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Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on deep cover. In the mid nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: the FBI took down a massive drug smuggling ring which

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Speaker 1: was importing huge loads of marijuana from Colombia into the

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Speaker 1: United States with the help of agent Ned Timmins. The

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Speaker 1: three ring leaders were caught and imprisoned. Case closed, or

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Speaker 1: so it appeared, until one of the ringleaders, Stephen Kaylish,

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Speaker 1: revealed that there was a silent partner, and he was

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Speaker 1: none other than General Manuel Noriega, the ruler of Panama

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Speaker 1: and a top CIA asset. This prompted congressional hearings and

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Speaker 1: an indictment. Meanwhile, Ned was still busy at the FBI.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to all of us undercover work, Ned still had

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Speaker 1: all minds of contacts in the drug world and they

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Speaker 1: were still paying off. In fact, he was getting even

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Speaker 1: deeper into the illegal drug trade. These are the people

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Speaker 1: that would have supplied the drugs to likely rich. There

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Speaker 1: are the people that controlled everything on the Earth coast

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Speaker 1: to Columbia. At one point, Ned pose as a buyer

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Speaker 1: and he busted a smuggler who was bringing in cocaine

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Speaker 1: and marijuana into the US. So another win for Ned,

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Speaker 1: and it also opened yet another door for him. Afterwards,

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Speaker 1: Neddie got a call from the smuggler's wife, a woman

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Speaker 1: from Colombia. We'll call her Simone. Simone reached out to

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Speaker 1: Ned because she wanted to help her husband. Basically, she

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Speaker 1: wanted to get his sentence reduced or get him moved

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Speaker 1: to a better prison. Simone had information to trade, so

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Speaker 1: she contact did Ned, hoping to make a deal. She

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Speaker 1: was connected with the biggest people in the cartels and

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Speaker 1: talked a good game. She knew what she was talking about,

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Speaker 1: she knew the right names. Ned was eager to work

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Speaker 1: Simone's connections, but he was also leary about messing with

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Speaker 1: the Colombians. I don't think twice at killing you the Colombians.

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Speaker 1: Anything can happen, you know. Remember you don't know anybody

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Speaker 1: but yourself. So Ned had his concerns, but he's still

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Speaker 1: interested in working with Simone. Seeing where her connections might

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Speaker 1: take him. He decided to ask his wife, Kathy Timmins

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Speaker 1: for help. At the time, Kathy was busy with her

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Speaker 1: own work at the FBI and she was pregnant with

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Speaker 1: their second child. So Ned said, I want you to

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Speaker 1: come down and meet her so that you know she

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Speaker 1: has someone that she can call as the backup person

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: as in here we go again. I mean she'd been

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Speaker 1: through this before, like when Ned came home with Toby Anderson,

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Speaker 1: the violent country western singer, and now this I always

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Speaker 1: was being introduced to his his informants or his co

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Speaker 1: operators as as like the backup person. You know, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't listed as the case agent or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I think it just gave Ned a feeling of you know,

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Speaker 1: and may and maybe he did it to try and

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Speaker 1: further show the the co operator you know that here's

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Speaker 1: here's someone else that you know has got your back.

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Speaker 1: So despite it all, Kathy agreed to meet Simone, Ned's

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Speaker 1: latest source at a hotel in Detroit. I went down

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Speaker 1: to the hotel and then met her, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she spoke briefly and he said, well, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you need anything, give me a call. You know that

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be working with Ned. But on the way home,

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Speaker 1: Cathy had second thoughts about the whole arrangement. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she was strikingly beautiful woman and now she's sitting here

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Speaker 1: with no husband, she's got no other connections. Besides, Ned,

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Speaker 1: it's not a not a good situation to have your

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Speaker 1: husband involved in. I mean, you can almost predict trouble.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jake Albern and this is deep Cover, our final

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Speaker 1: episode nineteen eighty nine. Yes, hey, is this is Jake.

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Speaker 1: How are you? I'm okay? Thank you? Can you're hear me? Okay?

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Speaker 1: That's Simone. There are a lot of details about her

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Speaker 1: story that I can't share with you. I need to

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Speaker 1: protect her identity. But here's what you need to know.

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Speaker 1: After meeting Ned, she started brainstorming with him about what

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Speaker 1: intel she could offer. She was still hoping to help

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Speaker 1: her husband, who at this point was in federal prison

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Speaker 1: in Michigan. Will please started conversations, a lot of conversation.

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Speaker 1: It was, as I said, a person that you could trust.

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Speaker 1: But she was scared about ratting on the cartels and

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Speaker 1: ultimately she got cold feet. It was too dangerous. So

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Speaker 1: I didn't know want to take one point, and this

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Speaker 1: meant she couldn't help her husband. But she actually kept

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Speaker 1: meeting with Ned, and I think one of those days

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Speaker 1: who were sitting in the restroom, i'll attracted to each other.

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Speaker 1: Simone says that she trusted Ned more than that that

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Speaker 1: he seemed like a hero to her. That's the word

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Speaker 1: she used, whoa because the way he moved, the way

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Speaker 1: he taught his security, he's self confident, how muchure he was,

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Speaker 1: and those were things in his personality that I was attracted.

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Speaker 1: Simone eventually told Ned that she was willing to connect

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Speaker 1: him with other sources. She knew another Columbian who needed

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Speaker 1: help and he was willing to talk. Simone even offered

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Speaker 1: to meet Ned in Venezuela and make the necessary introductions.

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Speaker 1: They spent a week down there together. Oh, Jake, it's

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Speaker 1: almost like the two of us were separated from the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, just sat her own, drank wine and talked

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Speaker 1: about other stuff. And well, just intelligence is beautiful, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean you walked through the airport whether and people

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Speaker 1: were running into pilings and walls and dusts staring at her.

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Speaker 1: You know. I spoke with another FBI agent who was

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Speaker 1: down in Venezuela with them. He told me that Simone

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Speaker 1: was beguiling. He said, quote, she didn't walk, she glided.

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Speaker 1: She was quite the beauty and she knew how to

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Speaker 1: use it too. This agent suspected that Ned and Simone

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Speaker 1: were getting a bit too close, but he didn't say anything,

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Speaker 1: in part because Ned was such a veteran at this

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Speaker 1: type of work. Ned and Simone did have an affair.

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Speaker 1: It actually started just a few months after they met.

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Speaker 1: It was like an escape, an escape from what, escape

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Speaker 1: from drug cases and FBI and and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: stress and whatever. It was a release. It was almost

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Speaker 1: like I didn't care anymore. What do you mean you

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Speaker 1: didn't care about what exactly? I was totally burned out

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Speaker 1: with the FBI and the stress of running big cases

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Speaker 1: like this and dealing with other divisions and other agencies,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's very complicated to work big cases

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Speaker 1: and abide by the rules and and all the legal

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Speaker 1: issues and FBI protocol and everything. It was just an escape.

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Speaker 1: I asked Simon if she ever felt pressured or coerced

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Speaker 1: by Ned. She said no, never, that their feelings were

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Speaker 1: mutual and her family adored Ned. I was really also

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Speaker 1: with me, was like, so he was sick. I know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All of that being said, Ned's affair created some serious problems. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: it was not good for his marriage and professionally well,

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Speaker 1: Ned was a federal agent. Someone was providing information to

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and Ned was supposed to be assessing the

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Speaker 1: value of her intel. Could she or her connections help

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Speaker 1: the US government or not? Now, NED couldn't really make

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Speaker 1: that call objectively. There was a conflict of interest and

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Speaker 1: a power and balance too. It's not too ethical, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't too honorable, Hannah. It just happened after it started.

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Speaker 1: Did you have a moment of like, oh shit, what

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Speaker 1: have I done? Kind of thing? Yeah, I mean you

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Speaker 1: always had thoughts that it's the wrong thing to do.

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Speaker 1: It's it's nothing you want to want to become public

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Speaker 1: er or whatever. You know. It was just kind of

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Speaker 1: spiraling out of control. I didn't know where it was

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Speaker 1: going to land. While all this was going on, Ned's

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Speaker 1: biggest case, the one that helps spark congressional hearings and

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Speaker 1: the indictment of Noriega, that case was still simmering. The

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Speaker 1: defendants in the case we're all serving time. Mister beach club,

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Speaker 1: the gentleman smuggler, and the grocery guy. They're just counting

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Speaker 1: the days and the weeks and the months until one

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Speaker 1: day in mid December of nineteen eighty nine, when something

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Speaker 1: weird happens. On that day, Stephen Kaylish, the gentleman smuggler

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Speaker 1: says he was thrown into solitary confinement. Well, solitary you

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Speaker 1: have no access to television, radio, I mean you get

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Speaker 1: a blanket, pillow, food, you don't have contact with other prisoners.

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Speaker 1: It's basically for protection. Stephen had been watching the news

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Speaker 1: for weeks and had an inkling that something big was

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Speaker 1: about to go down in Panama. You know, they've ratcheted

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Speaker 1: up this whole, this whole thing about Noriega and Panama.

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Speaker 1: It's in the news almost daily. Noriega's waving a fucking

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Speaker 1: machete around. I mean, I'm watching them just fall to pieces,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I mean the guy's office rocker. For

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Speaker 1: over a year, Noriega had been thumbing his nose at

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Speaker 1: the US, basically saying, you guys want me gone, but

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Speaker 1: you can't do anything about it. Remember, thanks in large

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Speaker 1: part to this investigation and Stephen Kaylish's account, Noriega had

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Speaker 1: been indicted as a drug trafficker, and it seemed like

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Speaker 1: this indictment was now fueling something bigger, like the US

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Speaker 1: might actually take action. In his novel, Ned writes about

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Speaker 1: how big a deal it would be if the US

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Speaker 1: could take down Noriega. Ned knew the very little of

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Speaker 1: what he was doing made any real difference in the

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Speaker 1: drug war. It was a cynicism that came with a territory.

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Speaker 1: As long as there was demand, there would be people

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Speaker 1: willing to run the risks of supply. As long as

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Speaker 1: twenty million Americans were smoking dope, there would be dope

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Speaker 1: in America. There would be cocaine and heroine, and for

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Speaker 1: the pill poppers, there would be crooked doctors and false prescriptions.

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Speaker 1: He knew that, but getting to a guy like Noriego

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Speaker 1: would make a difference. Down in Panama, Noriego was presenting

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Speaker 1: himself as the great defender of his country and its canal.

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Speaker 1: He delivered impassioned speeches, hyping his role as the hero,

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Speaker 1: almost like pr stunts, the way a promoter might hype

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Speaker 1: an upcoming fight between two heavyweights. And this is when

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Speaker 1: Noriega appeared, wielding a machette as he spoke to a crowd,

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Speaker 1: and eventually all of his taunts they hit home. With

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Speaker 1: President George Bush Senior. Part of the problem was optics

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Speaker 1: to the public. Bush sometimes came across as mild mannered

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Speaker 1: and even meek when he was running for president. Newsweek

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Speaker 1: even ran a cover story about Bush that would become

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Speaker 1: infamous called Fighting the whimp Factor. And now here was Noriega,

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Speaker 1: the uber alpha male, waiving his machete. Gradually tension mounted.

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Speaker 1: The US issued sanctions against Panama and tried pressuring Noriega

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Speaker 1: to step down. Noriega just dug in his heels. So

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Speaker 1: the stage was set, and then a group of Panamanian

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Speaker 1: soldiers opened fire on four off duty US servicemen. Good

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Speaker 1: evening every science an American military man was killed by

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Speaker 1: a Panamanian fruit Saturday night, President Bush and Panama's military dictator,

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Speaker 1: General Manuel Noriega, have been circling each other from a distance.

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Speaker 1: Bush addressed the nation and laid out the case for war.

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Speaker 1: Many attempts have been made to resolve this crisis through

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Speaker 1: diplomacy and negotiations. All were rejected by the dictator of Panama,

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Speaker 1: General Manuel Noriega, an indicted drug trafficker. They called the

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Speaker 1: invasion operation just cause it was a big undertaking, involving

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty six thousand US troops and three hundred aircraft.

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Speaker 1: During the fighting, twenty three US servicemen died, hundreds of

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Speaker 1: Panamenians were killed, maybe more. The exact death toll remains

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Speaker 1: in dispute. Some estimates are in the thousands. It's a

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Speaker 1: little stomach churning to think about the number of people

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Speaker 1: who died to capture a single man. And for a while,

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Speaker 1: Noriega himself was nowhere to be found, which back in

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Speaker 1: DC was rather awkward. I've been frustrated that he's been

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Speaker 1: in power this long, extraordinarily frustrated. The good news he's

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Speaker 1: out of power. The bad news he has not yet

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Speaker 1: been brought to justice. US forces eventually tracked down Noriega

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Speaker 1: hiding in the Vatican embassy. They tried to smoke Noriega

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Speaker 1: out by blasting rock music deafening volumes. I actually remember

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Speaker 1: watching this all unfold as a kid on TV. The

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Speaker 1: soldiers played songs like We're not going to take it

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Speaker 1: by Twisted Sister. US generals eventually called off the tactic

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Speaker 1: after a Vatican officials complained anyway. Noriega eventually turned himself

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Speaker 1: in and that was it. The last member of the

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Speaker 1: smuggling syndicate was in custody. After his capture, Noriega was

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Speaker 1: flown to Miami, where he went on trial. He was

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Speaker 1: found guilty and sentenced to forty years in prison on

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Speaker 1: eight counts of drug trafficking, money laundering, and racketeering. Officially,

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Speaker 1: that was the end of the story, neatly packaged with

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Speaker 1: a bow operation just cause, a righteous effort to take

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Speaker 1: down a drug trafficker. But I gotta tell you, like

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Speaker 1: so many people, I never really believe that this is

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Speaker 1: why the US invaded. So I talked with John Dingis,

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Speaker 1: a former MPR journalist who covered Noriega at the time.

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Speaker 1: He also wrote an excellent book on Noriega called Our

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Speaker 1: Man and Panama. I don't buy the theories that are

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Speaker 1: put forward of why the invasion was done other than

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Speaker 1: a raw exercise of US power. For John, there war

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Speaker 1: wasn't about drug trafficking charges or our desire to restore

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Speaker 1: democracy in Panama. I think it was a power decision

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Speaker 1: by George Bush, the fact that Noriega had defied him personally.

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Speaker 1: You don't fool around with the US government in the

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Speaker 1: way that Noriega was doing it. That's it the old

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Speaker 1: rules of the playground. A little guy acts out, the

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Speaker 1: big guy puts him in his place. It's a classic

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Speaker 1: gangster move. In the end, seems like what Ned Timmins

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Speaker 1: and Stephen Klish helped provide. Wasn't a motivation for war,

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Speaker 1: wasn't a cause? They just provided a convenient excuse when

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Speaker 1: we come back. A moment of reckoning for Ned, both

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Speaker 1: for his marriage and his career. Months before the invasion,

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Speaker 1: as the whole conflict between Bush and Noriego was still

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Speaker 1: heating up, Ned was facing problems of his own. He'd

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Speaker 1: been having an affair with his source, Simone, and he

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Speaker 1: was still working with her now down in Miami. At

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Speaker 1: some point he started to worry that his colleagues were

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Speaker 1: spying on him. Like he remembers this one day when

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Speaker 1: he was driving around. I was starving, so I whipped

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Speaker 1: around a few times and pulled into like a burger

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Speaker 1: king or something, and all of a sudden, here's what

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Speaker 1: I believe was an agent comes running through the alley

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Speaker 1: and prep radio fell out of his waistband and I

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00:19:04,916 --> 00:19:06,356
Speaker 1: look and I see him jump in a car and

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious FBI surveillance. Suddenly the paranoia that Ned felt

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Speaker 1: down in the Caymans kicked back in. There was a

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Speaker 1: supervisor in Miami. I strongly believed that, you know, he

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Speaker 1: when I'd come into Miami for the meetings, that he'd

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Speaker 1: have me surveiled. I would meet with Simone, but never,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was never an overnight stuff or anything.

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Speaker 1: I meet, whether he usually had somebody else with me, whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think he kind of felt something was

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Speaker 1: going on. Meanwhile, back in Detroit, Cathy gets a call

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Speaker 1: from Ned's boss. He'd been in touch with the supervisor

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Speaker 1: down in Miami. Apparently the guy who'd been watching Ned

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Speaker 1: and the supervisor in Miami had said that Ned was

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Speaker 1: in trouble and that they were pulling him in, and

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Speaker 1: that Ned was having an inappropriate relationship, a sexual relationship

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Speaker 1: with with the female operative, and that that Ned denied it,

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Speaker 1: but that they were going to be sending him home.

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Speaker 1: Kathy says she'd actually suspected what Ned had been up

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Speaker 1: to for some time. Kathy was an investigator, and a

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Speaker 1: good one. She'd found hotel matches in Ned's coat one

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Speaker 1: night and pieced together that he'd been visiting a hotel

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Speaker 1: where Simone was staying. You know, you can imagine it's

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Speaker 1: a typical married fight at that point. It's got nothing

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Speaker 1: really much to do with the FBI or his undercover work,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't have cared less about his undercover work

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Speaker 1: at that point, I just said, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to I don't want to talk to you about it.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't want you near me.

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Speaker 1: Then there is the issue of what would have happened

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Speaker 1: to Ned professionally, what the consequences might be for having

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Speaker 1: an affair with Simone. Typically, what you would do next

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Speaker 1: in the FBI is you start an investigation to find

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Speaker 1: out what may or may not have also been compromised.

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Speaker 1: On that case, I don't believe that they opened one

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Speaker 1: up on him because he basically came home and said

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Speaker 1: that he was going to resign. Ned says there was

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Speaker 1: no investigation. He says he came back from Miami and

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Speaker 1: resigned on his own accord. At the office in Detroit.

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Speaker 1: No one knew why Ned suddenly disappeared. Even his partner

287
00:21:36,196 --> 00:21:40,076
Speaker 1: Linnis then a Lavish's was mystified. I think everybody was

288
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Speaker 1: kind of scratching their heads. It was kind of a shocker, saying, gee,

289
00:21:43,716 --> 00:21:49,036
Speaker 1: what happened? Question was you know, I'm saying, literally thinking

290
00:21:49,116 --> 00:21:52,516
Speaker 1: back at it, nobody really knew. Was he terminated or

291
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Speaker 1: did he leave on his own? No, there was no

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00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:57,716
Speaker 1: real explanation as to why he was there. One day,

293
00:21:57,836 --> 00:22:01,596
Speaker 1: when the next day he's not. Officially, the FBI said

294
00:22:01,636 --> 00:22:04,196
Speaker 1: it wouldn't talk to me about Ned, but I did

295
00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:07,716
Speaker 1: speak with one of Ned's former supervisors from the early eighties.

296
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Speaker 1: He wasn't there when Ned resigned, but the way that

297
00:22:10,956 --> 00:22:13,796
Speaker 1: it all played out for Ned, it didn't really surprise him.

298
00:22:14,036 --> 00:22:17,396
Speaker 1: The supervisor told me that back then, in certain situations,

299
00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:21,956
Speaker 1: agents did sometimes just resigned to avoid a big, messy investigation.

300
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Speaker 1: He also told me that six years was a very

301
00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:29,596
Speaker 1: long time to do undercover work. At one point, I asked, Ned,

302
00:22:30,156 --> 00:22:32,676
Speaker 1: why didn't you just walk away before things got out

303
00:22:32,716 --> 00:22:35,956
Speaker 1: of control, like back when your first son was born.

304
00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:39,156
Speaker 1: I don't know if if you want to call it

305
00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:43,796
Speaker 1: an addiction, adrenaline addiction, or you know, whatever it was.

306
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Speaker 1: That's all I lived for was I mean, you know,

307
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Speaker 1: I love my kids. I talked to him every day.

308
00:22:53,836 --> 00:22:57,836
Speaker 1: Yet you know they're on separate size of the US,

309
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Speaker 1: but I can you know, I can't spend a lot

310
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Speaker 1: of time with them, but you know, we we talk

311
00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:09,556
Speaker 1: every day. I don't know what would happened. Maybe if

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00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:13,316
Speaker 1: I could pull the throttle back hand, all things would

313
00:23:13,316 --> 00:23:15,676
Speaker 1: have been a lot different, But it didn't happen. So,

314
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Speaker 1: Cathy says she respects what Ned accomplished as an agent,

315
00:23:20,716 --> 00:23:23,716
Speaker 1: but it's all overshadowed by the cost that it exacted

316
00:23:23,756 --> 00:23:27,276
Speaker 1: on both of them personally, And she still wonders how

317
00:23:27,436 --> 00:23:29,916
Speaker 1: and if it might have all played out differently, if

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Speaker 1: somehow Ned had been able to walk away from the

319
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Speaker 1: undercover work, if he had just been working cases. You know,

320
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Speaker 1: you don't have those opportunities. You can't go sit at

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Speaker 1: a bar all day if you're working cases. You know,

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00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:46,596
Speaker 1: you can't go off on these. You can't create a

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Speaker 1: whole new persona of yourself. You are who you are.

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Speaker 1: You're just an FBI agent. You're not God, You're not

325
00:23:53,036 --> 00:23:57,116
Speaker 1: some movie star, you know, having dinners with fancy people

326
00:23:57,316 --> 00:24:01,956
Speaker 1: in fancy places, and you know, you're just an average person.

327
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Speaker 1: If you remove the undercover work from the equation, might

328
00:24:06,036 --> 00:24:09,276
Speaker 1: our marriage have failed over time because of alcohol and

329
00:24:09,436 --> 00:24:13,156
Speaker 1: fooling around the stuff. Maybe, but we will never know.

330
00:24:14,476 --> 00:24:17,756
Speaker 1: In any case, After he stepped down, Ned's colleagues at

331
00:24:17,756 --> 00:24:20,996
Speaker 1: the FBI did throw him a little goodbye party. It

332
00:24:21,236 --> 00:24:24,836
Speaker 1: was at this restaurant in Oakland County. Some people from

333
00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:28,276
Speaker 1: the other law enforcement agencies, from our old police department came,

334
00:24:28,836 --> 00:24:32,316
Speaker 1: so it wasn't hugely attended, but you know, there were

335
00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:35,156
Speaker 1: enough people there, and you know, they gave him a

336
00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:38,396
Speaker 1: plaque and wished him well, and you know, we all

337
00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:41,116
Speaker 1: had lunch, and you know, he gave a little talk

338
00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:44,356
Speaker 1: about how he'll miss the FBI, and you know, but

339
00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:48,436
Speaker 1: this is what he wants to do now. And he

340
00:24:48,556 --> 00:24:51,236
Speaker 1: worked so hard and that's all he ever wanted to be,

341
00:24:51,516 --> 00:24:55,316
Speaker 1: was an FBI agent, and he just threw it all away,

342
00:24:56,596 --> 00:25:05,316
Speaker 1: literally threw it all away. Looking back, Ned says at

343
00:25:05,356 --> 00:25:08,636
Speaker 1: the undercover work, it kind of slowly wore him down,

344
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:14,636
Speaker 1: and that's why he resigned. I'd just had it was

345
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:19,876
Speaker 1: out of gas. I wanted to do something different, you know,

346
00:25:20,156 --> 00:25:26,596
Speaker 1: I had just exhausted with the FBI. And I'm sure

347
00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:29,516
Speaker 1: he was. But the way he talks about it, it's

348
00:25:29,596 --> 00:25:32,756
Speaker 1: clear to me that these were his glory days. And honestly,

349
00:25:33,036 --> 00:25:35,276
Speaker 1: I think part of Ned is still stuck in nineteen

350
00:25:35,316 --> 00:25:38,596
Speaker 1: eighty nine. He talks about everything that happened like it

351
00:25:38,756 --> 00:25:41,956
Speaker 1: was yesterday, boasting about the role that he played in history.

352
00:25:42,516 --> 00:25:45,516
Speaker 1: And there is a certain logic to his conviction. Ned

353
00:25:45,556 --> 00:25:49,156
Speaker 1: flipped Toby, which led him to shine, which perhaps more

354
00:25:49,196 --> 00:25:51,996
Speaker 1: than anything else, led to the downfall of Lee Rich

355
00:25:52,396 --> 00:25:56,236
Speaker 1: and in a way, Stephen Kalish too. Without them, there's

356
00:25:56,276 --> 00:26:00,476
Speaker 1: no star witness to testify against Noriega, and without that, well,

357
00:26:00,516 --> 00:26:03,996
Speaker 1: there's much less of a pretext for invading Panama. A

358
00:26:04,076 --> 00:26:24,636
Speaker 1: bit of a stretch, maybe, but it's not crazy. When

359
00:26:24,676 --> 00:26:26,876
Speaker 1: I was done reporting this story, I went back and

360
00:26:26,996 --> 00:26:30,356
Speaker 1: reread Ned's novel. What struck me most was how and

361
00:26:30,476 --> 00:26:32,916
Speaker 1: where it ended. The image that we're left with is

362
00:26:32,956 --> 00:26:36,716
Speaker 1: of Ned at the very top of his game. Ned

363
00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:39,476
Speaker 1: was back to the less glamorous, if more direct work

364
00:26:39,596 --> 00:26:42,476
Speaker 1: of hitting the dealers where they lived. He'd gotten so

365
00:26:42,716 --> 00:26:45,556
Speaker 1: used to undercover work he would literally walk from a

366
00:26:45,636 --> 00:26:48,436
Speaker 1: courthouse where he had been testifying and make a buye

367
00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:51,636
Speaker 1: in his suit and tie. He didn't give a fuck anymore,

368
00:26:52,356 --> 00:26:54,196
Speaker 1: and it only made him even better at the work.

369
00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:58,796
Speaker 1: In the novel, Ned doesn't resign from the FBI. He

370
00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:04,916
Speaker 1: just goes right back to work chasing bad guys. And

371
00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:07,356
Speaker 1: in the very last scene of the book, Ned is

372
00:27:07,356 --> 00:27:11,196
Speaker 1: down on Louisiana. He's just finished visiting Lee Rich in jail,

373
00:27:11,636 --> 00:27:14,996
Speaker 1: and he's at some hotel, sitting at the bar. The

374
00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,356
Speaker 1: lighting is very dim, and mysterious, and he meets this

375
00:27:18,516 --> 00:27:22,676
Speaker 1: woman who's clearly simone. It's their first encounter. He's just

376
00:27:22,916 --> 00:27:27,756
Speaker 1: having a drink and she walks in. Using the mirror

377
00:27:27,796 --> 00:27:30,276
Speaker 1: behind the bottles of booze on display on the top shelf,

378
00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:33,116
Speaker 1: he watched the figure of a woman moved through the

379
00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:36,996
Speaker 1: dim light. He turned as she got close enough, and

380
00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:39,356
Speaker 1: found himself looking into the face of one of the

381
00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,636
Speaker 1: most beautiful women he had ever seen. She put a

382
00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:45,316
Speaker 1: newspaper in front of Ned. It was an article he

383
00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:49,236
Speaker 1: had read, an article about the case and ultimately about him.

384
00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:53,916
Speaker 1: Are you this agent? Ned turned to face her fully.

385
00:27:54,836 --> 00:27:57,156
Speaker 1: The fuzzy edges of perception given to him by the

386
00:27:57,196 --> 00:28:00,356
Speaker 1: whiskey started to straighten themselves as he scanned the room

387
00:28:00,436 --> 00:28:03,476
Speaker 1: to be sure she was alone. Columbians were known to

388
00:28:03,596 --> 00:28:06,556
Speaker 1: use women as assassins, or maybe she was just marking

389
00:28:06,636 --> 00:28:09,596
Speaker 1: him for another. But apart from a few the drunks

390
00:28:09,636 --> 00:28:11,956
Speaker 1: in the room given her the once over, no one

391
00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:18,236
Speaker 1: was paying any attention to him. Who's asking? The woman

392
00:28:18,316 --> 00:28:20,836
Speaker 1: goes on to tell Ned she knows someone down in

393
00:28:20,916 --> 00:28:25,076
Speaker 1: Columbia who's in deep trouble. Ned took her by the

394
00:28:25,116 --> 00:28:27,236
Speaker 1: elbow and guided her to a seat next to him.

395
00:28:28,156 --> 00:28:31,316
Speaker 1: What is it you need, he asked. She looked back

396
00:28:31,396 --> 00:28:34,036
Speaker 1: at him with tears glossing the surface of her eyes.

397
00:28:35,396 --> 00:28:45,436
Speaker 1: We need your help. And that's how it ends, kind

398
00:28:45,476 --> 00:28:48,236
Speaker 1: of suddenly. I guess you could call it a cliffhanger

399
00:28:48,716 --> 00:28:51,196
Speaker 1: or a teaser for a sequel, but you get the

400
00:28:51,276 --> 00:28:54,396
Speaker 1: basic idea. Ned is about to go off on another

401
00:28:54,436 --> 00:28:59,236
Speaker 1: adventure to help this damsel in distress. While he never

402
00:28:59,436 --> 00:29:02,396
Speaker 1: directly admitted it to me, I think Ned spends a

403
00:29:02,476 --> 00:29:04,996
Speaker 1: fair amount of time thinking about how this all might

404
00:29:05,036 --> 00:29:07,996
Speaker 1: have played out differently. In addition to his novel, he

405
00:29:08,076 --> 00:29:11,516
Speaker 1: teamed up with different and cranked out two screenplays, one

406
00:29:11,636 --> 00:29:14,396
Speaker 1: called Dope and the other called The Came In Connection.

407
00:29:15,116 --> 00:29:18,236
Speaker 1: Like the novel, they read kind of like alternate versions

408
00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:23,076
Speaker 1: of history, parallel universes, with the same characters but different outcomes.

409
00:29:27,516 --> 00:29:31,596
Speaker 1: He had some guy that was writing some screenplay or

410
00:29:31,716 --> 00:29:36,236
Speaker 1: something out in La and and and I said, Ned,

411
00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:39,436
Speaker 1: the whole story doesn't make any sense unless you tell

412
00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:43,076
Speaker 1: the end. It's really not a success story at all,

413
00:29:43,636 --> 00:29:45,916
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, sure his cases might have worked

414
00:29:45,956 --> 00:29:48,196
Speaker 1: out great, but you know it is not a success

415
00:29:48,236 --> 00:29:54,036
Speaker 1: story at all. And no one knows them better than Ned.

416
00:29:55,956 --> 00:30:02,276
Speaker 1: Later on, I told Ned what Cathy said. That's that

417
00:30:02,636 --> 00:30:05,796
Speaker 1: could be looked at that way. You know, well, I

418
00:30:05,876 --> 00:30:10,676
Speaker 1: mean it took a toll. You take a psychological and

419
00:30:10,716 --> 00:30:14,716
Speaker 1: a physical beating for all this stuff, you know, so

420
00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:20,316
Speaker 1: everything you pay a big price for. It's almost like

421
00:30:20,436 --> 00:30:21,956
Speaker 1: I was on a rocket and as no matter how

422
00:30:22,036 --> 00:30:23,916
Speaker 1: high is that rocket going to go before it turns

423
00:30:23,956 --> 00:30:26,956
Speaker 1: around falls back to Earth. I don't know. Would you

424
00:30:27,036 --> 00:30:28,836
Speaker 1: know that rocket was going to run out of gas

425
00:30:28,956 --> 00:30:40,676
Speaker 1: one day? So maybe it did, you know. It's been

426
00:30:40,676 --> 00:30:44,036
Speaker 1: about thirty five years since Ned Timmins made his big bust,

427
00:30:44,316 --> 00:30:52,356
Speaker 1: sending a whole host of criminals away to prison. Mike Vogel,

428
00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:56,276
Speaker 1: the distributor, the grocery guy. He stayed in the Detroit area,

429
00:30:56,676 --> 00:30:58,676
Speaker 1: in that quaint little town right out of a Norman

430
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:01,396
Speaker 1: Rockwell painting, kind of the last place you might expect

431
00:31:01,436 --> 00:31:04,796
Speaker 1: to find a former crime boss. Mike also served ten

432
00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:07,916
Speaker 1: years in prison. His old life on the outside gradually

433
00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:11,956
Speaker 1: fell apart. When you get out, or actually when you

434
00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:15,676
Speaker 1: go in, there's a realization you don't control a fucking thing.

435
00:31:16,556 --> 00:31:20,756
Speaker 1: You don't control anything in your life except maybe when

436
00:31:20,796 --> 00:31:24,876
Speaker 1: you breathe and when you don't breathe, and I was

437
00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:30,116
Speaker 1: aware that gone that long, no marriage could survive it,

438
00:31:31,436 --> 00:31:35,316
Speaker 1: none whatsoever. By the time he got out, Mike's ex

439
00:31:35,436 --> 00:31:37,756
Speaker 1: wife had remarried, and when Mike went to pick up

440
00:31:37,796 --> 00:31:40,156
Speaker 1: some of his old furniture from her house, he saw

441
00:31:40,236 --> 00:31:42,316
Speaker 1: that his kids had posted some of their artwork in

442
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:45,716
Speaker 1: the kitchen on the fridge. When he took a closer look,

443
00:31:45,916 --> 00:31:48,756
Speaker 1: Mike saw that his kids had changed their last names.

444
00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:52,596
Speaker 1: They'd taken on the stepdad's last name. Mike confronted his

445
00:31:52,676 --> 00:31:56,476
Speaker 1: ex wife, said, what the fuck are you doing? This

446
00:31:56,756 --> 00:32:02,716
Speaker 1: is Oh well, that's the way it was. You can't

447
00:32:02,716 --> 00:32:06,476
Speaker 1: hold blame for people that believe they're doing the best

448
00:32:06,556 --> 00:32:11,196
Speaker 1: for other people. Mike told me that he later reconnected

449
00:32:11,236 --> 00:32:13,836
Speaker 1: with his kids, that he developed a relationship with them,

450
00:32:14,356 --> 00:32:18,756
Speaker 1: but it took time. Sadly, just before this podcast was released,

451
00:32:19,116 --> 00:32:24,516
Speaker 1: Mike passed away at the age of sixty nine. As

452
00:32:24,596 --> 00:32:26,836
Speaker 1: for Stephen Kaylish, he told me that he had to

453
00:32:26,876 --> 00:32:29,756
Speaker 1: come to terms with the past. Over the years, a

454
00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:32,916
Speaker 1: lot of stories have surfaced about Noriega and how brutal

455
00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:36,916
Speaker 1: he was that he'd had a rival executed. Stephen claims

456
00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:39,516
Speaker 1: that this wasn't the Noriega that he knew back in

457
00:32:39,556 --> 00:32:43,276
Speaker 1: the early eighties. Still, it was a moment of reckoning

458
00:32:43,396 --> 00:32:52,476
Speaker 1: for him. I wish ashamed. It's probably the best description

459
00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:56,836
Speaker 1: ashamed that I would. I had done so much and

460
00:32:57,876 --> 00:33:01,436
Speaker 1: tied myself so closely to a man that was capable

461
00:33:01,476 --> 00:33:07,396
Speaker 1: of such atrocities. After getting out of prison, Stephen started

462
00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:10,556
Speaker 1: a telecom business that made cards, you know, the ones

463
00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:13,436
Speaker 1: he's swiped. He says that his business did very well,

464
00:33:13,956 --> 00:33:16,156
Speaker 1: and he ended up moving into that big mansion out

465
00:33:16,156 --> 00:33:19,796
Speaker 1: in Hawaii where I visited him together. He and his wife,

466
00:33:19,876 --> 00:33:23,996
Speaker 1: Faby run a horse ranch that offers equine therapy, you know,

467
00:33:24,396 --> 00:33:32,436
Speaker 1: peace of mind through horses. The reality is, in the

468
00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:35,796
Speaker 1: years that I've been here with Faby, I've learned a

469
00:33:35,956 --> 00:33:38,556
Speaker 1: great deal about myself and a great deal about many

470
00:33:38,636 --> 00:33:43,676
Speaker 1: things I was not aware of. And you know, quite frankly,

471
00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:47,676
Speaker 1: I never expected to be in a place where I'm

472
00:33:47,716 --> 00:34:00,396
Speaker 1: at peace. Well, I feel safe, truly safe. As for Noriega,

473
00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:03,996
Speaker 1: he served seventeen years in federal prison in the United States.

474
00:34:04,516 --> 00:34:07,596
Speaker 1: He was eventually extradited to France, where we spent about

475
00:34:07,636 --> 00:34:11,196
Speaker 1: a year incarcerated on money wandering charges. Then he was

476
00:34:11,316 --> 00:34:14,996
Speaker 1: extradited again, this time to Panama, where he spent roughly

477
00:34:15,076 --> 00:34:18,076
Speaker 1: another five years in prison. He died at the age

478
00:34:18,076 --> 00:34:28,556
Speaker 1: of eighty three. Lee Rich, you know, mister beach Club.

479
00:34:29,116 --> 00:34:31,556
Speaker 1: He was supposed to do thirty years in prison. In

480
00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:35,076
Speaker 1: the end he served ten. His sentence was reduced after

481
00:34:35,156 --> 00:34:38,516
Speaker 1: he cooperated with the congressional hearings. When I caught up

482
00:34:38,556 --> 00:34:41,116
Speaker 1: with him in Florida, he broke out a photo album

483
00:34:41,236 --> 00:34:44,316
Speaker 1: that included pictures of him in jail. Lee showed it

484
00:34:44,396 --> 00:34:46,276
Speaker 1: to me the way he might crack open an old

485
00:34:46,356 --> 00:34:52,556
Speaker 1: high school yearbook. This is prison, this one. This is

486
00:34:52,596 --> 00:34:58,076
Speaker 1: all of us in Lafayette, Louisiana in prison. That's the

487
00:34:58,196 --> 00:35:03,956
Speaker 1: main players and all those trials with Bogel, Kayalus and myself.

488
00:35:04,796 --> 00:35:07,556
Speaker 1: At one point he actually came very close to trying

489
00:35:07,596 --> 00:35:10,236
Speaker 1: to break out of prison. Week, if you can believe it,

490
00:35:10,596 --> 00:35:13,916
Speaker 1: Lee left prison to get dental work done. He was

491
00:35:14,036 --> 00:35:19,556
Speaker 1: escorted by a transportation officer named Gene. Minute I got

492
00:35:19,596 --> 00:35:21,356
Speaker 1: into van, should give me the key, I don't do

493
00:35:21,556 --> 00:35:26,236
Speaker 1: my handcuffs in the back and always brought me food.

494
00:35:27,236 --> 00:35:29,316
Speaker 1: And then I got the no, Gene all right, and

495
00:35:29,396 --> 00:35:32,076
Speaker 1: we would have our little thing on the side going

496
00:35:32,156 --> 00:35:36,036
Speaker 1: to the dentist. I actually spoke to Jeanne. She told

497
00:35:36,076 --> 00:35:38,436
Speaker 1: me that little thing on the side. He was just

498
00:35:38,516 --> 00:35:42,796
Speaker 1: a friendship anyway. That's when Lee hatched his plan. He

499
00:35:42,916 --> 00:35:44,836
Speaker 1: had a pilot who was going to land a plane

500
00:35:45,196 --> 00:35:48,156
Speaker 1: not far from the dentist's office. Just swoop down and

501
00:35:48,276 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 1: pick him up. But first he'd have to get away

502
00:35:51,156 --> 00:35:55,236
Speaker 1: from Gene steal her car. Basically, just tell you you

503
00:35:55,316 --> 00:35:57,196
Speaker 1: got to get out of the car now and take

504
00:35:57,276 --> 00:35:59,836
Speaker 1: the key from the van. Just leave her standing in

505
00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:03,596
Speaker 1: the parking lot. So the big day comes, He's sitting

506
00:36:03,756 --> 00:36:06,156
Speaker 1: in the car with Jeane. He's about to make his

507
00:36:06,276 --> 00:36:09,996
Speaker 1: big move when he realizes there's no gas in the car.

508
00:36:10,476 --> 00:36:13,996
Speaker 1: It's almost empty. Okay, I would have got down the road,

509
00:36:14,076 --> 00:36:16,916
Speaker 1: made me three miles outside the road and no gas,

510
00:36:17,436 --> 00:36:20,236
Speaker 1: out of gas, no money. I would have inbusted escape.

511
00:36:21,156 --> 00:36:23,716
Speaker 1: So I left alone. I went back to to jail

512
00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:28,156
Speaker 1: that night and cried my sorrows. And Lee also says

513
00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:30,876
Speaker 1: he couldn't do that to Jeanne because he really cared

514
00:36:30,876 --> 00:36:34,516
Speaker 1: about her deeply. In fact, he and jean they ended

515
00:36:34,556 --> 00:36:40,836
Speaker 1: up getting married Kathy Timmins. She and Ned got divorced.

516
00:36:41,156 --> 00:36:44,796
Speaker 1: Kathy raised her kids two sons, almost entirely on her own,

517
00:36:45,396 --> 00:36:47,716
Speaker 1: and she went on to have a really distinguished career

518
00:36:47,796 --> 00:36:51,316
Speaker 1: in the FBI. After nine eleven, she worked under Director

519
00:36:51,436 --> 00:36:53,996
Speaker 1: Robert Muller to help set up an office that shared

520
00:36:54,076 --> 00:36:57,876
Speaker 1: intelligence and worked with state and local law enforcement. She's

521
00:36:57,916 --> 00:37:01,836
Speaker 1: retired now, never remarried. She still stays in touch with Ned.

522
00:37:04,076 --> 00:37:06,156
Speaker 1: You know, people were always surprised at, you know, how

523
00:37:06,276 --> 00:37:09,436
Speaker 1: much we always still talked over the many years because

524
00:37:09,516 --> 00:37:11,716
Speaker 1: I think he you know, we had so much that

525
00:37:11,836 --> 00:37:14,236
Speaker 1: we knew about one another, and you know, at the

526
00:37:14,356 --> 00:37:17,716
Speaker 1: core what that's like being a police officer, being an

527
00:37:17,796 --> 00:37:22,956
Speaker 1: FBI agent, working these things our families. Back in two

528
00:37:22,996 --> 00:37:26,076
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Ned and Kathy actually worked a case together.

529
00:37:26,636 --> 00:37:29,036
Speaker 1: Ned had been hired as a private eye to solve

530
00:37:29,076 --> 00:37:32,436
Speaker 1: a particularly vexing murder down in Georgia. Ned knew he

531
00:37:32,516 --> 00:37:35,676
Speaker 1: need help from a really good investigator, so he asked

532
00:37:35,756 --> 00:37:39,556
Speaker 1: Kathy to help him review the case, and briefly, once

533
00:37:39,596 --> 00:37:43,716
Speaker 1: again they were a team. He's still never been able

534
00:37:43,796 --> 00:37:49,116
Speaker 1: to actually leave that undercover role. He's never really replaced

535
00:37:49,436 --> 00:37:52,356
Speaker 1: the people that he knew, the people that he was

536
00:37:52,596 --> 00:37:55,956
Speaker 1: close to. It's like he'd never moved on. He never

537
00:37:56,116 --> 00:37:59,796
Speaker 1: moved on from it. It stayed with him, and it's

538
00:37:59,836 --> 00:38:03,796
Speaker 1: like he's still trying to find the end of it.

539
00:38:05,156 --> 00:38:07,316
Speaker 1: It is. It's like he's still trying to find the

540
00:38:07,516 --> 00:38:14,156
Speaker 1: end of the story. Ned Timmins still lives in the

541
00:38:14,236 --> 00:38:17,876
Speaker 1: Detroit area. He's a successful private eye, runs a company

542
00:38:17,956 --> 00:38:21,876
Speaker 1: called Legal and Security Strategies. He's handled security for local

543
00:38:21,996 --> 00:38:24,836
Speaker 1: media outlets and right now he's trying to chase down

544
00:38:24,876 --> 00:38:28,116
Speaker 1: the guys in China who are counterfeiting American tobacco products.

545
00:38:28,596 --> 00:38:33,156
Speaker 1: He also specializes in jet ski fatalities, investigating how and

546
00:38:33,316 --> 00:38:36,836
Speaker 1: why people died while zipping around on their jet skis.

547
00:38:38,116 --> 00:38:41,236
Speaker 1: After leaving the FBI, Ned and Simone were together for

548
00:38:41,396 --> 00:38:45,196
Speaker 1: about two years. Ultimately it didn't work out. They still

549
00:38:45,276 --> 00:38:48,036
Speaker 1: stay in touch. In fact, Ned says that he periodically

550
00:38:48,116 --> 00:38:50,636
Speaker 1: sends her a few hundred dollars to help with the bills.

551
00:38:53,396 --> 00:38:55,996
Speaker 1: Over the years. Ned He's also stayed in touch with

552
00:38:56,196 --> 00:38:59,356
Speaker 1: Lee Rich. In the late nineteen nineties, Ned built a

553
00:38:59,396 --> 00:39:02,476
Speaker 1: house down in the Caymans. Two of them actually got

554
00:39:02,516 --> 00:39:05,436
Speaker 1: a big boat, and he started hanging out with Lee again.

555
00:39:05,836 --> 00:39:07,916
Speaker 1: At that point, Lee was out of prison and the

556
00:39:07,996 --> 00:39:10,596
Speaker 1: Caymans were still his home. Even though he was no

557
00:39:10,716 --> 00:39:15,116
Speaker 1: longer the island's Robin Hood. Lee Rich and I were

558
00:39:15,196 --> 00:39:19,036
Speaker 1: friends undercover, and we were friends when he got arrested,

559
00:39:19,996 --> 00:39:24,836
Speaker 1: and we still talk once a week because our personalities

560
00:39:26,196 --> 00:39:29,916
Speaker 1: congealed or whatever you want to call it. I love

561
00:39:29,996 --> 00:39:33,116
Speaker 1: that he used the word congealed. The two of them

562
00:39:33,196 --> 00:39:40,036
Speaker 1: remained close friends to this day. Recently, Ned planned a

563
00:39:40,076 --> 00:39:42,836
Speaker 1: trip down to the Caymans. Lee was supposed to come too,

564
00:39:42,996 --> 00:39:45,276
Speaker 1: but he had some health issues and he couldn't make it.

565
00:39:46,116 --> 00:39:49,836
Speaker 1: Ned went anyway, and I tagged along. Down in the Caymans,

566
00:39:50,076 --> 00:39:53,556
Speaker 1: Ned he seemed to be some in his element. Sure,

567
00:39:53,676 --> 00:39:56,156
Speaker 1: he was now in his seventies and walking with a limp,

568
00:39:56,556 --> 00:39:58,916
Speaker 1: but he seemed to love reprising his role as a

569
00:39:58,996 --> 00:40:01,756
Speaker 1: man of mystery. At the time, he was working on

570
00:40:01,836 --> 00:40:04,556
Speaker 1: a bounty hunting deal to locate a highly sought after

571
00:40:04,636 --> 00:40:07,836
Speaker 1: a US fugitive. He had a driver taking him around.

572
00:40:07,956 --> 00:40:11,396
Speaker 1: Big guy almost looked a bodyguard. At one point we

573
00:40:11,516 --> 00:40:14,836
Speaker 1: headed over to the house of Lee's old butler, Burtley.

574
00:40:15,596 --> 00:40:17,756
Speaker 1: You may remember him. This is the guy who took

575
00:40:17,876 --> 00:40:20,956
Speaker 1: Ned fishing for conk back when Ned was undercover, and

576
00:40:21,076 --> 00:40:23,236
Speaker 1: at the time Ned thought Burtley was actually going to

577
00:40:23,356 --> 00:40:26,956
Speaker 1: kill him. Later on, when Ned lived in the Caymans,

578
00:40:27,196 --> 00:40:30,916
Speaker 1: they actually became friends. Burtley passed away a few years back,

579
00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:37,836
Speaker 1: and now Ned was visiting his widow. Hey, who's there?

580
00:40:38,556 --> 00:40:45,956
Speaker 1: You remember me? Ned ye talking? They sat down and

581
00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:49,436
Speaker 1: reminisced about old times, back when Burtley was still alive.

582
00:40:50,476 --> 00:40:53,596
Speaker 1: Ned seemed genuinely happy, caught up in all the memories.

583
00:40:55,516 --> 00:40:58,676
Speaker 1: And as we were getting ready to leave, Ned very

584
00:40:58,716 --> 00:41:02,196
Speaker 1: discreetly took out his wallet and slipped the widow some

585
00:41:02,396 --> 00:41:07,396
Speaker 1: money to help out, make sure that she was all right, okay,

586
00:41:07,996 --> 00:41:18,876
Speaker 1: get run all right, thank you okay. Then he shuffled

587
00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:24,916
Speaker 1: back to the van, and for a moment I had

588
00:41:24,956 --> 00:41:28,916
Speaker 1: this strange sensation that I was watching a play, and

589
00:41:29,116 --> 00:41:31,716
Speaker 1: in it, the role of the Islands Robin Hood was

590
00:41:31,796 --> 00:41:34,996
Speaker 1: being played not by Lee Rich, who was out sick,

591
00:41:35,596 --> 00:41:38,956
Speaker 1: but by his understudy, a man who knew the role,

592
00:41:39,236 --> 00:41:58,916
Speaker 1: had memorized it in fact, and played it well. Deep

593
00:41:58,996 --> 00:42:02,796
Speaker 1: Cover is produced by Jacob Smith and edited by Karen Shakurge.

594
00:42:03,276 --> 00:42:06,556
Speaker 1: Our story editor is Jack hit. Original music and our

595
00:42:06,636 --> 00:42:09,676
Speaker 1: theme was composed by Luis Gara and Flown Williams is

596
00:42:09,676 --> 00:42:13,996
Speaker 1: our engineer. Fact checking by Amy Gaines, Mia Lobell as

597
00:42:14,036 --> 00:42:18,476
Speaker 1: Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's novel is read by Walton Goggins.

598
00:42:19,236 --> 00:42:22,636
Speaker 1: John Custer is Pushkin's art director, and our show art

599
00:42:22,676 --> 00:42:26,076
Speaker 1: and character illustrations were drawn by Victor Kurlow. You can

600
00:42:26,156 --> 00:42:29,796
Speaker 1: see them on our website, deepcoverpod dot com. The site

601
00:42:29,836 --> 00:42:33,876
Speaker 1: was created by Tyler Adams. Special thanks to Julia Barton,

602
00:42:34,156 --> 00:42:39,476
Speaker 1: Heather Fain, Carl mcgliori, Lee to Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler,

603
00:42:39,716 --> 00:42:44,156
Speaker 1: Aggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, zuwek Gin and Jacob Weisberg at

604
00:42:44,196 --> 00:42:48,356
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. The first version of Ned's unpublished novel was

605
00:42:48,396 --> 00:42:52,476
Speaker 1: written by James Coyne and edited by Andrea McLaughlin. Lee

606
00:42:52,636 --> 00:42:56,156
Speaker 1: Rich has just published a memoir. It's called In Too Deep.

607
00:42:56,476 --> 00:42:59,516
Speaker 1: It has the full story of his life. Stephen Kaylish

608
00:42:59,636 --> 00:43:03,116
Speaker 1: also has a memoir on the Way The Last Gentleman Smuggler,

609
00:43:03,396 --> 00:43:08,396
Speaker 1: so please check them both out. Additional thanks to Sophia Kiafulis, Twi,

610
00:43:08,476 --> 00:43:13,956
Speaker 1: La Gore, Scott Vieira, Nathan Saunders, Elizabeth Ostman, and James Baxter.

611
00:43:14,516 --> 00:43:18,116
Speaker 1: Tape sinks this season were by Elizabeth Eads, Barbara Sprunt,

612
00:43:18,436 --> 00:43:23,156
Speaker 1: Robert Jamison, Audrey McGlinchey, Greta Weber and Sean Cologne. And

613
00:43:23,316 --> 00:43:26,836
Speaker 1: a very special thanks to Jeff's singer at Stowaway Entertainment

614
00:43:27,116 --> 00:43:29,756
Speaker 1: who uncovered the story and thought I should tell it.

615
00:43:31,636 --> 00:43:32,636
Speaker 1: I'm Jake Albern