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Speaker 1: You walked so that Kurt on Glee could grapevine.

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Speaker 2: That's right, she's sheen.

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Speaker 3: I'm me no ma, not ny no, No, what is

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Speaker 3: your childhood tradah? I am a cook shocker.

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Speaker 2: You know what's going down the floor like us round.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give

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Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture today's takes.

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Speaker 2: I'm Ra's Damu.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Fran Toronto, And I don't know why I

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Speaker 4: like that. It's your birthday, Yeah, it's birthday sing to you? No, no,

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Speaker 4: please don't. I think it would be a great gift

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Speaker 4: for you to not sing wow.

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Speaker 1: Well, but I'll let it slide with your birthday.

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Speaker 4: Well you wouldn't let I don't know if you would

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Speaker 4: want Would you want me to sing to you on

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Speaker 4: your birthday?

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Speaker 3: Are you like?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 3: Is?

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Speaker 4: Actually? Like I feel like there are two different kinds

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Speaker 4: of people in this world. People that like happy Birthday

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Speaker 4: being sung to them and people that don't.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's always mortifying, but I would rather

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Speaker 1: it happen than not happen.

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Speaker 2: Do you find the same?

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Speaker 1: I mean I did sing I was, I did sing

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Speaker 1: Happy birthday to you last night at your birthday party,

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to give you a private sort of

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe singing, oh okay version of it.

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Speaker 4: Oh, we were gonna sexy version. Oh I see, so

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Speaker 4: you were you were saving the sexy for this record.

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Speaker 4: I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, you looked great. Yesterday I

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Speaker 4: asked all my friends to meet me at a bar

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Speaker 4: and dress glam, and I will say not very many

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Speaker 4: people were on theme, but you were on theme. Rose.

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Speaker 1: Well, I did my version of glam, which was I

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Speaker 1: wore a dress, but I wore it over jeans. I'm

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Speaker 1: very much into that sort of like early two thousands

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Speaker 1: dress over jeans thing that's been happening. And Jill or

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Speaker 1: is that my dellery? Duff, it's all the girls, it is.

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Speaker 1: Even when I did my Buffy rewatch recently, there was

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Speaker 1: an episode where Buffy was wearing a dress over jeans

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, wow, mother says, so, then

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Speaker 1: I suppose it's what we're doing. Did you have fun

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Speaker 1: of your birthday party last night? I really did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean my goal was to just do something that

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Speaker 4: was casual and easy and had like food and drinks,

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Speaker 4: and people could show up whenever and get a good

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Speaker 4: group picture. And you were able to sneak into the

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Speaker 4: group picture before you snuck off.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 1: I literally I left, I said goodbye to you, did

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Speaker 1: not to go bye to anyone else, and went and

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Speaker 1: got in my uber that was waiting for me at

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Speaker 1: the curb.

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Speaker 4: You were like, You're like, and that's a wrap? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: How late? Did y'all stay at whatever? That place was

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Speaker 1: not that much longer? Honestly, we the night ended a

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Speaker 1: nice and early.

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Speaker 4: I said, you know that it would end at ten

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Speaker 4: because I didn't want people to like pull up late,

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Speaker 4: and I think we stay there until ten thirty. But

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Speaker 4: like you know, I don't know how you like to

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Speaker 4: do birthdays. I always throw something for myself, like every

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Speaker 4: single time, whether it's like a vacation or a party

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Speaker 4: or a bar meat or a dinner or something. But

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Speaker 4: I like that event to be not on my birthday

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Speaker 4: so that I'm not stressed on my birthday because I

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Speaker 4: feel like I've learned the hard way that like coordinating

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Speaker 4: and producing my own birthday party is time consuming and

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Speaker 4: stressful and not a good way to spend your birthday.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Usually we go on like a vaca or something I

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Speaker 4: feel like, but we've been.

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Speaker 1: Do I know it feels weird not to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: like in the desert somewhere celebrating your birthday this year. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy that we'll be on Fire Island right

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Speaker 1: before my birthday, the.

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Speaker 4: Simon, That's what I was just about to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: Fire Island is going to be that moment. I honestly

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Speaker 4: was texting folks about, like folks that are maybe staying

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Speaker 4: at her house, trying to get those rooms filled. And

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited to go back. Rose like me too.

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Speaker 1: I do think though, I'm fiending for a vacation and

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna have to go away before before

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Speaker 1: the summer. I really need to go somewhere, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do.

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Speaker 4: Are you eyeing anywhere in particular?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I either want to like

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Speaker 1: fly somewhere and like do something, but that I also

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Speaker 1: I like don't necessarily want to like go by myself.

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Speaker 1: And then I was thinking maybe of driving somewhere and

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Speaker 1: going to a spa that could be nice in a

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Speaker 1: hotel and just getting Spa treatments for a couple.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like Boutiqui spa hotel. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

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Speaker 4: yeah that's that's sexy, that's mixy.

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Speaker 1: Are you doing anything self carry for your birthday? Are

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Speaker 1: you self carrying lo? Yeah, I'm self carrying. Laurel and

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Speaker 1: I are gonna go.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna meet at the gym and do the hot

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Speaker 4: tub and sauna that are at my gym, and that's

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Speaker 4: what most do you go to? I will not say

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Speaker 4: on the pod I go to. We'll cut it tell

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Speaker 4: me yeah, yeah, Phoebe can bleep. I go to Brooklyn.

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Speaker 4: It's very it's pretty. It's closer to you than it

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Speaker 4: is to me, actually.

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Speaker 1: And that's good to know because I've been looking for

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Speaker 1: a gym. Do you recommend?

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Speaker 4: It's amazing and it's so bougie and really good vibes,

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Speaker 4: like it's a pretty like there's a there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of queers, there, a lot of lesbians. I don't see

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Speaker 4: any dolls, but I never see dolls at the gym.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't really want necessarily to go to a gym

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Speaker 1: where I'll know a lot of people. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't like at the gym. I want to be invisible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and I am highly visible in my gym,

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Speaker 4: but I don't talk to anybody like I don't like

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Speaker 4: I kind of stay in my own lane and like

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Speaker 4: mind my own business. But I am very very loud.

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Speaker 4: I'm I will Okay, I flirt.

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Speaker 5: I know that that's a lie.

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Speaker 4: I do flirt sometimes at the gym. It happens. I

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Speaker 4: do wear I also wear very loud clothing in the gym.

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Speaker 4: I'll be I'll like wear a T shirt that's just

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Speaker 4: like it'll be like I don't know, it'll say like

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Speaker 4: drug addict transsexual not actually, but like we should we

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Speaker 4: should sell a drug addict transsexual TA shirt?

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Speaker 1: You should, Yeah, coming to like a virgin four twenty

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Speaker 1: sixty nine dot com. By the way, we have merch

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Speaker 1: at that website. If you want to go there and

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Speaker 1: buy some now. It would be a great birthday present

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Speaker 1: for Fran if you did that, and if you became

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Speaker 1: a Patreon at patreon dot com slash like yes, and

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Speaker 1: that is a great birthday present. Do you feel another

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Speaker 1: year older and wiser?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Actually, Like I know that's kind of like a throwaway,

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Speaker 4: like sometimes it's like a throwway thing to say or

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Speaker 4: thing to ask, but like I really feel so own.

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Speaker 4: And you know, anybody that listens to this podcast, I

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Speaker 4: think knows that I've just a lot has changed in

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Speaker 4: the last year. And I think last year, during my birthday,

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Speaker 4: this state that I was in, I state that you

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Speaker 4: were in, the literal state that I was in.

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Speaker 5: The state of California.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I was a different girl. I was identifying differently.

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Speaker 4: I was not identifying differently, but like, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I was just kind of learning about who I was

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Speaker 4: and knowing who I was. And this year is just

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Speaker 4: like I really do know who I was, and I'm

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Speaker 4: comfied with who I am and like reveling in that.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that's like a very like I'm

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Speaker 4: in my thirties thing.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's so magical.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, no one knows where in my thirties

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Speaker 4: and no one should ever know. So don't you dare

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Speaker 4: tell it where my age is shut down?

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Speaker 2: Fuck you better.

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Speaker 4: We're bleeping that Phoebe, we're fleeting. We're bleeping.

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Speaker 1: My age friend said last night that she always wants

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Speaker 1: her age to remain a mystery.

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Speaker 4: A mystery. So if you if anybody ever asked you, like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, late twenties or something I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I go up, I say, oh, I think she's

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Speaker 1: like early forties. Yeah, then people are like, wow, she

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Speaker 1: looks so good for her as.

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Speaker 4: She looks so good for her age. Yeah, that is

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Speaker 4: that is the move. Yeah, but I don't have anything planned.

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Speaker 4: I'm like literally gonna run errands. I'm gonna get groceries,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to take care of Mysel'm going to clean

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Speaker 4: to my house this morning. Cut my flowers?

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Speaker 1: Did you start unpacking any of your boxes? I find virgins.

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Speaker 1: I finally went to frans new place last week for

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Speaker 1: the first.

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Speaker 5: Time, and it is lovely.

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Speaker 1: You have so much space.

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Speaker 4: I was gagged.

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Speaker 1: I think probably our apartments have like roughly the same

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Speaker 1: square footage. You just yeah have walls, yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I just have one off, but so much space.

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Speaker 2: But you you do need to do.

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Speaker 4: Some unpacking, I think the virgins I do. I'm like

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Speaker 4: really behind, but the virgins should know that we You

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Speaker 4: and I were watching with Laurel Charleston Mulin Rouge and

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Speaker 4: inducting her into that which may or may not she

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Speaker 4: had never seen it, yes, had never seen it. That

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Speaker 4: may or may not be like a virgin content later

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Speaker 4: at some point, but like God, I forgot that movie

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Speaker 4: is I think I I came to realize rewatching it again,

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Speaker 4: that Moonlan Bruge is in my top five movies. I

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Speaker 4: think the top five.

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Speaker 1: I wonder it's birthday, so let's hear the.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Mulan Rouge, Moonstruck, cats don't dance. Oh god, I

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Speaker 4: don't know. Maybe that's the three I let said five. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we said five, yes, and Fran yes and fuck. I

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Speaker 4: feel like I have. I feel like when I think

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Speaker 4: about the things that define me, it's always like TV shows.

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Speaker 4: Is there anything that comes to mind for you that

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Speaker 4: we've talked about in the pod that was like a

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Speaker 4: big the Devil?

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Speaker 3: Maybe?

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Speaker 4: No, I mean not.

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Speaker 1: Hercules Love Herculess is definitely in the top.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, girl, you got Hercules is one hundred

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Speaker 4: and ten percent in my top five.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Two of my top fives are cartoon movies. What does

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Speaker 4: that say about me?

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Speaker 5: Parts of the Caribbean?

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Speaker 2: Shut up.

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Speaker 4: Wait, I'll think of the fifth. And if I think

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Speaker 4: of the fifth, then maybe it'll be you know, our

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Speaker 4: Patreon exclusives.

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Speaker 5: Okay, great?

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Speaker 1: Great, Speaking of which, today we have an episode that's

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Speaker 1: all about Ugly Betty, which is very exciting. It's Frans

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Speaker 1: Birthday spectacular and we are going to be talking with

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Speaker 1: Marcin Delacado, who played Justin Suarez on Ugly Betty, which

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Speaker 1: is very exciting, and we have some bonus exclusive little

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Speaker 1: tidbits from that conversation that will be available on our

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Speaker 1: Patreon And that's something you can come to expect from

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Speaker 1: our Patreon content is when we are doing these episodes

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Speaker 1: with guests, we will be cutting off some juicy little

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Speaker 1: tidbits and saving them for patrin On so you can

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Speaker 1: get even more of our conversation with that.

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Speaker 4: Uh. I'm just so fucking stoked for this episode, Rose

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Speaker 4: and like for the Virgins, Ugly Betty, if you've never

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Speaker 4: seen it before, is a really a wild kind of

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Speaker 4: like rompy workplace workplace comedy. I would say it straddles

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Speaker 4: like sitcom and soap opera because it's based on a

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Speaker 4: telenovela called Betty La Fea and has a very telenovella

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Speaker 4: vibe in that like a lot of like the plots

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Speaker 4: and character arcs are very absurd and like ridiculous, But

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Speaker 4: the story follows obviously Betty Suarez and her family, which

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Speaker 4: includes Markin Delocado as her nephew and that she you

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Speaker 4: know is an assistant at a high end magazine called

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Speaker 4: Mode that's kind of like Vogue, and the whole vibe

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Speaker 4: is very like devilwars Prada as a TV show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it came out in fault. It came out

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Speaker 1: in fall two thousand and six, and then Double War's

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Speaker 1: product came out summer two thousand and six, so it

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Speaker 1: was definitely riding the wave of that, and the douvors

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Speaker 1: Prada had been a book sensation, so like that kind

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Speaker 1: of fashion ee workplace comedy was very in vogue, if

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Speaker 1: you will, especially with Sex and the City having wrapped

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Speaker 1: up just a couple of years before. Like that was

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Speaker 1: the time and pop culture where everyone was on the

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Speaker 1: hunt for the next Sex and the City and Ugly

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Speaker 1: Betty is definitely like playing in that world a little bit.

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Speaker 4: And I will say this show is very important to Rose,

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Speaker 4: extremely important to me, and I'm happy to announce that

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Speaker 4: in this episode we are starting, you know, a platform

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Speaker 4: wide like mandate to do Ugly Betty rewatches.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, you.

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Speaker 1: Can watch it on Hulu. I did a rewatch last

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Speaker 1: month and I really enjoyed myself.

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Speaker 4: Also, excuse my language, this is not a mandate to rewatch.

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Speaker 4: This is a trend date to rewatch. It's a trend date,

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Speaker 4: it's a FRAN dated, It's a fran date. I everybody

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Speaker 4: needs to be rewatching, like you gotta Rose, You got

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Speaker 4: to push pause on the girl's rewatches. Okay, and we

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Speaker 4: need to you know, we need to. I already we

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Speaker 4: need to watch.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 4: But I'm saying this because because you're one of the

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Speaker 4: primary influencers of girls rewatches, it's you and Hunter Harris

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Speaker 4: really pushing, really pushing that yes it is. And I

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Speaker 4: think that, well, it's not your fault, it's just your work.

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Speaker 4: And I think that you know, your energies could be

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Speaker 4: maybe like put behind Ugly Betty. You know, a marginalized

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Speaker 4: Latin trans story, you know trans story, Yes, yes, a

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Speaker 4: trans story. There's trans people in this show, and there's

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Speaker 4: Latin people in this show. And you know it's true.

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Speaker 2: There are.

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Speaker 4: I mean not real trans people, but at least trans characters.

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Speaker 1: Happy Birthday friend. I wait for this episode to relive

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Speaker 1: this conversation with markin Delacado, who you may know and

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Speaker 1: virgins you may know, if not from Ugly Betty from Hacks.

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Speaker 1: And this is so exciting. We've never talked about a

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Speaker 1: cultural object like this with someone who was part of it.

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Speaker 3: That's insane.

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Speaker 6: It's been like fifteen years. I don't think that anyone is.

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Speaker 6: I don't think that ugly Betty is going to get

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Speaker 6: me in trouble.

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Speaker 4: When you say get in trouble, do you mean like

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Speaker 4: get in trouble in this era of your life as

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Speaker 4: in the adult part of your career? Are you talking

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Speaker 4: about like.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, any No, I think like now, I mean I

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Speaker 6: just like I mean, when I was a kid, you know,

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Speaker 6: like I didn't really say anything that was controversial or anything.

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Speaker 6: I feel like now I have to temper myself. But

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Speaker 6: I'm sober right now, so like I think that I'll

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Speaker 6: be okay.

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Speaker 4: Oh we love that Rose is also not not drinking.

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Speaker 4: We love we love. Oh you mean like sober in

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Speaker 4: this very moment. Sober in this very moment. You're like,

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Speaker 4: I'm sober right now? Okay?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, cool? Cool? Cool? So can I can I

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Speaker 4: even ask? I don't know if this is the place

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Speaker 4: to start, but like, what's your so what's your relationship

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Speaker 4: to like Betty? Looking back on it, is it is it?

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Speaker 4: Like I know that it was like heat They were

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Speaker 4: like fam for you. They still are fam for you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're still fam. I mean I think that

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Speaker 6: the show, like I feel like we've because it's been

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Speaker 6: so many years since the show's been off the air,

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Speaker 6: like we've really stayed family. So like I feel like

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Speaker 6: my relationship to the cast and like especially like on Ortiz,

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Speaker 6: who's like my best friend in the whole world. She

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Speaker 6: like it's so separate from Ugly Betty now, like because

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Speaker 6: we've known each other longer off the show than we

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Speaker 6: have like when we were actually doing it, Like we

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Speaker 6: only did the show for four years, and I mean,

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Speaker 6: looking back at it, like I couldn't watch I still

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Speaker 6: haven't seen like a lot of the episodes. WHOA really

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Speaker 6: I've seen. I've seen three episodes. I've seen the first episode,

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Speaker 6: the last episode, and the wedding in season four. Those

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Speaker 6: are the only three episodes I've ever said.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, back up. So you're the virgin, so we're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna tell you. I mean, I was there, but I

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Speaker 2: was in every episode you were. You were there? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was there.

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Speaker 6: I mean I remember I remember like what like the

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Speaker 6: plots and everything and the storylines, but I just never

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Speaker 6: watched it because I was so like I was so

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Speaker 6: embarrassed by being on TV, which I know sounds like

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Speaker 6: an asshole thing to say. I actually like just like

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Speaker 6: I was so embarrassed, like but like it was very

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Speaker 6: It was very much like that because I feel like

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Speaker 6: there they were very formative years where kids are assholes anyway,

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Speaker 6: you know, like eleven, I was eleven until I was sixteen,

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Speaker 6: So like, those are pretty shitty years for everyone.

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Speaker 4: Everything's embarrassing, ugly beddy coming out in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 4: A lot of not great things about that, media wize,

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Speaker 4: a lot of not great things about that for you

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Speaker 4: as a child actor. Something that's amazing about having rewatched

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Speaker 4: the show so many times, especially now in like twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty three, deliciously problematic joke, Oh problem amazing, incredible. I like,

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Speaker 4: and I don't say this with any facetiousness, Like sometimes

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Speaker 4: I really do not all the jokes, but sometimes I

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Speaker 4: miss this era where you could say anything, because the

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Speaker 4: thing about making jokes that are like crazy or problematic

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Speaker 4: or just feel dated now is that sometimes.

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Speaker 1: No, I love it, and I miss that era of TV.

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Speaker 1: I mean I as you know, as a trans person,

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Speaker 1: I love every tranny she mail joke, may on ugy Betty.

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Speaker 1: I wish we were still making them today.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I remember one that sticks in my mind

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Speaker 6: of like a problematic joke. I think it was Wilhelmina

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Speaker 6: that said something about Betty like and a mud hut

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Speaker 6: or something like that, like something so wild and like.

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Speaker 6: The thing is, though, is that, Like, Yeah, I think

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Speaker 6: that there are plenty of things that obviously don't hold

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Speaker 6: up now, but I think that, like it's so important

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Speaker 6: to have had that, Like, you can't learn from anything

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Speaker 6: unless it's like out there, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 6: Like we can't like have like comprehensive conversations about like

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Speaker 6: political correctness and like representation and like and language, et cetera,

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Speaker 6: like without examples of it being wrong out or like

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Speaker 6: being out there.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 6: You can't grow from something that isn't out there and

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Speaker 6: being like interrogated, you know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's not like it was problematic and bad. It

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Speaker 1: was still always funny. It was the story Listen.

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Speaker 4: It was like one of the it was like the

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Speaker 4: most popular show on.

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Speaker 6: TV, Like, and I think that, like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 6: and the thing is is that, yeah, like you can't

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Speaker 6: say a lot of the things that we said on

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Speaker 6: there then, But like at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 6: I think that people are just so quick to be like,

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Speaker 6: we can't watch this anymore because they said one thing

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Speaker 6: that can be read as like transphobic or like where

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Speaker 6: it's just like girl, I mean, like take it for

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Speaker 6: what it is and for what it was, Like you

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Speaker 6: just let it live is what it was.

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Speaker 1: And put it in put it in the context of

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Speaker 1: its time. You can still.

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Speaker 6: Appreciate it exactly like Ugly Betty as it was would

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Speaker 6: never come back in the same way, do you know

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Speaker 6: what I mean? Like we we've had these discussions before.

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Speaker 5: It would be like and just like that.

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Speaker 6: Girl, and like I don't know about all that, you

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Speaker 6: know what I mean, and just like that it's not right.

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Speaker 2: It's just like that.

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Speaker 4: You know. Well, look, if you ever if you ever

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Speaker 4: hear back about the Ugly Betty rebate, you better loot me.

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Speaker 2: In Divine we talk at it all the time.

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Speaker 6: The thing is is that we all want to do

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Speaker 6: it and like it's it's really it's I mean, we're

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Speaker 6: all asked about it so often and literally every single

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Speaker 6: one of us says, you know, completely seriously, like we

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Speaker 6: would do it. It's just a matter of like what

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Speaker 6: is it? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like we

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Speaker 6: and we've had we've like when we get together, we

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Speaker 6: have these like kind of hypothetical discussions about like would

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Speaker 6: it be like of a reboot of just like one season,

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Speaker 6: like a limited series, like of like five episodes, would

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Speaker 6: it be a movie?

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Speaker 2: Would it be? Like what would it be?

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Speaker 6: And I think that everyone has kind of agreed that

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Speaker 6: we would like to do like four or five like

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Speaker 6: episodes and like you know, four or five like hour

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Speaker 6: long episodes and like wrap up like all of the

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Speaker 6: loose ends that were not wrapped up at the end

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Speaker 6: of the season, of the end of the series.

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Speaker 1: Because I will say, I will say I want more

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Speaker 1: and I would love a reboot, Like I think a

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Speaker 1: limited series sounds amazing. But I also think Ugly Betty

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Speaker 1: is a great example of a show that while I

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Speaker 1: think it was gone too soon, like it never got

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Speaker 1: the chance that I think, unfortunately a lot of long

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Speaker 1: running shows had back before everything got canceled after two seasons.

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Speaker 1: It never got the chance to get bad. It was, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was good. It was perfect the entire time it

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Speaker 1: was on air.

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Speaker 6: It's very like, I mean, we were so sad when

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Speaker 6: it ended, because it ended so abruptly, like they just

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Speaker 6: kind of like I mean to be honest, like the

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Speaker 6: network just fucked us and like just kept moving it

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Speaker 6: around and like so viewership was lost. And then you know,

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Speaker 6: you can argue like, well you just don't have the ratings,

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Speaker 6: and it's like, well, you moved us from Thursday to

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Speaker 6: Wednesday to Friday within the matter of a month, you

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Speaker 6: fucking idiots, Like are you hidding? So, like, of course

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Speaker 6: people don't know where to find it, Like when it

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Speaker 6: was on Thursdays at eight, you moved it to Wednesdays

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Speaker 6: at ten and then Fridays at nine. It's like no

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Speaker 6: one knows where to find the show. And like also

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Speaker 6: so this is before streaming services, so like there was

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Speaker 6: no like you can watch it on Hulu the day after,

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Speaker 6: Like that didn't that wasn't a thing. So like, yeah,

439
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 6: viewership was lost at the very end because we no

440
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 6: one knew where to find us. And I think it

441
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 6: was just an excuse. Again, like while when you have

442
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 6: things that are so revolutionary and break all of these

443
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 6: barriers and make people like question things and and kind

444
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 6: of like look inward at themselves and the ways in

445
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 6: which like they look at other people like there's going

446
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 6: to be backlash to all of that. And I think

447
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 6: that while Ugly Betty had so much, so much, so

448
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 6: many fans and like such a huge fan base and

449
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 6: inspired so many people, et cetera, you know, there's the

450
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 6: flip side to that, and a lot of people really

451
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 6: didn't like it. And I mean, I think that there's

452
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 6: also it's very parallel again to like the conversations that

453
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 6: we're having now about like banning drag shows and like

454
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 6: you know, like trans like transrites period. You know, there

455
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 6: there was like a lot of conversations when we were

456
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 6: making the show about Justin being a sexualized character of it,

457
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 6: like grooming children, like all of those same things and

458
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 6: rhetoric that we hear now it's just utterly hysteric that

459
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 6: we'd used. It's just recycled. It's just for just applying

460
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 6: it to different things. So it's like or to different communities.

461
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 6: Like Justin was considered to be this overtly sexualized child,

462
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 6: but like in reality, the you would only looking at

463
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 6: him as being sexualized means that you're sexualizing him, do

464
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 6: you know what I mean?

465
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think there's a.

466
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 6: Show where the writers explicitly made him a sexual.

467
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Now when that critique would never be applied to a

468
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: straight character ever.

469
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: Correct.

470
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 6: I mean, you know two gays too, like boys kissing,

471
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 6: It was just be it was considered to be like

472
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 6: grooming and this and that and you know, all of

473
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 6: the language again that we hear today in reference to

474
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 6: like drag, trans people, gender affirming healthcare.

475
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: Et cetera, et cetera. Like it's it's it's the same ship.

476
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 4: And we just want to say for the record, like

477
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: right here and now that like ugly Betty did groom me.

478
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: I am gay because.

479
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 5: I love Justin. I'm so happy that perfect.

480
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gay because of Justin. I'm trans because of

481
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 4: Rebecca Romains.

482
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 5: She is motherless, Meed is lord girl.

483
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna keep my mouth up.

484
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 4: On one Rose Rose, And I have said before Rebecca

485
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: Romaine is Transcannan because she was also Mystique, which is

486
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 4: a conically trans.

487
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: Character and she and like it's right, I didn't even think.

488
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 4: Of it, Yes, canonically trans, and like that's fucking fear.

489
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 4: We're not gonna, you know, wade into the weeds of

490
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 4: like you know, trans. Yeah, I'm surely try to do

491
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 4: all that, we're not going to do that, but we

492
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 4: have to say, like trans vengeance is something that is

493
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 4: underrepresented in media. And if I could fake my own

494
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: death in a ski accident and come back as a woman.

495
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 2: And you come back and a white late and paintball people.

496
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 4: And put myself on the cover of my own magazine

497
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 4: and be like I am here and I own fifty

498
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 4: one percent of this company. All of you family members

499
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 4: that like ousted me before.

500
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: You didn't believe in me, You don't fuck with you,

501
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: you said.

502
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: You would disown me. It's over for all of you, Like,

503
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 4: don't fuck with me.

504
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: So I do hope I get the chance to pick

505
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: what I death one day. But then the gag will

506
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: be that I'll.

507
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: That sounds pretty fierce.

508
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 4: We'll see I so literally, like I I That's what

509
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 4: I was kind of getting at with the two thousand

510
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: and seven thing is like I would absolutely love to

511
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 4: watch a show in twenty twenty three about a trans

512
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 4: woman that fakes thrown death and comes back, you know

513
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like that's iconic, that's amazing, Like but

514
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 4: it's because you know, we have these ideas of like

515
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: representation that get where we tiptoe around the stories or

516
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 4: were like we were just like too scared about what

517
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: we can happen. Like I don't know if anybody would

518
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: ever do that again, And I like.

519
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: Know, we need we need more, we need trans villains,

520
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: and like it's it's so funny because at the time

521
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: the culture had the ability to have a trans villain

522
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: because you know of mainstream transphobia and just like the

523
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: lack of representation. But it actually was because of that

524
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: that we got to have this like delicious character in

525
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: a way that I don't know, I don't regular exist

526
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: today because people would be too scared of.

527
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 6: Being I mean, I think that like the only way

528
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 6: that like to in my opinion, representation is only going

529
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 6: to be complete and well rounded if you see people

530
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 6: in every in like playing every role, like everything can't

531
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 6: you can't. Every trans character can't be a victim or

532
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 6: we only see trans people as victims. Like there are

533
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 6: plenty I have met plenty of trans people.

534
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: That sucks. Yes I'm one of them. I've met plenty

535
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: of stray people that fucking suck.

536
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 6: The boys suck, like you know what I mean, Like

537
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 6: people like people are people, and like the thing is

538
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 6: is that you can't fully humanize someone or a community

539
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 6: without seeing all different facets of like the human like identity,

540
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 6: like of like the human condition. People suck period Like

541
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 6: people that suck. I mean, listen, I'm like, I really

542
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 6: truly like feel like you can't. It's not well rounded

543
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 6: representation unless you see all different facets of like the

544
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 6: human condition. And some people just fucking suck. It doesn't

545
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 6: matter what their identity or their pronouns are.

546
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: Say say that.

547
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: Okay, you know I have to I have to ask

548
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: what was it like working with Vanessa Williams, Because I mean,

549
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about the mother of mother's.

550
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: That, let's talk about.

551
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

552
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: I was about to be like, well that's mother.

553
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 6: And then Judith's other mother will get to her. Oh man,

554
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 6: well Vanessa Williams. The thing is is that when we started,

555
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 6: I I was a huge fan of America Frearra because

556
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 6: sister heard of the Traveling Pants out that maybe a

557
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 6: year or two before and before that got to kick

558
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 6: it up on the Disney Channel.

559
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: Was my tea.

560
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 6: So like when I met her, like that's the only

561
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 6: person that I knew who and I was like like gobsmacked.

562
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 6: But like when we went to set and my mom.

563
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 6: My mom was obviously with me, and Vanessa was there.

564
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 6: I had no idea who Vanessa Williams was, and my

565
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 6: mom was like freaking out by her. And I was like,

566
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 6: who is this and she was like, you'll you'll know someday.

567
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 6: She was like, you'll you'll understand someday. And the thing

568
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 6: is is that Vanessa is just a very regal individual.

569
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 6: Like she is she's the nicest, most caring, nurture person.

570
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 6: But the bitch is scary, like when you first like

571
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 6: just just because she like looks like that, and like,

572
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 6: is just she's established mama, Like she's just she and

573
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 6: she knows she she knows what she's giving.

574
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 5: She knows she is the divadal herself.

575
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 6: That's right, and like, but I so I think that

576
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 6: I was quite afraid of her for a minute. But

577
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 6: I think that that very quickly dissipated when I got

578
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 6: to work with her, because it was in the very

579
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 6: beginning of the show, in the first season, like it

580
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 6: was kind of divided, like mode family, you know whatever.

581
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 6: And then slowly but surely, as the season progressed and

582
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 6: then the series progressed, like they we all kind of

583
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 6: intertwined with each other, and my first bit was with

584
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 6: Michael Yuri and Becky Newton, and then that quickly went

585
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 6: into Justin and Wilhelmina kind of working together and kind

586
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 6: of talking. Like I remember shooting the bit where she

587
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 6: she was wearing a blue outfit and she had sunglasses.

588
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: She was I knew, I knew you couldn't see I knew.

589
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 4: You were going to say this episode where you were

590
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 4: the seeing I gay Mark or like I think Mark

591
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: was the seeing I gay Mark.

592
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 6: And then you took go and then he left, yes,

593
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 6: and so and that was again it was crazy because

594
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 6: I was so intimidated by her, and it becomes so

595
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 6: quickly comfortable with like Anna and America and Tony Plana

596
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 6: that like going in and working with like like I

597
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 6: think at the time, Michael Ury in the first season,

598
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 6: Michael Ury's the age that I am now. So Michael

599
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 6: was twenty eight when we first started filming the show.

600
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 6: So and that's how old I am right now. So

601
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 6: like I think that, Uh, I think that it's also

602
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 6: kind of funny to think about, like me now working

603
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 6: with like an eleven year old. I'd be like, oh,

604
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 6: you know, like it could be very like ugh, you know,

605
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 6: like and I like, I get that now, and so

606
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 6: I think that, like, and the thing is is that

607
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 6: it wasn't like that at all. They were so patient

608
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 6: with me, you know, because you can only be so

609
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 6: professional as a kid. You know, like you're just stoked

610
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 6: to be there and like you're you have all this energy,

611
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 6: you're super hyper, but like there's also all of these

612
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 6: logistics to consider, Like I could only work a certain

613
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 6: amount of hours a day, so like I would they

614
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 6: would shoot all of my stuff and then the rest

615
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 6: of them would have to be there to finish, ok,

616
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 6: and like finish the scene.

617
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: So like they were very, very very patient with me.

618
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 6: And I think that that was also it it informed

619
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 6: the way that I kind of work now and my

620
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 6: professionalism now because I looked at the ways in which

621
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 6: these people were chipper and happy to be there to

622
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 6: do their job. But also like, you know, when it's

623
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 6: time to shut the fuck up and act, it's time

624
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 6: to shut the fuck up and act. Look, I mean,

625
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 6: and I learned that from Vanessa too. Like Vanessa was

626
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 6: very she's the first, she's the first one to want

627
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 6: a key, key, But when it's time to like get

628
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 6: the job done, mama, let's get get it done, you know.

629
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: The someone saying you know, you'll know some day about

630
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: like Vanessa Williams is like that was definitely my experience

631
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: as well. Vanessa one, Yeah, I found.

632
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: I I literally liked has come. I So Betty was

633
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: my first.

634
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 4: Impression of Vanessa Williams, which is crazy because she's an

635
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: icon of legend, has like a whole breadth of work

636
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: that preceded it, and like, but I do. It was

637
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 4: retroactive for me as well, because I remember just watching

638
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 4: it and being like, she's an icon, She's so magnetic.

639
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 4: Everything she says is funny, and even as I rewatched

640
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 4: this past month, like every single fucking joke is so funny,

641
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 4: and and and when by the time they got to

642
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 4: season three and season four there were the guardrails around

643
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 4: the propriety of Wilhelmina were like let down a little bit,

644
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 4: and she got to be wackier and whackier. I'm thinking

645
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 4: about like when she, you know, met the drag queen

646
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 4: that does impressions of her and then she did like

647
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 4: a whole you know, song and dance about it, or

648
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: like she just or or in the fourth season where Betty,

649
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 4: I mean America is finally looking like America basically, and

650
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 4: she looks gorgeous and she has taste now and like

651
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 4: Wilhelmina notices that she has taste and it gives her

652
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 4: an aneurysm and she collapses and goes to the hospital.

653
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 4: It's like so much.

654
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: That's the thing too.

655
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 6: We I think that also, Like the great thing about

656
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 6: Silvio was that, and the writers, like all of the writers,

657
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 6: was that as we like, they really believed in everyone's

658
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 6: individual talent and like and and really like honed in

659
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 6: on what we were all good at and like ran

660
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 6: with that. And I feel like the you know, we'll

661
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 6: talk about it in a bit, but like Hacks is

662
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 6: the same exact way, like Paul Lucia and Jen is

663
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 6: now that we're filming the third season. From season one

664
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 6: to now, they you get in a groove with people

665
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 6: and you like working with them so closely you're like, oh,

666
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 6: why don't they do that? Because there, you know, I

667
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 6: saw a glimpse of that when we were like sitting

668
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 6: around like talking or whatever, you know, And I think

669
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 6: that at first, you know, the Wilhelmina character was very

670
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 6: intentionally cold, distant, not very silly, like not very silly,

671
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 6: extremely hilarious, but like not silly. And then, as you

672
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 6: you know, get to know a person like Vanessa, who

673
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 6: is very whimsical as an individual, You're like, oh, why,

674
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 6: like let's play into that, Like, let's let her do

675
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 6: something silly because she can.

676
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: She's an incredibly gifted comic actress. Just the way she

677
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: uses her body, the way she uses her eyes is incredible.

678
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: A look, I mean a literal look, you know.

679
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 6: And I think that that is like they played to

680
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 6: all of those strengths of her being like this bitch

681
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 6: and this like bitchy devilwares prodra Miranda Priestley type of

682
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 6: like archetype, but like really expanded upon that and let

683
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 6: her have like a lot of fun. And I think

684
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 6: that that is like and they let us all do that.

685
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 6: I mean, Ana Ortiz is like the epitome of like

686
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 6: just comedic genius and that like more is more and

687
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 6: bigger is better and somehow it never Hilda never became

688
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 6: like gimmicky, even though she was doing the absolute most

689
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 6: all the time. And I think that that as like

690
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 6: a comedic actor, to be able to toe that line

691
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 6: between complete absurdity but grounding it in reality is like

692
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 6: the is truly like genius.

693
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: And also having I mean, I was so happy earlier

694
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: when you said that the two of you are still

695
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: so close because.

696
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: I think I have her tattooed on.

697
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: That, because like your relationship on the show was I

698
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: think one of the emotional cores of the show. And

699
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: one of the things that I loved about Ugly Betty

700
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: and I think that endoored is that it's this like

701
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: wacky screwball comedy but it has so much heart without

702
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: becoming cloying much and it felt real and it's so

703
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: nice to know that it was and that that has endured.

704
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, Anna, Like I think that you know, we became

705
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 6: so close so quickly because that was her doing. Like

706
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 6: I think from the first table read, it was like

707
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 6: you're gonna play my son. We need to get to

708
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 6: know each other, and again like that whole feeling like

709
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 6: you have a seat at the table as a kid,

710
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 6: where like you're not being put at the kid's table,

711
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 6: Like I think that that was a little bit it.

712
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 6: There were moments where it was very jarring for me

713
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 6: to be treated like an adult, but I'm so much

714
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 6: better for it because they all treated me like I'm

715
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 6: now treated as an adult working, so like I kind

716
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 6: of got that education really early, and you know, there

717
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 6: were some times where like there was one time that

718
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 6: I forget what it was, but it was like getting late.

719
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 4: It was like later.

720
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 6: No, it was early in like season two or something,

721
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 6: and Anna said something. I forget what it was, but

722
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 6: like it was it was kind of harsh, and I

723
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 6: I like remember, I like started crying and it was

724
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 6: like this one thing where we and we've talked about

725
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 6: it like since, where she was like, I just got

726
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 6: so used to treating you like an adult that like

727
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 6: I forgot that you were a twelve year old kid

728
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 6: and like but and so while like that's just an

729
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 6: example of how jarring it could be as a kid,

730
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 6: Like I'm so much better for it, because, you know,

731
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 6: I feel like as I became a teenager and we

732
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 6: finished the series on and I you know, she made

733
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 6: me a better actor. Like I really wanted to impress

734
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 6: her and I wanted to be a good scene partner

735
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 6: for her, and I think that like I wouldn't have

736
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 6: gotten there if she didn't treat me like she treats

737
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 6: any other actor. You know, Like I wasn't given a

738
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 6: pass because I was a kid, and I think that

739
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 6: that's like that's a good thing.

740
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you you've only seen three episodes of

741
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: Uglybody I have. I have to tell you, you know,

742
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 4: just just because you haven't seen them, that in case

743
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 4: you weren't aware, you Slade like you you you are

744
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 4: just you Slade. You are a scene stealer, girly like

745
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 4: holding your.

746
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: Own against some very impressive and I must I imagine

747
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: intimidating actors.

748
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: Yes, so whether you are like performing hairspray on the

749
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 4: empty a or like you know, like all of the shit,

750
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 4: Like you are just such a scene stealer. You are

751
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 4: so magnetic and so big, and yet it's not like imbalanced, right,

752
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: you were always like matching the energy of everyone around you,

753
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 4: and I think that's the same in hacks, Like damn

754
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: you were just you're so good And I'm honestly I'm

755
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: resisting like fangirling to the to the best of my

756
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 4: ability in in this in this year record. But like

757
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 4: you you have to have to know that, like like

758
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 4: I was justin like I'm not a gay boy anymore,

759
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: but like I was that and like I know, like

760
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: it sucks being I know so many of my friends

761
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: now that you know that are in the public eye,

762
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 4: and you know, being a role model is such like

763
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: a weird, like kind of strenuous thing. Yeah, but like I,

764
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 4: you know, grew up in a family that didn't understand

765
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: queerness and then didn't you know, accept and it's this

766
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: is like a very Latin thing too, righte Like there's

767
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 4: there wasn't a ton of like nuance or acceptance or

768
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: like even conversations about like queerness at all, because you know,

769
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 4: at least with my household, there's a lot obviously like

770
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 4: a lot of machismo, but it was mostly like we

771
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 4: don't talk about it saying and that was something that

772
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 4: was really beautiful about Justin and his character. And you know,

773
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 4: I I feel like I just grew up with Betty

774
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 4: and grew up with Justin and and had and much

775
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 4: like you, I also had a high school romance, like

776
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 4: and I had a high school romance with someone that

777
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 4: I was in a play with, like and our first

778
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: kiss was literally.

779
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: On a stage, so you really were him?

780
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: Yes, our first kiss literally was on a stage. It

781
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 4: was crazy crazy. But I've said this on the pod before.

782
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 4: I work in media because of Ugly Betty. I watched

783
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 4: ugly Betty pre college and I just remember watching America

784
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 4: Ferrera get like treated like shit in like the magazine industry,

785
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 4: and you know.

786
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 5: You said I want to I said that.

787
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: I was like, and I want to go do that.

788
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 4: And what's like absolutely insane is like only I'm only

789
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: realizing this on my most recent rewatch. I did not

790
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: realize this in real time or even with my second rewatch.

791
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 4: Looking back retroactively, I went thrue so many real ass

792
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 4: Teyle Novela asked things that happened in media actually happened

793
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 4: to me, like editor rivalries, like I went to like

794
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 4: a publishing boot camp that like Betty also went to,

795
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 4: like transvengean stories like photoshoot drama, like booking cars from Brooklyn,

796
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 4: Brooklyn to Manhattan to Brooklyn to Manhattan, like you know,

797
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 4: getting too close to your boss, Like oh my god.

798
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: That's like Another crazy thing about the show is like boundaries,

799
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: like a boundary. The fact that Betty, like they doesn't

800
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 4: have boundary, did not exist, they don't have boundaries, has

801
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 4: no boundaries with her work or her family. Is like

802
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 4: the coming out, like the fact that they wanted to

803
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 4: throw justin a coming out party, like it's just like

804
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 4: no fucking boundaries.

805
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 3: Oh.

806
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 4: One of my favorite lines in the show is in

807
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 4: that episode where Ignacio says, the guys don't have a

808
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: favorite color.

809
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: They like them all, they like them all. We know

810
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 2: you're gay, and that's okay.

811
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: I also, though, we also have to talk about the

812
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: way that I mean, we have to talk about the

813
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: fashion of Ugly and the way that it predicted literally

814
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: everything happening in fashion right now. Like I go on

815
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: TikTok and I see like tiny Jewish Girl and all

816
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: these other like maximalist girlies, and like Ugly Betty was

817
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: the pink print period.

818
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: I mean.

819
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: The thing is is like, I mean, Patricia Field girl,

820
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: what hello?

821
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: You know?

822
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: And people mean enough said, people.

823
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 4: Are not giving pat Fields credit in this show, like

824
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 4: they were only thinking about sex and the city and

825
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 4: all this other stuff she was.

826
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 6: Because the thing, well, the Devil Wars product came out

827
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 6: three months before Ugly Betty premiered, so and we I

828
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 6: remember honest saying to me like, if this movie's a success,

829
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 6: our show is going to be a success. Like and well, wow,

830
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 6: you know the rest of it. But pat was is

831
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 6: such a character, I mean, like she is an end

832
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 6: to work with. Her is to be like just I

833
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 6: mean like GOB's act. Like we would go in and

834
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 6: have like I would have like two hour fittings, you

835
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 6: know with her and and she would sit I mean

836
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 6: she would sit on a chair with her dogs with

837
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 6: a cigarette and just like and and she would put

838
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 6: me in like the I mean, you know, things that

839
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 6: would never get approved. Like there was a there was

840
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 6: I remember we had to do like an outside scene

841
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 6: and she had this huge black faux for like pimp

842
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 6: coat to the floor and was like, I think Justin

843
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 6: would wear this.

844
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: And they're like like no, like no, I mean. And

845
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: the thing is too, is that, like I mean I

846
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: was were I.

847
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 6: Think season three I exclusively wore Mark Jacobs, like all

848
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 6: Mark Jacobs and so and and the thing is is

849
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 6: that like Betty too. Like Betty's glasses, for example, they

850
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 6: couldn't find the glasses, like they just they tried on

851
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 6: hundreds of pairs. America tells this story, hundreds of pairs.

852
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 6: They couldn't find the glasses, and Pat took the glasses

853
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 6: off her face put them on America And those are

854
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 6: Betty's glasses.

855
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 2: You're shitting me. God, they were on Pat's face. They

856
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: were Pat's glasses. That's iconic.

857
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 4: That's that goosebumps.

858
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 6: Those were Pat's glasses and she put them on and

859
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 6: they looked in the mirror and they were like, that's it.

860
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: Those are her glasses. That's the thing.

861
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean America was also wearing like I mean,

862
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 6: if you really look, if you like do if there

863
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 6: was like an instagram like every outfit on Sex in

864
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 6: the City or something for Ugly Betty, that was like

865
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 6: breaking down these looks. Like Betty would be wearing upwards

866
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 6: of ten thousand dollars worth of clothing, and she was

867
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 6: wearing like Gucci skirts, and I mean she was wearing

868
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 6: like new fashion. Yeah, yeah, like I mean, and and

869
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 6: the thing is is that Pat is truly the queen

870
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 6: of like the high low, you know, like you would

871
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 6: be wearing a Versace suit but like you know, put

872
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 6: it with like a belt that she found on Canal Street,

873
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 6: you know whatever. And and her entire team like Molly

874
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 6: and Paolo and Jackie and all of them, like they

875
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 6: also spoke like this shorthand with each other too. That

876
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 6: was like so incredible to see, like from even like

877
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 6: are the people that would dress us like Kevin Mark,

878
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 6: I remember like they were all so stoked to like

879
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 6: work with her, and I think that like it wasn't

880
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 6: lost on anyone, like the legendary legend status of miss

881
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 6: pat and like no one does it like her, like no,

882
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 6: and no one has done it since like her. I

883
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 6: think that there have been very valiant attempts to try

884
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 6: and do what Pat Field.

885
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 2: Does and just it just doesn't. It's just not that

886
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: once in a generation kind truly like she was. She

887
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: was the moment.

888
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 6: And and also in speaking to like this kind of

889
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 6: what you were saying Fran about like not of their

890
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 6: not being like one favorite character or like one per

891
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 6: I mean, of course the show was about Betty, but

892
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 6: like no one was also given like preferential treatment based

893
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 6: on like like pat never looked at one character and

894
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 6: was like this is a throwaway, like just put them

895
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 6: in whatever, Like she and the team had true visions

896
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 6: for like what each of these characters individually looked like,

897
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 6: even like Ignacio, you know what I mean, And like

898
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 6: it wasn't it's not always just about like who was

899
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 6: wearing like the newest designer clothing, it's like what makes

900
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 6: sense for this character? And it was very very deliberate

901
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 6: and very intentional. Like I think Hilda was probably one

902
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 6: of my favorite, like aesthetically favorite characters because she was

903
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 6: just so radically Hilda, Like there was no like and

904
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 6: only Anna playing Hilda could wear those clothes in that

905
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 6: way and tell the story that it was telling, do

906
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? Like it was it would

907
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 6: have been if if I wasn't playing Justin. I think

908
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 6: Justin might have looked a little bit different.

909
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: The clothes never wore the character. The characters were the clothes,

910
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: and it was such a like perfect symbiosis.

911
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that that and and I and I

912
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 6: think that that just lends itself to like people that

913
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 6: genuinely care about like their work too, you know what

914
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 6: I mean. Like there, I think that there was just

915
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 6: there's a true passion there and I and it's like

916
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 6: it was so inspiring to like be around too, because

917
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, we would see our like little

918
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 6: outfits and then you see like Vanessa walk out of

919
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 6: her dressing room and like a vintage for sauce suit

920
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 6: and you're just like fuck, like so fierce.

921
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 4: The clothes were part of this like authentication of the

922
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 4: characters really, and with Ignasio and Hilda, specifically, like those

923
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 4: two characters were archetypes in a Latin family that were

924
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 4: so scary close to just people in my life, people

925
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 4: in the lives of other folks that I know that

926
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: I've watched Ugly Betty, like I have an Ignossio in

927
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 4: my life, like I have a Hilda in my life,

928
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 4: and like and something that you were saying, like you know,

929
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 4: they didn't they didn't have to. It wasn't just like

930
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 4: who's wearing the hottest designer clothes. I think that's something

931
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 4: that's so brilliant about like the language of clothes like

932
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: in this show is that, Yeah, it would have been

933
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 4: too easy for you know, if Betty if like Ugly

934
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 4: that they were made today, she'd be like, you know,

935
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 4: stomping out in like a Chipova luena like skirt or whatever,

936
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 4: like you would think, but like what to actually incorporate

937
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 4: thrifting and to know that, like Betty would wear this

938
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 4: butterfly belt right, like.

939
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 6: Well, that's also like telling the story of like telling

940
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 6: the story of how are these people getting And that

941
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 6: was also Pat had to has a distinct talent for that,

942
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 6: Like when she would fight for things for us to wear,

943
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 6: it would be like, well, he can wear the mark

944
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 6: Jacob's thing because he knows fashion and like found it somewhere.

945
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 2: He found it at Beacon's closet.

946
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 6: Absolutely on, like you know, so like she also had

947
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 6: a backstory for how we got into these outfits, like

948
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 6: what what the thought process was when each of these

949
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 6: characters gets up in the morning and gets dressed, which again,

950
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 6: like that's just an amount, that's just an extracurricular work,

951
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 6: you know what I mean.

952
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: And not all costume designers do that, like I've been no,

953
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: most of them do not. Yeah, I've been rewatching Buffy recently,

954
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: and like they're in high school all wearing like Dulchanabana

955
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: and Prada, and I'm like, I don't know that teenagers.

956
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 6: Have access to that, and unless it's like a deliberate choice,

957
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 6: like unless it's just like the euphoria of it all,

958
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 6: yeah know what I mean, Like where it's like okay,

959
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 6: like I get it, like you've you've made this world

960
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 6: like this. But like I think that with with Ugly Betty,

961
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 6: they obviously wanted it to be fantastical in some way,

962
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 6: but not necessarily like aspirational in the same way that

963
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 6: I think like fashion now kind of exists on like it,

964
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 6: like for in Euphoria, for example, it's like the intention

965
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 6: is that, like you want all like a bunch of

966
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 6: gen zs to like want to look like them, whereas

967
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 6: I feel like on Ugly Betty, like that was not

968
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,479
Speaker 6: necessarily the case, Like it wasn't that you want people

969
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 6: to like want to dress like Wilhelmina or or Amanda

970
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 6: or Betty. But if people identified with the characters because

971
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 6: the clothes made so much sense to the character, then

972
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 6: it just tells a different story.

973
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 2: I think it's just a deeper story.

974
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: I do have such a deep spot in my heart

975
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: for Amanda. I know I love no favorites, but like

976
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 1: Amanda was one of the I love Amanda.

977
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 6: I mean we always talk about like if we were

978
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 6: to do a reboot that like Amanda would still be

979
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 6: the receptionist at Mode like that. She's like like we

980
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 6: all like have changed and grown and are doing different things,

981
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 6: and Amanda is like just still the receptionist in the

982
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 6: circle desk as long as Becky Newton can play one

983
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 6: or two additional characters like I'm good like her, I

984
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 6: mean Amanda.

985
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, wish another storyline that could not happen today,

986
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: but it's so funny, so good.

987
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry it was funny. I think it was funny.

988
00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: I don't care.

989
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 5: It was come for me another brilliant comic actress.

990
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 6: Oh my god, it was knowing it was knowingly stupid,

991
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, and like, yeah, the thing like

992
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 6: with like someone like Becky Newton too, is like all

993
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 6: of that the characterization that she did of Amanda, like

994
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 6: physical manifestations of it, like the way she would like

995
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 6: walk down the hallway with the hand on her hip

996
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 6: and like so exaggerated like runway like things like that

997
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 6: where you like, looking back, I'm just like, whoa. These

998
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 6: are such talented actors that had such a point of

999
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 6: view about their character. Like I just I'm like in

1000
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 6: awe of like the just the choices that they made,

1001
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 6: even like and the way that Anna would walk as Hilda,

1002
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 6: like that's not the way that she like it, you

1003
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 6: know what I mean. It's just these very small things

1004
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 6: that I recall that at the time I was just like, oh,

1005
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 6: like whatever, they're doing it. But now having matured and

1006
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 6: like you know, thinking a little bit more critically about

1007
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 6: like my craft and like what it is that I

1008
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 6: do for a living looking back at some of the

1009
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 6: choices that the Betty cast made, small choices like that

1010
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 6: that just have become so synonymous with their characters as well.

1011
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 6: Like you think of Amanda like stomping down the tube,

1012
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 6: you know, in this very dramatic, like ridiculous way, but

1013
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 6: it's because it's like become canon as like that's Amanda.

1014
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 4: Amanda slash Becky, like I think is a great example

1015
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 4: of like just like what you can't write right, you know,

1016
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 4: like like like her the hand of the hip like

1017
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 4: walk swish thing that you're talking about, like immediately in

1018
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 4: my mind, I know what it looks like and and yeah,

1019
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 4: you can't write that, right you the character.

1020
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 2: Well no, I mean you can't.

1021
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 6: And the thing is is that to take something like

1022
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 6: you know, to take a stage direction, especially like Wilhelmina

1023
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 6: like looks Betty up and down or like things like that,

1024
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 6: like you know, sure that can be written into a scrap,

1025
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 6: but like the way that that materializes is up to

1026
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 6: you or you know and so, and no one could

1027
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 6: do it the way that Vanessa Williams did it, Like

1028
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 6: Amanda like walks away like that's very vague, you know,

1029
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 6: she could have but the choices that Becky made are

1030
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 6: like incredible, you know, I mean, and Michael URI's a

1031
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 6: master at that stuff too.

1032
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 4: It's this it feels like it's similar to Hacks two,

1033
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 4: where like you can tell that in the casting they

1034
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 4: were reaching out to people that already had a kind

1035
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 4: of way of inhabiting a set, a way of like

1036
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 4: speaking talking, and that that helped their characters become so

1037
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 4: specific and.

1038
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,240
Speaker 6: Like I think in their world, I think that Hacks

1039
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 6: and Ugly Betty, I think that like I have, I

1040
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 6: immediately felt this kind of electric feeling going onto the

1041
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 6: set of Hacks because it felt so similar to Ugly

1042
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 6: Betty in just kind of the culture of like everyone

1043
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 6: really got along from the jump. Everyone felt like I

1044
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 6: felt like there was a real notion that like everyone

1045
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 6: is here for a reason, no one is like as

1046
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 6: a throwaway character, Like everyone is important, and Paul Lucci

1047
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 6: and Jen like really hammered that home from the beginning.

1048
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 6: But I think that like the ways in which Ugly

1049
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 6: Betty might have told a story like the using clothing

1050
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 6: a lot of the time, and like, you know, I

1051
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 6: feel like Hacks, that story is told a lot in

1052
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 6: like our candor each individual character's candor. I think Paul

1053
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 6: Lucci and Jen and the writers of Hacks are like

1054
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 6: probably the greatest writers I've ever gotten a chance to

1055
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 6: work with. And because it's very rare that you read

1056
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 6: a script and like laugh out loud, but we're constantly

1057
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 6: all like cracking up in these table reads because the

1058
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 6: words themselves are so fucking funny. And so I think

1059
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 6: that it's each character has their own like, yeah, their

1060
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 6: own candor, their own like flavor, you know, And I

1061
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 6: that none of the other characters have, you know, like Ava,

1062
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 6: you know, like Hannah Einbinder's like portrayal of Ava, and

1063
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 6: Meg's Dalters Kayla and Poppies and Poppies, Kiki and My,

1064
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 6: Damien and Carls Marcus are all and and Paul's Jimmy

1065
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 6: like they all somehow meshed together, but like they couldn't

1066
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 6: be more different. And I think that that also it's

1067
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 6: really hard to do, you know, It's really hard to

1068
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 6: kind of like flesh out characters with out actively fleshing

1069
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 6: them out. Like I feel like one of the things

1070
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 6: that was confusing to me when we first started Hacks

1071
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 6: is that like Damien kind of pops in and out,

1072
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 6: you know, and I've said this before, and I like

1073
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 6: that Damien is kind of this enigma. I mean, we

1074
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 6: learn a little bit more about him in season three,

1075
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 6: but like not you know, but like I kind of

1076
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 6: like the idea of him being this person that's just

1077
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 6: like he comes to work, he does his job. He's

1078
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 6: good at it, and he doesn't have time for nonsense,

1079
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 6: you know, and doesn't like comedy. Yeah, And I think

1080
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 6: that like there were like I think at first I

1081
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 6: was searching for like who is he and like whatever,

1082
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 6: and I think that I was just being a little

1083
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 6: bit too.

1084
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: Actory about it.

1085
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 6: Like I was just like it's all like everything that

1086
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 6: I need is right in front of me. Like he's

1087
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 6: Deborah's assistant. He has no time for bullshit. He doesn't

1088
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 6: really like Ava, and you know, Marcus is his boss,

1089
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 6: and he has no time for people like Kayla or something,

1090
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 6: you know, like And I think that that to have

1091
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 6: so little but no so much is a testament to

1092
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 6: like apology and jen for sure, because I think that

1093
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 6: I was just so confused. It's like what is my

1094
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 6: what's my motive? And they were like to do your

1095
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 6: job and I was like that's simple. But that's but

1096
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 6: like that that says so much.

1097
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: You know, it must be a great feeling to have,

1098
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, had this role an ugly Betty and like

1099
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: not been sure if you were going to come back

1100
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: to acting and then come back on a show like

1101
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: this where it seems like there are so many parallels

1102
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: in terms of like the work you're getting to do

1103
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: and the community of people you get to do it with.

1104
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, I mean, someone asked me recently, like

1105
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 6: how do you choose such great projects?

1106
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I did not.

1107
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 6: I don't choose projects like I'm not there, you know,

1108
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 6: like I I mean, after I graduated college, I realized

1109
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 6: that I didn't want to go to graduate school whatever.

1110
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 6: And I was like, I guess I'll move back to

1111
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 6: LA and like try and make it work. And no

1112
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 6: one would hire me. Like I'm just going to be

1113
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 6: like completely honest, Like no one would hire me. I

1114
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 6: could not get a job, Like I wasn't even getting

1115
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 6: like a callback for anything. Like it was really bleak

1116
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 6: for like a few years. And then twenty twenty happened,

1117
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 6: and you know, the pandemic, and I, you know, surely

1118
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 6: wasn't working. And then I was like it was November

1119
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 6: and I was like, if I don't get a job

1120
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 6: by January of twenty twenty one, I'm just going to

1121
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 6: have to like go back to school or like do something,

1122
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 6: because I'm going to like quit.

1123
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 2: And then I got Hacks in November of twenty twenty.

1124
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 4: Wow. That's I mean, and it's so grateful for it,

1125
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 4: like part of what you were saying earlier about just

1126
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 4: like what actors bring to the table, and with Hacks specifically,

1127
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 4: like I do think that you bring a specificity. I

1128
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 4: think every character in Hacks brings a very specific comedic style.

1129
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 4: And I think that someone like Meg is a really

1130
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 4: great example of that. Someone like Poppy is a great

1131
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 4: example of that. It's like irreplicable. I mean, everybody's gonna

1132
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 4: try and copy what like you do or what like

1133
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 4: Meg's aalter does. Everyone's trying to do what Meg is doing.

1134
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: But everyone's trying to do it right now, but no

1135
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: one's Meg.

1136
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that specificity like lent itself to y just

1137
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 4: like the characterization and everything that makes these characters breathe.

1138
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 6: Again, Like that just speaks to Paul and Luccia and

1139
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 6: Jen the and the the like vision that they had

1140
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,959
Speaker 6: for this show. And like again, like, you know, even

1141
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 6: though the show is about Debora Vance and Ava and

1142
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 6: their relationship, you know, everyone in the ensemble is extremely important.

1143
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 6: And I mean I also like, just in terms of

1144
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 6: like what I like to watch, I like to watch

1145
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 6: shows about an ensemble.

1146
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: I like an ensemble cast.

1147
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I love like Avid Elementary right now that

1148
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 6: my friend Tyler's not, like, you know, I love I

1149
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 6: love that kind of quick pace that an ensemble cast

1150
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 6: kind of a Forde You don't spend too much time

1151
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 6: on one person at you know, like you're jumping around,

1152
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 6: You're getting to see different you know, and then that

1153
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 6: opens the door too for like individuals to interact that

1154
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 6: wouldn't necessarily interact, you know, And I think that that's

1155
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 6: it's just fun. Like I think that it just keeps

1156
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 6: us on our toes too, to be like, what is

1157
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 6: Damien doing this episode?

1158
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: Who is he with?

1159
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: I also think a good ensemble means that the world

1160
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: of the show feels real.

1161
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 2: And that's sure.

1162
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: That's the thing I think that really does that really

1163
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: sticks out to me about both of these shows we're

1164
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: talking about, is they because of the specificity of the

1165
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: characters and the way they interact and the fact that

1166
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: none of them are siloed only with certain people, and

1167
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: that they all co mingle. It does feel like a

1168
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: really like fully realized, fleshed out world. And I think

1169
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: that's why people love the show so much.

1170
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 6: And you can see I think that we were talking

1171
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 6: about earlier is like applicable here is that like sometimes

1172
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 6: these people suck, you know, like there's no universally good person.

1173
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 6: You know, there's no universally virtuous person on hacks, you

1174
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 6: know what I mean. We're all kind of fucked up

1175
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 6: a little bit. And I think that that again, that's

1176
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 6: what grounds it in the world, like because they're made

1177
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 6: to be human, like the like the I don't know,

1178
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 6: the peaks and valleys of the debra of a relationship

1179
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 6: for example, that like she loves her even though she's

1180
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 6: getting sued, even that you know, like it like the complications,

1181
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 6: the con like how confusing human relationships actually are and

1182
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 6: how complex human relationships actually are.

1183
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 2: That like you know, and and people fuck up a lot.

1184
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 6: And I think that like so like human like making

1185
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 6: these people human, I think makes the world seem real,

1186
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 6: I guess, and.

1187
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 5: That's a career illness.

1188
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 4: That's something that makes it I think also just fun

1189
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 4: to watch retroactively, like we were you know, joking about

1190
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 4: how it's problematic now or whatever. But like if we

1191
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 4: we say on this show, I mean this is actually

1192
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 4: kind of like the whole conceit of like like a

1193
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 4: virgin in general, is that like we these like things

1194
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 4: that come from the past, like and quote unquote the

1195
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 4: past two thousand and six. You know they uh, it's

1196
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 4: not that like we shouldn't watch them anymore because they're

1197
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 4: problem but it's that we need to revisit them and

1198
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 4: put them in the context of today. Like that's the

1199
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 4: whole thing about It's like if we, as like a

1200
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 4: culture decided to categorically like boycott slash girl cott like

1201
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 4: anything that they caught they caught, Yeah, yeah, anything that

1202
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 4: we if we categorically just decided we're not watching this anymore,

1203
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 4: like canceled, like we can't watch it. It's like that

1204
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 4: is not growth, that's not justice. It's it's about taking it,

1205
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 4: bringing it back and then keeping it in its own context.

1206
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do we what did we learn here? You know,

1207
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 2: what what did we learn here? What can we keep?

1208
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 2: And what do we need to change?

1209
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 6: You know, like what can we bring what can we

1210
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 6: bring into the now and what stays in two thousand

1211
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 6: and eight, you know, and that's part of them, And

1212
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 6: that's what I would like.

1213
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: To bring a couple of Betty's outfits into the now specifically.

1214
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 4: That's right, honestly, Okay, you were saying we need in

1215
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 4: every outfit on Ugly Betty on top Market. I definitely

1216
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 4: looked for that handle. It's like the handle has been

1217
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 4: kin Yeah.

1218
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 2: I don't know who's going to do it. It's surely

1219
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 2: not going to be me.

1220
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if I have this to do

1221
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 4: all of like the wardrobe research, but like it really

1222
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 4: would be so good.

1223
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: I would be fears right I did.

1224
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 4: I recently tweeted about all like a lot of like

1225
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 4: Betty's outfits and just how like Pat Fields like create

1226
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 4: like really was the beginning was like kind of the

1227
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 4: early adopter of like cluttercore, like this kind of Alessandro

1228
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 4: Gucci kind of.

1229
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 6: I mean that's like literally what it was like no

1230
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 6: one was wearing socks and pomps. Yeah, Like no one

1231
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 6: was wearing socks and palms.

1232
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 4: Now every girls are now It's like in every every

1233
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 4: product me collection is socks and kitten heels. Yeah, you know,

1234
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 4: I I want to ask, maybe this is like a

1235
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 4: as we're like winding down, here cameos on ugly Betty

1236
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, my god, just to rattle off a ton

1237
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 4: like Adele Shakira, Victoria Beckham, Kristin Chena with Martha.

1238
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: Stewart, Lindsay Lohan, Lindsay, Okay.

1239
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 4: Look, don't forget about Leelo, Kathina Jimi as like the

1240
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 4: fairy god orthodontist. Like yes, like literally like the cast.

1241
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 5: Of Wicked on Broadway, truly yes.

1242
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 4: And let it be said, tim God like Lucy Lou

1243
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 4: Like it is just that the taste was there and

1244
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 4: it's funny. Like something that I kind of realized as

1245
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 4: I was rewatching now was that there's so many people

1246
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 4: that I just didn't have in appreciation for when I

1247
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 4: watched it as a kid, because I didn't know who

1248
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 4: a lot of these people were. I was in a

1249
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 4: cultural vacuum. It only retroactively. You're like, oh, like the casting,

1250
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 4: there's such a taste level in the casting, whether it's

1251
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 4: someone like Octavia Spencer Monique has like the funniest like bit, Like.

1252
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just crazy like having like someone like

1253
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 6: Octavia Spencer, who I remember working with like she was

1254
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 6: so sweet, so kind, so good, so fucking and like

1255
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 6: and like I just remember I remember when she was

1256
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 6: on the show, everyone being like my god like and

1257
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 6: and also like people had known her because she'd been

1258
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 6: around forever and like but she wasn't.

1259
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 2: An Oscar winner.

1260
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, well no, and and I feel like but I

1261
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 6: just remember the the energy that she brought, like and there,

1262
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 6: like there's a scene where she like is like MASSI

1263
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 6: us reaching out and like I like and I remember

1264
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 6: I remember that because we were shooting another scene that

1265
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 6: and we were there and she like improvised that, you know,

1266
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 6: like she's like she's I mean, I just remember her

1267
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 6: being like so fun to be around and and and

1268
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 6: bringing this energy and like and again like just working

1269
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,919
Speaker 6: with a person where you're like, whoa, they're really good

1270
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 6: and like the choices that they make are really smart.

1271
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know who Patty Lapone was, no idea.

1272
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure.

1273
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 2: And now someday again, the some day came for all

1274
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 2: of these people. Who else was there?

1275
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 6: I mean there were a lot of designers, a lot

1276
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 6: of I remember Victoria back and being very nice. Is

1277
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 6: Isaac mus rocky Isaac ms Rockey Zach Posen was on

1278
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 6: Area Adriana.

1279
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 4: I I feel like I'm honestly okay. The The Octavia

1280
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 4: Spencer's last episode one of my favorites, the last reading,

1281
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 4: like I remember that from like I've I will constantly

1282
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 4: just like say, got a loans to.

1283
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 6: Certain things stick out in my mind of like you know,

1284
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 6: of things that I maybe saw clips of or was

1285
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 6: there for, like little lines, little things that were done.

1286
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 6: I remember like when uh, when Judith Light was in

1287
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 6: when Claire was in jail and and justin I still

1288
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 6: have it. I think it's at my parents house. I

1289
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 6: have the free Claire shirt. Go wow, somewhere It's like,

1290
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 6: what do you.

1291
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 4: Mean somewhere my memory? It should be right there.

1292
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 5: In memory it right now.

1293
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 6: A box of Ugly Betty stuff at my parents' house.

1294
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 6: Like when we when we got canceled, we were all

1295
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 6: so upset that we just like went and stole everything.

1296
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 6: So everything, honey, so everything, the box of Ugly Betty paraphernalia.

1297
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 4: You and I are going to back channel about that.

1298
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be we can buy some of that off

1299
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 4: of you. The Octavia Spencer episode something that I just

1300
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 4: think it's emblematic of like something that's like so juicy

1301
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 4: with every single character came through this show is like

1302
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 4: again and I personally am trying to like mandate Ugly

1303
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 4: Betty Rewatches, like we as a culture need to have

1304
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 4: the ugly Betty Rewatch the way maybe I'll watch it for.

1305
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: The first time.

1306
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 5: Start a podcast, babe, honey, yeah maybe no.

1307
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 4: No, no, no no, don't don't start a podcasts. Don't spart,

1308
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 4: don't do that, like protect yourself.

1309
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 2: I'll come back on here and talk.

1310
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, that's what we want. That's what we want

1311
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 4: part two. But Octavia does, Like I get the reason

1312
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 4: I'm advocating for like rewatches is because there's just so

1313
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 4: much juice that you miss, and like with Octavia specifically,

1314
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,799
Speaker 4: she it's like the most ridiculous character, completely deluded person

1315
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 4: who is like kind of evil, kind of whack like

1316
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 4: kind of unwell. And the way her, yeah, the way her,

1317
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,560
Speaker 4: the way Ignacio you know, brings her back into reality

1318
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 4: and the realization on her face made me physically cry.

1319
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three, I was like so cat debated

1320
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 4: by what she does as an actress. Yeah, and everybody

1321
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 4: on that show just like knew how to do this

1322
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 4: lapstick and they knew how to do the heart well.

1323
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 6: I think that that also, Like I think that all

1324
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 6: of the guest stars also kind of really quickly like

1325
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 6: understood the assignment to like they they got it like

1326
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 6: they I And that I think is pretty rare as well,

1327
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 6: Like the idea of like these people coming and doing

1328
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 6: one episode a little arc of like three, and I

1329
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 6: feel like for the most part, every guest star like

1330
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 6: understood the world that they were walking into, like that

1331
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 6: it had to be a little bit irreverent and ridiculous,

1332
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 6: but grounding it in the world, like they just really

1333
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 6: understood and kind of entered very seamlessly, like Adam Rodriguez

1334
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 6: coming in and playing and playing Hilda's man and like

1335
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 6: and that whole Like I got to work with Adam

1336
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 6: a lot, and like, you know, he's also extremely funny

1337
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 6: and you know, kind of brought this Bobby character like

1338
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 6: to a different place that we weren't really expecting. And

1339
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 6: so I think that, you know, it was it was

1340
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 6: also great to have guest stars that understood the assignment,

1341
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 6: like the actors that came on.

1342
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 4: You know who else was that was Kristin Johnson, Oh my.

1343
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 6: God, yeah, well, I mean Kristin Johnson and anything is

1344
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 6: just like slightly Kristin Johnson, which I love, right, you

1345
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 6: know what I mean. It's kind of like she's got

1346
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 6: like the Jennifer Coolidge kind of thing going. It's kind

1347
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 6: of had that.

1348
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 2: Like where it's like she's playing a character, but like

1349
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 2: there's still something just her, you know what I mean.

1350
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 4: New York isn't cool anymore.

1351
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, New York's not cool anymore. So bored I could die.

1352
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 4: Did you have a favorite guest star that you worked

1353
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 4: with or cameo appearance that that.

1354
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 2: I mean?

1355
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 6: Adam Rodriguez was really really fun. I mean because we

1356
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 6: got like he came in again, like kind of towards

1357
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 6: the end of our run. And it was also in

1358
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 6: the it was in the era of like, you know,

1359
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 6: Justin's kind of coming out thing, and I just thought

1360
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 6: that the Bobby character, like I just thought was so funny,

1361
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 6: like the the when he comes in and they're decorating

1362
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 6: Betty's apartment for the coming out party, and he's like,

1363
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 6: this doesn't seem right, Like there's some I can't put

1364
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 6: my finger on it, but this doesn't seem right. And

1365
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 6: then Michael like Mark comes In is like take this down,

1366
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 6: and he's like see. And I thought that that was

1367
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 6: also a really again like the subtext of something funny

1368
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 6: that is also making a political statement of like this

1369
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 6: machismo Latin got coming in and being extremely like accepting

1370
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 6: and just trying to like become friends with Justin and

1371
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 6: trying to understand him and trying to like not even

1372
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 6: understand him.

1373
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 2: I think he did understand him.

1374
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 6: I think it was more like, hey, I'm an ally

1375
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 6: like I'm trying, I'm trying to like support you. And

1376
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 6: I think that that also again is like a political

1377
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,480
Speaker 6: statement and of itself. I think that Justin being conditioned

1378
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 6: to like kind of have his guard up, as many

1379
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 6: queer people do, especially you know around on like Sis

1380
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 6: had men right of like kind of having to have

1381
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 6: your guard up at all times because you know, rightfully so,

1382
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 6: and then having someone that like looks like Adam Rondriguez

1383
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 6: with a name like Bobby from New York City that

1384
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 6: is just like I won't tell your mom, but like

1385
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 6: you got to do something about that, like you have

1386
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 6: to like let your family know like where you're at.

1387
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 6: Like I just thought that was a really beautiful story

1388
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,879
Speaker 6: and I thought that it was like like a political statement,

1389
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,759
Speaker 6: but like done in such a funny way, like Bobby

1390
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 6: is silly, and.

1391
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: It was a complicated story. We're here, we're queer, we suck. Yeah,

1392
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: that's powerful.

1393
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 4: Listen a very relevant ending question. I don't know if

1394
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 4: there's tea here. I do feel we were rubbed of

1395
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 4: a Gaga cameo, and I feel like I was like

1396
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 4: waiting for her to be in there. She's I just

1397
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 4: finished season I.

1398
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 5: Don't think that.

1399
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,760
Speaker 1: I don't think the timing was quite right, because it

1400
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: was it would have been right at the beginning.

1401
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 6: Of her romance was out in season three, right, I mean,

1402
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 6: I feel like that would have been the time to

1403
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 6: get her.

1404
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 2: Was before she was on Gossip Girl. Well, well yeah

1405
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: she was in season four.

1406
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 4: There's this whole arc where Justin is like going to

1407
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 4: be on set for like the Gaga photo shoot or whatever,

1408
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 4: and I was like, is Gaga coming?

1409
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 6: I think they wanted to get her, and I think

1410
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 6: that it was just, you know, she was just probably

1411
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 6: a scheduling thing or whatever.

1412
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure that Lady Gaga

1413
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 2: watched Ugly Betty Girl.

1414
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, Gaga, Yeah, she she'll be in the reboot.

1415
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 2: I'm sure she well.

1416
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: When we finally have her on the show, we will

1417
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: make her answer for that, along with all.

1418
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 5: Of her other woor crimes.

1419
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 1: Slide into our DMS at Like a Virgin four twenty

1420
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: sixty nine and tell us if you're starting an ugly

1421
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: Betty rewatch. Are you a Betty? Are you a Wilhelmina?

1422
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 1: Are you an Amanda? And make sure to become a

1423
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: patroon at patreon dot com. Slash like a Virgin and

1424
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: get some exclusive bonus content from our conversation with Martina

1425
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: Della Pato. And next week we will be back with

1426
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: an episode all about Anna Wintour and then met Gala

1427
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 1: with mikel.

1428
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 3: Street. So that's very exciting.

1429
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 1: Make sure to follow us on Instagram Like a Virgin

1430
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 1: for twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host rose Dam.

1431
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 1: You can find me anywhere online at rose Dam you and.

1432
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 4: I'm brand you can find me at France squishkowhere on

1433
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 4: the Internet.

1434
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: Like a VIRGINI is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is

1435
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,839
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Guitour.

1436
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: Until next week, See you later, Virgin