1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of financial Heresy, 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: where we talk about how money works so that you 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: can make more, keep more, and give more. Recently, there 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: has been a lot going on in the crypto world 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: with the collapse of giant Ponzi schemes, with fraud being 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: exposed to the world with f t X both US 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: and Block five, and a lot of other companies that 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: were involved, and it seems as if we are experiencing 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: some sort of a domino effect. Everything is collapsing. Many 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: people are asking a question, what does this mean for 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: the future of bitcoin? So I have my friend Alex 12 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Sfetsky on with us today, special guest. We are going 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: to be discussing things like the philosophy and the history 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: that led up to the creation of bitcoin as kind 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: of a concept as a new emergent form of money, 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: given everything that has gone on with government money over 17 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: the past decades, and what the collapse of all of 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: the fraud means for the future of bitcoin. Alex Fetzki 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: he is an entrepreneur. He is uh He runs the 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: Bitcoin Times dot io, a fantastic publication. I highly recommend 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: you go check that out. He's also the co author 22 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: of Uncommunist Manifesto with Mark Moss. Highly recommend you check 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: out that book as well. And without further ado, thank 24 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: you so much Alex for joining us today. All right, well, 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much Alex for joining us today. Really 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: excited here everything that's been going on with crypto bitcoin, 27 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: the fraud, the scams, I'm excited to hear your take. 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: I know you've been in the space for a while. 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: We've talked before, basically predicted, You've been predicting a lot 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: of this for a long time. So thank you so 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: much for joining. It'll be a good conversation. Thank you, Joe. 32 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Good to be back. Man, Well, give us a rundown here, 33 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: UM about about kind of how how we got to 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: this place, UM, with you know, uh bitcoin coming on 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: the scene and then competitors launching from you know, from 36 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: every single area of the universe as money became easier 37 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: and easier. UM, can you give us a little bit 38 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: of a background on how this giant landscape of fraud 39 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: uh came about? Yeah, Man, so if we if we 40 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: go back and think about sort of first principles um 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: bitcoin emerged, you know, and and it's a tricky one. 42 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Some people would call it a discovery. Some people would 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: call it an invention. Um. I think it's a very 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: interesting blend of both. I think, um, you know, the 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: discovery of you know what Michael Saylor would call kind 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: of uh money that kind of conforms to the laws 47 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: of the conservation of energy, right, Um, you know, I 48 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: think breed Loves called it energy money, like this sort 49 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: of this this completely sound you know, closed loop money 50 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: as a concept, you know, and let's just call it 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: energy money for the moment. I think that's something that 52 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: species social species. If there's other aliens out there, for example, 53 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: they need to discover so so human beings sort of 54 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: had to discover this, you know, we we have been 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: trying to, like, you know, I argue our wrot an 56 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: essay for a publication called a Bitcoin Times, which we'll 57 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: talk about later, but I wrote it's called fire Bitcoin 58 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: Teleportation and kind of looked at the the anthropological history 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: of humanity, and I made an argument for that anthropological history, 60 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: particularly as we evolve into social species, being one in which, um, 61 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: the complexity of civilization is a function of the discovery 62 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: of better and better money, because money is the technology 63 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: that enables cooperations. So anyway, as part of that sort 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: of discovery process, know, we we used everything seashells, this, 65 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: that last beats, blah blah, and you know, we sort 66 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: of all seemed to converge on gold, not just because 67 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: but because it's got better properties to be used as money. 68 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: But you know, we've kind of entered the the the 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: age of you know, the industrial age and particularly now 70 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: the digital age, where you know, gold just can't fulfill 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: that promise anymore. So you know, we had to go 72 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: through fiat um. You know, we've had to go through 73 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: plastic credit cards and digital fiat um, and you know, 74 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: along the way, we've we've basically distorted the fundamental nature 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: of human civilization, right because you have one set of 76 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: monkeys who can just produce money, which is like that 77 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: that precious technology that is measuring everyone's action and behavior 78 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: and everything. They can just conjure it up out of 79 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: thin air, while the rest of us actually have to 80 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: expend time and energy to to you know, to earn it. 81 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: So that's completely dis stawted civilization. So so bitcoin comes around, um, 82 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, after many attempts at creating a non state 83 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: money um, and it is bootstrapped in such a way, 84 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: you know, with an anonymous founder with you know, Silk 85 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: Road was very important, like all that early stuff that happened, 86 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: the two pizzas for ten thousand bitcoin, etcetera, etcetera. You 87 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: had this sort of organic emergence and then the disappearance 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: of the founder, like all this sort of stuff happened, 89 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: and you had this bootstrapping of a network which by 90 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, by two tho twelve was effectively its 91 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: own thing. Like it it didn't have a leader anymore, 92 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, the head of the snake disappeared, so it 93 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: couldn't be cut off, um, and it started to oscify. 94 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: So so you have this situation where you know, you've 95 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: got this money which people are starting to come to 96 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: terms with, and it's already had an incredible appreciation from 97 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, a fraction of a fraction of ascent from 98 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: the two pizzas for ten thousand bitcoin two now in 99 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: the you know, to three digit it's um in terms 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: of value, particularly you know during the Silk Road sort 101 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: of ball run um. And you know, you get these 102 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: people that come in and they're like, um, they want 103 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: to change Bitcoin, they want to adapt that. They don't 104 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: get that the point of bitcoin is that nobody can 105 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: change that, nobody can adapt it. It's independent of of 106 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: a management team. UM. So instead of you know, when 107 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: when they realize they can't do that, they go off 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: and create their own coin. So they take some of 109 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: the technical architecture, give it a different name, and then 110 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: under the same sort of banner of you know, non 111 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: state money or whatever, they roll their own shipcoin. And 112 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if the first attempts were 113 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: genuinely like malicious, um, you know, but at some point, 114 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: you know, people caught onto this. And the Etherorum is 115 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: the classic example of you know, a group of people 116 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: who couldn't change bitcoin, who instead got together and basically 117 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: created their own money out of thin air. They pre 118 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: mind it. They gave themselves incre edible you know, amounts 119 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: of senior ridge um, and they set up a management 120 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: team for the money, no different to the Federal Reserve 121 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: or the e c B or anything like that, UM, 122 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: and they rolled it out under the banner of it's 123 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: like a bitcoin, but it does something else, and that 124 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: something else changes every six months depending on whatever you know, 125 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: narrative they want to sort of push or whatever narrative 126 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: is marketable at that particular point in time. So anyway, 127 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: you know they sort of you know, Etherium was like 128 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: the first I c o quote unquote, and it was 129 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: extraordinarily financially successful. Um. And then basically everyone else's caught 130 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: onto the same thing. Um. And you know, you've had 131 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: the kind of the likes of Andrews and Horowitz and 132 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: all these large scale vcs who have kind of figure 133 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: this out there, Like ship, we used to have to 134 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: invest in real businesses and take on real risk and 135 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: invest in real entrepreneurs. Now we need to do is 136 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: literally print money out of thin air by launching a token, 137 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: throwing a little bit of marketing dollars at it, slapping 138 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: our name behind it, which has some credibility because you know, 139 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: if Andrews and Horrowit's is behind it, than it must 140 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: be successful. Um. And then they basically print money out 141 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: of thin air. They don't have to produce anything that 142 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: I have to offer a product, none of that stuff. 143 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: So you've had this sort of you know, in an 144 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: age of easy money, where money is like being printed 145 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: by the Federal Reserve, you've had this whole like cohort 146 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: of people who are using the essentially the Bitcoin narrative 147 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: and elements of the technical architecture of bitcoin to effectively 148 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: do what the Federal Reserve has had a monopoly on. 149 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: It's like print their own money, um, and everyone's trying 150 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: to get in, you know, people of everyone trying to 151 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: just trying to print money out of thin air. And 152 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: this is where you know, in some ways, you know, 153 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: I question whether being a bitcoin maximist is is the 154 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: most intelligent position on the planet or the dumbest, because, 155 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: like you, I have foregone, foregone millions of dollars countless 156 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: amounts of money. Like you know, I've been offered all 157 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: sorts of things for like helping advise shipcoin projects in 158 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: this and that. But you know, for me, there's a 159 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: there's a place for integrity, and you know, like it's 160 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: hard to put a price on integrity, and you know, 161 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: I've I've managed to avoid it because I know at 162 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: some point, you know, all of these things is susceptible 163 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: to just the natural entropy of a organization or institution 164 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: or foundation that is printing money. Like I'll tell you what, 165 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: Like the Federal Reserve is going to collapse, the ECB 166 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: is going to collapse. You know, all these things are 167 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: gonna collapse because they just they they are incongruent with nature, 168 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: um a natural Lauren. So are all the crypto and 169 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: ship cooin projects um, and they're going to go the 170 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: same way. And you know the thing is they'll collapse 171 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: much faster than the US dollar, etcetera, because they don't 172 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: have a military behind them or you know, all of 173 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: the infrastructure that sort of backs the US dollar. So anyway, 174 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: you know, the recent events have been a perfect example 175 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: of that. So anyway that that would be my first 176 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: principles answer to that. Now, you you mentioned a couple 177 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: of things that I'd like to I'd like to touch 178 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: on here see your thoughts if if you know. So, 179 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: we talked about how how governments have been for a 180 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: couple hundred years slowly inching closer and closer to full 181 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: control and uh corrupting the money hypothetically speaking, if governments 182 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: had been in central banks had been uh perfectly above 183 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: board and had never expanded the money supply. And it 184 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: was like, hey, we recognize for velocity of money and 185 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: for globalization and global transfer and trade, we need money 186 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: that moves faster than transporting physical gold. So let's use settlement. 187 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: Yet let's use third party storage of gold, and we'll 188 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: use paper as the medium for that, but we're not 189 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: going to engage in fractional reserve banking. The money supply 190 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: never expands, it's one cent backed by gold. Do you 191 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: think even if it wasn't backed by gold, let's just 192 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: say the paper supply of money never changed. Uh, and 193 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: go that far. Do you think bitcoin and then and 194 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: then after that crypto anything like that would have ever 195 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: ever emerged if governments and central banks have been responsible 196 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: with the with the with that burden of of of 197 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: our money. Yeah, it's a great question. Um, you know, 198 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: maybe not, you know, maybe maybe there wouldn't have been 199 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: a problem for bitcoin to solve. Um. You know, the 200 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: the whole problem that bitcoin solves is that because that 201 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: temptation is there, and because human beings and the institutions 202 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: that they make up are inherently um able to be corrupted. 203 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: You know, bitcoin just sort of removes the lever um 204 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: so that so that that it can't happen. But you know, 205 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: in a hypothetical world where you know that wasn't a 206 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: risk and you know you had uh, you know, real 207 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: leaders and you know people who you know had that, 208 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: like I don't know if there was like a moral 209 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: gene inside human beings such that you know, they didn't 210 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: do that, maybe they wouldn't have been that kind of 211 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: a problem to solving. And it's interesting because it got 212 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: tried with UM with Swiss band banking. So Swiss banking 213 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: was originally like a UM. It was a non fractional 214 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: reserve private banking network developed by a guy called the 215 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: what's his name, Felix Summary who he was called the 216 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: Raven of Zurich, and he he predicted a lot of 217 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: the crap that has happened with you know, the advent 218 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: of central banking and money printing and all that sort 219 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: of stuff was actually contrary to to the original premise 220 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: of Swiss banking UM, and you know, it was kind 221 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: of an attempt to do that. It was kind of 222 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: like a pre bitcoin and pre digital, i say, pre 223 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: modern analog version of bitcoin, you know, was the sort 224 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: of the original incarnation of Swiss banking. And there's UM 225 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: in in the Austrian edition of the Bitcoin Times that 226 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm releasing next week. There's an essay in there by 227 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: a guy called Rahim tagata Gun who's a he's an 228 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: Austrian economist he's actually it's it's funny. He's the last 229 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: Austrian who's an Austrian economist teaching in the traditional Austrian 230 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: tradition in Austria because because because there's no more um. 231 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,479 Speaker 1: And he was actually a student of Hopper directly um 232 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: and he wrote he wrote an essay in this um 233 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: in this publication for me and he mentions it in 234 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: there is because Felix Summary was a student of Karl 235 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: Mango and Karl Mangos, you know, one of the one 236 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: of the fathers of Austrian economics. And Karl's advice to 237 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: Felix was to to not um get into academia, to 238 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: go and actually do something useful with his life. And 239 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, he was the he was the founder of 240 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: basically Swiss banking. So so potentially that could have been 241 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 1: the case, as you said, but you know, unless it wasn't. 242 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: And we all know what happened from sort of nineteen 243 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: seventy one onwards and and here we are so in 244 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: regards to that, it seems like, uh, they sold the 245 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: seeds of their own destruction and made the emergence of 246 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: something like bitcoin inevitable because what they were doing those 247 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: contrary arey to nature. I mean just uh something like 248 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: deflation is the natural cause of wealth growth over time. 249 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: So when you create a monetary system, uh that makes 250 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: everything reliant on inflation, you're sowing the seeds for your 251 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: own destruction because it's contrary to nature. And so something 252 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: like yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say, it's like, uh, 253 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: it's the react. Bitcoin is the reaction in a complex 254 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: system to all of the poking and prodding that has 255 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: occurred by the state of central banks. So in in 256 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: regards then to the emergence of the entire fraudulent crypto 257 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: ecosystem that we saw emerge over the last few years. UM. 258 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: To me, what this seems like is maybe not the 259 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: last dying breath of of the current of the current 260 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: fraudulent central banking system and easy money, but it seems like, uh, 261 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: something that is logical that would emerge alongside Bitcoin to 262 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: have something come up where you have people who have 263 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: been raised and trained by this recent uh tradition of 264 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: easy money, central banking, fractional reserve banking, basically fraud and 265 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: UM see Bitcoin as as a threat to the system 266 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: as more as it attracts more and more people who 267 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: want uh, to interest their their own self interest rather 268 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: the interest of the machine, and so to come alongside 269 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: that and try and hijack it and try and confuse 270 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: people and say, hey, here's something that's like bitcoin but 271 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: even better. UM and uh and that the easy money 272 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: system created by central banks uh fueled that in a 273 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: way almost like hey, this is our big last weapon 274 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: that we can try and throw at this. UM. What 275 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: are your thoughts about that? Yeah, I mean we uh. 276 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: How to thought as you were speaking, is like we're 277 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: in the golden age of scamming. Um. I think there. 278 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever been a time of greater 279 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: scams like and it's it's everything like from you know, 280 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:17,479 Speaker 1: the medical hysteria to you know, the kind of mindless 281 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: like media like and kind of like the blatant gas 282 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: sliding from everyone to the liver kings of the world 283 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: to the sps. So we're like everywhere you look, it's 284 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: a scam, Like everyone is trying to scam everyone for 285 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: something like it's I've you know, it's like griff central 286 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: in modern civilization. So I mean, you know, like the 287 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: if you could like scam relatively anonymously by writing a 288 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: couple of lines of crappy code. Um. You know that 289 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: the temptations too real. I mean, I will say this, 290 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: like even I've thought about it. Even I have thought like, man, 291 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, why don't I just roll the ship coin 292 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: M I'll promote it, make a couple of million dollars, 293 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: maybe ten million dollars exit scam, and I'm out of here. 294 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: You have to work ever again, Like it is very tempting, UM, 295 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: but you know it sort of takes a level of fortitude. 296 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: And we talked about this basically before UM, before the call. 297 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I've been on a history binge 298 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: and particularly like reading about the the warrior culture of 299 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: the samurai in in medieval Japan, and I've been doing 300 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: a lot of reading on kind of the ancient Macedonians 301 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: of Alexander's time and the Romans and the kind of 302 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: you know, nobility and honor and virtue um and sort 303 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: of morality embedded in the in the ethical codes of 304 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: those times. You know, forbade warriors to um to behave 305 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: in you know, immoral ways, and you know, like like 306 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: the kind of character that that sort of bread it 307 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: was very different to the kind of modern loser that 308 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: you see kind of walking around today. It's like, you know, 309 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: in the modern age, it's like, you know, those kind 310 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: of virtues, like you know, they just don't exist anymore, 311 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: like um, and I don't know, like you know, I 312 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: even have a problem with like some of the libertarian 313 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: positions these days, like you know, the whole individual individual 314 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: individual individual, like and I'm an individualist first and foremost, 315 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: but there's just something almost empty and missing about that, 316 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, Like the the ancients had a camaraderie, right, 317 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: like the the there's an anecdote with the Spartans you 318 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: know Themopoli. On the day before they they knew they 319 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: were going to die, there was only a few of 320 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: them left, and they asked Daniquis, who was one of 321 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: the generals, to sort of give them some kind words, 322 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, or to like inspiring words, 323 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: and he said, look, don't fight for lofty ideal such 324 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: as freedom or glory or the greatness of you know, 325 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: the hellenic world, nor even for property or a family. Um, 326 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: fight only for the man that's by your side, for 327 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: he is everything and everything is in him, you know, 328 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: the sort of the quote or something like that, And 329 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: you know that kind of like even saying it brings 330 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: some chills down my spine. Is like that kind of 331 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 1: level of honor, like to do the right thing in 332 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: spite of death or in spite of damage and everything 333 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: like that. That kind of stuff has been lost in 334 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: the modern world. So it's no wonder that, you know, 335 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: when the opportunity to scam and to have something for 336 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: nothing arises, basically everyone runs for that. And the problem is, 337 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: like over time, you know, when you see that people 338 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: like that with no morals, with no virtue, with no integrity, 339 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, with none of those attributes, when they're the 340 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: ones succeeding and making money and living it up on 341 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: a yacht and you know, like getting tables at the 342 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: bars and all that sort of stuff, you start to 343 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: ask yourself, like what am I doing? Like, you know, 344 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: why am I trying so hard to be moral, to 345 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: be good? You know, when just roller ship coin, you know, 346 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: and do whatever like and it starts to really decay civilization. 347 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: And I honestly think, like we're in the dark ages. 348 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the only place that we've excelled 349 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: in modern in the modern ages, like technologically speaking, other 350 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: than that, like morally, intellectually emotionally, physically, you know, all psychologically, 351 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: all these areas we've we've regressed big time, like everyone's 352 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: fat or be dumb, lazy, you know, narcissistic, like all 353 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: all the things that you can sort of like point 354 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: out in terms of like virtue other than materials sort 355 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: of stuff. Is like, he's down, and I think you 356 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: know did this if you go upstream and try and 357 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: think about you know, what's happened here is that you know, 358 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: the the incentives have been messed up because we we 359 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: were rewarding the wrong thing. So I don't have that 360 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: answer your question or if we're going on a bit 361 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: of a tangent there, but well, it does, it does, 362 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: and it leads into the next, uh, the next thing 363 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your thoughts on, which is rules 364 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: versus rulers, because in the United States, we have this 365 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: nation that was founded on rule of law, constitution. Hey, 366 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: nobody can change this, so it doesn't matter who's in power. 367 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: It really doesn't because the only thing the law is 368 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: therefore is to protect rights. And so just because somebody 369 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: else you don't like gets in power, the only thing 370 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: they can do is protect your right. So it really 371 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: doesn't it really doesn't matter that much. UM. And slowly, 372 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: over time that's morphed into rule of man and a 373 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: system where it does matter who's in charge, because you 374 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: have rule of man and whoever's in charge gets to it, 375 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: gets to make make up their own rules. And what 376 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: that's led to is a system where when rulers want 377 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: to be for self self interest immorally, they want to 378 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: engage in behaviors and practices that are immoral, whether that's 379 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: whether that's theft or whether that's you know, corrupt, whatever 380 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: it is, UM, they end up having to justify it somehow. 381 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: And when the rulers of a system over time justify 382 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: their own immorality more and more and more, they shape 383 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: the system to benefit from immorality more and more and more. UM. Ultimately, 384 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: I think so in the seeds of its own destruction. 385 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: But that's why money, in my opinion, is the foundation 386 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: of that. Because if you have a money that is 387 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: built on rules, whether it's the laws of physics like 388 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: gold or um, whether it's the laws built into the 389 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: open source software like bitcoin, um, and everybody can trial 390 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: their own and when they all fail, you'll come back 391 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: to come back to bitcoin. It's built on rules. It's 392 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: not built on rulers, like like a central bank, and 393 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: so you can't have somebody come in and corrupt the system. Uh, 394 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: building a new system incentivizing corruption on top of it. Totally, totally. 395 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the the US is very interesting 396 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: experiment because you know, it's it's an attempt. It was 397 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: one of the first attempts to on paper codify these rules. 398 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you had the Magna Carta sort 399 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: of before that. UM, you know, the sort of the 400 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: periods like the Tokogawa shogun in um in Japan, in 401 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: you know, sort of between I think that was like 402 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: the sixteen to the eighteen hundreds. UM. You know, they 403 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: it was less you know, written, but more it was 404 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: like this, you know, as I said, the bushido was 405 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: like a moral code. You know, it was an expectation 406 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: of the warrior class. UM. You know, the they're all 407 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: interesting experiments in trying to effectively have rules, UM, and 408 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: not just rulers. Although it's it's a it's a tricky thing. 409 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: It's something I've been trying to give more thought to recently. 410 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: Is um. You know, you rulers inevitably arise UM. But 411 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know where I'm going with this, 412 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: Like it's sort of like the I'm trying to think 413 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: of the differentiation between like a ruler and a leader 414 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: because sort of, you know, you had these ancient rulers. 415 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: For example, I'll use Alexander the Great Um once again. 416 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: And he he fucking led from the front Um. You know, 417 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: there's there's a great anecdote of his where I mean 418 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: they were, they were traveling through the desert, and a 419 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: week before that he had gotten a fucking arrow through 420 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: the lung because he was the first over the wall 421 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: um at a at a siege that they were performing, 422 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: So he was the fucking first over the wall. The 423 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: king gets an arrow in the lung, barely lives. They 424 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: pull it out, no anesthetic, none of that of stuff. Um. 425 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: And then they have to march across the damn desert 426 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: um to to get to the ports so they can 427 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: leave Um. And on that march, you know, he's almost dying, 428 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: and you know, it's like a massive hardship, and you know, 429 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: and they're all dying of thirst and all that sort 430 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: of stuff. And the a couple of soldiers actually found 431 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: a they found some water, and they went they filled 432 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: up a helmet, um, you know, and they took it 433 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: back to him and like they had to like protect 434 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: the damn helmet of the water so that nobody would 435 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: grab it. And when they brought it to him, um, 436 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: he grabbed it and he spilled the water out in 437 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: front of the whole army so he would not drink 438 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: the water. So so so that kind of leadership is 439 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: completely gone today. So you know, that kind of rulership 440 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: and leadership is very different to the kind of rulers 441 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: that you know, we we sort of think about today, 442 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: like you know, Joe Biden, Trump, Like, none of these people, 443 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: none of them would ever do anything like that. Um. 444 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: So so you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking more deeply, 445 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: Like the beauty of bitcoin is that you know, you 446 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: you have rules, which you mentioned. You know, Gold's rules 447 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: are sort of embedded in physics. Bitcoins rules are also 448 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: embedded in physics, you know, and you know it it's 449 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: sort of it's a it's a solution to the stage 450 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: we're at in civilization where we don't have to wait 451 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: for another Alexander the Great or Jesus Christ to come up, um, 452 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: in order to inspire people to behave in the right way. 453 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: It's like we've actually solved it in a technological way 454 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: and kind of placed the money outside of everyone's hands. 455 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: And now you know, we we have a money with rules, 456 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: and now we can we can actually play a fair game. 457 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: So kind of I'm grabbed link with the rules thing 458 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: because at some point rulers will come up again. But uh, 459 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: the the the capacity to to devolve into a tyrannical 460 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, children will be inhibited. I think by the 461 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: existence of something like bitcoin. It's I could be wrong 462 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 1: about this. I think the distinction comes down to the 463 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: foundation versus the building. So um, when you look at 464 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: when you look at the rules that are at the 465 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: those are the foundations of the society. And so um. 466 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: When you have when you have the ability for somebody 467 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: to come in and change the rules, you're shifting the foundation. 468 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: And no, no building, no structure can survive on a 469 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: shifting foundation. Um. And and so the rules being having 470 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: no ability to be changed mean that you can build 471 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: any sort of dynamics structure on hop of the foundation, um, 472 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: much stronger, larger, more useful, whatever, um. And so in 473 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: my opinion, the difference between like the ruler versus the 474 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: leader the ruler would be the one that can change 475 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: the foundation. The leader is the one that can uh 476 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: influence the strength of the structure built on top of 477 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: the foundation um. And so that that's kind of the 478 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: way that I look at it. I want to make 479 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: a note though, it's very interesting what you said about 480 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: the that Alexander the Great uh being the one to 481 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: get the arrow through his heart when he made it 482 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: over the wall um. I don't know if he was 483 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,719 Speaker 1: the origin of this um, but in uh In right 484 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: around Jesus time. So in the in the Bible, Paul 485 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: is writing writing books in the Bible, and there was 486 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: there was a cultural um honor that was awarded to 487 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: soldiers called the wall King, and when they were length 488 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: siege to a city, the first person, first soldier to 489 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: make it over the wall um and live was crowned 490 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: the wall King. It was like a huge honor um. 491 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: And because normally if you make it over the wall first, 492 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: you're not gonna you're not gonna survive, and so it's 493 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: very rare for somebody to win win that award, kind 494 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: of like a purple heart type of thing of being 495 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: the being the wall King. So I wonder if that 496 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: is I wonder if he's the origin of that. I 497 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: would I would love to he may he maybe he 498 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: may be. There was a there's a number of things 499 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: that you know, he was the sort of the fountain 500 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: head of and that generally could be one. So all right, 501 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: now that we've kind of gone through the philosophical and 502 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: the moral history of kind of where we got to 503 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 1: where we are today. Um, right now we are seeing 504 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: a collapse of of this fraud, which is you know, 505 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: ultimately what happens, um, you have have it go on 506 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: as long as possible and to the extent that you 507 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: control regulations, uh kind of dictates how long these these 508 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: schemes can go go on. So you know, Central Banking 509 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: will be the last, the last fraudulent scheme to topple. Um. 510 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: But right now we're seeing you know, the claps of 511 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: f t X, the clocks claps of Block five, and 512 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: many others are gonna start coming after this. Lots of 513 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: people right now are talking about defy and saying, hey, 514 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: this is the solution, this is this is safe, and uh, 515 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: many people, uh, including you and I, many people smarter 516 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: than us, are saying no, no, no, no, no, that's 517 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: that's all that's all part of the same thing. Um. 518 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: So can you describe the difference between um defy, which 519 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: looks like it's still standing and bitcoin. Yeah, I mean 520 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: the so c FI as they sort of call the 521 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: block fives and the Celsius and everything of the world 522 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: is effectively you know entities companies that that offering yield 523 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: or whatever products and services by you know, storing your 524 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: capital for you. Um. Then yeah, it's not your keys, 525 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: not your coins, as we've all heard. You know, they 526 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: can do whatever they want with it. I mean that 527 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: they can't do whatever they want with it, but uh, 528 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: like they can if you get whatever, Like they can't 529 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: but they can't supposed to do but they want they could, Yeah, 530 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: which is what happened with fds. Now, the whole defy 531 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: spaces is it's an anathema. So it's kind of like 532 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: the it's the same thing, um in the sense that, 533 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: like you know, UNI swap paused their services, which is 534 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: supposed to be a decentralized defy you know trading platform, right. Um. 535 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: You know, the well Do Kuan thing was supposed to 536 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: be a defy application, right. It was a it was 537 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: a decentralized version of a thing so all of these 538 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: things um. Like they use the word defy um in 539 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: the same way as crypto uses the word bitcoin to 540 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: try and masquerade as something that is unchangeable or you know, 541 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: incorruptible or immutable is the word that generally gets thrown around. 542 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: The problem is they're not like Bitcoin is immutable because 543 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: for almost fifteen years now there's been an increase in 544 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: the sort of the hash rate um, the amount of miners, 545 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: the amount of nodes um, so to quote Bitcoin times again. 546 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: There's a fantastic piece in their Biguy called Michael Goldstein, 547 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: who's one of the genuine fountain heads of of bitcoin. 548 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: Here is the guy who got safet in a most 549 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: into bitcoin and all the sort of stuff. Kids are 550 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: fucking genius. And he wrote a piece called Toward a 551 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: Node World Order, which is an idea that you know, 552 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: as why bitcoin solves the problems that gold failed to 553 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: solve and that Fiat created in trying to solve gold problems, right, 554 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: And you know, he talks about the importance of running 555 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: a node and how that is effectively the solution. And 556 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: you've sort of got that with bitcoin is that you know, 557 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: every node keeps a copy of the bitin blockchain, every 558 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: node is effectively Bitcoin. Like when I run a node 559 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: and I have it at my place, I am running 560 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: bitcoin um. And if you are running a node, we 561 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: form a network because we're running the same damn thing 562 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: with the same consensus, with the same rules, and we're 563 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: in consensus. That's what actually makes the Bitcoin network special. 564 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: And all these d fight projects they don't have. You know, 565 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: no one's running a node. You know, no one's like that. 566 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: There is no network that is in sync or any 567 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: of that sort of stuff that exists. Like Ethereum, for example, 568 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: is um is not not only is a sort of 569 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: run by a foundation, but you know there's like I 570 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: think the last time I checked this, like there's four 571 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: nodes running and they're all on Infura, which is like 572 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: a company that is owned by Consensus, which is the 573 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, a branch of the Ethereum Foundation UM. And 574 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of like cloud based because the Ethereum network 575 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: is too bloated for any individual to run a node. 576 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: So you've sort of you've got this sort of ask 577 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: backwards attempt at creating dessentral as ation, which doesn't work 578 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: because of the the engineering trade offs in the beginning, 579 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: but plus the very ethos that their foundation is built upon. UM. 580 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: So you know, all this sort of DeFi stuff stemming 581 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: out of that is just companies no different to FTX 582 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: or Binance or block Fire or Celsius masquerading as a 583 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: protocol mm hmm that talks to the Ethereum network or 584 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: Celano or whatever other bullshit network there is, UM, but 585 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: that can be paused and stopped and changed, and the 586 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: same fucking thing happens there and UM, you know, like 587 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: it's it's jumping from the fry pan into the fire. 588 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: That's that's all it is. Like. So so for me, defires, 589 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: it's not de fight sea fire. UM. And you know, 590 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: the person who I think wrote a brilliant piece about 591 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 1: this was Alan Farrington. He wrote a long ESA called 592 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: only the Strong Survive UM and he dismantled the notion 593 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: of defy. This was almost a year ago now when 594 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: he wrote that. It was it was a fantastic essay. UM. 595 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: I'll send you the link after the call so you 596 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: can add it into the show notes. But you know, 597 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: if people, you know, want a sort of a more 598 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: elaborate technical explanation, Alan Farrington, you know, used to be 599 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: um at. I forgot the firm, but they're they're they're 600 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: one of the top ten I think private equity firms 601 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: in the world. They've got like something like four and 602 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: a half trillion under management. And he was in there 603 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: trying to orange pill them. Basically brilliant, brilliant guys, super 604 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: super super sharp, and yeah, he wrote only the strong 605 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: survive and he basically tore apart um this sort of 606 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: de fi crap. And you know, basically everything he said 607 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: in there has come true more or less, and anything 608 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: that hasn't come true yet is will come true in 609 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: the in the coming years. And this extends even to 610 00:35:52,880 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: applications that are not trying to pose as decentralized money. 611 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: This applies to other things like companies trying to use 612 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: blockchain as an application for technology that already exists, so 613 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,959 Speaker 1: and and and we're about to see that come down 614 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: to like there's a there's a website, it's a video 615 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: they're trying to compete with YouTube, but they did it 616 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: with a blockchain. I think it's l b r Y 617 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: or Odyssey, and they're getting shut down by the by 618 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: the SEC because uh, they're now labeled it's a security. 619 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: They were issuing an unregistered security. So this this extends 620 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: even beyond just money competitors, This extends to like technological 621 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: applications as well. Right, totally, totally, the whole blockchain thing 622 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: is a is A is a great stupidity. Actually, you know, 623 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: the where I where this first dawned on me was, 624 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, funny story was when I was first sort 625 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: of getting into bitcoin. You know, I fell down the 626 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: crippler rabbit hole and the blockchain rabbit hole, you know, 627 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff and um, and you know, 628 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: I call it my days of climbing Mount stupid Um. 629 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: And I didn't spend too much time up there, you know, 630 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: because I quickly found out that this was stupid. And 631 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: basically I was I was running a little kind of 632 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: like a consultancy business called the Blockchain Training Institute. And 633 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: as I was putting together the courses for us. At 634 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: first I would go in and consult businesses and government 635 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: and this and that, and then I started putting courses 636 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: together and I I was explaining I remember, I vividly 637 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: remember this. I put together a course for open block chains, 638 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, because I was supposed to be under that banner. 639 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: And then I was creating this one for private block chains, 640 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: and I came to the realization I was like, a 641 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: private blockchain is just the fucking database shared by a 642 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: couple entities that are all in cahoots already. So it's like, 643 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: it defeats the goddamn purpose of having a blockchain. Like, 644 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: all you're doing is you're getting the worst of both worlds, 645 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: which is you have a coordinator and you've just made 646 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: your system slower. Like congratulations, you're an idiot. So you know, 647 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: as I like, as I was writing the course content 648 00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: out for this, I was like, this is fucking dumb, 649 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: so like, and then the more I dug into it, 650 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: the more I realized that the whole blockchain idea like blockchain, Like, 651 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: I did a whole talk about this, and this is 652 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: actually what kicked off the Bitcoin Times for me was 653 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: I got invited to do a talk, and my talks 654 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: on YouTube still it's called blockchain is dead, the future 655 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: is en lightning, and it was it inspired me to 656 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: write the first copy of the Bitcoin Times where I 657 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: explain why blockchain is such a stupidity um, And there's 658 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: there's sort of like a graph in there which is um, 659 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: if you have a coordinator of any sort. There's no 660 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: need to create multiple redundancies of your database because you're 661 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: gonna do slowdown. So so so that's kind of out the window. 662 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: Then UM if what sort of the second thing was 663 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: if you if you do need a man. It's been 664 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: years since I wrote this, but basically the premise was 665 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: that the thing that gives bitcoin security is not some 666 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: magical technology called the blockchain whatever the hell that is. 667 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: The thing that makes bitcoin secure is the economic momentum 668 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: behind bitcoin, in the form of mining and holders and 669 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: people running their own nodes, etcetera. It's this sort of 670 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: it's a it's an economic thing. So to reverse a 671 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: bitcoin transaction, you need to put money at stake, you 672 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: need to put capital, economic capital at stake, and you 673 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: need to continuously do that because there is continuous motion 674 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: in bitcoin, like it is kind of like a dam. 675 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: It's kind of like a river that's pushing forward. UM. 676 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: And you don't get that with UM with blockchain because 677 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: most of what people are trying to do with blockchain 678 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: is remove the economic thing, which is the currency piece, 679 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: so you kind of eliminate the need for it. And 680 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: then if you're trying to do it with UM you know, 681 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: like what ethereum or these other crypto as are doing, 682 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: like live l b R O Y and I think, 683 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: you know whatever they're called UM, you're creating like the 684 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: token element UH is effectively economic entity of its own. 685 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: It becomes the money that then must compete with the 686 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: US dollar and bitcoin and all these sorts of things. 687 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: And what are you trying to do? Run a business 688 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: or run an economy? You can't do both. It becomes 689 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: very freaking difficult. Like Bitcoin is succeeding because it's the 690 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: scope of operation is so narrow that it's just money 691 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: and the goal is separate money from state. There's nothing else. 692 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: There's none of this sort of fancy ship all going 693 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: on there, whereas l b R Y has to run 694 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: a business, try and figure out if by trying to 695 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: distribute all of the data that you know, they're going 696 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: to make themselves less efficient and at on top of that, 697 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: they have to operate a fucking economy UM and actually 698 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: be a central bank and compete with the liquidity and 699 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: economic mass of Bitcoin, the US dole and everything fucking 700 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: else that's out there. It's not gonna win, it's gonna fail. 701 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: So so this is sort of like with blockchain, is 702 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: just the I don't know, a massive stupidity and you know, 703 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: sort of outside of the context the bitcoin, you know, 704 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: it's completely irrelevant. Yeah, if you're if you're creating something 705 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: that ends up in practice being money, you're competing with 706 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: all other forms of money because money is a winner 707 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: take all game. The idea that many people have put 708 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: forward that we're going to have many cryptocurrencies, all all 709 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: all living harmoniously among each other and being used for 710 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: different applications is preposterous. Many money is a winner take 711 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: all game because economies will naturally uh move towards the 712 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: one money that solves the most problems, the best UM 713 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: and at the foundation that is probably coincidence of wants, 714 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: which then eradicates any competition of money, you always land 715 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: at one UM. So so that makes perfect sense. And 716 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: then to try and apply it towards the technological application, 717 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,919 Speaker 1: it's like either the UM you're gonna you're gonna slow 718 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: it down, make it more inefficient, which raises the cost, 719 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: and you're not actually you're not actually solving any real 720 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: world problems anymore than the the alternative, Like people say, Okay, 721 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: n f T s are going to be your you know, 722 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: tickets to get in and out, and it's like because 723 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: you can sell them and buy and sell them with 724 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: each other. It's like have you ever heard of ticket 725 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: Master and StubHub, Like it's literally what they do when 726 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: you don't need an n f T for it, and 727 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: so it's free. But if you try and use an 728 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 1: n f T to do that, it makes it so 729 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: inefficient that the cost just skyrockets, um because you're mingling 730 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: to uh, foundational functions that don't that don't go together. 731 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: It's like a Frankenstein. Yeah, it's they've they're a bunch 732 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: of Route Goldberg machines. And I remember that in my 733 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: UM in my in the Bitcoin Times edition. One is 734 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: like when I talk about like you you know, you 735 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: you have the private blockchain, which is ridiculous. Then you 736 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: have the there was a second option, and then then 737 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: the third option was basically the Route Goldberg machine, which 738 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: is you know what you just mentioned, It's like this 739 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: thing that you create just to create it, um and 740 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: in the end it's stupid like it. It actually is 741 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: slow and more expensive, you know, more cumbassome, and all 742 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: the things that you don't want from an innovation. It's 743 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 1: kind of like building a building an aeroplane by touching 744 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: like balloons to a fucking couch, you know. Yeah, it's 745 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: like a build a flying machine. Congratulations. Right alright, So 746 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: for anybody who was previously convinced about crypto has now 747 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 1: lost all their money that they had on ftx is 748 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: exchanges and is now burned from the space and thinks 749 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: bitcoin is also going down. But now they're thinking, maybe 750 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm wrong about this, maybe bitcoin is going to be 751 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: the way to go. What is the best place for 752 00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,360 Speaker 1: people to learn more about the basics of bitcoin um 753 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: moving forward? Yeah, I mean there's there's heaps of resources. Um. 754 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: You know, I've been writing for a number of years, 755 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: so if people have felt like they've got some insights 756 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: out of this, they can check out my medium. But 757 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: the publication that I've put together called the Bitcoin Times, UM, 758 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: they can find it at Bitcoin times dot io io 759 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: sorry um. And yeah, there's there's a there's a whole 760 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: series of essays on there. I'm actually taking all of 761 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: the essays and packaging them up into this really nicely 762 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: designed magazine which people can purchase four bitcoin um and 763 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,280 Speaker 1: at the moment edition three and four available. I'm getting 764 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: one and two redesigned. In addition five is about the drop, 765 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,919 Speaker 1: which is the Austrian edition, and each one has a theme. 766 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: It kind of looks at bitcoin through a particular lens 767 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,319 Speaker 1: um and tries to understand bitcoin. So the recent one 768 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: of the Austrian edition looks at bitcoin through an Austrian 769 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: lens and at Austrian economics through a bitcoin lens. Last 770 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: year's one, which was really good. Um you can also 771 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: get a free copy, I think by popping your email 772 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: in um is you had some stuff in there about mining. 773 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: Had my one the fire Bitcoin Teleportation about kind of 774 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: like how how anthropologically and civilizationally significant something like bitcoin 775 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: actually is in the grand scheme of things. There was 776 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: a piece by Alan Farrington called the Separation of Money 777 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: and State, and in there he talks about this idea 778 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: of like toxic bigness, which is effectively what money has 779 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: has created in the world is like it's it's created 780 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: all these, um you know things that we look at 781 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: that are bad, like the monopolies and you know the 782 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: famger on the on the on the stock exchange, you know, Facebook, Amazon, 783 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: you know all that sort of stuff is all downstream 784 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: function of having you know, a Centralized Money issuer and 785 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: UM previous actual edition a really good one. In addition, 786 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: three was Parker Lewis, who's the one of the founders 787 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,280 Speaker 1: that Unchained Capital, wrote a piece called The Great de Financialization, 788 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: which is a bit of a play on words there, 789 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: which I think is very relevant to this conversation, where 790 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: it basically takes apart the idea of you know, in 791 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: the future, we'll actually have less financialization than we have 792 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: today because bigcoin will simplify money markets, it will simplify commerce, 793 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 1: it'll it'll it'll do away with all of the crap 794 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: that we sort of have in the way UM and 795 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's the proper way to think about 796 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: DeFi is like the de Financialization. And there's a piece 797 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: in there from Jeff Booth which is fantastic as well, 798 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: called The Greatest Game, which talks about like how bitcoin 799 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: is playing the greatest game of all um. And you know, 800 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: Jeff Booth is a brilliant author, brilliant thinker. So anyway, 801 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: i'd recommend people to go check that out. You know, 802 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: the essays are available for free and then they can 803 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: pick up a copy if they they'd like to support 804 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: the work. But you know that's where I'd go if 805 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,759 Speaker 1: follows them. And you know, at the end of the day, 806 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: like the whole game here is that this is going 807 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: to take decades to occur, like bitcoin will like because 808 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: it's always going to be there. It's not going to change. 809 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: The rules are the same. As time passes, more and 810 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: more people will just start to allocate a portion of 811 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,399 Speaker 1: their wealth into this thing that is unchangeable, um. And 812 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: as more time passes, more people trust that it will 813 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: become easy to use, easy to acquire, and all that 814 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,880 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. And that's just going to keep building 815 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 1: its economic base and its economic mass. And you know, 816 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: we're lucky enough to be talking about this fourteen years 817 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: in like you know, in ten fifty years, like where 818 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: this thing is going to be is going to be 819 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: completely you know, it will be paradigmatically different, um. And 820 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: you know that's where the upside opportunity is. Is like 821 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,919 Speaker 1: kind of finding a nugget of gold while the whole 822 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: world was still using salt to trade, right is you know, 823 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: the nugget of gold would have been worthless initially, but 824 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: it ended up being the thing of value. So that's 825 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 1: kind of what bit coin represents. So you know, loan 826 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: read see a bitcoin through a bit of lens um 827 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: and acquire us some bitcoin and take it off the 828 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: damn exchanges and custody it yourself. That's the whole point 829 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: of this thing. Yeah. Absolutely, well, I highly recommend the 830 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: Bitcoin Times. It is extremely high quality. It's not one 831 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 1: of these you know, little UH blogs where people are 832 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,800 Speaker 1: putting out short, low quality information just to continue pumping 833 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,799 Speaker 1: content out. So I highly recommend it. I will link 834 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,839 Speaker 1: it below. And um, thank you so much for joining us. 835 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,279 Speaker 1: We this is a tour of history and philosophy and 836 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: morals and UH and money and technology. So it's been fantastic. 837 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you. Women really appreciate our conversations. Yeah, well, 838 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: well we'll talk again soon