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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. With things

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Speaker 1: being as they are currently, I just wanted to work

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Speaker 1: on something that felt, at least overall kind of positive.

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Speaker 1: And I also wanted to get a little outside of

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Speaker 1: the nine and twentieth centuries, because I had done some

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Speaker 1: things in that time span right before I went on vacation,

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Speaker 1: and then I came back from vacation to a pandemic

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Speaker 1: and did some more and it started to feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot. So I said, let's I'm gonna try to

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Speaker 1: find something totally different, and that finally led me to Ashoka,

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Speaker 1: who ruled the Marian Empire on the Indian subcontinent in

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Speaker 1: the third century BC, so a very different time of place.

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Speaker 1: Ashoka was a real person and also a legendary figure

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Speaker 1: within Buddhism, and for centuries, Buddhist legend and stories where

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Speaker 1: the primary source of information about his life and rule,

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Speaker 1: both within and outside of South Asia. So today we

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about what we know about this

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Speaker 1: man in the empire and how that story grew in

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Speaker 1: importance within Buddhism, And as just a note, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the chronology that we're talking about today is a

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Speaker 1: little bit fuzzy, as is often the case, and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about something so long ago. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: dates that are documented aren't specific calendar dates. There are

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Speaker 1: things like in the eighth year of Ashoka's reign um,

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Speaker 1: some years were also marked from the birth of the Buddha,

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Speaker 1: and there are different opinions on that date as well,

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Speaker 1: Like there's some religiously significant dates, and then other like

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Speaker 1: archaeological efforts to go back and like pinpoint a specific

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Speaker 1: calendar date, they don't always agree. We are not going

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Speaker 1: to take off every proposed date for all the things

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Speaker 1: that are going to happen, because that would be a

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Speaker 1: little confusing and kind of annoying to just have a

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Speaker 1: list of dates every time one comes up. So just know,

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Speaker 1: if you're eating up on Ashoka, you might find some

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Speaker 1: variants in the years. Ashoka's grandfather, Schandra Gupta Maria, lived

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Speaker 1: in the fourth century BC. Before that point, the Indian

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Speaker 1: subcontinent was home to at least sixteen kingdoms, and there

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Speaker 1: was a much larger number of tribes, sects, and sub

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Speaker 1: groups within those kingdoms. A caste system was developing, involving

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Speaker 1: a hierarchy of social classes that weren't allowed to intermarry,

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Speaker 1: although that was still in its early stages, and the

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Speaker 1: most widely practiced religions were vettis Um, which was a

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Speaker 1: precursor to Hinduism and Jainism. This was after the Buddha

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Speaker 1: had lived, but Buddhism wasn't as widely practiced yet. Jondra

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Speaker 1: Gupta lived in the Megada Kingdom and what's now northern India,

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Speaker 1: and when he was born, it was being ruled by

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Speaker 1: the Nanda dynasty. Chandra Gupta took part in an uprising

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Speaker 1: against that dynasty and then ultimately ascended to the throne

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Speaker 1: at about three b C. From there, Jondra Gupta started

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Speaker 1: insolidating his power in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent,

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Speaker 1: both through diplomacy and through military conquest. What had been

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Speaker 1: the Magda Kingdom expanded into the Marian Empire, and this

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Speaker 1: was the first time that all of this territory had

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Speaker 1: been under the control of a central imperial government. Although

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Speaker 1: it's not entirely clear whether all the tribes within that

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Speaker 1: territory really recognized Chondergupta's leadership after Alexander the Great died

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Speaker 1: and three three BC, Chandragupta took over the territory that

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Speaker 1: had been controlled by Alexander's representatives. Alexander died without naming

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Speaker 1: a successor. Then afterward a collection of generals and friends

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Speaker 1: and other powerful people known as the Diadokei went on

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Speaker 1: went to war over how to divide the kingdom. One

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Speaker 1: of these was Lucas Nigator, who tried to invade Chandragupta's

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Speaker 1: kingdom in three oh five b C. Chandragupta's forces repelled

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Speaker 1: this invasion and ultimately formed an alliance with Seleucas. So

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Speaker 1: Lucas is representative to Chandra Gupta's court was a manned

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Speaker 1: named mcgastones, who was also a historian. Mcgastones went on

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Speaker 1: to write a four volume history of the region known

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Speaker 1: as the Indica, which became the Greek world's primary source

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Speaker 1: of information about the Indian subcontinent. Other Greek ambassadors were

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Speaker 1: sent to the Marian court at the capital of Patalaputra

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Speaker 1: as well. Later on in chandra Gupta's reign, he converted

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Speaker 1: to Jainism, and about two ninety seven b C. He

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Speaker 1: relinquished the throne to his son. A Janist sage had

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Speaker 1: foretold a famine, and when Chandra Gupta wasn't able to

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Speaker 1: prevent it, he left his throne to spend the rest

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Speaker 1: of his life devoted to religious piety and in service

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Speaker 1: to this sage. Ultimately, he started a religious fast that

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Speaker 1: he continued until he died of starvation. Bundasara's reign isn't

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Speaker 1: as well documented as his father's, but he did continue

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Speaker 1: to expand the Marian Empire before his death. His death

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Speaker 1: led to some kind of struggle within the line of succession,

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Speaker 1: but the details on exactly was going on there are

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Speaker 1: pretty murky. Polygamy was normal at this point, especially among

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Speaker 1: royal families, and Bindusara definitely had multiple sons who were

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Speaker 1: jockeying for the throne, but how many half brothers there

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Speaker 1: were and what happened among them really varies based on

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Speaker 1: what accounts you're reading. In Buddhist accounts of Ashoka's life,

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Speaker 1: he's depicted as starting out very cruel and tyrannical before

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Speaker 1: converting to Buddhism and leading the empire according to Buddhist principles.

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Speaker 1: Several of these accounts start out by describing one of

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Speaker 1: Ashoka's past lives, when he was a boy named Jaya

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Speaker 1: who met the Buddha and then threw dust or dirt

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Speaker 1: into the Buddhist begging bowl. It was a consequence of

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Speaker 1: doing that Ashoka was then born with some kind of

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Speaker 1: a disorder that made his skin look like dried dirt.

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Speaker 1: He was considered to be unattractive, with a large head

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Speaker 1: and a paunchy body. There was a paper published in

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Speaker 1: the Indian Journal of Psychiatry that speculates that he may

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Speaker 1: have had neurofibromatosis type one. According to some accounts, his

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Speaker 1: father just did not want his so called ugly son

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Speaker 1: to follow him on the throne. Buddhist accounts of Ashoka's

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Speaker 1: ascension to the throne are unquestionably exaggerated. They describe him

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Speaker 1: as ruthlessly killing half brothers to get them out of

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Speaker 1: his way before starting his rule as a vicious leader,

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Speaker 1: torturing prisoners, executing an entire harem after someone insulted him,

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Speaker 1: and killing advisors who failed a loyalty test, and this

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Speaker 1: earned him the nickname Ashoka the ferocious. Secular accounts are

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Speaker 1: not nearly as dramatic, though they acknowledged that Ashoka was

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Speaker 1: not his father's oldest son or the first one in

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Speaker 1: line for the throne, but Bindassara's chosen successor. Ssushima was

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Speaker 1: tasked with dealing with an uprising, and he handled it badly.

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Speaker 1: That caused him to lose the confidence of Bindasara as advisors.

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Speaker 1: So either Ashoka played a part in Sushima's execution and

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Speaker 1: took his place, or Bindasara as advisors simply disregarded the

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Speaker 1: emperor's wishes and put Ashoka onto the throat instead of

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Speaker 1: his older brother. Either way, after ascending to the throne

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Speaker 1: around two seventy b c. Ashoka seems to have spent

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Speaker 1: the first few years of his rule simply solidifying his

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Speaker 1: political position. He built alliances and relationships among other powerful

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Speaker 1: people in his court and in the rest of the empire,

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Speaker 1: and he also tried to create an efficient and organized

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Speaker 1: political administration. Then, about eight years into his reign, once

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Speaker 1: the throne seemed secure, Ashoka decided to do what his

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Speaker 1: father and grandfather had both also done, which was to

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Speaker 1: try to expand the empire. The kingdom of Kalinga in

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Speaker 1: the southern part of the Indian subcontinent would give the

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Speaker 1: empire control of important ports that would allow them better

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Speaker 1: access to trade along the Indian Ocean. So Ashoka first

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Speaker 1: demanded that the Kalinga Kingdom agree to be annexed into

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Speaker 1: the Marian Empire. The kingdom refused, so Ashoka invaded. Once

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Speaker 1: he had conquered the Kalinga king Um, the Marian Empire

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Speaker 1: stretched across nearly the entire Indian subcontinent, from what's now

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan in the east to Pakistan in the west, including

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Speaker 1: parts of Nepal, and nearly all of India. Only the

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Speaker 1: very tip of the subcontinent remained part of the Chola dynasty.

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Speaker 1: This was the first time in history that so much

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Speaker 1: of the Indian subcontinent had been united as one empire. However,

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Speaker 1: as was true with his grandfather's establishment of that empire

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Speaker 1: in the first place, it's not entirely clear how much

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Speaker 1: Ashoka's influence really extended throughout all of that territory. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you'll see maps that have like the entirety of the

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Speaker 1: subcontinent shaded in one color, saying this was all of

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Speaker 1: his territory. And then sometimes you'll see when that has

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Speaker 1: like more blotches in the more central areas that are

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Speaker 1: like maybe not here though according to Ashoka's account, the

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Speaker 1: war was devastating for the Kalinga kingdom. His army killed

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand local people and removed one fifty thousand more,

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Speaker 1: And that word removed would have meant that they were

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Speaker 1: deported or enslaved, It's not entirely clear. Rather than reveling

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Speaker 1: in his victory, when he saw what he and his

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Speaker 1: army had done, A Shoka was distraught. He decided to

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Speaker 1: completely change the way he governed, and the words of H. G. Wells,

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Speaker 1: the outline of history published in the Expedition, was successful,

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Speaker 1: but he was disgusted by what he saw of the

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Speaker 1: cruelties and horrors of war. He declared in certain inscriptions

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Speaker 1: that still exist that he would no longer seek conquest

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Speaker 1: by war, but by religion, and the rest of his

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Speaker 1: life was devoted to the spreading of Buddhism throughout the world.

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Speaker 1: Um this is when he was more nicknamed Ashoka the Righteous.

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Speaker 1: And we will talk about A. Shoka's new way of

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Speaker 1: ruling and those certain inscriptions after we paused for a

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Speaker 1: little sponsor break. Sometimes. Ashoka's realization of what the war

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Speaker 1: had done to the Kalinga people was described as the

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Speaker 1: moment that he converted to Buddhism, But it seems that

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Speaker 1: that conversion had really happened at least a couple of

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Speaker 1: years earlier, so he didn't suddenly become Buddhist after looking

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Speaker 1: back on what he had done in this war, he

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Speaker 1: did the more fully dedicate himself to Buddhist principles. Before that,

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Speaker 1: he just went on Easter. Um, it would be really

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Speaker 1: reductive to try to sum up an entire religion in

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Speaker 1: a paragraph, obviously, and uh, please, I hope nobody thinks

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Speaker 1: my reference of Easter is disrespectful to Buddhism. But to

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Speaker 1: explain a Shoka's outlook, we do need to explain some terminology,

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Speaker 1: particularly dharma. The word dharma is used to describe the

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Speaker 1: Buddhist teachings and the knowledge contained in them, which is

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Speaker 1: also called the Buddha dharma. But dharma is also a

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Speaker 1: concept in both Buddhism and Hinduism, with different nuances in

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Speaker 1: each religion. Uh. Sometimes you will hear people try to

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Speaker 1: translate this word in a really simple way, but in

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Speaker 1: these contexts, the word dharma really doesn't have one precise

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Speaker 1: equivalent in English, and it's also evolved in its meaning

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Speaker 1: in the centuries since Ashoka lived. And to further complicate things,

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Speaker 1: Ashoka used the word dama with two ms instead of

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Speaker 1: d h a r M A that came from the

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Speaker 1: procrit dialect of Sanskrit. And he didn't use this word

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Speaker 1: in a way that exactly equated to the Buddhist concept

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Speaker 1: of dharma, but it was related. In Buddhism, dharma incorporates

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Speaker 1: concepts like duty, morality, law, and righteousness into one idea.

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Speaker 1: In one of a Shoka's edicts, he describes dama this way,

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Speaker 1: quote noble deeds of Dama and the practice of dama

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Speaker 1: consists of having kindness, generosity, truthfulness, purity, gentleness and goodness

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Speaker 1: increase among people. In other places, Ashoka frames this in

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Speaker 1: a paternal way, referring to his subjects as his children.

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Speaker 1: So you can see some can not exactly overlap, but

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Speaker 1: you can see some relation in these two ideas, but

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Speaker 1: they're definitely not the exact same thing. After a Shoka

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Speaker 1: saw the results of his conquest of Kalinga, he absolutely

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Speaker 1: devoted himself to ruling according to this idea of dama.

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Speaker 1: One of his queen's Carvaki was credited with influencing him

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Speaker 1: in this direction. One of his first acts after making

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Speaker 1: this change was to take a two hundred fifty six

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Speaker 1: day tour of his territory. A lot of folks have

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Speaker 1: made different interpretations of the significance of that number of days.

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Speaker 1: On this tour, he distributed wealth and delivered addresses about

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Speaker 1: his newfound dedication to Dama and what it meant for

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Speaker 1: the empire. From there, he took regular Dama tours of

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Speaker 1: the empire, which involved quote visits and gifts to brahmin's

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Speaker 1: and ascetics, visits and gifts of gold to the aged,

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Speaker 1: visits to people in the countryside, instructing them in Dama,

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Speaker 1: and discussing Dama with them as is suitable. Dama was

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Speaker 1: threaded all through every aspect of Ashoka's government. All of

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Speaker 1: its actions and decisions would be influenced by Dama, which

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Speaker 1: was non violent and stressed social responsibility and respect for others.

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Speaker 1: His ministers would be agents of Dama. He would appoint

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Speaker 1: ambassadors whose role was not just maintaining diplomatic relationships with

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Speaker 1: other nations, but also to spread the Dama. He had

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Speaker 1: special ministers whose whole duty was to spread the Dama.

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Speaker 1: He wanted disagreements among nations to be settled according to

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Speaker 1: a non violent approach through Dama, not through war. If

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Speaker 1: war was completely unavoidable, he wanted the belligerents to behave

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Speaker 1: in an ethical manner and for the victors to behave

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Speaker 1: in a just compassionate way towards the defeated. Ashoka's dedication

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Speaker 1: to Dama was so complete that some sources have described

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Speaker 1: him as a zealot, but he wasn't intolerant of other religions.

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Speaker 1: He does seem to hope that his subjects will become Buddhist,

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Speaker 1: or at least follow their own religions in a way

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Speaker 1: that was compatible Buddhism and Dama, but he also described

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Speaker 1: honoring another person's religion as an aspect of honoring one's own.

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Speaker 1: He encouraged each person to follow their own religious traditions

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Speaker 1: so long as doing so was compatible with Dama. For example,

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Speaker 1: he banned ritual animal sacrifice, which was part of the

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Speaker 1: Vedic tradition in the imperial capital of Pataliputra. He also

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Speaker 1: discouraged a number of rituals and ceremonies, including ones that

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Speaker 1: were performed on occasions like births, deaths, and marriages, because

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Speaker 1: he thought that a life of moral conduct and adherence

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Speaker 1: to Dama was more important than these kinds of observances. However,

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Speaker 1: he seems to have been less tolerant of diversity within Buddhism.

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Speaker 1: There are several accounts of his carrying out purges of

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Speaker 1: dissenting monks within Buddhist religious communities or sanga. One of

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Speaker 1: the edicts he issued is known as the Schism Edict,

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Speaker 1: and threatened to expel monks that caused dissent within their orders.

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Speaker 1: Another aspect of Ashoka's concept of dama was making sure

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Speaker 1: that in his empire were well and cared for. He

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Speaker 1: embarked on the expansion of the empire's public works. He

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Speaker 1: built a network of roads to foster trade and commerce,

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Speaker 1: and he had wells, public rest houses, and mango and

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Speaker 1: banion groves planted alongside them to provide shelter, water, food,

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Speaker 1: and shade. He also built irrigation systems and dams, and

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Speaker 1: ordered the cultivation of medicinal plants. He established programs to

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Speaker 1: help the poor and the elderly, and encourage the population

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Speaker 1: to be frugal in their personal spending but generous towards priests, ascetics,

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Speaker 1: and the poor. He established medical practices for people and

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Speaker 1: for animals, and if he discovered that people in a

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Speaker 1: particular area didn't have the medicinal herbs or other supplies

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Speaker 1: that they needed, he sent them. He had so much

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Speaker 1: focus on all of this that sometimes the Marian Empire

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Speaker 1: under his rule as described as the first welfare state.

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Speaker 1: He also called on judicial officers to take care to

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Speaker 1: be fair and merciful so that the people living under

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Speaker 1: their law wouldn't be imprisoned unjustly or treated harshly while imprisoned,

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Speaker 1: and he set up sort of an audit system where

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Speaker 1: officials known as Mohammata's would inspect the judicial system in

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Speaker 1: each city every five years to make sure it was

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Speaker 1: functioning in a just and humane way. Ashoka also approached

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Speaker 1: the royal household and his personal conduct. According to the Dama,

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Speaker 1: he greatly reduced and may have entirely eliminated the killing

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Speaker 1: of animals for meat in the royal kitchens. He made

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Speaker 1: donation to Buddhist sects. He did continue to have multiple

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Speaker 1: queens and a harem of concubines, something that didn't really

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Speaker 1: align with Buddhism, but it was really typical at the time.

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Speaker 1: Apart from the reduction in meat consumption in the royal household.

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Speaker 1: Ashoka also declared a lot of animals to be protected,

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Speaker 1: including parrots, ready geese, wild ducks, queen ants, wild and

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Speaker 1: domestic pigeons, porcupines, squirrels, deer, and quote all four footed

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Speaker 1: creatures that are neither useful nor at all. He also

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Speaker 1: declared very young animals to be protected, and goats use

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Speaker 1: and sALS that were producing milk, whether or not they

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Speaker 1: were feeding their young, and he decreed that animals could

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Speaker 1: not be castrated on specific days. Many of these acts

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Speaker 1: and decrees are documented in at least thirty three inscriptions

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Speaker 1: in and around what used to be the Marian Empire.

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Speaker 1: They were carved into things like boulders, rock faces, cave walls,

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Speaker 1: and quarried polished pillars. Some, based on their position, may

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Speaker 1: have been boundary markers or notifications to travelers who were

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Speaker 1: entering Marian territory. Others aren't places that had Buddhist religious

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Speaker 1: significance or were important cities during Ashoka's reign. Today these

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Speaker 1: inscriptions are collectively known as the Edicts of Ashoka, and

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Speaker 1: they're located around what's now India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: He could make the point that Shoka made these, he

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Speaker 1: was definitely talking about his intent and not necessarily how

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Speaker 1: successfully all of this was carried out. And also, if

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Speaker 1: I were making inscriptions about my work as an emperor,

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Speaker 1: I would probably make myself sound really good. Um we

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Speaker 1: just uh we. We don't have a lot of clear, impartial,

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00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: unbiased sources about Ashoka, so just keep that in mind.

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Speaker 1: Um Ashoka had all these inscriptions made in three phases.

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Speaker 1: The first, the minor rock edicts, were made in the

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Speaker 1: eleventh or twelfth year of his rule or roughly two BC.

301
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Speaker 1: The major rock edicts were in the twelfth or thirteenth

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Speaker 1: year or about two fifty seven b c E. All

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Speaker 1: of the rock edicts were the ones that were carved

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Speaker 1: into things like boulders and cliff faces and cave walls.

305
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: Then the third phase of all this, the pillar edicts.

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Speaker 1: Those were created starting in the twenty sixth year of

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Speaker 1: his rule or about two forty three b C. The

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00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 1: quarried pillars measured about forty ft tall, and then some

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Speaker 1: were topped with a statue of an animal like a

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Speaker 1: lion or an elephant or a bowl. Today, the official

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Speaker 1: emblem of India is a rendition of the lion capital

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Speaker 1: of Ashoka, which is the capital of Ashoka's pillar in Sarnath,

313
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 1: and that's where the Buddha taught for the first time.

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Speaker 1: In addition to what we have just talked about, some

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Speaker 1: of the edicts include Ashoka's thoughts on the war we

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00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier with Kalinga, including his deep remorse for having

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Speaker 1: conquered another kingdom. He describes feeling pain over the scale

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Speaker 1: of the killing involved, but also states that he would

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Speaker 1: feel the same pain if the death toll had been

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Speaker 1: one or one thousand that amount. The text of all

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Speaker 1: these edicts appears to be in Ashoka's own words, rather

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Speaker 1: than filtered through some kind of formal stylized imperial pronouncement,

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Speaker 1: and they seem to have been intended for ordinary citizens

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00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: of the empire to read. In most places, the text

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Speaker 1: is written in the Eastern or Western Pocrit dialect, whichever

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Speaker 1: was actually spoken by the people living there, rather than

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Speaker 1: using the more academic language of formal Sanskrit. They are

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Speaker 1: written in a script called Brahmy, which star it to

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Speaker 1: be used approximately during Ashoka's reign. Sometimes it's even described

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Speaker 1: as a script that he ordered to have created to

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Speaker 1: help make his administrative state more efficient. It's not completely

332
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Speaker 1: clear where the script originated, though, and the empire's farthest

333
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Speaker 1: western reaches, where people were more likely to speak Greek

334
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: or Aramaic, the edicts were instead written in those languages

335
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Speaker 1: using another script called Karashti. These inscriptions have become a

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Speaker 1: major source of information about Ashoka and his empire, but

337
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: after his death, knowledge of how to read them was lost.

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Speaker 1: We will talk about Ashoka's last year and how the

339
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: edicts were lost and then redeciphered after we first have

340
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:53,640
Speaker 1: a sponsor break. Ashoka's adherence to Buddhism and his focus

341
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 1: on Dama seemed to have increased throughout his lifetime. He

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00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: went on pilgrimages to various sites that were associated with

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Speaker 1: the life of the Buddha, including the Buddhist birthplace and

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00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 1: the tree under which the Buddha attained enlightenment. And his

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00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: last year's Ashoka started making more and more donations to

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Speaker 1: monasteries and other religious communities out of the imperial treasury,

347
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Speaker 1: until his advisers cut off his access to it out

348
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: of fear that he would drain it completely. At that point,

349
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Speaker 1: he started donating his personal fortune. I like that they

350
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: took away his check book Um. Ashoka became ill towards

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00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: the end of his life. In the Buddhist legends that

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00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: evolved after his death, he continued to give away his

353
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: personal wealth until all he had left was half a

354
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: piece of fruit. He gave that last piece to the

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Speaker 1: monk that was caring for him on his deathbed. Ashoka

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00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: died in about two thirty two b c e. Having

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Speaker 1: ruled the Marian Empire for almost forty years. The empire

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Speaker 1: itself lasted only another fifty years approximately after that, and

359
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: during that time it had six more emperors. The Indian

360
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: subcontinent is huge, and there was and is a lot

361
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Speaker 1: of diversity among its people's and sects. Most of these,

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00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, kingdoms and sects and people's had only been

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00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: considered part of one empire for less than a century

364
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: when Shoka died. So it seems that his successors just

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00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: didn't have the skill or charisma to hold the empire together.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you'll also read arguments that all of this charitable

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00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: work and good that he was trying to do just

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00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: made things impossible for his successors to continue after he

369
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: had died. Yeah, they're probably a little short on resources. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: One ongoing topic of discussion about Ashoka today is whether

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Speaker 1: to describe him as a Buddhist king or emperor. In general,

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00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: Buddhism is a religion that focuses on the individual. The

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Speaker 1: Buddhist enlightenment related to the idea that suffering exists, and

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00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 1: it exists for everyone, and each person can end their

375
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: own suffering through the eightfold Path. So these eight elements

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00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: are translated in various ways, with one of the trans

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00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: aations being right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action,

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00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. So,

379
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: according to Buddhism, if each person follows the eightfold path,

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00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: the whole of humanity can be released from suffering. But

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00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: every person's release comes from that person's own pursuit of

382
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: the path, not someone else's. Like I can do everything

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00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: in my power to bring enlightenment to Holly, but that's

384
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Speaker 1: Holly's work. Like it is not something that can be

385
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: bestowed on one person by another. Right, I just want

386
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: the magic treat to sit under. I know it's not magic. Um.

387
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: In Ashoka's edicts, he described himself as a lay Buddhist,

388
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: but much of his governance of the Marian Empire was

389
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: outwardly focused on taking actions as emperor to relieve the

390
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: suffering of others. He doesn't refer to philosophical Buddhist ideas

391
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: in his edicts, but to moral, compassionate and ethical actions

392
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: and behavior, so it's not as clear whether he thought

393
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: his rule as emperor was a Buddhist act or an

394
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: expression of his Buddhism. He describes himself as Buddhist, but

395
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: he doesn't describe his empire or his rule as Buddhist. However,

396
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: as the Buddhist religion grew in the years after A.

397
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: Shoka's death, various people and sex claimed Ashoka and his

398
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: leadership as their own. Buddhism grew and expanded through the

399
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: Indian subcontinent and beyond, and for a time it became

400
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: the most widely practiced religion in what's now India. Ashoka

401
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: became a really legendary figure within that tradition, with stories

402
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: that exaggerated his early cruelty to make that conversion to

403
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: Buddhism and subsequent behavior more compelling and dramatic. He was

404
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: interpreted as a Buddhist emperor and even credited with the

405
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: growth and the spread of Buddhism as a religion. Some

406
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: even went so far as to credit Ashoka with the

407
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: Third Buddhist Council, which was convened at his capital around

408
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: two forty seven b C. The Thirduddhist Council discussed matters

409
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: of doctrine and dispatched missionaries to establish new Buddhist communities,

410
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: and it played a direct part in the expansion of

411
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: Buddhism in South Asia and beyond. But it was convened

412
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 1: independently from Ashoka and it was not something that he controlled.

413
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: Over time, mcgastones Indica was lost, although fragments of it

414
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: are included in other Greek writer's work, so we have

415
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: basically quotes from it, but not the entire four volumes.

416
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: Knowledge of how to read the inscriptions on the Edicts

417
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: of Ashoka was lost as well, and some of that

418
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: loss was intentional. Later rulers defaced the carvings or added

419
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: their own names, something we've talked about with other long

420
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: ago historical rulers. And about the fifth century CE, Hinduism

421
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: replaced Buddhism as the major religion on the Indian subcontinent,

422
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: and some Hindu religious leaders intentionally worked to try to

423
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: erase Ashoka and his Buddhist influence. From history. Eventually, the

424
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: only remaining sources of in formation on Ashoka where Buddhist

425
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: legends written in Sanskrit, Polly, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, and

426
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: other Asian languages. The two longest and most detailed sources

427
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: are the Ashoka Vedanna from the Divya Vedonna, which was

428
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: written in Northwest India in Sanskrit approximately two hundred CE,

429
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: and the Mahavamsa, which is an epic poem written in

430
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka in the fifth century CE in the Poli language.

431
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: So obviously a lot of time had passed between his

432
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: life and when those were penned. In a very general sense,

433
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: these two accounts reflect two different Buddhist perspectives, with the

434
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: Ashokavdonna being more reflective of Mahayana Buddhism and the Mahavamsa

435
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: being more reflective of Theravada Buddhism. Both of these are

436
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: definitely Buddhist works of literature, though, and their accounts of

437
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: Ashoka's life and reign are unquestionably influenced by Buddhism as

438
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: a religion and by Buddhist literary conventions. In a sin

439
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: to the basic chronology of Ashoka's life that we have

440
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: already discussed. Buddhist accounts include stories that are more like parables,

441
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: illustrating Ashoka as a Buddhist leader. In one, for example,

442
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: Ashoka orders the construction of eighty four thousand stupas, which

443
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: are dome or mound like structures containing relics. He did

444
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: this all within a day, with the sun pausing to

445
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: let him finish, something that is usually interpreted as having

446
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: been a solar eclipse. One of the books that I

447
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: read as um a source for this episode, went through

448
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: when all the solar eclipses occurred during his reign to

449
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: try to reference when building of stupas may have happened. Um,

450
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of effort to try to make

451
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: it like a clear and accurate chronology anyway. Uh. These

452
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: legends and poems became nearly the only source of information

453
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: about Ashoka from sometime a few centuries after he lived

454
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: until the nineteenth century English antiquarian and orientalist James Prince

455
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: that became the first European scholar to decipher the Brahmi

456
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: Script in eighteen thirty seven. He had become interested in

457
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: the script after a fragment of one of Ashoka's Pillar

458
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 1: Edicts was unearthed, and he wanted to try to preserve

459
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: this language, but it took a while for people to

460
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: connect the newly deciphered text back to Ashoka. Most of

461
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: the inscriptions used the name Devanampriya or Beloved of the Gods,

462
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: rather than Ashoka's actual name, so at first Prince epp

463
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: attributed them to Devanampia Tissa of Sri Lanka, and there

464
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: is still some debate about whether all of the inscriptions

465
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 1: should be traced back to Ashoka. Another scholar, George Tumor,

466
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: made the connection between Prince EPs work and Ashoka in

467
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. This, of course led to an effort

468
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: to figure out number one, what all of the pillars

469
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: said UH, and then to figure out the truth behind

470
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: the legendary accounts of Ashoka, which had become more widely

471
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: known at the time. The pillars also included a lot

472
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: more dates than the more legendary accounts of Ashoka's life,

473
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: and then that leads you a lot of efforts to

474
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: piece together a more specific timeline of Ashoka's reign and

475
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: the empire as a whole. UH. The Western look at

476
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: all of this text also sparked a lot of interest

477
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: in the text itself, and at this point the edicts

478
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: texts has been studied a lot more thoroughly than the

479
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: archaeological context of the inscriptions themselves. Will end with something H. G.

480
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: Wells wrote about Ashoka in The Outline of History, which

481
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: was published in nine quote, for eight and twenty years,

482
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: Ashoka worked sanely for the real needs of men. Amidst

483
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: the tens of thousands of names of monarchs that crowd

484
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: the columns of history, their majesties and graciousnesses and serenities

485
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: and royal highnesses and the like. The name of Ashoka

486
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: shines and shines almost alone a star, from the Volga

487
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: to Japan. His name is still honored China, Tibet, and

488
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: even India, though it has left his doctrine preserved the

489
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: tradition of his greatness. More living men cherish his memory

490
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: today than have ever heard the names of Constantine or Charlemagne.

491
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: Obviously as a very Western approach to Ashoka, but I

492
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: loved that quote anyway, I wanted to include it. I

493
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: found reading about all of Ashoka's um at least intent

494
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: to do good deeds and good works to just be

495
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: very comforting in the time of pandemic chaos that we

496
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: are currently living through. Uh So, I am glad that

497
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: was where I ultimately arrived when trying to figure out

498
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: what to research today. Yeah, do you have a bit

499
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: of listener mail? I do. It's also a pretty optimistic

500
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: listener mail. It is from Claire. Claire wrote in after

501
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: the render Pest episode and says, Hi, Holly and Tracy

502
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: just finished the render pest episode. Always good to remember

503
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: what humanity is capable of when we worked together. You

504
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: didn't mention, so I don't know if it came up

505
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: in your research, but one of the knock on effects

506
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: of eliminating render Pest was the restoration of the Serengetti

507
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: wildebeest and water buffalo, arkisto and species. In the fifties,

508
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: the wilde beest population in the Serengetti Park was seven

509
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: hundred thousand. By the eighties, it's sword to one point

510
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: five million. Here's a link outlining how this improved the

511
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: ecology of the park. If you want a gorgeous nature

512
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: documentary while staying at home, the Serengetti Rules covers this

513
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: with gorgeous footage to boot. I think now more than

514
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: ever it helps to remember the words of James Earl Jones.

515
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: We're all connected in the great circle of life. Keep

516
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: up the good work and stay safe and healthy. Claire,

517
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: thank you Claire Um for this email. UM. I had

518
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: read a tiny bit about what happened in various African

519
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: ecosystems after render pest was eliminated, but I also needed

520
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: to finish writing the episodes that we could record it, UM,

521
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: which I know happens to the both of us at times. UM.

522
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: The when it gets to the point was like, we

523
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: gotta say this is done. So thank you so much

524
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: for giving me the It's Claire to say something about

525
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: it on the show. If you'd like to write to

526
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: us about this or anyother podcast or a history podcast

527
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: that I heart radio dot com. And then we're all

528
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: over social media at mist in History. That's where you'll

529
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: find our Facebook, Pinterest, Twitter, and Instagram, and you can

530
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show on Apple, podcast, the I heart

531
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: Radio app, and anywhere else you'd like to get your podcasts.

532
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of

533
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

534
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

535
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,