1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Along 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Well, let us turn out 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: to commercial real estate is suffering, that's for sure. Let's 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: bring in somebody who knows a lot about it. He 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: is founder of International Workplace Group otherwise known as i 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: w G Global Marketings and joins us. Now, Mark, just 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: give us the lay of the land. First of all, Well, 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: the lay of the land is not even The pandemic 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: has hit the metropolis city centers around the world. We 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: operate in a hundred twenty countries and that's been the 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: major impact. So in provincial locations countryside, we're up and 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: we're badly affected in down to down so people are 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: working close to where they live and they're working from home. 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: Our homework business has grown tenfold over the pandemic and 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: we're slightly hedged with that. So Mark, I guess one 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: of the questions that people are asking here is the 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: future of the city center itself? And this is a 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: I guess a global question. It's not just London in 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: New York. What is your view as we look towards 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: the other side of this pandemic about how the city 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: center as a work center will evolve. It changes forever. 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: It's rapid evolution. Um, you know, the the cities will 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: never be the same again. We will take some time 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: for the change to take place because people have to 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: get out of leases that they are already in. But 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: pretty much of all CEOs and leadership teams aren't now 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: positively in a mode of hybrid workings. Hybrid working means 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: the company saves lots of money, they can hire better talent, 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: and they allow people to work either from home or 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: close to home, and they come into a sort of 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: headquarters when they need to or if they haven't got 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: they live in the city itself. So, you know, hybrid 37 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: working has such strong economic and environmental advantages. It's going 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: to happen, and it's what people want. They've whatever people say. 39 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: For most the pandemic has gone on for too long, 40 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: but they have been quite productive working on zoom teams 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: and the like. You know, companies. It has worked. It's 42 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: an experiment that worked, and it will continue and it 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: will become the norm. So talk to us about occupancy rates. 44 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: Can you give us a sort of a percentage across 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: your portfolio and and also where you might be thinking 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: of getting out of commercial real estate the way it 47 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: is now changing it into something like storage or what 48 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: have you. Well, look for us. We we've we've got 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: three and a half thousand buildings. We're in all sorts 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: of markets. So look, we are expanding in the countryside. 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: We have been for a while actually because this change 52 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: was occurring prethe The pandemic is just accelerated with it 53 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: um and so we were expanding in the countryside. We 54 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: are adding more even in the cities. Because it's not 55 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: what companies are looking for a flexibility. They're looking for products. 56 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: They don't you know, what companies don't want or want 57 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: less of is a five or ten year least. They 58 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: want flexibility, they want products. So this for a company 59 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: like ours, where we provide a fully operational office ready 60 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: to use for a couple of people or for a 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: thousand people, you know that that is what's being being 62 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: looked for. So we're working more with property owners who 63 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: at the other end of this, if they're long in 64 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: the market, they are looking for different ways to get 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: revenue and providing a finished product is a great way 66 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: to do that. So we are seeing some growth. We 67 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: are adding capacity in some cities. We would expect that 68 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,679 Speaker 1: to continue. So it's more in the countryside, the cities, 69 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: the provinces where people live, and in the cities themselves. 70 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: Apart from adding inventory, we're having to adjust prices of 71 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: out our input prices. I with our partners, we're having 72 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: to lower our costs in order to be more competitive 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: because it's going to be a much more competitive marketplace 74 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: because there's going to be less demand more supply. So 75 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: marketing some of these big city centers and I just 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: think the last time I was in London, there's cranes everywhere. 77 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: What are some of these commercial real estate owners going 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to do with all this office space? Well, it's um, 79 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: it's going to get repurposed. I mean, look, the real 80 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: estate market is a market that's very fickle and I've 81 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: I've started our business thirty one years ago and I've 82 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: seen it go up and down, and it's it is 83 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: markets like London that have more oscillation. The bigger the city, 84 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: the more the move. But you know, in the future, 85 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, cities are going to have to reinvent themselves 86 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: and become a more reasonably priced place to live. And 87 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: you know, the cost of office place will have to 88 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: come down over time, so it has to be economical 89 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: for both for companies to be there. London, as an example, 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: became extremely expensive per person to house someone and the 91 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: cost of living I you know, people finding an apartment 92 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: close to where they live and not having to commute 93 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: for two hours a day to get there. It's that combination. 94 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: So there will be a repricing and I'm sure many 95 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: cities will reinvent themselves with lower prices and a tramp 96 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: favor back in. Hey, Mark, thank you so much for joining. 97 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 1: It's just a fascinating discussion. We really appreciate your insight. 98 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: Mark Dixon, founder and CEO of i w g A Global, 99 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: just giving us the view, the forecast, if you will, 100 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: of real estate and urban centers, a major evolution taking place. 101 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: Let's pivot to the consumer package goods business that's certainly 102 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: seen some changes here as a result of the pandemic. 103 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: We can do that with Jordan Gaspar Jordan's is managing 104 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: partner and president of A f Ventures, joining us on 105 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: the phone from Wellington, Florida. A Adventures is a women 106 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: owned VC firm focusing on better for you consumer brands 107 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: and categories including food and beverage, beauty and personnel care, 108 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: health and wellness, and whole bunch of others. Jordan, thanks 109 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: so much for joining us here. Talk to us about 110 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: the consumer package goods business. It seems, obviously as a 111 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: result of the pandemic be people are buying a lot 112 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: more in the supermarket, going out less to eat. What 113 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: are you seeing as some of these trends and how 114 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: permanent might they be? Hi, thank you so much for 115 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: having me so UM. As you said, I imagining partner 116 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: of Adventures, and we are a fund that exclusively invest 117 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: in consumer products across the verticals of food and beverage, 118 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: personal care, pet, beauty, health and wellness UM and so 119 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: of our over thirty five companies UM, thirty two of 120 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: them are food and beverage companies. And so it's been 121 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: an an interesting year for us UM, particularly as all 122 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: of our products are distributed UM at most of the 123 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: major retailers as well as online. UM. You know two 124 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: thousand and twenty will mark the year of changing consumption patterns. 125 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: You know, we saw um an increased emphasis of the 126 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: consumer on self care products, UM, the rise of personalization, 127 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: and just this general idea of food as health UM. 128 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: You know, coming in formats like inguestible beauty. Beyond that, 129 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: we saw the food itself, you know, continue to evolve 130 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: as people we're focusing on you know, healthy living directed 131 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: products like plant based alternatives. UM. But now with this 132 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: new concept of the grab and stay option, you know, 133 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: with so many people no longer going to eat out, 134 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: people need to find solutions that were easily adopted in 135 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: their homes. UM. And so we'll see a lot of 136 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: changes in two thousand and twenty one in terms of format, 137 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: packaging and continents and self and and really playing into 138 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: sort of a rise and sustainability in the space in general. 139 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: Way to hear about some of that, but the first 140 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: you have to give me an idea of what ingustible 141 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: beauty is. Yes, so inguestible beauty, I mean, you know, 142 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: they're sort of a blurring of the line between personal care, 143 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: beauty and food that have been occurring, and it had 144 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: started in predated COVID, but you know, we've invested in 145 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: the company called a New Code, which is a line 146 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: of products geared towards UM you know, you know, supporting skin, gut, mood, health, 147 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: UM and covers you know, different needs states of sleep, immunity, 148 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: focus and stress and comes in powder formats and capsules 149 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: and tinctures and so the idea is that UM not 150 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: just going to be topicals that you put on your skin, 151 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: but it's also going to be you know, things that 152 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: you put inside your body. And so if you think 153 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: about you know, some of the really big focus coming 154 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: out of this year and exits in the space you know, 155 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: v MS has been has had a really huge year 156 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: in terms of people really thinking about how to take 157 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: care of themselves from within. So how are brands dealing 158 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: UM Jordan's kind of much more of the of shopping, 159 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: including consumer products moving to e commerce. How are they 160 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: adopting to that. It's a new world for food and beverage, right, 161 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, we knew that we had Amazon and you know, 162 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: detail in the form of Fresh directs UM. You know 163 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: that we're already players in the market UM, but during COVID, 164 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: click and collect UM and the ability for consumers to 165 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: be purchasing from Walmart and Target more easily. UM has 166 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: has really risen and and that will be a more 167 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: permanent shift. You know, people will go back eventually UM 168 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: into producing shelves and brick and mortar, but there will 169 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: be large spread adoption of some of these new UM 170 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: sort of sort omni distribution outlets. You know. Beyond that, 171 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, digital marketing itself is going to change. You know, 172 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: for the first time, we're seeing fresh and frozen food 173 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: companies UM that are authentic young brands, developing DTWOC strategies, 174 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: and so you know, we're going to see what comes 175 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: out of this is just the true omni channel brands 176 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: UM and that brands will be built expecting to be 177 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: sold in brick and mortar as well as directly to 178 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: their consumers. Jordan's how many times have you been approached 179 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: by SPACs in the last few months for your various 180 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: portfolio companies. It is it is a stack moment in 181 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the summer, so UM. I think that there is an 182 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: enormous amount of stack activity in the market. UM And 183 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: and we do think that you know, SPACs will certainly 184 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: find some UM great partners in food and beverage in 185 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: particular but across consumer So go on how many times 186 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: are there are there portfolio companies that you might be 187 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: looking to go public with that way? UM, I think 188 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: that the public markets have really opened up for food 189 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: and beverage. And I think that we do see that 190 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: with the success of companies like Beyond and Tattooed Chef. 191 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: There is no question, UM, there is now the strategy 192 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: for you know, liquidity, for these companies to not just 193 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: be private but also too you know in terms of 194 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: private act and sponsors, but to be increasingly in the 195 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: public markets. UM. And So There'll be a lot of 196 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: different outcomes, but there is it will be a big 197 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: year in food and beverage. So Jordan's our new products 198 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: coming to market during this pandemic or our consumer products 199 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: company saying our R and D our new product launches, 200 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna wait till after It depends on who you're 201 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: talking to. UM. So I think that from the Bantas 202 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: point of our portfolio, new products are certainly coming to market. 203 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: There was you know a little bit of a brief 204 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: pause on innovation where pipelines were halted very temporarily early 205 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: on during COVID. For the UM the portfolio companies to 206 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: get their bearings and see, you know how things were 207 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: on full in retail, but that innovation was in process, 208 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: and so there's innovation that's now in process to come 209 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: onto shelf and did through the back half of the 210 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: year as well as in will in two thousand twenty 211 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: one because suppliers that were able to deliver and to 212 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: meet the expectations of their buyers were certainly allocated self space. UM. 213 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: Beyond that, there are new preferences that have been built 214 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: and so innovation lines are being developed off of changing 215 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: consumer preferences. So you know, we think innovation continues to thrive. UM. 216 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: It will just be you know, sort of quality manufacturers 217 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: who have the ability to to really um properly stock 218 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: the shelves and to deliver in a way that people 219 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: can trust that the products are going to meet expectations 220 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: of both the retail partners and the consumer. Jordan's thank 221 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. Will certainly given 222 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: touch of you throughout the year. No doubt there will 223 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: be activity among your companies. Jordan Gaspar is moniting partner 224 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: and president of a f Adventure is a very interesting 225 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: consumer and packaged goods and beauty company h venture fund. 226 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. This morning, a preceived another 227 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: job's claims a number frustratingly higher, much higher than expected, 228 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: almost a million claims uh last month. Really putting pressure 229 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: on present like Biden too uh put through and propose 230 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: a much a significant fiscal stimulus plan to break it down. 231 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: We welcome Carl Ricka Donna, Chief US economist for Bloomberg Economics. Carl, 232 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: let's start with that jobless claim number. What's your takeaway? Well, 233 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: there's good news and there's bad news, Paul. The bad 234 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: news is that nearly a million people filed for unemployment 235 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: insurance last week. But the good news is that a 236 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: million people will be receiving unemployment checks to support their 237 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: income during this difficult period for the economy and one 238 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: of the critical uh, you know, issues for the economy 239 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: of building a bridge loan until we can reopen. The 240 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: economy and a lot of households, whether we look at 241 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: the income trends or food stamp applications or other types 242 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: of signs of financial stress, are really in a difficult 243 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: period right now. So we do need to paper over 244 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: some of the pain, patch up some of the pain 245 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: with the aid in terms of food stamps, unemployment checks, 246 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: and rebate checks from the government until we can get 247 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: to a post lockdown economy. In this week's data, we 248 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: see nearly more than two hundred thousand people more than 249 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: economists we're looking for claiming this week to January nine, 250 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: which is an interesting sort of little detail in itself. 251 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: Each one of these people not a detail, of course, 252 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: They're all human beings, and I'm curious as to why 253 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: economists might have got it so wrong. Are there more 254 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: people out there unemployed and underemployed that we're just not seeing? Well, 255 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: I think a big factor here. There's been a little 256 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: bit of a mystery since early November, when lockdown measures 257 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: start to intensify. We really didn't see the fallout in 258 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: the unemployment filings data. So we we expected way back 259 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: by before Thanksgiving even to start to see the steady 260 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: move higher and jobless claims over the last really last 261 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: eight weeks or so. Uh, and it only happened to 262 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: a very limited degree, which seemed inconsistent with restaurants being 263 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: shut down, indoor dining bands, and all of the other 264 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: restrictions that are going into place. So while I hate 265 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: to be vindicated, Uh in looking for that that we 266 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: do see that showing up in today's data. So you know, 267 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: at this time of year, there's very big seasonal factors 268 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: as people are laid off as cold weather sets in, 269 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: if they had outdoor employment, for instance, or holiday related hiring, 270 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: all of those things. Uh, they tend to distort the data. 271 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: And this is certainly an atypical period we're in. So 272 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: using typical seasonal factors is hard to apply to the 273 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: current environment, but it's really the best we can do 274 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: as as statisticians. Uh. The other factor is, uh the 275 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: recent passage of the stimulus bill. Uh, those sweetened unemployment 276 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: checks and also stimulus checks. That does incentivize some people 277 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: who may be figured it wasn't worth filing for unemployment 278 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: to actually uh take the effort to do it now 279 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: that there will be a more enticing reward, uh if 280 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: their applications accepted. Carl, We're expected to hear from President 281 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: le Biden later today talking about perhaps fiscal stimulus plan. 282 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: What do you really need to see in his plan? Well, 283 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: there's the the pie in the sky version, and there's 284 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: the reality of a split Senate with the Vice President 285 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris casting the deciding vote, and so pie in 286 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: the sky stimulus, which could be green energy and infrastructure investment, 287 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: and of course aid uh for uh uh you know 288 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: the current economic downturn. Uh. That would be great if 289 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: we could see that, and that was certainly force GDP 290 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: to a higher number. But I think the reality of 291 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: the situation is that we're going to see much more 292 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: limited stimulus. Already, Joe Mansion of West Virginia has expressed 293 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: some concerns about astronomical price tag, so I think the 294 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: reality will be we can talk about a two trillion 295 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: dollar plan, we're more likely to see six eight hundred billion. Carl. 296 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: Speaking of major speeches, today, we hear from Jerry J. Powell. 297 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: Is he likely to say anything that will surprise the market? 298 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't think so. J. Powell is giving speaking on 299 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: an academic lecture at the Princeton University Benheim Center for Finance, 300 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: so I'm an alumni of that. So that's exciting in 301 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: that regard. But as an election, you know, as they 302 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: an opportunity to really steer the markets, this doesn't seem 303 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: like the right platform to be doing that. So at 304 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: best I think we might get some insight into how 305 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: he is thinking about the inflation and growth landscape, but 306 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: this is not the opportunity to really create a new 307 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: policy signal. Carl Rick Donna, thank you as always. Carl 308 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: is chief you as economist for Bloomberg Economics, and we 309 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: always appreciate his insights. Once again, that initial jobs claims 310 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: data coming out and just you know, sending chills down 311 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: our spines. Sixty five thousand people filing claims to the 312 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: week of January nine, and of course the week earlier 313 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: was revised, but only by five thousand. It's it's not 314 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: like we're not seeing what's in the data, or it's 315 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: not like yet the data or opaque or anything like that. 316 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: We also got continuing claims obviously five point two seven 317 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: one million, which is more than we were anticipating as well. 318 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: And it's on Wall Street time for Bloomberg Opinion Today 319 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: we're joined by at Lisa Martinouzi, Bloomberg Opinion columnists covering finance, 320 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: and she has a fascinating column out today talking about 321 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: and analyzing the relationship between President Trump, his busin this 322 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: is and Deutsche Bank. At Leasta, thanks so much for 323 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: joining us here. It seems like we're seeing a lot 324 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: of corporations trying to back away and distance themselves from 325 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: the president and his companies. That's not going to be 326 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: so easy for Deutsche Bank to do, is it. Yes, Now, 327 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: that's right, I think. Um. You know, what you have 328 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: to consider is that this is an ongoing and very 329 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: long standing lending relationship, one that has been going on 330 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: for decades um to begin with, but also one that 331 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: will linger. Because so we understand that Deutsche Bank has 332 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: now committed not to be doing any new business with 333 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: Donald Trump nor his companies or his entities, they are 334 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: still sitting on loans that Donald Trump owes um ow 335 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: s Deutsche Bank, and it's going to be a little 336 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: bit tricky to extricate themselves from that relationship for a 337 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: number of reasons. First and foremost, um, you know, may 338 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: not be easy to find any anyone willing to take 339 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: on that debt off them. But even if they did, 340 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: this long standing relationship, we know it's going to be 341 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: on come under the microscope. We know is going to 342 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: be scrutinized. There are several investigations ongoing at various levels 343 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: that could well see douortship banks being dragged out. Not 344 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: so much because it's been necessarily accute of any wrongdoing, 345 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: but certainly their business practices will come under the radar. 346 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: There's a bit of a theory out there, and I 347 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: don't know how serious it is or if it's just 348 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: something that was floated that you know, people of a 349 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: democratic leaning bent, let's say, who might run credit jobs 350 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: or whatever it might pick this stuff up for a 351 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: very cheap and try to get something from Donald Trump. Yes, no, 352 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: that that you know could could well happen. But in 353 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: terms of where doorship banks relationship goes and where doorship banks, um, 354 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's history hitherto in its relation with Donald 355 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: Trump that will remain potentially under scrutiny. And you know 356 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to their business practices. Um. You know, 357 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: this is a bank that is you know, tried and 358 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: recently is very hard to um you know, rebuild. It's 359 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: the two improve controls, improved governance. After decades of exponential 360 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: growth that basically saw it, you know, taking on greater 361 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: and wat to risk and that's resulted in um, you know, 362 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: allegations and and you know find for many, many billions 363 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: of dollars, and you know, this is just going to 364 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: reignite that interest in the businesses of Deutsche Bank and 365 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: how it goes about winning winning clients and winning business. 366 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: At least, it's gonna be fascinating to see how the 367 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: president and his business uh fund themselves going forward, because 368 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: up until this point, there was no other money center 369 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: UH institution lending money to the Trump corporation that came 370 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: down to. Deutsche Bank was the only one. And it 371 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: wasn't even the corporate and investment bank at Deutsche Bank. 372 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: It was the private bank. And now the private banker 373 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: for President Trump has left Deutsche Bank. So it it 374 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: really raises the questions how the Trump organization will capitalize 375 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: its business going forward. What do we know about that? 376 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: I think that's you know, extremely early to speculate on that. Um, 377 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: you know, your wife they do you know, dutche Bankers 378 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: appeared to be the principal London, but you know, there 379 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: may be more that we learn about these finances going forward. UM. 380 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: I think it's you know, a little bit too early 381 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: to speculate. I mean, clearly, UM, he will be a 382 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: you know he is and will remain a polarizing figure. Um. 383 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: And and that will affect you know, his dealings and 384 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: the dealings of those who have been you know, enabling 385 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: him over the years. And of course we also had Signature, 386 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: which is a much smaller, a boutique kind of bank, 387 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: who might take over from them? Will anybody step up 388 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: to the place? As I said, I think I think 389 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: it's a little bit early to you know, to speculate 390 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: on all this. Um. I think what we do know 391 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: is that you know, obviously, um, you know a lot 392 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: of businesses, a lot of institutions have been distancing themselves 393 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: and vowing not to do business with Trump and his organizations. UM. 394 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: From from including the City of New York, the p G, 395 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: A and A and its golf tournaments, and that is 396 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, undas peopill have repercussions on on his entourage 397 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: at least. How concerned is Deutsche Bank do you believe 398 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: about its reputation and maybe maybe the business risk it 399 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: faces from some of its customers saying we don't want 400 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: to do business with you. Are they concerned about or 401 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: how concerned are they about this going forward? I think 402 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, this could be you know, a moment in 403 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: which you know, perhaps there's there's more support in in 404 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: in in in what in how Deutsch about me? Try 405 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: to um? You know, sever that relationship, UM, certainly more 406 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: support than it might have had, you know, you know 407 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: before last week. UM, I think what what is certainly 408 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: um the cases that you know, they are trying to 409 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: maintain the market share in the US. It's not growth 410 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: the market share in the US. It's still a very 411 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: important business for anyone, for for an investment bank such 412 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: as Deutsche Bank. Um, and it is one in which 413 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: you know that will draw headlines um which whichever where 414 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: you cut it, and you know that's not often not 415 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: often good for an about bank. You obviously, you know, 416 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: look at all aspects of Deutsche Bank's reputation here and 417 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: point out in your column that institutional Shareholder Services rate 418 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank D minus, which is the lowest score, and 419 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: I S S is extraordinarily well respected and also sort 420 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: of you know, bound by when it comes to institutional investing. 421 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: So how long does it take for you know, a 422 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: major major institution like Deutsche Bank to sort of rehabilitate 423 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: its reputation. That's a good question. I think, you know, 424 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: the focus on on E s G is only increasing 425 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: as we speak, and investors are paying more attention to it, 426 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: and um, you know it'll there is a long, long 427 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: list of situations that Deutsche Bank has been involved in 428 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: UM that have led to the school UM. And it 429 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: will certainly take time. I mean, this isn't something that 430 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: you fix UM in a year or so. This is 431 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, this have to They'll have to demonstrate that 432 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: their controls and governance has improved UM and then you 433 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: know that that you know the type of for me, 434 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: it takes you know, years, not months. At Lisa, how 435 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: important is the US market to Deutsche Bank. They obviously 436 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: have their challenges in their home market of Germany, but 437 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: they've really tried for decades to become a major player 438 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: here in the US with mixed results. I think you 439 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: know they're totally clear, are clearly are but there you know, 440 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: they have a scale down strategy now for the investment banks, 441 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: they're not offering a broader a sweet of products or 442 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: some of the competitors. They're much more focused, especially in 443 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: the US. But you know, the America's still a count 444 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: for about a third of their investment banking revenue and 445 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: there are pockets of business where you know, being big 446 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: on Wall Street is absolutely essential. As you take UM I, 447 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: p O s and spacks last year, you know, I 448 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: p O underwriting revenue was was the biggest among old 449 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: regions Deutsche Bank covers, So there are pockets of business 450 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: we absolutely have to be in the US and have 451 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: to be big. Very briefly, Eliza, how are the banks 452 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: in London contending with Briggs and these days? Well, we've 453 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: had you know, the most significant shift we've had so 454 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: far has been the one in show trading. You've seen 455 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: European shares now being almost exclusively traded on the continent, 456 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: so away from London. That is a big shift for London. 457 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: But we know we're going to be learning more as 458 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: the week's progressed, as we see more activity going to 459 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: the market. Yeah. Absolutely, and Elsa is all over it always. 460 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: Eliza Martin Utti is a Boomberg opinion columnist covering finance, 461 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: and her latest is Deutsche Banks Trump links will prove sticky. Obviously, 462 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: Deutsche said that it wants to pull back and won't 463 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: do any further business with Donald Trump, but of course 464 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: it does already have business in the work. Thanks for 465 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: listening to the Boomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and 466 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever a podcast 467 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on Twitter at 468 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: Bonnie Quinn. And I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at 469 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us 470 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: worldwide at Bloomberg Radio