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Speaker 1: Decrypted is brought to you by red hat, whose broad

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Speaker 1: portfolio of open source technologies for the enterprise helps you

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Speaker 1: get from where you are to where you want to be.

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Speaker 1: Red Hat the open technology to help you realize your vision.

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Speaker 1: Learn more at red hat dot com. Slash open Tech

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Speaker 1: at four p m. On January nine, two thousand and fourteen,

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Speaker 1: as New York shivered through a sub zero chill, Sena,

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Speaker 1: a Chinese internet company, ended a day of trading on

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Speaker 1: the NAS deck, down four point five percent. Initially, that

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Speaker 1: didn't seem so bad. One of seen As subsidiaries, as

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Speaker 1: social messaging service called wheep Or, was actually growing quite rapidly,

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Speaker 1: and seen as ches had recently hit a six month high.

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Speaker 1: Nobody predicted the horror to come over the next fifteen months.

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Speaker 1: Seen As stock nose dived. At one point, Ches fell

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Speaker 1: sixty two percent to just thirty dollars apiece. The company

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Speaker 1: lost more than half of its value. Around this time,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese government was clamping down on social networks and

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Speaker 1: investors were selling Chinese tech stocks. Investors were worried about

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Speaker 1: an overall slowdown in the Chinese economy, and a new

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Speaker 1: messaging service called which Hat was taking the market by storm.

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Speaker 1: Here's how Charles Chow, the chairman, have seen and remembers it.

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Speaker 1: And of course you feel disappointed that your fear set

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Speaker 1: a little bit, but the necessary reality he had to

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Speaker 1: deal with it. You have to deal with it well.

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Speaker 1: Charles certainly dealt with it. In fact, he put everything

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Speaker 1: on the line. He took out a loan for a

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Speaker 1: quarter billion dollars and he combined that with almost everything

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Speaker 1: he had, putting much of his personal wealth at stake.

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Speaker 1: With that money, he bought up nearly half a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars have seen as shares right as their price was

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Speaker 1: hitting rock bottom, and he engineered a pretty remarkable turnaround

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Speaker 1: for his company. Today, Charles Chow is on track to

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Speaker 1: be come one of China's newest billionaires. Hi, I'm Brad

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Speaker 1: Stone and I'm David Rambling and this week I'm decrypted.

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Speaker 1: Will hear China's biggest technology comeback story direct from Weibo

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Speaker 1: CEO Charles Chow, man who pulled it off. Will also

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Speaker 1: look at plans we boll has her internet video streaming

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Speaker 1: and the online finance sector, and whether it holds any

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Speaker 1: lessons to Twitter, us social messaging platform, which is struggling

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Speaker 1: to turn a profit. It's difficult to understate the popularity

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Speaker 1: of Weibo and China, a place where Internet giants like

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Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter are literally non existent, and yet despite

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Speaker 1: its position of strength and it's incredible stuff market rebound,

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Speaker 1: there's still big questions about where the we' boll can

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Speaker 1: keep its growth story going and for how long stay

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Speaker 1: with us. So we just compared way abou to Twitter.

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Speaker 1: That may be a good comparison in terms of what

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Speaker 1: the product does, but in reality Weibo is much more

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Speaker 1: popular in China than Twitter is in the US. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Wey boar uses are concentrated in China, where three and

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Speaker 1: forty million people use the app at least once a month,

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Speaker 1: but Twitter, which is used all over the world, has

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Speaker 1: a slightly smaller user base. And Charles webo ceo David

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Speaker 1: how did you meet him? Well, he's a member of

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Speaker 1: the China Entrepreneurs Club, which is a sort of billionaires playground.

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Speaker 1: Every year on Earth Day they hold what's called the

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Speaker 1: China Green Company Summit, where members like Charles and Jack

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Speaker 1: mar who's the billionaire who co founded the online retailer

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Speaker 1: Ali Baba, they get together and they talk about pretty

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Speaker 1: much anything except for green issues. I'm at Childs and

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Speaker 1: the tallest tower of the exhibition complex and song So

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Speaker 1: the city hosting the summit this year near the top

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Speaker 1: of the tower as an Australian steakhouse known simply as

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Speaker 1: the Grill. What's Charles like in person? The word I'd

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Speaker 1: use is measured. Despite being a former reporter, Charles is

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Speaker 1: incredibly media shy. He does less than three interviews a year,

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Speaker 1: and I've been chasing him for almost a year just

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Speaker 1: to line up this chat. Once you set him down, though,

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Speaker 1: he's quite polite and generous with this time, but he

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Speaker 1: talks as though he could just stand up at any moment.

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Speaker 1: It's possibly a holder from his days as an amateur boxer. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So a former reporter and an amateur boxer. So if

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Speaker 1: you're an American investor, it's it sounds like there's plenty

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Speaker 1: of to like about Charles. He graduated from two U

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Speaker 1: s universities, worked as an auditor at Price Waterhouse Cooper's,

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Speaker 1: and he's a true veteran of the industry. He's been

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Speaker 1: at Sena since nine, when a friend convinced him to

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Speaker 1: join the finance team. I have been experienced older major

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Speaker 1: I think periods up internet market in China. And I've

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Speaker 1: been with this company for eighteen years already. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's a long time back. Then Sina was like an

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Speaker 1: early Yahoo, what we used to call an Internet portal.

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Speaker 1: You went there for hyperlinks to interesting websites and to

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Speaker 1: look up the news. Also, like Yahoo, it had a

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Speaker 1: big profile in China during those PC heavy early years.

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Speaker 1: Charles arrived at Sena just as the company was preparing

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Speaker 1: for its I p O. And that's the reason joint company.

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Speaker 1: They need somebody whould help to do the I p

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Speaker 1: O from professional saying. It was a career defining move

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Speaker 1: for Charles. Sina went public in April two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: Years later, Charles took over a CEO. As a young

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Speaker 1: public company, Sena suffered a few setbacks. It had tried

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Speaker 1: to launch an auctions business with Yahoo in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, but the online retailer Ali Baba was growing

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Speaker 1: so fast that competing efforts really got crowded out by

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Speaker 1: the market. Then Sena branched into search engines, only to

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Speaker 1: it beaten by bay Do. Incidentally, Sina wasn't the only

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Speaker 1: loser in search. Google tried to establish itself in China,

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Speaker 1: but pulled out in two thousand ten before getting blocked

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Speaker 1: by the Chinese government, effectively leaving bai Do with a

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Speaker 1: monopoly in the search space. Then in two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: three years after Twitter first launched, Sina created we Bow.

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Speaker 1: Twitter stint in China didn't last long either. In the

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Speaker 1: same year that we Will launched two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese government blocked Twitter because it refused to go

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Speaker 1: along with censorship guidelines. It left we bore an open market,

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Speaker 1: although Childs will tell you that we Will also had

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Speaker 1: a better product, like for example, which is much better

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Speaker 1: in many ways on Facebook, right, And I think I'll

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Speaker 1: product is much better than Twitter, and I think it

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Speaker 1: fits local market much better, and so that's the difference.

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Speaker 1: Initially things went fairly well for we Bow. Fourteen months

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Speaker 1: after waunching, we both had fifteen million registered users. It

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Speaker 1: took three years to hit that milestone. By fall of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, it had two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: seven million uses, and this became four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: four million just a year later. But by two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fourteen things were going awrve. What has really been

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Speaker 1: an unprecedented widespread public protests from Alexandrians. The Arab spring

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Speaker 1: was taking off, galvanized by social networks like Twitter. Margaret,

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Speaker 1: we heard this again and again. They wanted to make

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Speaker 1: Tunisia happen here, and a big question was the Chinese

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Speaker 1: government facing its own sort of Jasmine revolution. Online was

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Speaker 1: prompted to track down as well, and there were economic

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Speaker 1: worries at home. China's gross domestic product growth was starting

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Speaker 1: to slump to levels not seen since the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: and tech companies, even Mighty Ali Baba, we're seeing their

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Speaker 1: share prices falter. But the biggest problem was actually we

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Speaker 1: Chat has been going through some difficulties in the challenging market,

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Speaker 1: especially with ours. Say that they that the introduction of

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Speaker 1: we Chat, I mean that has a big impact on

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Speaker 1: the usage and under gross of way board. We Chat

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Speaker 1: started out as the WhatsApp of China, but it has

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Speaker 1: quickly become the Swiss Army Knife of apps in the

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Speaker 1: sense that you can do so many more things than

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Speaker 1: just messaging inside this one app. Perhaps because of that,

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Speaker 1: we Chat has spread through China like wildfire. Today it's

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Speaker 1: the undisputed king of the country social messaging market. We

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Speaker 1: Chad's launched coincided with China's seismic shift to mobile. By contrast,

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Speaker 1: seen it was more oriented towards desktop browsers. And also

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Speaker 1: we've we were starting to see its growth rate slow down.

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Speaker 1: It's a significant impacted gross rate of way board and

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Speaker 1: also the mentality and the momentum how I say, we

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Speaker 1: boss growths. The combination of mobile we chat and the

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Speaker 1: slowing Chinese on we came at the worst possible time

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Speaker 1: for childs, you know, the internet product. If once you

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Speaker 1: have lost momentum, it's very hard to come back. You see,

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Speaker 1: Charles was trying to spin off weep Or from Sina

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Speaker 1: and floated on the NASDAC as a separate company. Charles

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Speaker 1: was trying to reduce risk because Sena had pumped huge

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Speaker 1: amounts of money into making wee boar success. Charles was

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Speaker 1: betting that if you could just convince rural Chinese and

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Speaker 1: people living in provincial cities and industrial towns to start

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Speaker 1: using webor, he'd be able to unlock a huge new

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Speaker 1: customer base for his company. But now the numbers were

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Speaker 1: trending the wrong way. If the attempt to I p

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Speaker 1: O had come a year or even a few months earlier,

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Speaker 1: it may have gone off without a hitch. I would

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Speaker 1: say that's major reasons for people had a pret d

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Speaker 1: pessimistic view about Webor and for that fact, I mean

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Speaker 1: because we Bo was the major gross area for Sena.

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Speaker 1: That also em passiness start price investors started hitting the

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Speaker 1: cell button on Sena shares. Charles City was kind of

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Speaker 1: blindsided by the reason why foreign investors were feeling so

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Speaker 1: nervous about his stock. Usually they have a Chinese anrist.

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Speaker 1: They were earlier users and the strong users, very heavy users,

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Speaker 1: and way by saying I alway don't use that anymore.

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Speaker 1: But actually they wanted to present a part of elite users.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, David, I've also heard from my

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Speaker 1: Chinese friends and colleagues too that they're migrating from way

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Speaker 1: Aboard to whet chat. So that's why investors didn't want

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Speaker 1: to buy seen A stock. Yeah. Put simply, yes, a

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Speaker 1: lot of investors were very excited about China, but they

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Speaker 1: simply didn't have any local no. How So when deals

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Speaker 1: came up, they did what most of us would probably

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Speaker 1: do if we're planning a holiday. They asked a colleague

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Speaker 1: with a connection to China. I mean, they did not

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Speaker 1: really know that. You know, Okay, these people actually more

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Speaker 1: using more weak chat now, but we actually have a

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Speaker 1: lot more new users not from group and she from

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Speaker 1: lautier cities, younger generations, and so that's the market. They

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Speaker 1: did not understand how that's Charles's rural strategy again, lower

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Speaker 1: tier cities, younger generations. Basically, he's saying that he was

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Speaker 1: sure his product would still grow. It's just that financial

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Speaker 1: analysts went picking up on that in the highly educated,

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Speaker 1: urban social circles. The result, to hear Charles tell it,

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Speaker 1: was absolutely brutal. The rest of its story is coming

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Speaker 1: up right after this word from our sponsor. You know

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Speaker 1: application integration and development, operations management, and beyond the at

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Speaker 1: red hat dot com slash open tech to learn more,

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Speaker 1: red Hat the open technology to help you realize your vision. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're back and things are about to get rocky for

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Speaker 1: we both CEO Charles Chow. Chinese internet users are switching

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Speaker 1: to mobile a dangerous new competitor. Wee Chat is taking off,

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Speaker 1: and the national economy as a whole is slowing down.

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Speaker 1: Sena shares are starting to take a beating in the markets,

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Speaker 1: and Charles is trying to take his company public at

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Speaker 1: what turns out to be the worst possible time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking our presentation for i PO three years ago,

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Speaker 1: we out land our state intense. Nobody believed does okay,

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Speaker 1: it was totally disaster. I mean intense to I p

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Speaker 1: O show, I can tell you I never experienced anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Weibo eventually listed with an initial share price

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Speaker 1: that was at the bottom of the proposed range at

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Speaker 1: seventeen dollars a share. The I p O raised half

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Speaker 1: of what it was supposed to. Instead of five hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars, the float raised only two hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: six million dollars. To make matters worse, Sena became unprofitable

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Speaker 1: as users shifted their attention to we chat and now

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Speaker 1: the platforms like video streaming services. Right China went through

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Speaker 1: a really dramatic shift to mobile. Many people never had

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Speaker 1: the web via Internet cafes. Now the smartphone became their

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Speaker 1: first personal internet device, and Sina started to rely more

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Speaker 1: and more heavily on Weibo to generate revenue. It was

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Speaker 1: the only part of Sina's business that really tapped into mobile.

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Speaker 1: Charles did try a number of other experiments to get

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Speaker 1: growth going again. I mean, he partnered with Ali Bomber

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Speaker 1: and a digital wallet that that didn't work out. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to imagine the stress Charles was under at the time.

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Speaker 1: By the end of two dozen fourteen, after a lackluster

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Speaker 1: weebo ip O, equity analysts were downgrading the reading some Sina.

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Speaker 1: Speculation was actually building that a big rival like Ali

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Speaker 1: Baba would actually come along and buy out the business,

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Speaker 1: and that could lead to Charles basically getting kicked to

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Speaker 1: the curb. But it was at the height of this

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Speaker 1: turmoil that Childs did something really remarkable. Child says he

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Speaker 1: always felt the market didn't understand how good his companies were.

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Speaker 1: Investors were treating Sena as if we Bore was the

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Speaker 1: only business in its portfolio with any value. So Charles

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Speaker 1: made the bet of a lifetime. He scrounged, he saved.

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Speaker 1: He went to Credit Sweet to take out a two

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty million dollar loan. That's nearly a quarter

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Speaker 1: of a billion dollars. Then in June two thousand and fifteen,

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Speaker 1: Senior announced to the market that Charles had bought four

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six million dollars worth of Senor shares

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Speaker 1: right when it's stopped. Price was near rock bottom. This

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Speaker 1: new stern traders in the financial world who are following

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Speaker 1: the company. One of those people was Brendan A. Hearne,

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Speaker 1: the chief investment officer at Crane Fund Advisors living in

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Speaker 1: New York. Imagine him going into see his bankers and

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Speaker 1: saying he wants to borrow several hundred million dollars in

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Speaker 1: order to invest in his company. He's he's become so

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Speaker 1: frustrated with the lack of market recognition that the true

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Speaker 1: value of of sena know. It's almost like a poker

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Speaker 1: player where he's pushing the chips out into the center

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Speaker 1: of the table. In other words, Charles was going all in.

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Speaker 1: Here's why Charles's decision to buy so much company stock

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Speaker 1: is such a big deal. Apart from the fact that

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Speaker 1: Charles was taking quite a massive personal risk by taking

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Speaker 1: on all the debt and putting his entire fortunate stake.

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Speaker 1: It gave Charles a lot more influence over the company,

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Speaker 1: and then I sa big shareholder. I'm more I was

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Speaker 1: sitting position to making to make long term decisions for

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Speaker 1: the company. And that's the difference. I think. If you're

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Speaker 1: not a pictureholder, part of you are not your interests

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Speaker 1: not related to the company for long run. For CEO

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Speaker 1: puppet company, you tend to make short decisions based on

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Speaker 1: the profitability, based on stop price, based on the people's expectation.

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Speaker 1: But for our business, if you cannot bet on something

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Speaker 1: big for the future, you don't have future. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: people like Brendan the trader in New York, Charles's move

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Speaker 1: made him sit up and pay attention to what was

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Speaker 1: happening at CENA. When when have you seen a CEO

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Speaker 1: put such a large bet monetarily m on on on

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Speaker 1: his on their company. I think that's, you know, not

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Speaker 1: not many comparisons come to mind. It was just such

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Speaker 1: an unusually bold thing to do. For his part, Child insists,

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Speaker 1: it's not a gamble when you're sure of the odds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my experience has also been quite unique in

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Speaker 1: a way that not only I become that that that

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Speaker 1: that's U and Cherm of the company. But also I've

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Speaker 1: become an ages shareholder of that company, and a part

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Speaker 1: of because I love the company, part of because I

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Speaker 1: believe in the company's future. Back at the steakhouse, Child

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Speaker 1: and I had a great view of Junctrol's hazy skyline.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those countless Chinese cities that people from

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Speaker 1: outside the country would really struggle to name, and yet

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Speaker 1: it has a population around ten million people. Cities like

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Speaker 1: this were essential to Charles plan. Yes, the idea was

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Speaker 1: to go big on provincial cities like Jountrol. People had

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Speaker 1: long ignored the slice of the market for very good reasons. Actually,

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Speaker 1: salaries were very low and people frankly didn't have that

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Speaker 1: much extra cash to spend. So David, how exactly does

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Speaker 1: we bow make money? Essentially in much the same way

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Speaker 1: that Twitter does, mostly through targeted online ads. From the

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Speaker 1: moment you download the app, you're being tracked as an individual,

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Speaker 1: and we Bore serves up ads based on the profile

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Speaker 1: they collect about you. You know what your interests are,

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Speaker 1: your gender, and your tasting clothes, whether you'd potentially be

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Speaker 1: a buyer of designer brands, and this is why many

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Speaker 1: Chinese companies have ignored lower tier cities, right, Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the average Chinese person already makes just a fraction of

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Speaker 1: your average American or European and the Gulf just gets

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Speaker 1: even wider as you move away from the biggest cities

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Speaker 1: like Beijing or Shanghai. But we bore pushed on and

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Speaker 1: its smartest move is actually getting we bore pre installed

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Speaker 1: on low cost smartphones. I see. So suddenly you have

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of new smartphone users who have no

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Speaker 1: idea what to do with them. They open their phone

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Speaker 1: and what do you know, there's we bow Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Boredom ultimately was one of the biggest drivers of weyboards

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Speaker 1: adoption out in these regional areas. You know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of Tier four cities that don't have shopping models

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Speaker 1: or movie theaters. Right, So what do people do when

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Speaker 1: they get off work? This is Kirk Bowdrey and analysts

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Speaker 1: who track Scena for New Street Research. He's based in Singapore.

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Speaker 1: It's actually, you know, engaging on on you know, social

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Speaker 1: platforms has become a very popular UM activity and monetization

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Speaker 1: on the back of that actually shouldn't be too surprising,

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Speaker 1: especially um you know, if if you're brand advertising, David

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Speaker 1: was we Bow alone and targeting these regional areas. Other

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Speaker 1: services tried the same strategy, but Charles understood the power

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Speaker 1: of media. Sites like Twitter and we board depend on

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Speaker 1: user generated content. But they soon learned that while big

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Speaker 1: city dwellers like the sound of their own tweets, uses

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Speaker 1: out in the provincial cities they prefer to watch, So

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Speaker 1: we Bore targeted local TV stations and signed up journalists

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Speaker 1: around the country. In the first half of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fifteen, we Bore apartment with a hundred different TV

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Speaker 1: shows and eighty six movies. It worked directly with TV

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Speaker 1: shows like The Voice of China to boost interaction. Even

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Speaker 1: police departments were signing up, producing low cost content that

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Speaker 1: was relevant to the new rule users. Charles realized that

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Speaker 1: some users just had no idea how to use the app,

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Speaker 1: so it also launched a service that offers news and

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Speaker 1: feeds based on your interests. The more you use it,

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Speaker 1: the better it gets guessing what you want to see.

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Speaker 1: All the while, China's mobile internet speeds were improving, so

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Speaker 1: we Bo integrated pictures and video into its feed faster

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Speaker 1: than Twitter. Charles turnaround strategy was working the monthly active

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Speaker 1: US account has been up by at least for quarter

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Speaker 1: after quarter, but did it actually make any money. We

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Speaker 1: board did manage to win over advertisers. Revenue growth soon recovered,

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Speaker 1: and so did profits. For one thing, expenses are also

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Speaker 1: lower outs out of the main city, so it turned

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Speaker 1: out that many Chinese customers had more disposable income than

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Speaker 1: people had initially expected, but not everyone. As a fan.

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Speaker 1: To survive in this market, we boar had to clap

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Speaker 1: down hard on any comments or posts seemed to be

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Speaker 1: against the wishes of the government. In Beijing, thousands of

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Speaker 1: people are employed just to delete posts on sensitive topics.

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Speaker 1: Users are always trying to game the system and get

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Speaker 1: around censorship rules. The Tenement Square demonstrations happened on June four,

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Speaker 1: which is a blocked search term on we bow, so

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Speaker 1: people started using May thirty five instead, and this worked

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Speaker 1: for a while until the sensors caught on. More recently,

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Speaker 1: things have become much more serious. The Chinese government pointedly

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Speaker 1: threatened people who posted defamatory room is on we bol

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Speaker 1: with jail time, but Chat was unapologetic and even points

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Speaker 1: to seen his ability to adapt to the government's wishes

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Speaker 1: as a key reason it will thrive as other players

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Speaker 1: might fall. China is different. You had to put things

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Speaker 1: in Chinese perspective. But look at I was a generous before,

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Speaker 1: like like in eighties in China at that time, there

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Speaker 1: was nothing right. There was no media. It was only

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Speaker 1: like propaganda right, even with censorship on weyboard. Ordinary people

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Speaker 1: can complain about some things that may seem small to

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Speaker 1: Western audience, but in China it's actually really big deal,

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Speaker 1: and Charles is quite proud of that. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a huge sense of success for us to

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Speaker 1: say we have this platform that allow people to freely

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Speaker 1: talk and to discuss and to make the society much

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Speaker 1: more transparent. Basically, it's a huge I think progress. For now,

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Speaker 1: Cinia gets to take a moment to enjoy its success

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Speaker 1: against the odds. At the very least, it's proven to

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Speaker 1: be more than just a Twitter knockoff. Twitter would love

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Speaker 1: to be wi Bo, not the other way around. Here's

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Speaker 1: bending again. You're going and look at Wibo for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and this is not Twitter. This is this

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Speaker 1: is much further along. And the utilization video technology uh

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Speaker 1: mobile is huge, and then the monetization of ad revenue.

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Speaker 1: We Boars investment in video is a great case in point.

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Speaker 1: It owns a substantial stake in Yeesha Technology, which is

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Speaker 1: valued at three billion dollars and has a service for

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Speaker 1: short web videos called meal Pack. But unlike Vine, which

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Speaker 1: had fifteen second videos, these companies aren't religious about enforcing

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Speaker 1: the short lengths, and so they both work symbiotically to

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Speaker 1: build users. So Churnles has managed to pull off this

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Speaker 1: incredibly daring turnaround. We both plans to keep going burnt

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Speaker 1: into increasingly rural parts of China, the fourth and fifth

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Speaker 1: tier cities. But will this be enough to keep growing

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Speaker 1: the company, particularly as we chat becomes more and more dominant.

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Speaker 1: But fundamentally the answer is no. China's smartphone market is

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Speaker 1: becoming mature and it needs to find new ways to grow.

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Speaker 1: We Boor has thought about offering a Netflix style streaming

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Speaker 1: video service, but it really got bullied out of the

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Speaker 1: market years ago by bigger players like bay Do and

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Speaker 1: Ali Baba with bigger budgets. So instead it's banking on

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Speaker 1: things like live streaming and short video services to generate

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Speaker 1: more traffic. It's also getting into financial services like online loans.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Charles is a little reticent on the details

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Speaker 1: in light of fierce competition, and the program is not

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Speaker 1: going as quickly as Scena would like. You know, licenses

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Speaker 1: are taking longer than expected to get but there's a

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Speaker 1: separate subsidiary company dedicated to making it work. David. That's

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Speaker 1: also a space in which scene as competing with multibillion

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Speaker 1: dollar companies like ten Cent and Financial Right. That's true,

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00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: but I will say Charles has heard naysayers before. For

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00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: now there's a mix of quiet satisfaction and also excitement

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Speaker 1: at the company. It's a moment to breathe. As we

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Speaker 1: finished up our time together with a restaurant staff packing up,

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Speaker 1: I asked him if he felt vindicated, No question about that,

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Speaker 1: or your very delighted. And I think is somewhere fulfill

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Speaker 1: in terse our success, and then I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: and then no question, it's a it's a demonstration of ability, achievement, vision, everything.

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Speaker 1: And that's it for this week's DECRYPTO. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to hear what you thought of this episode.

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00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: It's a report a voice message and send it to

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00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at

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00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: at David Randling and I'm at Bradstone. If you haven't already,

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00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: please subscribe to our show on iTunes or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: rating in a review. It really helps more listeners find

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00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: the show. This episode was produced by Pierre Gadkari, Liz Smith,

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00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: and Magnus Hendrickson. A big thank you, guys, to Taylor

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00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: Hole and Nico Grant they work on the story, and

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00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: to Jeff Muscus who edited my article in Bloomberg Business

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00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: Week about the same issue. Alec McCay is the head

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00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts and we will see you next week.

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,480
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