Speaker 1: You walked so that Kurt on Glee could grapevine.
Speaker 2: That's right, she's sheen.
Speaker 3: I'm me no ma, not ny no, No, what is
Speaker 3: your childhood tradah? I am a cook shocker.
Speaker 2: You know what's going down the floor like us round.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 2: I'm Ra's Damu.
Speaker 4: And I'm Fran Toronto, And I don't know why I
Speaker 4: like that. It's your birthday, Yeah, it's birthday sing to you? No, no,
Speaker 4: please don't. I think it would be a great gift
Speaker 4: for you to not sing wow.
Speaker 1: Well, but I'll let it slide with your birthday.
Speaker 4: Well you wouldn't let I don't know if you would
Speaker 4: want Would you want me to sing to you on
Speaker 4: your birthday?
Speaker 3: Are you like?
Speaker 2: This?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 4: Actually? Like I feel like there are two different kinds
Speaker 4: of people in this world. People that like happy Birthday
Speaker 4: being sung to them and people that don't.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's always mortifying, but I would rather
Speaker 1: it happen than not happen.
Speaker 2: Do you find the same?
Speaker 1: I mean I did sing I was, I did sing
Speaker 1: Happy birthday to you last night at your birthday party,
Speaker 1: But I wanted to give you a private sort of
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe singing, oh okay version of it.
Speaker 4: Oh, we were gonna sexy version. Oh I see, so
Speaker 4: you were you were saving the sexy for this record.
Speaker 4: I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, you looked great. Yesterday I
Speaker 4: asked all my friends to meet me at a bar
Speaker 4: and dress glam, and I will say not very many
Speaker 4: people were on theme, but you were on theme. Rose.
Speaker 1: Well, I did my version of glam, which was I
Speaker 1: wore a dress, but I wore it over jeans. I'm
Speaker 1: very much into that sort of like early two thousands
Speaker 1: dress over jeans thing that's been happening. And Jill or
Speaker 1: is that my dellery? Duff, it's all the girls, it is.
Speaker 1: Even when I did my Buffy rewatch recently, there was
Speaker 1: an episode where Buffy was wearing a dress over jeans
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, wow, mother says, so, then
Speaker 1: I suppose it's what we're doing. Did you have fun
Speaker 1: of your birthday party last night? I really did.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean my goal was to just do something that
Speaker 4: was casual and easy and had like food and drinks,
Speaker 4: and people could show up whenever and get a good
Speaker 4: group picture. And you were able to sneak into the
Speaker 4: group picture before you snuck off.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: I literally I left, I said goodbye to you, did
Speaker 1: not to go bye to anyone else, and went and
Speaker 1: got in my uber that was waiting for me at
Speaker 1: the curb.
Speaker 4: You were like, You're like, and that's a wrap? Yeah?
Speaker 1: How late? Did y'all stay at whatever? That place was
Speaker 1: not that much longer? Honestly, we the night ended a
Speaker 1: nice and early.
Speaker 4: I said, you know that it would end at ten
Speaker 4: because I didn't want people to like pull up late,
Speaker 4: and I think we stay there until ten thirty. But
Speaker 4: like you know, I don't know how you like to
Speaker 4: do birthdays. I always throw something for myself, like every
Speaker 4: single time, whether it's like a vacation or a party
Speaker 4: or a bar meat or a dinner or something. But
Speaker 4: I like that event to be not on my birthday
Speaker 4: so that I'm not stressed on my birthday because I
Speaker 4: feel like I've learned the hard way that like coordinating
Speaker 4: and producing my own birthday party is time consuming and
Speaker 4: stressful and not a good way to spend your birthday.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Usually we go on like a vaca or something I
Speaker 4: feel like, but we've been.
Speaker 1: Do I know it feels weird not to be, you know,
Speaker 1: like in the desert somewhere celebrating your birthday this year. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm very happy that we'll be on Fire Island right
Speaker 1: before my birthday, the.
Speaker 4: Simon, That's what I was just about to say. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Fire Island is going to be that moment. I honestly
Speaker 4: was texting folks about, like folks that are maybe staying
Speaker 4: at her house, trying to get those rooms filled. And
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to go back. Rose like me too.
Speaker 1: I do think though, I'm fiending for a vacation and
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna have to go away before before
Speaker 1: the summer. I really need to go somewhere, But I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do.
Speaker 4: Are you eyeing anywhere in particular?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I either want to like
Speaker 1: fly somewhere and like do something, but that I also
Speaker 1: I like don't necessarily want to like go by myself.
Speaker 1: And then I was thinking maybe of driving somewhere and
Speaker 1: going to a spa that could be nice in a
Speaker 1: hotel and just getting Spa treatments for a couple.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like Boutiqui spa hotel. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 4: yeah that's that's sexy, that's mixy.
Speaker 1: Are you doing anything self carry for your birthday? Are
Speaker 1: you self carrying lo? Yeah, I'm self carrying. Laurel and
Speaker 1: I are gonna go.
Speaker 4: We're gonna meet at the gym and do the hot
Speaker 4: tub and sauna that are at my gym, and that's
Speaker 4: what most do you go to? I will not say
Speaker 4: on the pod I go to. We'll cut it tell
Speaker 4: me yeah, yeah, Phoebe can bleep. I go to Brooklyn.
Speaker 4: It's very it's pretty. It's closer to you than it
Speaker 4: is to me, actually.
Speaker 1: And that's good to know because I've been looking for
Speaker 1: a gym. Do you recommend?
Speaker 4: It's amazing and it's so bougie and really good vibes,
Speaker 4: like it's a pretty like there's a there's a lot
Speaker 4: of queers, there, a lot of lesbians. I don't see
Speaker 4: any dolls, but I never see dolls at the gym.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't really want necessarily to go to a gym
Speaker 1: where I'll know a lot of people. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: I don't like at the gym. I want to be invisible.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and I am highly visible in my gym,
Speaker 4: but I don't talk to anybody like I don't like
Speaker 4: I kind of stay in my own lane and like
Speaker 4: mind my own business. But I am very very loud.
Speaker 4: I'm I will Okay, I flirt.
Speaker 5: I know that that's a lie.
Speaker 4: I do flirt sometimes at the gym. It happens. I
Speaker 4: do wear I also wear very loud clothing in the gym.
Speaker 4: I'll be I'll like wear a T shirt that's just
Speaker 4: like it'll be like I don't know, it'll say like
Speaker 4: drug addict transsexual not actually, but like we should we
Speaker 4: should sell a drug addict transsexual TA shirt?
Speaker 1: You should, Yeah, coming to like a virgin four twenty
Speaker 1: sixty nine dot com. By the way, we have merch
Speaker 1: at that website. If you want to go there and
Speaker 1: buy some now. It would be a great birthday present
Speaker 1: for Fran if you did that, and if you became
Speaker 1: a Patreon at patreon dot com slash like yes, and
Speaker 1: that is a great birthday present. Do you feel another
Speaker 1: year older and wiser?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: Actually, Like I know that's kind of like a throwaway,
Speaker 4: like sometimes it's like a throwway thing to say or
Speaker 4: thing to ask, but like I really feel so own.
Speaker 4: And you know, anybody that listens to this podcast, I
Speaker 4: think knows that I've just a lot has changed in
Speaker 4: the last year. And I think last year, during my birthday,
Speaker 4: this state that I was in, I state that you
Speaker 4: were in, the literal state that I was in.
Speaker 5: The state of California.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was a different girl. I was identifying differently.
Speaker 4: I was not identifying differently, but like, I feel like
Speaker 4: I was just kind of learning about who I was
Speaker 4: and knowing who I was. And this year is just
Speaker 4: like I really do know who I was, and I'm
Speaker 4: comfied with who I am and like reveling in that.
Speaker 4: And I think that that's like a very like I'm
Speaker 4: in my thirties thing.
Speaker 3: You know, that's so magical.
Speaker 4: But I mean, no one knows where in my thirties
Speaker 4: and no one should ever know. So don't you dare
Speaker 4: tell it where my age is shut down?
Speaker 2: Fuck you better.
Speaker 4: We're bleeping that Phoebe, we're fleeting. We're bleeping.
Speaker 1: My age friend said last night that she always wants
Speaker 1: her age to remain a mystery.
Speaker 4: A mystery. So if you if anybody ever asked you, like, oh,
Speaker 4: I don't know, late twenties or something I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I go up, I say, oh, I think she's
Speaker 1: like early forties. Yeah, then people are like, wow, she
Speaker 1: looks so good for her as.
Speaker 4: She looks so good for her age. Yeah, that is
Speaker 4: that is the move. Yeah, but I don't have anything planned.
Speaker 4: I'm like literally gonna run errands. I'm gonna get groceries,
Speaker 4: I'm going to take care of Mysel'm going to clean
Speaker 4: to my house this morning. Cut my flowers?
Speaker 1: Did you start unpacking any of your boxes? I find virgins.
Speaker 1: I finally went to frans new place last week for
Speaker 1: the first.
Speaker 5: Time, and it is lovely.
Speaker 1: You have so much space.
Speaker 4: I was gagged.
Speaker 1: I think probably our apartments have like roughly the same
Speaker 1: square footage. You just yeah have walls, yeah yeah, and
Speaker 1: I just have one off, but so much space.
Speaker 2: But you you do need to do.
Speaker 4: Some unpacking, I think the virgins I do. I'm like
Speaker 4: really behind, but the virgins should know that we You
Speaker 4: and I were watching with Laurel Charleston Mulin Rouge and
Speaker 4: inducting her into that which may or may not she
Speaker 4: had never seen it, yes, had never seen it. That
Speaker 4: may or may not be like a virgin content later
Speaker 4: at some point, but like God, I forgot that movie
Speaker 4: is I think I I came to realize rewatching it again,
Speaker 4: that Moonlan Bruge is in my top five movies. I
Speaker 4: think the top five.
Speaker 1: I wonder it's birthday, so let's hear the.
Speaker 4: Okay, Mulan Rouge, Moonstruck, cats don't dance. Oh god, I
Speaker 4: don't know. Maybe that's the three I let said five. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we said five, yes, and Fran yes and fuck. I
Speaker 4: feel like I have. I feel like when I think
Speaker 4: about the things that define me, it's always like TV shows.
Speaker 4: Is there anything that comes to mind for you that
Speaker 4: we've talked about in the pod that was like a
Speaker 4: big the Devil?
Speaker 3: Maybe?
Speaker 4: No, I mean not.
Speaker 1: Hercules Love Herculess is definitely in the top.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, girl, you got Hercules is one hundred
Speaker 4: and ten percent in my top five.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Two of my top fives are cartoon movies. What does
Speaker 4: that say about me?
Speaker 5: Parts of the Caribbean?
Speaker 2: Shut up.
Speaker 4: Wait, I'll think of the fifth. And if I think
Speaker 4: of the fifth, then maybe it'll be you know, our
Speaker 4: Patreon exclusives.
Speaker 5: Okay, great?
Speaker 1: Great, Speaking of which, today we have an episode that's
Speaker 1: all about Ugly Betty, which is very exciting. It's Frans
Speaker 1: Birthday spectacular and we are going to be talking with
Speaker 1: Marcin Delacado, who played Justin Suarez on Ugly Betty, which
Speaker 1: is very exciting, and we have some bonus exclusive little
Speaker 1: tidbits from that conversation that will be available on our
Speaker 1: Patreon And that's something you can come to expect from
Speaker 1: our Patreon content is when we are doing these episodes
Speaker 1: with guests, we will be cutting off some juicy little
Speaker 1: tidbits and saving them for patrin On so you can
Speaker 1: get even more of our conversation with that.
Speaker 4: Uh. I'm just so fucking stoked for this episode, Rose
Speaker 4: and like for the Virgins, Ugly Betty, if you've never
Speaker 4: seen it before, is a really a wild kind of
Speaker 4: like rompy workplace workplace comedy. I would say it straddles
Speaker 4: like sitcom and soap opera because it's based on a
Speaker 4: telenovela called Betty La Fea and has a very telenovella
Speaker 4: vibe in that like a lot of like the plots
Speaker 4: and character arcs are very absurd and like ridiculous, But
Speaker 4: the story follows obviously Betty Suarez and her family, which
Speaker 4: includes Markin Delocado as her nephew and that she you
Speaker 4: know is an assistant at a high end magazine called
Speaker 4: Mode that's kind of like Vogue, and the whole vibe
Speaker 4: is very like devilwars Prada as a TV show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it came out in fault. It came out
Speaker 1: in fall two thousand and six, and then Double War's
Speaker 1: product came out summer two thousand and six, so it
Speaker 1: was definitely riding the wave of that, and the douvors
Speaker 1: Prada had been a book sensation, so like that kind
Speaker 1: of fashion ee workplace comedy was very in vogue, if
Speaker 1: you will, especially with Sex and the City having wrapped
Speaker 1: up just a couple of years before. Like that was
Speaker 1: the time and pop culture where everyone was on the
Speaker 1: hunt for the next Sex and the City and Ugly
Speaker 1: Betty is definitely like playing in that world a little bit.
Speaker 4: And I will say this show is very important to Rose,
Speaker 4: extremely important to me, and I'm happy to announce that
Speaker 4: in this episode we are starting, you know, a platform
Speaker 4: wide like mandate to do Ugly Betty rewatches.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, you.
Speaker 1: Can watch it on Hulu. I did a rewatch last
Speaker 1: month and I really enjoyed myself.
Speaker 4: Also, excuse my language, this is not a mandate to rewatch.
Speaker 4: This is a trend date to rewatch. It's a trend date,
Speaker 4: it's a FRAN dated, It's a fran date. I everybody
Speaker 4: needs to be rewatching, like you gotta Rose, You got
Speaker 4: to push pause on the girl's rewatches. Okay, and we
Speaker 4: need to you know, we need to. I already we
Speaker 4: need to watch.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 4: But I'm saying this because because you're one of the
Speaker 4: primary influencers of girls rewatches, it's you and Hunter Harris
Speaker 4: really pushing, really pushing that yes it is. And I
Speaker 4: think that, well, it's not your fault, it's just your work.
Speaker 4: And I think that you know, your energies could be
Speaker 4: maybe like put behind Ugly Betty. You know, a marginalized
Speaker 4: Latin trans story, you know trans story, Yes, yes, a
Speaker 4: trans story. There's trans people in this show, and there's
Speaker 4: Latin people in this show. And you know it's true.
Speaker 2: There are.
Speaker 4: I mean not real trans people, but at least trans characters.
Speaker 1: Happy Birthday friend. I wait for this episode to relive
Speaker 1: this conversation with markin Delacado, who you may know and
Speaker 1: virgins you may know, if not from Ugly Betty from Hacks.
Speaker 1: And this is so exciting. We've never talked about a
Speaker 1: cultural object like this with someone who was part of it.
Speaker 3: That's insane.
Speaker 6: It's been like fifteen years. I don't think that anyone is.
Speaker 6: I don't think that ugly Betty is going to get
Speaker 6: me in trouble.
Speaker 4: When you say get in trouble, do you mean like
Speaker 4: get in trouble in this era of your life as
Speaker 4: in the adult part of your career? Are you talking
Speaker 4: about like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, any No, I think like now, I mean I
Speaker 6: just like I mean, when I was a kid, you know,
Speaker 6: like I didn't really say anything that was controversial or anything.
Speaker 6: I feel like now I have to temper myself. But
Speaker 6: I'm sober right now, so like I think that I'll
Speaker 6: be okay.
Speaker 4: Oh we love that Rose is also not not drinking.
Speaker 4: We love we love. Oh you mean like sober in
Speaker 4: this very moment. Sober in this very moment. You're like,
Speaker 4: I'm sober right now? Okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, cool? Cool? Cool? So can I can I
Speaker 4: even ask? I don't know if this is the place
Speaker 4: to start, but like, what's your so what's your relationship
Speaker 4: to like Betty? Looking back on it, is it is it?
Speaker 4: Like I know that it was like heat They were
Speaker 4: like fam for you. They still are fam for you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're still fam. I mean I think that
Speaker 6: the show, like I feel like we've because it's been
Speaker 6: so many years since the show's been off the air,
Speaker 6: like we've really stayed family. So like I feel like
Speaker 6: my relationship to the cast and like especially like on Ortiz,
Speaker 6: who's like my best friend in the whole world. She
Speaker 6: like it's so separate from Ugly Betty now, like because
Speaker 6: we've known each other longer off the show than we
Speaker 6: have like when we were actually doing it, Like we
Speaker 6: only did the show for four years, and I mean,
Speaker 6: looking back at it, like I couldn't watch I still
Speaker 6: haven't seen like a lot of the episodes. WHOA really
Speaker 6: I've seen. I've seen three episodes. I've seen the first episode,
Speaker 6: the last episode, and the wedding in season four. Those
Speaker 6: are the only three episodes I've ever said.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, back up. So you're the virgin, so we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna tell you. I mean, I was there, but I
Speaker 2: was in every episode you were. You were there? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was there.
Speaker 6: I mean I remember I remember like what like the
Speaker 6: plots and everything and the storylines, but I just never
Speaker 6: watched it because I was so like I was so
Speaker 6: embarrassed by being on TV, which I know sounds like
Speaker 6: an asshole thing to say. I actually like just like
Speaker 6: I was so embarrassed, like but like it was very
Speaker 6: It was very much like that because I feel like
Speaker 6: there they were very formative years where kids are assholes anyway,
Speaker 6: you know, like eleven, I was eleven until I was sixteen,
Speaker 6: So like, those are pretty shitty years for everyone.
Speaker 4: Everything's embarrassing, ugly beddy coming out in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 4: A lot of not great things about that, media wize,
Speaker 4: a lot of not great things about that for you
Speaker 4: as a child actor. Something that's amazing about having rewatched
Speaker 4: the show so many times, especially now in like twenty
Speaker 4: twenty three, deliciously problematic joke, Oh problem amazing, incredible. I like,
Speaker 4: and I don't say this with any facetiousness, Like sometimes
Speaker 4: I really do not all the jokes, but sometimes I
Speaker 4: miss this era where you could say anything, because the
Speaker 4: thing about making jokes that are like crazy or problematic
Speaker 4: or just feel dated now is that sometimes.
Speaker 1: No, I love it, and I miss that era of TV.
Speaker 1: I mean I as you know, as a trans person,
Speaker 1: I love every tranny she mail joke, may on ugy Betty.
Speaker 1: I wish we were still making them today.
Speaker 6: I mean, I remember one that sticks in my mind
Speaker 6: of like a problematic joke. I think it was Wilhelmina
Speaker 6: that said something about Betty like and a mud hut
Speaker 6: or something like that, like something so wild and like.
Speaker 6: The thing is, though, is that, Like, Yeah, I think
Speaker 6: that there are plenty of things that obviously don't hold
Speaker 6: up now, but I think that, like it's so important
Speaker 6: to have had that, Like, you can't learn from anything
Speaker 6: unless it's like out there, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Like we can't like have like comprehensive conversations about like
Speaker 6: political correctness and like representation and like and language, et cetera,
Speaker 6: like without examples of it being wrong out or like
Speaker 6: being out there.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: You can't grow from something that isn't out there and
Speaker 6: being like interrogated, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's not like it was problematic and bad. It
Speaker 1: was still always funny. It was the story Listen.
Speaker 4: It was like one of the it was like the
Speaker 4: most popular show on.
Speaker 6: TV, Like, and I think that, like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 6: and the thing is is that, yeah, like you can't
Speaker 6: say a lot of the things that we said on
Speaker 6: there then, But like at the same time, you know,
Speaker 6: I think that people are just so quick to be like,
Speaker 6: we can't watch this anymore because they said one thing
Speaker 6: that can be read as like transphobic or like where
Speaker 6: it's just like girl, I mean, like take it for
Speaker 6: what it is and for what it was, Like you
Speaker 6: just let it live is what it was.
Speaker 1: And put it in put it in the context of
Speaker 1: its time. You can still.
Speaker 6: Appreciate it exactly like Ugly Betty as it was would
Speaker 6: never come back in the same way, do you know
Speaker 6: what I mean? Like we we've had these discussions before.
Speaker 5: It would be like and just like that.
Speaker 6: Girl, and like I don't know about all that, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, and just like that it's not right.
Speaker 2: It's just like that.
Speaker 4: You know. Well, look, if you ever if you ever
Speaker 4: hear back about the Ugly Betty rebate, you better loot me.
Speaker 2: In Divine we talk at it all the time.
Speaker 6: The thing is is that we all want to do
Speaker 6: it and like it's it's really it's I mean, we're
Speaker 6: all asked about it so often and literally every single
Speaker 6: one of us says, you know, completely seriously, like we
Speaker 6: would do it. It's just a matter of like what
Speaker 6: is it? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like we
Speaker 6: and we've had we've like when we get together, we
Speaker 6: have these like kind of hypothetical discussions about like would
Speaker 6: it be like of a reboot of just like one season,
Speaker 6: like a limited series, like of like five episodes, would
Speaker 6: it be a movie?
Speaker 2: Would it be? Like what would it be?
Speaker 6: And I think that everyone has kind of agreed that
Speaker 6: we would like to do like four or five like
Speaker 6: episodes and like you know, four or five like hour
Speaker 6: long episodes and like wrap up like all of the
Speaker 6: loose ends that were not wrapped up at the end
Speaker 6: of the season, of the end of the series.
Speaker 1: Because I will say, I will say I want more
Speaker 1: and I would love a reboot, Like I think a
Speaker 1: limited series sounds amazing. But I also think Ugly Betty
Speaker 1: is a great example of a show that while I
Speaker 1: think it was gone too soon, like it never got
Speaker 1: the chance that I think, unfortunately a lot of long
Speaker 1: running shows had back before everything got canceled after two seasons.
Speaker 1: It never got the chance to get bad. It was, oh,
Speaker 1: it was good. It was perfect the entire time it
Speaker 1: was on air.
Speaker 6: It's very like, I mean, we were so sad when
Speaker 6: it ended, because it ended so abruptly, like they just
Speaker 6: kind of like I mean to be honest, like the
Speaker 6: network just fucked us and like just kept moving it
Speaker 6: around and like so viewership was lost. And then you know,
Speaker 6: you can argue like, well you just don't have the ratings,
Speaker 6: and it's like, well, you moved us from Thursday to
Speaker 6: Wednesday to Friday within the matter of a month, you
Speaker 6: fucking idiots, Like are you hidding? So, like, of course
Speaker 6: people don't know where to find it, Like when it
Speaker 6: was on Thursdays at eight, you moved it to Wednesdays
Speaker 6: at ten and then Fridays at nine. It's like no
Speaker 6: one knows where to find the show. And like also
Speaker 6: so this is before streaming services, so like there was
Speaker 6: no like you can watch it on Hulu the day after,
Speaker 6: Like that didn't that wasn't a thing. So like, yeah,
Speaker 6: viewership was lost at the very end because we no
Speaker 6: one knew where to find us. And I think it
Speaker 6: was just an excuse. Again, like while when you have
Speaker 6: things that are so revolutionary and break all of these
Speaker 6: barriers and make people like question things and and kind
Speaker 6: of like look inward at themselves and the ways in
Speaker 6: which like they look at other people like there's going
Speaker 6: to be backlash to all of that. And I think
Speaker 6: that while Ugly Betty had so much, so much, so
Speaker 6: many fans and like such a huge fan base and
Speaker 6: inspired so many people, et cetera, you know, there's the
Speaker 6: flip side to that, and a lot of people really
Speaker 6: didn't like it. And I mean, I think that there's
Speaker 6: also it's very parallel again to like the conversations that
Speaker 6: we're having now about like banning drag shows and like
Speaker 6: you know, like trans like transrites period. You know, there
Speaker 6: there was like a lot of conversations when we were
Speaker 6: making the show about Justin being a sexualized character of it,
Speaker 6: like grooming children, like all of those same things and
Speaker 6: rhetoric that we hear now it's just utterly hysteric that
Speaker 6: we'd used. It's just recycled. It's just for just applying
Speaker 6: it to different things. So it's like or to different communities.
Speaker 6: Like Justin was considered to be this overtly sexualized child,
Speaker 6: but like in reality, the you would only looking at
Speaker 6: him as being sexualized means that you're sexualizing him, do
Speaker 6: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think there's a.
Speaker 6: Show where the writers explicitly made him a sexual.
Speaker 1: Now when that critique would never be applied to a
Speaker 1: straight character ever.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know two gays too, like boys kissing,
Speaker 6: It was just be it was considered to be like
Speaker 6: grooming and this and that and you know, all of
Speaker 6: the language again that we hear today in reference to
Speaker 6: like drag, trans people, gender affirming healthcare.
Speaker 2: Et cetera, et cetera. Like it's it's it's the same ship.
Speaker 4: And we just want to say for the record, like
Speaker 4: right here and now that like ugly Betty did groom me.
Speaker 4: I am gay because.
Speaker 5: I love Justin. I'm so happy that perfect.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gay because of Justin. I'm trans because of
Speaker 4: Rebecca Romains.
Speaker 5: She is motherless, Meed is lord girl.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna keep my mouth up.
Speaker 4: On one Rose Rose, And I have said before Rebecca
Speaker 4: Romaine is Transcannan because she was also Mystique, which is
Speaker 4: a conically trans.
Speaker 2: Character and she and like it's right, I didn't even think.
Speaker 4: Of it, Yes, canonically trans, and like that's fucking fear.
Speaker 4: We're not gonna, you know, wade into the weeds of
Speaker 4: like you know, trans. Yeah, I'm surely try to do
Speaker 4: all that, we're not going to do that, but we
Speaker 4: have to say, like trans vengeance is something that is
Speaker 4: underrepresented in media. And if I could fake my own
Speaker 4: death in a ski accident and come back as a woman.
Speaker 2: And you come back and a white late and paintball people.
Speaker 4: And put myself on the cover of my own magazine
Speaker 4: and be like I am here and I own fifty
Speaker 4: one percent of this company. All of you family members
Speaker 4: that like ousted me before.
Speaker 2: You didn't believe in me, You don't fuck with you,
Speaker 2: you said.
Speaker 4: You would disown me. It's over for all of you, Like,
Speaker 4: don't fuck with me.
Speaker 1: So I do hope I get the chance to pick
Speaker 1: what I death one day. But then the gag will
Speaker 1: be that I'll.
Speaker 2: That sounds pretty fierce.
Speaker 4: We'll see I so literally, like I I That's what
Speaker 4: I was kind of getting at with the two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven thing is like I would absolutely love to
Speaker 4: watch a show in twenty twenty three about a trans
Speaker 4: woman that fakes thrown death and comes back, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like that's iconic, that's amazing, Like but
Speaker 4: it's because you know, we have these ideas of like
Speaker 4: representation that get where we tiptoe around the stories or
Speaker 4: were like we were just like too scared about what
Speaker 4: we can happen. Like I don't know if anybody would
Speaker 4: ever do that again, And I like.
Speaker 1: Know, we need we need more, we need trans villains,
Speaker 1: and like it's it's so funny because at the time
Speaker 1: the culture had the ability to have a trans villain
Speaker 1: because you know of mainstream transphobia and just like the
Speaker 1: lack of representation. But it actually was because of that
Speaker 1: that we got to have this like delicious character in
Speaker 1: a way that I don't know, I don't regular exist
Speaker 1: today because people would be too scared of.
Speaker 6: Being I mean, I think that like the only way
Speaker 6: that like to in my opinion, representation is only going
Speaker 6: to be complete and well rounded if you see people
Speaker 6: in every in like playing every role, like everything can't
Speaker 6: you can't. Every trans character can't be a victim or
Speaker 6: we only see trans people as victims. Like there are
Speaker 6: plenty I have met plenty of trans people.
Speaker 2: That sucks. Yes I'm one of them. I've met plenty
Speaker 2: of stray people that fucking suck.
Speaker 6: The boys suck, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 6: people like people are people, and like the thing is
Speaker 6: is that you can't fully humanize someone or a community
Speaker 6: without seeing all different facets of like the human like identity,
Speaker 6: like of like the human condition. People suck period Like
Speaker 6: people that suck. I mean, listen, I'm like, I really
Speaker 6: truly like feel like you can't. It's not well rounded
Speaker 6: representation unless you see all different facets of like the
Speaker 6: human condition. And some people just fucking suck. It doesn't
Speaker 6: matter what their identity or their pronouns are.
Speaker 5: Say say that.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know I have to I have to ask
Speaker 1: what was it like working with Vanessa Williams, Because I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about the mother of mother's.
Speaker 2: That, let's talk about.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was about to be like, well that's mother.
Speaker 6: And then Judith's other mother will get to her. Oh man,
Speaker 6: well Vanessa Williams. The thing is is that when we started,
Speaker 6: I I was a huge fan of America Frearra because
Speaker 6: sister heard of the Traveling Pants out that maybe a
Speaker 6: year or two before and before that got to kick
Speaker 6: it up on the Disney Channel.
Speaker 2: Was my tea.
Speaker 6: So like when I met her, like that's the only
Speaker 6: person that I knew who and I was like like gobsmacked.
Speaker 6: But like when we went to set and my mom.
Speaker 6: My mom was obviously with me, and Vanessa was there.
Speaker 6: I had no idea who Vanessa Williams was, and my
Speaker 6: mom was like freaking out by her. And I was like,
Speaker 6: who is this and she was like, you'll you'll know someday.
Speaker 6: She was like, you'll you'll understand someday. And the thing
Speaker 6: is is that Vanessa is just a very regal individual.
Speaker 6: Like she is she's the nicest, most caring, nurture person.
Speaker 6: But the bitch is scary, like when you first like
Speaker 6: just just because she like looks like that, and like,
Speaker 6: is just she's established mama, Like she's just she and
Speaker 6: she knows she she knows what she's giving.
Speaker 5: She knows she is the divadal herself.
Speaker 6: That's right, and like, but I so I think that
Speaker 6: I was quite afraid of her for a minute. But
Speaker 6: I think that that very quickly dissipated when I got
Speaker 6: to work with her, because it was in the very
Speaker 6: beginning of the show, in the first season, like it
Speaker 6: was kind of divided, like mode family, you know whatever.
Speaker 6: And then slowly but surely, as the season progressed and
Speaker 6: then the series progressed, like they we all kind of
Speaker 6: intertwined with each other, and my first bit was with
Speaker 6: Michael Yuri and Becky Newton, and then that quickly went
Speaker 6: into Justin and Wilhelmina kind of working together and kind
Speaker 6: of talking. Like I remember shooting the bit where she
Speaker 6: she was wearing a blue outfit and she had sunglasses.
Speaker 2: She was I knew, I knew you couldn't see I knew.
Speaker 4: You were going to say this episode where you were
Speaker 4: the seeing I gay Mark or like I think Mark
Speaker 4: was the seeing I gay Mark.
Speaker 6: And then you took go and then he left, yes,
Speaker 6: and so and that was again it was crazy because
Speaker 6: I was so intimidated by her, and it becomes so
Speaker 6: quickly comfortable with like Anna and America and Tony Plana
Speaker 6: that like going in and working with like like I
Speaker 6: think at the time, Michael Ury in the first season,
Speaker 6: Michael Ury's the age that I am now. So Michael
Speaker 6: was twenty eight when we first started filming the show.
Speaker 6: So and that's how old I am right now. So
Speaker 6: like I think that, Uh, I think that it's also
Speaker 6: kind of funny to think about, like me now working
Speaker 6: with like an eleven year old. I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 6: you know, like it could be very like ugh, you know,
Speaker 6: like and I like, I get that now, and so
Speaker 6: I think that, like, and the thing is is that
Speaker 6: it wasn't like that at all. They were so patient
Speaker 6: with me, you know, because you can only be so
Speaker 6: professional as a kid. You know, like you're just stoked
Speaker 6: to be there and like you're you have all this energy,
Speaker 6: you're super hyper, but like there's also all of these
Speaker 6: logistics to consider, Like I could only work a certain
Speaker 6: amount of hours a day, so like I would they
Speaker 6: would shoot all of my stuff and then the rest
Speaker 6: of them would have to be there to finish, ok,
Speaker 6: and like finish the scene.
Speaker 2: So like they were very, very very patient with me.
Speaker 6: And I think that that was also it it informed
Speaker 6: the way that I kind of work now and my
Speaker 6: professionalism now because I looked at the ways in which
Speaker 6: these people were chipper and happy to be there to
Speaker 6: do their job. But also like, you know, when it's
Speaker 6: time to shut the fuck up and act, it's time
Speaker 6: to shut the fuck up and act. Look, I mean,
Speaker 6: and I learned that from Vanessa too. Like Vanessa was
Speaker 6: very she's the first, she's the first one to want
Speaker 6: a key, key, But when it's time to like get
Speaker 6: the job done, mama, let's get get it done, you know.
Speaker 4: The someone saying you know, you'll know some day about
Speaker 4: like Vanessa Williams is like that was definitely my experience
Speaker 4: as well. Vanessa one, Yeah, I found.
Speaker 2: I I literally liked has come. I So Betty was
Speaker 2: my first.
Speaker 4: Impression of Vanessa Williams, which is crazy because she's an
Speaker 4: icon of legend, has like a whole breadth of work
Speaker 4: that preceded it, and like, but I do. It was
Speaker 4: retroactive for me as well, because I remember just watching
Speaker 4: it and being like, she's an icon, She's so magnetic.
Speaker 4: Everything she says is funny, and even as I rewatched
Speaker 4: this past month, like every single fucking joke is so funny,
Speaker 4: and and and when by the time they got to
Speaker 4: season three and season four there were the guardrails around
Speaker 4: the propriety of Wilhelmina were like let down a little bit,
Speaker 4: and she got to be wackier and whackier. I'm thinking
Speaker 4: about like when she, you know, met the drag queen
Speaker 4: that does impressions of her and then she did like
Speaker 4: a whole you know, song and dance about it, or
Speaker 4: like she just or or in the fourth season where Betty,
Speaker 4: I mean America is finally looking like America basically, and
Speaker 4: she looks gorgeous and she has taste now and like
Speaker 4: Wilhelmina notices that she has taste and it gives her
Speaker 4: an aneurysm and she collapses and goes to the hospital.
Speaker 4: It's like so much.
Speaker 2: That's the thing too.
Speaker 6: We I think that also, Like the great thing about
Speaker 6: Silvio was that, and the writers, like all of the writers,
Speaker 6: was that as we like, they really believed in everyone's
Speaker 6: individual talent and like and and really like honed in
Speaker 6: on what we were all good at and like ran
Speaker 6: with that. And I feel like the you know, we'll
Speaker 6: talk about it in a bit, but like Hacks is
Speaker 6: the same exact way, like Paul Lucia and Jen is
Speaker 6: now that we're filming the third season. From season one
Speaker 6: to now, they you get in a groove with people
Speaker 6: and you like working with them so closely you're like, oh,
Speaker 6: why don't they do that? Because there, you know, I
Speaker 6: saw a glimpse of that when we were like sitting
Speaker 6: around like talking or whatever, you know, And I think
Speaker 6: that at first, you know, the Wilhelmina character was very
Speaker 6: intentionally cold, distant, not very silly, like not very silly,
Speaker 6: extremely hilarious, but like not silly. And then, as you
Speaker 6: you know, get to know a person like Vanessa, who
Speaker 6: is very whimsical as an individual, You're like, oh, why,
Speaker 6: like let's play into that, Like, let's let her do
Speaker 6: something silly because she can.
Speaker 1: She's an incredibly gifted comic actress. Just the way she
Speaker 1: uses her body, the way she uses her eyes is incredible.
Speaker 2: A look, I mean a literal look, you know.
Speaker 6: And I think that that is like they played to
Speaker 6: all of those strengths of her being like this bitch
Speaker 6: and this like bitchy devilwares prodra Miranda Priestley type of
Speaker 6: like archetype, but like really expanded upon that and let
Speaker 6: her have like a lot of fun. And I think
Speaker 6: that that is like and they let us all do that.
Speaker 6: I mean, Ana Ortiz is like the epitome of like
Speaker 6: just comedic genius and that like more is more and
Speaker 6: bigger is better and somehow it never Hilda never became
Speaker 6: like gimmicky, even though she was doing the absolute most
Speaker 6: all the time. And I think that that as like
Speaker 6: a comedic actor, to be able to toe that line
Speaker 6: between complete absurdity but grounding it in reality is like
Speaker 6: the is truly like genius.
Speaker 1: And also having I mean, I was so happy earlier
Speaker 1: when you said that the two of you are still
Speaker 1: so close because.
Speaker 2: I think I have her tattooed on.
Speaker 1: That, because like your relationship on the show was I
Speaker 1: think one of the emotional cores of the show. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that I loved about Ugly Betty
Speaker 1: and I think that endoored is that it's this like
Speaker 1: wacky screwball comedy but it has so much heart without
Speaker 1: becoming cloying much and it felt real and it's so
Speaker 1: nice to know that it was and that that has endured.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Anna, Like I think that you know, we became
Speaker 6: so close so quickly because that was her doing. Like
Speaker 6: I think from the first table read, it was like
Speaker 6: you're gonna play my son. We need to get to
Speaker 6: know each other, and again like that whole feeling like
Speaker 6: you have a seat at the table as a kid,
Speaker 6: where like you're not being put at the kid's table,
Speaker 6: Like I think that that was a little bit it.
Speaker 6: There were moments where it was very jarring for me
Speaker 6: to be treated like an adult, but I'm so much
Speaker 6: better for it because they all treated me like I'm
Speaker 6: now treated as an adult working, so like I kind
Speaker 6: of got that education really early, and you know, there
Speaker 6: were some times where like there was one time that
Speaker 6: I forget what it was, but it was like getting late.
Speaker 4: It was like later.
Speaker 6: No, it was early in like season two or something,
Speaker 6: and Anna said something. I forget what it was, but
Speaker 6: like it was it was kind of harsh, and I
Speaker 6: I like remember, I like started crying and it was
Speaker 6: like this one thing where we and we've talked about
Speaker 6: it like since, where she was like, I just got
Speaker 6: so used to treating you like an adult that like
Speaker 6: I forgot that you were a twelve year old kid
Speaker 6: and like but and so while like that's just an
Speaker 6: example of how jarring it could be as a kid,
Speaker 6: Like I'm so much better for it, because, you know,
Speaker 6: I feel like as I became a teenager and we
Speaker 6: finished the series on and I you know, she made
Speaker 6: me a better actor. Like I really wanted to impress
Speaker 6: her and I wanted to be a good scene partner
Speaker 6: for her, and I think that like I wouldn't have
Speaker 6: gotten there if she didn't treat me like she treats
Speaker 6: any other actor. You know, Like I wasn't given a
Speaker 6: pass because I was a kid, and I think that
Speaker 6: that's like that's a good thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you you've only seen three episodes of
Speaker 4: Uglybody I have. I have to tell you, you know,
Speaker 4: just just because you haven't seen them, that in case
Speaker 4: you weren't aware, you Slade like you you you are
Speaker 4: just you Slade. You are a scene stealer, girly like
Speaker 4: holding your.
Speaker 1: Own against some very impressive and I must I imagine
Speaker 1: intimidating actors.
Speaker 4: Yes, so whether you are like performing hairspray on the
Speaker 4: empty a or like you know, like all of the shit,
Speaker 4: Like you are just such a scene stealer. You are
Speaker 4: so magnetic and so big, and yet it's not like imbalanced, right,
Speaker 4: you were always like matching the energy of everyone around you,
Speaker 4: and I think that's the same in hacks, Like damn
Speaker 4: you were just you're so good And I'm honestly I'm
Speaker 4: resisting like fangirling to the to the best of my
Speaker 4: ability in in this in this year record. But like
Speaker 4: you you have to have to know that, like like
Speaker 4: I was justin like I'm not a gay boy anymore,
Speaker 4: but like I was that and like I know, like
Speaker 4: it sucks being I know so many of my friends
Speaker 4: now that you know that are in the public eye,
Speaker 4: and you know, being a role model is such like
Speaker 4: a weird, like kind of strenuous thing. Yeah, but like I,
Speaker 4: you know, grew up in a family that didn't understand
Speaker 4: queerness and then didn't you know, accept and it's this
Speaker 4: is like a very Latin thing too, righte Like there's
Speaker 4: there wasn't a ton of like nuance or acceptance or
Speaker 4: like even conversations about like queerness at all, because you know,
Speaker 4: at least with my household, there's a lot obviously like
Speaker 4: a lot of machismo, but it was mostly like we
Speaker 4: don't talk about it saying and that was something that
Speaker 4: was really beautiful about Justin and his character. And you know,
Speaker 4: I I feel like I just grew up with Betty
Speaker 4: and grew up with Justin and and had and much
Speaker 4: like you, I also had a high school romance, like
Speaker 4: and I had a high school romance with someone that
Speaker 4: I was in a play with, like and our first
Speaker 4: kiss was literally.
Speaker 2: On a stage, so you really were him?
Speaker 4: Yes, our first kiss literally was on a stage. It
Speaker 4: was crazy crazy. But I've said this on the pod before.
Speaker 4: I work in media because of Ugly Betty. I watched
Speaker 4: ugly Betty pre college and I just remember watching America
Speaker 4: Ferrera get like treated like shit in like the magazine industry,
Speaker 4: and you know.
Speaker 5: You said I want to I said that.
Speaker 2: I was like, and I want to go do that.
Speaker 4: And what's like absolutely insane is like only I'm only
Speaker 4: realizing this on my most recent rewatch. I did not
Speaker 4: realize this in real time or even with my second rewatch.
Speaker 4: Looking back retroactively, I went thrue so many real ass
Speaker 4: Teyle Novela asked things that happened in media actually happened
Speaker 4: to me, like editor rivalries, like I went to like
Speaker 4: a publishing boot camp that like Betty also went to,
Speaker 4: like transvengean stories like photoshoot drama, like booking cars from Brooklyn,
Speaker 4: Brooklyn to Manhattan to Brooklyn to Manhattan, like you know,
Speaker 4: getting too close to your boss, Like oh my god.
Speaker 4: That's like Another crazy thing about the show is like boundaries,
Speaker 4: like a boundary. The fact that Betty, like they doesn't
Speaker 4: have boundary, did not exist, they don't have boundaries, has
Speaker 4: no boundaries with her work or her family. Is like
Speaker 4: the coming out, like the fact that they wanted to
Speaker 4: throw justin a coming out party, like it's just like
Speaker 4: no fucking boundaries.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 4: One of my favorite lines in the show is in
Speaker 4: that episode where Ignacio says, the guys don't have a
Speaker 4: favorite color.
Speaker 2: They like them all, they like them all. We know
Speaker 2: you're gay, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: I also, though, we also have to talk about the
Speaker 1: way that I mean, we have to talk about the
Speaker 1: fashion of Ugly and the way that it predicted literally
Speaker 1: everything happening in fashion right now. Like I go on
Speaker 1: TikTok and I see like tiny Jewish Girl and all
Speaker 1: these other like maximalist girlies, and like Ugly Betty was
Speaker 1: the pink print period.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: The thing is is like, I mean, Patricia Field girl,
Speaker 2: what hello?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: And people mean enough said, people.
Speaker 4: Are not giving pat Fields credit in this show, like
Speaker 4: they were only thinking about sex and the city and
Speaker 4: all this other stuff she was.
Speaker 6: Because the thing, well, the Devil Wars product came out
Speaker 6: three months before Ugly Betty premiered, so and we I
Speaker 6: remember honest saying to me like, if this movie's a success,
Speaker 6: our show is going to be a success. Like and well, wow,
Speaker 6: you know the rest of it. But pat was is
Speaker 6: such a character, I mean, like she is an end
Speaker 6: to work with. Her is to be like just I
Speaker 6: mean like GOB's act. Like we would go in and
Speaker 6: have like I would have like two hour fittings, you
Speaker 6: know with her and and she would sit I mean
Speaker 6: she would sit on a chair with her dogs with
Speaker 6: a cigarette and just like and and she would put
Speaker 6: me in like the I mean, you know, things that
Speaker 6: would never get approved. Like there was a there was
Speaker 6: I remember we had to do like an outside scene
Speaker 6: and she had this huge black faux for like pimp
Speaker 6: coat to the floor and was like, I think Justin
Speaker 6: would wear this.
Speaker 2: And they're like like no, like no, I mean. And
Speaker 2: the thing is too, is that, like I mean I
Speaker 2: was were I.
Speaker 6: Think season three I exclusively wore Mark Jacobs, like all
Speaker 6: Mark Jacobs and so and and the thing is is
Speaker 6: that like Betty too. Like Betty's glasses, for example, they
Speaker 6: couldn't find the glasses, like they just they tried on
Speaker 6: hundreds of pairs. America tells this story, hundreds of pairs.
Speaker 6: They couldn't find the glasses, and Pat took the glasses
Speaker 6: off her face put them on America And those are
Speaker 6: Betty's glasses.
Speaker 2: You're shitting me. God, they were on Pat's face. They
Speaker 2: were Pat's glasses. That's iconic.
Speaker 4: That's that goosebumps.
Speaker 6: Those were Pat's glasses and she put them on and
Speaker 6: they looked in the mirror and they were like, that's it.
Speaker 2: Those are her glasses. That's the thing.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean America was also wearing like I mean,
Speaker 6: if you really look, if you like do if there
Speaker 6: was like an instagram like every outfit on Sex in
Speaker 6: the City or something for Ugly Betty, that was like
Speaker 6: breaking down these looks. Like Betty would be wearing upwards
Speaker 6: of ten thousand dollars worth of clothing, and she was
Speaker 6: wearing like Gucci skirts, and I mean she was wearing
Speaker 6: like new fashion. Yeah, yeah, like I mean, and and
Speaker 6: the thing is is that Pat is truly the queen
Speaker 6: of like the high low, you know, like you would
Speaker 6: be wearing a Versace suit but like you know, put
Speaker 6: it with like a belt that she found on Canal Street,
Speaker 6: you know whatever. And and her entire team like Molly
Speaker 6: and Paolo and Jackie and all of them, like they
Speaker 6: also spoke like this shorthand with each other too. That
Speaker 6: was like so incredible to see, like from even like
Speaker 6: are the people that would dress us like Kevin Mark,
Speaker 6: I remember like they were all so stoked to like
Speaker 6: work with her, and I think that like it wasn't
Speaker 6: lost on anyone, like the legendary legend status of miss
Speaker 6: pat and like no one does it like her, like no,
Speaker 6: and no one has done it since like her. I
Speaker 6: think that there have been very valiant attempts to try
Speaker 6: and do what Pat Field.
Speaker 2: Does and just it just doesn't. It's just not that
Speaker 2: once in a generation kind truly like she was. She
Speaker 2: was the moment.
Speaker 6: And and also in speaking to like this kind of
Speaker 6: what you were saying Fran about like not of their
Speaker 6: not being like one favorite character or like one per
Speaker 6: I mean, of course the show was about Betty, but
Speaker 6: like no one was also given like preferential treatment based
Speaker 6: on like like pat never looked at one character and
Speaker 6: was like this is a throwaway, like just put them
Speaker 6: in whatever, Like she and the team had true visions
Speaker 6: for like what each of these characters individually looked like,
Speaker 6: even like Ignacio, you know what I mean, And like
Speaker 6: it wasn't it's not always just about like who was
Speaker 6: wearing like the newest designer clothing, it's like what makes
Speaker 6: sense for this character? And it was very very deliberate
Speaker 6: and very intentional. Like I think Hilda was probably one
Speaker 6: of my favorite, like aesthetically favorite characters because she was
Speaker 6: just so radically Hilda, Like there was no like and
Speaker 6: only Anna playing Hilda could wear those clothes in that
Speaker 6: way and tell the story that it was telling, do
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? Like it was it would
Speaker 6: have been if if I wasn't playing Justin. I think
Speaker 6: Justin might have looked a little bit different.
Speaker 1: The clothes never wore the character. The characters were the clothes,
Speaker 1: and it was such a like perfect symbiosis.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that that and and I and I
Speaker 6: think that that just lends itself to like people that
Speaker 6: genuinely care about like their work too, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean. Like there, I think that there was just
Speaker 6: there's a true passion there and I and it's like
Speaker 6: it was so inspiring to like be around too, because
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, we would see our like little
Speaker 6: outfits and then you see like Vanessa walk out of
Speaker 6: her dressing room and like a vintage for sauce suit
Speaker 6: and you're just like fuck, like so fierce.
Speaker 4: The clothes were part of this like authentication of the
Speaker 4: characters really, and with Ignasio and Hilda, specifically, like those
Speaker 4: two characters were archetypes in a Latin family that were
Speaker 4: so scary close to just people in my life, people
Speaker 4: in the lives of other folks that I know that
Speaker 4: I've watched Ugly Betty, like I have an Ignossio in
Speaker 4: my life, like I have a Hilda in my life,
Speaker 4: and like and something that you were saying, like you know,
Speaker 4: they didn't they didn't have to. It wasn't just like
Speaker 4: who's wearing the hottest designer clothes. I think that's something
Speaker 4: that's so brilliant about like the language of clothes like
Speaker 4: in this show is that, Yeah, it would have been
Speaker 4: too easy for you know, if Betty if like Ugly
Speaker 4: that they were made today, she'd be like, you know,
Speaker 4: stomping out in like a Chipova luena like skirt or whatever,
Speaker 4: like you would think, but like what to actually incorporate
Speaker 4: thrifting and to know that, like Betty would wear this
Speaker 4: butterfly belt right, like.
Speaker 6: Well, that's also like telling the story of like telling
Speaker 6: the story of how are these people getting And that
Speaker 6: was also Pat had to has a distinct talent for that,
Speaker 6: Like when she would fight for things for us to wear,
Speaker 6: it would be like, well, he can wear the mark
Speaker 6: Jacob's thing because he knows fashion and like found it somewhere.
Speaker 2: He found it at Beacon's closet.
Speaker 6: Absolutely on, like you know, so like she also had
Speaker 6: a backstory for how we got into these outfits, like
Speaker 6: what what the thought process was when each of these
Speaker 6: characters gets up in the morning and gets dressed, which again,
Speaker 6: like that's just an amount, that's just an extracurricular work,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And not all costume designers do that, like I've been no,
Speaker 1: most of them do not. Yeah, I've been rewatching Buffy recently,
Speaker 1: and like they're in high school all wearing like Dulchanabana
Speaker 1: and Prada, and I'm like, I don't know that teenagers.
Speaker 6: Have access to that, and unless it's like a deliberate choice,
Speaker 6: like unless it's just like the euphoria of it all,
Speaker 6: yeah know what I mean, Like where it's like okay,
Speaker 6: like I get it, like you've you've made this world
Speaker 6: like this. But like I think that with with Ugly Betty,
Speaker 6: they obviously wanted it to be fantastical in some way,
Speaker 6: but not necessarily like aspirational in the same way that
Speaker 6: I think like fashion now kind of exists on like it,
Speaker 6: like for in Euphoria, for example, it's like the intention
Speaker 6: is that, like you want all like a bunch of
Speaker 6: gen zs to like want to look like them, whereas
Speaker 6: I feel like on Ugly Betty, like that was not
Speaker 6: necessarily the case, Like it wasn't that you want people
Speaker 6: to like want to dress like Wilhelmina or or Amanda
Speaker 6: or Betty. But if people identified with the characters because
Speaker 6: the clothes made so much sense to the character, then
Speaker 6: it just tells a different story.
Speaker 2: I think it's just a deeper story.
Speaker 1: I do have such a deep spot in my heart
Speaker 1: for Amanda. I know I love no favorites, but like
Speaker 1: Amanda was one of the I love Amanda.
Speaker 6: I mean we always talk about like if we were
Speaker 6: to do a reboot that like Amanda would still be
Speaker 6: the receptionist at Mode like that. She's like like we
Speaker 6: all like have changed and grown and are doing different things,
Speaker 6: and Amanda is like just still the receptionist in the
Speaker 6: circle desk as long as Becky Newton can play one
Speaker 6: or two additional characters like I'm good like her, I
Speaker 6: mean Amanda.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, wish another storyline that could not happen today,
Speaker 1: but it's so funny, so good.
Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry it was funny. I think it was funny.
Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 5: It was come for me another brilliant comic actress.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, it was knowing it was knowingly stupid,
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, and like, yeah, the thing like
Speaker 6: with like someone like Becky Newton too, is like all
Speaker 6: of that the characterization that she did of Amanda, like
Speaker 6: physical manifestations of it, like the way she would like
Speaker 6: walk down the hallway with the hand on her hip
Speaker 6: and like so exaggerated like runway like things like that
Speaker 6: where you like, looking back, I'm just like, whoa. These
Speaker 6: are such talented actors that had such a point of
Speaker 6: view about their character. Like I just I'm like in
Speaker 6: awe of like the just the choices that they made,
Speaker 6: even like and the way that Anna would walk as Hilda,
Speaker 6: like that's not the way that she like it, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. It's just these very small things
Speaker 6: that I recall that at the time I was just like, oh,
Speaker 6: like whatever, they're doing it. But now having matured and
Speaker 6: like you know, thinking a little bit more critically about
Speaker 6: like my craft and like what it is that I
Speaker 6: do for a living looking back at some of the
Speaker 6: choices that the Betty cast made, small choices like that
Speaker 6: that just have become so synonymous with their characters as well.
Speaker 6: Like you think of Amanda like stomping down the tube,
Speaker 6: you know, in this very dramatic, like ridiculous way, but
Speaker 6: it's because it's like become canon as like that's Amanda.
Speaker 4: Amanda slash Becky, like I think is a great example
Speaker 4: of like just like what you can't write right, you know,
Speaker 4: like like like her the hand of the hip like
Speaker 4: walk swish thing that you're talking about, like immediately in
Speaker 4: my mind, I know what it looks like and and yeah,
Speaker 4: you can't write that, right you the character.
Speaker 2: Well no, I mean you can't.
Speaker 6: And the thing is is that to take something like
Speaker 6: you know, to take a stage direction, especially like Wilhelmina
Speaker 6: like looks Betty up and down or like things like that,
Speaker 6: like you know, sure that can be written into a scrap,
Speaker 6: but like the way that that materializes is up to
Speaker 6: you or you know and so, and no one could
Speaker 6: do it the way that Vanessa Williams did it, Like
Speaker 6: Amanda like walks away like that's very vague, you know,
Speaker 6: she could have but the choices that Becky made are
Speaker 6: like incredible, you know, I mean, and Michael URI's a
Speaker 6: master at that stuff too.
Speaker 4: It's this it feels like it's similar to Hacks two,
Speaker 4: where like you can tell that in the casting they
Speaker 4: were reaching out to people that already had a kind
Speaker 4: of way of inhabiting a set, a way of like
Speaker 4: speaking talking, and that that helped their characters become so
Speaker 4: specific and.
Speaker 6: Like I think in their world, I think that Hacks
Speaker 6: and Ugly Betty, I think that like I have, I
Speaker 6: immediately felt this kind of electric feeling going onto the
Speaker 6: set of Hacks because it felt so similar to Ugly
Speaker 6: Betty in just kind of the culture of like everyone
Speaker 6: really got along from the jump. Everyone felt like I
Speaker 6: felt like there was a real notion that like everyone
Speaker 6: is here for a reason, no one is like as
Speaker 6: a throwaway character, Like everyone is important, and Paul Lucci
Speaker 6: and Jen like really hammered that home from the beginning.
Speaker 6: But I think that like the ways in which Ugly
Speaker 6: Betty might have told a story like the using clothing
Speaker 6: a lot of the time, and like, you know, I
Speaker 6: feel like Hacks, that story is told a lot in
Speaker 6: like our candor each individual character's candor. I think Paul
Speaker 6: Lucci and Jen and the writers of Hacks are like
Speaker 6: probably the greatest writers I've ever gotten a chance to
Speaker 6: work with. And because it's very rare that you read
Speaker 6: a script and like laugh out loud, but we're constantly
Speaker 6: all like cracking up in these table reads because the
Speaker 6: words themselves are so fucking funny. And so I think
Speaker 6: that it's each character has their own like, yeah, their
Speaker 6: own candor, their own like flavor, you know, And I
Speaker 6: that none of the other characters have, you know, like Ava,
Speaker 6: you know, like Hannah Einbinder's like portrayal of Ava, and
Speaker 6: Meg's Dalters Kayla and Poppies and Poppies, Kiki and My,
Speaker 6: Damien and Carls Marcus are all and and Paul's Jimmy
Speaker 6: like they all somehow meshed together, but like they couldn't
Speaker 6: be more different. And I think that that also it's
Speaker 6: really hard to do, you know, It's really hard to
Speaker 6: kind of like flesh out characters with out actively fleshing
Speaker 6: them out. Like I feel like one of the things
Speaker 6: that was confusing to me when we first started Hacks
Speaker 6: is that like Damien kind of pops in and out,
Speaker 6: you know, and I've said this before, and I like
Speaker 6: that Damien is kind of this enigma. I mean, we
Speaker 6: learn a little bit more about him in season three,
Speaker 6: but like not you know, but like I kind of
Speaker 6: like the idea of him being this person that's just
Speaker 6: like he comes to work, he does his job. He's
Speaker 6: good at it, and he doesn't have time for nonsense,
Speaker 6: you know, and doesn't like comedy. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 6: that like there were like I think at first I
Speaker 6: was searching for like who is he and like whatever,
Speaker 6: and I think that I was just being a little
Speaker 6: bit too.
Speaker 2: Actory about it.
Speaker 6: Like I was just like it's all like everything that
Speaker 6: I need is right in front of me. Like he's
Speaker 6: Deborah's assistant. He has no time for bullshit. He doesn't
Speaker 6: really like Ava, and you know, Marcus is his boss,
Speaker 6: and he has no time for people like Kayla or something,
Speaker 6: you know, like And I think that that to have
Speaker 6: so little but no so much is a testament to
Speaker 6: like apology and jen for sure, because I think that
Speaker 6: I was just so confused. It's like what is my
Speaker 6: what's my motive? And they were like to do your
Speaker 6: job and I was like that's simple. But that's but
Speaker 6: like that that says so much.
Speaker 1: You know, it must be a great feeling to have,
Speaker 1: you know, had this role an ugly Betty and like
Speaker 1: not been sure if you were going to come back
Speaker 1: to acting and then come back on a show like
Speaker 1: this where it seems like there are so many parallels
Speaker 1: in terms of like the work you're getting to do
Speaker 1: and the community of people you get to do it with.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, I mean, someone asked me recently, like
Speaker 6: how do you choose such great projects?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I did not.
Speaker 6: I don't choose projects like I'm not there, you know,
Speaker 6: like I I mean, after I graduated college, I realized
Speaker 6: that I didn't want to go to graduate school whatever.
Speaker 6: And I was like, I guess I'll move back to
Speaker 6: LA and like try and make it work. And no
Speaker 6: one would hire me. Like I'm just going to be
Speaker 6: like completely honest, Like no one would hire me. I
Speaker 6: could not get a job, Like I wasn't even getting
Speaker 6: like a callback for anything. Like it was really bleak
Speaker 6: for like a few years. And then twenty twenty happened,
Speaker 6: and you know, the pandemic, and I, you know, surely
Speaker 6: wasn't working. And then I was like it was November
Speaker 6: and I was like, if I don't get a job
Speaker 6: by January of twenty twenty one, I'm just going to
Speaker 6: have to like go back to school or like do something,
Speaker 6: because I'm going to like quit.
Speaker 2: And then I got Hacks in November of twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: Wow. That's I mean, and it's so grateful for it,
Speaker 4: like part of what you were saying earlier about just
Speaker 4: like what actors bring to the table, and with Hacks specifically,
Speaker 4: like I do think that you bring a specificity. I
Speaker 4: think every character in Hacks brings a very specific comedic style.
Speaker 4: And I think that someone like Meg is a really
Speaker 4: great example of that. Someone like Poppy is a great
Speaker 4: example of that. It's like irreplicable. I mean, everybody's gonna
Speaker 4: try and copy what like you do or what like
Speaker 4: Meg's aalter does. Everyone's trying to do what Meg is doing.
Speaker 2: But everyone's trying to do it right now, but no
Speaker 2: one's Meg.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that specificity like lent itself to y just
Speaker 4: like the characterization and everything that makes these characters breathe.
Speaker 6: Again, Like that just speaks to Paul and Luccia and
Speaker 6: Jen the and the the like vision that they had
Speaker 6: for this show. And like again, like, you know, even
Speaker 6: though the show is about Debora Vance and Ava and
Speaker 6: their relationship, you know, everyone in the ensemble is extremely important.
Speaker 6: And I mean I also like, just in terms of
Speaker 6: like what I like to watch, I like to watch
Speaker 6: shows about an ensemble.
Speaker 2: I like an ensemble cast.
Speaker 6: I mean, I love like Avid Elementary right now that
Speaker 6: my friend Tyler's not, like, you know, I love I
Speaker 6: love that kind of quick pace that an ensemble cast
Speaker 6: kind of a Forde You don't spend too much time
Speaker 6: on one person at you know, like you're jumping around,
Speaker 6: You're getting to see different you know, and then that
Speaker 6: opens the door too for like individuals to interact that
Speaker 6: wouldn't necessarily interact, you know, And I think that that's
Speaker 6: it's just fun. Like I think that it just keeps
Speaker 6: us on our toes too, to be like, what is
Speaker 6: Damien doing this episode?
Speaker 2: Who is he with?
Speaker 1: I also think a good ensemble means that the world
Speaker 1: of the show feels real.
Speaker 2: And that's sure.
Speaker 1: That's the thing I think that really does that really
Speaker 1: sticks out to me about both of these shows we're
Speaker 1: talking about, is they because of the specificity of the
Speaker 1: characters and the way they interact and the fact that
Speaker 1: none of them are siloed only with certain people, and
Speaker 1: that they all co mingle. It does feel like a
Speaker 1: really like fully realized, fleshed out world. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why people love the show so much.
Speaker 6: And you can see I think that we were talking
Speaker 6: about earlier is like applicable here is that like sometimes
Speaker 6: these people suck, you know, like there's no universally good person.
Speaker 6: You know, there's no universally virtuous person on hacks, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. We're all kind of fucked up
Speaker 6: a little bit. And I think that that again, that's
Speaker 6: what grounds it in the world, like because they're made
Speaker 6: to be human, like the like the I don't know,
Speaker 6: the peaks and valleys of the debra of a relationship
Speaker 6: for example, that like she loves her even though she's
Speaker 6: getting sued, even that you know, like it like the complications,
Speaker 6: the con like how confusing human relationships actually are and
Speaker 6: how complex human relationships actually are.
Speaker 2: That like you know, and and people fuck up a lot.
Speaker 6: And I think that like so like human like making
Speaker 6: these people human, I think makes the world seem real,
Speaker 6: I guess, and.
Speaker 5: That's a career illness.
Speaker 4: That's something that makes it I think also just fun
Speaker 4: to watch retroactively, like we were you know, joking about
Speaker 4: how it's problematic now or whatever. But like if we
Speaker 4: we say on this show, I mean this is actually
Speaker 4: kind of like the whole conceit of like like a
Speaker 4: virgin in general, is that like we these like things
Speaker 4: that come from the past, like and quote unquote the
Speaker 4: past two thousand and six. You know they uh, it's
Speaker 4: not that like we shouldn't watch them anymore because they're
Speaker 4: problem but it's that we need to revisit them and
Speaker 4: put them in the context of today. Like that's the
Speaker 4: whole thing about It's like if we, as like a
Speaker 4: culture decided to categorically like boycott slash girl cott like
Speaker 4: anything that they caught they caught, Yeah, yeah, anything that
Speaker 4: we if we categorically just decided we're not watching this anymore,
Speaker 4: like canceled, like we can't watch it. It's like that
Speaker 4: is not growth, that's not justice. It's it's about taking it,
Speaker 4: bringing it back and then keeping it in its own context.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do we what did we learn here? You know,
Speaker 2: what what did we learn here? What can we keep?
Speaker 2: And what do we need to change?
Speaker 6: You know, like what can we bring what can we
Speaker 6: bring into the now and what stays in two thousand
Speaker 6: and eight, you know, and that's part of them, And
Speaker 6: that's what I would like.
Speaker 1: To bring a couple of Betty's outfits into the now specifically.
Speaker 4: That's right, honestly, Okay, you were saying we need in
Speaker 4: every outfit on Ugly Betty on top Market. I definitely
Speaker 4: looked for that handle. It's like the handle has been
Speaker 4: kin Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know who's going to do it. It's surely
Speaker 2: not going to be me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if I have this to do
Speaker 4: all of like the wardrobe research, but like it really
Speaker 4: would be so good.
Speaker 2: I would be fears right I did.
Speaker 4: I recently tweeted about all like a lot of like
Speaker 4: Betty's outfits and just how like Pat Fields like create
Speaker 4: like really was the beginning was like kind of the
Speaker 4: early adopter of like cluttercore, like this kind of Alessandro
Speaker 4: Gucci kind of.
Speaker 6: I mean that's like literally what it was like no
Speaker 6: one was wearing socks and pomps. Yeah, Like no one
Speaker 6: was wearing socks and palms.
Speaker 4: Now every girls are now It's like in every every
Speaker 4: product me collection is socks and kitten heels. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: I I want to ask, maybe this is like a
Speaker 4: as we're like winding down, here cameos on ugly Betty
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, my god, just to rattle off a ton
Speaker 4: like Adele Shakira, Victoria Beckham, Kristin Chena with Martha.
Speaker 1: Stewart, Lindsay Lohan, Lindsay, Okay.
Speaker 4: Look, don't forget about Leelo, Kathina Jimi as like the
Speaker 4: fairy god orthodontist. Like yes, like literally like the cast.
Speaker 5: Of Wicked on Broadway, truly yes.
Speaker 4: And let it be said, tim God like Lucy Lou
Speaker 4: Like it is just that the taste was there and
Speaker 4: it's funny. Like something that I kind of realized as
Speaker 4: I was rewatching now was that there's so many people
Speaker 4: that I just didn't have in appreciation for when I
Speaker 4: watched it as a kid, because I didn't know who
Speaker 4: a lot of these people were. I was in a
Speaker 4: cultural vacuum. It only retroactively. You're like, oh, like the casting,
Speaker 4: there's such a taste level in the casting, whether it's
Speaker 4: someone like Octavia Spencer Monique has like the funniest like bit, Like.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just crazy like having like someone like
Speaker 6: Octavia Spencer, who I remember working with like she was
Speaker 6: so sweet, so kind, so good, so fucking and like
Speaker 6: and like I just remember I remember when she was
Speaker 6: on the show, everyone being like my god like and
Speaker 6: and also like people had known her because she'd been
Speaker 6: around forever and like but she wasn't.
Speaker 2: An Oscar winner.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well no, and and I feel like but I
Speaker 6: just remember the the energy that she brought, like and there,
Speaker 6: like there's a scene where she like is like MASSI
Speaker 6: us reaching out and like I like and I remember
Speaker 6: I remember that because we were shooting another scene that
Speaker 6: and we were there and she like improvised that, you know,
Speaker 6: like she's like she's I mean, I just remember her
Speaker 6: being like so fun to be around and and and
Speaker 6: bringing this energy and like and again like just working
Speaker 6: with a person where you're like, whoa, they're really good
Speaker 6: and like the choices that they make are really smart.
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know who Patty Lapone was, no idea.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: And now someday again, the some day came for all
Speaker 2: of these people. Who else was there?
Speaker 6: I mean there were a lot of designers, a lot
Speaker 6: of I remember Victoria back and being very nice. Is
Speaker 6: Isaac mus rocky Isaac ms Rockey Zach Posen was on
Speaker 6: Area Adriana.
Speaker 4: I I feel like I'm honestly okay. The The Octavia
Speaker 4: Spencer's last episode one of my favorites, the last reading,
Speaker 4: like I remember that from like I've I will constantly
Speaker 4: just like say, got a loans to.
Speaker 6: Certain things stick out in my mind of like you know,
Speaker 6: of things that I maybe saw clips of or was
Speaker 6: there for, like little lines, little things that were done.
Speaker 6: I remember like when uh, when Judith Light was in
Speaker 6: when Claire was in jail and and justin I still
Speaker 6: have it. I think it's at my parents house. I
Speaker 6: have the free Claire shirt. Go wow, somewhere It's like,
Speaker 6: what do you.
Speaker 4: Mean somewhere my memory? It should be right there.
Speaker 5: In memory it right now.
Speaker 6: A box of Ugly Betty stuff at my parents' house.
Speaker 6: Like when we when we got canceled, we were all
Speaker 6: so upset that we just like went and stole everything.
Speaker 6: So everything, honey, so everything, the box of Ugly Betty paraphernalia.
Speaker 4: You and I are going to back channel about that.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be we can buy some of that off
Speaker 4: of you. The Octavia Spencer episode something that I just
Speaker 4: think it's emblematic of like something that's like so juicy
Speaker 4: with every single character came through this show is like
Speaker 4: again and I personally am trying to like mandate Ugly
Speaker 4: Betty Rewatches, like we as a culture need to have
Speaker 4: the ugly Betty Rewatch the way maybe I'll watch it for.
Speaker 2: The first time.
Speaker 5: Start a podcast, babe, honey, yeah maybe no.
Speaker 4: No, no, no no, don't don't start a podcasts. Don't spart,
Speaker 4: don't do that, like protect yourself.
Speaker 2: I'll come back on here and talk.
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, that's what we want. That's what we want
Speaker 4: part two. But Octavia does, Like I get the reason
Speaker 4: I'm advocating for like rewatches is because there's just so
Speaker 4: much juice that you miss, and like with Octavia specifically,
Speaker 4: she it's like the most ridiculous character, completely deluded person
Speaker 4: who is like kind of evil, kind of whack like
Speaker 4: kind of unwell. And the way her, yeah, the way her,
Speaker 4: the way Ignacio you know, brings her back into reality
Speaker 4: and the realization on her face made me physically cry.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three, I was like so cat debated
Speaker 4: by what she does as an actress. Yeah, and everybody
Speaker 4: on that show just like knew how to do this
Speaker 4: lapstick and they knew how to do the heart well.
Speaker 6: I think that that also, Like I think that all
Speaker 6: of the guest stars also kind of really quickly like
Speaker 6: understood the assignment to like they they got it like
Speaker 6: they I And that I think is pretty rare as well,
Speaker 6: Like the idea of like these people coming and doing
Speaker 6: one episode a little arc of like three, and I
Speaker 6: feel like for the most part, every guest star like
Speaker 6: understood the world that they were walking into, like that
Speaker 6: it had to be a little bit irreverent and ridiculous,
Speaker 6: but grounding it in the world, like they just really
Speaker 6: understood and kind of entered very seamlessly, like Adam Rodriguez
Speaker 6: coming in and playing and playing Hilda's man and like
Speaker 6: and that whole Like I got to work with Adam
Speaker 6: a lot, and like, you know, he's also extremely funny
Speaker 6: and you know, kind of brought this Bobby character like
Speaker 6: to a different place that we weren't really expecting. And
Speaker 6: so I think that, you know, it was it was
Speaker 6: also great to have guest stars that understood the assignment,
Speaker 6: like the actors that came on.
Speaker 4: You know who else was that was Kristin Johnson, Oh my.
Speaker 6: God, yeah, well, I mean Kristin Johnson and anything is
Speaker 6: just like slightly Kristin Johnson, which I love, right, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. It's kind of like she's got
Speaker 6: like the Jennifer Coolidge kind of thing going. It's kind
Speaker 6: of had that.
Speaker 2: Like where it's like she's playing a character, but like
Speaker 2: there's still something just her, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: New York isn't cool anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, New York's not cool anymore. So bored I could die.
Speaker 4: Did you have a favorite guest star that you worked
Speaker 4: with or cameo appearance that that.
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 6: Adam Rodriguez was really really fun. I mean because we
Speaker 6: got like he came in again, like kind of towards
Speaker 6: the end of our run. And it was also in
Speaker 6: the it was in the era of like, you know,
Speaker 6: Justin's kind of coming out thing, and I just thought
Speaker 6: that the Bobby character, like I just thought was so funny,
Speaker 6: like the the when he comes in and they're decorating
Speaker 6: Betty's apartment for the coming out party, and he's like,
Speaker 6: this doesn't seem right, Like there's some I can't put
Speaker 6: my finger on it, but this doesn't seem right. And
Speaker 6: then Michael like Mark comes In is like take this down,
Speaker 6: and he's like see. And I thought that that was
Speaker 6: also a really again like the subtext of something funny
Speaker 6: that is also making a political statement of like this
Speaker 6: machismo Latin got coming in and being extremely like accepting
Speaker 6: and just trying to like become friends with Justin and
Speaker 6: trying to understand him and trying to like not even
Speaker 6: understand him.
Speaker 2: I think he did understand him.
Speaker 6: I think it was more like, hey, I'm an ally
Speaker 6: like I'm trying, I'm trying to like support you. And
Speaker 6: I think that that also again is like a political
Speaker 6: statement and of itself. I think that Justin being conditioned
Speaker 6: to like kind of have his guard up, as many
Speaker 6: queer people do, especially you know around on like Sis
Speaker 6: had men right of like kind of having to have
Speaker 6: your guard up at all times because you know, rightfully so,
Speaker 6: and then having someone that like looks like Adam Rondriguez
Speaker 6: with a name like Bobby from New York City that
Speaker 6: is just like I won't tell your mom, but like
Speaker 6: you got to do something about that, like you have
Speaker 6: to like let your family know like where you're at.
Speaker 6: Like I just thought that was a really beautiful story
Speaker 6: and I thought that it was like like a political statement,
Speaker 6: but like done in such a funny way, like Bobby
Speaker 6: is silly, and.
Speaker 1: It was a complicated story. We're here, we're queer, we suck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's powerful.
Speaker 4: Listen a very relevant ending question. I don't know if
Speaker 4: there's tea here. I do feel we were rubbed of
Speaker 4: a Gaga cameo, and I feel like I was like
Speaker 4: waiting for her to be in there. She's I just
Speaker 4: finished season I.
Speaker 5: Don't think that.
Speaker 1: I don't think the timing was quite right, because it
Speaker 1: was it would have been right at the beginning.
Speaker 6: Of her romance was out in season three, right, I mean,
Speaker 6: I feel like that would have been the time to
Speaker 6: get her.
Speaker 2: Was before she was on Gossip Girl. Well, well yeah
Speaker 2: she was in season four.
Speaker 4: There's this whole arc where Justin is like going to
Speaker 4: be on set for like the Gaga photo shoot or whatever,
Speaker 4: and I was like, is Gaga coming?
Speaker 6: I think they wanted to get her, and I think
Speaker 6: that it was just, you know, she was just probably
Speaker 6: a scheduling thing or whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure that Lady Gaga
Speaker 2: watched Ugly Betty Girl.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Gaga, Yeah, she she'll be in the reboot.
Speaker 2: I'm sure she well.
Speaker 1: When we finally have her on the show, we will
Speaker 1: make her answer for that, along with all.
Speaker 5: Of her other woor crimes.
Speaker 1: Slide into our DMS at Like a Virgin four twenty
Speaker 1: sixty nine and tell us if you're starting an ugly
Speaker 1: Betty rewatch. Are you a Betty? Are you a Wilhelmina?
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Speaker 1: Della Pato. And next week we will be back with
Speaker 1: an episode all about Anna Wintour and then met Gala
Speaker 1: with mikel.
Speaker 3: Street. So that's very exciting.
Speaker 1: Make sure to follow us on Instagram Like a Virgin
Speaker 1: for twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host rose Dam.
Speaker 1: You can find me anywhere online at rose Dam you and.
Speaker 4: I'm brand you can find me at France squishkowhere on
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