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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fitness Disrupted, a production of I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fitness Disrupted. I am Tom Holland there are

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Speaker 1: too four letter words in exercise and getting in shape

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Speaker 1: and nutrition to four letter words in my opinion, that

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Speaker 1: prevents us from being in the best shape we could make.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to exercise, four letter word is bulk.

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Speaker 1: Shows about that, listen to those shows. The fear of

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Speaker 1: bulk one of the main things that prevents so many people,

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Speaker 1: especially women, from achieving their best bodies. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to nutrition, that four letter word is diet. Diet been

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Speaker 1: around since the beginning of time, people dieting, people going

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Speaker 1: on crazy diets that again have have just been around

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Speaker 1: and and keep coming back and short term fix And

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Speaker 1: that's what today shows about. And I have the greatest

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Speaker 1: guest who is one of my idols in this industry,

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Speaker 1: and I'll talk about that. So there's actually a two

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Speaker 1: a twofold kind of theme to the show. First and

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Speaker 1: foremost we're talking about diet cults, diets, and Matt Fitzgerald,

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Speaker 1: my guest, has written so many books. You should read

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Speaker 1: them all. I don't care what your goals are, you

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Speaker 1: will get something out of all of them exercise, sports, performance,

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Speaker 1: mental side. But the book I want to talk about today,

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Speaker 1: Diet Cults, just one of the greatest titles. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it right now. Got a hardcover version, I downloaded

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Speaker 1: the audio version. I've taken notes. He is just he's

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Speaker 1: amazing and you will hear that shortly. But diets, it

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Speaker 1: just it drives me nuts because what I had to do.

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Speaker 1: They all work short term, they all work, They all

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Speaker 1: restrict calories. The studies are strong. Listen to my other

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Speaker 1: shows where we talk about that. There are studies the

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Speaker 1: macro nutrient ratio, and we'll talk about that with Matt.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't matter, doesn't matter high fat, low fat. At the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, you want to lose weight, comes

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Speaker 1: down to calories in, calories out. I know many people

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Speaker 1: tell you otherwise because that sells books. And Matt is

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Speaker 1: going to clarify Unlike anyone. I know what diets are

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Speaker 1: about and get excited because he takes this on in

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Speaker 1: a non biased way. That is the main difference. He's

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Speaker 1: a researcher, he's he's the guest that I search for because,

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Speaker 1: as just about all of my guests, he walks the walk,

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Speaker 1: he talks to talk he's an endurance athlete. He's a

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Speaker 1: ridiculously fast triathlete and runner. He studied this. He is

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal writer. I aspire to write as well as

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Speaker 1: he does. It won't happen. That's okay. He's awesome. He

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Speaker 1: brings so much to the table. And in my experience,

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Speaker 1: the people who have the most education know what they

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Speaker 1: don't know and they go in without a bias. It's

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Speaker 1: those quote unquote fitness wellness professionals gurus who have just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of information that are super dangerous and

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Speaker 1: they find the one way. And Matt will talk about

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Speaker 1: that the one true way all of these diets, one

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Speaker 1: true way. You know what we'll send up red flags

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Speaker 1: immediately or should is that there are so many one

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Speaker 1: true ways. It is a huge theme of Matt's book

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Speaker 1: right away. If you are someone who gets it, who

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Speaker 1: is truly unbiased, looking at the research, looking at at

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Speaker 1: this from a scientific way, you go, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: They there can't be this many one true ways, especially

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Speaker 1: when they contradict one another so incredibly so this show

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Speaker 1: could be ten hours not gonna be I like a

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Speaker 1: short and sweet You're gonna get the takeaways and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get them fast and furious. I need to hit

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Speaker 1: on a bunch of things with him. He is a

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Speaker 1: font of information, a wealth of knowledge, and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: be more excited twofold. So not only we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about die cults, but real quickly, you need mentors, right,

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Speaker 1: You need people to look up to if you want

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Speaker 1: to achieve something. So there have been three people in

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Speaker 1: my lifetime when I started my fitness career that I

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Speaker 1: respected beyond belief, that I looked up to whose careers

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Speaker 1: I wanted. And you know what I did. I studied them.

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Speaker 1: I did what they did. I listened to what they

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Speaker 1: said step by step, and ultimately I achieved that. And

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Speaker 1: Matt Fitzgerald is one of those guys followed did everything

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Speaker 1: he did that I could do to get the results

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Speaker 1: that he got. And that comes all the way down

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Speaker 1: to getting his book agent. So my first couple of

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Speaker 1: books had an agent, and over time I realized we

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Speaker 1: weren't the right fit, perfect fit, And so as I

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Speaker 1: studied Matt's career, I said, you know what, He's written

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Speaker 1: so many books. He's a phenomenal writer. Who is his agent?

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Speaker 1: And I sought her out and it took years, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't give up, and I now have his agent,

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Speaker 1: all right, so so excited to speak with him again,

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Speaker 1: one of three people in my career that I have

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Speaker 1: just looked up to so highly respect. When he comes

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Speaker 1: out with a book, I read it, immediately, sit back

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Speaker 1: and get excited and I get it. Listen tough, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what this show is about. I get you've been

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Speaker 1: fed so much bad information. That's exactly what this show

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Speaker 1: is about. So it's not a negative. I know just

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Speaker 1: about every single one of you listening has probably tried

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Speaker 1: a diet or seven or seventeen over the years. But

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Speaker 1: what Matt is going to do is break it down

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Speaker 1: into why it's such a cool take on this. I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, get excited what they're all about. Why we

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Speaker 1: do that? Okay, I want to give it away, but

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about this science and I'm gonna pick

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Speaker 1: like five or six of the top ones that are

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Speaker 1: out there, and I'm gonna have him, in a very concise,

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Speaker 1: quick scientific way, tell you why they are what they are,

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Speaker 1: all right, and then the takeaway is what do you do?

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Speaker 1: And he's gonna tell you, and I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: you with him because we're on the same page with that.

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Speaker 1: So get excited, diet cults. We're gonna talk all about diets.

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Speaker 1: What are you trying now? What do you want? Is

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Speaker 1: a paleo? Is a keto? Is it adkins? Is it

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Speaker 1: plant based? Is it intermittent fasting? Is it gluten free?

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Speaker 1: What is your one true way that you have been

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Speaker 1: told sold? And what drives me crazy is that you

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Speaker 1: followed plans that have an end date and that you

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Speaker 1: follow and our successful short term but long term? What

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Speaker 1: are the ramifications? Most diets are gonna gain back more

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Speaker 1: than you lost? And what did you do to your

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Speaker 1: body in the meantime just because the scale moved, which

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Speaker 1: it will water, weight less calories, fewer calories, But what

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Speaker 1: are you doing to your body? What are you doing

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Speaker 1: to your health? It is not just about weight. It

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Speaker 1: is so much more than not just about weight. As

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Speaker 1: another huge focus of the show, the scale does not

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Speaker 1: determine the success or failure of your exercise and nutrition program. People.

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Speaker 1: That's what the weight loss industry has sold you, That's

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Speaker 1: what the fitness equipment industry has sold you, and that

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Speaker 1: is over. That's the disruption and fitness. It's not the equipment.

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Speaker 1: It's not the technology, it's the message. And you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get the straight message here, all right, enough of me.

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Speaker 1: Could not be more excited when we come back from

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Speaker 1: this break. Matt Fitzgerald just one of the most prolific, smart,

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Speaker 1: intelligent you pick the adjective writers, fitness people. You have

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Speaker 1: read his stuff without knowing it if you don't know it.

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Speaker 1: He's written for everybody, so many books, and he still competes.

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Speaker 1: He knows what it feels like. That is so important

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Speaker 1: when it comes to finding like someone who's really going

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Speaker 1: to help you change, change my life, change my life,

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Speaker 1: help me set my career path. And I'm gonna thank

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Speaker 1: him for that personally. So the first time I've ever

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Speaker 1: gotten to speak with him. So I could not be

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Speaker 1: more excited enough enough when you come back from this

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Speaker 1: quick break, we're gonna speak with Matt Fitzgerald and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about diet cults. We'll be right back, uh

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Speaker 1: and we are back. Could not be more excited again.

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Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier before the break, this is

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Speaker 1: someone who's out of three people in my lifetime I

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Speaker 1: have modeled my career, studied, watched and just said, hey,

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Speaker 1: if I want results, uh, and those are the role

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Speaker 1: results I want. I'm gonna do what that person did,

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Speaker 1: and that's Matt Fitzgerald. And and uh, you know kind

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Speaker 1: of been stalking him for years and then doing what

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Speaker 1: he's done. But for good reason. I would say, Uh,

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Speaker 1: he is just someone who has uh condensed nutrition and

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Speaker 1: exercise down as I was saying earlier, not a biased way.

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Speaker 1: And that is so important when it comes to nutrition especially.

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Speaker 1: So let me give you his quick bio. Matt Fitzgerald

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Speaker 1: is an endurance sports author, coach, and nutritionist. He's got

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Speaker 1: many books, I mean many, but including Life is a Marathon,

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Speaker 1: diet cults which we'll talk about, and how bad do

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Speaker 1: you want it. Matt's writing has also appeared in numerous

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Speaker 1: magazines you have read his stuff, uh, including Outside and

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Speaker 1: Runners World. He's on websites such as competitor dot com

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Speaker 1: and Vice dot com. He is also the co founder

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Speaker 1: and co head coach of eight twenty and Durance dot com.

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Speaker 1: And he's the creator of the Diet Quality Score smartphone apps.

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Speaker 1: So it's done a lot. And this is what I

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Speaker 1: was saying earlier as well. Not only that, right, He's

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Speaker 1: not just the Ivory Tower person the writer. He's actually

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Speaker 1: out doing it, and I'm excited to talk to him

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Speaker 1: about that. He's a lifelong endurance athlete. He does marathons

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Speaker 1: and triathlons and and he speaks frequently at events throughout

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Speaker 1: the United States and internationally. Matt, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for taking the time. It's great to be with you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I saying it, just we talked real

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Speaker 1: quickly before we went live. I could do ten hours

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Speaker 1: with you. Uh. You know, you have so many books,

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Speaker 1: so much stuff you're doing. But I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: today's world, diet cults and diets, so many people following that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure, just did you get a lot of flak?

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Speaker 1: I should just start there. And I love the cover.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at it right now. It is one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest covers. I say, who came up with that concept?

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Speaker 1: Funny story there. You know, authors, as you probably know,

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Speaker 1: they get very little input typically into covers. And I

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Speaker 1: am not actually an artistic person in general, so you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you wouldn't want me to come up with a cover.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they came up with that one, and I

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Speaker 1: loved it, um and everyone. I showed it too before

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Speaker 1: publication loved it, and then they showed it to the publisher,

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Speaker 1: showed it to UM, the booksellers, the retailers, and they

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Speaker 1: gave it a thumbs down. And I guess a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't know this. Actually retailers get to weigh

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Speaker 1: in on covers, and so that freaked out the publisher

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Speaker 1: and they thought, well, I guess it's too controversial or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. So they came up

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Speaker 1: with a different cover that was just terrible. UM, and

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Speaker 1: I I fought hard, I really loveied hard um to

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Speaker 1: get them to stay with the original cover. So UM.

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Speaker 1: They actually, to their credit, they they went with the

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Speaker 1: original despite what the retailers were saying. Oh, thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: because everyone loves it. That that that alone, the interview

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Speaker 1: was now complete because I'm in the process of yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I love You've done so many books. It's I

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Speaker 1: can't believe that you're still fighting those fights, right, but

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Speaker 1: that people have no idea. You google it everyone. It's

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Speaker 1: diet cult and it's a picture of a piece of

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Speaker 1: toast with with an interesting look and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of cut out, you know, it's got a face. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and it just works, It resonates, it grabs you right away. So,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it does not surprise me that the

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Speaker 1: salespeople said thumbs down, right, they want the typical, you

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Speaker 1: know cover, and this is not a typical book, and

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Speaker 1: that's what I love. All right? Did you get and

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Speaker 1: it sells? Like, oh my gosh, did they not look

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Speaker 1: at your track record? I mean, go with the person

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Speaker 1: who knows? Did you get a lot of I mean

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Speaker 1: just the title itself probably annoyed a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Did you get those kind of emails? I'm sure you did?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it was it was deliberately provocative. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I try to back it up. It wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't reckless or cavalier. You know, I had a

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Speaker 1: specific meaning in mind for you know, I did not.

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Speaker 1: I did not use that cover just to sell books.

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Speaker 1: I believe that there is such thing as diet cults.

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Speaker 1: And you know, and even if you don't go with

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Speaker 1: a provocative title and you pressed an opinion on how

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Speaker 1: folks should eat, you're going to get pushed back. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just there's um, it's a controversial and acrimonious

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Speaker 1: area of public discourse these days, so you bet, you know,

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Speaker 1: not everyone's a fan of diet cults. But I love

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Speaker 1: I love that we worry, you worry right that the

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Speaker 1: people who advocate the diets couldn't care less right about

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Speaker 1: they want that fight. And it's not like you called

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Speaker 1: out one. You called them out in the entirety, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's totally different. I love that. And you know,

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Speaker 1: so I take copious notes you. Your books are like

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Speaker 1: you know, scribbled in and dog geared. And the one

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Speaker 1: thing I jumped out of me right away is your

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Speaker 1: line and this is what as you just said, like

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Speaker 1: you were just and I started off by saying that too.

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Speaker 1: That what I love about you in my opinion and experiences,

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Speaker 1: you go in with the non biased way you just

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Speaker 1: you're looking at the science. There's very few people in

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Speaker 1: our industry who do that, truly. And then let the

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Speaker 1: you know, the reader decide and we'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: at the very end. The kind of your takeaway. But

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Speaker 1: the line you have about how the appeal of diets

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Speaker 1: is that they offer a food based identity to latch

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Speaker 1: on to explain that to people, that is like mind

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Speaker 1: blowing to most. Yeah, I mean if you go back

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Speaker 1: and there's you know, there's a lot of history in

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Speaker 1: diet cult so you know, I sort of go back

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Speaker 1: in time. I didn't I'm not a historian, but I

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Speaker 1: put on my historian hat, you know, for the purpose

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Speaker 1: of research in this book. And you know, cultures throughout

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Speaker 1: recorded history have had rules about diets, and of course,

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Speaker 1: in the ages before science, the rationale for being allowed

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Speaker 1: to eat this and not being allowed to eat that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they weren't. They weren't based on you know,

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Speaker 1: health concerns. It was just about you know, I give

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Speaker 1: the example of the kosher eating standards for in ancient Israel,

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Speaker 1: for the for the Jews, and that was all about

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Speaker 1: just distinguishing a peep from the people around them, and

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Speaker 1: that was important every culture does. I mean, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: more important than food for for cultural identity. And so

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Speaker 1: people have a tendency to assume that nowadays, that it's

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Speaker 1: all about science and health. But honestly, if you take

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Speaker 1: a closer look, not all that much has changed, and

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Speaker 1: we're still we ascribe scientific and health related reasons for

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Speaker 1: choosing to eat this way versus that, but so much

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Speaker 1: of it is still about cultural and even now nowadays

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Speaker 1: personal identity. You know, you align yourself with a faction

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Speaker 1: by you know, submitting to the rules of a certain diet.

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Speaker 1: I love that, and I love you know so typical

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Speaker 1: Matt is downplaying. What I love about your books is

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Speaker 1: that you do go into the history. You do go

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Speaker 1: deep and and just deep enough to give like where

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Speaker 1: did this come from? As you're saying, and so that's

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Speaker 1: what is so powerful, as you're reading about all these

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Speaker 1: different ways of eating and where they came from it

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Speaker 1: and most people have absolutely no idea, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that goes without saying. So you do give the history,

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Speaker 1: and that's what I love. And then you know what

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Speaker 1: jumped out of me immediately after that, and I talked

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Speaker 1: about this real quickly at the intro, was the one

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Speaker 1: true way. Everyone's got the one true way. And if

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Speaker 1: they all have the one true way, Matt, how is

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Speaker 1: it that they're so poor opposite so many of them? Right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is sort of you know, my definition

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Speaker 1: of a diet called is a diet that is based

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Speaker 1: on the belief that there is only one best or

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Speaker 1: only one right way to eat. If the you know,

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Speaker 1: the top authority or guru representing the diet that you

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Speaker 1: follow is making that claim no matter what the specifics

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Speaker 1: of the diet are. It's a diet cault in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: because if you it's hard to be unbiased when you

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Speaker 1: when you look at food and nutritions, but if you

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Speaker 1: try really hard to put aside any and all biases

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Speaker 1: and you do sort of go to to the science,

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Speaker 1: that is what the most objective people are saying is

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Speaker 1: that there is no single best way to eat. That

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Speaker 1: there are certainly rules you can't get away with breaking.

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Speaker 1: You know, an all cake diet isn't gonna work out

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Speaker 1: very well for you. But the human human metabolism, human

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Speaker 1: physiology is extremely adaptable. We are nature's ultimate omnivores. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of room within the rules you can't

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Speaker 1: get away with breaking to eat in a variety of

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Speaker 1: ways that will get you pretty much, you know, equal results.

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Speaker 1: And that's why people who follow some people who follow

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Speaker 1: vegan diet versus others who follow a low carb diet

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Speaker 1: that does not evolve vegan both can get good results,

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Speaker 1: and so they feel like they've validated the claims that

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Speaker 1: it's the only right way to eat. The trouble is

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Speaker 1: both have gotten good results, right, So so it invalidates

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Speaker 1: the claim, right and equals one right, all these oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, it worked from my friend and and you

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Speaker 1: know I had Dr Brad Shawn fell down. You know

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people and we've talked about you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the studies, all dice work short term, right,

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Speaker 1: just about all of them, right, because it is cowork restriction.

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Speaker 1: And you know there are the studies that the macro

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Speaker 1: nutrient ratio matters. Not what matters is the cowards when

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Speaker 1: we're talking weight loss, but like you're talking about and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for its health. So it's not just about

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Speaker 1: weight loss that will happen regardless, right, but we're talking

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Speaker 1: about health. Yeah, if I have a bias, it's that

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Speaker 1: you know, I am an endurance sports guy, and when

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Speaker 1: you read the book you can sort of see that

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Speaker 1: that you know that the angle I approached diet from.

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Speaker 1: But I like using elite and dernance athletes. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of a model for the agnostic healthy eating approach um

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Speaker 1: that I sort of put forward as a stay an

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Speaker 1: alternative to the diet cults because you know, elite and

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Speaker 1: dernance athletes they don't care what works. They just want

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Speaker 1: what works. You know what I mean, to these people,

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Speaker 1: their livelihood depends on their fitness, and fitness is just

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Speaker 1: an extension of health. So you know, they truly don't care,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're so motivated no matter how hard it

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Speaker 1: might be to eat quote unquote perfectly, they would be

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Speaker 1: willing to do it. And it turns out it's actually

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Speaker 1: not all that harsh. Right. But you know, if you

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Speaker 1: if you don't put any unnecessary restrictions on the way

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Speaker 1: you eat, you can eat in a way that looks

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Speaker 1: pretty darn normal but just has you know, pretty high

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Speaker 1: standards for overall quality. I'm so glad you went there.

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Speaker 1: I was going to go there. But this is one

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Speaker 1: of the things about you that I have admired and

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Speaker 1: just regurgitated and repeated because what Matt is saying. So

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Speaker 1: I'm an endurance guy. To Matt's faster, much faster. But

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Speaker 1: I read this. I don't know what it was, probably

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Speaker 1: an article a book of yours many years ago, and

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Speaker 1: what he's saying is endurance athletes. So I study them.

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Speaker 1: Matt studies them because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: if they don't win, they don't eat, right that there's

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Speaker 1: no food on the table. They don't make a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. So what Matt's saying is, if you want

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Speaker 1: to study what works, study the people who have to

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Speaker 1: do it. And as Matt just said, not because of

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Speaker 1: they're they're ascribing to any They don't care. They need

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Speaker 1: to win, right, and they need to fuel themselves with

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Speaker 1: what we'll get them to the finish line first, and

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Speaker 1: they will do whatever it takes. So let's let's start there,

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Speaker 1: Matt and go to the big because I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: low the high fat now with endurance athletes, because that

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Speaker 1: will kind of roll into what we're talking about too.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that as far as performance? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, um, you know, the it's not looking great right,

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Speaker 1: the high fat thing or low cart thing. It's been

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Speaker 1: around in different iterations for a while and it's um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you some athletes can kind of get away

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Speaker 1: with it, and that's why I think it won't go away.

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Speaker 1: But you see very little penetration of the high fat

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Speaker 1: thing at the true elite levels because you know the

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Speaker 1: SoC idea that you know the pros and this is

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Speaker 1: what you know. The high fat advocates will say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know the pros, they're so high bound, they're stuck

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Speaker 1: in their ways. They don't want to take risks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: nothing could be further from the true. Like they're the one,

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Speaker 1: they're the innovators, like, but they're not just gonna They're

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Speaker 1: not going to try just anything. You know that they

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Speaker 1: can only afford to risk smart innovations, innovations that seem

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Speaker 1: like they're going to be likely to pay off. And

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Speaker 1: that's why you just don't see them jumping on the

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Speaker 1: high fat bandwagon. And then if you just go to

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Speaker 1: you know, the science, you know, what the science is

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Speaker 1: showing is that at best, if you switch to a

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Speaker 1: high fat diet after a very long and painful adjustment process,

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Speaker 1: if you might end up you might end up where

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Speaker 1: you started right, But there's some definite negatives, like you

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Speaker 1: tend to lose your your highest gear as it because

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Speaker 1: you know, if you have a high fat diet, you

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Speaker 1: become dependent on fat fat, you know, just a a

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Speaker 1: less efficient fuel source. So when you're really pushing higher

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Speaker 1: speeds you don't have anything to fuel it. You really

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Speaker 1: need to be good at burning carves to be able

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Speaker 1: to pin the needle as it were. I love that,

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Speaker 1: and what I've said you know, because I get in

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Speaker 1: this argument with the typical endurance athlete. You're talking about

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Speaker 1: the debate and what I finally got too mad as

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Speaker 1: I say, you know what, especially people in my age group,

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Speaker 1: if I'm competing against them, do your go for it?

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Speaker 1: Go for be low fat. That's gonna make my job

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Speaker 1: a lot easier can beating against you, right or high fat?

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Speaker 1: I should say, right, yes. I sent out a tweet

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Speaker 1: recently to that effect. I said, you know, as a coach,

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Speaker 1: I wish everyone would eat the way the elites do.

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Speaker 1: As an athlete myself, I say, go for the high

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Speaker 1: fat exactly. I'm gonna have to work that much less

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Speaker 1: right to us. It's crazy. And I don't want to

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Speaker 1: name him, but you know, and there's a well known

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Speaker 1: iron man guy who won a bunch of Hawaiian and

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Speaker 1: so people often say, and he's advocating this now and

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Speaker 1: h so I the guy say to me, well, he

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Speaker 1: says you should do this, and I said, he didn't

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Speaker 1: do that when he won. And and the response from

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Speaker 1: this guy was, well he wishes he did not Go No,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't doesn't, right, I mean, come on, that's not

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Speaker 1: the science. Yeah, you see those sort of Uh, those

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Speaker 1: deathbed conversions that some people have. I hope I don't

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Speaker 1: get to this point when I'm you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's again not to name there, it's it

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Speaker 1: is a phenomenon with you know, maybe it's it's um,

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Speaker 1: you know, older athletes are authority is who feel like

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Speaker 1: maybe they're losing their relevant I think I'll latch on

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Speaker 1: to a trend. Just it's a little sad, actually, you

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Speaker 1: know what, You're absolutely right. I never thought of it

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Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, you're out of the spotlight, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: how do you how do you stay in it? Right? Um,

426
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: there's gotta be some truth to that, because again, it's

427
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: just the science doesn't hold to and they didn't get

428
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: they didn't get the result by doing what they're advocating now,

429
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: nor are their clients. But they're working from such a

430
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: different level that it's it confuses the issue. Right. So

431
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I love it. Okay, my gosh,

432
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: we we we could get into so much. So since

433
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: we went there, let's just again, you you can't do

434
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: this in a really short amount of time. But I

435
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: just want to go through like four or five matt

436
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: of the top diets out there and just like give

437
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: your thirty second pitch to like what your take on

438
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: it is, you know, from the book and all that

439
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and let's just start with Paleo. So

440
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: what's your take on Paleo? Yeah, certainly, you know the

441
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: idea that we've sort of lost our way with diet,

442
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, do do you know the ways we were

443
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: able to manipulate food in modern times? That is a

444
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: very sound and that's the spirit that's behind Paleo, But

445
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: they sort of take it way too far, you know.

446
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: The the actual specific premise of the Paleo diet is

447
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: based on an idea of how evolution works and how

448
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: jeans work that is sort of like from the nineteen eighties. Yeah. Yeah.

449
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: The idea is that like if we weren't eating something

450
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: ten tho years ago, it's got to be toxic to

451
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: eat it now. And that's simply not the case again,

452
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: because this is what humans have always been doing. Like

453
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: we started off eating pretty much just you know, fruit

454
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 1: and ants in trees, you know, before we were actually

455
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: Homo sapiens, and we became what we are by constantly

456
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: expanding our diet. So we can handle that. It's okay

457
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: to eat things that we haven't always been eating, but

458
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: you know it is it's a good sound principle to

459
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: keep your diet pretty darn natural to go ahead and

460
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, eat foods that, you know, like dairy, that

461
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: we weren't eating necessarily two years ago, but try to

462
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: avoid processed food as much as you can. So that's

463
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: what's amazing to me, Matt, about just about all these diets,

464
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: and we'll go through them again the major ones, because

465
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: I want your take on all of those top ones.

466
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 1: Is it goes back to whole foods for the most part.

467
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: So so many people just clean up what they're eating,

468
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: and as you said, they're going to get better results

469
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: just by changing their dietary habits. And that's part of

470
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: the problem, right exactly. Yeah, So let's go So we

471
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: did paleo, let's go to keto. I mean, oh my gosh,

472
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: this could not be more popular. It's basically akins on steroids, right,

473
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, just taking that to a different level. Yeah,

474
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's just, um, I don't get it.

475
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: You know, if it's sort of like fighting with one

476
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: arm tied behind your back, you know, could you possibly

477
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: still win the fight? Yeah, I guess, but like why uh,

478
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: I love that. You know, you know, if you're if

479
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: you're super careful, you know, you can make a very

480
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: very low carbohydrate diet work for you if weight loss

481
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: is your main concern, and maybe you're going to do

482
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: that as like a short term phase and then transition

483
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: into something more sustainable. Okay, sure, but you know, I

484
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: certainly every effort to talk an endurance athlete at its

485
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: going down that road. And you know, I just think

486
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: from my perspective, you probably shouldn't make any dietary changes

487
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: that you can't see yourself continuing with ten years from now,

488
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: because that's how it works. And Keto, the problem with

489
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: it and a lot of the other really really strict

490
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: diets is that it's just not sustainable and that there's

491
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: just a great takeaway, and I hope people get that.

492
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: You know, I don't do anything that I can't do

493
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, and that that makes

494
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: it so much easier, and that's what drives me nuts.

495
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: And that's again why I love We're talking about the

496
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: book Diet Cult by Matt Fitzgerald. You need to read it.

497
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: I don't care who you are, just to put into

498
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: context why we do what we do, and and just

499
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 1: the history of eating and and all of that kind

500
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: of stuff. But you know, food is not the enemy.

501
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: And you know what I say to people too, man,

502
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: is don't tell me what you're not eating. Tell me

503
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: what you're eating, right, stop focusing on what you can't have,

504
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: and and tell me about the healthy foods you are eating. Like,

505
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: focus on the positive. I'm that Pollyanna person, but let's

506
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: focus on that, right And as you said, something you're

507
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: gonna do for the rest of your life. And I

508
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: know people are saying, well, I'm not an indurance athlete,

509
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: but it is the greatest subset again because listen, you

510
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: need to fuel your body for your day, for your mind,

511
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. And so Keto, we don't even

512
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: need to go to Atkins, because it's just another version

513
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: of Atkins, right, I mean, just worse, which is crazy.

514
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: As you said, at this point, I think that these

515
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: things are always going to be around there. Just the

516
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: names will change, some of the details will change, right there,

517
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: They're always going to be with us. That's too bad, Yeah,

518
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: I know, And it's you know, it's as you said,

519
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: I feel like we're fighting with that one hand behind

520
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 1: our back because you're trying to give people the science.

521
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: But what you know, what they hear is just is

522
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: louder and the people yelling you know whatever. Um, but

523
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: let's get into h plant based. So obviously there's there's

524
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: value to plant based, right, but give the quick pitch

525
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, I mean, yes, that's true. And plant

526
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: based diets are restrictive diets that can work out really

527
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: well and do for a lot of people. What I

528
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: see you know again, I am, you know, a coach

529
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: and a nutritionist serving and an athlete client base. What

530
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: I do see with a lot of endurance athletes who

531
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: who go plant based is that they do get into

532
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: trouble because it just it gives them a lot less

533
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: margin for error because they are taking animal animal foods

534
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: have different nutrient profiles, um than any plant foods do.

535
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: So if you remove those from the diet, uh, just

536
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: by definition, your diet becomes less well rounded. Um. So

537
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: I see a lot of athletes on plant based diets

538
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: develop iron deficiency, anemia, They get stress fractures and their

539
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: bones and and other sort of a kind of weird

540
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: problems like symptoms of overtraining syndrome. So it's risky. And

541
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: I've seen athletes who who think they're they're they're knowledgeable,

542
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: that they feel like they know what they're doing, they're careful,

543
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: and they still get into trouble sometimes, not that they

544
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: all do, but it's just if someone wants to do

545
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: that for ethical reasons or whatever, you know, I get it.

546
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: But you know, if I if I'm just trying to

547
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: serve an athlete's interests in terms of performance, I would

548
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: never steer them to a plant based diet, maybe a

549
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: flexitarian diet, whether it's a lot of meat and fish

550
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: in it, but I would not just you know, that's

551
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not putting anyone on that diet. I

552
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: love that that that summarize it perfectly. And you know, people,

553
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: if you want to read something else, read the Blue

554
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: Zones or something like that, where a little bit of

555
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: meat is people are living past a hundred years old,

556
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, the centenarians and things like that. So excessive

557
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: moderation is what I talk about frequently. And you know,

558
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: don't do a lot of anything, do a little bit

559
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: of everything a lot And as Matt saying, if you

560
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: really want to perform, can you get away with it? Sure,

561
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: I love what you hit on. We'll finish with that

562
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: as the ethical side, because that's that's the messages that

563
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: are getting mixed. I would argue, especially in the Netflix

564
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: documentary world of today, where people are getting there their

565
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: nutritional science from supposedly well, let's get into two more

566
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: intermittent fasting. I love this one. Yeah, it's just, you know,

567
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: let's make it more complicated. You see, you see so

568
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: many people do this, you know, like why you know,

569
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: Like again, it's one of those things where through intermittent

570
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: fasting after adjustment period, you might end up getting about

571
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: the same results that you would have gotten with a

572
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: much simpler approach, you know, whether it's just portion size

573
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: reduction or boosting you know, the quality of your diet

574
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: or eliminating you know, certain process foods, whatever. You know.

575
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: I think some people just, you know, if something is

576
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: just smacks of novelty or seems scientific, that there's almost

577
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: there's almost an attraction to the complexity of the overcomplex

578
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: acts of these diets. It's like, oh man, it's so complicated,

579
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: it's got to work. But I just you know, I

580
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: just don't. I'm a pragmatist, so I just I want

581
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: what works. And it's sort of, you know, a version

582
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: of pragmatic version of Okamas Razor. Like, yes, it's three

583
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: things work. I'll do the simplest of the three. Thanks

584
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: you one of the comments. I know, listen, I encourage

585
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: you to leave comments about the show. But what I

586
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: love it's titled that we just started the show. I

587
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: just started the show about six weeks ago, I think,

588
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: And it's captain obvious. It's like Tom, yes, because I

589
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: guess what the captain obvious things work. I could be

590
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: really complicated you and I could impress people. You know,

591
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time and a lot of money,

592
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, researching and get ourselves educated. But that's not

593
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: the goal is to sound really smart and talk about

594
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: v O two Max and all that kind of stuff, right,

595
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: unless that's your goal. And but I love that I

596
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: talk about Acamas Razor all the time. And what I

597
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 1: love Matt two is the people who say, well, I'm

598
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: doing intermittent fast thing. They'll say, I don't eat from

599
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: eight pm until noon, and I go, that's not fasting.

600
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: That's called skipping breakfast. Right, Let's be honest and stop

601
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: torturing yourself, all right. The final one then luten free.

602
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: Holy cow, Yeah, is that is that still around? I'm not, yeah,

603
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: not as much, right, not as many celebrities doing it.

604
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean gluten is not the the evil

605
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: thing that people think it is, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean,

606
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think there is something to maybe you

607
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: know that you know, we've we've manipulated wheat in ways

608
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: that have increased the gluten content, and you know that

609
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: you know that might affect some people. But there's a

610
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: really great essay that was done by a sociologist a

611
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: few years ago that that um I might have referenced

612
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: diet called It's called I Can't Eat This, and it's

613
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: about the sociology of food allergies and pseudo allergies, and

614
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: he talks about how it's so weird that these things

615
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 1: only exist in America and certainly yes, in countries and um,

616
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, he just talks about, you know, the history

617
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: of how people have actually used, um, they've refused to

618
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: eat things that they actually could eat as a sign

619
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: of status and and that's a big part of what's

620
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: going on. But not just with the thing, but with

621
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: other allergies or sensitivities. It's just it's a sign of

622
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: wealth that you can afford to refuse certain foods, you

623
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean, if you're poor and struggling, you're

624
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: just gonna eat whatever you get your hands on. So

625
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: this actually is another one of those things that goes

626
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: way back and taken on a modern form. It has

627
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 1: been dressed up in science. Not to say that there

628
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: are certain there are there are people who can't be

629
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: of course, um, but it's become the number of people

630
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: who choose not to is you know, far more vast

631
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: than than the number who actually can't. And what people

632
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: they'll realize is that that very small percentage that actually

633
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: can't now has to pay more for their gluten free food,

634
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: right thanks to the the people taking on that diet

635
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: and driving the cost up. Right. So I mean incredible,

636
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: you know, unintended consequences. And I love that. And you

637
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: just annoyed a lot of people, right, But that's the truth.

638
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: It's the truth. It's when food is so plentiful we

639
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: can afford literally to not eat it and to kind

640
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 1: of find these things and ascribe certain qualities to them

641
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: that that may or may not exist for for so

642
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: many people. I love it, all right. We annoyed a

643
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, I think, but that's you know what,

644
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: that's it. That's why I say disruption, Matt, you know,

645
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: the disruption of fitness. It's not the gear, which I

646
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: love and you love, I know, and the technology the equipment.

647
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: It's the message that people have to get what you

648
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: just said right, and you go through them really quickly.

649
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: When you talked about you know, uh, eating less processed

650
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: foods and stuff like that, but that's the stuff that

651
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: works long term. People just want that crazy side to it.

652
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: And that's what's so amazing about your book is you

653
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: talk about that how it's it's more mental thing than

654
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: a physical thing. And there's so many different aspects to that,

655
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: the sociological and everything you just talked about. I almost

656
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: majored in sociology in college, and I guess I just

657
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: can't let that perspective go. So the physical stuff matters,

658
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: but it's just it's even with diet, nutrition, and the

659
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: physical side is only half of what's really going on.

660
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: And let's bring it all home. So what I love

661
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: is you have a term in the book, so people go, Okay,

662
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: let's let to assume you're right. Given all this history

663
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: and science, Now what do we do, and you call

664
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: it agnostic eating, and and explain to people what that is.

665
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: Agnostic healthy eating is basically just identifying or recognizing the

666
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: rules that you actually truly can't get away with breaking,

667
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: like eating only one type of food or avoiding unprocessed

668
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: foods and eating only processed foods, and just not restricting

669
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: your diet anymore than those parameters require. So it's just

670
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, there there's ten different categories of natural foods

671
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: that have been in the diet for a long time,

672
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: and identify those. We don't have to know. People know

673
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: what they are, fruits, vegetables, dairy, etcetera. And I suggest

674
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: that you eat all of them, but not necessarily in

675
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: the same proportions. I think the science says that you're

676
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: better off eating a lot more vegetables than dairy, for example. Uh,

677
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: not that they both can't and shouldn't be shouldn't be

678
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: in the diet. But yeah, so purport persons matter. Just so, yeah,

679
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: eat everything, eat unprocessed, and eat in a sensible balance

680
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: and then within and but that leaves a lot of

681
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: room for you to go with your preferences or your

682
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: cultural traditions, or how your body seems to react individually

683
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: to different ways of eating. So there's a lot of

684
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: space and there's no reason to artificially confine yourself to,

685
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, one little narrow spot within those parameters just

686
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: because someone tells you it's the one true way, and

687
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: so it puts a little responsibility on you. But that's

688
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: also that responsibility is also freedom because again, the idea

689
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: is not to be getting good results next week with

690
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: your diet. The ideas to be getting good results ten

691
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: years from now, twenty years from now. And I've never

692
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: met anyone who who is is healthy and has been

693
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: maintaining a healthy diet for a long time who isn't

694
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: happy with their diet. That matters, like not if you

695
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: if you're not happy with it, you're not going to

696
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: be doing it ten years from now. So yeah, the

697
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: giostic approach, I think it's just it's science base, but

698
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: it's also pragmatic and it's too me. I love it,

699
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: you know, I want to go on for another hour.

700
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: But that is such a perfect place to kind of

701
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: wrap it up. And so for people who maybe or

702
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: need more, right, So that's one cool thing many of

703
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: the many of diet cults is that Matt gives you

704
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: those ten things. So many of you want that kind

705
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: of um, you know, structure and a little bit of

706
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: a plan. So Matt gives that to you. So so

707
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: get the book, download the audio book, whichever way you

708
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: want to consume it. But it's it's it clarifies in

709
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: a way if you're like, okay, I need kind of

710
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: a step by step. Matt gives you that. So he

711
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: takes all the different food categories as he was talking about,

712
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, fruits, vegetables, dairy, and kind of says, okay,

713
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna take some from all, but here's the way

714
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: you might want to rank them. So it's a food ranking,

715
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: but it's not just said you're gonna figure it out

716
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: for yourself. And you know, Matt, I'm too I'm too

717
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: um my egos too big to follow any one diet

718
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: that someone tells me. I have to, So figure it

719
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: out for yourself, right, find that diet, you know, rupture

720
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: within those ten different foods ways of eating that works

721
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: for you, and that's kind of what you're what you're

722
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: getting to and that you enjoy and then you're gonna

723
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: do for a long time. Well said, yeah, you know,

724
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: we need we need so much more time. I want

725
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: to talk about the racing and stuff. What's coming up

726
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: next for you? As far you still, I know you.

727
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: What did you just do? Like a two? What did

728
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: you run a two? Five or something? Was your recent break? Yeah?

729
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: Yeah it was nine Chicago. Oh my god, congrats that hurts.

730
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: And what did you race? What was your racing way?

731
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: Because that don't make me feel better because I'm not

732
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: that light man. I got down, you know, because I

733
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: actually trained with a team of pros. I saw that

734
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: that's gonna that's gonna be another book, uh discussion for

735
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: another time. But boy, you know I got talented close

736
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: to my old high school rate. Uh in that environment. Um,

737
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: I got down to a hundreds when I'm six one,

738
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: So that's see, that's just not fair. You gotta start like,

739
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, two miles behind me should be weight based.

740
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: But there you go. And you know what, people again,

741
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have bat back on because I want to

742
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: talk to the performance side with him. But I just

743
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: wanted to start with the diets. But there's just alluding

744
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: to an upcoming show, you know when you talk Acam's razor.

745
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: When I got my VO two Max tested first at

746
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: a Delphi University. Matt, the major takeaway that dr Otto

747
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: said to me is stop lifting weights, lose and muscle,

748
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: get lighter, right, And that's one of the single greatest ways. Obviously,

749
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: gotta train and do all that other stuff too, but

750
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, again, simple stuff that works. All right. Thank

751
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: you so much, Matt. I mean, such a pleasure, such

752
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: an honor. It's been you know, many years that I've

753
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: followed you, and uh, this is kind of coming full circle.

754
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: So thank you for making this. And you know what,

755
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 1: people listen, you can be angry with what we said,

756
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: but this is a science and it should be hopeful,

757
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: and it should be If it's kind of making you uncomfortable,

758
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: it's probably right, right, So this if you're we could

759
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: tell you what you want to hear, right, Matt, that's easy.

760
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: We all know those trainers and coaches and nutritionists and

761
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: that's part of the problem. They're telling you what you

762
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: want to hear. But when you take the science and

763
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: you take the stuff that you can do long term,

764
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: that work. So Matt, thank you so much. Have a

765
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: great day, and uh I look forward to doing this

766
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: again hopefully. Alright, alright, have a great day, thanks Matt.

767
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did, Matt.

768
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: If I could swear, I would for Fitzgerald. Awesome, awesome

769
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: on so many levels. That's the first time I've spoken

770
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: with him in person. I've talked to my agent about him.

771
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: I've modeled my career, I've watched I've read everything he writes.

772
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: He's so smart and and the takeaways from that. I

773
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: hope you understand how valuable that interview was to your

774
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: health and wellness. No bias. His bias is the endurance athlete.

775
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: And you know what, here's what blows me away with fitness.

776
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: He constantly downplay I'm not a historian, and Matt Fitzgerald

777
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: is a historian. Incredible. So the people who actually have

778
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge, and I said this in the intro,

779
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: it's this is like one of the facts of life.

780
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: The more people know, the more you know, the more

781
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, you don't know. And that is one of

782
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: the biggest problems in fitness is these people. The one

783
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: true way, this is the only type of exercise you

784
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: should do. Should never use machines, You should never do

785
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: steady state cardio. No. And Matt Fitzgerald is so smart

786
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: nutrition and exercise and he just ran a two thirty

787
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: nine marathon. He's my age, I think, not young, and

788
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: he's gonna do a sixty more. He walks the walk,

789
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: he runs the run, he talks to the talk. These

790
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: are the guests I bring to you, and what you're

791
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: gonna find with all of my guests aptin obvious. I

792
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: love that comment because guess what it's is Accam's razor.

793
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm so happy he brought that up to We're gonna

794
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: keep giving you the science and the changes for a lifetime.

795
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: The restrictive diets. He puts it in a way unlike

796
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: anyone who talks about diet and nutrition. He just wants

797
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: you to get results. And he's saying, why would you

798
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: do something that you're gonna get pretty much the same

799
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: results by doing something unrestrictive, and you're gonna be able

800
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: to do it for a lifetime. You've heard that before,

801
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: but that's not what's being sold to you, these fad diets,

802
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: these short term fixes. If you can't do it, if

803
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: you can't see yourself doing it one year, five years,

804
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 1: ten years from now, why are you doing it? Because

805
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: you want to see that scale move. I get it.

806
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: The scale will move if you make smarter, smaller, consistent

807
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: changes over time, captain obvious. There you go, and I

808
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: enjoy that term, because you know what, my results speak

809
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: for themselves. My clients results speak for themselves. Matt Fitzgerald's results,

810
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: both himself and his clients speak for themselves. It's about

811
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: being healthy, and it's about doing it for a lifetime,

812
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: and that is great news. You don't have to starve yourself.

813
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: Focus on the foods you can eat, not the ones

814
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: you can't. Pick up diet cults. Because what we alluded

815
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: to at the end, touched on is the way he

816
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: ranks food. So I know many of you kind of

817
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: need a plan of sorts, and he gives it to

818
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: you because he gets that too. He's been around a

819
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: really long time for a reason, and he's had success

820
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: for a reason. So he ranks food quality essentially and says,

821
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: you know, pick more of these rather than these. You know,

822
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: talks about dairy and fruits and vegetables and meats and

823
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: process all that kind of stuff. So he gives you

824
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: a framework. He gives you knowledge or information I should say,

825
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: to work from. Most of it will be somewhat common sensical,

826
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: but you still need to see it, and some you'll go.

827
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: And I didn't really know that diet cults google the cover.

828
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: I love his story about the cover. It's a whole

829
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: another topic, and that's what I don't want to go there.

830
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: Uh So, Yes, Matt Fitzgerald just one of the smartest,

831
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: down to earth people who can help you live your

832
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: best life. I'm so excited to have spoken with him,

833
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: so excited to have this show for you. It is

834
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: yet another show to help you be the best you.

835
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: And you start to take everything you learn in these shows,

836
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: the strength training tips and the dietary tips. I promise you,

837
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: if you start to implement them slowly, you will see

838
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: amazing results, not right away, but for a lifetime. I

839
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: am living proof of that. Fifty years old, no injuries done,

840
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: an incredible number of races, and things like that. I

841
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: am not superman. I was the kid on the bench

842
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: with shin splints entire childhood. Wherever you're starting now, you

843
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: will be amazed at where you can be a year

844
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: from now. So make those small changes, keep listening to

845
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: the show, and I promise you you will achieve incredible things.

846
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: So I want to thank Matt Fitzgerald again. Such an

847
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Speaker 1: honor and a pleasure and oh my gosh, I could

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Speaker 1: and will have him back. I could talk to him

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Speaker 1: all day. I was going to say, thank you for listening,

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Speaker 1: and again, if you have time, please rate the show

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00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: at the very least rate it. Leave me comments, leave

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Speaker 1: me feedback, Tell me how much you enjoyed Matt, because

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00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: if you didn't, you got something wrong with you. That

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00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: was just invaluable information. I mean, know what you think

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00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: of the show. Be nice, but be honest, and I'm

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00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: constantly trying to improve myself for you improved the show,

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Speaker 1: but know this, it will be simply the best content

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Speaker 1: with science, not deep dark science. Right, I'm giving you

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00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: just enough. There's other shows if you want to go

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00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: super deep, but I want to give you actionable takeaway.

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Speaker 1: Here's what it's about. You know, he went through Paley

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00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: all the little different diets, gave you his quick but

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Speaker 1: that's all you need. So good again, thank you for listening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tom Holland, someone who wants to help you be

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Speaker 1: the best to you. That's the goal. The disruption of

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Speaker 1: fitness is information. It's helping you make those small changes

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Speaker 1: that aren't small and that will change your life forever.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tom Holland Believe in Yourself. Fitness Disrupted as a

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Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my

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Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.