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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Moving on to housing, this is the story

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Speaker 3: we've been wanting to cover for quite a long time.

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Speaker 3: And of course, here in Washington you will see Republicans

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Speaker 3: kiss Trump's ass on any number of things. Then he

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Speaker 3: tries to do something good for once, and what happens.

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Speaker 3: Let's put it up here on the screen. Proposed ban

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Speaker 3: on investors in the housing market.

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Speaker 1: Hits a wall in Congress.

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Speaker 3: Whitehouse is pressteroring GOP and Congress to add an investor

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Speaker 3: ban to exist stinghousing bills, but lawmakers have pushed back.

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Speaker 1: Now let's just think about this.

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Speaker 3: Bomb Venezuela in violation of the law, No problem, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: bomb Iran, no problem.

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Speaker 1: Let's extend massive tax cuts.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course, here you go. Anything else? Didn't

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Speaker 3: see the tweet? Sorry, what was that? I'm not aware

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 1: Let's ban investors from Oh no, we can't have that.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't. We couldn't possibly allow something like that.

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Speaker 3: We'll have to start at a subcommittee level before we

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Speaker 3: start to consider something like this. So this is Washington, people,

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Speaker 3: this is Washington. If you try and do something even

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Speaker 3: marginally good, you're dead. And look, my sources tell me

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Speaker 3: they're going to continue to fight on this, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to hold my breath. But the biggest problem

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Speaker 3: and most revealing part of all of it is just

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Speaker 3: to show you where power really lies. What they are

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Speaker 3: willing to hold the line, if anything, that's that's everything, right,

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Speaker 3: What are they actually willing to fight about?

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Speaker 1: And this is one of them.

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Speaker 3: And what they talk about here specifically is that, for example,

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Speaker 3: lawmakers in both chambers have resisted adding the investor ban,

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Speaker 3: which traditional free market advocates say they oppose. Any such

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Speaker 3: amendment would derail a bipartisan momentum behind current housing packages.

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Speaker 3: The House overwhelmingly voted in favor of a current bill

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Speaker 3: by three hundred and ninety to nine. The two chambers

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Speaker 3: will then have to reconcile later. However, the OMB issued

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Speaker 3: a statement reiterating the administration's insistence on this investor ban.

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Speaker 3: But it was immediately had huge pushback. And all of

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Speaker 3: this is because the people they work for are not

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Speaker 3: you or I. It is the very big time investors themselves,

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Speaker 3: the people who are locking up housing stock. Part of

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Speaker 3: the other problem, Crystal is Trump himself is all over

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Speaker 3: the place, so at the very same time that he

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Speaker 3: wants to what does he want to do. He wants

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Speaker 3: to ban investors from buying houses. He also is a

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Speaker 3: slave to the boomers who wants to keep their housing

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Speaker 3: prices high.

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Speaker 1: His words, not mine.

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Speaker 4: Here's what you have to say, existing housing people that

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Speaker 4: own their homes, We're going to keep them wealthy. We're

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Speaker 4: going to keep those prices up. We're not going to

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Speaker 4: destroy the value of their homes so that somebody that

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Speaker 4: didn't work very hard can buy a home. We're going

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Speaker 4: to get we're going to make it easier to buy.

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Speaker 4: We're going to get interest rates down. But I want

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Speaker 4: to protect the people that, for the first time in

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Speaker 4: their lives, feel good about themselves. They feel like they've

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Speaker 4: you know, that they're wealthy people, and I want them

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Speaker 4: to understand it. You know, there's so much talk about, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're going to drive housing prices down. I don't want

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Speaker 4: to drive housing prices down. I want to drive housing

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Speaker 4: prices up for people that own their homes and they

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Speaker 4: can be assured that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go and stick a gun in my mouth.

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Speaker 3: All right, for the first time in their lives, these

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Speaker 3: people are wealthy. Really, they've been wealthy for a long time. Actually,

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Speaker 3: all right, will somebody please think of the person who

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Speaker 3: bought a Santa Monica piece of real estate for two

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand and now it's worth two point four million.

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Speaker 1: I mean I weep for that individual.

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Speaker 3: In fact, all I want to do is cap their

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Speaker 3: property tax and pay for their dialysis, and then continue

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Speaker 3: to pay for their retirement and then whenever they die

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Speaker 3: and they pass it on to their children and we

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Speaker 3: don't get a single dollar of it because of the

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Speaker 3: step up basis.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is what makes me proud to be

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Speaker 1: in America.

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Speaker 3: That is that is that is that is justice, fairness

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Speaker 3: and the American dream at its heart. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is this is the problem. This is the problem. We're

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Speaker 3: slave to these people all anybody wants to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, somebody please think these people who worked hard

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Speaker 3: and played by the rules. It's like, well, part of

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Speaker 3: the rules is called a property tax, except what do

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Speaker 3: they do because they write the rules, they try to

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Speaker 3: make it go away. If you try to do anything

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Speaker 3: that might marginally decrease the price of housing, then oh,

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Speaker 3: oh no, we can't have that because it would hurt

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Speaker 3: a little bit of their stock, I mean a little

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Speaker 3: bit of their their gains. It drives me insane. But

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Speaker 3: this is that's actual the government policy. Well and Trump,

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Speaker 3: that's what's so maddening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Trump. Trump is a nimby to his core.

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Speaker 2: Like this is not the first time. This is the

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Speaker 2: most overt that he's laid out his view of like

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Speaker 2: I don't want housing prices to go down, and crazy

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Speaker 2: those people vote, like I want their housing prices to

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Speaker 2: continue to go up, and like we'll give you a

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Speaker 2: fifty year mortgage.

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Speaker 5: I remember that was one of his ideas.

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Speaker 2: So since housing prices are wildly unaffordable, and there's no

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Speaker 2: way you can do, you know, stomach a mortgage payment

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Speaker 2: for twenty or thirty year mortgage. How about we do

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Speaker 2: a fifty year mortgage that'll get you in the door.

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Speaker 2: Those are the sorts of ideal ideas that are most

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Speaker 2: appealing to him, because he truly is a nimbi to

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Speaker 2: his core. I mean, there have been plenty of campaign

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Speaker 2: rhetoric from him talking about how Democrats want to destroy

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Speaker 2: the suburbs, they want to destroy your neighborhood and bring

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Speaker 2: in all these undesirables. And this is very like deep

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Speaker 2: in New York politics, especially in like the New York

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Speaker 2: City suburbs. Janine Piro comes down of some of these

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Speaker 2: like nimbi fights, and it's a bit of I mean,

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Speaker 2: he is in a sense, he's very brazen about it.

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Speaker 2: He's not wrong about some of the politics though, because

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Speaker 2: they are very powerful and influential and mobilized group of voters.

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Speaker 2: You know, the fact that they are homeowners means that

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Speaker 2: number one, oftentimes there's some money that they can throw

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Speaker 2: to campaigns, but number two, you know, they're locked in,

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Speaker 2: they're in a neighborhood. They put roots down in a community.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the important things about home ownership is

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Speaker 2: it allows that that dynamic to take hold. And if

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Speaker 2: you're more transient, you're less likely to be engaged in

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Speaker 2: your local political culture. So if you're a renter, you're

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Speaker 2: sort of inherently less likely to be as influential at

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Speaker 2: the ballot box. Older people vote in larger numbers. This

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Speaker 2: is his core base, So that's what he is reflecting here.

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Speaker 2: It's just crazy to hear him say it out loud

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Speaker 2: that no, I love the housing pubble, I want to

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Speaker 2: continue to inflate it forever, and instead I want to

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Speaker 2: come up with these like exotic financial instruments that keep

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Speaker 2: you indebted and enslaved for your entire life, rather than

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Speaker 2: actually trying to create to surge more affordable housing. The

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Speaker 2: thing that's you know, this bipartisan housing legislation in the

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Speaker 2: House in the Senate, which you know, I don't have

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Speaker 2: a lot of hope that is going to really change

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Speaker 2: the game on anything whatever. It's a lot of sort

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Speaker 2: of abundance style ideas of hey, let's roll back regulation here,

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Speaker 2: let's roll back red tape there, let's explore some different

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Speaker 2: housing construction methods, all things that I'm fortified.

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Speaker 5: All fine, right, but.

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Speaker 2: You know, I again, it's I think there's a demonstration

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Speaker 2: of the limits of what can be done with that.

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Speaker 2: If you don't have more sort of aggressive and direct

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Speaker 2: government intervention to surge affordable housing, just letting the free

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Speaker 2: market do its thing is not going to be enough

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Speaker 2: to overcome what is a massive housing deficit and what

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Speaker 2: is a you know, insane increase in housing prices for you.

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Speaker 1: Look, I should.

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Speaker 3: Clarify I'm not a total yimbi either. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't like a lot of the ymbi abundance people. They

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Speaker 3: want us all to live in twelve hundred squad twelve

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Speaker 3: hundred square foot glass boxes that are run by developers.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm good with that, actually, you know so, I

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Speaker 3: think there's a role for community and all that. Now,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to take it as far as some

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Speaker 3: people do, who every time you want to build something new.

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Speaker 1: They're like, but what about the public parking? I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: shut up, Okay.

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Speaker 3: In my neighborhood, they genuinely put up a they put

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Speaker 3: up a sign that said, if we build a new

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Speaker 3: apartment building, then a nine to one one will get

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Speaker 3: overwhelmed and I'm like, I think that's a problem that

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Speaker 3: we could figure out. You know, nine to one one

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Speaker 3: is not going to get overwhelmed. Just say you don't

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Speaker 3: want more people live in here. That's you can say it. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we can all say it. Let's just not make up

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Speaker 3: fake numbers. And in the current environment, no sorry, like

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Speaker 3: just because you own a house, like there's people out

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Speaker 3: of there paying twenty five three thousand dollars a month

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Speaker 3: for studio apartments, like I can't be having this. Like

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Speaker 3: at a certain point, we have to balance this stuff

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Speaker 3: out as a society, so we can be a little

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Speaker 3: bit nimby if you know, if things go too far,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you right, But that's my point is that

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Speaker 3: we can we let's be reasonable. Let's say if rent

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Speaker 3: is at a place where it's going to eat up

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Speaker 3: forty fifty sixty percent of after tax income, then yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, your community aspects are not going to be

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Speaker 3: taken as as seriously, Yeah, if it's twenty and thirty, sure,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about beautification or public spaces or parks. Things

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Speaker 3: are so out of control that you know, we're at

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Speaker 3: a place where the land owning class is so dramatically

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Speaker 3: in power. All they are doing is trying to protect

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Speaker 3: their own assets. So let's put C three up on

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Speaker 3: the screen. For example, Trump says voting housing prices are

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Speaker 3: too high. Trump wants some higher. He said, he wants

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Speaker 3: to drive housing prices up, not down, speaking to the

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Speaker 3: conundrum that has flummexed policymakers for decades. And what they

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Speaker 3: point to is that poll after poll after poll just

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Speaker 3: shows you that people are very upset about the price

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Speaker 3: of housing and specifically interest rates and how much it

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Speaker 3: would take to be even able to enter the door.

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Speaker 3: So to give you a good example of how dramatically

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Speaker 3: things have changed just in the last six years, let's

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Speaker 3: go to the next one. Goldman Saxis ran a new

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Speaker 3: analysis for young married couples considering buying their first home.

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Speaker 3: The average down payment is now seventy percent of annual.

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Speaker 1: House hold income.

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Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, it was fifty eight percent, still way

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Speaker 3: too high, forty five percent in the year two thousand.

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Speaker 1: The first year mortgage.

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Speaker 3: Payment is then about twenty five percent of that annual

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Speaker 3: household income versus eighteen and twenty nineteen, and twenty percent

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. Now keep in mind this is just

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Speaker 3: housing inflation, So your portion of your after tax income

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Speaker 3: having to be spent on food, on healthcare, and let's

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Speaker 3: childcare if you are having a child, is also dramatically inflated,

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Speaker 3: which means that your room and your budget starts to

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Speaker 3: approach is zero, very very very quickly. So those numbers,

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Speaker 3: I think make it all very obvious about what's happening here.

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Speaker 3: Like we have a massive undersupply of houses. And again

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Speaker 3: I'm not one of these people who's like, oh, let's

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Speaker 3: build glass or anything. I think we should probably make

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Speaker 3: it to the FEDS grant huge. They we give huge

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Speaker 3: grants state by state and then the states can figure

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Speaker 3: it out. Texas has, by the way, done a very

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Speaker 3: good job of this. It's not all just glass. If

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Speaker 3: you go down to you know, some of these suburbs

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Speaker 3: or people send me pictures like from Dallas suburbs, these

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Speaker 3: are you know, decent houses, a couple hundred thousand dollars,

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Speaker 3: nothing crazy. It's also you know, something you can actually own,

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Speaker 3: place to park your car, decent lawn, couple of bedrooms.

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Speaker 3: That's all anybody really needs, right and so you can

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Speaker 3: see and that's all. It's like, that's the other thing

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Speaker 3: people are not desiring like multi mc mansions or.

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Speaker 1: Any of that.

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Speaker 3: I really don't think people are being all that unreasonable.

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Speaker 3: The only reason that the McMansions get built because the

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Speaker 3: rich people, the people who buy houses, and the boomers

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Speaker 3: and all these other people. Apparently, even though you have

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Speaker 3: no children at home, they're like, oh, I have to

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Speaker 3: have a seven bedroom house in case my grandchildren come

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Speaker 3: to visit at Christmas. This is the stuff that you

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Speaker 3: hear from this crowd. But currently what we see right

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Speaker 3: now see five for example. Can we put this on

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Speaker 3: the screen? I thought this was a good article just

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Speaker 3: to show the scale of the problem. Experts currently say

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Speaker 3: the US needs between two million to twenty million to fix.

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Speaker 5: The current we've narrowed that down to underscoring the challenge

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Speaker 5: of meaning.

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Speaker 3: So I look because you're you know, like they point

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Speaker 3: to the the Goldman Sax analysis that puts a number

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Speaker 3: three million. Zillo's estimate tops four million, Brookings projects five million,

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Speaker 3: McKenzie says eight million. Meanwhile, congressional Republicans say the shortfall

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Speaker 3: is twenty million, and so economists who contend that there's

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Speaker 3: no and then there are quote economists contend there's no

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Speaker 3: shortage at all, and you know, this is one where

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Speaker 3: we have one hundred and forty six million homes, eight

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Speaker 3: point one million are doubled up households, people sharing space

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Speaker 3: with non relatives, three point four million vacant homes available

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Speaker 3: to rent it buy. This is probably the misallocation stuff,

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Speaker 3: though a lot of that is going to be a

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Speaker 3: more undesirable area, So the desirable areas, high cost of

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Speaker 3: living areas have a massive shortage this. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: it's just one of those where we have to figure

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Speaker 3: out interest rates, affordability and being able to buy housing.

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Speaker 3: Which there's no way the free market can solve this.

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Speaker 3: It will take massive government intervention period, end of story.

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Speaker 3: There's just no getting around it.

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Speaker 2: One of the things they point to in that article too,

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Speaker 2: a part of why they think economists they're making the

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Speaker 2: case that economists sometimes underestimate the housing need is because

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Speaker 2: you have doubled up households, like soar Or is talking about,

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Speaker 2: where the assumption is kind of like, well, if they

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Speaker 2: could afford it, they probably would rather live on their

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Speaker 2: have their own home. Not in all cases, but in

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Speaker 2: many cases they would prefer to have their own space.

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Speaker 2: And then you also have a comparatively high percentage of

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Speaker 2: twenty five to thirty four year olds who continue to

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Speaker 2: live in their parents' home. So, in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: eighteen percent of adults twenty five to thirty four still

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Speaker 2: living in their parents' home. It's compared to eight percent

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies, according to a Pew Research Center report.

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Speaker 2: So when you have that high level of housing costs

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Speaker 2: in housing stress, you're naturally going to see more and

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Speaker 2: more young professionals. I mean, thirty four years old is

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Speaker 2: not old eye, Young thirty four year olds who are

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Speaker 2: still living with mom and dad because that is the

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Speaker 2: best financial option for them and nothing else may be

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Speaker 2: even possible at that phase in their life.

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Speaker 1: Turning thirty four this year, and I already feel old. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree, I agree.

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Speaker 3: Let's go Okay, final thing. You can already guess where

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Speaker 3: I'm going with this. Red state, Blue state. We are

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Speaker 3: united in one goal. Let's put C six up here

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Speaker 3: on the screen. As the world crumbles, as the price

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Speaker 3: of everything skyrockets, what are these people focused on?

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Speaker 1: Governor Greshen Whitmer.

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Speaker 3: With property taxes going up year after year, Michigan seniors

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Speaker 3: deserve stability. They've worked hard and earned the right to

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Speaker 3: relief in their golden years. She continues, that is why

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Speaker 3: I am proposing property tax relief for three hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty five thousand seniors, saving households of an average of

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Speaker 3: three hundred and forty five dollars a year by refunding

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Speaker 3: ten percent of their property tax. That's money back in

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Speaker 3: their pockets to pay bills and to put food on

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Speaker 3: the table.

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Speaker 1: Now, look, three hundred and forty five bucks.

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Speaker 3: Sure, it's that's like one trip to the grocery store,

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Speaker 3: but it's the principle. First of all, the state controller

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Speaker 3: already says you shouldn't do this because you're in shortfall

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Speaker 3: or overall budget. But second, this is ninety million dollars

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Speaker 3: explicitly written in the budget for seniors to make it

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Speaker 3: so that they don't have to pay as much of

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Speaker 3: their property tax. I'm sick of this bullshit.

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Speaker 1: You cut.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen this so many viral tweets.

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Speaker 3: Somebody recently put it up. My dad, who's you know,

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Speaker 3: on only on social Security.

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Speaker 1: He can't afford the property tax payment anymore. It's eight

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Somebody did the math.

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Speaker 3: He's sitting on a one point six million dollar house. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's like, fuck, you actually sell it?

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Speaker 1: How about that?

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Speaker 3: Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You should have

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Speaker 3: planned bender for finance for your retirement. So now if

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Speaker 3: you don't have the money to pay for it, you

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Speaker 3: could sell it to somebody and then not only could

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Speaker 3: you pay it, you could make sure and you could

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Speaker 3: buy yourself a nice little condo in Boca Ratona, Florida,

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Speaker 3: and live very comfortably for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 3: It's like, why are we deluding ourselves into thinking that

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Speaker 3: this is some great crisis?

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Speaker 1: And yet Texas, Michigan, Florida.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you almost every state in the country

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Speaker 3: is moving towards either zero property tax. Zero is the worst,

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Speaker 3: but I mean, or maybe I'm not so sure. Carve

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Speaker 3: out for boomer is also really bad. But Colorado, even

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Speaker 3: that you know the tweet that they were talking about,

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Speaker 3: they have a property tax allocation there specifically already written

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Speaker 3: out for boomers. It's like this, it's literally age discrimination

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Speaker 3: in the opposite direction of where it is needed. And nobody,

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Speaker 3: nobody has the courage to actually speak out and not

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Speaker 3: only defend the mechanism of a property tax, but specifically

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Speaker 3: to talk. And yes, I know it's uncomfortable to say

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Speaker 3: that churn in the housing market is important and good

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Speaker 3: in order to make sure that inventory turns. We know

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Speaker 3: this whenever it comes to retail. We know this whenever

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Speaker 3: it comes to any other business sector. This is the

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Speaker 3: one where we decide that there's an age exemption. And again,

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Speaker 3: it discriminates against the people who aren't even doing anything.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and even I mean it's also it's also

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Speaker 2: class war because if you're giving these benefits to property owners,

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Speaker 2: those are just proparsially going to be better off people

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Speaker 2: than more the renter class.

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Speaker 5: And then what are you doing.

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Speaker 2: That's tax revenue that's not coming in to go to

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Speaker 2: the universally used programs, the school's, the roads, the fire department,

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Speaker 2: the police department, all of those things that you know,

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Speaker 2: the commune and the state has to fund and everybody

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Speaker 2: benefits from. So you know, it's it's yeah, it's and

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Speaker 2: it goes back to Trump's view, his NIMBI view of

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Speaker 2: like we got to raise the housing prices. The reason

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Speaker 2: that politicians go in this direction is not because this

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Speaker 2: is like the best use of money or is going

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Speaker 2: to benefit the most people.

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Speaker 5: Or the most advantageous. It has nothing to do with that.

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Speaker 2: It's because this group of people property own home owning

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Speaker 2: boomers are very, very politically powerful. They are important to

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Speaker 2: the base of both parties, and so they get super served.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And apparently, you know, this is another

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Speaker 3: problem for Michigan. I was talking to somebody, I go, dude,

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Speaker 3: what's going on here? Like, why is Whitmer doing this?

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Speaker 3: They go, oh, man, Michigan actually has a very elderly population. Well,

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Speaker 3: guess what, guys, this causes brain drain. So if you

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Speaker 3: don't have a decent economy or if you have something

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Speaker 3: that's coninue to go down, the state is working largely

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Speaker 3: on behalf.

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Speaker 1: Let's say, of the elderly property owning class, what are

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Speaker 1: what are the young people going to do?

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Speaker 3: They're gonna move, They're going to leave, and then your

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Speaker 3: economy is going to continue to dwindle.

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Speaker 2: It's like, well, especial drobbing, like the school system exactly

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Speaker 2: to give boomer property homeowners shacksbury.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And so this is the world Like, this

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Speaker 3: is not a way to protect your state. If anything,

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Speaker 3: you're setting yourself up for failure and making sure that

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Speaker 3: you're going to remain non competitive, but look, this are

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Speaker 3: the people work for and we are doomed to this

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Speaker 3: for a while. All right, let's get to the Olympics,

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 2: So, continuing this week of breaking points, sports coverage had

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Speaker 2: to take a look at what was happening at the Olympics.

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Speaker 2: IRE found that really funny because it's definitely not our

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Speaker 2: specialty anyway. You've had a bunch of American Olympic athletes

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Speaker 2: who have been speaking out in relatively frankly mild ways,

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Speaker 2: clearly uncomfortable with a lot of what is going on

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Speaker 2: with the Trump administration, specifically probably with regard to Ice.

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to read into a lot of

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Speaker 2: these comments. The person who could kicked this off is

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Speaker 2: a skier named Hunter has But there were some other

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Speaker 2: athletes that had follow on comments when they were asked

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Speaker 2: about it. Let's go ahead and take a listen to

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Speaker 2: some of those comments.

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Speaker 6: It brings up makes emotions to represent the US right now,

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Speaker 6: I think it's a little hard. There's obviously a lot

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Speaker 6: going on that I'm not the biggest fan of, and

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Speaker 6: I think a lot of people aren't. If it aligns

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Speaker 6: with my moral values, I feel like I'm representing it.

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Speaker 6: Just because I'm wearing the flag doesn't mean I represent

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Speaker 6: everything that's going on in the US.

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Speaker 7: It's been a hard time for the community overall under

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Speaker 7: this administration. It isn't the first time that we've had

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Speaker 7: to come together as a community and try and fight

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Speaker 7: for our human rights, and now especially it's not just

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Speaker 7: affecting the queer community, but many other communities. I know

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Speaker 7: that a lot of people say, you're just an athlete,

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Speaker 7: like stick to your job, shut up about politics, but

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Speaker 7: politics affect us all. It is something that I will

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Speaker 7: not just be quiet about because it is something that

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Speaker 7: affects us in our everyday lives.

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Speaker 8: I feel heartbroken about what's happened in the United States

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Speaker 8: when it you know, I'm pretty sure sure you're referencing

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Speaker 8: Ice and some of the protests and things like that.

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Speaker 8: I think that as a country, we need to focus

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Speaker 8: on respecting everybody's rights and making sure that we're treating

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Speaker 8: our citizens as well as anybody with love and respect.

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Speaker 8: And I hope that when people look at athletes compete

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Speaker 8: in the Olympics, they realize that that's the America that

437
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 8: we're trying to represent.

438
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 9: The parents being immigrants. This one definitely heads pretty close

439
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 9: to close to home. And I think in moments like these,

440
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 9: it is really important for us to unite and kind

441
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 9: of stand up for one another for all that's going on.

442
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 9: And I think that I'm really proud to represent the

443
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 9: United States. It's the US has given my family and

444
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 9: I so much opportunity. But I also think that we

445
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 9: are allowed to voice our opinions on what's going on.

446
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 2: All right, so relatively, in my opinion, mild comments in

447
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: any case, Q the total freak own from everybody from

448
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 2: the President on down on the on the right, We've

449
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: got D three. You can put Trump's truth social up

450
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: on the screen here. In response, I think specifically to

451
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 2: Hunter Hess, he says US Olympics gier Hunter hes a

452
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: real loser, says he doesn't represent his country in the

453
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: current Winter Olympics. If that's the case, he shouldn't have

454
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: tried down for the team, and it's too bad.

455
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 5: He's on it very hard. You root for someone like this.

456
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 5: Make America Great Again voice is getting better.

457
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 2: My Trump voice is an impression of Kyle doing his

458
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: impression of Trump. So it's it's not great, But you know,

459
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: I feel like when you're reading his words, you kind

460
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: of got to give it.

461
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 5: A little bit of the trump y ibor I like

462
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 5: it in any case.

463
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: Senator Rick Scott weighed in, this is d zero guys

464
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: with a similar sentiment saying they should be pulled from

465
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: the team. How dare they speak against the great us

466
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 2: of a let's listen to that one.

467
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 10: Any person who goes the Olympics to represent the United

468
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 10: States and then says they don't want to represent the

469
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 10: United States should be immediately stripped of the Olympic niform.

470
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 2: Immediately stripped of the Olympic uniform. And I mean, my

471
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 2: commentary on this is very obvious, Sager, like, one of

472
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 2: the great things about the United States America you have

473
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: free speech, and just because you criticize the government, it's

474
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 2: giving me like War on Terror flashbacks, where like if

475
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: you don't love what George W.

476
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 5: Bush is, you hate our troops, you hate America, and

477
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, you're not.

478
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 2: A patriot like you're supposed to be able to be

479
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: critical of the government. That's fine, that doesn't mean you

480
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: hate the country and you don't want to represent the country.

481
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 2: And then the other piece that like, I don't know

482
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: is sort of driving me crazy, is who is stripping

483
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: It's not like the government even supports them to go

484
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: to the Olympics. I'll get to that, right, So, like,

485
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: who is stripping them of their ability to be there

486
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: and compete? The whole thing is absurd. It's a total

487
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 2: freak ount. It reminds me of the Super Bowl freak ount,

488
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 2: Like complete snowflake, fake outrage behavior here from the right.

489
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting.

490
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 3: I feel very similarly, and I feel actually very similar

491
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 3: to the Super Bowl halftime show. It reminds me of

492
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: a conversation which I once had. I won't name the government,

493
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 3: but I once had a very interesting dinner with a

494
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: very senior government official of a foreign country, and this

495
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 3: country was pursuing a lot of censorship against critics, and

496
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 3: they were asking me what I thought about it, and

497
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: I said, well, with great respect, great countries don't care

498
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 3: what other people have to say. Great countries are confident

499
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: in who they are enough to the point where is

500
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: anyone shocked that an upper middle class white skier is

501
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: a lib Like that's the least shocking thing of literally

502
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 3: of all time. That would be like if I told

503
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: you your average NFL athlete is like a mid tier

504
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk conservative conservative. Well, well yeah, the white well

505
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 3: actually a lot of the black ones too, actually got

506
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: it shockingly enough. But anyway, my point is just like, wow,

507
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: what an absolute shocker.

508
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't know why this.

509
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: Really does I don't know why this this really does

510
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: not offend me at all. I mean, I get where

511
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 3: some people are coming from. There is a liberal tendency

512
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: to pretend like you're James Baldwin and be like, I

513
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 3: love my country so much.

514
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to criticize it.

515
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: It's like, no, you actually hate like a very large

516
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 3: part of the entire country and don't really believe in

517
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: many of the founding ethos or believe in its greatness.

518
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 3: So I understand where many right wingers are coming from,

519
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 3: because there is a general tendency of a lot of

520
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: left wingers who owed that belief I think pretty structurally

521
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: and fundamentally. I'll give you an example. Yeah, because this

522
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 3: is also tied into the press. The press loves this shit.

523
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: By the way, a lot of the athletes have even complained,

524
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 3: They're like, we didn't come here to talk about this,

525
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: you asked us, and we're asking we're giving you our opinion,

526
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 3: does the press care. For example, Eileen Gou, who is

527
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 3: an American born who's competing for the Chinese. She's a

528
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: trader in my opinion, Nobody asked her shit about what's.

529
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: Going on with Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong.

530
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: Because you know why, she would literally lose, Like their

531
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 3: government actually does control what they do. That's why I

532
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 3: think we're better than the Chinese system. But there is

533
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: a structural disadvantage with our press where nobody apparently asked that.

534
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, oh, hey, you're literally a trader to the

535
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 3: the United States and you're competing for a foreign government,

536
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: and even though you've benefited and are funded like millions

537
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 3: of dollars here, and we're all just okay with that.

538
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: So that's like a press criticism and not of the

539
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: athletes themselves. There's also the Olympics criticism here, where again

540
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 3: I actually was not even aware of this, So can

541
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 3: we put up this?

542
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: Where is it? D six?

543
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 3: I didn't even know that we don't fund our Olympics,

544
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: So then a lot of this is actually moved Apparently

545
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 3: again I'm ignorant. It is fully funded by corporate sponsorships

546
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: and private donations. So irl then yeah, they literally can't

547
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: say whatever they want. Okay, And apparently I was the

548
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 3: only fool who wasn't belief, who was under the belief

549
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 3: that the government had some role in Team USA.

550
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: I guess we just adopt Team USA. But it becomes

551
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: its own thing.

552
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: So obviously we should have no say over what these

553
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: athletes are saying, especially if they're especially if they're not

554
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: funded or supported by the taxpayer.

555
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: In any way.

556
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not going to sit here and say, let's

557
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: just say, for example, because there's been a lot of discourse,

558
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, they that they're just upset for love

559
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 3: and everybody knows what they're talking about. If in June

560
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, I said all lives matter, you know

561
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, So like there's let's not

562
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: pretend that there isn't subtext there. Oh, how could you

563
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 3: disagree with that? You know exactly what the fuck I'm

564
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: trying to say. So, like, let's not bullshit about.

565
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: The actual Yeah, there's definitely a political context.

566
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: That's what this is about.

567
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: Although it is I mean, the things they're saying are

568
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: it's funny always funny to me how athletes and celebrities

569
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: are judged by this different standard where they'll say like

570
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: the most mild thing possible, and it's like, oh my god, right,

571
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: and that's sort of how I feel about this. They're like, yeah,

572
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: I'm not really that comfortable with everything that's going on,

573
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: and you know, I think we should have compassion for

574
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: each other.

575
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 5: And it's like, oh, this is crazy.

576
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 3: That they know what that means, like all lives, you

577
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: know what happens.

578
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: I get what you're saying. There's obviously political context there.

579
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we talked about with Bad Bunny too.

580
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: Rite sure his performance was obviously political. There's no doubt

581
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: that it's political. The other thing that I would say, though,

582
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: to your point about like, oh, you know, it's no

583
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: surprise that upper middle class or upper class white Libs

584
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: are critical of the Trump administration.

585
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 5: That's true.

586
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: But I think what is noteworthy is Number one, just

587
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: the sheer number of them who are saying adding the

588
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: body things the press. So many of the like you know,

589
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 2: the Australian, but none of the Americans there said ship

590
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: about ship, right, So the number of them that are

591
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: saying anything to me is uh, noteworthy number two. Look,

592
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: we look at the polling, like, it's not just white

593
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: Libs who feel this way. I mean, this is an

594
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: overwhelming sentiment among Americans, you know, outside of like hardcore MAGA,

595
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: there's a lot and even there.

596
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 5: New York Times just did a big.

597
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: You know, focus group with a bunch of the Trump

598
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: voters that they've stayed in touch with, and a number

599
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: of them are like, I'm not really I feel like

600
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: there's an assault on the Second Amendment going on. I

601
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: feel like there's a solo First Amendment going on. I

602
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 2: support the idea of getting immigrants out, but I'm not

603
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: sure how things are going. So, you know, I also

604
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: don't want to pretend like, yes, these are mostly like

605
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 2: white upper class or upper middle class people who are

606
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: saying this, But their sentiment is also very reflective of

607
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: what's going on in the country. And I think that's

608
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: part of why we can put some of the D four,

609
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: we can put some of the different reactions up on

610
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 2: the screen here, just to get a sense. We've got

611
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: Megan Kelly another turncoat to root against, We've got I

612
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 2: think we've got Byron Donald's here. You chose to wear

613
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: our flag. You chose to repros in our country. That's

614
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: too hard for you. Go home, blah blah blah. You

615
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: can continue rolling them here. But you know, I think

616
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: part of why you are having this like meltdown, freak

617
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,239
Speaker 2: count moment with regard to the super Bowl and with

618
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: regard to this is because there is a sense of

619
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: sort of fragility where if you felt very confident, like

620
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: Maggie's got the vibes and we're winning and everybody loves us,

621
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: et cetera, it'd be easier just to kind of brush.

622
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: The point, yeah, whatever, a weakness is that if you're

623
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: that's right, If you're so butt hurt about some skier

624
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: who says I'm semi conflicted about wearing the flag like

625
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 3: you have, you're beyond loss.

626
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: Okay, you have no idea what you are in.

627
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: For, And I mean that's kind of the way I'm

628
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: operating from is that you can see very clearly that

629
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 3: there is a massive political backlash and that this kind

630
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: of behavior is that of a losing of a movement,

631
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: and not only losing movement culturally, which is somehow downward

632
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: after a year ago being in a like a generally

633
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: pretty like heights literally right, and it was like a

634
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: total cultural revolution. Fumbling the bag on that one has

635
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 3: got to be well studied in the history books.

636
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: But that's that was my point.

637
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: Is when I when I talked to that foreign official

638
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: and they were defending this, that you don't understand our politics,

639
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: and I said, no, I do.

640
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: I just think you're acting like a little bit.

641
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: Basically, I was like, I think that you're very not

642
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: I said, you're very You're not confident in who you are,

643
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: and your lack of confidence is coming across to me

644
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: and to the entire world. It's so fragile that you

645
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: can't allow any criticism. Yeah, that's basically how I feel

646
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: about these people. I don't need to agree with my

647
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: athletes about anything. I think it's great every single one

648
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: of them wins a gold medal.

649
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: That is a Is that a nuanced view? Right? At

650
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: the same time, I do recognize that.

651
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: There is a very annoying tendency of the modern left

652
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: to where only patriotism is when you are critical of it,

653
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: is that everything must be couched in nuance?

654
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: Is that?

655
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: And while look blind, patriotism has plenty of its own problems. Again,

656
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: just like if with all lives matter, everyone knows exactly

657
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. Yeah, sixteen nineteen Project DEI is

658
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: a core basis.

659
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: I don't even know that you disagree with the sentiments

660
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: or expressed. What do you mean you what do you

661
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: disagree with anything they say?

662
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 7: Though?

663
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: Well, if you were to ask me what makes me

664
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: not proud to be an American? Sure that I stuff

665
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: would definitely be part of it. I would talk to

666
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: let's much more of the structural, degenerate parts of our society, right,

667
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: so I could give you a great I.

668
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: Mean, I'm not proud to be I'm just saying, like,

669
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 2: you don't even really disagree with what they're saying.

670
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 5: I mean, and that is it?

671
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 10: That is you mean?

672
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: I mean any of this? Do you disagree with any

673
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: of the sentiments that they're expressing you?

674
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 5: And they're pretty like mild Like the gay.

675
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually, I forgot to get to that one, because

676
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: the idea that this is some horrible time for gay

677
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: people is literally bullshit. Okay, so everybody knows what she's

678
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 3: trying to say, which is about trans people and in

679
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: particular trans children. And no, I'm not going to cry

680
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: tears because nine year olds can't get puberty blockers. So

681
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: let's be very clear about what that one is saying.

682
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: So that was the only one, as you could tell,

683
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: that's the only one that actually made me.

684
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Mad, because it's ridiculous.

685
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: It's completely ridiculous that will gay people are being hunted

686
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: in the streets.

687
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 5: But there's they've definitely been made a target. Both people. Yeah,

688
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 5: both those were absolutely.

689
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: Both rhetorically and through and through legislation. There's certainly been

690
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: escapegoating of trans people in particular.

691
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: But gay people, I mean, they're are moving the goal post.

692
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: There's plenty of an attempt to roll you actually brought

693
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: a trust whatever there's that's what hold back gay marriage.

694
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 5: There's going to overturn thing.

695
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: It's not in any case, in any case. With the

696
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: Ice commentary, I don't even think you disagree with their sentiment.

697
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: But my you know, my bottom line here is for

698
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: all the people who are like, I'm going to root

699
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: against them because I disagree with their political take. Like

700
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: to me, that feels an American like that you have

701
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: to agree with every political sentiment that is expressed with someone.

702
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: To test the moral purity.

703
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: Let's say that there are many liberal chiefs fans who

704
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: root against Harrison, Butker who is massively pro life, who

705
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: stands with Trump. Every time that guy misses a field goal,

706
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: that lives cheer across.

707
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 5: But that's different than Team USA.

708
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you, but that's that's like, you know,

709
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: there not to cheer for that team.

710
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: But the chiefs fans I have seen who are like,

711
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: fuck Harrison Bucker because of his political beliefs. Again, is

712
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: there going to be any real consistency on behalf of

713
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: the If we had a deeply conservative Olympian who was like,

714
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: I love Trump and I support Ice, everyone will be

715
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: rooting against him. Let's not lie, all right, Like, let's

716
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: be very honest about how everybody would also react.

717
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to grant someone.

718
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: But what I wish, but I would not say I

719
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: would not say that that person should be like they

720
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: shouldn't be allowed to compete and they should be stripped

721
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: of their like Olympic status.

722
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 3: Now currently, I would hope that maybe that that would

723
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: that that would hold up. Again, it's unfalsifiable, I don't know,

724
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: but it's one of those where when I look at

725
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: this entire thing, I see weakness from bad Bunny to

726
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: the way that they have reacted, by the way that's

727
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: the other problem. It's not like Hunter hess was like

728
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: he didn't say anything all that provocative. He like you

729
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: just said he was trying to talk frankly in a

730
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: very like mealy mouthed way and trying to like give

731
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: a bar. He's like, well, should be comfortable acknowledge a

732
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 3: full blown meltdown over something like that, Like you look

733
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: like a little bitch, and like that's generally how look.

734
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 3: I see deep weakness in the way that people have

735
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 3: reacted to this. I also think that any purity test

736
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: for athletes, like yeah, I can sit here and criticize

737
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: Eileen Goo, but you know, I mean, what's so different

738
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: if our lawmakers, like if she can't say anything about

739
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: Jimmy Lai and we can, you know, our athletes are

740
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: going to say something and then lawmakers all the way

741
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: up to the top or say they should be removed.

742
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: I mean, what, you know, we don't have a lot

743
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: of standards like here to be sitting on. In fact,

744
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: that's one of the often one of the one of

745
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: the conservative critiques. You don't go on foreign soil to

746
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 3: trash America and that America's held to a higher standard,

747
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: which it obviously is. No one's asking Iranian Olympics how

748
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: they feel about the protests. If they say something, they'll

749
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: be killed, you know. If you ask somebody from if

750
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: you ask somebody from a lot of these authoritarian countries

751
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 3: how they feel, and they express a distant in view.

752
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: Remember North Korea and their whole soccer team situation, like

753
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 3: they had a real problem if you get embarrassed on

754
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: the world stage. So there are real examples where it's

755
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: actually disastrous to speak out. If anything, it's kind of

756
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: a privilege of the United States where the worst you're

757
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: going to get is a bad tweet from the government.

758
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: They can't really do anything to.

759
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean they did like arrest people for

760
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: writing op eds.

761
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 5: But I don't think that these.

762
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: I don't think the people they are in danger of.

763
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:20,959
Speaker 2: I don't think they're in danger.

764
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: Hunter, he is not going to be jailed, killed.

765
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 3: He'll probably make a shitload of money off of sponsorships

766
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 3: and he'll be fine and most of the you know,

767
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 3: I mean literally, we are a country which allows traders

768
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 3: to go and represent a four compete for a foreign government,

769
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: and then we still allow her back in and massively

770
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 3: and richer. Apparently everybody's like fine with that. I think

771
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: that's bullshit.

772
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: By the way, here's the other thing is Trump is

773
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: extremely critical of the US all the time. I am too,

774
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: extremely critical of the US all the time, and on

775
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: foreign's oil and all of those things. And it's part

776
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: of the reason why he was appealing to begin with,

777
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: because he was willing to say like, hey, things are

778
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: not got you know, American carnage, Like things are not

779
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: going well here.

780
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 5: So in any case, that's a freaga out. There's one

781
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 5: last piece.

782
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 2: Dimension here, which is that the US made the decision

783
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: to send some ice agents to the Winter Olympics is

784
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: five to supposedly provide security. Like I don't know why

785
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: you would choose ice agents. It's not really what they're

786
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: meant to be doing. But there have been huge protests

787
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: in Italy over the presence of these ice agents. There

788
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: have been you know, the protests aren't just about that,

789
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: but that's part of what is fueling that. So you

790
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: know this own uh, I think in this context to

791
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: your point, soccer political game being played here from the

792
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: from the.

793
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: Trumpentially something Italians worry about your own fucking country, Like

794
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, like this annoys the crap.

795
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: But now this is in their country.

796
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 8: But.

797
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: Our politics is so annoying. My wife is abroad right now.

798
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 3: The amount that these foreigners pay it like.

799
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: I totally disagree with this because I know soccer, we

800
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: have so much impact on the whole world. Like of course,

801
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: of course people around the globe care about what happened.

802
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: I don't want to listen to these intellient You guys

803
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: are literally your GDP is nothing.

804
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: You're you make that no?

805
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: I mean again, think of the way you like much

806
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: this country, threatening Greenland and whatever like. Of course they

807
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: have to pay attention to our politics. Can give them

808
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: no other choice.

809
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: But you know, protesting around ice like Jesus Christ, like

810
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 3: you people have so many bigger structural issues. If anything,

811
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: the reason you're in that position is because you're so

812
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 3: obsessed with us as the global superpower, trying to become yourself.

813
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: Well within their rights to protest Trump secret police coming

814
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 2: to your country and you know, unaccountable question of rights, No,

815
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: you know, total impunity, secret police coming to your country.

816
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: Which by resembles which is what does that police force resemble?

817
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: Oh right, European police forces which again no due process,

818
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: no rights, no First Amendment.

819
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: Shut the fuck up. If you live over there.

820
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: You people literally basically already live in the exact stating system,

821
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 3: and they're trying to criticize us.

822
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, like, I'm.

823
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 5: Not going maybe they're.

824
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: I don't want any No, they're not. They live, they

825
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: love it, they love their censorship regime. These these are

826
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 3: the biggest hypocrites on the planet. So that's the one

827
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: thing I will I will stand for my countrymen who

828
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: criticize us.

829
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: I will not stand for these Europeans.

830
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: When you send ice to a foreign country, the people

831
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: in that country are allowed to protest, Sure.

832
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: They get protest, but you basically live under this the

833
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: same occupied regime, except you have no due process, no

834
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: system to actually do anything about that.

835
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: Most of the murdering Italians in the streets.

836
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: Listen, they once did. All right, where do you think

837
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: it all originates?

838
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in the modern era, do we have the

839
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: level of age to stand from the Italian police as

840
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 2: we do?

841
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 3: Do you really think they have a moral like to

842
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: stand on in terms of we're talking about comparing we're

843
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: talking full history.

844
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah we should.

845
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: Okay, they have to be invented in period. They have

846
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: to constantly atone for the sins.

847
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 5: Of their grandfathers. Okay, all right, let's talk about slavery.

848
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: Are fine. I've told you I've been toying with the

849
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: idea of jer.

850
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 5: You're sixteen, nineteen pilled now, it's.

851
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 3: Not that I've been toying with the idea of of

852
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 3: like collective guilt in an interesting way, which I'm sure people.

853
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 5: Will get all Panna Jones on first with you. People

854
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 5: will get Ebram x Kenny on to talk with you.

855
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 5: I like you see that over.

856
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 3: Last, I see it differently, and then that's that's the

857
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: whole point. But that's that's a different conversation.

858
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: Let's find some common ground on hatred of our AI overlords.

859
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: Here horrifying story from Reuters, and kudos to them for

860
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: doing the digging into this.

861
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 5: So they say, as AI.

862
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: Enters, the operating room reports a rise of botch surgeries

863
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 2: and misidentified body parts. So the background here is that

864
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 2: obviously you have AI now is the new hot way

865
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: to grow your company, including medical device companies. So you

866
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 2: have companies trying to push these devices into the market.

867
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 2: You have an FDA that has been degraded drastically by DOGE,

868
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: and patients now basically being used as guinea pigs. So

869
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: let me give you some of the specifics here from

870
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: this article. Let's put this first piece up on the screen.

871
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: They found that at least ten people were injured between

872
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: late twenty twenty one and November twenty twenty five, according

873
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: to reports, most allegedly involved errors in which the True

874
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: Diagnavigation system misinformed surgeons about the location of their instruments

875
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: while they were using them inside patients' heads during operations. Obviously,

876
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 2: the company denies any wrongdoing. Put the next one up

877
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: on the screen here, they say cerebrospinal fluid reportedly leaked

878
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: from one patient's nose. In another reported case, a surgeon

879
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: mistakenly punctured the base of a patient's skull. Into other cases,

880
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: patients each allegedly suffered strokes after a major artery was

881
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: accidentally injured. But the next one up on the screen

882
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: received reports involving dozens of other AI enhanced devices, including

883
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: a heart monitor said to have overlooked abnormal heart beats

884
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: and an ultrasound device that allegedly misidentified fetal body parts.

885
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: So in one of the examples that they identified here,

886
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 2: first of all, the doctor had a consulting contract with

887
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 2: the company that makes this device, so you inherently have

888
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 2: questions about a conflict of interest in the doctor choosing

889
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: to use this technology. To start with, what they talk

890
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: about here is the patient was being treated for chronic sinociitis.

891
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: The procedure involves it's a relatively non invasive procedure, should

892
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: be sort of a cut and dry, relatively straightforward. They

893
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 2: inflate a balloon inside your sinus cavity to create additional space.

894
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 5: But the allegation is that.

895
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: This technology, because it did not properly inform the surgeon

896
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: where their medical instruments were, that they accidentally nicked an

897
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: artery that goes to the brain, caused a stroke, and

898
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: there were a couple strokes that they identified because that

899
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: they're attributing to this technology. Again, the company to denies

900
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: that it is ultimately their fault. But you know, to me, Soccer,

901
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: the bigger story is we have put E five up

902
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: on the screen. We had this doze assault on the FDA.

903
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: Some of the I remembers talking about this at the time.

904
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: About fifteen of the forty AI scientists in the special

905
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: unit that had been spent up in the FDA to

906
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: evaluate exactly these types of devices were laid off or

907
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: opted to go another unit. The crafted policy on devices

908
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 2: using AI. The Digital Health Center of Excellence loss about

909
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: a third of its staff around thirty So they are overwhelmed.

910
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: And what the device makers try to do in order

911
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: to avoid like a lengthy evaluation process is they'll say, oh,

912
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: this is just like this other device that's already on

913
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: the market, We've just updated it.

914
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 5: But the update may be.

915
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 2: Completely changing the way the device works and implementing AI,

916
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: whereas the device previously did not have that. And so

917
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: a lot of these devices are sort of getting approved

918
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: with relatively minimal scrutiny, and all of this is being

919
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: done at an FDA that's completely overwhelmed.

920
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not only regulatory, it is really just like

921
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: the runaway nature of the way that these people are

922
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 3: rulling stuff out. And you know, you pointed out this

923
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: these concrete ones, but just at a very basic level.

924
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: Remember the promise here was they were going to cure cancer.

925
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 3: That was the promise. And by the way, if anyone's

926
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: watching the pit, there's a good there's a good plotline

927
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: currently of a doctor who's pushing generative AI, which immediately

928
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: runs into problems in the actual er. I thought it

929
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: was a good like artistic representation of some of the

930
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 3: way that this is currently already happening in medicine. Let's

931
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 3: put E six up here on the screen. I love

932
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: this piece, which was this author. Let chatchebt analyze a

933
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 3: decade of Apple Watch data. Then called his doctor, said,

934
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: Chattabt says it can now answer personal questions about your

935
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 3: help and fitness trackers. The new chapter do You Help

936
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: says it can help you understand patterns over time, not

937
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: just moments of illness.

938
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: So with my ten.

939
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 3: Years of Apple Watch data, I uploaded it and asked

940
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 3: the grade. Asked the bot to grade my cardiac health.

941
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: It gave me an F.

942
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: I freaked out and went for a run. I sent

943
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: the report to my actual doctor.

944
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: Am I an F?

945
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 3: My doctor said no, In fact, I am at such

946
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: low risk for a heart attack my insurance probably would

947
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 3: not even pay for an extra cardiovascular fitness test to

948
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 3: prove that the artificial intelligence is wrong. I then showed

949
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 3: the results to a renowned cardiologist and he said, quote,

950
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 3: it's baseless. This is not ready for any medical advice period.

951
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: So there you go.

952
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: In terms of what our initial diagnoses and all of

953
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: that are well and he.

954
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 5: Would keep asking it.

955
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: You go back and be like, okay, evaluate it now,

956
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, you get a B. Evaluate it, now,

957
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: you get a D. Evaluate it, now, you get an F.

958
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: Like it was the same data, asking the exact same question.

959
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: Getting everything from a B to an F. I believe

960
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 2: was the range.

961
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think we needed stuff to

962
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: be banned.

963
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: Like I really have come around to much more ludite

964
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: v you where any image generation ban it? What social

965
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: benefit could come from that? Whenever it comes to medicine,

966
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 3: you've got to prove it before.

967
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: You can use it.

968
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: Like that's one of those where I'm going to treat

969
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: it like a drug trial, which I know that everybody

970
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: you know, there's pharma and all this has criticizes it,

971
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: and fine, I agree, if anything, it's probably too corrupt

972
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 3: and not more you know, available for scrutiny. But I

973
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: think it's got to be drug trial related where unless

974
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: you can until you can prove with explicit patient consent

975
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: and everything that over a long period that you've worked

976
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 3: out all the kinks that you've you know, made and

977
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: redone developments and triple quadruple tested it, it should not

978
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: be able to be used in the format that we're

979
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: currently looking at, because you know, you're playing with people's

980
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 3: lives here, and I'm somewhat sympathetic, like, you know, there's

981
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: a ton of human error too.

982
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: I recently saw this thing.

983
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 3: There's a new study that when cardiologists conferences are happening

984
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 3: and you go into the hospital, that you are more

985
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 3: likely to live. And the reason why is that the

986
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: cardiologists are the people who are like approaching you in

987
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 3: the car the senior cardiologist is out of town.

988
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: Is because they do things.

989
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 3: Kind of the old way, and that the newer doctors

990
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 3: will do something it's either in the new way or

991
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: they won't apply like the stuff that's more routine. And

992
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow, well that's a real argument

993
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: for disruption and all of that intical education, and that

994
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: definitely is something that's like a product of human error.

995
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: But I don't think that this is the answer. You

996
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: need a more rigorous culture or something.

997
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: I missed when I was I missed when I was

998
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: just enthusiastic about new technological development, Like I miss that.

999
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: And the reason that I don't have that now is

1000
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: not because I don't think that the AI development has promised.

1001
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: I do think it has potential and promise to improve

1002
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: people's lives. It's because we don't have a political system

1003
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: that is going to do anything other than, like, you know,

1004
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: use it to further and misery, to extract profits and

1005
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: you know, funnel power and wealth to the top. So

1006
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: for me, it's obviously there's serious technological issues and questions,

1007
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: et cetera that we talk about on this show, But

1008
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: the bigger problem for me is a political problem. It's

1009
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: an ownership problem as well, because if you have this technology,

1010
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 2: which is if it's nearly as powerful as they're projecting,

1011
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: in the hands of a few, that is inherently an issue.

1012
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: But to that point of the political problem, put the

1013
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: E seven B up on the screen. I mean, this

1014
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: is just like Lotus Health. This company has just raised

1015
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: thirty five million dollars for an AI doctor that will

1016
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 2: see patients for free.

1017
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 5: And the way they're pitching.

1018
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: This is basically like, look, you can get your enter

1019
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: your information, our AI doctor will diagnose you, it can

1020
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: write prescriptions, et cetera. And at the very end, we're

1021
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: gonna have a real doctor come in and just make

1022
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: sure that it's okay. So it's not completely, you know,

1023
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 2: free of doctors. And then you ask, okay, well what's

1024
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 2: the profit model, And of course what they're looking at

1025
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 2: right now they're saying, oh, we're not going to worry

1026
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: about that. But what they're looking at is paid sponsorships.

1027
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: So you're going to be I mean, we already have

1028
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: this system where pharmaceutical big Pharma CA and averdel oh

1029
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: ask your doctor blah blah blah blah. Now we're talking

1030
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: not integrating that directly into the medical care that you're

1031
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: receiving from.

1032
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 5: An AI doctor. And no one would want this.

1033
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: If we had a healthcare of free healthcare like the

1034
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: rest of the developed world, this would not be money day,

1035
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: it would not be appealing, et cetera. But because we

1036
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 2: have this screwed up political system, screwed up healthcare system,

1037
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: you know, I can absolutely see that I understand why

1038
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: they're able to raise thirty five million dollars where I

1039
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: can see why this could get traction because if you

1040
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: have no other alternative, then yeah, you're going to go

1041
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 2: to the AI doctor and watch the pharma ads and

1042
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, hope that cross your fingers and hope it

1043
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: works out.

1044
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I think very very true all right, thank

1045
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Let's

1046
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: get to our guests. Who's going to talk about Sudan.

1047
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 2: So, as you know, on the show, we've been covering

1048
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: the war in Sudan, which is both a civil war

1049
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: spilling into a regional war. It is a proxy war,

1050
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: and it is also creating the worst humanitarian crisis on

1051
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: the entire planet. Our next guest has been focused on

1052
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 2: that aspect, in particular, Nathaniel Raymond as the executive director

1053
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: of the Humanitarian Research Lab at Yale School of Public Health,

1054
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 2: and he joins us, now, welcome, so great to have you.

1055
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: It's good to be here. Thank you.

1056
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So you're out with this new report.

1057
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 2: Let's put f two up on the screen here, guys,

1058
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: about the extensive use of what are called suicide drones.

1059
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: You said you've identified fifty one suicide drones loitering munitions

1060
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: at a new launch point. Could you break down the

1061
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 2: research that you have discovered here and why this is

1062
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 2: significant to the current state of the war in Sudan.

1063
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 11: So, the warren Sudan is basically a fight between the

1064
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 11: Sudan armed forces, the Army of Sudan, and a paramilitary

1065
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 11: group called the Rapid Support Forces, which is basically an

1066
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 11: ethnic militia from the western part of the country in Darfur,

1067
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 11: and the United Arab Emirates, according to US intelligence, as

1068
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 11: reported by The Wall Street Journal, has been arming the

1069
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 11: Rapids of Forces, especially with these what's called suicide drones

1070
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 11: or loitering munitions, which are Shaheed's style delta wing, meaning

1071
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 11: that they look like a v and you fire them

1072
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 11: from a launcher like a slingshot, and they can go

1073
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 11: between twelve to seventeen hundred kilometers and they blow up

1074
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 11: on target. And right now, the Rapid Support Forces have

1075
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 11: been using them to harass civilians, including a World Food

1076
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 11: Program convoy, a market, and hospitals just in recent days.

1077
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: So where does the United States fit into all this, Well,

1078
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: that's a heck of a question.

1079
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 11: The United States has been negotiating as part of what's

1080
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 11: called the Quad a supposed humanitarian truce, but the fact

1081
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 11: of the matter is that neither side has fully agreed

1082
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 11: to the humanitarian truce. And at this point, there's been

1083
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 11: a stunning reversal of fortune in the past three weeks

1084
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 11: where Sudan arm forces really for the first time since

1085
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 11: they retook the capital, has broken out of being stuck

1086
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 11: in what we call a turtle a siege posture in

1087
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 11: several cities, and they're now attacking the rapid support forces,

1088
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 11: meaning that they have no reason to agree to a

1089
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 11: deal right now when they are beginning to take the advantage.

1090
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and put F one up on the screen.

1091
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: This is in reference to that attack on the World

1092
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 2: Food Program AID convoy that.

1093
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 5: You were discussing.

1094
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: So we have a statement here from the US Embassy

1095
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: in Khartoum saying the US condemns the latest drone attack

1096
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: that targeted a convoy of the World Food Program in

1097
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: North Courtavan, which was transporting food supplies to people suffering

1098
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: from famine, and resulted in the killing of one person

1099
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: and the injury of many others. This comes to the

1100
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: wake of an attack that occurred earlier this week in

1101
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: Blue Nile State resulted in the injury of one World

1102
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: Food Program employee. The destruction of food intended for those

1103
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: in need and the killing of humanitarian workers is utterly reprehensible.

1104
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 2: The Trump administration will never tolerate the struction of lives or.

1105
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 5: Of US funded aid.

1106
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 2: We demand accountability, and we extend our deepest contoleances to

1107
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: all those affected by these unjustified.

1108
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 5: Incidents and this horrific war.

1109
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: One thing I note in the statement, and you tell

1110
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: me if I'm reading too much into this, but they

1111
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: don't actually name the RSF here as being the perpetrator

1112
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: of this You know of this war crime, and it

1113
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: seems like you know, the language is intentionally vague. You

1114
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 2: talk about why why the US is sensitive to naming

1115
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: the party to blame here in this incident.

1116
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 11: I put a tweet out as soon as I saw

1117
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 11: that statement, which was copied from Bulos, the Special Advisor

1118
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 11: for Africa from the Trump administration, and I said, you

1119
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 11: wouldn't know it from this tweet that this attack was

1120
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 11: committed by the Rapid Support Forces, and so we have

1121
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 11: to put this in context for your audience. In the

1122
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 11: end of October, after we were monitoring the city of

1123
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 11: ol Fosher, which was under siege for two and a

1124
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 11: half years, we believe between sixty thousand to one hundred

1125
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 11: thousand civilians or massacred inside basically a kill box an

1126
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 11: earthen wall by the Rapid Support Forces in an act

1127
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 11: of genocide, probably the last major killing of the Darfur genocide,

1128
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 11: and so what you have to understand here is the

1129
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 11: Rapid Support Forces aren't just bad guys with guns. They

1130
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 11: are genocide heirs who have been killing civilians en mass

1131
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 11: in civilians from the Zagawa, the Four and the Masily,

1132
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 11: which are the indigenous black African Muslim tribes of the West.

1133
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 11: And so the fact of the matter is that the

1134
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 11: United States has made a decision, as as the United

1135
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 11: Kingdom and Europe, that they've prioritized the diplomatic, economic, and

1136
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 11: security relationship between the West with the UAE over the

1137
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 11: lives of these people. If the West wanted to, they

1138
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 11: could stop the war in about ten seconds. And that's

1139
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,720
Speaker 11: turning off the spicket of advanced weapons to the Rapid

1140
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 11: Support Forces from their sponsor, which is the UAE, which

1141
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 11: is a major defense partner of the United States and

1142
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 11: of the United Kingdom.

1143
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: Let's put F two up there on the screen.

1144
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 3: This was flagged for US where a new report that

1145
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 3: you guys put out identify some fifty one suicide drones

1146
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: loitering munitions at a new launch point. Can you just

1147
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: explain the significance of some of these drones and the

1148
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 3: technology that enable some of this massacre.

1149
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 11: So to launch a weapon like this, you need to

1150
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 11: have four things. One, you need the weapon itself, which

1151
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 11: we can observe, the actual munition, which is likely consistent

1152
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 11: with a Sunflower, which is a type of drone manufacturer

1153
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 11: by a Chinese company called Marinco, and there's several similar types.

1154
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 11: They're known as Shaheed style or Delta wing. You need

1155
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 11: the launcher, the physical slingshot. You need to have a

1156
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 11: ground control station in satellite uplink, and you also need

1157
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 11: to have anti aircraft surfaced air missiles to protect that installation.

1158
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 11: We know that they have all the above, and just

1159
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 11: to put in perspective, the rapid support forces when they

1160
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 11: were the John Jaweed about twenty plus years ago, had camels,

1161
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 11: rusty pickup trucks, old infield rifles and really junkie AK

1162
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,919
Speaker 11: forty sevens. Now they have an air force, and they

1163
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 11: have a air force that was provided to them, we

1164
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 11: know from Defense Intelligence Agency and the Intelligence and Research

1165
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 11: Bureau of State Department by the UAE and according to

1166
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,959
Speaker 11: the Wall Street Journal, and in that Wall Street Journal

1167
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 11: article it confirms US intelligence confirms the finding of our lab.

1168
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 11: These RSF forces also have advanced Chinese fixed wing drones

1169
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 11: called H nine to fives which are not present in

1170
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 11: that image, and so basically this in the space of

1171
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 11: eighteen months, they've gone from being in the back of

1172
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 11: pickup trucks to being able to fire munitions anywhere in

1173
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 11: Sudan within two to three hours.

1174
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: There was a report from Reuters this morning that I

1175
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: just saw that I wanted to get your reaction to.

1176
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: They confirmed what has been sort of rumored and you know,

1177
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 2: theoried in various intel circles that Ethiopia is hosting a

1178
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: secret camp to train thousands of fighters for the RSF

1179
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: paramilitary group in Namoring sou Dan. Reuter's reporting is found

1180
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: the latest sign that one of the world's deadliest conflicts

1181
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: is sucking in regional powers from Africa and the Middle East.

1182
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: Can you help us understand the significance of Ethiopia getting

1183
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 2: directly involved here? Why there are so many fears of

1184
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 2: this war spiraling into a regional conflict, and what these

1185
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: regional proxy powers why they have such an interest in

1186
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: what happens in Sudan.

1187
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 11: Oh, there's a lot of questions. Yeah, so I'll do

1188
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 11: my best here. Yesterday I reviewed imagery related to that

1189
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 11: alleged RSF base in Benny Shengele on the Ethiopian side

1190
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 11: of the border, and I've been in that area before,

1191
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 11: near Asaso, so I know that terrain. Well, what you

1192
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 11: have to understand is that there's it's thick jungle with

1193
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,959
Speaker 11: a lot of hills, so things don't just pop up there.

1194
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 11: You have to really want to build something there. And

1195
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 11: we see not just in the sites that Reuter's identified,

1196
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 11: but I can give you a little bit of new

1197
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 11: news this morning is that we think there's additional sites

1198
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 11: beyond what Reuter's identified, and we're working to verify that

1199
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 11: that really start to appear mid to late October to

1200
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 11: early November uh in that area, and there they appear

1201
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 11: near Ethiopian National Defense Force bases.

1202
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: In that area.

1203
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 11: So the big deal about this is a it shows

1204
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 11: likely that Abbe, the Prime Minister of Ethiopia, is basically

1205
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 11: siding with RSF. Additionally, what it shows is that the RSF,

1206
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 11: as we've seen in recent days, has been trying to

1207
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 11: build basically an eastern front to try to pull the

1208
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 11: Sudan Armed Forces off from attacking RSF bases in Darfur

1209
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 11: and trying to reclaim cities in the west. So they're

1210
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 11: trying to get staff to attack towards the east so

1211
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 11: they can bog them down. Why is this happening, Well

1212
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 11: that as you said, you know, when people say Sudan

1213
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 11: is a civil war, I bulk at that it is.

1214
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 11: It is a fight of regional proxies where the main

1215
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 11: victim in the battlefield are the lives and bodies of

1216
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 11: Sudanese civilians.

1217
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: And like the movie die.

1218
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 11: Hard, Okay, what you think is a terrorist action actually

1219
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 11: is a bank robbery. And so the people who are

1220
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 11: being robbed of their resources are the Sudanese people. And

1221
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 11: so really Ethiopia, watch what's happening now with Eritrea. Eritrea,

1222
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 11: who has sided with SATH, is now threatening action in

1223
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 11: the north and to Gray and so this is all

1224
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 11: part of a regional neighborhood battle by about six to

1225
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 11: eight countries.

1226
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 8: Wow.

1227
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 2: Well, Nathaniel, I thank you so much for joining us this. Mary,

1228
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: I really thank you for your work on this and

1229
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 2: keeping the focus on as as you said, and as

1230
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: I said, the worse humanitarian crisis unfolding on the planet

1231
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: right now.

1232
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 5: Could you let people know where.

1233
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: They can follow the reports that you're putting out in

1234
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: the information that you're sharing.

1235
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, Just type yale Hrl and Sudan into Google and

1236
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 11: Reports and it will be the first thing that pops up.

1237
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: All right, thank you so much. We're really grateful for

1238
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 2: your time.