WEBVTT - Listener Questions: Can Pigeons Tell Time? 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.520 Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:15.040 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.440 and today on the show, it's a listener Questions episode. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:25.280 I answer all of your evolutionary biology, animal, pet, bird, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.880 and space and time questions, and I answer emails that 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.760 are sent to Creature Feature Product gmail dot com. By 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.640 the way, if you have a question you would like 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:41.080 me to answer, so let's get right into these emails 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:46.560 of amazing questions about animals. So this email is called 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.920 bird clocks Questions. Hi, Katie, I wanted to ask about 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.680 bird's ability to tell time. A couple of years ago, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.000 I had a job that had be on the same 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.920 bench every day, and I began to put out peanuts 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.320 every half hour so the pigeons would come and enact 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.319 their complex dramatic in her personal lives in front of 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:10.080 me for free entertainment. Wise choice highly suggest doing this. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.600 After a series of events that I won't get into 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.600 for fear of this email being too long, one of 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.920 the pigeons was shunned from the friend group and started 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.759 showing up to my bench a little before the half 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.800 hour mark to try and get some peanuts before anyone 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.360 else showed up. He was coming before any of the 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.360 clock towers rang, which was the indication I was using 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.120 for the half hour mark. Is it more likely that 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.000 there was some other half hourly indication of time this 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.400 pigeon was using, or that this pigeon was simply better 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.280 at telling time than I was. Thanks, Miriam, Hi, Miriam. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.920 So this is a great question. Can birds tell time? 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.040 And if so, how where do they wear their little wristwatch? 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.120 Do they even have risks? All right, first let's start 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.920 with let's focus on pigeons, because that is the bird 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:04.360 you're asking a out. So pigeons seem like relatively simple birds, 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.800 maybe not the smartest birds out there. Right. They like 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.320 our garbage, they like handouts, and they like our cities. 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.960 They don't have the sophisticated problem solving intelligent of crows 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.720 or the social intelligence of parrots. So it might be 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:23.560 surprising to find that pigeons are relatively complex in their 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:31.120 ability to reason, particularly temporal and spatial reasoning. So there 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.200 have been studies on pigeons, fortunately in regards to their 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.680 ability to navigate time and space. So a University of 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:44.440 Iowa study called quote non cortical magnitude. Coding of space 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.519 and time by pigeons looked into how pigeons processed spatial 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:55.480 and temporal information. So in humans and in other mammals, 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.880 time and space are mainly processed in the parietal cortex, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.600 an area of the brain sort of towards the back 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.079 of your head. You know, if you've ever worn a bun, 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.840 if you've ever done ballet or just worn a bun, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.440 it's kind of under that area. So the problem is 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.960 pigeons don't have a parietal cortex, and that leads to 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.560 a question can they understand time and space? So pigeons 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.480 were allowed to play a sort of pigeony computer game 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.720 in this study, so they were shown short or long lines, 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.639 like it just a line on a computer screen, and 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.040 the length differed both in geometric length like a short 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.880 line versus a long line, and the time that the 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.960 line was shown on screen, so a line that was 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.760 displayed on the screen for a longer period of time 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.840 versus a shorter period of time. So after the line 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:57.200 was shown, the pigeons were presented with two buttons symbolizing 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.200 short or long, so they were kind of trained. One 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.760 of the buttons represented short, and one of the buttons 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.720 represented long, and they were awarded when they got it right, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.120 and then they were given a novel set of questions 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:15.240 for the study. So essentially they had to press the 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.799 right answer either short in length or short in time 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.280 length for these lines, and they were rewarded with a 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.320 little treeo if they got things right, So they were 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.840 highly motivated pigeons. The researchers found a few things. First, 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.080 that pigeons can indeed make a pretty good judgment about 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:40.960 geometric length and of time length. Secondly, like humans and primates, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.280 they get messed up when you say, have a long 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.359 line shown on screen for a short amount of time, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.640 and then you ask them to give an answer about 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.280 how long is this in geometric length and how long 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.360 is this in temporal length. So mismatching like a long 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.320 a physically long line short period of time, or short 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.680 line for a long period of time kind of messes 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.680 them up. But that's not because they're necessarily stupid. It 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:11.400 also messes up us up and other mammals up. So pigeons, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:17.480 like humans and primates and mammals, may process geometric space 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:23.039 and time space similarly, maybe using similar structures in the brain. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.159 So this does show pigeons can judge duration, and they 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.840 can also judge geometric length. But how does it know 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.320 what time to go and say, seek out your peanut 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.240 offerings cleverly ahead of the other pigeons with whom I 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.520 guess this pigeon had a dramatic falling out with the 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.440 pigeon group. I'd love to be in on this pigeon 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:54.679 group chat. But regardless, pigeons can seem to tell time 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.680 throughout the day, and they likely ascertain time with both 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:03.800 an internal clock and external visual cues from the positioning 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.800 of the sun. So fortunately, there was an actual study 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.960 done in two thousand and six investigating your specific pigeon problem. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.000 There's a study called representing the Richness of Avian spatial 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:20.440 cognition properties of lateralized homing Pigeon Hippocampus. It's a long 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.080 study name, but they were looking at pigeon brains how 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:30.919 they cope with spatial temporal recognition. So the pigeons were 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.640 familiarized with an outdoor arena or an indoor lab arena, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.680 and the indoor lab had an artificial sun, so the 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.160 researchers would lay out seed only at certain times of day, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.000 and the birds were able to learn when and where 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.239 the food was, so when experimenters messed with the bird's 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.920 circadian rhythm, like by having their day night cycles messed up, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.560 the birds kept making spatial airs when it came to 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.200 finding the food, and when the researchers made a lesion 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.920 in the bird's hippocampus, they were never they were no 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.840 longer able to use the position of the sun to 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:17.600 find the food. So most likely what Miriam's pigeon is 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.600 doing to get to these peanuts before the rest of 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.160 the crowd is that they this pigeon is using its 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:30.480 own internal circadian rhythm modulated by hormones, as well as 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.320 external cues such as the position of the sun to 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.080 find your peanuts and time and space to be at 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:41.840 the correct exact location temporally and spatially so that it 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.600 will receive a peanut. Because this is what pigeons are 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.040 capable of once you motivate them. I'd be really curious 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.560 to hear if your pigeon runs a little earlier late, 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.800 depending on the weather, say it's like really overcast all day, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.720 maybe it doesn't have the sun to guide it as much. 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.160 I wonder if that would cause little mistakes. It still 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.520 has that internal circadian rhythm, so it could probably still 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.040 make a reasonable guess as to what time it is, 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:08.880 but maybe it's precision would be off a little bit. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.920 Curious to hear about that, but yeah, thank you so much, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.080 Miriam for your email for being a friend to this outcast, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:31.880 highly intelligent pigeon. Okay, so this email is called yard maintenance? 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.240 Is a bug loving hippie? Hi? I live alone for 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.280 the first time in the middle of nowhere in the country. Repeatedly, 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.840 me and my parents have butt heads on my lack 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:47.760 of yard management, i e. Grass cutting, etc. From a 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.360 biology standpoint, how do I balance having my yard be 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.480 a wild place without my parents concern of me inviting 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.040 in rats and such? Is it even that important? How 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.600 do other animals maintain their spaces so I don't feel 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.760 like an evil human for maintaining mine to other beings detriment? 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.640 Is there a bear or an animal who's obsessed with 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.640 having a flat, green lawn? Am I too much of 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.959 a hippie? Thanks so much, Love your pod. This is 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.000 from Seth Hi Seth, So this is a great question. 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.840 Humans who love nature and animals often have a bit 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.880 of a conundrum we may love wildlife, but we don't 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:30.000 want to be exploited by certain urban animals like rats, mice, ticks, mosquitoes, roaches, etc. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.240 Whose presence in our home can be gross, if not 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.760 outright dangerous to our health. So first things first, you 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.160 are not evil for maintaining your home in such a 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.280 way that is good for your health. So as much 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.760 as I love animals, including things like rats and mice, 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.240 having them in your home is not healthy. So I 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.560 don't think you should feel guilty at all for trying 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.800 to prevent that from happening. I'm very much in favor 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.840 of prioritizing your health and safety inside your home. It's 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.160 much better to try to prevent mice and rats from 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.400 getting in your home by say, making sure you don't 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.480 have food left out, a lot of nooks and crannies 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.560 for them to hide in, that your house is nice 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:20.840 and sealed, not leaving garbage bins open and accessible outside. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.319 I'll mention other techniques to keep them out of your home. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.920 So prevention is the best. So how do you keep 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.839 pests out while having a nice natural yard that's not 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:36.680 just kind of a golf course? Right? So I think 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.719 it is possible, But let's get into it, because there's 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.920 a lot of different things you can do. First of all, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.079 it kind of depends on your location, like what pests 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:52.280 really present an issue in your location, right, Like what 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.400 species of mice and rats live near where you live. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.640 It's always good to kind of be familiar with what 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.840 diseases are present in your area, right because that kind 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.559 of changes can change your risk toalants. Right Like, if 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.280 you live somewhere where lime disease is a big deal, 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.760 having tall grass might be too risky. Whereas if you 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.360 live somewhere where lime disease is not really an issue, 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.360 and there's not a lot of ticks, you know, you 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.600 might want to have long grass and that might be fine. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.880 Same thing with mice and rats. You can kind of 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:28.280 look into your area. You know, hantavirus things like that 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.600 are very very rare. I wouldn't personally, like be too 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.400 preoccupied with worrying about it, but it's always good to 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.800 kind of know if that's something that happens in your area, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.480 and just be careful of having say like sheds or 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.800 enclosed areas where mice and rats can get into where 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.040 you would go in and then breathe, because that's how 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:52.480 those kinds of diseases transmit. But yeah, so in general, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.440 just if you get familiar, like find out like where 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.679 you live, what are the pests that are the most 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.199 likely to cause your problems, and also if there's any 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.360 diseases that are occur or are common in your area 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.800 to watch out for, because again, I think it is 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.000 really important to take care of your health as much 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.880 as it is important to be friendly to wildlife. So 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.240 once you know what you're dealing with, you're going to 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.280 be better able to make risk assessments for what you're 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.800 willing to put up with. Essentially, I would say if 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.160 you live in an area with a lot of pests 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.679 like ticks especially, but also mice and rats, tall grass 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.679 is going to be a risk factor for those things 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.080 either getting on you like ticks or getting in your 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.160 home because ticks love tall grass, mice and rats love 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.319 to hide around in tall grass, So if you have 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.560 a lot of tall grass, yeah, that might be a problem. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.000 And I mean it's not even necessary. I feel like, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.959 I don't know where I've heard this notion, but I 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.840 feel like there's an idea that like dead tall grass 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.760 is bad because that's where all the ticks are, but 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.600 actually ticks really like moist environments. If you have a 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:06.040 really lush, tall wawnd, that actually might host a lot 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.160 of ticks. So if you have pets, that might be 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.760 a huge problem. And of course for you too, it 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.240 might be an issue walking around in that unless you 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:21.720 have paths that you can walk in or wear high 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.160 socks or long pants all the time. So rats, they 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.959 are attracted to yards with a lot of hiding spots 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.920 and food resources. So rats love things like wood piles. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.160 So if you've got a great woodpile right next to 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.640 your house, that might not be great if you live 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.839 somewhere or there's a lot of rats and you can't 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.640 be sure that your house is completely sealed after them, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.960 because they love being in the woodpile, and if that's 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.240 like right up next to your house, that's a nice 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:54.280 entry point for them. They also love unsecured structures, like 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.320 if you've got that old, loose, open shed, rats are 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.360 gonna love to go in there. Bird Seed, Now, this 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.760 is one that's kind of sad, right because if you 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.400 like to have a bird feeder or something out in 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.880 your yard, that's also going to attract rats. So if 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.480 rats are a problem, I would say you might actually 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.400 want to get rid of that bird feeder, maybe repace 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:18.079 it for a replace it with a bird fountain water fountain, 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.920 because that is just as if not more important than 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.200 a bird feeder for their health ause you're providing them 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.480 with a nice fresh source of flowing water, and you 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.440 will attract birds to your yard. They love bird baths, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.280 they love bird feeders. So if rats are a problem 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.600 for you, maybe switch your bird feeder with seeds for 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.520 a bird bath or a bird fountain, or have a 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.280 bird feeder that's really really secure. But that's gonna be 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.320 tough because even if it's like really secure in terms 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.760 of only birds can get at it, the birds are 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.680 going to scatter seeds around, So that's a risk factor. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.000 It's kind of up to you again, what's more important 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.960 to you and what your risk tolerance is. One way 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.320 to have your yard be a nice beacon for local 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.720 wildlife while also not being too welcoming too pests is 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:12.600 to have kind of like a semi maintained yard where 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.200 you have native plants right and can look up plants 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.520 that are native to your area. So instead of having 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.960 a lawn that gets really tall, you have a bunch 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.360 of plants that grow in your area, and then you 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.640 can kind of like groom them a bit, right, Like, 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.120 the best way to groom these plants, like to discourage 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.240 say rats from setting up shop while encouraging birds and 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.560 insects and all sorts of other animals that love these 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.280 plants is by making sure at the base of the 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.840 plant that there's not allowed of like dense ground coverage 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.840 near the base, so like sort of pruning the base 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.560 of the plant wild, maybe allowing the branches and everything 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.520 to grow as wild as you want. It's a good 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:56.560 way to have wild plants that animals like while not 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:02.520 creating sort of a suitable home for say rats. And yeah, 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.960 actually something that's kind of fun is if you live 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:12.520 in an area with hawks and owls, raptors, predators, predatory birds, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.560 having trees even dead ones can be a nice perch 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.560 for them to look out for rodents. So like, if 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.760 you have I mean this is going to depend on 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.360 your preference, probably your neighbor's preference too, And also make 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.200 sure you don't live in an area with a lot 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.680 of fire risk. Right for having dead trees in your yard, 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.080 I certainly think that you should always Again, like it's 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.720 great to be welcoming to wildlife. You got to know 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.400 the risks of your areas of wildfires, is it ticks, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.800 things like that, and then make sure you kind of 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:51.160 modify your yard to keep you safe while welcoming animals. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.880 That being said, you have like a sort of a 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.480 dead tree in your yard and you don't really want 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.280 to get rid of it, right like, you don't mind 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.200 how it looks. That's a nice perch for a hawk 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:07.760 ornel and that will also help you with your rodent problem. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.680 And living trees are also great perches for raptors. So 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.320 if you don't like the spooky dead tree asthetic haunted house, look, 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.439 don't worry. You don't need to keep dead trees in 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:25.080 your yard. You can have plenty of perches for hawks 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.960 and owls. Anyways, there is I don't know how effective 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.399 this is, but I'll throw it out there. Anyways, you 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.399 could potentially go on the offense by having plants that 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:41.840 rats actively dislike, like sage. I've read peppermint that could 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.760 offend them due to their strong smell. A note of 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.520 caution about peppermint, Apparently it's very very good at taking 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.840 over a garden or yard. So you gotta really like 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:57.000 peppermint to plant it. But yeah, I'm not really sure, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.359 Like I think if you plant those they might I 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.520 just avoid those plants specifically. I don't know that they 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.680 would avoid your whole yard, though. I think a better 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.280 strategy potentially would be to replace. Say, you know, if 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.080 you don't like mowing the lan right that's legit. I 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.840 don't like mowing the lan I don't even have a lawn. 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.359 I don't have a yard right now, so who am 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.320 I to talk. But if you don't like mowing your 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.240 lawn and you want some kind of ground cover, there's 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.560 a lot of groundcovers you can get that are really 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.840 low maintenance and also don't provide a lot of coverage 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:42.000 for animals that you may not want like rats, mice, ticks, etc. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.159 While still being welcoming to local wildlife. So again I 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.800 would definitely advise probably the best thing is if you 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.720 have access to it, if you can afford it, finding 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.800 plants that are local to you, like native plants, and 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.240 then planting those, and there might be native groundcovers for 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.320 your area, but you can also just look into other groundcovers. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:12.040 So here are some examples of ground covers that are 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.320 not so tall and thick that they would potentially welcome 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:22.639 rats in. There's clover, there's diamondia. There's creeping time, which 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.119 may repel rats with its odor. Again, I don't know. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.080 I'm a little skeptical of the repellent plants when it 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.120 comes to rats. I think rats are pretty stubborn when 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.920 they want to get somewhere. There's, honestly, so a lot 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.639 of choices that you can find something that works with 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:43.119 your aesthetic preferences, your yard maintenance preferences. Right, Like, if 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:44.879 you kind of want to set it and forget it, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.159 you can probably find a creeping ground cover that is 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.520 helpful for that. Just yeah, do a little bit of 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.439 research into it, look into it. Some ground covers can 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.200 be really aggressive, so it might actually require more maintenance 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:01.520 than you would like. So yeah, but there are ground 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.159 covers other than grass that don't really require mowing. But 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.479 we'll also keep your yard from becoming like a haven 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.560 for ticks and rats. But I hope I've given you 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.080 a range of options that might be helpful for you 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.360 going forward. All right, So this email is called cats 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:26.639 can't Taste Sweet, but dot dot dot very suspenseful. Hi, Katie, 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:31.400 I know cats can't taste sweet, meaning they can't taste sweetness. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.960 But my terrible tabby Phantom makes me think he can. 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.200 He is constantly trying to lick my beer when he 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:41.200 thinks I'm not looking. He will even lick coffee mugs 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.919 if they are forgotten to be put back in the kitchen. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.000 One time I was eating white chocolate and Phantom was 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.600 so persistent. I gave him a very tiny piece, thinking 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.720 he wouldn't like it. He chowed down and then wanted more. 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.440 He did not get any more. By the way, I've 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.560 never known a cat to be so particular about what 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.760 they want to eat eat. I know some cats like 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.080 people food, but why is he drawn to all these 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.199 sweet things? Thank you for the pod and for answering 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.639 all our questions. Melissa, So, I just did in a 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.840 photo from the alleged sweet thief, and he looks really 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:16.760 innocent to me. I don't know what to tell you. Melissa, 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:22.560 looks innocent. Innocent before proven guilty, is what I say. 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.400 But to answer your question, this is really interesting. First, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:32.399 let's address the baseline premise, right, can cats taste sweet things? 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.640 So most of the evidence indicates that cats can't taste 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.520 sugar in the same way that we do right When 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:45.800 we taste sugar in general, we go bananas. We love it. 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.080 It tastes really good to us. The two thousand and 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:53.840 six study cats Lack a sweet Taste receptor found that 0:21:53.920 --> 0:22:00.600 cats have an unexpressed tasks one R two gene, and 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:06.080 that is one of the two known genes that controls 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:10.320 sweet taste receptors. So the other gene tests one or three, 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.119 seems to function fine in cats. So it's not that 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:18.720 they completely lack any genes that could potentially detect sweet taste. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.000 It's that one of the main ones does not seem 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.520 to function. And also, there have been studies that show 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.679 cats do not seem to have a preference for sugar 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.960 at all, they don't seem to be attracted to it. 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.719 So many have interpreted this study as evidence that cats 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.359 categorically cannot taste sweet right, like, they just can't taste 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.840 it in the same way we can't taste blue, or 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.600 you can't taste blue, you amateurs. So I think it 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.160 might be more nuanced than cats just not being able 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:55.120 to detect sweetness at all. I think it does show 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.399 they definitely have a difference in gene expression when it 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.960 comes to the ability to detect sweetness, which I think 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.200 for it might make it a really weak flavor, right 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:08.760 they might some cats may not be able to taste 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.600 it at all, some you know, maybe just really weak 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:15.800 and they don't really notice it. The study also goes 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.119 on to talk about how there are individual differences of 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.600 gene expression for these genes and cats, so that leaves 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.160 us with a few interesting possibilities. So one is that 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.359 most cats cannot taste sugar, but some cats have a 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.440 mutation that allow them to express that tas one or 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:36.160 two gene or another related gene that actually allows them 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:42.960 to taste the sweet better. Another option is that most 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:45.720 cats have a weak ability to taste sugar, like it's 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.520 not very strong. Maybe they don't even notice it, so 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.560 they're typically unresponsive to it. But there are some cats who, 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:57.959 due to genetic variability, have a stronger response to sugar, 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.119 maybe stronger taste in general, right like in humans we 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.320 have supertasters who have more taste buds on their tongue. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:07.800 And then the other option is that it is simply 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.280 not possible for any cat to taste sugar, regardless of 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:15.399 gene expression. So all these things I think are plausible. 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:20.159 I lean more towards the more variable response, where some 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.399 cats might be able to detect it really weakly, and 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:27.720 maybe for some very particular cats with a particular gene 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.320 mutation or a supertaster can actually taste it more strongly. 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:36.040 That would be my guess. But all these things are possible. 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:41.199 So yeah. The reason I lean towards maybe cats not 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:45.080 being absolutely in no circumstance being able to taste sweetness 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:49.639 is because the genes for sugar tasting is there, just 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.400 that one of them does normally doesn't function. So they 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.399 have like the recipes right for being able to taste sugar, 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:00.000 and one of them functions. Maybe that doesn't do any 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:03.679 and one of them typically doesn't function, but maybe in 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:09.439 some cats it actually is expressed more so, Yeah, it 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.560