WEBVTT - We're Here We're Queer We Suck (feat. Mark Indelicato) 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.040 You walked so that Kurt on Glee could grapevine. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.160 That's right, she's sheen. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:19.800 I'm me no ma, not ny no, No, what is 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.840 your childhood tradah? I am a cook shocker. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.600 You know what's going down the floor like us round. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:41.400 Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.240 yesterday's pop culture today's takes. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:44.560 I'm Ra's Damu. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.280 And I'm Fran Toronto, And I don't know why I 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:54.880 like that. It's your birthday, Yeah, it's birthday sing to you? No, no, 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.960 please don't. I think it would be a great gift 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.560 for you to not sing wow. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.640 Well, but I'll let it slide with your birthday. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:06.840 Well you wouldn't let I don't know if you would 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:08.360 want Would you want me to sing to you on 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:08.839 your birthday? 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:09.200 Are you like? 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:09.480 This? 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:09.640 Is? 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.320 Actually? Like I feel like there are two different kinds 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.440 of people in this world. People that like happy Birthday 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.640 being sung to them and people that don't. 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.760 No, I mean, it's always mortifying, but I would rather 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:21.039 it happen than not happen. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:22.080 Do you find the same? 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.800 I mean I did sing I was, I did sing 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.360 Happy birthday to you last night at your birthday party, 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.120 But I wanted to give you a private sort of 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.560 Marilyn Monroe singing, oh okay version of it. 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.800 Oh, we were gonna sexy version. Oh I see, so 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.319 you were you were saving the sexy for this record. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.840 I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, you looked great. Yesterday I 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:46.360 asked all my friends to meet me at a bar 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.240 and dress glam, and I will say not very many 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.120 people were on theme, but you were on theme. Rose. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.960 Well, I did my version of glam, which was I 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.680 wore a dress, but I wore it over jeans. I'm 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.000 very much into that sort of like early two thousands 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:06.600 dress over jeans thing that's been happening. And Jill or 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.960 is that my dellery? Duff, it's all the girls, it is. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.000 Even when I did my Buffy rewatch recently, there was 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.240 an episode where Buffy was wearing a dress over jeans 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.720 and I was like, well, wow, mother says, so, then 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.880 I suppose it's what we're doing. Did you have fun 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.320 of your birthday party last night? I really did. 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:25.040 Yeah. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.840 I mean my goal was to just do something that 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.639 was casual and easy and had like food and drinks, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.480 and people could show up whenever and get a good 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.880 group picture. And you were able to sneak into the 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.639 group picture before you snuck off. 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:39.280 I was. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.720 I literally I left, I said goodbye to you, did 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.160 not to go bye to anyone else, and went and 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:45.880 got in my uber that was waiting for me at 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:46.240 the curb. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.280 You were like, You're like, and that's a wrap? Yeah? 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.240 How late? Did y'all stay at whatever? That place was 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.160 not that much longer? Honestly, we the night ended a 0:02:59.280 --> 0:02:59.959 nice and early. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.399 I said, you know that it would end at ten 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.440 because I didn't want people to like pull up late, 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.240 and I think we stay there until ten thirty. But 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.800 like you know, I don't know how you like to 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.600 do birthdays. I always throw something for myself, like every 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.280 single time, whether it's like a vacation or a party 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.040 or a bar meat or a dinner or something. But 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.880 I like that event to be not on my birthday 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.760 so that I'm not stressed on my birthday because I 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.640 feel like I've learned the hard way that like coordinating 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.679 and producing my own birthday party is time consuming and 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.480 stressful and not a good way to spend your birthday. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:35.640 I don't know. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.880 Usually we go on like a vaca or something I 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.960 feel like, but we've been. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.760 Do I know it feels weird not to be, you know, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.920 like in the desert somewhere celebrating your birthday this year. Well, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.200 I'm very happy that we'll be on Fire Island right 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:51.280 before my birthday, the. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.160 Simon, That's what I was just about to say. Yeah, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.880 Fire Island is going to be that moment. I honestly 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.760 was texting folks about, like folks that are maybe staying 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.160 at her house, trying to get those rooms filled. And 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.680 I'm so excited to go back. Rose like me too. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:13.120 I do think though, I'm fiending for a vacation and 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:17.240 I think I'm gonna have to go away before before 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:22.800 the summer. I really need to go somewhere, But I 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:23.600 don't know what to do. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.279 Are you eyeing anywhere in particular? 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:28.880 I don't know. I think I either want to like 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.080 fly somewhere and like do something, but that I also 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.760 I like don't necessarily want to like go by myself. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.719 And then I was thinking maybe of driving somewhere and 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:43.039 going to a spa that could be nice in a 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.839 hotel and just getting Spa treatments for a couple. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.960 Yeah, like Boutiqui spa hotel. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:51.960 yeah that's that's sexy, that's mixy. 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.800 Are you doing anything self carry for your birthday? Are 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.600 you self carrying lo? Yeah, I'm self carrying. Laurel and 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:01.440 I are gonna go. 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.640 We're gonna meet at the gym and do the hot 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.680 tub and sauna that are at my gym, and that's 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.480 what most do you go to? I will not say 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.440 on the pod I go to. We'll cut it tell 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.760 me yeah, yeah, Phoebe can bleep. I go to Brooklyn. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.320 It's very it's pretty. It's closer to you than it 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:21.600 is to me, actually. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.680 And that's good to know because I've been looking for 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.039 a gym. Do you recommend? 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:31.080 It's amazing and it's so bougie and really good vibes, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.320 like it's a pretty like there's a there's a lot 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.760 of queers, there, a lot of lesbians. I don't see 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.760 any dolls, but I never see dolls at the gym. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:41.080 Yeah. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.560 I don't really want necessarily to go to a gym 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:48.000 where I'll know a lot of people. Yeah, but you know, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.560 I don't like at the gym. I want to be invisible. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:58.040 Yeah yeah, and I am highly visible in my gym, 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.200 but I don't talk to anybody like I don't like 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.200 I kind of stay in my own lane and like 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.119 mind my own business. But I am very very loud. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.200 I'm I will Okay, I flirt. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:11.719 I know that that's a lie. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.680 I do flirt sometimes at the gym. It happens. I 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.440 do wear I also wear very loud clothing in the gym. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.480 I'll be I'll like wear a T shirt that's just 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.039 like it'll be like I don't know, it'll say like 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:28.719 drug addict transsexual not actually, but like we should we 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.679 should sell a drug addict transsexual TA shirt? 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.040 You should, Yeah, coming to like a virgin four twenty 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.920 sixty nine dot com. By the way, we have merch 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:37.919 at that website. If you want to go there and 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.960 buy some now. It would be a great birthday present 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:42.800 for Fran if you did that, and if you became 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.839 a Patreon at patreon dot com slash like yes, and 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.200 that is a great birthday present. Do you feel another 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:49.279 year older and wiser? 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:50.240 Yes? 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.600 Actually, Like I know that's kind of like a throwaway, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.840 like sometimes it's like a throwway thing to say or 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:00.320 thing to ask, but like I really feel so own. 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.880 And you know, anybody that listens to this podcast, I 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.840 think knows that I've just a lot has changed in 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.960 the last year. And I think last year, during my birthday, 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.760 this state that I was in, I state that you 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.840 were in, the literal state that I was in. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:21.240 The state of California. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.280 Yes, I was a different girl. I was identifying differently. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.360 I was not identifying differently, but like, I feel like 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.080 I was just kind of learning about who I was 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.200 and knowing who I was. And this year is just 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.040 like I really do know who I was, and I'm 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.560 comfied with who I am and like reveling in that. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.120 And I think that that's like a very like I'm 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.160 in my thirties thing. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.600 You know, that's so magical. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.520 But I mean, no one knows where in my thirties 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.560 and no one should ever know. So don't you dare 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.480 tell it where my age is shut down? 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:51.200 Fuck you better. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.040 We're bleeping that Phoebe, we're fleeting. We're bleeping. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.360 My age friend said last night that she always wants 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.560 her age to remain a mystery. 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.440 A mystery. So if you if anybody ever asked you, like, oh, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.400 I don't know, late twenties or something I don't know. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.120 Yeah, I go up, I say, oh, I think she's 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.760 like early forties. Yeah, then people are like, wow, she 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:11.000 looks so good for her as. 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.760 She looks so good for her age. Yeah, that is 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.280 that is the move. Yeah, but I don't have anything planned. 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.120 I'm like literally gonna run errands. I'm gonna get groceries, 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:22.800 I'm going to take care of Mysel'm going to clean 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.480 to my house this morning. Cut my flowers? 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.680 Did you start unpacking any of your boxes? I find virgins. 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.560 I finally went to frans new place last week for 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:32.240 the first. 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.880 Time, and it is lovely. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:36.520 You have so much space. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:37.400 I was gagged. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.360 I think probably our apartments have like roughly the same 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.120 square footage. You just yeah have walls, yeah yeah, and 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.960 I just have one off, but so much space. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.319 But you you do need to do. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.240 Some unpacking, I think the virgins I do. I'm like 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.640 really behind, but the virgins should know that we You 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.760 and I were watching with Laurel Charleston Mulin Rouge and 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.680 inducting her into that which may or may not she 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.400 had never seen it, yes, had never seen it. That 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.480 may or may not be like a virgin content later 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.400 at some point, but like God, I forgot that movie 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.600 is I think I I came to realize rewatching it again, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.160 that Moonlan Bruge is in my top five movies. I 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:21.960 think the top five. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.480 I wonder it's birthday, so let's hear the. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:34.000 Okay, Mulan Rouge, Moonstruck, cats don't dance. Oh god, I 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:39.000 don't know. Maybe that's the three I let said five. Yeah, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:47.080 we said five, yes, and Fran yes and fuck. I 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.280 feel like I have. I feel like when I think 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.600 about the things that define me, it's always like TV shows. 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.880 Is there anything that comes to mind for you that 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.600 we've talked about in the pod that was like a 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:58.360 big the Devil? 0:09:59.320 --> 0:09:59.680 Maybe? 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.280 No, I mean not. 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.960 Hercules Love Herculess is definitely in the top. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.280 Oh my god, girl, you got Hercules is one hundred 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:09.800 and ten percent in my top five. 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:10.160 Wow. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.600 Two of my top fives are cartoon movies. What does 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:13.200 that say about me? 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:14.240 Parts of the Caribbean? 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:15.679 Shut up. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.400 Wait, I'll think of the fifth. And if I think 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.360 of the fifth, then maybe it'll be you know, our 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:21.480 Patreon exclusives. 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:22.960 Okay, great? 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.080 Great, Speaking of which, today we have an episode that's 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.760 all about Ugly Betty, which is very exciting. It's Frans 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.360 Birthday spectacular and we are going to be talking with 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.480 Marcin Delacado, who played Justin Suarez on Ugly Betty, which 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:44.640 is very exciting, and we have some bonus exclusive little 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.360 tidbits from that conversation that will be available on our 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.320 Patreon And that's something you can come to expect from 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.640 our Patreon content is when we are doing these episodes 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.800 with guests, we will be cutting off some juicy little 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.200 tidbits and saving them for patrin On so you can 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.480 get even more of our conversation with that. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.400 Uh. I'm just so fucking stoked for this episode, Rose 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.040 and like for the Virgins, Ugly Betty, if you've never 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.120 seen it before, is a really a wild kind of 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:19.199 like rompy workplace workplace comedy. I would say it straddles 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.840 like sitcom and soap opera because it's based on a 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.640 telenovela called Betty La Fea and has a very telenovella 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.120 vibe in that like a lot of like the plots 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:35.200 and character arcs are very absurd and like ridiculous, But 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.160 the story follows obviously Betty Suarez and her family, which 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.720 includes Markin Delocado as her nephew and that she you 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.200 know is an assistant at a high end magazine called 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.240 Mode that's kind of like Vogue, and the whole vibe 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.520 is very like devilwars Prada as a TV show. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.240 Yeah, because it came out in fault. It came out 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:57.800 in fall two thousand and six, and then Double War's 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.320 product came out summer two thousand and six, so it 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.440 was definitely riding the wave of that, and the douvors 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.920 Prada had been a book sensation, so like that kind 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.719 of fashion ee workplace comedy was very in vogue, if 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.600 you will, especially with Sex and the City having wrapped 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.400 up just a couple of years before. Like that was 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.400 the time and pop culture where everyone was on the 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.800 hunt for the next Sex and the City and Ugly 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.600 Betty is definitely like playing in that world a little bit. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.280 And I will say this show is very important to Rose, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.959 extremely important to me, and I'm happy to announce that 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.000 in this episode we are starting, you know, a platform 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.400 wide like mandate to do Ugly Betty rewatches. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:44.160 Okay, yes, you. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.839 Can watch it on Hulu. I did a rewatch last 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.040 month and I really enjoyed myself. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.720 Also, excuse my language, this is not a mandate to rewatch. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.679 This is a trend date to rewatch. It's a trend date, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.439 it's a FRAN dated, It's a fran date. I everybody 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.679 needs to be rewatching, like you gotta Rose, You got 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.240 to push pause on the girl's rewatches. Okay, and we 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.480 need to you know, we need to. I already we 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:08.360 need to watch. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:09.839 I know. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.600 But I'm saying this because because you're one of the 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.880 primary influencers of girls rewatches, it's you and Hunter Harris 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.679 really pushing, really pushing that yes it is. And I 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.320 think that, well, it's not your fault, it's just your work. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.240 And I think that you know, your energies could be 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.680 maybe like put behind Ugly Betty. You know, a marginalized 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:36.760 Latin trans story, you know trans story, Yes, yes, a 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.720 trans story. There's trans people in this show, and there's 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.240 Latin people in this show. And you know it's true. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:42.800 There are. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:50.920 I mean not real trans people, but at least trans characters. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:57.079 Happy Birthday friend. I wait for this episode to relive 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.600 this conversation with markin Delacado, who you may know and 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.040 virgins you may know, if not from Ugly Betty from Hacks. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.640 And this is so exciting. We've never talked about a 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.120 cultural object like this with someone who was part of it. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:35.080 That's insane. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.840 It's been like fifteen years. I don't think that anyone is. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:42.320 I don't think that ugly Betty is going to get 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:42.800 me in trouble. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.000 When you say get in trouble, do you mean like 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.240 get in trouble in this era of your life as 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.880 in the adult part of your career? Are you talking 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:51.240 about like. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.280 Yeah, any No, I think like now, I mean I 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.200 just like I mean, when I was a kid, you know, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.520 like I didn't really say anything that was controversial or anything. 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.160 I feel like now I have to temper myself. But 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.520 I'm sober right now, so like I think that I'll 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:06.040 be okay. 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.840 Oh we love that Rose is also not not drinking. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.600 We love we love. Oh you mean like sober in 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.800 this very moment. Sober in this very moment. You're like, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.840 I'm sober right now? Okay? 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:18.120 Yeah? 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.960 Yeah, yeah, cool? Cool? Cool? So can I can I 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:22.600 even ask? I don't know if this is the place 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.120 to start, but like, what's your so what's your relationship 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.920 to like Betty? Looking back on it, is it is it? 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:29.720 Like I know that it was like heat They were 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.080 like fam for you. They still are fam for you. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.800 Yeah, yeah, they're still fam. I mean I think that 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.640 the show, like I feel like we've because it's been 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.720 so many years since the show's been off the air, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.920 like we've really stayed family. So like I feel like 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.160 my relationship to the cast and like especially like on Ortiz, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.640 who's like my best friend in the whole world. She 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.000 like it's so separate from Ugly Betty now, like because 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.400 we've known each other longer off the show than we 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.520 have like when we were actually doing it, Like we 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.520 only did the show for four years, and I mean, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.440 looking back at it, like I couldn't watch I still 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.360 haven't seen like a lot of the episodes. WHOA really 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:13.400 I've seen. I've seen three episodes. I've seen the first episode, 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.840 the last episode, and the wedding in season four. Those 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.200 are the only three episodes I've ever said. 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.280 Okay, okay, back up. So you're the virgin, so we're. 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:26.960 Gonna tell you. I mean, I was there, but I 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.800 was in every episode you were. You were there? Yeah, 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:32.600 I was there. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.160 I mean I remember I remember like what like the 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.200 plots and everything and the storylines, but I just never 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.480 watched it because I was so like I was so 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:47.800 embarrassed by being on TV, which I know sounds like 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.240 an asshole thing to say. I actually like just like 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.760 I was so embarrassed, like but like it was very 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.000 It was very much like that because I feel like 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:02.040 there they were very formative years where kids are assholes anyway, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.119 you know, like eleven, I was eleven until I was sixteen, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.240 So like, those are pretty shitty years for everyone. 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.320 Everything's embarrassing, ugly beddy coming out in two thousand and seven, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.600 A lot of not great things about that, media wize, 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.840 a lot of not great things about that for you 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.800 as a child actor. Something that's amazing about having rewatched 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.320 the show so many times, especially now in like twenty 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:31.040 twenty three, deliciously problematic joke, Oh problem amazing, incredible. I like, 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.840 and I don't say this with any facetiousness, Like sometimes 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.439 I really do not all the jokes, but sometimes I 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.119 miss this era where you could say anything, because the 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.119 thing about making jokes that are like crazy or problematic 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.720 or just feel dated now is that sometimes. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.880 No, I love it, and I miss that era of TV. 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.600 I mean I as you know, as a trans person, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.960 I love every tranny she mail joke, may on ugy Betty. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.119 I wish we were still making them today. 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.280 I mean, I remember one that sticks in my mind 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.679 of like a problematic joke. I think it was Wilhelmina 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.440 that said something about Betty like and a mud hut 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.000 or something like that, like something so wild and like. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.520 The thing is, though, is that, Like, Yeah, I think 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.240 that there are plenty of things that obviously don't hold 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.639 up now, but I think that, like it's so important 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.240 to have had that, Like, you can't learn from anything 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.800 unless it's like out there, do you know what I mean? 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.040 Like we can't like have like comprehensive conversations about like 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:42.960 political correctness and like representation and like and language, et cetera, 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.639 like without examples of it being wrong out or like 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:47.840 being out there. 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:48.479 Do you know what I mean? 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.960 You can't grow from something that isn't out there and 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.280 being like interrogated, you know. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:53.760 Yeah. 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.239 And it's not like it was problematic and bad. It 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.720 was still always funny. It was the story Listen. 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:03.119 It was like one of the it was like the 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:04.080 most popular show on. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.320 TV, Like, and I think that, like, yeah, I mean, 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.160 and the thing is is that, yeah, like you can't 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:09.879 say a lot of the things that we said on 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.639 there then, But like at the same time, you know, 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.199 I think that people are just so quick to be like, 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.040 we can't watch this anymore because they said one thing 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.000 that can be read as like transphobic or like where 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.679 it's just like girl, I mean, like take it for 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.719 what it is and for what it was, Like you 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.120 just let it live is what it was. 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.840 And put it in put it in the context of 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.800 its time. You can still. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.760 Appreciate it exactly like Ugly Betty as it was would 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.119 never come back in the same way, do you know 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.879 what I mean? Like we we've had these discussions before. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:43.399 It would be like and just like that. 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.919 Girl, and like I don't know about all that, you 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.240 know what I mean, and just like that it's not right. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:51.280 It's just like that. 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.200 You know. Well, look, if you ever if you ever 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.639 hear back about the Ugly Betty rebate, you better loot me. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:00.920 In Divine we talk at it all the time. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:02.680 The thing is is that we all want to do 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.720 it and like it's it's really it's I mean, we're 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.520 all asked about it so often and literally every single 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.960 one of us says, you know, completely seriously, like we 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.119 would do it. It's just a matter of like what 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:17.840 is it? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like we 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.800 and we've had we've like when we get together, we 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:26.200 have these like kind of hypothetical discussions about like would 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.399 it be like of a reboot of just like one season, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.840 like a limited series, like of like five episodes, would 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:34.680 it be a movie? 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:36.920 Would it be? Like what would it be? 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.600 And I think that everyone has kind of agreed that 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.320 we would like to do like four or five like 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.920 episodes and like you know, four or five like hour 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.560 long episodes and like wrap up like all of the 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.240 loose ends that were not wrapped up at the end 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:55.879 of the season, of the end of the series. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.480 Because I will say, I will say I want more 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.240 and I would love a reboot, Like I think a 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.200 limited series sounds amazing. But I also think Ugly Betty 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.240 is a great example of a show that while I 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.560 think it was gone too soon, like it never got 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.760 the chance that I think, unfortunately a lot of long 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.440 running shows had back before everything got canceled after two seasons. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.639 It never got the chance to get bad. It was, oh, 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.680 it was good. It was perfect the entire time it 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:25.280 was on air. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.400 It's very like, I mean, we were so sad when 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.200 it ended, because it ended so abruptly, like they just 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.159 kind of like I mean to be honest, like the 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.000 network just fucked us and like just kept moving it 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.280 around and like so viewership was lost. And then you know, 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.240 you can argue like, well you just don't have the ratings, 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.600 and it's like, well, you moved us from Thursday to 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.760 Wednesday to Friday within the matter of a month, you 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:49.680 fucking idiots, Like are you hidding? So, like, of course 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.359 people don't know where to find it, Like when it 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.240 was on Thursdays at eight, you moved it to Wednesdays 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.959 at ten and then Fridays at nine. It's like no 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.000 one knows where to find the show. And like also 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.320 so this is before streaming services, so like there was 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.600 no like you can watch it on Hulu the day after, 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.920 Like that didn't that wasn't a thing. So like, yeah, 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.720 viewership was lost at the very end because we no 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:14.359 one knew where to find us. And I think it 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.600 was just an excuse. Again, like while when you have 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:21.560 things that are so revolutionary and break all of these 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:27.080 barriers and make people like question things and and kind 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.760 of like look inward at themselves and the ways in 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.040 which like they look at other people like there's going 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.400 to be backlash to all of that. And I think 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:39.080 that while Ugly Betty had so much, so much, so 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.240 many fans and like such a huge fan base and 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.639 inspired so many people, et cetera, you know, there's the 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.680 flip side to that, and a lot of people really 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.880 didn't like it. And I mean, I think that there's 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.359 also it's very parallel again to like the conversations that 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.879 we're having now about like banning drag shows and like 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:03.840 you know, like trans like transrites period. You know, there 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.560 there was like a lot of conversations when we were 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:12.119 making the show about Justin being a sexualized character of it, 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:17.199 like grooming children, like all of those same things and 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.960 rhetoric that we hear now it's just utterly hysteric that 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.639 we'd used. It's just recycled. It's just for just applying 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.960 it to different things. So it's like or to different communities. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:34.960 Like Justin was considered to be this overtly sexualized child, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.880 but like in reality, the you would only looking at 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.720 him as being sexualized means that you're sexualizing him, do 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:44.400 you know what I mean? 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:45.280 Like, I don't think there's a. 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.760 Show where the writers explicitly made him a sexual. 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:50.280 Now when that critique would never be applied to a 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:51.520 straight character ever. 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:53.200 Correct. 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:57.000 I mean, you know two gays too, like boys kissing, 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.000 It was just be it was considered to be like 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:01.480 grooming and this and that and you know, all of 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:04.399 the language again that we hear today in reference to 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.880 like drag, trans people, gender affirming healthcare. 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.880 Et cetera, et cetera. Like it's it's it's the same ship. 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:12.879 And we just want to say for the record, like 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.520 right here and now that like ugly Betty did groom me. 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:19.280 I am gay because. 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:21.880 I love Justin. I'm so happy that perfect. 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:25.920 Yeah, I'm gay because of Justin. I'm trans because of 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:26.800 Rebecca Romains. 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:36.960 She is motherless, Meed is lord girl. 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:39.800 And I'm gonna keep my mouth up. 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.359 On one Rose Rose, And I have said before Rebecca 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:47.359 Romaine is Transcannan because she was also Mystique, which is 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:48.680 a conically trans. 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.119 Character and she and like it's right, I didn't even think. 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.400 Of it, Yes, canonically trans, and like that's fucking fear. 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:59.119 We're not gonna, you know, wade into the weeds of 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:01.320 like you know, trans. Yeah, I'm surely try to do 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.399 all that, we're not going to do that, but we 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:07.440 have to say, like trans vengeance is something that is 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:11.120 underrepresented in media. And if I could fake my own 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:15.040 death in a ski accident and come back as a woman. 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:19.720 And you come back and a white late and paintball people. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.120 And put myself on the cover of my own magazine 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.600 and be like I am here and I own fifty 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:27.119 one percent of this company. All of you family members 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:28.600 that like ousted me before. 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.040 You didn't believe in me, You don't fuck with you, 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:30.760 you said. 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.320 You would disown me. It's over for all of you, Like, 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:34.680 don't fuck with me. 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.400 So I do hope I get the chance to pick 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:40.080 what I death one day. But then the gag will 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:40.720 be that I'll. 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:42.040 That sounds pretty fierce. 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.359 We'll see I so literally, like I I That's what 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:48.440 I was kind of getting at with the two thousand 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.040 and seven thing is like I would absolutely love to 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.000 watch a show in twenty twenty three about a trans 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.159 woman that fakes thrown death and comes back, you know 0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:59.600 what I mean, Like that's iconic, that's amazing, Like but 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:02.280 it's because you know, we have these ideas of like 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:05.840 representation that get where we tiptoe around the stories or 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:08.040 were like we were just like too scared about what 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:10.040 we can happen. Like I don't know if anybody would 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:11.040 ever do that again, And I like. 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:13.560 Know, we need we need more, we need trans villains, 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:16.320 and like it's it's so funny because at the time 0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:20.200 the culture had the ability to have a trans villain 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:26.119 because you know of mainstream transphobia and just like the 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.359 lack of representation. But it actually was because of that 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:33.359 that we got to have this like delicious character in 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.520 a way that I don't know, I don't regular exist 0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:39.040 today because people would be too scared of. 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:42.600 Being I mean, I think that like the only way 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:47.240 that like to in my opinion, representation is only going 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:51.480 to be complete and well rounded if you see people 0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:56.480 in every in like playing every role, like everything can't 0:26:56.520 --> 0:27:00.480 you can't. Every trans character can't be a victim or 0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:05.320 we only see trans people as victims. Like there are 0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:07.520 plenty I have met plenty of trans people. 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:13.280 That sucks. Yes I'm one of them. I've met plenty 0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:14.840 of stray people that fucking suck. 0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:17.480 The boys suck, like you know what I mean, Like 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:19.840 people like people are people, and like the thing is 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:24.480 is that you can't fully humanize someone or a community 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:29.359 without seeing all different facets of like the human like identity, 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:33.399 like of like the human condition. People suck period Like 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:39.760 people that suck. I mean, listen, I'm like, I really 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.919 truly like feel like you can't. It's not well rounded 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.920 representation unless you see all different facets of like the 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.399 human condition. And some people just fucking suck. It doesn't 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.399 matter what their identity or their pronouns are. 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:52.560 Say say that. 0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.119 Okay, you know I have to I have to ask 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:59.240 what was it like working with Vanessa Williams, Because I mean, 0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:01.560 if you want to talk about the mother of mother's. 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:02.359 That, let's talk about. 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:02.560 Yeah. 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:04.400 I was about to be like, well that's mother. 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.960 And then Judith's other mother will get to her. Oh man, 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:12.000 well Vanessa Williams. The thing is is that when we started, 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:16.720 I I was a huge fan of America Frearra because 0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:19.960 sister heard of the Traveling Pants out that maybe a 0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:23.879 year or two before and before that got to kick 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:25.240 it up on the Disney Channel. 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:26.120 Was my tea. 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.520 So like when I met her, like that's the only 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:33.080 person that I knew who and I was like like gobsmacked. 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.520 But like when we went to set and my mom. 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:37.760 My mom was obviously with me, and Vanessa was there. 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.160 I had no idea who Vanessa Williams was, and my 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.400 mom was like freaking out by her. And I was like, 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:46.160 who is this and she was like, you'll you'll know someday. 0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:50.680 She was like, you'll you'll understand someday. And the thing 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:55.000 is is that Vanessa is just a very regal individual. 0:28:55.600 --> 0:29:00.520 Like she is she's the nicest, most caring, nurture person. 0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:03.520 But the bitch is scary, like when you first like 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.720 just just because she like looks like that, and like, 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:11.680 is just she's established mama, Like she's just she and 0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:13.800 she knows she she knows what she's giving. 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:15.719 She knows she is the divadal herself. 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:18.720 That's right, and like, but I so I think that 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:23.000 I was quite afraid of her for a minute. But 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.720 I think that that very quickly dissipated when I got 0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:31.360 to work with her, because it was in the very 0:29:31.440 --> 0:29:33.560 beginning of the show, in the first season, like it 0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:37.160 was kind of divided, like mode family, you know whatever. 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:40.680 And then slowly but surely, as the season progressed and 0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:42.840 then the series progressed, like they we all kind of 0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.680 intertwined with each other, and my first bit was with 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:51.160 Michael Yuri and Becky Newton, and then that quickly went 0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:54.920 into Justin and Wilhelmina kind of working together and kind 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:58.200 of talking. Like I remember shooting the bit where she 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:02.640 she was wearing a blue outfit and she had sunglasses. 0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:04.880 She was I knew, I knew you couldn't see I knew. 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:06.160 You were going to say this episode where you were 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.920 the seeing I gay Mark or like I think Mark 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:10.360 was the seeing I gay Mark. 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:12.360 And then you took go and then he left, yes, 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.160 and so and that was again it was crazy because 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.600 I was so intimidated by her, and it becomes so 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:22.440 quickly comfortable with like Anna and America and Tony Plana 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:25.400 that like going in and working with like like I 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:28.280 think at the time, Michael Ury in the first season, 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:31.200 Michael Ury's the age that I am now. So Michael 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.480 was twenty eight when we first started filming the show. 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:36.720 So and that's how old I am right now. So 0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:42.280 like I think that, Uh, I think that it's also 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.400 kind of funny to think about, like me now working 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:47.760 with like an eleven year old. I'd be like, oh, 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:51.760 you know, like it could be very like ugh, you know, 0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:55.080 like and I like, I get that now, and so 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.400 I think that, like, and the thing is is that 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:00.720 it wasn't like that at all. They were so patient 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.560 with me, you know, because you can only be so 0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.560 professional as a kid. You know, like you're just stoked 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:09.840 to be there and like you're you have all this energy, 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.280 you're super hyper, but like there's also all of these 0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:14.840 logistics to consider, Like I could only work a certain 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:17.560 amount of hours a day, so like I would they 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:19.240 would shoot all of my stuff and then the rest 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:21.440 of them would have to be there to finish, ok, 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:23.080 and like finish the scene. 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:26.880 So like they were very, very very patient with me. 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:32.240 And I think that that was also it it informed 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.680 the way that I kind of work now and my 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:38.400 professionalism now because I looked at the ways in which 0:31:38.480 --> 0:31:41.760 these people were chipper and happy to be there to 0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:44.479 do their job. But also like, you know, when it's 0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:46.680 time to shut the fuck up and act, it's time 0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:48.640 to shut the fuck up and act. Look, I mean, 0:31:48.720 --> 0:31:51.160 and I learned that from Vanessa too. Like Vanessa was 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:53.720 very she's the first, she's the first one to want 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.880 a key, key, But when it's time to like get 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:59.280 the job done, mama, let's get get it done, you know. 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:03.320 The someone saying you know, you'll know some day about 0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:06.080 like Vanessa Williams is like that was definitely my experience 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:09.840 as well. Vanessa one, Yeah, I found. 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:15.520 I I literally liked has come. I So Betty was 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:16.400 my first. 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:19.040 Impression of Vanessa Williams, which is crazy because she's an 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:21.240 icon of legend, has like a whole breadth of work 0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:23.600 that preceded it, and like, but I do. It was 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:27.080 retroactive for me as well, because I remember just watching 0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:29.320 it and being like, she's an icon, She's so magnetic. 0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:31.760 Everything she says is funny, and even as I rewatched 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:37.320 this past month, like every single fucking joke is so funny, 0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:39.520 and and and when by the time they got to 0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:44.400 season three and season four there were the guardrails around 0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:48.440 the propriety of Wilhelmina were like let down a little bit, 0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.320 and she got to be wackier and whackier. I'm thinking 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:54.200 about like when she, you know, met the drag queen 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:56.880 that does impressions of her and then she did like 0:32:56.920 --> 0:32:59.280 a whole you know, song and dance about it, or 0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:04.640 like she just or or in the fourth season where Betty, 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:07.960 I mean America is finally looking like America basically, and 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:10.240 she looks gorgeous and she has taste now and like 0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:12.480 Wilhelmina notices that she has taste and it gives her 0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:15.000 an aneurysm and she collapses and goes to the hospital. 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:16.320 It's like so much. 0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:17.600 That's the thing too. 0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:22.280 We I think that also, Like the great thing about 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:28.480 Silvio was that, and the writers, like all of the writers, 0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:35.040 was that as we like, they really believed in everyone's 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:38.720 individual talent and like and and really like honed in 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:42.440 on what we were all good at and like ran 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:45.280 with that. And I feel like the you know, we'll 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:46.920 talk about it in a bit, but like Hacks is 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:50.280 the same exact way, like Paul Lucia and Jen is 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.720 now that we're filming the third season. From season one 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:55.560 to now, they you get in a groove with people 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:59.200 and you like working with them so closely you're like, oh, 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:02.040 why don't they do that? Because there, you know, I 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.160 saw a glimpse of that when we were like sitting 0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:06.800 around like talking or whatever, you know, And I think 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:10.640 that at first, you know, the Wilhelmina character was very 0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:16.120 intentionally cold, distant, not very silly, like not very silly, 0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:19.680 extremely hilarious, but like not silly. And then, as you 0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:22.640 you know, get to know a person like Vanessa, who 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:26.680 is very whimsical as an individual, You're like, oh, why, 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:29.719 like let's play into that, Like, let's let her do 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:31.920 something silly because she can. 0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:35.400 She's an incredibly gifted comic actress. Just the way she 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:39.840 uses her body, the way she uses her eyes is incredible. 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:42.360 A look, I mean a literal look, you know. 0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:44.640 And I think that that is like they played to 0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:47.240 all of those strengths of her being like this bitch 0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:52.239 and this like bitchy devilwares prodra Miranda Priestley type of 0:34:52.400 --> 0:34:56.839 like archetype, but like really expanded upon that and let 0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.520 her have like a lot of fun. And I think 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:01.480 that that is like and they let us all do that. 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:05.560 I mean, Ana Ortiz is like the epitome of like 0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:09.560 just comedic genius and that like more is more and 0:35:09.680 --> 0:35:13.880 bigger is better and somehow it never Hilda never became 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.479 like gimmicky, even though she was doing the absolute most 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:20.360 all the time. And I think that that as like 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.640 a comedic actor, to be able to toe that line 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:27.719 between complete absurdity but grounding it in reality is like 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:30.560 the is truly like genius. 0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:33.120 And also having I mean, I was so happy earlier 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:34.520 when you said that the two of you are still 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:35.680 so close because. 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.680 I think I have her tattooed on. 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.680 That, because like your relationship on the show was I 0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:43.800 think one of the emotional cores of the show. And 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.960 one of the things that I loved about Ugly Betty 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.279 and I think that endoored is that it's this like 0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:54.400 wacky screwball comedy but it has so much heart without 0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:59.440 becoming cloying much and it felt real and it's so 0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.360 nice to know that it was and that that has endured. 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:08.440 Yeah, Anna, Like I think that you know, we became 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:12.000 so close so quickly because that was her doing. Like 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:14.120 I think from the first table read, it was like 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:16.759 you're gonna play my son. We need to get to 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:20.360 know each other, and again like that whole feeling like 0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:22.359 you have a seat at the table as a kid, 0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:24.800 where like you're not being put at the kid's table, 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:27.440 Like I think that that was a little bit it. 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:29.759 There were moments where it was very jarring for me 0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.560 to be treated like an adult, but I'm so much 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:37.399 better for it because they all treated me like I'm 0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:40.440 now treated as an adult working, so like I kind 0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:44.080 of got that education really early, and you know, there 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:47.520 were some times where like there was one time that 0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:50.080 I forget what it was, but it was like getting late. 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:50.879 It was like later. 0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:53.600 No, it was early in like season two or something, 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:56.920 and Anna said something. I forget what it was, but 0:36:57.080 --> 0:36:59.920 like it was it was kind of harsh, and I 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:03.000 I like remember, I like started crying and it was 0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:05.600 like this one thing where we and we've talked about 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:07.839 it like since, where she was like, I just got 0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:10.960 so used to treating you like an adult that like 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:13.719 I forgot that you were a twelve year old kid 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:17.120 and like but and so while like that's just an 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:19.200 example of how jarring it could be as a kid, 0:37:19.560 --> 0:37:22.000 Like I'm so much better for it, because, you know, 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:25.520 I feel like as I became a teenager and we 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:28.560 finished the series on and I you know, she made 0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:33.960 me a better actor. Like I really wanted to impress 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.960 her and I wanted to be a good scene partner 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:40.840 for her, and I think that like I wouldn't have 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:44.240 gotten there if she didn't treat me like she treats 0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:46.719 any other actor. You know, Like I wasn't given a 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:48.360 pass because I was a kid, and I think that 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:50.040 that's like that's a good thing. 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:14.680 Yeah, you know, you you've only seen three episodes of 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.680 Uglybody I have. I have to tell you, you know, 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:21.799 just just because you haven't seen them, that in case 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:25.000 you weren't aware, you Slade like you you you are 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:30.440 just you Slade. You are a scene stealer, girly like 0:38:30.600 --> 0:38:31.239 holding your. 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:35.720 Own against some very impressive and I must I imagine 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:37.040 intimidating actors. 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:40.600 Yes, so whether you are like performing hairspray on the 0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:44.239 empty a or like you know, like all of the shit, 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:46.520 Like you are just such a scene stealer. You are 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:51.640 so magnetic and so big, and yet it's not like imbalanced, right, 0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:55.160 you were always like matching the energy of everyone around you, 0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:58.279 and I think that's the same in hacks, Like damn 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.279 you were just you're so good And I'm honestly I'm 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:05.200 resisting like fangirling to the to the best of my 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:08.080 ability in in this in this year record. But like 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.840 you you have to have to know that, like like 0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:15.480 I was justin like I'm not a gay boy anymore, 0:39:15.600 --> 0:39:17.840 but like I was that and like I know, like 0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:22.200 it sucks being I know so many of my friends 0:39:22.280 --> 0:39:24.080 now that you know that are in the public eye, 0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:25.960 and you know, being a role model is such like 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:31.719 a weird, like kind of strenuous thing. Yeah, but like I, 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:35.600 you know, grew up in a family that didn't understand 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:39.360 queerness and then didn't you know, accept and it's this 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:42.040 is like a very Latin thing too, righte Like there's 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:44.320 there wasn't a ton of like nuance or acceptance or 0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:49.000 like even conversations about like queerness at all, because you know, 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.920 at least with my household, there's a lot obviously like 0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:54.080 a lot of machismo, but it was mostly like we 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:56.880 don't talk about it saying and that was something that 0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:01.880 was really beautiful about Justin and his character. And you know, 0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:06.720 I I feel like I just grew up with Betty 0:40:06.800 --> 0:40:09.719 and grew up with Justin and and had and much 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:13.600 like you, I also had a high school romance, like 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.320 and I had a high school romance with someone that 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.759 I was in a play with, like and our first 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:20.520 kiss was literally. 0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:23.600 On a stage, so you really were him? 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.560 Yes, our first kiss literally was on a stage. It 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:30.920 was crazy crazy. But I've said this on the pod before. 0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:34.520 I work in media because of Ugly Betty. I watched 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.360 ugly Betty pre college and I just remember watching America 0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:42.080 Ferrera get like treated like shit in like the magazine industry, 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:43.040 and you know. 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:44.800 You said I want to I said that. 0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:47.000 I was like, and I want to go do that. 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.439 And what's like absolutely insane is like only I'm only 0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:54.160 realizing this on my most recent rewatch. I did not 0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:56.640 realize this in real time or even with my second rewatch. 0:40:57.080 --> 0:41:02.359 Looking back retroactively, I went thrue so many real ass 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:06.000 Teyle Novela asked things that happened in media actually happened 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:09.160 to me, like editor rivalries, like I went to like 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.200 a publishing boot camp that like Betty also went to, 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:17.600 like transvengean stories like photoshoot drama, like booking cars from Brooklyn, 0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.320 Brooklyn to Manhattan to Brooklyn to Manhattan, like you know, 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.600 getting too close to your boss, Like oh my god. 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.160 That's like Another crazy thing about the show is like boundaries, 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:28.880 like a boundary. The fact that Betty, like they doesn't 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:32.239 have boundary, did not exist, they don't have boundaries, has 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.880 no boundaries with her work or her family. Is like 0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:37.360 the coming out, like the fact that they wanted to 0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:40.840 throw justin a coming out party, like it's just like 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:42.080 no fucking boundaries. 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:42.359 Oh. 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:44.680 One of my favorite lines in the show is in 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:48.560 that episode where Ignacio says, the guys don't have a 0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:49.200 favorite color. 0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:51.960 They like them all, they like them all. We know 0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:53.320 you're gay, and that's okay. 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:56.040 I also, though, we also have to talk about the 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:59.200 way that I mean, we have to talk about the 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:03.800 fashion of Ugly and the way that it predicted literally 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:06.000 everything happening in fashion right now. Like I go on 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:08.920 TikTok and I see like tiny Jewish Girl and all 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:13.120 these other like maximalist girlies, and like Ugly Betty was 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:14.240 the pink print period. 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:14.680 I mean. 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:17.719 The thing is is like, I mean, Patricia Field girl, 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:19.040 what hello? 0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:19.880 You know? 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:22.400 And people mean enough said, people. 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:25.480 Are not giving pat Fields credit in this show, like 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:27.400 they were only thinking about sex and the city and 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:28.840 all this other stuff she was. 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:32.040 Because the thing, well, the Devil Wars product came out 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:37.520 three months before Ugly Betty premiered, so and we I 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:41.360 remember honest saying to me like, if this movie's a success, 0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:45.680 our show is going to be a success. Like and well, wow, 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:49.040 you know the rest of it. But pat was is 0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.960 such a character, I mean, like she is an end 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:59.040 to work with. Her is to be like just I 0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:02.040 mean like GOB's act. Like we would go in and 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:06.040 have like I would have like two hour fittings, you 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:09.000 know with her and and she would sit I mean 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:12.520 she would sit on a chair with her dogs with 0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:16.359 a cigarette and just like and and she would put 0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:18.880 me in like the I mean, you know, things that 0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:21.080 would never get approved. Like there was a there was 0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.800 I remember we had to do like an outside scene 0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:29.040 and she had this huge black faux for like pimp 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:32.040 coat to the floor and was like, I think Justin 0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:32.600 would wear this. 0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:37.759 And they're like like no, like no, I mean. And 0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:39.759 the thing is too, is that, like I mean I 0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:40.360 was were I. 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:45.200 Think season three I exclusively wore Mark Jacobs, like all 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:47.719 Mark Jacobs and so and and the thing is is 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:52.680 that like Betty too. Like Betty's glasses, for example, they 0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:56.400 couldn't find the glasses, like they just they tried on 0:43:56.719 --> 0:44:00.600 hundreds of pairs. America tells this story, hundreds of pairs. 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.480 They couldn't find the glasses, and Pat took the glasses 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.600 off her face put them on America And those are 0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:07.400 Betty's glasses. 0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:11.279 You're shitting me. God, they were on Pat's face. They 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.640 were Pat's glasses. That's iconic. 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.440 That's that goosebumps. 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.759 Those were Pat's glasses and she put them on and 0:44:19.800 --> 0:44:21.200 they looked in the mirror and they were like, that's it. 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:22.759 Those are her glasses. That's the thing. 0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:27.520 And yeah, I mean America was also wearing like I mean, 0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:30.000 if you really look, if you like do if there 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.200 was like an instagram like every outfit on Sex in 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:34.800 the City or something for Ugly Betty, that was like 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:38.280 breaking down these looks. Like Betty would be wearing upwards 0:44:38.320 --> 0:44:40.680 of ten thousand dollars worth of clothing, and she was 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:43.120 wearing like Gucci skirts, and I mean she was wearing 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:47.239 like new fashion. Yeah, yeah, like I mean, and and 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:49.640 the thing is is that Pat is truly the queen 0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:52.600 of like the high low, you know, like you would 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:56.560 be wearing a Versace suit but like you know, put 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.560 it with like a belt that she found on Canal Street, 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.800 you know whatever. And and her entire team like Molly 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.400 and Paolo and Jackie and all of them, like they 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:09.800 also spoke like this shorthand with each other too. That 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:13.440 was like so incredible to see, like from even like 0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:16.359 are the people that would dress us like Kevin Mark, 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:20.759 I remember like they were all so stoked to like 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:23.879 work with her, and I think that like it wasn't 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:28.719 lost on anyone, like the legendary legend status of miss 0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:32.279 pat and like no one does it like her, like no, 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.840 and no one has done it since like her. I 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:39.040 think that there have been very valiant attempts to try 0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:40.480 and do what Pat Field. 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:43.320 Does and just it just doesn't. It's just not that 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:47.040 once in a generation kind truly like she was. She 0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:47.800 was the moment. 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:51.080 And and also in speaking to like this kind of 0:45:51.680 --> 0:45:54.200 what you were saying Fran about like not of their 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.960 not being like one favorite character or like one per 0:45:57.080 --> 0:45:59.400 I mean, of course the show was about Betty, but 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:05.160 like no one was also given like preferential treatment based 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:08.239 on like like pat never looked at one character and 0:46:08.360 --> 0:46:10.279 was like this is a throwaway, like just put them 0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:14.880 in whatever, Like she and the team had true visions 0:46:15.200 --> 0:46:17.800 for like what each of these characters individually looked like, 0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:20.400 even like Ignacio, you know what I mean, And like 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:23.440 it wasn't it's not always just about like who was 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:26.399 wearing like the newest designer clothing, it's like what makes 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:29.520 sense for this character? And it was very very deliberate 0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:33.200 and very intentional. Like I think Hilda was probably one 0:46:33.239 --> 0:46:38.320 of my favorite, like aesthetically favorite characters because she was 0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:42.680 just so radically Hilda, Like there was no like and 0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:47.080 only Anna playing Hilda could wear those clothes in that 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:50.360 way and tell the story that it was telling, do 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.839 you know what I mean? Like it was it would 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:55.600 have been if if I wasn't playing Justin. I think 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:57.280 Justin might have looked a little bit different. 0:46:57.440 --> 0:47:01.560 The clothes never wore the character. The characters were the clothes, 0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:04.560 and it was such a like perfect symbiosis. 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:06.840 Yeah, I think that that and and I and I 0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:10.239 think that that just lends itself to like people that 0:47:10.560 --> 0:47:14.840 genuinely care about like their work too, you know what 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:17.000 I mean. Like there, I think that there was just 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:21.480 there's a true passion there and I and it's like 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:24.520 it was so inspiring to like be around too, because 0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:27.200 I mean, you know, we would see our like little 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:29.160 outfits and then you see like Vanessa walk out of 0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:32.919 her dressing room and like a vintage for sauce suit 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:35.640 and you're just like fuck, like so fierce. 0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:39.200 The clothes were part of this like authentication of the 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:43.080 characters really, and with Ignasio and Hilda, specifically, like those 0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:47.440 two characters were archetypes in a Latin family that were 0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:52.520 so scary close to just people in my life, people 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:54.759 in the lives of other folks that I know that 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:58.600 I've watched Ugly Betty, like I have an Ignossio in 0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:01.000 my life, like I have a Hilda in my life, 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:04.200 and like and something that you were saying, like you know, 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:06.520 they didn't they didn't have to. It wasn't just like 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:09.120 who's wearing the hottest designer clothes. I think that's something 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:12.040 that's so brilliant about like the language of clothes like 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:14.279 in this show is that, Yeah, it would have been 0:48:14.360 --> 0:48:17.239 too easy for you know, if Betty if like Ugly 0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:18.600 that they were made today, she'd be like, you know, 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.480 stomping out in like a Chipova luena like skirt or whatever, 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:25.880 like you would think, but like what to actually incorporate 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.520 thrifting and to know that, like Betty would wear this 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:29.840 butterfly belt right, like. 0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:32.920 Well, that's also like telling the story of like telling 0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:35.279 the story of how are these people getting And that 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:38.120 was also Pat had to has a distinct talent for that, 0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:40.359 Like when she would fight for things for us to wear, 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:42.839 it would be like, well, he can wear the mark 0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:46.760 Jacob's thing because he knows fashion and like found it somewhere. 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:48.520 He found it at Beacon's closet. 0:48:48.280 --> 0:48:52.160 Absolutely on, like you know, so like she also had 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:56.400 a backstory for how we got into these outfits, like 0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:59.239 what what the thought process was when each of these 0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:02.320 characters gets up in the morning and gets dressed, which again, 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:05.480 like that's just an amount, that's just an extracurricular work, 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:06.000 you know what I mean. 0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:08.880 And not all costume designers do that, like I've been no, 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:12.120 most of them do not. Yeah, I've been rewatching Buffy recently, 0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:15.520 and like they're in high school all wearing like Dulchanabana 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:19.719 and Prada, and I'm like, I don't know that teenagers. 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.080 Have access to that, and unless it's like a deliberate choice, 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:24.480 like unless it's just like the euphoria of it all, 0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:26.720 yeah know what I mean, Like where it's like okay, 0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:29.360 like I get it, like you've you've made this world 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:32.480 like this. But like I think that with with Ugly Betty, 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:37.799 they obviously wanted it to be fantastical in some way, 0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:43.279 but not necessarily like aspirational in the same way that 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:47.040 I think like fashion now kind of exists on like it, 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:49.840 like for in Euphoria, for example, it's like the intention 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:52.640 is that, like you want all like a bunch of 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:55.160 gen zs to like want to look like them, whereas 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:56.880 I feel like on Ugly Betty, like that was not 0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:00.479 necessarily the case, Like it wasn't that you want people 0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:03.400 to like want to dress like Wilhelmina or or Amanda 0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:07.280 or Betty. But if people identified with the characters because 0:50:07.320 --> 0:50:10.879 the clothes made so much sense to the character, then 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:12.760 it just tells a different story. 0:50:12.960 --> 0:50:14.280 I think it's just a deeper story. 0:50:15.360 --> 0:50:17.600 I do have such a deep spot in my heart 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:21.560 for Amanda. I know I love no favorites, but like 0:50:21.800 --> 0:50:24.240 Amanda was one of the I love Amanda. 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:26.279 I mean we always talk about like if we were 0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:28.440 to do a reboot that like Amanda would still be 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:31.520 the receptionist at Mode like that. She's like like we 0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:34.960 all like have changed and grown and are doing different things, 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:36.960 and Amanda is like just still the receptionist in the 0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:41.759 circle desk as long as Becky Newton can play one 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:44.920 or two additional characters like I'm good like her, I 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:46.800 mean Amanda. 0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:53.040 Oh my god, wish another storyline that could not happen today, 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:56.000 but it's so funny, so good. 0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:59.040 Like I'm sorry it was funny. I think it was funny. 0:50:59.120 --> 0:50:59.640 I don't care. 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:03.400 It was come for me another brilliant comic actress. 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:07.360 Oh my god, it was knowing it was knowingly stupid, 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.320 you know, I mean, and like, yeah, the thing like 0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:13.239 with like someone like Becky Newton too, is like all 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:16.600 of that the characterization that she did of Amanda, like 0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:20.200 physical manifestations of it, like the way she would like 0:51:20.280 --> 0:51:22.160 walk down the hallway with the hand on her hip 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:26.120 and like so exaggerated like runway like things like that 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:29.200 where you like, looking back, I'm just like, whoa. These 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:32.600 are such talented actors that had such a point of 0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:37.200 view about their character. Like I just I'm like in 0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:40.279 awe of like the just the choices that they made, 0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:42.920 even like and the way that Anna would walk as Hilda, 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:45.080 like that's not the way that she like it, you 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.440 know what I mean. It's just these very small things 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:51.399 that I recall that at the time I was just like, oh, 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:54.719 like whatever, they're doing it. But now having matured and 0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:57.760 like you know, thinking a little bit more critically about 0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.320 like my craft and like what it is that I 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.480 do for a living looking back at some of the 0:52:04.560 --> 0:52:09.640 choices that the Betty cast made, small choices like that 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:14.319 that just have become so synonymous with their characters as well. 0:52:14.480 --> 0:52:18.680 Like you think of Amanda like stomping down the tube, 0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:23.040 you know, in this very dramatic, like ridiculous way, but 0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:26.600 it's because it's like become canon as like that's Amanda. 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:29.800 Amanda slash Becky, like I think is a great example 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:33.600 of like just like what you can't write right, you know, 0:52:33.760 --> 0:52:36.520 like like like her the hand of the hip like 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.480 walk swish thing that you're talking about, like immediately in 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:42.480 my mind, I know what it looks like and and yeah, 0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:45.160 you can't write that, right you the character. 0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:46.319 Well no, I mean you can't. 0:52:46.400 --> 0:52:48.640 And the thing is is that to take something like 0:52:49.320 --> 0:52:53.520 you know, to take a stage direction, especially like Wilhelmina 0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:56.719 like looks Betty up and down or like things like that, 0:52:56.880 --> 0:52:59.920 like you know, sure that can be written into a scrap, 0:53:00.360 --> 0:53:05.400 but like the way that that materializes is up to 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:08.520 you or you know and so, and no one could 0:53:08.560 --> 0:53:10.320 do it the way that Vanessa Williams did it, Like 0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:14.759 Amanda like walks away like that's very vague, you know, 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:17.880 she could have but the choices that Becky made are 0:53:17.960 --> 0:53:21.279 like incredible, you know, I mean, and Michael URI's a 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:22.399 master at that stuff too. 0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:48.120 It's this it feels like it's similar to Hacks two, 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:51.560 where like you can tell that in the casting they 0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:54.719 were reaching out to people that already had a kind 0:53:54.760 --> 0:53:57.520 of way of inhabiting a set, a way of like 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:01.320 speaking talking, and that that helped their characters become so 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:02.640 specific and. 0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:06.240 Like I think in their world, I think that Hacks 0:54:06.320 --> 0:54:09.440 and Ugly Betty, I think that like I have, I 0:54:09.560 --> 0:54:13.960 immediately felt this kind of electric feeling going onto the 0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:17.399 set of Hacks because it felt so similar to Ugly 0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:22.000 Betty in just kind of the culture of like everyone 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:26.880 really got along from the jump. Everyone felt like I 0:54:26.960 --> 0:54:29.760 felt like there was a real notion that like everyone 0:54:29.880 --> 0:54:32.560 is here for a reason, no one is like as 0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:36.520 a throwaway character, Like everyone is important, and Paul Lucci 0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:39.240 and Jen like really hammered that home from the beginning. 0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:43.160 But I think that like the ways in which Ugly 0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:47.600 Betty might have told a story like the using clothing 0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:50.160 a lot of the time, and like, you know, I 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:53.200 feel like Hacks, that story is told a lot in 0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:57.279 like our candor each individual character's candor. I think Paul 0:54:57.400 --> 0:55:00.160 Lucci and Jen and the writers of Hacks are like 0:55:00.920 --> 0:55:03.920 probably the greatest writers I've ever gotten a chance to 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:07.759 work with. And because it's very rare that you read 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:12.080 a script and like laugh out loud, but we're constantly 0:55:12.160 --> 0:55:15.200 all like cracking up in these table reads because the 0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:20.399 words themselves are so fucking funny. And so I think 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:25.440 that it's each character has their own like, yeah, their 0:55:25.480 --> 0:55:28.120 own candor, their own like flavor, you know, And I 0:55:28.360 --> 0:55:32.920 that none of the other characters have, you know, like Ava, 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:36.880 you know, like Hannah Einbinder's like portrayal of Ava, and 0:55:37.000 --> 0:55:41.239 Meg's Dalters Kayla and Poppies and Poppies, Kiki and My, 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:46.200 Damien and Carls Marcus are all and and Paul's Jimmy 0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:50.720 like they all somehow meshed together, but like they couldn't 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:54.319 be more different. And I think that that also it's 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:56.840 really hard to do, you know, It's really hard to 0:55:56.960 --> 0:56:01.560 kind of like flesh out characters with out actively fleshing 0:56:01.600 --> 0:56:04.040 them out. Like I feel like one of the things 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:06.640 that was confusing to me when we first started Hacks 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.680 is that like Damien kind of pops in and out, 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:14.440 you know, and I've said this before, and I like 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:17.239 that Damien is kind of this enigma. I mean, we 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:19.080 learn a little bit more about him in season three, 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:22.560 but like not you know, but like I kind of 0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:25.600 like the idea of him being this person that's just 0:56:25.760 --> 0:56:28.160 like he comes to work, he does his job. He's 0:56:28.239 --> 0:56:30.800 good at it, and he doesn't have time for nonsense, 0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:35.160 you know, and doesn't like comedy. Yeah, And I think 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:37.640 that like there were like I think at first I 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:41.000 was searching for like who is he and like whatever, 0:56:41.080 --> 0:56:42.439 and I think that I was just being a little 0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:42.799 bit too. 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:43.680 Actory about it. 0:56:43.880 --> 0:56:46.640 Like I was just like it's all like everything that 0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:49.480 I need is right in front of me. Like he's 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:52.480 Deborah's assistant. He has no time for bullshit. He doesn't 0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:55.760 really like Ava, and you know, Marcus is his boss, 0:56:55.880 --> 0:56:58.560 and he has no time for people like Kayla or something, 0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:01.960 you know, like And I think that that to have 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:07.719 so little but no so much is a testament to 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.360 like apology and jen for sure, because I think that 0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:12.480 I was just so confused. It's like what is my 0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:15.120 what's my motive? And they were like to do your 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:18.680 job and I was like that's simple. But that's but 0:57:18.960 --> 0:57:20.400 like that that says so much. 0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:23.680 You know, it must be a great feeling to have, 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:27.880 you know, had this role an ugly Betty and like 0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:30.120 not been sure if you were going to come back 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:33.080 to acting and then come back on a show like 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:36.160 this where it seems like there are so many parallels 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:38.240 in terms of like the work you're getting to do 0:57:38.880 --> 0:57:41.480 and the community of people you get to do it with. 0:57:42.080 --> 0:57:45.280 Yeah, it's like, I mean, someone asked me recently, like 0:57:45.600 --> 0:57:47.560 how do you choose such great projects? 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:48.400 And I'm like, I did not. 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:51.960 I don't choose projects like I'm not there, you know, 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:55.440 like I I mean, after I graduated college, I realized 0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:56.919 that I didn't want to go to graduate school whatever. 0:57:56.960 --> 0:57:58.720 And I was like, I guess I'll move back to 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:01.800 LA and like try and make it work. And no 0:58:01.880 --> 0:58:03.760 one would hire me. Like I'm just going to be 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:06.560 like completely honest, Like no one would hire me. I 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:09.240 could not get a job, Like I wasn't even getting 0:58:09.360 --> 0:58:12.440 like a callback for anything. Like it was really bleak 0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:16.720 for like a few years. And then twenty twenty happened, 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:22.320 and you know, the pandemic, and I, you know, surely 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:27.120 wasn't working. And then I was like it was November 0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:29.560 and I was like, if I don't get a job 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:31.760 by January of twenty twenty one, I'm just going to 0:58:31.840 --> 0:58:33.840 have to like go back to school or like do something, 0:58:34.040 --> 0:58:35.120 because I'm going to like quit. 0:58:35.960 --> 0:58:38.440 And then I got Hacks in November of twenty twenty. 0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:42.440 Wow. That's I mean, and it's so grateful for it, 0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:45.480 like part of what you were saying earlier about just 0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:50.840 like what actors bring to the table, and with Hacks specifically, 0:58:51.000 --> 0:58:54.000 like I do think that you bring a specificity. I 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:59.040 think every character in Hacks brings a very specific comedic style. 0:58:59.560 --> 0:59:01.880 And I think that someone like Meg is a really 0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:04.000 great example of that. Someone like Poppy is a great 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.200 example of that. It's like irreplicable. I mean, everybody's gonna 0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:09.160 try and copy what like you do or what like 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:12.160 Meg's aalter does. Everyone's trying to do what Meg is doing. 0:59:12.360 --> 0:59:14.440 But everyone's trying to do it right now, but no 0:59:14.520 --> 0:59:15.000 one's Meg. 0:59:15.200 --> 0:59:19.480 Yeah, And that specificity like lent itself to y just 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:23.360 like the characterization and everything that makes these characters breathe. 0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:25.520 Again, Like that just speaks to Paul and Luccia and 0:59:25.640 --> 0:59:28.840 Jen the and the the like vision that they had 0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:32.959 for this show. And like again, like, you know, even 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:35.960 though the show is about Debora Vance and Ava and 0:59:36.080 --> 0:59:41.160 their relationship, you know, everyone in the ensemble is extremely important. 0:59:41.600 --> 0:59:43.800 And I mean I also like, just in terms of 0:59:43.920 --> 0:59:46.600 like what I like to watch, I like to watch 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:48.760 shows about an ensemble. 0:59:49.000 --> 0:59:50.560 I like an ensemble cast. 0:59:50.680 --> 0:59:53.840 I mean, I love like Avid Elementary right now that 0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:56.520 my friend Tyler's not, like, you know, I love I 0:59:56.720 --> 1:00:01.200 love that kind of quick pace that an ensemble cast 1:00:01.320 --> 1:00:03.440 kind of a Forde You don't spend too much time 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:07.000 on one person at you know, like you're jumping around, 1:00:07.160 --> 1:00:09.840 You're getting to see different you know, and then that 1:00:10.000 --> 1:00:13.960 opens the door too for like individuals to interact that 1:00:14.000 --> 1:00:19.200 wouldn't necessarily interact, you know, And I think that that's 1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:21.280 it's just fun. Like I think that it just keeps 1:00:21.360 --> 1:00:23.440 us on our toes too, to be like, what is 1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:25.320 Damien doing this episode? 1:00:25.680 --> 1:00:26.480 Who is he with? 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:30.400 I also think a good ensemble means that the world 1:00:31.160 --> 1:00:33.160 of the show feels real. 1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:34.640 And that's sure. 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:38.600 That's the thing I think that really does that really 1:00:38.600 --> 1:00:40.680 sticks out to me about both of these shows we're 1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:43.720 talking about, is they because of the specificity of the 1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:46.320 characters and the way they interact and the fact that 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:49.600 none of them are siloed only with certain people, and 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:52.480 that they all co mingle. It does feel like a 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.000 really like fully realized, fleshed out world. And I think 1:00:56.000 --> 1:00:57.680 that's why people love the show so much. 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:00.520 And you can see I think that we were talking 1:01:00.520 --> 1:01:04.720 about earlier is like applicable here is that like sometimes 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:11.240 these people suck, you know, like there's no universally good person. 1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:15.360 You know, there's no universally virtuous person on hacks, you 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:17.720 know what I mean. We're all kind of fucked up 1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:20.480 a little bit. And I think that that again, that's 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:23.800 what grounds it in the world, like because they're made 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:27.400 to be human, like the like the I don't know, 1:01:27.520 --> 1:01:30.160 the peaks and valleys of the debra of a relationship 1:01:30.240 --> 1:01:33.680 for example, that like she loves her even though she's 1:01:33.720 --> 1:01:38.160 getting sued, even that you know, like it like the complications, 1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:43.840 the con like how confusing human relationships actually are and 1:01:43.920 --> 1:01:46.240 how complex human relationships actually are. 1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:51.280 That like you know, and and people fuck up a lot. 1:01:51.880 --> 1:01:54.760 And I think that like so like human like making 1:01:54.840 --> 1:01:57.480 these people human, I think makes the world seem real, 1:01:57.720 --> 1:01:59.160 I guess, and. 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:00.600 That's a career illness. 1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:05.120 That's something that makes it I think also just fun 1:02:05.240 --> 1:02:08.320 to watch retroactively, like we were you know, joking about 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:11.480 how it's problematic now or whatever. But like if we 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:13.720 we say on this show, I mean this is actually 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.000 kind of like the whole conceit of like like a 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:19.840 virgin in general, is that like we these like things 1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:22.360 that come from the past, like and quote unquote the 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:27.520 past two thousand and six. You know they uh, it's 1:02:27.560 --> 1:02:29.520 not that like we shouldn't watch them anymore because they're 1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:31.640 problem but it's that we need to revisit them and 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:33.760 put them in the context of today. Like that's the 1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:36.240 whole thing about It's like if we, as like a 1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:41.120 culture decided to categorically like boycott slash girl cott like 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:45.720 anything that they caught they caught, Yeah, yeah, anything that 1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.760 we if we categorically just decided we're not watching this anymore, 1:02:48.880 --> 1:02:51.080 like canceled, like we can't watch it. It's like that 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:55.000 is not growth, that's not justice. It's it's about taking it, 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:58.480 bringing it back and then keeping it in its own context. 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:01.440 Yeah, what do we what did we learn here? You know, 1:03:01.880 --> 1:03:04.000 what what did we learn here? What can we keep? 1:03:04.040 --> 1:03:05.280 And what do we need to change? 1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:07.200 You know, like what can we bring what can we 1:03:07.320 --> 1:03:10.200 bring into the now and what stays in two thousand 1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:12.040 and eight, you know, and that's part of them, And 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:13.000 that's what I would like. 1:03:13.040 --> 1:03:16.240 To bring a couple of Betty's outfits into the now specifically. 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:21.360 That's right, honestly, Okay, you were saying we need in 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:25.400 every outfit on Ugly Betty on top Market. I definitely 1:03:25.760 --> 1:03:27.880 looked for that handle. It's like the handle has been 1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:29.360 kin Yeah. 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:31.360 I don't know who's going to do it. It's surely 1:03:31.480 --> 1:03:32.120 not going to be me. 1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:35.480 Yeah, I don't know if I have this to do 1:03:36.160 --> 1:03:38.840 all of like the wardrobe research, but like it really 1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:40.320 would be so good. 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:42.600 I would be fears right I did. 1:03:42.760 --> 1:03:45.080 I recently tweeted about all like a lot of like 1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:48.919 Betty's outfits and just how like Pat Fields like create 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:51.800 like really was the beginning was like kind of the 1:03:51.880 --> 1:03:56.040 early adopter of like cluttercore, like this kind of Alessandro 1:03:56.440 --> 1:03:57.720 Gucci kind of. 1:03:57.800 --> 1:04:00.160 I mean that's like literally what it was like no 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:03.640 one was wearing socks and pomps. Yeah, Like no one 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:04.920 was wearing socks and palms. 1:04:05.000 --> 1:04:08.840 Now every girls are now It's like in every every 1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:12.360 product me collection is socks and kitten heels. Yeah, you know, 1:04:13.160 --> 1:04:15.760 I I want to ask, maybe this is like a 1:04:16.040 --> 1:04:20.840 as we're like winding down, here cameos on ugly Betty 1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:24.920 Oh yeah, my god, just to rattle off a ton 1:04:25.200 --> 1:04:30.800 like Adele Shakira, Victoria Beckham, Kristin Chena with Martha. 1:04:30.640 --> 1:04:33.800 Stewart, Lindsay Lohan, Lindsay, Okay. 1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:36.800 Look, don't forget about Leelo, Kathina Jimi as like the 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:42.720 fairy god orthodontist. Like yes, like literally like the cast. 1:04:42.560 --> 1:04:46.000 Of Wicked on Broadway, truly yes. 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:49.560 And let it be said, tim God like Lucy Lou 1:04:49.800 --> 1:04:52.320 Like it is just that the taste was there and 1:04:52.440 --> 1:04:55.080 it's funny. Like something that I kind of realized as 1:04:55.120 --> 1:04:58.280 I was rewatching now was that there's so many people 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:01.240 that I just didn't have in appreciation for when I 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:03.480 watched it as a kid, because I didn't know who 1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:05.520 a lot of these people were. I was in a 1:05:05.600 --> 1:05:10.760 cultural vacuum. It only retroactively. You're like, oh, like the casting, 1:05:10.920 --> 1:05:13.760 there's such a taste level in the casting, whether it's 1:05:13.800 --> 1:05:19.800 someone like Octavia Spencer Monique has like the funniest like bit, Like. 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:21.880 I mean, it's just crazy like having like someone like 1:05:21.920 --> 1:05:25.120 Octavia Spencer, who I remember working with like she was 1:05:25.320 --> 1:05:28.960 so sweet, so kind, so good, so fucking and like 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:32.440 and like I just remember I remember when she was 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:35.360 on the show, everyone being like my god like and 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:37.680 and also like people had known her because she'd been 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.200 around forever and like but she wasn't. 1:05:40.000 --> 1:05:41.200 An Oscar winner. 1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:44.440 Yeah, well no, and and I feel like but I 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:48.520 just remember the the energy that she brought, like and there, 1:05:49.080 --> 1:05:52.640 like there's a scene where she like is like MASSI 1:05:52.760 --> 1:05:57.480 us reaching out and like I like and I remember 1:05:57.680 --> 1:05:59.760 I remember that because we were shooting another scene that 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.040 and we were there and she like improvised that, you know, 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:06.720 like she's like she's I mean, I just remember her 1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:10.760 being like so fun to be around and and and 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:14.240 bringing this energy and like and again like just working 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:16.919 with a person where you're like, whoa, they're really good 1:06:17.000 --> 1:06:20.200 and like the choices that they make are really smart. 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:24.200 I mean, I didn't know who Patty Lapone was, no idea. 1:06:24.440 --> 1:06:25.880 Yeah, I'm sure. 1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:30.200 And now someday again, the some day came for all 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:32.840 of these people. Who else was there? 1:06:33.760 --> 1:06:36.360 I mean there were a lot of designers, a lot 1:06:36.440 --> 1:06:39.760 of I remember Victoria back and being very nice. Is 1:06:40.480 --> 1:06:43.640 Isaac mus rocky Isaac ms Rockey Zach Posen was on 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:46.120 Area Adriana. 1:06:46.880 --> 1:06:50.640 I I feel like I'm honestly okay. The The Octavia 1:06:50.640 --> 1:06:55.360 Spencer's last episode one of my favorites, the last reading, 1:06:55.520 --> 1:06:59.280 like I remember that from like I've I will constantly 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:00.800 just like say, got a loans to. 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:04.560 Certain things stick out in my mind of like you know, 1:07:04.960 --> 1:07:07.600 of things that I maybe saw clips of or was 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:11.360 there for, like little lines, little things that were done. 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:16.680 I remember like when uh, when Judith Light was in 1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:21.560 when Claire was in jail and and justin I still 1:07:21.640 --> 1:07:23.320 have it. I think it's at my parents house. I 1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:28.640 have the free Claire shirt. Go wow, somewhere It's like, 1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:29.040 what do you. 1:07:29.080 --> 1:07:31.160 Mean somewhere my memory? It should be right there. 1:07:31.200 --> 1:07:33.840 In memory it right now. 1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:36.840 A box of Ugly Betty stuff at my parents' house. 1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:39.120 Like when we when we got canceled, we were all 1:07:39.240 --> 1:07:42.040 so upset that we just like went and stole everything. 1:07:42.520 --> 1:07:48.000 So everything, honey, so everything, the box of Ugly Betty paraphernalia. 1:07:48.120 --> 1:07:49.400 You and I are going to back channel about that. 1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:51.600 I'm gonna be we can buy some of that off 1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:55.240 of you. The Octavia Spencer episode something that I just 1:07:55.280 --> 1:07:58.680 think it's emblematic of like something that's like so juicy 1:07:58.760 --> 1:08:01.320 with every single character came through this show is like 1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:06.439 again and I personally am trying to like mandate Ugly 1:08:06.520 --> 1:08:10.440 Betty Rewatches, like we as a culture need to have 1:08:11.120 --> 1:08:13.920 the ugly Betty Rewatch the way maybe I'll watch it for. 1:08:13.960 --> 1:08:14.520 The first time. 1:08:15.840 --> 1:08:17.960 Start a podcast, babe, honey, yeah maybe no. 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:20.639 No, no, no no, don't don't start a podcasts. Don't spart, 1:08:20.760 --> 1:08:23.120 don't do that, like protect yourself. 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:25.000 I'll come back on here and talk. 1:08:25.080 --> 1:08:26.639 Okay, Yeah, that's what we want. That's what we want 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:30.120 part two. But Octavia does, Like I get the reason 1:08:30.200 --> 1:08:33.000 I'm advocating for like rewatches is because there's just so 1:08:33.479 --> 1:08:37.040 much juice that you miss, and like with Octavia specifically, 1:08:37.479 --> 1:08:41.799 she it's like the most ridiculous character, completely deluded person 1:08:41.960 --> 1:08:44.160 who is like kind of evil, kind of whack like 1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:49.160 kind of unwell. And the way her, yeah, the way her, 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:53.560 the way Ignacio you know, brings her back into reality 1:08:53.760 --> 1:08:57.320 and the realization on her face made me physically cry. 1:08:57.479 --> 1:09:00.439 In twenty twenty three, I was like so cat debated 1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:03.759 by what she does as an actress. Yeah, and everybody 1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:06.000 on that show just like knew how to do this 1:09:06.160 --> 1:09:08.360 lapstick and they knew how to do the heart well. 1:09:08.400 --> 1:09:10.200 I think that that also, Like I think that all 1:09:10.280 --> 1:09:13.600 of the guest stars also kind of really quickly like 1:09:14.520 --> 1:09:17.600 understood the assignment to like they they got it like 1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:20.960 they I And that I think is pretty rare as well, 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:23.720 Like the idea of like these people coming and doing 1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:26.360 one episode a little arc of like three, and I 1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:28.720 feel like for the most part, every guest star like 1:09:28.880 --> 1:09:31.640 understood the world that they were walking into, like that 1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:35.200 it had to be a little bit irreverent and ridiculous, 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:37.439 but grounding it in the world, like they just really 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:41.720 understood and kind of entered very seamlessly, like Adam Rodriguez 1:09:41.800 --> 1:09:46.519 coming in and playing and playing Hilda's man and like 1:09:46.680 --> 1:09:48.400 and that whole Like I got to work with Adam 1:09:48.439 --> 1:09:52.639 a lot, and like, you know, he's also extremely funny 1:09:53.240 --> 1:09:56.960 and you know, kind of brought this Bobby character like 1:09:57.240 --> 1:10:00.240 to a different place that we weren't really expecting. And 1:10:01.800 --> 1:10:03.360 so I think that, you know, it was it was 1:10:03.400 --> 1:10:05.719 also great to have guest stars that understood the assignment, 1:10:05.880 --> 1:10:06.880 like the actors that came on. 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:10.240 You know who else was that was Kristin Johnson, Oh my. 1:10:10.320 --> 1:10:13.519 God, yeah, well, I mean Kristin Johnson and anything is 1:10:13.640 --> 1:10:16.519 just like slightly Kristin Johnson, which I love, right, you 1:10:16.600 --> 1:10:18.439 know what I mean. It's kind of like she's got 1:10:18.479 --> 1:10:21.599 like the Jennifer Coolidge kind of thing going. It's kind 1:10:21.600 --> 1:10:22.000 of had that. 1:10:22.200 --> 1:10:24.240 Like where it's like she's playing a character, but like 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:27.920 there's still something just her, you know what I mean. 1:10:28.160 --> 1:10:29.320 New York isn't cool anymore. 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:32.200 Yeah, New York's not cool anymore. So bored I could die. 1:10:33.000 --> 1:10:35.280 Did you have a favorite guest star that you worked 1:10:35.320 --> 1:10:37.800 with or cameo appearance that that. 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:39.559 I mean? 1:10:39.680 --> 1:10:42.680 Adam Rodriguez was really really fun. I mean because we 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:46.439 got like he came in again, like kind of towards 1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:48.439 the end of our run. And it was also in 1:10:48.640 --> 1:10:50.720 the it was in the era of like, you know, 1:10:51.000 --> 1:10:53.120 Justin's kind of coming out thing, and I just thought 1:10:53.200 --> 1:10:58.599 that the Bobby character, like I just thought was so funny, 1:10:58.800 --> 1:11:02.320 like the the when he comes in and they're decorating 1:11:02.400 --> 1:11:06.080 Betty's apartment for the coming out party, and he's like, 1:11:06.439 --> 1:11:09.360 this doesn't seem right, Like there's some I can't put 1:11:09.400 --> 1:11:11.840 my finger on it, but this doesn't seem right. And 1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:15.320 then Michael like Mark comes In is like take this down, 1:11:15.439 --> 1:11:17.920 and he's like see. And I thought that that was 1:11:17.960 --> 1:11:22.160 also a really again like the subtext of something funny 1:11:22.200 --> 1:11:24.920 that is also making a political statement of like this 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:30.840 machismo Latin got coming in and being extremely like accepting 1:11:31.479 --> 1:11:35.439 and just trying to like become friends with Justin and 1:11:35.960 --> 1:11:39.320 trying to understand him and trying to like not even 1:11:39.400 --> 1:11:40.040 understand him. 1:11:40.040 --> 1:11:41.360 I think he did understand him. 1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:43.559 I think it was more like, hey, I'm an ally 1:11:43.760 --> 1:11:48.800 like I'm trying, I'm trying to like support you. And 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:52.000 I think that that also again is like a political 1:11:52.040 --> 1:11:54.480 statement and of itself. I think that Justin being conditioned 1:11:54.520 --> 1:11:56.880 to like kind of have his guard up, as many 1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:01.000 queer people do, especially you know around on like Sis 1:12:01.360 --> 1:12:04.880 had men right of like kind of having to have 1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:08.760 your guard up at all times because you know, rightfully so, 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:12.720 and then having someone that like looks like Adam Rondriguez 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:15.840 with a name like Bobby from New York City that 1:12:16.040 --> 1:12:18.600 is just like I won't tell your mom, but like 1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:20.760 you got to do something about that, like you have 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:22.880 to like let your family know like where you're at. 1:12:23.000 --> 1:12:25.679 Like I just thought that was a really beautiful story 1:12:25.920 --> 1:12:28.879 and I thought that it was like like a political statement, 1:12:29.200 --> 1:12:31.759 but like done in such a funny way, like Bobby 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:33.080 is silly, and. 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:38.519 It was a complicated story. We're here, we're queer, we suck. Yeah, 1:12:38.880 --> 1:12:39.800 that's powerful. 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:44.559 Listen a very relevant ending question. I don't know if 1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:47.439 there's tea here. I do feel we were rubbed of 1:12:47.560 --> 1:12:51.120 a Gaga cameo, and I feel like I was like 1:12:51.240 --> 1:12:53.200 waiting for her to be in there. She's I just 1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:53.960 finished season I. 1:12:53.960 --> 1:12:54.320 Don't think that. 1:12:54.479 --> 1:12:56.760 I don't think the timing was quite right, because it 1:12:56.880 --> 1:12:59.120 was it would have been right at the beginning. 1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:03.920 Of her romance was out in season three, right, I mean, 1:13:04.000 --> 1:13:05.560 I feel like that would have been the time to 1:13:05.680 --> 1:13:05.960 get her. 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:09.240 Was before she was on Gossip Girl. Well, well yeah 1:13:09.800 --> 1:13:11.280 she was in season four. 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:13.439 There's this whole arc where Justin is like going to 1:13:13.520 --> 1:13:16.479 be on set for like the Gaga photo shoot or whatever, 1:13:16.520 --> 1:13:17.840 and I was like, is Gaga coming? 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:20.080 I think they wanted to get her, and I think 1:13:20.120 --> 1:13:22.160 that it was just, you know, she was just probably 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:24.080 a scheduling thing or whatever. 1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:26.719 I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure that Lady Gaga 1:13:26.760 --> 1:13:27.760 watched Ugly Betty Girl. 1:13:27.840 --> 1:13:30.679 Yeah, Gaga, Yeah, she she'll be in the reboot. 1:13:30.760 --> 1:13:31.680 I'm sure she well. 1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:34.160 When we finally have her on the show, we will 1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:36.120 make her answer for that, along with all. 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:37.559 Of her other woor crimes. 1:13:48.120 --> 1:13:50.120 Slide into our DMS at Like a Virgin four twenty 1:13:50.200 --> 1:13:53.720 sixty nine and tell us if you're starting an ugly 1:13:53.800 --> 1:13:56.960 Betty rewatch. Are you a Betty? Are you a Wilhelmina? 1:13:57.080 --> 1:14:00.519 Are you an Amanda? And make sure to become a 1:14:00.600 --> 1:14:03.400 patroon at patreon dot com. Slash like a Virgin and 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:07.280 get some exclusive bonus content from our conversation with Martina 1:14:07.320 --> 1:14:10.360 Della Pato. And next week we will be back with 1:14:10.439 --> 1:14:13.439 an episode all about Anna Wintour and then met Gala 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:14.920 with mikel. 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:17.240 Street. So that's very exciting. 1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:20.799 Make sure to follow us on Instagram Like a Virgin 1:14:20.920 --> 1:14:23.920 for twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host rose Dam. 1:14:23.960 --> 1:14:27.640 You can find me anywhere online at rose Dam you and. 1:14:27.800 --> 1:14:30.880 I'm brand you can find me at France squishkowhere on 1:14:30.920 --> 1:14:31.360 the Internet. 1:14:31.800 --> 1:14:34.479 Like a VIRGINI is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is 1:14:34.560 --> 1:14:39.839 Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Guitour. 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:43.240 Until next week, See you later, Virgin