WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Naked Murders 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.240 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a phone 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.199 box at the top of the ladder. Instead, it's supported 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.799 by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.960 patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more. Thanks 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:30.400 Thinking Sideways. I don't think stories of things. We simply 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:36.360 don't know the answer too. Hey guys, welcome to another 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.159 episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Joe, as always, 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.760 joined by and Steve, who doesn't get to change his 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.519 name apparent. Sorry, sorry, just kidding, I'm actually Devon. That's 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:54.160 Joe and that's Steve. Confused. Uh, this week we're going 0:00:54.200 --> 0:01:00.680 to talk about a murderous series of a serial of murders, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.480 if you will. We've we've done Jack the Ripper, we 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.679 did the Atlanta Ripper. Now we're going to do Jack 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.280 the Stripper. This is not Jack the stripper that you 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.200 throw at the dollar bills. That's not like kind of stripper. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.000 It's like actually the opposite of the fun, sexy way 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.959 of stripper. Yeah, there's nothing fun or sexy about this 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.800 old I would agree. Yeah, um, it's all this. This 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.959 case is also often referred to as the Naked Murders, 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:30.280 or sometimes the Hammersmith murders and it was suggested originally 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:37.080 by Emily. Thanks Emily. These murders took place between nineteen 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.320 sixty four and nineteen sixty five in London, England. Jack 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.720 the Stripper we're just gonna call him Jack, you know, 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.919 friendly terms. Sorry. Um, he was the alleged perpetrator of six, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.080 maybe eight murders in London, as we said, uh, kind 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.560 of in the same little area. Yeah, they were in 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.559 the same same district. Yeah, same district area. And um, yeah, 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:07.400 his modus operandi was similar to Jack the Ripper. You didn't, like, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.920 you know, carve them open. He did not carve them open, No, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.679 but they did help kind of lean him towards the 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.000 name with Jack the Stripper, that's one of that was 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.200 one of the comparisons there. It's easy to We've talked 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.960 about this off off the Bike before, is that it's 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.720 it's very funny to me that everybody becomes a Jack 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:32.760 as soon as they killed at least three hookers, maybe two, 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:38.000 and then immediately that designation gets thrown out. Yes, they 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.359 are prostitutes, not sex prostitutes. Prostitutes. We don't want to 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:48.480 offend anyone. No, Jack did murder prostitutes. Only their naked 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:53.280 bodies were found around London or in the Thames. Quick note, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.400 I'm apparently only doing mysteries in London now, so that 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.000 everybody can be annoyed at how I pronouncing, So everybod 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.239 he's ready special. And then also as a quick note, 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.840 if you haven't already realized, this is gonna be one 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.040 of those shows that if you have any issues with 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.120 sexual trauma or anything like that, or the kids around, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.320 maybe this is not the one because we're gonna start 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.960 talking about details. Also, if you're squeamish, this might not 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.480 be the one either. It's not it's not really a 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.800 scory as a lot of ones we talked, but there's 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.520 a lot more kind of potential for actual triggers. Yeah, 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.200 and this is the This is more cerebral instead of 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.239 slash slash, slash, bloody, bloody, bloody. There's these are things 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.960 that you start thinking about, some folks, So please be aware. Yeah, okay, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:42.800 did you turn off nod? Okay, you guys ready, let's 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.560 start talking about this. So Jack killed his victims by asphyxiation, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.800 but it was kind of a unique form of asphyxiation. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:54.240 Was basically he strangled his victims by forcing them to 0:03:54.360 --> 0:04:00.760 perform very deep throat filatio. You. Yeah. It's victims were 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.280 found without their underwear, often until it was discovered like 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:08.280 deep in their throats as gags. Um. Not all of 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.040 the victims, but more than one of the victims their 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:16.679 underwear was found her underwear the very deep in their throat, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.520 and they were often missing front teeth, just one or two, 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.479 but still missing front teeth. Uh. And as with most 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.440 serial killers, the episodes that we do about serial killers, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.039 we're just gonna like run through the victims here real quick. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.360 I'm gonna do all eight in order of discovery, even 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.719 though you usually see the six that they call confirmed 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.520 and then the two at the end, even though actually 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.159 one of the unconfirmed ones is was discovered before. So 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.520 I'm going to do them in chronologic order instead. Cool 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:50.800 with you, guys, Yeah, cool? Alright. First victim, unconfirmed victim 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.800 of Jack of Jack. I'm not sure that she was 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.760 actually part of the whole series. Yeah, I'm not sure either. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.599 It's hard to tell. I Um was woman by the 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.359 name of Elizabeth Big. She was twenty one years old. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.840 She was found dead on June seventeenth, nineteen fifty nine. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:12.880 So a good five years before the actual serial murdering started. 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.440 She was found near the River Thames. Her death was 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.919 considered by some to bear a lot of similarities to 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.240 the other victims, namely the the location and the fact 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:26.240 that she was strangled today strangled right, yeah really and 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.320 that never happens ever, yeah never. So. The next victim, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.120 which is the first official victim, was Hannah Talford. She 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.560 was thirty and she was found dead on February second, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:43.279 nineteen sixty four, also near the River Thames. Are really 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:48.159 in kind of near on the shore, I thought, Yeah, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.280 she was, yeah, so near the shore, Yeah, near the 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.040 shore in the water, yeah yeah, uh and it was 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.839 she was very close actually to the Hammersmith Bridge Um. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.279 She had been strangled several of her teeth room saying, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.320 and her underwear was forced down her throat really deep down. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.720 That sounds unpleasant. Sounds really unpleasant. The next okay, so 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.719 all of the rest of the victims except for the 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.440 last one are official victims. So it's the first and 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:18.440 the last suspected but not okay. Yeah. Irene Lockwood was 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.800 the second official victim. She was twenty six. Her body 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.560 was found on April eighth, nineteen sixty four, also on 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.239 the river shore, not far from where Hannah was found. Um, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.400 and that really made police think that, you know, oh gosh, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.120 there's a serial killer on the loost. She was also 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.280 missing some teeth. She had also died of asphyxiation. Asphyxiation, 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:46.240 also found without underwear on. I know she's still had 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.000 her stockings on. I think she's the one that still 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.960 had her stockings. It was her. It was her, Hannah, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.160 one of the two I remember. And they all would 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.400 have some maybe one or two little bits of clothing on. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.320 Many of them were found with their stock things like 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.520 rolled down to their ankles, which is kind of weird 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.919 because they were also missing their panties and that's like 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.360 a very that's a hard transition to make, just the true. Yeah, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.840 except for well, I guess in the sixties, it's possible 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.920 they were all still wearing Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.440 is that I think they were all talking, so there 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.360 is the ability for one to come off without dislodging 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.440 the other. Um. Now, I want to ask you real quick, 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.680 and I know that this will be important later on 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.920 in the story. Is she was so we were just 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.520 talking about Irene and she was found on the eighth, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.960 but we don't know exactly when she disappeared, correct, Yeah, 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:45.080 many of the yeah, unless weeks. There's one one victim 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.880 that we know when she disappeared, or we think we 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.760 know when she disappeared. Again, like, there's actually not a 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.400 way to confirmed that this is when she disappeared. But um, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.680 with with all the other victims, it's hard. You don't 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.360 really know when there were in missing because they weren't 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.480 really reported missing because they were prostitutes and that was 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.200 just kind of the sort of thing. I think most 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.080 of the people who knew these women just assumed they 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.160 moved on to other things. That's been what I mean. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:14.560 I don't know if you guys have ever done any 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.920 reading on this, but that's one of the giant dangers 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.160 for people who are sex workers is that you don't 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.400 because of that lifestyle, you don't make any close bonds, 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.280 so therefore nobody knows if you're not around, and then 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.840 so nobody realizes you're gone. And there's a lot of 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.800 groups that are you know, working on things like that 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.000 to try to help that. But that's that's one of 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.560 the giant dangers, absolutely, yeah, and it's it's also possible 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.520 again that they might have just gone off for a 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.559 couple of weeks to work a different part of town. Yeah, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.560 I mean that's but that's the whole thing is that 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.800 with this one exception, which I think is likely, we 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.720 do know when this person, when this girl disappeared. Um, 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:53.800 the rest of them, we don't really know. Yeah, we 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.120 just know when their bodies were found. You've got and 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.760 they were all and we should say, it didn't look 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.200 like they had been floating for like weeks, you know, 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.280 it was they were relatively recently dumped and probably relatively 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.600 recently murder fresh body fresh bodies, not you know, like 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.240 crawling and gross, not in the water for weeks on end. Yes, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.320 but but that is important to point out. Thank you 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.000 for bringing that up. Yeah, we don't know when they disappeared. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:22.000 Next victim was Helen Barthelmy. She was twenty two. Um. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:27.520 She was originally from Blackpool, if that interests anyone. She 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.880 was found dead on April ninety four, UM in an 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.920 alleyway in Brentford. And this actually was the so she 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.160 was the first one. I don't know if you've been 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:39.480 keeping track of this or not, but she was the 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.199 first body that wasn't found in the river or near 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.800 the water, so she was the first one where the 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.520 police could actually gather physical evidence that might have been 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:54.319 left behind by the killer. She was a yeah, which 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.200 obviously people find bodies and alleys much quicker because there 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.240 are people are going through there than they do on 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.560 the edge of the river bank. But also there was 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:07.480 no the water hadn't washed even Irene's body being on 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.000 the shore of the river. It was it was presumed 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.600 she was dumped in the river and then washed on shore, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.760 so the water would have washed away any kind of 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.480 residue or anything like that, which was actually important because 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.160 Helen's body did actually have some interesting things on her um. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.520 They found flex of paint used in motor car manufacturing 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:32.720 or like repainting um automobiles, and the source that I 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.920 that I found, they actually found cold dust on on 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.120 her body, and I think all the subsequent victims have 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.400 goun cold dust. They found red, black and white paint 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.000 flex or little droplets predominantly black, and I presume that's 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.040 why they came to the conclusion that it was involved 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.720 with cars, because back at this time cars in Britain 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.120 were primarily mostly black. Yeah, So yeah, Yeah, so they 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.160 found those flex um and the police felt that it 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.040 was you know, from the killer's workplace. They first they 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.680 started speculating that the killer was was actually like a 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.040 paint sprayer in the motor industry of some kind, whether 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.079 it be in a body shop or in manufacturing or whatever, 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.480 worked in a paint booth all day, Yeah, they thought, 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:23.080 and particularly pertaining to the auto industry. Well, yeah, I 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.080 mean there's that's the thing is that people may not 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:30.440 realize this, but certain applications re require certain kinds of paint, 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.000 and paint that you put on a car is very 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.560 specific because it's got to withstand the elements for a 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.440 long period of time. Very true. Yep. The next victim 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.400 was Mary Fleming. She was thirty originally from Scotland. She 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.160 was found in in the sitting position at the entrance 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.120 of a garage on July fourteenth in nineteen sixty four. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.680 And it was a residence that the garage. It was 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.319 a residential garage. It wasn't like it was just some 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:03.080 random workplace. Yeah. And this was in Chiswick where the 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.560 police presence was actually the heaviest they were. They were 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.439 really heavily patrolling that area. Um, there were again paint 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.240 flex on her body and the coal dust um as well. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.040 Locals reported that they thought they heard a vehicle backing 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.959 down the street just before the body was discovered, and 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.520 the police suspected it was a car obviously um, but 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.240 since nobody had seen it, they actually couldn't confirm that 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.440 it was a car. They thought it probably you know, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.520 people said they thought it sounded like a car. I 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.960 am inclined to believe it probably was a car. I 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.960 am I am too. But what the weird thing about 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.400 a car backing away is when you get into residential 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.319 neighborhoods in London, the you know, the house, there's the 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.760 front sides and then the alleys have the backside with 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.439 the garages typically in my experience anyway, and those are 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:56.240 usually one way streets. So it's really weird that somebody 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.480 would be backing down it because that means they'd have 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.560 to back out into try afic. Well. I mean, granted 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.400 may have been super it was super early in the morning, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.240 but it's still just not the thing that puzzles me 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.840 is how somebody could hear it and conclude that they 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.360 were backing up as opposed to just driving slowly forward. 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.000 Old cars you put them in reverse, and reverse always 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.360 had a high pitch wine. That's true, there was there 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:25.200 was always that really typical high pitch gear speed. It 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.920 would happen. That's why I think that people is like, oh, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.520 somebody's backing up really fast. That's weird. Well, but I 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.240 almost wonder if if the killer was backing down the alley, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.000 dropped the body and then pulled out so that it 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.800 would look normal, you know what I mean, like back 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.040 down the alley even though it's a one way, back 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.000 down the wrong way, so that they would pull out 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.160 into traffic the right way. You could have driven down 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.840 the alley the wrong way to begin with, andze, that's 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.360 happened to family. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but I'm thinking 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.160 he drives slowly down the alley the wrong way, it 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.760 dumps the body and continues on and people hearing them, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.880 they hear him going and uh, and they concluded he 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.080 must be backing up, since otherwise that means he'll be 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.480 driving the wrong way down one way street. That's a 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:14.400 good points. Good point, although because nobody really saw it, 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.040 pretty tiny little clue anyway, so let's not worry about 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.320 it anymore. Yeah. Actually, so the next body that was found. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.200 Francis Brown is the next victim, the one that we 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.760 find the most about. She was twenty one at the time, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.760 and she was last seen by fellow prostitute and friend 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.880 Kim Taylor, and Kim last saw her on October twenty three, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.920 nineteen sixty four, but Francis's body wasn't discovered until more 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:47.280 than a month later, November four. Lucky for investigators. Though, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:52.440 Kim thought that she had seen the man that Francis 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.760 was picked up by, and she thought that that was 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.680 the last She thought that was Jack. Basically, she thought 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.240 that was probably the last person that Francis had ever 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.280 seen for whatever reason. And they got a sketch of 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.280 that person. They got an identicate, which was a really 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.720 terrible sketch, really really very I wouldn't say terrible, very 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.320 generic um. But they also got a description of the car. 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.400 They thought the car was either a Ford Zephyr or Zodiac, 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.880 neither of which we have in America. We didn't they 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.200 were a British. They were a Ford of Britain. Only 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.120 I was curious, so I looked it up. They shipped 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.240 some of them to the US kind of a novelty 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.440 basis but they were, and they didn't have you know, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.720 it's funny is that a lot of cars have a 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.800 international companion, so there's one for one name here and 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.760 one name there. This car didn't appear to be They 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:53.120 look very British, these cars, and they look very little 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.560 squad round fenders. Yeah that I didn't They also to 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.640 make these in Australia. Uh No, I don't, No, well 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.720 I don't. I didn't see anything about this particular line 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.040 being in Australia, but it could have been. I just 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.280 didn't see any they were. They were UK. Only somebody's 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.280 now thinking that Dr Bogol and Mrs Chandler had one 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.320 or something like that, you know. But the thing is 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.440 is because the car lines would be used in one 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.480 country only, they could take the name, and they did 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.080 sometimes put them under places. I'm pretty sure that the 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.680 Zephyr actually got used in the States like five or 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.840 eight years later on a different line. It was like 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.080 a model for a very brief time, so they could 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.720 they would hop from continent to continent that way. But 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.000 it's a weird thing that they get away with. There 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.280 was there was, Yeah, there was definitely a Zephyr I 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.200 think made in the us, but it didn't look anything 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:48.960 like the British one. No, no, And it was the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.120 predecessor to the Ford Granada. Yeah, so that's which is 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.120 a totally different car. But it was also you know, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.080 it was ten years later and Devin is now board 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:04.159 by Joe's Steve have Cartile checking out on apologize. Yeah, well, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:05.520 I just want to say, how can you not use 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.680 zephyrt because it's a cool name, it's a great name. 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.280 I actually, I really I wish that it's the Zodiac 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:12.960 so that at least we have a connection to another 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.640 serial killing. Yeah. If they you know what, if they 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.920 ever make the Zodiac car again, people are going to 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:24.560 be getting that that's the Zodiac symbol on the hood. 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.439 Sure they will never do that ever again, probably for 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.439 that reason. Yeah, so back to our well know, it's 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.240 a killer car. Oh god, it was a good it was. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.040 It wasn't even a little bit of a good one today. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.160 So that's uh. That's Francis Brown. And she, like I said, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:46.120 she was found a month later. Yeah, a month fullmos 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.440 since she had been seen last. And again it's hard 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.520 to tell. I think the sense I had was that 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.680 investigators thought that Kim and Francis were good enough friends 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.440 that had Francis been free and alive, him would have 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.359 seen her in that time frame. Yeah, you know, I 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.520 almost got the sense of them like living together. So yeah, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.000 and I think that I'm not if I'm remembering correctly. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.080 I think Francis Brown. When they found her body, it 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.320 was significantly deteriorated, so she had been probably dead the 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.639 entire month. Yeah. The next victim was Bridget O'Hara. She 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.359 was twenty eight years old, and she's the last official victim. 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.399 She was found behind a storage shed. She had the 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.639 same Yeah. By the way, I think if I had 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.280 this write in another source, I found this was a 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.440 shed that actually had two transformers inside it. Yes, yeah, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.199 I was about to talk about that. Actually, Okay, sorry, 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.119 So she had she did have the same paint flex 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:46.280 on her body. Um. They were identical to all of 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.000 the other paint flex that had been found. Um. And 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.000 they were actually identical to paint flex also on a 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:57.800 transformer that Joe mentioned bursting my bubble yet again. The 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.600 transformer was found just a couple of yards away. It 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.359 also appeared that her body had been kept warm it 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.719 was so it was in good condition. So they thought 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.280 maybe it had been kept cool, but again it's hard 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.720 since we don't know. People also say they think it 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.520 might have been mummified in a transformer, right, Yeah, so 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.520 that was the that was the that was the thing, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.119 that was that was the thing somebody. That's something that 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.960 I think when we say a transformer, what we're talking 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:31.040 about is a big metal box, you know, several feet 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.439 by several feet that you can somebody could actually climb 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.159 into it large enough, so not the things that are 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.760 up on poles. Yeah, yeah, and so that that's a 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.280 bit of a question. And I've read some places that 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.399 it was mummified. I've read some places that it was 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.840 in good condition and looked like it hadn't been dead 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:49.960 for very long. I've read some places that they thought 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.000 her body was kept cool for a period of time, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.880 kept a refrigerator or something like that. So it's hard 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.240 to tell. Again, I don't think somebody hung out and 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.200 watch Telly with the body for a couple of as 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.080 in the cooler, and then you realized the conversation was 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.400 really droll, and yeah, you're just pulling all of those 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.479 really fun English words out, aren't. I'm working. I've been 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.800 watching a lot of English TV. I'm just waiting to 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.639 say boot and car park not gonna happen. That happened. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.080 So Bridget's body was actually found on February sixteenth, nineteen 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.200 sixty five, so there's a bit of a gap there. Well, yeah, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.600 that's three months from almost three or four months from 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.760 the prior body he kind of did. It was a 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.160 hop scotch. It's kind of weird, yeah, because the first 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.800 let's see, the first bodies were found within like a 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.800 week or two of each other, April eighth and April, right, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.639 The first body was February, right, Hannah was the first 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.880 official victim. Oh yeah, sorry, I'm looking at the wrong things. 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.840 So Elizabeth was like four years before, five years. So 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.760 Hannah was found in February, and then nothing until April, 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:02.320 and then two in April, and then nothing again until 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.639 July with Mary, huh, and then the November and then 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.320 February again, October and November. Well yeah, oh, you're right, right, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:16.320 that's right. She disappeared think in October. So yeah, there 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.200 was some It's weird because you you think there would 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.199 be that pattern investigation. There were two real quick right 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.040 after each other, and then nothing for a while. So 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.040 you almost wonder if maybe he actually had to just 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.720 be more careful because after you know, it was after 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.600 that second after the third body I guess was found, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.119 after the second one in April was found, the police 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.080 started saying, hey, we know there's a dude out there 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:43.160 killing ladies, Like yeah, yeah, they actually they took poured 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.159 tons of cops into the area, and they they had 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.600 surveillance vans like you know, concealed surveillance fans all over 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.560 the place, and they had women dressed up as prostitutes. Yeah. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.960 So they I mean, they definitely took it seriously. Yeah. 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.480 Oh yeah, and that that might be one of the 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.919 reasons the whole thing stopped. So guys, you know, it 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.480 makes the little hard to get away with these crimes 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.840 from there's thousands of cops hanging around. Yeah, they really 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.280 get in the way of your hobby, do they really do. 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.360 It's tend to go off and become like the Yorkshire 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.560 Ripper or maybe the you know, we're just British novel. Yeah, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.080 you find a different hobby. There's always that. Yeah. So 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.199 there's one last victim again, it's an unofficial victim, and 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.399 it was Gwyneth Rees and she was twenty two. She 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.520 was found on November eighth, nine sixty three, which is 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.560 obviously later than nineteen sixty five. I'm realizing that this 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:35.479 particular earlier. No, I meant later, so she should be 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:37.240 in there earlier. She should actually be at the beginning 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:43.160 to I'm sorry everyone. She's another outlier. Yeah, she I 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.040 can see more than the other one, Elizabeth. I think 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.520 I see Gwyneth a little bit more. She was twenty two. 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.080 She was found near the River Thames. She died of strangulation, 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.080 but with ligature marks, so that was inconsistent with Jack's 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.199 favorite way of just killing women. Uh and but she 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.760 did also have broken teeth. So you know. The other 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.080 thing we haven't talked about that was consistent among all 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.840 of these women, besides the manner of death and their occupation, 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:14.080 is that I remember looking at some stuff coming across 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:18.160