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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: John Than Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio

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Speaker 1: and how the tech area. It's time for a classic

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Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff. This episode is titled Photo Editing

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Speaker 1: and Manipulation Art one, So I guess you can probably

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Speaker 1: make an educated guess about what next week's classic episode

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Speaker 1: is going to be. This episode originally published on August

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Speaker 1: thirty one, two thousand fifteen. Dylan, who at the time

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Speaker 1: was sort of working in our our social media and

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Speaker 1: marketing areas, was a guest host on this one. Now

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Speaker 1: Dylan is a managing executive producer with I Heart, So

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Speaker 1: the dude is a superstar at I Heart really is

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Speaker 1: an incredible person, does incredible work. By way back then,

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Speaker 1: Dylan was fairly new and uh so I decided to

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Speaker 1: show in the ropes and have them on to talk

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Speaker 1: about manipulating photos online for fun and profit. Enjoy. Dylan

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Speaker 1: has generously offered up some of his precious time to

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Speaker 1: jump into the studio to talk about photo manipulation and

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Speaker 1: photo editing. So this is going to be a two

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Speaker 1: part podcast. We know that starting off, we're gonna concentrate

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Speaker 1: on sort of the pre digital era for this first episode,

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Speaker 1: and then our next one will be kind of the

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Speaker 1: various techniques and motivations behind photo manipulation and the post

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Speaker 1: digital era where we're no longer talking necessarily about physical

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Speaker 1: media but lots of zeros and ones instead. But the

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me is that photo manipulation has

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Speaker 1: been around almost as long as photography has, and in

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Speaker 1: large part because of the limitation of photography, especially the

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Speaker 1: early days, it was kind of seen early on as Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: we have the foundation down, now how do we make

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Speaker 1: up for all the things that we can't do at

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Speaker 1: least yet. You know, you don't know in their mind

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Speaker 1: if they knew that was going to be a possibility

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Speaker 1: in the future, but um, it kind of gave them

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Speaker 1: the ability to add to a photo what cameras were

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Speaker 1: not able to do at the moment. Yeah. Yeah, those

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Speaker 1: early cameras were incredibly limited. And uh, you know, it

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Speaker 1: helps if we take kind of a step back and

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Speaker 1: look at a little bit of history. And by a

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Speaker 1: little bit of history, I mean I've created a timeline

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Speaker 1: to kind of walk us through the early development no

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Speaker 1: pun intended. Okay, no, that was definitely a pun intended

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Speaker 1: of photography. So before we get to any photography at all,

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Speaker 1: before we get to the point where we're recording light

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Speaker 1: onto some medium, we can talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the camera obscura, which was not necessarily about recording recording images,

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Speaker 1: but more about projecting them. Yes, and this is ancient technology.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about it, the basic technology

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Speaker 1: was a dark chamber or room through which you have

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Speaker 1: a hole in one wall and then you can project

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Speaker 1: across the on the opposite wall. Yeah, and uh, what

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Speaker 1: you saw on the opposite wall would be correct in perspective,

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Speaker 1: but it would be eight degrees rotating hundred degrees. It

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Speaker 1: would be upside down. Yeah. So I I have often

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Speaker 1: seen this used as a way for artists who wanted

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Speaker 1: to do a big wall mural. For example, they would

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Speaker 1: have an image on one side, so it would be

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Speaker 1: projected large on the opposite where they could actually trace

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Speaker 1: things out, although not all artists were very capable of

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Speaker 1: doing this, and it wouldn't be until the Renaissance. Like

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Speaker 1: even though the technology itself was thousands of years old,

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Speaker 1: in the sense that the ancient Chinese and Greek we're

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Speaker 1: using the sort of yeah, it really does. It's always

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Speaker 1: like it's always like, well, you have you got to

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Speaker 1: look to the Middle East and you gotta look to

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Speaker 1: China for some of these amazing developments that took a

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Speaker 1: long time to make their way to the Western world.

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Speaker 1: But in the Renaissance, there was an Italian writer named

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Speaker 1: Gia Batista de la Porta who was really the first

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Speaker 1: to use a lens arrangement in camera scarre. So it

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Speaker 1: was more than just the simple hole or a mirror.

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Speaker 1: It was a lens. And uh, that's where we started

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Speaker 1: really calling it camera obscura. And then you move ahead

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Speaker 1: about a hundred two hundred years to seventy seven, and

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Speaker 1: that's when a gentleman by the name of Johann Heinrich

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Speaker 1: Schulz uh noticed something really odd. In fact, it was

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Speaker 1: something that other people had noticed, but he was the

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Speaker 1: one who actually put two and two together. We're talking

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Speaker 1: silver salts here. Now, silver salts, when exposed to light, uh,

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Speaker 1: get darker. And this is a major part of early photography.

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Speaker 1: But for a long time people thought that it was

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Speaker 1: heat that made the salts turn dark. Now, what Schultz

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Speaker 1: did was he had an experiment where he he had

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Speaker 1: essentially a surface covered in silver salts, and he put

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Speaker 1: a covering over it so that he could spell out

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Speaker 1: a word in the silver salt and then expose that

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Speaker 1: to light, and it made those salts turn dark. So

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Speaker 1: he actually could spell out words using light this way,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't have any way of preserving it. There's

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Speaker 1: no way for him to keep this so that it

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Speaker 1: would permanently have this word. In fact, as soon as

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Speaker 1: you remove the covering and the rest of the salts

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Speaker 1: are exposed to light, everything turns dark. So it's like

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Speaker 1: you have a temporary image. It's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: Snapchat of its day. Yeah, that a very very kind

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Speaker 1: of simple snapchat where someone would have to be in

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Speaker 1: there with you and be like, all right, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to look at this right now, because as soon

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Speaker 1: as I turn on the light, this sucker, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's time. Will be very limited a latent image. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: in a way that like if you see something very

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Speaker 1: bright and you close your eyes, right there it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be until the eighteen twenties. That's when

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Speaker 1: a fellow by the name of Anissa four Neepsie thank

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Speaker 1: you for pronouncing that that's a guess, my French jump.

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Speaker 1: Papa francis bien malorism So I am not very good

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Speaker 1: with the French pronunciation. I haven't had French since high school,

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Speaker 1: so I apologize for butchering the name. But he developed

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Speaker 1: a technique to use light in order to make copies

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Speaker 1: of engravings. And what he would do is he would

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Speaker 1: take it engraving and covered in oil and then he

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Speaker 1: would put the engraving on a plate that was coated

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Speaker 1: with a combination of lavender oil and vitamin of Judea,

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Speaker 1: which is a light sensitive material. And yeah, and he

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Speaker 1: had the first successful image in eighteen sixteen. Yeah, amazing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like he was able to use this and he called

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Speaker 1: the process heliography, meaning from the sun to right, so

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Speaker 1: it was close to photography, but he was calling it heliography.

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Speaker 1: By eighteen twenty six he was using that process on

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Speaker 1: lots of stuff like lithographic stone, on glass, on zinc,

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Speaker 1: and on pewter plates. And in eight he used a

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Speaker 1: camera obscura computer plate to produce a photograph from nature.

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Speaker 1: It was an image of the courtyard of his estate.

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Speaker 1: It was taken from an upstairs balcony and over the

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Speaker 1: course of eight hours. Yes, it took a number of hours. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the real issue where with these early approaches

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Speaker 1: is that they had not perfected the chemistry necessary to

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Speaker 1: have this reaction of light that would affect chemicals in

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Speaker 1: such a way as to preserve an image. What's really

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Speaker 1: funny is that the lens technology was much farther ahead

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Speaker 1: from the start than the chemist street and a lot

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Speaker 1: of early photography was really only limited by the chemicals involved. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you would end up having these super long exposure

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Speaker 1: times in the in some cases it meant that the

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Speaker 1: the image you produced is otherworldly because in the case

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Speaker 1: of this one with a courtyard, the lights coming from

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Speaker 1: the sun, and it's over the course of eight hours,

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Speaker 1: which reads, the sun starts in the east and ends

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Speaker 1: in the west, So in the finished image you have

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Speaker 1: light from the sun shining from both directions. It's as if,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously, we don't live in a world where

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Speaker 1: you can really do that in a in an instant.

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Speaker 1: You would have to have this long exposure time in

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Speaker 1: order to achieve that, so kind of a special effect

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Speaker 1: just by the very limitation of the media itself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the exposure time is early on would would make things,

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Speaker 1: like you said, look very otherworldly. And it was just

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Speaker 1: because it was out of necessity, that's what they had. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have any option really like, it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with shutter speed or any

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Speaker 1: of the other stuff we talked about with cameras. It

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Speaker 1: had specifically to do with the limitation of the materials,

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Speaker 1: the chemicals they were using. By eighteen thirty three, that's

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Speaker 1: when we first start seeing the term photograph being used. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, it was apparently coined by a fellow

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Speaker 1: named Hercules Florence or Hercule floren if you want to

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Speaker 1: be fancy. Uh. He coined the term, using it to

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Speaker 1: describe a process in which he used paper with silver

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Speaker 1: salts to produce prints of drawings. However, his work actually

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Speaker 1: largely took place in Brazil, and because Brazil was so

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Speaker 1: far removed from all the other areas that we're looking

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Speaker 1: into this mostly in Europe, his work remained largely unknown

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Speaker 1: until the nineteen seventies. And I would like to notice

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Speaker 1: is his really interesting work. It's something to look into.

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Speaker 1: He had some nice photographs. Yeah. Yeah, And and our

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Speaker 1: next fellow who made a big impression on photography is

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Speaker 1: one that probably most people have heard, at least heard

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Speaker 1: the technology named after him. That would be uh, Louis Jacquemond,

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Speaker 1: the gear type. Yeah. So he used the camera obscura

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Speaker 1: in a plate of iodized silver, which would allow him

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Speaker 1: to create a latent image of a scene. That's what

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Speaker 1: Dylan was talking about just a minute ago. And he

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Speaker 1: found that if you expose that plate to mercury vapor,

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Speaker 1: the exposed parts of the image, the ones that had

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Speaker 1: been exposed to light, would become visible, so it would develop.

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Speaker 1: This is where we start talking about developing photographs, and

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Speaker 1: that approach reduced the exposure times needed eventually from eight

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Speaker 1: hours down to around half an hour ish um using

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Speaker 1: this particular approach, But there was a drawback. If the

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Speaker 1: developed picture was exposed to light, like after you've taken it,

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Speaker 1: then the unexposed areas of silver would continue to darken

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Speaker 1: and eventually the image would become impossible to see. Dylan

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Speaker 1: and I will be back in just a moment to

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Speaker 1: talk more about photo editing and manipulation after these messages.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that you have a photograph in your hand and

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Speaker 1: you take it out anywhere where there's light, and it

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Speaker 1: would just gradually become a dark picture, like there will

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Speaker 1: be no no, no way of distinguishing what was there before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like like before you expose film and a film camera,

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Speaker 1: if anyone's ever done that, you have to go into

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Speaker 1: a pitch black room to do so because once you

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Speaker 1: open the back of the light tight camera, when if

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Speaker 1: you have that film exposed to the you know, to light,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just gonna go completely dark. You're not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to take any photographs with that role

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Speaker 1: of film right now, Dylan, have you ever worked in

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Speaker 1: the dark room? I have, yes, So what is what

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Speaker 1: is it like when you are doing something like that,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, the we've seen movies with the process

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Speaker 1: where you've got the people with like the three or

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Speaker 1: four different little basins filled with fluid and there's never

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Speaker 1: any explanation of what was actually happening. It is it's

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Speaker 1: an updated version of something like the GEA was doing.

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Speaker 1: The chemicals are a lot less dangerous, Yeah right, we're

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Speaker 1: not using mercury rap, You're a lot less likely to

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Speaker 1: go crazy or catch on fire. Yes, yes, but it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a process. But it's something that I think

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Speaker 1: if you're interested in photography, you should. You should try

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Speaker 1: the development process, um because from going into the closet

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Speaker 1: to load your film, figuring out how to open something

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Speaker 1: and put it in the back of the camera in

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Speaker 1: Pitch Black, is is a lot of it's frustrating, but

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. And then you you know,

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Speaker 1: even to the I don't want to get to ahead

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Speaker 1: of us, but the photo the process of taking the

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Speaker 1: photographs a lot different because you realize you have, like

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Speaker 1: of the thirties six shots and so it's it's not

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Speaker 1: like on your phone or on your digital camera, which

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Speaker 1: is which is great freedom, but you think I paid

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Speaker 1: I paid money for this film, and it makes you

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Speaker 1: much more selective and careful. And and not only that,

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Speaker 1: but I mean even that is a huge step from

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, where taking a single image

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Speaker 1: required so much effort just the not just the taking it,

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Speaker 1: but the developing of that single image took so much

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Speaker 1: effort that obviously the composition of your shot was really

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Speaker 1: important and if you mess that up, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a day's work. In some cases, that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: for one image. It's it's easy for us to forget

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Speaker 1: that in the realm of selfies that we have today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'll definitely be relying upon you heavily when we

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Speaker 1: start talking about manipulation in this world. But to get

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Speaker 1: back to the history, just a couple more points I

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Speaker 1: want to make. Uh, so we've got to air who

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Speaker 1: starts solving the problem of this image immediately disappearing if

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Speaker 1: you were to expose it to light by using ordinary

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Speaker 1: table salt. Actually, yeah, he put it in a water solution.

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Speaker 1: You got your sodium chloride solution. He would use that

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Speaker 1: to dissolve the unexposed silver iodide that was left on

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Speaker 1: the paper. So that way the exposed stuff had already

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Speaker 1: been exposed. It's fine, you dissolve everything else, so now

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Speaker 1: that stuff can't end up going dark, and you're left

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Speaker 1: with your image, and you could fix it permanently because

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Speaker 1: light can no longer ruin them. And uh, Eventually the

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Speaker 1: Gara would find a way of producing photographs on silvered

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Speaker 1: copper plate, which was kind of his his medium of

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Speaker 1: choice from that point forward. Meanwhile, there was another fellow,

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Speaker 1: William Henry Fox Talbot, who was working on a different

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Speaker 1: approach to create photographic images of scientific observations. The reason

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Speaker 1: all right, he was a scientist, not he wasn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: interested in photogra if he originally he was interested in science.

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Speaker 1: But he had a problem. He couldn't draw at all.

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Speaker 1: He had like he would try all these sort of

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Speaker 1: things so that he would just trace using a camera.

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Speaker 1: Obscura didn't matter. He found himself incapable of doing that.

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Speaker 1: I find myself sympathizing heavily with him. I have a

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Speaker 1: distinct lack of artistic ability when it comes to that.

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Speaker 1: So he wanted to find a way to preserve scientific

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Speaker 1: observations exactly as they were and record them in a

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Speaker 1: way that would not require him to draw in any way, shape,

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Speaker 1: or fashion. So he started to look into a way

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Speaker 1: to create photographic prints on paper, not using plates like

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Speaker 1: the gear was using. So he used paper soaked in

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Speaker 1: solutions of sodium chloride and silver nitrate in order to

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Speaker 1: produce silver chloride infused paper. And if he exposed that

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Speaker 1: paper to light, it would cause the exposed parts to

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Speaker 1: become dark, and that would create a negative image. If

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Speaker 1: he took another sheet of this and put it against

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Speaker 1: the one that had been exposed, and then exposed that

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Speaker 1: to light, that would create a positive image. On the

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Speaker 1: second sheet, and for the first time you could get

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Speaker 1: hypothetically more than one print from a picture. Yes, you

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Speaker 1: were not limited to whatever the original plate was. Now

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Speaker 1: you could produce multiple prints, assuming that everything stayed intact.

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Speaker 1: Through this process, which was painstaking, it was still not

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Speaker 1: easy to do um and in fact, there were times

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Speaker 1: where it took some experimentation with this approach to get

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Speaker 1: it to work just right, because often they were having

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Speaker 1: quality issues with transferring the image from the negative to

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Speaker 1: the the secondary sheet. And it wasn't until thirty nine

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Speaker 1: that Talbot felt that he had really nailed it. He

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Speaker 1: had actually talked with his friend and astronomer named Sir

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Speaker 1: John herschel Uh in a way to fix the negatives

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Speaker 1: using sodium thiosulfate which at the time they called sodium

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Speaker 1: hypo sulfate, and found that that was what allowed it.

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Speaker 1: And then then he heard about the gear and he thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: because this is the era of everyone trying to get

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Speaker 1: patents for things to protect their ideas so that other

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Speaker 1: folks don't just run away with them. So he immediately

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Speaker 1: rushes to publication to beat the French to the punch

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Speaker 1: because he knew that the French publication about the Gears

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Speaker 1: work was coming, so he said, well, I can't drag

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Speaker 1: my feet on this and rushed ahead. Uh and this

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Speaker 1: is a story we hear over and over again in technology.

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Speaker 1: It's not you know. Radio was another big one like that,

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Speaker 1: so television as well. So eighteen forty was the March.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen forty was really when the first photography studio that

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Speaker 1: we know of opened, And it was in New York

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Speaker 1: City and it was it was called the Dagaron Parlor

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Speaker 1: and it was operated by Alexander Woolcott. And uh so

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Speaker 1: you finally had a place. It was open to the public.

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Speaker 1: It was no longer these uh, the scientists, physicists, researchers

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Speaker 1: and others who were all interested in this concept. Now

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Speaker 1: it was something that ordinary people could have some access to,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of a long road to making photography very personal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and also the birth of our era of narcissism. That's

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Speaker 1: probably being unkind, uh andund Around this time you also

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Speaker 1: started to see improvements in both lens design, camera design,

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Speaker 1: and the chemical processes that meant that development time had

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Speaker 1: decreased significantly enough where you could sit for a portrait

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Speaker 1: without having to stay absolutely still for three hours, which

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Speaker 1: that's good, you know. Suddenly, suddenly portraiture became more of

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Speaker 1: an attainable thing for families, and it became very popular

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Speaker 1: pretty early on, especially by the eighteen sixties to the

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighties, it became it was a huge movement at

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Speaker 1: that point. And there are lots more things that happened

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Speaker 1: from that point forward. Obviously, there was the development of

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Speaker 1: calo type, which is a negative development process that Talbot

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Speaker 1: had created that made photography on paper more practical by

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Speaker 1: reducing the exposure times down to one minute. Pretty incredible

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Speaker 1: at the time. Stereoscopic photography became a thing. That's when

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Speaker 1: you take two images using cameras or lenses that approximate

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Speaker 1: the distance of a person's eyes. One of those, oh

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Speaker 1: you did, and that was very popular during the Civil War. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was exactly. Yeah, you would take you would take

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Speaker 1: these two images and then you would use something called

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Speaker 1: usually called a stereoscope, which was essentially a kind of

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Speaker 1: a pair of glasses that held the two images at

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Speaker 1: a certain distance from your eyes, so when you looked

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Speaker 1: at it, it creates the illusion of depth. It's essentially

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Speaker 1: a primitive three D and a lot of them you

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Speaker 1: could adjust the lenses back and forth until the image

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Speaker 1: came in focus for you. Right, Yeah, because of course

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Speaker 1: not everyone is like our Our focal points are a

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Speaker 1: little different. Uh. It's the same thing that we see

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Speaker 1: now with various headsets where you have ways to adjust

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Speaker 1: the lenses so that if your eyes are a little

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Speaker 1: set a little further apart, are a little closer together,

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Speaker 1: because a tiny difference from the average can mean you

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Speaker 1: have a very different experience than someone who is closer.

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Speaker 1: To the end, you can still do the exact same

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Speaker 1: thing on a digital s l R through the viewfinder.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can just set it up for because sometimes you'll

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Speaker 1: pick up someone else's and and you're like, wow, this

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Speaker 1: person has very different eyes than I do. And also

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Speaker 1: you can get a very similar effect to this using Uh.

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Speaker 1: There there are apps on phones now that do essentially

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Speaker 1: the same thing that this is doing, only they're using

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Speaker 1: the the software in an app that like a Google

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Speaker 1: Cardboard is an example where you actually go and you

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Speaker 1: buy a little cardboard headset and you turn your phone

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Speaker 1: landscape side, you activate the Google Cardboard app, you slide

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Speaker 1: it into the headset, and now you've got your own

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Speaker 1: little virtual reality headset. It's based on the exact same

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Speaker 1: principle as this photography. It's just in that case you're

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Speaker 1: talking about more like video animation that kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: rather than still photography, but it's the same idea. Then

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Speaker 1: there was the wet Colodeon process, which I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I'm even saying that correctly. Yes, Oh, excellent, that

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Speaker 1: was used to make glass negatives and was much faster

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Speaker 1: than earlier methods, provided that you were able to work quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you it it kind of birth digital. I

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Speaker 1: mean not that it kind of birthed the portable dark room. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because if you had everything with you, you could do

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Speaker 1: it in like fifteen minutes, that's which was incredible speed

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Speaker 1: compared to the previous methods. Yeah, and you could have

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Speaker 1: huge glass plates. Yeah, so you can make enormous negatives. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So the challenge here is that the the method relied

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Speaker 1: upon the glass retaining that that moisture on it that

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Speaker 1: was used for the process, and if it dried out,

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Speaker 1: then your negative was ruined. So you had to work

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Speaker 1: quickly in order for you to be able to take

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Speaker 1: advantage of this. But on the flip side, the process

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Speaker 1: itself was very fast, So that was a big advance

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Speaker 1: and then there was an even larger one a little

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Speaker 1: bit later, which was the dry plate technology. I was

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Speaker 1: developed by an English physician named Wretcher Richard Leech Maddox

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Speaker 1: in eight seventy one UM, which eliminates some of the

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Speaker 1: drawbacks of the glass approach. You didn't have to have

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Speaker 1: the plate remain wet for the whole process. We'll have

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Speaker 1: a bit more to talk about with photo editing and

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Speaker 1: manipulation after this quick break. Early manipulation, sometimes it was

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Speaker 1: again it was perfectly innocent. It might be that you

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Speaker 1: take an image and you look at the negative and

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Speaker 1: you realize from the net negative that there is a

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Speaker 1: flaw of some sort, So you might alter the negative

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Speaker 1: a little bit before creating a print so that you

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Speaker 1: can compensate for some error that was made. Either the

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Speaker 1: exposure wasn't quite right, the lighting wasn't quite right, or

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Speaker 1: the subject moved or whatever. That may be the same

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Speaker 1: thing that we do today. Yeah, So it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a sinister or unethical uh motivation to manipulate a photo,

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Speaker 1: but there are those as well. So if you look

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Speaker 1: at some of the earlier edits, sometimes it meant that

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Speaker 1: you would alter the negative. As I had mentioned, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you would alter a print, um, in which case you might.

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Speaker 1: In fact, early because we were limited to black and

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Speaker 1: white photography, you had some people who would present make photographs.

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Speaker 1: So make a make a print of a photograph or

401
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Speaker 1: a negative rather and then turn it over to an

402
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Speaker 1: artist who might actually add color by painting over the photograph.

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Speaker 1: You want blue skies, you know, you a little pan

404
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah. Yeah, it's the best solution to the

405
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Speaker 1: problem at the time. So that was a type of

406
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: photo manipulation. I mean, it was one that everyone was

407
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Speaker 1: aware of, but it was still a way of manipulating

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Speaker 1: the photos. Uh. You could also do things like you

409
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Speaker 1: could do a composite uh picture where that's a little

410
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Speaker 1: bit odd. Honestly, this was one of those things that

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Speaker 1: I understand the basics of, but I don't know how

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Speaker 1: it would actually happen. But generally speaking, you would use

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Speaker 1: two or more negatives to produce a single print, and

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of composites out there for They

415
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: were done for various reasons, sometimes in order to include

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Speaker 1: a person who was not able to be present at

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Speaker 1: a particular photo session, or to create a particular artistic feel.

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Speaker 1: There's some really famous artists who composed amazing pictures using

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Speaker 1: as many as fifty or more negatives in order to

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Speaker 1: achieve it. And honestly, at that point, I'm like, you

421
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: guys aremagish. I don't know how this works. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as far as photo montage, photo manipulation goes, there are

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Speaker 1: people like Jerry Yulesman who goes into a dark room,

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Speaker 1: takes fifty negative splices them up with an exact o

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Speaker 1: knife and makes a print and you you can't tell.

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Speaker 1: It's like someone using photoshop in their wizard, but it's

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00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: all analog. But early on you had you had Matthew Brady,

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Speaker 1: who I like to think of and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people think of him this way as the

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Speaker 1: first celebrity photographer who had a studio, and he took

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Speaker 1: portraits of almost every politician around that period around like

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Speaker 1: the Civil War era, um and he had two very

433
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: famous manipulations, one that he did not do, but one

434
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: of his photographs was used for part of it. I'm

435
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 1: guessing that's the Lincoln one. The Lincoln portrait that is

436
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: his it's his head, um that Matthew Brady took that photograph.

437
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: It's the same one that's used on the five dollar

438
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: bill exactly. And the body was of John Calhoun was

439
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: Southerner entirely, and it was too. It was because during

440
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: Lincoln's life they felt like they didn't have enough heroic

441
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: photographs of Lincoln. Yes, this is an iconic picture of

442
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: what appears to be Lincoln standing in front of a desk,

443
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: and there's like an American flag in the picture, and uh,

444
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: there's um, you know, it's a it's a very striking photograph,

445
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: it is. And what's really interesting to me is even

446
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: back then, the amount of manipulation in that photograph, Uh,

447
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: that there are papers on the table, and when it

448
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: was a portrait of John Calhoun, the words on the

449
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: table that you could read where strict constitution, free trade,

450
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: and the sovereignty of the States. But the Lincoln version

451
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: says Constitution, Union and the Proclamation of Freedom. That's fascinating

452
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: that they were able to get to that level of

453
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: granularity in the change. And you know, there there are

454
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: lots of different ways of achieving this sort of stuff.

455
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: I mean, there was the you know, you could go

456
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: to the negative and you could change the negative by

457
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: splicing stuff together, and then producing a print, or you

458
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: could do something where you're literally cutting and pasting, but

459
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: you're doing it on the print, and then you take

460
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: a photograph of the print, developed that and that becomes

461
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: your new photographs. So in other words, you can take

462
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: two pictures and you literally cut out the image of

463
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: something that you want from one, paste it over top

464
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: the image that already exists, take a photo of it,

465
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: develop it, and that could be a way of doing

466
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: it too. That's so interesting because that's something that I

467
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: think a lot of people did in elementary school, is

468
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: that they went through magazines for projects and I would

469
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: cut out one part and put it over another part.

470
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: Is very much like collage. It's yeah, and and there

471
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 1: was the picture Matthew Brady did of US S. S. Grant,

472
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: and that's supposed to be of him in front of

473
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: his troops in City Point, Virginia. Yeah, but it's not. No,

474
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: it's actually three different photos all meshed together. Uh. It's

475
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: it's the body of Major General Alexander M. M. Cook

476
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: And uh, then it's the head of Ulysses S. Grant

477
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: on top of the body. So the body is on

478
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: a horse, So it's Ulysses S. Grant on the body

479
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: of this other general major general, and the people in

480
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: the background are not Union soldiers, their Confederate prisoners. Yeah,

481
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: so it's it's it's that's a very interesting photo especially.

482
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: I think that's an early example of UM. I wouldn't

483
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: say that it was meant to deceive as much, but

484
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: of maybe misinformation. Yeah, you could argue, you know, you

485
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: could call it propaganda if you like. It was really

486
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: meant to create again, this heroic image. In fact, a

487
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: lot of the pictures that for political manipulation are really

488
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: about elevating a particular person to make them seem more

489
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: iconic and or or eliminate things that elevated person no

490
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: longer liked. Very military based for the most well, yeah,

491
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of military ones. Uh. Yeah.

492
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: There's also the the General Francis P. P. Blair being

493
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: added to a group of of other generals, including General Sherman.

494
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: So this is a group. If you see the two

495
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: different photos, you'll see one where there's a group of

496
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: generals sitting together, and then the second photo there's an

497
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: extra general sitting way off to the right. Yeah, that

498
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: was that other Matthew Brady image I was speaking of.

499
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: And it's also really well done. Yeah, yeah, I mean

500
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: it's he's he's definitely feels a little ostracized. But other

501
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: than that, it looks like he fits it does. Yeah,

502
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't. Maybe they felt like he wasn't as

503
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: important for it was a little bit over in the corner.

504
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: You're gonna go sit up the kid's table and let

505
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: the adult generals talk about the war over here. Yeah,

506
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: but it looks good. Yeah, it does look good. And

507
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: that is also really interesting to me because it was

508
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: clear that even early on, those photographers who are working

509
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: with this medium and trying to you create these composite

510
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: images or manipulate these photos in some way already had

511
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: an innate understanding of if I want to do this

512
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: and make it look right, lighting is really important. I

513
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: can't ignore the fact that a scene lit from the

514
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: left and as subject who's lit from the right that

515
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: I've added in later are going to look wrong. Yeah,

516
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: I mean they're even now. There are a lot of

517
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: photos released by by very professional agencies that don't take

518
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: as much of that into consideration as even some of

519
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: these people a d fifty years ago, right, and those

520
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: images get torn apart on Reddit. They do you can

521
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: go to Reddit and you'll just see people saying, well,

522
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: this is clearly photoshop because if you look at the

523
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: shadows they're on the you know, blah blah blah blah blah,

524
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: you can tell that the lighting is higher into the

525
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: left instead of low into the right or whatever. In

526
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: some cases it's really subtle and uh, and it's people

527
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: who have a greater attention span and better sense of

528
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: detail than idea. I'll look at it go like, holy cow,

529
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: you're right, Like I didn't notice it before. But yeah,

530
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: there's still some other really cool ones that I can

531
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: talk about. Like in eighteen seventy, photographer William H. Mummler

532
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: used double exposure. So that's another way of editing and

533
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: manipulating photos that we can talk about for a second.

534
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: He used double exposure to create what people have dubbed

535
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: spirit photography. Now, double exposure is exactly what it sounds like.

536
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: It's exposing the same whatever photographic medium, whether it's film

537
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: or a plate or whatever, to light twice, so you

538
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: can create kind of a double image look. And usually

539
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: one of those looks kind of transparent, like a weaker

540
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: image than the other one. And sometimes this was used

541
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: for artistic effect like that. I saw one that was

542
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: of an actor who in what in his in his

543
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: regular pose the darker pose, stood very tall and dignified,

544
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: and in the second post he's bent over with his

545
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: hands stretched out, kind of like a like a classic

546
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: universal monster. And the first thing I thought when I

547
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: saw it was that's a perfect photograph if you want

548
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: to get across the concept of Jekyl and hide. But

549
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: that was not what the intent was from what I

550
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: was reading. But as I saw it, I just thought

551
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that was the immediate reaction I had. And Uh, in

552
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: this case, a mumbler used double exposures on a pretty

553
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 1: famous person, Mary Todd Lincoln. Yes, so there's this image

554
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: of Mary Todd seated and behind her is the ghostly

555
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: apparition of Abraham Lincoln and he even has his hands

556
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: on her shoulders and you could see through his hands

557
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: to her shoulders. It's pretty effective, and it helps because

558
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: he was lanky. It really does kindlish. Yeah, and and

559
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: again this is just achieved through double exposure. Some people

560
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: do this just for artistic effect. There have been cases

561
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: where people have used double exposure specifically to mislead or deceive,

562
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: but in this case, I wouldn't. I would. I would

563
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: argue that it wasn't necessarily meant to do that. It

564
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: was more of a memorium for someone at least that's

565
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: the implication. I feel. There were definitely ghost or spirit

566
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: photographers who took it a different way, and we're claiming

567
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: to get pictures of spirits. Yeah, like the ectoplasm uh

568
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: photography as well, just that whole I mean that that

569
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: gets past photography. But there are a lot of pictures

570
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: with people with cheese cloths coming out of there, right, yeah,

571
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: cheese cloth. That's like that's a go to for hoaxer's. Um. Yeah,

572
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: And I promise when we get to we'll probably save

573
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: it for post digital. But I gotta talk to you

574
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: about orbs, So we'll chat about orbs in the post

575
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: digital section. But I've got my favorite story of PHO. No,

576
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: it's not even photo manipulation, it's just trickery. I bet

577
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: it is. Does the year nineteen kind of fit into that? Fairies? Yes,

578
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the fairies. Okay, So Dylan,

579
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: you don't know this about me when I was but

580
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: it's not a surprise because I was a kid once.

581
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, Uh, and I was going

582
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: to elementary school. I would check out all the books

583
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: on ghosts and monsters and folklore, and I would read

584
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: them cover to cover, and I would check him out again. Excellent.

585
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: So I will never forget when I was reading about

586
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and two young girls and a

587
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: bunch of fairies out in the woods. And the two

588
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: young girls were cousins or Elsie Wright and Francis Griffiths,

589
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: and they had all these photographs of them sitting around

590
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: in Glenn's surrounded by fairies frolicking about. Yeah, the Coddingly

591
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: Fairies that was taken near Coddingly, England. Famous famous hoax

592
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: uh And Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, of course, the author

593
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: of the Sherlock Holmes Mysteries. He was for a long

594
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: time a hardcore skeptic, but then suffered some tragedy in

595
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: his life and started to turn to mysticism and spiritualists

596
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: in an effort to answer questions that he could not

597
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: answer himself. And there was sort of a decline. It

598
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: was very kind of ironic from someone who presented a

599
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: character who was as dispassionate and rationalist Sherlock Holmes. To

600
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: end up embracing the idea of these two girls who

601
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: had managed to capture images of fairies, And it wouldn't

602
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: be until near the end of their lives that they

603
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: revealed that all they did was take illustrations that were

604
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: from books and cut them out and paced them onto

605
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: cardboard and pose the cardboard around them and take photographs.

606
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: So they actually didn't do any manipulation at all. They

607
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: just set a scene and did I. I think it

608
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: wasn't until the late seventies or early eighties that one

609
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: of them admitted to it, and then the famous skeptic

610
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: James Randy also said that he was like, well, these

611
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: illustrations are exactly the same as these illustrations from this

612
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: book that came out in nineteen fifteen. Yeah. Yeah, he

613
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: he had a book called flim Flam where he talked

614
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: about it a lot. James Randy did. That was decades later. Yeah,

615
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: you have very much later. So that's that's crazy, because

616
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: they sent it that it folded a photographer named Harold Snelling,

617
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: and he said quote that they were genuine, unfaked photographs

618
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: of single exposure open air work show of movement and

619
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: all the fairy figures and there's no trace. Whatever studio

620
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: work involving card are paper models, dark backgrounds, painted figures,

621
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, so he was. He was writing the

622
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: sense there was single exposure, yes, but there was no movement.

623
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: They were paper figures. In fact, there were people who's

624
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: who when they really looked at the photos, they said,

625
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: you can see evidence of some movement in the human subjects,

626
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: but the fairies, who presumably would be moving much faster

627
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: because some of them are like mid leap or flight

628
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: or whatever, there's no blurring around them. And again, the

629
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: exposure time at this point it was still relative a

630
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: long much longer than say the cameras that would be

631
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: used a few decades later, and so any fast movement

632
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: would be very blurry. It wouldn't come across so sharp

633
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: and crisp as these photos did. But they were very

634
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: compelling at the time, and a lot of people bought

635
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: into it, including Sir Arthur Knan Doyle. Uh. And I've

636
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: got another one. In nineteen twenty four. We have a

637
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: fellow by the name of Bernard McFadden who creates a

638
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: technique called composed a graph. Do you know of McFadden,

639
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't believe so let me take you

640
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: down the lurid, dirty, dirty path to tabloid journalism, because

641
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: this is tabloid journalism at its most skiezy. So here

642
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: here's McFadden. He is working on a tabloid magazine called

643
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: New York Evening Graphic, which some people nicknamed porno Graphic.

644
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: So what he would do is there would be news

645
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: stories of various uh public figures, whether celebrities, politicians, whatever,

646
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: sports stars, whatever it may be, and there'd be a

647
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: story of some scandal. Like again, this is a tabloid,

648
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: so they're all about scandal. What he would do is

649
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: he would take images, uh like of people's faces in

650
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: these stories. Then he would pose um body doubles, sometimes

651
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 1: mannequins sometimes they were staffers of the magazine into a tableau,

652
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: take a picture, and then do a paste of the

653
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: famous people's heads on top of the figures that he

654
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: had posed, and then do things like a superimposed word

655
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: balloon on top of it to express some statement that

656
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: went along with the scandalous story. Wow, I mean, how

657
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: could it be skisier than like today's tabloids. But that's

658
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: that's that's on. That's just right there. I don't know

659
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen have you ever seen any of

660
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: the computer animated videos that come out of It's some

661
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: Asian country, but it's but it's the retelling of famous story. Yeah,

662
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: same principle here, except he was doing it with still photography. Yeah.

663
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: And uh so that by the way, that that tabloid

664
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: did not last too long. I think in the early

665
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties that it folded and it went bankrupt. But

666
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: um definitely was one of those means of photo manipulation

667
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: that gave the whole the whole concept of bad name.

668
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 1: So there were the political ones we had talked about previously,

669
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: then there was this one where I mean it's just

670
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: the beginning of a long line of commercial uses of

671
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: photo manipulation and photo editing in order to sell papers. Essentially,

672
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: it is what it gets down to, yeah, or or

673
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, to kind of cause harm to someone's image. Yeah.

674
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: That that that that was the genesis of that, And

675
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: that's something that every time that political campaign come around

676
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: every four years, you have to be extra weary of

677
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: the photographs that start uh circulating. Yeah. And and not

678
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: only that, but you'll see artists will use it, usually transparently.

679
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean the artist approach normally is not to create

680
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: an image that you think is real. The artist's intent

681
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: might be to make a statement about a particular person.

682
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: I remember seeing one artist who had created a photograph

683
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: and it was of a crowd out on the street,

684
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: and then overtop the crowd was this inky looking octopus

685
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: with the head of William Randolph Hearst. So obviously the

686
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: comment being that Hearst is manipulating the public through the media,

687
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: and obviously he's not inky, so nor does he have

688
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: eight appendages, so that makes sense. He had terrible taste

689
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: in home decor. I'll say that as someone who's walked

690
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: through the Hearst Castle. This was clearly a guy who

691
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: had so much money. He just said, I like that thing.

692
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Put it in my else. It doesn't matter if baroque,

693
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: don't care if it's If it's broken Gothic in the

694
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: same room along with some even older stuff and some

695
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: newer stuff, that's fine. And I who have no taste

696
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: would walk through and go like, y'all, this is Tachi.

697
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of this tech stuff

698
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: classic episode right after we take this break. So let's

699
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about not not adding stuff in

700
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: but taking stuff away also. That became pretty prevalent around

701
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: that same period of time, the nineteen twenties, that was

702
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: a big period of time for well, World War One,

703
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: World War two, that that kind of period in time. Yeah,

704
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: we had a lot of um of famous leaders who

705
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: had finnicky attitudes towards their followers, and when they would

706
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: get a little peeved that said followers, they would attempt

707
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: to erase said followers from history entirely. Not just not

708
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: just execute the person. That's not good enough. They have

709
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: to erase the fact that that person ever existed, including

710
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: removing them from photographs and some examples. Yeah, sometimes you

711
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: get removed from a photograph and you'd also be dead. Yes,

712
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes they would kill you first and then say,

713
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 1: all right, well now that he's dead, let's go ahead

714
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: and remove him from all the official photographs, like press photos,

715
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: things like that. Big famous example of this would be

716
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: a photo that originally had Nikolai Yazkov or Yeshov rather

717
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: posing with Joseph Stalin. This is the Vanishing Commissar photograph,

718
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: and um it's a picture of a group of gentlemen

719
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: including Mr Stalin, uh and yes Hoff and yes I'm

720
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: standing right next to um a wall that leads right

721
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: over to a river, and Staalin's immediately to his right,

722
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: and then the retouched photo he's gone. Yeah. An example

723
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: of air brushing. Yeah, air brushing exactly. So. An airbrush

724
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: is a tool that uses air to push through some

725
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: form of paint or ink or whatever it may be,

726
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: in order for you to do some uh, you know,

727
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: analog hand controlled art. And in some cases it could

728
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: be to hide something that was once there. Yeah, Like

729
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: if you use photoshop today, it's the same idea as

730
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 1: content to wear or the clones stamp, just to take

731
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: you know, to put texture back into the photograph where

732
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: something used to be right. And if you were really

733
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: good at it, it might be difficult, especially on a

734
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: casual glance, to notice that anything hinky has happened. There's

735
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,479
Speaker 1: some examples where you can look at and think, huh,

736
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: if I did not know that there once was someone

737
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: standing there, I never would have picked up on the

738
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: fact that this photo has been altered. There are others

739
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: where there might be some clues, particularly with things that

740
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: have fine detail. Sometimes that will be a giveaway. There's

741
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: one with Hitler that's pretty noticeable. With well technically without Gebals.

742
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: It was originally Girbels was in the photograph. And I

743
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: love that every instance that talks about this says, we

744
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: don't know why. Yeah, we don't know why Hitler got

745
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: mad at Gebels or what the reasoning was, or why

746
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: he decided to erase him from this photo. He just did.

747
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: And it's not done particularly well because here's a blob. Yeah.

748
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: The Stalin one is a little more convincing, mostly because

749
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: the water in the background is a very light, like

750
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: the sunlight is hitting it, so it's harder to see

751
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: that there was once a form there um. But some

752
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: of the other ones are a lot more obvious, by

753
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: the way. The Stalin one, when I see the before

754
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: and after pictures, to me, it just feels like one

755
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 1: moment Stalin's there next to him, and the next moment,

756
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: Stalin just pushes him off into the river, which somewhere. Yeah,

757
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: it's not that far off from the truth because he

758
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: did have him executed, so uh. And I don't mean

759
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: to laugh about that. I don't think it's funny, but

760
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: I but it is one of those images where you

761
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: just look at and you you know, it lends itself

762
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: to that kind of thought. Uh and Hitler and Stalin

763
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: were not the only ones to do this. Mounts a

764
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: tongue did it. He had a famous photo where there

765
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: was a supporter named Poku who was posed among I

766
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: think they were like originally there were four people in

767
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: the photograph and then three Poku was removed. Uh, Poku

768
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: fell out of favor, and you can tell that this

769
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: one was manipulated to there's Uh, there's a background behind

770
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: where Poku was standing that has mysteriously gotten really blobby

771
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: and dark, and it's not the same color as the

772
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: surrounding wood in the structure that's there. So if you

773
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: look at the first photo where you can see where

774
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: the wood is a certain standard color all the way

775
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: through up to the point where you can't see it

776
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: anymore because pocus in the way and the other one

777
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: looks all blobby, You're like, something's wrong. It's also weird

778
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: when it's you. You see like a lineup of people

779
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: and then you wonder, like why are they standing like that? Yeah?

780
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: Can I talk about my favorite? Sure, it's the one

781
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: of Mussolini. Have you seen this one where he's on

782
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: a horse and he's holding a sword up to the

783
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 1: sky and uh. In the original there's a horse handler, yes,

784
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: standing right at the very mouth of the horse hold

785
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: in the horse's head, steady, and he had and removed

786
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: and it's a good it's a good it's a good job.

787
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: It looks it looks legitimate. But not like the artist

788
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: gave the horse buck teeth or something. But just that idea, um,

789
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: I think is the perfect amount of posturing for someone

790
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: like that, they would definitely do something like and and

791
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I was saying before, with the idea

792
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: that you know, to try and make certain figures seem

793
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: more majestic. Uh. You know, if if you're if your

794
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: identity that you are presenting to the public relies on

795
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: the fact that you are this powerful figure, you don't

796
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: want it seeing that you need someone there to control

797
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: the horse that you're sitting on. You wanted to look

798
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: like you have that, you know, that amazing ability yourself,

799
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: so you don't want there to seem to be any

800
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: sign of weakness perceived in any way. And that was

801
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: another great example of that. Um. Did you did you

802
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: know about the one from from a group of Russians

803
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: who are erecting the Soviet flag above the Reichstag. Yes,

804
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: and that in the original image, Uh, one of them

805
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: has on two watches. Yeah, he has a band on

806
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: his right arm that some people think was a watch,

807
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: but it probably was actually a compass, so it probably

808
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: was legitimately there. But the reason why the image is altered.

809
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: If you look at the altered image, the band has

810
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: gone off the right arm. And the reasoning was that

811
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: if people saw that he had a band on his

812
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: right arm, they would think he must already be wearing

813
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: a watch on his left arm. That's where people wear

814
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: their watches. So he must have been looting the bodies

815
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: of the dead and put on another watch on his

816
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: other arm, and they didn't want that to be part

817
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: of the image. Truth is, he probably didn't loud the dead.

818
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: He probably was wearing a compass on that arm and

819
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: a watch on his other arm. That idea to come to. Yeah,

820
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: it's and and it's interesting because to me, it's interesting

821
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: in that they were just trying to bypass a misinterpretation

822
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: of the photo and that in fact the photo was

823
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: probably already not indicating that this guy was a looter.

824
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: It was just well, to be safe, we should probably

825
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: take that out and it's also a very small part

826
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: of the photograph. Yeah, I mean it's this is not

827
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: like a close up on the man's wrist, in fact

828
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: that you have to look really closely to notice it.

829
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: But they were concerned and so they did. And then

830
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: the next one I have is actually you you mentioned him, uh,

831
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: Jerry Ulsman in nineteen sixty nine, one of the most

832
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: most striking photos I've seen that again was presented without

833
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: it being you know, it's not meant to deceive or misrepresent.

834
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: It's an artistic expression and it is this amazing photo

835
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: of trees that are suspended in the air, complete with

836
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: roots systems, and it's gorgeous. And if if you haven't

837
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: seen his work, I would suggest looking at it because

838
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: his surreal and impeccably done. Yeah, it is amazing to

839
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: look at. I I was and I'm not generally speaking

840
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: of visual arts kind of guy um one of my

841
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: other flaws, but when I saw this, I just couldn't

842
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: help but really appreciate the mastery of the art that

843
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: it would take to produce such an image. It's interesting

844
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: because his wife is as good at photoshop as he

845
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: is in the dark room. Interesting. Yeah, we'll have to

846
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: talk more about that in part two. Um, So there's

847
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: some other examples we can give, Like there's there's the

848
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: famous National Geographic UH cover in N two push the

849
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: pyramids closer together for a better composition of yeah. Yeah.

850
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: The the original photo was done in sort of a

851
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: landscape mode, and of course, in order to put it

852
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: onto a cover of a magazine, they needed to be

853
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: more portraits, so they squished them together. So if you

854
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: look the pyramids are they appear to be geographically closer

855
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: to one another than they are in reality. And some

856
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: people began to criticize the magazine for saying, you're you're

857
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: misrepresenting reality. You're putting this forward as if this is

858
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: the way it looks, and this is not how it looks.

859
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: And in fact, um they got a new director of

860
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: photography who said that, um, everyone in that GEO thought

861
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: that this was the wrong decision after it went up.

862
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: This was a mistake, not a mistake in the sense

863
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: of oops, we did this, but more like that's something

864
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: that we should not do because it doesn't reflect the

865
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: mission of our magazine. And so they had essentially made

866
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: a statement saying we're not going to do that. Ever. Again,

867
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: that's one of the last pre digital cases I can

868
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: I can think of. Yeah, the most the ones I

869
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 1: think of certainly happened after the digital era begins, like

870
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: the really famous ones. Obviously there are countless examples that

871
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: are out there, but that's the last one I have

872
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: of the really uh, the notable ones in the pre

873
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: digital era. And now there were some others that happened

874
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: in the post digital era that probably still use some

875
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: old school approach, like I'm thinking specifically of a TV

876
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: guide car that will talk about in part two. But

877
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Dylan. Have you have you,

878
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: as a photographer dabbled in some of these techniques for

879
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: whatever purpose almost every day? Yeah? Yeah, since I don't

880
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: do photojournalism, Um, I'm not trying to do anything that

881
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: I don't believe is ethical, right, Um, but let's say that,

882
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: for example, here at how stuff works, I've taken photographs

883
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: of the staff, and everyone's a while to take. We

884
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: have these great big windows that overlook uh the street,

885
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: and um, it's nice to post people and from them

886
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: because there's a great light in that area. And so

887
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: I'll take a portrait of one of our hosts in

888
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: front of that window and then i'll upload it onto

889
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: the computer. I'll realize, oh, there's some cars on the

890
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 1: road right there. I don't want those cars right there,

891
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,479
Speaker 1: so you remove I remove the cars. Or I took

892
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: a photograph of a couple of our hosts in front

893
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: of the apartment building across the street, and I thought, well,

894
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: the name of the apartment building isn't part of our brand,

895
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: so I should just take it out. Things like that,

896
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: it's just cleaning it up. It's um and things like

897
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: that I know happen every day. I think that. And

898
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: now photo manipulation is probably a little bit like auto tune,

899
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: where you might not know it, but almost every major

900
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: release you here has at least a little bit of

901
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: auto tune. Yeah, because the original purpose of auto tune

902
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: was to be unnoticed. It wasn't meant to be a

903
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: a new form of performance. That's how it got that's

904
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: what it got turned into. And then you had people

905
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: who were behind auto tune saying, well, crap. The whole

906
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: purpose of this was to make make to correct little

907
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: errors and get people closer to being on key and

908
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: on tune without it becoming a noticeable thing. And now

909
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: you guys are are are pushing this into something else,

910
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: not that that isn't legitimate. I mean, I think it's

911
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: always important to recognize the art sometimes takes established processes

912
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: or technologies and pushes them in new ways, and that's

913
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: how you get new stuff. Yeah, you get the share

914
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: effect an auto tune, or you have Andy Warhol making

915
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: prints until they deteriorate over and over again on like

916
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: a like a screen print, over and over again. But

917
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: just like how auto tune tries to find the right

918
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: note between two two different notes, tries to get you

919
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: to that right note. Uh, I think a lot of

920
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: people put their their photographs into a light room or

921
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: photoshop and they just try and get it to the

922
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: right exposure, the right saturation, uh, color correction, dodging and burning,

923
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: which we can talk about in the second episode. Just

924
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: small things like that that I think people have become

925
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: so accustomed to that if you gave them an image

926
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: right out of the camera, they would feel like it

927
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: could have been improved upon. Yeah, this to me is

928
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: really the fascinating part of this, the idea that as

929
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: someone who's who's a casual shutter bug at best, like

930
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: I am not known for the making great composition of shots,

931
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: I take pictures casually in order to capture moments to remember,

932
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: and that's about it. Like, that's that's about as far

933
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: as my expertise goes in that area. I have a

934
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: deep appreciation for people who have a great understanding of composition,

935
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: of lighting, of what needs to happen on the camera

936
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: side in order to capture the moment that you intend

937
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: to capture, and only that, but what has to happen

938
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: on the back end after the photo has been quote

939
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: unquote taken in order for you to have the finished

940
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: picture represent your vision, especially as an artist. That's that

941
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: to me is amazing, Like a lot I think, I

942
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: think I often would think of photography the way a

943
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: lot of early photographers thought about it, that photography's purpose

944
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: is to capture a moment um as close to representing

945
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: it in as being real as possible, like like capturing

946
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: that real moment forever and fixing it in a medium

947
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: so it can stay that way for the end of time.

948
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily, or at least I didn't think

949
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: about the fact that sometimes the point where you push

950
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: the shutter button on your camera is just the beginning,

951
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: and then you have another process us that follows to

952
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 1: get to the photo that you want that actually represents

953
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: your vision. There are definitely two sides of it. I

954
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: mean to have the idea of, like you said, getting

955
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: a photograph, saving it for history and not touching it,

956
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: I think is also very important depending on the case.

957
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: It's like when you get the audio of the State

958
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: of the Union, or if the President makes an address,

959
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: you don't cut it because that that can change context.

960
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: You shouldn't do the same thing um with photojournalism, or

961
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: at least most people believe that. It's like there was

962
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: a famous example in seventy at the Kent State shootings

963
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: that there's a picture of a body on the ground

964
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: and there's a woman grieving over it, and there was

965
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: a pole sticking out from behind her head. Um, and

966
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: someone saw that photograph and took the pole out. And

967
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: does it change the context of the photograph? Not particularly.

968
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: It was done for compositional reasons, to make it more

969
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: aesthetically pleasing. One of the things that I learned when

970
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: I went to college photophotography is never have a pole

971
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: behind someone's head. It's just it's just you don't do it.

972
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: It's distracting. And yes, but if it starts there with photojournalism,

973
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: if you start by removing a pole, it could only

974
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: escalate from there um and you know, you get to

975
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: a point where you're like, all right, it was a

976
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: pole in this case. All right, it was someone's ring

977
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: in this case, which changes the context depending upon the culture,

978
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: or it was you know, removing an entire person and

979
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: erasing that person's presence from an actual historical moment. I mean,

980
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: it does become a slope, right, And if when people

981
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: find out, it raises more questions than it ever really answers, sure,

982
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: because then you start questioning the motivations behind the action,

983
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: and then you think, well, what are your ulterior motives

984
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: for making these alterations to this photograph? And uh, you know,

985
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: we've explored some of that here. In some cases it

986
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: was meant to mislead people specifically, in some cases it

987
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: was a matter of ego, uh, and sometimes ego to

988
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: the point of of megalomaniac maniake the egos I mean

989
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: Stalin and and Mault s Tong and the biggest egos

990
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century learned mostly and yeah, yeah, yeah,

991
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean those are big egos and to the point

992
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: where if you want someone gone you don't just kill them,

993
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: but you erase all record of them. That's insane really

994
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: to me. But as far as people who would have

995
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,479
Speaker 1: like who would have a history of having photos manipulated, yeah,

996
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: it makes total sense that those would be the personalities

997
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: that demand these things. And we've also, of course, there

998
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: are plenty of examples of other artists and photographers who

999
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: have manipulated him, just using pictures of people like those, uh,

1000
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: in order to lampoon or youth satire or some other

1001
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: means to make a message. Like there's a famous one, uh,

1002
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: not a particularly convincing, uh, cut and paste job, but

1003
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: there was one where it's a picture of of of

1004
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: someone dressed up with an apron and they're holding a

1005
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: cleaver and they're about to chop the head off of

1006
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: a of a bird, a bird that represents France, and

1007
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: they've cut and paste Hitler's head on top of the

1008
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: person's head, thus representing Hitler's approach to attacking and and

1009
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: conquering France. And it was meant as a political statement,

1010
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: and it wasn't meant to mislead obviously, it wasn't. It wasn't.

1011
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: The intent wasn't to suggest, like, look at this weird picture.

1012
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: I got a hitler. It was obviously to make a statement. Yes, yeah,

1013
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: so lots of different reasons for this. Now this is

1014
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: really neat because it does show the amount of work

1015
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: necessary to edit and manipulate photos. Sometimes it meant taking

1016
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: a risk that you might ruin the negative that you

1017
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: had created. Not all of these manipulations when you had

1018
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: to go back to the negative and make some changes, No,

1019
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: all of them turned out great, And there is no

1020
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: undo button. Yeah, so we have no way of knowing

1021
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: how many potentially historical images we've lost as a result

1022
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: of an error made in the manipulation process. I hope

1023
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: you enjoyed that classic episode of tech stuff. We'll be

1024
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: back next week with part two. This is another one

1025
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: of those topics that I could easily do an update

1026
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: too and talk about some of the new tools for

1027
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: editing photos and videos and more, and how machine learning

1028
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 1: and artificial intelligence have greatly enhanced our ability to manipulate

1029
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: photos to the point where it's hard to trust anything

1030
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: you see these days in many ways. But we'll be

1031
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: back next week to conclude this two parter, and in

1032
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: the meantime, if you have suggestions for topics, I should

1033
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: cover on tech Stuff. Feel free to reach out to me.

1034
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: One way to do that is to download the i

1035
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app. It's free to use. Just navigate over

1036
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: to the tech Stuff page on I Heart Radios podcast

1037
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: app and you can leave a message by clicking on

1038
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: a little microphone icon that lets you leave up to

1039
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: thirty seconds of audio. Please be kind and uh. You

1040
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: can let me know what you would like me to

1041
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: talk about on the show, or if you prefer, you

1042
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: can reach out to me on Twitter. The handle for

1043
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: the show is tech Stuff H s W and I'll

1044
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon. Yeah. Tech Stuff is

1045
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: an i Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from my

1046
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1047
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.