1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Cool Media.

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People. Did cool stuff? Your

3
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,400
Speaker 2: weekly reminder that I have a podcast, You're twice weekly

4
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 2: reminder that I have a podcast. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

5
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 2: and I have a show, and it's about people who

6
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,159
Speaker 2: do good things from my perspective, and you should just

7
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,439
Speaker 2: all agree with my perspective. That's the whole point of

8
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:20,920
Speaker 2: the show.

9
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 3: That's why you're here.

10
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 1: One of your best intros.

11
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 2: First, thank you, thank you. And someone who doesn't have

12
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 2: to agree with my position, but so far we seem

13
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,559
Speaker 2: to be on a similar page is my guest Molly.

14
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,800
Speaker 3: Conger, Hi, Hey, glad to be back.

15
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,239
Speaker 2: And someone who is also on the call and is

16
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 2: my friend is my producer, Sophie Hi.

17
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:44,599
Speaker 1: Hi.

18
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 3: Sophie Hi not.

19
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 2: On the call, but listening before you, dear listener, is

20
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 2: our audio engineer Eva hi Eva.

21
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, she gets the first listen. What a treat,

22
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 3: I know, I know, that's first for it. Yeah, that's

23
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 3: uncut file is full of burps.

24
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 2: Coughs, Yeah, actionable crimes.

25
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 3: I didn't hear anything like that.

26
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,399
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. And our theme

27
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 2: music was written for us by unwoman and not listening

28
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 2: to her music would be a crime.

29
00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: That's true. I think it's a federal felony.

30
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so be a rebel and don't listen it.

31
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 3: No wait, oh no, I backed us into a corner.

32
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: Oh no.

33
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,120
Speaker 2: Anyway, This is part two of a two parter about

34
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 2: the Black Bloc, a controversial and interesting tactic that has

35
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 2: existed since at least the very early eighties that is

36
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 2: worth paying attention to and worth understanding. And you know,

37
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:43,520
Speaker 2: I actually need the history in order to do that.

38
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 2: But I find it neat and you probably do too,

39
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 2: or you wouldn't be listening to history podcast.

40
00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 3: I'm learning a lot.

41
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if people don't know Mally conger Is, they'd

42
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 2: be very confusing, because then you're listening to part two

43
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 2: without part one. But Molly has a podcast called Weird

44
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,000
Speaker 2: Little Guys.

45
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 3: It's the opposite of this show, and it would make

46
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,200
Speaker 3: me so happy if you would listen to it, or

47
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 3: at least download it on multiple apps.

48
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no reason not to. So the Black block tactic,

49
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 2: we talked about how it expressed itself in Germany before

50
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 2: there was an ultra globalization movement. The tactic looks different

51
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 2: in different places at different times. The Dutch squatters of

52
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,960
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties. They were like they we're not fucking

53
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 2: my ski masks. That's too much for us. They formed

54
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 2: the Black Helmet Brigade and showed up to every March.

55
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,400
Speaker 2: For a while, Dutch squatters were pretty limited in how

56
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 2: they'd fight cops. They were like pretty like not quite

57
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,639
Speaker 2: at the German level of intensity or whatever. And then

58
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,640
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five, a squadron named Hans Kock was

59
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,520
Speaker 2: mysteriously found dead in police custody, and this was widely

60
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,799
Speaker 2: believed to be police murder and at the very least

61
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 2: was neglect. They were like, ah, he was like drunk

62
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 2: or drugs or I don't know, he's just dead.

63
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 3: Having absolutely zero information about the situation, I'm comfortable saying

64
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 3: that the police murdered him.

65
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 2: The Oukham's raiser here, based on all of the times

66
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,839
Speaker 2: this happens all over the place, is that they murdered him,

67
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 2: or they murdered him through a neglect.

68
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 3: They're responsible for his death. And I'm very comfortable with that. Yeah,

69
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 3: with saying that, not with that it happened. To hate

70
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 3: that it happened.

71
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 2: Yes, So squatters were like, all right, you killed us.

72
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 2: Were mad and they're like, we're not bringing out guns

73
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 2: because you don't want to just stand in the street

74
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 2: and shoot at each other. That's just like never a

75
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,960
Speaker 2: good day, you know. But they sure started bringing out

76
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 2: molotov cocktails and things got spicier.

77
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,120
Speaker 3: Although okay, wait a second, hold on, So you said

78
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 3: they didn't want to bring guns, so they brought molotov cocktails.

79
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 3: If you were listening to this in the United States

80
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 3: of America and did the National Firearms Act, a molotov

81
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 3: cocktail is a destructive device that was charged the same

82
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 3: as having a gun, So legally, a molotov cocktail is

83
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 3: a gun.

84
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's also worse than a gun because there's no

85
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 2: legal way to have one.

86
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,560
Speaker 3: Right, So just think about that. Yeah, just know that

87
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 3: that it is a federal gun crime.

88
00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: Well.

89
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 2: See, this is important because the next pairgraph I have

90
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 2: is I'm really not trying to paint. This type of

91
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 2: escalation is inherently good or situation situationally appropriate in every environment.

92
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 2: While the use of molotovs is illegal probably everywhere, I

93
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 2: feel like most states probably have a don't throw molotovs

94
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 2: at cops rule somewhere on the books.

95
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,239
Speaker 3: You know, I imagine there's probably half a dozen different

96
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,679
Speaker 3: statutes you could charge that under.

97
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the level of punishment for the act of throwing

98
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 2: a molotov is not the same around the world. When

99
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 2: I first went to Amsterdam, I met someone who got

100
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 2: out of spending seven months in a low security prison

101
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 2: for throwing a molotov at cops.

102
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're doing a cost benefit math, everyone's

103
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 3: math is different.

104
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 2: Everyone's math will be different. And if you're in the States,

105
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 2: your math is real different.

106
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 3: There's a lot more stuff on one side of that

107
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 3: equal sign.

108
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Meanwhile, back at home, when I went to the

109
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 2: Netherlans for the first time, I met this person, a

110
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,719
Speaker 2: non white anarchist named Roblos Ricos, which is a very

111
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,640
Speaker 2: clever name, was spend seven years in prison for throwing

112
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 2: a rock at a cop. And so I'm like, yep,

113
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 2: because every now and then the European anarchists will be like, oh,

114
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 2: you American anarchists don't do anything.

115
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 3: I like, yeah, so, uh, it's different here.

116
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 2: Crime is different here. Yeah. And also like I don't

117
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,920
Speaker 2: know whatever, I'm not telling anyone what to do, but

118
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 2: I suspect that if people through all those that comps,

119
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 2: it would.

120
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,120
Speaker 3: What I mean, the Marines are already at play, okay, right.

121
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 2: So I'm literally saying nothing about this. I'm just saying

122
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 2: the crime is a crime, and there's a.

123
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 3: Different Streen saying this thing from the past was very

124
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 3: cool and me saying it would be so cool if

125
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 3: you did it now, right, just if the cops are listening.

126
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 2: It's different. It's a serious cost benefit analysis that anyone

127
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 2: would need to make, and it might not be the

128
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 2: most effective way to try and solve problems. Okay. So

129
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 2: that's probably the most caveati section of this. Score a coward, no, no, no.

130
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,359
Speaker 2: But it's like, okay, just simply be transparent about it.

131
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 2: It's it's not just to like I don't want to

132
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 2: get in trouble, right, But it's true, I don't want

133
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 2: to get in trouble. But it's also like I don't

134
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 2: want to get people in trouble. I do not want

135
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 2: to suggest to people what they should do. And that's

136
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 2: like almost why I was like, oh, I don't want

137
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 2: to talk about it because I don't want to say

138
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 2: anything about it, because I don't want to tell people

139
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 2: it's cool and good or that it's bad and counterproductive.

140
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 3: You don't want to be the Jodie Foster to somebody's

141
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 3: John Hinckley. I get it.

142
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes nice symbolism when you draw it in art.

143
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 2: We'll go with that.

144
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,080
Speaker 3: I have it on a shirt.

145
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So I've read in one place that the

146
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 2: anarchist punk scene of the eighties and nineties in the

147
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 2: US made occasional use of the black Block before it

148
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 2: broke on the world stage in nineteen ninety nine. I've

149
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 2: also read that the first one was nineteen ninety one,

150
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 2: so not the eighties. I don't know which it's true,

151
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 2: but at first when I can tell you about it's

152
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,480
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one. It was assembled during the anti Desert

153
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: Storm protests in DC in nineteen ninety one, and they

154
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,360
Speaker 2: were organized through the Love and Rage Anarchist Federation, which

155
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 2: put out a call for affinity groups, which we'll talk

156
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 2: more about later, but it's it's you and your friends

157
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 2: making your own decisions together, group to come in block.

158
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 2: This was presumably inspired by the Autonomen's attack on neoliberalism,

159
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,360
Speaker 2: because that block, when they got together to protest Desert Storm,

160
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 2: went to the World Bank Building and smashed all its windows.

161
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 3: Had it coming, I mean, what was the building wearing

162
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 3: I know, and it's like.

163
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 2: One of these things where you're like, oh, it wasn't

164
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 2: even related to the protests, and like no, but they

165
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 2: sure are stripping all of the resources out of the

166
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 2: developing world.

167
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,800
Speaker 3: Which I think actually does have a lot to do

168
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 3: with the causes of war.

169
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And just to get a taste of how

170
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 2: political discourse and terminology has and hasn't shifted, I read

171
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 2: a lot of communicats and stuff and discourse from the

172
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 2: early nineties about this I was saying, and the early aughts,

173
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 2: but I read an internal communicating not like an internal

174
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: like never published, you can find it online, but like

175
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 2: meant for discussion within people doing this. A communicate from

176
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two about a second block that had been

177
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 2: attempted on April fifth, either as it was a women's march,

178
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 2: but I don't know if it was an anti war

179
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 2: march or not, if it was just a women's march.

180
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 2: This block, one comments or felt, had not been as

181
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 2: much of a success. One reason behind it was the

182
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 2: lack of solidarity from male block organizers. There was also

183
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 2: women block organizers, and specifically the male block organizers didn't

184
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 2: have solidarity enough with the women organizers. Women in this

185
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 2: case spelled wimyn.

186
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah, that's so early nineties.

187
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 2: And the best part about it, from my point of view,

188
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 2: is that this word is both women and women because

189
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: it'll say A women came up and said the following

190
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 2: women and women are spelled the same es.

191
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 3: They're taking man and men out of it, right, So

192
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 3: it's like, but then there's no distinguishing between singular and plural.

193
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 2: Right besides the article that precedes it. And what's also funny.

194
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 2: I was like, I was telling this to my friend

195
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 2: while I was getting ready for this, and they were like, yeah,

196
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 2: why did we hate the O? Like, I get the

197
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 2: E in the A, but what's our problem with the O?

198
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 1: Wait?

199
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 3: What are they a place to O with?

200
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 2: I w I M y N.

201
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,559
Speaker 3: Why did they do that?

202
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

203
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 3: I guess if you're gonna make up a new word,

204
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 3: you might as well go all in.

205
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 2: But like, that's true, it looks kind of cool.

206
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 3: Okay, now I need to know.

207
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 2: I know, and someone listening knows right in.

208
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,239
Speaker 3: If you're familiar with the etymology of these feminist neologisms

209
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 3: from the early nineties.

210
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 2: Because there was another one that I ran across more,

211
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 2: which was w I M M I n oh. I

212
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 2: used to know more about the etymology of the words

213
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,199
Speaker 2: like a woman and man and stuff because man used

214
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,439
Speaker 2: to literally I think there was a different word. Where

215
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 2: was the word for man?

216
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 1: Right?

217
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 3: Like where wolf?

218
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly?

219
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 3: Or where geld which is the money you had to

220
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 3: pay to someone's family if he murdered them.

221
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 2: Oh shit, anyway, a more civilized time, So.

222
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 3: We'll find out more about this situation.

223
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, get to the bottom just another time. So this

224
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 2: protester was like talking about how it was and wasn't

225
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 2: organized effectively.

226
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,400
Speaker 3: And honestly the men not pulling their way same as

227
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 3: it ever was.

228
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 2: No, I know totally, and I like, I'm not even

229
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 2: trying to be like, oh they spelled words funny. I'm

230
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 2: like I'm trying to say, like everything's the same, right.

231
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 3: And it's just like such a time capsule of the

232
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 3: early nineties, Like if you see women spelled that way,

233
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 3: like you know where we are.

234
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,199
Speaker 2: Right totally, and like specifically they were like, hey, you

235
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 2: know there was a women's caucus that was you know,

236
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 2: part of this, and then like the organizing wasn't quite

237
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: structured enough in a way that it helped make the

238
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 2: men actually pay attention to the women's caucus.

239
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 3: Said, oh, the men weren't interested in the consensus based

240
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 3: decision making that involved the women. That's crazy, Margaret, that's

241
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,360
Speaker 3: never happened.

242
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 2: I know, but these are radicals, so I must have

243
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:47,160
Speaker 2: been misreading it.

244
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 3: I bet the men participated equally in making sure the

245
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,600
Speaker 3: logistics like bathrooms and food and water were handled as well.

246
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 2: Well. Those actually just take care of themselves.

247
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,319
Speaker 3: That's right, especially if you don't go to the women's

248
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 3: caucus where they meet about it. Nothing change diapers when

249
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 3: that zine got written and nothing has changed.

250
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 2: Nope, nope. So they talk about the structure in this.

251
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 2: It's not just a like complaining about the following. They

252
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 2: talk about the structure. Block of any size is built

253
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 2: from affinity groups. An affinity group is basically a very

254
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,160
Speaker 2: small organizing body, one that might easily be understood as

255
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,560
Speaker 2: you and your few friends who make decisions together. Affinity

256
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 2: groups generally operate on consensus rather than voting what to do.

257
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 2: The group does what everyone in the group agrees they

258
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 2: want to do together, which makes a lot of sense,

259
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,040
Speaker 2: like for crime, right, if you're four or five friends.

260
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 3: This sounds like a conspiracy.

261
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if you're hanging out with your friends, you

262
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,199
Speaker 2: all have to eat, and you're like, what do you

263
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 2: want to do? You want to go to the beach

264
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 2: or do you want to go set that building on fire?

265
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 2: You can't vote that one, right, everyone has to be

266
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 2: down for the crime.

267
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 3: If it's like, you know, four to one, we have

268
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:58,960
Speaker 3: a majority, we're going to do the crime. The guy

269
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,439
Speaker 3: who wanted to go to the beach, each.

270
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 2: Like should probably be able to leave and go back.

271
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 3: You should leave.

272
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. This is not a democracy, Yeah, exactly, it's a consensus.

273
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 2: It's a we all want to agree to do this

274
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,680
Speaker 2: or not. And so that's like how you build a

275
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 2: larger group that is made up of people operating on consensus,

276
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 2: but not consensus of the larger group necessarily, but the

277
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 2: individuals involved are organized into smaller groups. And also makes

278
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 2: it really funny when they're like, who's the leader of

279
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 2: this and you're like, you fucking morons. Is this your

280
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 2: first day at work?

281
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,720
Speaker 3: Do you charge of Antifa?

282
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So you have three to fifteen people or

283
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 2: so who agree to go to a demonstration, to have

284
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 2: each other's backs, to go where the others go and

285
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 2: to not get broken up. These affinity groups then coordinate

286
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,680
Speaker 2: with the other affinity groups on the street, and clearly

287
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 2: by the fact that they caucuses and stuff. They also

288
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 2: sometimes will have like representatives from affinity groups come and

289
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,320
Speaker 2: talk about what they might want to do, which really

290
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,199
Speaker 2: does sound like conspiracy. I actually don't think that that's

291
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 2: the way these are organized anymore. Like, really and genuinely

292
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 2: I don't think that this is time capsule shit.

293
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 3: I was just saying, this is this is a relic

294
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 3: of things past. I mean, I've heard of things like this,

295
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:11,000
Speaker 3: but like in my understanding of this level of organization,

296
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 3: those group representatives aren't coming together to then form consensus.

297
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,439
Speaker 3: They're just like letting y'all know, this is our hardline.

298
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, this is like kind of direction we're thinking

299
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 2: about taking things. Where's everyone else feeling? Yeah, And one

300
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 2: demonstration with a black bloc, the nineteen ninety nine Carnival

301
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 2: against Capital in London, nine thousand masks were distributed ahead

302
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,320
Speaker 2: of time. That's some infrastructure and that had a theme,

303
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 2: and the masks had printed inside each one a message,

304
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 2: and that message quote those in authority fear the mask

305
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 2: for their power partly resides in identifying, stamping, and cataloging,

306
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 2: in knowing who you are. Our masks are not to

307
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,440
Speaker 2: conceal our identity, but to reveal it. Today we shall

308
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,720
Speaker 2: give this resistance a face. For by putting on our masks,

309
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 2: we reveal our unity, and by raising our voices in

310
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 2: the streets together we speak our anger at the facelessness

311
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:07,679
Speaker 2: of power.

312
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,400
Speaker 3: That's a long message to be on the inside of

313
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 3: the masks.

314
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 2: There's also multiple ellipses, and the version I found I

315
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:14,680
Speaker 2: suspect it was longer.

316
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 3: How was this like a piece of paper tucked inside?

317
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 3: Was it like sewn in? I need the logistics here,

318
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 3: Like what was the manufacturing process for nine thousand masks

319
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 3: with a whole paragraphic.

320
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 2: The way it was described it was like printed inside.

321
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, was it like are they printing with like

322
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 2: a therma print where you can print.

323
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 3: On a tag?

324
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking like almost equivalent silkscreen, you know,

325
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 2: like a way to print onto fabric. It could have

326
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 2: been as.

327
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 3: Somebody would have to be like manually turning these inside

328
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 3: out to get the message, like this is a process. Yes,

329
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 3: I've never met an anarchist who could have pulled this off.

330
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.

331
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 2: Late nineties built different into weird projects.

332
00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 4: Magpie just SAIDU them kids, No, at least a dozen

333
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 4: people had to have the same idea that they remained

334
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 4: committed to without disagreeing for like several weeks.

335
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 2: That's true. I will say one. I've been to a

336
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 2: demonstration where people took their school's resources to make thermoplastic

337
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 2: clear riot shields, to make hundreds of them by using

338
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 2: like industrial manufacturing processes. And there's also just the fact

339
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 2: that like on some level, like some people are actually

340
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 2: just like working class at work at factories and shit, you.

341
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 3: Know that's true. But like usually when you work at

342
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 3: a factory, you don't have access to just like using

343
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:36,480
Speaker 3: the factory.

344
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 2: That's true.

345
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm necessarily enjoying all the side comments.

346
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,160
Speaker 3: I need to see a picture of this. Is there a.

347
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 2: Picture I not that I have found?

348
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 3: There might be one, please, if you are a sixty

349
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 3: year old punk show it to me, please.

350
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 2: I also think the Okham's raiser here is even though

351
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 2: it says printed on the inside, it might be that

352
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 2: there is a piece of paper inside.

353
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 3: Right, there was like a little hand bill that was

354
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 3: handed to everyone as well.

355
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 2: That's that is the most likely situation.

356
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 3: That's still very impressive that they were able to do this.

357
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 3: I'm still very impressed, but I have questions.

358
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough, and also to walk back my kids

359
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 2: these days, the way that we're built different now is

360
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 2: substantially more confrontational and interesting to me. The twenty twenty

361
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: uprising was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in

362
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 2: my life.

363
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 3: I don't want the anarchist to think I'm making fun

364
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 3: of them. I am making you can make fun of

365
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 3: Them's fine, We're having a good time, though it is

366
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 3: out of love. Like I said, Yeah, oh.

367
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 2: No, I'm just afraid of being like the old grouchy person.

368
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 2: You were better in the anti globalization eraic we were.

369
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 3: It's different. Things are just different now.

370
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And do you know what, I don't have a

371
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 2: transition for it ads.

372
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 3: I hope that this ad is for some kind of

373
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 3: home screen printing setup where I could make nine thousand

374
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 3: masks with a weird poem inside.

375
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, what poem did you picked?

376
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 1: Well?

377
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 3: I don't know. That had a sort of a poem

378
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 3: energy to it that like the message, the little sort

379
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 3: of beef vendetas sort of situation.

380
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 2: It does have a very vief for Vendeva, although before

381
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 2: the movie came out, I would do with the and

382
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,159
Speaker 2: or speech of soger Era being like, we are the

383
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 2: thing that explodes when there's too much friction in the air.

384
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,960
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. Yeah, I hope it's an advertisment for something

385
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 3: I can use to make nine thousand masks.

386
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's that ad and rebec. I'm actually particularly

387
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: excited about the way that you can use someone gambling

388
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,840
Speaker 2: to print onto masks.

389
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 1: Mine would be from this pub that I just googled

390
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: that is called.

391
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 2: I Like Dogs.

392
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 1: I like dogs, big dogs, little dogs, old dogs, puppy dogs,

393
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 1: a dog that is barking over the hill, a dog

394
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 1: that is dreaming very still, a dog that is running

395
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 1: whenever he will.

396
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:46,680
Speaker 3: I like dogs.

397
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 1: And it's by a person called Margaret wise Brown, who

398
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 1: I have no idea who they are and if they're

399
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: good or not.

400
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 3: Who Margaret wise Brown is?

401
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 1: No am I supposed to so be am. I supposed

402
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 1: to like good?

403
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 3: Naight, move.

404
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 1: That makes sense, you know, I do know how much

405
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,160
Speaker 1: person is. You're right, I'm not good at remembering names

406
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 1: unless it's basketball players.

407
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 3: I don't know if she hooped.

408
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the poem about it would be pretty cool.

409
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 1: I liked that her name was Margaret and the poem

410
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: was about dogs.

411
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

412
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 1: Also, anybody who has a dog that dreams still not mine?

413
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 2: Oh my dog dream my dog.

414
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 3: Dreams not still. I'm sorry. It's big red bar not

415
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 3: little Red Bar. What am I fucking thinking?

416
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesus, fake fan, Yeah I know I got fully shamed.

417
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: You're out here not knowing your facts.

418
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 3: Okay.

419
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

420
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 3: When I was five, me and my sister we got

421
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,360
Speaker 3: cats for Christmas with the shelter, and so I got

422
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 3: to name my own cat. I'm five years old, Like,

423
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 3: what am gonna name this cat? And I decided to

424
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,119
Speaker 3: name her after my favorite page from my favorite book

425
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: from when I was little. You know, I was. I

426
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 3: was five years old. I was a big girl. I

427
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 3: didn't love good Night Mood. I was too big for that,

428
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 3: but it was my favorite book when I was little.

429
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 3: So I named my cat good Night Kittens, like the

430
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 3: entire phrase good night kittens. That's pretty good from good

431
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 3: Night Moon, because good night kittens, good night mittens, you know,

432
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 3: good night bull of mush et cetera. So for fifteen years,

433
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 3: we just had a full grown cat whose name was

434
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 3: kittens plural. So much. What do we where? Where the

435
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 3: World Trade Organization?

436
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about next yeah oh hell yeah yeah.

437
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:26,719
Speaker 2: Well then we're not going to do the deep dive

438
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,879
Speaker 2: on it, because that's a future series of episodes.

439
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 3: Were going to Seattle, Baby.

440
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 1: This person is like a good person. Will somebody message

441
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,360
Speaker 1: me and let me know, because I've seen fabulous pictures

442
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: of her with a dog, and I would like to

443
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 1: know if this is a person.

444
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 3: I should like?

445
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 2: Is this the poet?

446
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: Yes? I would like to know if this is a

447
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: person I should like or if this is a problematic

448
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 1: person which I should hate. And I refuse to do

449
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: my own research because I'm really, really, really tired.

450
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: I'll just do an episode on it. So November nineteen

451
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 2: ninety nine, the Black Block hit the mainstream in a

452
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 2: way that it never had in the US and probably

453
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 2: hadn't anywhere in the world, even though as substantially smaller

454
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 2: Black Blocks than the ones in Europe, because it participated

455
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: in dramatic rioting against the World Trade Organization in Seattle,

456
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:13,959
Speaker 2: the famed Battle of Seattle. And We're going to talk

457
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 2: about the actual alter globalization protests soon, So I'm not

458
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 2: going to give a blow by blow of the Battle Seattle.

459
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: But the core of why the Seattle protests against the

460
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: World Trade Organization, another one of these neoliberal organizations. The

461
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 2: reason these protests were so effective they successfully shut down

462
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 2: the meeting of the World Trade Organization was not because

463
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 2: a few hundred people wearing all black broke a bunch

464
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 2: of Starbucks windows, but that a coalition of environmentalists and

465
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 2: labor progressive and radical like used from the bottom and

466
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 2: the left tactics and organization to borrow a phrase from

467
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: the Bapatistas, this idea from the bottom and the left,

468
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 2: it means like the bottom a little bit class wise,

469
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 2: but it means like organizing from the bottom up instead

470
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: of from the top down. They coordinated mass direct action

471
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 2: to shut down downtown Seattle and shut down these protests.

472
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 2: It was a movement of movements, and it brought together

473
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,959
Speaker 2: all sorts of different people to fight alongside one another.

474
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 2: And if you're thinking, Molly, I know Sophie's thinking this.

475
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 2: That feels like when the free peoples of Middle Earth

476
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 2: banded together at the end of the Third Age in

477
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: the Battle of the Ring to defeat Saron.

478
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was like.

479
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 3: Oh, I was just thinking that like, to be honest,

480
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 3: one of the only things I know about the nineteen

481
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: ninety nine Seattle World Trade Organization protests. So what I'm

482
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 3: writing about a we're little guy. I write like a

483
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 3: full timeline of his life, like every djil I can

484
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 3: find about, just like I don't even use ninety percent

485
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 3: of it, but I make this like full robust timeline

486
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: of a person's life. So the only thing I know

487
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 3: about the ninety ninety nine Yettle World Trade Organization protest

488
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 3: is that a guy who was convicted of a federal

489
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 3: crime for lying on his background check form when he

490
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 3: joined the military. His parents met there because his mom

491
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 3: was making soup. She was like a food not bombs girl.

492
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: Oh that's so heartbreaking, I know.

493
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 3: And his parents met there and then he was conceived

494
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 3: shortly thereafter, and he is a Nazi. Oh my god,

495
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 3: we're not our parents, you know.

496
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: No apple was caught by the wind and taken to

497
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: the Nazi grove, fell far from the tree. That's so sad,

498
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: I know. I mean. Also, people who's George Orwalls's great

499
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: piece on nationalism where he, like everyone, redefines words whenever

500
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: he feels like it, and he talks about it as

501
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 2: like an allegiance to the idea of being very about something,

502
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: and he uses it to talk about how many leftists

503
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 2: became Nazis, because so many leftists became Nazis.

504
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you see a guy and you think, oh,

505
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: one of these days we're going to be on opposite

506
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 3: sides of the line, aren't we.

507
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, during these protests, before they fucked and made Nazis,

508
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: some of the anarchists, not all the anarchists, got together

509
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: to form a black bloc to attack symbols of neoliberalism

510
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 2: and capitalism, like the aforementioned Starbucks windows sort of the

511
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: most famous part of this, but.

512
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 3: I forgot Starbucks was that old Starbucks?

513
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh breaking Starbucks windows was like

514
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 2: that was like the thing. There's a against me song

515
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: about throwing bricks through Starbucks windows that's about Seattle.

516
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: Because it started in Seattle. Yeah, which you can't go

517
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: into Seattle without somebody telling you that.

518
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeaeah. Totally. And these protests. The destructive part of the protests,

519
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 2: which is a smaller portion of it but got a

520
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: lot of the media attention. It directly and materially contributed

521
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: to the escalation of the conflict, which was likely necessary

522
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 2: for the tactical victory of shutting down the protests, is

523
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 2: my argument. If things hadn't gotten spicy, they probably would

524
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: not have caused enough chaos to stop the meeting from

525
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: being able to happen. It was also pretty much the

526
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 2: reason why the press was unable to downplay the demonstrations

527
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: like they've been doing to every demonstration they could find

528
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 2: for so long, and the reason that these protests got

529
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 2: so much press us, almost all of which was negative.

530
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: All press is good press, maybe hard to say. And

531
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: it also sparked a debate that goes on in radical

532
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: movements to this day about the appropriateness of black block

533
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 2: and the appropriateness of property destruction of demonstrations. The black

534
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: block makes for a powerful media image, one that is

535
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: regularly villainized by both the press and by some advocates

536
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: for strict nonviolence policies. This powerful image is a double

537
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: edged sword. Protests that would have scarcely made the news

538
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: at all get a ton more attention when things are

539
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: on fire or broken. Militant action is always polarizing, and

540
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 2: maybe it always will be, but there are people who

541
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: are turned off by this. It is worth remembering that

542
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, when someone burned down the third Police

543
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: Precinct in Minneapolis in response to the police murder of

544
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: George Floyd, a Monmouth University survey revealed that fifty four

545
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: percent of a Americans supported the arson of the police station,

546
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: which means burn the fucking cop shops down. Hold higher

547
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: than either presidential candidate at that time.

548
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: And don't let Atlantic magazine tell you fucking otherwise, I.

549
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: Know because this one the source for that in this

550
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: is Newsweek. That's like, that's a conservative publication. Yeah, direct action,

551
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: including militant direct action, is actually apparently less polarizing than

552
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: electoral candidates are. That's my spiciest take of the day.

553
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: You know, you may not, I don't know, you may

554
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: not like the look of a broken window, but do

555
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: you like it more or less than you like looking

556
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 3: at a four year old child crying as she's being

557
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: snatched from the arms of her mother.

558
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 2: Right, And you could say to yourself, why are they related?

559
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: And then you have to say, well, even if they aren't,

560
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: is one person against that and another person doing it?

561
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: You know, is one person trying to stop that by

562
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: a means that they consider appropriate In which case, your

563
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: problem is not ethical, it's strategic, and people get really

564
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: hung up on that difference and think that strategy is

565
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: ethics and it's not. Got wild eyed and glad there's

566
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: an audio medium. But you're right, Thank you, thank you.

567
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: You know, I personally, I'm not going to break a window,

568
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: but I'm not going to take a picture of it

569
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: when someone else does.

570
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same people who are doing that are often

571
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: the same people who will physically stop the police from

572
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: beating people and grabbing people who are trying to do things.

573
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you to break the window.

574
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you to not break the window.

575
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: But if you break the window and you get arrested,

576
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 3: I will wait in the parking lot for you to

577
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: get out.

578
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it. Yeah, totally, Because.

579
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: When we do jail support, it doesn't matter what you did.

580
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: We're just waiting here in the parking lot for you

581
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: to get out. So this is not an endorsement of

582
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: the window breaking. I'm just saying we'll be out here

583
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: with snacks.

584
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was people waiting outside with snacks after I

585
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 2: got out of jail. When the night you got arrested,

586
00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: wearing all black.

587
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we do.

588
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

589
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: The WTO protests got negative press attention, but this didn't

590
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: stop any activists, partly because I think this is an

591
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: interesting tangent about media. The argument during the altra globalization

592
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: era was that mainstream media is structurally part of the

593
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: state apparatus of control, that, to paraphrase Nom Chomsky, the

594
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: state isn't powerful enough to control everyone with an iron fist,

595
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: like we're seeing this now right, like we're actually literally

596
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 2: more of us than there are of them, because the

597
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: run of the mil conservative voter is not willing to

598
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: get out on the streets to protect ice.

599
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: Much getting up off your gouge to protect the police.

600
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: I know.

601
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: Because the police aren't powerful enough to control everything with

602
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: an iron fist, they use media apparatus to manufacture the

603
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: consent of the governed. This is the argument, and it's

604
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to explore that tangent more depth one day.

605
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: But the anarchist Noam Chomsky saying this about the manufacturing

606
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: of consent in nineteen eighty nine was part of what

607
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 2: led the alter globalization movement to develop its own media infrastructure,

608
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: much of which was built around a brand new idea,

609
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: a decentralized way for people to post news, indie media,

610
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: which more or less invented citizen journalism in the Internet era,

611
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: and as a direct precursor to Twitter, which is of

612
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: course not specifically a leftist project, but it was at

613
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: least interesting until that was captured by fascism and rebranded

614
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: as x which is to say, capitalism could fucking recuperate anything,

615
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: and it's a nightmare. But I find that through line

616
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,239
Speaker 2: very interesting that radicals critical of the coverage of these

617
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: sorts of things invented a worldwide infrastructure of direct communication.

618
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: Sometimes. You know, in my research into sort of fascist

619
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: movements of this era of the you know, the seventies, eighties,

620
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: and nineties, come across old primary source leftist and anarchist media, right,

621
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: so like old Marxist newspapers, old anarchist zines and sort

622
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: of capturing these moments in time. And it is striking

623
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: how different the coverage is, because I mean some of

624
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: them are fairly professionalized. These like little newspapers that came

625
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: out quarterly or this or that or the other. It's

626
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: real journalism, it's a real newspaper. But it's so different.

627
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 3: You can read coverage of the same protests from an

628
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: old New York Times archive and then from the anarchist newspaper,

629
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: and it is it's a different story.

630
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: It's a different reality that people are creating, and both

631
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: are biased.

632
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: And these histories get buried and lost.

633
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's yeah, I mean that's like literally what

634
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: keeps me going with doing the show constantly. That and

635
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: my desire to feed my dog on a regular basis.

636
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: See those histories alive. And yeah, sure of course they're

637
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: all both biased. The Anarchist newspaper and the New York

638
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: Times are both if you read both, and that's a

639
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: lot of what I do, right as you sort of

640
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: read these primary sources that were written by nazis, right,

641
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: So you can't take them at face value. You're not reading, yeah,

642
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 3: for truth, but you can piece together what the truth

643
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: probably is. Yeah, And I have found that the leftist

644
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: and anarchist newspapers are closer to it.

645
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: I have largely found that to be the case. It's

646
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: also it's more transparent when they go into their like

647
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: now I'm soap boxing mode, which any listener of this

648
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: show is fully aware of. I try to get all

649
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: the facts right, and I digress and my opinions are

650
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: very clear, you know. But there's an interesting thing. I

651
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: think the idea that mainstream media is inherently pro status

652
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: quo is an out moded idea. And maybe I say

653
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: this because I produce a podcast for iHeartMedia.

654
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: I try not to think about it, like.

655
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: I was, like, huh, sounds sur reilier.

656
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: To be fair, I've never even met anyone who works

657
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: for iHeartMedia except for Sophie, and I don't clam them.

658
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is I am a freelance contractor

659
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: and they put ads into the content that I make,

660
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: and they don't control that content, and so I say

661
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: what I believe, and they can make money from me doing.

662
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: That, and I bank on the fact that they just

663
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: don't listen to my show.

664
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty much what to count on.

665
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, all the time.

666
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm like the less people that know we exist but

667
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: keep signing our checks like the.

668
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 3: Better Yeah, yeah, listening to our shows now.

669
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: But I think that a thing that has happened, and

670
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: I'm using us and a lot of my friends who

671
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: work in media as an example, and also like shows

672
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: like and Or where there's a generation of people that

673
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: are genuinely anti capitalists largely anti authoritarian that has become

674
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: media professionals. The fact that some of the best labor

675
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: reporting consistently is from teen Vogue, right, and often they're

676
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: doing it actually with more nuanced than some of old papers,

677
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: like old leftist papers and stuff. Anyway, this is like

678
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: a thing that I think about a lot, is the

679
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: way that our relationship to media has shifted dramatically over

680
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: the decades.

681
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: And I think it's something really importantly going back to

682
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: what you're talking abot with the manufacturing consent, it is

683
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: important to interrogate the viewpoint of the author of the

684
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: publication totally, because, like you said, burning the precinct pulled

685
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: higher than the president, and that's not what the newspaper

686
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: tells me.

687
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because you're like, oh, we want to show

688
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: both sides, so you like, well, they don't show the

689
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 2: pro burning side usually anyway, Oh no, it's ads.

690
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: Oh god, and we're back.

691
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: So media presented a certain image of the black block

692
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: and it was not a sympathetic one. Black blockers only

693
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: care about destruction and have nothing to offer the movement.

694
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: It's just purely negative and they are the ones responsible

695
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: for the violence of the police. Which is always an

696
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: amazing thing. Like the headlines are like the violence started

697
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: after someone throw a water bottle.

698
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: And you're like, seems like an unnecessary escalation.

699
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: Yes, the violence was when people started hurting people, which

700
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: was the police hurting or like the violence started when

701
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: people yelled at the police. You're like, no, it was again,

702
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: it was when they hit people with sticks. And yeah,

703
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: somehow police hospitalizing people's responsibility of an angry kid wearing

704
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: all black. I think The Onion nailed this the other

705
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: day with the headline protesters urge not to give Trump

706
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: administration pretext for what it already doing a.

707
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: Right because like, oh, don't give them any excuse. They

708
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: don't need an excuse. Plus, it's already happening. It's already happening.

709
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: That's great, well done, the Onion.

710
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: I would never be able to write Onion headlines because

711
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: I don't grammatically understand why headlines will say things like

712
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: for what it already doing instead of for what it

713
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: is already doing. I don't understand it. I think it's

714
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: a way that headlines are written.

715
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: It is a way that headlines are written.

716
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: And I think that the Onion is always satirizing headlines

717
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 2: so they're going to like play into sort of an

718
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: old timing journalisty.

719
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: Journalism school.

720
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I'm totally professional. Oh wait, I'm not

721
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: even pretending to be a professional tru I do pop history.

722
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: So now I've been pepper sprayed by enough cops in

723
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: enough situations to know it was always their fault.

724
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah, even when cops get pepper sprayed, it's

725
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: their fault because it's them doing it to them.

726
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 3: They love doing it to themselves.

727
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: I know.

728
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: Within the movement of movements, opinions about block were a

729
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: lot more nuanced, and you saw a rise of what

730
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: I might call the heroic black block, where black blockers

731
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: work in solidarity with people with other tactics and outfits.

732
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: And actually, you mean that's kind of how it started, right,

733
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: It's like as a spiky exterior to a larger march.

734
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: But people realized, if you're aware of how your presence

735
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: attracts police attention, and if you ever want police attention

736
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: out of protest where black block, the police will pay

737
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: attention to you. And you're good at staying mobile in

738
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 2: this situation, right, And so rather than smashing bank windows

739
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 2: near people doing nonviolent civil disobedience in the middle of

740
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: an intersection, like people like locking the lock boxes in

741
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: the middle of intersection. You don't run up and break

742
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: the window right near them and then leave. That's a move.

743
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: You just go somewhere else.

744
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: Right, And then you're actually helping because the police are

745
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: now drawn away from your allies, and you're much better

746
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: equipped to fight back and to get away then other

747
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: people might be. And because of that, and because of

748
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 2: interpersonal relationships and years of intense organizing, and we talked

749
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: about this as the opening bonds of solidarity arose between

750
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: the block and other groups. And during the entire ultra

751
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: globalization movement, the Black Bloc continued, and so did the discourse.

752
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: The discourse was actually fairly nuanced. It wasn't like is

753
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: everyone doing this tactic evil or good? Right? It was like, hey,

754
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: in what context is this appropriate? How much are we

755
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 2: simply acting out our pre assigned role within the same

756
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: story over and over again? Right? You kind of like

757
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: fetishize a tactic and then you're like, we're just going

758
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 2: to do it, and you're like, is it the right one?

759
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: Do the cops know you're going to do it? Because

760
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: if you if the cops know you're going to do it.

761
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: It's not what we should do like overall, you know.

762
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: Well, and the president said that all those people have

763
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: to go to prison.

764
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah wow. An anonymous zone from the time from

765
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: two thousand and two, I think had a really good title,

766
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: if you ask me, the black Block a disposable tactic.

767
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: I like that, and that piece describes the state's way

768
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: of responding to anarchists and the block during the ultra

769
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: globalization movement and talks at length about how the state's

770
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: strategy is to criminalize all the militant protesters as terrorists.

771
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: It's the same shit, right like Trump is different. But

772
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: Bush did this too, right, and especially in the wake

773
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: of nine to eleven. Everyone's a terrorist now and specifically,

774
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: the state strategy at the time, at least according to

775
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: this analysis and I fully agree with it, was to

776
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: try to convince the rest of the movement to distance

777
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: themselves from the block Banko and people started moving away

778
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: from black block tactics were rather diversifying into different types

779
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: of blocks within radical mass mobilizations. We'll talk more about

780
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: this one seeing because I really like it, and so

781
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: I have to throw it in. Have you ever heard

782
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: of the padded block. No, no, it comes from these

783
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: like Italian tute Blanche White Overall's movement, I think is

784
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: how you say it, I'm cute.

785
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

786
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 2: Well they start off being like, we're gonna wear white

787
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: overalls to protests and if I get this history wrong, sorry,

788
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: later they will be the subjects of a thing. But

789
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: then they started wearing padding, and specifically they turned a

790
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: block style formation into a purely defensive thing where you

791
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 2: would be silly as hell covered in like pillows and

792
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: pool floaties and like helmets, and you would just be

793
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: like the Michelin man, like lumbering up to the cops,

794
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: and you'd have hundreds of people doing this and you

795
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: would literally just push the police out of the way.

796
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 3: I need to see this with my eyes.

797
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: This there is video of there's so much good riot

798
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: porn from this has mostly happened in Europe in like

799
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: ninety nine, well I guess mostly two thousand, two thousand

800
00:37:59,160 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: and one.

801
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 3: Looking this up immediately after we're done.

802
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, the padded block is fucking amazing. They'll hit

803
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: cops of pool noodles and shit.

804
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: An American cop would just shoot you if you hit

805
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 3: them with anything.

806
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: I know, it's like one of those things where was like,

807
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: there's that footage of some protesters recently, and I think

808
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 2: California where the cops are trying to evict I think

809
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: a Palestine occupation at a campus and someone is just

810
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: like bonks the cop with an empty five gallon water

811
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: drum and you can hear the bonk noise.

812
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah that was all. There was a music

813
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 3: video then somebody made a song.

814
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: I hope that person is free, is all I feel.

815
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,959
Speaker 3: But yeah, I just feel like I don't know, maybe

816
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: the European cop has a sense of humor but the

817
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 3: American cop does not.

818
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: I will say there's a moment of some European cops

819
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 2: being real and cool about some stuff.

820
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 3: I mean there's still cops.

821
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

822
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: Uh.

823
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: And the padded block is a great media image and

824
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: it can be just as radical, especially when your goal

825
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: is storm the hotel of world leaders. It's a fairly

826
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: effective way to move through a police line. It's not

827
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 2: good for causing havoc and rich shopping districts, but that's

828
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: that's not always the goal, right And to quote author

829
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: Mark Levine about this quote, simply put routinized violence against

830
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: property costs. The anti corporate globalization movement significant support in

831
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: the US and Europe, precisely because the vast majority of

832
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: people in these countries were not suffering enough under the

833
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: existing system to support the level of chaos and disruptions

834
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: such violence was intended to generate. And it's a mouthful,

835
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: but it's basically it's like, look, people's lives aren't hard

836
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: enough that like, most people aren't necessarily going to look

837
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 2: at a smashup shopping district and be like, hooray, tack capitalism.

838
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: Because they have the crumbs and they went.

839
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: Home, right, And I don't think that's a universally applicable thing.

840
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: I'm not just meaning as a condemnation of property destruction

841
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: in all contexts, but it was a way in which

842
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: people saw that that was happening within the movement and

843
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: started shifting.

844
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: What it's interesting to think about in the present moment,

845
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 3: right like, have things shifted enough where there is enough

846
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 3: visible suffering the balance has changed. I agree that people

847
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: are not going to look at that property damage the

848
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: same way they would have ten years ago.

849
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 2: Right Like, if you read anti capitalist stuff from the

850
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: late nineties, like Adbusters magazine, the problem that they present

851
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: that their reader might have is that they're bored, Like

852
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: Fight Club is a movie about being bored by capitalism

853
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: and problems dealing with homosexuality and pent up Maile Anger.

854
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: But people's problems isn't that they're bored anymore.

855
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 3: You know, the cost of food is getting out of control,

856
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: like there's going to be a breaking point.

857
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And not that everyone was having a good time

858
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: in the nineties, but it was a substantially more up

859
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: and coming time, and when you look at the larger

860
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: picture of the economy, it's just a very different time. Well,

861
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: an intense thing that happened in July two thousand and

862
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: one the Group of Eight, which is a neoliberal decision

863
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 2: making body of the leaders of the eight richest countries.

864
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: I think it's the eight richest countries plus Russia. I

865
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: don't remember off the top of my head. It was

866
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: like Russia, you have nukes, so you're like in, even

867
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: though you're not like next, you know, I think that's it.

868
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: I might be wrong whatever, I'm never going to find out.

869
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: I used to know all of this. I used to

870
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: write zines about it, like talk to people at demonstrations

871
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: about it. I just like don't remember all the Shelffs

872
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: on my head. In two thousand and one, the Group

873
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: of Eight, the G eight, was meeting in Genoa, Italy,

874
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: and the police shot and killed a twenty three year

875
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: old anarchist named Carlo Giuliani. Carlo at the time was

876
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: armed with a fire extinguisher when cops fired live rounds

877
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: at him and then ran him over. And his death

878
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: has been filmed and it was very impactful on the movement.

879
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: A few months later, planes hit the World Trade Center.

880
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if you knew that this happened.

881
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 3: Oh, tell me more about that.

882
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: What is that?

883
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I lived in New York City at

884
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: the time. I will absolutely remember it a scarred on

885
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: my brain.

886
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: Never forget all of us traumatized.

887
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, totally, except Garrison, who wasn't born.

888
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: Fuck so real.

889
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: The US mobilized for war, and it started rounding up

890
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: Muslim and without due process, and suddenly everyone was a terrorist. Supposedly,

891
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: at this point, the ultra globalization movement fell apart. That's

892
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: always the version of the story, including within the movement.

893
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 2: I joined the movement months later in February two thousand

894
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: and two at protests in Manhattan, and I did not

895
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: feel like I was joining a failing movement. I felt

896
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 2: more alive than I ever have in my life. By

897
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: that point, the movement did indeed still exist, and I

898
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: came up in the middle of the movement awash in

899
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: Zine's self critique about everything we did wrong. You know,

900
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: we were like, oh, our movement fell apart? Why And

901
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: it just turned into this like discourse. Hell, And what

902
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: I think we did wrong was assumed that winning is

903
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: a static thing. We accomplished an amazing amount of things.

904
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: We thought that smash neoliberalism was a like static thing,

905
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: like done, you beat the boss, The little cheering music happens,

906
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: and then it's never over. Yeah, it's never over, and

907
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: that's beautiful. The alter globalization movement ended eventually, and in

908
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 2: the US the anti war movement began, which imported tactics,

909
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: if not activists, directly from the previous movement. By two

910
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, a lot of the discourse around the

911
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: Black Bloc and diverse tactics within protest movements felt settled.

912
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 2: Because it didn't stay settled, but it should have been.

913
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: And everyone, this is my opinion. I'm now in a

914
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: soapbox because in two thousand and eight, when people agreed

915
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 2: to disrupt the Republican National Convention in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

916
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: They got together all these different movements. How are we

917
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: going to do this? We all have different ideas, abouw

918
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: we should do this? And it came up with a

919
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: four point program called the Saint Paul Principles. You heard these?

920
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: Oh we still use those?

921
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: Cool. The Saint Paul Principles are One, our solidarity will

922
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: be based on a respect for diversity of tactics and

923
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: the plans of other groups. Two, the actions and tactics

924
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: used will be organized to maintain in a separation of

925
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: time or space. Three, Any debates or criticism will stay

926
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 2: internal to the movement, avoiding any public or media denunciations

927
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: of fellow activists or events. Four. We oppose any state

928
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 2: repression of dissent, including surveillance, infiltration, disruption, and violence. We

929
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: agree not to assist law enforcement actions against activists and others.

930
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 3: Good rules, yeah, rules to live by.

931
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. People are going to do the shit in different ways.

932
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,479
Speaker 2: No one way is right. Make sure we don't step

933
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: on each other's toes directly, it's never going to be perfect.

934
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: And try to keep a united front against the enemy.

935
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: And the press alike, especially once we step on each

936
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: other's toes, which we will.

937
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 3: Like, whatever disagreements you have within the movement, it's not

938
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 3: worth getting the cops involved. Is not worth letting the

939
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: cops in.

940
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, because your problem is with other people who share

941
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: your goals and not your tactics, and so talk about

942
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: that amongst each other, not with people who have completely

943
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: different goals that are counter to yours.

944
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 3: Really, the state is not a mediator here. They just

945
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: want you both to die.

946
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

947
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: I do love that. You know, it's Saint Paul because

948
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: of like Saint Paul Minnesota. But it makes it sound

949
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 3: so religious. It gives it like a biblical haft. Oh, yeah,

950
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 3: this is the Bible.

951
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was reading this like I hate the Saint

952
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: Paul's Principle piece the other day and it was like,

953
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: Saint Paul, what is this Catholicism telling us what we

954
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 2: have to do? And I love they use anti authoritarianism

955
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: to justify authoritarianism, you know, because they're.

956
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 3: Like many such cases with an anarchists.

957
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this person wasn't an anarchist. Oh I think

958
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: this person was. I'm rudely assuming that this person was

959
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: a Marxist Leninist.

960
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 3: Okay, that's fair too. I'm just saying that there are

961
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: more authoritarians and a room full of anarchists.

962
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: It's true than you would want them to be.

963
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, than you would ever suspect.

964
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

965
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: Consensus based decision making means we're going to sit here

966
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: until you all agree with me.

967
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: Oh god, I am kind of glad that we learned

968
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: that not everything needs to be consensus decision making.

969
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 3: I'm talking a lot of shit for somebody who doesn't

970
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: leave her house, don't listen to me.

971
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 2: Oh that's the other thing that every now and then people

972
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: are like, come give talks about organizing. I'm like, yeah,

973
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a time machine back to what

974
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: I knew what was happening. I read history and talk

975
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: about pop history.

976
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: For my safety and the safety of others. I'm not

977
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 3: in those rooms. I haven't been in years.

978
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh real.

979
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: So right.

980
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: All Then, during a series of global uprisings started in

981
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: twenty eleven with Arab Spring, the Black Bloc found a

982
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: new and maybe more fertile ground, places where people had

983
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: been suffering enough with the existing system to be down

984
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: with a more destructive method of confronting that system and

985
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: you get a really major black bloc movement in Egypt.

986
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: And again, it was a way to have these huge,

987
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: spicy protests without turning to actual armed urban gorilla clandestinity.

988
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: The protests around Tarrear Square and Egypt made extensive use

989
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: of black block tactics, largely introduced through soccer hooliganism.

990
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: I mean they're already organized, you know, they have matching outfits.

991
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they like fighting, they love fighting. Yeah.

992
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: God, we were just those horrible videos coming out of

993
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: La of the police horses trampling people, right, Yeah, we're

994
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: looking at those, and my husband was reminding me of

995
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 3: the Interior Square. There was that moment where you can

996
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: see the idea occur to a man that you can

997
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: if you walk up from behind or the side, like

998
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 3: when the cavalry is in a dense crowd, you can

999
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 3: just pull him backwards off the horse and there's nothing

1000
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: you can fucking do about it.

1001
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: I just want to point out that Anderson fucking hated

1002
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: those police cop horse things.

1003
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: Like cavalry is frightening when it's facing you. Yeah, but

1004
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 3: you can pull him down.

1005
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1006
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: They used to just like prance around in the Hollywood,

1007
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: near where the old ieart office was, and when Anderson

1008
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: was out doing her concrete shit, which is what I

1009
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: used to call it. Sanderson's like I'll drop heat anywhere

1010
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and so we'd be doing the concrete shit dance. Sorry, Anderson,

1011
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm really like outing your life, really putting her own blasts,

1012
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: really put No, I'm proud of that. Okay, my dog

1013
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: could ship on concrete, thank you very much.

1014
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: My dog can not sh on concrete.

1015
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: My other dog absolutely not. She's she loves having her

1016
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: little on sweet bathroom at my house. Anyway, we would

1017
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: see those exact horse cops and Anderson would let them know,

1018
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: like you we include you an.

1019
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 3: A cab horsey horse behind this look. As a former

1020
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 3: horse girl, I'm looking at their form. They're not stable

1021
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 3: on those horses. They are at risks. Also a former

1022
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: horse girl, I have questions.

1023
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: This is great.

1024
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: The deep lore. So yeah, I love this.

1025
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: We did upset Anderson.

1026
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: She did leave the room when we started. Oh yeah,

1027
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 3: there's some incredible, incredible videos from Treer Square. Yeah, oh yeah,

1028
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: I know. You're just like interested in what you should

1029
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: do if there was mount to Cavalry.

1030
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, continue Magpipe please.

1031
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And and one of the things I

1032
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: really like, because I really like when everything is connected globally.

1033
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: And a lot of the Black Block activists in Egypt,

1034
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: or presumably their supporters as well, would change their Facebook

1035
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 2: pages to list their university background as u NAM, which

1036
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: is the National Autonomous University of Mexico. It's a way

1037
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: of saying we're related with the Zapatistas, and I think

1038
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: that's cool.

1039
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: That is cool.

1040
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: Black Block was also contentiously part of Occupy Wall Street

1041
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: and the broader occupy movements. Once again people presenting and

1042
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: almost amusing ignorance on the part of some of the critics,

1043
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: where they're like, where do these anarchists come? Ruin everything

1044
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 2: at Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Wall Street was built by

1045
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: alter globalization veterans, including the late anarchist author David Graber

1046
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 2: and many other people, not just anarchists, but very heavily,

1047
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: and soon those ideas generalize across the country and people

1048
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: would get involved without knowing.

1049
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 3: The orgas can you shull up late to the party,

1050
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 3: mad that the host is there?

1051
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. Movements come and go, but discourses forever,

1052
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 2: which is why I want to remember always the litany

1053
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: against discourse, which is me rewriting the Litany against fear,

1054
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: which is a piece by Frank Herbert. It's a way

1055
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: to remind yourself not to discourse. I must not discourse.

1056
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 2: Discourse is the mind killer. Discourse is the little death

1057
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 2: that brings total obliteration. I will face the discourse. I

1058
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 2: will permit it to pass over me and through me.

1059
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 2: And when it has gone past, I will turn the

1060
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: inner eye to see its path. Where the discourse has gone,

1061
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

1062
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 3: That's beautiful, Margaret.

1063
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Yeah, you just replaced the word fear, and

1064
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 2: that's the actual thing.

1065
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 3: I just mind my business. Yeah, I see someone I

1066
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: don't like it, a protest, I mind my business.

1067
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: Yep, that's not about me. Yeah. Yeah. I want to

1068
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: talk about this today because I don't want people to

1069
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: get caught while they're trying to stop fascism. And the

1070
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: black block is one way to avoid getting caught or

1071
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: things like it. And it is not just for people

1072
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: who want to commit crimes. It is very good for

1073
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: people who want to make sure that people who do

1074
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: commit crimes, rather that people who do physically interfere with

1075
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: the state apparatus, for example, don't get caught because you

1076
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: are part of a crowd that they can disappear into.

1077
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: You know, even if crime is just totally off the table,

1078
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 3: Like that level of anonymity is useful to you for

1079
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 3: a variety of reasons, state surveillance, arrest after the fact,

1080
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: just for having been there, being docks by right wing groups, Like,

1081
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of reasons why. Maybe you just want

1082
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 3: to be a little anonymous, Yeah, totally. And if somebody

1083
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 3: wants to break the window, it's not your fucking business.

1084
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not you.

1085
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 3: Oh and if you were the massed anarchist who grabbed

1086
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 3: me by the collar and pulled me back because I

1087
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 3: was looking down at my phone while walking and tweeting

1088
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 3: into a riot line, thank you.

1089
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 2: And So if you want to go to an anime

1090
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: convention dressed in the following style ways to do it,

1091
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: just real quick. This is not your actual guide, but

1092
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: I promised you some some fashions.

1093
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: It's just like a costplay.

1094
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you want a costplay in groups affinity groups.

1095
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: We discussed them earlier. You put on normal clothes that

1096
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: don't attract police attention, and then you put black block

1097
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: clothes on over that. As much as there's different ways

1098
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: of doing it, this is one way to do it,

1099
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 2: and you want that as uniform of your group at

1100
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: the anime convention. So avoid logos, patches or anything else

1101
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: identifiable unless everyone has the sailor moon. Don't put sailor

1102
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: moon on it. And be willing to get rid of

1103
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: this clothing, especially if something happens while you're out. And

1104
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: some people like raincoats because they're thin and light and

1105
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 2: easy to take on and off. You might want to

1106
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: put another layer on on top of this, which is

1107
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: your get there layer. A bandana mask is not adequate

1108
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 2: in the modern era. Do not look at old black

1109
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: blocks and think that is how to do it because

1110
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: they had different threat model around surveillance. A ski mask

1111
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: or a T shirt is a much better way at

1112
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 2: the anime convention to make sure that no one knows

1113
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: what you know that you're secretly. It's the way I

1114
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: go to avoid getting mobbed by crowds.

1115
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 3: And anime because you're so famous, yeah with.

1116
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 2: The anime fans. Tie a T shirt mask. The way

1117
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: that you do that is you hold the neck hole

1118
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 2: over your eyes and then you tie the sleeves around

1119
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: the back and people like to cover tattoos. Be friendly

1120
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: as hell with the other people at the convention who

1121
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: aren't in block. Your goal is to make their lives

1122
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: better and have a more enjoyable convention experience, and be brave.

1123
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: Courage is instead not the absence of fear, but the

1124
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 2: willingness to act despite it. And before you leave the convention,

1125
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 2: you d block where others can't see. This can be

1126
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 2: accomplished by bringing together a large group of people, especially

1127
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: with umbrellas to hide from overhead cameras. But also if

1128
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: you're able to scout the convention area ahead of time,

1129
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: you can figure out alleys and camera blind spots and

1130
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: such inside the convention center and ideally talk to people

1131
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 2: who have experience and go with experienced people. But if

1132
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: that's not possible, read about it. Crimeting dot com has

1133
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 2: a lot of different guides on this matter other places

1134
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: due to I'm sure and always remember this is not

1135
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: the best or only way to be militant or radical

1136
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 2: or whatever. This is one that I find the history

1137
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 2: fascinating of and wanted to present. It's just one way

1138
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 2: that you can help yourself and other people stay safe

1139
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 2: doing what you might want to do when you're getting

1140
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: those signatures, you know, you can go into line as

1141
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: many times as you want if you're in block, because

1142
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: they're going to be like I've never seen you before,

1143
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: and you're like, that's right, please sign a lot of

1144
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: better things for me, and then you can sell signed

1145
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: copies of the books. That's what I got. That's the

1146
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 2: history of the Black Blog.

1147
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 3: Make your own choices, mind your own business, and be brave.

1148
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: Those are some good maxims. Yeah, the Molly maxims. Well,

1149
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 2: if people can, well, you can do your own plug.

1150
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 2: I don't have to do your plug.

1151
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, yeah. Listen to my podcast We're Little Guys.

1152
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 3: It's about the opposite of this show, things that are bummers,

1153
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 3: bad people who did bad things. You can listen to

1154
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 3: it wherever you listen to podcasts. As a matter of fact,

1155
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 3: loads several podcasting applications on your phone and download it

1156
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 3: on all of them.

1157
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: What could go wrong? Literally, nothing, nothing will go wrong.

1158
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: If you do that, no more downloads, and Sophie will

1159
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 3: be proud of me.

1160
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: Always right, it's not downloads based downloads help.

1161
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: And if you like ad transitions but not ads, you

1162
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: can and you have an iPhone, you can subscribe to

1163
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: Cooler Zone Media and just give us money to do

1164
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: this directly instead of it going through ads instead. That's

1165
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: the thing you can do. You can also take care

1166
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: of your friends. Shit's hard.

1167
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 3: Yes, I would like to plug the idea of having

1168
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: solidarity with your friends and neighbors.

1169
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and remember that community and neighbors doesn't mean the

1170
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 2: people you like, like sometimes it's just literally the people

1171
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 2: who are there. Whether or not you like your neighbors,

1172
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: they should not be disappeared. And well, actually I have

1173
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 2: no problem with any neighbors who would be in that

1174
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: kind of throat, but like whatever, Like, it's not about

1175
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 2: like just your friends. It is about the people around

1176
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 2: you and the people who aren't around you what could

1177
00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: be around you. It's just take care of each other,

1178
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: all right. Hi, roond bye.

1179
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1180
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1181
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: visit our website Goolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1182
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1183
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: your podcasts.