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Speaker 1: This is the Action Network podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh go Way and it is good.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Action Network podcast presented by Fan Duel.

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Speaker 3: We're back with our experts Guide to Betting summer series

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Speaker 3: and this is the soccer edition. I'm your host Maria Marino,

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Speaker 3: joined by Action Network European football betting experts Michael Leboff

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Speaker 3: and Anthony Debundo, also co hosts of Action Soccer betting

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Speaker 3: podcast Wonder Goal Guys.

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Speaker 4: How you doing pretty pretty pumped? Excited to talk some soccer.

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Speaker 4: The soccer off season is very short, so Antony and

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Speaker 4: I are trying to get away from it as much

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Speaker 4: as we can, but now's about the time when things

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Speaker 4: start to percolate and I start to miss it.

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Speaker 2: So this is good time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're true crazy, there actually is no off

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Speaker 1: season because MLS is going right now in the summer.

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Speaker 1: But for me personally and I know leave off. We

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Speaker 1: don't really know with MLS too much, so it is

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Speaker 1: nice to get a couple months and kind of reset

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Speaker 1: and keep track of the wild world of transfers, which

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Speaker 1: is what we're doing now.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're going to obviously get into best practices for

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Speaker 3: betting the sport. But since you brought up the calendar

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Speaker 3: for someone who is a complete newbie like myself. Can

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Speaker 3: you just give Anthony like a rough breakdown of scheduling

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Speaker 3: and the leagues that you like to bet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, the big five European leagues run from generally

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Speaker 1: August through the end of May, so it is a

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Speaker 1: long marathon season. They play thirty four to thirty eight

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Speaker 1: matches in their leagues and then simultaneously those matches mostly

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Speaker 1: happen on the weekends. Simultaneously, the top teams in each

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Speaker 1: league will compete in European competitions against other countries. So

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Speaker 1: the top English teams, German teams, Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the other teams will compete against each

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Speaker 1: other during the week in European competitions. That's the Champions League,

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Speaker 1: the most famous and those matches will happen in the

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Speaker 1: fall is the group stage, and then as we can

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Speaker 1: into the spring and into June, is the knockout stage,

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Speaker 1: and that typically ends right around the first weekend of June,

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Speaker 1: maybe the week after Memorial Day. So the season goes

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Speaker 1: very long, and then the summers are typically international play,

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Speaker 1: so the players, many of them will have off some

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Speaker 1: of them will have friendlies qualifying. You'll occasionally get a

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Speaker 1: World Cup or a European Championship or right now, the

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Speaker 1: US men's national team is competing in the Gold Cup,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of their top players aren't in it

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Speaker 1: because they're taking the summer off. So it really depends,

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Speaker 1: but summer tends to be international focused, whereas the rest

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Speaker 1: of the year is focused on the club teams that

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Speaker 1: we bet weekend and week out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so basically you will never be bored betting soccer.

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Speaker 3: Why don't we get into sort of the qualifications for

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Speaker 3: both of you and what makes you each a betting expert.

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Speaker 3: Michael Leeboff will start with you and sort of the

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Speaker 3: experience that has led you to where you are now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been betting soccer for a decade plus. I

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Speaker 4: can't really put a number on it, but basically half

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Speaker 4: my life at this point.

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Speaker 2: And what what I found.

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Speaker 4: Is working with with people like Anthony and BJ who

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Speaker 4: are who build models, betting models and and use a

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Speaker 4: lot of predictive analytics to come up with their bet

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Speaker 4: I take a lot of what they're doing, and then

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Speaker 4: I try to exploit the.

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Speaker 2: Inefficiencies in the market.

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Speaker 4: I think that book makers, more in soccer more than

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Speaker 4: any other sport, under underestimate the extremes, uh, which is

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Speaker 4: for me, leads me to betting a lot of bed

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Speaker 4: underdogs in Premier League and other leagues. But I don't

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Speaker 4: think that the gap between these teams is is as

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Speaker 4: wide as as the odds will will will suggest for

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Speaker 4: the most part. So that is kind of where I

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Speaker 4: start from, and I've I've found a lot of success.

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Speaker 4: Is that using that as my foundation, taking what I think,

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Speaker 4: uh from from just you know, pencil and paper, handicapping,

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Speaker 4: and then talking with BJ and Anthony and folks who

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Speaker 4: who build models and make sure I'm that way off

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Speaker 4: and go from there. So it's it's that's a quick

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Speaker 4: look into into my process and why I've had success,

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Speaker 4: I guess for quite some time now betting footy.

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Speaker 1: If you pull up Leaboff's action profile in the Premier League,

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Speaker 1: he probably wins like thirty percent of his bets, but

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Speaker 1: because he's betting four to one, five to one, six

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Speaker 1: to one, eight to one, you end up making quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of money and quite a good ROI just

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Speaker 1: because you know he has an eye for kind of

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Speaker 1: finding the big underdog that maybe BJ and I are

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Speaker 1: two in the weeds to pick up on. And that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what makes our podcast spun is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have different approaches and kind of how we go

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Speaker 1: about finding who we're going to bet, and it makes

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Speaker 1: for a good discussion usually.

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Speaker 3: I was just going to mention in case you don't know,

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Speaker 3: BJ is a referring to Bj Cunningham, who also works

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Speaker 3: on our Action Network podcast Wonder Goal. But Anthony, please

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Speaker 3: continue about just sort of how you've gotten into the

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Speaker 3: sport of soccer and then betting it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first year I remember betting was twenty

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Speaker 1: fifteen twenty sixteen. I lost a bunch of money fading

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Speaker 1: Leicester City and then Euro twenty sixteen when they won

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Speaker 1: the Premier League. I famously picked them to finish last

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Speaker 1: and they won the league, so not great on my part,

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Speaker 1: So it was a rough beginning. But yeah, Euro twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen also a heartbreaker, had a big ticket on France

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Speaker 1: to win it all and they lost in the final.

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Speaker 1: So it was a tough start. But I've really gotten

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Speaker 1: into kind of the week to week actions of the

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Speaker 1: prem and then I think I would say maybe twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen heading into COVID, and then coming out of COVID

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Speaker 1: is when I really kind of tried to expand into

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Speaker 1: more than just the Premier League, because the Premier League

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Speaker 1: is essentially the NFL in the sense that it's like

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Speaker 1: a pretty hard market to beat and there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of eyeballs, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people betting into that market, whereas I think the

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Speaker 1: other league it's similar in that sense, but not at

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Speaker 1: the same level. So you know in Germany, in Spain, Italy, France,

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Speaker 1: and if you go down the ladder, the opportunities are

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Speaker 1: there too to try to exploit it. So I've been

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Speaker 1: betting you know, the main Premier League probably eight years now,

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Speaker 1: seven years, whereas with the other leagues probably three to

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Speaker 1: four years. And then you're twenty sixteen, World Cup twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: The major European international events and worldwide international events have

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Speaker 1: been really fun to get into, you know Copa America

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Speaker 1: a couple of summers ago as well. So I've been

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Speaker 1: betting you know, soccer for almost eight years now.

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Speaker 3: Well, Anthony, you spoke of rough beginnings, but Mike, can

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Speaker 3: you talk to us about how you go from being

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Speaker 3: a beginner betting soccer to actually being successful betting it,

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Speaker 3: and what does that take.

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Speaker 4: The first first thing that you'll notice when you're starting

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Speaker 4: to kind of come into your own is a better

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Speaker 4: soccer is the market movement. You can get ahead of

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Speaker 4: the market movement lines open. It's like football where it's

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Speaker 4: a weekly spark for the most part, So you have

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Speaker 4: lines for days and days in advance. And if you're

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Speaker 4: ahead of the market and and you see that lines

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Speaker 4: are moving generally in the direction that you're betting, that's

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Speaker 4: when you can start to tell that, Okay, I'm I'm

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Speaker 4: onto something here, even if I'm losing bets and maybe

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Speaker 4: not making uh you know, a positive ROI if you're

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Speaker 4: if you're getting closing line value, I think in soccer, Uh,

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Speaker 4: that's that's single number one, uh.

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Speaker 2: And number two is just.

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Speaker 4: Kind of figuring out generating profiles for teams. I think

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Speaker 4: Anthony and I you'll hear on our podcast all the

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Speaker 4: time that we'll we'll circle teams that we know punch

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Speaker 4: up well as underdogs, will circle teams that we know

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Speaker 4: don't do as well as favorites, and they can be

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Speaker 4: the same team. Maybe this team is great as an

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Speaker 4: underdog and doesn't do well as a favorite based on

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Speaker 4: their their profiles a team, how they like to play.

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Speaker 4: And if you start to notice that those profiles are

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Speaker 4: matching up with with real life with those results, uh,

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Speaker 4: you're you're onto something and you're already ahead of the game.

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Speaker 4: And and a lot of that is just watching, getting

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Speaker 4: used to the rhythms of a season, uh, and also

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Speaker 4: understanding the betting market in soccer, which, as Antony said,

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Speaker 4: and it's kind of like the NFL. I think you're

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Speaker 4: gonna have teams that are always going to take public

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Speaker 4: money and they're always going to be a little overvalued

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Speaker 4: because of their their name brand and their star power.

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Speaker 4: And then you're gonna have smaller teams, you know, the

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Speaker 4: minnos of the betting world that that aren't And when

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Speaker 4: you can kind of mesh all that together, you'll have

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Speaker 4: a like, I guess, like a moment of clarity. It's

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Speaker 4: not a tangible thing to say, but and you'll start

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Speaker 4: to really figure out or to notice that you're starting

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Speaker 4: to figure it out. So, uh, those are the singles

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Speaker 4: I look for. It's just like beating the market and

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Speaker 4: noticing these trends that are are agreeing with actual results.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, eliminating bias part of it for me,

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Speaker 1: Like I bet against Tottenham. I'm a Tottenham fan. I'm

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Speaker 1: open about that. We joke about on the pod a lot.

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Speaker 1: I bet against Tottenham, probably more than any other team

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Speaker 1: in the league last year. I just didn't think the

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Speaker 1: market was right on them, and then eventually, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the market did catch up and kind of realized that

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Speaker 1: they were just a mid table team, but uh, they

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Speaker 1: you know, being able to eliminate your fandom and your

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Speaker 1: bias as a first step, I think in trying to

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Speaker 1: become better at this, understanding the stats that matter. You know,

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Speaker 1: we use expected goals and expected threat and ball progression

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Speaker 1: and shot stopping a lot on our show, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of it comes down to Soccer is

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Speaker 1: such a slow event sport. There's not a lot of actions.

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Speaker 1: Like in basketball there's rebounds, points, assists, three points. Even

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Speaker 1: though it's a fluid game, there's so many different stats

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Speaker 1: that are widely known, widely used to kind of evaluate

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Speaker 1: players and teams. In baseball, of course, everything is an outcome,

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Speaker 1: and even in football to a lesser extent, it's harder

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Speaker 1: for some positions. But in football you can kind of

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Speaker 1: have an opinion on how much a quarterback matters. But

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Speaker 1: in soccer, like there's just not as many widespread, publicly

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Speaker 1: used and discussed stats. Everything's kind of vibes a lot,

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Speaker 1: and you can, I think, exploit the market because of that.

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Speaker 1: So it's tricky, but you kind of want to dig

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Speaker 1: in and kind of learn, you know, what goes into

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Speaker 1: creating a goal, progressing the ball up the pitch, having

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Speaker 1: possession in dangerous areas, using that to create shots from

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Speaker 1: good chances, not just you know, oh we had twenty shots,

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Speaker 1: but none of them were high quality, so we never

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Speaker 1: were going to score those kind of statistics kind of

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Speaker 1: looking beyond just your basic box score of oh this

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Speaker 1: team had sixty one percent possession, Well what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Where do they have the ball? What do they do

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Speaker 1: with the possessions? When they lost it? Where did they

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Speaker 1: lose it? How dangerous were they about to concede? So

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Speaker 1: all those little kind of the fluidity of soccer makes

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Speaker 1: it fun and were challenging.

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Speaker 3: Well, you bring up a number of staff that are

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Speaker 3: important to know, and I want to get into more

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Speaker 3: of those resources and where you can find some of

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Speaker 3: that information in just a bit. But Anthony Since you

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Speaker 3: brought up sort of comparing to other sports, Mike, I

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Speaker 3: wanted to get your opinion on whether you think there

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Speaker 3: is a parallel between betting soccer and betting hockey since

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Speaker 3: you are also a hockey betting expert. Is that something

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Speaker 3: that like people who have nothing know nothing about the

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Speaker 3: sports say? Is that just a cliche saying or do

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Speaker 3: you think there is a parallel as you also host

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Speaker 3: our Action Network podcast Line Change.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there definitely is a parallel, and I don't think

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Speaker 4: i'd be the only one to say that. Uh, hockey

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Speaker 4: and soccer are sports with two teams trying to put

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Speaker 4: an object into a goal past the goalie. So right

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Speaker 4: away there's that natural relation. And then as you know, hockey,

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Speaker 4: it's it's more high event than soccer, but it's still

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Speaker 4: when you look at the scoreboard at the end of

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Speaker 4: a hockey game, it's pretty low event compared to basketball

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Speaker 4: or baseball because of all the different things that go

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Speaker 4: into every pitch, you know what and a.

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Speaker 2: Bad et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And like soccer, hockey has you know, a shot, where

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Speaker 4: did that shot come from?

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Speaker 2: What was it true value as a shot?

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Speaker 4: Like was it just a shot from the point that

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Speaker 4: was like a risk shot that had no traffic in

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Speaker 4: front of the net, that does it doesn't really have

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Speaker 4: a chance of going in. And soccer similarly, so we

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Speaker 4: rely on the same stat uh in soccer and hockey,

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Speaker 4: which is basically where we build our entire handicap from,

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Speaker 4: or start it, i should say, is expected goals, which

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Speaker 4: takes the value of a shot on goal, whether it's

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Speaker 4: hockey or soccer, Where did it come from, what kind

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Speaker 4: of shot was it, Did it come after a series

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Speaker 4: of passes, et cetera, And all those things kind of

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Speaker 4: go into this one metric and you can get a

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Speaker 4: better idea of what team actually tilted the field or

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Speaker 4: the ice. And you use those stats very similarly in

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Speaker 4: hockey and soccer. So although when you're watching the two

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Speaker 4: sports they might not feel the same, look the same,

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Speaker 4: they're not even played on the same type of ground.

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Speaker 4: They are in terms of a handicapping pretty similar. You're

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Speaker 4: looking for the same kind of signals, the same kind

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Speaker 4: of trends, and making very similar bets, right money line bets.

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Speaker 3: Well, you talked about building a handicap, so, Anthony, as

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Speaker 3: we sort of establish a foundation for betting this sport,

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Speaker 3: are there any other pillars that we should know going in.

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Speaker 1: I find recent form to be overrated. Any team can

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Speaker 1: run hot for a couple of games. You know, you'll

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Speaker 1: see if you hear if you just turn on a

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Speaker 1: match and they're talking about it, and they'll say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, aston Villa's been in great form. They've won

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Speaker 1: their last three matches, and then you look at the

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Speaker 1: box score and it's like, well, yeah, they won one

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Speaker 1: nil and all three of these games, but they've kind

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Speaker 1: of played poorly and got a couple of bounces and

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Speaker 1: scored off a corner and a penalty and didn't really

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Speaker 1: deserve to win those games. But they've won their last

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Speaker 1: three matches, so they've got to be in good form.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, you'll find that results kind of

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Speaker 1: bias us and it can buy us the market too.

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Speaker 1: If a team runs really hot where you know they're

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Speaker 1: they're scoring every shot for a little while, those kind

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Speaker 1: of streaks don't tend to continue. Some things are predictive

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Speaker 1: and soccer and some things are noise, and kind of

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Speaker 1: being able to separate what is predictive and what is

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Speaker 1: noise is really important. So if a team all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden is creating tons and tons of chances because

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Speaker 1: they tweaked their system or they started playing this other player,

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Speaker 1: this other striker, whereas this other team, yeah they're getting

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Speaker 1: like three shots a game, but this one striker had

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Speaker 1: three goals that were just incredible finishes that he's probably

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Speaker 1: not gonna be able to continue to do well. What signal,

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Speaker 1: what's noise? The signal is the underlying stuff that you

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Speaker 1: see in the data. So I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the big pillers. Is kind of just like recently or

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Speaker 1: not throwing out for them because it doesn't matter, but

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Speaker 1: not overrating, like how a team's played in their last

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Speaker 1: three to five matches is not as important because priors exist.

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Speaker 1: We have you know, a team like a Liverpool this

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Speaker 1: season is a good example. They came into the season

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Speaker 1: after last year they were second in the league, second

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Speaker 1: best team in the world. They had a really poor

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Speaker 1: start to the season. Now you can say, well, Liverpool,

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Speaker 1: their actually difference is about even this year. They're an

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Speaker 1: average team now, but just last year they were a juggernaut.

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Speaker 1: So which the true team. I don't think you can

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Speaker 1: just throw out the priors just because they had a

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Speaker 1: poor run with most of the same players and the

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Speaker 1: truth is somewhere in the middle. So you always want

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Speaker 1: to kind of regress a team back toward what their

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Speaker 1: prior level is because generally speaking, unless there's a huge

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Speaker 1: change in talent or manager, teams don't just become bad overnight.

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Speaker 1: Teams don't just become elite overnight. They tend to have

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Speaker 1: progression and it's a slow build or a slow burn

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Speaker 1: to get to those points. So you know, you should

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Speaker 1: always any kind of you're getting new information kind of

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Speaker 1: want to regress it to what we've seen about this

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Speaker 1: team in the past.

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Speaker 3: And it sounds like in the short term the score

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Speaker 3: is just not always indicative of the level of play

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Speaker 3: and the opportunities that that teams are getting. So, Mike,

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Speaker 3: what else would you say is uniquely challenging about betting soccer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the maybe the most frustrating thing about betting soccer

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Speaker 4: is being on top of lineup news and player movement.

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Speaker 4: We're dealing with a very different kind of media in overseas,

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Speaker 4: where it's very tabloidy, to put it mildly, more than here,

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Speaker 4: where it's it's more buttoned up. And if kirk Cousins,

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Speaker 4: if Kirk Cousins is hurt that will be reported out.

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Speaker 4: There will be you know, news on it. He'll be

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Speaker 4: deively kind of ruled in or out for the most part,

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Speaker 4: or like trending one direction in soccer, it is not

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Speaker 4: even as close to as black and white as it

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Speaker 4: is in sports that are more popular here. It's it's bizarre,

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Speaker 4: is the.

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Speaker 2: Only way I can put it. And then you have

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Speaker 2: the morning of.

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Speaker 4: You don't get lineups until an hour before a match

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Speaker 4: as well, So like it's it's not that you're flying blind,

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Speaker 4: but compared to basically every other sport that is popular

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Speaker 4: amongst betters, you're flying as blind as possible. And then

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Speaker 4: like the in and outs of the schedule, you have

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Speaker 4: to deal with players going on international breaks. For example,

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Speaker 4: if if you're I'm an Everdence fan, they had a

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Speaker 4: very important Colombian defender Yarimena for the past six seven years.

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Speaker 4: He's gone now, but he'd go to Columbia for international

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Speaker 4: play during the two week breaks that are built into

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Speaker 4: a regular season.

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Speaker 2: He would get hurt, but you'd have no idea.

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Speaker 4: You'd have no idea how serious the injury was, what,

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Speaker 4: Because you're not only dealing with now European media contingent,

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Speaker 4: but you're dealing with a South American media contingent, and

345
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Speaker 4: then all you want is the answer is okay, is

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Speaker 4: this guy playing or not? And you're not going to

347
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 4: find out a lot of times until an hour before

348
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Speaker 4: a match. Coaches will rule players out here and there,

349
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Speaker 4: but it's not always the case, so trying to get

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Speaker 4: information is definitely the hardest part. Secondly, it's the schedule

351
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Speaker 4: and just working in fatigue because not every players schedule

352
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Speaker 4: is going to be the same. They could play next

353
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Speaker 4: to each other on the same exact team in the

354
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Speaker 4: English Premier League, but one could play for you know,

355
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Speaker 4: Belgium and could be playing a very busy international schedule.

356
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Speaker 2: The other could play for.

357
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Speaker 4: You know, Burkina Fosso in Africa and his schedule could

358
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Speaker 4: be completely different in the break. So there's all this

359
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,360
Speaker 4: stuff that kind of gets worked in and it does

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Speaker 4: present some some serious challenges.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the number one thing in the lineup right.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to bet soccer and you want

363
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Speaker 1: to like your goal is like I really want to

364
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Speaker 1: beat the market. I want to get my CLV. You

365
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 1: either got to bet the openers or you have to

366
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Speaker 1: try to anticipate line moves because the openers are softer generally, right,

367
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Speaker 1: you can bet the market on the opener, then the

368
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: market will move, and then if you can kind of

369
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Speaker 1: get ahead of the injury news. But unless you are

370
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Speaker 1: sitting on a press conference where a manager says, you know,

371
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 1: most Sala is out this weekend, one of the most

372
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,119
Speaker 1: important players in the league, Early Holland is only going

373
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Speaker 1: to play a half, and you can sit on that

374
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Speaker 1: news and bet on that. Good for you. If not,

375
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 1: you'll see the market in soccer will move an hour

376
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Speaker 1: before the match more than any other sport just because

377
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,160
Speaker 1: of the lineups. And it's really hard to, you know,

378
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: to say how much is Yerry Mina. You know, Michael

379
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: mentioned what is he worth to the spread? Because we

380
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,119
Speaker 1: don't have stats for defenders at the same level. We

381
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,360
Speaker 1: know that if Nicola Jokic is out for the Nuggets,

382
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 1: the line's gonna move what six points, five points? We

383
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 1: know that if Tom Brady isn't playing for Tampa, I

384
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: know he's tired now, the line's gonna move four points.

385
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 1: If Mahomes is out, it's going to move six points.

386
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 1: But like, what is it worth if most Sala sits

387
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: and a slightly worst player comes in it's hard to

388
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: really quantify it soccer to the same level, So that's

389
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Speaker 1: one of the biggest challenges for sure and always hard.

390
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: And then just the variance of it all, you know,

391
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Speaker 1: like being able to just swallow the pill of the

392
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: fact that there's only three or four goals if you're

393
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 1: lucky in a game. Sometimes there's none, a.

394
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Speaker 3: Lot to keep up with. I would suggest that probably

395
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 3: one way to defend against some of these challenges is

396
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 3: to follow folks like you who are putting in the time,

397
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 3: who are putting in the research and crunching these numbers

398
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Speaker 3: and tracking bets on the action app. So I would

399
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,160
Speaker 3: encourage anyone to follow the likes of you all and

400
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 3: to find, you know, the right people on Twitter and

401
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 3: the right list to follow to make sure you stay

402
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,879
Speaker 3: in tuned with some of these things. And I do

403
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 3: have one follow up because, as you both have laid out,

404
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 3: it is challenging. So I guess my question is, Anthony,

405
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 3: what do you like about betting soccer?

406
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: And not much? No, you know, we have our own

407
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: unique time window, which I think is really cool, and

408
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: I love that about the sport. I love being able

409
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 1: to wake up on a Saturday morning at seven thirty

410
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 1: and have you know something that I am very into

411
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: and can kind of build out and kind of make

412
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 1: it our own. We have our own little community on Twitter.

413
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: We have our own little community of people who are

414
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: into soccer, and the rest of the of the American

415
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: sports media thinks we're kind of crazy and kooky and weird,

416
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: and we have a lot of fun with it. And

417
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 1: if really you ingreen yourself in the culture of it

418
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 1: all and kind of the history and the storylines and

419
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: the and just the moments and the passion, like it

420
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: is extremely special. And you know it is just a

421
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: one match in a thirty eight match season, but truly

422
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: it is. Anything can happen in this league. You know,

423
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 1: you see teams that have no business losing get upset

424
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: all the time by infear opponents just because of the

425
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: variants of it. You know, one bounce or one deflection

426
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: can change the whole game. So I love it. It's a

427
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 1: fun challenge, it's a It's a market that I think

428
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,959
Speaker 1: is largely untapped in America and is going to only

429
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: continue to grow as you know, becomes more and more

430
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: popular America. Sport of the future since nineteen seventy two

431
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 1: is the running joke. So it's a lot of fun,

432
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: like I said, and it's a challenge, but it's it's

433
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: different from what a lot of people talk about. And

434
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, everybody wants to talk about the NFL at

435
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: all hours of the day, all weeks of the year,

436
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: but there are other sports and they're a lot of

437
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: fun to dive into.

438
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 3: That's tender.

439
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like the Anthony was kind of complaining about variants,

440
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 4: but I love the variants at soccer, just like in hockey,

441
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,719
Speaker 4: has such a heavy impact on the final result that

442
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 4: if you're like me and betting teams that are regularly

443
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 4: eight to one, twelve to one to win a ninety

444
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 4: minute match of soccer, you know, week in and week out,

445
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 4: you're just you're rooting for those weird moments. You're rooting

446
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 4: for deflection or a red card or something just to

447
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 4: throw the game completely off script. And watching that all

448
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 4: kind of crescendo into you know, the last five minutes

449
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 4: of a match when you're you know, on a fifteen

450
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 4: to one underdog that maybe's up one nil on the

451
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 4: Man City, the best team in the world, and you're

452
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 4: just holding on for dear life.

453
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 2: It's those are those are really.

454
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 4: Special moments in soccer because the amount of crescendos that

455
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 4: kind of peaks and valleys in a in a soccer

456
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 4: match and then of course in an entire season are

457
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 4: I think kind of every other sport pales in comparison

458
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 4: to them.

459
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Michael, I think that there's like, especially for you,

460
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: just some beauty in the ugliness, if you will, and

461
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: just sort of accepting that and embracing it and just

462
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 3: having fun with the challenges that could arise and the unknowns.

463
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 4: There are definitely there are definitely times like I'll go

464
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 4: weeks in a season without winning a bet. I think,

465
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 4: you know, if you look at Anthony said, you pull

466
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: up my action profile and you go to a less season,

467
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 4: You'll probably see three or four weeks where I was

468
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 4: losing maybe eleven twelve in a row. But then the

469
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 4: next two that I hit are you know, make up

470
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 4: for all that? And it's just you know, riding those

471
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 4: waves and figuring out and getting used to it is

472
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: really important and knowing if you can, you know, doing

473
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 4: it responsibly and knowing that if you know, is this

474
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 4: too much for me to watch? These terrible teams lose

475
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 4: week in weekend weekend and week out, just because at

476
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 4: the end of you know, a seven or eight week stretch,

477
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 4: you're gonna get you know, a massive payoff or.

478
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 2: One or two win.

479
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 4: So identifying those things and what kind of better you

480
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 4: are in tolerance you have for risk is also pretty important.

481
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 3: I think betting is a game of runs and it's

482
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: about playing the long game. But let's get into a

483
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 3: couple more tools. Resources, any data points that you guys

484
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 3: think are important to know of that are in your

485
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 3: toolkit as a sharp better Anthony.

486
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's kind of the three sites that I look

487
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: at the most Football Reference dot com fb ref dot com.

488
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: They do an amazing job of just compiling all kinds

489
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: of data on players and teams and have a lot

490
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,959
Speaker 1: of historical data. Understat is similar in that nature. It's

491
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: a different model with XG, but they also do passes

492
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: for defensive action, which is like a measure of how

493
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: much you press and how intens your presses. The analyst

494
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: does really good stuff with set pieces. So there's a

495
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 1: bunch of different sites. Mark Stats on Twitter has some

496
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: really good stuff on opposition build up and goalkeepers and

497
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: kind of expected threat which I talked about, you know,

498
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: which is like a measure of field tilts like how

499
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: much are you pressuring the opponent versus how much of

500
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: they're pressuring you with possession in dangerous areas.

501
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: Those are kind of the big.

502
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Websites that I use to kind of compile data from

503
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: and build out and look into.

504
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: And I think soccer is a sport that.

505
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 1: You need to watch more than others. You don't need

506
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: to watch a minute of baseball to be a good

507
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 1: baseball better. I don't think that's the case for soccer,

508
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: whereas soccer like you have to at least have an

509
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: understanding of how a team is playing and be able

510
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: to understand where things are changing, because teams are not

511
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: static over the course of a nine month season, and

512
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: they'll make changes, whether it's tactical, whether it's personnel. How

513
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: are they changing how they're playing and how does that

514
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: impact what they may look like as a team going forward.

515
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: If a team changes managers, what's the manager's style? So

516
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: all of these things I think you do need to

517
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: have an eye for kind of understanding the game a

518
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: little bit. Find smart people who you think understand the

519
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: game well and have them teach it to you, either indirectly,

520
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: like you know consume their content or reach out and

521
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, try to learn from them as well. So

522
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: I enjoy that part of it as well. And it's

523
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: always a learning game, like I'm learning new stats every year.

524
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: I feel like there's always something new coming out in

525
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: the in the soccer media where I'm like, oh, this

526
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: stat is cool, and then I'm learning about it.

527
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: You mentioned manager changes. I know that can happen in season,

528
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 3: of course, but currently in the summer months, we are

529
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 3: technically in the off season. What are the changes Mike,

530
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: do you feel like you need to be on top.

531
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 4: Of in the in the off season, it's you know,

532
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 4: transfers in and out, and similar to that lineup news cycle,

533
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: this is it's that on steroids, trying to figure out transfers.

534
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 4: It's there's so many different sites. Any whether a player

535
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 4: follows a team on Instagram or on Twitter or whatever,

536
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 4: can set up a riot in a European country. So

537
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: just trying to figure out who's coming in, who's who's

538
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 4: coming out is a challenge in itself.

539
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: But what it can tell you is, especially if.

540
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: There is a new manager coming into a team over

541
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 4: the summer, the kind of players he's looking for, where

542
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: he thinks his team is h is lacking, where the

543
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: reinforcements are coming and what kind of system do these

544
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 4: do these players fit in? You know, you're not going

545
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 4: to bring in two big center backs if you want

546
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 4: to play you know, this big, expansive, progressive soccer. And similarly,

547
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 4: if you know team like Everett and their manager Sean Ditschek,

548
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 4: he's he's got a very specific style that he wants

549
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 4: to play. He's not going to bring in you know,

550
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 4: these these little, you know, creative, smaller central midfielders. And

551
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 4: so just trying to figure that kind of stuff out

552
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 4: and what it means for a team's profile going forward

553
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 4: is important in the summer, and then you know where

554
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 4: we're dealing with a whole new variable in the soccer world,

555
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 4: and I guess in the sporting world at large this year,

556
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: which is the Saudi Pro League just coming and poaching

557
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: players from It used to be that you know, China

558
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 4: would just was was the threat to kind of take

559
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: players towards the end of their career, or the MLS

560
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 4: you know more of players that are inching closer to

561
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 4: retirement who don't have huge impacts on their teams. But

562
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 4: right now Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Pro League is picking

563
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 4: some serious players out of the big five leagues in Europe,

564
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: so now working that in but hopefully and the other

565
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 4: pro problem with this, if I may add, is that

566
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: the season starts in the transfer window is still open,

567
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 4: so there's still a lot of action going on behind

568
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 4: the scenes at every team for the first month of

569
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 4: the season, like the team that plays their first three

570
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: or four games, which is not a small I mean,

571
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 4: it's a small sample, but it's still meaningful in terms

572
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 4: of a thirty eight game season, Like you're playing with

573
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 4: a roster that isn't yours for the season, so that

574
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 4: is another challenge as well. So the summer that's, like,

575
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 4: as I said off the top, like getting away from

576
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: it is pretty important because I just want to at

577
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: least have a more concrete grasp on the type of

578
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 4: teams where we're going to be dealing with week one

579
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 4: of the Premier League season, rather than get too caught

580
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: up in the whirlwinds of transfer season, which are fun

581
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: as a fan, but for better I try to just

582
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 4: almost completely ignore.

583
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: Even as a fan, I usually try to ignore it.

584
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: I just like, oh one, until it's officially done. I

585
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: don't want to hear about it. Is like I so

586
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: many fake reports out there, so many like X player

587
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: has been linked to Y team, and it's usually just

588
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: the agent trying to like boost their profile. Right, So

589
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot more of that than you see, and

590
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: you're seeing it more and more in American sports too now,

591
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting. But the fact that the

592
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: window is still open. I think Michael made a good

593
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: point about that. You'll see teams come out first couple

594
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 1: weeks of the season really stink and the manager will

595
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, I thought we had this adreas,

596
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: but clearly we don't. Let's go buy somebody for sixty million.

597
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: And United kind of did it last year. They came out,

598
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: they got destroyed the first couple of games, they went

599
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: and bought Real Madrid's stopped a ball stopping midfielder for

600
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: one hundred million, so and then they became a much

601
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: better team after that. So you'll see teams adjust just

602
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: based on those couple of games, and you have to

603
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: kind of be willing to not throw out the priors,

604
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: like I said, but kind of evaluate on the fly

605
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: and say, well, they lost this match, they played poorly,

606
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: but they brought in three new players since then, so

607
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: they're a much better team now. How much better, I

608
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: don't know. That's a tough one. So it's really hard

609
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: and it typically takes ten matches in a season for

610
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: you to have like a pretty confident baseline on how

611
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: good the team is for that year. Until then, there's

612
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: a lot of noise, right.

613
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 3: And your brain can only absorb so much. So I

614
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: like the point that you made about kind of not

615
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: putting too much stock in information until it's actually real

616
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: and concrete. But on a more micro level, match to match, Mike,

617
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: can you describe an ideal betting opportunity heading into a

618
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: soccer match.

619
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's a couple of parts of the season

620
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 4: that I really like to bet, and that goes into

621
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 4: the fact that I like to bet these big prices.

622
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 4: One is right off the beginning, right in the beginning

623
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: of the season, because as Anthony said, you really don't

624
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 4: have an idea of a solid idea of of what

625
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: where team's level truly is. And you can play into

626
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: that if you think that a team is ascending. We've

627
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 4: seen it within the Premier League with clubs like Brentford

628
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 4: and Brighton over the past few years and we've been

629
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 4: on onto those early and often. And then the way

630
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 4: that the schedule works with international breaks, catching teams maybe

631
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 4: looking ahead to a two week break against uh those

632
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 4: are those are I think are good times to fade

633
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: big favorites as well, because you can a lot of

634
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: those players are are looking ahead to Okay, I'm going home.

635
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: To you know, Mexico or Bolivia. Where are they're going?

636
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: And those those are natural times to catch teams and

637
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: leftown spots. Similarly, when the Champions League and European schedules

638
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 4: pick up, we'll have situations where a team like Liverpool

639
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 4: for example, who's always in the Champions League or Europa League.

640
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: They're always playing some sort of European competition. Maybe they

641
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 4: have a match against Barcelona coming up on a Tuesday,

642
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: they're playing a Saturday night in you know, the northeast

643
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 4: of England on like a rainy pitch or something.

644
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: They could be caught looking ahead.

645
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: So those schedule spots and working some sort of you know,

646
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: like I said, pencil and paper handicapping angles into those

647
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: always are fun and they do end up working out,

648
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: I think more often than not, especially if you're betting

649
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 4: into into these big, big underdogs.

650
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: Anything to add on that anthony.

651
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Like any sports betting market, any market in general, the

652
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: principles of like buying low and selling high exist and

653
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: are certainly a big part of what we do on

654
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: our show and what we try to you know, figure

655
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: out when a team maybe peeking, figuring out when a

656
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: team has already and when a team has already hit

657
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: the floor kind of on like this is the cheapest

658
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: you're ever going to be able to buy Liverpool, this

659
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: is the most expensive man city's been all season. It

660
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: might be tying to bet against them, and then you

661
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: still lose anyway, because they're unbeatable last year, you know.

662
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: So there's no like tried and true like this is

663
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: the way type thing. But the you know, the bye

664
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: high and or by low and sell high is certainly

665
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 1: one of the principles that I still strongly believe in,

666
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: and that teams tend to regress toward their expected goals

667
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: totals over the course of a season. So if a

668
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: team is running really hot, you know XG versus goals.

669
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: So if a team has scored you know, fifteen goals,

670
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: they're finishing twenty eight percent above their x G it's

671
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: a very safe bet. There is always exceptions, and there's

672
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: always one or two every year that kind of don't

673
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: regress in the course of a season. But you'll see

674
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: teams that will start hot and then it's like, oh,

675
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: this team can't finish well. No, that's just kind of

676
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: how it works. These things can tend to balance out

677
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: over the course of a long season, and trying to

678
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: predict kind of where a team may be headed based

679
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: on that is one thing I like to do as well.

680
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: All right, we are winding down here on the Experts

681
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: Guide to Betting Soccer on the Action Network podcast, but

682
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: a couple more things before we go. Let's touch on

683
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: the increased popularity of prop betting. How has that impacted

684
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: the market?

685
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: Mike, Yeah, I think like in any other sport, the

686
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 4: and and the advent of legalized betting, and in the

687
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 4: United States, the derivative markets are are starting to get.

688
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: More more popular.

689
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 4: And for me, I love betting any time goal scorers

690
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: or first goal scorers in soccer. It's a fun bet.

691
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 4: It's it's a type of bet that you should kind

692
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 4: of temper your expectations with. It's it's more fun than

693
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: it is looking for and grinding out like expected value.

694
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: But I look for teams.

695
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: One of my favorite angles is to back center backs

696
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: on teams that are good on set pieces for example,

697
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: like I mentioned, I'm an Everden fan, so so players

698
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 4: like like if Michael Keane was playing HEREY mean as well,

699
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: like if those guys were in the lineup last year,

700
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 4: I would have them circled because they're looking just to

701
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 4: put the ball into the into the mixer and hopefully

702
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 4: the bounce goes their way. And those guys are usually there.

703
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 4: Anthony can can tell you he's much more of a

704
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 4: robust prop better. He gets into the weeds a little

705
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 4: bit more in terms of like shots and possession stuff,

706
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 4: So I'll flip it over to him. But I like

707
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 4: to just play into those kind of big, big prices

708
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 4: on first goals and any goal scores.

709
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah for me, Like anytime goal scores have become very popular,

710
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm betting Earling Holland to score at

711
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: minus one forty, Like no, thank you. There's a pretty

712
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: big hold on those markets, and I don't bet them

713
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: a ton. It's a one way market. You can't ever

714
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: bet a guy to not score, which I think is

715
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: telling in a way. So I don't bet a ton

716
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: of any time goal scorers. If I do, it's it's

717
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: more what Michael does, where it's like, oh, you know,

718
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: for some tactical to or for some reason, you know,

719
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: this player I think is gonna be much further forward,

720
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: or they're gonna get a bunch of set piece opportunities,

721
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: and this is the player that could benefit. So at

722
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: eighteen to one or something, I'm gonna throw a couple

723
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: bucks on, you know, a guy for some fun something

724
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: to watch. If I don't really you know, have another

725
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: bet and I want action and whatnot, And I think

726
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: that's fine. I like, I just don't get the allure

727
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: of betting, like most solid to score at odds on

728
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: in a match when he's not. You shouldn't really ever be,

729
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, odds on unless they're playing one of the

730
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: worst teams in the league. So those are the kind

731
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: of things I don't get into a ton. But corner

732
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: props are popular as well, like which team will have

733
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: more corners. You'll see that a lot. It's just so

734
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: game stay dependent. If a team is minus three hundred

735
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: and they're gonna be like minus two and a half

736
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: on the corners for the game, so they're the favorite.

737
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: Let's say they're at home. Whether or not you win

738
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: the bet is pretty much dependent on whether the corner

739
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: the team scores early or late. If the home team

740
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: goes up early, then the game kind of evens out

741
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: a little bit. The underdog has come out and play more,

742
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: they're more likely to get corners, and so your BET's

743
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: in trouble if they score early at the home favorite.

744
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: If the home favorite is zero zero in this seventieth minute,

745
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: the underdog is gonna start playing for the tie. They're

746
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: going to be more defensive, and then the home team

747
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: may rack up the corners. But that's like not it's

748
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: hard to handicap, you know that kind of thing when

749
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: it's so game state dependent, like if a team is

750
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: tied or losing late versus if a team is winning.

751
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 1: It's a huge thing. So you're betting favorites on corners,

752
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: but they score early, you could be in trouble. So

753
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: I don't bet corner props a ton shots on goal.

754
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: You'll see this with teams. I'll do this occasionally if

755
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: a team is super reliant on getting one or two

756
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: big chances but doesn't get consistent shot volume. I'll generally

757
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: look to play against those teams that don't really hold possession,

758
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: and then possession props I have fun with those. Sometimes

759
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: you can bet over under percentage of possession for a team.

760
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: I'll do that in like some big matches World Cup,

761
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: where I think like a team is clearly committed to

762
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: a tactical approach that will lead to certain outcomes, but

763
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: not a ton of props for me, just something fun

764
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: to kind of sprinkle on it. If it's like a

765
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: big match and I don't have other action down.

766
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: I would imagine that you could use some of those stats,

767
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 3: Anthony as well to inform whether or not you want

768
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 3: to live bet a soccer match. How do you approach

769
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 3: that and how should a gambler approach it?

770
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll see me live bet unders a decent amount

771
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: in the app in the app if you follow me.

772
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: You know, if I like a pregame under and a

773
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: team goes up an early goal, if I lean away,

774
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: then I'll I'll you know, let's say it's two and

775
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: a half and a team who is a favorite but

776
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: is not the most aggressive or expansive team scores early.

777
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: I'll look to play a live under just because I

778
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: think that team, you know, I trust their defense, but

779
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to continue to be expansive.

780
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: If you see teams, you know, score totally against the

781
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: run of play, maybe look to live bet against them.

782
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: Just make sure you're not betting huge in the holds,

783
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: like like a huge viig there, because you tend to

784
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: get that lot too. And then you know live comebacks

785
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: on underdogs. If you have a team like Leeds United,

786
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: for example last season in the league, they would often

787
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: go down, but they were very comfortable playing from behind

788
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: and would often retake leads and then blow it again,

789
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: you can get kind of better live prices on teams

790
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: that have these volatile back and forth kind of matches.

791
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing with live betting is just

792
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: kind of understanding tactics and approach and how a team

793
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: plays in certain game. States Newcastle last season, once they

794
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: got ahead, they were so dominant just because of how

795
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: they played. Their style was really conducive. If you picked

796
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: up on that early in the season, you could have

797
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: made a lot of money betting Newcastle all spreads once

798
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: they went up in games. But once you you know,

799
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: if you don't pick up on it, until the midway

800
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: point of the season, maybe it's not as effective, so

801
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: you kind of have to get in a feel for

802
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: how a certain team is going to play in certain

803
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: game states.

804
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: Why don't we end on this, Michael will start with you,

805
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: what is the ultimate thrill betting a soccer match?

806
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 4: I think the ultimate thrill is finding an underdog, you

807
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: like a big underdog, let's say, you know, five to

808
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 4: one or greater, watching them score that first goal of

809
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 4: the game off like a fluke, and then just white

810
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: knuckling through the next you know, eighty six minutes of

811
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 4: a match or something. Because soccer matches feel long. They

812
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 4: are long, especially when they feel longer when you're betting them,

813
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 4: and they feel even longer than that when you are

814
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 4: holding a big ticket on an underdog that has has

815
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 4: a lead, so not even winning the bet, but those

816
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 4: kind of thirty minutes in between, like if you get

817
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 4: an early goal from an underdog, a big underdog, and

818
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: those like thirty minutes between, like minute forty and seventy

819
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 4: are probably my favorite time as a soccer better because

820
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: you feel like you're you're like slowly getting to the

821
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: finish line and then you look and you're like It's

822
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: only the sixty six minute and I still have to

823
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 4: go through another twenty four plus stoppage time for this.

824
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 4: So that feeling of dread, I think is the ultimate

825
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,959
Speaker 4: thrill of soccer.

826
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: Once again embracing the struggle and the dread. I could

827
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: just feel the sweat, but also excitement. Anthony, what about

828
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 3: for you?

829
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is super sad and with the soccer

830
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: as the soccer one has come to. But I tend

831
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: to have unders more than overs, and I will say

832
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: there is no better feeling than when a goal goes

833
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: in and then like thirty seconds later, VAR, which is

834
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: the video assistant replay, They they say VAR is having

835
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: a check and then they start drawing the lines on

836
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: the pitch to see it. The guy was off sides

837
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: by like his toenail, or like his his big his

838
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: big toe, or like his his his shoulder was a

839
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: couple of centimeters off side, and then they VAR off

840
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: the goal. Uh, that's the that's the like you know,

841
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: in the spirit of the game. It sucks because it's

842
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's taking away a lot of joy from people.

843
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: But when you have the when you have the under

844
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: and you see the the VAR the guy does the

845
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: little rectangle, the reft does tagle with his hands, then

846
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: he puts his hand up for offside. That is the

847
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: kind of high that you dream of. But also just

848
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: any time that you get a swing in stoppage time,

849
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean you've already counted the bet out, you're expecting

850
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: a loss. You know, you're gas grasping its straws, trying

851
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: to get one last chance, and they score. It swings

852
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: a match for you. It's the best feeling.

853
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: Just live in for those replay reviews, so enjoyable. Michael

854
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 3: Leeboff and Anthony Dubundo, hosts of our Action Network football

855
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 3: betting podcast Wonder Goal. Can each of you just share

856
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: where we can find you on Twitter and or the

857
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: award winning Action app.

858
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, my Twitter account is the Big LEAPASKI with two

859
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 4: Ease and Action. You can find me at leapoff.

860
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: M Yeah, I'm on Twitter, my name at Anthony Dubundo

861
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: dabb U n d O. And then in the app

862
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: same name, same usion name. You can catch me betting,

863
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: struggling through Wimbledon and baseball. Right now and as we

864
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: get into getting ready for the next soccer season.

865
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: Well, once again, this has been our expert's Guide to

866
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: Betting Soccer edition for Michael Leeboff and Anthony Dubundo. I'm

867
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 3: Maria Marino. Thanks so much for listening, and also be

868
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 3: on the lookout for our other expert Guides to sports betting,

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Speaker 3: with episodes being released throughout the summer right here on

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Speaker 3: the Action Network podcast presented by FanDuel.

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Speaker 1: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly.

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Speaker 3: If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem,

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Speaker 3: help Us, Available twenty four to seven at one eight

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Speaker 3: hundred Gambler