Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan run Tug,
Speaker 1: But enough about me, Let's talk about my guests, who
Speaker 1: are truly one of my favorite bands in existence right now.
Speaker 1: Since bursting onto the world stage almost exactly a decade ago,
Speaker 1: this Scottish trio have carved out a unique sound, bringing
Speaker 1: d i y punk ethos to cynthy dance pop bangers
Speaker 1: like The Mother We Share, Leave a Trace and Clearest Blue.
Speaker 1: Their latest album, Screen Violence, is told through the refracted
Speaker 1: lens of a horror story. It's not quite a concept album,
Speaker 1: but the affectionate nod to eighties slasher classics doubles as
Speaker 1: a biting commentary on our modern screen centric existence. It
Speaker 1: also spotlights the constant abuse and harassment that women are
Speaker 1: regularly subjected to online end in real life. Tracks like
Speaker 1: He Said, She Said, Good Girls and Final Girl all
Speaker 1: grapple with themes of misogyny, abuse of power, and gender standards.
Speaker 1: These issues are tackled from a place of strength, with
Speaker 1: a lyrical intellect that's become part of the group's trademark.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to welcome Lauren Maybury, Martin Doherty and
Speaker 1: in Cook of churches. The new record is incredible. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to to go deep on that. But to
Speaker 1: begin with, I want to ask you a simple question,
Speaker 1: which is one that's taken on a new residence, i'd say,
Speaker 1: on the last eighteen months, which is, how are you?
Speaker 1: How are you guys doing today? I mean, it comes
Speaker 1: and it goes, isn't it I suppose for everybody? But yeah,
Speaker 1: we feel good. I feel good that the record is
Speaker 1: finally out and that people have been really responsive to it.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not always given, especially in these times.
Speaker 1: So I think we feel I feel thankful for that.
Speaker 1: Oh that is wonderful to hear. I mean the new
Speaker 1: album is called Screen Violence, and much of it was
Speaker 1: made through screens during during lockdown, when you were all
Speaker 1: separated in some cases by an ocean. Was it challenging
Speaker 1: making this record in such a segmented way effectively, you know,
Speaker 1: in your own individual vacuums. Yeah, I mean we definitely
Speaker 1: had to adapt and think on our feet and sort
Speaker 1: of really shake up the way that we were used
Speaker 1: to working in order to get it done. But eventually
Speaker 1: we we sort of figured out ways that we could
Speaker 1: make the technology work, and the time zones work, and
Speaker 1: uh and and ultimately got to a place where we
Speaker 1: were working really efficiently and really creatively, just as we
Speaker 1: would sort of normally. So I guess we're lucky in
Speaker 1: that regard to have managed to figure that out. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely had its challenges. But you know, I guess,
Speaker 1: as they say, the proof is in the pudding. And
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of this album. And I think whatever
Speaker 1: we did, we did something right. That's amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: none of those challenges come across at all listening to.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's also cohesive. It's amazing to think of
Speaker 1: how you did put this all together. It's really incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've relied on our screens so much more
Speaker 1: in the last eighteen months, I mean, for being connected
Speaker 1: for entertainment, for information. Has this weird period changed your
Speaker 1: relationship with technology in anyway? Um, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: always learning about new audio programs I never heard of before.
Speaker 1: To be honest, like still to this day, we didn't
Speaker 1: interview yesterday and they used to program I've never heard
Speaker 1: of in my life, and I was that, well, it's
Speaker 1: just a whole world that I don't understand. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like touring and stuff. I definitely appreciate smart
Speaker 1: full and video calling in those things anyway, but especially
Speaker 1: in the last year, wheneveryone's been so disconnected. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: we didn't have any of those things, I think all
Speaker 1: of this would have been a lot more isolating and lonely,
Speaker 1: and it would have been basically impossible to make a
Speaker 1: record without it, I think. So it's funny. I've been
Speaker 1: talking to a number of musicians in the last year
Speaker 1: and a half, and so many seem to have leaned
Speaker 1: in with their music to sort of up tempo, optimistic,
Speaker 1: sunny positive. You seem to have embraced the darkness in
Speaker 1: an awesome way and embraced the ambiguity of life. I
Speaker 1: guess in a in a way the record that opens
Speaker 1: with the line I don't want to say I'm afraid
Speaker 1: to die on the opening track asking for a friend,
Speaker 1: would you say that you're a band of optimists? I
Speaker 1: mean in the date, like I guess you know, we've
Speaker 1: made songs that are sunny ear and songs that are
Speaker 1: not as sunny, and I feel like it's just about
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where you're at when you make
Speaker 1: things like if you try and push yourself to do
Speaker 1: one thing or the other, then it's not going to
Speaker 1: come out quite right. So yeah, I think that we
Speaker 1: were just kind of ready for a bit more of
Speaker 1: the gasthy darkness when it came time for this, And
Speaker 1: you know, in a way lucky to have had that
Speaker 1: template going in, because I think it would be really
Speaker 1: difficult to make super cheery, smiley music last year when
Speaker 1: nobody feels like that. I don't think it's already mining
Speaker 1: something that was then you felt more of when you're
Speaker 1: locked in your house. It's definitely a point where our
Speaker 1: management we're kind of urging us to write happier because
Speaker 1: you know, it's like if everybody's going through the same
Speaker 1: really dark time, and the fear, I guess is that
Speaker 1: like there will be a flood of sort of miserable,
Speaker 1: depressing music. But no, I think I think you can
Speaker 1: only really write what's true and authentic to yourself at
Speaker 1: the time. And I think for us to write like sunny,
Speaker 1: happy pop music and ignore the fact that you know
Speaker 1: that we're grounded and where we're at it is like
Speaker 1: it would have been a really difficult thing, like a
Speaker 1: really difficult thing for us to go off, and I'm
Speaker 1: glad that we saw because I do think that even
Speaker 1: though the music is quite melancholy and the lyrics are
Speaker 1: are quite sad in places, I do think that there's
Speaker 1: always with this band, like a kind of optimistic like
Speaker 1: ray of unshine in there as well, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Balance, Yeah, absolutely, I mean again, it's it's
Speaker 1: much more, I think, emotionally authentic to what people were
Speaker 1: feeling in the last year and a half and to
Speaker 1: pretend that, you know, did you have a p pure escapism?
Speaker 1: Would ask you about the title because on the surface,
Speaker 1: when I first heard, I thought, oh my gosh, what
Speaker 1: a way to crystallize the last year and a half
Speaker 1: screen violence, everybody on the screens. I didn't realize that
Speaker 1: that was in the running to be a band name.
Speaker 1: When you when you formed a decade ago, Can you
Speaker 1: tell me more about how you landed on that as
Speaker 1: the as a title. I guess it was kind of
Speaker 1: a happy unhappy accident. They ended up being more poignant
Speaker 1: than we intended. But yeah, it was a band name
Speaker 1: that we've talked about in like two eleven twelve, Like
Speaker 1: we all really loved the imagery of it and what
Speaker 1: it's referring to like that year of cinema and horror movies,
Speaker 1: but it felt maybe it just wasn't right for a
Speaker 1: band name. But we were touring in twenty nine and
Speaker 1: re found this list of names and it just seems
Speaker 1: like a very vivid, not concept but writing starting point
Speaker 1: to go off of. And it's been really fun, especially
Speaker 1: with the visuals and like the little tonic tongue and
Speaker 1: cheap references on the record. It's been fun to play
Speaker 1: with those kind of things and have those elements be
Speaker 1: more escapist, even though the songs are still I feel
Speaker 1: personal to all of usn't a grounded in that space? Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did the horror motif come through? How did that
Speaker 1: idea take route? Yeah? I guess it was the screen
Speaker 1: violence concept, and now that it's a concept album per se,
Speaker 1: it gave us a kind of like lens to focus
Speaker 1: the music through and the and the lyrics through, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It was it's like we've all
Speaker 1: been such big fans of of horror movies and sort
Speaker 1: of sci fi movies growing up, and and musically a
Speaker 1: lot of those things were formative, you know, like watching
Speaker 1: videos of like The Terminator and Ghostbusters and Nightmare on
Speaker 1: the Street as kids, and of course that they're not
Speaker 1: just the film stick with you, but the music sticks
Speaker 1: with you in the atmosphere that music creates. And that's
Speaker 1: something that we were definitely quite keen to sort of
Speaker 1: experiment with, leaning into a little bit more because you know,
Speaker 1: it's fun more than anything else. How much it's true,
Speaker 1: I mean, just how indelible it is to the to
Speaker 1: the story of your band. Didn't you meet at a
Speaker 1: screening of The Exorcist? But yeah, learning I um, that's
Speaker 1: I think the first thing that we met. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: was working at the cinema. Yeah, And it's funny, I
Speaker 1: guess like each of us individually and together have memories
Speaker 1: of those things too. And then remember on the first record,
Speaker 1: I was looking for a bunch of photos the day
Speaker 1: and I found a picture of us all watching Buffy
Speaker 1: the band first there on the bus, like on the
Speaker 1: first first buster that we did. And I feel like
Speaker 1: it's always been part of what we love as people
Speaker 1: on as a band, and it's nice, nice in a way,
Speaker 1: it's quite poetic that came right background to that. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of making music we take seriously, but it's
Speaker 1: fun in a way. To not have to be so
Speaker 1: serious about certain things, and like there's always been that
Speaker 1: element to the band when you guys have been putting
Speaker 1: in certain references or certain bits are left in the
Speaker 1: music which are supposed to you know, which are not.
Speaker 1: Which your references is something or fun in jokes to things,
Speaker 1: and it was nice to be able to do that
Speaker 1: in a way on this record, which on the face
Speaker 1: of it can be quite serious, but in another way
Speaker 1: it's quite knowing and tongue in cheek I suppose, I
Speaker 1: mean taking it back to the very beginning. I've read
Speaker 1: that you actually used visual cues and mood boards before,
Speaker 1: like when you at the very beginning of these sessions.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about how that factored in
Speaker 1: into the music. Well, I don't. I think that's definitely
Speaker 1: something that I've started doing in the last few years,
Speaker 1: probably the first the third album was the first time
Speaker 1: we started sending those kinds of things around. But some
Speaker 1: of the visuals on that record are really cool, but
Speaker 1: some of them didn't really end up how we intended
Speaker 1: them too. And I think going into this, because we
Speaker 1: knew there was more thematic stuff going on around it,
Speaker 1: it felt like, oh, maybe this will be fun to
Speaker 1: plan in terms of just giving the ideas. I didn't
Speaker 1: really think this will end up being a brief for
Speaker 1: what happens, but you know, happy accident, I suppose. But
Speaker 1: I feel like for lyrics especially, that's always how it's
Speaker 1: helpful for me to start like taking in lots of
Speaker 1: other art, whether it's films or books or actual physical art.
Speaker 1: And I love I love a good interest board. These
Speaker 1: kids that like look at my twelve interest boards about
Speaker 1: definitely different things to do this albums, but some gets
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like like they don't want to see
Speaker 1: my multiple bost if nobody wants to see the Pinchess
Speaker 1: board about March should, I feel like I enjoy it,
Speaker 1: like it's nice. That's funny you mention that I was
Speaker 1: a screenwriting major in college, and whenever I was stuck
Speaker 1: on a plot point or a scene, I would go
Speaker 1: for a walk and listen to music, and either the
Speaker 1: mood of the music or a lyric line would inspire
Speaker 1: a part of the dialogue or something. It would always
Speaker 1: kind of re prime the pump and kind of fix
Speaker 1: whatever was blocked in my head. So it's funny that
Speaker 1: kind of goes both ways by using visuals for for
Speaker 1: audio cues. Yeah, and I feel like it's never I'm
Speaker 1: always often a fred almost to listen to other music
Speaker 1: when I'm trying to write music, just in case something
Speaker 1: seeps into your brain literally that you shouldn't so well.
Speaker 1: If anything, I feel like it has to be other
Speaker 1: art forms that do that. And I listened to our
Speaker 1: podcast with Sophia Coplow where she was talking about that,
Speaker 1: and she was talking about all the soundtracks in her
Speaker 1: films and why they're so important to the stories, where
Speaker 1: she says that when she writes, she always going to
Speaker 1: sets of a mood with like a playlist in the
Speaker 1: background of what she thinks she wants to channel. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she doesn't too, so capital well,
Speaker 1: like she's obviously mining really interesting things of that. So
Speaker 1: interesting how the different art forms feed into another. And
Speaker 1: your last album you worked with producer Greg Kurston, who's
Speaker 1: worked with everybody at the All Food Fighters. Was it
Speaker 1: always the plan to to get back to producing this
Speaker 1: album completely on your own or did the pandemic kind
Speaker 1: of make it so that that just sort of made
Speaker 1: more sense from a practical standpoint to just keep it
Speaker 1: among yourselves. Yeah, it was something that we that we
Speaker 1: had decided on before before we were sort of taken
Speaker 1: down by the pandemic, you know, the last album was
Speaker 1: we decided to experiment with you know, honestly, we had
Speaker 1: a sort of six to eight month period in New
Speaker 1: York where we were writing on our own and the
Speaker 1: things weren't like really there wasn't like any real momentum,
Speaker 1: and the songs weren't amazing, and we kind of decided
Speaker 1: to kind of cast the net wide and see what
Speaker 1: working with other people would bring in terms of inspiration
Speaker 1: and sort of you know, fresh ideas. But I think
Speaker 1: when you when we particularly work with other people, were
Speaker 1: always kind of like trying to steal there the techniques,
Speaker 1: not their ideas, but their techniques, and and I think
Speaker 1: that was really eye opening ou a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: And we took a lot of stuff from that back
Speaker 1: to home base and sort of processed it in a
Speaker 1: way that suited us. And that's a lot of the
Speaker 1: reason why I think we feel so happy with the
Speaker 1: way this album came out, because it's like the product
Speaker 1: of all the stuff that we've learned since over the
Speaker 1: last ten years working with us, working with other people,
Speaker 1: and being able to sort of channel that back into
Speaker 1: the original open home based set up. You know, Martin,
Speaker 1: I know, well the rest of us in Lockdown, we're
Speaker 1: making sour to bread and banana bread. I'd read that
Speaker 1: you were making guitar pedals. Did any of that experimentation
Speaker 1: come to to bear on on this new album? I
Speaker 1: made some sort o bread to, Yeah, but I had
Speaker 1: to start making surtle bread because I was eating it,
Speaker 1: and uh, Lockdown, I'm not as you know, as active
Speaker 1: as you might be in regular life. So first I
Speaker 1: started building a pedal board because I thought it would
Speaker 1: be fun to have a few guitar pedals to mess
Speaker 1: around with. And then in that process also I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: it would be nice and cool if I finally learned
Speaker 1: how to solder cables. So I cut all the cables
Speaker 1: and solder to all the cables and put together this
Speaker 1: gargantuan guitar pedal board. The beast this So I thought
Speaker 1: it was really fun and a really great tool in
Speaker 1: the studio. But once I guess, like any ambitious person
Speaker 1: or any kind of natural scholar, once you get to
Speaker 1: the end of that process, you go, oh, well, what
Speaker 1: does the next level look like? So I started opening
Speaker 1: up the pedals that I bought and looking at them
Speaker 1: and going, oh, that's interesting. This distortion pedal has only
Speaker 1: like this a very simple circuit instead of here. And
Speaker 1: then next thing you know, you're looking at schematics online
Speaker 1: and one thing leads to another. Now I have a
Speaker 1: like a bunch of pedals that I made myself that
Speaker 1: are based off of old and rare guitar pedals that
Speaker 1: it's hard to come by now. So I sort of
Speaker 1: turned it into a money saving experiment because I don't
Speaker 1: have to pay thousands of dollars for these weird, rare,
Speaker 1: rare pedals and be like a learning experience, but they
Speaker 1: and and also a creative tool because those the product
Speaker 1: of that learning. If you're a musician or a creative
Speaker 1: then the product of that learning ends up on in
Speaker 1: the music that you make. You know. Then I got
Speaker 1: a dog, which is like what everyone does in the pandemic,
Speaker 1: and I had to stop building pedals because she was
Speaker 1: always trying to run around near there are tuning the
Speaker 1: wires and like and then I'll be like, oh great,
Speaker 1: my dog has a tiny transistor in her mouth and
Speaker 1: I'm chasing her around the house stab herself. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that unfortunately, but it's probably maybe it's for the best,
Speaker 1: because by now this this would be cool of things
Speaker 1: that I've made. In fact, I built this microphone that
Speaker 1: we're using as well, which is wow. But I had
Speaker 1: to stop. Can you walk me through what is the
Speaker 1: process for you of actually beginning a song? What what
Speaker 1: are the bare bones you begin with? I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it depends. I don't know. It's kind of different
Speaker 1: for certain albums and for certain songs. And this instance,
Speaker 1: I think about half the songs of the album came
Speaker 1: from maybe just over half came from demos that had
Speaker 1: done before we got together, and then we wrote some
Speaker 1: in the room together and we finished most of it
Speaker 1: over lockdown. Sometimes the start can be a very solitary process,
Speaker 1: and that's a good thing, but I think I prefer
Speaker 1: to write when there's other people there. In this instance,
Speaker 1: the way that things worked out, the way that we
Speaker 1: were not together as much, it was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we've written four songs together. That's awesome, but now Ian's
Speaker 1: in Scotland and we have to find an album, so
Speaker 1: we either like right and Lauren I can hang out.
Speaker 1: So it was basically just like, here's everything that I
Speaker 1: have do you want to make an album out of it,
Speaker 1: and we basically the produced out from there. Do you
Speaker 1: find that the best songs come the fastest or is
Speaker 1: it more fulfilling to have the ones that you really
Speaker 1: build up piece by piece. I've experienced both sides of
Speaker 1: the coin. I mean, I can say the biggest songs
Speaker 1: come the fastest usually, but the ones that I like
Speaker 1: the most don't necessarily come the fastest. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a that's a that's a tricky question to answer.
Speaker 1: You can write, let its write melody and and and
Speaker 1: a beat and like music. You could write four of
Speaker 1: those a day very easily, but let its take a
Speaker 1: lot longer if you want them to be good. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about the lyrics on on this album,
Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of reviews that have noted
Speaker 1: that the lyrics on this album addressed themes of misogyny
Speaker 1: and abuse of power and gender standards in a way
Speaker 1: that hasn't cropped up so much in your music, although
Speaker 1: it's addressed in your interviews and in in op ed pieces.
Speaker 1: It right, Lauren, Uh, what do you make of that?
Speaker 1: First of all, I wanted to ask you if you
Speaker 1: agree with that assessment, and then secondly, if so, what
Speaker 1: led you to address these these topics in your music
Speaker 1: on this album, Like it's just a natural by product
Speaker 1: of where we're at in life. Probably, Like, you're definitely
Speaker 1: right that gender and feminism have always been part of
Speaker 1: the conversation around around the band and in every single
Speaker 1: interview all the time. That's what people ask is about.
Speaker 1: But it's not really anything we were writing about, necessarily, say,
Speaker 1: other than the fact that a lot of my lyrics
Speaker 1: are from my point of view, which is a female
Speaker 1: point of view. But yeah, I feel like you write
Speaker 1: about things that you know and what your experience have been.
Speaker 1: So it's like chicken and egg kind of thing, like
Speaker 1: a self fulfillient prophecy that that would make its way
Speaker 1: into the music somewhere. But I don't think when I
Speaker 1: was sitting down to write songs that I was consciously
Speaker 1: thinking we should make more reference to those themes on
Speaker 1: this album. It just kind of happened over the course
Speaker 1: of it. And yeah, you never want something to feel
Speaker 1: preachy or didactic or any of those things. I feel
Speaker 1: like it has to be just a personal perspective on something.
Speaker 1: And then with enough in dree and fiction around it
Speaker 1: to make it feel not fun for people. But you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I feel like, when you're writing,
Speaker 1: it should be personal to you, but it can't be
Speaker 1: so completely about that situation that people can't find themselves
Speaker 1: in it. And I guess that was what was fun,
Speaker 1: especially with the horror imagery, because there's so many things
Speaker 1: you can dig into and horror films in terms of
Speaker 1: how women are written and what stories they get, how
Speaker 1: the how female viewers of horror feel. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that was definitely Maybe that's very academic, but that's
Speaker 1: something I was thinking about when I was writing it,
Speaker 1: especially something like Final Girl and my Okay. That's definitely
Speaker 1: leaning into that world. But it's not literally a song
Speaker 1: about a Final Girl. It's just having fun with that
Speaker 1: can imagery. Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was speaking to two women friends of mine who
Speaker 1: are extremely into horror fans. They collect old eight s,
Speaker 1: VHS types of it, and I was asking about it
Speaker 1: and they said that it resonates with them, and I
Speaker 1: imagine many women because the women in those movies are
Speaker 1: the objectification and the way that that sort of putting
Speaker 1: these impossible positions where they can't win in the violence.
Speaker 1: That's not an abstract notion that to them, that's something
Speaker 1: that you know, it is part of their you know,
Speaker 1: daily lives unfortunately in some ways. And it really was
Speaker 1: a way that they could feel uh seen, I think
Speaker 1: was sort of how they put it, which I thought
Speaker 1: was not a way that I had looked at those
Speaker 1: movies and embarrassed to say, but it was definitely educational
Speaker 1: to to speak to them about that. Well. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think that it's just I hate that really basic
Speaker 1: argument of horror as a genre as misogynists, because only
Speaker 1: will any film in any genre could be misogynists or
Speaker 1: come from that lens depending on who made made it
Speaker 1: and what you're trying to see. But I do feel like,
Speaker 1: especially over the course the last couple of years, like
Speaker 1: underwriting this record, I've watched a lot of we all
Speaker 1: watched a lot of horror films to kind of reunite
Speaker 1: that part of her brains. And like, yeah, for me,
Speaker 1: when I'm watching it and I feel like there is
Speaker 1: something that you're unpacking in your subconscious And I've said
Speaker 1: this quote many times, but I think it's true. I'm
Speaker 1: like all women can relate to the feeling of bargaining
Speaker 1: for their own space, their own existence, to their own
Speaker 1: life in some way. You you know what it is
Speaker 1: to feel watched, to feel under observation, under attack. So
Speaker 1: I don't of course people are gonna want to process
Speaker 1: those things through fiction, because that's how we process everything. Basically.
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned wanting to do it in a
Speaker 1: way that was fun. It was not the right word,
Speaker 1: but the way that that you sort of you're able
Speaker 1: to process other people are able to to to put
Speaker 1: their heads there. And I think that he said, she
Speaker 1: said is just an incredible song. I don't think I've
Speaker 1: heard gas lighting portrayed so effectively in music. I think
Speaker 1: that it is absolutely amazing song, really illustrating that the
Speaker 1: expectations placed on women in society are you know, maddening.
Speaker 1: I'm in line in the song, I feel in saying
Speaker 1: I want to ask you more about about that track
Speaker 1: where you're effectively duetting with yourself as a sort of
Speaker 1: the male perspective and the female perspective. It's I think
Speaker 1: my favorite track on the album. An incredible song. Thanks dude. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was actually the first song that got written in
Speaker 1: the room, so Obviously we had all these pre existing
Speaker 1: demos that the guys have done, but that was the
Speaker 1: first fresh both writing that was done and the hooks's
Speaker 1: and the chorus they feel like I'm lives in my mind.
Speaker 1: Thing was in from the first day, I think, and
Speaker 1: the call in response auto tune and stuff. When we
Speaker 1: were talking about the production and the guys were working
Speaker 1: on that. It was meant to be like a kind
Speaker 1: of call and response between yourself and the voice that
Speaker 1: you're talking about in your head, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I think. I mean they'll be able to speak more
Speaker 1: on that, but yeah, I feel like it's fun to
Speaker 1: have those kinds of it's like it's musical imagery as
Speaker 1: well as that links with the lyrics, and I think
Speaker 1: that's really clever. Now it was love it to my years.
Speaker 1: I thought that Good Girls was almost a companion piece
Speaker 1: in so many ways, rejecting the rules that are laid out.
Speaker 1: And he said, she said, I think that's an amazing
Speaker 1: song too. I wanted to ask you more about Good
Speaker 1: Girls as well. Next man, Like, I feel like when
Speaker 1: I think about those songs and like it's almost like
Speaker 1: I rate from two different perspectives. But I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of people can relate to that. Like, I
Speaker 1: feel like those songs are written as I wish that
Speaker 1: this is what I did every day, and this is
Speaker 1: actually the standard I held myself do and this is
Speaker 1: how I went through the world. But it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: all the time, but it's what I can hope for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like those songs are cathartic to write, but
Speaker 1: there's coming from a more kind of formative character space,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. But it's really amazing when people
Speaker 1: said that they found something in those songs, because I
Speaker 1: think everybody we never set out to write a song
Speaker 1: that will do that, and I hope, like what everyone
Speaker 1: ever have. I think it's all like we've always gone
Speaker 1: back and change the lyrics because it's felt too preachy
Speaker 1: or not quite right. Yeah. I guess it goes to
Speaker 1: show you can't over plan something in advanced It just
Speaker 1: has to happen when it's going to happen. That's what's
Speaker 1: cool about music and making things for me anyways, that like,
Speaker 1: we spend so much of our time being like facts
Speaker 1: not feelings, and then creation is mostly feelings not facts,
Speaker 1: And I think that that's it's nice to have that
Speaker 1: blood tide. You spend time as a music journalist earlier
Speaker 1: in your career. I mean it's rare that I've read
Speaker 1: interviews with the band or spoken new band that I
Speaker 1: think is so sort of aware of where they sit
Speaker 1: musically and their narrative. Is that sort of hard to
Speaker 1: kind of silence that static of sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about how something might be reviewed or or things
Speaker 1: would would play online. Is it hard to just sort
Speaker 1: of silence all that and just focus on what you
Speaker 1: hear inside? I mean, I feel like the media stuff
Speaker 1: for me is more just like I wouldn't think we
Speaker 1: bring that into the creative space. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: guess it's more of being like when we're out doing
Speaker 1: interviews or when we're on the road and there needs
Speaker 1: stuff to be done in that kind of administrative promo sense.
Speaker 1: I don't think that being a journalist taught me anything
Speaker 1: about making art really. If anything, it taught me more
Speaker 1: that it's all completely subjective and nobody, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: has a different opinion than Yeah, I don't. I feel
Speaker 1: like it should be music first, marketing second. Yes, my
Speaker 1: my feeling. I gotta ask you got John Carpenter to
Speaker 1: do the remix on Good Girls, How horror fans give
Speaker 1: us the Giet and Gun in the Heaven? How was that?
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. Yeah, he's um. You know, he's
Speaker 1: responsible for some of my favorite films. You know, some
Speaker 1: of those movies that were actually influential to me as
Speaker 1: a creator and musician as I was growing up, something
Speaker 1: that he hat touched on earlier. You know, those movies
Speaker 1: that like a hold a special place in your heart.
Speaker 1: John Kupert has made some of those films for me,
Speaker 1: So it was it was pretty awesome to have him
Speaker 1: put a spin on some of our work. Even more
Speaker 1: fun was to trade the remix with him, you know,
Speaker 1: like he was he said, well, you can pay me
Speaker 1: or you can remix me, And well we chose remix.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's out now so you can hear the results.
Speaker 1: But like, we didn't want to go up against him
Speaker 1: as like a synth neer, because I mean, he has
Speaker 1: a lot more experienced than us, and he's more celebrated,
Speaker 1: and we're not idiots. So we decided to take his
Speaker 1: song in a more organic direction, you know, like what
Speaker 1: is the John Carpet or like electronic piece unlike, but
Speaker 1: it's more of a orderline like post rock thing, and
Speaker 1: it was I thought that was kind of a lot
Speaker 1: of fun because he he really breathed new life and
Speaker 1: good girls as well, and really respect what he did
Speaker 1: and have tremendous respect for what he has accomplished over
Speaker 1: the years. And of course I can't mention special guests
Speaker 1: on this album without mentioning the great Robert Smith. What
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Having him with you on
Speaker 1: How Not to Drown? My God? I mean, I know
Speaker 1: you're massive Cure fans. How did that come about? We're
Speaker 1: all massive Cure fans again, Like that band really formed
Speaker 1: such a part of our musical language growing up, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sort of came about in a really sort of
Speaker 1: I don't don't want to say boring, but like not
Speaker 1: not not from a place of inspiration per se. But
Speaker 1: our manager had heard that The Cure would be playing
Speaker 1: some shows next year with some new music out, and
Speaker 1: had got in touch with their management to say, you know,
Speaker 1: throw that throwing our hat in the ring for potential
Speaker 1: support spots as as you did as a good manager,
Speaker 1: you know. But but apparently Robert doesn't work with a
Speaker 1: manager anymore. So he got back to Campbell and said, Hi, Campbell,
Speaker 1: what do you want? The message doesn't was like guys, guys,
Speaker 1: what do we want from Robert Smith? And we were
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know. Like so we had we
Speaker 1: had most of the album sort of in the bag
Speaker 1: or thereabouts by that point, and and so we just
Speaker 1: took the chance and sent him like maybe six songs
Speaker 1: and and said, if you fancy this is what we're doing,
Speaker 1: this is where we're at. If you fancy doing anything anything,
Speaker 1: then you know, feel free to to just give it
Speaker 1: a go. And he wrote back he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really love I love all of this stuff, but
Speaker 1: this one time not to drown. I feel like I
Speaker 1: could maybe do something with And so a couple of
Speaker 1: months went by and me thought, you know, it's we've
Speaker 1: we've missed the chance. He's maybe like going on something else.
Speaker 1: Are he's too busy or just doesn't feel in it.
Speaker 1: But then on Halloween night last year and we were
Speaker 1: all night, no no joke, we were we were about
Speaker 1: to go and watch a horror film here and drink
Speaker 1: some wine, and we got the email through with his
Speaker 1: demo and we're just like, it's just a dream come true.
Speaker 1: So it still doesn't even feel real to us. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just an incredible things have happened in
Speaker 1: our world. Was he very hands on? Like I imagine
Speaker 1: he probably has like a lot of thoughts on how
Speaker 1: he wants things to to sound. Indeed, what was he
Speaker 1: like just as a collaborator, his hands on? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: very hands on, which is kind of an amazing co
Speaker 1: sign in a lot of ways, you know, Like it's
Speaker 1: not just he turned up, delivered the vocal and then left.
Speaker 1: He he stayed in the process all the way to
Speaker 1: the end. Right down in the mix, he was asking
Speaker 1: for really esoteric changes, which I can hear. I can
Speaker 1: hear that's like awesome. When you're going, well, Robert wants
Speaker 1: like and to notch out some high frequency at like
Speaker 1: four K on the symbols, I'm like, okay, well, well
Speaker 1: if that's how Robert, here's it, then I'm gonna notch
Speaker 1: you out and exactly the way that he asked for.
Speaker 1: Right until the end, he was still sending over parts
Speaker 1: and going, oh, do you think this could use some
Speaker 1: extra guitar here, or do you think this could use
Speaker 1: some bits and bobs, And he was really involved in
Speaker 1: the process in a way that you know, none of
Speaker 1: us expected or beyond anything we could have hoped for,
Speaker 1: to be honest, Now we have this thing that has
Speaker 1: his creativity on it, and that is like lives forever,
Speaker 1: and whatever happens from now the band's going forward will
Speaker 1: always that. That's so cool. I mean that did he
Speaker 1: care that much to like get all them the sounds
Speaker 1: of the symbols and everything. That's that's so wonderful. I
Speaker 1: hope that makes you you feel wonderful. I mean, he
Speaker 1: I've got like notes from Robert and I'm sure he
Speaker 1: wouldn't mind me saying this where he's like one point
Speaker 1: five dB off the base at like this time frame
Speaker 1: and the song things like that, You just don't you
Speaker 1: just read those thoughts and you action them right away.
Speaker 1: Just don't even talk about it. There's no I think
Speaker 1: it could be maybe no, not when it's Robert Smith.
Speaker 1: Just chat up and then send it back to him
Speaker 1: and he's like, that's great. Nothing, Yeah, that's great. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's better than gold right there. Yeah, that's great
Speaker 1: from Robert Smith. I'm struggling to think of a band
Speaker 1: who's done a song with Robert Smith and also Marshmallow.
Speaker 1: I mean you exist in such a fascinating place musically
Speaker 1: of having this like d I y punk background but
Speaker 1: also these incredible dance sith bangers that you hear at
Speaker 1: a club. I mean, is it ever a struggle straddling
Speaker 1: that line between those two seemingly very diverse sonic worlds
Speaker 1: or is it just, you know, not something that you
Speaker 1: consciously do, it's just what you want to hear. That's
Speaker 1: a struggle. Yeah, Yeah, totally is a struggle. We don't
Speaker 1: always agree on things, but that duality has been in
Speaker 1: the band from day one. Like the whole thing was
Speaker 1: we want to be creative, we want to be expansive,
Speaker 1: we want to be forward thinking, but there's also nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with being honest and being like delivering like direct
Speaker 1: music that can be on the radio as well. It's
Speaker 1: just two sides of the band. It was always there.
Speaker 1: But I'll be lying if we said if I said
Speaker 1: we agreed on all of them because we There was
Speaker 1: a line on on California that that really stuck with
Speaker 1: me because it's so not a California sentiment. I feel
Speaker 1: like no one ever tells you there's a freedom and failure,
Speaker 1: which I think is so much to impact there's such
Speaker 1: a fast standing line. But again, especially in a song
Speaker 1: called California, it was just such a results oriented place.
Speaker 1: I guess it's probably a kind way to say it,
Speaker 1: how did you learn that hard fought lesson? I found
Speaker 1: it a very inspiring line as as as I want
Speaker 1: to be creative and somebody that you know sometimes struggles
Speaker 1: with that. I thought that was something that was very inspiring.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you more about about that line. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess we all had a lot
Speaker 1: of time to reflect last year, for better or worse,
Speaker 1: whether we wanted to or not. And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think like when I look back on things in
Speaker 1: my life, especially personal life, which I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: feel that that that was a failure, that situation didn't
Speaker 1: go I did badly, that went badly. Like I look
Speaker 1: at those things a lot. That was kind of about
Speaker 1: how you define it, and like if everything was amazing
Speaker 1: all the time, and all you ever did was successful
Speaker 1: in any space in your life, you do don't learn
Speaker 1: anything from that. I don't think you know. And often
Speaker 1: times I think I have a bad habit of holding
Speaker 1: onto things that I shouldn't and like being I don't.
Speaker 1: I hate this idea of being a dead horse, but
Speaker 1: the metaphor of being a dead horse, because I don't
Speaker 1: want to have failed at something like I hate failing.
Speaker 1: It's just a really bad personality trait. But when I
Speaker 1: look at those things and like, I think that for me,
Speaker 1: that lines like those freedom and letting go of those
Speaker 1: things and letting life take you where it's going to
Speaker 1: take you. I say that, but I don't know if
Speaker 1: I do I don't know what I do that, but
Speaker 1: I were tempting to at least. It's hard to take
Speaker 1: your own advice, but take the freedom and move forward
Speaker 1: with it and hope for the best. I mean. And
Speaker 1: speaking of moving forward, what is next for you? I've
Speaker 1: heard that that you've got some some new songs in
Speaker 1: the can too already. I mean, yeah, we've started. We've
Speaker 1: started because I guess we finished the Masters were done
Speaker 1: in December, Violence and the English, so yeah, we've had
Speaker 1: a bunch of time to kind of try and think
Speaker 1: about what we might want to do next and just
Speaker 1: make use of the time. Really, because normally we'd be
Speaker 1: touring all the time, and I say, that's not happening.
Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to think her and and see
Speaker 1: what I see where it takes us. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to hear it and can't wait to see out there
Speaker 1: sooner rather than later, I hope. Martin Lauren, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your time to end your music. So
Speaker 1: grateful for your time, I really appreciate it. We hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite podcasts,