Speaker 1: And it was also just so great to be introduced
Speaker 1: to vets and to share a space with them. And
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: I haven't been I haven't been referred to as a
Speaker 2: VET before.
Speaker 1: I hope you take it as a compliment and not
Speaker 1: an insult. Well I don't believe that. Yeah, Bryan.
Speaker 2: Against me, No, But I mean when I showed up
Speaker 2: on set, it must have it must have been just
Speaker 2: it was unnerve intimidating for you. Oh stop it, stop it.
Speaker 1: Hi. I am Ashley Murray and I play Hazel in
Speaker 1: the Other Black Girl.
Speaker 2: We're back, everybody with another episode of Off the Beat.
Speaker 2: This is your host, as always, Brian Baumgartner, and my
Speaker 2: guest today is my old pal, Ashley Murray. She is
Speaker 2: a super smart, super dynamic actor who you may recognize
Speaker 2: best with Caddiers on She played Josie of Josie and
Speaker 2: the Pussycats in both Riverdale and Katie Keen. She also
Speaker 2: played Senzi on Tom Swift and recently starred as the
Speaker 2: titular Other Black Girl in our new show The Other
Speaker 2: Black Girl. Now I say ours because I also make
Speaker 2: an appearance in that show. Along with my guest from
Speaker 2: last week, Sinclair Daniel if you haven't listened to that episode,
Speaker 2: you should go back and listen. And if you haven't watched,
Speaker 2: you should watch the Other Black Girl on Hulu. But first,
Speaker 2: sit right here and get to know my hilarious friend
Speaker 2: and castmate, Ashley Murray.
Speaker 3: Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak on
Speaker 3: Bubble and Squeak, I cook get every mole left over
Speaker 3: from the ninety before.
Speaker 2: Hi, Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 1: Hie?
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good. It's so good to see you.
Speaker 1: It's so good to see you too.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's been a year.
Speaker 1: No, it has it's been a year.
Speaker 2: Have you missed me? Terribly?
Speaker 1: Terribly? I don't know how I've slept, to be quite honest.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's there's a lot of reasons for not
Speaker 2: sleeping over the last several months. Are you in New York?
Speaker 1: I am, Yeah, I'm in New York.
Speaker 2: Okay, how's New York?
Speaker 1: It's cold now?
Speaker 2: Okay, she's cold, she's cold. Well. I want to talk
Speaker 2: a lot about us meeting and working together, but but
Speaker 2: I want to start with with you, just just you,
Speaker 2: and how you got into this crazy business. I researched
Speaker 2: which I did not know. Did you You grew up
Speaker 2: originally in Missouri? Is that right?
Speaker 1: Kansas City, Kanas City, Missouri, that's where you were born. Yeah,
Speaker 1: That's where I was born and I lived there for
Speaker 1: the majority of my childhood. I moved around a little bit,
Speaker 1: but the majority of my childhood was in Kansas City.
Speaker 2: How was that? How was Kansas City for you?
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard because I'm in that group of
Speaker 1: people that didn't quite gel with their hometown. Okay, you know,
Speaker 1: they're really beautiful historical things about Kansas City that I
Speaker 1: will champion to the day I die. Also, I am
Speaker 1: just not meant for the pace of life that exists
Speaker 1: in Kansas City.
Speaker 2: What's that pace?
Speaker 1: It's slow, you know, it's it's slow, very easy going,
Speaker 1: very minimal. You know, I live in New York City.
Speaker 1: There's so many people from everywhere doing everything at any
Speaker 1: given moment. Life is much simpler in Kansas City.
Speaker 2: So well, you know, there must be something about the
Speaker 2: water there in Kansas City, though, that that that breeds,
Speaker 2: that's the wrong world, that that nurtures funny, funny, funny people,
Speaker 2: because it's crazy. There was aeriod of time when on
Speaker 2: this podcast I was talking to people, and every single
Speaker 2: funny person, Paul Rudd, Eric stone Street, Rob Riggle, Dave Keckner,
Speaker 2: like everyone's from Kansas. You wouldn't. You wouldn't think, Well,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I ain't from Kansas. I'm from Missouri. Now, okay, there's
Speaker 1: a kansaity Kansas, and there's a Kansasity Missouri. I'm the
Speaker 1: Missouri side. I'm not from Kansas.
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Well, Kansas is in the name
Speaker 2: of the city.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, Kansas City falls on the state line,
Speaker 1: so like a portion of it is in one side
Speaker 1: and the other. And similarly to the way that people
Speaker 1: you know are down for their sports teams, you can't
Speaker 1: be calling somebody from Kansas City, Missouri from Kansas. It's
Speaker 1: just disrespectful God, and you can fight me on it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but.
Speaker 2: Okay, it is okay. So do you root for other
Speaker 2: sports teams besides the Kansas City once?
Speaker 1: Well, I used to root for the Saint Louis Rams
Speaker 1: because my cousin Mike Jones played for them for a while.
Speaker 1: But I am very much so a Kansas City Chief fan.
Speaker 1: Kan City Cheese can see Royals. I also did for
Speaker 1: a spell. I was very much so for the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers and the Giants because I lived in Oakland
Speaker 1: for two years of my childhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's what I heard that you spent some
Speaker 2: time in Oakland living with your aunt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I did. I lived with my aunt.
Speaker 2: How was How was that different?
Speaker 1: It was very different because you know, it was just
Speaker 1: myself and my older brother for one year and then
Speaker 1: it was just me. And it's the one time in
Speaker 1: my life I've been an only child. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: that many only children can speak to the fact that
Speaker 1: you have a lot more access to things. There's a
Speaker 1: lot more time from the parents, there's a lot more
Speaker 1: money to go around for extra curricular activities. So that
Speaker 1: was actually the time that I discovered that I wanted
Speaker 1: to be an actress was when I was living with
Speaker 1: my aunt. I was in my first ever play at
Speaker 1: ten and a half eleven.
Speaker 2: Okay, what was the play?
Speaker 1: It was? It was a play that was written by
Speaker 1: the children, so it wasn't you know, anything published, and
Speaker 1: I came in.
Speaker 2: So better than most television.
Speaker 1: Actually the play was I think the play was entitled
Speaker 1: Channel zero We're watching you there you go? Uh, And
Speaker 1: I had a non speaking role. I was a mute
Speaker 1: narrator and I got a standing ovation at the end
Speaker 1: of the show. So I was like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: even have to say anything.
Speaker 2: To move people. And that was when you decided it
Speaker 2: was what you wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was. I was in the throes of
Speaker 1: so many other things creatively. I wanted to be a seamstress.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a dance choreographer. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be a potter. I think that's what they're called people
Speaker 1: who throw pots, a sculptor. I discovered a lot of
Speaker 1: things in that two year range, but I fell deeply,
Speaker 1: madly in love with acting.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, And so from then on you were doing
Speaker 2: it either in school or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was doing when I moved back to Kansas
Speaker 1: City to live with my mom again, I was doing
Speaker 1: like an after school program of acting. And then once
Speaker 1: I got into high school, I started to compete. They
Speaker 1: have this thing called competitive drama or speech and debate
Speaker 1: depends on where you're from. What it's called forensics, Yes Fordic,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the away trips for forensics. I did
Speaker 1: a lot of forensics in high school, and I, if
Speaker 1: I may, I will toot my horn that I was
Speaker 1: the third person in my high school's history to break
Speaker 1: the amount of points that you can score as a
Speaker 1: whole in the forensics league. It's very difficult to reach
Speaker 1: that point. You have to do very well, and I
Speaker 1: maxed out of the points halfway through my competitive career,
Speaker 1: so then I just kept doing it for fun.
Speaker 2: So you're like, so I did this.
Speaker 1: I did because when you came out with the forensics.
Speaker 2: No, I know, I think three time state champion.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Not to too. But the point is we both it
Speaker 2: appears enjoyed acting but also winning, so you know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really the winning. To be honest with you,
Speaker 1: I just know. I'm serious, I'm serious. I really just
Speaker 1: loved being challenged. It actually kind of made me feel
Speaker 1: a way. I remember we walked into a a like
Speaker 1: a cafeteria. It was a Saturday because it was, you know,
Speaker 1: one of those type of competitions, and I saw a
Speaker 1: young girl that I recognized from other competitions, and she
Speaker 1: came up to me and I was like, hey, how
Speaker 1: are you, and she goes, I was doing really well
Speaker 1: until you walked in, because I knew I was going
Speaker 1: to place. But now I'm not, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, really nice to see you. I just I
Speaker 1: like competing with myself. And I really loved directing, quite frankly,
Speaker 1: because you remember how you'd have to cut all of
Speaker 1: your work down to fit into the time frame. That
Speaker 1: was my favorite thing to do, was to help all
Speaker 1: of my other friends in class and on the team
Speaker 1: to whittle down their work, to hone in on what
Speaker 1: the important parts of the stories were and help them
Speaker 1: express it like it was great, Like winning was great.
Speaker 1: But I just really loved I loved the competition. I
Speaker 1: loved to just like challenge myself to see if I
Speaker 1: could do better. I wasn't really about beating anyone else.
Speaker 1: I thank you.
Speaker 2: I think mine was about beating people. But I know,
Speaker 2: but I believe you. So you were doing for forensics,
Speaker 2: you were doing school plays. Did you do any screen
Speaker 2: work or commercials or an agent? Did you? Were you
Speaker 2: on that path at all?
Speaker 1: I was trying to get on that path, and I
Speaker 1: was very close to Actually I was semi on the
Speaker 1: radar of Disney back when I was like fourteen, I
Speaker 1: want to say. But then the first writer strike happened.
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, and then everything went silent. We didn't
Speaker 1: hear from anybody for ages, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: got to start over. And that was it. Like it
Speaker 1: was just regular school productions. And I didn't do any
Speaker 1: television or screen until I was nineteen. I did my
Speaker 1: first short ever, okay, and it was with this young
Speaker 1: woman who is now, if I'm not mistaken, an Emmy
Speaker 1: winning director. Her name is Morgan Damren. We met at
Speaker 1: the Missouri Finears Academy and she was doing her first
Speaker 1: short film. It's called Finding Harmony. I think she and
Speaker 1: I might be the only ones with that DVD. That
Speaker 1: was my first film related work. But I actually graduated
Speaker 1: high school early so that I could start working in
Speaker 1: children's theater. I did children's theater when I was eighteen.
Speaker 2: That was in Kansas City. And then what prompted you
Speaker 2: the move? The big move to New York and to
Speaker 2: attend the New York Conservancy for Dramatic Arts, which is
Speaker 2: a fancy, fancy title.
Speaker 1: Yes, it used to just be called. When I first
Speaker 1: discovered it, it was called the School for Film and Television. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I know, I know that's why they changed it. I
Speaker 1: found that school when I was also at the like
Speaker 1: yearly statewide competition where all of the musicals that were
Speaker 1: nominated were competing to win the best Musical, Best Stage Play.
Speaker 1: And then there was this secondary competition to win scholarship money,
Speaker 1: and if you were inducted into the ability to compete,
Speaker 1: you had to do a monologue. And I was competing.
Speaker 1: And at that time, they also had schools from around
Speaker 1: the country giving seminars to introduce themselves to graduating students.
Speaker 1: And that's where I found my conservatory, and I also
Speaker 1: I fell in love with that conservatory. I decided that
Speaker 1: that's where I wanted to go. It was in New York,
Speaker 1: and I also won that two thousand dollars scholarship.
Speaker 2: It's winning again. There you go.
Speaker 1: Maybe I do like it. Listen, if money is attached
Speaker 1: to it, I'm gonna get it, all right. I got
Speaker 1: places to go, I got things to study. It costs
Speaker 1: money I need, that's right. But yeah, I discovered my
Speaker 1: college there and I actually couldn't afford to go when
Speaker 1: I graduated, I didn't have the money to go to
Speaker 1: New York, so I moved back to California for the summer.
Speaker 1: My aunt helped me get a job with her friend
Speaker 1: who was an attorney. So I was her office assistant and.
Speaker 2: I did that work too. God, we did many connected. Yes.
Speaker 2: My job was to count pages that they were they
Speaker 2: were going to submit, like for evidence, which was important work, yes,
Speaker 2: but I had to go through and make sure all
Speaker 2: the pages were actually there. Oh yeah, that sounds like
Speaker 2: office work.
Speaker 1: It's it is office work, and that's that's accurate. It's
Speaker 1: one of the many things that paralegals do. And I
Speaker 1: only know that because later on in life, due to
Speaker 1: that one three month office job, I ended up becoming
Speaker 1: a legal assistant almost four years while I was pursuing
Speaker 1: my career here in New York. Okay, but anyway, I
Speaker 1: worked as an office assistant. I was also teaching theater
Speaker 1: at my aunt's summer program. And this was I don't
Speaker 1: know if she had actually opened up the school. She
Speaker 1: may have opened it at that point. My aunt, Angela Wellman,
Speaker 1: excuse me, doctor Angela Wellman. She has the first and
Speaker 1: only non public or non privatized public conservatory of music
Speaker 1: in the United States. It's in Oakland. It's called the
Speaker 1: Oakland Public Conservatory of Music. And I taught theater there
Speaker 1: in the summer. So I did that and I also
Speaker 1: put on a one woman show. I cooked all the
Speaker 1: food and put together a lineup of performances and raised
Speaker 1: money to afford to go to college. And I got
Speaker 1: there and was about ten thousand Somewhere between seven and
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars short, I can't remember now, but we
Speaker 1: were able to thankfully get money from family friends. They
Speaker 1: lent me money so that I could stay in school.
Speaker 1: I went to my little two year conservatory. It was wonderful.
Speaker 2: How much singing were you doing at this time, either
Speaker 2: with your aunt or growing up in high school.
Speaker 1: I only sang in the musicals. I didn't really sing
Speaker 1: anywhere else. I come from a very musical family. My
Speaker 1: mom's a singer, my aunt sings, my grandmother was a
Speaker 1: beautiful singer. So naturally I have it, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: my main focus. It's actually the thing that I'm most
Speaker 1: afraid of. But I sang in musicals, and I didn't
Speaker 1: really sing in college, now that I think about it,
Speaker 1: I don't unless it was karaoke. That was it. Like,
Speaker 1: I wasn't really doing anything else.
Speaker 2: Right, Did you have a focus either being on stage
Speaker 2: or were you looking right away to try to get
Speaker 2: into on screen film and television work.
Speaker 1: It was always film and television. It was okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it we When I went to this particular school, they
Speaker 1: didn't have any coursework for the stage. They were implementing
Speaker 1: that the year that I was graduating, but I opted
Speaker 1: not to participate. I just wanted to get right in
Speaker 1: to the nitty gritty. I love film, I love movies,
Speaker 1: and I also loved television because I thought, comparatively, it
Speaker 1: was the closest thing to theater. You know. I didn't
Speaker 1: understand that you had to get renewed and that, you know,
Speaker 1: sets and crews could change, and that you never have
Speaker 1: the same director. Like I was clueless. I just thought, well,
Speaker 1: everybody loves Raymond was on for nine years, Like it's
Speaker 1: the same thing as being on a show for six months,
Speaker 1: you know. So foolish. But film and TV was always
Speaker 1: my goal, and training for it in New York was
Speaker 1: also always my goal.
Speaker 2: Now, you mentioned the early short film work. I have
Speaker 2: pulled up here that some of your other on screen
Speaker 2: early work included a coke commercial, yeah, Diggy Simmons yeah,
Speaker 2: and Lady Gaga's MTV VMA promo video.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So how how were these early experiences for you? Where
Speaker 2: you know, you were you were actually getting paid.
Speaker 1: I'll say that the second screen work that I did
Speaker 1: was well film wise, was Welcome to New York that
Speaker 1: I did with a very dear friend of mine, Steven
Speaker 1: Tyler O'Connor. He is a creator, a director, a writer,
Speaker 1: and he was doing this movie and I auditioned for
Speaker 1: it and I got in, and I believe that we
Speaker 1: were paid. It's been so long ago, but like we
Speaker 1: probably made you know, some small amount of money what
Speaker 1: he could afford because it was, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a small budget. But I got the chance to like
Speaker 1: hold the cam. You know, I was running around New
Speaker 1: York City and hitting marks and it was right. That
Speaker 1: beginning of that experience was far more valuable than what
Speaker 1: I got paid, because I don't even remember. I remember
Speaker 1: what I learned from it more than anything. But once
Speaker 1: I then graduated into having representation, I had a manager,
Speaker 1: I was freelancing with agents, and that commercial money I
Speaker 1: miss it, I do that was good, good, easy money.
Speaker 1: And the commercials were fun. Like the auditions did never
Speaker 1: match what you were doing, Like for that Lady Gaga
Speaker 1: MTV promo commercial, I was wearing pretty much what I'm
Speaker 1: wearing in the commercial walking down you know the street
Speaker 1: in Manhattan with a pink two two and ripped fish
Speaker 1: nets and a faux hawk and crazy makeup. It's like
Speaker 1: one o'clock on a Tuesday. Nobody gives a fuck. I'm
Speaker 1: just on my way to this audition. And I get
Speaker 1: in there and they were like, so what would you
Speaker 1: be if you weren't an actor? Like what did that
Speaker 1: have to do with anything? Just asking you questions and
Speaker 1: they narrow the line down and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you book the commercial. So you know, it was
Speaker 1: fun and quite frankly like I'm not lying when I
Speaker 1: say I missdoing commercials. It was just it was so
Speaker 1: easy and so fun.
Speaker 2: I was told before you were cast in Riverdale that
Speaker 2: you almost quit acting.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why because I was broke. I was so broke.
Speaker 1: I was so many months behind on rent. I was
Speaker 1: like four months behind on rent. I was selling my
Speaker 1: belongings just to be able to pay my utilities so
Speaker 1: that my roommates wouldn't get pissed off. You know. I
Speaker 1: was really truly like scraping the bucket. And I had
Speaker 1: just met with my now agent at Innovative, and I
Speaker 1: was like, how am I going to tell them that
Speaker 1: I can't audition. I've been waiting and working so hard
Speaker 1: to get to this point to get representation, and now
Speaker 1: I have to tell them I can't do it. So
Speaker 1: my manager and I were conspiring up a story as
Speaker 1: to why I would have to take a break. I
Speaker 1: was going to take a break for a year. I
Speaker 1: actually had finished my second round of interviews to be
Speaker 1: an executive assistant at some office in Columbus Circle, and
Speaker 1: I walked to Whole Foods to buy some groceries for
Speaker 1: the first time because I had gotten a proved for
Speaker 1: food stamps that day. And while I was shopping, my
Speaker 1: manager called me and told me that I had an
Speaker 1: audition for Riverdale. And I was like, all right, fine,
Speaker 1: I'll just do this one thing. But then like that's it,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get this job at this office. Like
Speaker 1: I have to pay my rent, I can't leave the city.
Speaker 1: I just have to take a break. And within it
Speaker 1: was like what four days after that, I got the job.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a very intense turn of events. I'd
Speaker 1: never tested for anything before, I'd never been to LA
Speaker 1: for work in any sort of capacity. It was insane,
Speaker 1: Like I washed my clothes in my bathroom sink and
Speaker 1: ran up the street to my local laundromat, and the
Speaker 1: guy recognized me, and I begged him to please drive
Speaker 1: my clothes for free, because I had just spent the
Speaker 1: last money I had on my credit card to go
Speaker 1: downtown to get prints of my resume to staple to
Speaker 1: all of my head shots, and I needed to wear
Speaker 1: this outfit. They asked me to wear the same outfit
Speaker 1: I did in the first audition. It was desperate. I
Speaker 1: was up all night stapling my stuff together waiting to
Speaker 1: find out the flight information. Went to JFK, got to LA,
Speaker 1: took a cab to the wrong lot, and walked twenty
Speaker 1: minutes to get to the right one, and everybody thought
Speaker 1: I was insane because I guess people don't walk in LA. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was blinking one eye at a time because
Speaker 1: I hadn't slept. I was way too broke to care
Speaker 1: whether or not I booked the job. I was just like,
Speaker 1: I could leave here this as broke as I am
Speaker 1: when I got here. But at least Warner Brothers now
Speaker 1: knows that I exist. I didn't even know that there
Speaker 1: was a WB office in New York, and now they
Speaker 1: know who I am so either way, it's gonna work
Speaker 1: out well for me, and I ended up being lucky
Speaker 1: enough to book it.
Speaker 2: Wow, how much singing did you do on that audition?
Speaker 1: I sang one song twice, and the first time I
Speaker 1: sang it was in front of the studio I believe.
Speaker 1: I think it was a studio, and then the network
Speaker 1: that following day, but I forgot the song halfway through.
Speaker 1: I was so tired. I literally was singing and I
Speaker 1: stopped mid sentence and was just standing like an oppose
Speaker 1: waiting to find and then it came back and I
Speaker 1: kept singing again. Ended that that was it.
Speaker 2: Cast is Josie from Josie and the pussy Cats, which
Speaker 2: I didn't even realize. But I'm an idiot that it's
Speaker 2: a comic book. Were you a comic book fan? Were
Speaker 2: you aware of Josie and the Pussy JH.
Speaker 1: I was aware of Josie the Pussycats. I was aware
Speaker 1: of Archie comics. I was obsessed with that.
Speaker 2: I knew Archie comics, but I didn't know Josie and
Speaker 2: the Pussycats were I knew them both? Okay? Were you
Speaker 2: a fan?
Speaker 1: Yes? And I watched the cartoon. I loved it when
Speaker 1: they also would make a debut on this we do
Speaker 1: cartoon like.
Speaker 2: I'm okay it.
Speaker 1: Into animation and comics. That was my thing. I loved it.
Speaker 2: How'd you find out that you got cassed?
Speaker 1: I was in my hotel room.
Speaker 2: After you were You were still in La.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was still in La. We had just
Speaker 1: finished the studio audition and the head of Archie Comics
Speaker 1: came up to me and congratulated me on how well
Speaker 1: I did and I was like, oh, thank you. And
Speaker 1: then they left and I got back to the hotel
Speaker 1: and I found a tray of chocolate dip, strawberries and champagne.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a gift from my manager and
Speaker 1: my agent congratulating me on my first test. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is so nice. So I called my manager. I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, Kim, thank you so much. She was like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about. It was like for the
Speaker 1: champagne and strawberries like I need. It was so stressful
Speaker 1: the day. She was like, call the front desk right now,
Speaker 1: call the manager. I did not send those to you
Speaker 1: so much. One knows where you are. It was like
Speaker 1: deaf Con nine. I don't understand why it went from
Speaker 1: zero to one hundred. She was convinced that somebody was
Speaker 1: like trying to poison me. My manager's very protective, bless her,
Speaker 1: I love her so much. And so she starts going
Speaker 1: on a rampage down the directory trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who put this food and this alcohol in my room.
Speaker 1: Shes like, don't drink it, don't touch it. I need
Speaker 1: to find out where it came from. And she discovered
Speaker 1: that it was sent over as a congratulations from the studio,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's nice. And then like
Speaker 1: twenty minutes later, my agent called me and said that
Speaker 1: they were offering me the role. So I still went
Speaker 1: home poor as hell, but I had a job. She
Speaker 1: had a job.
Speaker 2: So you flew back to New York, obviously, But did
Speaker 2: you feel Was it relief? Was it excitement? Was it gratitude?
Speaker 2: Was it yeah, the plan has worked? What was your
Speaker 2: overwhelming feeling?
Speaker 1: Honestly, I it was all of those things. I was
Speaker 1: so grateful, and there was a major sense of relief,
Speaker 1: and a part of me, not even a part of me,
Speaker 1: so much of me. I've always known that this is
Speaker 1: what I'm meant to do. And I am a firm
Speaker 1: believer in what's mine is mine, and when it's my time,
Speaker 1: it's my time. And that helps keep those very human
Speaker 1: emotions of jealousy or fear, any of those things that
Speaker 1: naturally occur at Bay. You know, I'm able to quell
Speaker 1: those things because I just try to bring it back
Speaker 1: to myself and remind myself that my path is my own.
Speaker 1: Nothing about what we do is ordinary or planned, So
Speaker 1: I just have to sit deeply within myself and show
Speaker 1: up as best I can and keep pushing. And I
Speaker 1: got this. It was met with so much excitement because
Speaker 1: also it was such a quick turn of events of
Speaker 1: me not having a job to having it to the
Speaker 1: day that I flew back, it was already announced on
Speaker 1: deadline that I had been cast in the role, so
Speaker 1: so much of my world changed very quickly.
Speaker 2: It's an iconic character. Did you feel pressure about that?
Speaker 2: Obviously it's being reimagined in a new way, yeah, But
Speaker 2: did you feel pressure of the history? I guess I didn't.
Speaker 1: Good I didn't because I knew the love I had
Speaker 1: for the comics as a whole. I also was very
Speaker 1: brave and honest with the CEO of Archie Comics that
Speaker 1: I told him to his face that I stopped reading
Speaker 1: the comics after they turned into a graphic novel. I
Speaker 1: preferred the original Digest version. And this is before I
Speaker 1: booked a job. I was like, listen, I'm just being honest, Like,
Speaker 1: I go hard for Archie comics, but I love I'm
Speaker 1: partial to the Digest, right, And I knew that the
Speaker 1: characters that I grew up watching were not me. They
Speaker 1: didn't look like me, you know. I was not the
Speaker 1: same age they were when I was playing it. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring as much love and care and
Speaker 1: respect as well as my own idea to the work.
Speaker 1: And I knew that it would be met with nothing
Speaker 1: but respect. So I wasn't worried about the pressure of
Speaker 1: the history behind it. I was more concerned about the
Speaker 1: public reception around the fact that I was playing a
Speaker 1: character that on paper didn't look like me.
Speaker 2: Hmm interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was more worried about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And did you feel that ever?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yes, I did. Yes, I felt it
Speaker 1: right after the I felt it throughout the portrayal actually
Speaker 1: working and doing the show. There were too many people
Speaker 1: comfortable with trying to pigeonhole my character simply because of
Speaker 1: the restraints that are placed on black women just in general,
Speaker 1: you know, having any ounce of emotion. Oh, she's angry,
Speaker 1: she's aggressive, she's this, you know, being standing up for herself. Well,
Speaker 1: she's bossy and she's sassy, and it's like no, and
Speaker 1: having to feel that. Even the pushback with my character
Speaker 1: hooking up with Archie's character, that received a lot of
Speaker 1: unsavory feedback, So it was that was one of the
Speaker 1: more difficult things to deal with. I wasn't really too
Speaker 1: concerned about my performance to the character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that there was a period where you
Speaker 2: were tact for things that Josie did in the show,
Speaker 2: which is a crazy, crazy idea. How ultimately did you
Speaker 2: deal with that?
Speaker 1: It's really hard. You know, the type of attacks that
Speaker 1: I was experiencing are not new, but having such constant
Speaker 1: access to me was a different It's a different experience
Speaker 1: in our industry, having social media on the Internet, and
Speaker 1: it's a part of my job and my contract to
Speaker 1: be socially active and push the show. And I'm also
Speaker 1: being met with so much vitriol and hate. Not to
Speaker 1: say that that's all it was, because it definitely wasn't.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of really wonderful supportive people who
Speaker 1: love the work that I do. But trying to mitigate
Speaker 1: all of the nastiness is something that I am not
Speaker 1: totally sure how I did. Like sometimes I just had
Speaker 1: to disengage. And a part of that is also a
Speaker 1: reason why I have such a difficult relationship with social media.
Speaker 1: It's hard to be a public figure and manage other
Speaker 1: people's ability or inability to disassociate you from what you do.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like or have you thought about I mean,
Speaker 2: this is six or seven years before Hallie Bailey was
Speaker 2: cast as Aerial in The Little Mermaid. It seems like
Speaker 2: a lot of things that you're talking about right now
Speaker 2: may be similar things that well, I'm sure she's experienced
Speaker 2: because I've read about it even now.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, we can track it back to even
Speaker 1: Candice Patten when she was cast on The Flash. The
Speaker 1: amount of of hate and she was constantly being attacked constantly.
Speaker 1: You know, it's somehow, some way, these things just don't
Speaker 1: seem to disappear because they're not dealt with, you know.
Speaker 1: I Unfortunately we are not anomalies. It's actually quite common.
Speaker 2: You do Riverdale for three years, then they decide to
Speaker 2: give you a bump give you a up grade, give
Speaker 2: you a start another show where you're higher up in
Speaker 2: the on the on the call sheet. I guess I
Speaker 2: don't know Katie Keene. So you're playing the same role. Yes,
Speaker 2: And by the way, you're still playing a sixteen year old, right?
Speaker 2: Can you still play a sixteen year old?
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, yes, I can. Do I want to know? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, no, I don't think I would. The
Speaker 1: only way that I could is if everybody else around
Speaker 1: me was so older, or I just didn't have to
Speaker 1: make out with anyone that was also sixteen. But at
Speaker 1: that point in Katie Keene, my character was aged up.
Speaker 1: There wasn't an exact age given, but it's like somewhere
Speaker 1: in their early twenties, but she was no longer a teenager.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right? Was it fun for you to keep
Speaker 2: playing that character in a different world.
Speaker 1: I was excited to be home because we actually shot
Speaker 1: it in New York yea, So it was really really
Speaker 1: great to just be at home. And I'd say roughly
Speaker 1: ninety percent of our location were spots that had such
Speaker 1: deep meaning for me. Because there's a scene between Lucy
Speaker 1: and I who were sitting out on a park bench,
Speaker 1: and there's like a big lighthouse or something, and that
Speaker 1: was up in the heights, and that was like a
Speaker 1: ten minute walk from the one and only studio I'd
Speaker 1: ever lived in in New York, the one and only
Speaker 1: time I'd ever lived by myself. You know, there were
Speaker 1: just so many memories that I got to look back
Speaker 1: at and say, I remember when I was that age,
Speaker 1: and I always said I'm going to be shooting a
Speaker 1: TV show one day, I'm going to be in film,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, And then here I was
Speaker 1: actually doing it in all of these spots. So it
Speaker 1: was quite special for me.
Speaker 2: Do you miss the ears? You're going to wear the
Speaker 2: ears again? Are you? Are you gonna? Are you gonna
Speaker 2: play it again? Play it?
Speaker 1: Play it. I think if the right thing came along
Speaker 1: for me to do it again, I wouldn't say no,
Speaker 1: you know I do. I wouldn't want to be doing
Speaker 1: the same thing. That's the thing, you know, the character
Speaker 1: Josie is Josie. But and I wouldn't want to keep,
Speaker 1: you know, spinning the same wheel at all. I don't
Speaker 1: have any interest in that. But there's always new people
Speaker 1: and new ideas being born. And I think if the
Speaker 1: right fresh idea came along and I felt like I
Speaker 1: could lend myself to it, and they felt like I
Speaker 1: was right for it. Then. Yeah, but right now I
Speaker 1: don't really have an interest breaking news.
Speaker 2: I heard a yes out of that. All right, No,
Speaker 2: we's just we'll move along. Last year, two years ago,
Speaker 2: whenever it was you started in another CW show, Tom Swift. Oh, yes,
Speaker 2: spin off of the Nancy Drew series. Was that a
Speaker 2: positive experience for you playing a mystery?
Speaker 1: Actually it was because that was also the first time
Speaker 1: that I got to be funny. I used to be
Speaker 1: real funny, and I just felt like that was gone.
Speaker 1: You know, Riverdale was a very dangerous town. Nothing funny
Speaker 1: was ever really happening. And when I got to Tom Swift,
Speaker 1: I got to be funny, smart, mature, rich because this
Speaker 1: character was ridiculously rich.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also got to shoot in Atlanta, and I'd never
Speaker 1: worked there before, and it was the first time that
Speaker 1: I was on a set where there were copious amounts
Speaker 1: of black people. I'm used to being one of like
Speaker 1: four and that's across the board, and to be in
Speaker 1: a place where the city is so black, and then
Speaker 1: to be at work and not feel like I'm on
Speaker 1: a different planet. You know, there are people there that
Speaker 1: look like me, that are working alongside me. And it
Speaker 1: was the first time that I actually felt myself relaxed,
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that I had been held for
Speaker 1: so long. I was just kind of just a little
Speaker 1: held in and I felt like, oh, I can, I
Speaker 1: can kind of chill, which is such a weird thing
Speaker 1: to have to expe what do you mean.
Speaker 2: Wait, what do you mean that you could kind of chill?
Speaker 1: It's because once I left Kansas City, which has a
Speaker 1: very strong black population, and I moved to New York.
Speaker 1: There are so many different people here. But I was
Speaker 1: also going to a you could call it. It's a
Speaker 1: privatized conservatory. It's an institution. You have to pay a
Speaker 1: lot of money. And so there weren't that many of
Speaker 1: us there. And for some people, they were intimidated by me.
Speaker 1: They were intimidated by my confidence, they were intimidated by
Speaker 1: my talent. They were just intimidated by me being comfortable
Speaker 1: as myself. And there was like verbal and nonverbal pushback
Speaker 1: to that. And because I don't want to be isolated,
Speaker 1: I then made myself smaller so that these people wouldn't
Speaker 1: feel as uncomfortable around me that, oh, well, now if
Speaker 1: I kind of dumb parts of myself down a bit,
Speaker 1: then everybody can be on the kind of the same
Speaker 1: level and we don't feel threatened and we can just be.
Speaker 1: And so I just sort of lived in that compact state,
Speaker 1: and not everyone that I was around was like that,
Speaker 1: but I found it to be necessary, whether it was
Speaker 1: blatantly said or inferred. So I just began to That
Speaker 1: was the way that I had to assimilate in order
Speaker 1: to maintain surviving in these spaces and then getting into
Speaker 1: a space where I could just be myself, because I've
Speaker 1: been around people who are like, oh, you're black, black,
Speaker 1: Like what do you think? Of course, I'm black. I
Speaker 1: don't understand. Like, if I'm just myself, like you do,
Speaker 1: what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Tell me what does that mean? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like people who are because when I like, probably
Speaker 1: soften some of my countryness, or soften some of my twang,
Speaker 1: or soften some of my expressiveness. And then if something
Speaker 1: is said or something happens and my twain comes out
Speaker 1: or I have a real expressive reaction to it, They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was in you, and I'm like what.
Speaker 1: And part of that is because I've been in situations
Speaker 1: where I am myself and I'm ostracized for it. I
Speaker 1: culturally show up as me, and it's a problem for
Speaker 1: some people. And when you're not exposed to so many
Speaker 1: people like that, people repel it. And so in order
Speaker 1: for me to survive in the spaces where I have
Speaker 1: to be in order to work, I truncate. And now
Speaker 1: being in a place where there are people who are
Speaker 1: like me, and I know or feel like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be judged for just being myself. They're going
Speaker 1: to understand my twang, they're going to understand my expression,
Speaker 1: and I can relax and I can just be myself,
Speaker 1: you know, I can be my full self. And I
Speaker 1: feel like I didn't realize that I was only being
Speaker 1: probably like ninety to ninety five percent of myself. It
Speaker 1: was just like just this little like just a little
Speaker 1: like tuck it in just a little bit and then
Speaker 1: you'll be fine. And now I realize, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can just I can let all that go. It
Speaker 1: was a very strange experience, but that's what that's what
Speaker 1: it was like.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. It is and I think that the part
Speaker 2: that had not really occurred to me was the idea
Speaker 2: of the shooting city too. The location. Yeah, that's an
Speaker 2: element that I'm not really considered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to. And I say that
Speaker 1: because we have two very different existences, right, you know,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even expect it to happen. You know,
Speaker 1: It's not like I've never been around black people. You know,
Speaker 1: my whole life I have, I have never been around
Speaker 1: that many black people. Atlanta got all the black people.
Speaker 1: It's so great.
Speaker 2: Well it's funny because you know, I'm from Atlanta, I know,
Speaker 2: so that's where I that's where I grew up culturally.
Speaker 1: Like that wasn't different for you.
Speaker 2: And that's partly what I say. I mean, obviously we
Speaker 2: have a different experience because you're a black woman and
Speaker 2: I'm a white male, but also like, yeah, that was
Speaker 2: you know, and we'll talk about it in a minute
Speaker 2: when we were working down there. In some ways it
Speaker 2: was for me, it was it was like, oh no,
Speaker 2: this is this is like this is what I'm.
Speaker 1: Used to exactly exactly. And that is what was so
Speaker 1: strange for me is that it was something that I
Speaker 1: would have expected to have even in a place like
Speaker 1: New York, New York, right, which is you know, just
Speaker 1: ferociously diverse, and yet it still wasn't really that way
Speaker 1: on set, the way that it was in Atlanta. And
Speaker 1: that's how that's what I mean about the ways in
Speaker 1: which I had to kind of shrink myself because I
Speaker 1: was in environments that were not diverse enough. You know,
Speaker 1: you grew up in Atlanta, so that wasn't that that
Speaker 1: was normal for you to be around a bunch of
Speaker 1: black folks, Like that's just normal. And when I'm the
Speaker 1: one black person that you know, eighteen people are ever around,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh right, you know, it just it changes
Speaker 1: the dynamic.
Speaker 2: Well, I am so glad that you had such a
Speaker 2: positive experience on Tom Swift. I'm sorry for you that
Speaker 2: it didn't get renewed, But uh, I left the door.
Speaker 1: Open because of that very reason.
Speaker 2: I left the door open for something that was to come.
Speaker 2: The other Black Girl. You were cast as Hazel the Titular,
Speaker 2: which to me is just a funny word.
Speaker 1: Such a funny word, other black.
Speaker 2: Girl to Sinclair Daniels Nella in the show. Talk to
Speaker 2: me about meeting the folks there and how that project
Speaker 2: came about for you, Oh you audition seventy nine times.
Speaker 1: I auditioned a lot in the sense of my first
Speaker 1: round of auditions. I went to a producer's session, but
Speaker 1: I didn't pass to the cam read, and so I
Speaker 1: was knocked out. I was very very sad about it,
Speaker 1: and I had actually when I got the audition, I
Speaker 1: had just bombed and auditioned the day prior, yes on
Speaker 1: a movie that I really wanted to be a part of,
Speaker 1: but I did so horrible. And the next day I
Speaker 1: found out that I had an audition for The Other
Speaker 1: Black Girl. I saw the book actually in a bookstore
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood. It was a bookstore that I'd walked
Speaker 1: by for two years and never went in, And the
Speaker 1: one day that I went in, I saw the book
Speaker 1: on the table and I was like, huh, And so
Speaker 1: I picked it up and I started reading it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I love this did
Speaker 1: the auditions, was feeling really good about it, got knocked out,
Speaker 1: was heartbroken for about a month or two, I think,
Speaker 1: And then they came back around and asked to see
Speaker 1: if I would be willing to come back in and reread,
Speaker 1: and I did, and I did that, I think for
Speaker 1: about a month, and the last round of zoom testing,
Speaker 1: it was like how many hours we were doing it.
Speaker 1: It was probably a total collectively of like eight hours,
Speaker 1: but like four and a half each each time. It
Speaker 1: was a lot, and I was like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: have anything else to give, Like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: else I could do. I was terrified the whole time
Speaker 1: because I've never played a character like Hazel before. I'm
Speaker 1: typically more cast type as Anella than I am a Hazel.
Speaker 1: And I really wanted to do Hazel because I wanted
Speaker 1: to see if I could push myself to be you know,
Speaker 1: mysterious or intimidating. You know, I didn't find myself naturally
Speaker 1: to be, and so I was so worried that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to perform.
Speaker 2: And then I got awesome. Now we had the luxury
Speaker 2: the author was on set. How much did you talk
Speaker 2: to her about Hazel?
Speaker 1: You know, I think I spoke more to our directors
Speaker 1: than I did Zakiyah. But I just kept checking in
Speaker 1: to make sure that what I was doing was on
Speaker 1: the right right path. And the things that I wanted
Speaker 1: to lean into, mostly that I felt comfortable with was
Speaker 1: her empathy. That's where I am most comfortable because that's
Speaker 1: so much of who I am as a person, and
Speaker 1: so when I'm bringing myself to the work, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to find the things that I can align with in
Speaker 1: that character. And I really leaned into my empathy for her.
Speaker 1: So when it came to the part of being a
Speaker 1: little nefarious, yeah, I would have to try to find
Speaker 1: a way to justify that through her empathy. It was
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: How similar do you feel or was there a pressure
Speaker 2: for you to play the Hazel that was in the
Speaker 2: book or did you view it as a more an
Speaker 2: inspiration and you were recreating this character.
Speaker 1: I would say, I don't know if inspiration so much
Speaker 1: as it is just similarly to the way I knew
Speaker 1: the Archie comics, you know, and Josie. It was just
Speaker 1: additional information. But I chose to take what the writers
Speaker 1: were giving me and make it out of that. So
Speaker 1: I would just entrusted my art into what they were
Speaker 1: giving me.
Speaker 2: In words, Well, that makes sense, you know. By the way,
Speaker 2: there's been a there's been an actor strike. There's been
Speaker 2: a writer strike and an actor strike. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've heard about that. The last few the last
Speaker 2: few months, I felt so badly. I told Sinclair this
Speaker 2: for the two of you, because I felt like your
Speaker 2: work in the show was so tremendous and I felt
Speaker 2: so sad that you weren't able to get the attention
Speaker 2: and to ensure that as many people as possible could
Speaker 2: see the show. I mean, here's a good thing about streaming.
Speaker 2: It's still there, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people are still discovering it, which is great.
Speaker 2: People are still discovering it now, which is great. But
Speaker 2: I felt so badly for the two of you. How
Speaker 2: difficult was it to not be able to talk about
Speaker 2: this thing that I know you were so proud of.
Speaker 1: It was really heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Brian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have worked hard for a long time and
Speaker 1: to be a part of something that I was so
Speaker 1: utterly proud of, not just for the work that we did,
Speaker 1: but for the people that I got to work with,
Speaker 1: you know, our culture at work. I loved coming to work,
Speaker 1: for the people, for the experience, for the work. It
Speaker 1: was just I loved being at work. I really wanted
Speaker 1: to share this, not just for myself but for everyone else.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to get the chance to go on
Speaker 1: like daytime television I've never done any of those things before.
Speaker 1: I've never had that experience, and this would have been
Speaker 1: that chance. And it was very, very it was a
Speaker 1: hard pill to swallow, you know. I am and have
Speaker 1: been in support of both strikes wholeheartedly, and the sacrifice
Speaker 1: that we had to take was not being able to
Speaker 1: give our show more attention. It was really, really, really,
Speaker 1: it was really hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think one of the unintended casualties
Speaker 2: that happened out of it. You felt good about the
Speaker 2: culture there on the other Black Girl, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I just loved it. It was honestly,
Speaker 1: it was so chill, you know, but like and chill
Speaker 1: with respect to the fact that, you know, what we
Speaker 1: do day in and day out can be very chaotic.
Speaker 1: You know. The days were so long, we were block
Speaker 1: shooting the entire season. That puts a lot of strain
Speaker 1: on everyone. And to still come in and kind of
Speaker 1: feel like I'm hanging out with my friends and we're
Speaker 1: also going to make this thing. The last time I
Speaker 1: felt that was like in high school, you know, like
Speaker 1: when you're just school's over and it's after school and
Speaker 1: now we get to it's play rehearsal, you know, like right,
Speaker 1: that's what it felt like. And it was also just
Speaker 1: so great to be introduced to vets and to share
Speaker 1: a space with them. And that's right.
Speaker 2: I haven't been I haven't been referred to as a
Speaker 2: VET before.
Speaker 1: I hope you take it as a compliment and not
Speaker 1: an insult. Well, I don't believe that, Yeah, Bryan, I
Speaker 1: need convince.
Speaker 2: Me no, But I mean when I showed up on set,
Speaker 2: it must have it must have been just it was
Speaker 2: unnervesting for you. Oh stop it, stop it. Hey, Look,
Speaker 2: I mean I attempt to make everyone as comfortable as possible,
Speaker 2: which is so.
Speaker 1: Funny considering the character that you had to play was unbearable,
Speaker 1: which is why it was. It was just so great.
Speaker 2: I know my time there, I wasn't there for that long,
Speaker 2: but I felt a real sense of community and sort
Speaker 2: of what you're describing that like, let's get together and
Speaker 2: quite frankly in a way, very much like the office
Speaker 2: in terms of feeling a real sense of no ego
Speaker 2: or self aggrandizing and just like, how can we make
Speaker 2: this the best that it can be? How can we
Speaker 2: tell this story in the best way.
Speaker 1: I really felt that, Yeah, that's it, exactly right. We
Speaker 1: were all advocating for the same thing. We all just
Speaker 1: wanted to make a really good show, and we all
Speaker 1: wanted to do the best we could to provide that
Speaker 1: and to also, you know, keep the day moving, keep
Speaker 1: keep the ball rolling, and keep everybody happy and healthy
Speaker 1: and you know, said and hydrated so that we could
Speaker 1: make this thing and go home because we were under
Speaker 1: so much pressure to shoot so much in such a
Speaker 1: little amount of time.
Speaker 2: Now I got nothing from Sinclair on this shoot. I
Speaker 2: shouldn't have said that. Damn it. I shouldn't have said that. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get anything out of you. Damn it.
Speaker 1: Oh, I feel like I know what you're about to
Speaker 1: ask me, and I'm going to take the same thing. Well,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Uh.
Speaker 2: There was an unexpected hiatus that happened. Oh yeah, Suddenly
Speaker 2: there was a period of time that we were to
Speaker 2: be shooting that we were not shooting, and there was
Speaker 2: some discussion that I just heard that it appeared as
Speaker 2: though there was some reworking to be done to the
Speaker 2: later episodes. This is what I recall being told, and
Speaker 2: after watching the show, loving the show, and also reading
Speaker 2: the book and loving the book, there was a divergence.
Speaker 2: I would say that occurred in the two stories, and
Speaker 2: to me, it appeared as though it was done to
Speaker 2: potentially come back for a second season. Do you believe
Speaker 2: that to be true? Was that something you heard or not?
Speaker 1: I did not know you were going to say that.
Speaker 2: No, I did not hear this, But you know what
Speaker 2: I'm you know what I'm referring to, right.
Speaker 1: I think I know what you're referring to, but like
Speaker 1: the reasoning behind it, No, I have no that I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: Brian.
Speaker 1: You know you've been doing this longer than I have,
Speaker 1: but I've been doing it for a hot minute, and
Speaker 1: I know not to trust anything, like you could be
Speaker 1: doing something that's so great and you it never sees
Speaker 1: the light of day again. And then there people who do.
Speaker 2: I know that?
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm horrible, and then they go, you know
Speaker 1: you just don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know, no, but to me, so, let me
Speaker 2: be clear that the story in the book ends, right,
Speaker 2: there's not a sequel to that story, right, But at
Speaker 2: the end of the series there is open. It is
Speaker 2: more open than it is closed. And that was my
Speaker 2: that was my question. But you're saying you didn't hear
Speaker 2: anything about this.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't. And even to that, to that thought,
Speaker 1: everything that I've been a part of has always been
Speaker 1: open ended, whether it was from a book or not.
Speaker 1: And so when I signed on, it was never made
Speaker 1: clear that it was going to be like a what
Speaker 1: are they called. It's not a mini series, it's well,
Speaker 1: there's a.
Speaker 2: Mini series or continual series.
Speaker 1: Contractually, there was no verbiage that insinuated that this wouldn't
Speaker 1: that this would stop after the tenth episode.
Speaker 2: So I know, right, But what I'm saying is is
Speaker 2: that to me, there was a clear decision made to
Speaker 2: leave it more open than in the novel.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I set it to me three times and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, wait, that's what he's saying.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to trick you. This is not this
Speaker 2: is not like, yeah, I'm not trying to trick you.
Speaker 1: I know you're not. I'm just trying. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get on the same train, but I keep missing the car. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I'm in the same car now. And I
Speaker 1: did not hear anything like that. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know, So you don't know. You don't know
Speaker 2: why there was a pause in production I know.
Speaker 1: Why there was a pause, but I don't know that
Speaker 1: that choice of redirection was solely to leave it open
Speaker 1: for a second season. I don't, I don't. I do
Speaker 1: know why the pause, but not the full life.
Speaker 2: Fine done, don't know you do you want to come back?
Speaker 1: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, is there a way that Colin comes back?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's really all I'm concerned about. Is there
Speaker 2: a way that he can redeem himself in some way?
Speaker 1: Redemption? I don't think it's in Colin wheel house. Although
Speaker 1: you know there's nothing wrong. Life is cyclical, history repeats itself.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be Colin. Colin can always keep
Speaker 1: coming back. You know. It's just a question of whether
Speaker 1: or not people have learned from Collin.
Speaker 2: Very very true.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't see why Colin can't show up again.
Speaker 2: I agree. Well, it would be my pleasure to work
Speaker 2: with you again on this or anything else. I think
Speaker 2: you are fantastic in the show. I want to congratulate you,
Speaker 2: and I want America in the world to see it
Speaker 2: and your work. The other Black Girl streaming now on Hulu.
Speaker 1: That's right. Thank you so much, Brian, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate you, and it was such my
Speaker 2: pleasure to work with you, and I hope for nothing
Speaker 2: but the best for you in continuing this show or
Speaker 2: something else very soon. Thank you all right, thanks for
Speaker 2: coming on.
Speaker 1: You're welcome.
Speaker 2: Ashley. You are such a talent and a joy. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for being here. I just feel lucky
Speaker 2: that I get to work with people like you. Now,
Speaker 2: I promise this is going to be my last plug
Speaker 2: for the show, but I've been holding it in for
Speaker 2: four months now, so I think I've earned this. Watch
Speaker 2: The Other Black Girl on Hulu. You can binge it
Speaker 2: right now if you want. It's all out there and
Speaker 2: it's really really good. And I'm not just saying it
Speaker 2: because I'm in some of it, but because of people
Speaker 2: like Ashley Sinclair, Bellamy Young, Eric McCormick, Carcel Movey, Langston Kerman,
Speaker 2: are creators and writer Zakiya and Rashida Jones, so many
Speaker 2: great people. It's smart and funny, it's a little scary
Speaker 2: and complex and nuanced, and it's just it's just good.
Speaker 2: So meet me back here next week, when I'll catch
Speaker 2: up with another amazing guest about what they've been sitting
Speaker 2: on these past few months. Until then, have a really
Speaker 2: really good week. Off the Beat is hosted and executive
Speaker 2: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee.
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes,
Speaker 2: Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan
Speaker 2: Papa Zachary, and our intern is Ali Amir Saheen. Our
Speaker 2: theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and
Speaker 2: only Creed Bratton.