasing himself out of 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.840 the job. Directing an ensemble as technically perfect as the 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:30.919 philm poses at least one unexpected challenge. In a way, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.800 I would almost say that it's to keep them from 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.920 being too professional to remember how how it feels to 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.920 share the experience of playing music together, as if it 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.840 were the first time. I remember the first time I 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.720 played in an orchestra. It must have been dreadful. It 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.679 was the Juilliard Pre College Orchestra and I was the 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.520 last chair of second violinist. I just squeaked into the 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.720 best orchestra in pre College, and we were reading Bram's 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.480 Third Symphony for the first time. And it's one of 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.360 the hardest pieces to play, and and it had to 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.280 have sounded, you know, wretched at this first reading, but 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.040 I was so thrilled. It was so exciting to hear 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.799 the entire group playing the same piece, and I thought 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.880 it was probably the greatest thing that it ever happened, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.760 as you know, in the history of orchestras, and that 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.840 sense of enthusiasm and discovery and freshness is um is 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.840 difficult to preserve. The schedule that the New York Philharmonic 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.560 maintains is just ridiculous. Do you recommendly do less, absolutely 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.600 less music, more time, more time off. It's kind of 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.919 like being on a hamster wheel um that just keeps 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.160 keeps going on and on. And I've said this many 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.280 times and I really believe it. New York is the 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.960 toughest music market in the world and has a constant 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.080 parade of the greatest orchestras coming through and the next 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:50.240 greatest orchestras coming through, all bringing their a game. People 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.560 don't play in New York on tour unless they have 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.040 prepared as well as they possibly can. They play in 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.960 their programs, they try them in different venues. Finally they're 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.760 ready for the big time in New York. They play 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.280 in New York and they and they tried to knock 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.560 it out of the park. The New York Philharmonic plays 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.880 every week in New York normal for rehearsal, schedule, new 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:14.280 program next week for rehearsals, new program. I guarantee you. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.719 If we gave the New York Philharmonic schedule book to 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.840 any other orchestra in the world and say, okay, you 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.839 play this, people's perceptions of the relative merits of orchestras 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.920 would would shift. I mean, if you can achieve something 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.919 incredibly artistic after a lot of hard, hard work, great 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.240 more power to you. But the fact is that the 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:35.360 New York Philharmonic is playing under a much more challenging circumstances. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.159 Why why is the Philharmonic so extensive? Why there are 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.159 a lot of challenges that are just inherent in the 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.800 in the situation that surrounds the New York Philharmonic. There's there, um, 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.800 you know, their demands to generate revenue, to always have 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.000 ticket sales, and they're fixed costs that are are being 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.839 paid all the time, whether or not the orchestra play 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.320 space of this space, and for the musicians themselves, and 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:08.000 and and um it's I guess efficiency. You know, I'm 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.200 not in the business office. Uh, you know, thankfully for 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.120 you know, everyone involved. But um, but the fact is 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:15.760 that people look at the schedule and say, oh, look 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.920 at this law. We could do another concert here, So 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.479 you know, let's see maybe this is the place we 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.960 could do a benefit concert, or maybe if we have 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.680 we have one rehearsal and one concert, what can we 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.880 do with one rehearsal one concert? And the idea is to, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.440 you know, to use the orchestra to the extent possible 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.760 allowed by the contract. And when that kind of thinking starts, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.080 to to forget to take over. But even creep in Um, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.400 the artistic health of the orchestra and the sort of 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.360 call it esthetic integrity of the musicians is not the 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.680 first These are not the first things that are being considered. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:51.960 The number of notes that they played. We did dust 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.720 Rheingold Complete. I mean, that's just like ridiculous. It's two 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.520 and a half hours of incredibly hard music. And then 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.680 we did Moller's Seventh Symphony, which is like unbelievable, be difficult. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.839 And then we just jumped immediately into Um into the 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.560 Parks program, which is also hard. Divorce a New World 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.159 and symphonic dances from West Side Story sounds easy when 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:12.920 the sourcier plays it. It's one of the hardest pieces 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.320 to play. Gershwin in American in Paris, and we also 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.320 had a concert up at St. John the Divine for 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.480 Memorial Day mall or fourth Symphony thrown in. I mean 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:25.520 it's it's it's yeah, it's hard now. Um obviously, um, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.920 everybody knows your story, first native New Yorker to lead 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:33.080 the orchestra, and your family and your mom and dad 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.200 being the orchestra, you being the little kid with the 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.159 banning everybody's passports. Go ahead, No, no, no, it's just 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.880 I've just fond memories when I when I think back, 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.599 I knew everybody in the orkstra and you everybody's name, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.919 and uh, I remember sitting on the plane. Do you 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:53.320 remember Mattel Electronics Football? That was like the first video game, 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.559 and it was like these little red blips that didn't 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.240 even move, but the next one would light up as 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.919 the ball went and stuff. It was certain, by today's standards, 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.880 unbelievably rudimentary, but I love that game, and so did 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.680 Roland coll Off. He was the principal timpanist, so he 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.080 we would play this game together and then later on 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.960 it became the Rubik's Cube, and and uh, you know, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.080 I would hang out with with the orchestra, and it's 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.560 amazing to think that it's come to this. You started 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.320 playing an instrument, you were how old. Um, I always 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.880 had a violin Um from the time I was really 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:29.080 really little. West or other people. Well, you know, we 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.760 have a kind of violent, happy family. Um. My parents 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.600 were both are both violinists, and my father's father was 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.600 a violinist, and and his brother is a horn player, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.360 but he also studied the violin, and his sister as 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.600 a pianist, but she also studied the violin. And my 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.880 sister is a violinist. It's a bit let's not even 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.960 get into it. It's you know, it's it's. It is 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:56.880 what it is. But I did not want it. I mean, 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.520 kids don't just take up an instrument for the most 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.320 part when they're really little, unless their parents try to 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.800 try to set up something. But it's it's. Um. I 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.200 think it's cuts both ways. It's certainly helpful, and I 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.600 think it's served me very well to have come from 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.880 a musical family and to have been around the world 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.640 that I actually inhabit full time now. But that was 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.360 that was what I knew growing up. But if you 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.840 are self motivated and have to do it on your own, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.800 that also can lead to a certain kind of strength. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.720 When did you understand that you were good, that you 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.040 could really really play. How old we when someone said 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.600 to you, you really good? You know. I went to 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:38.600 Juilliard pre college. Certainly they were more dazzling violinists around, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.040 so I never thought I was one of the best. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.200 But I could play, and and I knew that, you know, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.480 if I wanted to, I could become a professional violinist. 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.040 That was something that, yeah, I knew I was good 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.120 enough to earn a living. And the one difference I've 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.360 noticed more than anything with between people who come from 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.640 musical families and people who come from families in which 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.160 nobody is a musician is many of those people are 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.079 told by their parents, Oh, it's a it's a risky profession. 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.000 You know, you should go into something that's more secure, 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.760 more where you know, income is more guaranteed, you know, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.560 don't you know They imagine the life of bohemian musician 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.280 who's you know, scraping to get by just from day 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:22.120 to day. I never once doubted that I could make 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.840 a living, at least to get by as a musician, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.760 because I saw what my parents didn't. It just didn't 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.080 occur to me that music wasn't a viable profession. If 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.440 you see what I mean, to Fields. Well, I went 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.760 to Fieldston, but Juilliard pre College was a Saturday weekend program. Um. 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.920 So when you leave Fieldston, where do you go? I 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:46.560 went to Harvard I um, um, not no, not, I 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.040 just went for Harvard. I you know, I wanted to 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.640 go and I thought it would be an exciting place 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.200 to be. And it was because there there are a 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.400 lot of very passionate people who were you know, whatever 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.120 they're doing, they're doing it because they're really interested and 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.600 in you. The conversations you would hear at the in 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:07.800 the dining room were about anything, you know, ranging well, 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.840 I was. I finally graduated as a music concentrator, but 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.920 that was more convenience than than the fact that it 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.839 was really what I wanted to study. At Harvard, I 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.400 did get a good education in music theory and composition 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.600 and history and things like that. Um, it's almost not 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.640 at all performance at Harvard. Um. You know, people would 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.000 joke with a certain degree of accuracy that at Harvard 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.319 music was meant to be um seen and not heard. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.120 But I was also studying violent and we organized many concerts. 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.120 But I was what I really was interested in was 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.679 English and poetry, and I took as many courses in 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.000 in in those subjects as I could. Finally, since I 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.440 was just because of the distribution and because I was 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.840 pretty lazy student, actually, it just made more sense to 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:01.400 graduate as a as a music concentrator. Curtis exactly right. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.199 And all this time you're still performing, You're still playing 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.199 the violin, and you have a sense at some point 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.319 that you you said that, you know, although you knew 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.160 you could make a living at him and get a 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.440 seat at some ensemble around the world, that you knew 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:19.599 you weren't the greatest wind does conducting enter the conversation? 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.960 My dad is a good conductor, and um, you shouldn't 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.560 get the idea that he was this kind of fierce, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.800 you know, tiger dad, you know, compelling me to pursue conducting, 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:33.560 because it wasn't like that at all. But he did 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.640 show me certain basics of conducting technique, the patterns of 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.120 moving your arms for beating four and in three, and 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.360 how to start beethoven Fifth Symphony, which is a challenging 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.600 start because it starts with the rest. There's the first 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.440 impulses of silence, you know, pop up up that there's 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.200 a impulse. That's a tricky thing to conduct actually, even 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.280 though it's you know, the iconic moment in music UM, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.720 so I had some sense of what conducting was about. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.599 And when I was in pre College, because I was 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:04.000 the concertmaster in my senior year UM, there were rehearsals 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.400 that uh, the conductor asked me to take over, so 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.920 I did string sectionals conducting the orchestra. It was kind 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.120 of lucky the way I first actually student. At the 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.839 time I first stood in front of an orchestra, there 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.240 was a guest conductor for one of the programs at 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.720 the Pre College orchestra did and it was conducted by 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:25.319 a guy by the name of Ronald Bronstein. And because 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.720 of scheduling issues or for whatever reason, the next rehearsal 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.600 after his concert, in other words, the first rehearsal of 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.800 the next cycle for the next for the next program 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.360 was going to be conducted by our regular conductor, Roger 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.720 Nirenberg Um, but he couldn't get back for that one rehearsal. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:48.400 So Ronald Um, instead of starting to rehearse Rogers program, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.800 decided to give some of the students in the orchestra 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.400 the chance to conduct. And it happened that my sister 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.960 was walking down Broadway and ran into him and he 0:12:58.080 --> 0:12:59.960 told her what he was planning to She was all 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.839 in the orchestra and um, she said, oh, I bet 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.160 my brother would be interested in that. Just this is 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.960 your Bernstein Carnegie Hall moment, well in a way, on 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:13.319 an incredibly small scale, and uh, you know, I gave 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.640 him a call and he said, yeah, okay, you're lucky. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.760 There's one more slot you can prepare the first moment 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.000 of Divortox six Symphony. And I worked with my dad 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.400 for two or three days and I had my moment 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.000 in front of the orchestra and it was completely new 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:33.240 and completely terrifying. And after that, you know, sometimes these 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.760 first moments with with a new experience are so crucial 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.720 and they really determine the direction that you end up going. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.040 Could either go, you know, one direction, or if it doesn't, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.360 if the experience is negative or difficult or scary in 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.880 the wrong way, you end up completely giving up. But 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.120 he said something to me after, and I don't know, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.400 I'm sure it was hyperbole or just kind of he 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.559 was throwing words around, and he said, you know, if 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.720 I had my way, I'd kick out the entire class 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.720 at Yard and I'd put you in the conducting class there. 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.439 He said, you have talent, and I was like wow. 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.080 So when I went to Harvard, then I had had 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.840 this experience of of conducting, and almost right away when 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.040 I got there, I auditioned to be assistant conductor of 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.880 the Harvard Back of Orchestra, which I got. I think 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.800 I was lucky. It was unusual for a freshman to 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.840 get a position like that. But because of that, I 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.360 actually got to conduct the orchestra and performance and do 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.720 rehearsals and things, and using the videotape from one of 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.400 those performances, I applied to Tanglewood for the summer conducting 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:38.400 program at Tanglewood with Sachos and Gustav Meyer, and I 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.720 got in, and uh so I was able to start 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.520 studying there. The big crossroads for me came when I 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.160 was getting ready to graduate from college and I was 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.280 planning to go to a conservatory, and I had to 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.560 really decide while I go as a violence or as 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:55.160 a conductor um And I decided to apply as a 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.920 conductor because I figured sort of what I already had thought. 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.600 I you know, I'm a decent violinist. I could I 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.400 could make a living as a violinist, even if I 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.640 don't go study at a conservatory. Now, um, let's just 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.280 see how how the conducting thing goes. So I ended 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.240 up getting into Curtis and I went to Curtis for 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.520 three years, and then I continued with the same teacher 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.680 otto Vene Mueller at Juilliard. I got my master's degree. Um, 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:26.000 so Curtis and then Juilliard after that. Yeah, I can't 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:31.160 complain about my education, and I have no academic stone unturned. Yeah, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.800 I was conducting during those two periods as well. Yeah, 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.240 Curtis and and drew itard. Although I did study violin, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.840 it was it was wonderful. I got to a new 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.320 steer sharply in the direction of conducting. And I was 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.240 Curtis and Juilliard. I was a conducting conducting student. But 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.200 while I was at Curtis, I studied violin with Yosha Brodsky, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.360 one of the great violent teachers who was there at 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.280 the time. And I also um auditioned to be on 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:58.200 the Philadelphia Orchestra substitute musician lists. And just because of 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.600 the way things were the those years, there were a 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.720 lot of openings. I think a couple of people were 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.160 on sick leave. There were people out on maternity leave 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.440 or whatever. And I played basically full time in the 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.160 Philadelphia Orchestra while I was studying at Curtis as a violinist, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.120 you know, for me, as a non pro if you will, 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.680 but a devoted fan of that music, someone will play 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.320 the fourth movement of the mallor ninth almost three minutes 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.440 longer than someone. I mean, some people just squeeze the 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.640 hell out of the adagios and so forth. In my mind, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.560 what a conductor does only only based it on that, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.720 on that information and those numbers, on those downloads that 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.640 you decide the pace that it's played, Is that correct? You? 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.520 You play it your way. I think that tempo is 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:51.480 the single most important attribute or characteristic of an interpreterpretation. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:58.160 Early on, there was no separate profession of conductor. Very 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.200 often the composer would lead the performance, or maybe the 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:05.879 first violinist. The concertmaster would guide things along, but essentially, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.960 if a pulse was kept, people could play along. Jean 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.440 Baptiste Lulli, the French composer, actually famously killed himself, supposedly, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.679 so the story goes, because what they did is not 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:19.920 wave a stick in the air, but actually he beat 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.919 a beat his staff on the floor and apparently he 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.439 missed and impaled his foot with the staff and he 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.200 contracted and he ended up. Yes, so it's a hazardous 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.440 profession even today. But back then I guess it could 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.119 have been worse. But as music got more complicated, it 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.840 became more useful and maybe even necessary for there to 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.040 be an outside person who was not playing an instrument, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.399 could listen, who could listen and guide everybody. And the 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:51.280 idea of a modern conductor with that kind of mythical status, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.520 this kind of mystical presence, who would shape the music 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.520 and come up with an interpretation. Um, you know, when 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.240 it was the composer himself in the idea was to 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.879 present the piece. But then when when you know, Mendelssohn 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.280 started performing the music of Bach, and when list started 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.879 doing other composers music, the idea was to come up 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:15.280 with a personal take, and and it became a thing. Um. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.919 And now obviously with some very complicated music, tricky meters 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.320 and stuff, the idea of you know, just giving people 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:27.199 an indication of where the is, for example, I mean, 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.440 that's that would be really really hard for an orchestra 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.159 to do. If not impossible without a conductor, and it 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:37.040 becomes an esthetic even philosophical question, what an interpretation is? Um? 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:42.200 I try to find the right tempo at every moment, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.000 right tempo? What is the right tempo? You're you know, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.879 you're pointing out that there are many different ways you 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.200 can do it, but something it's different for different people. 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.680 It's different for different situations. Since there's a better way 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.439 to play it, well, you have to find the tempo 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.480 that's absolutely right for you, that is completely organic for 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.199 your relationship with the piece. And that's what I do 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.560 when I study. I'm trying to digest the music to 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.879 the point where if I open the score randomly to 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.800 any page, I get an immediate and visceral kind of 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.800 reaction to the notes I see on the page, and 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:14.399 I have the sense that this is how they have 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.080 to go. And then you have to sell it to them, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.840 and then well what happens is it's interesting when you 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.719 know a piece that well, as you're conducting it, you 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:26.480 don't have to consciously do anything. It comes out that way. 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.280 The gesture takes care of itself. Yeah, and that's what 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.399 you were or in rehearsal. Do they ever say to 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.280 you we would, I would like to play it another way. 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.679 They don't do that. Sure, they do that absolutely, especially 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.359 if there's a solo. And that's what makes it fun 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.480 because the chemistry and the kind of give and take 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.479 of you know, it's like a it's like a vessel 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.960 with with two two chambers, and the kind of the 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.760 fluid can kind of shift back and forth. And the 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.000 idea is sometimes you give you give over a little 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.000 bit of the lead to the soloist who's playing a solo, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.359 and you react to it. But it's all together, and 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.119 that solos will feel differently about the solo, even if 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.320 they have their own interpretation, if you will, based on 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.840 your presence and your physicality. And so it's if you see, 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.680 you know, great jazz combo playing like we just had 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.639 Winton the other day and was so interesting to watch 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.239 them play together because you can tell that even though 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.520 they're improvising, they're completely affecting each other. And when one 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.280 person does something, they react to it and they emphasize 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.639 a certain impulse or you know, clicking the beat, and 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.320 then that intern inspires the one who made the first move, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.399 and it's this constant feedback loop that also happens with 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.399 music that's written down. I've done the same piece with 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:41.000 two different orchestras in consecutive weeks, and although my interpretation 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.480 hasn't dramatically changed, the way the piece ends up coming 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.160 out is very different. Is everybody doing the exact same thing, 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.639 but in their own way. Some of them seem to 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:52.800 be ahead of the beat and some of them need 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.000 to be on the beat. Yeah, that's a very that's 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.000 a very interesting observation because it's it's absolutely true with 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.640 some conductors orchestras will tend to make a sound that's 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.920 closer to where it seems as if the it's called 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.960 the ixtus of their beat. That's sort of the click 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.399 where the beat actually happens. There's there's either greater or 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.000 lesser delay from that. It depends on the the quality 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:19.080 of the gesture. And it's very hard to describe why 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.720 that works and how that works. It's also according to 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.680 the orchestra, certain orchestras play closer to the beat than 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.200 than than others. Like the Cleveland Orchestra, for example, tends 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.760 to play closer to the visual you know, where the 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.560 beat looks as if it is than the New York Philharmonic. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.520 A lot of European or German rictors just play even 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.880 more behind the beat. And this is where it gets 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.680 interesting because it's about tempo, it's about rhythm. It's also 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.360 about sound quality. If you imagine a sound that goes 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.760 that's like right there, there's no delay, yeah, or if 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.280 it's that you know that there's a kind of delay 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.520 and it can't it can't possibly start edit such a 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.680 determinate time. Um. I remember when I first played in 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:07.080 the Philadelphia Orchestra. I was early. I came in my 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.880 I made a sound before the other musicians because there 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.640 is more delay there. So I would see Ricardo Boud 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.480 you give a gesture and you go boom, and I'll 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.359 go boom right there, and everyone else would wait and 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.720 the sound would would come out later and uh, after 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.800 a while, I didn't have to make that that calculation 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:27.000 and that adjustment. And it's different from the New York 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.479 Film Institutional. Yeah, it's not a conscious thing. It's not 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:32.200 that it's not like they talk about it. But it's 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.040 the culture of sound. It's the tradition of of the 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:40.240 way they they collectively create rhythm and sound. I remember 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.080