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Speaker 1: at four p m. On January nine, two thousand and fourteen,
Speaker 1: as New York shivered through a sub zero chill, Sena,
Speaker 1: a Chinese internet company, ended a day of trading on
Speaker 1: the NAS deck, down four point five percent. Initially, that
Speaker 1: didn't seem so bad. One of seen As subsidiaries, as
Speaker 1: social messaging service called wheep Or, was actually growing quite rapidly,
Speaker 1: and seen as ches had recently hit a six month high.
Speaker 1: Nobody predicted the horror to come over the next fifteen months.
Speaker 1: Seen As stock nose dived. At one point, Ches fell
Speaker 1: sixty two percent to just thirty dollars apiece. The company
Speaker 1: lost more than half of its value. Around this time,
Speaker 1: the Chinese government was clamping down on social networks and
Speaker 1: investors were selling Chinese tech stocks. Investors were worried about
Speaker 1: an overall slowdown in the Chinese economy, and a new
Speaker 1: messaging service called which Hat was taking the market by storm.
Speaker 1: Here's how Charles Chow, the chairman, have seen and remembers it.
Speaker 1: And of course you feel disappointed that your fear set
Speaker 1: a little bit, but the necessary reality he had to
Speaker 1: deal with it. You have to deal with it well.
Speaker 1: Charles certainly dealt with it. In fact, he put everything
Speaker 1: on the line. He took out a loan for a
Speaker 1: quarter billion dollars and he combined that with almost everything
Speaker 1: he had, putting much of his personal wealth at stake.
Speaker 1: With that money, he bought up nearly half a billion
Speaker 1: dollars have seen as shares right as their price was
Speaker 1: hitting rock bottom, and he engineered a pretty remarkable turnaround
Speaker 1: for his company. Today, Charles Chow is on track to
Speaker 1: be come one of China's newest billionaires. Hi, I'm Brad
Speaker 1: Stone and I'm David Rambling and this week I'm decrypted.
Speaker 1: Will hear China's biggest technology comeback story direct from Weibo
Speaker 1: CEO Charles Chow, man who pulled it off. Will also
Speaker 1: look at plans we boll has her internet video streaming
Speaker 1: and the online finance sector, and whether it holds any
Speaker 1: lessons to Twitter, us social messaging platform, which is struggling
Speaker 1: to turn a profit. It's difficult to understate the popularity
Speaker 1: of Weibo and China, a place where Internet giants like
Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter are literally non existent, and yet despite
Speaker 1: its position of strength and it's incredible stuff market rebound,
Speaker 1: there's still big questions about where the we' boll can
Speaker 1: keep its growth story going and for how long stay
Speaker 1: with us. So we just compared way abou to Twitter.
Speaker 1: That may be a good comparison in terms of what
Speaker 1: the product does, but in reality Weibo is much more
Speaker 1: popular in China than Twitter is in the US. That's right.
Speaker 1: Wey boar uses are concentrated in China, where three and
Speaker 1: forty million people use the app at least once a month,
Speaker 1: but Twitter, which is used all over the world, has
Speaker 1: a slightly smaller user base. And Charles webo ceo David
Speaker 1: how did you meet him? Well, he's a member of
Speaker 1: the China Entrepreneurs Club, which is a sort of billionaires playground.
Speaker 1: Every year on Earth Day they hold what's called the
Speaker 1: China Green Company Summit, where members like Charles and Jack
Speaker 1: mar who's the billionaire who co founded the online retailer
Speaker 1: Ali Baba, they get together and they talk about pretty
Speaker 1: much anything except for green issues. I'm at Childs and
Speaker 1: the tallest tower of the exhibition complex and song So
Speaker 1: the city hosting the summit this year near the top
Speaker 1: of the tower as an Australian steakhouse known simply as
Speaker 1: the Grill. What's Charles like in person? The word I'd
Speaker 1: use is measured. Despite being a former reporter, Charles is
Speaker 1: incredibly media shy. He does less than three interviews a year,
Speaker 1: and I've been chasing him for almost a year just
Speaker 1: to line up this chat. Once you set him down, though,
Speaker 1: he's quite polite and generous with this time, but he
Speaker 1: talks as though he could just stand up at any moment.
Speaker 1: It's possibly a holder from his days as an amateur boxer. Wow.
Speaker 1: So a former reporter and an amateur boxer. So if
Speaker 1: you're an American investor, it's it sounds like there's plenty
Speaker 1: of to like about Charles. He graduated from two U
Speaker 1: s universities, worked as an auditor at Price Waterhouse Cooper's,
Speaker 1: and he's a true veteran of the industry. He's been
Speaker 1: at Sena since nine, when a friend convinced him to
Speaker 1: join the finance team. I have been experienced older major
Speaker 1: I think periods up internet market in China. And I've
Speaker 1: been with this company for eighteen years already. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's a long time back. Then Sina was like an
Speaker 1: early Yahoo, what we used to call an Internet portal.
Speaker 1: You went there for hyperlinks to interesting websites and to
Speaker 1: look up the news. Also, like Yahoo, it had a
Speaker 1: big profile in China during those PC heavy early years.
Speaker 1: Charles arrived at Sena just as the company was preparing
Speaker 1: for its I p O. And that's the reason joint company.
Speaker 1: They need somebody whould help to do the I p
Speaker 1: O from professional saying. It was a career defining move
Speaker 1: for Charles. Sina went public in April two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: Years later, Charles took over a CEO. As a young
Speaker 1: public company, Sena suffered a few setbacks. It had tried
Speaker 1: to launch an auctions business with Yahoo in two thousand
Speaker 1: and four, but the online retailer Ali Baba was growing
Speaker 1: so fast that competing efforts really got crowded out by
Speaker 1: the market. Then Sena branched into search engines, only to
Speaker 1: it beaten by bay Do. Incidentally, Sina wasn't the only
Speaker 1: loser in search. Google tried to establish itself in China,
Speaker 1: but pulled out in two thousand ten before getting blocked
Speaker 1: by the Chinese government, effectively leaving bai Do with a
Speaker 1: monopoly in the search space. Then in two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: three years after Twitter first launched, Sina created we Bow.
Speaker 1: Twitter stint in China didn't last long either. In the
Speaker 1: same year that we Will launched two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: the Chinese government blocked Twitter because it refused to go
Speaker 1: along with censorship guidelines. It left we bore an open market,
Speaker 1: although Childs will tell you that we Will also had
Speaker 1: a better product, like for example, which is much better
Speaker 1: in many ways on Facebook, right, And I think I'll
Speaker 1: product is much better than Twitter, and I think it
Speaker 1: fits local market much better, and so that's the difference.
Speaker 1: Initially things went fairly well for we Bow. Fourteen months
Speaker 1: after waunching, we both had fifteen million registered users. It
Speaker 1: took three years to hit that milestone. By fall of
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, it had two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: seven million uses, and this became four hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: four million just a year later. But by two thousand
Speaker 1: and fourteen things were going awrve. What has really been
Speaker 1: an unprecedented widespread public protests from Alexandrians. The Arab spring
Speaker 1: was taking off, galvanized by social networks like Twitter. Margaret,
Speaker 1: we heard this again and again. They wanted to make
Speaker 1: Tunisia happen here, and a big question was the Chinese
Speaker 1: government facing its own sort of Jasmine revolution. Online was
Speaker 1: prompted to track down as well, and there were economic
Speaker 1: worries at home. China's gross domestic product growth was starting
Speaker 1: to slump to levels not seen since the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 1: and tech companies, even Mighty Ali Baba, we're seeing their
Speaker 1: share prices falter. But the biggest problem was actually we
Speaker 1: Chat has been going through some difficulties in the challenging market,
Speaker 1: especially with ours. Say that they that the introduction of
Speaker 1: we Chat, I mean that has a big impact on
Speaker 1: the usage and under gross of way board. We Chat
Speaker 1: started out as the WhatsApp of China, but it has
Speaker 1: quickly become the Swiss Army Knife of apps in the
Speaker 1: sense that you can do so many more things than
Speaker 1: just messaging inside this one app. Perhaps because of that,
Speaker 1: we Chat has spread through China like wildfire. Today it's
Speaker 1: the undisputed king of the country social messaging market. We
Speaker 1: Chad's launched coincided with China's seismic shift to mobile. By contrast,
Speaker 1: seen it was more oriented towards desktop browsers. And also
Speaker 1: we've we were starting to see its growth rate slow down.
Speaker 1: It's a significant impacted gross rate of way board and
Speaker 1: also the mentality and the momentum how I say, we
Speaker 1: boss growths. The combination of mobile we chat and the
Speaker 1: slowing Chinese on we came at the worst possible time
Speaker 1: for childs, you know, the internet product. If once you
Speaker 1: have lost momentum, it's very hard to come back. You see,
Speaker 1: Charles was trying to spin off weep Or from Sina
Speaker 1: and floated on the NASDAC as a separate company. Charles
Speaker 1: was trying to reduce risk because Sena had pumped huge
Speaker 1: amounts of money into making wee boar success. Charles was
Speaker 1: betting that if you could just convince rural Chinese and
Speaker 1: people living in provincial cities and industrial towns to start
Speaker 1: using webor, he'd be able to unlock a huge new
Speaker 1: customer base for his company. But now the numbers were
Speaker 1: trending the wrong way. If the attempt to I p
Speaker 1: O had come a year or even a few months earlier,
Speaker 1: it may have gone off without a hitch. I would
Speaker 1: say that's major reasons for people had a pret d
Speaker 1: pessimistic view about Webor and for that fact, I mean
Speaker 1: because we Bo was the major gross area for Sena.
Speaker 1: That also em passiness start price investors started hitting the
Speaker 1: cell button on Sena shares. Charles City was kind of
Speaker 1: blindsided by the reason why foreign investors were feeling so
Speaker 1: nervous about his stock. Usually they have a Chinese anrist.
Speaker 1: They were earlier users and the strong users, very heavy users,
Speaker 1: and way by saying I alway don't use that anymore.
Speaker 1: But actually they wanted to present a part of elite users.
Speaker 1: I have to say, David, I've also heard from my
Speaker 1: Chinese friends and colleagues too that they're migrating from way
Speaker 1: Aboard to whet chat. So that's why investors didn't want
Speaker 1: to buy seen A stock. Yeah. Put simply, yes, a
Speaker 1: lot of investors were very excited about China, but they
Speaker 1: simply didn't have any local no. How So when deals
Speaker 1: came up, they did what most of us would probably
Speaker 1: do if we're planning a holiday. They asked a colleague
Speaker 1: with a connection to China. I mean, they did not
Speaker 1: really know that. You know, Okay, these people actually more
Speaker 1: using more weak chat now, but we actually have a
Speaker 1: lot more new users not from group and she from
Speaker 1: lautier cities, younger generations, and so that's the market. They
Speaker 1: did not understand how that's Charles's rural strategy again, lower
Speaker 1: tier cities, younger generations. Basically, he's saying that he was
Speaker 1: sure his product would still grow. It's just that financial
Speaker 1: analysts went picking up on that in the highly educated,
Speaker 1: urban social circles. The result, to hear Charles tell it,
Speaker 1: was absolutely brutal. The rest of its story is coming
Speaker 1: up right after this word from our sponsor. You know
Speaker 1: where you want to be. Red hat has the broad
Speaker 1: portfolio of open source technologies to get you there. Meet
Speaker 1: your evolving business challenges head on with secure solutions for
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Speaker 1: red hat dot com slash open tech to learn more,
Speaker 1: red Hat the open technology to help you realize your vision. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back and things are about to get rocky for
Speaker 1: we both CEO Charles Chow. Chinese internet users are switching
Speaker 1: to mobile a dangerous new competitor. Wee Chat is taking off,
Speaker 1: and the national economy as a whole is slowing down.
Speaker 1: Sena shares are starting to take a beating in the markets,
Speaker 1: and Charles is trying to take his company public at
Speaker 1: what turns out to be the worst possible time. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're looking our presentation for i PO three years ago,
Speaker 1: we out land our state intense. Nobody believed does okay,
Speaker 1: it was totally disaster. I mean intense to I p
Speaker 1: O show, I can tell you I never experienced anything
Speaker 1: like that. Weibo eventually listed with an initial share price
Speaker 1: that was at the bottom of the proposed range at
Speaker 1: seventeen dollars a share. The I p O raised half
Speaker 1: of what it was supposed to. Instead of five hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars, the float raised only two hundred and eighty
Speaker 1: six million dollars. To make matters worse, Sena became unprofitable
Speaker 1: as users shifted their attention to we chat and now
Speaker 1: the platforms like video streaming services. Right China went through
Speaker 1: a really dramatic shift to mobile. Many people never had
Speaker 1: desktop computers in the first place, and had been accessing
Speaker 1: the web via Internet cafes. Now the smartphone became their
Speaker 1: first personal internet device, and Sina started to rely more
Speaker 1: and more heavily on Weibo to generate revenue. It was
Speaker 1: the only part of Sina's business that really tapped into mobile.
Speaker 1: Charles did try a number of other experiments to get
Speaker 1: growth going again. I mean, he partnered with Ali Bomber
Speaker 1: and a digital wallet that that didn't work out. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to imagine the stress Charles was under at the time.
Speaker 1: By the end of two dozen fourteen, after a lackluster
Speaker 1: weebo ip O, equity analysts were downgrading the reading some Sina.
Speaker 1: Speculation was actually building that a big rival like Ali
Speaker 1: Baba would actually come along and buy out the business,
Speaker 1: and that could lead to Charles basically getting kicked to
Speaker 1: the curb. But it was at the height of this
Speaker 1: turmoil that Childs did something really remarkable. Child says he
Speaker 1: always felt the market didn't understand how good his companies were.
Speaker 1: Investors were treating Sena as if we Bore was the
Speaker 1: only business in its portfolio with any value. So Charles
Speaker 1: made the bet of a lifetime. He scrounged, he saved.
Speaker 1: He went to Credit Sweet to take out a two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty million dollar loan. That's nearly a quarter
Speaker 1: of a billion dollars. Then in June two thousand and fifteen,
Speaker 1: Senior announced to the market that Charles had bought four
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six million dollars worth of Senor shares
Speaker 1: right when it's stopped. Price was near rock bottom. This
Speaker 1: new stern traders in the financial world who are following
Speaker 1: the company. One of those people was Brendan A. Hearne,
Speaker 1: the chief investment officer at Crane Fund Advisors living in
Speaker 1: New York. Imagine him going into see his bankers and
Speaker 1: saying he wants to borrow several hundred million dollars in
Speaker 1: order to invest in his company. He's he's become so
Speaker 1: frustrated with the lack of market recognition that the true
Speaker 1: value of of sena know. It's almost like a poker
Speaker 1: player where he's pushing the chips out into the center
Speaker 1: of the table. In other words, Charles was going all in.
Speaker 1: Here's why Charles's decision to buy so much company stock
Speaker 1: is such a big deal. Apart from the fact that
Speaker 1: Charles was taking quite a massive personal risk by taking
Speaker 1: on all the debt and putting his entire fortunate stake.
Speaker 1: It gave Charles a lot more influence over the company,
Speaker 1: and then I sa big shareholder. I'm more I was
Speaker 1: sitting position to making to make long term decisions for
Speaker 1: the company. And that's the difference. I think. If you're
Speaker 1: not a pictureholder, part of you are not your interests
Speaker 1: not related to the company for long run. For CEO
Speaker 1: puppet company, you tend to make short decisions based on
Speaker 1: the profitability, based on stop price, based on the people's expectation.
Speaker 1: But for our business, if you cannot bet on something
Speaker 1: big for the future, you don't have future. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: people like Brendan the trader in New York, Charles's move
Speaker 1: made him sit up and pay attention to what was
Speaker 1: happening at CENA. When when have you seen a CEO
Speaker 1: put such a large bet monetarily m on on on
Speaker 1: his on their company. I think that's, you know, not
Speaker 1: not many comparisons come to mind. It was just such
Speaker 1: an unusually bold thing to do. For his part, Child insists,
Speaker 1: it's not a gamble when you're sure of the odds.
Speaker 1: I mean, my experience has also been quite unique in
Speaker 1: a way that not only I become that that that
Speaker 1: that's U and Cherm of the company. But also I've
Speaker 1: become an ages shareholder of that company, and a part
Speaker 1: of because I love the company, part of because I
Speaker 1: believe in the company's future. Back at the steakhouse, Child
Speaker 1: and I had a great view of Junctrol's hazy skyline.
Speaker 1: It's one of those countless Chinese cities that people from
Speaker 1: outside the country would really struggle to name, and yet
Speaker 1: it has a population around ten million people. Cities like
Speaker 1: this were essential to Charles plan. Yes, the idea was
Speaker 1: to go big on provincial cities like Jountrol. People had
Speaker 1: long ignored the slice of the market for very good reasons. Actually,
Speaker 1: salaries were very low and people frankly didn't have that
Speaker 1: much extra cash to spend. So David, how exactly does
Speaker 1: we bow make money? Essentially in much the same way
Speaker 1: that Twitter does, mostly through targeted online ads. From the
Speaker 1: moment you download the app, you're being tracked as an individual,
Speaker 1: and we Bore serves up ads based on the profile
Speaker 1: they collect about you. You know what your interests are,
Speaker 1: your gender, and your tasting clothes, whether you'd potentially be
Speaker 1: a buyer of designer brands, and this is why many
Speaker 1: Chinese companies have ignored lower tier cities, right, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the average Chinese person already makes just a fraction of
Speaker 1: your average American or European and the Gulf just gets
Speaker 1: even wider as you move away from the biggest cities
Speaker 1: like Beijing or Shanghai. But we bore pushed on and
Speaker 1: its smartest move is actually getting we bore pre installed
Speaker 1: on low cost smartphones. I see. So suddenly you have
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of new smartphone users who have no
Speaker 1: idea what to do with them. They open their phone
Speaker 1: and what do you know, there's we bow Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Boredom ultimately was one of the biggest drivers of weyboards
Speaker 1: adoption out in these regional areas. You know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of Tier four cities that don't have shopping models
Speaker 1: or movie theaters. Right, So what do people do when
Speaker 1: they get off work? This is Kirk Bowdrey and analysts
Speaker 1: who track Scena for New Street Research. He's based in Singapore.
Speaker 1: It's actually, you know, engaging on on you know, social
Speaker 1: platforms has become a very popular UM activity and monetization
Speaker 1: on the back of that actually shouldn't be too surprising,
Speaker 1: especially um you know, if if you're brand advertising, David
Speaker 1: was we Bow alone and targeting these regional areas. Other
Speaker 1: services tried the same strategy, but Charles understood the power
Speaker 1: of media. Sites like Twitter and we board depend on
Speaker 1: user generated content. But they soon learned that while big
Speaker 1: city dwellers like the sound of their own tweets, uses
Speaker 1: out in the provincial cities they prefer to watch, So
Speaker 1: we Bore targeted local TV stations and signed up journalists
Speaker 1: around the country. In the first half of two thousand
Speaker 1: and fifteen, we Bore apartment with a hundred different TV
Speaker 1: shows and eighty six movies. It worked directly with TV
Speaker 1: shows like The Voice of China to boost interaction. Even
Speaker 1: police departments were signing up, producing low cost content that
Speaker 1: was relevant to the new rule users. Charles realized that
Speaker 1: some users just had no idea how to use the app,
Speaker 1: so it also launched a service that offers news and
Speaker 1: feeds based on your interests. The more you use it,
Speaker 1: the better it gets guessing what you want to see.
Speaker 1: All the while, China's mobile internet speeds were improving, so
Speaker 1: we Bo integrated pictures and video into its feed faster
Speaker 1: than Twitter. Charles turnaround strategy was working the monthly active
Speaker 1: US account has been up by at least for quarter
Speaker 1: after quarter, but did it actually make any money. We
Speaker 1: board did manage to win over advertisers. Revenue growth soon recovered,
Speaker 1: and so did profits. For one thing, expenses are also
Speaker 1: lower outs out of the main city, so it turned
Speaker 1: out that many Chinese customers had more disposable income than
Speaker 1: people had initially expected, but not everyone. As a fan.
Speaker 1: To survive in this market, we boar had to clap
Speaker 1: down hard on any comments or posts seemed to be
Speaker 1: against the wishes of the government. In Beijing, thousands of
Speaker 1: people are employed just to delete posts on sensitive topics.
Speaker 1: Users are always trying to game the system and get
Speaker 1: around censorship rules. The Tenement Square demonstrations happened on June four,
Speaker 1: which is a blocked search term on we bow, so
Speaker 1: people started using May thirty five instead, and this worked
Speaker 1: for a while until the sensors caught on. More recently,
Speaker 1: things have become much more serious. The Chinese government pointedly
Speaker 1: threatened people who posted defamatory room is on we bol
Speaker 1: with jail time, but Chat was unapologetic and even points
Speaker 1: to seen his ability to adapt to the government's wishes
Speaker 1: as a key reason it will thrive as other players
Speaker 1: might fall. China is different. You had to put things
Speaker 1: in Chinese perspective. But look at I was a generous before,
Speaker 1: like like in eighties in China at that time, there
Speaker 1: was nothing right. There was no media. It was only
Speaker 1: like propaganda right, even with censorship on weyboard. Ordinary people
Speaker 1: can complain about some things that may seem small to
Speaker 1: Western audience, but in China it's actually really big deal,
Speaker 1: and Charles is quite proud of that. I think it's
Speaker 1: a it's a huge sense of success for us to
Speaker 1: say we have this platform that allow people to freely
Speaker 1: talk and to discuss and to make the society much
Speaker 1: more transparent. Basically, it's a huge I think progress. For now,
Speaker 1: Cinia gets to take a moment to enjoy its success
Speaker 1: against the odds. At the very least, it's proven to
Speaker 1: be more than just a Twitter knockoff. Twitter would love
Speaker 1: to be wi Bo, not the other way around. Here's
Speaker 1: bending again. You're going and look at Wibo for the
Speaker 1: first time, and this is not Twitter. This is this
Speaker 1: is much further along. And the utilization video technology uh
Speaker 1: mobile is huge, and then the monetization of ad revenue.
Speaker 1: We Boars investment in video is a great case in point.
Speaker 1: It owns a substantial stake in Yeesha Technology, which is
Speaker 1: valued at three billion dollars and has a service for
Speaker 1: short web videos called meal Pack. But unlike Vine, which
Speaker 1: had fifteen second videos, these companies aren't religious about enforcing
Speaker 1: the short lengths, and so they both work symbiotically to
Speaker 1: build users. So Churnles has managed to pull off this
Speaker 1: incredibly daring turnaround. We both plans to keep going burnt
Speaker 1: into increasingly rural parts of China, the fourth and fifth
Speaker 1: tier cities. But will this be enough to keep growing
Speaker 1: the company, particularly as we chat becomes more and more dominant.
Speaker 1: But fundamentally the answer is no. China's smartphone market is
Speaker 1: becoming mature and it needs to find new ways to grow.
Speaker 1: We Boor has thought about offering a Netflix style streaming
Speaker 1: video service, but it really got bullied out of the
Speaker 1: market years ago by bigger players like bay Do and
Speaker 1: Ali Baba with bigger budgets. So instead it's banking on
Speaker 1: things like live streaming and short video services to generate
Speaker 1: more traffic. It's also getting into financial services like online loans.
Speaker 1: That's right, Charles is a little reticent on the details
Speaker 1: in light of fierce competition, and the program is not
Speaker 1: going as quickly as Scena would like. You know, licenses
Speaker 1: are taking longer than expected to get but there's a
Speaker 1: separate subsidiary company dedicated to making it work. David. That's
Speaker 1: also a space in which scene as competing with multibillion
Speaker 1: dollar companies like ten Cent and Financial Right. That's true,
Speaker 1: but I will say Charles has heard naysayers before. For
Speaker 1: now there's a mix of quiet satisfaction and also excitement
Speaker 1: at the company. It's a moment to breathe. As we
Speaker 1: finished up our time together with a restaurant staff packing up,
Speaker 1: I asked him if he felt vindicated, No question about that,
Speaker 1: or your very delighted. And I think is somewhere fulfill
Speaker 1: in terse our success, and then I think it's it's
Speaker 1: and then no question, it's a it's a demonstration of ability, achievement, vision, everything.
Speaker 1: And that's it for this week's DECRYPTO. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear what you thought of this episode.
Speaker 1: It's a report a voice message and send it to
Speaker 1: Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at
Speaker 1: at David Randling and I'm at Bradstone. If you haven't already,
Speaker 1: please subscribe to our show on iTunes or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a
Speaker 1: rating in a review. It really helps more listeners find
Speaker 1: the show. This episode was produced by Pierre Gadkari, Liz Smith,
Speaker 1: and Magnus Hendrickson. A big thank you, guys, to Taylor
Speaker 1: Hole and Nico Grant they work on the story, and
Speaker 1: to Jeff Muscus who edited my article in Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week about the same issue. Alec McCay is the head
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts and we will see you next week.
Speaker 1: Decrypted is brought to you by red Hat, whose broad
Speaker 1: portfolio of open source technologies for the enterprise helps you
Speaker 1: get from where you are to where you want to be.
Speaker 1: Red Hat the open technology to help you realize your vision.
Speaker 1: Learn more at red hat dot com, slash opent tech