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Speaker 4: Hi.

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Speaker 5: I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently

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Speaker 5: hit the number one science podcast in America. I mean

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Speaker 5: neuroscientists at Stanford and I've spent my career exploring the

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Speaker 5: three pound universe in our heads.

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Speaker 6: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

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Speaker 5: Between your brain and your life. Because the more we

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Speaker 5: know about what's running under the hood, that or we

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Speaker 5: can steer our lives. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David

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Speaker 5: Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

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Speaker 5: get your podcasts?

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Speaker 1: Hey, orgy, Where do you get all your energy from?

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Speaker 4: What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: Well? You know you do this podcast, We write books,

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Speaker 1: you run a TV show, You survive as a parent.

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Speaker 1: What power is all of that activity?

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Speaker 4: Fear? Maybe? Now mostly it's just bananas?

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Speaker 1: Is that it really just bananas? There's no other secret sauce.

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Speaker 4: You think I have like an arc reactor in my chest,

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Speaker 4: like Iron Man.

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Speaker 1: It does seem like a superhuman level of activity.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes you should be a Marvel character like Banana Man, Procrastaman. No,

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Speaker 4: I like Banana Ma. I'll contact Marvel. I'll tell him

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Speaker 4: it's very appealing.

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Speaker 1: All right, I hope they don't slip up.

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Speaker 4: I am poor had made cartoonist and to create of

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Speaker 4: PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at U see Irvine where we have a working nuclear reactor.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. Is this out of your garage or

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Speaker 4: like in your office or do you have an actual lab?

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Speaker 1: No, under the chemistry building there is a functioning nuclear

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Speaker 1: reactor which you can go and visit, and it like

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Speaker 1: glows blue and everything.

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Speaker 4: Is that a good idea to put it under like

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Speaker 4: a campus full of thousands of kids?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, but we weren't going to put

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Speaker 1: it under the physics building. That's why it ended up

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Speaker 1: under the chemistry building.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I see the chemistry before more expendable.

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I'm just happy to not have

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Speaker 1: it in my building.

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Speaker 4: They they're just dnser and can absorb all of the

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Speaker 4: you know, particles that come out.

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Speaker 1: But it's pretty cool to visit and to like imagine

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Speaker 1: all those crazy particle things happening right down in there.

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Speaker 4: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 4: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we do get right down in there. We

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Speaker 1: talk about all of the crazy, amazing things that are

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Speaker 1: really happening out there in the universe. This chaotic buzz

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Speaker 1: of insanity which is reality, is the subject of the

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Speaker 1: podcast and the thing that we try to explain, and

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Speaker 1: we shy away from none of it, from the tiniest

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Speaker 1: little things to the hugest, vastest mysteries of the deepest cosmos.

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Speaker 1: We attack all of it and explain all of it

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 4: That's right, because the universe sort of doesn't sleep. There's

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Speaker 4: always something going on in the universe making energy, exploding,

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Speaker 4: crashing into each other, and it's amazing to think about

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Speaker 4: the idea that we could one day understand all of it.

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Speaker 1: That is a crazy idea. I've never heard before that

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Speaker 1: the universe might even sleep. You know, like imagine if

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Speaker 1: like all of physics went to bed at night and

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Speaker 1: just like stopped happening, took.

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Speaker 4: A nap, cosmic nap.

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Speaker 1: You're like, geese, universe, take a break for a minute,

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Speaker 1: let us catch up. We're still figuring things out.

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Speaker 4: And that's what's going on inside of black holes. It's

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Speaker 4: just you know where the universe goes to take a nap.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's just like at Google where they have

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Speaker 1: nap pods. This is where like particles can go to

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Speaker 1: take a break. Finally, like these photons been going for

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Speaker 1: billionions of years without stopping. Who take a load off?

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Speaker 4: You think the universe needsifocation or something. You think the

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Speaker 4: universe is tired. It seems to be pretty active and

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Speaker 4: picking up on energy with its expansion.

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Speaker 1: That's true. The universe does seem relentless.

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Speaker 4: And so there's a lot going on in the universe,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes we wonder how does all this energy go

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Speaker 4: out into the universe.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because all the stuff around us contains an

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Speaker 1: incredible amount of energy. All the matter around you are

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Speaker 1: these tiny little systems bound together with incredibly strong forces, which,

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Speaker 1: if manipulated in just the right way, can release them

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Speaker 1: in incredible bursts of energy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and somehow throughout the years, humans have figured out

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Speaker 4: how to sort of take advantage of this idea of

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Speaker 4: releasing the energy that's stored inside of the bonds of

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Speaker 4: the things that make up to the universe, and sometimes

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Speaker 4: for good reasons and sometimes for not so great reasons.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And you can see around you in the night sky,

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Speaker 1: for example, fusion reactions happening that last millions and billions

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Speaker 1: of years. At the heart of stars, of course, is

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Speaker 1: a kind of a nuclear reactor down here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: We don't see that as often, thankfully, but we've been

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Speaker 1: able to sort of engineer similar stuff happening so we

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Speaker 1: can take advantage of it and power our air conditioners.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, anytime that you hear a pop out in your

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Speaker 4: day life, it's probably some sort of chemical bond breaking

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Speaker 4: up and releasing energy out into the world.

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Speaker 1: Does that happen to you a lot? You just like

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Speaker 1: turn around and hear something pop?

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Speaker 4: Isn't that what happens every time you hear a car running.

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Speaker 1: I have an electric car now, so it's totally silent.

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Speaker 4: Oh interesting, now, you can sneak up on people.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why I got it. I can sneak up

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Speaker 1: on them and like steal a lick of their ice

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Speaker 1: cream cone or don't there.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, that is a little disturbing. You're like

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Speaker 4: the ice cream bandit, the electric ice cream Bandit.

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Speaker 1: I've never actually done that, but now every time I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get in my car, I'm going to think

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Speaker 1: about maybe doing that.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's sort of an interesting idea to think

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Speaker 4: about the humans sort of harnessing this power of this

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Speaker 4: ability to kind of release the energy inside of every

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Speaker 4: day matter, right. I guess we started it with fire.

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Speaker 4: Fire maybe was the first sort of maybe you know,

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Speaker 4: chemical energy causing reaction that we came up with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think about it as if matter is like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of tiny little springs bound together, and if

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Speaker 1: you find just the right way to release those springs,

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Speaker 1: you can capture all that energy and use it for

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Speaker 1: something else. And exactly, fire is just that there are

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Speaker 1: chemical bonds stored within the carbon and the other elements

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Speaker 1: within wood, for example, and heat will release them in

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Speaker 1: this chain reaction. That's the magic where some energy is

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Speaker 1: released and then it causes the neighbors to release their energy,

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Speaker 1: which causes the neighbors to release their energy. And that's

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Speaker 1: the magic, because you don't want to release the energy

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Speaker 1: of just like one atom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so we figured out fire, and then eventually

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Speaker 4: humans invented I guess it exploses and gasoline and engines,

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Speaker 4: and so we're pretty good, it seems at kind of

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Speaker 4: releasing that energy, at least the chemical kind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we are. And all these things so far also

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Speaker 1: happen in nature, right, Like fire is started by lightning,

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Speaker 1: and most of the chemical chain reactions that humans have

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Speaker 1: taken advantage of you can also see happening in nature.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and eventually we were able to harness the energy

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Speaker 4: inside of atoms, right, I mean, we've figured out fusion

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Speaker 4: and fission for both reactors and bombs.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And I actually grew up in the town

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Speaker 1: where the bombs were invented, in Los Almos. So this,

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Speaker 1: like capturing the power at the heart of an atom,

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Speaker 1: is sort of essential theme to my childhood.

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Speaker 4: There's a certain glow about you, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: No, that's all the plutonium. I a it as a child.

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Speaker 4: Oh I see that's different. All right. Well, yeah, we

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Speaker 4: made fusion and fission bombs. And as you were saying, Daniel,

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Speaker 4: fusion happens a lot in nature. It happens naturally every

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Speaker 4: time there's a sun, and every time you look out

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Speaker 4: into the night sky, each one of those stars is

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Speaker 4: a fusion reactor. There's basically an ongoing fusion bomb at

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Speaker 4: each one of those pinpoints in the sky.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's awesome because it's a fusion bomb into

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Speaker 1: continuous explosion that's also held in place by gravity. So

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Speaker 1: it's like a stable reaction, which you know we've discovered

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Speaker 1: is not that easy to engineer, but the universe has

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Speaker 1: done it. It's amazing to me that stars exist and

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Speaker 1: that they last for so long.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, this night sky would be a lot less

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Speaker 4: prettier without fusion and stars in it. I mean, what

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Speaker 4: would BEng Go have painted in Starry Night.

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Speaker 1: The Blacky Blackie Knight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so the stars are fusion, and so we know

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Speaker 4: that happens out in nature a lot. But fission is

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Speaker 4: different than fusion, right, it's sort of the opposite of fusion.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Fusion is when you squeeze together light nuclei

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Speaker 1: to make heavier ones, like squeeze hydrogen together to make helium.

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Speaker 1: But fission is when you start with something which is

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Speaker 1: already big and heavy, like uranium or plutonium, and you

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Speaker 1: crack it into smaller nuclei, which also releases energy.

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Speaker 4: Right, And so fission is the one that I think

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Speaker 4: maybe most people associate with nuclear power right here on

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Speaker 4: Earth that humans have been able to engineer. Right. I

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Speaker 4: think most nuclear power plants and the nuclear bombs that

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Speaker 4: we've made, and that people worry about our fission.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's right. All of the nuclear power plants are fission.

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Speaker 1: We're working on fusion plants, but nobody's really made that

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Speaker 1: work yet. Our nuclear weapons initially were fission because it's

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Speaker 1: simpler and easier to get to work, but then more

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Speaker 1: recently they are fusion powered because they's much more destructive. Actually,

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Speaker 1: some of our nuclear weapons are fission bombs that are

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Speaker 1: used just to trigger a fusion reaction. So they're like

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Speaker 1: fission and fusion.

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Speaker 4: It's a fusion of fission and fusion.

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Speaker 1: It's insane. It's like, how do you light a fusion bomb.

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Speaker 1: You need a fission bomb just to get it going.

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Speaker 4: Just give it up a little extra fizz. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I guess there's sort of this weird thing that you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't quite make fusion power happen here on Earth,

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Speaker 4: but it had's happening all over the universe. And but

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Speaker 4: then we can make fission bombs and fission reactors here

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Speaker 4: on Earth. We've gone pretty good at engineering those, but

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Speaker 4: you maybe don't quite see them out there in the

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Speaker 4: universe as much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fission reactors take really special conditions which you don't

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Speaker 1: find out there in the universe. And it makes me wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: are humans the only ones who are doing this? Are

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Speaker 1: these reactions only happen in our laboratories?

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Speaker 4: And so to the on the podcast, we'll be asking

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Speaker 4: the question can a fission reactor happen naturally? And Daniel,

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Speaker 4: this isn't one of those episodes where we actually like

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Speaker 4: tell people how to make a fission bomb or or

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Speaker 4: something dangerous out there. It's not another one of those episodes, is.

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Speaker 1: No, this is not in the Supervillain how to series.

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Speaker 1: Check out our YouTube series on how to become a

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Speaker 1: Supervillain using physics.

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Speaker 4: So I check out our lessons on our website.

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Speaker 1: First, adopt a white cat, second by a volcano. Shave

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Speaker 1: your head what you gotta shave your head. I'm out,

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Speaker 1: nothing's worth that.

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Speaker 4: Let's be honest. We're almost at at the barbling stage anyway.

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Speaker 1: Not me. I'm forty six and I still have a

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Speaker 1: vibrant head of hair, not a single.

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Speaker 4: Gray Oh it's all that plutonium.

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Speaker 1: It's all that plutonium exactly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. But anyways, so I guess the question is, like,

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Speaker 4: can we know that a fusion reactor happens naturally in nature?

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Speaker 4: It's in every at the center of every star. But

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Speaker 4: the question is does a fission reactor happen naturally in

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Speaker 4: the universe? Like can you have a fission star even

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Speaker 4: out there in space?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually did a whole episode about can you

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Speaker 1: have stars that are run by fission? That was a

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Speaker 1: listener question, which is super awesome, and we decided it

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Speaker 1: might be possible, but it was very unlikely to arrange

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Speaker 1: the circumstances necessary. And what we'll discover in today's episode

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Speaker 1: is that fission is delicate and you have to have

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Speaker 1: just the right conditions arranged in just the right way,

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Speaker 1: just the right time to make it happen, or you

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Speaker 1: need clever human engineers.

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Speaker 4: Well, it seems kind of weird to me, right, because

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Speaker 4: it seems generally that it's easier to break things than

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Speaker 4: they is to put them back together. So it's kind

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Speaker 4: of weird to think that fission is sort of like

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Speaker 4: rarer or harder to achieve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, although the products that you need for fission,

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Speaker 1: the heavy stuff, are generally more rare than the products

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Speaker 1: you need for fusion, which is the light stuff. Like, remember,

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Speaker 1: the universe still mostly hydrogen. We've been working at it

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Speaker 1: for fourteen billion years and still most of the stuff

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Speaker 1: in the un is just what it started as, which

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Speaker 1: is hydrogen.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, as usual, we were wondering how many

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Speaker 4: people out there had thought about this question and knew

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Speaker 4: whether nuclear fission reactors can happen in nature, So Daniel

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Speaker 4: went out there into the Internet to ask people this question.

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Speaker 1: So thank you denizens of the Internet for answering these questions.

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Speaker 1: And if you are a denizen of the Internet and

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Speaker 1: have not yet answered our questions, we want to hear

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Speaker 1: your voice, especially if you have a super awesome, unusual,

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Speaker 1: weird voice that people would like to listen to. But

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Speaker 1: even if you don't and you like answering random questions,

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Speaker 1: shoot us a note to questions at Danielandjorge dot Com.

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Speaker 4: Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 7: I don't think nuclear fission can occur naturally because you

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Speaker 7: always hear about how lighter elements, for like fuse to

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Speaker 7: form heavier elements, and that's how all the heavier elements

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Speaker 7: in the universe have been formed. But you never hear

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Speaker 7: anything about the opposite reverse and like, there's no splitting,

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Speaker 7: there's no creation of more sort of hydrogen and that

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Speaker 7: you hear of.

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Speaker 8: My initial response was, yes, nuclear fission occurs in nature naturally,

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Speaker 8: and it was just a trick from nature that we've copied.

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Speaker 8: But on the other hand, I don't see nuclear bombs

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Speaker 8: spontaneously going off in nature underground all the time, so

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Speaker 8: maybe not. But I can also imagine that in high.

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Speaker 9: Energy occurrences like supernova or other I energy occurrences, stuff

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Speaker 9: gets bombarded with neutrons and atom split.

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Speaker 8: So I'd still have to go with yes, but I'm

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Speaker 8: not totally certain.

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Speaker 10: I would like to think so, but I think most

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Speaker 10: nuclear fission that I know about is something man made, so.

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Speaker 5: Maybe since we full split atoms in nuclear reactors, it

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Speaker 5: sounds like it'd be a bit scary if it happened

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Speaker 5: anywhere on Earth naturally.

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Speaker 11: Yes, I believe it can. I think there's an example

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Speaker 11: of it having happened to something billion years ago in

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Speaker 11: continental Africa somewhere. I don't know of any other examples,

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Speaker 11: but I believe it can happen naturally.

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Speaker 1: You're quite sure about that.

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Speaker 10: The strong forces which I'm pretty sure keeps those nuclei together,

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Speaker 10: some electromenetic forces keeping it together. That it would take

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Speaker 10: a lot to oppose that. So I'm thinking maybe in

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Speaker 10: some sort of extreme gravity situation. But still I still

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Speaker 10: think those nuclear are too small and the strong force

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Speaker 10: is too strong to have some sort of nuclear fission

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Speaker 10: occur naturally.

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Speaker 1: I think it can occurred naturally. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to explain it, and I don't know how.

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Speaker 12: I do not know if nuclear fission occurs naturally, but

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Speaker 12: I assume it does. Because of the vast quantities of

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Speaker 12: different elements the universe has. So sure what's happened full

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Speaker 12: in the universe.

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Speaker 4: All right on the whole, it seems like most people

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Speaker 4: thought that yes, the answer was yes, that you can

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Speaker 4: have fission out there in nature happened naturally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this is motivated by the general

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Speaker 1: feeling that like, wow, it's a big universe, and everything

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Speaker 1: you imagine might happen is probably out there happening somewhere.

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Speaker 4: They've heard our podcast so much that now they just

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Speaker 4: assume that anything that sounds crazy is happening somewhere, at

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Speaker 4: least in one spot in this infinite universe.

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Speaker 1: And it's a good motivation. You know. Astrophysicists take advantage

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Speaker 1: of that all the time. They can't like do experiments

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Speaker 1: like what happens when two neutron stars collide. You can't

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Speaker 1: build a neutron star collider. So you just look out

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Speaker 1: in the universe and say, hey, let's watch and see

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Speaker 1: if we spot it happening, and then we can do

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Speaker 1: our experiment effectively.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I guess why do you why do we

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Speaker 4: even need to hire you, Daniel?

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Speaker 1: Somebody's got to eat the plutonium man.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody's got to make the banana jokes. All right.

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Speaker 4: So let's talk about this question of whether or not

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Speaker 4: nuclear fission reactors can happen naturally out there in the universe.

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Speaker 4: And so, first of all, I guess let's step through

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Speaker 4: it in more detail. What is nuclear fission?

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Speaker 1: So fission is when you break up heavy nuclei into

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Speaker 1: smaller atoms, so everything above iron, everything that's heavier than iron,

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Speaker 1: that has more protons in the nucleus than iron, if

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Speaker 1: you crack it in half, then you release energy and

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Speaker 1: you make two smaller nuclei.

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Speaker 4: Right, Because I guess all matter, all the stuff we're

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Speaker 4: made out of, is made out of atoms, and an

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Speaker 4: atom is in nucleus with electrons flying around it, and

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Speaker 4: so the only difference between like uranium and carbon is

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Speaker 4: just how much stuff is in the nucleus, right, which

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Speaker 4: is just protons and neutrons exactly.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that defines an element is the number

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Speaker 1: of protons in it. So if you add a proton,

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Speaker 1: you change the charge because protons are charged, and then

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Speaker 1: you need another electron and that changes the fundamental chemical

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Speaker 1: reactions that it can be involved in, so that changes

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Speaker 1: sort of the identity of it. You can add neutrons

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Speaker 1: if you like. Neutrons are neutrals, so they don't change

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Speaker 1: the charge and don't require another electron, but it does

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Speaker 1: give you another isotope. And as you add protons and neutrons,

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Speaker 1: things get heavy, and there are some arrangements that are

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Speaker 1: stable they can hang out basically forever, but there are

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Speaker 1: lots of these arrangements which are not stable, which will

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Speaker 1: eventually just sort of break up on their own. We

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Speaker 1: had a whole fun podcast about really heavy elements and

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Speaker 1: which ones are stable and which ones are not stable,

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Speaker 1: which you can check out if you're interested in the

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Speaker 1: nuclear physics of it.

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Speaker 4: So, I guess you're saying the identity of atoms has

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Speaker 4: all everything to do with the protons in it. So

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Speaker 4: like hydrogen just has one proton in the middle, but

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Speaker 4: uranium has like two hundred and thirty five protons typically

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Speaker 4: or hundreds of protons in the nucleus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uranium has ninety two protons in it, but it

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Speaker 1: occurs in nature in a couple of different isotopes uranium

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Speaker 1: two thirty five, where two thirty five refers to the

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Speaker 1: number of protons and neutrons together. So if you do

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Speaker 1: some quick math, you can discover uranium two to thirty

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Speaker 1: five has ninety two protons and one hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: three neutrons stuffed into it. And it's also uranium two

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Speaker 1: thirty eight, which comes with three more neutrons, And so

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Speaker 1: most of the uranium out there is you two thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: which is much more stable. You two thirty five is

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Speaker 1: more rare and much more useful actually for fission.

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Speaker 4: Right, right, But you know they're not as good as

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Speaker 4: you two.

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Speaker 1: I think they've been working on it for a lot

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Speaker 1: longer though, still waiting to have that breakthrough album.

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Speaker 4: They're a lot more heavy metal.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there are no hit wonder now.

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Speaker 4: I'm just kidding, I think. I think what you're saying

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Speaker 4: is that, you know, uranium has ninety two protons and

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Speaker 4: a whole bunch of neutrons, and it's sort of like legos, right,

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Speaker 4: Like you can just add these building blocks and you

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Speaker 4: get different atoms, which means that at some point you

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Speaker 4: could potentially break them apart to get two of the

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Speaker 4: lighter elements, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you break up that nucleus, and then you

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Speaker 1: share those protons, those ninety two protons between the products,

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Speaker 1: and so you get things made out of smaller numbers

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Speaker 1: of protons.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so that's a fission reaction. That's nuclear fission,

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Speaker 4: that's right.

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Speaker 1: And nuclear fission mostly we do it with uranium two

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Speaker 1: thirty five and sometimes with plutonium two thirty nine, where

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Speaker 1: again the number is the total number of protons and

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Speaker 1: neutrons together, and so in most nuclear reactors that generate power.

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Speaker 1: You have either uranium two thirty five or plutonium two

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Speaker 1: thirty nine, all.

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Speaker 4: Right, And so somehow breaking up the inside of an atom,

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Speaker 4: the nucleus of an atom into smaller elements, somehow that

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Speaker 4: could releases a whole bunch of energy, right, which is

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Speaker 4: kind of weird to think about it. You you think

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Speaker 4: about it, right, like, why would breaking something release energy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because there's energy stored in there. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can imagine if you like mechanical analogies, you can

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Speaker 1: imagine like that they're stored in there with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of springs that are really totly wound together, and when

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Speaker 1: you break it, what happens is that the springs released

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Speaker 1: and they shoot the parts out, and there's parts are

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Speaker 1: now moving really really fast. So the energy that was

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Speaker 1: stored in that spring has now been transformed into the

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Speaker 1: motion of the particles that are flying out. And that's

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Speaker 1: essentially what's happening here, except instead of having like literal springs,

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Speaker 1: you have gluons, the carriers of the strong force that

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Speaker 1: are tying these things together. There's a lot of energy

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Speaker 1: in those bonds, and when you break it up, that

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Speaker 1: energy is released and the particles come out moving really quickly.

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Speaker 4: I guess maybe it might help if we maybe talked

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Speaker 4: a little bit about what's actually going on, Like if

442
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 4: I break a banana and two or if I break

443
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 4: my cell phone or something like, I don't get a

444
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 4: lot of energy getting released, right, Like, things are breaking

445
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 4: and bonds are breaking, but there's not a lot of

446
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 4: like where does that energy come from? Actually?

447
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if you do break a banana and half

448
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: or you break your cell phone and half, you are

449
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: breaking bonds. Those are chemical bonds, right, Those are bonds

450
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,719
Speaker 1: between atoms, and the atoms are not changing. You might

451
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: be taking a molecule and breaking it into its atoms,

452
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: or you might be just sort of like cracking a

453
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: crystal along you know, a part of its lattice. And

454
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: so there are bonds between molecules that are being released,

455
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: but you don't notice any energy being released there because

456
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: the energy is really really small. But when you break

457
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: a nucleus in half, then the energy released is huge.

458
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 1: And the reason it's much bigger is because the strong

459
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: force is involved. In the strong force as well, it's

460
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: really strong, so it has a lot of energy stored

461
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: inside these atoms. It's much stronger than the electromagnetic force,

462
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: which is one that's holding your banana or your cell

463
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: phone together.

464
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: I guess it's kind of like you say that, like

465
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 4: there's a spring holding these nuclei particles together, and so

466
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 4: suddenly if you like detach those springs, they're gonna spring out, right,

467
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 4: all that sort of stretched energy has to go somewhere.

468
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of like a jack in the box, right,

469
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: and you open the top and boom, everything pops out.

470
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: Or it's like you know, one of those cans full

471
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: of snakes, so you open it up and like bang,

472
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: everything flies out. And that's exactly what happens here. You

473
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: crack open the nucleus it was held together sort of delicately.

474
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 1: You crack it open, and everything flies out with a

475
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: bunch of energy.

476
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 4: But it's sort of like a reverse jack in the box, right,

477
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: because the springs are pulling stuff together, not sort of

478
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 4: being compressed and wanting to explode.

479
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly here in this case, the bonds are holding

480
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: them together, so they're sort of trapped in a bound

481
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: state where the bonds you know, have a potential well,

482
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: where everything is like trapped inside. You can think of

483
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: that sort of as like the box that's holding the

484
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: jack in the box together, or the can that's holding

485
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: the snakes inside. But inside there are things with a

486
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of energy that are desperate to get out. They're

487
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: trapped into a stable configuration currently, but if you destroy

488
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: the barriers that are holding them in, they will fly out.

489
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's like, you know, wrapping something open

490
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 4: bungee cords and holding this time some something big together

491
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: with bungee cords or rubber bands, and then when you

492
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 4: cut a rubber band, you know, it snaps and they

493
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 4: go flying out.

494
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Take a huge ball of rubber bands and

495
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: cut it in half with a circular saw. Then the

496
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: rubber bands are going to go everywhere, and they're not

497
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: just going to lie down nicely on the table.

498
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 4: All right, Well, that's nuclear fission. That's what happens when

499
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 4: fission happens in an atom. And so let's get into

500
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 4: whether or not it happens naturally in nature and whether

501
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 4: or not we've ever seen it happen. But first let's

502
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 4: take a quick break.

503
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,280
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552
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Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth or enjoy

553
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Speaker 1: a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably not thinking

554
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: about the environmental impact of each and every bite, But

555
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy has

556
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Speaker 1: set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse gas

557
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Speaker 1: neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working hard

558
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Speaker 1: every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve

559
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Speaker 1: natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

560
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four times.

561
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: The same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn,

562
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: and irrigates the How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases?

563
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

564
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565
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Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice

566
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Speaker 1: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that

567
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568
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569
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Speaker 1: products we love with less of an impact. Visit usdairy

570
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

571
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about nuclear fission and how to

572
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 4: make it at home, right, Daniel, some simple.

573
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: Ingredients, that's right. First, call up the NSA and book

574
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: your room because you're going to be staying with them

575
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Speaker 1: for a long time. Make sure you get a spot

576
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: with a window.

577
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 4: Oh man, I wonder if there are people from the

578
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 4: NSA listening to us.

579
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: The NSA is always listening. It's just not counted in

580
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: our podcast listenership, which I don't think is fair.

581
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 4: I see right, right, we could have one more added

582
00:27:58,840 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 4: to our.

583
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: Data listening to the ads, in which case, hey, it's

584
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: all cool, it's.

585
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 4: All click through. But yeah, we talked about fission and

586
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 4: what it is. It's when you break up a heavy

587
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 4: atom into lighter atoms. When you redistribute the number of

588
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 4: protons and the nucleus. And so the question we're asking

589
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: today is can that happen naturally in nature? And more specifically,

590
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 4: can can you like have a reactor of it that

591
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: creates a bunch of energy happen in nature?

592
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: Exactly because fission itself, like an atom breaking into smaller

593
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: pieces and releasing energy, that happens all the time, like

594
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: uranium just sitting around is unstable, and those atoms will

595
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: crack and havel and they will fly apart, and lots

596
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: of atoms are unstable, and every time that happens you

597
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: call it radioactive decay. It really is fission. But what

598
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: we do inside of reactor is not just have like

599
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: one atom break in half or two atoms break in half.

600
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: We have something special. We have a chain reaction, a

601
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: self sustaining reaction sort of like fire. That's a very

602
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: special arrangement which only in this century we were able

603
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: to end engineer to make happen.

604
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 4: So you're saying that like fission by itself does happen

605
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 4: in nature, like things break apart in nature all the time,

606
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: but it's getting it to be self sustaining and have

607
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 4: it sort of be like a fire where it's constantly happening.

608
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: That's harder, or like did you see the sun? For fusion,

609
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 4: that's harder to do.

610
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's like the difference between having a spark

611
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: and having a fire. You know, we've all been there

612
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: at a campsite shooting sparks at something and trying to

613
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: get a fire started. It's not always easy to get

614
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a fire started. Right. You can have sparks, which are

615
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: evidence of energy being released, right, the same chemical process

616
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: is at work. But to get a fire started, you

617
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: need to get enough heat so that you're igniting more fuel,

618
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: which can then release more heat, which can ignite more fuel.

619
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: So it's a self sustaining part which is quite tricky

620
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: to happen, even for a fire. Sometimes, I'm especially difficult

621
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: for a fission chain reaction.

622
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: So this happens in nature for fusion, like in the

623
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: sun and the stars that it seems to happen more

624
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 4: easily for fusion than for fission.

625
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: Right, But again that's probably just because there is a

626
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: lot of fuel for fusion around, right. Fusion requires light elements,

627
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of light elements in the universe.

628
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: It's mostly hydrogen out there, and so that's fuel for fusion.

629
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 4: All right. So you're saying that fission, making fission happen

630
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 4: it constantly is hard, but we figured it out here

631
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 4: on Earth right in our nuclear reactors and in our

632
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 4: nuclear bombs. So how do we do it?

633
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: So the key things you need to make a self

634
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: sustaining fission reaction, you need two things. One is you

635
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: need enough fuel sort of close to each other, because

636
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: you need one fission reaction to trigger the next one,

637
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: which triggers the next one right, sort of like if

638
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: you're trying to start a fire, you don't spread your

639
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: logs out everywhere. Get them close together so the heat

640
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: from one can ignite the next one. And then you

641
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: also need something to get the neutrons that fly out

642
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: to be at the right speed, because the neutrons that

643
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: fly out don't always come out at just the right

644
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: speed to trigger the next reaction. So you need one

645
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: a critical mass, and two you need this thing called

646
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: a neutron moderate which makes the neutrons go with just

647
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: the right temperature.

648
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, those neutrons are not as neutral as they seem.

649
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 4: Sometimes you get them pulling back sometimes.

650
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: Well, they're just so excited to get out there in

651
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: the world and do something like hey, neutron, look, let

652
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: me give you some career advice. Okay, you don't want

653
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: to burn out immediately.

654
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: All right, So let's tackle each of these interns. So

655
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 4: you say you need critical mass because in a chain

656
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 4: reaction fission, in a fission chain reaction, you have like

657
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 4: one atom splits open that releases a bunch of energy,

658
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: and then that energy comes out as particles I guess

659
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 4: or photons, and then those hit other heavy nuclei, which

660
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: then causes them to break, and then those release more energy,

661
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 4: which causes other things to break. So that's what you

662
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 4: mean by chain reaction.

663
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. And what happens when you break up

664
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: the uranium, for example, is you get the fragments, you

665
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: get the lighter elements, and then mostly you get neutrons.

666
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Like you get some energy in terms of photons, but

667
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: then also you get these neutrons, and that's critical because

668
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: it's the neutrons that are going to trigger the neighboring

669
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: atom to break apart. So, for example, you take a

670
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: neutron and you shoot it into a uranium atom, and

671
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: it will make it unstable. It will give it enough

672
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: energy so that instead of being like a nicely built

673
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: piece of lego, it's like it's a little wobbly and

674
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: then it's going to break open. And so it's the

675
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: neutron that triggers the reaction in the neighbor.

676
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 4: Interesting, So I guess, first of all, when an atom

677
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: breaks apart, why does it release a lot of neutrons

678
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 4: and not like protons or something else.

679
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually shoots out a bunch of particles, and

680
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: so sometimes you get neutrons, sometimes you get gamma rays.

681
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: You can also get protons. Mostly the protons like the

682
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: cluster together into these other nucleis, so we call these

683
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: nuclear fragments. They go off and form little daughter particles.

684
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: But you can sometimes get protons out. And also the

685
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: neutrons that you shoot out, they will eventually decay because

686
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: neutrons are not stable, so you will eventually get protons

687
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: coming out also.

688
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 4: All Right, So you're saying that's pretty interesting, because that's

689
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 4: one thing I didn't know is that I always thought

690
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: that when fission reactions happen, it's like the energy from

691
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: the shooting particles break the other ones apart. Bird, It's

692
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 4: really more like you're shooting off hairs and they break

693
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 4: the camels back of other nuca.

694
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like little bullets, right. These neutrons are like

695
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: little bullets, and they're shooting out and they have just

696
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: the right interactions to mess up the neighbors. And so

697
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: it's sort of like you know, divorces spreading throughout a

698
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: friend group. You know, people get grumpy, they get divorced,

699
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: they start complaining to their friends about their marriages, and

700
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: their friends are like, oh, that sounds familiar, maybe we

701
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: should get divorced.

702
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like I was saying, it's like it's shooting

703
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: hairs that break the camel's backs all around, and then

704
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 4: when those camels break apart, it shoots off hairs that

705
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 4: break other camel backs right exactly.

706
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: And so what you need is a critical mass. When

707
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: those neutrons fly out of the fissioning atom, they need

708
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: something to hit. So you need to have enough fuel

709
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: sort of packed densely together in order to make it

710
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: so that you can have a self sustaining reaction. And

711
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: critical mass is probably like a phrase you've heard before,

712
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: and that's essentially the most important component in having a

713
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: nuclear reaction.

714
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 4: Right, because I guess if the camels are too far apart.

715
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 4: You know, one of them will just break apart and

716
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: send hairs flying up, but the hairs won't hit the

717
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 4: other camels, So you need tom packed close together.

718
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: I see that you prefer to talk about camels than divorces.

719
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 4: I'll go, yeah, it's a bit of a bummer camels.

720
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 4: It's just, you know, a more fun image.

721
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: Are camel's monogamous? By the way, do they mate for life?

722
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about camel divorce.

723
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to fuse it all together rather than

724
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: fission our analogies into two different topics.

725
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, how many analogies for fission can we come up with?

726
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 4: We've already broken bananas and Jack in the box inverse

727
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 4: Jack in the boxes and camels and divorce. All right,

728
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 4: so new critical mass we get a chain reaction of fission.

729
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 4: And you also said you need to slow down the

730
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 4: neutrons somehow.

731
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem is that when the neutrons fly out,

732
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: they have a lot of energy, so they're called fast neutrons.

733
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: They're just moving really, really quickly, and even if you

734
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: pack your uranium pretty tightly, the neutrons that come out

735
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: are moving too quickly to ignite the neighboring uranium nuclei

736
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: into breaks because the faster they're going, the more like

737
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: the universe is compressed for them, and so they have

738
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: a smaller chance of hitting those neighbors. So what you

739
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: need is something to slow down those neutrons to just

740
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: the right speed so they have a high enough chance

741
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: of hitting a nucleus and triggering another reaction.

742
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 4: Oh interesting, it's about like the probability of hitting another atom. Right,

743
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: Like the hairs from the camel are flying too fast,

744
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 4: they'll just miss all the other camels. But if it's

745
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 4: growing slow, then there's a bigger chance that you know,

746
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: a camel will walk into the path of one of

747
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: these hairs.

748
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you don't want your neutrons to fly all

749
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 1: the way through your fuel and escape with their energy.

750
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: You want them to deposit that energy in some other

751
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: nuclei so it can trigger another reaction. So basically you

752
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: have to make your fuel opaque to neutrons rather than transparent,

753
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: and so to do that, you got to slow them

754
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: down because fast neutrons will escape and slow neutrons will

755
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: be captured by neighboring atoms and trigger more reactions.

756
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 4: All right, you need critical mass and you need to

757
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 4: slow down your neutrons, and if you do that, then

758
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: you can get a fission chain reaction to heaven. And

759
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 4: that's what gives you nuclear bombs and nuclear reactors.

760
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: That's right, that's mostly the design for a nuclear reactor,

761
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: non nuclear bomb. And so if you're a nice person

762
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: out there and looking to build the next generation of

763
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: nuclear reactors and provide clean, green energy to the future,

764
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: then we support you. If you're out there trying to

765
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: build a nuclear weapon, then you know, check out another podcast.

766
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're done here. You can basically turn this off down.

767
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: But this was first done in nineteen forty two in

768
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: Chicago by Enrico Fermi. And it's not an easy thing

769
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: to accomplish this right balance of having the right mass

770
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: of fuel and just the right sort of neutron moderator

771
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: to get the neutrons at the right speed. It's really

772
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: quite delicate.

773
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 4: So that's how you make a nucleon fission reactor. And

774
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 4: so now the question that we started with was does

775
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: it occur naturally in nature? Are there stars out there?

776
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: Are there things that are naturally reacting with fission constantly?

777
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: So let's get into that question. But let's take another

778
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 4: quick break. When you pop a piece of cheese into

779
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 4: your mouth or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt,

780
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 4: you're probably not thinking about the environmental impact of each

781
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: and every bite. But the people in the dairy industry are.

782
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 4: US Dairy has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including

783
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 4: being greenhouse gas neutral by twenty to fifty That's why

784
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 4: they're working hard every day to find new ways to

785
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 4: reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions.

786
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: Take water, for example, most dairy farms reuse water up

787
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 4: to four times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment,

788
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: washes the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US

789
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that

790
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 4: turn the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can

791
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 4: power farms, towns, and electric cars. So the next time

792
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 4: you grab a slice of pizza or lick an ice

793
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 4: cream cone, know that dairy farmers and processors around the

794
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 4: country are using the latest practices and innovations to provide

795
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 4: the nutrient dense dairy products we love. With less of

796
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 4: an impact. Visit usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

797
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which

798
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 5: recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm

799
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 5: a neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring

800
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 5: the three pound universe in our heads. We're looking at

801
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 5: a whole new series of episodes this season to understand

802
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 5: why and how our lives look the way they do.

803
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 5: Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it

804
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 5: so hard to keep a secret, When should you not

805
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 5: trust your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for

806
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 5: magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories. I'm

807
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 5: hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we

808
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 5: know about what's running under the hood, the better we

809
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 5: can steer our lives.

810
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 6: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

811
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 5: Between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions.

812
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 5: Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app,

813
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

814
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 14: Parents, are you looking for a screen free, engaging way

815
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 14: to teach your kids the Bible? One that's easy to

816
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Speaker 14: understand and enjoyable for multiple ages. Kids Bible Stories Podcast

817
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818
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819
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,279
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820
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821
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Speaker 14: hundreds and hundreds of beautiful episodes that bring the Bible

822
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823
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824
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825
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826
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827
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 14: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

828
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 15: We think of Franklin as the dodling dude, fly a

829
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 15: kite and no rain, but those experiments are the most

830
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 15: important scientific discoveries of the time.

831
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: I'm Evan Ratliffe.

832
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 16: Last season, we tackled the ingenuity of Elon Musk with

833
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 16: biographer Walter Isaacson. This time we're diving into the story

834
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 16: of Benjamin Franklin, another genius who's desperate to be dusted

835
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 16: off from history.

836
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 15: His media empire makes him the most successful self made

837
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 15: business person in America. I mean he was never early

838
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 15: to bed, an early to rise type person. He's enormously famous.

839
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 15: Women shut wearing their hair in what was called the

840
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 15: coiffor a la Franklin.

841
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: And who's more relevant now than ever.

842
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 15: The only other person who could have possibly been the

843
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 15: first president would have been Benjamin Franklin, but he's too

844
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 15: old and wants Washington to do it.

845
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 16: Listen to on Benjamin Franklin with Walter Isaacson on the

846
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 16: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

847
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: All right? Can a fission reactor happen naturally on this universe? Daniel?

848
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: I guess the question is, is there somehow, you know,

849
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: like we see stars out there that are constant fusion reactors?

850
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 4: Do we see I don't know, some weird concentration of

851
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 4: uranium or plutonium that is constantly also reacting and giving

852
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: off energy.

853
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, what you would need are both of the elements, right,

854
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: You need some critical mass of uranium or plutonium, and

855
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: you'd need something to moderate the reaction so that it

856
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: can self sustain rather than just like burning itself out

857
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: by shooting these neutrons out and losing all of their energy.

858
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: And so in our episode about fission stars, I think

859
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: we concluded that there isn't enough uranium in the universe

860
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: to make like dense blobs of uranium that could do that.

861
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: But you know, there are deposits of uranium here in

862
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: the crust of the Earth's surface, and so you could imagine, like, hmm,

863
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: could they're just like happen to be really rich deposits

864
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: of uranium in the Earth's surface and just the right

865
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: arrangement to somehow like create natural fission reactors.

866
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: Right, because I guess you could get a chain reaction

867
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 4: going with any amount of uranium, but I guess if

868
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: you only have like a tea spoon of it, it

869
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 4: won't last very long. Right, So you're saying, like, maybe

870
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: here on Earth we could have enough uranium together that

871
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 4: we do get this sort of nuclear constant reaction going exactly.

872
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: And this is something that in nineteen fifty six a

873
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: business was thinking about. It was Paul Krota, and he

874
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: predicted that it would be possible. He said, if you

875
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: have a configuration in the Earth's crust where you have

876
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: exactly the right amount of uranium in the right configuration,

877
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 1: and like water leaks in and provides just the right

878
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of like neutron moderation, then you could get a

879
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: nuclear reaction going just like by itself spontaneously underground.

880
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 4: I guess I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

881
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 4: Is it the case that you know, we have a

882
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 4: lot of uranium here on Earth and it's it's fissioning,

883
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 4: it's breaking up apart, but it's not causing a chain reaction,

884
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 4: so it's not sort of like burning up really quickly.

885
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Uranium just sitting around is constantly fissioning

886
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: and constantly breaking up, and sometimes it's even in critical mass,

887
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: but there's not a neutron moderator, and so you need

888
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: that second piece to make the self sustaining reaction happen.

889
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: Well, and so that's happened here on Earth. So someone

890
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 4: predicted it. But have we found an actual like natural

891
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: fission reactor on Earth.

892
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: Yes, Actually, somebody has figured out that billions of years

893
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: ago deposits in the earth in Gabon in the African

894
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: Continent did experience a nuclear self reaction. Basically, there was

895
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: a reaction happening underground on Earth, and the way they

896
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 1: discovered it is really quite a fun story what happened.

897
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: Uranium is a very special and important material, right, and

898
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: we don't want the wrong people to get their hands

899
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: on it. So people do very careful accounting of like

900
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: the amount of uranium. And remember that uranium comes in

901
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: two flavors. There's the U two thirty five, which is

902
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: important one you need for doing fission, and then there's

903
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: U two thirty eight, which is much longer lasting and

904
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: much less useful. So typically what you do is you

905
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: mind uranium and then you try to get the U

906
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: two thirty five out of it. You can do like

907
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: centrifuging or any sort of like you know, processing to

908
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: get it out, and most natural deposits have a pretty

909
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: small amount of it, it's something like zero point seven percent.

910
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: So there was this material that they mined in Gabon

911
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: and they were processing it in France and they discovered

912
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: a whole on a second, it's really really low in

913
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: U two thirty five, and they were wondering, like did

914
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: somebody steal all the U two thirty five? Like where

915
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: did all the U two thirty five go? It's like

916
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: this material has already been depleted of the fission material.

917
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 4: Because I guess most of the uranium and Earth was

918
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 4: sort of created at the same time, and so they

919
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 4: all are have the same sort of ratio of the

920
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 4: two kinds of uranium.

921
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: That's right. And it's like a big clock. You know,

922
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: billions of years ago there was more U two thirty

923
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: five on Earth, and it's just depleting, like it's just

924
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: cost instantly fissioning and breaking up and turning into other stuff.

925
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: So the U two thirty five fraction in deposits is

926
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: dropping all over the Earth constantly. And where was this made?

927
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: When did this clock start? Well, we think that this

928
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: stuff was made like in supernovas or in the collisions

929
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: of neutron stars billions and billions of years ago, and

930
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: so it's just been like slowly fissioning into other stuff

931
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: very gradually over billions of years. And now just because

932
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: of where we are in time, it happens to be

933
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: about zero point seven percent of natural uranium.

934
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 4: So I guess we assume that all of the uranium

935
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: on Earth was made at the same time, like there

936
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: was one event that created all this uranium.

937
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, mostly, or at least you know, to within a

938
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: billion years or so.

939
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 4: All right, So then we found this piece of uranium

940
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 4: rock that had a different ratio of the two kinds

941
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 4: of uraniums. It had less of the U two thirty.

942
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: Five exactly, it had less of the useful stuff, the

943
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: stuff that you could use to do fission. And so

944
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: for first people were like, hold on a second, somebody

945
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: must have like slurped it out or stole it or whatever.

946
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: But then they discovered that all of the deposits from

947
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: this one mine had this low fraction that you know,

948
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: that most of the stuff was essentially already depleted of

949
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: what you could use for fission. And so then they

950
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: started thinking, whole on a second, maybe this is an

951
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: example of a natural reactor. Maybe it's just sort of

952
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: like fissioned on its own and burnt out all of

953
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: the useful uranium.

954
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 4: Mmm, like it's ignited. Right, It's like you're looking for

955
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 4: coal deposits, but you find some coal that already looks

956
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 4: burned out.

957
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And so that's exactly what happened. And what

958
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: they figured out is that there are very rich deposits

959
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: of uranium in this mine, so like excellent critical mass,

960
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: just what you need, and that there were cracks in

961
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: the rock where groundwater could seep in, and so the

962
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: groundwater would seep in and then surround these deposits and

963
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: essentially act like a neutron moderator. So like crack and

964
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: get inside. And you know, this is something that like

965
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 1: engineers spent a lot of time becoming proficient in how

966
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: to design, but it just sort of like happened accidentally

967
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: and randomly in this one spot, and it was just

968
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: in the right way to moderate those neutrons so they

969
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: have the right energy to trigger this self sustaining reaction.

970
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 4: WHOA. So really all you need is like just add

971
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 4: water to uranium in the right way and you can

972
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 4: get a little nuclear reactor.

973
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you need water like internally. You can't just

974
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: like put a chunk of uranium in a glass of water.

975
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: You need to be internal so that you can like

976
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: really capture those neutrons and slow them down and before

977
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: they hit another piece of uranium. So you need like

978
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: a cracked piece of uranium, you like it drill holes

979
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: in the uranium first or something.

980
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, you need like a little water barrier

981
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 4: between different parts of the uranium so that it slows

982
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 4: down the neutrons.

983
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: And then what happens, right, What happens is you produce

984
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: a lot of heat, and so then the water gets

985
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 1: hot and it turns into steam, and it boils away

986
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: and it turns off the reaction. Then it cools down

987
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: and more water drips in and it starts again. And

988
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: so they were able to figure out that this thing

989
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: was on a three hour cycle. Is like thirty minutes

990
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: of intense fission reactions boiling this water into steam, and

991
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: then like two and a half hours for it to

992
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: cool down and for water to come back in and

993
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: for things to kick off again. Wow.

994
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 4: And so this happened for how long you think.

995
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: This happened billions of years ago? For a few hundred

996
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: thousand years. By counting like how much uranium has been depleted,

997
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: they were able to figure out that this thing went

998
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: on for quite a long time.

999
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 4: Interesting, you said one hundred thousand years this was happening,

1000
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 4: So for one hundred thousand.

1001
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: Years, hundreds of thousands.

1002
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So for a few hundred thousand years, it's somewhere

1003
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 4: in Africa was unseasonably warm, or like the ground, somewhere

1004
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 4: in the ground or somewhere inside of a mountain. It

1005
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 4: was sort of like hot.

1006
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a few hundred degrees celsius underground

1007
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: and over several hundred thousand years it consumed the fissile

1008
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: material in like several tons of uranium.

1009
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 4: Wow. So it was like a naturally engineered nuclear reactor exactly.

1010
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: And it was producing crazy radiation, right, it was shooting

1011
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: off particles, and you know, if it had been really

1012
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: near the surface, it would like caused cancer in any

1013
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: animals or people living nearby. But of course it was

1014
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: billions of years ago.

1015
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 4: But it happened in Africa. So could that have somehow

1016
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 4: I no know, mutated some plant or animal and here

1017
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 4: we are.

1018
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like an alter version of two thousand

1019
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: and one, you know, like a uranium monolith that like

1020
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 1: mutates our ancestors and makes them intelligent or dumber. Maybe

1021
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: we would have been smarter if this thing happened.

1022
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 4: Happen. Interesting, I see, So maybe we are all really

1023
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 4: superheroes whose origin are and some you know, radioactive event.

1024
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing I find really interesting is that it's

1025
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: no longer possible because uranium is naturally depleting itself, Like

1026
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: this depleted itself really rapidly because of this critical mass

1027
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: and the neutron moderators, et cetera. But most uranium just

1028
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: sitting underground is naturally depleting itself, not through a self

1029
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: sustaining reaction, just as it sort of falls apart and

1030
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: so on. Average, the uranium around the Earth is doesn't

1031
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: have the critical mass anymore to do this. This happened

1032
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: billions of years ago because back then it was much

1033
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: richer in uranium two thirty five. It hadn't like fallen

1034
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: apart yet into the lighter elements.

1035
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, so this couldn't happen again, really, I mean,

1036
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: if you like put the water in in just the

1037
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 4: right way, No.

1038
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: It couldn't happen again. You don't have the critical mass

1039
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: in naturally occurring uranium or anymore anymore. I'm not on

1040
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 1: Earth that we're aware of. Unless there's like a fresh

1041
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: batch of uranium that just landed from a neutron star

1042
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: collision in a neighborhood or somewhere else on another planet,

1043
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: it could certainly happen. But if there's uranium or that's

1044
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: sort of of the same date as the ones that

1045
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: we're typically discovering, then it's no longer rich enough for

1046
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: this to happen.

1047
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 4: Interesting, I see, it's like it's stale exactly.

1048
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: Those camels got stale to use your analogy.

1049
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, they got wet or something. Well, And I see

1050
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 4: because the kind that we use for like nuclear reactors

1051
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 4: and nuclear bonds, we have to like refine it, right,

1052
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 4: we have to make it rich, sure, in this special

1053
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 4: kind of uranium.

1054
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: Hence the famous centrifuges used to make nuclear fuel.

1055
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 4: All right, so maybe it was once. It sounds like

1056
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 4: there was only a brief period of time maybe in

1057
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 4: the history of Earth, where a natural fission reactor could

1058
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 4: have occurred. But no, no longer, right.

1059
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Now it's just up to us humans to

1060
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: engineer the precise conditions necessary to release this energy from

1061
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: the atoms.

1062
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: But I guess it could have happened in other parts

1063
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 4: of the Earth, not just in Africa, Like, there could

1064
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 4: have been other reactors that we don't know about yet,

1065
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 4: and there could be reactors happening in other planets perhaps

1066
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 4: or in other parts of the galaxy.

1067
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: Sure, this is the only one that we have found,

1068
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: but certainly possible that deeper in the Earth or just

1069
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: in undiscovered uranium deposits, there's evidence that it happened other

1070
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: times in the history of the Earth, and it certainly

1071
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: could be happening right now on a fresher planet out there,

1072
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: a less stale camel.

1073
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 4: All right, cool, well, I guess the answer to the question,

1074
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 4: can a fission reactor happen in nature? The answer is yes,

1075
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 4: with the right conditions and the right time, in the

1076
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: right place, you can't have like an actual nature vision reactor.

1077
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel about the quality of

1078
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: human engineering versus just natural randomness?

1079
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 4: Well, humans were engineered by nature, so I think nature

1080
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 4: is the ultimate engineer.

1081
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: How about that Nature should be on all of our

1082
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: papers as well.

1083
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 4: It should be a Marvel superhero nature nature.

1084
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: And it should be totally naked.

1085
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 4: Right on natural, Man, your mind is going to some

1086
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 4: interesting places. Do they divorce nudity? Boy, Daniel, you know

1087
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 4: this is the family friendly podcast, right, We're not trying

1088
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 4: to fuse it with other ideas.

1089
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: I apologize clearly the nature character for Marvel should be

1090
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: a camel.

1091
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 4: You're right, all right? Well, we hope you enjoyed that

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Speaker 4: and then got you to think about what an incredible

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Speaker 4: place nature is. Right where suddenly, for some reason, fission

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Speaker 4: reactors can happen.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So everything that you can't imagine is probably

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00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: happening out there somewhere in the universe. Events are conspiring

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Speaker 1: to create even the most delicate and elaborates in it,

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00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: in which the craziest particle interactions can occur.

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Speaker 4: Well, thanks for joining us, See you next time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

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00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop a

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Speaker 1: piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking

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00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: about the environmental impact. But the people in the dairy

1106
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: industry are. That's why they're working hard every day to

1107
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and

1108
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US dairy tackling greenhouse gases.

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00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the methane from

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00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: manure into renewal energy that can power farms, towns, and

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00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: electric cars. Visit you asdairy dot COM's Last Sustainability to

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Speaker 1: learn more.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which

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Speaker 5: recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I

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Speaker 5: mean neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring

1116
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Speaker 5: the three pound universe in our heads.

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00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 6: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

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00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 5: Between your brain and your life, because the more we

1119
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 5: know about what's running under the hood, that or we

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00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 5: can steer our lives. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David

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Speaker 5: Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you

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00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 5: get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I'm doctor Laurie Sandos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast.

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Speaker 2: As the US elections approach, you can feel like we're

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Speaker 2: angrier and more divided than ever. But in a new

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Speaker 2: hopeful season of my podcast, I'll share with the science

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00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: really shows that were surprisingly more united than most people think.

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Speaker 16: We all know something is wrong in our culture and

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Speaker 16: our pow politics.

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00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 14: And that we need to do better and that we

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00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 14: can do better.

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Speaker 2: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 2: listen to podcasts.