1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:25,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Naz dropped one of the most universally loved rap 2 00:00:25,996 --> 00:00:30,596 Speaker 1: albums of all time with Illmatic. Since releasing that homage 3 00:00:30,636 --> 00:00:34,116 Speaker 1: to the gritty streets of his childhood home, Queensbridge, Naz 4 00:00:34,196 --> 00:00:37,036 Speaker 1: has remained one of the greatest mcs of all time. 5 00:00:37,756 --> 00:00:41,036 Speaker 1: I made the fade, famous to change, Famous, Jubio man, 6 00:00:41,076 --> 00:00:45,036 Speaker 1: chess mast, stainless, amazing, grace, imbraceably aged. With a few 7 00:00:45,116 --> 00:00:46,956 Speaker 1: legends in hip hop have been able to maintain the 8 00:00:47,036 --> 00:00:51,076 Speaker 1: relevance over several decades based on their skill alone, Naz 9 00:00:51,156 --> 00:00:54,596 Speaker 1: has never chased headlines or crossover success. He's always seemed 10 00:00:54,636 --> 00:00:57,876 Speaker 1: focused on elevating his craft in the culture, and that 11 00:00:57,956 --> 00:01:02,356 Speaker 1: dedications paid off King's Disease as Naza's twelfth album and 12 00:01:02,436 --> 00:01:05,676 Speaker 1: earned him his fourteenth Grammy nomination. It's up for Best 13 00:01:05,796 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: Rap Album at this year's awards. Rick Rubin connected with 14 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,556 Speaker 1: NOAs over Zoom recently to talk about his earliest experiences 15 00:01:12,556 --> 00:01:15,876 Speaker 1: with rapping queens how recording his last album with Kanye 16 00:01:15,956 --> 00:01:18,316 Speaker 1: West and Wayoming almost took him out of his own 17 00:01:18,676 --> 00:01:21,196 Speaker 1: and how early beef of jay Z made them both 18 00:01:21,396 --> 00:01:28,476 Speaker 1: stronger rappers. This is broken record liner notes for the 19 00:01:28,516 --> 00:01:37,716 Speaker 1: digital age I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin with Nasty Nos. 20 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:43,156 Speaker 1: What's going on? Legend? Everything's well? How are you, sir? Yo? 21 00:01:43,356 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 1: This is It's an honor to talk to you. Man 22 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:49,436 Speaker 1: the same. It's my pleasure always anytime I get to 23 00:01:49,476 --> 00:01:52,516 Speaker 1: see you, it's a good day. Love man. Tell me 24 00:01:52,556 --> 00:01:56,116 Speaker 1: about the music in your house when you were growing up. Huh, 25 00:01:56,636 --> 00:02:00,196 Speaker 1: My mom was playing What's you Gonna Do with My 26 00:02:00,276 --> 00:02:06,316 Speaker 1: Loving that? Stephanie Mills, Patty, you know all the records 27 00:02:06,316 --> 00:02:09,116 Speaker 1: that was out, Like I remember the early eighties records, 28 00:02:09,756 --> 00:02:15,396 Speaker 1: and then my pops was playing a wide range of 29 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:18,276 Speaker 1: of things. He had everything from the radio station with 30 00:02:18,396 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 1: Wolfman Jack. He had fail and things like that, you know, 31 00:02:23,356 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 1: Jazz whatever, Lionel, Richie whatever, all those early eighties records, 32 00:02:31,236 --> 00:02:36,796 Speaker 1: early seventy nine. I grew up at right around that 33 00:02:36,916 --> 00:02:40,916 Speaker 1: time when like the these are the breaks and rappers delight. 34 00:02:40,996 --> 00:02:44,236 Speaker 1: I was young, but I was absorbing that stuff. Would 35 00:02:44,276 --> 00:02:48,836 Speaker 1: you say that the music in that your parents played 36 00:02:48,876 --> 00:02:50,956 Speaker 1: was reflective of the other music that the kids in 37 00:02:50,956 --> 00:02:55,196 Speaker 1: the neighborhood would be hearing. Are not necessarily not necessarily 38 00:02:56,396 --> 00:03:00,676 Speaker 1: you think because of your dad's jazz background, Because the 39 00:03:01,036 --> 00:03:04,196 Speaker 1: kids a lot of the kids parents, I think were 40 00:03:04,276 --> 00:03:07,876 Speaker 1: younger than my parents. A lot of my friends parents 41 00:03:07,956 --> 00:03:11,796 Speaker 1: most of them were younger than my parents, and they 42 00:03:11,836 --> 00:03:16,996 Speaker 1: were playing the music of their time. I think my pops, 43 00:03:17,356 --> 00:03:23,516 Speaker 1: my pops, he's from Mississippi, you know, and he get 44 00:03:23,596 --> 00:03:25,916 Speaker 1: he got everything that was going on out there and 45 00:03:26,356 --> 00:03:29,316 Speaker 1: what they were playing with the other people parents that 46 00:03:29,796 --> 00:03:33,796 Speaker 1: uh and the radios was playing. But we didn't play 47 00:03:33,836 --> 00:03:36,476 Speaker 1: that in the house all the time. Now, It wasn't 48 00:03:36,476 --> 00:03:38,516 Speaker 1: like I didn't own all of those records. When I 49 00:03:38,516 --> 00:03:41,596 Speaker 1: started buying records, it was it was like I was 50 00:03:41,596 --> 00:03:43,996 Speaker 1: the record buying the house. He had jazz records, but 51 00:03:44,596 --> 00:03:48,116 Speaker 1: in African records and stuff, but it wasn't a lot 52 00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:51,436 Speaker 1: of music like you would think. Do you think that um, 53 00:03:52,196 --> 00:03:57,996 Speaker 1: having those influences affected your both appreciation of music and 54 00:03:58,036 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 1: the way that you wrote going forward. Yeah, because the 55 00:04:01,276 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 1: sounds was like disco and R and B was was 56 00:04:08,036 --> 00:04:12,716 Speaker 1: a thing. And the songs to me, they were like, um, 57 00:04:12,756 --> 00:04:15,276 Speaker 1: they were rap songs before they were rap songs like 58 00:04:15,356 --> 00:04:19,956 Speaker 1: over like a fat rat and um, you know Evelyn 59 00:04:20,036 --> 00:04:23,916 Speaker 1: Champagne king. To me, they you know, we would move 60 00:04:23,956 --> 00:04:26,156 Speaker 1: our head to it, like you know, that's the jam 61 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:29,956 Speaker 1: and that. So when I wanted to you know, when 62 00:04:29,996 --> 00:04:33,516 Speaker 1: Sugarhill Gang had the the Good Times record and they 63 00:04:33,556 --> 00:04:37,436 Speaker 1: flipped it, it was just rapping. I tried to rap 64 00:04:37,516 --> 00:04:40,236 Speaker 1: like them. I tried to I tried to rap like 65 00:04:40,476 --> 00:04:47,316 Speaker 1: Um Um Curtis Blow. So that's that's when I first 66 00:04:47,356 --> 00:04:53,236 Speaker 1: started to feel rapped like Curtis and Um and those guys. 67 00:04:53,516 --> 00:04:59,156 Speaker 1: Tela rocking them, your guys, was your first experience of 68 00:04:59,236 --> 00:05:01,316 Speaker 1: hip hop music from those records? Or was it in 69 00:05:01,356 --> 00:05:05,276 Speaker 1: the park first? It was a combination of both. It 70 00:05:05,396 --> 00:05:08,316 Speaker 1: was a combination because when I was a kid, I 71 00:05:08,316 --> 00:05:11,396 Speaker 1: would hear all the guys talking about, you know, who 72 00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:15,196 Speaker 1: was at the center last night, and the community Center 73 00:05:15,396 --> 00:05:19,076 Speaker 1: at night turned into I guess like a club or 74 00:05:19,196 --> 00:05:21,836 Speaker 1: sometimes you know, and in the park a lot of 75 00:05:21,956 --> 00:05:24,036 Speaker 1: guys would come out there. I would hear all of 76 00:05:24,076 --> 00:05:28,476 Speaker 1: these rapped legends were in the park and and hear 77 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:33,196 Speaker 1: all these stories. So yeah, it was definitely in the park, 78 00:05:33,356 --> 00:05:36,156 Speaker 1: but it was a combination as a park. And then 79 00:05:36,276 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 1: somebody's radio describe more about like the the what was 80 00:05:41,156 --> 00:05:42,916 Speaker 1: going on in the park and what was going on 81 00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:46,996 Speaker 1: in the community center. Paint the picture and I just 82 00:05:47,076 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 1: love to imagine what you saw, all right. So with 83 00:05:51,276 --> 00:05:56,076 Speaker 1: the community center parties, I was definitely too young for that. 84 00:05:57,316 --> 00:06:02,156 Speaker 1: I would see all the people going dressed up. If 85 00:06:02,156 --> 00:06:04,556 Speaker 1: it was winter, they had the sheepskin coats on. They 86 00:06:04,556 --> 00:06:07,836 Speaker 1: would excite it like I thought they were going to 87 00:06:07,956 --> 00:06:11,076 Speaker 1: some big play. I don't know where. I didn't realize 88 00:06:11,516 --> 00:06:13,876 Speaker 1: they were going right to the community center, right in 89 00:06:13,876 --> 00:06:17,836 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, because you're talking, I'm talking eighty three eighty five, 90 00:06:18,556 --> 00:06:22,396 Speaker 1: you know. And in the park they had, you know, 91 00:06:22,516 --> 00:06:25,476 Speaker 1: people would come there and they have like set up 92 00:06:25,476 --> 00:06:28,276 Speaker 1: a stage like I don't know, the city would have 93 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:30,916 Speaker 1: people come out there, set up a stage and do 94 00:06:31,476 --> 00:06:34,596 Speaker 1: shows Like I'm looking at people in costumes and stuff 95 00:06:34,636 --> 00:06:37,756 Speaker 1: like that. Just wild stuff I would see in the parks. 96 00:06:37,756 --> 00:06:39,876 Speaker 1: And then the jams will happen. When when I got 97 00:06:40,076 --> 00:06:42,596 Speaker 1: when they got to the park jams, you know, my 98 00:06:42,676 --> 00:06:44,676 Speaker 1: moms didn't want me to go over there. So we 99 00:06:44,716 --> 00:06:47,596 Speaker 1: could hear it from across the street. We could watch them, 100 00:06:47,836 --> 00:06:50,796 Speaker 1: even help them carry records. You know, you know you're 101 00:06:50,836 --> 00:06:52,556 Speaker 1: gonna throw a part, You're gonna throw a jam. We 102 00:06:52,596 --> 00:06:55,156 Speaker 1: see them coming through the block with the equipment. Get 103 00:06:55,156 --> 00:06:56,996 Speaker 1: out the way, look, get out the way kids and 104 00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:59,796 Speaker 1: we want to We were excited seeing this happen. They 105 00:06:59,836 --> 00:07:03,996 Speaker 1: were homemade speakers, all this um um the wires where 106 00:07:03,996 --> 00:07:08,396 Speaker 1: they would uh take electricity from the street lamp and 107 00:07:08,396 --> 00:07:12,076 Speaker 1: and and plug it up to the equipment outside and 108 00:07:12,436 --> 00:07:16,436 Speaker 1: watch the cops ride around to make sure everything was okay, 109 00:07:16,636 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: tell them to turn it down, and then they leave, 110 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 1: and then they turn it back up, and the cops 111 00:07:21,716 --> 00:07:23,556 Speaker 1: just got tired of messing with them. They just let it, 112 00:07:23,676 --> 00:07:26,596 Speaker 1: let it play so um. And then I got a 113 00:07:26,636 --> 00:07:28,236 Speaker 1: little older. I think it was like the end of 114 00:07:28,236 --> 00:07:32,836 Speaker 1: the community center. I remember, Um, they're being MC battles 115 00:07:32,876 --> 00:07:38,796 Speaker 1: in there is mcs from my block. Um, the illmatic mcs. 116 00:07:38,916 --> 00:07:41,836 Speaker 1: They were from my block, you know, Sudan and these 117 00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:45,196 Speaker 1: guys who I looked up to, who who were really 118 00:07:45,196 --> 00:07:47,636 Speaker 1: good at what they did. I would I would listen 119 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:50,916 Speaker 1: to them wrapped here and there. But um, how much 120 00:07:50,916 --> 00:07:53,676 Speaker 1: older were they than you? I want to say maybe 121 00:07:54,076 --> 00:07:58,636 Speaker 1: five years maybe with five five note because then I 122 00:07:58,756 --> 00:08:02,476 Speaker 1: was like maybe about six seven years. Some of them 123 00:08:02,516 --> 00:08:06,876 Speaker 1: are little older. But Jeff Rod from my building was 124 00:08:06,956 --> 00:08:09,396 Speaker 1: known for doing needle lifting. You know, he didn't even 125 00:08:09,436 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 1: have to he just knew where to lift the needle. 126 00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:14,036 Speaker 1: It wouldn't. I don't even think he had headphones on. 127 00:08:14,116 --> 00:08:17,436 Speaker 1: He just knew and he was legendary for that. The 128 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:20,276 Speaker 1: Old Brothers were in my building. They made speakers that 129 00:08:20,436 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 1: was so big they just would rattle the building, and 130 00:08:23,276 --> 00:08:25,356 Speaker 1: they won the first floor and I was on the 131 00:08:25,396 --> 00:08:28,436 Speaker 1: fifth floor, but we enjoyed it. It It would rattle the building. 132 00:08:28,836 --> 00:08:31,716 Speaker 1: But because the speakers were so big, they couldn't even 133 00:08:31,716 --> 00:08:34,956 Speaker 1: get him through the apartment door to take outside. But 134 00:08:35,076 --> 00:08:41,196 Speaker 1: the sound on it was incredible. It's amazing the home 135 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:45,436 Speaker 1: grown aspects of the hip hop culture that most people 136 00:08:45,476 --> 00:08:49,036 Speaker 1: don't know about. You know, most people experience if they 137 00:08:49,036 --> 00:08:51,236 Speaker 1: come from somewhere else, if they weren't from New York 138 00:08:51,276 --> 00:08:54,476 Speaker 1: at that period of time, they experienced it as you 139 00:08:54,516 --> 00:08:56,396 Speaker 1: know songs that came on the radio. But there was 140 00:08:56,436 --> 00:09:01,636 Speaker 1: a whole culture and life around hip hop music where 141 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:03,876 Speaker 1: it's the music was just part of it. There was 142 00:09:03,956 --> 00:09:08,196 Speaker 1: so much to it right right, definitely, there was so 143 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:11,676 Speaker 1: much to it. And you know, the style of clothes 144 00:09:11,716 --> 00:09:16,076 Speaker 1: everyone was wearing because at the time, you know, pumas 145 00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:20,356 Speaker 1: and all these different sneakers was getting taken off your 146 00:09:20,356 --> 00:09:22,916 Speaker 1: feet like if you had if you had a fresh 147 00:09:22,956 --> 00:09:25,756 Speaker 1: prayer of sneakers on and you come to that park, jam, 148 00:09:25,836 --> 00:09:28,956 Speaker 1: I'd see somebody running. I see people want your sneakers, 149 00:09:29,036 --> 00:09:32,196 Speaker 1: like just to you know, that's so funny. I was 150 00:09:32,236 --> 00:09:35,996 Speaker 1: talking to somebody the other day, how everybody's iced out now. 151 00:09:36,116 --> 00:09:38,076 Speaker 1: It's so much better now. You couldn't even wear a 152 00:09:38,116 --> 00:09:40,996 Speaker 1: gold name plate back in those days, just a regular 153 00:09:41,076 --> 00:09:44,236 Speaker 1: goal thin nameplate like Rais or blade thin on your 154 00:09:44,236 --> 00:09:45,876 Speaker 1: on your net. You couldn't even wear you We'd have 155 00:09:45,916 --> 00:09:48,396 Speaker 1: to watch where you go some places with that. So 156 00:09:48,556 --> 00:09:51,996 Speaker 1: all of that added to it. It put it was 157 00:09:52,036 --> 00:09:55,836 Speaker 1: in the energy of the music. I think when did 158 00:09:55,836 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 1: you first start writing? I think um, early eighties. It 159 00:10:00,956 --> 00:10:04,276 Speaker 1: was rest in peace to my man Andre Herrell. I 160 00:10:04,276 --> 00:10:06,996 Speaker 1: would tell him this all the time, him and his 161 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:10,516 Speaker 1: guy in the group, doctor jackoman Us to hide. They 162 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:14,556 Speaker 1: they had a story mister shark in the ocean, can 163 00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 1: you find my magic potion? And I was like, wait, 164 00:10:18,236 --> 00:10:23,836 Speaker 1: how did the story start here? And then help me 165 00:10:24,396 --> 00:10:31,836 Speaker 1: that well, I don't know, but you know Slick Rick 166 00:10:31,876 --> 00:10:36,716 Speaker 1: with Lottie Dotty, So those those those people made me like, 167 00:10:36,916 --> 00:10:40,596 Speaker 1: you know, even uh my man Mellie mel and Raheemu 168 00:10:40,916 --> 00:10:44,796 Speaker 1: Raheem's verse on Um the Message and Mellie mel the 169 00:10:44,796 --> 00:10:48,676 Speaker 1: way closes it out. Um those though, they would like 170 00:10:48,716 --> 00:10:50,876 Speaker 1: put pictures in my mind, and I was like, all right, 171 00:10:51,236 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 1: I can write from that perspective. You know, all these guys, 172 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:57,636 Speaker 1: did you did you know that it was something that 173 00:10:57,676 --> 00:11:00,196 Speaker 1: you wanted to do, like that you were going to 174 00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:04,836 Speaker 1: dedicate your life to it. You know, I didn't know 175 00:11:05,116 --> 00:11:08,956 Speaker 1: it was really possible to really get into the rap game. 176 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:12,436 Speaker 1: I know I wanted to. I know I could picture 177 00:11:12,476 --> 00:11:17,836 Speaker 1: myself in it since I mean since I first started 178 00:11:17,876 --> 00:11:21,916 Speaker 1: hearing rap. You know, I know I could picture myself 179 00:11:21,956 --> 00:11:25,716 Speaker 1: in it. I would hear like tapes by the Cold 180 00:11:25,716 --> 00:11:29,796 Speaker 1: Crush Brothers, but not really paying attention because even though 181 00:11:29,796 --> 00:11:33,156 Speaker 1: it was the most popping tape out to me, I 182 00:11:33,196 --> 00:11:36,716 Speaker 1: can hear the time in their voice. I can hear 183 00:11:36,716 --> 00:11:39,436 Speaker 1: the time and the beat, the sound. I knew that 184 00:11:40,076 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: it wasn't for me at that time. I said, end 185 00:11:42,636 --> 00:11:46,716 Speaker 1: time will be my time. But I didn't pay too 186 00:11:46,756 --> 00:11:49,556 Speaker 1: much attention to those tastes because I felt like it's 187 00:11:49,556 --> 00:11:51,596 Speaker 1: like trying to play a kid. Frank Sinatra, who I 188 00:11:51,636 --> 00:11:54,156 Speaker 1: love now, but it's like I don't get it, but 189 00:11:54,276 --> 00:11:57,316 Speaker 1: you get older, you get what they meant at the time. 190 00:11:57,876 --> 00:11:59,876 Speaker 1: But those were the times I would hear a little 191 00:11:59,876 --> 00:12:03,076 Speaker 1: bit of bits and pieces and still, you know, try 192 00:12:03,116 --> 00:12:06,636 Speaker 1: to emulate that. What was the first the first record 193 00:12:06,636 --> 00:12:09,676 Speaker 1: that you heard where it's like, oh, this is this 194 00:12:09,716 --> 00:12:12,436 Speaker 1: is not the older kids music anymore, this is my music. 195 00:12:12,956 --> 00:12:14,836 Speaker 1: I mean I knew it when I heard the breaks. 196 00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:18,716 Speaker 1: Cut your hands, everybody, if you got what it takes 197 00:12:18,796 --> 00:12:21,196 Speaker 1: by Curtis Blow, Curtis Blow, and I want you to 198 00:12:21,276 --> 00:12:26,156 Speaker 1: know that there it was grown folks music. It had 199 00:12:26,156 --> 00:12:30,596 Speaker 1: a disco sound, but the way he commanded your attention 200 00:12:30,676 --> 00:12:34,556 Speaker 1: on the song, I knew and like he didn't have 201 00:12:34,596 --> 00:12:37,636 Speaker 1: to be a singer to demand that type of respect 202 00:12:37,796 --> 00:12:40,676 Speaker 1: that a singer would demand on a record. The way 203 00:12:40,716 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 1: he spoke, his pronunciation, in what he would do with 204 00:12:45,636 --> 00:12:49,116 Speaker 1: his voice, and the breakdowns of the song would make 205 00:12:49,156 --> 00:12:51,236 Speaker 1: me go, Okay, this is this could this is a 206 00:12:51,276 --> 00:12:54,676 Speaker 1: big record. It's not an underground record, it's not a mixtape, 207 00:12:55,036 --> 00:12:58,596 Speaker 1: it's a it's a record record on a label that's known. 208 00:12:59,636 --> 00:13:04,876 Speaker 1: What was the record label, um Mercury, I think Mercury exactly. 209 00:13:04,956 --> 00:13:07,316 Speaker 1: That was a known label. So that's what I knew, 210 00:13:07,436 --> 00:13:10,916 Speaker 1: Like Okay, this thing is a real record. How did 211 00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:14,916 Speaker 1: your parents react to hip hop? My pops was was 212 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:17,076 Speaker 1: cool with it. My mom was cool with it too, 213 00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:20,756 Speaker 1: but I guess she didn't want me and my brother 214 00:13:20,836 --> 00:13:24,396 Speaker 1: to grow up to be like, like, you know, too 215 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:29,076 Speaker 1: hard whatever or two hoodlums or you know whatever they 216 00:13:29,116 --> 00:13:33,436 Speaker 1: called it back then, and show I would repeat. You know, 217 00:13:33,716 --> 00:13:35,556 Speaker 1: a son said, Daddy, I don't want to go to 218 00:13:35,596 --> 00:13:37,756 Speaker 1: school because my teacher's a jerk. She might think I'm 219 00:13:37,756 --> 00:13:39,956 Speaker 1: a fool, and all the kids smoke griefa. I think 220 00:13:39,956 --> 00:13:43,036 Speaker 1: it'd be cheaper if, you know. She's like, what you 221 00:13:43,076 --> 00:13:45,356 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and she's like, Nah, that ain't 222 00:13:45,396 --> 00:13:47,676 Speaker 1: that ain't for you. But I'm like laughing. I'm like, 223 00:13:47,836 --> 00:13:50,516 Speaker 1: it is because we're all we're all little kids, not 224 00:13:50,596 --> 00:13:53,596 Speaker 1: supposed to be singing these songs, but they're so dope 225 00:13:54,196 --> 00:13:57,316 Speaker 1: around each other. We say we're singing, we're singing the message. 226 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:00,396 Speaker 1: You asked your dad to play on your first record. 227 00:14:00,436 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 1: He played trumpet on your first records? That correct, right? 228 00:14:03,156 --> 00:14:07,236 Speaker 1: How did that come together? Like the idea of you'd 229 00:14:07,236 --> 00:14:09,996 Speaker 1: never hear a solo on a hip hop record, How 230 00:14:10,036 --> 00:14:15,036 Speaker 1: did you know to do it well? Because it's pops, 231 00:14:16,396 --> 00:14:25,756 Speaker 1: you know, mister Olu Dara. He is before my time musically, 232 00:14:25,836 --> 00:14:28,876 Speaker 1: of course, but now here it is. I am with 233 00:14:28,956 --> 00:14:33,236 Speaker 1: a record deal with Columbia Records. I'm like, yo, yo, 234 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:39,276 Speaker 1: this is so cool. Your son's on Columbia Records, rough House, Columbia, 235 00:14:39,676 --> 00:14:43,636 Speaker 1: I have an album. This is a dream that we 236 00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:47,636 Speaker 1: could do something together. So I called him, you know, 237 00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:49,756 Speaker 1: and I told him when he got to the studio, 238 00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:52,556 Speaker 1: I said, play what reminds you of me and my 239 00:14:52,636 --> 00:14:57,556 Speaker 1: brother and our family when we were kids. Just play 240 00:14:57,596 --> 00:15:11,436 Speaker 1: whatever that feels like to you. Beautiful and uh, he 241 00:15:11,556 --> 00:15:29,076 Speaker 1: played that beautiful. We'll be right back with more from 242 00:15:29,116 --> 00:15:38,276 Speaker 1: Rick Rubin and Nas after the break, We're back with 243 00:15:38,316 --> 00:15:42,316 Speaker 1: more of Rick Rubin's conversation with Nas. Tell me about 244 00:15:42,316 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 1: getting signed. Tell me about the feeling of what was 245 00:15:45,076 --> 00:15:47,756 Speaker 1: going on, what you had done at that point, and 246 00:15:47,836 --> 00:15:53,036 Speaker 1: then the excitement of that moment. Man, it was. It 247 00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:56,476 Speaker 1: was a moment that I felt like it was coming. 248 00:15:56,556 --> 00:16:00,076 Speaker 1: I felt like it was it was possible, um and 249 00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:06,476 Speaker 1: when it came, I felt of course, of course, I'm like, 250 00:16:06,596 --> 00:16:12,356 Speaker 1: I'm happy, you know, beyond happy, because I'm I'm with 251 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 1: Columbia Records. Now, I mean shout out to Chris Schwartz 252 00:16:15,476 --> 00:16:19,116 Speaker 1: and Roughhouse, shout out to Faith Newman who signed me. 253 00:16:19,796 --> 00:16:24,316 Speaker 1: Shout out to MC search who helped put that deal together. 254 00:16:25,076 --> 00:16:28,916 Speaker 1: And I was happy to be involved with so many 255 00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:32,236 Speaker 1: creative people like those people I named, people who are 256 00:16:32,716 --> 00:16:35,276 Speaker 1: to me vets in the music business. So I felt 257 00:16:35,316 --> 00:16:38,316 Speaker 1: like I was gonna be kind of protected with you know, 258 00:16:38,436 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 1: just with the tutelage and from these guys. I felt 259 00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:45,316 Speaker 1: like I was in a safe situation. So it was 260 00:16:45,396 --> 00:16:49,276 Speaker 1: it was like a super dream come true. It was 261 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:54,356 Speaker 1: it was like, this is what we all looking for 262 00:16:54,676 --> 00:16:57,276 Speaker 1: right here, and it's happening great. And tell me about 263 00:16:57,276 --> 00:16:59,756 Speaker 1: the making of the first album, the process of it. 264 00:17:00,756 --> 00:17:06,196 Speaker 1: The making of the first album was like now things 265 00:17:06,196 --> 00:17:09,876 Speaker 1: are real. Now the studios are real. Now Out had 266 00:17:09,956 --> 00:17:15,356 Speaker 1: worked in power Play studios with Lars Professor years ago before, 267 00:17:15,436 --> 00:17:17,796 Speaker 1: well like two years before I actually got a deal. 268 00:17:17,836 --> 00:17:20,756 Speaker 1: I've been in power playing. That's a serious place. But 269 00:17:20,956 --> 00:17:26,236 Speaker 1: now it's here, my budget, my album for me, not 270 00:17:26,356 --> 00:17:29,756 Speaker 1: just hanging out with Lars Professor. So now I'm here 271 00:17:29,756 --> 00:17:33,156 Speaker 1: in the house of Metal chun King. Now I'm I'm 272 00:17:33,196 --> 00:17:36,596 Speaker 1: looking at these plaques on the wall and all these 273 00:17:36,636 --> 00:17:41,076 Speaker 1: great artists and the studio is real. The engineer, I 274 00:17:41,196 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: never met him before, but he's about to be in 275 00:17:43,236 --> 00:17:46,076 Speaker 1: my life now and I'm learning from him and he's 276 00:17:46,156 --> 00:17:49,916 Speaker 1: learning about me at the same time. So I kind 277 00:17:49,956 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 1: of like a fish to water because of the previous 278 00:17:55,196 --> 00:17:57,796 Speaker 1: experience with Las Professor, and he's telling me not to 279 00:17:58,156 --> 00:18:00,796 Speaker 1: pop your ps so loud in the microphone. He's telling 280 00:18:00,836 --> 00:18:04,556 Speaker 1: me how to even stand at the microphone. So I 281 00:18:04,596 --> 00:18:07,036 Speaker 1: had some experience, and then I was working with him also, 282 00:18:07,276 --> 00:18:11,036 Speaker 1: so it was like we were both happy because he 283 00:18:11,196 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: was a wild pitch cool label, but now here I 284 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:18,476 Speaker 1: am on this major label. So we would kind of smiling, laughing, 285 00:18:18,596 --> 00:18:21,476 Speaker 1: like Okay, this is the way it's supposed to be. 286 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:24,756 Speaker 1: So we went to it like like we was waiting 287 00:18:25,076 --> 00:18:28,396 Speaker 1: from two years ago to now I'm eighteen. I got 288 00:18:28,396 --> 00:18:31,556 Speaker 1: this deal, It's go time. It was like we just 289 00:18:31,596 --> 00:18:35,356 Speaker 1: went and the were the songs written before you went 290 00:18:35,356 --> 00:18:38,156 Speaker 1: into the studio. Tell me about the process of getting 291 00:18:38,196 --> 00:18:41,276 Speaker 1: the material together. Yeah, half of the half of the 292 00:18:41,316 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: material was already done. And when I got to the studio, 293 00:18:46,156 --> 00:18:49,396 Speaker 1: when I when we started to record, I came up 294 00:18:49,436 --> 00:18:51,196 Speaker 1: with a lot of things right there on the spot 295 00:18:51,236 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 1: as well, but I would say about fifty percent was wrote. 296 00:18:55,156 --> 00:18:58,596 Speaker 1: And might you write without hearing a beat? Or we're 297 00:18:59,116 --> 00:19:02,716 Speaker 1: do you always write based on a beat? Back? Then 298 00:19:02,756 --> 00:19:05,396 Speaker 1: I wrote to different beats, Like whatever I thought was 299 00:19:05,956 --> 00:19:08,796 Speaker 1: a dope record out, I would get the instrumental and 300 00:19:08,916 --> 00:19:12,556 Speaker 1: just sloop that and right to that, like whoever's record 301 00:19:12,596 --> 00:19:14,556 Speaker 1: that I thought was hot. And then when I went 302 00:19:14,596 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 1: to the studio, I would find the timing of the 303 00:19:17,676 --> 00:19:21,356 Speaker 1: rhyme to that beat, to the new beat, my actual beat. 304 00:19:21,396 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: I would find which rap had the timing that would 305 00:19:24,476 --> 00:19:28,756 Speaker 1: blend in that beat, right understood. So you typically write 306 00:19:28,796 --> 00:19:30,316 Speaker 1: to a beat that would be not the beat that 307 00:19:30,356 --> 00:19:32,396 Speaker 1: we hear on the record, But then you would find 308 00:19:32,396 --> 00:19:34,516 Speaker 1: a beat that would work, a new beat that would 309 00:19:34,556 --> 00:19:38,636 Speaker 1: work for something you already wrote something else exactly cool, 310 00:19:38,676 --> 00:19:40,796 Speaker 1: And some of it I did get the tracks and 311 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:43,796 Speaker 1: write to it, Like um when Q Tip produced One Love, 312 00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:46,796 Speaker 1: I did get that on cassette tape and took it 313 00:19:46,876 --> 00:19:50,156 Speaker 1: home to write to it. I did get some of 314 00:19:50,156 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 1: the tracks and right there in the studio, like with Premiere, 315 00:19:53,236 --> 00:19:57,956 Speaker 1: I wrote some of it right there in the studio. Yeah, 316 00:19:58,036 --> 00:20:01,396 Speaker 1: with lis my Man. Dj elis from my neighborhood. Who 317 00:20:01,436 --> 00:20:03,836 Speaker 1: produced the song that my Pops is on Life's a Bitch. 318 00:20:04,676 --> 00:20:07,836 Speaker 1: I wrote that right there on the spot. So some 319 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:12,116 Speaker 1: of it was just spontaneous. Others was like pieces of 320 00:20:12,116 --> 00:20:14,876 Speaker 1: papers that I had just had a beginning, like maybe 321 00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:18,196 Speaker 1: like six bars, and I like this six bars, and 322 00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:21,476 Speaker 1: I match it up with another song. Another rhyme I 323 00:20:21,516 --> 00:20:24,516 Speaker 1: had was probably had like twelve bars, and and then 324 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:27,596 Speaker 1: and then I would write the last you know, four 325 00:20:27,716 --> 00:20:31,236 Speaker 1: or five bars or whatever. Would you always be writing? 326 00:20:31,276 --> 00:20:35,236 Speaker 1: Would you always be taking notes in general? Yeah? Years 327 00:20:35,236 --> 00:20:39,116 Speaker 1: ago when I was coming out of a teenager into 328 00:20:39,236 --> 00:20:45,196 Speaker 1: like my early twenties. Yeah, then I then just everything 329 00:20:45,316 --> 00:20:53,516 Speaker 1: just roller coast. So tell me about the experience of 330 00:20:53,556 --> 00:21:00,276 Speaker 1: going from really starting from essentially nothing. Not really you 331 00:21:00,716 --> 00:21:03,796 Speaker 1: came from the very beginning, and you built yourself up 332 00:21:03,836 --> 00:21:06,516 Speaker 1: to be the number one MC in New York No, 333 00:21:06,756 --> 00:21:12,676 Speaker 1: like without question, and in your fantasy of what it 334 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:15,076 Speaker 1: was going to be like what your life would be 335 00:21:15,156 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 1: like in success? How different is the reality of success 336 00:21:20,796 --> 00:21:26,716 Speaker 1: versus the fantasy of success. It's strange. Um, you know, 337 00:21:27,116 --> 00:21:34,196 Speaker 1: everyone has their own journey. Um. At times it was 338 00:21:34,236 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 1: better than I imagine. At other times it was like 339 00:21:40,316 --> 00:21:45,996 Speaker 1: what's going on? Like you know. Um, so it would 340 00:21:46,076 --> 00:21:49,756 Speaker 1: it would change, it would change. Sometimes it would really 341 00:21:49,796 --> 00:21:55,316 Speaker 1: feel like this must be like what you know. Stevie 342 00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:58,316 Speaker 1: Wonder was feeling like, this must be like what what what? 343 00:21:58,516 --> 00:22:01,196 Speaker 1: Michael was feeling like. You had those moments, whether it 344 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:05,076 Speaker 1: was like, uh, first time at an award show or 345 00:22:05,476 --> 00:22:08,516 Speaker 1: meeting somebody you never thought you'd meet and they like you, 346 00:22:09,196 --> 00:22:13,316 Speaker 1: those are those are really good moments there. So it changed. 347 00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:15,836 Speaker 1: And then give me an example of something that you 348 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:17,716 Speaker 1: thought was going to be really good that turned out 349 00:22:17,756 --> 00:22:22,596 Speaker 1: not to live up to them. I don't know, man, 350 00:22:22,636 --> 00:22:27,556 Speaker 1: it was, Um, I don't know. It's certain. There's certain 351 00:22:27,636 --> 00:22:34,316 Speaker 1: aspects of of certain people I thought would be different, 352 00:22:34,996 --> 00:22:39,636 Speaker 1: and um, they were not the nicest people. But I 353 00:22:39,716 --> 00:22:43,636 Speaker 1: appreciate the experience. Even though I looked at these people 354 00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:47,556 Speaker 1: like I had to realize their human beings like everyone else. 355 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,596 Speaker 1: They have their bad days and their good days. Um, 356 00:22:51,916 --> 00:22:55,516 Speaker 1: you know, realizing people are not superheroes really all the time. 357 00:22:55,596 --> 00:22:59,516 Speaker 1: You know these people that you look up to people. Um, 358 00:22:59,956 --> 00:23:02,756 Speaker 1: certain places I went to a smaller than I thought, 359 00:23:02,796 --> 00:23:07,076 Speaker 1: like TV sets, TV stages, sound stages, or certain television 360 00:23:07,076 --> 00:23:10,876 Speaker 1: shows or you know, things like that. Have you ever 361 00:23:10,916 --> 00:23:15,916 Speaker 1: eaten four gro in real life, I have I have Okay, 362 00:23:16,076 --> 00:23:18,916 Speaker 1: I'm just asking because it's it's a funny. It's like 363 00:23:18,956 --> 00:23:23,516 Speaker 1: we think about rap brags and that might not live 364 00:23:23,596 --> 00:23:26,556 Speaker 1: up to their actual I'm not a fan of foire 365 00:23:26,596 --> 00:23:33,436 Speaker 1: gross I had. I tried it before. I tried it before, 366 00:23:33,516 --> 00:23:37,316 Speaker 1: but I'm not a fan. It just sounds good. Yeah, 367 00:23:37,356 --> 00:23:39,636 Speaker 1: it also does sound good in a rhyme like just 368 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:43,516 Speaker 1: the nature the words sounds good. Yes, it sounds good. 369 00:23:44,636 --> 00:23:48,196 Speaker 1: Tell me about spirituality. Have you do you have a 370 00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:51,556 Speaker 1: spiritual practice or have you ever in your life? Um, 371 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:57,076 Speaker 1: there's no real practice. Um, I'm just aware, you know, 372 00:23:57,156 --> 00:24:02,236 Speaker 1: you're just aware that where where we're having a spiritual 373 00:24:02,276 --> 00:24:07,556 Speaker 1: beings having a human experience and we're just there has 374 00:24:07,556 --> 00:24:12,196 Speaker 1: to be more than here, you know. Um, And that 375 00:24:12,956 --> 00:24:16,076 Speaker 1: energy is real and you just want to keep the 376 00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:22,956 Speaker 1: energy around you. Um. Good and and and you want 377 00:24:22,996 --> 00:24:26,636 Speaker 1: to keep because energy lives forever. In my mind, you know, 378 00:24:27,116 --> 00:24:30,236 Speaker 1: I feel like we go on to see the big 379 00:24:30,276 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 1: Man upstairs from here. So do what you do here matters. 380 00:24:35,236 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 1: On the other side, also, how you how how do 381 00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:41,236 Speaker 1: you handle your business? You know, if you have to 382 00:24:41,236 --> 00:24:44,556 Speaker 1: do something that's not so great to get somewhere great. 383 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:49,076 Speaker 1: You know, you just hope that most high forgives you 384 00:24:49,516 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 1: because we're all just on our own journey. So you 385 00:24:53,516 --> 00:24:57,996 Speaker 1: have to realize that there's a there's karma and everything 386 00:24:58,036 --> 00:25:01,196 Speaker 1: you do, so you try to keep that when nobody's perfect. 387 00:25:01,276 --> 00:25:02,996 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not perfect. I'm not going to be 388 00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:05,876 Speaker 1: you know, on point all the time. But you just 389 00:25:05,956 --> 00:25:08,476 Speaker 1: hope that I try to stay in the right the 390 00:25:08,556 --> 00:25:12,796 Speaker 1: right calma, the right energy. Has having kids changed your 391 00:25:12,836 --> 00:25:16,996 Speaker 1: life big time? Big time? Yeah? I think my daughter 392 00:25:17,076 --> 00:25:20,196 Speaker 1: saved my life. She she she I was really young 393 00:25:20,236 --> 00:25:22,996 Speaker 1: when I had I was twenty years old, so I 394 00:25:23,116 --> 00:25:27,116 Speaker 1: was I was a kid. So um, I think she 395 00:25:27,116 --> 00:25:30,316 Speaker 1: she made me pay attention and say, you gotta be here. 396 00:25:31,076 --> 00:25:33,636 Speaker 1: You can't just throw it all in a wind. You 397 00:25:33,996 --> 00:25:36,716 Speaker 1: have to, you know, be cautious. You gotta be here. 398 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:40,116 Speaker 1: My son too, my son as well. Do you get 399 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:42,916 Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time with them now, Yeah, 400 00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: especially my daughter. You know, that's that's like my bestie. 401 00:25:47,276 --> 00:25:51,356 Speaker 1: That's great, That's that's my homie right there. She's very 402 00:25:51,636 --> 00:25:56,076 Speaker 1: she's busy in her life, but you know she's she's 403 00:25:56,116 --> 00:25:58,756 Speaker 1: into a lot of things, cosmetics being one of those 404 00:25:58,796 --> 00:26:02,836 Speaker 1: she has a company called lip Matic, and she's into 405 00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:06,556 Speaker 1: the arts. You know, she's into all kinds of things. 406 00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:09,796 Speaker 1: So she's busy. But we do get together. My son 407 00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:12,396 Speaker 1: not so much. He doesn't live as close to me 408 00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:15,716 Speaker 1: as her, But there's always a great time either way, 409 00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:19,196 Speaker 1: you know, Beautiful. Tell me about you got to work 410 00:26:19,196 --> 00:26:22,716 Speaker 1: with with so many of the great hip hop producers 411 00:26:22,716 --> 00:26:25,676 Speaker 1: over the years. Just tell me about the differences between 412 00:26:25,716 --> 00:26:31,396 Speaker 1: working with different people. Oh man, Um, when I work 413 00:26:31,476 --> 00:26:38,716 Speaker 1: with say Doctor Dre, I hear he's he's recovering right now. Um. 414 00:26:39,076 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 1: Prayers going out to him and his family. Working with 415 00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:46,956 Speaker 1: Doctor Dre is someone who's right there, can create there 416 00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 1: on the spot, um, and there's no telling how far 417 00:26:51,316 --> 00:26:55,676 Speaker 1: can go. He You you start with just one sound, 418 00:26:56,556 --> 00:27:03,236 Speaker 1: and his his his ear is he's like he's like 419 00:27:03,316 --> 00:27:06,476 Speaker 1: he's putting the sounds in a movie. It's that's that's 420 00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:08,036 Speaker 1: the way I see him doing hip hop. And he 421 00:27:08,076 --> 00:27:12,196 Speaker 1: just loves the most hardest shit you know, and he 422 00:27:12,236 --> 00:27:15,556 Speaker 1: wants to make it happen as big as possible, make 423 00:27:15,636 --> 00:27:18,436 Speaker 1: it sound as big as possible, as right as possible. 424 00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:23,156 Speaker 1: Working with somebody like Havoc from Mob Deep, not only 425 00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 1: did I know him since we were little kids, you know, 426 00:27:26,716 --> 00:27:29,076 Speaker 1: and we come from the same neighborhood, we're around the 427 00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:32,516 Speaker 1: same age, and we grew up on the same sounds 428 00:27:32,676 --> 00:27:36,556 Speaker 1: in the same city. So work with him is this 429 00:27:36,756 --> 00:27:42,716 Speaker 1: really grimy stuff, hard stuff. And it's like his beats 430 00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:46,156 Speaker 1: are talking to me and I can hear I could 431 00:27:46,156 --> 00:27:50,756 Speaker 1: hear having spirit in the beat, and it's like it 432 00:27:50,796 --> 00:27:54,276 Speaker 1: makes you really want to get down on the beat. 433 00:27:55,676 --> 00:28:01,956 Speaker 1: Working with somebody like um Kanye, it's like, you know, 434 00:28:02,396 --> 00:28:08,356 Speaker 1: this guy who can take he could do, he could 435 00:28:08,356 --> 00:28:11,956 Speaker 1: do electronic, he could do so, he could do, he 436 00:28:11,996 --> 00:28:15,956 Speaker 1: could do rock, he could do and his all, his 437 00:28:16,156 --> 00:28:20,596 Speaker 1: all with his spirit on it. And you know, there's 438 00:28:20,636 --> 00:28:23,356 Speaker 1: no there's no levels to how big it can go. 439 00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:28,476 Speaker 1: It could just could go anywhere. Um. So everyone has 440 00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:31,996 Speaker 1: a different approach to it because we all love this culture, 441 00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:35,396 Speaker 1: we all love this this this art form, and we're 442 00:28:35,436 --> 00:28:40,236 Speaker 1: all trying to make the stuff that blew our minds 443 00:28:40,276 --> 00:28:42,716 Speaker 1: when we were kids. I guess do you remember the 444 00:28:42,716 --> 00:28:44,676 Speaker 1: first time you heard an MC where you're like, whoa, 445 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:46,796 Speaker 1: this is something new and this is great and you 446 00:28:46,836 --> 00:28:50,436 Speaker 1: were like excited about like someone taking it to a 447 00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:53,716 Speaker 1: new place that you hadn't heard before. Um, there was 448 00:28:53,756 --> 00:28:55,756 Speaker 1: a couple of times, but the one that comes to 449 00:28:55,836 --> 00:29:00,156 Speaker 1: mind right now is Um the Educated Rapper from Utfo 450 00:29:00,876 --> 00:29:05,156 Speaker 1: on the song Rock Sand Rock Sand And I liked 451 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:08,276 Speaker 1: that he was called the educated rapper. It was like 452 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 1: he had this sona he had. He was a character almost, 453 00:29:11,756 --> 00:29:16,076 Speaker 1: But with rap music, you're using words, So to be 454 00:29:16,236 --> 00:29:19,796 Speaker 1: educated means he's got a plethora of words. So when 455 00:29:19,836 --> 00:29:23,556 Speaker 1: he was just like, you know the way his flow was, 456 00:29:23,636 --> 00:29:25,956 Speaker 1: and I said, wow, you know you can you could. 457 00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:28,556 Speaker 1: There's many styles to this, but even the Fat Boys, 458 00:29:28,636 --> 00:29:31,916 Speaker 1: even even cool Rock Ski and and and and um 459 00:29:32,516 --> 00:29:35,436 Speaker 1: and my Man's you know what I'm saying. Um, they 460 00:29:35,596 --> 00:29:38,516 Speaker 1: was like they had me trying to rap like them. 461 00:29:38,556 --> 00:29:43,076 Speaker 1: So it was everybody everybody at that time, you know. 462 00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:47,916 Speaker 1: But Shan also from our neighborhood, who could tell a 463 00:29:48,036 --> 00:29:52,236 Speaker 1: story and take you right in, you know, songs like 464 00:29:52,316 --> 00:29:57,796 Speaker 1: Jane Stopped this Crazy Thing, Um the Bridge that was 465 00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:02,836 Speaker 1: our anthem, our neighborhood. UM. So so many different artists 466 00:30:02,876 --> 00:30:06,796 Speaker 1: would bring you something that was different. You know. We'll 467 00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:13,596 Speaker 1: be back with Nahs after the break. We're back with Rick, 468 00:30:13,676 --> 00:30:16,716 Speaker 1: Rubin and Nas talking about why rap battles changed over 469 00:30:16,756 --> 00:30:19,236 Speaker 1: the years and about the once famous beef between him 470 00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:21,156 Speaker 1: and jay Z that led to some of the best 471 00:30:21,196 --> 00:30:24,996 Speaker 1: disc records of all time. Was the Bridge the first 472 00:30:24,996 --> 00:30:29,676 Speaker 1: battle record you heard? I think so, I think so. 473 00:30:29,996 --> 00:30:32,036 Speaker 1: But there were there were a couple of disc songs 474 00:30:32,036 --> 00:30:35,036 Speaker 1: out at the time. I think there was a Salt 475 00:30:35,076 --> 00:30:39,636 Speaker 1: and Pepper disc too. Don't get me wrong. I'm my 476 00:30:39,756 --> 00:30:43,076 Speaker 1: bad if I'm saying this wrong. It was all in 477 00:30:43,196 --> 00:30:45,676 Speaker 1: fun back then. But it was like a like Salton 478 00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:48,156 Speaker 1: Pepper I think had something against Dougie Fresh and to 479 00:30:48,236 --> 00:30:51,436 Speaker 1: get Fresh Crew and so I had heard, but nothing 480 00:30:51,876 --> 00:30:56,076 Speaker 1: with the magnitude of the Bridge South Bronx, the Bridges 481 00:30:56,116 --> 00:30:59,436 Speaker 1: over kill at noise, nothing like that ever. And would 482 00:30:59,476 --> 00:31:02,636 Speaker 1: you say that that was like two teams, like rival 483 00:31:02,716 --> 00:31:07,796 Speaker 1: teams sports teams. Definitely, definitely. I mean it started with 484 00:31:07,916 --> 00:31:10,356 Speaker 1: Rock San Chantay, you know, take my hat off to 485 00:31:10,436 --> 00:31:14,196 Speaker 1: the Queen. Then she went after Utfo and you know 486 00:31:14,276 --> 00:31:17,836 Speaker 1: it was it was on. But yeah, there was my 487 00:31:17,996 --> 00:31:22,236 Speaker 1: hood and it was the South Bronx. It was Queen's 488 00:31:22,276 --> 00:31:26,316 Speaker 1: Bread South Bronx, Queen's Bronx. But the Boroughs were all 489 00:31:26,636 --> 00:31:30,556 Speaker 1: they was all gunning for the top spot in New York. 490 00:31:30,996 --> 00:31:33,796 Speaker 1: So you had the Brooklyns in the House record. Um, 491 00:31:34,516 --> 00:31:37,156 Speaker 1: you know you had your you had your everybody Komode 492 00:31:37,276 --> 00:31:40,796 Speaker 1: and Harlem. Um, you had the Bronx, you had you know, 493 00:31:40,876 --> 00:31:43,316 Speaker 1: so everybody was just trying to be that number one, 494 00:31:43,796 --> 00:31:46,956 Speaker 1: that number one place. But it was always from a 495 00:31:46,996 --> 00:31:50,756 Speaker 1: point of view of like out wrapping the other. In 496 00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:52,716 Speaker 1: the early days, it never felt like there was any 497 00:31:52,876 --> 00:31:57,196 Speaker 1: real beef. It was more like performance. It wasn't actually 498 00:31:57,236 --> 00:31:59,756 Speaker 1: a fight. A fight would back then with me and 499 00:31:59,796 --> 00:32:03,516 Speaker 1: you was the sole loser. You know, like back then 500 00:32:03,596 --> 00:32:08,356 Speaker 1: it was like who's really the best at this? A 501 00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:11,596 Speaker 1: fight would just make mess the whole thing. You weren't 502 00:32:11,636 --> 00:32:13,596 Speaker 1: the best at this if you had to fight, right, 503 00:32:13,876 --> 00:32:16,836 Speaker 1: if you was that mad about it to fight, you lost. 504 00:32:17,156 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 1: So you would have to show improve with your with 505 00:32:19,836 --> 00:32:23,156 Speaker 1: your talent back then, and that's that's what built That's 506 00:32:23,196 --> 00:32:27,236 Speaker 1: what the legs of this thing is. Those guys who 507 00:32:27,316 --> 00:32:32,516 Speaker 1: would competing with each other. Um. One of the most 508 00:32:32,556 --> 00:32:37,036 Speaker 1: famous uh hip hop rivalries was between you and Jay 509 00:32:37,076 --> 00:32:45,356 Speaker 1: back in the day. And what did it feel like, uh, 510 00:32:45,356 --> 00:32:47,756 Speaker 1: you know, being the subject when you were the subject 511 00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:51,676 Speaker 1: of a of a disrecord or a challenge. Was that 512 00:32:51,876 --> 00:32:56,596 Speaker 1: justum proof that you were the top guy was at 513 00:32:56,636 --> 00:32:59,596 Speaker 1: the What was the feeling of that? Yeah, it was 514 00:32:59,676 --> 00:33:03,676 Speaker 1: all of that, and it was like the you know 515 00:33:03,716 --> 00:33:06,956 Speaker 1: it just the auto M seeing was right there on 516 00:33:07,036 --> 00:33:11,316 Speaker 1: full display. It was like, if you're in the rap game, 517 00:33:12,476 --> 00:33:16,196 Speaker 1: this can happen a battle and it was like, that's 518 00:33:16,556 --> 00:33:19,956 Speaker 1: this rap thing is real, Like a battle can really happen, 519 00:33:21,036 --> 00:33:25,316 Speaker 1: you know. So I was honored to to have that 520 00:33:25,396 --> 00:33:29,476 Speaker 1: part of my life happened because that's what that's how 521 00:33:29,516 --> 00:33:31,476 Speaker 1: I saw the Great Stewart coming up. I saw some 522 00:33:31,556 --> 00:33:35,436 Speaker 1: of the Great Stewart. It actually shed light on both 523 00:33:35,476 --> 00:33:39,836 Speaker 1: of you. Like at the time, it felt like in 524 00:33:39,876 --> 00:33:44,796 Speaker 1: the back and forth, it elevated everybody. Yeah, yeah, because 525 00:33:44,876 --> 00:33:48,196 Speaker 1: it's again it's about the art of MCing and when 526 00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 1: you're when you're trying to UM make the best stuff 527 00:33:53,996 --> 00:33:58,116 Speaker 1: you can make, and do you bump heads with another 528 00:33:58,236 --> 00:34:04,036 Speaker 1: MC and then you guys have a war whatever. That's 529 00:34:05,676 --> 00:34:08,876 Speaker 1: that's that's what this art form was was since the 530 00:34:08,876 --> 00:34:14,196 Speaker 1: beginn just double trouble and and busy being cool. You know. 531 00:34:14,756 --> 00:34:19,076 Speaker 1: But that's what I like about hip hop compared to 532 00:34:19,116 --> 00:34:22,716 Speaker 1: other genres is that they go at it in hip hop, 533 00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:25,076 Speaker 1: you know, like really at it, not to say that 534 00:34:25,156 --> 00:34:27,916 Speaker 1: other rockers didn't go at it, Other reggae artists didn't 535 00:34:27,956 --> 00:34:30,876 Speaker 1: go at other schrooners didn't go at it. But the 536 00:34:31,276 --> 00:34:33,796 Speaker 1: hip hop will always be around, I think because of 537 00:34:34,236 --> 00:34:38,476 Speaker 1: how competitive it is. Well, it's the last time you 538 00:34:38,516 --> 00:34:45,676 Speaker 1: were in Queen's Bridge. Um, I did my last I 539 00:34:45,716 --> 00:34:49,796 Speaker 1: did to not see a album with Kanye. I did 540 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:52,716 Speaker 1: the party there and then did the after party and 541 00:34:52,756 --> 00:34:54,956 Speaker 1: the actual projects because we were under the bridge for 542 00:34:55,036 --> 00:34:58,476 Speaker 1: the album released party and then went inside the projects 543 00:34:58,476 --> 00:35:01,516 Speaker 1: where I went inside the projects and party hung out 544 00:35:02,476 --> 00:35:06,036 Speaker 1: all night. How did it feel? What were the memories 545 00:35:06,036 --> 00:35:08,316 Speaker 1: that came up when you were there? I mean, I 546 00:35:08,396 --> 00:35:10,156 Speaker 1: do it. I do it from time to time. So 547 00:35:10,356 --> 00:35:13,756 Speaker 1: usually I go there, kids are not up. I go 548 00:35:13,916 --> 00:35:16,516 Speaker 1: at night and I hang with the fellas. We don't 549 00:35:16,556 --> 00:35:19,756 Speaker 1: put it on camera, we don't tape it, but countless 550 00:35:19,876 --> 00:35:22,876 Speaker 1: nights I've been there. So it was just another night. 551 00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:26,516 Speaker 1: But this night was great because underneath the bridge there's 552 00:35:26,596 --> 00:35:29,516 Speaker 1: where those legendary artists you would come to when I 553 00:35:29,596 --> 00:35:32,796 Speaker 1: was a kid, and we kind of had it in 554 00:35:32,796 --> 00:35:36,756 Speaker 1: the same area. So it was I was like lifted 555 00:35:36,836 --> 00:35:43,156 Speaker 1: up to another consciousness and everything a spiritual feeling. Happened. 556 00:35:43,956 --> 00:35:47,476 Speaker 1: I felt like I was doing what was right in 557 00:35:47,516 --> 00:35:53,356 Speaker 1: the community for the art of it. And you know, 558 00:35:53,556 --> 00:35:56,756 Speaker 1: it's years later. I've had parties everywhere for our release parties, 559 00:35:56,756 --> 00:35:59,876 Speaker 1: but to have one in my neighborhood, you know, for 560 00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:03,116 Speaker 1: the not said album was great and to go hang 561 00:36:03,116 --> 00:36:07,876 Speaker 1: out afterwards. I'm seeing people they got new names. I 562 00:36:07,956 --> 00:36:10,876 Speaker 1: still call them their old name, and they got they 563 00:36:10,956 --> 00:36:13,996 Speaker 1: got new names and stuff. You know, I remember when 564 00:36:13,996 --> 00:36:16,996 Speaker 1: they were kids, but their name now is knockout, you 565 00:36:17,036 --> 00:36:20,156 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, or something like that. Um. But 566 00:36:20,276 --> 00:36:22,276 Speaker 1: you know, most of the guys, I know their moms, 567 00:36:22,276 --> 00:36:25,156 Speaker 1: I know their dads me and they their parents are 568 00:36:25,196 --> 00:36:27,716 Speaker 1: still cool. Y'all can smoke a blunt with their kid 569 00:36:27,756 --> 00:36:30,636 Speaker 1: who's now grown up and and and then to go 570 00:36:30,716 --> 00:36:33,116 Speaker 1: have a drink with their dad, you know, two steps 571 00:36:33,116 --> 00:36:37,076 Speaker 1: away in the whole same neighborhood. So and everybody's you know, 572 00:36:37,196 --> 00:36:39,676 Speaker 1: I'm seeing people that are doing well for themselves, man. 573 00:36:39,956 --> 00:36:42,196 Speaker 1: And that's the best, you know, because I mean people 574 00:36:42,356 --> 00:36:46,116 Speaker 1: look at me like, um, probably like yo, he got 575 00:36:46,116 --> 00:36:49,476 Speaker 1: out of here, but still comes back. You know. I 576 00:36:49,556 --> 00:36:52,676 Speaker 1: have I have different things we do there. Summer camp. 577 00:36:52,756 --> 00:36:55,756 Speaker 1: I do out there and take the kids out and 578 00:36:55,876 --> 00:37:01,476 Speaker 1: other things cool. In the early days, lyrically, you talked 579 00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:03,556 Speaker 1: a lot about what was going on around you in 580 00:37:03,596 --> 00:37:08,796 Speaker 1: the hood and how as your life has developed and 581 00:37:09,116 --> 00:37:14,476 Speaker 1: as you've changed your living conditions, how do you find 582 00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:17,316 Speaker 1: what to write about? Like where does the content come 583 00:37:17,396 --> 00:37:21,876 Speaker 1: from of what you talk about? I knew years ago 584 00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:25,476 Speaker 1: that you know, moving away or wherever I was at, 585 00:37:25,556 --> 00:37:28,396 Speaker 1: I had enough to write books. I had enough to write. 586 00:37:31,476 --> 00:37:34,756 Speaker 1: I could have left the neighborhood fourteen and still had 587 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:39,436 Speaker 1: enough stuff because I had already been fed through what 588 00:37:39,556 --> 00:37:43,956 Speaker 1: I saw at fourteen and what I learned in school, 589 00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:47,556 Speaker 1: and what I read at home, and what I would 590 00:37:47,596 --> 00:37:50,076 Speaker 1: love to watch on television, all of these things I'm 591 00:37:50,076 --> 00:37:53,236 Speaker 1: watching growing up in New York. It gave me a 592 00:37:53,276 --> 00:37:57,756 Speaker 1: piece of everything. So I wanted to write screenplays when 593 00:37:57,796 --> 00:38:01,836 Speaker 1: I was young, So I was I was writing screenplays 594 00:38:01,956 --> 00:38:08,796 Speaker 1: or trying to preteen just about you know. So I 595 00:38:08,916 --> 00:38:11,116 Speaker 1: was already kind of like a writer. That was my 596 00:38:11,156 --> 00:38:15,236 Speaker 1: little hobby that nobody knew about. So I knew that 597 00:38:15,356 --> 00:38:17,276 Speaker 1: I'd be able to do it. So it doesn't matter 598 00:38:17,316 --> 00:38:22,156 Speaker 1: where I'm at, where I live, you know. Although Wyoming 599 00:38:22,356 --> 00:38:25,476 Speaker 1: was a was was kind of tough for me. It 600 00:38:25,516 --> 00:38:28,196 Speaker 1: was a great getaway to work on an I say, 601 00:38:28,196 --> 00:38:32,036 Speaker 1: an album, but that was I wasn't prepared like to 602 00:38:32,956 --> 00:38:37,276 Speaker 1: for that. But I still got it done. But I 603 00:38:37,276 --> 00:38:40,636 Speaker 1: could do it anywhere. It's really a different world. Like 604 00:38:40,956 --> 00:38:43,036 Speaker 1: growing up in New York and going to Wyoming. It's 605 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:48,476 Speaker 1: like it's different, right right. Definitely. Do songs ever come 606 00:38:48,556 --> 00:38:53,036 Speaker 1: based on a concept first? Or is it usually based 607 00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:56,196 Speaker 1: on lines? I like, I like when when there's a 608 00:38:56,236 --> 00:39:02,196 Speaker 1: concept before I even get started, because I get the 609 00:39:02,236 --> 00:39:04,916 Speaker 1: concept and then I'm like, I'm eager to get it done. 610 00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:07,236 Speaker 1: I'm like, when am I gonna go? When am I 611 00:39:07,236 --> 00:39:09,836 Speaker 1: going to go in the studio? I can't wait to 612 00:39:09,876 --> 00:39:12,036 Speaker 1: do this. I can't wait to get in there and 613 00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:15,956 Speaker 1: do this song. I write notes down on my phone, 614 00:39:16,796 --> 00:39:19,556 Speaker 1: so when I'm in the studio, I could just look 615 00:39:19,596 --> 00:39:23,276 Speaker 1: at my notes and kind of just close my eyes 616 00:39:23,316 --> 00:39:28,516 Speaker 1: and just say it. And that's how a lot of 617 00:39:28,516 --> 00:39:31,276 Speaker 1: stuff comes up. Now I hear the music, and as 618 00:39:31,316 --> 00:39:33,796 Speaker 1: soon as I hear it, I just start I start 619 00:39:33,876 --> 00:39:36,156 Speaker 1: saying the first things that cut in my head. I 620 00:39:36,196 --> 00:39:38,956 Speaker 1: don't write it down, it's just because it's too quick, 621 00:39:39,396 --> 00:39:41,276 Speaker 1: So you just say it, you know, I've been doing 622 00:39:41,276 --> 00:39:45,436 Speaker 1: it so long. You just say it, and that's how 623 00:39:45,476 --> 00:39:48,516 Speaker 1: it comes together for me now, So it sounds almost 624 00:39:48,556 --> 00:39:51,516 Speaker 1: like you write it automatically. The track comes on. You 625 00:39:51,676 --> 00:39:56,596 Speaker 1: just freestyle essentially, and then do you go back and refine? 626 00:39:57,396 --> 00:40:01,236 Speaker 1: I go back and refine. Sometimes it's not good. Sometimes 627 00:40:01,276 --> 00:40:03,796 Speaker 1: I have to go back and write it. A lot 628 00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:07,756 Speaker 1: of times, thank you. A lot of times though it's 629 00:40:07,796 --> 00:40:10,116 Speaker 1: good because you know, if you're in a good mood 630 00:40:10,236 --> 00:40:13,756 Speaker 1: or whatever the mood you are in, your energies up 631 00:40:13,796 --> 00:40:15,516 Speaker 1: and you want to lay down some stuff, or if 632 00:40:15,516 --> 00:40:18,996 Speaker 1: you're in a melancholy type of mood, you might write 633 00:40:19,076 --> 00:40:24,516 Speaker 1: something that's not the most hyper flow, but it still 634 00:40:24,596 --> 00:40:26,796 Speaker 1: gives you. You put your spirit on it and you 635 00:40:26,876 --> 00:40:29,796 Speaker 1: say what you need to say. Is there ever a 636 00:40:29,876 --> 00:40:34,476 Speaker 1: concept that goes through a whole album or is it 637 00:40:34,596 --> 00:40:38,356 Speaker 1: usually more song based. I've done some concept albums, like 638 00:40:38,436 --> 00:40:44,596 Speaker 1: the untitled album, the recent album King's Disease. It was 639 00:40:44,636 --> 00:40:49,756 Speaker 1: just basically like, you know, I'm conscious now of all 640 00:40:49,876 --> 00:40:55,316 Speaker 1: the things that we can do to hurt ourselves with 641 00:40:55,876 --> 00:41:00,236 Speaker 1: too much, with being excessive, with if you're gonna have, 642 00:41:00,356 --> 00:41:04,236 Speaker 1: if you're gonna eat bad. It's all in moderation. You 643 00:41:04,316 --> 00:41:07,036 Speaker 1: gotta watch what works for you and what doesn't work 644 00:41:07,076 --> 00:41:11,236 Speaker 1: for you. So, you know, not just the health thing, 645 00:41:11,476 --> 00:41:13,116 Speaker 1: you know, being it's all about you know, a lot 646 00:41:13,196 --> 00:41:15,756 Speaker 1: of us feel like we're kings. A lot of us 647 00:41:15,756 --> 00:41:19,116 Speaker 1: ain't kings. A lot of us. Just because you're a man, 648 00:41:19,236 --> 00:41:21,796 Speaker 1: don't make you a king, you know, I think king 649 00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:25,756 Speaker 1: is uh. There's been some terrible kings and recorded history also, 650 00:41:26,476 --> 00:41:31,156 Speaker 1: but um, you know you have to like in my 651 00:41:31,436 --> 00:41:33,556 Speaker 1: from my perspective, you got to be a good guy, 652 00:41:34,716 --> 00:41:37,276 Speaker 1: you know. So it's like taking care of yourself and 653 00:41:37,316 --> 00:41:40,836 Speaker 1: those around you. How do you think you learned that? Because, 654 00:41:40,836 --> 00:41:42,796 Speaker 1: as you said, there are some bad kings. Like how 655 00:41:42,836 --> 00:41:52,236 Speaker 1: did you learn to be cool? That's a good one there, right, Um, 656 00:41:52,316 --> 00:41:54,756 Speaker 1: I think I think I learned a lot coming up. 657 00:41:55,036 --> 00:42:01,276 Speaker 1: I think people places and in situations just watching other people, 658 00:42:02,036 --> 00:42:07,116 Speaker 1: watching it, life experiences where I saw myself doing things 659 00:42:07,156 --> 00:42:10,316 Speaker 1: that wasn't right corny, you know, coming up, and I'm 660 00:42:10,356 --> 00:42:13,356 Speaker 1: like mad at myself. Later, like you knows, I'm a 661 00:42:13,396 --> 00:42:16,756 Speaker 1: team and I'm learning and I think I know it all. 662 00:42:17,276 --> 00:42:20,196 Speaker 1: And you know, my mom used to tell me things 663 00:42:20,236 --> 00:42:23,756 Speaker 1: and later I'm like she was right, Damn. I still 664 00:42:23,796 --> 00:42:25,716 Speaker 1: say it to this day, to her life. She's not here, 665 00:42:25,916 --> 00:42:27,996 Speaker 1: but I'm like she was right about this, and that 666 00:42:28,436 --> 00:42:30,316 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have trusted this. I shouldn't have did this, 667 00:42:30,316 --> 00:42:33,596 Speaker 1: I should have did that. But just just being grateful 668 00:42:33,676 --> 00:42:39,116 Speaker 1: that I'm here, like you know, to alive, to to 669 00:42:39,116 --> 00:42:41,716 Speaker 1: to being one of those guys, to come from where 670 00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:46,396 Speaker 1: I come from and to be here. Um, I see 671 00:42:46,436 --> 00:42:48,956 Speaker 1: which people, I see which people made mistakes. I see 672 00:42:48,996 --> 00:42:52,196 Speaker 1: which people made mistakes, but it wasn't their fault, but 673 00:42:52,196 --> 00:42:55,516 Speaker 1: their heart resented. So I still it's still honorable what 674 00:42:55,556 --> 00:42:59,556 Speaker 1: they did. I start weighing things out and trying to 675 00:42:59,556 --> 00:43:01,796 Speaker 1: see what did I want for me and what did 676 00:43:01,836 --> 00:43:05,236 Speaker 1: I want to give back? And I always wanted to 677 00:43:05,276 --> 00:43:09,716 Speaker 1: be somebody that could help somebody here, helps mighty there, 678 00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:14,156 Speaker 1: and and just just because I want to see them 679 00:43:15,636 --> 00:43:18,516 Speaker 1: reach their full potential, because I think that's what we're 680 00:43:18,516 --> 00:43:21,836 Speaker 1: supposed to do. So that's the most important thing. That 681 00:43:21,916 --> 00:43:25,796 Speaker 1: was it for me? Beautiful? How has your relationship to 682 00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:29,836 Speaker 1: hip hop music changed from being a kid to now? 683 00:43:31,636 --> 00:43:33,916 Speaker 1: I don't keep up. I can't keep up with the 684 00:43:34,076 --> 00:43:37,956 Speaker 1: music today like I could back then. Back then, everything 685 00:43:37,996 --> 00:43:41,476 Speaker 1: that came out was exciting, even the wax stuff. I 686 00:43:41,516 --> 00:43:44,316 Speaker 1: would buy wax stuff sometimes and just stare at the 687 00:43:44,356 --> 00:43:47,876 Speaker 1: albums and what label they were on and who produced this, 688 00:43:47,996 --> 00:43:51,916 Speaker 1: and I would just want to understand it all. Now, Nah, 689 00:43:52,076 --> 00:43:57,596 Speaker 1: I'm like nah. Sometimes now the things still hit you 690 00:43:57,676 --> 00:44:01,676 Speaker 1: with that are like whoa, this is great? Yeah. Yeah, 691 00:44:01,756 --> 00:44:03,516 Speaker 1: And most of the times I don't know who made 692 00:44:03,516 --> 00:44:06,836 Speaker 1: those records, you know. I'm you know, when when the 693 00:44:06,836 --> 00:44:10,716 Speaker 1: world was more normal, I was outside, I was at clubs, 694 00:44:10,756 --> 00:44:14,876 Speaker 1: i was at parties, I was around, and I'm hearing 695 00:44:14,956 --> 00:44:19,036 Speaker 1: songs that normally I wouldn't know just being in my 696 00:44:19,156 --> 00:44:22,316 Speaker 1: regular life. You know, it was just it was the songs. 697 00:44:22,356 --> 00:44:24,436 Speaker 1: I go, what is that? And I would forget to 698 00:44:24,516 --> 00:44:30,636 Speaker 1: hit shazam, you know. So there's all kinds of songs 699 00:44:30,676 --> 00:44:32,796 Speaker 1: you know that that hit me. I'm like, who is 700 00:44:32,836 --> 00:44:34,996 Speaker 1: that guy? Like that guy? And as I'm starting to 701 00:44:34,996 --> 00:44:38,156 Speaker 1: get into this guy, there's a whole new movement happening. 702 00:44:38,636 --> 00:44:41,036 Speaker 1: And as I'm getting into this whole new movement, three 703 00:44:41,076 --> 00:44:44,716 Speaker 1: more just started, so I figured I'll catch up to 704 00:44:44,756 --> 00:44:47,476 Speaker 1: it when I get a chance. Yeah, it's an exciting 705 00:44:47,516 --> 00:44:50,436 Speaker 1: time when there's so much new stuff. What were you 706 00:44:50,556 --> 00:44:54,756 Speaker 1: thinking working on? It's Yours with Tila Rock. I think 707 00:44:54,836 --> 00:45:00,716 Speaker 1: the main purpose of it was the feeling of the club, 708 00:45:00,836 --> 00:45:04,156 Speaker 1: like what DJs were doing and drum machines and sort 709 00:45:04,156 --> 00:45:06,836 Speaker 1: of the feeling of the hip hop club, which I 710 00:45:06,956 --> 00:45:09,596 Speaker 1: relate to what you experienced at the park. It probably 711 00:45:09,676 --> 00:45:12,316 Speaker 1: very similar, but the records that were coming out at 712 00:45:12,396 --> 00:45:15,276 Speaker 1: that time didn't sound like that at all. So It's 713 00:45:15,316 --> 00:45:17,436 Speaker 1: Yours was really just like it was almost like a 714 00:45:17,476 --> 00:45:22,676 Speaker 1: documentary of what the club really felt like, right versus 715 00:45:22,716 --> 00:45:26,036 Speaker 1: the records made by professionals who didn't really know what 716 00:45:26,116 --> 00:45:30,036 Speaker 1: happened in the club. That was totally the sound and 717 00:45:30,236 --> 00:45:34,396 Speaker 1: Tea Rocks rom schemes was crazy. What I always wanted 718 00:45:34,436 --> 00:45:36,956 Speaker 1: an eight O eight rolland eight OW eight or nine 719 00:45:36,996 --> 00:45:39,476 Speaker 1: O nine? Which one did you use on that? That 720 00:45:39,556 --> 00:45:41,756 Speaker 1: was an eight o eight. That nine O nine is 721 00:45:41,796 --> 00:45:48,556 Speaker 1: a little more like um, more like euro dancy. It's 722 00:45:48,916 --> 00:45:50,716 Speaker 1: it's like a tighter sound was the eight o eight. 723 00:45:50,756 --> 00:45:54,276 Speaker 1: It's more booming. And you were planning on doing a 724 00:45:54,356 --> 00:45:58,636 Speaker 1: whole Tila Rock album or you don't know, probably, I 725 00:45:58,676 --> 00:46:00,996 Speaker 1: mean it was so early in those days. Really all 726 00:46:01,036 --> 00:46:05,676 Speaker 1: there were were singles. Hardly anyone had albums, so all 727 00:46:05,716 --> 00:46:09,716 Speaker 1: there really were were twelve inches, and I remember Russell said, 728 00:46:09,796 --> 00:46:11,556 Speaker 1: you know, I think this is going to be you know, 729 00:46:11,596 --> 00:46:14,356 Speaker 1: albums is where it's hot, and I didn't. I didn't 730 00:46:14,396 --> 00:46:16,836 Speaker 1: know that albums. You know, I grew up buying albums 731 00:46:16,876 --> 00:46:19,836 Speaker 1: because I liked rock music. But it almost felt like 732 00:46:19,836 --> 00:46:22,076 Speaker 1: what made hip hop hip hop at that time were 733 00:46:22,116 --> 00:46:26,796 Speaker 1: twelve inches, you know, twelve inch singles, right, So I 734 00:46:26,836 --> 00:46:30,716 Speaker 1: just thought it was a twelve inch single world. So 735 00:46:30,756 --> 00:46:34,076 Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking so much about albums at that time, right. 736 00:46:34,516 --> 00:46:39,116 Speaker 1: So with with Walk This Way, so you knew that 737 00:46:39,156 --> 00:46:43,076 Speaker 1: at this point, Run DMC had become the biggest instantly 738 00:46:43,116 --> 00:46:46,116 Speaker 1: the biggest rap group in the world. Um, there's still 739 00:46:46,116 --> 00:46:48,996 Speaker 1: to me, the biggest best rap group that ever happened 740 00:46:48,996 --> 00:46:53,676 Speaker 1: to hip hop. Um, you knew that with Arrowsmith that 741 00:46:54,236 --> 00:46:56,436 Speaker 1: they had went as high as they could go, and 742 00:46:56,636 --> 00:46:59,356 Speaker 1: Run DMC and raps high they can go, and they 743 00:46:59,356 --> 00:47:03,356 Speaker 1: needed to merge or what. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. 744 00:47:03,996 --> 00:47:06,636 Speaker 1: It was we'd pretty much finished the album without Walk 745 00:47:06,716 --> 00:47:10,076 Speaker 1: This Way on it. And I remember I was at 746 00:47:10,516 --> 00:47:16,316 Speaker 1: a dinner in California with a guy from a big 747 00:47:16,356 --> 00:47:20,596 Speaker 1: record company who was like trying to convince us to 748 00:47:20,836 --> 00:47:27,796 Speaker 1: come work with their record company, and he said, how 749 00:47:27,836 --> 00:47:31,716 Speaker 1: can you explain the success of this music? How can 750 00:47:31,716 --> 00:47:34,996 Speaker 1: you explain the success of rap? It's not even music, 751 00:47:35,436 --> 00:47:38,156 Speaker 1: Like this isn't music. And I started thinking, it's like 752 00:47:39,236 --> 00:47:41,676 Speaker 1: this guy's being nice to me, you know what I mean. 753 00:47:41,716 --> 00:47:45,396 Speaker 1: He's he's he's trying to invite me in, and he's 754 00:47:45,396 --> 00:47:47,876 Speaker 1: telling me hip hop isn't music as far as he 755 00:47:47,916 --> 00:47:52,516 Speaker 1: can hear. So I see that there's this big disconnect 756 00:47:53,196 --> 00:47:56,076 Speaker 1: between the people who are who feel hip hop and 757 00:47:56,156 --> 00:47:59,076 Speaker 1: the people who don't understand it at all. And I 758 00:47:59,156 --> 00:48:02,476 Speaker 1: was looking for something to bridge that gap. And because 759 00:48:02,516 --> 00:48:05,156 Speaker 1: I started thinking about there there are these records that 760 00:48:05,276 --> 00:48:08,636 Speaker 1: are not so far off, like you you mentioned one 761 00:48:08,716 --> 00:48:11,556 Speaker 1: or earlier, you mentioned a record earlier that you're like, well, 762 00:48:11,556 --> 00:48:13,716 Speaker 1: this is sort of a precursor to hip hop records, 763 00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:16,716 Speaker 1: and like you could see, it's like, oh, this is 764 00:48:16,756 --> 00:48:19,076 Speaker 1: like the roots of hip hop in this. So I 765 00:48:19,156 --> 00:48:22,316 Speaker 1: just started thinking about records that were like rap, like 766 00:48:22,676 --> 00:48:27,916 Speaker 1: vocals that somebody who didn't understand rap music would understand. 767 00:48:28,316 --> 00:48:30,076 Speaker 1: And the first song that I thought of was Walk 768 00:48:30,156 --> 00:48:32,516 Speaker 1: This Way, because like the verses of Walk this Way 769 00:48:32,836 --> 00:48:37,436 Speaker 1: are essentially rhyme scheme versus but people know it as 770 00:48:37,476 --> 00:48:42,676 Speaker 1: a rock song, So it was more as a bridging 771 00:48:42,796 --> 00:48:46,116 Speaker 1: that gap so that people could see, Oh, this isn't 772 00:48:46,796 --> 00:48:49,036 Speaker 1: I thought it was more different than it is. It's 773 00:48:49,076 --> 00:48:52,556 Speaker 1: like this is something that's always been part of the language. 774 00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:56,036 Speaker 1: It's just a part of the language. It made it 775 00:48:56,076 --> 00:49:00,116 Speaker 1: like rock and rap are the same. They are the same, yes, 776 00:49:00,716 --> 00:49:04,716 Speaker 1: and and they and their roots are really similar. It's 777 00:49:04,756 --> 00:49:09,516 Speaker 1: like it's not so far different, right right, So that 778 00:49:09,636 --> 00:49:11,796 Speaker 1: was that was the purpose of it. It really was 779 00:49:11,876 --> 00:49:15,196 Speaker 1: just to like, and how howd the person not said 780 00:49:15,236 --> 00:49:17,716 Speaker 1: that to me? I wouldn't have felt like there was 781 00:49:17,756 --> 00:49:19,956 Speaker 1: this mission, you know, I had this mission of like, 782 00:49:21,076 --> 00:49:24,596 Speaker 1: people are missing what this is. There has to be 783 00:49:24,636 --> 00:49:28,876 Speaker 1: a way to explain what it is. Just musically you 784 00:49:29,036 --> 00:49:35,516 Speaker 1: did that. He did that. Thank you for that. My pleasure, man, 785 00:49:35,556 --> 00:49:40,036 Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. Same love. Speak to you soon, 786 00:49:40,076 --> 00:49:47,276 Speaker 1: sir Love. Thanks to NAS for taking Rick back to 787 00:49:47,316 --> 00:49:50,156 Speaker 1: the Queen's Bridge of the eighties and nineties and reminiscing 788 00:49:50,196 --> 00:49:52,516 Speaker 1: about the early days of himp hop. You can hear 789 00:49:52,556 --> 00:49:54,436 Speaker 1: all of your favorite NAS songs on the playlist at 790 00:49:54,516 --> 00:49:57,876 Speaker 1: Broken record podcast dot com. To be sure to subscribe 791 00:49:57,876 --> 00:50:00,836 Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken 792 00:50:00,876 --> 00:50:04,076 Speaker 1: Record podcast where you can find extendicuts of news one 793 00:50:04,116 --> 00:50:07,116 Speaker 1: all of the episodes. Broken Record is produced with helpful 794 00:50:07,156 --> 00:50:11,716 Speaker 1: Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and our 795 00:50:11,756 --> 00:50:15,716 Speaker 1: intern Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffee and 796 00:50:15,756 --> 00:50:18,836 Speaker 1: it's executive produced by Mia Lobell. Broken Record is a 797 00:50:18,876 --> 00:50:21,596 Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record, 798 00:50:21,716 --> 00:50:24,036 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review our show on 799 00:50:24,116 --> 00:50:26,876 Speaker 1: your podcast. At a theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm 800 00:50:26,916 --> 00:50:28,876 Speaker 1: justin Richmond bass