1
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: There was a woman at his office. Wells always carried

2
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,479
Speaker 1: his red bandana, put it on his office desk, and

3
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: she said to him one day, Wells, what is it

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: with that red bandana? Why are you carrying that red

5
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,119
Speaker 1: bandana all the time? And Wells just smiled her and

6
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:19,959
Speaker 1: picked it up and held it up and he said,

7
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: with this red bandana, I'm going to change the world.

8
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 2: I'd believable.

9
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,880
Speaker 1: Yep, Eddie did, and he did and he is doing it.

10
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,279
Speaker 1: And I say to young people, I said, don't let

11
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: anybody take your power away from you. Don't do that.

12
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,839
Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

13
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,

14
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach an

15
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 2: inner City Memphis. And the last part it somehow it

16
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 2: led to an oscar for the film about our team.

17
00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 2: That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems

18
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: just are never going to be solved by a bunch

19
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 2: of fancy people and nice soups using big words that

20
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 2: nobody ever uses on CNN and box for rather by

21
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,680
Speaker 2: an army of normal folks. Guys, that's us, just you

22
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,919
Speaker 2: and me deciding, hey, I can help, And that's exactly

23
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 2: what the late Wells Crowther did. On September eleventh, two

24
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 2: thousand and one. This twenty four year old saved twelve

25
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,119
Speaker 2: of the only eighteen survivors who were at or above

26
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,520
Speaker 2: the floors where the plane struck the World Trade Center

27
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,000
Speaker 2: South Tower, and he could have escaped too, but he

28
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 2: was helping even more escape on the ground floor when

29
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 2: the tower collapsed on. Wells is known as the Man

30
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 2: and the Red Bandanna because that's what he wore that

31
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 2: day and had with him every day since he was

32
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 2: a young boy when his father gave him a red bandana.

33
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 2: Cannot wait for you to meet his mom, Allison, who

34
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 2: pays tribute to him. Right after these brief messages from

35
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 2: our general sponsors, everybody, something really cool about the Wells

36
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,800
Speaker 2: Crowther interview is we did it in front of a

37
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 2: live audience, which we're starting to do more and more of.

38
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 2: But this particular episode was done at the Stand Together

39
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 2: Headquarters in Alexandria, Right, Arlington, Arlington, Well right basically DC

40
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 2: here all right, a Stand Together headquarters. They've got this

41
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 2: really awesome studio and Well's mother, Alison joined us there

42
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 2: in front of an audience, and it's a well produced

43
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 2: video as well, so in addition to all the other stuff,

44
00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 2: we hope you'll check that out as well. But together,

45
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,800
Speaker 2: if we stand together as an army in rmal folks

46
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,799
Speaker 2: and just pretty amazing stuff. Hey, Ala, did you like that? Perfect?

47
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 2: All right? I think we got the stamp up approval

48
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 2: from Alo, so we're good. We're good today. Alison Crowther

49
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 2: I pronounced that correctly, Yes she did. Okay. Allison is

50
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 2: going to talk about her personal member of the army,

51
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 2: her son. She is from Nyack, New York, Upper Nyack,

52
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 2: New York, and Alison kind of tell us what Upper Nyack,

53
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:50,559
Speaker 2: New York is. I picture, you know, I picture quintessential

54
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 2: town squares and Norman Rockwell paintings. But maybe I'm wrong.

55
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for inviting me here today.

56
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm honored to be here and be able to talk

57
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 1: about my son. And Alex knows me from the past

58
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 1: and so deeply touched. Upper Nayak. It's maybe not what

59
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 1: you think. It's a really interesting community. It's very diverse.

60
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: The tiny little place that is the village of Upper Nayak.

61
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 1: It's a mile square approximately there's a mom and a

62
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: pop shop across the street. It's still called Hortels, but

63
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 1: not for long. It's finally being taken over after many,

64
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 1: many many years. And then the village hall and a

65
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,280
Speaker 1: Empire Hook and Ladder fire company, and that's pretty much

66
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 1: it for Upper Nayak. We're close to the village of Nayak,

67
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: which is the town that you're sort of envisioning. Lots

68
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 1: of restaurants, it's kind of a hot spot. A lot

69
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: of people think it's like a little Greenwich village. I've

70
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: heard that before. Really, yes, yeah, But the Nayaks are

71
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: along the Hudson River.

72
00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 3: But there how far from New York City. Oh I

73
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,159
Speaker 3: don't twenty miles? Oh no, not far at all. It's

74
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 3: Rockland County is at the western Nayak. The Nyaks are

75
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 3: at the western foot of the tap and See Bridge

76
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,279
Speaker 3: now known as the Mario Cuomo Bridge.

77
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 1: Oh, but there are people that want to change it

78
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: back to the tap and See Bridge, And I heard

79
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 1: actual rumors at one point there was a judge that

80
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 1: wanted to rename it the Wells Crowther Bridge. But of

81
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,040
Speaker 1: course there are too many families with nine to eleven,

82
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, significant losses that that would ever happen. So,

83
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 1: but the tap and see bridge is what everybody really wants. Anyhow,

84
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,359
Speaker 1: Nayak is a very diverse community. There are children that

85
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: grow up in projects in the middle of Nayak and

86
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 1: children that grow up in mansions along the Hudson River,

87
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,280
Speaker 1: and there's everything in between, different socioeconomic levels, different religious, cultural,

88
00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 1: racial backgrounds. And the wonderful part about that is that

89
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 1: respect for others is taught from a very early age,

90
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: from kindergarten on and even earlier programs. Professionals, we have

91
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:18,480
Speaker 1: a lot of medical professionals, law professors, attorneys, you know, doctors, lawyers,

92
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,599
Speaker 1: chiefs of industry and teachers and a lot of musicians

93
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,919
Speaker 1: and artists are also in that area, which gives it

94
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: a wonderful a wonderful feel.

95
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 2: It's a lot of culture.

96
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's just a wonderful place to grow up.

97
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 2: So you and your husband decided to make a family there,

98
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,040
Speaker 2: and you have how many children.

99
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 1: Well, we have two daughters. We had three Wells of course,

100
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,280
Speaker 1: and then two daughters. He was the oldest, and then

101
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 1: two daughters. Honor was two years younger than Wells and

102
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: very close. In fact, they were kind of competitive with

103
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 1: one another. Honor was a really fine athlete, and actually

104
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: she they all went to Boston College. Eventually she ended

105
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,719
Speaker 1: up playing on the women varsity lacrosse team, and Wells

106
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 1: was on the men's lacrosse team. And then our younger daughter,

107
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: Page was trained in classical ballet and very fine dancer,

108
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,240
Speaker 1: so she trained with Bolshak Russians and New York City

109
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 1: Ballet co people dancers, so really fine American ballet theater.

110
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 2: It's a shame your children are such low achievers, I know.

111
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 2: So let's pick up your Your husband's name is Jefferson.

112
00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 1: He was named after Thomas Jefferson. His father was actually

113
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 1: a Southern boy. Grew up in Lutherville, Maryland, and then down.

114
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: In Maryland as a Southern boy.

115
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 1: Oh okay, sorry, I beg your pardon. What did I

116
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: say your.

117
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 2: Dogg to a guy went to the University of Mississippi.

118
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 1: Oh boy, well, is North Carolina better? He was down

119
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: there too for many years.

120
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 2: Now North Carolina's fringe. It's all North Carolina got it.

121
00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 2: South Carolina's getting down.

122
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: But his father, Bosi Crowther, was film critic for The

123
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 1: New York Times for many, many years. For fourty years

124
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: legendary actually, and was credited with bringing modern film foreign

125
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: films to this country. So yeah, so he really was

126
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 1: also embraced history, and that's why he named his third

127
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 1: son Jefferson.

128
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:30,679
Speaker 2: I watched a small documentary that ESPN did on Wells

129
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 2: and your family, and it didn't go into why, and

130
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: I'm curious. At a very young age, Wells ran around

131
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 2: with a red handkerchief in his back pocket riding his bike.

132
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 2: Just had a red handkerchief. It was a thing. And apparently, Jefferson,

133
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,840
Speaker 2: your husband gave him a red can you I think

134
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 2: that's important in germane to what we're going to get into, obviously,

135
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 2: but what's the genesis of the red handkerchief?

136
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for asking. It's actually pretty simple. My

137
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: husband always used to carry bandanas in his back pocket

138
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 1: for missy jobs and that sort of thing. And we

139
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 1: were getting dressed for church one morning. Wells was wearing

140
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 1: a little suit and my husband was a banker, so

141
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 1: we always had a white handkerchief in his in his

142
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 1: breast pocket and carried bandanas in his back pocket for

143
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 1: the messy jobs. So Wells, little Wells, who adored his father,

144
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 1: said Daddy, can I have a bandana. Oh no, can

145
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 1: I have a handkerchief like you have in your in

146
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 1: your pocket? So my husband went to gay he said, yes, Wells,

147
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,679
Speaker 1: he goes to get one and pulls it out, and

148
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: he said, he just thought he'd get him a bandana also,

149
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: So he happened to grab a red one and he

150
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: put the folded up and put the white one in

151
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,320
Speaker 1: Wells's chest pocket, his breast pocket, and said, now, Wells,

152
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 1: this is for show. Don't touch it. Just leave it

153
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 1: right there. It's folded nicely. Leave it. Here's a bandana

154
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: that's for blow, for messy jobs, to blow your nose

155
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,320
Speaker 1: to whatever, and keep that in your back pocket. And

156
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 1: that's basically how it started. My husband kept the blue ones.

157
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 1: Wells typically had red ones, and that's how we told

158
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 1: them apart in the laundry.

159
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 2: So very simple, so very simple. And from a young age,

160
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,440
Speaker 2: it's like neighbors knew that that kid was always going

161
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 2: to have a red yeah bandana his friends did.

162
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 1: He always wore one under his helmet. It just became

163
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: a i don't know, maybe a talisman or some such.

164
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 1: It was his connection to his.

165
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 2: Father and that's very cool.

166
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it helped him. I think he felt like he

167
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: was a big you know, getting to be a big

168
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 1: man now because he had that white handkerchief and then

169
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: the bandana in the back.

170
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 2: So was your husband Your husband's a banker, yes, And

171
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 2: your husband was on the volunteer fire force, yes he was.

172
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 2: And Wells worshiping his father the old bandana thing. He

173
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 2: grew an affinity for the volunteer fire department in Niak

174
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 2: as a result of his father's involvement. Am I getting

175
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 2: that part right?

176
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yes. My husband used to take when Wells was little,

177
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 1: seven eight nine years old. He was small for his age.

178
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 1: He didn't really grow to his full size until college.

179
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 1: So he would my husband would bring Wells down to

180
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 1: the firehouse and they'd have clean up on the truck,

181
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,240
Speaker 1: and Wells would go into the little places to clean

182
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,480
Speaker 1: up where the other big men couldn't go. It was

183
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 1: just a thing, and a lot of the firefighters who

184
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: had sons would bring them in and they consequently became

185
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: full members like Wells did. Our daughter Honor was the

186
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,679
Speaker 1: first female member of Empire Hooking Ladder. Because there wasn't

187
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,680
Speaker 1: anything that Wells was going to do that she couldn't

188
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:52,319
Speaker 1: do better.

189
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:58,839
Speaker 2: Right, so did so Wells actually became a real live

190
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 2: hook and ladder of fire. Yes he did, Yeah, at

191
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:01,959
Speaker 2: what age.

192
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: Well, he joined as a junior member at the age

193
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: of sixteen and trained and went to the you know,

194
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 1: the fire training center and did all the training to

195
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: join the company, and then when he turned eighteen he

196
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 1: was a full fledged member.

197
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 2: As a mom, were you ever worried your husband, your daughter,

198
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 2: your son, were I mean we ever were they were

199
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,319
Speaker 2: going to get in trouble? No?

200
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 1: No, because they they I mean injury. I guess it

201
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,440
Speaker 1: is always possible, but they're very savvy about how and

202
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: well trained, and so it was not anything that that

203
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 1: really occurred to me, but really not. It was more well,

204
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: for example, Christmas morning, had the tree all set up,

205
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 1: the breakfast, the brunch maid, the presence under the tree

206
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: ready to and the fire alarm went off and out

207
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 1: they go, and it was like really and it was

208
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 1: a big fire, real big fire that had happened down

209
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 1: and so yeah, things like that.

210
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,320
Speaker 2: But in a town like nac if you don't have

211
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 2: people like your daughter, your husband in Wells, there's nobody

212
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 2: coming to answer that.

213
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 1: All right, that's right, and it's all Rockland County is

214
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,239
Speaker 1: all volunteer.

215
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 2: We actually interviewed about a year ago. I can't remember

216
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 2: how long. But she's like a big wig in the

217
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 2: volunteer fireworld. She's a captain and she's from the Northeast.

218
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 2: But I didn't realize that like seventy five percent of

219
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 2: all firehouses in the United States or staffed by volunteers. Yeah,

220
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 2: in urban areas, you're just used to having a firehouse,

221
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 2: But all over small town and suburban America are people

222
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 2: like Wells and your husband.

223
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real family. They you know, they they're

224
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: facing life threatening situations and they rely on one another

225
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: and they trust one another, and it's it's really amazing

226
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 1: how they come together for other reasons too, not just

227
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:05,319
Speaker 1: to fight a fire.

228
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors. But first,

229
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 2: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army

230
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 2: at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive

231
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 2: a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you

232
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 2: happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading

233
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 2: about our incredible guests, we'll be right back. It's almost

234
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 2: profound that as you hear the story of the benchmark

235
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 2: points of Well's life is something as simple as a

236
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,280
Speaker 2: red bandanna. But there was a benchmark because of his father,

237
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 2: and then being a junior fire fighter and joining, and

238
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 2: then also being a guy who was always protective of

239
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 2: his sisters and all of these things. How these benchmarks

240
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 2: culminated in a defining moment for Wells. It's as if

241
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 2: his whole life was a training ground.

242
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean there's stories.

243
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: His friends have stories, and we learned a lot of

244
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: the stories after he was lost. For example, high school,

245
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 1: and his friends would always say, if Wells was with us,

246
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 1: we knew he'd have our backs. High school, there's a

247
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: fight that broke out in the parking lot and between

248
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: a friend of Wells's and another young man who was

249
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 1: basically a troubled bad kid who ended up ultimately going

250
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 1: to jail and being killed or something. He was really

251
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: a troubled person. And there was a knife involved and

252
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: it was over a and so all these other students

253
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 1: were gathered around in the parking lot watching and Wells

254
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 1: walked up, walked into that scene, walked up to those

255
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: two boys and said to his friend, come away with me. Now,

256
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: what you decide to do now is going to determine

257
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, So turn around and walk away.

258
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: Ignore the surety.

259
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 2: How old was he He was well.

260
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 1: Senior night school, I think so most kids.

261
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 2: Most kids are jumping around raids going scream and fight, fight, fight,

262
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: And your kid walks in and says, not just Hayes

263
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 2: got a knife, walk away, but he says, what you

264
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 2: do today will impact the rest of your life. That

265
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 2: is serious maturity for an eighteen year old Kent.

266
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And these are stories that I mean,

267
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 1: we knew and loved Wells and knew he was a

268
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 1: good guy, but these are stories that serviced after he

269
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 1: was gone. You know, we really you know, never knew.

270
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 2: So he graduates Boston College and he lands what everybody

271
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 2: wants is as a finance job in Manhattan. It yeah,

272
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 2: tell me about that and where and how it all

273
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 2: worked well.

274
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 1: He actually was given an internship between his sophomore and

275
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 1: junior year in college. A friend of ours, her daughter,

276
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: also worked at sant Lorneial and was fourteen years older

277
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: than Well, so she was already established at the company

278
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,440
Speaker 1: and sadly she was lost on nine to eleven, which

279
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: was horrible, but she ended up Wells got the internship

280
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,160
Speaker 1: through her influence, and then when he graduated, that's where

281
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 1: we went to work at San Roneial.

282
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,400
Speaker 2: You know, I've got four kids. They are now twenty eight,

283
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 2: twenty seven, twenty six, wow, twenty five, Oh boy, meaning

284
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 2: they were one, two, three, and four.

285
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can tell, yeah, yeah, I know. How did

286
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 1: she do that? Oh man?

287
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 2: Two of them happen to live here. I'll be having

288
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 2: dinner with them after we visit tonight. And you know,

289
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,959
Speaker 2: I am so proud of each and every one of

290
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 2: them and love them. And I have to believe that

291
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 2: this kid that broke up fights, that was a captain

292
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 2: on the lacrosse or the hockey team, played lacrosse, went

293
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 2: to play Division one lacrosse, volunteered a time, grew up

294
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 2: in this diverse community with respect but care for everybody,

295
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 2: and now lands a job in Manhattan in the financial world.

296
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,879
Speaker 2: You got to be as a parent on Cloud nine. Yeah, yeah,

297
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 2: you did it. You raised a good one.

298
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I raised three good ones. We raised three good ones.

299
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget. You know, I always sort of

300
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 1: resisted feeling too good about things for some reason. I

301
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: don't know if it was. You know, just don't curse

302
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,719
Speaker 1: the good things, you know. Just but I'll never forget

303
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand and one, and I just

304
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: woke up one morning just so overjoyed that Wells had

305
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,160
Speaker 1: this great job, daughter honor had been given, was accepted

306
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: at Saint John's Law School with a twenty thousand dollars

307
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 1: a year presidential scholarship, and Page was rocking the ballet

308
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 1: world potentially, and I just just let it all go,

309
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: and I was just so happy. And then right, I know,

310
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,920
Speaker 1: but then look what happened nine to eleven.

311
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 2: Pal It was like it just I just don't think.

312
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 2: I don't think the world, God, the universe, any of

313
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 2: it penalizes you.

314
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: For being happy happy?

315
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 3: Do not?

316
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: I hope not.

317
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,239
Speaker 2: I do not. I think it's quite the opposite. I

318
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 2: think the world is broken in any of those good

319
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: things that come your way are just a blessing.

320
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I know, there are many blessings.

321
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: I don't really think it's lucky, you're cursed. I think

322
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 2: it's we're broken. You're fortunate for the few good things

323
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 2: you do get. Yeah, I think it's the reverse of it.

324
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 1: But well, thank you for that.

325
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what do I know, I'm just a

326
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 2: fat guy. For the house. I'm not ever going to

327
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 2: ice skate or be a ballerina, trust me. So things

328
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: are great. Yeah, and Wells has I mean, when you're

329
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 2: in the financial world in Manhattan and the center of

330
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 2: the financial universe, you have a potential to become a

331
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: very wealthy person, and this cat calls you all up

332
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: and says, you know, I'm pretty sure this isn't what

333
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 2: i want to do for the rest of my life.

334
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 2: Do you remember that conversation.

335
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: I'd never heard it directly because, oh, you wouldn't share

336
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: it with me, he called bad. Yes he did.

337
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 2: Dad must spend the soft touch, that's it.

338
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 1: Well, you know, yeah, and so because and I remember,

339
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: actually I yes, he talked to my husband about that,

340
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: and my husband's response was, Wells, you know you have

341
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: you take a big cut and salary if you do

342
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: that in big cut earnings, if you did do what

343
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: to become a New York's City firefighter, Because that's what

344
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: Wells was saying. I think I want to leave my

345
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 1: job and join the FDNY.

346
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 2: Who does that?

347
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: I know my son and so.

348
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: Sobody wouldn't do that. I'm going he had I'm guessing

349
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 2: he had to have had a really nice six figure

350
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 2: ish or better income with the possibilities of making so

351
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 2: much more. And this cat was to go be a

352
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 2: New York City firefighter.

353
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what he said, money isn't everything.

354
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: That's just what he believed.

355
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: That's it. Money isn't everything, he said. And I remember

356
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: him saying, if my husband said this. And I learned

357
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: that when in the ESPN I think was in the

358
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: ESPN documentary where they were interviewing him, he said, if

359
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: I sit in front of this computer for the rest

360
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: of my life, I'll go crazy. He was a very

361
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: active guy. He was physically active. He enjoyed being physically active.

362
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: And I just think he just felt constrained so and also, oh,

363
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to do correct.

364
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 2: Enough money about treadmill. I'm just kidding.

365
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: Well again, you know, he didn't share this with me

366
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: in the beginning, But what happened was his last weekend home.

367
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: He came to his college photo portrait arrived and in

368
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: that time, putting gel in your hair was a thing,

369
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: and so that's what he did. And he took me

370
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: over that his portrait was on our piano and he said, Mom,

371
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: he said, what do you think. I said, Well, it

372
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: looks you look very handsome. It's fine, he said, I

373
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: think I made a mistake with the gel. I said, no,

374
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: it's fine, you look wonderful. So I turned around. Was

375
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: it was Labor Day weekend. I was taking him back

376
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,479
Speaker 1: to the train to go back into the city, and

377
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: he stopped and I turned around. He said, you know, mom,

378
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: because he'd been very thoughtful, very introspective that whole weekend,

379
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: and he was spending time going through his albums that

380
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: he put together, going to the fireman's picnic, going to

381
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: see his sister in her end of summer performances.

382
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: You say, this is Labor Day, so we're talking like September.

383
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: One second.

384
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was that weekend and this his last

385
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: weekend home. And stopped and he said to me. I

386
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: thought maybe he was missing his girlfriend, which wasn't the case,

387
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: but he said this. They'd broken up. But he said,

388
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, mom, He said, I don't know what it is,

389
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: but I do know this. I know I'm meant to

390
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: be part of something really, really big. So I think

391
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: he had premonitions. He had been in Spain the summer

392
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: before on a working on the borst and learn the

393
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: stock market over there, spending time in Italy, and he

394
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: went with friends to a cathedral in Toledo that's very

395
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: famous apparently, I think it was Toledo, and he was

396
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: in there and he said, I read this in his diary.

397
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: But he also said to me, you know, mom, I

398
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: had this experience that was really powerful, and it was

399
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I had this sudden understanding. I was like transformed and

400
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: sudden understanding that my meant was my life was meant

401
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: for others, and it was I saw that later on

402
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: as kind of an epiphany somehow, and well that was

403
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: that was well, that was a big aha moment for him.

404
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: So I think that also contributed to him wanting to

405
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: be more in the in the fire department, which is

406
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: how he ended up on nine to eleven.

407
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: We'll be right back. So today's later is not eleven.

408
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: Wells is still working as I guess it was a trader, yes, okay,

409
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: well still working as a trader, but had basically made

410
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 2: up as my to become a firefighter. I think he was.

411
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: My guess is he was convincing his mom it was

412
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: going to be.

413
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, working out the script to tell me.

414
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, yeah, sure, and let's let's start with and

415
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: just go through it. The phone call you get from a.

416
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: Friend was I was at work. I was vice president

417
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: of sales for a company in Pleasantville, which was in

418
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: Westchester County, across the tappan Zee Bridge from where we

419
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: lived in Rockham County, and I was sitting with the

420
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: owner of the president. We were planning a business meeting

421
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: and that was going to happen the next week. And

422
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: her husband was a stockbroker, also working in Manhattan, and.

423
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: Her the World Trade Center elsewhere, oh elsewhere.

424
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 1: He was not there, fortunately, he was midtown. More so,

425
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: her phone rings. I'm sitting with her in her office.

426
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: Her phone rings, and she said, Alison, it's for you.

427
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: It's your husband's secretary. I said, oh, well, my husband

428
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: was supposed to go to a golf outing that day,

429
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: so I thought, gosh, that's gee. I wonder if Jeff

430
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: had trouble on the road or something happened. So I

431
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: go to pick up the phone in my office and

432
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: the secretary said, Alison, Wells just called. He wanted you

433
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: to know he's okay. I said, Wells, why wouldn't he

434
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: be okay? She said, didn't you hear what happened? I said,

435
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: what happened. She said, a plane hit the World Trade Center.

436
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I said, but Wells called, He's okay.

437
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: So that's in my head, and you know, like the

438
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: rest of the world, you're thinking that, how did that?

439
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: It must have been a small plane that went out

440
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: of Controner thought, right, too bad for them, I mean,

441
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: all of us all around the world except the terrorists

442
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: were thinking that probably anyway. So so I kept working

443
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: within my head and I looked at my cell phone

444
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: and there was a call that I'd missed from Wells.

445
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: It was like about nine seventeen in the morning or

446
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: nine nineteen nine night. Probably was nine nineteen because nineteen

447
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: was his lucky number. And he's saying, yes, yeah, he

448
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: always to see always as he could. You know, were

449
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: at Boston College when he was in Niak, And it

450
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: was just it was a message actually, thank god from that,

451
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: because if I'd actually spoken to him, I would have

452
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: said get that, you know, h double el hockey sticks

453
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: out of there, which he would never have done. But

454
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: he left a message, so we were able to capture

455
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: his voice and we have that recorded, thank goodness. So

456
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: it was just in my head he was okay, and

457
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: so I kept trying to work, and I went out

458
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: to hear, you know, because we didn't have a television

459
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: or radio, and it was a shop with offices in

460
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: the back. And I walked out and my coworkers were

461
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: looking at me like blanched white, and they said, the second,

462
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: you know, the second tower, the second tower has been

463
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: hit and a tower as towers collapsed. And I just

464
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: knew then that Wells was gone. I just knew that

465
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: was so I called my husband, crying, well, you know,

466
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Wells has gone. And my husband said, don't say that

467
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: he had plenty of time to get out, which he did.

468
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Turns out he could have left. He had plenty of

469
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: time to get out, and I couldn't imagine how you

470
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: get down from one hundred and four floors to ground.

471
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: But that was the start, and then we heard nothing

472
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: for a long time.

473
00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: So during that day between, wouldn't you think it's a

474
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: small plane And then you hear the second plane hits

475
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: and the tower collapses, and you have this, frankly mother's

476
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: intuition that your son has gone. Did you recall the

477
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: premonition you had only a.

478
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: Couple of days before, Uh not at that moment. Can

479
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: you tell us what that was okay, I'm happy to

480
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: September tenth. Oh, it was the day before, yeah, September. Well,

481
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: it started the day before September tenth. I was in

482
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: my office and went home and I'm in my kitchen

483
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: trying to work on getting dinner going my little my page,

484
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: who was a senior in high school at the time,

485
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: and my husband in the kitchen, and suddenly I just

486
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: like started to kind of shake in this like there's

487
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: something so and I never used the F word, but

488
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: I was thrown around that night. There's something so effing wrong.

489
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I just feel

490
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: like I felt like I was flying apart in a

491
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: thou and pieces really yes, yeah, I said, I don't

492
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: know what it is, but I feel like there's something

493
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: really wrong.

494
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: So I went down physically, mentally.

495
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: Everything, every it was all one like thing. It's hard

496
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: to it's hard to describe, but I just I just

497
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: was really just shaking. So I went downstairs to.

498
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: No apparent reason, no.

499
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: Not none. So I go downstairs to work on my

500
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: laptop and I start to reach for the keyboard and

501
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: suddenly the whole thing just fries like and I thought,

502
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm going to go to bed.

503
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: I'm shaken. I feel like the world's falled apart, and

504
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: now my computer crashes. I don't go in to sleep.

505
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: We'll start tomorrow, right the hell with the day. I

506
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: don't blame you, Like what else are you going to do?

507
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: Either that or drinking?

508
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: Well? And yes, yes, so I wanted to try to

509
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: avoid that. Okaper, I feel like Scotch neat buddy perfect anyway.

510
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: Well they meet about the day. Was your Scotch.

511
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: Anyway? So I go to bed. I didn't sleep all night.

512
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: I belonged to a fitness club over in Westchester near

513
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: where my office was. So I got up and I'm

514
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: got dressed and I said, I'm going to go work out.

515
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: That'll help. So I'm on the chappen Zee Bridge. It

516
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: was I don't know, around seven o'clock in the morning

517
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: of September eleventh, and I'm still like white knuckle driving,

518
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: like I'm just like so tense. I couldn't figure out

519
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: what it was.

520
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: Do you think you're having like a little bit of

521
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: an anxiety attack over work stuff or it's just just

522
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: you just can't explain what's going on.

523
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: Well it wasn't. I knew It wasn't work because I

524
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: didn't get ever exit you know about that. It was

525
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: fun and I enjoyed it, so I couldn't figure it

526
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: out what it was. But anyway, so I'm driving across

527
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: the bridge this and suddenly into my head come these words,

528
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: I know what this means. I'm going to die today.

529
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: And the minute those words came into my head, I

530
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: felt like my chest opened up and a brilliant mist

531
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: and light shot out of me. And now I'm this

532
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: little bean shaped thing above my hair, still driving along,

533
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: but I was at complete serene and utter peace, just

534
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: filled with peace. And suddenly, oh well, I'm going to

535
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: die today, but it's meant to happen. It's supposed to happen.

536
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: Oh well, I wonder how it's going to happen. I

537
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: was like so objective about this message, and then I

538
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: started thinking, where did where did? Where did that come from?

539
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: It felt like it came from outside of me, but

540
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: it was inside at the same time. It was just

541
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: I'd never experienced anything like that point.

542
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: If you realize people hearing that are like, come on, yeah.

543
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: I am, but it's what it is, It's what happened.

544
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: So I want you to know to be clear, absolutely

545
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: believe everything you're saying. After interviewing people's loans I have,

546
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: there are simply things that happen or our brains and

547
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: our lives and our spheres that we cannot understand. Yeah,

548
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: but I don't want people to think you're kookie. I

549
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: want people to hear you say. I get people not

550
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: even understand this, but I don't care because this is

551
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: my experience.

552
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: That's right, That's basically what it is, and it's okay.

553
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: A lot of people will believe me. Other people don't,

554
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: and it's just there where they are. I don't care

555
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: because it's what happened. So anyway, I keep driving now,

556
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: thinking well, this is better. I'm going to die today,

557
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: but it's better than what I've been going through. And

558
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: then I thought, wait a second, I'm planning a business meeting.

559
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: Why should death be better better planning a business meeting.

560
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: I'd better go see a doctor. Okay, that was my

561
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: big takeaway, and then I'm drying. I took a short

562
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: cut through reservoirs behind a town called Terrytown. It's usually

563
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: very peaceful, but that morning there were thousands of upspiraling

564
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: mists on either side of me. When I drove through,

565
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking and they were all the same height, thousands,

566
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: and I remember looking at that and thinking, well, I

567
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: don't know what this is, and I don't know how

568
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to die, but I do know this much.

569
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: Today is a very evil day. That was the message

570
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: to me. And I actually had another friend saying to me,

571
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: who was in Nyak and lived on a home overlooking

572
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: the water. She said, did you see what the water

573
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: looked like today? It was so strange looking. So I

574
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: don't know what she saw, but that's what I saw anyway,

575
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: So I kept driving. Now, if anybody wants to question,

576
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: I've had premonitions since I was sixteen years old. Started

577
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: with simple things like, you know, a boyfriend breaking up

578
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: with me that was a complete surprise, now of the blue.

579
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: I ended up bursting into tears one night with no

580
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: idea why. And then the next day this fellow broke

581
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: up with me just as well. Turns out anyway, Yeah,

582
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: I know it was misguided youth anyway, So and then

583
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: you know, then it was, oh, I know, my friend's

584
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: going to have her baby. You know, like really, you know,

585
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: things like that that are just could be coincidental, But

586
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: as time went on, they became more organic and real.

587
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: So another time Wells and Honor were a Page wasn't

588
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: born yet, so Wells was maybe five, Honor was about three.

589
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: My in laws had a country a summer home up

590
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: on Martha's Vineyard Island, and it was in, you know,

591
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: end of June. I think we would stay there for

592
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: the month of July. And I for like three weeks

593
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: before we were going on this taking them up, I

594
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: kept having these pounding, recurrent visions of driving off a bridge. Boom,

595
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: driving off a bridge, and I thought, this is really ridiculous,

596
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: like what is going on here? So I finally I

597
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: didn't want trouble my husband, but I finally said, you know, Jeff,

598
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm bigginging to think maybe I shouldn't drive the kids

599
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: up to the vineyard because I keep having these visions

600
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: of driving off a bridge. And he said, well, you know,

601
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: just do whatever you think is right, okay. So I thought,

602
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: all right, this is ridiculous. I'm not going to be

603
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: controlled by some weird crazy thinking. We're going. So I

604
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: packed up, got the kids in the car. The two

605
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: bridges I was worried about was the Tapenseee Bridge and

606
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: the Essex River Bridge up in Connecticut, which is a

607
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: big long bridge over the Essex River. So I drove

608
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: over the Tapenzee Bridge. It was fine, drive along, drive

609
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: along through Greenwich, through up through Connecticut, get over the

610
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: Essex Bridge and I and everything was fine. I get

611
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: on the we get on the ferry. We get to

612
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: the vineyard safe as can be. And I called my

613
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: husband about seven o'clock and said, Hi, we're here. Everything's fine.

614
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that I worried you. This was really ridiculous.

615
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: We go to bed next morning. My phone rings at

616
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: about six thirty in the morning, seven, my husband calling.

617
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: He said, did you hear what happened last night? I said, no,

618
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: what said? The Miannis River bridge collapsed. We went over

619
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: that bridge probably, I don't know, six seven, eight hours

620
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: before it collapsed. So I get these things, and I

621
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: have learned to embrace them as it is. I can't

622
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: explain why or how I get these things, but I do,

623
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: so maybe that will help.

624
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Please tell me you're not thinking about a fat redhead

625
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: bob plus ontday.

626
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: No, you're not fat, and you're very handsome, and.

627
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: You'll be fair anymore to old thing. Yeah, and that

628
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: concludes part one of my conversation with Alison Crowther and guys,

629
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: you don't want to miss Part two that's now available

630
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: to listen to Aila, Alex's youngest daughter. And I really

631
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: wants you to go to part two, don't you, Yeah,

632
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: so tell them go to part two. Ring the Bell perfect,

633
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: Alan and I will see you guys in Part two