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Speaker 1: Welcome to financial Heresy, where we talk about how money

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Speaker 1: works so that you can make more, keep more, and

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Speaker 1: give more. Today, I've got a very exciting guest on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. His name is doctor Walter Block. He has

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Speaker 1: published dozens of books. Two of them are some of

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Speaker 1: my favorite books, and that's what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: The two books are called The Privatization of Roads and

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Speaker 1: Highways and Defending the Undefendable. He is a fighter for

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Speaker 1: liberty and freedom, and the reason why I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: to talk to him is because he goes straight for

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Speaker 1: the jugular, the heart of the issues. Like many people

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Speaker 1: who are trying to advance ideas of freedom and liberty

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Speaker 1: are going to go for the low hanging fruit that

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Speaker 1: most people will agree upon, things like, hey, we need

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Speaker 1: a little bit more limited government in certain areas that

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Speaker 1: are negatively impacting people's lives. But he goes all the

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Speaker 1: way and shows how even in areas that are considered

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Speaker 1: by most to be undefendable things like prostitution, child labor,

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Speaker 1: roads and highways, he goes straight for these controversial issues

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Speaker 1: and shows how life would be better for everybody involved

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Speaker 1: to have much more limited or even removed government. In

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Speaker 1: these areas, so really really enticing topics here, really thought provoking,

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Speaker 1: really excited to discuss these issues with him and share

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Speaker 1: some of these thoughts and ideas for everybody to listen

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Speaker 1: to and hear. So, without further ado, let's dive in

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Speaker 1: and talk to doctor Walter Block. Well, doctor Block, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. Like I said

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Speaker 1: before we started recording here, I've got your book right

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Speaker 1: in front of me defending the undefendable and behind me

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Speaker 1: the privatization of roads and highways. Absolutely fantastic books, and

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Speaker 1: you go right for the jugular on some of these

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Speaker 1: very controversial topics that I'd like to talk with you

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Speaker 1: about today. So before we dive in, can you just

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Speaker 1: give a brief, a brief overview of your story. What

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Speaker 1: got you into looking at these things and being kind.

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Speaker 2: Of a.

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Speaker 1: Huge voice for freedom.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me on your show, and I'd

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Speaker 2: be happy to do my best answer for all your questions.

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Speaker 2: Certainly that one. I started out in Brooklyn, and I'm Jewish,

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Speaker 2: and every Jew in Brooklyn was a socialist, So I

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Speaker 2: was a socialist. I was a buddy of Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 2: You and I were on the track team together in

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Speaker 2: Madison High School, and I had roughly the same views

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Speaker 2: as him.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, And I was, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, pink o, comedy, socialist whatever. I wasn't really that

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Speaker 2: interesting when I was in high school. I was more

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Speaker 2: interested in girls and sports, but my politics were indistinguishable

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Speaker 2: from his. And then I was in Brooklyn College. Maybe

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Speaker 2: in my sophomore year, I forget, and iin Ran came

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Speaker 2: to lecture at Brooklyn College, and I came to converted

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Speaker 2: to socialism because you know, capitalism is evil, Yeah, starving

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Speaker 2: babies in the street with capitalism. And after the lecture

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Speaker 2: there was an announcement that there was this lunch in

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Speaker 2: her honor put on by the Einran Studies Club where

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Speaker 2: I forget what it was called, something like that. And

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Speaker 2: I went and there was this long, long table, maybe

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Speaker 2: one hundred people on each side, and iin Ran was

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Speaker 2: sitting at the head of it, and Nathaniel Brannan and

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Speaker 2: Alan Peacock and Lenon Greenspan and her chief lieutenants was

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Speaker 2: sitting there, and the only empty seats were at the

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Speaker 2: other end. So I sat there and I turned to

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Speaker 2: my neighbor and I said, you know, socialism is the

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Speaker 2: way to go capitalism is evil, and he said, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't really know that much about it, but the

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Speaker 2: people who do are that end of the table. So

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Speaker 2: I went and I stuck my head in between Ans

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Speaker 2: and Nathaniel Brandon's and I said, there's a socialist here

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Speaker 2: who wants to debate someone on socialism and capitalism. They

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Speaker 2: like debating. Brandon was very nice, very gentle, and he said,

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Speaker 2: I will come over to the other end of the table.

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Speaker 2: There's no room here now on two conditions. One, you

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Speaker 2: read two books that I will recommend, and they were

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Speaker 2: Atlas Shrugged and Economics had one lesson by Henry Hausett.

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Speaker 2: And the other promise that he made me make was

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Speaker 2: that I would continue the discussion until we settled it

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Speaker 2: and not let it lapse with one time. Well, I

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Speaker 2: read the books and I went to his house in

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Speaker 2: ein Rand's house, oh maybe half dozen times, and I

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Speaker 2: was converted. I was free enterprise and maybe not an

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Speaker 2: anarcho capitalist. Yet that didn't happen till I met Murray Rothbard,

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Speaker 2: and then I became a full fledged advocate for liberty.

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Speaker 2: But I was, you know, reasonably limited government libertarianism. The

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Speaker 2: only justification for government would be to protect the people

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Speaker 2: and property. And to that end, you need only armies

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Speaker 2: to keep foreign bad guys off of us, not to

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Speaker 2: go exporting democracy all around the world, police to keep

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Speaker 2: local bad guys off of us, not to stop victimless crimes,

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Speaker 2: just to stop murder, rape, and theft, and courts to

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Speaker 2: determine you know, who the good guys and who the

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Speaker 2: bad guys are. And that was my view until I

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Speaker 2: met Murray, and then I became an anarcho capitalist. I

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Speaker 2: think that the only good government is no government at all.

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Speaker 2: Or put it in another way, what we really need

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Speaker 2: is more governments. We need about seven and a half

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Speaker 2: billion of them, namely one for each of us, so

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Speaker 2: we're each sovereigns and nobody can compel us to pay

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Speaker 2: taxes or whatever. So that's my background. Then I was

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Speaker 2: a philosophy major, and I was it's really unsure, is

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Speaker 2: what's the best vehicle to promote liberty? Because I was

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Speaker 2: really bit by the liberty bug, and it was between

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Speaker 2: economics and philosophy, and I was unsure. So I took

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Speaker 2: a master's in each of them, masters in philosophy at

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn College and in economics at City College, and then

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Speaker 2: I finally thought it was economics, and I got a

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Speaker 2: PhD in Columbia and I've been a teacher ever since, professor,

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Speaker 2: writer and a promoter of liberty to the best of

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Speaker 2: my feeble ability.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible. I did not realize that you kind

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Speaker 1: of studied with and knew some of these amazing people.

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Speaker 1: So I take it Bernie Sanders was not there at

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Speaker 1: the table with you when you asked to debate with.

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Speaker 2: No, it was not. I don't like to brag, but

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Speaker 2: I have one thing I have to brag about. I

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Speaker 2: shook the hand of Livid von Mises and I never

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Speaker 2: washed it since, so it's a little dirty. But if

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Speaker 2: you shake my hand, you channel Meses.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, someday I hope to meet you in

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Speaker 1: person so I can get a little bit of that.

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Speaker 1: That's great. And I really like what you finished off

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Speaker 1: with by saying, we don't need more government, but we

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Speaker 1: do need more governments, namely you know, seven and a

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Speaker 1: half billion more and and so I really like that. That's,

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Speaker 1: you know, the sovereign individual aspect. So let's let's get

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Speaker 1: into some of the things that that you've written about.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, these many people consider these like,

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Speaker 1: you know, extremely controversial. This is not this is not

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Speaker 1: the low hanging fruit, if you will of like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we should probably not be, you know, bombing children in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East. It's like most people, except for maybe

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Speaker 1: the people doing that, would probably agree. This is this

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Speaker 1: is the going to the heart of it. This is

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Speaker 1: going you know, you go for the jugular here, and

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Speaker 1: you go straight for these controversial topics here. And the

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Speaker 1: first one is roads and highways. That the classic line anybody, anybody,

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Speaker 1: anytime somebody starts saying we need more freedom, we need

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Speaker 1: less government, you know, anything like that, the first response

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Speaker 1: by people who love big government is, oh, who is

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Speaker 1: going to build your roads and highways?

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Speaker 2: Then?

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Speaker 1: So you wrote a whole book about just that, and

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Speaker 1: so could you briefly summarize the privatization of roads and highways?

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, a lot of people can't envision highways, streets, avenues,

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Speaker 2: thoroughfares being run by private enterprise. But the first ones

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Speaker 2: were My research went back to England and around the

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Speaker 2: six hundreds, and certainly in the US and the revolutionary

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Speaker 2: war times and the eighteenth century, seventeenth century, there were

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Speaker 2: private roads. They were called turnpike roads, and you paid

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Speaker 2: a fee to go on the road, and the fees

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Speaker 2: usually varied with how many horses you had on your carriage.

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Speaker 2: And if you just walked it would be very cheap.

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Speaker 2: If you had one horse, that would be a little

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Speaker 2: bit more expensive. If you had a wagon with the

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Speaker 2: two axles and four horses, it would cost more. And

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Speaker 2: they even based the price on the width of the wheel.

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Speaker 2: If your wheel was very narrow think ice skates, well,

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Speaker 2: then you'd put ruts in the road and they would

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Speaker 2: charge you more. On the other hand, if you had

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Speaker 2: a wide wheel, you would smooth out the ruts and

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Speaker 2: they would give you a cheaper price. And it was

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Speaker 2: a perfectly viable system. And what happened was that the

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Speaker 2: government refused to protect the road owners against thieves, namely,

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Speaker 2: people would go on the road and not pay, and

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Speaker 2: the government was the monopoly of violence. And if they

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Speaker 2: refused to pay to protect private property, well then you

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Speaker 2: can't have a viable system. So they took over the roads.

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Speaker 2: But the roads we're doing fine. So don't tell me

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Speaker 2: that private enterprise can't have roads. They can, and they

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Speaker 2: can have railroads in New York City, the BMT and

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Speaker 2: the IRT were originally private subways. The ID was originally governmental,

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Speaker 2: but the BMT and the IRT subway stations private, and

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Speaker 2: they were going to raise their fare from a nickel

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Speaker 2: to a diamond. Then the government said, oh, that's unconscionable,

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Speaker 2: you can't do that. We're nationalizing or municipalizing. And then

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Speaker 2: guess what, they raised the price a lot more than that.

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Speaker 2: So there's nothing wrong with long, thin things like subways

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Speaker 2: or railroads or highways or being in the private sector. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So that's a little bit of the history. Why was

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Speaker 2: I motivated to write this book because at the time

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Speaker 2: there was something like thirty five thousand people of you

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Speaker 2: who would die on the highways, and nowadays it's up

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Speaker 2: to forty thousand, give or take every year. It varies,

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Speaker 2: but it's somewhere between the high thirties and the low forties.

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Speaker 2: Thousands of people die every year. And you know, to

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Speaker 2: just put this in perspective, how many people died in

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven, it was just around nineteen hundred or

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Speaker 2: something like that. Now, look, every life is precious, and

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to dismiss the nineteen hundred people killed

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Speaker 2: or was it three thousand? I might be mixing it.

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Speaker 2: Up with how many people died in Katrina in New Orleans.

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Speaker 2: I think that was nineteen hundred and three thousand people

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Speaker 2: died in New York City and everyone was, you know, apoplectic.

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Speaker 2: This is horrible and these were one off, thank god,

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Speaker 2: But every year forty thousand people die and nobody says, squad,

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Speaker 2: It's sort of like it's inevitable. Well we have you know,

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Speaker 2: why do we have pretty good shirts, why do we

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Speaker 2: have pretty good cough drops? Why do we have pretty

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Speaker 2: good I don't know, nes or motorcycles or bicycles or corn.

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Speaker 2: Because of competition, and if somebody doesn't provide good shoes

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Speaker 2: at a low price, they tend to lose money. And

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Speaker 2: if they keep the error of their ways, they go

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Speaker 2: broke and they have to do something else. And then

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Speaker 2: people who can make shoes better or whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: computers or wristwatches, well then they can take over. Namely,

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Speaker 2: we owe our civilized lifestyle the competition and private property rights. Well,

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Speaker 2: the thesis of my book was let's apply that to roads.

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Speaker 2: And then I think maybe one third of the book

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Speaker 2: is spent on well, what could a private road owner

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Speaker 2: do to reduce death rate? And let me just give

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Speaker 2: you a few of the suggestions that I had, and

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Speaker 2: I'm no expert on this, it's just sort of common sense.

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Speaker 2: One thing is, you know the major highways minimums be forty,

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Speaker 2: maximum speed is seventy. You try going seventy, especially in

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Speaker 2: the left lane, and people are going to go berserk

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Speaker 2: because you know you're slowing down traffic. You want to

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Speaker 2: do seventy, you stay in the right lane. Well, maybe

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Speaker 2: it's not this, maybe that speed limit as well. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it's not the speed, it's the variation in the speed,

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Speaker 2: the fact that some people are doing fifty miles an

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Speaker 2: hour and other people are doing eighty. Maybe what we

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Speaker 2: should do, and I just contemplated this is have each

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Speaker 2: lane have its own speed limit, namely, in the right lane,

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Speaker 2: everyone's got to do sixty. In the middle lane, everyone's

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Speaker 2: got to do seventy, and in the left lane everyone's

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Speaker 2: got to do eighty. Would that would that save lives?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But if I try that on my lane,

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Speaker 2: on my highway, and you tried instead of sixty seventy eighty,

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Speaker 2: you try sixty five, seventy five eighty five or fifty

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Speaker 2: sixty and seventy or whatever it is, then we'd see

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Speaker 2: we'd have competition. See right now, we have one rule

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Speaker 2: of the road for all the roads, and it comes

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Speaker 2: from Washington, d C. And there are a bunch of

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Speaker 2: ninkum poops. Whereas in shirts, we don't have one way

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Speaker 2: of making shirts. You know, you want to make sure

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Speaker 2: it's a different way, and if you can out compete me, well,

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Speaker 2: then the shirts will be made your way. So I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: let's try that and then another way to save lives.

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Speaker 2: In addition, that each lane should have its own speed.

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Speaker 2: Right now, they say slower traffic, stay right, but they

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Speaker 2: never give you a ticket if you're doing sixty five

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Speaker 2: in the left lane and now everybody's got to switch

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Speaker 2: lanes to get around you. Well, maybe the switching of

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Speaker 2: lanes causes deaths. It's just plausible. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's true or not, but it's plausible. And on my road,

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Speaker 2: I would say, you know, you do sixty five in

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Speaker 2: the left lane, I'm gonna kick your butt. I'm gonna,

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Speaker 2: you know, penalize you very heavily for creating lane changing.

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Speaker 2: Other favorite of mine is there were these two trucks,

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Speaker 2: big big eighteen wheelers and ones behind the other and

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Speaker 2: you know one's going to try to pass the other

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Speaker 2: and it's going to take them twenty minutes to do

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Speaker 2: it in twenty miles. So what do you do. You

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Speaker 2: hit the gas, you go ninety miles an hour, and

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Speaker 2: you pass them before they can blockade you. Well, I

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Speaker 2: would have a rule that, you know, the slower truction

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Speaker 2: let the faster truck get by and stop racing them,

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Speaker 2: because you're just blockading traffic. So I had, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a dozen or two things like that. Another one was,

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Speaker 2: whenever there's a death, you put a big cross or

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Speaker 2: a big Jewish star or a big Mohammed emblem for

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Speaker 2: their religion. And I don't mean five feet high, I

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Speaker 2: mean fifty feet high. And maybe that'll scare some people

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Speaker 2: because you know, certain parts of the road veer around

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Speaker 2: or whatever, and you want to make it safe. So

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Speaker 2: I had a dozen or two suggestions like that, but

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Speaker 2: I don't rely on it any of them. What I

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Speaker 2: rely on is competition, the idea that different people have

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Speaker 2: different roads and different techniques. And now I say, hey,

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Speaker 2: on my road we had very few deaths. Was on

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Speaker 2: Joe Brown's road. You know, they're dying like flies, and

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Speaker 2: everyone should come to my road, okay. And then the

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Speaker 2: last third of the book was objections objections to the

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Speaker 2: idea that we have private roads. One of the objections was, well, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you have a house on my street. Every time you

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Speaker 2: come in or out, I'm going to charge you a

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Speaker 2: million dollars, namely, I'm going to blockade you in there.

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Speaker 2: And that would be an objection, and it's commonly made.

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Speaker 2: And the answer to that that is, Look, you never

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Speaker 2: would have bought that house on my road unless you

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Speaker 2: contractually obligated me not to do that. And I would

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Speaker 2: have an incentive not to do that because I want

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Speaker 2: you to build a house or a factory on my

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Speaker 2: road so more people would go on my road. So

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Speaker 2: I would promise you contractually that I'll never charge you

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Speaker 2: any more than anyone else, or you know, something, so

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Speaker 2: that you'll be attracted to come to my road. Then

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Speaker 2: I had a whole bunch of objections of that sort,

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Speaker 2: and I try to refute all the possible objections I

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Speaker 2: could think of. Another one was, well, right, now we

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Speaker 2: have eminent domain. You want to build a what's city

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Speaker 2: of you now?

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Speaker 1: In Joe, Phoenix Scott Still area. I'm sorry, Phoenix Scottsdale

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Speaker 1: area in Arizona.

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Speaker 2: Phoenix. Okay, I'm usually in New Orleans and I want

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Speaker 2: to build a road from New Orleans and Phoenix. How

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Speaker 2: far is that? Maybe twenty five miles, give or take.

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Speaker 2: How many people own that property between Phoenix and New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: I don't know a million. Well, I want to build

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Speaker 2: the road as the crow flies straight. But there's a holdout.

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Speaker 2: My favorite holdout is the guy from the South Park.

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Speaker 2: What's this? The fat kid from South Park? I forget

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Speaker 2: his name. He's going to be the holdout, and so

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Speaker 2: I don't have to do it. Cartman, Cartman from South Park. Well,

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Speaker 2: I don't have to build the road as the crow flies.

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Speaker 2: I could build it with a little bend so that

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Speaker 2: I avoid Cartman the holdout, you see, eminent domain means

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Speaker 2: that I just tell Cartman, you know, you're selling me

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Speaker 2: the road at a price that I'm willing to pay.

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Speaker 2: I'm the government. But that would hardly be compatible with

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Speaker 2: free enterprise. So another objection to this is you need

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Speaker 2: the government to build the road in the first place.

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Speaker 2: And the answer to that is if Cartman was, you know,

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Speaker 2: blockading the road, I would build a tunnel under him

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Speaker 2: or a bridge over him. And then I got into

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Speaker 2: all sorts of well, who owns up in the air,

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Speaker 2: who owns down to the earth? I kt oft a

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Speaker 2: lot of convoluted objections to this, but the main two

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Speaker 2: were those another one. Let me just give you one more.

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Speaker 2: What I did is I said, right now, forty thousand

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Speaker 2: people are dying on the road. How many people do

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Speaker 2: I think would die on the road if we had

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Speaker 2: private enterprise? Not zero? The only way to have zero

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Speaker 2: deaths is to have a speed limit of five miles

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Speaker 2: an hour, and even then probably you'd have a death

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Speaker 2: or two. So I asked themated, what was it one

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Speaker 2: quarter of the people would die? Namely, ten thousand people

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Speaker 2: here would die on private roads. And I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: private enterprise not magic. It's just a very very efficient

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Speaker 2: system compared to government. But we're not in heaven here.

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Speaker 2: Were under free enterprise, you'd still have some deaths. So

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Speaker 2: I had a critic who said, well, well, then you

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Speaker 2: know private roads are guilty of killing ten thousand people,

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Speaker 2: and I said it was saving thirty thousand, so it's

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Speaker 2: better that way. So that's a ten minute review of

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Speaker 2: the book, the history of it. How would it work?

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Speaker 2: Why would it save lives dealing with objections. Another minor

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Speaker 2: point was congestion. You know, I don't know what it's

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Speaker 2: like in Phoenix, but in New Orleans during Russia Hour,

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Speaker 2: you know, you don't go anywhere, You just sit there.

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Speaker 2: And how would private roads deal with that? You'd have

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Speaker 2: peak load pricing to watch a lot more to get

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Speaker 2: out on the road at five o'clock or at night

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Speaker 2: or at eight o'clock in the morning. So there are

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Speaker 2: other benefits besides saving lives, saving time, but the main

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Speaker 2: focus is to save lives and have more efficient economy.

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Speaker 1: I wrote down three points while you were talking here.

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Speaker 1: The first one is the other day I was leaving

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Speaker 1: the gym and I was thinking about this interview, and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking if the if proportionally the same number

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Speaker 1: of deaths happened driving on this parking lot coming in

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Speaker 1: and out of the gym, which is private property. If

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Speaker 1: somebody designed a parking lot that was so poorly designed

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Speaker 1: that it was causing causing deaths, Uh, all of the

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Speaker 1: businesses that are in that area, they would they would leave.

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Speaker 1: There would be uproar. It would be you designed this,

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Speaker 1: And there's there's ramifications for that. But because the government

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Speaker 1: has a monopoly on it, there is no uh, there

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Speaker 1: is no accountability there, and private companies already have experience

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Speaker 1: maintaining so like when was the last time you hit

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Speaker 1: a pothole in a parking lot? Businesses don't want potholes

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Speaker 1: in their parking lots, but they're all over public roads.

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Speaker 1: So that was the first first point. The second point

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Speaker 1: that popped up is I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that people are clear about this because this

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Speaker 1: is that when people think of, like, hey, if we

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Speaker 1: privatize something that is currently maintained by the government, they

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Speaker 1: think of something like private prisons or internet companies, which

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Speaker 1: are essentially just extends of the government because they get

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Speaker 1: granted government monopolies on things. So we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: private monopolies granted by the government. We're not talking about

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Speaker 1: private public partnerships, right, This is this is purely privatization

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Speaker 1: of roads, right.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then that would always allow for competition. If

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Speaker 1: I make the road between Arizona and California and it's

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible road and I'm charging way too much,

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Speaker 1: somebody can build a road literally right next to it

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Speaker 1: in that whole entire expanse of desert and make it

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Speaker 1: better and charge less, and they would get all the

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Speaker 1: business right. One idea that and I can't I spent

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Speaker 1: a little bit of time since I read the book,

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Speaker 1: but so I can't remember if you had this in

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Speaker 1: the book or not. But another idea is driver tests.

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Speaker 1: Like you see all the time people who are driving

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Speaker 1: who look like they it's been a while since they

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Speaker 1: took a driver's test, and you can tell by the

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Speaker 1: way they're driving that they are really not that confident

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Speaker 1: in their driving abilities and skills. And so having some

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Speaker 1: sort of aptitude testing for certain roads, maybe some companies

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Speaker 1: would say, hey, you have to go through our aptitude

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Speaker 1: test and you have to score a certain score to

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Speaker 1: be able to drive on our roads. And that would

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Speaker 1: drive down deaths immensely.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. Not only could they build a road next

396
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Speaker 2: to you if you had a bad road, they could

397
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Speaker 2: build a road right on top of you. Well, not

398
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Speaker 2: right on top of you'd have to leave room for trucks.

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Speaker 2: But the tallest truck is I don't know, fifteen feet high,

400
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Speaker 2: and you build another road on top of that road

401
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Speaker 2: thirty feet high. They don't own the area above them

402
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Speaker 2: or the area below them, so you get around that way.

403
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Speaker 2: That point about potholes in parking lots is magnificent. I

404
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Speaker 2: wish I had that in the book Where were you

405
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Speaker 2: when I wrote this book? I needed you? That is

406
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Speaker 2: a very very good point. I certainly benefit from that,

407
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Speaker 2: and I appreciate that point absolutely.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's move on to the next very

409
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Speaker 1: controversial topic. And this is where you get into some

410
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Speaker 1: things that are maybe by many considered immoral, things that

411
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Speaker 1: are considered things that like nobody should do that or

412
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Speaker 1: this would be bad for that person if they did it,

413
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Speaker 1: and therefore in our society they are illegal. And so

414
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Speaker 1: the point is that for many of these things, the

415
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Speaker 1: fact that they're illegal actually makes them so much worse.

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Speaker 1: And the first one that I'd like to talk about

417
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Speaker 1: here is prostitution. You make a very strong case that

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Speaker 1: it should actually be legalized, not recommending, like I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want anybody that I know or love or care about

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Speaker 1: to be a prostitute, but the fact that it's illegal

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Speaker 1: makes it much worse. And so let's hear about that.

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Speaker 2: Right, vices are not crimes. I believe prostitution is a vice.

423
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Speaker 2: Not qua libertarian the quaw person look I had a mother,

424
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Speaker 2: she passed away. I have a wife, I have a sister,

425
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Speaker 2: I have a daughter. I wouldn't want any of them

426
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Speaker 2: to be prostitutes, because I don't think that's a good

427
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Speaker 2: way for them to interact. But if they confine their

428
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Speaker 2: activities to adults, it was between consenting adults, I wouldn't

429
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Speaker 2: want them to be put in jail for it because

430
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Speaker 2: these are vices, not crimes, And just because something is

431
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: immoral or improper doesn't mean that we should use the

432
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: force of law. As a libertarian, I do believe in law,

433
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 2: and I believe in coercive law, namely murder, rape, theft, arson, kidnapping, carjacking, whatever. Yes,

434
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: use violence to stop those criminals, and don't make it

435
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: a misdemeanor if you steal less than nine and ninety

436
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: dollars or something like that, that's crazy. So I'm not

437
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: against police stopping crime. I am against police stopping vices.

438
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: And I personally believe that constitution is a vice. We're

439
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: not talking about just between consenting adults. We're not talking

440
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: about children. Children are another issue. I just thought about

441
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: one other objection that I dealt with in the book

442
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: on Roads. You know what about the poor. That's always

443
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: an objection. What about the poor, And I think the

444
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: poor would do a lot better not being killed because

445
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: some poor people die, and also the economy much richer,

446
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: so there'd be fewer poor people. So that would be

447
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: my answer to that. But on prostitution, when prostitution is illegal,

448
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean it ends. It means it goes underground.

449
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: And now you have people, very different types of people

450
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: who are in charge of it, and they brutalize the women.

451
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: Well not just women, there are male prostitutes as well,

452
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: and they all get brutalized by these underworld types that

453
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: are in charge. Look right now, in Nevada, apart from

454
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, prostitution is legal, and in many countries in

455
00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: Europe prostitution is legal, and the proteus are not run over,

456
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: rough shot, they're treated well. This competition, the customers are

457
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: treated well. It's an entirely different thing. It's sort of

458
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: like alcohol. When we prohibited alcohol, people were shooting each

459
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: other over alcohol turf. Now alcohol is legal. You want alcohol,

460
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: you go to the supermarket, or you go to the alcohol.

461
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: It's the one you buy alcohol, and there's no shooting

462
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: or anything like that. Well, It's similar with prostitution. When

463
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: it's prohibited, it goes underground, it doesn't end. It's the

464
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: world's oldest profession. It'll still exist. And you know another

465
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: problem with this is, Look, if two people go to

466
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: bed with each other, that's not a crime, and now

467
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, money changes hands and that's a crime.

468
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: Why should the very same thing not be a crime

469
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: when there's no money changing hands, and then the money

470
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: changes hands and now it's a crime. What's this antipathy

471
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 2: to commerce? Look, I want to give you I don't know,

472
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: I want to give you. I want to give you

473
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: this pen, and you accept this pen, and that's legal.

474
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: And now I want to give you this pen and

475
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: I want to charge you a dollar for it. And

476
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: now that's proven by law. I mean it's the same pen. Yeah,

477
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: So why should in one case it be legal in

478
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: the other case be illegal. One is the exact same act,

479
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: only in one case this money involved changing hands and

480
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 2: the other it's not. What's this antipathy to money changing

481
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: hands on a voluntary basis? So if two people go

482
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: to bed with each other, that's legal, and then one

483
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: pays the other for doing that, and now that's illegal. Why,

484
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: there's no reason, no justification for that.

485
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I even one step farther. If I ask a

486
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: woman to come over and I pay her to come

487
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: over and we have sex, that's a crime. If I

488
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: set up a video camera and then post that video

489
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: of us online and I still pay her for that,

490
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: that's now considered creating pornography, and that's legal. So just

491
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: the act of filming it and putting it online, now

492
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: that makes it okay. But if we don't have the

493
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: video camera, now it's illegal. It's there. There's really no difference.

494
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: It's only the government could come up with something like this.

495
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: Only the government could come up with banning nail clippers

496
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: on planes, because it's me. They're weird people, these government people.

497
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. One uh. One other thought that I had is

498
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: if imagine like like like just like the war on drugs,

499
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: which we'll get into, is like you force the people

500
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: who are already prone to committing crimes and doing bad things.

501
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: They're the only people left who are willing to take

502
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: over that, and it suddenly becomes very profitable because it's illegal.

503
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: And like imagine if you were like Tender is a

504
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: dating app. You pay money to Tinder and it sets

505
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: you up with people that you can go out on

506
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: dates with, and many times it's for one night stands

507
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: and for hooking up. Just one more feature on there

508
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: where you could pay for a date that would eliminate Like,

509
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: I'd much rather have Tender in charge of prostitution than

510
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: drug cartels or Amazon in charge of it versus you know,

511
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: drug cartels. It's like, if something like that's going to happen,

512
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: we would like it to be out in the open

513
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: as much as possible, as safe as possible, and run

514
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: by people with at least better morals than criminal gangs.

515
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely.

516
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: And then okay, so when you said that about the

517
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: poor people on the roads, you know, we'll circle back

518
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: to that, because I wanted to make one point about

519
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: that that a lot of people make that objection about

520
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: public schools as well, that if we get rid of

521
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: public schools, which are absolutely terrible and ineffective at the

522
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: stated goal that that poor people would not be able

523
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: to have an education, and the private sector is the

524
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: only place that has actually been able to produce free

525
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: education because taxpayers pay for public education. It's not free,

526
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of who's paying for it. Well,

527
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: what is YouTube that is free. And I have a

528
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: buddy who's a high school science teacher. The night before

529
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: his test to get certified to teach science to high schoolers,

530
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: he realized, Hey, I didn't go to school for science.

531
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: I went to school for history. But I'm going to

532
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: become a science teacher. So he spent four hours watching

533
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: science YouTube videos and then when it took the test,

534
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and now he's qualified to teach high school science. Well,

535
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: why can't the high schoolers? Just why? And YouTube is free,

536
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: and so if they could do that with education, why

537
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: can't they do that with roads? Why can't you have

538
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: a free road that is paid for through advertising or

539
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: something like that? Like there's there. Just because something is

540
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: private doesn't mean free versions of it are not going

541
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: to be available.

542
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: Well, you talked about the parking lot. The parking lot

543
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: is a bunch of roads for and that's for free.

544
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: The store owner wants people to come to the store

545
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: and wants to make it easier from them to come,

546
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: so they provide free parking lot services. I would go

547
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: additionally on the education, there would hardly be a Catholic

548
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: school or a Jewish school or a Muslim school that

549
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: would turn away people who are very poor and couldn't

550
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: afford it, so it would be free, not only on

551
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: YouTube or electronic but you know, fifty years ago there's

552
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: no church or synagogue related school that would turn away

553
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: people kids from their school who couldn't afford it, and

554
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: they would do it for free, and they'd throw in

555
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: a breakfast or a lunch or something as well. So

556
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: we need not worry about that. But this whole argument

557
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: of worrying about the poor the poor in this country

558
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: have called TVs. The poor in this country they don't

559
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: have a Maserati, but they have a Volkswagen ten years old,

560
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: whereas in other countries the middle class can't even afford that.

561
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: What is it a rising tide lifts all boats. Trickle

562
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: down theory which is reviled, I think is true if

563
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: you get everyone being rich or the middle class being

564
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: rich and the poor the poor also benefit. Look, why

565
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 2: is it that barbers make more money now than they

566
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: made one hundred years ago? The technology, let's say, hasn't changed,

567
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: or maybe not barbers, but you shine people are why

568
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: because we now have innovation and we have much more

569
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: high productivity and the alternative options that these people is

570
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: much higher. So the poor get uplifted by wealth created

571
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: in the society. So I think that. But that's always

572
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: an objection to anything of a free enterprise nature. Well,

573
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: the poor wouldn't get money, Well, they'd be private charity

574
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: in general. And by the way, what is it. The

575
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: Red states are much more charitable than the Blue states.

576
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: So people who are more free enterprise rounded are more charitable.

577
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: I wanted to mention one other thing. I wanted to

578
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: read my favorite quote from Thomas soul sow Ell, one

579
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: of my favorite economists, on this competition for roads, and

580
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: what he says, let me read this. It is hard

581
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of

582
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: making decisions, and by putting those decisions in the hands

583
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: of people who pay no price for being wrong. Well,

584
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 2: who are the people in charge of forty thousand deaths

585
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They're in charge of

586
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: the roads. Do they pay any price individually one another?

587
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: The death occurs, not a penny, and yet the decision

588
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: rests with them. Whereas if it was in a private

589
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: road and somebody died on your road, God forbid, you

590
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: would pay a price. Well, we and if you make

591
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: a bad shirt, you pay a price. So that's why

592
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 2: we have pretty good shirts and pretty lousy highways because

593
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: the shirts are private and not the highways. Imagine if

594
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: the government were making shirts. Yeah, they'd be crappy shirts

595
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: and no one would pay a penalty for the lousy shirts.

596
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 2: It's sort of like Commie Cola behind the Iron curtain.

597
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't very good, and there are good reasons why

598
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: it wasn't very good.

599
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, let's let's talk about child labor.

600
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: And depending on the time, this may be the last

601
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: last one we can hit here. But child labor is

602
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: something that is looked at as a barbarous relic of

603
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: the past. And it's so good that we don't have

604
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: kids work working today instead, aren't we privileged that we

605
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: get to have our kids in buildings locked in there

606
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: eight hours a day, at risk of everything going on

607
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: today in public schools, like you know, shootings and gender ideologies,

608
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: and you got fifteen minutes of break, you know, to

609
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: run around on a playgroom playground before they sit you

610
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: back down in a desk. And forest feed is something

611
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: you'll never use again in your life. So that's obviously

612
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: a utopia for a child. Right, So let's talk about

613
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: child labor and why it should be allowed.

614
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we talk about child labor, we're

615
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 2: not talking about child actors who are making one hundred

616
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: thousand per episode of the show that they're in. And

617
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: we're not talking about prodigies musicians who are playing the

618
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: violin in front of an orchestra. That's a different issue.

619
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 2: They're not in trouble. Well, we talk about child labor.

620
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 2: What we usually mean is in the in the sixteenth

621
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: century or the eighteenth century, some kid working cleaning a

622
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: fire some machinery and the machinery chumps them up and

623
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: kills them. Or working in a coal mine or something

624
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: like that, or working not eight hours a day but

625
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: twelve fifteen hours a day, and you know, in a

626
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: dangerous factory with all sorts of dangerous material around. That

627
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: kind of chand labor we all oppose. All people of

628
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: goodwill are against that. So now the question comes, well,

629
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: why don't we have it nowadays? And there are two theories.

630
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: One theory is, well, the government, in its largees, in

631
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: its bountifulness, declared it illegal and that's why we don't

632
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: have it. That's one hypothesis. The other hypothesis. The correct

633
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 2: one is we're rich enough nowadays so we can afford

634
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: not to have kids working in coal mines. And the

635
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: proof of this is, look, if we said that sixteen

636
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 2: years old kids and below couldn't work in the year

637
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen fifty, what would have happened to kids?

638
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: They all would have died because we were so well,

639
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 2: not all, but many of them would have died because

640
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: we were so poor in the sixteenth century that we

641
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: needed the work of pretty much everyone. Okay, maybe not

642
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 2: two year olds, but seven year olds, Yeah, you have

643
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: to work. So then what happened is we got a

644
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: little richer every century, and every century they passed another

645
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: law was saying that that age can't work anymore, thus

646
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: attempting to take credit for the fact that we were

647
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: richer and therefore we didn't need as many children working.

648
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: But the proof of the pudding is that if they

649
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: if they were too fast, there'd be deaths. And we

650
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: do have child labor in some parts of Africa and Asia.

651
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: And what happens is when we eliminate that child labor

652
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: by law, the kids have to go to garbage dumps

653
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: to find food or they get into prostitution. And we

654
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: talked about prostitution before, but we were talking about adult prostitution

655
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: on a voluntary basis. This prostitution is a very different

656
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: kind of this, child prostitution. This is an abomination, pure evil,

657
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 2: and it comes about because of this seemingly good will

658
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: effort to stop child labor. Look pretty much everybody is

659
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: doing what they think is best for themselves. If I

660
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: tell you to stop with doing what yourself doing, what

661
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: you're now doing, you're going to have to do your

662
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: second best thing, which wasn't as good as the first

663
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: best thing in your eyes. Well, right now, there's some

664
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: kid in Bangladesh who's working in a dangerous coal mine,

665
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: let's say. And if we say you can't do that

666
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: by law, well, his next best option isn't as good

667
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: as the one that he's got now, and the proof

668
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: of it is that he or his parents chose that

669
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: for him. The next best option might be protus we're

670
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: going to a garbage dump and looking for food. Namely,

671
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: we're worsening him. No, the best way to get that

672
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: kid out of the child labor in bangladeshia wherever it

673
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: is is to follow Adam Smith's The Wealth of nations,

674
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: how do nations get wealthy, free enterprise, private property. Adopt

675
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: that system, and then the child labor will go away.

676
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: And that's the only way it'll go away, because if

677
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: you just ban it, you're worsening the condition of these children.

678
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: I think one of the one of the proofs that

679
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: that it's at least today not as bad as like

680
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: what people initially think of when they hear the words

681
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: child labor is the fact that one of the ways

682
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: wealthy families passed down their wealth is by the time

683
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: their kids are, you know, in their twenties, they've already

684
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: had ten to fifteen years experience working in the family

685
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: business because that's one form of child labor that is

686
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: still legal. And so I can have my kids work

687
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: for me, and I can teach them how to do

688
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: the books, and I can show them the things that

689
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: are required to run a small business and how to

690
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: invest and do these things. And most families don't have

691
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: access to that because they work at regular jobs. They

692
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 1: don't own their own business. And so for their kids,

693
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: by the they're going to have to wait until they're

694
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, sixteen to be able to start working at

695
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: an entry level job versus you know, being able to

696
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: do that at a much younger age when they would

697
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: maybe like to instead. And so I think that it's

698
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: one of those things where when it's outlawed for everybody else,

699
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: but there is one loophole that allows generally wealthier families

700
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: to be able to do it. Well, maybe that's a

701
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: sign that everybody should be allowed to do it.

702
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: There's another point I wanted to make visa the child

703
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: labor and that's the minimum wage law. A lot of

704
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 2: children don't have productivity levels above what is it now,

705
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: fifteen dollars an hour. Bernie Sands wants make it twenty five,

706
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: so they can't get jobs. And then people are begging them,

707
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: especially during the summer when school is out, to you know,

708
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 2: employ a child. And then what they'll do is they'll

709
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: have a special minimum wage law for the teenagers lower

710
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: which indicates that the minimum wage law is creating unemployment,

711
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: is not raising anyone's wage. And it's good for kids,

712
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: high school kids to get out in the summer and

713
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: you know, deliver a newspaper or get ask people if

714
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: they want fries with that or low level jobs where

715
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 2: you learn on the job. And that's the point you're making.

716
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: Not only should the children of rich people who own

717
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: companies have that option, but every kid, every high school

718
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: kid or even intermedia school kid should be able to

719
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: you know, sell lemonade or whatever it is that they

720
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: could do. But the minimum wage laws stops it. And

721
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: here we're saying child labor is good, not of the

722
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: bad kind in a coal mine, but to learn the skills.

723
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: As you was saying, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then in

724
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: terms of like you know, you talked about everybody was

725
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: so poor and let's say the fifteen hundreds of sixteen

726
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 1: hundreds that they had to work, well, that was even

727
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: more true if you go back even farther than that,

728
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, if we go back to like hunter gatherer lifestyle,

729
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't just the kids. Weren't just sitting around doing nothing.

730
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: As soon as the boys got old enough, they'd go

731
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: off on the hunting, hunting trips with the men. And

732
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: you know, in farming cultures, with agriculture, it's the kids are,

733
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 1: you know, learning how to cook and learning how to

734
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: maintain the house and farm and all that, and it's

735
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: a group effort in order to survive. And so the

736
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: outlawing of that before it was already going to be

737
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: done with would just make people worse off, not not

738
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: actually better off. That makes sense. Yes, well, I think

739
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: we're probably going to have to have you back on

740
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: another time to talk about some of the other topics,

741
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: but for now, I would like to highly recommend the

742
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: books that we've been talking about here, Defending the Undefendable.

743
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: The other book was The Privatization of Roads and Highways.

744
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: I will put the links to those books in the

745
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: show notes, and then you are also you're on substack,

746
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: so I'll put the link to your newsletter there, and

747
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: then you are also a professor at Loyola, and so

748
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: for anybody who is a interested in learning about freedom

749
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: in today's universities, I would recommend you to go check

750
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: out doctor Block at Loyola.

751
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on your show. It was a pleasure.

752
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: I look forward to doing it again.

753
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much for joining me, and you have

754
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: a great day you too, Bine