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Speaker 1: The I Am Rapp Reports Stereo Podcast Live Get Down

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Speaker 1: with Rapp Report. Yes I am am a Rapperport. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I am am a Rapperport. Yes I am a Rapperport.

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Speaker 1: Yes I am. Better tune in Iron Rapp Report dot

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Speaker 1: com because every single podcast, you know, we drops bumps.

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Speaker 1: I've seen him on set a season vet with True Town,

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Speaker 1: catch him on his way to course fit rocking the

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Speaker 1: New Balance. He asked me to do the track because

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Speaker 1: you know I round the leak. But I'm just waiting

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Speaker 1: for the Robert the Neurro line of the week reference

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Speaker 1: the champions host the bagel, cream, cheese and lock. This

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Speaker 1: is I Am Rapp Report. The show never stopped. You

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Speaker 1: might catch the Mountain Public stretching his knees. But if

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Speaker 1: you don't listen to the show, yo, we're gonna plead.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna papp podcast. What's up? This is Michael Rapport.

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Speaker 1: You are now listening to the Iron Rapp Reports Stereo podcast.

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Speaker 1: On today's podcast, it is an old Wild Wild Old Country.

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Speaker 1: I Am Rapp Reports Stereo Podcast. I have the directors

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Speaker 1: of the Netflix documentary series Wild Wild Country, which I

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Speaker 1: am obsessed with. Is if you haven't seen it, I

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Speaker 1: cannot recommend it any stronger. It's bugged out, it's crazy,

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Speaker 1: it's wild, it takes twists and turns. I happened upon

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Speaker 1: this six hour docuseries which is on Netflix again. It's

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Speaker 1: called Wild Wild Country. Today, I have the directors two brothers,

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Speaker 1: Chapman Way and McClean Way. We're talking about the making

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Speaker 1: of this film, what happened now since the making of

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Speaker 1: the film, what it takes to actually make a documentary,

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Speaker 1: the dedication, the ground and pound, all that and more.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on a brand new Wild Wild Country. I

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Speaker 1: am Rapp reports stereo podcast Miles Jordan's let me get

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Speaker 1: something real funky. Let's just jump into this. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to have you guys here. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: the listeners who are gonna listen are excited because, um

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Speaker 1: this is the Wild Wild Country Iron Wrap course stereo podcast.

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Speaker 1: Uh with the Way brothers here. Thanks for having us.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, come on, man, I'm excited. I uh the

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Speaker 1: directors of Wild Wild Country. UM, I'll say, the newest

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Speaker 1: Netflix documentary series that is sort of sweeping the nation.

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean it's you know what I know,

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Speaker 1: you guys, you know you humble about it, but I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's really caught on. It was just released. UM.

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Speaker 1: I talked a lot about this um film on the

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Speaker 1: podcast right after I saw it, because I was just like,

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Speaker 1: what the fun And you know, it's hard to articulate

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Speaker 1: really what the movie is about because it's so long

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Speaker 1: and it covers so much and it's and I was

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Speaker 1: just so enthusiastic when I saw it, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, to have you guys here. The beautiful

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Speaker 1: things about a podcast is and the Internet is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, having some sort of

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Speaker 1: success and and the Netflix. Shaw was like, I love

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Speaker 1: this movie. I love this movie. I was like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, I gotta try to get these guys on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. So this is the first sort of time

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Speaker 1: I've done this. And it's two brothers, So that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us on. We want to love talking

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Speaker 1: about it. I mean, this is something that we spent

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Speaker 1: like four years of our life kind of making. It's

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Speaker 1: like you kind of have to be obsessive about these

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Speaker 1: types of stories. I think that like people are always like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you guys might be tired of talking about it, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We love coming on these things, especially

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Speaker 1: podcasts like Face to Face, you can really like dive

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Speaker 1: in and talk about stuff. And it's been crazy because

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Speaker 1: we made this thing just in like in a bedroom

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Speaker 1: at Mark Duplaus's office in Highland Park, and so it

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Speaker 1: felt like so small for so long, and then when

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Speaker 1: it goes on Netflix like globally, you get the kind

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Speaker 1: of an immediate reception it's been, it's been pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: Has it been like, has the response been sort of overwhelming? Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know, when you're making it

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Speaker 1: in someone's bedroom and it's the grind, the ground and

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Speaker 1: pound of making docs. You know, your first doc seemed tough,

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Speaker 1: but this just seemed like even tougher. Um, well, you've

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Speaker 1: made it doc. I mean just to even get it

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Speaker 1: to a point where the documentary makes sense is a

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Speaker 1: huge hurdle. I mean, just goes into making sure like

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Speaker 1: can people follow the story and then to like really

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Speaker 1: put in the extra time to really like make it entertaining,

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Speaker 1: make it thoughtful, provocative. Um, yeah, it was a real

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Speaker 1: grind for us about four years to do. How did

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Speaker 1: you come about the story? And I'm going to mispronounce

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Speaker 1: che I mispronounced the name so so please correct me

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Speaker 1: every time I did. How did the like the even

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Speaker 1: the origins of making this as a film in our

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Speaker 1: lives come come about? So our first documentary was on

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Speaker 1: the Battered Bastards of Baseball Minor League baseball team in Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 1: And so we had just wrapped that up in two

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Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, and we worked with a film archivist who

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Speaker 1: gave us the footage for the Portland Mavericks. And he

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Speaker 1: was asking us, you know, what are you guys doing

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Speaker 1: next for your project? And MC and I had a

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Speaker 1: couple of ideas, but nothing we were like two in

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Speaker 1: love with. And he basically said, like, look, I've got

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Speaker 1: this collection of three hours of archive footage on pretty

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Speaker 1: much what it is like the was batshit crazy story

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Speaker 1: that ever happened in Oregon. And so he started telling

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Speaker 1: us it was about this this guru and these ten

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Speaker 1: thousand followers that came here from India. They built this

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty million dollar utopian city. They took over

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Speaker 1: the neighboring town of Antelope. They armed themselves with with

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Speaker 1: assault rifles and busting thousands of homeless people and ended

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Speaker 1: up poisoning seven people. Are almost questioning him more than

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Speaker 1: the story. We were just like, we had never heard

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Speaker 1: of any of this, so we're like, there's no way

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Speaker 1: this is true or that this happened in America because

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Speaker 1: we would have for sure have known about this story.

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Speaker 1: And sure enough, we kind of went back and did

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Speaker 1: some light googling and everything he had told us had happened.

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Speaker 1: And so that was about four years ago, and we

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Speaker 1: just immediately dove in. Yeah, it was one of those

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Speaker 1: things too where I think after Battered Bastards had come out,

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Speaker 1: we've totally made that on our own, independently financed it

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Speaker 1: entirely ourselves, one a sports grant to make that like

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars, and we got it into Sundance, which

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Speaker 1: was just huge for us in our careers, and showed

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Speaker 1: it at Sundance. And Netflix was just they've been doing

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Speaker 1: streaming for a while, but like House of Cards had

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Speaker 1: like just come out, and so when the Baseball premiered

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Speaker 1: in fourteen Sundance Film Fest, it's changed. So I mean

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Speaker 1: today you would not need to explain like what a

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Speaker 1: Netflix original right back then you kind of did, right,

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Speaker 1: it was three years ago, right, that's how much is crazy? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so Netflix was at Sundance and they bought The

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Speaker 1: Battered Bastards of Baseball, and so right after that was

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Speaker 1: when this story came into our life, and we were

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Speaker 1: kind of getting pitched for the first time, and what

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Speaker 1: we what we were getting pitched was almost always sports docks,

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Speaker 1: if not baseball documentaries, and we're huge sports fans and

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Speaker 1: we enough, but yeah, especially after you finished the first stock, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to do something differently because we we

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Speaker 1: see ourselves as documentary filmmakers. We want to continue to

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Speaker 1: make documentaries, and we didn't just want to. I love

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Speaker 1: thirty for thirties, but I didn't just want to do that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so this story came along, and it

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Speaker 1: was complex and sensational and it had all these what

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Speaker 1: the funk moments in it, but at the underbelly too,

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Speaker 1: was like some interesting, complex topics that we were interested

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Speaker 1: in diving in, difference between a cult and a religion, minority,

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Speaker 1: religious rites, immigration bias, things like that, making you know,

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Speaker 1: even to think people that look like redneck biggots really

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Speaker 1: listening to them and understanding what their experience was like

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Speaker 1: in the story. And so for us what was interesting

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Speaker 1: is like the Jinks had like just come out on HBO,

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Speaker 1: but this was still pre making a murder O j

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Speaker 1: made in America. I hadn't come out yet like doc series.

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Speaker 1: We're still kind of this new emerging thing. But we

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Speaker 1: knew that we had to tell this as a serious

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Speaker 1: and so that was a big jump for us. Though.

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Speaker 1: How old you guys, I'm thirty one, Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm you have to um excuse me because I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: jump all over the place. And like I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: really fucking excited. And you know, there's so much ground

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Speaker 1: cover in my questions and I and I've never done this.

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Speaker 1: I even went on my Twitter um and asked if

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Speaker 1: people had questions. So throughout this interview, I'm gonna sort

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Speaker 1: of put it all together. And so what was the

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Speaker 1: first fifteen twenty half an hour minutes of film of

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Speaker 1: this archival footage that you saw that you were like,

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Speaker 1: oh ship. First, there was kind of two tapes that

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Speaker 1: really stood out. The first one was one the Guru

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Speaker 1: the Bob one first arrives in Portland's and we put

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Speaker 1: in this tape and we see all these people dressed

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Speaker 1: head to toe and red with the mala of the

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Speaker 1: picture of the goo around their neck and they're rolling

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Speaker 1: out this red carpet in the middle of downtown Portland's

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Speaker 1: and there got out a dust buster and they started

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Speaker 1: vacuuming the carpet, the red carpet, and then started placing

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Speaker 1: flowers down. And then there was a flutist. They had

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Speaker 1: a live flutist that was playing. And then coming around

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Speaker 1: the corners, this hundred thousand dollar rolls Royce pulls up

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Speaker 1: and this Indian guru walks out with this beard, three

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Speaker 1: ft beard, this huge gown and they immediately start bowing

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Speaker 1: and praying to him in tears start coming down the

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Speaker 1: faces of the followers, and so Mac and I were

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Speaker 1: immediately just like, this is incredible. What is going on here?

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Speaker 1: You know? Um? And that blew away. The set tape

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Speaker 1: that we then put in was their world festival. Every

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Speaker 1: year they had this world festival. Thousands of followers from

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Speaker 1: all around the world would come and it's like this

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Speaker 1: insane burning man meets Coachella. Their river rafting, they're dancing naked,

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Speaker 1: they're throwing these rave parties. But I remember thinking like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it looks like they've built a city in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the Organ desert. Like that was before before I

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Speaker 1: even knew anything, Like before I even I just saw

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Speaker 1: the tapes and it was I couldn't even say Rashni perum.

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Speaker 1: I was like you know what I mean, Like I

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Speaker 1: was coming to it for the first time too, and

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Speaker 1: it was just I remember my instincts being like how

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Speaker 1: many people are there and it looked like seven to

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Speaker 1: eight thousand at the world festival, because these Rashnis would

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Speaker 1: come from all over the world. But then my next

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Speaker 1: thing was, like I said, it was like, have they

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Speaker 1: built all of this out there? And then basically yeah,

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Speaker 1: I started googling around and everything that that archivist had

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Speaker 1: told us started checking out. There was this town take

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Speaker 1: over of Antelope they busted and homeless people, seven fifty

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Speaker 1: one people were poisoned with sam and Ella. And then

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Speaker 1: the next step that really kind of got us going

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Speaker 1: full steam ahead was when we started reaching out to

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Speaker 1: kind of more than just like our talking heads that

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Speaker 1: they are more like our cast of characters. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're kind of like the storytellers that are on the

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Speaker 1: front lines of this war that breaks out in Eastern

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Speaker 1: or more specifically, Sheila did you know first, Like that's

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Speaker 1: the first she was the first person going through the

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Speaker 1: archive footage. I mean, she was provocative, she was foul mouth.

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Speaker 1: She because she didn't take shipped from anyone. Um. She

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Speaker 1: was just a really dynamic female leader of this group.

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Speaker 1: And so we thought, Wow, what a fascinating, complex character.

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Speaker 1: We've got to hear kind of what it was like

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Speaker 1: for her to go through this this journey. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to get to Shield, but I got to

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Speaker 1: back up with the fucking rolls, right, because because you

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Speaker 1: know the roles like this movie, this documentary film, this

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Speaker 1: series that you put out. While I was watching it,

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Speaker 1: I was very like I was watching it on the

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Speaker 1: edge of my seat and I was piste off, but

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Speaker 1: both sides, Like I was like, there was many times.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that piste me off from the

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Speaker 1: beginning was his fucking roles. Yes, because in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, if you're a spiritual Google and you have

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Speaker 1: all these followers, forget a Honda Core, if we forget

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Speaker 1: forget even a BMW. To be a spiritual gurgle with

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Speaker 1: an obsession with rolls, Royce is the dichotomy. It just

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. Like in this day and age,

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Speaker 1: like if if you saw like some spiritual like we

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Speaker 1: would be able to document be like, oh, we look

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Speaker 1: at this fancy home. It's like one of these preachers,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like it begs the question like is this

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Speaker 1: a con Like I get like, what is this your

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Speaker 1: spiritual Google? But you got fucking a hundred thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: rolls Royce And at the end of his life, because

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Speaker 1: you told me before and because this wasn't I don't

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Speaker 1: think you said this in the documentary was what he

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Speaker 1: had in Oregon because when he went back to when

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Speaker 1: he fled the country and they arrested him, ninety three

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Speaker 1: rolls custom pain jobs. You should see the custom pain

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Speaker 1: there's one for Los Angeles for a million dollars. He's

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Speaker 1: one of his roles. One of his ros called the

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Speaker 1: black kimono. Black him. I just plugged the black Kimona.

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Speaker 1: It's it's about you can google it on. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: go up in sales. But the more doc sort of

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Speaker 1: catches life like and you know someone's gonna buy that

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Speaker 1: fun so it's pretty crazy. Look, but yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: basically the first guru, just like marry Western capitalism with

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Speaker 1: Eastern mysticism. He was kind of the first guru to say,

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Speaker 1: don't be ashamed of your wealth. You don't need to

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Speaker 1: be embarrassed about your wealth. And so a lot of

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Speaker 1: highly successful Westerners kind of flocked to his Ostro Montuna

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Speaker 1: because they were attracted to this message of to be enlightened.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to reject everything. You don't need to

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Speaker 1: reject sex, you don't need to reject wealth, you don't

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Speaker 1: need to reject alcohol. Um, you can live a path

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Speaker 1: of enlightenment while still enjoying all those things. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's like there's a few defenses i'll call them of

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Speaker 1: like the Worlds Royces, but there's obviously like some legitimate

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Speaker 1: criticisms about them too. One of the defenses and the

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Speaker 1: defenses are a couple of things there and this is

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Speaker 1: this is just what we heard while talking to members

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Speaker 1: of Rashnie Peram. One was that it was like a

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Speaker 1: little more historical and that like b Guan was raised

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Speaker 1: in India at the time of British imperialism and Rolls

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Speaker 1: Royce was like a very significant car of the British

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Speaker 1: imperialist It was like the height of accomplishment, luxury of

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Speaker 1: Western civilization. So I think specifically why it was a

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Speaker 1: Rolls Royce was. I think that there's a story of

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Speaker 1: Baguan seeing Rolls Royce when he was seven eight years old.

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Speaker 1: Um offense. That's just why I don't even think there's

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Speaker 1: like to change, Like nobody in their fucking day and

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Speaker 1: their hate. I think that Baguan was like I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it can be talked about or diagnosed really,

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Speaker 1: but there's like a collector syndrome that I've come across

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Speaker 1: with people with baseball cards or something like that, where

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Speaker 1: it's like you need you have a compulsion of collecting.

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Speaker 1: Because we didn't really get into the documentary, but it

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Speaker 1: just wasn't Rolls Royce is. He had these pens, like

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Speaker 1: foreign pens, Like he was obsessed with pens and calligraphy.

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Speaker 1: He would collect a ton of I really think it

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Speaker 1: was more like this is gonna get press, you know

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Speaker 1: it was he was the first one to be like,

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Speaker 1: people are going to talk about my meditations that I

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Speaker 1: like to do. Dynamic meditation isn't the sexiest topic to

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Speaker 1: talk about. Is that what he titled dynamic meditation to

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Speaker 1: what he invented, that was like his contribution to like

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Speaker 1: the world of meditation. But I think he thought these

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Speaker 1: Rolls Royces, it'll get me on talk shows, it will

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Speaker 1: get people talking about me, and through that they'll come

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Speaker 1: to learn about my spiritual teaching. So it was kind

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Speaker 1: of what I took away from it. Yeah, absolutely, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he lived a really unique life on the ranch in

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Speaker 1: the sense that he takes his foul a silence, kind

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Speaker 1: of just takes a step back, so speaks just kind

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Speaker 1: of chills in his awesome house on the ranch. And

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Speaker 1: one of his big activities that he did was he

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Speaker 1: drove about two to three hours every day he drive

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Speaker 1: off the ranch. He drive to this town called Madris,

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Speaker 1: which is about an hour and a half off the ranch,

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Speaker 1: and then back and that was his life that he

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Speaker 1: kind of lived. I mean, other than that, it was

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Speaker 1: probably the one area in the documentary that we didn't

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Speaker 1: have that much footage of, which was like Baguan's day

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Speaker 1: to day daily life. Cameraman, it was pretty much off

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Speaker 1: limits to camera men and we didn't have a ton

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Speaker 1: of footage of what his life was like. But for

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Speaker 1: some reason, like his joy and kick was definitely driving

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Speaker 1: around in his rules Royces, which piste a lot of

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Speaker 1: people off in Eastern Oregon because they like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like these are like kind of salt of the earth

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Speaker 1: people and they're looking out their window and for better

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Speaker 1: or worse, it might be jealousy, it might be envy,

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Speaker 1: it might just be confusion fusion, like because paint a picture.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that most of the people that are gonna

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Speaker 1: be listening to this have watched it, but paint a

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Speaker 1: picture of what the story is. The town looked like

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Speaker 1: at the time. It's like even when you're there, it's

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Speaker 1: a town of forty people, and when you're then forty

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Speaker 1: residents and there's basically one dirt road that goes through town,

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Speaker 1: and then there's kind of like one cross section that

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Speaker 1: goes through town. Like it's ship it's small town town. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean they have a church in town that they

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Speaker 1: all go to, and they have a school, they had

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Speaker 1: a cafe. They had one cafe which is kind of

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Speaker 1: the local center. Um, but it's dirt roads, and so

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Speaker 1: the image of this Indian man who they knew nothing about,

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Speaker 1: driving down the center of their dirt road in these

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Speaker 1: insanely expensive rolls Royce has just got everyone round. It

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Speaker 1: was it was the first time a Rolls Royce was

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Speaker 1: ever driven to Antelope and the last time a rolls

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Speaker 1: Royce will ever be driven in. It's like Bogwan rash

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Speaker 1: Niche and and then but yeah, basically, just to give

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Speaker 1: a little background, Antelope is this tiny town in eastern Oregon.

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Speaker 1: Um it's a population of forty and today it's around

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Speaker 1: the same. But but nineteen miles away was the largest

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Speaker 1: private piece of property in the Pacific Northwest. It was

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Speaker 1: called the Big Muddy Ranch, and it was for sale.

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Speaker 1: And basically this group of Indian followers and American followers

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Speaker 1: of this Indian mystic named Bagwan rash Niche, they come

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Speaker 1: to eastern Oregon, they buy this piece of property, the

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Speaker 1: Big Muddy Ranch, in one and they rapidly spent around

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty million dollars just churning this kind

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Speaker 1: of barren waste land of a ranch into their kind

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Speaker 1: of like spiritual oasis and the dead. And it just

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Speaker 1: a war ends up erupting in eastern Oregon. All right,

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Speaker 1: to back up with Bagwan, he's an he called the

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Speaker 1: Eastern mystic mystic. He's a guru. I mean, how does

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Speaker 1: someone get the classification? Did you classify himself? Can any

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Speaker 1: can I have to take self proclaimed? I mean he

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Speaker 1: said he's most people capture enlightenment right before their death

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Speaker 1: is the usual path to enlightenment. But Guan was rare

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Speaker 1: and that he said he achieved enlightenment at the age

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Speaker 1: of twenty one. He had an enlightenment experience, which is

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Speaker 1: in the spiritual world, very rare. He he took on

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Speaker 1: the name Boguan, which I believe roughly translates as godly

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Speaker 1: or the godly figure something like. That was the name,

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Speaker 1: you know, he chose for himself. And yeah, India has

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Speaker 1: a deep tradition of gurus. I mean, it's like, for

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Speaker 1: lack of a better word, it's one of their best businesses.

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Speaker 1: It's a big export that this country has had is

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Speaker 1: kind of Eastern spirituality, Hinduism, Buddhism. They have strong traditions.

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Speaker 1: Um and you called it as a business, it is.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely it's like and even today there's just like

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Speaker 1: huge controversies in India over what they call him god men,

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Speaker 1: like their god men, like they're kind of self broklid godman.

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Speaker 1: And I would say Baguan definitely fits into that tradition.

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Speaker 1: He was interesting in that he actually had a PhD

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Speaker 1: in philosophy, became a professor and kind of built a

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Speaker 1: following of like students of other people in Puna that

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Speaker 1: would come and listen to him lecture. And then the

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Speaker 1: transition was he started traveling giving traveling lectures, which is

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Speaker 1: what other professors kind of do also in the United States.

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Speaker 1: But then he makes this next transition in like the

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Speaker 1: early seventies where he is a self proclaimed enlightened guru,

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Speaker 1: a walking like enlightened being and he's going to set

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Speaker 1: up shot as an ashram. And an ashram is like

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Speaker 1: a permanent commune that's meant for seekers, people who are

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Speaker 1: walking a path of enlightenment, trying to reach enlightenment, trying

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Speaker 1: to raise their consciousness, breaking out of this karmic cycle

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Speaker 1: of death and rebirth. And that was the core of

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Speaker 1: their theology. And what about their theology and their beliefs

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Speaker 1: with the sexuality, because that's one of the things on

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Speaker 1: Twitter like is it a fun festy? You know, like

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Speaker 1: you know, because they you talk about it in the

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Speaker 1: dock and you know, like, but it's not fully like explored. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been kind of interesting because in the press that

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Speaker 1: you know, they're labeled as a sex cult, so that

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Speaker 1: immediately gets people like, what is this, you know, what's

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Speaker 1: this all about? You know, when we did our research,

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Speaker 1: Like the big philosophy was he didn't believe in monogamy.

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Speaker 1: He didn't he believed in open marriages, and so he

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Speaker 1: believed if married couples come that they should experiment sexually,

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Speaker 1: they should find new partners. They shouldn't be you know,

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Speaker 1: uh contained or constrained to just one partner um. And

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Speaker 1: so in the India days, this is pre them coming

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Speaker 1: to America. There are more stories of of orgies therapy

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Speaker 1: groups that counter groups with a lot of people being

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Speaker 1: naked and and and a lot of sex happening. But

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Speaker 1: the thing was like when they came to America, they

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Speaker 1: were spending so much time just building this city that

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Speaker 1: all of them said, like we didn't even have time

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Speaker 1: to like have sex, Like it was so intense and

402
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: so crazy that we were like labeled this sex cold.

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Speaker 1: But really it was like open marriage was kind of

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Speaker 1: like what we all believed in. You know. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like the satanic like sex fests happening. You know. And

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Speaker 1: what about Baguan is he is he had to pickle

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Speaker 1: a literally like like you know, the townspeople, I believe

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Speaker 1: talk about the look they all had this look, and

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Speaker 1: and and and I was watching it and trying to

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Speaker 1: be as biased as I possibly can, and I have

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Speaker 1: no judgment at the end, Like I really don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody was necessarily right at the end of the films.

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Speaker 1: But I when I when when you do that montage

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Speaker 1: of the look, I'm like, they all have that look

415
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Speaker 1: and and and to explain it to people are listening

416
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Speaker 1: to look like it's like there seemed very happy, almost

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Speaker 1: like they're hopped up? Or is there drugs involved? And

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Speaker 1: I don't want to because there's so many questions was

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Speaker 1: there drugs about because if you said that look today,

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Speaker 1: if you showed a picture like somebody with that look,

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00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: could be like he's he's smoking some of that high.

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00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Yeah. And my experience early on in

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Speaker 1: the ranch and like your average every day sun Yasen

424
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Speaker 1: was like not really on drugs. They were very like,

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Speaker 1: you don't need drugs, Like this is a new age community.

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Speaker 1: You're coming here to feel fulfilled without alcohol, without drugs

427
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 1: was the message they were selling. So they weren't selling

428
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: a message of like come here, let's drop acid, Like yeah,

429
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 1: but sure in Puna, India in the seventies, yes, there

430
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 1: are stories of drugs uggling, Like yeah, like we cann't.

431
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: It's not a part of their like a rave or

432
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: anything like that. But I would say like their devotion

433
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: to Buckwan when he would drive by in his rolls

434
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: Royces was religious ecstasy. I mean, it's comparable to kind

435
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: of like I don't know, I've I've seen videos of

436
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: Southern Baptists, you know, going like and people just like

437
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: the pope drives, but you know the pope had his

438
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: popemobile and he drives right, you're see it, and it's

439
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 1: it's very strange. People want I know it's it's it's

440
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: something that's hard because we struggled with it in the

441
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: sense of like it's hard to intellectualize in a way

442
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 1: that you're going to convince someone who doesn't feel that way,

443
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: and at some point we almost just ended up like

444
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: taking their word for it, like that they felt this way,

445
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: like you like you exactly a lot of people like

446
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: why didn't you go into the teachings, why didn't you

447
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: show this? And it's like it's not an intellectual thing,

448
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: it's it's an insight thing that these people felt. And

449
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: like Max said, like we didn't feel like we could

450
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: be there to judge. I mean, they all had this

451
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: try to pick it up, and interesting enough, we weren't

452
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: able to include it, but sort of. But even like

453
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: the federal prosecutors, even people who don't believe in it,

454
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: were like, dude, being in a room with that guy,

455
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: like there was something. There was some They all said that,

456
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: even the locals, I mean they understand who couldn't stand them.

457
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: They all said, there's just something that it's it's a

458
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: question of like if you believe that people have an

459
00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: inherent charisma, like there are some people and everyone's crap,

460
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: that's true. You're like, that's jager. I mean, certain people

461
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: do have this for you, Like I could see why

462
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: you're like people said JFK walked in a room and

463
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: like you could just feel a presence of some kind

464
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: that was him. So I mean not that I'm equating everyone,

465
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: but a celebrityction and and and it is true because

466
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: we could do it to movie stars, are athletes are

467
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: certain people? Um? Okay, the ranch um that they set up,

468
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: Um it was built with a hundred and ten million dollars.

469
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: Where did I mean we're talking about hundred ten million dollars?

470
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: Is a lot hundred ten million dollars in one is yeah,

471
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what the inflation or what the races.

472
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: Where everyone's been asking where did the money come from?

473
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: To answer this question, the hunt the estimation of the

474
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: ranch came from at the end of the ranch when

475
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: they filed bankruptcy and they did an evaluation of what

476
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: the land was worth, the buildings, how much money had

477
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: been spent, and bankruptcy court settles around a hundred and

478
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: ten a hundred million dollars. That was that how much

479
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: money had been spent. It wasn't ended up selling for

480
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: because they couldn't get that, but that was the estimation

481
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: through bankruptcy proceedings. So that's where that number crazy. But

482
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: the money there was like pretty much two components to

483
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: the money. One was he was the first Garreau to

484
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: kind of put his lectures and his discourses on tape

485
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: and books. So he had this worldwide publishing empire. I

486
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: mean they sold thousands of books around the world. And

487
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: so some of the money was just his earned money,

488
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: subscription money where it's like you would buy like not you,

489
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: but like a rash Niche follower, whether they were in

490
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: the Ashram or in Italy and Australia like our Berkeley,

491
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: they would buy the rash Niche tapes one through thirty

492
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: and he he gave two hour long discourses AM and

493
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: PM every day for about like eleven years when he

494
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: was an astrame like he was. It was like pre

495
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: Netflix almost. He was like it was a subscrip ruption

496
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: model and that was that was a source of income.

497
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: The other big we don't know exactly, and I think

498
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 1: the majority of the money component was donations. I mean,

499
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: these were highly successful people that came from very successful

500
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: A lot of people that used to that are in

501
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: the Dock, and a lot of people emptied their bank accounts.

502
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't and it wasn't a requirement to

503
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: be a part of this group. But if people had

504
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot of money felt like I'm going to live

505
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: the rest of my life in this community and I

506
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: want to donate my life savings to it. That was

507
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: That was the perception that I don't know if we

508
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: were able to totally capture in the Dock series, which

509
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: was people who felt who donated everything to come live

510
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: at rashness Perm they thought they would die there, like

511
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: they thought it was like they thought that we would

512
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: have they believed in this utopia that was like I

513
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: might not have a need for shelter and food, Like

514
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a part of a permanent commune

515
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: type of living situation. UM, so I am eager to

516
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: donate to this uh, to to this dream that we

517
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: are all believing in. And so that was a big component.

518
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: And then they would like do these They basically had

519
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: a global network of satellite communes UM that would also

520
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: kind of raise money and contribute to Rashni Peram. And

521
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: then also like they have the world festivals where it's

522
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: like ten thousand Sani Austins would come and drop a

523
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: lot of money to come to their big summer festivals.

524
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: In our research, the money issue didn't really come up

525
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: until the later years of the commune where the commune

526
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: wasn't as self sustainable as they were hoping to get,

527
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: and so Sheila was really putting pressure on members to

528
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: donate and donate, and it definitely created some you know,

529
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: fractures within that community of people. So like, hey, I

530
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: joined this for meditation and spirituality, and every time I

531
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: see Sheila, she's hitting me up from my check book.

532
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: So and but then does the talks a little bit

533
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: about that episode and Sheila's defense. She starts to talk

534
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: about like when the rolls Royces would get from thirty

535
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: to forty to fifty to sixty to seventy to eighty

536
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: and now you're talking ninety. It's like she was saying, like, yeah,

537
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: there was expenses on them on the community, that we're

538
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 1: draining us in some ways, but that he traps, right,

539
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: that's more like three is kind of a little bit

540
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: of a different story. Um going to the technicalities of

541
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: of of making the movie, which, by the way, one

542
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: of the most annoying things about making any dock, especially

543
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: something that spanned so much time, is when people and

544
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure you just mentioned that, people ask you why

545
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: didn't you put this in there? I don't feel like

546
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: they're interested, and I'm happy to do you feel like,

547
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: you know, it's like because also like the ground and

548
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: pound of making a dock, and then also you need

549
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: to be able to tell a story, so it might

550
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: be a good thing to explain in an interviewer podcast.

551
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: You know, I had to pass someone to explain it

552
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: coherently on camera. We don't have a narrator. It's not

553
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: like we can just break in, press pause and Mac

554
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: and I can narrate, right, You're reliant on what information.

555
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: And it's like, in a certain sense, this story was

556
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: so forgotten and there was a lot of material out there,

557
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: but in a lot of ways, like we felt like

558
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: we're almost starting from scratch on this huge religious religious

559
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: movement that came to eastern Oregon went to war with

560
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 1: the state. It was ostensibly it's like, yeah, you do

561
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: see Sheila and Ted cople and Phil Donni and all

562
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: these things, but it's like when you're first starting out,

563
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: you don't know that that footage exists or that's out there.

564
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: You just keep on researching and talking to people and

565
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: finding it. And so it's like it I we always

566
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: talk about like we feel no ownership over the story

567
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: of Roshnie Perham. If people want to pick it up

568
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: and continue, like I would be the first person to

569
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: read a book on it, to hear a podcast on it,

570
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: to see another documentary documentary series on it. It just

571
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of felt like things that weren't included. I mean,

572
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: like you said, you think six hours, but there's so

573
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: many storylines, so many characters that like, hopefully the story

574
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: continues because it is a fascinating story and there's many

575
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: more stories to be told. What at what point did

576
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: you guys know when you started, uh, like you were like, Okay,

577
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna make this movie. Number one, where did the

578
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: financing come? Was it? Was it through Netflix? And number two,

579
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: when did you decide six parts? When did you side like,

580
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: there's no way this is gonna be two hours even

581
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: at most. So it's kind of like a multi step process.

582
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: Like MC and I are big believers and like betting

583
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: on yourself. So we took like the little money that

584
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: we got from selling our first documentary and kind of

585
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: immediately put it into this and we bought cameras, we

586
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: started digitizing the footage, We started interviewing characters pre interviews,

587
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: not our final interviews. So like, the first initial financing

588
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: just came from MC and I and my wife Julie

589
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: who's our producer, and the three of us kind of

590
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: dove in and then after about it, which is a

591
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: good thing for all young filmmakers, especially young documentary filmmakers,

592
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: their filmmakers in general. I agree, you gotta be wait.

593
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: They keep waiting for someone to knock on their door,

594
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: or the opportunity doors not getting knocked, dock getting knocked on.

595
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: You really got it. I mean we had a hugely

596
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: successful dock at sun Dance and maybe a couple opportunities

597
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: here there, but really you've got to create your own opportunities.

598
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: And so we immediately knew if we want to have

599
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: a long career, like we've got a bet on us

600
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: and you have to learn how to do it. It's

601
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: like learn to edit, learn to shoot, learn to do

602
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: these things. You know. I think that in fish, try

603
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: not to rely on too many exactly if you rely

604
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: on other people to like, no, i'm gonna hire DP,

605
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hire an editor, I'm gonna hire It's like

606
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: it's like you should learn how to do those things

607
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: so you can make it on yourself and take control

608
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: of your project. Then, after about a year um through

609
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: our sales agents, we hooked up with Mark and J. D.

610
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: Plaus were like huge coming on board. We knew if

611
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: we were going to do this as a series, we

612
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: really needed some like extra help, some extra name recognition

613
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: when we check to go into distributors. But at this

614
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: point you knew this has to be a once we

615
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: kind of started getting basically, there's three huge legal stories.

616
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: There's the separation of church and state battle, there's this

617
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: huge land use battle, and there's this huge immigration fraud battle,

618
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: and so we knew, like even just diving into these

619
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: topics like it's got to be multiform or also just

620
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: gonna cheapen the story, we can't really get into what

621
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: all the conflicts of So within a month of research,

622
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: we just knew there's no way to do this, and

623
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: just the different perceptions of the same story became very

624
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: interesting to us at a certain point where it's, yeah,

625
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: you have perception of rash n issues, which also also

626
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: can fall into two camps rash Nis She's and former

627
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: son rash nish is very different perceptions. Then you have

628
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: the perceptions of Antelopeans and other neighboring ranchers in Waco

629
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: County residents, and then you have kind of the stories

630
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: of Oregon state prosecutors and federal prosecutors all like, all

631
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: those have very different perceptions of the same event. And eventually,

632
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: I think with the feature doc I don't know why

633
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: I think this, but I do, which is that one

634
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: of those sides would have prevailed more as like your

635
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: audience walking away from the feature would have been like, oh,

636
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: this side was right, that side was wrong in a series,

637
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: I think we are excited by the possibility of because

638
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: we didn't really know. I mean, it seemed like both

639
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: sides could be right at sometimes and both sides could

640
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: be wrong, and both sides did awful things to each other.

641
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: And so in a series that bigger canvas kind of

642
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: allows you to really capture a lot of different perceptions

643
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: and give everyone kind of a fair shake. To tell

644
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: the store, which was really our pitch to Netflix, Like

645
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: we told him like, this is not a traditional true

646
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: crime narrative. This is not a who done, It isn't

647
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: a series based on evidence, who's guilty, who's innocent. This

648
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: is really an exploration of this religious group and what

649
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: led them to this. The fact is is that I

650
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: think they're actually excited by that because like the Jinks

651
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: had just come out, and it wasn't then quite released

652
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: making a murder yet, but they knew that was coming out,

653
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: and I think they were excited, like, hey, this is

654
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: gonna be something different, um that we'd like to be

655
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: a part of. It was when we first started, like

656
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: when you google Rosie's prom the crimes are well known

657
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: and documented and people played guilty to them, so it

658
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: wasn't that like who done it, Who's innocent, who's guilty?

659
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: Because that it just didn't seem like there was a

660
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: lot to unravel their a reveal, but it seemed like

661
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: the work that we were excited by is okay, how

662
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: does this peace loving group who's practicing meditation in yoga

663
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: end up? How do people part of this group end

664
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: up poisoning seven the people? How do they end up

665
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: bussing in all these homeless people, how do they end

666
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 1: up doing conspiracies to assassinate political officials? And it's that

667
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: process of either how they justified that or how you

668
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: know they can't justify it that. It was that process

669
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: of almost radicalization that we were very interested in, whether

670
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: that happened internally or whether that was because of external

671
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: pressures put on the community. Those were like kind of

672
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: some of the central questions we were interested in exploring

673
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: the series. And you guys, I'm gonna just continue to kiss.

674
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: You're asked because by the way, is can can the

675
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: film be up for an OSCAR nomination? Or you didn't

676
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: do that? I don't think they do it anymore. I

677
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: think O J Made in America was like the last

678
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: time that was allowed I think you have to like

679
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: release it theatrically. And there's a lot of quals a

680
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: little bit about the intent, and the short answer is no,

681
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: Wild Wild Country is not going to be eligible for

682
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: any Oscars, but we do have like Emmys and things

683
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: like that. That's more TV focused, I mean for us,

684
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: like we intended it to be a documentary sometimes yeah, okay,

685
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: all right, Sheila, I loved her. She fucking drove me

686
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: crazy and like, it is this a lunatic? And then

687
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: to watch her interviews and watch her her her journey

688
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: UM in the old footage and and then like the

689
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: last episode where you show where she's she's working UM

690
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: in a hospice. Now, I mean, this is a person

691
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: who talks a lot of ship like myself, I respect

692
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: the ship at it. It's a woman. It's a brown

693
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: woman in the eighties who was going on these shows

694
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: talking ship basically on you know, it's it's like if

695
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: you're if you're not at that age like Phil Donna,

696
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: you it's like seeing it'd be like if someone goes

697
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: on Anderson Cooper and like it's like basically saying crosire.

698
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: She was like pre Jerry Springer, before Jerry She was

699
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: like a one man Jerry Spring. She was bringing the

700
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: like she'd be like she'd break the Internet and that

701
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: I mean, now there's plenty of people that do that.

702
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: So how did you get in touch with Sheila um

703
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: And and what was the first time you met her?

704
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: And just give me your whole sort of Sheila takeaway. Absolutely,

705
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, like you just said, you know, we had

706
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: watched hours of archive if her just eviscerating these talk

707
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: show hosts and people in the audience, and you know,

708
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: we were immediately round her. She was witty, she's charming,

709
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: she's funny. Um And so we did some research on

710
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: Google and came across this kind of hospitle man. But yeah,

711
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: we found these like a little health clinics that she

712
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: runs in Switzerland, and we didn't even know it's the

713
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: same Sheila, as that's the right person. But you know,

714
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: we sent off an email and I think within a

715
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: few days we got a response and got her on

716
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: the phone, and was the email saying we're making a movie.

717
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: It was a little bit just like hey, we're we'd

718
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: love to talk to you about This is pretty early on,

719
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: and I mean, but we had talked to Oregonian officials,

720
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: federal officials before this just just trying to put our

721
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: toe in the water of this story. And I mean,

722
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: how did they describe Yeah, I mean the this was

723
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: an exact quote. They said that she was pure evil.

724
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: Was was how they described her to us, And they

725
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: mean that sincerely, sincerely are the crimes that she committed.

726
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: And basically basically what she ended up pleading guilty too

727
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: was there was an attempted murder on the ranch of

728
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: Baguan's doctor, a man named Dave Rage. Good looking guy.

729
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: You're looking guy out of bad like he looks like

730
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: the most interesting man in the world, like she was.

731
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: You had the beer, you got the hair toll. Yeah.

732
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: There was also a conspiracy which was an assassination plot

733
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: to kill the U. S Attorney for the District of Oregon,

734
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: Charles Turner. That was a guilty plea was a part

735
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: of that. And there was also putting salmonella in salad

736
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: bars and ten restaurants in the Dallas, Oregon, which is

737
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: a town in Oregon, were seven and fifty one people

738
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: got samonella poisoning. It's considered the largest biochemical terrorist attack

739
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: in US history. It should be noted she did what's

740
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: called an Alfred plea, which is I'm pleading guilty, but

741
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: it's only because you have enough evidence to prosecute me.

742
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: But it's kind of like, I'm I'm guilty on some

743
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: of these things, but I'm not guilty on some of them.

744
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: And she's obviously she's been She's never admitted to everything.

745
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: But in our interview, what we found was she was

746
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: willing to give us justifications for why shit happened the

747
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: way it did without ever fully going on in fully

748
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: admitting everything, which which totally lends itself to like credibility questions.

749
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: It is she credible? Is she not? I think in

750
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: Wild Wild Country she comes off as someone that's reliable

751
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: at times and on reliable at other times. But we

752
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: were still interested in talking her because she was such

753
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: a decision maker as a part of the community. It

754
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: seemed like stupid to make a documentary series on Roshnie's

755
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: poem without getting Sheila's perspective in it. Yeah, but I

756
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: mean as soon as we got her on the phone,

757
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: so a little heads in at first, but I think

758
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: once we told her what we were kind of interested in,

759
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: I think it became clear that she feels like she's

760
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 1: never been given an opportunity or a platform to really say,

761
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: like her version of the events, what she was interpreting.

762
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: And it's really interesting. I mean, when you talked to her,

763
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: I think there is maybe a valid argument that they

764
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: felt incredibly persecuted out there for their religious beliefs. They

765
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: felt like they were dealing with a lot of bigotry,

766
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: a lot of government overreach and trying to dismantle this

767
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: community in this city. And it was really interesting to

768
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: watch Sheila's progression as a young seventeen year old hippie

769
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: girl who went to school in New Jersey, she went

770
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: to college out here. She was part of the Flower

771
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: Power movement. She's a fine artist, she does a lot

772
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: of paintings. Um, you know, she's really smart, really well read,

773
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: and you know, and then May areas this young American

774
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: Jewish man. It's it's a it's a whirlwind romance that

775
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: they have. And at twenty seven years old, she finds

776
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: herself widowed. He passes away from Hodgkins lymphoma and kind

777
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: of after this passing, kind of dives headfirst into running

778
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: this religious empire of this guru. And so she just

779
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: had a real fascinating story to tell. And you know,

780
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: we kind of McK and I talked to like we

781
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: weren't this wasn't gonna be like an interrogation with her,

782
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: Like we just really wanted to sit down similar how

783
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 1: we're doing, Like, hey, you like this, don't worry, don't worry,

784
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: We don't worry. I'm this whole place is why the

785
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: gates are shut. Yeah, and we so we We visited

786
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: her twice before we even interviewed her. You went to

787
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: Switzer went to Switzerland twice. She's still on INTERPOLL'SE list.

788
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: She never served. She's on Interpol, which when she can't

789
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: travel outside Switzerland because she never served time for her

790
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: federal offenses. She only starved prison time for her state crime.

791
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: And how long we that how she ended up doing

792
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: two and a half. It's a really legally complicated thing,

793
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: but basically Oregon State filed charges against her and other

794
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: rash Nish leaders and they pled guilty and struck plea

795
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: deals and they served prison time in Oregon. Sheila has

796
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: this really interesting story which we weren't quite able to

797
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: get into the series, but she basically got out a

798
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: month early earth than the federal government thought she was

799
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: going to get out on not like a good behavior,

800
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: but she painted the interior of the prison, and the

801
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: prison warden credit her thirty days of prison. So she

802
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: gets out of Oregon State Prison takes a flight to

803
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: Switzerland before the federal government is able to organize their

804
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: federal charges against her and other people. And basically I

805
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: didn't get the details of it, but federal prosecutors told

806
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: me that people were fired and that heads rolled because

807
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: mon On Sheila was got out thirty days early in prison,

808
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: was able to take a flight to Switzerland, and they

809
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: were never able to extract her back to the United States.

810
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: Is interesting. I wish I would had ten hours to

811
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: tell watching these problem I feel like I tell these stories,

812
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: and I wish I would have had four more episodes

813
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: due to jump ahead. And I was gonna ask us

814
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: at the end, but I don't want to forget anything

815
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: because you're just given me so much information. Are you

816
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: You have to you have to do it. You have

817
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: to do your version of a follow up, like at

818
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: least like a year from now. It's like just a

819
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: two hours thing, because I'm sure you guys store the staircase.

820
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: They It's incredible just how many people start coming out

821
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: with their own stories though. I mean, we've been getting

822
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: emails from so many people on all sides and what

823
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: are you like, we you're you're just like us. That's

824
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: like this was four years like okay, so let's go

825
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: out to sports and let's do a fun sports right.

826
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: That seems like something like like there's part of us

827
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: that wants to do that, but there is a part

828
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: of people really feeling like, hey, here's some information that

829
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: might be of interest to people, and so we're just

830
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: kind of in the process of like vetting that stuff. Now,

831
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: some of it's absolutely insane, and you have no idea

832
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: if some of it's more credible, and so, um, yeah,

833
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 1: there definitely is more things coming out that I think

834
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed the series, you'd be really fascinated to Now. Okay,

835
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: so jump back to Sheila. One of the things that

836
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: that frustrated me about her and I was like, is

837
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: this a fucking maniacal murderer? Um or attempted murderer. She

838
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: didn't actually murder anybody. Um. When you say she did

839
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: her time and then leaves the country and goes to Switzerland,

840
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: I mean anybody would do that, well, not anybody, not

841
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: anybody would do that because because you know Jane, she

842
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: came back obviously because she wanted to see be with

843
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: her son. You know, I mean, it's an understandable thing

844
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: you do two and a half years. Like one of

845
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: the one of the things that I respected about her

846
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: enjoying because she's unapologetic to this day. Even in the

847
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: older version of Shelan. How old is she in the

848
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: s she's only what a life? Okay, So you know

849
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: obviously when she's young, she'll and she's you know, at

850
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: the ranch. She doesn't give a funk like she's ride

851
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: or die. She's like she's basically you know what she's like.

852
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: She's like Tupac to two Rogie, Like she's like that

853
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: likes death during record and she's so's fascinating, like she

854
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: really believed in what she was doing. I mean, like

855
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: an some times you see like Kelly and Conway on

856
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: the news and here, like does she really believe what

857
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: she's saying about Trump or is she just like but

858
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: she's she really studs life, dude, She's down for it.

859
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people think she took the fall

860
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: for this. She didn't rat out anyone when when it

861
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: came time for her prison sentence. You know, she gave

862
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: nothing up on the Guru um right, and they had

863
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: they had a breach, yeah so, and they had a

864
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: falling out even and she still refused to give up

865
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: any information and or so she's just really just fascinating

866
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: character to talk to. But yeah, I mean there is

867
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: a lot of different interpretations, like is a lot of

868
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: people like is she a psychopath? Is she not? And

869
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: it's been so interesting to hear different people's interpretations of

870
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: her journey and her character. When you guys are making

871
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 1: this film, how are you processing not judging her? You're

872
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: you're watching this old footage and then then this person

873
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: that you're seeing from twenty years ago you meet in

874
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: real life. And I don't care if ten hours twenty hours.

875
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: When you're in front of somebody, it's a different version.

876
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: You're you're seeing them jokes, you're seeing them burth, you know,

877
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: you're seeing them, you know, bumping, you're seeing an actually

878
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: also thankful, like you're thankful that she that they're sitting

879
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: down and talking to you, Like there were a lot

880
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: of people that dodged a lot of our phone calls

881
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: and emails and had wanted no part of the series. Um,

882
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: and she was like kind of yeah, she was a

883
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: little badass about it. She was just like she allowed

884
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: two Americans. We had made an Oregon baseball documentary, so

885
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: we kind of had this Oregon connection. She went to

886
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: war with the state of Oregon, and she kind of

887
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: allowed us just to come in and ask us whatever

888
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: we wanted. So level you're like thankful for that, you know,

889
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: and and and and that's helpful. I mean. The other

890
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: thing is is like I totally empathize and I understand

891
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: people who say, like Sheila and the Roshnie She's arrival

892
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: in presence and Oregan had a serious and um, a

893
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: traumatic impact on my life in a very very negative

894
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: way if they live next to roshnie sperm or if

895
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: they were poisoned in the dows. I understand that, and

896
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: I do so I am the first to admit, Hey,

897
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: it's real easy for me who grew up in the

898
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: nineties in Los Angeles and had and my life wasn't

899
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: impacted at all by mon on Sheila to go meet

900
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: Sheila and and and trying to have an open conversation

901
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: with her. I mean, again, I don't think that Chap

902
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: and I actually truly felt like a real need to

903
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: condemn attempted murders and poisonings, like that's obvious, like that

904
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: ship is bad and no one should do that. But

905
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: Wild Wild Country was intended for mature adults that could

906
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: watch this series know that that ship is bad, but

907
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: then still be willing to kind of listen to someone

908
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: talk about why they are pushed to do the things

909
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: they were willing to do. That's hopefully part of the

910
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: entertainment of Wild Wild Country, right you. It's interesting you

911
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: said entertainment and adults because now thinking about like one

912
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: of the Twitter questions, and I can imagine it might

913
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: be other people, like you're interviewing a person that could

914
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: have killed this person, or you know, like this is

915
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: like if it wasn't a woman doesn't deserve a platform

916
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: or a microphone anymore a little bit. But I truly

917
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: feel like audiences are intelligent enough to know if they

918
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: feel like a character spinning them or if they you

919
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: feel like that they have an agenda, And like, I

920
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: think that there's this need for audiences like they just

921
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: want to be told what's right and what's wrong, and

922
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: they want to be make sure they're on the good side.

923
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: But I feel like if I'm watching an audience, like

924
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: when I watched Jinks, like I could tell there's something

925
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: off with Robert Durston. I can't trust everything he's saying.

926
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: I didn't need Direci to tell me that. You know,

927
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: like I got you, I give if you give it

928
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: enough time on camera, enough time on camera, you're gonna

929
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: feel where their holes and their arguments are, where they're

930
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: trying to justify certain things. And that's hopefully part of

931
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: the entertaining process of diving into this like long six

932
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: hour stories. You're not just being spoon fed like hey,

933
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: this is bad, this is wrong. You know, like you're

934
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: having to kind of figure it out for yourself, and

935
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: that's what we wanted to do. You know, how long

936
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: did you actually physically interview her? Um? How long were

937
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: the sessions? UM? And where did you interview her? Our

938
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: interview schedule, we spent five days with her. Did you

939
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: did you know it was gonna be five days? Yes?

940
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: We we we Yeah, that was what we kind of

941
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: scheduled with her, and it was four hours a day,

942
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: So we ended up with like twenty hours of total

943
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: interview time and we started from her being five years old.

944
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: In India to what she's doing now. So it was

945
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: an entire like biography of her whole life. Um, and

946
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: then we interviewed her kind of She owns this two

947
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: houses in Switzerland where she takes care of patients with dementia.

948
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: So that's her. She doesn't work there, that's her, that's

949
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: her business staff, but yeah, that's like her, which was

950
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: pretty incredible. I mean, we didn't really get into it.

951
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: But after prison, she moves to Switzerland, she learns to

952
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: speak German from scratch at her in her later years,

953
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: she started off as a dog walker and she became

954
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: a cleaner. She cleaned houses as a maid for a while,

955
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: and then through cleaning houses, she was taking care of

956
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: this older couple and that was kind of like our

957
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: first client and started taking care of older people and

958
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: through them kind of built this network of people with

959
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: mental illnesses that she can take care of. One of

960
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: the questions that because we wanted to show that, not

961
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: just to have this like, oh she is a great

962
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: person type of thing at the end, But one of

963
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: the questions that I asked myself is does everybody deserve

964
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: a second chance? And that's and and and there's right

965
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: and wrong answers to that. It's like a regardless of

966
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: your opinion on second chances, like everyone deserves a redemption

967
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: story or not, you know who's worthy of a redemption story.

968
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a really fascinating topic, especially in this

969
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: day exactly because my like is Louis c k Like,

970
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: when is it as long as he and the doghouse

971
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 1: for type of thing? Right, And it was like and

972
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: and I think with the case I'm on on Sheila,

973
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: if you feel like she doesn't, then that that could

974
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: be a legitimate takeaway. Um, if you think, like, you

975
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: know what, maybe we are a society that's like, yeah,

976
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: you do your prison time, you're no longer really you know,

977
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: you pay your debt to society and if you want

978
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: to rebuild your life, you can go do that. And

979
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: I will say this, I mean, we spent a lot

980
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: of time there without cameras rolling with Sheila was Sheila

981
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: without even us knowing that around Sheila works hard and

982
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: those patients like love her. And so there's a lot

983
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: of people that were watching this at the Angle and

984
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is a horror show. This is terrifying.

985
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: But our genuine takeaway is that she is very deeply

986
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: about her clients and patients and does a very difficult

987
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: job of taking care of these people. Was kind of

988
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: our legitimate, genuine takeaway, even when cameras weren't rolling your

989
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: This is a technical question. When your did your five days,

990
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: four hours a day interviews with Sheila, how many cameras

991
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: were you using? And and did you do the interviews

992
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: chronological order? You said you started off when she was seven,

993
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: and like when you guys work together, like I'm I'm

994
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: interviewing to two you and I know from when doing

995
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: a doc, you know who's who's asking the questions? Which

996
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: one of you guys? Yeah, so I we had a DP.

997
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: We had two cameras running. So our DP Adam Stone,

998
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: who shoots all of Jeff Nichols films like Midnight Special

999
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: and Take Shelter, and its credible DP um he was overqualified, Okay,

1000
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: was on one camera. I was operating the other camera,

1001
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: and then Matt kind of sits in the interview chair

1002
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: and asked the questions. It's kind of usually how you

1003
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: do it. And if I hear something that I think

1004
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: needs repeating, I also do a lot of editing, so

1005
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: sometimes I have an ear for like, oh, they're gonna

1006
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: need to repeat that, or that's not going to cut together,

1007
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: So let's ask that and I'll chime in everyone. So

1008
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of how we started. Actually, because I was

1009
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: a history major, I went to use c l A.

1010
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: I was like obsessed with nonfiction stories. But I would

1011
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: kind of see my like these professors that I loved

1012
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: write these five hundred page books that no one was reading.

1013
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: So I was immediately interested in documentary film or whole

1014
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: families from the film industry. I never really thought we'd

1015
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: get into it, but I saw a documentary as kind

1016
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: of this kind of type of nonfiction filmmaking that I

1017
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 1: was really interested in. Chap was always kind of tried

1018
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: and true filmmaker, like went to film school, learned to edit,

1019
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: learned how to shoot, and so we can kind of

1020
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: the brains that he exactly he's like he technically very savvy,

1021
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 1: and like I really lie leaned on that a lot,

1022
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: and so we kind of had this division of labor

1023
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: where it's like I would do a little bit more

1024
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: of the research and a little bit more of the putting,

1025
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: like getting like learning the story and doing the interviews,

1026
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: and then like Chaps got I mean It's so helpful

1027
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: to have him there because like, as I'm doing the interviews,

1028
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: he's the first person I looked to at the end

1029
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: and be like do we get everything? Do you have

1030
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: everything that we need? And then like whatever he tells

1031
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: me to like get again. That always ends up making

1032
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: it into the show and it's like critical stuff that's like, oh, yeah,

1033
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: we need that when you guys are doing it. Did

1034
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: you break down the interviews with specifically Sheela, because that

1035
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: probably was the most extensive in chronological order. Yeah, we

1036
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of did an interesting way. The first thing that

1037
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: we did before we even start our interviews was we

1038
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: basically wrote six scripts for each episode. Can explain that explain.

1039
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: So basically it's an archival story. We know the beginning

1040
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: of the story, we know how it ends, and so

1041
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: we knew that we were doing these six one hour episodes,

1042
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: so we really like wrote a treatment for each episode.

1043
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: Here's the opening scene, here's your page eight moment, here's

1044
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: the end of the first act. Here's here's your cliffhanger

1045
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: at end up episode one, here's the conclusion. So we

1046
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: really like structure based on the archival footage, based on

1047
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: the and just the researchers. We read like over twenty

1048
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: books on this. We read a lot of the Googer's

1049
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: books and pre interviews with characters, interviews with a lot

1050
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: of characters, pre interviews off camera. Yeah, just research, just

1051
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: like hey, I want to We're gonna go grab for

1052
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: one of these, Yeah, and just talk to people. That's

1053
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: that's interesting because and it really is like people. I

1054
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: love documentaries that people are making where it's current, modern

1055
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: day and it's unfolding, and like I would say, one

1056
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: of the great benefits of being able to being an

1057
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: archival documentary filmmaker is you get to kind of structure it.

1058
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: With battered Bastards, we were able to structure in the

1059
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: three acts, this was much different. We are able to

1060
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: do it in six one hour episodes. It's a little

1061
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: I think some people are of the belief like I

1062
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: just want to talk to you for the first time

1063
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: on camera so we can get something fresh and new,

1064
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 1: And that's definitely like how some people attack these interviews.

1065
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: But we feel like if we can get a little

1066
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: more information beforehand, it helps us inform our narrative, like

1067
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 1: how the narrative structure of the show will play out.

1068
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: And because you know that it's so much and there's

1069
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: so much, So when we do our interviews, we know like, hey,

1070
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 1: these are big or this is a huge archival video section,

1071
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: like we need Chiellow to talk about the World Festival

1072
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: because that's a huge moment in episode three, and so

1073
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: we kind of do a mix of just chronological and

1074
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: just making sure we're hitting our bullet points and you

1075
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: totally stay. I mean there's stuff like John Silvertooth and overalls,

1076
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: like when he started off a story with well, I've

1077
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: never told this in public, but I'm gonna go ahead

1078
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: and say. It's like, you know, like so it's like

1079
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: you have to be open, so you can't be controlling.

1080
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: It's like your essentially pretty free, willing to We're not

1081
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: like totally strict to our questions. So something's going off

1082
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: on an interesting tangent. Well you know where we might

1083
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: dive into that as well. Yeah, you play with that.

1084
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: And it's like I think that we called our scripts

1085
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: like the Bible that we had made were like well

1086
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: like and and and and the Bible that we had

1087
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: was a little bit plot for plot, and it ended

1088
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: up being pretty accurate to what's in the series. I

1089
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: think the area that we couldn't really plan for was

1090
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: just the personal character arcs and development of our talking

1091
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: heads because they really were our cast, and so that

1092
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: was something that we definitely stayed open too. And then

1093
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: I mean, the story was just so complex that it

1094
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: was one of those things where we almost ended up

1095
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: with as many questions at the end as we started with,

1096
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: which was just kind of the nature of this wild

1097
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: ass story where you know, it's a lot of different

1098
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: perceptions of the same event that happened. Sort of thing

1099
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: when when you guys were filming, Uh, I mean, I'm

1100
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: sure you had a bunch of them, but do you remember, like,

1101
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, when I've had a pleasure of making docs,

1102
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: there's been a handful, like to this day, I could

1103
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: recall them oh shit moments where the way they're telling

1104
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: the story and you're just like, this is gonna be

1105
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: in the movie and you're just like, you know, you

1106
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: can feel it or you can feel it in the room.

1107
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's really amazing, like you can just you feel

1108
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: that sense of energy. And I think like one of

1109
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: the one of the first ones that happened, which was

1110
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: just absolutely insane, was when we were interviewing the assistant

1111
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: Attorney General of Oregon, Bill Gary, and he was explained

1112
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: to us how their real attempt to poison the water

1113
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: supply what with the beaver, Yeah, and the beaver and

1114
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: the blender. Yes, So basically they they what they ultimately

1115
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: ended up doing was poisoning salad bars. But their first attempt,

1116
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 1: which what they really wanted to do, was they wanted

1117
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: to poison the entire water supply of this city with

1118
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: some sort of bacteria or samon ella um, so that

1119
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: enough people would get sick on election day that they

1120
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to vote. It was a way to

1121
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: control the election. And so they trapped beavers, which are

1122
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: like have a really bad bacteria in them apparently, and

1123
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: they trapped beavers who trapped beavers. Okay, well this is

1124
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: like yeah, so none of this is known as fact.

1125
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 1: But according to the attorney assistant Attorney General, he told

1126
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: us that rash Nieh's or San Yawson's, people of this

1127
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: religious movement, trapped beavers on their commune and then they

1128
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: took the beavers, and then they were gonna put the beavers,

1129
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: the live beavers, into the water supply and through that

1130
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: the bacteria and salmonella will infiltrate the water supply. The

1131
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: problem that they that they ran into when they got

1132
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: to the water tank in the middle of the town

1133
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: was that the opening, the gap between the lid was

1134
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: covered with the wire was covered with wire and mesh,

1135
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: so they couldn't get the live beavers in there. So

1136
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: he's just telling us this very very nonchalantly, very matter

1137
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: and this was not in the free interviews, and he said,

1138
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, they couldn't get the beaver, they couldn't put

1139
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: the beavers in, and so what they did is they

1140
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: went back and they put the beavers in blend, and

1141
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: then they blended the beavers to a pulp and then

1142
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: took the blended beaver pulp back to the water supply

1143
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: and poured the blended beavers into the water supply. And

1144
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: that was truly one of the most insane things I've

1145
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: ever heard in my life. And I was on the

1146
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: camera and I remember just doing like a slow turn

1147
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: to Mac and not even saying anything, and we both

1148
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: just made contact contact without breaking face and likes something

1149
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: the only brothers can do. But we were just looking

1150
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: at each other, like, what the fuck did that? Did?

1151
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: He just say? You know, we were just so flabbergass.

1152
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: And so what he said, which was really interesting because

1153
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,479
Speaker 1: as soon as he I mean, he kind of knew

1154
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: what he was doing, he knew what he did, and

1155
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: he landed it perfectly. And he was like, again, he's like,

1156
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea if that's true or not. But

1157
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: he said it was told to me by someone who

1158
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: was there, and and and that was as deep as

1159
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: he was willing to go, and that was we were.

1160
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: It was in like an affidavit, but he said it

1161
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: wasn't just what was putting the affidavit. It was he

1162
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: was talking about his own personal interviews with people who

1163
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: had pled guilty to stuff, and he said that this

1164
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: was a story was told him. He wouldn't name who,

1165
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: but he said he was told to him by someone

1166
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: who claimed they were there. So again, it's like, I

1167
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: wish we could have gotten like hardcore analysis in fact

1168
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: from there, but that was that was as deep as

1169
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: we could get. Did you either while you were making it?

1170
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: After since the movies come out as Sheila, Sonny or

1171
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: Jane about the fucking beaver, they don't know they would

1172
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: not actually because Bill Gary was interviewed and which guy's Bill,

1173
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: Bill Gary's assistant US attorney Gennal who told us the

1174
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 1: story was actually after we had interviewed all the sun yes,

1175
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: was at the end, so there was not a like,

1176
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, you would would they think you'd

1177
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: be curious to ask? I would definitely, she's not saying

1178
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: she's right, but wouldn't you want to like he like

1179
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: follow up? This is something that I think could be legitimate.

1180
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: Is that I think that they felt that the people

1181
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 1: who were cooperating with government officials were kind of throwing

1182
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: the kitchen sink at the That's just just see that's

1183
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: the way come back with the attempt was to try

1184
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: and get you know, their prison time is down as

1185
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: little as possible. So it was kind of like, I

1186
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: mean literally the reason we put this section in it's

1187
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: called Rumor Hotline, and the Oregon state government officials funded

1188
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,959
Speaker 1: a rumor hotline because they were having such a hard

1189
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: time figuring out what was truth and what was fact,

1190
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: and we had that same problem too. I mean, this

1191
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: was a story of essentially people who lived on this commune.

1192
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: It was impossible for us or anyone to know exactly

1193
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: what happened on the ranch at all times. When you

1194
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: get vastly different content effects, and so I'm sure I

1195
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: feel like I can go out of limb and say

1196
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: that this would be a story that would be one

1197
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: denied by a lot of people. But again, it's like

1198
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: this guy's telling you and he said, well, this was

1199
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: told by if someone was there. I don't know someone

1200
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: that would tell that story if they were being a

1201
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker. You know, like, it's not proven, it's not known.

1202
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: They obviously of course would deny it on the other side,

1203
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: but you have an a us saying he heard it,

1204
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: and so you got to put that in like you

1205
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: put too far out there, and it kind of is.

1206
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: It was to me, it was symbolic of how much

1207
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: stuff can be embellished or how much stuff can be

1208
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: not It was a little bit of the truth and

1209
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: fiction that was inherent in Wild the Wild Country. Um,

1210
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: let me see, okay, the Homeless People. I have to say,

1211
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: as far as documentaries or just regular narrative films, was

1212
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: one of the wildest twists I've I'll never forget seeing

1213
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: because that was I think my wife might have been

1214
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: up to that part when she first started watching it,

1215
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: and I was like screwing around doing something. I came

1216
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: in and then she goes, yo, you gotta see she's

1217
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, and then I'm watching the tapes of

1218
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: the homeless people and she's like, now they're drinking beer

1219
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: and they're they're fucking poison in the beer or they're

1220
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: they're medicating the beer. And I was like, what the funk?

1221
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: And that's when I started watching the recruiting of the

1222
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: homeless people is so far out, such a see. This

1223
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: is when I'm like, these motherfucker's are not This isn't

1224
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: that yoga meditation? Like this is an agenda here and

1225
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to you know, she says it, you know,

1226
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: play with the cracks, play with the you know, the loopholes,

1227
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: Sheila says, and I think in archival footage, right, okay,

1228
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: she said, if you're not finding the little loophole's the

1229
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: gaps in the law, then it's your loss, right. And

1230
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: see that's where I'm like, this, that's not a very

1231
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: spiritual practice. But you know all Sheila never claimed to

1232
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: be spiritual, which was really interesting too, which is what

1233
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: we talked about in episode one, which we didn't really

1234
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: know and we were interviewing her and she's like, dude,

1235
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: I didn't give a crap about the meditation. Meditation was

1236
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: a product. Meditation is what I sold to Westerners to

1237
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: come to build the Guan's empire. So she was all

1238
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: about the business. She liked running the infrastructure. Sheila was

1239
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: not there for spirituality or for enlightenment. I mean she

1240
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: she claims that she fell in love with this man,

1241
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: this guru, and she wanted to be the right hand woman,

1242
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: the right hand man and make it all happen. And

1243
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: so that's what I kind of that's when I kind

1244
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: of found her really interesting. Is like, well, there's so

1245
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: many layers to the story. You know, she, Lola has

1246
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: a completely different reason for being a part of this

1247
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: movement as from everyone else. Okay, that's one of the

1248
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: best things you just said to me. I didn't know

1249
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: that that specific thing. I mean, it was obvious by

1250
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: her actions that she was about her business, but to

1251
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: say I didn't realize, and maybe I missed it in

1252
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: the actual film that she was like, I'm essentially a business.

1253
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: Was the only son Yawson who the Guru said didn't

1254
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: need to meditate because Sheila hated meditation, so she got personal.

1255
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: She would have fall asleep during the meditations and it

1256
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: would piss a lot of her fellow Rashnie she's off.

1257
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: Apparently apparently Bogwan gave her a pass on falling asleep

1258
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: and during some of the meditations, I mean, yeah, Sheila

1259
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: wasn't very interested in and kind of I guess what

1260
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: they would say walking the path of enlightenment. Now you

1261
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: said she fell in love with him in the breach

1262
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: in one of his his interviews where he was he

1263
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: came out of his silence. But Guan said, and and

1264
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: and this is again, this is I was like, if

1265
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm a follower, like, this is not your rutuality. When

1266
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: he says, she why would I fuck sleep sleep with

1267
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: Why would I sleep with a bitch? And why would

1268
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: I say if I'm a spiritual person, if I'm in

1269
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: yoga class and my fucking you know, my my power

1270
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: yoga class in the valley on a Sunday and they

1271
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: start talking like this, I walk out, even me and

1272
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: I'm a savage. I'm like, this is in the fun

1273
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do my dad, well, dog, I'm trying

1274
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: to get me. I think, what's so fast? And they're

1275
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: like clapping. I'm like this is well. When we talked

1276
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: to Sanyasen's ex followers and even current Sanya Sen's You

1277
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: have to remember that he had taken a vow of silence.

1278
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: This guru had been silent for four and a half years.

1279
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: He was supposedly in his silence, they felt was coming

1280
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: up with the master plan for them, for their religious movement,

1281
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: for what would lead them to enlightenment. That's why they

1282
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: were all out there in the desert. And so I

1283
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: think for this moment, when these followers here for the

1284
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: first time, our master, our guru, is gonna break his silence.

1285
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: He's gonna come out, and he's gonna they felt like

1286
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: he's gonna come out and tell us what the next

1287
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: movement is in this grand experiment. They were looking to

1288
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: him for guidance, and he basically comes out and just

1289
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: throws Sheila completely under the bus. And absolutely, and I

1290
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: think you see very much that this is like a

1291
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: man who feels like he's been burned. He like, you know,

1292
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: he's just human being, just like the rest of us.

1293
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: And I think that was for a lot of sun

1294
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: Yawson's a turning point for those that started questioning what's

1295
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: really going on here? What am I a part of

1296
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: is this worth it? Like we're supposed to be. They

1297
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: when you talk to sun Yawson's their goal was to

1298
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: transform the consciousness of the planet. And they say that

1299
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: very seriously, that that that was their ambition. That they

1300
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: felt like, if we build enough of these communes around

1301
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: the world, we will transform the consciousness. And so back

1302
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: to the Bogwan breaking his silence and and calling Sheila

1303
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: bitch and claiming that she was jealous because he never

1304
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: slept with her. And I think was a very confusing

1305
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: time for everyone in that movement. You know, we could

1306
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: talk about this story, you know, in all this sort

1307
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: of like you know, like it's like nuts landing or

1308
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: like a soap opera. But I mean, bare bone question.

1309
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: Did they have a sexual relationship? Did they have a

1310
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: personal relationship? It was then both of them said that

1311
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: they never slept with each other. So yeah, and I

1312
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: kind of believe it too. I take them both attend

1313
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: get into it. But Bagwan had a long time caretaker

1314
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: slash girlfriend named the Veck that lived in his house

1315
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: with him, that was with them even in the India days,

1316
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: and so they were together for a couple of decades.

1317
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: And so it was told to us that was like

1318
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: his long time, she said, And she said, and then

1319
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,919
Speaker 1: I have to believe it right exactly. Yeah, I never

1320
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: and I really never heard any differently from anyone, which

1321
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, they both are kind of in

1322
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: on this. They just had this intense thing. It had

1323
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: to be some sort of intense, Yeah, relationship. Gurus in

1324
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: India have kind of personal secretaries that are like these

1325
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: fall on the sword type of commitment devotions. I mean,

1326
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a tradition of this in India.

1327
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: And we weren't quite able to get into the documentary.

1328
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: But Sheila's father, who was a part of like this

1329
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: kind of independence movement, he was part of Gandhi's independence movement,

1330
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: was was all I think a little bit older than Baguan,

1331
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: but really respected Baguan kind of as this up and

1332
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: coming philosopher guru who was provocative and pissing a lot

1333
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: of people off. I mean, Sheila's father was really prominent

1334
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: member of Gandhi's inner circle and also spent time in

1335
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: prison for his involved in the film. Things we weren't

1336
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: able to include, but Sheila grew up seeing her father

1337
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: as a freedom fighter who fought alongside Gandhi Um for

1338
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: his for the independence movement, served time in prison, and

1339
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: that was a lot of huge pivotal moment in her life,

1340
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: and I think she felt that she was doing the

1341
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: same thing with Baguan. I hate to make the Tupac

1342
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: comparison again, but mother spent time in prison, you know,

1343
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: after doing stuff with the Black Panthers, So I I

1344
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: think that you know, there's no other rapper that's like

1345
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: two Pa, but Sheila is like the Tupac. All right,

1346
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: Going back to the homeless people. Did you try to

1347
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: track down any of them for interviews or was that impossible?

1348
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: We found two homeless people. It was really impossible one

1349
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: because they all took Indian names sun Yasen names once

1350
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: they came on the ranch, so it's very hard to

1351
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: track down what even their American English names were. Um

1352
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: and it wasn't just something that people were advertising about

1353
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: themselves in their past, not only that they were like home.

1354
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: It was just a little bit. Most of them we

1355
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: were able to, like just through tons of Google search.

1356
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: I was able to track down one homeless person we

1357
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: and we're not finding too. Neither of them wanted to

1358
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: go on camera and talk, but I did find their

1359
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: experiences really fascinating and I'm happy to share that one

1360
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: was um, you know, down and out, homeless, alcoholic, you know,

1361
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: just totally out on his luck. Took this bus from

1362
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: northern California up to join this community UM and talked

1363
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: about it and incredibly glowing terms and said it turned

1364
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: his life around. He got off he got off alcohol,

1365
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: he wasn't drinking anymore. He actually went after this whole experience,

1366
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: went back to grad school, got his master's in theology

1367
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 1: and became um a pastor. And so so you met

1368
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: the guy. We talked on the phone, OK, but he

1369
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: sounded like a north like He sounded um like the

1370
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: same person, same person, went back on his master's green

1371
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: he's works in a religious community. Now he's a pastor

1372
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: and very much credits oh Shows teaching the Guan's teaching

1373
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: for helping get him back on his feet. But because

1374
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: of what he's doing now, just wasn't really interested on

1375
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: talking to camera. The other one was actually really bizarre

1376
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: moment that MC and I were filming an antelope and

1377
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: we were filming the flagpole that they have in the

1378
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: middle of the town, right next to the post office,

1379
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: and this car drives up and this man gets out

1380
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: of the post office and goes inside and his son

1381
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: was sitting in the driver's seat, and the sun said, hey,

1382
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: what are you all doing out here? You know, like,

1383
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: what do you And we told him we're filming the

1384
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: story on Rashnese Peram and he said, no way, my dad.

1385
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: My dad was a member of that group. And I

1386
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: was just thinking, like he was a follower of Sunny Austin,

1387
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 1: but this is in the middle of Antelope. He said.

1388
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: He said, my dad was a part of that, and

1389
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: I thought that he meant like, oh, maybe his dad

1390
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: was on the Antelop City council, maybe he was on

1391
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: the school board. Like I just thought like, oh, Dad,

1392
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: start talking. I immediately start talking to this kid, and

1393
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: he's like, no, my dad was homeless man in Northern California.

1394
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: Northern California also and and took a bus up there

1395
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: and joined it. And I was like, wait, you guys

1396
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: are living an Antelope now and he's like, yeah, my

1397
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: dad never talks about it because we moved here like

1398
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: ten years ago. My dad remembered the area, moved back here.

1399
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: And he was also someone that despite knowing now in

1400
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: modern day that they were tranquilized with howdall and poisoned

1401
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 1: also spoke about it as like an incredible time or like, yeah,

1402
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: we did work on the ranch, but we got free food,

1403
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: we got free clothes, they provided us health services, and

1404
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: he felt like it was a positive takeaway to um

1405
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 1: even despite knowing that they were used basically for for voting. Yeah,

1406
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these eyes because those were

1407
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: the two modern day ones that we spoke to. But

1408
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: we did have like hours of interviews with people in

1409
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: the time, and even the news stations would follow up

1410
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: with homeless people who had left the ranch afterwards, so

1411
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: we had kind of these like hours of archive interviews.

1412
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: And it seemed to be that even the ones that

1413
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: weren't thrilled with their experience at Roshni Peram were equally

1414
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: as resentful towards America in general as a country that

1415
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: they felt had completely abandoned them in terms of like

1416
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: I was a Vietnam War veteran. I fought for this country,

1417
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: and I got the only helping hand that I ever

1418
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: got in my life was these people dressed in red

1419
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 1: who allowed me to come and be a part of

1420
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: their community for a couple of weeks and It was

1421
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: just a fascinating perspective to listen, there's homeless people that

1422
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: feel differently, but those are the only two that we

1423
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: were talking to and we were able to really wanted

1424
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: to get them on camera, but they were there was

1425
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 1: just no way they were going to get on camera

1426
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: and talk about it. Again with going to the to

1427
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: the way the homeless people were, in my opinion, they

1428
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: were inevitably, uh, they were used, and then when they

1429
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: were when it was found that they couldn't use them,

1430
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: they kicked them. You know because the story of Sheila

1431
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: talking about the one guy attacking and that's of a

1432
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: home one of the homeless people. So what happened, I mean,

1433
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: this was basically right one. Reagan defunded all the mental

1434
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 1: institutions in America, so there was this influx of people

1435
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: mental illness, leaving these mental institutions um living on the

1436
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: streets with severe mental illnesses. And so you know, when

1437
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: the rash Nishis were rounding up this home, these homeless people,

1438
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: there was no sort of checking these people out for

1439
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 1: who might be good for the community. They were taking

1440
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: anyone and everyone that was over the age of eighteen

1441
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: an American citizen and could vote, and so you know,

1442
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:46,440
Speaker 1: within weeks thefts one up on the ranch, crimes one up, assaults,

1443
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: sexual assaults on the ranch. I mean it was pretty

1444
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: soon that, within weeks of busting in five thousand homeless people,

1445
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: the entire, uh, the entire community kind of began falling.

1446
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: Apart from because we talked to a lot of Sanyasen's

1447
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: that we they're called Roshanishis, but they called themselves Sanyasen

1448
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: sorry too that we kind of use them inter interexchangeably.

1449
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: But um, like what they were telling us was they

1450
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: would see buses of homeless people coming to the community

1451
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: and it was so far away from their kind of

1452
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: peaceful meditation, yoga ambitions and ideals that you're I believe

1453
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 1: that your average every day rash Nish she saw this

1454
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: and was like, this is the beginning of the end.

1455
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: Like at least that's what they told us. They were like,

1456
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: we look back at this and we could not believe

1457
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 1: that this was what our leaders in our community. This

1458
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: was the plan that they had. So I think even

1459
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: from the get go, there were a lot of just

1460
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: every day, run of the mill ras nish. She's on

1461
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: the commune that we're not thrilled about their utopia being

1462
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: turned into kind of a homeless shelter for backup a letter.

1463
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, just to be fair and honest,

1464
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the homeless people did stay until the

1465
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: very end. So the ones that were kicked out were

1466
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: ones that you know, we're creating some sort of motion

1467
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: inside the community. I mean, even at the end, you

1468
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: see two or three homeless people that we show an

1469
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: episode six talking about how they don't want to leave,

1470
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: and so, just to be fair, it wasn't like they

1471
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: were I mean, not that there's a way to be fair.

1472
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean what they did was awful bringing them in

1473
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: and discarding them. But there were numbers of almost that

1474
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,839
Speaker 1: did stay until the very end. Really complex, like almost

1475
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:22,600
Speaker 1: every part of the story, because it was just the

1476
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: numbers were large. She's talking it was a permanent population

1477
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: around that lived on the ranch, and then worldwide, you're

1478
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: talking thirty forty thousand sani Astin's and then even homeless people,

1479
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: you're talking five thousand, So thousand of them came five

1480
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 1: thousand of them. The amount of people that were already

1481
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 1: by two to one. Yeah, I mean, I mean the

1482
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: plan was there was about twelve thousand Wasasco County voters

1483
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: UM eligible voters uh for this November County elections, and UM,

1484
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: they knew that they couldn't quite get those numbers. They

1485
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: couldn't quite get to twelve thousand UM. An interesting little

1486
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,759
Speaker 1: fact toy is that the voter participation rate in Wasco

1487
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: County for that election was it was the highest of

1488
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: any county in the nation. It's interesting because you know

1489
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: obviously what happened in Alabama. You know, when when people

1490
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: are clear and have a clear cut agenda and are

1491
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: clear on who's running and why they're running, Uh, they vote,

1492
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: they turn out. You know, you know whether that or

1493
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, like even in Alabama, it's like you're like,

1494
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 1: it's between these two people, these are their agendas, and

1495
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: motherfucker was coming out. The average voting right and for

1496
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 1: the nation that year was like below fifty percent. It

1497
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: was like forty eight or so. For a county to

1498
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: be was just kind of one of the most fascinating

1499
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: things that I found in that whole thing was this

1500
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: kind of statewide rejection of all new voter registrations, which

1501
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: but couldn't they you know, it's like, what did you

1502
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: think of that? Because in my opinion, like, well, that's

1503
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: their right. So I'm like, this is a fucking this

1504
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: is a con here, this is the right. Like Sheila,

1505
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: I think at a certain point was like, funk this, dude,

1506
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: I am gonna do like like the elite. That was like,

1507
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: just to be honest to me, that's almost like one

1508
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,799
Speaker 1: of the most terrifying things because you expect the Rashnie

1509
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: she used to bend the law. You expect Eastern Oregans

1510
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: to bend the law to their advantage. But if the

1511
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: law is twenty one days in the state of Oregon

1512
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: and you can vote, and you have people that fought

1513
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: in the Vietnam more fought for this country living in

1514
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,839
Speaker 1: this commune, and they're being told that they can't vote,

1515
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: I mean that's a To me, that was like if

1516
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 1: you don't like the law, change the voter residency requirement laws,

1517
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: you can't just switch it whenever you feel. That was

1518
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 1: because obviously what some of the rosni She's did that

1519
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: we're in kind of Sheila and Sheila's cohort, the illegal

1520
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,799
Speaker 1: ship they did, is like, Okay, that's obvious, that's illegal.

1521
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: It's the ship that they did that was technically legal.

1522
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: That is sometimes the more terrifying stuff where it's like

1523
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,600
Speaker 1: they incorporated as a town, which meant they're allowed to

1524
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: have a police department that they can send people to

1525
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,520
Speaker 1: the Oregon State Police Academy get credited as police officers,

1526
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: and then they're legally allowed to kind of buy these

1527
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: almost semi automatic like a K forty seven assault assault

1528
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: rifles and armed their legal police force in their community.

1529
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 1: And then you still allowed to do that to this day.

1530
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: If you're an incorporated town, you are you're legally allowed

1531
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: to have a police force, fire department. You can tax

1532
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: your base, You're allowed access into Oregon statewide taxing pool

1533
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: money that the whole state taxes all their citizens for.

1534
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: As a city, you're allowed to tap into that pool

1535
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: and use some of that money to fund some of

1536
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: your public services. I don't know what other states are.

1537
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: I've only researched this in Oregon, but it's and and

1538
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: and that was kind of at the heart of the

1539
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: story was the political power that you get if you

1540
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: can get a hundred and fifty people to say they

1541
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: want a city. That was a game changer in this

1542
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 1: just in Oregon. That Oregon was a hundred fifty people. Yeah,

1543
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: I oh, there. It's basically a rule that are some

1544
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 1: states are called home rule states, which if you're a

1545
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: home rule state, and I think like more than half

1546
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: of the United States states are considered home rule states.

1547
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: It's like a small amount of people. It's like hundred

1548
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 1: fifty people, two people, three hundred people can sign a

1549
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: petition and then you're allowed to petition your county government,

1550
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 1: and then your county government usually has a vote in

1551
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: commission like three people that will rule on whether to

1552
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: grant you an election, and then if you're allowed to

1553
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: have that election, then you're allowed to decide whether you

1554
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: want a town or not. That's usually the process. But

1555
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: Darashnish is still such an unusual case because once they

1556
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: got granted the election to have on their ranch, it

1557
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: was like a hundred fifty four voters to nothing voted

1558
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: that they want to have a city, and there was

1559
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: nothing they could do. That's what's terrifying about the story

1560
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 1: is all the legal ship that they did I got

1561
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: that was still I mean, they became an eight hundred

1562
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 1: pound guerrilla in the state of Oregon. It shows how

1563
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 1: easy like the fabric of our institutions can be challenged.

1564
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:30,599
Speaker 1: I mean, we like to think we live in American

1565
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: voting rights and police forces and all these things are

1566
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: like these sacred institutions. But if you want to like

1567
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 1: funk with the system and you want to find the loopholes,

1568
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to do. And I think that

1569
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 1: this series is a little bit of a warning sign

1570
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 1: of like what can really happen in our country if

1571
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 1: you get a group of devoted people that want to

1572
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: kind of bend the system towards their way. I I agree. Um,

1573
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: all right, because I've kept you guys, I want to

1574
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,879
Speaker 1: just rattle off a couple of questions. The red clothing.

1575
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've asked. You've been asked this much that

1576
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: about the red pres too many people. We can get

1577
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: into it there. Yeah, there was a couple of red

1578
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the colors of like the rising

1579
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: sun like in the morning. It's supposed to be a

1580
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: new start, a new day and new beginning, like when

1581
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: a new sunrise in the morning. Um, there's another kind

1582
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 1: of explanation to that I think is really interesting. Which

1583
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: this could be getting too deep in the weeds, but

1584
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 1: I'll try and get through it quickly. Which is there

1585
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: rash Nishi has called themselves neo Sanya Sen's and there's

1586
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: a Sanyasi or like it's called Sanyasi tradition of rejection.

1587
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,799
Speaker 1: It's asceticism, and it's dudes wearing orange robes that are

1588
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: incredibly impoverished and that's their enlightened. In India, there's a

1589
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: long tradition in India. And what was interesting was Boguan

1590
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 1: as a provocative, very controversial guru kind of appropriated the

1591
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: orange clothing and it was in seemly controversial in India.

1592
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 1: It would be like someone gave me this analogy. It

1593
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: would be like if you saw a couple of young

1594
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: twenty year olds wearing like a priest caller and priest

1595
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: clothing running around your city kind of making out, doing

1596
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 1: sexual ship to one another, and you'd be like, that

1597
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 1: is that's that's that's controversial, that's provocative. You're not supposed

1598
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: to put on a priest caller and then act very

1599
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,719
Speaker 1: unpriestly like. And that's kind of what they did in India,

1600
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: which was as western as we don't really we don't

1601
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: see that. We just like that's how he was. That's

1602
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: how it was taken in India. But then the other

1603
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: thing was these kind of sunrise colors, new birth, new

1604
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: age thing. And also, I mean a lot of anti

1605
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: cult people will tell you, like that's a way to

1606
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: like get rid of someone's individuality and their individual identity,

1607
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: and like you become part of the group instead of

1608
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: an individual. So that's you know what a lot of

1609
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: anti cult people have said. Um. And then Baguan also said,

1610
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,559
Speaker 1: like it's meant to be provocative spiritually for you, where

1611
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: you have to face your friends, you have to face

1612
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 1: your teachers, you have to face your family and say, look,

1613
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: this is who I am now, like and you have

1614
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 1: to come. You really have to. Like that was in

1615
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: his right called the device, and devices are kind of

1616
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,640
Speaker 1: a part of this. Their devices are supposed to be

1617
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 1: external struggles that you have internal spiritual growth through. And

1618
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 1: so there was this big mystic guy named like George Gergief,

1619
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: and like a Gergifian device would be this, Like Gergief

1620
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: would make you a dig a five foothole and it

1621
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: takes you all day and you'd get your hands bloodied

1622
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: and blistered and then he'd say, all right, fill it

1623
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: back up and then you'd be like fuck, like that

1624
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: is awful and like and it was supposed to be

1625
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: this external struggle. So I'm not saying that I believe this,

1626
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: but what when when I would talk to a lot

1627
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 1: of sun Yasen's they would say, the whole experiment of

1628
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: Rashnish perm was a big device. We were supposed to

1629
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: build this hunter and twenty five million dollar utopian city

1630
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to collapse in five years, and

1631
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 1: we were supposed to have internal spiritual growth through that struggle,

1632
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 1: and it was a device for which IS fascinated because

1633
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Like there, I remember there was a time

1634
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 1: where I was growing up where I was like, I

1635
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: want to be a filmmaker, but I'm uncomfortable calling myself

1636
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 1: a filmmaker, Like when people ask you, like what do

1637
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 1: you are and You're like, I haven't done anything, and

1638
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 1: like as an actor, I'm sure you, Like when did

1639
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 1: you call yourself an actor? Like at what point? And

1640
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: did you ever have a problem with that or no?

1641
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 1: Was it always easy for you? Like actor? I was four,

1642
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, I'm I'm acting. My first movie was

1643
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: the term artist is harder, which for us it was

1644
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaking was like what you are? Your filmmaker? It's

1645
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 1: like yeah, and so I think that was the same

1646
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: thing like are you a son Yawson? Are you spiritual?

1647
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: And wearing the clothes was forcing you to say, like you,

1648
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: I'm a filmmaker, I'm an artist, I'm a spiritual person.

1649
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 1: It's like it was a little bit of a funk

1650
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,680
Speaker 1: you to the world, but it was like taking ownership

1651
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: over a decision you made in your life. The disco

1652
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: on the grounds of the compound, there was a disco,

1653
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: there was a club. Did they charge people to get

1654
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,719
Speaker 1: into the disco. I don't think so. No, Basically their

1655
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: disco that they okay, So they had a couple of

1656
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: things that were year round, and then they had a

1657
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,719
Speaker 1: couple of things that were temporary for the world festival

1658
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: that they would throw. Like they legitimately had a casino,

1659
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure that casino was only a temporary

1660
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 1: casino license that they for those few from the Oregon

1661
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: state government that would allow like legal gambling on their

1662
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: private protty and stuff like that during the being celebration.

1663
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,920
Speaker 1: I think, I'm I should know this, but I think

1664
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: you could get alcohol year round on the ranch. But

1665
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: alcohol wasn't that big a rash niche perm But I

1666
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 1: know in the world festival like it was like party.

1667
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: It was like a party. It was like it was

1668
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: like it looks pretty like a student, looks like it was.

1669
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: It was off the It was a little bit of

1670
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 1: an interesting distinction that I wish, hopefully we like the

1671
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: series makes, but it's it takes kind of this type

1672
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: of talk to get to get it, which is, if

1673
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 1: you lived on the ranch year round, you were one

1674
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: type of san yasen incredibly devoted and committed to think

1675
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: if you were what I call like an international or

1676
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 1: global san yas a lot of times you had a

1677
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: normal job, but it was like yeah, but it was like,

1678
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: come these two weeks in the world festival, you're gonna

1679
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: save up your money, you're gonna go hit up roshnich PM,

1680
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 1: and you're gonna go have a kick ass two weeks.

1681
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: And they probably weren't as devoted to in the community.

1682
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: They were probably more normal people that just kind of

1683
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: had quote unquote normal lives, normal jobs, but this was

1684
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 1: a big part of their kind of summer vacation. The

1685
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: one of the part of the film, you guys used

1686
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: the clips from the Ashram and Puna very intense. It

1687
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: looks like sixteen millimeter footage I don't remember what episode,

1688
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,719
Speaker 1: but it's like they're in a rubber room, they're naked,

1689
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: they're screaming, they're yelling, it's like they're fighting, they're fucking.

1690
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 1: I don't know what the funk is going on. What

1691
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 1: footage from the Ashram and Puna documentary that was used

1692
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: in Wild Wild Country documentary? What else is there? Because

1693
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:36,320
Speaker 1: that ship looks scary. Yeah, So what that basically was

1694
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,679
Speaker 1: is that was a filmed representation of what they called

1695
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 1: their encounter groups. And there were these very like new

1696
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: age therapies taking hold of like Berkeley and and and

1697
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: the Lent Institute and Big sur and called it's called

1698
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 1: primal therapy and therapy, and it was you know, they

1699
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 1: don't do them anymore, but in these were popular, not

1700
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 1: just in you can't do that and you can't do it.

1701
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I absolutely, but I mean this wasn't just

1702
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: done in the Austroam. This was kind of done all

1703
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: over Australia had a big primal screen therapy. And the

1704
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 1: idea was like you let it out, man, like you

1705
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 1: have a tantrum, you go physical, you fight. Uh, you know,

1706
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 1: they would get all naked and wither around together and

1707
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 1: and then at the end you've you've come to this

1708
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 1: like eureka moment where cathartic release, you know, so we're

1709
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 1: very much was like therapeutically based. There wasn't there was

1710
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: a method to the man. It wasn't just it wasn't

1711
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 1: just beating the ship out of it was got hurt

1712
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: like some people like that. It was very controversial in India,

1713
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 1: and eventually, from my thing that I heard in research,

1714
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 1: it was one of the few times that Baguan and

1715
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: the Sanya since in general like kind of cave to

1716
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: the controversy in a sense of like, we're not doing

1717
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: this anymore because we're getting too much bad press, it's

1718
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: too out there, and so they stopped doing it in

1719
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: rash nis Perum. And as far as I know, and

1720
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will tell you this,

1721
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: it never happened in roshni Perum. That's why I think

1722
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: they were so like disappointed with that documentary that it

1723
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: came to Portland and showed in Portland, because it was like, yeah,

1724
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: this was a part of our past, but we don't

1725
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: do this anymore. We didn't really see the value in

1726
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: it so much. But it was something that stayed with

1727
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: them even to this day. I mean it was we

1728
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 1: put it in our documentary because for Antelopeans, it really

1729
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: was the well, these are the new neighbors now, you know,

1730
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 1: And it was the documentary itself, not our documentary, but

1731
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 1: Ostrom and Puna was such a critical document as a

1732
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: part of the Rashness history because it kind of always

1733
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 1: tended to follow the followers no matter where they went. Okay,

1734
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 1: for me, the lawyer guy Iran, he acted like all

1735
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: of them were just total victims. Nobody did anything wrong.

1736
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 1: And what was your takeaway from interviewing him? That was

1737
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: one of the most Did you shoot that with two

1738
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: cameras or two cameras and we'll kind of punch in

1739
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 1: every once in a while, so it looks like it

1740
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 1: can be multiple cameras, okay, because it looks a good

1741
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: looking interview. And and also, like I mean, he's an

1742
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 1: interesting characters like not thing, not a fucking ounce, like anything.

1743
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: When you talk to Nuran, I think he feels very

1744
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 1: strongly that obviously like Sheila's crimes and those within her

1745
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: circle are atrocious and horrible, His deep down belief is

1746
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: he believes that the crimes that Sheila created were a

1747
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 1: smoke screen for like, created created a smoke screen for

1748
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: the government to like overreach and persecute their group and

1749
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 1: the whole entire specifically, so and and and and there's

1750
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 1: probably a legitimate argument to be made where I think

1751
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: the federal government and the state government knew at some

1752
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 1: point that, all right, the way to deal with this

1753
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 1: whole fucking rashnish problem it's people out there is if

1754
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 1: we can just deport the guru. These people follow this

1755
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: guy wherever he goes. So it's kind of like, and

1756
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: there's a document where they said cutting off the head

1757
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 1: of the snake. I mean that was kind of their

1758
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 1: own language that they used. So and I think Noran

1759
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: feels that sincerely that it was like, but the government,

1760
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: and his thing is like the governments to be better

1761
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: than that. Sheila and her cohort and her crimes are

1762
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: one thing, But that doesn't mean that you get to

1763
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 1: attack the pope because you know, Catholic priests are doing

1764
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 1: ship that they're not supposed to be doing. That was

1765
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 1: not not saying that I agree with that, but that

1766
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: was his And I think it's a total vowed takeaway

1767
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, this group that you're a part

1768
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: of and this leader like was somehow all this horrible

1769
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: ship happened because of this group. But I think for

1770
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 1: those inside the group, there's so many fractures within that

1771
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: community that they feel so far removed from Sheila's crimes,

1772
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: like they had no idea what was going on. And

1773
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: that was the experience that most of the people we

1774
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 1: talked with, if you were not part of that like

1775
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 1: fifteen person circle that Sheila controlled, they were really kind

1776
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: of naively oblivious to what was going on. I mean,

1777
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 1: obviously they knew about the homeless people coming in and

1778
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 1: taking but as far as the political assassinations, the poison,

1779
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: this is obviously not the morning Like Sheila and her

1780
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: crimes fucked us completely because we were doing nothing wrong

1781
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 1: and we were building this incredible utope you and now

1782
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 1: we're all taking the fall, and especially now they feel

1783
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: like they're guru is somehow being associated with all this criminality,

1784
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,280
Speaker 1: which I think it's really fascinating. What did the GURA know?

1785
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: What didn't he know? Was Sheila taking orders acting on

1786
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: her own? Until I have to say my take, you know,

1787
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 1: and I watched the film twice. My take was he

1788
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: had to know something, you know, they're having these these

1789
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 1: private meetings every night up at the house, like he

1790
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 1: has to know something, you know. That was just my take.

1791
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 1: And then it's like I'm like when with the lawyer guy,

1792
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 1: who like probably was the most frustrating one, I'm like,

1793
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 1: these things are poisoning people, assassination plots, bringing the homeless people,

1794
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: like none of this just just all coming from this

1795
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: one person. Come on, I I just can't believe she's

1796
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 1: not running it up the flagpole or coming up with

1797
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 1: the ideas. Are totally on the r own, you know,

1798
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 1: is it? You know, like the Jane you know he was,

1799
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,040
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I get his devotion, to

1800
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,640
Speaker 1: get his sadness, but like, you know, like unless there

1801
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: was something cut out, you know with him, I like

1802
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 1: or just also like the president of the United States

1803
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 1: is responsible for a ship that people blow him do

1804
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 1: and that's a little It's like if you buy into that,

1805
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 1: I think responsibility you have to say, like taking a

1806
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: vow of silence at the most crucial time and like

1807
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: your movement, it's probably not like the greatest act of responsibility.

1808
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: You know, people were looking to him for guidance, they

1809
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:27,040
Speaker 1: were looking to him for help, and he was kind

1810
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,879
Speaker 1: of nowhere to be found. And so but the interesting

1811
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 1: about what did you know? What didn't you know? When

1812
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: we talked to like the federal prosecutors, they were like,

1813
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 1: we couldn't find any evidence that tied them to any

1814
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,719
Speaker 1: of this, Like we couldn't find anything the wire taps,

1815
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,559
Speaker 1: because they that's the greatest. So that's what the lawyer says,

1816
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: that's his defense. The lawyer says, like if they had

1817
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 1: something on those tapes, like the the FBI would have

1818
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: released it. They would have prosecuted him. I mean, they

1819
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: have the ten thousand tapes. There's no way they didn't

1820
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: go through all these tapes if there was something damaging

1821
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: on him, because they would have come out and gotten him.

1822
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: Which is interesting. You know, you guys talk about the

1823
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: tapes in the film, but you don't. You never because

1824
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: I thought, all this is going to be a device

1825
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 1: going forward. Did you get to listen to the tapes?

1826
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: We didn't. So there was a Freedom of Information Act

1827
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: that we that we filed and that was requested. But

1828
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: because like the participants in the wire tapping did not

1829
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: know that they were being recorded, the federal government is

1830
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 1: not allowed to release these tapes. And so no one's listened,

1831
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 1: but they listened to it. They said they listen to

1832
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: it was a it's a little bit murky on whether

1833
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,920
Speaker 1: those tapes would even be admissible in court or not,

1834
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: because listen in terms of when they were when you

1835
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 1: were just saying that they I believe that the federal

1836
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: officials are very cagy. They won't tell you what it's on,

1837
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 1: but they feel very confident that had this gone to

1838
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 1: a try, we would have the goods. The other thing

1839
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:44,800
Speaker 1: that was interesting, as they told us, was like they

1840
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: couldn't get anyone to flip on the Guru. Like usually

1841
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: when you when you infiltrate these sex and these movements,

1842
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 1: there's so much resenting in the mayor guy what was

1843
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,160
Speaker 1: his name, they got him, that was the one guy

1844
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: even he never flipped on the Guru. He didn't flip

1845
01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 1: on the Guri flipped on Sheila and you know, saying

1846
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 1: all the stuff that that Sheila did. And so that's

1847
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 1: what they're saying, Like usually there's groups there's so much

1848
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 1: resentment and regret that it's really easy to get people

1849
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 1: to flip. But these people felt like this was like

1850
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 1: the best experiment of their lives and we're just not

1851
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 1: willing to give up anything. That was I mean compelling

1852
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 1: dramatic moment when he flipped and then Nurran nouran Uh

1853
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: you know it's talking about it. I mean it's it's

1854
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 1: like fucking you know, breaking bad or sopranos or like

1855
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: it's like this, I rated, you know, I mean, no

1856
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 1: one likes a rat how bad things? You know, no

1857
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: one likes a meditating spiritual ratty because it's like, um

1858
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 1: so Nuran Duran, Sorry, what is he is? He still

1859
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer, He's not. He's not practicing anymore. He lives

1860
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: up in the Northwest, and I think you know, for

1861
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 1: the last year's it's been really devoted. He's filed tons

1862
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:53,839
Speaker 1: of freedom of information acts. He has tons of legal

1863
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 1: documents that show, you know, collusion between what he believes

1864
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: is a collusion between government agencies to kind of bend

1865
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 1: the law and get this guru out of the United States.

1866
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:05,640
Speaker 1: And so he's been working on this book for a

1867
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 1: couple of years, which he feels is going to be

1868
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: in a very explosive tell all book of what he's

1869
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: uncovered in his research. And he shared a little bit

1870
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: of that with us in our interview. Um we showed

1871
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 1: some of those documents that that the government was talking

1872
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: about the time. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's

1873
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 1: diving in even more. I'm sure. I mean, because you

1874
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 1: know now is the time, um, when the Guru was

1875
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:32,720
Speaker 1: arrested and and and left the country. Um. I mean

1876
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 1: that that you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna end this

1877
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 1: interview soon. But I mean that whole process of like

1878
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: them flying him and landing him in Oklahoma City and

1879
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 1: made me think of Russell Westbrook and you know, like

1880
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 1: that whole thing and you know, like really sort of

1881
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 1: giving him the business. The question they have is when

1882
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 1: they finally when he finally left Oregon, what happens to

1883
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:55,600
Speaker 1: the ranch? Like how quick did did people leave and

1884
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 1: how quick did it we go to to be you know,

1885
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: like sort of unfunctioned and who owned it? Sure, so

1886
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:05,799
Speaker 1: they had within once the gun. Once the Guru was arrested,

1887
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,679
Speaker 1: he ends up taking a plea deal um and agrees

1888
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 1: to leave the country. And I believe was in with

1889
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 1: when within weeks to a month people started filing out

1890
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: of there. I mean their main purpose for being there

1891
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: was to hear him speak, to be around his enlightened presence,

1892
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: and so it became very clear that they could not

1893
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 1: sustain that community financially without the Guru there. And so

1894
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 1: they had many different corporations that they set up. I

1895
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: think it was like rosh Niche Foundation International, And they

1896
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 1: had a separate LLC that owned the ranch, a separate

1897
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:37,719
Speaker 1: LLC that did all the book sales, a separate LLC

1898
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: that owned all the rolls royces. So it's very like

1899
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,680
Speaker 1: financially complex how they set up their financial structure. But

1900
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:47,679
Speaker 1: eventually they wanted to sell the entire ranch. They couldn't

1901
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 1: really find anyone to pay what they wanted for it.

1902
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 1: There was some talk of them turning it into a

1903
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,719
Speaker 1: prison out there for a while. The state was looking

1904
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: at and they would have loved to go. The Antelopeans

1905
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,919
Speaker 1: would have loved the ranch. They go exactly. But yeah, basically,

1906
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 1: the insurance company that was given the mortgage to the

1907
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 1: roshni She's ends up taking it over and they end

1908
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:09,920
Speaker 1: up selling it to Dennis Washington, who's like this Montana

1909
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: billionaire who's made his money and kind of trains and

1910
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,919
Speaker 1: not oil but steel I think in Montana, and Dennis

1911
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 1: I think was very interested in the ranch because one

1912
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 1: of the unique things is that the rush Ni she's

1913
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 1: one on land use and their incorporation always remained intact.

1914
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:28,599
Speaker 1: They lost on church state, which was in the courts.

1915
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:31,639
Speaker 1: They lost ultimately saying that they did violate the separation

1916
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:33,719
Speaker 1: of church and state. But on land use they wanted

1917
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 1: the Oregon Supreme Court. So Dennis Washington, I think was

1918
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:38,040
Speaker 1: interested in owning this piece of property that had an

1919
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:41,280
Speaker 1: incorporated city attached to it. He kind of ran into

1920
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 1: some of his development problems. I think he had bigger

1921
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: plans to do with it, and then ultimately, after like

1922
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:47,800
Speaker 1: a year or two, ends up giving it to Young Life,

1923
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of this youth Christian group that owns

1924
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:51,600
Speaker 1: it today and or the current. Did you guys go

1925
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 1: up there? Yeah, yeah, yeah we did. We filmed a

1926
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: little bit like when you see some like the broken

1927
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 1: down a frames and stuff that's still on the property

1928
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: up there up there in the where you when you

1929
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: guys have finally got up there, like like were you

1930
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 1: tripping out, like oh ship, Like it would really gnarly

1931
01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:06,799
Speaker 1: when you get out there. They still have the airport

1932
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 1: strip out there, and the downtown mall that they built

1933
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:13,800
Speaker 1: is still built and it's striking just how much in

1934
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 1: the middle of no where you are. I mean, you're

1935
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: just surrounded by vast, vast mountains, and there's definitely like

1936
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm not a spiritual person, but there's some energy that

1937
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: you get out there that's like, man, we're in the

1938
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, and this is a little bit weird,

1939
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 1: to be honest. You know, it's just seeing the remnants

1940
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 1: of the city. You'll see little things here and there

1941
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 1: that you know, we're that we're built by the rosh nation,

1942
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Starbucks and Antelope now and there's there's no Starbucks now.

1943
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean they claim and never really recovered,

1944
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 1: you know, I mean now it's down and out. I mean,

1945
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: I know this sounds horrible, but it's kind of like, well,

1946
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,439
Speaker 1: probably a little bit drug infested. It looks like a

1947
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: little they have met issues, and you know, it's become

1948
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,560
Speaker 1: a town that's you know, struggling like the rest of

1949
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 1: kind of small towns. All right, listen, my final question,

1950
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:03,760
Speaker 1: do you guys have any idea what you're gonna do next?

1951
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:06,519
Speaker 1: I know it's probably a shitty question, especially after you

1952
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 1: come off with something that cause such a got such

1953
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:10,920
Speaker 1: a passionate foul. Do you know what you do. We

1954
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 1: work in development on two different documentary series, so I

1955
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:15,479
Speaker 1: think we're gonna try and do kind of at the

1956
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: same time that we're also teaming up with Mark and

1957
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 1: j D plus on and we're just not talking about

1958
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 1: it yet because we're still getting the characters on board. Um,

1959
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 1: but one is like an entirely different story than than

1960
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,560
Speaker 1: Wild Wall Country, and then I think one will be

1961
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of a similar kind of depth deep dive into culture, politics, power,

1962
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: are um something a little bit. It's interesting because I

1963
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:40,160
Speaker 1: think that like we didn't we wanted to do the

1964
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,519
Speaker 1: story of Roshni Pergem as a documentary series because it

1965
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 1: was great to the story, and I think that now

1966
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:47,679
Speaker 1: we've become attracted to stories that we could tell again

1967
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: in the documentary series format. It's just such a bigger

1968
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,760
Speaker 1: canvas and you're able to play with so much more

1969
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,600
Speaker 1: room and space. And like in Wild Law Country, we

1970
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 1: got to tell a Nike story, and we got to

1971
01:34:57,880 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: tell like a you know, a whole bunch of stuff

1972
01:34:59,880 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: that seemingly isn't related, but you get to kind of

1973
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 1: work in and tell a bigger story. So we're really

1974
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 1: excited about dr Siries. You get a platform like this

1975
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,080
Speaker 1: people who feel like they have a story that they

1976
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 1: want to tell, it becomes a more viable opportunity. And

1977
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: so it's been interesting since the release that you know,

1978
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 1: we are starting to talk to characters that feel like

1979
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,080
Speaker 1: we have information to divulge on these news stories that

1980
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 1: we're doing, which is really exciting. I just gotta get

1981
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: more on board. The guy what's his name, the Nike soman, Like,

1982
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:26,720
Speaker 1: do you did you like ask him like to hook

1983
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:28,720
Speaker 1: you up with like some like Rare Jordan's Does he

1984
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: have that kind of hook? Is he fucking rich? Out

1985
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 1: of his father created Nike co found con he invented

1986
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:39,400
Speaker 1: the shoe. Bill Bauerman created the waffle shoe, the running shoe,

1987
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: you know, and then teamed up with Phil Knights, like

1988
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 1: in his crib is you're like fucking Nikes and like

1989
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 1: they they're pretty. They have a lot of history and

1990
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 1: his wife actually found the original waffle iron that they

1991
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:51,679
Speaker 1: made the first Nike shoe on which Nike now owns

1992
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:55,400
Speaker 1: I think in their Portland headquarters or Seattle. But no,

1993
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 1: apparently Bauerman will be the first to tell you. Apparently

1994
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 1: he sold stock too early. So all right, well listen,

1995
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:04,920
Speaker 1: I I can't tell you how much of an accomplishment,

1996
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 1: uh it is that you made this film so many

1997
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 1: more people are gonna see it, So congratulations. I loved it.

1998
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with it. I highly encourage everybody. I have

1999
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 1: not stopped talking about wild Wald Countries. Congratulations, it was dope.

2000
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: That's a great talk. Thanks for having us. Thank you

2001
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 1: so much for coming because I like, like I said

2002
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,599
Speaker 1: at the beginning, UM to be so excited about something

2003
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,960
Speaker 1: then to have you guys here, Uh, it's just like

2004
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:28,760
Speaker 1: cool because like you know that it's the power of

2005
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: sort of social media. So sincere congratulations and good look

2006
01:36:32,160 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 1: on the rest of your Thanks for having four