1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised, Hi, everybody, 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: welcome to a very special episode of Noble Blood. I 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: am so excited to be here talking with the incredible 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: historian Helen Carr, who wrote a really wonderful book called 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: The Red Prince all about John of Gaunt. I would say, 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: one of the less explored sons of Edward the Third Helen, 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood. Thank you so much for having me. 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: What brought you to John of Gaunt? And for those 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: who maybe don't know, how would you, probably more eloquently 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: than I just did, describe who he was in medieval history. 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: So I came to John of Many many years ago. 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: I had just moved to London as a postgraduate, and 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: I was starting to get used to life in the 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: big city and being such a history geek, as I 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: always have been my whole life. One of the things 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to do in my time off was going 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: to explore some of the lesser known areas of London 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: and historic areas of London, and so I spent my 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: weekend sort of walking around the Tower of London, really 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: cool places that I suppose is such a luxury for me. 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: I get to just go and do that, but I 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: suppose a lot of your listeners won't be able to 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: just go to all these incredible castles and things. But 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: it is really cool and there is so much history there. 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: And I heard about this place called the Savoy Palace, 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: which I knew was around the area of the Savoy Hotel, 28 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: which is a very famous hotel in London if you're 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: familiar with it, and I wanted to go and see 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: if anything remained. And when I got there, I found 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: it remarkable that there was literally nothing that was there 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: apart from like a few plaques, and one of the 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: plaques said this was the home of John of Gore, 34 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: the Duke of Lancaster, and famous people who resided here 35 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: were included Jeoffrey Chaucer and King John of France. And 36 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the story of how the Savoy Palace burned down and 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: why John of Gaunt was such hate figure in this 38 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: period is really what fascinated me, and I went on 39 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: to write a whole dissertation thesis about it, and then 40 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: from then I knew that I just had to explore 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: his character further, so He was the third surviving son 42 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: of the third who is better known, probably is more 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: of a warrior king. It's very famous king. He was 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: probably one of the longer reigning kings of the Middle 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: Ages as well. John of Gaunt was also the brother 46 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: of the Black Prince, who is again another famous figure 47 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: in medieval history. And even though the Black Prince didn't 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: live nearly as long as John of Gount, he's certainly, 49 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of the two of them, the far more famous brother. 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: So just to refresh people's memories who maybe haven't listened 51 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: to that War of the Roses episode of Noble Blood 52 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: in a little while, what is happening with Edward the 53 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: third sons, because someone would hear, oh, a king has 54 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of sons. That sounds great and it is 55 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: not going to lead to conflict it all. No. Actually, 56 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: they got on very very well. And one of the 57 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: big issues that people in this period, in the second 58 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: half of the fourteenth century had with John of Gaunton 59 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: was that he was actually such a loyal member of 60 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: the royal family. He was so loyal to his father, 61 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: so loyal to his brother, and he was a staunch royalist, 62 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: and as a unit they were incredibly close and powerful, 63 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: and the third m O was really to sort of 64 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: establish his sons in various sort of power pockets across Europe. 65 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: John of Gaunt at one point went off to try 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: and become king of Castile. He installed his son Lionel 67 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: in Italy. The Black Prince was the only son who 68 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: sort of married outside of that by marrying a woman 69 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: of the noble class in England. But he did then 70 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: go on for a time to govern Aquitaine, which was 71 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: territory that belonged to England in France. So his whole 72 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: kind of intention was really to sort of extend this 73 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: Plantagenet influence into Europe overseas, making England a much stronger 74 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: power in the Middle Ages. We're going to get back 75 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: to John of Gaunt's life, but just to fast forward 76 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: for people to understand sort of why he's important in history. 77 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about what's going 78 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: to happen down the line with his children. Yes, So 79 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: famously he fathered a line of children called the Beauforts. 80 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: And I'm sure we'll go on to talk about who 81 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: that was with later on, but that was with his 82 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: first mistress and then later wife Katherine Swinford, who will 83 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: come into it much later. But Beauforts were particularly famous 84 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: because it was through Margaret both At his great great granddaughter, 85 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: I think great great granddaughter. She was the mother of 86 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: Henry Tudor, who then obviously went into the War of 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: the Roses by winning the Battle of Bosworth and therefore 88 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: found of the Tudor dynasty, which is like the most 89 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: famous dynasty in English history, British history. We've all heard 90 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: of the Tudor. Who has that's yeah, well first also 91 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: for a modern listener, who maybe is like where or 92 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: what is gone? Where was gone? So confusingly also pertually, 93 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: but i'd probably arguably not confusingly. This time there were 94 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: so many often you know, royal children, that many of 95 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: them either shared the same name or they were quite 96 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: difficult to differentiate from one another, so they would offer 97 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: be named after the place of which they were born. So, 98 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: for example, the Black Prince was Edward of Woodstock because 99 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: he was born in Woodstock, and John of Gaunt was 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: actually born in Ghent, which swear Gaunt comes from, so 101 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: he was effectively John of Ghent. But over time he 102 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: has become known by his monica John of Gaunt. He's 103 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: the medieval Bryce Dallas. How So, who was John of 104 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: Gaunt as a person, you know, not just as a 105 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: son and a family tree or a Dutch who was 106 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: he sort of as an individual? So he very much 107 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: lived under the shadow of his older brother, the Black Prince. 108 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: Because this period in the Middle Ages, this this second 109 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: part of the fourteenth century was in the early stages 110 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: to kind of best points of the Hundred Years War, 111 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: which was a century long war with a few gaps 112 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 1: in between wages between England and France. And it began 113 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: in thirteen seven, three years ye is before John of 114 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: Gornt was born, and he was born very much into 115 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: this conflict, and this part of the conflict it all 116 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: changed a bit later on. This part of the conflict 117 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: was all about chivalry and glamor and making war something 118 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: that everyone kind of wanted to be part of. And 119 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: Edge of the Third did a very good job at 120 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: propagandizing war. He set up jails and tournaments, and he 121 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: made it all about King Arthur and his nights at 122 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: the round table. He established the Order of the Garter, 123 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: all of these things to make it look like something 124 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: everyone wanted to have get in on and be part of, 125 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: and So for John of Gorne, he really wanted to 126 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: do that. He wanted to be a warrior like his father, 127 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: and very much like his older brother, the Black Prince. 128 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean, anybody who knows about the Black Prince knows 129 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: that he got his reputation really from being this warlike figure. 130 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: There's rumored that he was called that because his armor 131 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: was black and he was the victor of the Battle 132 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: of Crescy when he at aged sixteen, was like righting 133 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: the songs of battle, and he went on to win 134 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: the Battle of Party. So these are like a couple 135 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: of major battles that took place in the Hundred Years War. 136 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: And what people don't really know is very few battles 137 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: actually took place in the Hundred Years What was really 138 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: a war where the French kind of avoided English soldiers 139 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: as much as they possibly could because largely battles went 140 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: in English favor, so they tried to pretty much avoid them, 141 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: so only a few actually took place. So John of 142 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Gaunt was desperate to be a warrior like his brother 143 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: and his father, but unfortunately for him, he wasn't very 144 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: good at it. But he was a very good diplomat. 145 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: He was incredibly clever, he was forward thinking, he was likable. 146 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: He was very well liked at the French court and 147 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: places that he went off to do a lot of 148 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: diplomatic missions on behalf of his father. At one point 149 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: he was so good at it that he was actually 150 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: touted for a potential candidate to be the heir to 151 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: the Scottish throne because there was so much conflict at 152 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: this point still enduring on the English and Scottish border. 153 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: So he was a really well used pawn by Edward 154 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: the third. But he was very trusted. His father trusted him. 155 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: His father saw him as a very astute figure. He 156 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: had a lot of nows when it came to politics 157 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: and what it meant to govern. I feel like in 158 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: any symbolic knights life, there are certain challenges. In your book, 159 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: you do a really wonderful job sort of tracing his 160 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: life and you focus a little bit on the peasant revolt. 161 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about what happens then, 162 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: what the peasant revolt is, and how John of Gaunt 163 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: handled it. So for me, the peasant revolt was the 164 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: catalytic moment in Gaunt's life, so so much of his 165 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: life was focused on European politics. So the hundred Es 166 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: wore the war in France. His intention to go to Castile, 167 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: which I should say was part of what we now 168 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: know was Spain. It was one of the four kingdoms 169 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: that made up Spain. So much of his career was 170 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: dedicated to this European politics. But actually he also had 171 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: an extraordinary amount of land and wealth and title in England, 172 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: and he was known as the Duke of Lancaster, and 173 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: he was really a second to the monarch in regard 174 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: to power and wealth and status. He was extraordinarily wealthy. 175 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: He was not only a prince, but he was a 176 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: duke and he inherited this dukedom through his first wife, 177 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: Blanche of Lancaster, and it's her father who was the 178 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: first Duke of Lancaster, and brought with him like a 179 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: huge amount of territory I think probably like a third 180 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: of the of the country and also lands in France 181 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: as well. So this can you imagine kind of all 182 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: of his income being generated from his lands. He was 183 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: super super rich. He had a good marriage. He's a 184 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: good marriage. He was. Yeah, he was super super rich, 185 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: and he was a prince, like what a catch. He 186 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: naturally through his wealth and titling status. He had a 187 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: few enemies. This became really bad when I talked earlier 188 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: about him being loyal to his family, loyalty his father 189 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: a staunch royalist. This became about around this time because 190 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: it was just after the death of Edward the Third, 191 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: and just before Edward the third died, he was starting 192 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: to come slightly more popular. He was sort of losing 193 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: control of the country a bit. As he died, the 194 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: country well into the hands of his nephew, Richard the Second. 195 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: And some people might know of Richard the Second because 196 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: he's notoriously not a great king as he got older 197 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: and was eventually deposed, but he was the surviving son 198 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: of the Black Prince. Now by this point, the Black 199 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: Prince had passed away. He died of an illness that 200 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: sounds a lot like dysentery, but he had it from 201 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: a really long time, like maybe ten years, so it's 202 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: likely it was more like some kind of degenerative disease. 203 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: So the Black Prince and his father died within a 204 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: year of each other. So John of Gaunt was left 205 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: basically running the country, and Richard was a child. He 206 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: was he was only twelve around the time that he inherited, 207 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: and famously child kings do great in England, easy, totally 208 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: smooth succession. So he had to oversee the infancy of 209 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: Richard's reign and in doing so he made enemies. So 210 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: he made enemies from various different classes within English society, 211 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: but mostly the merchant classes, because, to put this very simply, 212 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: as the crown was losing money, they had to borrow 213 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: lots of money from the merchant classes, and John of 214 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: Gaunton didn't like that. He was a royalist. He believed 215 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: that the merchant classes were the merchant classes as they 216 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: were very much answerable to the king, and so you've 217 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: got a lot of these kind of merchant groups sort 218 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: of infiltrating court positions, which he really didn't like. So 219 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: he made enemies with them, and then he started to 220 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: fall out with the clergy. This was largely all in 221 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: London that this was happening. It was in the city 222 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: because London was a very multre cultural city at the time. 223 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: There was a lot of change. It was quite dynamic. 224 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: There was a lot of sort of i suppose social 225 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: mobility forward thinking in which was slightly different to some 226 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: of more of the county politics. Outside of London. It's 227 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: quite similar, to be honest, as it is today if 228 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: you think of like Brexit and how you know, London 229 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: were like can we just still be in the EU? 230 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: It was kind of the same set up as it 231 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: was in the Middle Ages. So he wasn't very popular 232 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: in London, and there are a couple of counts of 233 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: him having things like his arms reversed by the people 234 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: of the city, which is like the sign of a traitor. 235 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: What does that mean? What does that actually look like 236 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: to have your arms reversed, like to turn it upside down? Yeah, yeah, 237 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: so you would basically turn it around so you couldn't see. 238 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, your shield would be would be turned around 239 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: and you're facing away, placing a wall away. It's like 240 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: someone for like a graduation speech, turning their back. Yeah, 241 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,479 Speaker 1: that's what I'm picturing for a little sigil. Yeah. Effectively, effectively, 242 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: people who were his retainer, so that people who worked 243 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: under him they had their own insignia and if people 244 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: were seen wearing it, they'd be attacked in the streets. 245 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: And his property of the Savoy Palace, which was his 246 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: major home in London. It was beautiful palace crenulated which 247 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: means it was looked like a castle with the sort 248 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: of dipped roof, beautifully built, and it was sort of 249 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: loomed over the Thames, and it was described as this 250 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: camelot type palace, like you know, super super wealthy, like 251 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: the Mansion one of the mansions of London. But it 252 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: was just this sort of rising tension. But the reason 253 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: for the peasant's revolt was because when Richard the Second 254 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: was in the sort of infancy of his reign, there 255 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: was a series of poll taxes on the people and 256 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: they became so crippling that the poor could just not 257 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: afford to pay their taxes, and so they rebelled. It 258 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: started in a town called Brentwood. In essence, I'm so 259 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: sorry to interrupt, just if Edward the Second is a 260 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: is a child king at this point, who do you 261 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: think was the major force in putting these poll taxes up? 262 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: So this is interesting. So John of Gaunt was very 263 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: much one of his advisers. But Richard the Second was 264 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: represented by what was called a continual Council, so it 265 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: was a board of members effectively who sort of oversaw him. 266 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: And this range from the Archbishop of Canterbury to various 267 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: members of his father's friendship group, I suppose would be 268 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: a good way putting it. So it wasn't actually John 269 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: of Gaunt that suggested this poll tax be raised. It 270 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: was initiated in thirteen eighty, just before Christmas, and then 271 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: it was imposed in one and it very very quickly 272 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: went very wrong. So the tax collectors started to get 273 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: chased down and you know, they had to flee the 274 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: towns in which they were collecting the tax rum, somewhere attacked, 275 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: somewhere killed. So there's a movement started to grow. It 276 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: started to go really from this particular pocket of England, 277 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: so you have emerged in Essex. But then there was 278 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: also another faction that emerged from Kent. So this point 279 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: is when you get start to hear of these main leaders, 280 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: one called what Tyler, who's very famous, and another called 281 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: John Ball, who was this sort of leveling priest that 282 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: he didn't believe in the idea of lords and ladies 283 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: and then there was no social hierarchy according to God. 284 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: So that is really who led this revolts and most 285 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: famously what Tyler, and they were kind of egged on 286 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: by sermons from this priest John Ball, who famously said 287 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: when Adam delved and Eve Span who was then the Gentleman. 288 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: That's very compelling. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's quite This 289 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: was massive and what a lot of people previously of 290 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: called this, and I have to say peasants revolt is 291 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: a bit of a misleading moniker for this, because it 292 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: really wasn't peasants. You had quite a lot of very 293 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: successful people joining this revolt and what they were fighting 294 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: against was this really just this massively unfair tax that 295 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: was being imposed on the poor to pay for these 296 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: wars in France that they weren't really doing very well 297 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: in at this point. So John of Gont being effectively 298 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: quote unquote regent, he was the younger king. He was 299 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: also very unpopular because of his his attempt, as I 300 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: sort of briefly mentioned earlier, to try and get into Castile. 301 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: So it was a bit like unsure what his deal was. 302 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: People didn't really trust him. So there was this big 303 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: march on London, this huge, huge marks of thousands of people, 304 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: and it gathered pace as they moved through Canterbury along 305 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: the Pilgrim Roads, and it became quite violent at times. 306 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: People were collecting all sorts of arms they could find. 307 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: Few people own things like swords, but some people had things. 308 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: Some people had like axes, bows and arrows, pitchforks, anything 309 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: they could get their hands on. Sides, and you had 310 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: people who were thatchers of houses. You have low order clergymen, 311 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: your bailiffs. You had all sorts of people joining women, 312 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of people joining in this, this march really 313 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: on London. And all they wanted to do is march 314 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: to London, get the ear of the king. Say this 315 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: is unfair, we're against this. Please can we put a 316 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: proposition to you? A little bit like a sort of 317 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: Magna Carter situation. That was their idea in their head 318 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: as to what they wanted to achieve by this rebellion. 319 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: It sounds pretty reasonable, you know it was, And actually 320 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: I think over time the chronicle accounts of sort of 321 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: you read all these accounts of the revolt and it's 322 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: like they call people baying, like their packs of wolves 323 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: or animals and all of this stuff, and it's like, well, 324 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: actually there were obviously criminals as part of this, because 325 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: then you get these big sort of riots types rebellions 326 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: or riots that happen. You do get people who are 327 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: doing it for just causes, but then you also get 328 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: people who just want to watch the world burn, right, 329 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: so you definitely had that, and there were accounts of theft, murder, 330 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: rape that all happened during this period as this sort 331 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: of influx came into London. But I think unfortunately for 332 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: the royalty and John of Gaunt, when they had hoped 333 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: that the citizens of London, as London was a wall 334 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: city at this point, would shut this rebel horde out, 335 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: they actually at the gates just went now, I think, 336 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: would just let them in because a lot of them, 337 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: of the citizens of London actually agreed with them. And 338 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: it was really in London that this sort of burgling 339 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: hatred for John of Gorne had been bubbling under the 340 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: surface and this was an opportunity to strike. So what 341 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: happened was they got into London through various areas, notably 342 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: London Bridge because that was one of the main access 343 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: points into London at this point. London Bridge doesn't look 344 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: like anything it does now. It's not even in the 345 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: same location, and it had lots of houses and things 346 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: on the bridge, so it was really built up and 347 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: it was looked more like a dirt road that went 348 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: into the city and the city. We then had a 349 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: gate that you had to go through, and some of 350 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: the bad behavior I supposed happened on London bridges, accounts 351 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: of brothels on London Bridge being torched and burnt down 352 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: because they were sort of centers of impunity. But they 353 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: managed to get into London and they had a few 354 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: points of attack, and one of the places that they 355 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: had targeted was the Savoy Palace, this beautiful crelated Caro 356 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: lot like property on the banks of the River Thames, 357 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: which was this sort of great artery that all of 358 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: the travel came in and out of London, so it 359 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: was the main sort of access point to London. So 360 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: it's very busy. It's got lots of ships and vessels, etcetera. 361 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: So it was really the Savoy Palace was in a 362 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: great position, had its own little port so boats would 363 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: come in and get all the wares coming into the 364 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: palace from the river. Had its own pleasure gardens filled 365 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: with roses. It was beautiful. It was an incredibly sumptuous palace, 366 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: but it was really badly guarded, so the rebels really 367 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: had no problem getting inside the palace. It was richly easy. 368 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: And these are angry people. That's a combination with people 369 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: with like good reason, you know, intellectually, but also in 370 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: effect are very upset and want to show it totally. 371 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: They're really mad and like it is a bit of 372 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: that mob mentality as well. I think some of them 373 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: were probably like, yeah, we're really mad. Who we mad at? Oh, 374 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: we're really mad, and you know, so a lot of 375 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: them wanted to just as I say, destroy stuff and 376 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: have a bit of a party, get inside some of 377 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: these amazing properties. This is the sort of thing some 378 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: people who had never even dreamt of being able to 379 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: access the great Halls and these wine cellars and you know, 380 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: Jon of Gorne's bedroom, like, they actually did manage to 381 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: get into places like this. Oh my god, Yeah, it's extraordinary. 382 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: So they managed to get in, unfortunately for him, and 383 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: part of the reason it was probably so poorly guarded 384 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: was that John of Thorne was actually on one of 385 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: these diplomatic missions and he had gone up to Berrick 386 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: on Tweed to negotiate with the Scots. So definitely fortunately 387 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: for him, he wasn't actually present. But what they did 388 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: is they got in and they started to destroy stuff. 389 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: So they were ripping off tap streets, they were taking headboards, 390 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: and at this point headboards of beds, beds themselves were 391 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: very very expensive pieces of profitable They were sort of jeweled, 392 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: often finally decorated. They were taking clothing out of these 393 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: great trunks, and they were taking finding plate which was 394 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, these expensive plate that would be that would 395 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: have adorned adorned the palace. And they were creating this 396 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: pire in the Great Hall, you know, the center of 397 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: the feasting, and John of Gaunt's diplomacy would have taken 398 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: place in this Great Hall and the Savoy Palace. This 399 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: was a big place. It was an important place. It's 400 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: where King John of France spent most of his captivity 401 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: when he was taken prisoner off the bottle of Poitiers. 402 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: But he had quite a nice imprisonment at the Savoy 403 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: by all accounts, so drinking wine from France and not 404 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: really having to do anything. So yeah, this was Jeffrey 405 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: Chaucer was here for for a period of time as well. 406 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: So it's quite extraordinary that this was the sort of 407 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: last hurrah that took place inside this Great Hall. Was 408 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: this giant pire that was being built of all of 409 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: these goods. And what's interesting about this is these rebels, 410 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: they weren't out to steal. I mean, this was an 411 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: opportunity to generate extraordinary wealth by stealing all of these goods. 412 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: But actually those who did try and steal were cut 413 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: quote a quite cut down by their contemporaries saying, you know, 414 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: we are not here to steal, We're here to prove 415 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: a point. So they literally proved that point by burning 416 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: this wealth. So this great pire goes up in the hall, 417 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: and what they make the mistake of doing is finding 418 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: some barrels in the sellers, thinking they were like either 419 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: jewels or goods or wine, and they roll them onto 420 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: the pire. But little do they know that John of 421 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: Gaunt was preparing a muster for his campaign into Castile, 422 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of gunpowder store. So they roll 423 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: over these these barrels of gunpowder onto this pire. I mean, 424 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have been a huge amount because they're just 425 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, but there was an amount enough to do 426 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: with serious damage. Meanwhile, there was I love this little 427 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: kind of vignette. There was a faction of these rebels, 428 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: about thirty of them, who had snuck down to the 429 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: wine sellers. You probably get where I'm going here, and 430 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: there were all of these amazing barrels of gascon wine 431 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: that you know, obviously were a big commodity in England 432 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: at this time, and they got really drunk. They had 433 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: a party and they got really really drunken all of 434 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: this wine bar In mind, most people were usually drinking ales, 435 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: something much much lighter than there's quite strong gascon wine, 436 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: so they were drinking, drinking, and then suddenly there was 437 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: this sort of massive boom and the palace walls came 438 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: crumbling down. They trapped these rebels, these drunken rebels inside 439 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: the cellar because the gunpowder came off and the palace 440 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: sort of fell, so it was like devastation basically, these 441 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: drunken rebels. It said that they were sort of trapped 442 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: down in the cellar and screams of the rebels, etcetera. 443 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: So it's pretty pretty b carb situation, but also what 444 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: such a wonderful detail that you can get from some 445 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: of these sources in the fourteenth century. And then they 446 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: went on to inflict all sorts of horrible damage, including 447 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: dragging the Archbishop of Canterbury, Simon Sudbury out of the 448 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: Tower of London and after eight blows, managing to finally 449 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: behead him all the while John of Gaunt's son, Henry 450 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: Bolingbrooke is the future King. Henry the Fourth was in 451 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: the town of London hiding in a cupboard so god 452 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: Vid their rebels found him, but he had managed to 453 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: escape with his life on this occasion, and then it 454 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: all ended at a meeting with Richard and the rebels, 455 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: at which quite famously what Tyler was cut down, and 456 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: then the peasants revolt was no more. It's such a 457 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: pity also to imagine this beautiful medieval town house that 458 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: we might have still had that got fully destroyed. It's 459 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: I know, and that that is what I find particularly sad, 460 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and for me, you know, it takes me back to 461 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: that time where I just really wanted to go and 462 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: and find it and see it and the story behind 463 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: it is. It's demonstrative of, I suppose, the tapestry of 464 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: history that you get in these old towns cities, particularly 465 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: in England and Europe, where there is so much history 466 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: under our feet and so much that has happened there 467 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: that is effectively been flattened by time. And I think 468 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: it's a really good example of that. But why it's 469 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: important for John of Gordon is that he never rebuilt it. 470 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: And this particular palace was hugely important. It was inherited 471 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: as part of that Duchy of Lancaster inheritance that he 472 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: received when he married his first wife. It was the 473 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: center of his administration. It was the center of so much. 474 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: But he never rebuilt it, and I think it was 475 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: a massive knock to his sense of self and his 476 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: sense of place within the construct of English politics at 477 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: this time, and so much changed, and it is what 478 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: is remarkable and what one never usually gets. And it's 479 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: like it's like gold dust, and you get this as 480 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: a historian, this moment that you can see actual evidence 481 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: of something dramatically changing on a personal level for a person. 482 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: So as soon as he heard news that there's this 483 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: revolt had happened, the palace had been destroyed, he didn't 484 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: know where he stood in regard to the king. He 485 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: didn't know if the rebels demands for John of Gaunt's 486 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: head would were going to be sanctioned. He didn't know 487 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: any of this, and he was just there in Scotland 488 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: for the first time in his life, phenomenally vulnerable, and 489 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: he was at the mercy of the Scots who actually 490 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: throughout all of these years of conducting these diplomatic missions 491 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: with them, they took pity on him and they actually 492 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: genuinely looked after him and cared for him, which you know, 493 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: he sort of repaid the favor later on in his 494 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: life and he never forgot that. And he tried to 495 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: travel back down south to England. He was refused entry 496 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: to his castles in the north of England. He was 497 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: refused by the keeper of the north Men called Henry Percy, 498 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: something he did not forget after this point, and he 499 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: thought that he was going to have this party of rebels, 500 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: this this army effectively marching all toward to arrest him 501 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: and have him killed. He thought thousands of rebels were 502 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: on their way north to and so much so he 503 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: the Scots actually offered him an army to go and there, 504 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: like any opportunity, I'll fight with you. Let's just go 505 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: and like take it. Yeah, I'll totally fight with you 506 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: for any opportunity from the Scots to kind of we're 507 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: fighting Englishmen. Great, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean 508 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: so he did politely refused. He really did fear for 509 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: his life, and one of the notable things that he 510 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: did was he started to become incredibly, seemingly incredibly penitent, 511 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: and he started to make a lot of donations to 512 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: religious houses. He started to I mean practical measures were taken. First, 513 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: he still wanted to sort of make sure he had 514 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: enough word and fortifications for his properties in the north 515 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: of England, et cetera. He knew he couldn't go back 516 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: to London, but he started becoming more penitent, more pious, 517 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: and Jonath Courtne had always been fairly average with his 518 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: levels of piety. It was very normal to have a 519 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: conventional piety at this point if you were a particularly 520 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: if you are a member of the nobility. I mean 521 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages were ruled by religion. I mean that 522 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: is how everybody lived their life. It was ruled by religion. 523 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: So he was no different, but he was never extreme 524 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: with it, and he was slightly more extreme than he 525 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: would be normally. But the most significant thing that he 526 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: did was he ended his relationship with a woman called 527 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: Catherine Swinford, who was his long term lover, mistress, mother 528 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: of his before both of the children, future mother of 529 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: Henry Tudor. Well, yes, the sort of future sort of 530 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: great great great great grandmother of Henry Tila so She 531 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: was hugely important to him. She was originally the governess 532 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: or what's called in the sources is the make stress 533 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: of his of his daughters by his first wife. And 534 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: he was having a long term extramarital affair with her, 535 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: been lasting a decade, and I think that they were 536 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: in love. I think he very much cared for her, 537 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: admired her, loved had looked after her. But he ended 538 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: it like immediately, he ended his relationship with her because 539 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: of course, naturally it did invite negative press, negative attention. 540 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: Of course, the clerics were not very happy about this. 541 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be married to the Castilian Princess 542 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: Constance of Castile, who he had number two wife number two, 543 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: who he had married really for political game. They didn't 544 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: have a relationship. But he ended his relationship with Catherine, 545 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: which is extraordinary. And what he did do though, which 546 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: is testament I think to how emotionally difficult this was 547 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: for him, but he knew he had to do it. 548 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: Almost immediately a month after the rebellion, he invested in 549 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: the building of a shrine is one of his properties 550 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: in theirsbro to St. Catherine, which I think really is 551 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: some is like a sort of eulogy in Stone to 552 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: their relationship and a demon's stration of his fidelity to 553 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: her in his heart. And so after that his main 554 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: focus was it was this massive turning point in his life. 555 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: His main focus was Castile, Castile's Castile. I'm going to 556 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: become king of Castile. I'm going to lead campaigns to Castile, 557 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: and that was his major objective. He has had no 558 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: interest in London. He didn't want to be part of 559 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: the court, he didn't want to be part of the 560 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: political circle. He had to be to a certain extent, 561 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: but he was far less than he was before. His 562 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: relationship with his nephew after this point was incredibly fractious. 563 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean, Richard was a little nightmare. He was like 564 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: it was like having like a teenager basically being somewhat 565 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: in charge of you, and like a very spoiled teenager 566 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: at that. And John of Gornton was probably the only 567 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: person who stood up to him and was like, no way. 568 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: But he wasn't very popular with his nephew for doing so. 569 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: And there are all sorts of like continuing effectively plots 570 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: to assassinate him, and then Richard saying, you've plotted to 571 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: assassinate me, and it was just was ridiculous really. So 572 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: eventually he did manage to get to Castile. He tried 573 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: to lead a campaign, but he failed to take the throne. 574 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: He returned to England quite broken, and about four or 575 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: so years before he died, he married Catherine, so they 576 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: came back together at this point. That's sort of beautiful. 577 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: He he ended it out of piety, but then when 578 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: he was able to marry her did but can you 579 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: walk us through? I mean, he had those children out 580 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: of wedlock, what what happens then? Yeah, so it all 581 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: sounds very romantic. And there is a wonderful novel that 582 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: has written about their romance called Catherine, which many of 583 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: your listeners will have read because it was very very 584 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: popular by a lady Annie Seaton. And she doesn't capitalize 585 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: on the romance of this, and I mean, who wouldn't. 586 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: It is wonderful. But I think that there was much 587 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: more sort of prudent thinking behind it. So I think 588 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: that he knew he had to end his relationship with 589 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: her because he really his main thing, his main love 590 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: was was power, and he wanted to get to Castile. 591 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: He wanted to take this throw. He couldn't do that 592 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: when he was anchored down by this relationship, however invested 593 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: he was in it, however much he loved her. That 594 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,479 Speaker 1: sounds very cold. I really do think he loved her, 595 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: and there are demonstrations of that. I think he married 596 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: her in the long term because he was, above all things, 597 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: incredibly duty bound and loyal. I mean, yes, he was 598 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: obviously having an affair somebody other than his wife, but 599 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: generally speaking, he was incredibly duty band. He wanted to 600 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: see to the safety of his children and his all 601 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: his children, not just his legitimate children, but all of them. 602 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 1: And he actually had them officially legitimized, which is at 603 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: which point they took on the name Beaufort as when 604 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: they were formally legitimized. So he wanted to ensure to 605 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: their security on his death. He wanted to insure to 606 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: Catherine's security as well, in her reputation. I think he 607 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: felt he owed that to her. So they did. Yeah, 608 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: they did eventually marry, and but you know, their relationship 609 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: was very much it was very practical in many ways. 610 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: And I think often when we think about demonstrations of love, 611 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: we think there's going to be jewels or tokens, but 612 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: actually tokens for her were very practical ones would for 613 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: her household, wine property. He wanted to see to her security, 614 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: and for me, that is the most demonstrative evidence of 615 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: a loving relationship. Absolutely so. Just to recap for listeners 616 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: from his first wife, the Lancaster branch sort of of 617 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: the War of the Roses came about his second wife, 618 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: often castile third wife, but through through them Catherine of Arragan, 619 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, thank you, and then third wife Katherine Swinford, 620 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: who the children were born out of wedlock but then 621 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: legitimized and did that sort of cast a paul on 622 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: their claim even though they were legitimized the fact that 623 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: they were originally born out of wedlock. I mean, it's 624 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: difficult to say. I haven't really done so much research 625 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: into the Beauffits after his death, but I mean I 626 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: don't think so, because they never really had designs on 627 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: the throne and John of count he was the sort 628 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: of patriarch of further dynasties, because if you could sort 629 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: of link yourself back to John of Gorde, it's like, what, 630 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: I've got a claim to this and I'm part of 631 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: the raw phone because of this, Like he was quite 632 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: a significant figure he was a very well respected figure. 633 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: So I don't know if i'd say that, because they 634 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: also got on very very well with their brother. They 635 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: were very close. Henry definitely considered them as as siblings, 636 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: I think because also he had a huge amount of 637 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: respect for Catherine, so that Henry the fourth, who was 638 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: j oldest son, who eventually deposed his cousin Richard and 639 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: became the first Lancastrian king in just after his father 640 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: had died. Um. So I don't think that it did 641 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: sort of taint them. They always quite revered and had 642 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: well respected positions within the noble circles. Oh wonderful. Yeah, 643 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: and I misspoke earlier. I was like Margaret Beauford daughter. 644 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: Obviously she was a great granddaughter of gone great great 645 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: great great granddaughter I think, great great granddaughter, but like 646 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: it's further down the line. But that is the claim 647 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: that Henry the seventh, Henry Tudor will take, Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, 648 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: he's sort of like they went up on the family 649 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: tree and they're like, you know, yeah, yeah, I want 650 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: to let you go. This is so fascinating. But there's 651 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: a detail about another thing that was built on the 652 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: state that the Savoy palace had been built down it 653 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: became a hospital. Yeah, that's right, under Henry the seventh. Yeah, 654 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: it was a sort of charitable so there would have 655 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: been there were remains of the palace. It wasn't like flattened, 656 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: so to speak. And you know, also in this period, 657 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: stone was always reused, so even if it was rubble, 658 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: it would have been reused in certain ways. You know, 659 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: good stone was really great commodity, and it would always 660 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: be redeveloped. That's why you saw a lot of like 661 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: Roman brickwork and stuff in later medieval buildings and things. So, yeah, 662 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: it did become a hospital. Yeah, hospital, which is for 663 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,959 Speaker 1: the poor. It was like a way of giving arms, 664 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: like a charitable donation, which was something that was often 665 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: the case for sort of members of the ability, especially 666 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: wealthy members, because by doing that sort of thing, you 667 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: basically guaranteed yourself like a that nice little seat in heaven. Yes, 668 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: of course, I just found it very poetic that after 669 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: this peasant's revolt of poor people rising up an anger 670 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: of not feeling provided for, that eventually his descendant would 671 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: turn the side of this palace into a charitable hospital. 672 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: I know, that's lovely, and you know, I've never really 673 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: thought a bit like that. A nice Yeah, it's nice 674 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: little eplog, isn't it. Well, Helen, thank you so much. 675 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: This was such a privilege to get to talk to you. 676 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: Where can the people find you online if they want 677 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: to see more of you? I am I have to 678 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: sort of think about what why Twitter and Instagram handles are. 679 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: I think I'm Helen h Car on Twitter and I 680 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: am Helen Carb with lots of under schools in between 681 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: the letters. Google her you'll find her and goin on Instagram. 682 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 1: And I've also got a website, so to be honest, 683 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: if you just time Helen Car History and I'll pop up. 684 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: Her book is The Red Prince The Life of John 685 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: of God. You should absolutely read it. Hell is one 686 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 1: of the most like brilliant writers who makes history feel 687 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: you make it feel like fiction. It's so wonderful. Thank 688 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: you so much. Well, sometimes it's so like it writes 689 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: itself through this too. Well. Thank you so much for 690 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: joining me on the show. M Noble Blood is a 691 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from 692 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is hosted by me Danish Swartz. 693 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: Additional writing and researching done by Hannah Johnston, hannah's Wick, 694 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: Mira Hayward, Courtney Sunder and Laurie Goodman. The show is 695 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: produced by rema Il Kayali, with supervising producer Josh Thane 696 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: and executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. 697 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 698 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 699 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.