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Speaker 1: When I make a list of the most popular things

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Speaker 1: we do on this show over the years. Having done

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Speaker 1: this for twenty years now, playing a Paul Harvey clip,

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Speaker 1: we up there, playing a Rush Limbaugh clip. Will be

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Speaker 1: up there, having doctor ed young On. We'll be up there.

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Speaker 1: Those are those are things, And and then I will

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Speaker 1: discover in my meanderings. Usually somebody will send it to me,

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Speaker 1: someone talking about a book of the Bible, a character

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Speaker 1: in the by person in the Bible, or a parable

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Speaker 1: or something of the sort, or what a verse means

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Speaker 1: to them. And I'll find, you know, some some Bible

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Speaker 1: teacher who explains that in a way that is compelling,

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Speaker 1: and so we'll we'll share those. And it's amazing how

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Speaker 1: many people will say, where did that come from? Where

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Speaker 1: do I find that? Because they want to they want

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Speaker 1: to listen again, or they want to share it with

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Speaker 1: someone else. And so it's something that we enjoyed doing,

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Speaker 1: and I intend to probably do much more of it

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Speaker 1: going forward because I enjoy it, and it seems to

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Speaker 1: be something that you enjoy as well. So someone sent

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Speaker 1: me an email and said, hey, you were at UH

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Speaker 1: when David Klingler was there. He was the superstar quarterback

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Speaker 1: went to the Cincinnati Bengals first round draft pick, and

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Speaker 1: I said, yes, we weren't buddies, but I knew who

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Speaker 1: he was. Obviously we all did. He was a big

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Speaker 1: man on campus. And I'm always interested in where are

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Speaker 1: they now? VH one did one? And this may be

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Speaker 1: my favorite where are they now? For somebody who I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what he was up to. He's teaching the Bible,

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Speaker 1: and from what I understand, he's done good at it.

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Speaker 1: I have gone on to his podcast, which is called

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Speaker 1: Teach Me the Bible. He has a website, teach Me

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Speaker 1: the Bible lives out in Brenham. But I got to say,

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Speaker 1: this guy is doing literally doing the Lord's work. And

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Speaker 1: I was so delighted to see what he used his

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Speaker 1: celebrity and his skill set for. And so we reached

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Speaker 1: out through mutual friends to ask him to come on

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Speaker 1: and talk about his ministry. And I am honored to

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Speaker 1: say he's with us now. David Klingler, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 2: Michael, good to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: So take me from in in ninety two, you're drafted

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Speaker 1: by the Bengals. We'll talk football in a moment. Raiders

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Speaker 1: ninety six ninety seven. Then you were on the practice

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Speaker 1: squad for the Packers. Football is over. Take me to

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Speaker 1: the next phase of your life. Let's start there.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, that's a great, great question. So so football

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Speaker 2: was over pretty much after my second year in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: I had had elbow damage, went to surgery and they

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Speaker 2: said it was care ending. And you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I realized was that football is not

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Speaker 2: a career. Unless you're a coach, then it's not particularly

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Speaker 2: a good career. You're just waiting to get fired at

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Speaker 2: seeing them me. But but then the question was what

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Speaker 2: do you do next? And uh, you know, what does

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Speaker 2: life look like after you know you're you You've done

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Speaker 2: everything that you thought you wanted to do and and

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Speaker 2: and so that was kind of how football came to

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Speaker 2: an end. And and I remember it was actually, uh,

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Speaker 2: this the first off season I had come back to Houston.

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Speaker 2: You know, we still had a home in Katie and

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Speaker 2: and the Oilers. That was back when the Oilers were

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Speaker 2: in Houston. And came back to the off season and

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Speaker 2: was invited by the fc A director of the Houston

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Speaker 2: area to go to the Oilers Bible study. And I

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Speaker 2: went to the Oilers Bible study. And a guy named

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Speaker 2: Body Bachham was teaching the Bible study and many of

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Speaker 2: you may know that name, and and uh, and we

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Speaker 2: got to talk and after the study, and he said,

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Speaker 2: you know, you need to quit football and go to seminary.

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Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, who in the world goes to seminary?

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Speaker 2: You know even know what that means. But that's kind

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Speaker 2: of how it started, you know. And uh, and just

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Speaker 2: an interest in the in the Bible, and and so

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Speaker 2: over the next maybe eight years he kept after me.

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Speaker 2: And and finally I had had a ranch out in

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Speaker 2: the Burton area Brenda Mary and uh, some some you

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Speaker 2: know person pulled in wanted to buy the ranch, and

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Speaker 2: so I sold it. And he said, well what do

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Speaker 2: I do now? I said, well, I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: to seminary. And that's kind of how it started.

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Speaker 1: So you had I think a thousand acres or more, No,

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Speaker 1: it was it was about five hundred little video. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well rail chat, that's a massive amount of Burton, in Burton,

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Speaker 1: in Washington County.

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Speaker 2: Well today, back then, you know, gosh, so I wish

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Speaker 2: I had a bought you know, you know, everything the

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Speaker 2: light touches back. If I hadn't known then what I

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Speaker 2: know now. But but yeah, we you know, my plan

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Speaker 2: was to go retire, shut the gate and uh, you

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Speaker 2: know and and know and just train some horses and

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Speaker 2: and my wife's plan was to raise our boys and

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Speaker 2: uh somewhere bigger than than Burton. And so we moved

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Speaker 2: back to the Kady area. Boys went to Sinco Ranch

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Speaker 2: High School and and really enjoyed it there. But but

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Speaker 2: you know how it is living in the town and

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Speaker 2: property taxes and traffic and people and all that, and uh,

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Speaker 2: and it was just time to get back out into

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Speaker 2: a little more space. And so we moved back out here.

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Speaker 2: We live in the Brenna Mary Now, okay, so that's

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Speaker 2: what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: You complete seminary, and then what's the next step at

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Speaker 1: that point? What happened?

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Speaker 2: Well, the reason I went to sim I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to be a pastor. I didn't want to be a professor.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even that wasn't even on the radar. I

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Speaker 2: just wanted to know the Bible. And and I remember hearing,

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Speaker 2: you know, I used to listen to the morning Christian

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Speaker 2: radio and Tony Evans was on, Chuck Swindall was on,

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Speaker 2: and they had two radio stations, right radio shows back

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Speaker 2: to back, and I listened to them, and then I

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Speaker 2: just happened to go to church on Sunday, and all

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Speaker 2: three of them preached the same passage, but none of

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Speaker 2: them said the same thing. And I kept thinking, you know,

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Speaker 2: who are you supposed to listen to? Here? You know,

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Speaker 2: you got the Catholics, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans, the Baptists,

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Speaker 2: and everybody's saying something different, and they're all saying in

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Speaker 2: some ways mutually exclusive things, and so who are you

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Speaker 2: supposed to listen to? And how do you know what's right?

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Speaker 2: And so I just went to seminary to learn the Bible.

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Speaker 2: I walked into my first seminary class, and this professor

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Speaker 2: just made the Bible so simple and so understandable. You know,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't versus an idolation, but these actually made sense.

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Speaker 2: You know, one sentence went with the next sentence, you know,

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Speaker 2: one verse went with the next verson and the book

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Speaker 2: started to make sense, and so it really captivated my curiosity.

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Speaker 2: I came home after the first night and and I said,

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Speaker 2: I want to get a PhD. And my wife's looked

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Speaker 2: at me, like, who are you?

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Speaker 1: You've been there one day.

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Speaker 2: One day, Yeah, one day, and that meant, you know,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty hour degree, and about half about

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Speaker 2: half of that degree was in was in the Dallas area,

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Speaker 2: so I couldn't take it in Houston. And we had boys,

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Speaker 2: and so I said, well, she said, how are you

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Speaker 2: going to do this? So I said, I'll get up

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Speaker 2: at three in the morning, I'll drive and I'll be

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Speaker 2: home you know, in the afternoon or evening. And and

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Speaker 2: it required learning Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic and you know,

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Speaker 2: and then for the PhD, French and German and you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you start piling up the languages and

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Speaker 2: you start to lose track. But it was just a

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Speaker 2: passion to understand what, you know, what did the Bible mean?

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Speaker 2: And then and then once I started to take theology

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Speaker 2: classes and church history, then it really be right there. Sure. Uh.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest. The site is Teach Me

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Speaker 1: the Bible dot com over This's the Michael Berry Show,

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Speaker 1: Locked and loaded, Loaded. David Klingler is our guest. He

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Speaker 1: was he wrote too many as a college quarterback at

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Speaker 1: the University of Houston, first round draft pick with Cincinnati Bingals.

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Speaker 1: But what he does now is far more interesting. The

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Speaker 1: website is Teach Me Thebible dot com. There is a

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Speaker 1: podcast that effect. We're talking about a fellow who arrives

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Speaker 1: at seminary. I mean, look, you don't get to be

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Speaker 1: a star quarterback and throw for almost ten thousand yards

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Speaker 1: in college without being a little cocky, right, So he

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Speaker 1: shows up the first day in seminary to catch you

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Speaker 1: folks up and decides after that, yeah, I'll go ahead

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Speaker 1: and get a PhD. Were you a good student growing up?

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Speaker 1: Were academics something? Because most athletes obviously weren't. Were you?

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Speaker 2: You know? I went to so at University of Houston.

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Speaker 2: I was in the business program, and it was a

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Speaker 2: great school. But thinks I would pick up things pretty quickly,

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Speaker 2: and so I didn't have to spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time at it. Now, if I was interested in it, boy,

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Speaker 2: it became a passion. And so, yeah, I could be

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Speaker 2: a good student. But I was interested in things I

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Speaker 2: was interested in. You know how boys are in the

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Speaker 2: things I wasn't interested in. I just had no interest in,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And so on a personal level, you were going to

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Speaker 1: seminary and driving back and forth and being a dad,

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Speaker 1: and I'm assuming you know, the sale of your property

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Speaker 1: out in Burton kind of you know, helped cover the

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Speaker 1: bills and hopefully you saved some of what you made

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Speaker 1: as an athlete. Were you were you, were you working,

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Speaker 1: were you earning a paycheck anywhere during this time or

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Speaker 1: just going to seminary, just going to seminary.

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Speaker 2: I just had totally devoted myself to learning the Bible,

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Speaker 2: not for any other really agenda or reason. I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to know the truth, so to speak. And I

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Speaker 2: was it is my second year of school, and the

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Speaker 2: the dean then of the College of Biblical Studies sar

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Speaker 2: in Houston, as some of the students was that, you

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Speaker 2: know that he was looking for some professors and people

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Speaker 2: to teach the Bible. And so he's asking the professors

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Speaker 2: at the seminary do you have any good students? And

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Speaker 2: my name kept coming up, and so he asked me

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Speaker 2: to teach, and so I just went in and taught,

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Speaker 2: you know, told others what I had learned that was

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Speaker 2: taught by my professors. A couple of years later that

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Speaker 2: Dallas Seminary asked me to teach start teaching biblical languages,

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Speaker 2: and then I started teaching Greek and Hebrew and Bible.

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Speaker 2: I was teaching actually at three schools before I had

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Speaker 2: finished my PhD. And which you know, they typically require

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Speaker 2: a PhD to teach, but they had made an exception

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Speaker 2: for me. So I was teaching at College of Biblical Studies,

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Speaker 2: at Dallas Theological Seminary, and then at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

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Speaker 2: And again, my passion was just to learn the Bible.

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Speaker 2: And I realized that it wasn't that complicated. Boy, we

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Speaker 2: sure make it hard, but it wasn't. It wasn't that

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Speaker 2: complicated to understand. And and maybe out of frustration, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, I wanted to teach others so that

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Speaker 2: they could understand it, so you didn't have to listen

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Speaker 2: to what somebody says. The Bible says that you can

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Speaker 2: actually open it up and read.

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Speaker 1: It and make sense of it well. And that was always, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a Southern Baptist, I am a believer

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Speaker 1: that I don't need a pope or anyone else to

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Speaker 1: translate for me. You know, it's in my language, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's my personal journey and it applies to me,

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Speaker 1: and no one needs to translate it for me. How

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Speaker 1: did you arrive at the concept of teach me the Bible?

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Speaker 1: Were people asking you that question because it's so simple

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Speaker 1: and so direct, And I think that that was part

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Speaker 1: of what I found to be the appeal when I

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny story. So we live out here

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Speaker 2: in Brenham, and so I met a pastor out here

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Speaker 2: and just wanted to help him, you know, succeed in

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Speaker 2: the pastor it. It's such a bad job. It's a

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Speaker 2: hard job unless you're called to it. And and so

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Speaker 2: we would sit on the porch and we would just

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Speaker 2: talk about the Bible, and he'd ask, you know, hey,

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Speaker 2: what about this, and so we talk about it. Well,

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Speaker 2: we hired a worship pastor and he came in and

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Speaker 2: you know, he had made the statement to him. He says,

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Speaker 2: you know, we teach the Bible and we sing heresy,

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Speaker 2: how can I learn the Bible? Because so many of

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Speaker 2: our Christian songs are such bad theology. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: why don't you just come sit on the porch with

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Speaker 2: us and talk the Bible? And he said, you know,

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Speaker 2: we need to make a podcast of that. And that's

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Speaker 2: how it started. So I said well, I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what that means podcasts, you know. He said, well,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about that. Well, I'll bring the microphones. We'll

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Speaker 2: set it up. And so he's our technology guy. So

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Speaker 2: that's what we do. We come in and and the

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Speaker 2: microphones are set up and they just ask questions and

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Speaker 2: I talk, you know, tell us about this book, and

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Speaker 2: so we walk through the book and it really is

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Speaker 2: a simple concept, but it's really had a great response.

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Speaker 1: When when folks who grew up in the church but

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Speaker 1: maybe have have drifted away, or or folks who go

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Speaker 1: to a church and as you know, this is very

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Speaker 1: common where the Bible is not first and foremost, and

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Speaker 1: they say, I really want to get I want to

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Speaker 1: go deeper, ine, I want to engage in personal study,

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Speaker 1: not church going personal study. Do you have an approach

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Speaker 1: as to a place to begin or what what is

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Speaker 1: how do you handle that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well it's really interesting that we so much

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Speaker 2: of so many people today come to seminary for just

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Speaker 2: that they've been involved in church, but they want to

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Speaker 2: learn the Bible, and so they come in thinking they

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Speaker 2: know a whole bunch of stuff that usually they come

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Speaker 2: up come in with their theology with their you know,

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Speaker 2: with their life verses or whatever it is. And and

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Speaker 2: when you ask them to explain what that verse is

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Speaker 2: doing with the sentence right before the sentence right after it,

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Speaker 2: they have they have they can't answer. And you hear

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Speaker 2: so often, you know, you start in the Gospel of

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Speaker 2: John or something like that. But if I handed you

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Speaker 2: any book, any any book, and said here, read this book,

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Speaker 2: well you would just start at the beginning. And and

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Speaker 2: that's where you ought to start. In the Bible, you

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Speaker 2: start at the beginning. You start in Genesis, and and

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Speaker 2: it's really a simple story. It's the Bible is the

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Speaker 2: revelation of God's redemptive history through you know, through through

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Speaker 2: human history. I mean, it's just in the beginning, uh,

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Speaker 2: creation fall and off the Lord goes to bring about

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Speaker 2: his promised deliverer. And you get to walk down that

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Speaker 2: trail with the authors as they tell the story of

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Speaker 2: god redemptive acts throughout human history, culminating in the person

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Speaker 2: of his son Jesus Christ. And so it makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 2: It's really simple to understand. But if we start in

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Speaker 2: the middle, or start with some verse, or you start

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Speaker 2: with some theological grid or concept or defense it becomes

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Speaker 2: really convoluted very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Although full disclaim, full disclosure and disclaimer on your part,

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Speaker 1: your expertise is your PhD is actually an Old Testament studies.

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Speaker 1: So I would I would argue that in terms of accessibility,

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Speaker 1: most folks can start in the New Testament with a

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Speaker 1: lot greater ease to at least get to develop comfort

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Speaker 1: in who we're dealing with here, whereas the Old Testament

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Speaker 1: can be, in my opinion, can be a little tough

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Speaker 1: or not to crack.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, so what happens is, let me start with

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Speaker 2: the Gospel of John. So John tell the reader why

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Speaker 2: he wrote his story that many other signs Jesus did

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Speaker 2: in the presence of his disciples which were not written

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Speaker 2: in this book.

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Speaker 1: Hold right there, we're up against the break. David Klingler

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Speaker 1: is our guest. The website is teach Me the Bible

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Speaker 1: dot Com and that is also the name of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: More than I have almost went the Lawless.

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Speaker 1: The Michael Arry Show. David Kleanler is our guest, football

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Speaker 1: star turned PhD in theology. Now Teach Me the Bible

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Speaker 1: dot Com. There's a podcast, Teach Me the Bible dot Com.

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Speaker 1: I noticed, let's talk about your team. I notice you've

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Speaker 1: got some folks. See if I can pull the page

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Speaker 1: back up here, You've got some folks that are associated

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Speaker 1: with churches who are part of I guess this podcast team.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what this entity looks like that you are

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Speaker 1: a part of. It looks like you run.

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Speaker 2: It's it's actually just a very small group of very

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Speaker 2: committed people. We our budget is next to nothing. And

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Speaker 2: and you know, you don't need a lot of money

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Speaker 2: to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion and

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Speaker 2: care for people. And and so there's still Porter phil

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Speaker 2: Is Uh, he's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship, Tim Webb.

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Speaker 2: Tim's the lead pastor at the church, and just a

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Speaker 2: wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends and and just

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Speaker 2: such a faithful guy. Alex Wolfe is actually one of

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Speaker 2: our PhD students and also a pastor at the church.

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Speaker 2: And uh. And then there's several men who I've trained

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Speaker 2: through the PhD program who are pastoring at other churches.

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Speaker 2: And and we all just have a passion to help

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Speaker 2: the people of God understand the Word of God. And

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Speaker 2: that's what brought us together and uh, and so that's

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Speaker 2: what we're what we're doing will teach me the Bible.

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Speaker 1: And when people engage in this and they want to

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Speaker 1: understand the word of God, how do you think that

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Speaker 1: changes them? How? What is their reaction after this? What

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Speaker 1: do you hear back?

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Speaker 2: Mostly just you know, thank you. It makes sense now.

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Speaker 2: And and I don't want any of the focus. I

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Speaker 2: always tell our students. I tell our you know, with

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Speaker 2: the seminay, we're training pastors, we're training professors, and say,

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Speaker 2: if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught

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Speaker 2: or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,

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Speaker 2: such a gifted communication or or you know, communicat or whatever,

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Speaker 2: you're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our

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Speaker 2: job is to bring attention to the Lord and to

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Speaker 2: his word. And and so that's really it when they

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Speaker 2: come up and they say, man, I really thought that

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Speaker 2: I knew Jesus, but this this just is is just

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Speaker 2: so eye opening. It's you know, thank you. That that's

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Speaker 2: that makes it worth everything we're doing.

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Speaker 1: You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: and I'm reading about it, and it's to teach me.

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Speaker 1: The Bible Conference twenty twenty five, and it says this

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Speaker 1: was an interesting line. I thought. Our mission is to

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Speaker 1: help the people of God understand the Word of God,

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Speaker 1: and when you leave this conference, you will be able

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Speaker 1: to open your Bible and understand all the epistles. Is

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Speaker 1: there a particular focus on the epistles? Why do you

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Speaker 1: mention that?

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Speaker 2: Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,

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Speaker 2: and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a

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Speaker 2: section of scripture and say, let's understand what this section

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Speaker 2: of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive into

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Speaker 2: six specific epistles, three Pauline epistles, three what we call

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Speaker 2: general epistles. And so we'll be doing Ephesians and Philippians,

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Speaker 2: James first, John first, Peter missing one of them. I

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Speaker 2: don't remember which ones. They're all running together. I think Philippians,

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Speaker 2: Upheesians of Philippians, and one Morgagell. We'll teach six of them.

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Speaker 2: But helping people understand, Oh this makes sense. I know

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Speaker 2: what he's saying now, and it kind of demystifies in

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Speaker 2: some in some way what Paul's saying. Paul just writing

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Speaker 2: to a historic group of people to address a historic situation.

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Speaker 2: Uh and uh and they go, wait a second, this

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Speaker 2: makes sense. I understand this now, and that's our goal.

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Speaker 2: That that is simply our goal, uh, in everything that

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Speaker 2: we're doing.

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Speaker 1: What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you

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Speaker 1: have a time of day, do you have a place

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Speaker 1: where you go? Do you have and I know you do,

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Speaker 1: to teach me the Bible in a year, which I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people have done. If not, your

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Speaker 1: course of courses and programs like that. You know, the

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Speaker 1: consistency seems to help folks, But what is your personal

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Speaker 1: Bible still your personal nourishment?

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, I tell people all the time, I

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Speaker 2: can't believe that I get to do what I do. Basically,

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Speaker 2: my day involves waking up or reflecting on what I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about all night. You know how it is

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Speaker 2: things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,

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Speaker 2: I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night, trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: what's going on there. And so I get to wake

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Speaker 2: up and interest reflect on the Bible all day, I do,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I use the Greek Hebrew Aramaic text.

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Speaker 2: There's a few sections of Aramaic in the Bible and

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Speaker 2: just try to understand it better so that it changes

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Speaker 2: my life and hopefully changes the lives of those around us.

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Speaker 2: And boy, we need more people who handle the Word

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Speaker 2: of God will to lead the church. Were in desperate need.

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Speaker 2: We are losing pastors. Not many folks are going into

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Speaker 2: the ministry. Why is that, Well, it's a great question.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's not a lot of glitz to it.

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Speaker 2: It's a hard job. People are hard to deal with sometimes.

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Speaker 2: I think one statistic I heard was that about ten

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Speaker 2: percent of our students, of our graduates that go into

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Speaker 2: the full time ministry, are still in ministry within five

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Speaker 2: to seven years.

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Speaker 1: And well, you know as well as I do, that

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Speaker 1: pastoring a church, tending a flock is a very different

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Speaker 1: undertaking and a more difficult undertaking than what might be

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Speaker 1: more considerate, you know, in the for a Joel ostein preaching,

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Speaker 1: whether that be on TV or in a megachurch or

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Speaker 1: whatever else. The concept of preaching is only one aspect

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Speaker 1: of pastoring. But the pastoring is is is tough because

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Speaker 1: you are really as tending a flock. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: where the heavy lifting comes in in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, And you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Swindle Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one

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Speaker 2: day I was talking with him and and there's so

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Speaker 2: many I've just benefited from, so many profoundly wise people.

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Speaker 2: But one day I was talking to him and I

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Speaker 2: just thanked him for his giant impact that he's had

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Speaker 2: in ministry. And I was thinking about, you know, his

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Speaker 2: insight for living ministry and radio ministry. And he stopped

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Speaker 2: me and he said, let me explain something to you.

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Speaker 2: You know, kind of like when you you you take

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Speaker 2: the little kid in your on your arms. You let

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Speaker 2: me explain something to you very clearly so you don't

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Speaker 2: misunderstand this. He said, you can impress from afar, but

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Speaker 2: you can only impact up cloth. And I think about

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Speaker 2: that a lot. That uh that that we've we live

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Speaker 2: in this world and you know, podcasts do it and

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Speaker 2: radio does it, and you can influence a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: But the amount of time that you can actually spend

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Speaker 2: to get to know someone and to to to get

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Speaker 2: deep into their life, and it's not many. And and

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Speaker 2: that's the that's the hard part of pastoring. We were

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Speaker 2: so driven by this megachurch model where we all want

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Speaker 2: to have the giant, biggest churches and the biggest ministries

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Speaker 2: and you know, the podcast that reaches millions and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. But you know, but in doing that, you

430
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Speaker 2: pass over the people that are right in front of you, uh,

431
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 2: that that you should be caring for, and you're not.

432
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 2: And and so pastoring is hard work and and and

433
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: it's not often met with the all the praises of

434
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: the world, and even the praises within the church. Often

435
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: it's met with criticism. And so it's it's hard work,

436
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: but but it's very rewarding.

437
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: One more segment with David Klingler, the King of Dan

438
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: and this other guy, Michael Barry. This is a kind

439
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: of guy you'd like to smack an ass. I found

440
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: out recently that David Klingler in a Where Are They Now?

441
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 1: Episode VH one style, who was the star quarterback when

442
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: I was at the University of Houston for the Cougars.

443
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: He was.

444
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following

445
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and

446
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: Andre to be the first dat Heyday of UH football.

447
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: And I found out that he went to theological seminary,

448
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: got his PhD. And now he's teaching in many different

449
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: roles and one of them is sort of a to

450
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: the general public, and it's called teach Me Thebible dot com.

451
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: You can find them online and a podcast, so if

452
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: you would like to do that, they do learn the

453
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: Bible in a year. They have a conference coming up.

454
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: I noticed, let's talk about the dollars and cents. I

455
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes, but it is

456
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: a part of everything we do. It doesn't appear to

457
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: me that you're trying to make much, if any money

458
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: off of this thing, because I noticed that the conference schedule,

459
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: a two day conference bee is a whopping twenty nine

460
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: dollars and you have to defray the costs of all

461
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: sorts of things to even put that on. Is that

462
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: a conscious decision of you know this this isn't a

463
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: business enterprise.

464
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is. And h and again I think

465
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: that you know, I want to criticize churches. You know,

466
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: we do need somewhere to meet and all that, but

467
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: for the most part, ministry takes no money. It takes time.

468
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: And so you know, when we said, well we need

469
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: to do a podcast. Well, how much does that does

470
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: that take? It takes some people who are committed in

471
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: some time, It takes a computer, it takes a couple

472
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: of microphones, and and folks sit in front of them.

473
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: And so really, you know, we can do this, this

474
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: whole ministry for a very very small amount. And I've

475
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: covered that expense, and and I love what Paul says.

476
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: It seems like we keep going back to the Corinthians,

477
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: but you know that Paul works in their midst and

478
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: and wasn't a burden to any of them. And the

479
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 2: reason why he does this is so that none of

480
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: them could say that his motivation was financial. His motivation

481
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: was for money. Everything that he was doing was for

482
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: the building up of the Body of Christ and to

483
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: benefit the church. And so our mission, so often mission

484
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: statements of an organization are are stated mission, but they're

485
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: not the real mission. Our real mission is to help

486
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 2: the people of God understand the Word of God. And

487
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: that's it, and and we want to do it. It

488
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: is a labor of love, and we want to do

489
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: it for as cheaply as we can to benefit the church.

490
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: So we don't you know, if you want to give,

491
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: great but you know, we don't need your gifts.

492
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where

493
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: you are. And I'm not building you up as perfect.

494
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: I know you would not be comfortable with that. It's

495
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision making

496
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that I

497
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: would consider to be very good decisions. To put yourself

498
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: the ledger of your decision making would be better than bad.

499
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: To put yourself in a position where you're proud of

500
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: your kids, you're happy in your marriage, your skills and

501
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: talents are being put to good use toward your faith

502
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes, and

503
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: you've done that over the years, and you talk to

504
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: young people, what advice Looking back now where you are

505
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd learned this,

506
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: wish somebody told me this, or these are some things

507
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: that really seem to resonate with young people.

508
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: I was so thankful Jack Party, you know, back at

509
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: our time at u of Ah. He was a man

510
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: of such unbelievable character. So many great men poured into

511
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: my life, and I really took what they said to

512
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: hart and it troubles me today that we've kind of

513
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: turned our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency.

514
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: You know, everybody is is a free agent. They're all

515
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: working for themselves. We're seeing this in college football certainly,

516
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: it's been around the NFL for you even in the

517
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 2: youth sports. You know, you got you got six year

518
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: olds play on select teams and you know they act

519
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: as a free agent. And in somewhere in our culture,

520
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: we need to learn the concept of individual sacrifice for

521
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: mutual benefit. That there is a mission and nothing worth

522
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: achieving is going to be achieved by yourself. It's going

523
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: to take a bunch of people, uh, single minded in

524
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: the mission to try to achieve something greater than yourself.

525
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: And and frankly, I think that's that's why Nick Saban

526
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: I think has left college football. I think that that

527
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: you know, increasingly it's become difficult in our culture to

528
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: find uh these in these places, and so we're not

529
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: interested in personal sacrifice. We're not interested in suffering, We're

530
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: not interested in doing anything that's hard, and so we

531
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: suffer because of it. That everything that's great that you

532
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: want to achieve in life is going to cause you

533
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: to suffer. It's going to be hard, and it's going

534
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: to take the help of others to do it. And

535
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: and so I'm so proud of my two boys, you know, coaching.

536
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not so sure that pastoring is the

537
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 2: most influential thing in our culture anymore. Maybe at one

538
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: time it was sports. I think is probably right at

539
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: the top of the list now And at least in

540
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: my life, my coaches had the biggest influence on me.

541
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: And so I'm so proud of what they're doing there.

542
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: They have devoted their their lives not to teaching football

543
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: x's and o's or bun and shoot or you know,

544
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: some offense or something, but teaching character. They're They're in

545
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: the character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud of

546
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: them to that.

547
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: You know, in my life, I think of the people

548
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: who have had the biggest influence and I still have

549
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,

550
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth

551
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: pastors and pastors and and and more of those were

552
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: outside the church than in. And I think if everybody

553
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: understands the role you have in raising young people, and

554
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: we see the results when we don't do our job.

555
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: And maybe that's an avuncular role because you know, our

556
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: brother or sister's kid needs somebody to talk to the occasion,

557
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: or maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion.

558
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people have been afraid

559
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: to do that, and we could spend a lot of

560
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: time on why that is. I'm going to ask you

561
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: as we part, to give me one quick memory of

562
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: play and ball at the University of Houston. That is

563
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: one you will always fondly remember a moment, a game something.

564
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: There was a play and I've talked to Andre about this.

565
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we

566
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: were there together, we were there at the same time.

567
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,

568
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.

569
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,

570
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre

571
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: was going to you know, as we were always at

572
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: the line calling the plays, and so he would kind

573
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: of wander out to the right and call the play

574
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: to the right, and then he would go to the

575
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: left and he would yell out to the receivers at

576
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: the left, and as he went out to the left,

577
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: we'd snap the ball and I would My job was

578
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,

579
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: who was the running back. And so I'm back there

580
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And you know,

581
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: we were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good

582
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: chance to win the Heisman that year, and he was

583
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: thrown for all kinds of of yards and touchdowns and

584
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: if he could catch a touchdown pass that would just

585
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: be great. And well, I was as nervous as I

586
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: could be, because you know, I had to throw this thing.

587
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: And so off he goes down the sideline and sure

588
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: enough he's wide open and thankfully through a decent ball.

589
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: If it'd been a little better, he to score it.

590
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: But but but he caught that thing going down the

591
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: sideline AND's just a you know, just a great memory

592
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: that I that I had.

593
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: And thank you for sharing that, David Klingler. Thank you

594
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: for sharing a few hours of your time with us,

595
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: and thank you for your ministry