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Can a dress be 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.600 black and blue and white and gold? 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.760 In today's podcast, we talk about the centuries old scientific 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:24.880 debate about light. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.320 Is light a particle or a wave? 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:50.880 Or is it both? Hello, I'm Jorge and I'm Daniel. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.280 Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.680 In which we try to explain the whole universe and 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.799 everything in it, including light. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.720 Now, I'm a tunis I draw something called PhD comics. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.160 And I'm a particle physicist. During the day, I smash 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.520 particles together at the Large Hadron Collider. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.320 Yeah. Well, today on the program, we're going to talk 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:16.000 about the nature of light. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.959 That's right. People have been arguing for centuries. What is light? 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.840 Is it made out of particles? Is it made out 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.240 of waves? Something else? Is it tiny little puppies screaming 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.080 through space? People have gone back and forth on the issue, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.720 and today even the topic is not yet totally settled. 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:33.720 So we're going to be taking you through that history 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:34.720 and breaking it down. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.800 It's one of the most mind blowing questions in human 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.080 scientific history. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.320 That's right, what is light made out of? So as usual, 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:43.960 before we dig into it, we went out and we 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.760 asked people on the street, what do you think light 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.480 is made out of? What do people know about light? 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.600 Is light a particle or is it a wave. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.480 Here's what people had to say. Do you think light 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:58.960 is made out of particles or waves or both or neither? Photos? Yeah, photons? Yeah, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.480 so you think light's a particle. I think it's waves, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.400 youth waves. Yeah, cool, it's. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.440 Both, I think because it like moves like a wave, 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.320 but it also has properties of a particle and there's 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:18.880 nothing saying it can't people, okay, light, I think they're 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.000 made of wavelength Yeah all right. 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.040 Well it's interesting because I think all of the answers 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:27.080 are right. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.159 Or none of them are rest or both. 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:33.440 Yeah. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.800 Well, it seems like a lot of people reflected the 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.960 fact that there is a controversy like that. You know, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.119 it's not really well described, but either those some people 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.000 went all in, you know, like it's a photon or 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.160 it's a wave, or it's a wave. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.200 Length right, Yeah, that was my favorite one. 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.000 I want to be a wavelength, Like I've heard of 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.120 this word. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.360 It sounds really cool and scientific. I'm just going to 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:54.000 throw it out there. 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.440 That's right. Yeah, maybe I get some points. We award 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.280 no points people, no points, that's right. There's no price. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.960 Your price is you get to be on our podcast, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.520 and maybe we even make fun of you. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.880 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I guess what you mean is 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.840 nobody sort of fell for the trap, right, Like nobody said, oh, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:12.839 of course it's a particle, or nobody said, oh of 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.440 course it's a wave. Most people sort of knew that 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.480 there's some sort of duality there, something weird going on. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.320 That's right, That science is having some trouble, some difficulty 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.680 coming up with a way to describe what light is. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.040 And that might seem surprising you because light is everywhere, right, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.280 and it runs the universe. It's streaming through the Solar 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.760 system from the Sun, illuminating our lives, empowering everything on Earth. 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.840 So you think this would be sort of a high 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.640 priority topic to figure out, like what is this stuff? 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:40.560 What is it made out of? 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:41.000 Yeah? 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.080 I mean, like, what are we paying you for, Daniel, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.039 if not to figure these types of questions out. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.640 I was just about to figure out what light was 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.600 when you called and said it's time to do this podcast. 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:55.040 Sorry, science was totally destroy your train of thought. 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.320 There, that's right. Reflect on that for a minute or again. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.839 But no, Yeah, I'm a California taxpayer. Part of my 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.360 salary goes to paying your salary, Like you know, one 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:07.320 million of a percent. 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.560 That's true. Yes, so you're saying you did pay taxes 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.000 last year. Again, that's another topic. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:20.920 On air Daniel anyway, So that's an interesting question, like 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.279 is light a waver or particle? And it's weird that 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.080 we don't know, But maybe let's break it down a 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.000 little bit. What is it? Like, what are we actually 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.279 talking about when we say that light could be a 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.600 particle or light could be a wave, like you know, 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.400 most people probably think of light as just like just 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:37.360 like brightness, right. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:41.520 Yeah. The thing to understand here is that we try 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.280 to describe light in terms of things we know, and 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.240 that's what science is. Right. You see something weird and new, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.400 and you wonder, oh, is it like this other thing 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.600 I know? So we've observed different kinds of phenomena in 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.800 the world, like you see waves, right, you go to 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.039 the beach, you see waves and water. You drop a 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.320 rock in a small puddle, you see waves. We know 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.280 what waves are, and we see different phenomena. We try 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.640 to categorize them in terms of things we know, right. So, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.200 like when people were studying sound, they discovered, oh, sound 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.920 is actually a wave. You know, it's a compression wave 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.560 in the air and that's cool because he says, oh, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.400 I already know how the math for waves works, right, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.000 I've seen waves in water. I've seen waves and other stuff. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.680 You can describe it with like equations, right, yeah, wavy equations. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:29.320 That's right, very solid, unwavy physics to describe waves. And 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.880 there's a lot of science that's gone into understanding waves. 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.280 So if you can cram it into that box and say, oh, 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.880 this is just another example of something we already know, 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.880 then you're taking a huge leap forward. Right. So that's 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.720 something people try to do is say like, look, can 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.600 we describe this in terms of other things we know? 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.440 So we need like, you know, we know about light, 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.640 but we want to know how it behaves and what 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:50.280 makes it work. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.400 Yeah, and just on a more general level, you try 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.640 to see something new, you try to describe in terms 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.840 of things you know, Like, say you taste a new 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:58.640 kind of fruit and you be like, oh, it's a 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.360 little bit like a cherry and a little bit like 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:01.960 an apple, and a little bit like you know, it's 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.239 got a hint of smokiness to it or whatever. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:05.560 You know, You're like, it's a chapel. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.520 It's a chapel. How has nobody ever invented that the 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.119 cherry apple chapel. Oh my gosh, somebody, if our lawyer 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.960 is listening, get on that right away. Copyright that idea. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.520 I'll reserve ww dot chapel dot com. Up. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:20.480 That's right. So that's the basic idea is we have 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.800 these things we've seen. You see something new, you don't 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.720 want to create a whole new category. You want to 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.680 fit into one of the existing categories. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.800 So we sort of knew about light. It came from 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.840 the sun. It you know, if you light a fire, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.560 it spreads down into a room. And so we're like, 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:38.320 what's going on? Like what what best describes how this 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.640 light you know, comes from a source and bounces off 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:42.520 the walls and stuff. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.320 Exactly exactly, that's the question. And so we'd seen things 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.959 like waves. So what do we mean when we say 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.880 a wave, Like, how could a light be a wave? Well? 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:51.520 How can anything be a wave? 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.440 Yeah? How can anything be a wave? A wave is 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.120 a funny thing because it's not a thing itself. It's 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.319 a property of some medium, Like it's. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.920 The take a rip on something. 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.400 Yeah, that's right, Like if you do the wave at 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.080 a baseball game, you know, there's nothing to the wave itself. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.040 It's just a bunch of people moving up and down 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.560 and waving their hands, right. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.160 Or like a sound wave is just like air molecules 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.000 kind of bumping forward. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.160 That's right, yeah, exactly. Or a wave in the ocean 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.920 is just it's an arrangement of the water, right, It's 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.440 a way the water gets compressed and then stretched out 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.920 and compressed and then gets stretched out. So that's an 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.640 important thing about a wave is that it moves in 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.320 this way through a medium. 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.920 M Okay, so that's a wave. It's like a propagation, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.520 it's like a ripple through something. But then so then 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.840 what would you call a particle? A particle is different 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:38.160 than that. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.760 A particle is different than that, and it's a totally 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.320 different kind of thing, you know, And to be a 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.719 particle physicist, it's kind of odd. But the concept of 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.280 a particle is not that really well defined, you know. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:50.480 But when I think of a particle, I think of 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.640 taking matter and breaking it down to its smallest pieces. 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.920 Like if something's made out of particles, it means that 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.880 at its smallest level, it's made out of these little 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.640 bits that can't be opt into smaller bits, and that 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:07.480 they're localized. They're like small and contained. Right. If you 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.440 discover that something is made of particles, you expect it 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.679 to be like mostly empty space, but with these little 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:14.960 dots of matter. 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:16.760 Like you would take something and then you smash it 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.880 to bit and just keep smashing, and at some point 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.440 you're going to get to these little like baby balls 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.480 or like little tiny pellets that you can't break down anymore. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.880 That's right. Yeah, It's like seeing a picture on your 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.680 computer screen and discovering it's made out of pixels, right, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.280 and that those pixels are the basic elements and they 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.600 come together to make the whole picture. So figuring out 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.559 that something is made of particles means that there's made 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.120 of these these little bits that are not connected to 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.760 each other, right, they're separated. So a wave and a 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.480 particle in nature are totally different kinds of things. Right Now, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.000 water of course is made of particles, but can have 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:54.360 waves in it, right. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.920 But I think maybe what's important here is that, you know, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.240 particles we tend to think of as little tiny it's 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.360 they can bounce around, right and like go in a 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.000 street line and then hit something else and then bounce back, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.800 or you know, kind of fly through space, right, in 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.680 a discrete little package exactly. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.800 That's exactly the right way to say. It's a discrete 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.360 little package. Right. So things that are made of particles 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.400 we think of as being discrete little bits, and they 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.720 they're broken up into these little pieces, and you're right, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.200 they move in straight lines. Right, Like you throw a rock, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.439 you roll a smooth ball across the surface, you expect 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:31.840 it to move in a straight line. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.040 So that's kind of what we mean by a wave 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.439 and a particle, that's right. Yeah, And so the question 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.880 is like, is light a ripple on a medium? Is 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.120 that what light is? Or is it like actual little 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:43.600 things and move around in space? 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:44.079 Right? 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.800 Does it have its own stuff to it? Right? Or 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.760 is it just a way something else moves right? That's 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:51.760 sort of another way to phrase the question. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.080 Right, And those are two pretty different pictures of reality, right, Yeah, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.720 light could be little pellets flying around, or it could 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.480 be some sort of ripple on a medium. To us, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.800 in our intuitive sense, it couldn't be anywhere different, right. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.280 That's right. Yeah. It's like you can't be a Democrat 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.480 and a Republican, you know, just you have to pick one, 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.640 you know, Yeah, if you vote it you can be 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.960 or you could be neither. I suppose you shouldn't be 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.920 both though, Yeah, that would be a violation of some 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:24.679 election law not recommended to violate elections, right, that's right. Yeah, So, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.240 speaking of political shouting matches, this one, this historical scientific 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.760 shouting match, began all the way back with the Greeks, right, Democratus, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.600 he's the guy sort of the first atomist. He's the 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.400 first person to look at the world and to say, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.600 you know, maybe everything's made out of tiny little bits, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.680 not just light, but also matter. And that was sort 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.800 of the birth of that idea that maybe everything around 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.199 us that seems macroscopic is made out of tiny little things, 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.400 smaller than we can see. And you know, as usual, 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.120 when somebody comes up with a good idea, they overextended. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.240 They're like, well, maybe if rocks are made out of stuff, 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.880 then water is also made out of particles, and maybe 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.679 even light is made out of particles. You know, at 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.439 the time, seemed like a totally a crazy reach. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.679 And that makes sense, right, because light seems to go 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.160 in a straight line, it seems to bounce off of things, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.600 So why couldn't light just be like little tiny little 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.640 pellets that bounce around the room and then eventually hit 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.400 your eye and then that's how you see something. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.720 Yeah, it certainly seems to have some of those particle 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.959 like properties, right, it moves in straight lines, it certainly 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.640 would be going really really fast. At the time, people 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.560 thought that light traveled instantly. Right. They thought that light 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.160 instantaneously went from like the sun to the earth, or 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.920 or if you started a fire, that the light would 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.640 immediately illuminate the room. Now, we of course know that 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.680 it just happens super duper crazy fast, too fast for 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.200 those folks to ever measure, so it's almost like it's instantaneous. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.840 But they thought that these things just moved instantly through 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.200 space and filled up the room. Okay, and I want 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.160 to talk a little bit more about that, but first 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:59.440 a quick break with big wireless providers. What you see 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.079 is no for what you get. 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So the next time 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.760 you grab a slice of pizza or lick an ice 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.480 cream cone, know that dairy farmers and processors around the 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.959 country are using the latest practices and innovations to provide 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.760 the nutrient dense dairy products we love with less of 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.879 an impact. Visit us dairy dot com slash sustainability to 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:10.480 learn more. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.040 So initially we thought light was or the Greeks thought 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.640 that light was a. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.760 Particle, right, And I think we have to qualify that 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.520 because it makes the Greeks sound really smart. Just come 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.560 up with this idea of atoms and all that stuff, and. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.840 You say this before you're really down on the Greeks. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.760 Well, I think people give the Greeks too much credit 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.200 for that, because, as I've probably said to you before, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.600 the Greeks had lots and lots of ideas. You know, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.439 they had like thousands of these ideas about how the 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.439 way the world works. And yeah, one of them was 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.840 close to true. But like, if we're going to do 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.320 some accounting, let's also remember the nine hundred and ninety 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.200 nine ones that were totally off base, you know, and 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:54.680 give them credit for those. 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.240 Yeah, find that Greek we thought life was just little 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.159 puppies and be like seeing you guys also thought there 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.800 were puppies. You can't be that smart, that's right. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.920 But he's a cool idea, So give him credit for 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:07.720 having that idea. I don't know what they were smoking 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:09.399 when they came up with it, but I'd like to 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.399 figure out where to find some. And then it was 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.960 thousands of years later before people had another idea. It 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.280 was a Descartes, the guy who's famous for you know, 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.520 I think therefore I am he thought about He was 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.280 one of the earliest scientists, not just philosopher, but a scientist, 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.399 back in the day when you know, science really was 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.800 part of philosophy, and he thought that light was waves. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:30.600 What made him think it was waves? 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.359 You know, I don't think he had much justification for it. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.000 This is back in the early days when science wasn't 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.040 really an empirical study where you didn't like go out 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.800 and do experiments to test your hypothesis. It just made 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.360 more sense to him for light to be like these 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.480 wave like disturbances. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.399 Right, which kind of makes sense, right, Like if you 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.359 have a speaker in a room emitting sound waves, it's 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.480 not that different from like a light bulb in the 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.280 middle of the room emitting light all around it. Right. 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.840 Yeah. And there's some things that light does that don't 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.040 really that don't really seem consistent with particles, you know, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.720 like the way light bends through a lens, right, it's 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.600 called we call in science, we call that refraction. You know, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.919 when light changes from going through air to glass, it 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.000 bends in this weird way. That's something that's very common 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:16.920 for waves, right. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:22.119 And a particle wouldn't bend inside of a lens. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.320 No, No, a particle that's definitely a wave like behavior, yeah, oh, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.600 not particle like behavior. And so Descartes saw that and 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.520 he's like, oh, you know, we have optics, we have 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.840 these lenses. So maybe light is a wave. But if 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:35.960 light is a wave, then it opens this other question. 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:37.600 What's doing the waving? 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:38.160 Right? 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.320 I mean with sound, you know it's the air and 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.120 the water waves. Obviously it's the water. But if light 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:44.760 is a wave, then what is waving? 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.040 Meaning? Like, if light is a ripple, what is it. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.600 A ripple of that's right? Yeah, what's doing the rippling? Right? 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:52.880 If it's a wave, it has to be a wave 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:54.960 in something, because a wave is just a description of 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.640 some other form of matter rippling, right. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.040 It couldn't just be like stuff that we can't see. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.280 Yeah, and so you have to invent some stuff that 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.200 we can't see. Right. So to explain light being a wave, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.600 you have to invent this universe filled with stuff. Or 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.280 there has to be that stuff between us and the 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.600 sun for example, right, which is a huge amount of 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.959 this new stuff you're inventing. And if you're looking at 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.960 the stars, there has to be that stuff between you 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.720 and the stars. Right. So now we're talking about billions 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.679 of miles of this new stuff, and Descartes, you know, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:26.760 didn't know. So he just gave it a name. He's 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:28.320 called I don't even know how to pronounce it, but 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.080 he called it plenum. And he thought, well, there must 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.919 be if light is a wave, there must be some 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.199 stuff that's doing the waving, and we'll just give it 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.160 a name, and maybe we'll be right, and then we'll 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:37.920 be famous forever. 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.119 Isn't it is that different than the ether? 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.240 It's similar in concept, right, it's a different idea, but 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.480 it's similar in concept that like, if light is a wave, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.960 it must be waving through something, and we don't know 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.360 what it is. We just invent something to and give 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.879 it a name as a placeholder, so when later people 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.600 do the hard work of actually discovering it, we'll still 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:56.159 get credit. 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.800 Okay, So it was a particle. Light was a particle, 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:00.800 then was a wave, and then what happened. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.720 Well, then Newton came along, right, And Newton's a really 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.240 smart guy, and everybody knows that he's famous for thinking 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.520 about gravity, but he also liked to think about optics 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.760 and lenses. And he thought for sure that light was 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.240 a particle because he saw it moving in straight lines, 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:18.000 and he saw distinct shadows. But you know, Newton also 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.000 did a lot of experiments with optics. He studied prisms, 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.159 and he saw light bending, and he saw light splitting 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.920 into colors. And you can't explain that if light is 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.600 a particle, but he tried. You know, he's like, well, 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.040 maybe when a particle hits the glass, it gets some 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.520 sort of weird sideways force and that makes it bend. 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.159 But you know, that's not really an explanation. That's just 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.560 sort of like a I don't really understand it. But 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.280 maybe it's something like this. 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.080 Like, if light is a particle, why does it split 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:47.480 into the rainbow kind of thing? 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.720 Yeah, exactly. And you know this is again back in 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.720 the day when empirical studies of science weren't the main 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.680 way to answer questions. It was mostly thinking in your 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.320 head about things that made sense to you, and then 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:00.879 they would argue about them. 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:01.120 Right. 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.159 A lot of the way scientific disputes used to be 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.719 resolved was people would argue about it and then say, well, 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.320 that makes no sense, so it can't be true. And 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.760 we know now, of course, that the universe doesn't always 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.880 make sense to us. What's real isn't necessarily the things 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.879 that we would have accepted as true or accepted as 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.399 a reasonable way to describe the universe. But you know, 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:22.480 if that's the way nature works, that's the way nature works, 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.959 you have to accept it. But that's the sort of 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:28.600 primacy of experimental results came later on. So back in 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.320 the day, people just sort of used to argue for 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:32.360 an explanation that made sense to them. 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:34.359 Right, Well, it was kind of hard for them to 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:36.159 build a particle collider, right. 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:41.520 That's right, Yeah, exactly, they didn't have the massive government 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.560 funding to do that. These were men of leisure studying 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:45.240 science and the spare time. 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.520 In fact, it was called like natural philosophy, right, It 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:50.680 wasn't called science at the time, was it. 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.959 Yeah, that's right exactly. All science grew out of philosophy. 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.600 It was called these folks were natural philosophers. But you know, 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.439 later on then people started doing experiments. And there are 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.560 a bunch of French guys who did a bunch of 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.120 experiments and some of some English folks, and they were 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.000 studying how light behaved and refraction and reflection. And they 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:12.720 saw it doing these things and they thought, there's no 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.879 way Newton's right, this has to be a wave. You know, 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:21.399 they saw things like interference patterns. Right. Interference patterns is 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:24.320 when you have two waves and sometimes one is rippling 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.480 up at the same time another one is rippling down. Right. 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:30.960 So imagine, for example, you have a bathtub of water 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.200 in front of you, and you slap it with two 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.920 hands at once, right, each one is going to send 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.119 waves out. And then when those end, those waves are 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.160 either rippling up or rippling down. And when they reach 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.200 each other, if they're both rippling up at the same time, 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:48.560 then they constructively interfere to get a double wave. If 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:51.320 they're both rippling down at the same time, they constructively 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.359 interfere to get a double down wave. If one is 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.360 rippling up and the other's rippling down, then then they 0:24:57.400 --> 0:24:58.360 cancel each other. 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:01.080 Out right, And so you would see no light. 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.800 Yeah, exactly, And so you can do this kind of stuff. 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.800 You know, in your bathtub, you can see interference patterns. 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:10.720 And what happens if you have two sources like that, 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:12.800 like one from each of your hands, is you get 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.320 some areas where the waves are high, in some areas 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:17.359 where the waves are low, in some areas where there 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:19.000 are no waves. And so as you say, if you 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:21.480 do it with light then you see these patterns of 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:23.560 dark and light, these stripes. 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:25.639 And you couldn't do that with particles, right, Like a 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:27.640 particle wouldn't cancel another particle. 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.639 Yeah, there's no way to explain that with particles. People thought, well, look, 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:33.800 this is something that waves do, and light is doing it, 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:35.720 and there's no way to explain it with particles, So 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:39.040 light must be a wave. Right. In fact, there's even 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.080 famous cases where they said, well, you know, if light 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.479 is a wave, then you know, if you set up 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.760 this various experiment, you would get this crazy effect and 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:50.600 so that's absurd and so it definitely can't be true. 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:52.760 And then they went and did the experiment and saw 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.760 the crazy wave effect and they're like, oh, that is true. 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.960 You know, this is a I love that because it's 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:03.040 the primacy of experimentalism, right, Like, go and check the data, 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:05.119 Go and actually get some data and see what the 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:06.119 universe tells you. 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:09.480 Yeah, Like you're like, a doughnut can't possibly be a 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:13.639 croissant at the same time, but it turns out that 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:15.680 you can bake something called a cronat. 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.040 Yeah, exactly. I think that's a big debate in pastry 0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:20.720 science still though, Yeah, is it from a donut, like 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:22.720 that's like a croissant, or is it a croissant that's 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:23.240 like a donut. 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:25.760 Yeah, I'm getting my degree in particle baking. 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:31.320 Yeah, the large pastry Collider. I'm looking forward to the 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:32.520 construction of that project. 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:37.199 But that's kind of what you mean. It's like you 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.679 people don't think it's possible until they actually see it. 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.000 And waves and light has been doing this to people 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:45.600 for hundreds of years, or they're like, they can't possibly 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:47.639 be doing this, or they can't it can't possibly be 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.119 doing that, but it just keeps doing all these weird things. 0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.840 Yeah, exactly. And that was the experiment it's called the 0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:57.119 double slit experiment, the one that really convinced people that 0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:00.800 light is a wave because they've shown a strong light 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:03.120 and they had just two little narrow slits which act 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:05.680 like as sources like slapping your hands in the bath 0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:08.479 to water, and then on a screen behind it, they 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.240 saw these interference patterns, right, is that you could definitely 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:13.960 only get if light was a wave. And so that 0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:17.280 was the early eighteen hundreds and everybody was absolutely certain 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:20.480 light was totally a wave. The question was settled. We 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.280 knew forever light was a wave. And we still didn't 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:25.120 know what was it waving through. 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.640 But how did they explain all those particle experiments? 0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:31.840 Well, this was before we even really knew about particles, right, 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.480 No real particles had been discovered at this point. With 0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:37.960 this idea from the Greeks of thousands of years ago 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.800 that maybe things were made out of particles, and chemistry 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.160 was getting warmed up, and you know, people are starting 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:45.919 to think about atoms and molecules and stuff, but they 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.479 hadn't really seen any actual particles yet. And it was 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:53.439 decades later when the electron was discovered that people started 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.560 to think about the particle model again. But you know, 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.440 the wave theory was definitely ascended, right. Everybody definitely looked 0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:00.879 at these double slit experiments and saw light doing all 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:03.520 this wavy stuff, and they were sure that light was 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:03.920 a wave. 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:07.080 Now did people extend that to other things, Like, you know, 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.600 they thought, oh, light is this weird wavy thing. But 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.639 surely us, we're made out of little tiny atoms. 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.600 Yeah, that's a good question. I wonder if people thought, hm, 0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:18.760 light's a wave, maybe we're a wave too, right, yeah? 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:20.960 Or like everything's just like a wave. 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:24.840 Yeah, probably not, because nobody thought that light had any 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.000 mass to it, right, whereas we definitely know that we 0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:31.199 have mass, right, we feel pretty heavy sometimes after a 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.600 big meal. Even before the discovery particles, though, there was 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.800 a huge advance in the theory of light which was 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.360 a Scottish guy named Maxwell. He was working on electricity 0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.480 and magnetism, and he put together all these equations to 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:49.160 describe electricity magnetism, and he just sort of wrote them 0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:51.400 down in a new way. This is like the way 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.440 you could do theoretical physics back in the days. You 0:28:53.520 --> 0:28:55.560 just take existing ideas and you find a new way 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.560 to write them down. But he wrote them down in 0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:01.840 this way that looked like the mathematics of a wave. 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:04.800 We have this equation. It's called a wave equation, and 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:07.200 it describes how waves move through a. 0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:10.280 Medium, meaning like it could be described by equations that 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.240 look like sine waves and cosine waves. Right, I mean, 0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:17.280 just in case anyone remembers high school math, that's kind 0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:19.480 of what we mean by mathematical equations. So you can 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:22.720 describe it as a sine wave or as cosine wave, right. 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:25.320 That's right. Yeah, The solution to these equations are sine 0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:28.520 waves and cosine waves. These are differential equations to describe 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.800 how things move through the medium. And if things follow 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:35.560 these equations, then they're waves, right, okay. And so he 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:39.640 looked at the equations for electricity and for magnetism and 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:41.840 he rewrote them and he realized, you can rewrite them 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:45.120 in a way that looks just like the wave equation. Right, 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:49.120 So he said, oh, electricity magnetism has the same equation 0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:53.120 as waves moving through water or waves moving through air. 0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:56.080 And in fact, if you write it in terms of 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.920 this wave equation, you can pull out what the speed 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.920 of those waves must be. And the speed that he 0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:04.280 pulled out from this from these equations was the speed 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.320 of light. So he had this moment of epiphany. He 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:09.840 must have been like in his office late one night, 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:14.120 rearranged these equations and realized, oh, my gosh, light is 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:17.360 a wave, and it's a wave of electromagnetism. 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:19.840 So like a light bulb turned on on top of 0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:21.720 his head, emitting waves. 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:24.400 Exactly the first appropriate light bulb ever. 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:31.600 Yeah, so then that seems pretty definitive. The double slit 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:36.000 experiment shows that light interferes with itself. And also this 0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:41.040 guy figured out that it's mathematically describable by sine ways. 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:42.320 And cosine waves right. 0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:46.680 Right right, That light is waves of electromagnetism, Yeah, exactly. 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:49.520 So then it all seems really nice and tidy. But 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:53.000 then the particle revolution comes, right. People discover the electron, 0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:57.280 people discover the neutron, people discovering all these particles. But 0:30:57.320 --> 0:30:59.440 then they were doing experiments where they were shining light 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:03.920 onto materials and trying to get it to kick off electrons. 0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:06.160 So you shine a really bright light at something and 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:08.240 you hope that some of the electrons in the material 0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:11.720 absorb that light and get enough energy to be free 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.360 right to run away, and so this is called the 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.000 photoelectric effect. You shine light at something and you measure 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.840 the electrons that come off. So what they saw in 0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:23.160 this experiment only made sense if the energy of the 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:26.600 light comes in little packets rather than a continuous stream 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.560 like waves. So they turned up the intensity of the 0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:32.360 light and they made it brighter, but that didn't increase 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:34.960 the energy of the electrons that were coming off, which 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:37.920 doesn't make sense if it's a wave. It only makes 0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:40.960 sense if photons come in little packets, so that increasing 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:44.840 the intensity of the light means more photons, but it 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.360 doesn't give more energy to any one. Electron because each 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:52.960 electron can only absorb one photon. And nobody understood this 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:55.000 at all. This made no sense to anybody. It was 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:57.760 a huge puzzle. We totally believe that it acted like 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.120 a wave. We had the double slit experiment told it 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.640 was a wave. Maxwell's equations told us it was wave. 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:06.000 But then we had the photoelectric effect, which didn't quite 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.440 make sense to anybody. Okay, and then Einstein said, well, 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:13.160 what if light comes in these little packets like you 0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:16.080 were saying before, What if light is not this continuous 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:18.520 stream of energy like a wave is right, a wave 0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:20.680 is continuous stream of energy. What if it comes in 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:25.600 these little bits? And that explained everything if you thought 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:27.719 that light was came in these little packets, It explained 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:30.920 the photo electric effect, explained these all these other mysteries 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.840 in physics, and that was the birth of quantum mechanics. 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:36.680 Did he think that maybe it was little packets of waves? 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:39.360 Do you know what I mean? Like little short bursts 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:41.280 of ripples. 0:32:40.720 --> 0:32:40.920 You know? 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:41.640 Do you know what I mean? 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:41.800 Like? 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.760 Could that explain how it's both things that run through 0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:45.520 his brain? 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:48.560 Yes? Absolutely, I think that's probably the first way he 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:51.800 thought about it, is like a little localized ripple, right, 0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:55.480 like a little Yeah, that's the best way to put it, 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:57.920 A little localized ripple, like the way you can send 0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:01.080 a little ripple of water, Yeah, through a swimming pool, 0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:01.600 or something. 0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:03.680 Like a chirp, or like a little sound burst. 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.960 Yeah, exactly, like a little chirp. But it's strange because 0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:10.680 you know, you can make a chirp of any size. 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:12.160 You can make a big one, a little one, a 0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:14.400 long one, a fat one. But light, for some reason, 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.960 wanted to come only these in these little distinct chirps 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:20.920 of a specific size, and the size of those churps 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:24.560 was controlled by their color or their frequency. And so 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:26.520 that was the birth of quantum mechanics, which we could 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.280 spend a whole other podcast talking about. But it was 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:31.720 the first clue that maybe light did come in these 0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:33.000 distinct little packages. 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:36.000 Yeah, let's talk about that, But first, let's take a 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:36.840 quick break. 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:44.320 With the United Explorer card. Earned fifty thousand bonus miles. 0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.880 Then head for places unseen and destinations unknown. 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And then here's the part 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:12.120 that blew my mind is that then they went back 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:15.080 and they did that double slit experiment again, but they 0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:18.399 slowed it down. Instead of shining a really big beam 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:22.000 of light, they just shown one photon at a time, right, Okay, 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.200 because they wanted to see what's going to happen. Right, 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:27.160 if light comes in these little packets, How does that 0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:30.400 explain the interference effect? How can light interfere if it's 0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:30.920 a particle? 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:33.880 So like, instead of like pointing the hose of water 0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:37.760 at these two little holes and just seeing what happens 0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:41.440 on the other side, they were throwing one droplet of water. 0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:45.279 In time, yes, exactly, And what they expected to see 0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:47.400 was that there would be no interference pattern, right, because 0:37:47.400 --> 0:37:49.440 the interference comes from having two sources. 0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:50.160 Right. 0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:52.480 You have interference when you have two waves that are 0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:54.240 either adding up or canceling out. 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.840 Meaning like a huge stream of light is going through 0:37:57.920 --> 0:38:01.440 these two little slits. Then the two little slits act 0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.560 like little sources, like little sorts of ripples, which can 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.799 cancel ze exactly. But if you throw one drop at time, 0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.200 it's either going to go in one slit or it's 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:10.839 going to go on the other slid, right, that's right. 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.040 Yeah, and so the should be nothing to interfere, right, 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:16.560 So that's what they expected. But what they what they 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:17.800 saw blew their minds. 0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:18.040 Right. 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:20.239 What happens if you slow the experiment down, you send 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:23.359 one photon at a time, is that you still get 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:26.520 an interference pattern. It's just that it builds up piece 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:29.840 by piece. So you throw one photon through and it 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:32.719 lands someplace on the screen, Throw another photon through, it 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:35.239 lands somewhere else on the screen. After you add up 0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:39.600 a million photons, you rebuild the original interference pattern you saw. 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:40.520 That's crazy. 0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:43.960 What. Yeah, light is a particle, but it's acting like 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:46.879 a wave. Right, how is that? How can that even be? Right? 0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:49.160 It's not just that it's like it's a particle that's 0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:52.000 acting like a wave, as if it was in a 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:54.640 huge stream of other particles. 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:59.040 Right, that's right, And this blew everybody's mind. And the answer, 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:03.000 of course, is that light is a particle. But like 0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:07.160 every kind of matter, like every particle, how it moves 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:12.160 is governed by mathematics of wave equations. So every particle 0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:16.239 carries with it's some quantum mechanical wave that determines where 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:19.920 it goes. But what was happening in that experiment was 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:23.680 that a particle photon was approaching the experiment and then 0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:25.800 it could either go through the left hand side or 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:30.320 the right hand side slit right, And because it's quantum mechanical, 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.360 it did both. It had a chance to do both, 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.799 and what was interfering was the probability to go through 0:39:36.800 --> 0:39:38.760 the left slit or the right slit. 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:41.080 So that's interesting. I don't think i've heard that explanation 0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:43.960 before that it's a particle and a wave in the 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:47.600 sense that it is a particle, but it moves according 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:48.799 to wave equations. 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:53.080 Yes, everything moves according to wave equations. It's just that 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.319 the wavelength for things depends on how much energy they have. 0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:58.920 So that was this guy de Brogueli. He came up 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:01.920 with this equation and maybe heard the expression to broguely wavelength. 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:04.600 I've heard the expression wavelength. That seems to be a. 0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:09.719 Yeah, everything is wavelengths. We were making fun of that guy. 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:15.880 Turns out he was right, oh twist ending, No, everything 0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:19.960 has a wavelength, right, you can describe the motion of 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:23.400 anything in terms of a wave. Now, the wavelength depends 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:25.560 on the mass and the momentum, and for most things 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:29.480 like me or you or cantelope, the wavelength of its 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:33.760 quantum mechanical wave function is tiny, and so you can't 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:37.640 even notice. Right, the wave effects of you and your 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:39.839 son walking down the hallway and interfering with each other 0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:44.120 are basically negligible. But on the scale of particles, these 0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:45.919 wave functions interfere with each other. 0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:50.040 Yeah, that's a crazy thought that you know. We I 0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:52.560 think people think quantum is something that doesn't affect their lives, 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:58.919 but quantum ideas and concepts are everywhere, right, Like you 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:02.800 have a sort of like a quantum superposition, or you 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.680 you're not really there. You sort of there's a cloud 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:06.960 of you that is. 0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:09.200 I'm not really here, I'm just an AI on the internet. 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:15.000 But that's that's differently cloud. Yeah, there is this quantum 0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:16.200 mechanical certainty and everything. 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:18.760 Guess yeah, yeah, it's just that you can't notice. 0:41:18.840 --> 0:41:21.560 That really blew people's minds. This concept that like, okay, 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:23.840 light is a particle, but it sort of acts like 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:27.000 a wave. We can use these wave equations to describe it. 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.200 And you know, there's another layer to that experiment which 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:35.520 is even crazier, right, which is if what's interfering is 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:37.680 the probability to go through the left slit or the 0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:40.320 right slit right. Then when the when the photon approaches 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.319 the experiment, it can go through one or the other. 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:46.359 The interference pattern comes from the uncertainty of which it's 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:48.360 going to go through. So what you can do is 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:50.480 you can add a little detector to one slit that 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:52.880 like gives you a ping if it goes through that 0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:54.880 slit right, so you know for sure if it goes 0:41:54.920 --> 0:41:57.200 through one slit or the other. If you do that, 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:02.520 the interference pattern disappears. WHOA Why does it disappear? It 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:06.319 disappears because the interference only came from the interference of 0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:09.080 the possibility of the particle to go through the left 0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:12.319 slit or the right slit, our lack of knowledge. Once 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:14.080 you know it goes through the right slide of left slit, 0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:16.960 there's no more uncertainty. There's nothing to interfere. It just 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:19.000 goes through the left or it goes through the right. 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:23.440 It's like you're throwing a boxes full of cats that 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:27.560 are either dead or alive, and you see what happens 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.920 on the other side. It's different if you take a 0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:32.160 peek inside the box before it gets there. 0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:36.399 Exactly exactly, and no cats were harmed in the making 0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.040 of this podcast. I now feel energs to point out 0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:45.480 that's sort of where we are today, is that we 0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:48.080 know that light is a particle and then it comes 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:51.279 in these little discrete packets become photons, right, Yeah, But 0:42:51.320 --> 0:42:54.880 we also know that, like everything else, light is determined 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.719 by how its way you function moves. Every particle and 0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:01.040 every object has this way you function, and how it 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:03.279 moves is controlled by wave equations. 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:06.279 It's not like it's both a particle and a wave 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:08.480 and people don't really know which one it is, or 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:10.600 people are still confused about them. But it sort of 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:12.640 sounds like you're not that confused about it, right, It 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.080 sort of sounds like you know it's a particle, but 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:16.800 it moves around like a wave. 0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:20.719 Yeah, but it's still confusing. I mean, I think you could. 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:24.200 It's totally reasonable to say it's both. It's a particle 0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:26.879 but it acts like a wave. Right, It's also totally 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:30.640 reasonable to say it's neither. It's not a particle, it's 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:33.640 not a wave. It's something else. It's something weird, something 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:37.120 totally strange, we've never seen before. It's a war we 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:42.960 can or a pave you are on fire. 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:49.439 I am simple spelling, but that's that's a joke. 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:53.319 But it's also serious because sometimes we discover things which 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:56.040 are unlike anything else we've seen, and how do you 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:56.680 describe them? 0:43:56.840 --> 0:43:59.680 I meaning we should stop using these words. We should 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:01.880 maybe more than new word to describe what it is, 0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:04.719 because it's not not described by either word. 0:44:04.840 --> 0:44:08.520 Particle, that's right, it's a chapel, it's a cherry apple combination. 0:44:08.719 --> 0:44:11.200 Yeah, let's not call it a particle or a wave. 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:14.279 Let's just make up any word that embodies these two 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:15.799 ways to behave that's right. 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:18.840 But here we've discovered something which is different from anything 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:23.160 in our microscopic world. There's nothing in our world particles, waves, 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:26.880 little puppies. That is a good analogy for what light is. 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:28.920 So we have to try to sort of describe it 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.560 in terms of sometimes it's like this, sometimes like this. 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:34.520 My personal belief is that it's it's not like anything else, 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:38.080 and that these are approximations. But you know, like we 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:40.880 were talking about earlier, you can be different contradictory things 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:44.080 like how would you describe yourself? You know, sometimes your husband, 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:47.319 sometimes your father, sometimes you're a cartoonist. Sometimes you're just 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:50.120 a sleep you know. Like all these things describe you, 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:53.120 they're contradictory. There are different facets of who you are 0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:56.000 at your core, and none of them define you right. 0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:58.600 Right, But if you don't happen to have the right label, 0:44:58.640 --> 0:44:59.440 you make up an you know. 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:02.160 Yeah, that's right, Yes, we need a new thing. 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:02.799 Right. 0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:05.359 Light is definitely its own weird kind of thing. 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:09.759 All right, Well, until next time. 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:19.920 If you still have a question after listening to all 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:23.200 these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.640 hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, 0:45:25.719 --> 0:45:29.400 and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:42.520 email us at Feedback at Danielandorge dot com. 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