WEBVTT - Tony Blair 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.200 This episode is brought to you by Me and M, 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.640 the British modern luxury clothing label designed for busy women. 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.360 Founded and designed in London. Me and M is about 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:13.000 intelligence style. Much thought and care are put into the 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.680 design process, so every piece is flattering, functional and made 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.560 to last forever. Me and M is well known for 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.040 its trousers and how I got to know the brand. 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.119 It's my go to for styles that are comfortable enough 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.520 to wear in the kitchen or the restaurant, also polished 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.040 enough for meetings. Me and M is available online and 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.760 its stores across London, Edinburgh, New York. If you're in London, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.040 I'd really recommend heading to their beautiful, brand new flagship 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.480 store in Marlevin, which opens on the twenty ninth of October. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.760 I'm often asked about the quality I look for when 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.480 interviewing a chef. Is it the way they make an 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:59.040 omelet own a fish, or perform under stress? For me, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.480 the answer is easy. The quality I look for is 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.600 quite simply curiosity. The world knows Tony Blair as a 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.319 visionary leader prime Minister. I know him as a close 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.880 and loyal friend, but most of all, he is curious 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.160 and the first dinner we had for him in our 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.960 home in nineteen ninety six, he went straight into the 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.319 kitchen to talk to a young, inexperienced chef, Jamie Oliver, 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.000 asking how he was making the rottolo di spinacci. Tony 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:32.000 Blair has been interviewed countless times, but tonight on Ruthie's 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.480 table before, we're going to look at his life and 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.479 his career through memories of food, food in politics, food 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.720 and family, And tonight the curiosity is all mine. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:44.520 Thank you, Bolle. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.440 So the recipe that you chose is grilled and roasted 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.280 wild sea bass. Would you like to read the recipe? 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.520 Sure a lot could have chosen fifteen different things. I'm 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.600 just delighted on this because I like it's kind of simplicity. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.680 Grilled and rose did wild sea bass serves four to 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:10.360 six one three kilogram wild sea bass. Two tablespoons fennyl seeds, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:16.519 two lemons, sliced parsley stalks, fresh fennel bulbs, trimmed and sliced, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.040 juice of one lemon, seventy five mil white wine, and 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:26.080 extra virgin olive oil. Preheat oven to two hundred degrees. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.720 Season the inside of the fish with fennel seeds and 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.840 season well. Brush the skin with olive oil, and grill 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.399 on a cast iron, ridged or oven grill for five 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.760 to six minutes on each side. Put the lemon, parsley, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.360 remaining fennel seeds in a roasting tin and lay the 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:49.480 sea bass over. Drizzle the lemon juice, olive oil, white wine, 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.000 and the remaining herbs and vegetables. Bake for thirty minutes 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.080 or until the fish is firm to the touch, delicious 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:58.080 with salsa verdi. 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:05.919 Thank you. I was really really pleased that you chose 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.520 this recipe because it's two methods. It's grilled, so you 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.160 have the chargrill on the outside, but then you have 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.079 the juiciness of actually taking it. Was there a reason 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.519 you chose it or did you just? 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.480 I often, if I'm in a restaurant, will order fish, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.440 just simple fish, and especially when when you if you 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.760 get a nice white fish, which I've just been in 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.320 Greece recently and they do that very well. You know, 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.320 take it from the sea and it's it's a white fish. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.680 You add a little bit of olive oil and lemon 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.880 and it's it's it's very simple, but it's beautiful and tasty. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.360 Yeah, that's I mean, that is the difference I think 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.800 between Greek, Mediterranean food Italian of the South of France 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:47.880 is that there's not a lot of sauce. You know, 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.840 you just have the great ingredient and then you trust 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:52.400 it to be It's. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.720 Like, yeah, and I think it's it's you know, it's 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.880 fantastic when you're the food is just very simple but 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.200 well cooked, well prepared, and you know, it's things like 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.440 if you even if you're like a tomato salad, it's 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.000 a very simple thing. But if the tomatoes are really 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.040 nice and it's done with a nice dressing on it, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.120 I mean it's beautiful. So I'm I'm not a great 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.360 one for very fancy sources, to be honest. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.120 Although sometimes to go to Paris and have a delicious, 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.279 well kind of turbot with the bourblog not that. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.280 And by the way, one thing I always say to 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.760 people because sometimes people say to me, what's your favorite 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.680 type of cooking? Yeah, and I say I don't have one. Yeah, 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.839 I mean I like good food. I appreciate good food. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.080 And I could eat Thai, I could eat Japanese and 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.200 eat French, I could eat Italian, I could eat Greek, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.960 and I could eat English or Scottish. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.159 So Downing Street is in office, it's a public space, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.000 it's a governmental space, but it's also a home. And 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.120 you were there with young children and you presumably they 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.839 came home from school and you sat down to me 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.320 or did you not. Did you have a certain way 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.480 that this was work and then you would have family 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.080 time at the weekends. Was there a sort of routine 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.600 or structure for being a family. 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.840 Or before going into Downing Street. I mean, we did 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.160 have a much more structured life, but then once you've 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:21.080 become premnise to frankly, your schedules just packed, and so 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.480 at the weekends usually when we were through and checkers, 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.239 we would eat all together and that would be great, 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.960 But otherwise it was pretty hand to mouth. When my 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.479 kids knew I was coming on this podcast, they said 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.760 to me, are you going to tell them that you 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.159 used to cook for us and that your cooking was terrible? 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.520 And I said, well, now, what I might just do 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.880 is just say that the meals I cooked for my 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:51.800 children were memorable. Memorable, believe it at that? So yeah, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.520 I mean no, Downing Street was just too busy. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.240 There wasn't a Maybe there still isn't a Downing Street 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.640 chef that hooks bakfast lunch and there wasn't I know 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.840 at the White House they have the residents, and I 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.640 know that the State Department is very careful with ambassadors 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.919 about what they can spend on parties and food. But 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.320 to have the Office of the Prime Minister, you would 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.120 think that there was a yeah. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:19.719 And by the way, in our embassies you can eat 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.120 very well in British embassies abroad in the Elisa you get. 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.040 I think it's a high quality for naturally and very 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:27.200 traditional French cooking. 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.760 You didn't give very many state dinners at Downing Street 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:31.520 that you would know. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:32.360 I didn't. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.839 At the Palace, I. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.240 Almost took the view with we didn't. I mean occasionally 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.040 I would do it and if someone really wanted to 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.680 have a dinner. But I with other political leaders, I mean, 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.360 I just know what I feel like. You know, when 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.400 you're engaged with the political leader, I mean, you know, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:50.880 maybe you have a drink together and so on, and 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.279 maybe you do have a meal together occasionally, but you 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.920 want to do business. You want to sort out the 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.119 business of the day. And then if you're a foreign 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.560 leader and you're visiting and you're in London, and you know, 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.599 maybe Franklin would like to go out and spend some 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.240 time with you, your friends or colleagues, and rather than 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.760 be within the formality of these dinners, which on the 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.920 whole I never felt yielded a great deal. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.560 Was there any in your memory that wasn't in China 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.440 or in Russia, or in Germany or France. Was there 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.240 a steak dinner that really well brings in memory? 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.000 There wasn't a state dinners where the head of state, 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:28.960 So the only state dinner in the UK would be 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.760 the Queen obviously giving the dinner, and where again the 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.840 food is pretty good actually, but I do remember one 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:44.320 really memorable meal. So France and the UK and Germany 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.640 we were all together in this consort HM to build 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:54.760 the airbus three eighty okay, and we visited Toulouse, which 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.360 is where part of the plane was being built, and 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.360 so the leaders all went there, and she actually was 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.680 the president at the time, and I remember we after 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.600 we visited the plant and saw the plane and so on, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.120 we sat down and we had a I think they 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.679 called it a cash It was complete. 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:14.560 What was it like? 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.920 What was was just with with the beans and the beans, yeah, 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.440 and the sausage and it was unbelievably good. And the 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:26.200 funny thing was, so Jacques Shiaq, who's you know, a big, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.600 big figure and someone I actually, despite our disagreements politically 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.000 from time to time, I liked greatly. But the strange 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.679 thing about Jacques was he didn't drink wine. He's a 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.520 French president, didn't drink wine wine, and I don't think 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.280 it was very interested in food. I mean, I'm and 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.360 so I was saying to it this. He was talking 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.079 to me about the airbus three eighty and I was 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.760 saying to him, Jacques, you gotta understand this food is 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.040 absolutely unbelievable. And I think he's always a bit eccentric 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.440 after a time, because I was calling the chef over 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.400 and talking to him and saying like, okay, that is 0:08:59.440 --> 0:08:59.959 a memorable. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.520 I went to Richard and I were living in Paris 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.719 and David Owen was given a dinner at the k 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.800 Doors and we were invited. We've been to various dinners here, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:19.480 but that one was there was a footman behind every plasma. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.640 Everyone had their own liveried footman behind you in the service, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.520 and the grandeur of the palace was it was something 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:33.960 to behold. What about in Buckingham Palace? Was that more? 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.000 Did you ever have to have the Queen to Downing 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.199 Street or would you always go to the palace? 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.760 Well, we did once at the Queen to Downing Street 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:46.280 when all myself and the other prime ministers people have 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.480 been prime minister, we all had a dinner with her. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.560 She said, well you all know each other anyway, But yeah, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.400 that was I don't remember the details of it. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.440 And now on your travels, you know, coming up to now, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.200 do you have a kind of ROUTINEO Do you have 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 a way that you eat when you're traveling when you 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.320 know you're taking a long flight? Do you eat on 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:10.360 the flight or do. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.960 You mean will I mean I will eat on the flight. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.679 But I think if I go to anywhere, I mean, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.400 you know, for example, in the Middle East, I will 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.560 try and if I've got some spare time, then I 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.120 would try and have a dinner in a good restaurant. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:27.959 And what is it like the food is it? 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.679 I mean a lot of the restaurants you get in 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.640 the in the Middle East will be restaurants where they're 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.280 serving international food if you like. But I think one 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:37.920 thing that's happening around the world is a lot of 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.920 you know, you get emerging new cooks and chefs cooking 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.360 traditional food from their culture, but they're doing it in 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.600 a much more innovative and exciting and interesting way. I 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.320 had a actually a great meal not so long ago. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.360 Because my institute now works in over forty different countries, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.480 we're very busy around the different parts of the world, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:02.560 and we've we have project in Guyana and there was 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.280 a restaurant there that it was suggested I went to 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.880 because I said, I knew I had an evening free 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:11.120 in the capital city, and so I said, it's a 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.719 really good restaurant eating And they said, well, you know, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.120 there's this place in the place, but the very best 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.000 food is this place the backyard. But it's not suitable 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.560 for you because it is literally a backyard. I mean 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.439 it's someone's it's a small house and it's the backyard. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.160 It was a backyard. But the chef was fantastic. There 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.040 were fruits that I'd literally never tasted before, and the 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:37.160 food was just exceptional. And I think wherever you are 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.720 in the in the world, you can today you will 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.000 find people who are innovating in food. And I think 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.440 it's a very you know, it's a very good and 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.360 healthy thing. And I often say to the leaders I'm 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.800 dealing with, if you are giving a dinner for visiting 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.280 foreign leaders, serve your local produce and your local cuisine, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.480 don't you know. I remember when I first went to China. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:02.960 Used to go there and they would serve you Western food. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:07.000 They'd serve you a very sad looking lamb chop, and 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.840 I in the conversation with him, saying, you've got one 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.280 of the great cuisines of the world. Serve that, which 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.800 I think they do far more now. But it's an 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.680 important thing if you want to showcase your country. The 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.360 cuisine is an important part of the culture. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.640 The River Cafe Cafe are all day space and just 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.600 steps away from the restaurant is now open in the 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.120 morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti, chiambella and crostada from 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.520 our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon, ice creamed coops and 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.880 River Cafe classic desserts. We have sharing plates Salumi, misti, mozzarella, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.080 brusquetto red and yellow peppers, fortello, tonato and more. Come 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.040 in the evening for cocktails with our resident pianist in 0:12:53.080 --> 0:13:04.560 the bar. No need to book. See you here. You 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.560 grew up in Edinburgh, right, well. 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.480 I went to I was born in Edinburgh, I went 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.440 to school in Edinburgh. My family came from Ireland, but 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.200 we spent a lot of time in Glasgow, so it 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.880 was and then Durham in the northeast, so we were 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.000 kind of a bit of a mix. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.600 And what was the food your memories of food in 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.360 your house? Who cooked? 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.599 So my mother cooked? And I mean I knew it 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.800 was coming on the podcast and going to speak to you. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:33.000 I could remember some things. And then I asked my 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.280 brother and my sister for the any of their memories, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.400 and oh, my good. As a whole there was a 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:44.360 whole explosion of yeah, yeah, so and I completely forgotten 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.760 things like my mum cooked curries, which is quite unusual 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.480 for British people to do in the nineteen sixties. She 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.679 introduced me to cachery. She did a wonderful toad in the. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.480 Hole sausage with kind. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.960 Yeah, you know, the classics she had. 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.240 She did she have a career, did she work? 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.679 No? But she was actually a super good cook. Yeah. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.280 Sounds like in your house, what would you do? Come 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.480 home and start doing your homework and then have dinner 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.400 around the table or every night. You'd have to know 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:17.200 pretty much. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.640 And I always remember when we would go in the 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.560 seaside was not so far away from us, in the 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.960 northeast of England, and we'd occasionally go up to from 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.320 Durham to Northumberland and go by the seaside and the 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.880 great treat was to stab fish and chips in the 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.000 in the car at the end of the of a 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.040 day when usually it was too cold to swim. But yeah, 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.240 but she was interested in food and all sorts of 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.880 memories came back about tell me pineapple upside down cake, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.400 baked Alaska she did, which is actually quite I think 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:56.800 quite difficult to do probably, But. 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:57.280 What would that be? 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:57.880 What year? 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:58.840 What decade was that? 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.080 It's all been the sixties, early seventies. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.640 And would she have come from a home that cared 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:05.360 about food or. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.880 Well, she came from her father who died when she 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.560 was quite young, was a farmer, actually a Protestant farmer 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.920 in the south of Ireland or in the Republic of Isoland. 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:21.320 And then when he died, her mother remarried a butcher 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.960 in Glasgow. So we always had you know. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.720 Good that was your step grandfather. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.040 Yeah, that was my step grandfather. And I remember he'd 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.640 had an accident when he was young, so he was 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.640 he had hit a limp and walk with a stick. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.560 And some of my earliest memories were going down to 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.240 the Glasgow meat market with him when he would go 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.640 and you know, you go down these great rows of 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.520 carcasses hung up and he would tap them with his 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:52.040 stick and decide which ones he wanted to take his business. So, yeah, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.520 they say, And my grandmother cooked as well. You know, 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.040 she cooked stews, roasts, I mean, very traditional stuff. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.200 But to grab in a house where one night you 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.920 had bachel ask and one night you heard pineapple offside 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.240 down cake and tone on the whole and a curry 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.200 so it was a currie. Do you think that was 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.440 just from her ambition to cook or did she Yeah? 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.240 And I think it was because she was I mean, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.480 I mean I think at the time not many people 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.120 were making curries. I mean obviously later it became completely different. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.320 I think she had the funny credit cookbook. Yes that's mine. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.160 I have a chef here who has said that she 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.760 was from Wales. In her she and her mother entertained 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.160 she had to do those kind of rolls of butter, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:34.440 and there was a kind of I think there was 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.960 probably a resurgence you know, of cooking maybe in the 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.240 sixties after also probably after the terribleness of rationing. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:47.280 Yeah, they were rationing the war. Yeah, but people people did. 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:53.080 The great leap forward in Britain I think came later 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.520 the late days nineties. It really started then and then yeah, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.000 because I mean Britain say you can eat well. But 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.560 there was a time when Franklin it was a struggle. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.800 But I never come down hard on British for that 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.280 because they did come from a war and they came 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.080 from rushing, and so I always say cut them some 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.200 slack when people say how food bad food was until yeah. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.919 It was also I think there was this thing at 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:20.440 the time. I remember I used to have this debate 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.600 quite often because I represented then a Northeast constituency near 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:28.320 to where I was brought up. And you know, now 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:29.840 it is much much better, by the way, but at 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.480 the time when I first came there, I mean, the 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.480 food was poor. And I used to have this debate 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.160 with people where they'd say, yeah, but you know, working 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.000 class people, they're not so interested in fancy food and 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:42.840 all the rest of it, And I was just say, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.199 I can't believe anyone's my interest in food. And you know, 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.879 it's a ridiculous piece of snobbery to think that if 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.320 you come from working class background, Okay, maybe you can't 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.359 afford some of the fancy dishes, but why would you 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:56.840 want to eat bad food rather than good. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.960 For And it's very patronizing and as you say. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.680 And it turns out it's wrong because now a lot 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:07.440 of these places have got good, good pubs, restaurants and do. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.760 Well did you go out to restaurants as a child? 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.959 Would your parents take you out occasionally? They for special 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:15.000 occasions or would. 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.280 You but yeah, we'd have to be pretty special occasion. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.000 And then when we would go on a holiday to France, 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.640 for example, we would we would eat in restaurants there 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.320 and that was that was great. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.520 That So your parents took you to Europe? Did you 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.600 as a child? All three of you? 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.520 Yeah, well three of us, and we would drive down 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.000 there and usually rent a little place. And certainly then 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.480 in a lot of the small villages. We used to 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.600 go to the Pyrenees a lot, and the small villages 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.119 there you would you would go to a restaurant that 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.760 wouldn't really be a menu. You just sometimes you'd sit 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.680 at a long table and they'll just be whatever they had, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:47.600 But it was always good. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.399 What did your father do? What was his? What was his? 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.439 So my father was a lawyer. He was also an 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.080 aspiring politician, and he was a conservative in fact, and 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.520 he was head of the local Conservative association. And then 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.880 just before the nineteen sixty four election, he was going 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.760 to become an MP. He'd been selected for a good 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.920 Conservative seat and unfortunately he had a very serious stroke 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.560 that kind of ended his career all together. How old 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.480 was he He was forty. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.040 Now hit a stroke when he was forty. 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.639 How old are you ten? So it was quite a 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.200 big moment for our family, obviously, because all our circumstances 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:32.399 changed overnight. But I know he then lived for another 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:34.520 almost half century. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.080 Actually I was able to travel to France and take 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:37.600 you on trip. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.399 Yes, I mean he never fully recovered, but he recovered 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.560 enough to better work again and so on. But I 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.239 remember conversations around the table. My earliest political conversations were 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:51.600 around that table where they have aspiring conservative politicians would 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.360 come and pay him a visit because they would want 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.520 nominations in the local constituencies. And so on, usually young 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:03.280 conservative those who wanted to be MPs. So some of 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.440 my earliest conversations around politics, which is absorbing that, I guess. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.239 Yeah, as a child to be around the table. I 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.280 did an interview with Valerie Biden, President Biden's sister, and 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.200 she described having that that was orchestrated in a very 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.080 there were I think six children, There was a very 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.440 Catholic Irish family, you know, and that every night there 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:28.479 was a conversation about a political issue. Did that meals 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.280 around the table? Did that matter to you? 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.240 Yeah, I mean it was, it was. I guess my 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.600 earliest political memories were doing that. I mean I wasn't 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.680 particularly part of the conversation that I was just listening 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:39.840 to it, but I was aware of it, and I 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.200 remember things from it. And I remember some of the people. 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.680 That came and your mother would cook them and the 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:47.600 children would be there'd be present. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.720 I mean I was sort of feeling that my mum 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.000 was not fully signed up to the conservative course. Actually yeah, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.240 I mean she never sort of expressed a view particularly 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.840 on it, but that was always my impression. But you know, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.640 the food to which would cook the food. 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.560 Obviously when you were young, we went to boarding school 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.879 at what age thirteen? Was that a big change for 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.639 you to go from these very domestic, cozy dinners, family 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.320 dinners to a boarding school. 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.200 I mean the absence of good food was only one 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.000 of the changes, as it were. It was quite a 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:26.879 I mean, look, I always say to be like, I 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.680 got a good education at the school, so I'm grateful 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:31.879