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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephim Beast start changing with

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Jamie, Caitlyn, when you get knocked down, you have to

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Speaker 3: get back up again.

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Speaker 1: You're never gonna Spider Man down. I get knocked down.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're doing? I know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: but you set me up for it.

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Speaker 3: He he, No, and I'm glad you did that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Hello everyone. My name is Caitlin Dante.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and.

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Speaker 3: This is the Bechdel Cast, our show where we where

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Speaker 3: we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. We'll tell you

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Speaker 3: what that is in a moment. Today is a special

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Speaker 3: episode because we are releasing an episode that we recorded

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Speaker 3: for the Matreon. Yes, I think like four years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we and you in particular were very

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Speaker 1: pumped on this movie, as was the world as will

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Speaker 1: the world be again, which is why we are unlocking

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Speaker 1: our episode about Spider Man into the Spider Verse ahead

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Speaker 1: of the sequel, which if you don't know, if you

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Speaker 1: live under a rock, no judgment Patrick Starr. Sorry, I

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Speaker 1: was watching SpongeBob this morning, okay, brag, I mean literally

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Speaker 1: lives under a rock. It's commentary. So Patrick Starr probably

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Speaker 1: doesn't know that the sequel comes out this week, and

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Speaker 1: we're very excited to see it, so we wanted to

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Speaker 1: unlock the episode. Yes, so yeah. This originally appeared on

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Speaker 1: our Patreon aka Matreon, which hey, if you like this episode,

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Speaker 1: you can pop over there. Five bucks a month, two

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Speaker 1: bonus episodes a month, and it's been going since twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen gasp.

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Speaker 3: Gasp, And this one was from May twenty nineteen. It

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Speaker 3: was one of my birthday episodes that year, so if

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Speaker 3: you hear references to it being my birthday throughout the episode,

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Speaker 3: that is why. But also it's kind of always my birthday.

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Speaker 1: Also, your birthday wasn't that long ago, so truly, let's

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Speaker 1: we're going to continue celebrating and observing your birthday.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. We also talk about in this

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Speaker 3: episode how Alfred Molina is not in the MCU and

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Speaker 3: how that's a crime. Oh good catch, because at the

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Speaker 3: time of this recording, he was not in the MCU.

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Speaker 3: But then but then Spider Man No Way Home comes

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Speaker 3: out well, well well, which is about a different Spider

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Speaker 3: Verse than the Miles Morales Spider Verse according to the

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Speaker 3: movies at least, I don't know what happens in the comics.

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Speaker 3: But Alfred Molina, we are proud to say, is now

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Speaker 3: in the MCU.

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Speaker 1: He's MCU can and honestly think, freaking god.

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Speaker 3: It's about dang time.

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Speaker 1: So that's been you know, one of the few things

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Speaker 1: Marvelous done right in the last couple of years is

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Speaker 1: finally formally induct mister Alfred Blina into the MCU. So yes,

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Speaker 1: remember this is the past. These are versions of ourselves

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Speaker 1: that are simply so stoked about Spider Man into the

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Speaker 1: Spider Verse. And we were right. But things have changed

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Speaker 1: and they've actually gotten much worse. So just keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind when you're listening to the episode. We have

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Speaker 1: no idea how bad things are going to get, and

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Speaker 1: so in that way, it's kind of a window to

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Speaker 1: the past. It is, but it's true. But we're very

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Speaker 1: excited to share it with the main feed. We're obviously

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Speaker 1: very pumped for the new movie we will very likely

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Speaker 1: be covering the new movie on either the main feed

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Speaker 1: or the Matreon down the line. But yeah, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to celebrate, so happy summer, and please enjoy the episode

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Speaker 1: on Spider Man into the spider Verse.

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Speaker 3: Please enjoy. But also, I guess first we should say

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Speaker 3: what the Bechdel test is, which we didn't pass when

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Speaker 3: we were talking about Alfred Molina, except that we did

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Speaker 3: make the rule that when we talk about Alfred Molina,

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Speaker 3: it does pass.

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Speaker 1: But if you've been with us for a while, you'll

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Speaker 1: know that it passes on a technicality.

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Speaker 3: However, However, normally the Bechdel Test, which is the media

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Speaker 3: metric that we named the show after, even though we

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Speaker 3: talk about so much more. But the Bechdel Test is

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Speaker 3: a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes

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Speaker 3: called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It first appeared in her

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Speaker 3: comic Dikes to Watch Out For as a bit and

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Speaker 3: also I want to do this more, but just to

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Speaker 3: shout out the context in which it appears in the comics,

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Speaker 3: because it's two queer women talking about how when they're

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Speaker 3: watching a movie and two women appear on screen and

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Speaker 3: they talk to each other if they're not talking about

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Speaker 3: a man. These characters in the comic strip kind of

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Speaker 3: ship the two women together because there was so little

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Speaker 3: and still is so little queer visibility on screen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so that is the context for the Bechdel test, the

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Speaker 3: version we use, There are many versions. Here's ours. Two

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Speaker 3: characters of a marginalized gender must have names, they have

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Speaker 3: to speak to each other, and their conversation has to

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Speaker 3: be about something other than a man. And we really

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Speaker 3: like it when it's a nice, substantial conversation and not

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Speaker 3: just a how's the weather, gale? It's good, Betty.

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Speaker 1: Although that's iconic.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's that I should write an entire script

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Speaker 3: around that conversation alone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be called how well not until the

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Speaker 1: strikes every Baby, which we will be talking about on

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Speaker 1: the Matreon this month. A little peek into some bonus

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Speaker 1: content coming up. But yes, we uh that that is

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Speaker 1: what the Bechdel test is. It's especially during the month

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Speaker 1: of June Pride months. I'm glad that it's something that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the specific context.

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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, So with all of that in mind, please

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Speaker 3: enjoy this unlocked Patreon aka Matreon episode on Spider Man

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Speaker 3: into the Spider Verse cast.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, welcome, We're into the Spider Verse today. I'm excited, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you, if you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: our show, you know your history with this movie is.

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Speaker 4: But why don't you recap it?

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Speaker 3: Well? I did see the movie five times in the theater.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's no me and Itania, but it's pretty impressive.

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Speaker 3: Wait. How many times did you end up seeing Ititania?

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Speaker 1: Nine? Oh my god, I was really into it. There

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Speaker 1: is I have this very cursed screenshot of like the

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Speaker 1: two months I was signed up for a movie past

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Speaker 1: and it's like nine eye toon Yes, and then an

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Speaker 1: unsubscription once I was out of theaters. Oh my goodness, wild.

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Speaker 1: But five times is like intense. Yeah, yours you stand

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Speaker 1: this movie?

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Speaker 3: I really do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And then your history.

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Speaker 1: Is I just saw it for the first time. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I simply didn't see it in theaters because I was

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Speaker 1: too busy watching my DVD of Ititonya at home. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, I am a fan. I'm a longtime fan

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Speaker 1: of Spider Man.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really the only superhero I've ever been

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Speaker 1: a fan to the point where I would like, go

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Speaker 1: keep up sure as best I could. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of that does have to do with Alfred Molina,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, obviously, because now that I'm saying I've

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Speaker 1: kept up with Spider Man, I haven't seen the new

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Speaker 1: ones and I didn't see the Andrew Garfield ones, So

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Speaker 1: I guess I really am just.

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Speaker 3: Really just a big from Molina as dot com.

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Speaker 1: I did like the Sam Raimi trilogy, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I didn't keep going with Spider Man. But

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Speaker 1: there was a while, like in middle school, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm into Spider Man.

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Speaker 3: Well the amazing Spider Man's with Andrew Grefield.

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Speaker 1: Are they suck? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: But then the new reboot that's part of the mculove. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the first one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, people, I mean I hear new Spider Man rules,

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Speaker 1: I just haven't seen it yet. But this was like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is like right up, Maley. I love

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Speaker 1: I love cartoons, I love experimental cartoons. I love Phil Lord.

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Speaker 4: I have a huge crush on Phil Lord.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was. I just saw it. I really

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Speaker 1: like it and I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah the Lord is is he hot?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Let me get you a visual. Sorry, Smiek Moore

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Speaker 1: is also hot. But there's a lot of hot people

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Speaker 1: involved in this movie. Actually it's uh, it's actually a

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Speaker 1: little bit of setting. Okay, why can't Okay, not to

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Speaker 1: dump on Christopher Miller, but that's not who I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to look at.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what they look like.

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Speaker 1: He's hot. He's a bit like he's hot, like they're

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Speaker 1: there were getting a lot of subpar comic con pictures.

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Speaker 1: He's hot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, the thing is, yeah, he's hot.

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Speaker 1: He's hot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you know, good for him.

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Speaker 4: But let's talk about the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, love it, Love it so much. There's so much

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Speaker 3: to love about it. The animation style is so it's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the I mean, the story, the characters, the soundtrack is awesome.

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Speaker 1: It's funny.

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Speaker 3: It's funny. The movie does a really good job of

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Speaker 3: balancing like heavy emotional beats with like humor.

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Speaker 1: There was one twist I legitimately did not see coming.

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Speaker 3: Was it the uncle?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't see that coming.

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Speaker 3: I didn't either.

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Speaker 1: This is like, these movies are hard to at this

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Speaker 1: point because there's five hundred million superhero movies.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to.

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Speaker 1: Not see something coming like that was. I was very

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Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised, and then like really sad I knew like

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Speaker 1: once he comes out, You're like, oh no, he's gonna

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Speaker 1: die cool.

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Speaker 4: And then I cried.

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Speaker 3: I cried like during three different parts of this movie.

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Speaker 3: When I first saw by myself on Thursday night of

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Speaker 3: opening weekend, and then oh the other the doc Ock reveal.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see coming the.

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Speaker 1: Doc Ock reveal. I think I did, but only because

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Speaker 1: you told me about it. I knew that doc docs

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Speaker 1: so womn. I knew that doc Cock was a woman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then it was like, well, this is the only

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Speaker 1: woman in Stem we've seen so far. So yeah, oh

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Speaker 1: I like the reveal that Aunt May is a woman

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Speaker 1: in Stem in this one. You're just like, yeah, sure, right,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of this movie where that in a

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Speaker 1: very pleasant way. I was like, yeah, of course, sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm Cage is in it, Sure, I'm I'm with this whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's so fun and yeah, and you never see a

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Speaker 1: movie this diverse in the normal MCU or really in

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Speaker 1: any movie at all. Right, So I'm like really glad

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Speaker 1: that this was this movie rated PG, yeah, PG. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I mean it's like that's the perfect like audience

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Speaker 1: for this movie and like the audience that both wants

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Speaker 1: to and needs to see like a cast this diverse

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Speaker 1: and funny and cool. So I'm I'm super psyched that

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Speaker 1: like a ton of people got to see it and

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Speaker 1: it was really successful. It like won all the awards,

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Speaker 1: it was financially successful, and Amy Pascal produced it. Love

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Speaker 1: her emails every time we bring it up. Every time

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Speaker 1: Pascal's in the ring, we got to bring up hashtag

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Speaker 1: her email. Sure if you haven't read Amy Pascal's emails, boy,

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Speaker 1: oh boy, she is not a fan of Angelina Jolie.

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Speaker 3: Oh I haven't. I guess I haven't read them.

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Speaker 1: Oh she was like the Sony email hack that was.

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Speaker 3: I remember that, but I don't know the content of them.

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Speaker 3: I guess she.

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Speaker 1: Really said some funny, mean things about Angelina Jolie. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So the recap is we are introduced to

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Speaker 3: Spider Man. He's given a voice over. He's like, look

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Speaker 3: at me, here's my comic book. I'm the only Spider

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Speaker 3: Man around and I'm cool and I love being Spider

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Speaker 3: Man on his.

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Speaker 1: Son And that's okay. First of all, you knew you

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Speaker 1: saw I was triggered by blonde spider Man or any

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Speaker 1: blonde adult male. Sure, and he's the first spider Man

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Speaker 1: is voiced by one of the Chris.

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Speaker 3: Is Chris Pine?

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Speaker 4: What is he?

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Speaker 1: And the other ones?

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Speaker 3: He's He's Marvel.

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Speaker 1: He's the only one. He's the only Chris. He's in DC,

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Speaker 1: He's in one of them.

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Speaker 3: Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: He just Bayton switched to me. I knew every actor

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Speaker 1: named Chris was in one of the universe versus the Law,

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Speaker 1: It's like, how can he be breaking the law? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Chris Pine is Steve in Wonder Woman. Yes, got it? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm good to contain you.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why you're yelling at me on my birthday. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Also, post Malone has a large he's a huge plot.

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Speaker 1: This is the movie that made you a post Malone fan.

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Speaker 3: That's true, It's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We meet this blonde spider Man and then we meet

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Speaker 3: Miles Morales. He is going to middle school, private school

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Speaker 3: in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: He likes art, he likes post Malone, loves post Malone.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't know the words to the song. He chats

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Speaker 3: with this girl in his science class whose name is

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Speaker 3: she calls it herself Gwanda. I don't quite know why

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Speaker 3: that happens. I don't know why she doesn't just say

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Speaker 3: my name is Gwen, because he wouldn't know who Spider

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Speaker 3: Gwen is.

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Speaker 1: Well, but there are Spider Man comics in his universe,

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Speaker 1: so maybe the character Gwen Stacy exists does maybe, But

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Speaker 1: also it's like if you if I meet someone named Gwen,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like, you're a fictional character like that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: she seems like maybe she's not giving him enough credits.

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Speaker 3: Right, I guess that all those comics do because we

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Speaker 3: see imagery of the He reads them and he has.

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Speaker 1: Them, so I'm assuming that he like would know who

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Speaker 1: Gwen Stacey was, But why would he think that anyone

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Speaker 1: named Gwen was just automatically? So I think she's really

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Speaker 1: underestimating his intelligence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I guess that clears that up. Okay, So

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Speaker 3: he talks to her. He goes to his uncle's apartment.

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Speaker 3: They go into like an abandoned subway line.

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Speaker 1: Right, And he's got a cool uncle. And you can

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Speaker 1: tell he's cool because he he's not in a committed

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Speaker 1: relationship and he has a punch bag and his studio apartments.

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Speaker 1: I love how cool aunts and uncles are like just

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Speaker 1: visually established in movies. It is always if any of

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Speaker 1: our listeners have any good examples of like cool aunts

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Speaker 1: and uncles and their sweet apartments, it's it's basically always

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Speaker 1: their apartment. Right, We're just like, oh, this person answers

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Speaker 1: to no one. They've got framed posters like cool on uncle.

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Speaker 3: Shit, Yeah right, okay, so cool uncle, cool bachelor uncle.

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Speaker 3: They go into this abandoned Someway line area and paint

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Speaker 3: some graffiti, and this is where Miles gets bitten by

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Speaker 3: this crazy looking spider.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, cute spider. It's very cute spider forty two right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a label. I'm sure that's a reference to something,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know. I have no idea what it is.

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Speaker 3: So he gets bitten by this spider, and then the

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Speaker 3: next day he wakes up, he feels kind of weird.

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Speaker 3: He's like, did I go through puberty? My pants don't

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Speaker 3: fit a lot?

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Speaker 1: And you've seen it in five different movies. He's Spider Man,

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Speaker 1: but he's confused.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't know it yet.

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Speaker 1: The webs are come. But you can't say that ever

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Speaker 1: in the movies except in the James Cameron's Oh God,

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Speaker 1: the iconic James Cameron script when he explicitly says it's

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Speaker 1: come yeah, if.

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Speaker 3: Only, and then he bumps into Gwanda or Wanda whatever.

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Speaker 3: He thinks her name is from Class Why by Hailey Steinfeldt,

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Speaker 3: and he gets his hand stuck in her hair and

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Speaker 3: he's like, what the what am I Spider Man or what?

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Speaker 3: And then he goes to investigate what's going on, goes

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Speaker 3: back to the old subway, sees the Spider and he's like,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, this is not normal. And then while

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Speaker 3: he's there, he discovers actual Spider Man. He's fighting the

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Speaker 3: Green Goblin.

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Speaker 1: The Green Goblin is not William H. Macy in correct world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a literal gobliny giant goble.

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Speaker 1: Kind of just like a robody kind of guy, right,

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Speaker 1: Like he looks like a robot.

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Speaker 3: Well he's not the robot. He's like just this like

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Speaker 3: giant reptilian monster with like a tongue that he's more.

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Speaker 1: Like abstract, I mean, he's like more like an actual monster, yeah,

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Speaker 1: than like a man, right, just dressed up like a monster.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and then Miles and Spiderman cross paths and Spider

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Speaker 3: Man's spider sense goes off. He's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: you're like me, I can show you the ropes on

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Speaker 3: how to be Spider Man. Let me just go destroy

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Speaker 3: this big collider machine first and defeat this bad guy

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Speaker 3: named Fisk. Hell yeah, but then before all that can happen,

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Speaker 3: Fisk powers up the super collider that opens up all

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Speaker 3: these Yeah, no explanation needed.

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Speaker 1: But oh it's Willem Dafoe. What the fuck am I talking? Sorry?

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Speaker 3: What did you say, William?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I didn't even catch that.

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Speaker 1: I can use Willem Dafoe, William age Macy and Steve

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Speaker 1: BUSHEMI constant.

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Speaker 3: I mean they all are like character actors who like.

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Speaker 1: They audition for the same parts a lot.

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Speaker 3: Probably William H. Macy though, is like he's got like

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Speaker 3: a kind face. And then Willem Dafoe, it always usually

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Speaker 3: plays a villain because he's got like a a more

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Speaker 3: sinister look.

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Speaker 1: About willmhe Macy in trouble because of that whole college admission.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean his wife, his wife. I don't

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Speaker 3: know how complicit he is in it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess it depends on Actually it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a loose less because if he's not involved.

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Speaker 4: That just means he's not very involved in this children's lives.

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Speaker 1: So he's a bad father. Maybe he won't go to jail.

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Speaker 3: Sucks how the world works, oh wild. Anyways, so Fisk

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Speaker 3: powers up the collider, which opens up all these different

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Speaker 3: alternate dimensions, and then Fisk kills Spider Man. No, and

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Speaker 3: then the bad guys spot Miles, who was like lurking nearby,

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Speaker 3: and he has to make a run for it. And

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Speaker 3: then one of the bad guys, whose name is I

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Speaker 3: think Prowler, goes after Miles, but he manages to escape

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Speaker 3: and he's like, okay, fuck, Like, I have to be

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Speaker 3: Spider Man. The other Spider Man is dead, like everyone's

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Speaker 3: counting on me. I have to assume this role. But

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Speaker 3: he doesn't know how to do it. He's complicated jumping

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Speaker 3: off of buildings, he breaks the thumb drive that the

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Speaker 3: other Spider Man had given him, and he's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if I can do this. But just then

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Speaker 3: another Peter Parker shows up.

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Speaker 4: What I know?

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Speaker 1: This one is Jake Johnson.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and he is the amazing Spider Man ever

366
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Speaker 3: heard of him? He right, so he's from this alternate dimension.

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Speaker 3: He is older, his life is in shambles. He's divorced,

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Speaker 3: he's got a dad bod and we love that for him. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we do.

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Speaker 4: Now this.

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Speaker 3: Peter Parker is reluctant to get involved, but he eventually

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Speaker 3: agrees to team up with Miles, and then they go

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Speaker 3: to alkam X, which is like the science lab that

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Speaker 3: is responsible for creating the collider.

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Speaker 1: And they need to go there.

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Speaker 3: They have to download like the schematics or something so

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Speaker 3: that they can destroy the collider. And then that's where

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00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: we meet doc oc aka doctor Olivia Octavius, not Alfred Molina,

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: But hell, we've gotta we gotta get him in the MCU.

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Speaker 1: There's a place for him there. Sure, it breaks my

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Speaker 1: heart that he's not canon.

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Speaker 3: I know, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I truly anyone else in the Raimi Spider Man movies

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Speaker 1: don't care, don't need you there. Yeah, but if anyone

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Speaker 1: has the gentle heart of Alfred Molinas doc ok rehearsing

387
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Speaker 1: for Filler on the roof, I mean, I swear to god,

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Speaker 1: did you see that video?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 3: Right, everyone tagged us in it is if you weren't

391
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Speaker 3: the person who brought that up on that episode, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I know, we're just like hello, oh god, it was

393
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Speaker 3: a blank check.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you know people just like, don't listen

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Speaker 1: to me anyways.

396
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Speaker 4: Lets it's not.

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Speaker 3: Your birthday, it's why Okay. So they have downloaded this

398
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: stuff from alchem X and dot coc is there, and

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Speaker 3: also the person who's there is Gwen, who we learned

400
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 3: what her actual name is, and she's another Spider person,

401
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Speaker 3: yet another alternate universe.

402
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Speaker 1: It's so complicated, you know, And so they team up

403
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Speaker 1: with her.

404
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 3: And this is where I stopped writing down what happens.

405
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Speaker 3: So now I'm just going from memory.

406
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Speaker 1: Baby, I mean, you've seen it nine hundred times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definite help, I'll help. Okay. Great. So then

408
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Speaker 3: they go to Aunt May's house.

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Speaker 1: And May's Lily Tomlin.

410
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Speaker 3: M hmmm.

411
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: So that's great. Yeah, love that.

412
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 3: I love that. Her nephew, Peter Parker is the one

413
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: who had just died. So they're like, hey, this is weird.

414
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Speaker 3: Our condolences also were from alternate universes. Can you help

415
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 3: us out? So they go into like the Spider Shed

416
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Speaker 3: and she's like, hey, meet these other Spider people. And

417
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Speaker 3: this is when we meet Spider Noir, Spider Ham, and

418
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Speaker 3: Penny Parker, who I don't know what her If she

419
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Speaker 3: has like a spider name, I don't know.

420
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Speaker 1: I think she might just be like a let me check,

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: let me check, I'll research cool.

422
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: So we meet those Spider folk and they're great.

423
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Speaker 1: They're all animated in different styles. This movie's so cool.

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Speaker 1: It's really exciting.

425
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Speaker 3: And then they're all kind of figuring out, Okay, we

426
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Speaker 3: need to stop Fisk and his collider, but we need to.

427
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Speaker 1: Get the big square guy. He's played by Leave Schreiber,

428
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: got it.

429
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they're trying to figure out, Okay, someone needs

430
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Speaker 3: to stay behind and turn off the collider after we've

431
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Speaker 3: gotten everyone to their respective alternate universe, and Miles is like, well,

432
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Speaker 3: I should be the one to do it, because this

433
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Speaker 3: is my dimension. I'm already here. I'll be the one

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Speaker 3: to stay behind. But he's not good at being Spider

435
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: Man yet, so they're like, we don't really trust you

436
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 3: to do this, right.

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00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh, she played Penny Parker slash sp Dash dash dr.

438
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 3: Oh is that the name of her robot?

439
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: I guess, like the robot that's an extension of her. Yeah, okay,

440
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: spdr got it.

441
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: So Miles is like, fuck, I'm not a good Spider

442
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 3: Man yet and he leaves and broods a little bit.

443
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a teen. That's the best part about

444
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: Spider Man is he's moody.

445
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then and I think it's around this time

446
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: that he discovers that his uncle is actually the Prowler of.

447
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: The Yeah, I was not aware of the character the

448
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: Prowler before this me either.

449
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 3: I don't think he's introduced in any of the other

450
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 3: Spider Man movies.

451
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 4: Thank you, Spider Verse. Didn't know who Prowler was, and

452
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 4: you know, I guess.

453
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: I mean now, yeah, oh yeah. Before that, there's a

454
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 3: big fight in Aunt May's house where the bad guys

455
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: are trying to get the thumb Drive back.

456
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: Aunt May is also not the helpless aunt that she

457
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: is an earlier incarnations with Spider Man. She is keeping

458
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: the Spike because in the world that Aunt May is

459
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: and in Miles's world, Peter Parker is dead and she's

460
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: mourning him. But she also has this Spider Bunker where

461
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: she does fucking science shit and it's great.

462
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: It's great. Yes, I loved that. So yeah, they the

463
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: bad guys come, they fail in getting the thumb drive back,

464
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 3: and then Prowler dies because.

465
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: Really sad sad.

466
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 5: I know.

467
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: It reminded me of the Lion King oh with the

468
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: mufassa yeah, or the kids just like I'm sorry, emotional

469
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: and then the dying adult is like, it's all good,

470
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: You're awesome and then dies.

471
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: And then Miles Morales goes and finds Timon and Poopa right.

472
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: And then he grows. He comes of h with that

473
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: crazy that Nathan Lane. Nathan Lane. As much as I

474
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: love John mulaney, John Laney is basically doing an impression

475
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: of Nathan Lane for this character. Yeah, I think I

476
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: think he sounds super nice. I mean he kind of

477
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: naturally kind of sounds like Nathan Lane too. Sure, I

478
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: think for this character especially, I'm like, oh, he's good.

479
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: There's some some serious Tomon vibes ironically coming out of

480
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: this pig character commentary.

481
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: Because wait, timoone is the mirrorca Meerkat.

482
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, John and mullaney or he's a I'm gonna

483
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: read a five thousand word piece on Medium about like

484
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: the brilliant subtlety of John Mulaney's performance. That's Spider him.

485
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: The world needs it. Okay, So then story what happens

486
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: in the story after this? So the uncle has died,

487
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: and then Myles is sad about it. There's like this

488
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 3: emotionally heavy moment between him and his dad. Ohever there's

489
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: a wall between them. And then the Spider people come

490
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: back and they're like, hey, okay, we're gonna go do

491
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: this thing because again you're not a good Spider Man

492
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 3: and now.

493
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: You're like an emotional wreck right too. And there's that

494
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: great scene where he's like, you don't get it, and

495
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: they're like they all list the critical person in their

496
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: life they've lost, because that's the story, right, And then

497
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, kiss you get it? There stand and

498
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: then they travelm in webs and then.

499
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: The monologue that his dad gives sort of empowers him

500
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 3: to be the great man he's destined to become.

501
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: The power of the love between father and son frees

502
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: him from the com webs and he goes and he

503
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: saves the day.

504
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: Yep. So he goes back to Aunt May and he's like,

505
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 3: I'm ready to be Spider Man. She's like, great, here's

506
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: a suit, here's some tools.

507
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: He's still a scientist. She basically is like the what's

508
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: that lady who's Edna in The Incredibles, except not annoying

509
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: because she's just like, oh right, she's because Edna is

510
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: a woman in stem but they try to make her

511
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: just seem like she's a costume designer. That's right.

512
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: And she's also a voice by Brad Bird.

513
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: So that wild. What a time to be alive? Can

514
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: I can I do a little industry inside her talk?

515
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: Please?

516
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: Okay? So I was at the ANNIE.

517
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 4: Awards this year where spider where Spider Verse one fucking.

518
00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: Every Aniwards are animated.

519
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the animated Oscars. It's very boring, but

520
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: I was excited and uh so Spider Verse like completely

521
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: swept and like won every feature category. And Brad Bird

522
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: was there because I think he assumed that Incredibles two

523
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: is gonna sweep. Oh sure, and he looked really pissed,

524
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: where I'm like, it's just the Annie's Like, it's not

525
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: a big deal. But he lost and he.

526
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: Worked hard for it. But I lost.

527
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: But why we should have talked?

528
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what were you there for?

529
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: I was nominated for a show I worked on.

530
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: Hey what shows it to people? Everyone?

531
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: Uh log onto Facebook dot com and launch a show

532
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: called human kind of It was. It was a great

533
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: series and it almost wanted Annie and then it was

534
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: canceled because life is unfair. But I think, you know,

535
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: I can relate with Brad Bird and a lot of

536
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: we're basically the same person.

537
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: Didn't you also see Alfred Molina there.

538
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: I did see Alfurd Leina there and I was too

539
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: great to talk to him. That is really exciting this.

540
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: You had met him?

541
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, after he was on our podcast, literally two weeks later.

542
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: I was too scared and he I got another message

543
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: from him, not like a direct message. No, he went

544
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: in to record the robot chicken sketch that I wrote

545
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: for him last week, and they were like, guess who

546
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: wrote this? And he was like, oh my gosh, she's

547
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: all over the place.

548
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: She starting to She's really closing in, isn't she?

549
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: Anyways?

550
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: All right, so what happens in the movie though I

551
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: don't know?

552
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 4: Okay, So so he escapes because the power of love.

553
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: He goes to aunt Ray, he gets his web shooters

554
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: and then he's ready to go and be a part

555
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: of the fight. He meets up with them in like

556
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: the it's basically Trump Tower Vortex. Yes, so there's like

557
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: this benefit going on. Fisk is Trump. He's got the

558
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: tower to prove it. And everything, and below that is

559
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: where the collider is colliding. And then you know, the

560
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: Spider gang is fighting doc Oc and the other bad guys,

561
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: and then Miles shows up and he's like I'm ready,

562
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 3: I'm here, let me help, and they're like, oh my god,

563
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: you're doing such a good job. And then the Spider

564
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: people return to their respective dimensions, and so it's up

565
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: to Miles and shut off the collider, and he does

566
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: do it, and then and then his dad is there,

567
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: who had, you know, feelings of animosity toward the idea

568
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: of Spider Man, but he's like, wait a minute, Spider

569
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: Man is actually a good guy who wants to do

570
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: good things right, And.

571
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: Then they're the one thing that was just like where

572
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: when Miles finally calls his dad and they very quickly

573
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: brush over his uncle's death, right, The dad is like, hey,

574
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but something with

575
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: your uncle, and then Miles is like, I know, and

576
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: he was like, okay, why are you coming home? Like

577
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: maybe that is how men process dead. I don't know,

578
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: it seemed pretty chill to me.

579
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, it was. And then Miles fully embraces

580
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: his new identity as Spider man and that is the

581
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: end of the movie.

582
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: So it's such a good movie.

583
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: I love it so much.

584
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: I really really enjoyed it.

585
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and we will come back

586
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: for the discussion. And we're back where to begin with

587
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: the discussion.

588
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. I mean, if we're just starting

589
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: off from I mean, we've already established it's like it's

590
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: the most diverse inclusive superhero movie I've ever seen.

591
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: I mean, probably aside from Black Panther.

592
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: But beside from Black Panther, I mean, but in terms

593
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: of seeing like and this is like a no accortisms

594
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: of Black Panther, but you're seeing all types of people

595
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: in Spider Verse where I feel like it's the only

596
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: like the thing that hit for me is like, this

597
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: is the only semi realistic portrayal of like the makeup

598
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: of New York City, oh, that I've ever seen in

599
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: a movie, and it's a cartoon like the all white

600
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: portrayals of New York City that we've come across in

601
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: every rom com we've ever covered, and other movies, like

602
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: in action movies too, but just the all white New

603
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: York that never existed that is so persistent in movies

604
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: because of systemic racism. But it was really cool to

605
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: see such a like a diverse cast where you have

606
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: like a lot of people of color. Do we don't?

607
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: I guess there's a pig.

608
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 5: Do you?

609
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: Are there any queer characters in this not identifiably so

610
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: or even I think coded that way. So it's it's

611
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: a pretty but then there's no real sexuality at all

612
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: to speak of.

613
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean it's not. I mean, there is a little

614
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: bit of a love story, and I want to get

615
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: into that, right, but I have a few Gwen thoughts,

616
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: But in general like it. It is so cool to

617
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: see New York look actually represent or.

618
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: Miles has his mom's last name. His name is not

619
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: Miles Jefferson, it's Miles Morales.

620
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: And we know what hit like, we know what both

621
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: of his parents do. We know a lot about his

622
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: home life, and you know when even when people of

623
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: color are the main character, you don't often get to

624
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: see their home life. When I'm thinking of fucking the

625
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: craft sure where the only black woman in the cast

626
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: is the only character you find out nothing about. And

627
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: it's also cool to see like a working class family

628
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: portrayed on screen, because that doesn't you know, It's like

629
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: there's all these really famous and sometimes even good kids

630
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: movies about vaguely wealthy white kids that live in gigantic

631
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: houses and have never had a problem and then they

632
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: get magical powers. You're just like, okay, but I mean,

633
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: his mom is a nurse, his dad is a cop.

634
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and dad's name is Jefferson Davis, which is the

635
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: same name of the only president of the Confederate States

636
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 3: during the Civil War, which a lot of people have

637
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 3: pointed out. They're like, that's weird, but that is his

638
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: character's name.

639
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: That can't have been an accident, And I'm very confused. Yeah,

640
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: so I didn't hear his full name set out lot.

641
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that he had his mom's last name.

642
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: What a strange thing. But I mean his parents are together, Yeah,

643
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: I guess we don't know if they're married. Do we

644
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: know that they're married.

645
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: I don't know if we know. Yeah, they might just

646
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 3: be partnered. But yeah, either way, Miles has his mom's

647
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 3: last name. She is LATINX And we see them speaking

648
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 3: Spanish together, Like it's rare that we see Spanish spoken

649
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: by a main character. Yeah, and in any movie really,

650
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: unless it's like a Spanish language film and not have

651
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: it like be.

652
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: Super called attention to like it's yeah or landscape right

653
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 4: or like yeah, othered in some way where it's like Oka,

654
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 4: the others are speaking Spanish but we hear in America

655
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 4: speak English kind of thing, so like yeah, it was

656
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: like very normalized and very cool, which.

657
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: Again is New York exactly.

658
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: Like there's so like there are so many which which

659
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: is why it's like, you know, Miles Morales, the character

660
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: is such a cool thing for visibility because there's so

661
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: many kids like him and just who you know, the

662
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: world has never taken the time to portray in a

663
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: way that isn't patronizing or half baked or shitty. So

664
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I love this families set up. I mean

665
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be a weird feeling. I feel like

666
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: at this cultural.

667
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 4: Moment of being like, I guess we like cops in

668
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: this movie, but that is that is how the story goes.

669
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that is also kind of like baked

670
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: into superhero lore as well in a way that's kind

671
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: of hard to escape or hasn't really been addressed. And

672
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: this is coming from someone who doesn't know the deep

673
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: history of superheroes. But like superheroes, I feel like.

674
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: Are generally portrayed to be like allies to cops.

675
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 3: I think so some superhero movies just sort of ignore

676
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: the like law enforcement exists at all.

677
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: The other one that it seems stupid, and then superheros

678
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: are smart.

679
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: The other main series that integrates police to a large

680
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: extent that I'm familiar with is Batman, and the cops

681
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 3: in that one are always like he's a Gilante and

682
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: I don't like it, and then there's always like Commissioner Gordon,

683
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: who's like his one ally, and then all the other ones.

684
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of like good cops in across

685
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: superhero narratives, but it does sort of go the same

686
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: way where the end scene, even though there's like another

687
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: level to it because it's literally a father and son talking,

688
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: but it is like Spider Man is an ally of

689
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: the NYPD. Okay, but that I mean he's kind of

690
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: like that in all the iterations of Spider Man. I

691
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: feel like in the Sam Raimi ones, the cops are

692
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: made out to look kind of just like less competent

693
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: than Spider Man and like jealous of him.

694
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. It's been a while since

695
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: I've seen any of those ones, but yeah, I think so.

696
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: Anyways, someone link us to what I'm sure is a

697
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: very well written essay about how the MCU superheroes relate

698
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: to the cops. But again, it's like seeing a working

699
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: class family from New York portrayed on screen in a

700
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: way that is really realistic, Like their apartment is realistic,

701
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: versus like the wide open spaces, Oh.

702
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: My god, like the millions bazillion dollars like soho lofts.

703
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: That you see and like all these or like I'm

704
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: thinking of like this, like Carrie from Sex and the

705
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: City would literally be starving to death if that remained realistic,

706
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: Like she writes one column a week, right, like you

707
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: can't afford to live hunt like you can't. You're waiting

708
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: forty five days for your freelancers check to come in. Anyways,

709
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: love the setup and the visibility in terms of like

710
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: race and class.

711
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 3: Especially because like Miles is like he's basically a socialist,

712
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: where he's like, I don't want to go to this school.

713
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 3: It's elitist, Like I want to go to my public school.

714
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: Well, what it's referencing it is like the real setup

715
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: of New York public schools that is like very it's

716
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: the way public schools work in New York is weird.

717
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: Where there was like an intensely reported story of it.

718
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: They came out a couple of weeks ago that basically

719
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: there are these like magnet schools that are publicly funded

720
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: but are kind of like elitist that it looks like

721
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: the school that Miles gets transferred to is based on

722
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: and the way that you get entry into one of

723
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: those like public plus schools is by taking a test,

724
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: and the dad references like you've tested in. So people

725
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: take the test and then they're put into a lottery

726
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: because there's only so much space. But there's still a

727
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: lot of systemic racism in the way those schools are sorted,

728
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: and like all these magnet schools are supposed to be

729
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: this big public win for public education, and there's almost

730
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: no black and Latino kids who get out of the lottery,

731
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: as it were fucked. So that scene I was just like, oh, woll,

732
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: like someone did their homework on New York public schools.

733
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: Because he's walking by his old middle school, which seems

734
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: very diverse. Yeah, and then you see the scene where

735
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 3: he's you know, entering this magnet.

736
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 6: Esque school and it's fancy predominantly and it's white, and

737
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 6: it's yeah, like there's I believe it was a New

738
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 6: York Times story that came out by the time you

739
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 6: hear this will come out about a month ago.

740
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: But it's a fascinating look at how like these public

741
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: systems are established to be for the greater good and

742
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: yet are still so very racist and not inclusive at all.

743
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: Any other thing you want to say about that in

744
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: terms of like diversity inclusion.

745
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean I think that that is like

746
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: this move in addition to just being a good movie,

747
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: like that's this movie is like great strength and distinction

748
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: from the landscape it comes out, And I mean it's

749
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: really this movie and Black Panther that you get any

750
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: level of diversity that isn't extremely tokenized.

751
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: Definitely. Yeah, yes, huge strength for the movie. Let's talk

752
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 3: about the women.

753
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about we mean it takes a while for

754
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: this movie to include women in the plot in a

755
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: meaningful way. I thought, yes, because I think for the

756
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: first half, unless I'm missing something, you meet a mom,

757
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: you meet someone that is introduced to us as a

758
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: love interest, because that's originally how Gwen Stacy's introduced in

759
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: all of these stories. Yes, and eventually, I feel like

760
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: it's not until you get to Olivia Octavius that women

761
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: become a structural part of the plot. Agree, And it

762
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: takes a while for us to get there.

763
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, at least a half hour, if not more. Yeah, Yeah,

764
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: I completely agree. Up until then, it's just you know,

765
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: scenes with you know, him and aid Man dead or yeah,

766
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 3: him in acting with the Spider Man running away from

767
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 3: the bad guys.

768
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: And I do think that it's and I don't want

769
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: to be too critical of this movie because I like,

770
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: I really love it, and I'm excited to talk about

771
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: the relationships between men that I thought were really cool

772
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: in this thing. But it does it, you know, you

773
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: do kind of notice and it sort of betrays the

774
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: fact that this was written by men and directed by men,

775
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: and Amy was directed by Amy Pascal's emails of course,

776
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: she never her emails never get credit for They're sentient

777
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: and Incredibles from twenty thirteen directed so many movies. But yeah,

778
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, the main focus, even within the family is

779
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of screen time devoted to Miles' relationship

780
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: with his dad. There's a lot of screen time devoted

781
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: to Miles's relationship with his uncle. There's really not that

782
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: much of Miles and his mom where we know what

783
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: she does, which is more than most movies give us,

784
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: but there's that's not where the emphasis is and the

785
00:42:59,040 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: family dynamic.

786
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: The only thing we really see is a scene where

787
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 3: like she's doting on him right before he's about to

788
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: leave for school. That's really about it. Yeah, there's so

789
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 3: much like.

790
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: Per see the long scene with Miles and his dad. Yes,

791
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: and yeah, so that like that scene in a movie

792
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: with a lot of strengths.

793
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: You're like, man, I mean I've given this a bit

794
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: of thought. And on one hand, I'm like, yeah, why

795
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 3: couldn't we see a more significant and like more emotional

796
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 3: impactful storyline between him and his mom? And it's only

797
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 3: really given to him and his dad and then also

798
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: him and his uncle, which you know means that less

799
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 3: time and attention is devoted to the mum character. But also,

800
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he's a uh I know, I

801
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: don't want to like sound like I'm defending you know,

802
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 3: the absence of women in a story. And I've never

803
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: been a thirteen year old old boy, so I don't

804
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: really know but I think it kind of stands to

805
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: reason that like a boy of that age is going

806
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: to look up to the male figures in his life

807
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 3: and you know, try to learn from them, you know,

808
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 3: learn how to be a man and all this stuff,

809
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: which can be problematic. But the fact that at least

810
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: his dad is a very supportive figure in his life.

811
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: I just think that there's and I guess this is

812
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean, for everyone who's gonna I mean, this is

813
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: a major an episode, so we can actually be more

814
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: critical without being afraid of people. But I mean, there's

815
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: a version of this script where instead of creating this

816
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: uncle figure to become you know, who is like this

817
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 1: positive influence in his life and teaches him the lighter

818
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: side of life and how to have fun, and that

819
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, his dad is you know, the sort of

820
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: rigidity of his dad, isn't the only way to live

821
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: could be played by his mom instead of like creating

822
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: another male character to fill that void. But that said,

823
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean or an aunt or not right right, Like

824
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: it's I don't think that those nests. But but then

825
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't really know because because one of the things

826
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: I do like about this movie is it allows male

827
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: characters to be vulnerable with other male characters in a

828
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: way that seems pretty healthy and productive. And that is

829
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: something that I think young people and people in general

830
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 1: should see where there's like such a strong like it's

831
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: like part of the core relationship of Miles and his

832
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: dad that his dad is like I love you, say

833
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: it back, like, which you don't see between fathers and

834
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: sons a lot in movies because there's, you know, that

835
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: cultural sticky thing that we can't seem to get rid of.

836
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: His come webs. There's this cultural com web that like

837
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: men can't express their emotions to each other, right, and

838
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: that there is something wrong for Amanda ta another man

839
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: that they love each other. I feel like there's so

840
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: many examples of me growing up where my male cousins,

841
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: my male friends when they were talking to other boys,

842
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: they would couch everything really nervously and no homo and

843
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: they would write like where they would just like there's

844
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: that association that any guy expressing affection or emotion at

845
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: all to any other guy that isn't like anger or

846
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: making fun of women was inherently sexual.

847
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this movie we're just like a sign of

848
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: weakness kind.

849
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: Of yeah, totally, And so in that way, like Miles

850
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: and his relationship with the adult men in his life

851
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: is good and is good to see because you see Miles,

852
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: you know, tell his daddy loves him, and watch that

853
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: relationship change over time, and you see the closeness of

854
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: the uncle and the nephew that is like, I just

855
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: wish that we got more of the mom.

856
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, I think maybe a better version

857
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 3: of this is if Uncle Aaron was actually Aunt Aaron

858
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 3: aunt erin you are, and then she and Miles's dad

859
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 3: are brother and sister, the same twist can happen. And

860
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: we know that women can be villains in this world

861
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: because we see Doc Uk.

862
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: Well maybe that's too many female villains that well, but

863
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: then we have female.

864
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 3: Super exactly so it kind of balances out. And then

865
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: if we have a stronger relationship between or just a

866
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: little bit more screen time devoted to Miles's mom, then

867
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: we get the balance of like, oh, like there's and

868
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 3: that's not just all the women in his family are evil.

869
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: He's got a very caring and supportive mother.

870
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: And that could be accomplished in a scene like we

871
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: just had one scene that was just the two of

872
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: them that had an impact on the plot, and wasn't

873
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: just like, oh, his mom, because I feel like that's

874
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: how mom characters are used a lot where even if

875
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: you do get a scene with them, it rarely results

876
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: in any plot. She's sort of like, well, he's loved.

877
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,479
Speaker 3: An easy fix could be because we get a sense

878
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: of how how Miles his dad doesn't like, you know,

879
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 3: the vigilante superhero that is Spider Man. If we see

880
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 3: a scene where his mom is like, oh, I actually

881
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: think Spider Man's cool.

882
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: And well she's she's a Spider Man's stand.

883
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, what if she has like Spider Man merch and stuff? Yeah,

884
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 3: and then does this, oh my god, the Spider verse

885
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: that actually sounds like the Collider I don't know if

886
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 3: if you listeners can hear that anyway, So that would

887
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: impact the plot because a lot of his kind of

888
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: internal struggle comes from his dad not liking Spider Man.

889
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: He likes, Yeah, like Miles already likes Spider Man.

890
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: Seems like every kid likes Spider Man. So like, what

891
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: if Miles' mom likes Spider Man and that's something they

892
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: could bond over or mourn over, because when he dies

893
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: in the sure in Miles is there's more ways to

894
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: include her, and I love I love the idea of

895
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: an aunt instead of an uncle. Yeah, this stories the

896
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: uncle time.

897
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 4: Anyways, if you're listening Phil Lord Chris.

898
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 3: Well, I was like, wait a minute, someone said I

899
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: was hot. Better tune in.

900
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, please everyone at Phil Lord and let him know

901
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: how I feel. Yeah, yeah, I know. I agree with you,

902
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: even though I mean it's I loved. I love the

903
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: family story and I love how much I love the

904
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: family stuff. I wish that women had been included more

905
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: meaningfully in the family stuff. Agree, that's all.

906
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 3: I think the same could also be said for the

907
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: Spider Team.

908
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: I agree, Wow, I completely agree. I think how many

909
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 1: people are in people animals are in the Spider Team

910
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: total is like eight six six. Two women we've.

911
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: Got Gwen Stacy and Penny Parker are the women we've got.

912
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: But Spider Man, We've got Fick Spider Man not does

913
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 3: fix Spider Yeah, Spider Noir, Spider ham Miles. Did I

914
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 3: list all four? Just there, very distracted by you? Did

915
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: this is a Collider? Did men outnumber the women.

916
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: And there's only two people of color? And well, I

917
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: guess we don't technically know Spider Noir or Spider Ham

918
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: but they're voiced by white men. Yes, So it is

919
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: like two out of six in terms of women and

920
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: men and people of color to white people or at

921
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: least actors.

922
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 3: Right, And this is probably like an adaptation issue where

923
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 3: there weren't like other comic series written with a woman

924
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 3: as the lead because they pulled from existing characters.

925
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: And I think it kind of shows and that's like,

926
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: I don't know how that's avoidable because it's like, yeah,

927
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: Peter Parker has been a white kid or adult for

928
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: a long until Miles Morales, so that like it's kind

929
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: of hard to navigate around that and the same thing.

930
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: I mean, And one of the problems that I had

931
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: with Spider Gwen is she's presented very classically feminine and

932
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: her I mean, everyone's costume is different, but hers is

933
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: different in a very particular way. She has a purple,

934
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: pinky streak that goes behind her and it's not that

935
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that, And it's so hard to

936
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: like have this conversation in a way that doesn't seem

937
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: like we're demonizing traditional femininity, Like, right, if that's your thing,

938
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: who cares that's my thing?

939
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 4: A lot of the time, but it is like the

940
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 4: standard way that feminized characters.

941
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 3: Put a bow on them, make them pink.

942
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 4: And eyes right, and they're like, it's girl Spider Man.

943
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: I would also argue that her fight choreography and the

944
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 3: way she moves is ballet feminine.

945
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: It looks like ballet a lot of it.

946
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 3: And she even says at one point, like when they're

947
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: all grilling Miles and they're like, can you punch a

948
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 3: bunch of bad guys? Can you rewire a fucking main frame?

949
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah, Gwen asks can you fight with the

950
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 3: grace of a skilled dancer or something like that. So

951
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 3: she's all about, like this what appears to be like

952
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 3: a very feminine fight style, which we've talked about another episode.

953
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 3: I mean, it sucks, but all the same, the women

954
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 3: who do exist within the Spider Team are just as

955
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 3: competent of fighters as all.

956
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: The men, for sure, and they're doing equal work.

957
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: In equal work, Penny seems to have like a specialty

958
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 3: relating some kind.

959
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: Of computer tech girl. I'd be interested in what our

960
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: Japanese American listeners thought of her portrayal, because it did

961
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 1: seem like there were a lot of stereotypes being put into,

962
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: like she comes out of this like anime like world,

963
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: which I don't really know, Like I just like don't

964
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: have the perspective to have a strong opinion on that,

965
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: but I could understand why people would have a strong

966
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: opinion about the way that, Like this is the Japanese

967
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: American Spider Woman, and she's portrayed in a very particular way,

968
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: just like the American Spider Woman is portrayed in a

969
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: very particular way that I don't really care for.

970
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I am similarly curious as to what listeners

971
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: think about that, because I.

972
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, that is seems like a lazy choice.

973
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: But I also am I mean, I'm sure that that

974
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: is an adaptation issue as well. I'm reading in Wikipedia

975
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: dot org I ever heard of it that. I guess

976
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: that Penny Parker they definitely wanted an Asian American spider person.

977
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:53,280
Speaker 1: I guess they considered using another spider woman who's Korean

978
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: American named silk Okay, but they decided her powers weren't

979
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: as cool, and they went with Penny. Oh, it's like

980
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: bring them both it and them both stopping.

981
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, again, it's an adaptation. You can make changes from

982
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: the source materials.

983
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: I feel strongly about Spider Gwen with that, especially like

984
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: they did not it was not integral to the plot

985
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: for her to look move like that, right.

986
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly that said, she does save Miles and Peter

987
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 3: Parker from doc OC. She does in the beginning, but

988
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 3: then she needs to be saved at the end. She's

989
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 3: like about to fall into like the collider beam and

990
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: then Miles has to jump in after her and save her.

991
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 3: So but at least it's like a parody in terms

992
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: of like women not constantly being damseled.

993
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is like it's

994
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: so weird how things change slightly over time because the

995
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: way she's written, I'm like, this sounds like a woke

996
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: dude wrote this character, and they like tried their best.

997
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: They're like, we're not going to damsel her constantly, but

998
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: there is still like little things. So you're just like,

999
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: I just wanted to fix that where you know, like

1000
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: there there there is that implied flirtation between her and

1001
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: Miles the whole time, and thank god they didn't. I

1002
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 1: was really worried they're gonna try to shoehorn a kiss

1003
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: and at the end they don't but they it's they're

1004
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: setting up a kiss at some point in the future.

1005
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 3: Perhaps, yeah, although I mean the way.

1006
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: He talks to her for the first time is is

1007
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: because like he wants, like his uncle said, put your

1008
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: hand on a girl's shoulder, and like, oh, that's how

1009
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: we knew he was a villain. But he's like, put

1010
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: a hand in a girl's shoulder and like be smooth.

1011
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: And it's played in the movie like, oh, he's just

1012
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: an awkward teenager. But it's like, no, movie, come on,

1013
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: that's something that could have been so easily done differently

1014
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 1: or had her call him out more about it, because

1015
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: what happens in the movie is he got compowers now, right,

1016
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: So he's a little bit sticky sticky, and so he's

1017
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 1: trying to impress Gwen. He's hearing his thoughts out loud.

1018
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: He's freaked out. He remembers his uncle's advice to like

1019
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: put your hand on a girl's shoulder to be cool,

1020
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: and he does that to Gwen, and his hand sticks

1021
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: to her hair because of his spider com and then

1022
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: he basically starts whipping her around with his hand and

1023
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: she's like, oh fuck, and then you cut too. She

1024
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: has to get a haircut because it's sticky hands, and

1025
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: he says like, nice to meet you, and we're supposed

1026
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: to be like tea heat. But he doesn't apologize.

1027
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: And apologize for their coumb No, they don't.

1028
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: They just put it wherever they want.

1029
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 4: Literally do.

1030
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: It's disgusting. It stops now. But I mean, and he

1031
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: never asks to put his hand on her shoulder, and

1032
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: I think if you had, she probably wouldn't have said yes, right,

1033
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: I mean, based on that conversation.

1034
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is.

1035
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: There's a whole scene where Uncle Aaron is basically teaching

1036
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: Miles how to, you know, give what's probably usually an

1037
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: unwanted touch to his peers and the.

1038
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: Process of wearing down that is sort of being described.

1039
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, we can see that as ooh, that's gross.

1040
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: That's a gross thing to teach a young boy.

1041
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1042
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 3: I guess the fact that it ends horribly is.

1043
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: But it doesn't though, because she still wants to be

1044
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: his friend and they still end up being like BFFs

1045
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: and he never has to apologize, and I just feel

1046
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: like it's not the worst thing in the world. But

1047
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: he doesn't apologize, and she ends up like having a

1048
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: crush on him.

1049
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 3: Anyways, I don't think she has a crush on him.

1050
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 3: I think she like sets some pretty clear boundaries of like.

1051
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 3: But I'm also like really bad at identifying romance when

1052
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 3: I see it, because I would be.

1053
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 4: Really surprised if they made another one of these movies

1054
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 4: and that didn't continue and intensify.

1055
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 3: I would be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen, because

1056
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that is I think that is probably

1057
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 3: the way it's being set up. But also I would

1058
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 3: argue that the language that they use is like, I

1059
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 3: don't really do friends anymore, and he's like, well, if

1060
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 3: you decide to do friends again, like I could open

1061
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: up a spot for you.

1062
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: Like it's always in terms of he like accepts the boundary. Yeah,

1063
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I think that like saying

1064
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: that their relationship isn't flirtatious in nature like it so is.

1065
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 3: At the beginning, Yes, I would, I feel like, I

1066
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 3: don't know, toward the end, I feel like it's strictly platonic.

1067
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 3: But again, I'm maybe just.

1068
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: Not reading that right. I guess I just disagree on that. Yeah,

1069
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: And I just think that that's a kind of a

1070
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: waste of Gwen's limited time on screen is having a flirtation.

1071
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: We've seen that in Spider Man a million times. Don't

1072
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: need to see it again. Didn't need her to. I mean,

1073
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: I guess they both rescue each other, so it kind

1074
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: of evens out. But I just wanted a little bit

1075
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: more for the way Gwen is portrayed, and then for uh,

1076
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: for Penny Parker, just to see more for I feel

1077
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: like you see the least from her out of everyone,

1078
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: her and Noir.

1079
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you sort of see the least of well, the

1080
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 3: three like Spider people who are introduced later on, I'd

1081
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 3: say they're all equal parts. Not that important, right, But

1082
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: Penny's computer friend breaks at some point, Like.

1083
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: I don't care, but I'm sad.

1084
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah it did. The movie did make it seem like, look,

1085
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: how sad we all are at this, and we're like, well,

1086
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 3: we didn't really get to know Penny's character, So I'm

1087
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: not very emotionally affected by.

1088
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: That, right.

1089
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does mean that the one woman who is

1090
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 3: a person of color who belongs to the Spider Gang

1091
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 3: doesn't does get much attention paid.

1092
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: To her, right, So that's the Spider team, that's it.

1093
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 3: And it's also I mean, I was reminded of The

1094
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 3: Avengers in this where there is like an ensemble team

1095
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 3: of superheroes, but the men are largely driving the story.

1096
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 3: The women don't have their own movie. This is Miles's movie,

1097
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 3: and you know, hopefully maybe we'll get off like a

1098
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 3: Penny Parker spin off or a Gwen's Stacy spin off,

1099
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 3: but maybe.

1100
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: I mean, but the main focus of the friendship inside

1101
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: of this Spider team is Peter Parker and Miles Morales. Yes,

1102
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: that is the core friendship. And I think if we

1103
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: look at the friendship between Peter Parker and Miles Morales

1104
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: and the friendship between Gwen Stacy and Miles Morales, there

1105
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: are some gendered differences, but the friend I mean, the

1106
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: friend of between Peter and Miles, Like, I don't really

1107
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: have any issue with it. I think it's like a

1108
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: cool example of things I wish we saw more in

1109
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: like female driven narratives of mentorship because that is like

1110
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: the key to anything happening is and so it is

1111
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: cool to see it, like both Peter Parker's take on

1112
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: Miles as a you know, student kind of in this

1113
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: like almost karate kid kind of way of like they

1114
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: teach him the ways of the Spider and the comwebs,

1115
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: and they sort of form that teacher mentor relationship, and

1116
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: then you get the natural end of that relationship, which

1117
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: is like the student has exceeded the powers of the

1118
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: teacher and the teacher must learn to let go.

1119
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 4: And then he does, and he goes back to being

1120
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 4: fixed Spider Man in normal Spider Man world or I

1121
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 4: guess original Spider Man world.

1122
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 3: I mean, well, that is weird because he goes back

1123
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 3: to a world where Coca Cola is called Coca cola.

1124
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 3: The world that Miles lives in is called Coca Soda.

1125
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 3: So it's like, it's not quite our universe.

1126
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: It's it's a little bit.

1127
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 3: There's also a Seth Rogan movie. I don't know if

1128
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 3: you caught that, but they're all right when all the

1129
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 3: Spider people like bounce into Times Square from their respect dimensions.

1130
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: Seth Rogen exists in every multiverse.

1131
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 3: S post her for a movie called Hold Your Horses,

1132
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 3: and then it says like starring Seth.

1133
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: Rogen, glad that Seth Rogan got an appearance in his

1134
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: five hundredth movie this year. I'm exhausted.

1135
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,919
Speaker 3: Anyway, Let's take another break and we will come right back,

1136
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 3: and we are back.

1137
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: Can we talk about Octavius? Yeah? I liked her. We

1138
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: don't really know that much about her personally. Her friends

1139
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: call her live, her friends call her live. That's basically always.

1140
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, she's an ambitious woman in stem who hates

1141
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,919
Speaker 1: Spider Man, which I think we're sort of just taking

1142
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: it face value because we're like, oh, Doc Kok always

1143
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: hates Spider Man. Where uh if we go to the

1144
01:02:54,840 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: alpha Molina interpretation please of Doc Cok. You know, it's,

1145
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm not saying that Catherine Hahn did,

1146
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: but you know, the golden standard has been said.

1147
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: Sure, and no one can reach it except for our.

1148
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: Except for letting him reprise the role. Right. But I

1149
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: do think that there is a distinct difference, and maybe

1150
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: there just wasn't the real estate and the filmmakers are

1151
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: kind of assuming, like, well, you know, he's you know

1152
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: or she in this case like Doc Cock cakee spider Man.

1153
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 3: Duh.

1154
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: But but in Spider Man two two thousand and four,

1155
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: we find out explicit reasons why Docock hates Spider Man,

1156
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: and there is more of a relationship between Doc Cock

1157
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: and Spider Man, and we find out about Doc Cock's

1158
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: personal life. Yeah, sort and a kind of like fridging

1159
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: in a definitely friging narrative of his wife. His wife

1160
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: gets killed and he, you know, he's tortured by his

1161
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: own technology, and he's possessed by his own technology, and

1162
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: there's there's just a lot there, beautifully. And while I

1163
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 1: like Olivia Octavius, she fills the role a villain needs

1164
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: to fill, I don't.

1165
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: She's not characterize nearly as much as like fisk Is

1166
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 3: or as you know, or ass doc oc. But I

1167
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,439
Speaker 3: guess or is the or is what is the name

1168
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 3: of the uncle villain the Prowler?

1169
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: The Prowler. I feel like there is a version where

1170
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: you can almost write Octavius out of this version. The

1171
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: reason she needs to be there is because she has

1172
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: the technology to build the fucking whatever that makes the multiverse.

1173
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: But outside of that, what purpose does she serve in

1174
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 1: this world besides to carry out the scientific task? Because

1175
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: I feel like Prowler gets all the parts of the

1176
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: of a villain that we really like, which is like

1177
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: personal connection to the protagonist, a struggle between the two

1178
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: of them, like things they have in common, things they

1179
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: don't have in common, and that just doesn't exist for

1180
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: octavious at all. We're just like dococ hate Spider Man,

1181
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: and so she hates all the Spider Man.

1182
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I feel like that there is I guess

1183
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 3: we're just we're so used to doc Cock being like

1184
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 3: a crucial player in the Spider Verse because of what

1185
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 3: we've seen in Spider Man two. In this thing, she

1186
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 3: carries out that very specific function of having created the

1187
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 3: collider and that's all we But the.

1188
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 1: Other two villains, we know a lot about their personal life. Fisk,

1189
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: we know his wife, yeah, and his son and how

1190
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: he lost them, an ego and all that shit, and

1191
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: he's a big square and he's sad. We know all that.

1192
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: We get that in the flashback sequence with Probably. We

1193
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: know who he is to the protagonist. We know why

1194
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: this relationship is difficult and why it's so sad to

1195
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: lose him. But it's I feel like they kind of

1196
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: were like all female rubit of doc Cog and then

1197
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: just sort of didn't do anything with it, Like we

1198
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: don't know anything about.

1199
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 3: Her, well, we don't know anything about I don't know

1200
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 3: this is a name Scorpion or something. There's another villain

1201
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 3: who's like in the Bad Guy Gang. We know next

1202
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 3: to nothing about and then like the Green Goblin, we

1203
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 3: don't know. I think it feels like she is just

1204
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 3: sort of like an ancillary character who is familiar to us,

1205
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 3: so we're like, oh, we know her. I mean, I

1206
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 3: know what you're saying.

1207
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: And I just feel like it's kind of gender swap

1208
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: be to make the move of gender swapping a character

1209
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: and then not doing anything with it. Sure, especially if an.

1210
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 3: Original character was so deeply characterized, Like it almost feels

1211
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 3: like a we gender swapped it so you wouldn't see

1212
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 3: it coming kind of thing. It did feel like that,

1213
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 3: like kind of that corny where it's be twist where

1214
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 3: they're like the like I mean, if we go if

1215
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 3: you go further back and enough, like the doctor was

1216
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 3: a woman like that kind of like you're supposed to

1217
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 3: be like, oh, that's not Alfred Moleyna. I assume well

1218
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 3: that there's a line in the movie where Peter Parker

1219
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,919
Speaker 3: is God, this fucking is so distracting, its relentless Yeah,

1220
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 3: where Peter Parker is like laying out the plan whenever

1221
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 3: they get to alchem X, and he's like, all right,

1222
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 3: step one infiltrate the lab, step two, find the leads.

1223
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 3: They do do that? And then Myles is like, that

1224
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 3: was like the lady and the scientists.

1225
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 4: Oh cool.

1226
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 3: He's like, I need to re examine my personal biases

1227
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 3: because you just assumed that the scientist would be a man,

1228
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 3: didn't you, Peter Well, I.

1229
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: Mean, to be fair, and the Jake Johnson Peter Parker

1230
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: universe doc Cock is Alfred Molina. Uh so we have

1231
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: to assume that that cartoon spider Man knows Alfred Willina

1232
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: personally and maybe even saw him performed.

1233
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean probably, yeah, probably, Yeah.

1234
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: I mean I don't really have anything to say about

1235
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: the Doccock character other than like it was cool that

1236
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: they you know, like, I don't think there's any ethical

1237
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: issue with them gender swapping that character. It just felt

1238
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: like it was done in lieu of you know, she's

1239
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: supposed to be a more prominent villain than the Scorpion guy, Like,

1240
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: we don't know anything. I feel like we almost don't

1241
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 1: know anything about the Scorpion guy kind of for a reason.

1242
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: But you know, she's the first villain that we really meet, yeah,

1243
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: in Earnest, and a big deal is made of her

1244
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: reveal and then we just don't And then my friends call.

1245
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: Me live right. Yeah. Well, more a little more on

1246
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 3: that is that we've talked in various other episodes on

1247
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 3: action movies where there seems to be a trend where

1248
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 3: men who are usually the heroes, the action heroes, when

1249
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 3: they're fighting, there's usually not women for them to fight.

1250
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 3: They're usually fighting other men. Yeah, and if they are

1251
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 3: fighting women, they're always like, can I hit a woman,

1252
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 3: even if she's trying to kill me? And so we've

1253
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 3: had different discussions on various episodes about that there tends

1254
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,640
Speaker 3: to be this thing. It's like, well, so that we

1255
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 3: don't have to like even broach this subject, Let's just

1256
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 3: make sure that men are only fighting men in this movie, Doc,

1257
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 3: Dog poses a serious threat. You know, she is trying

1258
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 3: to kill the Spider people. Yeah, she has these mechanical

1259
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 3: arms that can cause a lot of damage, and we

1260
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 3: understand that she's a dangerous adversary. We see men fighting her,

1261
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 3: punching her in the face, you know, like.

1262
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: And it not being a gender thing. It's being a fight,

1263
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:24,719
Speaker 1: right movie.

1264
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that is cool and the way and in

1265
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 4: sort of in contrast to our annoyance with how Gwen's

1266
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 4: fighting is stylized, uh doc doc stylizing isn't you know

1267
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 4: femed up?

1268
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: No, And anyway, Nora is her costume. She's basically wearing

1269
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 1: the same thing that icon Alfred Molina war.

1270
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 3: I mean a long coat along a trench coat.

1271
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, Doc Dog wears a trench coat. That's cannon.

1272
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: If you don't like it, watch another movie. I don't

1273
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: like to say it's a trench coat movie. Yeah. I

1274
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: just wish that there was more there for her. We

1275
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: just we just don't know how how Doc Hawk feels

1276
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 1: about Miles Morales. We just know that she hates the

1277
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: entity that is Spider. She'll she'll kill any Spider person.

1278
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 3: So I did the prejudice there against spider people?

1279
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: Why are we talking about this? What is going on

1280
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: with the octopi and the spiders? They both got a legs? God?

1281
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 3: Maybe that she's like, I'm the only eight leg eight

1282
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:34,560
Speaker 3: leg yeah, so screw.

1283
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 1: Us A wild storyline.

1284
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1285
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 5: So, I just.

1286
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 3: I just only want that movie where it's like octopus

1287
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 3: legs get along.

1288
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: That's a good I.

1289
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 3: Mean, plenty of two legged people can't get along.

1290
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: So wow, Caitlyn Deep a birthday lesson, a birthday lesson

1291
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: from our had it into her Jesus years, she started

1292
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: to really impart some I'm thirty bitch, I'm thirty three.

1293
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: You really have to start giving some christ like insights this.

1294
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 3: Year, Oh my god. Cool.

1295
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: Anyway, Aunt May was one of my favorite surprises in

1296
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: the movie of Like, it's hard not to be critical

1297
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,799
Speaker 1: of the way that character is written in the original

1298
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 1: story where she is just a nice old lady and

1299
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: we love that for her, but she's completely weak. She's

1300
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: i think in multiple movies she is damsel.

1301
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, stolen by you know, captured by the villain.

1302
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: She's damseled by by Alfred Molina.

1303
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 4: No.

1304
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: He has that great anecdote about that scene where I

1305
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: guess they were on set and he was holding her

1306
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 1: in his claw and she's, you know, like the actress

1307
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: was older, and she was like kind of uncomfortable and

1308
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: kind of annoyed, and she just like turned to him

1309
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 1: and she's just like, you know, I went to Juliard

1310
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh, I'm sorry, which is really funny.

1311
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, she's constantly damseled and or just

1312
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 3: sort of like oblivious a lot of the time, where

1313
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 3: she doesn't see why aren't you home?

1314
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: And is so is so I mean even if you

1315
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 1: compare her to Uncle Ben in the Samaraimi movies, like

1316
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: Uncle Ben was at least cogent and knew what was

1317
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: going on, but like aunt May always needed Peter's help,

1318
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: whether it was financial, whether it was to save her life,

1319
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: like she was very rarely.

1320
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 3: Well, uncle Ben dies before or anything happens.

1321
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: But I mean, we get to know Uncle Ben a

1322
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: little bit in the first movie where he's he is

1323
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: like very masculine, and it seems more involved in Peter's

1324
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: like formation than Aunt May is, or that's what's like implied.

1325
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: And then ann May seems sort of like and there

1326
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: are moments where she gets to, you know, do her thing,

1327
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 1: but you know, she's a grieving wife, she's a maternal caretaker,

1328
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 1: and she's constantly damseled. But in this version Watch Out Baby,

1329
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: she's a scientist who makes spider weapons, and that is great.

1330
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, I almost didn't really need to know that

1331
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: much more cause it and you get that cool moment

1332
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: where in aunt May's universe Peter Parker's dad and in

1333
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: Peter Parker's universe, Aunt May is dead, so they're both

1334
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 1: seeing each other but not and you're like, oh, that's nice.

1335
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 1: And then she's like, anyways, Spider Lab, Yeah, she.

1336
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 3: Knows exactly what's gone. She's like, let me guess you're

1337
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 3: from another dimension. Let's go, let's deal with this shit.

1338
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 4: She's almost like fucking Michael Caine and Batman, where she's

1339
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 4: just like badass older.

1340
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 1: Person who has all the gear. Mm hmm, what is

1341
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 1: his name?

1342
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,440
Speaker 3: The butler Alfred Alfred, not to be confused with Alfred Molina.

1343
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: We should do the Batman movies at some point. That

1344
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 1: would be fucking what a trip that would be.

1345
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: Oh I should have mentioned this earlier. But in the

1346
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 3: newer reboot of Spider Man with Tom Holland, the version

1347
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 3: of Aunt May that we see in those movies is

1348
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 3: she's hot. That's her thing. She's played by Marissa Tommy,

1349
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 3: and it's important that you know that she's hot and

1350
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 3: that is I like.

1351
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: This choice way that I got. Sometimes with these movies,

1352
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: like superhero movies in particular, you can just like hear

1353
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: the executive focus groups just like just like totally miss

1354
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: really like no, no, no, what if I May? What

1355
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: if you are a fucker? You're like, no, that's what

1356
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: are you talking about. There's so few roles for older

1357
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: women Anyways, I loved Lily Tomlin's Aunt Ma character totally,

1358
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 1: yet like she's not a main character, not a lot

1359
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: of attention is drawn to her, I think for plot reasons,

1360
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: but they just like that's good adaptation. Is like take

1361
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,799
Speaker 1: a character that people are familiar with and like turning

1362
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 1: them up and modernizing them and making them cool and

1363
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: useful to the plot. Yes, so I liked that.

1364
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 4: Agree, Mary Jane's there, she's still his wife.

1365
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: In this way.

1366
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we don't see a ton of her.

1367
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 1: What happened to her theater career?

1368
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Ah, she is a fucking Fisk Tower at

1369
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 3: that benefit dinner, and it's like, can't you see that

1370
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,200
Speaker 3: that guy is mean?

1371
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like you were Spider Man.

1372
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 3: That would be like bouse, that would be like if

1373
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 3: she went.

1374
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 1: To like Donald Trump Trump from Tower House. So yeah,

1375
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 1: she's kind of I mean, it makes sense that she's sidelined.

1376
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 1: But but there there is a version of that character

1377
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:45,560
Speaker 1: where they could have done something cool with her like

1378
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 1: they did with Aunt May and didn't just present her

1379
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 1: as like grieving lady with nice hair.

1380
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,839
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll see some of that in school perhaps.

1381
01:15:56,200 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: So, I mean, you don't hire Zoe Kravitz for no reason, right, right,

1382
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: She's great.

1383
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 3: I love her well. I think that was about all

1384
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 3: I had to say about one of my new favorite movies.

1385
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 1: I thought this movie is an absolute blast and is

1386
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: some of the best, the best you're gonna get in

1387
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: terms of representation in a modern movie. It's I thought

1388
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: it was weird that there wasn't any space made for

1389
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: a queer character where there are so many characters. It's

1390
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 1: not a particular I mean, it's not a romantic movie,

1391
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: but it would have. It just seems like, I mean,

1392
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: if there's future installments, this is a very inclusive movie,

1393
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: and that's in the DNA of what the movie is,

1394
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: so like, you know, make a.

1395
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 3: Little more sure.

1396
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:46,640
Speaker 4: Oh.

1397
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 3: That reminds me though. One of the very few things

1398
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 3: that we do know about MJ in this universe is

1399
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 3: that she voted for Docopher Peter be In addition to that,

1400
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 3: at least for Peter B. Parker's the MJ. Johnson Jake Johnson.

1401
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 3: She wants children, so she's given a very like right

1402
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 3: and then maternal boring, and he's like, and that's why

1403
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 3: our marriage fell apart, because I wasn't ready to have kids.

1404
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 3: And then by the end, He's like, wait a minute,

1405
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 3: I'm proud of Miles Morales. Maybe I do want children.

1406
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 3: Oh my god, my spider come loaded. Let's make Spiner

1407
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 3: me and you know, having children is great. Let's perpetuate

1408
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 3: the species. But that's the real thing that we know about.

1409
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 3: We don't need any more white women who voted for

1410
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 3: Donald Trump reproducing. Okay, thank you, but yeah, other than that,

1411
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 3: it does a fairly good job, at least compared to

1412
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 3: the Spider Man franchise as a.

1413
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: Whole knocking down the apartment.

1414
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 3: They are hurting someone. I do not know what they're

1415
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 3: doing there. Again, listeners, apologies if this has been an

1416
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 3: annoying episode to listen to because of the machinery that's

1417
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 3: happening next door. But there's simply nothing we can do

1418
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 3: about it.

1419
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 1: There's nothing we can do about it. This is listen.

1420
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 4: Tell your friends to keep plunging to the Matreon and

1421
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 4: we'll get a mansion o liven.

1422
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, we'll all find some secluded house in the

1423
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 3: where you get.

1424
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: A tree house. You get a really nice tree house

1425
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: that seems realistic. Someday I think I want I want

1426
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 1: to We need to just dig. They don't charge to dig.

1427
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 1: It does sound like a crazy conspiracy went wild. We

1428
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: said that can't we just need to buy a five

1429
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: foot square foot digging all right? Well that was that

1430
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: was that, Hey, what are under other people's houses? Right?

1431
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: And then just like they don't know?

1432
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1433
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 1: I've been reading too much about.

1434
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 3: The Denver Airport zoned for that if I don't know, if.

1435
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 4: They can you legislate, yes you can, Okay, but.

1436
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: You know I think that I'm gonna start tunneling. Yeah,

1437
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 1: you're gonna get Everyone should look up conspiracy theories about

1438
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: the Denver Airport. I can't stop thinking about it. Yeah,

1439
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 1: there's tunnels. Wow, yep.

1440
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 3: Hey does this movie past the Bechdel.

1441
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 1: Tast I thought it came close, but I don't think

1442
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: it does. Do Gwen and Dot ok ever exchange words?

1443
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 6: Not that I.

1444
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 3: Noticed, And Gwen and Penny Parker also, I do not

1445
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 3: believe interact right. The only conversation that I noticed was

1446
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 3: where Aunt Ma says, oh, geez, are those sweatpants referring

1447
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 3: to Peter Parker's sweatpants, and then Gwen says, yep, that's

1448
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 3: what they are. But they're talking about Peter Parker's clothes.

1449
01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: Peter Parker's body.

1450
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 3: It does kind of objectifying him, which actually is like

1451
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 3: that's what we should be doing.

1452
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: It is it is nuts to me that this could

1453
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: be that is so like progressive fails this very easy

1454
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: metrics and this is not what the kind of movie

1455
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: where you're like, well, but like in this case, I

1456
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 1: don't think the Bechdel test is a flawed metric at all.

1457
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 1: We have a lot and I think that that does

1458
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 1: speak to how underdeveloped some of these female characters are, right,

1459
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 1: and how one dimensional they are, and how they're I mean,

1460
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 1: I feel like the main thing with Bechtel, with the

1461
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 1: Bechtel test is that it really if it doesn't pass,

1462
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 1: it identifies how a movie is using its female characters.

1463
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,600
Speaker 1: It's either that they're not there, like Star Wars the

1464
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 1: first one, or it's if you have a lot of

1465
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: women and it's still not passing the Bechdel test, then

1466
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: they probably only exist in relation to the male characters,

1467
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: or they're tokenized. And I think that that is kind

1468
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 1: of how this movie works, where Gwen and doc Oc

1469
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: are active characters that are within most scenes with them

1470
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: the only woman present yea, or there's a lot of

1471
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 1: women who exist only in relation to men. You've got

1472
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: miles of Mom, You've got Fisks, his wife, You've got

1473
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: I don't really know where Penny Parker.

1474
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 3: I mean, she's just we just don't really know anything

1475
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 3: about her, right, you would think she and Gwen would

1476
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 3: at least have some small exchange. I mean, they're all

1477
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 3: working together toward the same goal. And then you would

1478
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 3: also think that Aunt May and like, at least Gwen

1479
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 3: would talk a little bit more, or May and or I.

1480
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 1: Mean Parker gwent Yeah, because it's like Gwen. I think

1481
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 1: Gwen and Aunt May. That is like the scene where

1482
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:38,839
Speaker 1: two women are in the same scene for the longest

1483
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 1: and not fighting, so that there's plausible there'd be some

1484
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: dialogue between them. Yeah, and it just simply doesn't happen. Also,

1485
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: there if you run the numbies on this progressive movie,

1486
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 1: only twenty one percent of cast and crew members were

1487
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,759
Speaker 1: women and eleven percent of key cast and crew members

1488
01:21:58,880 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: were people of color.

1489
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: Shit shit indeed, Well it goes to show that we

1490
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 3: still have a lot of work to do. Yeah.

1491
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: I do encourage our listeners and and us because sometimes

1492
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: I think we slip on this to also be looking

1493
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:18,560
Speaker 1: at who is behind the camera because this movie is

1494
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,560
Speaker 1: a very male dominated production crew and very white dominated

1495
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: production crew, and the cast is fairly diverse, but behind

1496
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: the scenes not much diversity. You got Amy Pascal and

1497
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 1: her emails which identify as female, so unfortunately there are

1498
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: still not a lot of people of color or women

1499
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: in key roles. This is still majority white guys. It

1500
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: should be said that the movie is directed by three dudes.

1501
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 1: One of the directors, Peter Ramsey, is a black man,

1502
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: and also it was the first black director to ever

1503
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,799
Speaker 1: be nominated for Best Animated Feature.

1504
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 3: Oh cool, which is really cool.

1505
01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, percentage wise still pretty I mean,

1506
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, that's pretty abysmallybaut eleven percent people

1507
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: of color, especially in this in the first like Avro

1508
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: Lutino s Spider Man Kurt, like eleven percent. It's shit higher, yeah,

1509
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: I think.

1510
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:21,560
Speaker 3: And hello, it's Caitlin and Jamie from the Future.

1511
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 5: We've learned so much.

1512
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 3: So we wanted to redo our nipple ratings for this

1513
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 3: movie because again, we've we've grown, we've learned, and when

1514
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 3: we originally gave the nipple rating for this movie, it

1515
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 3: was before we were taking like a more fully intersectional

1516
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 3: approach to the nipple rating. So I would like to

1517
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:54,280
Speaker 3: amend the ratings that we gave.

1518
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 5: And I wouldn't, but fine, no, I, I uh yes,

1519
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 5: this this is the right thing to do.

1520
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: And also it's just.

1521
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:06,480
Speaker 5: Another time to write about the Spider Verse because it comes.

1522
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 3: Out so soon, Yes, indeed, and so we are here

1523
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 3: to give our updated nipple ratings. The Nipple scale, of

1524
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 3: course being our perfect, amazing, incredible metric.

1525
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 5: Iconic nothing like it, never done before, won't be done.

1526
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 3: Again truly, and it works like this. We rate on

1527
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 3: a scale of zero to five nipples based on looking

1528
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 3: at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. As such. Again,

1529
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 3: I deeply love this movie. It is one of my

1530
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 3: favorites of all time. It has so much going for it.

1531
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 3: Superhero movies are usually like the most popular and highest

1532
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 3: grossing movies that come out in any year, but they

1533
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 3: still so often center whiteness and center men, and it's still.

1534
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 5: Like very much out of the norm. That not to

1535
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 5: be the case, which is not the fault of this movie.

1536
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 5: But I remember the original conversation around this movie being.

1537
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 4: Like, wow, can you imagine, And at the time many

1538
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 4: people could not, which is depressing.

1539
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 3: And before this movie came out, I remember there was

1540
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 3: a lot of discourse about like, can we have a

1541
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 3: black Spider Man? And Donald Glover was in the running,

1542
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 3: and then that didn't happen, to the upset of many people.

1543
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 3: But studios are cowards and they didn't do it anyway.

1544
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,560
Speaker 3: So this movie coming out in twenty eighteen felt like

1545
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 3: a big win at the time, and it still feels

1546
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 3: like a big win. And I love it, and I

1547
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 3: hope to see more diversity in obviously all movies, including

1548
01:25:55,960 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 3: super hero movies. It is is a story about fathers

1549
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:06,720
Speaker 3: and sons, but not against Yeah, it's not against the law.

1550
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 3: Just because it happens every single day doesn't mean it's

1551
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 3: always a bad thing. And what I appreciate about this

1552
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 3: one is that the main arc of the like father

1553
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 3: son subplot is two male characters needing to learn to

1554
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:26,560
Speaker 3: open up and express their emotions to each other and

1555
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:31,879
Speaker 3: to show affection and vulnerability with each other. They obviously

1556
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 3: still have a ways to go on that journey, but

1557
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 3: it's nice to see that dynamic explored in a father

1558
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:42,800
Speaker 3: son relationship.

1559
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also likeciated that.

1560
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 4: I also like that by the end of the movie,

1561
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,640
Speaker 4: like their relationship is it isn't like Movie five of like,

1562
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 4: and their relationship is totally repaired and everything will be

1563
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 4: great from here on out. Like it's incremental and I'm

1564
01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 4: excited to see how that you know what motion is

1565
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 4: in future installments.

1566
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,599
Speaker 3: Right, And it seems based on the trailers. Again, at

1567
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:08,639
Speaker 3: the time of this recording, we have not yet seen

1568
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:12,280
Speaker 3: across the Spider Verse, but it seems to get getting

1569
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 3: great reviews. It seems like women do play a more

1570
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 3: integral and active role in this movie. Based on the trailers,

1571
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 3: it feels like there might be more of a focus

1572
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 3: on Miles's relationship with his mother yay, which is one

1573
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 3: of the gripes.

1574
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, your number one criticism of this movie.

1575
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 3: Yes, so that's exciting. Seems like we get even more

1576
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 3: female Spider people in this one, Spider Women. Seems like

1577
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 3: you get more female villains in this So it just

1578
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 3: feels like women are more meaningfully included in this movie

1579
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 3: that's coming out. I'm excited. But all of this in mind,

1580
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to give the movie four nipples, which is

1581
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 3: a pretty significant bump from what I had given it originally.

1582
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,600
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just because this movie keeps growing on me.

1583
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 3: It's not perfect. There are some as we discussed, there

1584
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,360
Speaker 3: are some things, but it's nice to see that.

1585
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,639
Speaker 4: I mean, and again we haven't seen it, but yeah,

1586
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 4: I noticed that as well, where it seems like the

1587
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 4: franchise is becoming even more inclusive as it continues, and

1588
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:26,600
Speaker 4: I'm excited about that.

1589
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: Who are you giving you nipples to?

1590
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna spread my nipples out between Miles, his mom, Spider,

1591
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 3: Gwen and you know what, Spider Ham. Wow, it's a nipple.

1592
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:42,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, iconic.

1593
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'll meet you at four and I'll leave it. Yeah,

1594
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 4: I'll meet you at four because I do. I mean,

1595
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,800
Speaker 4: I was revisiting this episode as well, and you know,

1596
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 4: points were made. I think that this movie's great strength

1597
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 4: is it's a beautiful, beautiful coming of age story that's inclusive.

1598
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:04,680
Speaker 4: It is like, this has nothing to do with the

1599
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 4: nipple scale, but it's like one of the most beautiful

1600
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:12,600
Speaker 4: animated movies ever made, truly, and I just love it

1601
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 4: very very much, and I think you put it very beautifully.

1602
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 4: I think the only other thing I would want to

1603
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 4: point out is behind the scenes stuff, and I know

1604
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 4: we talked about this in the original episode. I think

1605
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 4: there was more room for inclusivity behind the scenes this movie.

1606
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,719
Speaker 4: There are a lot of white guys behind the scenes,

1607
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 4: and it's very heavily men. And I actually I haven't

1608
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 4: checked out. I know that there's a new crop of

1609
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 4: directors for this.

1610
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,679
Speaker 5: Next installment, I think because directing one of these movies

1611
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 5: basically kills you.

1612
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1613
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 4: But and so I haven't looked into that. And I'm

1614
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 4: I guess, I guess, I suppose I'm excited about it.

1615
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 4: I don't know, whatever, No, but I really this movie

1616
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 4: is so beautiful.

1617
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 5: And as we now know, extremely re watchable, and I

1618
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:01,920
Speaker 5: think it's.

1619
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 4: Just like a great introduction to superhero movies for kids

1620
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 4: for sure. Yeah, I'm so excited for the new one.

1621
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:11,480
Speaker 4: So four nipples.

1622
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 5: Let's see.

1623
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:16,800
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give one to Miles obviously, I'm gonna give

1624
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:17,639
Speaker 4: one to Spider Gwen.

1625
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 5: I'll give one to Miles's mom.

1626
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 4: I'll give my last one to Lily Tomlin on May

1627
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 4: because I love Lily tom When not May.

1628
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 3: She's great, she's great. Also, I feel like we should

1629
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 3: give an honorary nipple to Alfred Molina.

1630
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,439
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, let's toss in another one. Figure it out.

1631
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:36,800
Speaker 4: Wikipedia page.

1632
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 1: And Yeah, that's us from the future.

1633
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 3: That was our unlocked episode on Spider Man into the

1634
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 3: Spider Verse. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope you enjoy the

1635
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 3: new movie. If you're planning to see it, I know

1636
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 3: I am gonna see it six times. I saw the

1637
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 3: first one in the theaters five times, and I have

1638
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:00,400
Speaker 3: to break my record.

1639
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 1: You get to top it. You can top that. I

1640
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: just know it. I can't wait to see it. I'm

1641
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: going to see it.

1642
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 4: With my brother this week.

1643
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, thank you so much for listening. Again.

1644
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed that Looser Discussion, that is an unlocked

1645
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 1: Patreon aka Patreon episode, which you can go sign up

1646
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 1: for right now over at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast.

1647
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: That's five bucks a month and you get access not

1648
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 1: just to two new episodes a month with Kaitlin and

1649
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,759
Speaker 1: myself in the Looser Discussion format. You'll also get access

1650
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: to nearly one hundred and fifty back catalogs because we've

1651
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 1: had the Patreon for for many years.

1652
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 3: Wow brag us Wow wow wow. And you can find

1653
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,559
Speaker 3: our merch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast.

1654
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 3: Grab a T shirt or whatever you want.

1655
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 4: To do.

1656
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: Follow your heart. We trust you, and we can't wait

1657
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 1: to talk to you about the next Spider Verse movie.

1658
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 3: Wee see next week. Bye,