Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. Today,
Speaker 1: I want to share part two of my conversation with
Speaker 1: my ex husband and co parenting partner, Peter Factionelli. If
Speaker 1: you haven't listened to part one, you're going to want
Speaker 1: to go back and do that, so you're all caught up.
Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to continue this conversation about divorce
Speaker 1: and co parenting is because it's an important conversation to have,
Speaker 1: not only for me and Peter, but maybe for you
Speaker 1: as well. I'm also going to want to break this
Speaker 1: conversation down and kind of talk about how it affected
Speaker 1: me and made me feel. So I am going to
Speaker 1: be talking to Adele a little later on in this episode,
Speaker 1: but let's do this. Let's dive back into my chat
Speaker 1: with Peter.
Speaker 2: I also feel like we were very codependent on each
Speaker 2: other because we were so young that it was like
Speaker 2: that we were all that we knew, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, So like I was co dependent on you
Speaker 2: in an emotional way, you were co dependent on me
Speaker 2: in an emotional ways, So you know it was I
Speaker 2: think that that was not not the best.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, what do you mean dependent? Like what
Speaker 1: does that mean? Uh? Like that term for me is
Speaker 1: kind of fifty to fifty codependent.
Speaker 2: It was like like I said, I I what do
Speaker 2: you want for dinner? I don't know, I didn't know
Speaker 2: what what what? What choices to have? It was like, well,
Speaker 2: what do you want for dinner? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: What do you where do you want to live? What
Speaker 2: do I think? It was? It was maybe you didn't
Speaker 2: see it as much because I was kind of living
Speaker 2: your in your life, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: you have life that was established already, and I kind
Speaker 2: of came into it and I kind of moved into
Speaker 2: this established life. So for you, you're like, this is great.
Speaker 2: I've got a husband and I've got dogs, and I've
Speaker 2: got a house and this house now we have together
Speaker 2: and I remember, you know, but it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't really feel like I had many decisions within
Speaker 2: that space. It was like how do I serve this
Speaker 2: my wife.
Speaker 1: And make her happy?
Speaker 2: You know, because of a happy wife, happy life, right,
Speaker 2: So You're like, how do.
Speaker 3: I make her?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: She wants to go up to your ranch this weekend. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll go. Pardon me. Didn't really want to go, but
Speaker 2: I was like, I'll just go and I'll drive and
Speaker 2: i'll drive back and I'll you know, do this over here,
Speaker 2: and I'll do this over there, and I'll plan the vacations.
Speaker 2: Then I'll do this. I was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of choices. It was just part
Speaker 2: that I was felt like, you know, I was good
Speaker 2: at playing, but I just didn't. I hadn't formed me yet,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So you had already formed you,
Speaker 2: so like there was a codependency there in the sense
Speaker 2: of like I don't know, I don't know what choices,
Speaker 2: what I liked, what I don't like, I don't know
Speaker 2: what I like, you know, Like I said, it was
Speaker 2: really interesting when we broke up because it was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what my my likes and dislikes are,
Speaker 2: Like I have to kind of rediscover who I am.
Speaker 2: And you probably had to do that too.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of you that was like, you know,
Speaker 2: now you're an independent person, and then you have these
Speaker 2: two independent figures that are like, Okay, I'm kind of
Speaker 2: figuring out what I like and I'm like, I'm figuring
Speaker 2: out what I like. And then well, now we got
Speaker 2: to come together to co parent, you know, and so
Speaker 2: some of that independence is like, well, no, I want
Speaker 2: to hold on to this, you know, this is how
Speaker 2: I want to do parent, and this is You're like,
Speaker 2: this is how I.
Speaker 1: Want to parent, you know.
Speaker 2: And so then the problems are I was there because
Speaker 2: it was like we were so used to like just
Speaker 2: kind of servicing each other within this relationship. But we
Speaker 2: were kids, you know, So yeah, I mean it's just, uh,
Speaker 2: it was. It was. There were good times and there
Speaker 2: were bad times, but we got we got through these.
Speaker 2: Even the bad times we got through in the sense
Speaker 2: of like our kids always came out of it. And
Speaker 2: so even you know, like I said before, it's not
Speaker 2: fun being uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is kind of where you grow.
Speaker 2: And and so there's a lot of times of uncomfortability
Speaker 2: for both of us too, and we were growing. You know.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about briefly, like step parents bringing in another
Speaker 1: person to the mix. We did that, not initially. Neither
Speaker 1: of us got married right away, but we both had
Speaker 1: a few relationships left and right, and the girls would
Speaker 1: get close, i know, with with from my perspective, your
Speaker 1: relationship after we were demorse, the girls got close with
Speaker 1: your then girlfriend, and that was very very, very very
Speaker 1: difficult for me. I wondered how you felt when another
Speaker 1: guy came in. I don't think I ever was really
Speaker 1: serious with anybody until Dave.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it was a catch showing too, because like
Speaker 2: I had a longer term person there that was getting
Speaker 2: close to them, and so that was hard to watch
Speaker 2: them go through that have another person leave. You know
Speaker 2: that I couldn't, you know, I had nothing that I
Speaker 2: could that I could do to help that or not
Speaker 2: have that happen. It was just it's what happened. And
Speaker 2: I felt bad having them be an effect of that
Speaker 2: because I was with that person for a few years.
Speaker 2: And then on your side, you were you were having
Speaker 2: people come into their lives and then kind of you know,
Speaker 2: leaving in short spurts, you know what I mean. I know,
Speaker 2: like they would go on vacation with the guy and
Speaker 2: then kind of get to know him, and then you
Speaker 2: would move on to somebody else, and it was you
Speaker 2: kind of you know dating, uh, and you're like, I
Speaker 2: think this person is safe enough to introduce them and
Speaker 2: then and then they would so they had these shorter
Speaker 2: amounts of like this guy that they would get to know.
Speaker 2: And for me, it was like I just kind of
Speaker 2: had to trust you, you know, I had to go, Okay,
Speaker 2: well she trusts this person, then I have to trust them,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was never I never
Speaker 2: felt jealous of another person coming in because I always
Speaker 2: felt that the more love that the kids had, the
Speaker 2: the better. Yeah. I mean, so you know, I was
Speaker 2: never enough competition to go, well, I'm the dad here.
Speaker 2: I think that it was harder on you for that
Speaker 2: being the mom, you know, watching another person come in.
Speaker 2: But for me, I was like, you know, when Dave
Speaker 2: came in, I was like, he's a wonderful guy, and
Speaker 2: like I'm and the kids really enjoyed being with him,
Speaker 2: and and so it made me smile that he had
Speaker 2: they had another person that loved them so much, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think that they're incredibly lucky to have. You know,
Speaker 2: they have a stepmom now in my current partner, Lily,
Speaker 2: and and they have Dave, and like they have these
Speaker 2: That's why, like I don't look at it like it's
Speaker 2: a burden that they have to carry for the rest
Speaker 2: of their lives of this divorce. I really look at it, like, Wow,
Speaker 2: there's they're incredibly fortunate to have had now these stepparents
Speaker 2: that that they've gotten to know, that that have added
Speaker 2: to their personalities, that have that they've grown through them
Speaker 2: as well, you know. And and then I also think
Speaker 2: that they're going to be lucky that they can look
Speaker 2: to your relationship with Dave and and and you know,
Speaker 2: get inspired by the love there. And they can look
Speaker 2: at the relationship between me and my partner and get
Speaker 2: inspired by that relationship, you know. And I know you've had,
Speaker 2: you know, your things with Dave, and they've watched you
Speaker 2: come out the other side and grow through that. And
Speaker 2: and so I maybe maybe that's why there's they're so
Speaker 2: great because we kind of had a lot of mistakes
Speaker 2: happen we were growing up, we were growing up, and
Speaker 2: they were kind of learning from our mistakes in some ways.
Speaker 2: And uh, but I but I don't think that there's
Speaker 2: any any perfect parenting textbook model. I mean even now,
Speaker 2: like I'm a new dad, you know, I have a
Speaker 2: twenty month old, and like people are like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you have three kids, you must be a pro at it.
Speaker 2: Now I'm like no. I it's like every kid is
Speaker 2: so different and they they require different things, and then
Speaker 2: the game keeps changing because like, you know, things that
Speaker 2: I did with my kids are like, oh, don't do
Speaker 2: that now.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I remember when when when Jack was younger and I
Speaker 2: went to go take a nap with him, I used
Speaker 2: to take naps with like Luca Bella on my chest,
Speaker 2: like outside on the swing like like this.
Speaker 1: You know you can't do that now.
Speaker 2: No, They're like, you know, don't don't take a nap
Speaker 2: with your child and your chest. They could suffocate them.
Speaker 2: Like really I used to do that with look them.
Speaker 2: It's like, uh, well that's just you know, no seriously,
Speaker 2: Like there's studies now that a lot of parents I
Speaker 2: guess would fall asleep and their kid would get I
Speaker 2: don't know, suffocate, So like you can't, Yeah, you can't
Speaker 2: do that now. It's like all new rules. There was.
Speaker 2: What's the other one is? Oh uh, you know when
Speaker 2: we were parenting, you know, our kids, we were like
Speaker 2: every time they did something wonderful, You're like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: so proud of you.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2: And I was like as a parent, having parents that
Speaker 2: you know, on the other spectrum like kind of left
Speaker 2: me to do my thing, and if I got a
Speaker 2: ninety nine, my mom would be like, oh, well that's great,
Speaker 2: get a hundred next time, which maybe more of a
Speaker 2: perfectionist if anything. But like now they're like, don't say
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you to your kid.
Speaker 1: I'm like, real, wait why.
Speaker 2: Because if you say I'm so proud of you for
Speaker 2: what they do, then they're looking outside sources for for like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm getting these grades for you, so I feel good
Speaker 2: from the outside, right. So there, So there's all these
Speaker 2: articles now that like you're supposed to say to your kid, well,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that? Are you proud of yourself? Yeah,
Speaker 2: well that's so wonderful. I'm so happy that you're proud
Speaker 2: of the work that you did. And so like, look
Speaker 2: at that.
Speaker 1: I just learned something.
Speaker 2: Yeah you look at that, and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 2: thought I knew these answers, and you know, in five
Speaker 2: ten years that might be like, no, you're supposed to
Speaker 2: say you're proud of them. You're like, wait to say it,
Speaker 2: But I get that. I get that, Like, Okay, if
Speaker 2: you keep telling them you're proud of them, then they're
Speaker 2: going to always do something to please the parent, and
Speaker 2: then they become people pleasers, right, and yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2: So then you're just like, okay, so I'll make sure
Speaker 2: that they know that they're doing that work, that artwork
Speaker 2: is something that they should be proud of. Because if
Speaker 2: you self generate that you're proud of your work, then
Speaker 2: you don't need any outside forces to tell you it's good.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of an interesting model.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, can you imagine if we hadn't learned
Speaker 1: if we knew the things now that we if we
Speaker 1: knew that then as parents, Yeah, I wonder how different things.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, but again, I feel
Speaker 2: like we did something right.
Speaker 1: I asked you the question about, like, you know, what
Speaker 1: do you think co parenting is? And I just kind
Speaker 1: of want to answer it for myself that it's about
Speaker 1: respect for the partner, the baby partner ultimately in that
Speaker 1: communication that comes from that place of respect, which was
Speaker 1: something we were definitely challenged on. I think that I
Speaker 1: was very in tune with keeping their childhoods alive even
Speaker 1: though their lives had changed so much. That's very challenging,
Speaker 1: especially when they're going back and forth between two different homes.
Speaker 1: You talked about the girls having to pack a bag.
Speaker 1: That for me was one of the most heart wrenching
Speaker 1: parts of it was because I would go try to
Speaker 1: help them pack or you know, say, would you like
Speaker 1: me to help you in the Fiona specifically would be like, no,
Speaker 1: to do it myself, and it would rip my heart
Speaker 1: out because I felt responsible for her having to pack
Speaker 1: a bag every week like a like be so unsettled,
Speaker 1: you know. I felt like it's my fault, our fault
Speaker 1: that they have to do this, and it's unfortunate, you know.
Speaker 1: I feel like, Oh, my kid's living out of a suitcase.
Speaker 1: And just when she would go to your house and
Speaker 1: get settled in and comfortable and that you would get
Speaker 1: the pace going and you guys would start getting on
Speaker 1: the same page and everybody would be happy. Then, like
Speaker 1: you said, it would be time for them to come
Speaker 1: to my house, and then there was that whole different
Speaker 1: readjustment period. I think so that all plays into the
Speaker 1: respect not just for you, but for them and also
Speaker 1: for me. I I think it's probably was really hard
Speaker 1: for them to understand why because they never saw us fight.
Speaker 1: They never they never understood why we broke up, and
Speaker 1: I also still don't know that they do, but I
Speaker 1: feel like they get it in a different way now.
Speaker 1: But for me, it was remind remembering to remind them
Speaker 1: that they came from a place of love, like they
Speaker 1: were born into love, and you know, because they can
Speaker 1: take on the feelings of why it didn't work or
Speaker 1: why my family's not together anymore. So those are some
Speaker 1: of the most important parts of co parenting for me.
Speaker 1: I would ask you, though, what is it that you
Speaker 1: love the most about being a co parent with me?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, like I said, even when we
Speaker 2: didn't agree on things, and even sometimes when, like you know,
Speaker 2: we text back and forth and we knew how to
Speaker 2: press each other's buttons too. Oh right now, yeah, I
Speaker 2: want to know you already did with the plant attacking me.
Speaker 2: I know you did that on purpose. But you know,
Speaker 2: I really see sometimes a lot of you and our
Speaker 2: kids and it makes me smile, It really does. Like
Speaker 2: and the things that they do and the way they
Speaker 2: handle themselves. I think you're an incredibly strong woman. I
Speaker 2: think the kids see you as a strong woman. I
Speaker 2: think that you know there's a there's an inner strength
Speaker 2: that they carry because of that, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of wonderful things that you
Speaker 2: modeled for them and and and you know, teaching them.
Speaker 2: And I'm appreciative of that, you know. Uh, And I'm
Speaker 2: very appreciative that I had a co parent that that
Speaker 2: cared so much. I think that both of us cared
Speaker 2: sometimes so much that we were like, no, this is
Speaker 2: the way we have to do it. This is the
Speaker 2: way we have to do it. And it was hard
Speaker 2: to find the you know, the right way or the
Speaker 2: way that you know, the middle ground on that and frustrating,
Speaker 2: I'm sure for both for you and me, it was
Speaker 2: just like wow, how because because even when we saw
Speaker 2: each other's points, it was like okay, but it becomes
Speaker 2: so important to go to each other that if if
Speaker 2: it's if they're not parented this way, then something. And
Speaker 2: that's where I say that they're resilient because like you know,
Speaker 2: they're whatever we decide the ultimate goal, Uh, they're gonna
Speaker 2: be okay. And they were and they they're so wonderful.
Speaker 2: So like, you know, I'm appreciative that I have Mother's
Speaker 2: Day was recently and I remember thinking you on Mother's
Speaker 2: Day and thinking, well, you know, she she was so
Speaker 2: wonderfully there and available all the time. Like, uh, for me,
Speaker 2: I was on the other opposite of special. So I
Speaker 2: was always there, but I let them kind of be
Speaker 2: you know, uh, and you were always there, but you
Speaker 2: were like making sure that they you know, we're like
Speaker 2: very protective and it's like in a way that was
Speaker 2: very loving. So yeah, I think that the balance of that,
Speaker 2: you know, like like when I said I had it
Speaker 2: on one extreme, you had it in the other extreme.
Speaker 2: In some weird way, having it on both, you know,
Speaker 2: one weekend be this and one weekend be that, they
Speaker 2: kind of grew to this middle middle ground of that.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe maybe that's what worked. Maybe we didn't
Speaker 2: know what we're doing in that sense and it kind
Speaker 2: of came together. But the proof is in the pudding,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: The proof is, yes, I got that one.
Speaker 2: I grew up with Italian immigrants for parents, so like
Speaker 2: sometimes I get words backwards.
Speaker 1: You mix things up, phrasing raising, which always makes you laugh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we did. Okay, thank you for talking it out.
Speaker 2: Thanks for I feel like this was wonderful. Actually, I
Speaker 2: coming into it, I was like, I think this is
Speaker 2: gonna be really wonderfully healing for us, because we never
Speaker 2: really sat down and talked about our styles of parent
Speaker 2: thing or you know, where we were coming from. It
Speaker 2: was always like I think should do this, I think
Speaker 2: we do that, and I don't agree, and I do agree.
Speaker 2: And then there were times we were like, oh, we
Speaker 2: got to sit down, you know, come together on this
Speaker 2: because this is a big one. And we did, you
Speaker 2: know a lot of times. Yeah, when we were always
Speaker 2: we had each other's backs. Yeah, you know, there there
Speaker 2: was a mostly like smaller things we'd argue about, but
Speaker 2: the bigger things were like, no, this is this is
Speaker 2: a big one. But that said, like I know we're
Speaker 2: coming out at the other end of it, but like
Speaker 2: I'm excited to continue co parenting we have, you know,
Speaker 2: now we get to co parent adult we're done. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well I don't think you're ever done, as apparently you're
Speaker 2: We're always going to be each other's lives. It grows
Speaker 2: into adult parenting, you know, and a lot of times now,
Speaker 2: you know, I can go to the kids and be
Speaker 2: like what are you feeling? You know, but we do
Speaker 2: still check in with each other, and I think if
Speaker 2: we took anything out of this, we should communicate more,
Speaker 2: you know, by phone on any of the issues.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Oh Okay,
Speaker 1: there is a lot too unpack with this conversation, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to need to bring in my friend and
Speaker 1: our therapist, Adele to talk through some of this with me. Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: can you believe what just happened?
Speaker 3: I can, and I can't. It was kind of epic
Speaker 3: that you guys did that. I feel incredibly proud of
Speaker 3: both of you and so happy that you did it.
Speaker 3: But I'm still kind of reeling, So you must be
Speaker 3: just like, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: You know, after we completed the interview or the conversation
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it, I felt unsettled, honestly,
Speaker 1: Like revisiting those things and even just sitting with him
Speaker 1: and talking one on one with him was different because
Speaker 1: we don't really do anything that's not just about the girls. Logistically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wondered about that, Like sitting on a couch
Speaker 3: with him in a room, just the two of you,
Speaker 3: eye contact and really processing what you went through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was weird. I felt a little spinny the
Speaker 1: whole rest of the day, spinny and exhaust It kind
Speaker 1: of took it out of me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I noticed at one point you got a
Speaker 3: little emotional, and do you remember when it was? It
Speaker 3: was that moment that you took responsibility, which I have
Speaker 3: to say was kind of my favorite thing about the
Speaker 3: whole interview is both of you were in a place
Speaker 3: where you could see your part more clearly. And I
Speaker 3: heard you start to talk about the times when you
Speaker 3: were sharing custody and that you understand that you had
Speaker 3: operated from a selfish place and you wish you hadn't,
Speaker 3: And I heard a catch in your throat.
Speaker 1: I think, I know that it's natural, you know, instinctual
Speaker 1: survival to operate from a place of selfishness in that
Speaker 1: situation that we were, that I was in that, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think they're going to always be emotions around
Speaker 1: that that time of my life, you know, because it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was defining. And I think that I don't know
Speaker 1: that I've ever really told him like, yeah, I could
Speaker 1: have done things better, I could have done things differently
Speaker 1: if I had known than what I know now, or
Speaker 1: if I was at a calmer, just emotional place, I
Speaker 1: could have been better. But there was a lot of
Speaker 1: wheat from yea, And I know that's probably me hearing
Speaker 1: it through my What do we used to say through
Speaker 1: my little red wagon? Remember that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Or you're you're funneling it through Yeah, it's your
Speaker 3: little red wagon.
Speaker 1: Wait, explain the little red wagon for a second.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the way I understand little red wagon
Speaker 3: is that's your deal and your issue and your problem,
Speaker 3: and you figure it out. Don't don't bring me into it,
Speaker 3: don't put me on it, don't project me.
Speaker 1: I had I had a therapist once. Not you tell
Speaker 1: me that we all carry around, we all pull around
Speaker 1: our little red wagon behind us, and it's full of
Speaker 1: all of our shit. It's it's our.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's our history. I guess I mean that probably
Speaker 3: that therapist meant it. I use a little bit differently,
Speaker 3: but that therapists probably meant like, that's your red wagon,
Speaker 3: it's in your history, you know. And there's this great
Speaker 3: saying if it's hysterical, it's historical. So you know, if
Speaker 3: you're if your emotions are way up, if you're being
Speaker 3: super reactive, you want to check yourself and be like,
Speaker 3: am I am I? Is this historical? Is this really about? It?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 1: It was hysterical, so I'm pretty sure it was historical.
Speaker 3: Back in the day, I wasn't hysterical.
Speaker 1: Recent No, No, I felt very calm, very centered, and
Speaker 1: we talked about things that we've never discussed until now.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I was just going to say. It's
Speaker 3: you've never discussed those things. You've never really owned those
Speaker 3: things with him, which I think was a beautiful thing
Speaker 3: for you to do and a gift to give to him.
Speaker 3: But I will say I want to say a couple
Speaker 3: of things that I got that I heard from Peter,
Speaker 3: that I heard that he has grown up too, the
Speaker 3: way he understood both of your family dynamics. Write what
Speaker 3: was modeled for you, right, how Bruno was with talking
Speaker 3: about his dad working all the time, and how he
Speaker 3: took that as a model and a q with your
Speaker 3: kids to speak well of you and highly of you
Speaker 3: even during the hard times and to kind of protect
Speaker 3: them from that. And I thought, you know what he does.
Speaker 3: He is thinking in sort of family lessons and multi
Speaker 3: generational transmission. You know, he's kind of thinking in those
Speaker 3: ways he's thought about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's true, because you have to be able
Speaker 1: to step outside of yourself enough to see that picture
Speaker 1: of why I am the way I am and why
Speaker 1: he is the way he is, and then why we
Speaker 1: were the way we were.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love the story you told about being
Speaker 3: at their house and queens, and like you know, he
Speaker 3: was saying, I just one thing I would disagree with
Speaker 3: him about is he kept saying, well, I just chose
Speaker 3: to be strong. And I kept thinking, every time I
Speaker 3: heard him say that, I wanted to say, strong is
Speaker 3: not an asset. Being emotional is actually a very strong thing.
Speaker 3: And when you talked about going to the back room
Speaker 3: and Bruna followed you in and said, don't cry, don't cry,
Speaker 3: and he said, oh, no, I need to cry, and
Speaker 3: I was so proud of you because I thought that
Speaker 3: is an evolved Jenny. That is a very emotionally intelligent Jenny.
Speaker 3: Because vulnerability is strength.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And some people just can't handle emotions. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: when they see someone having emotions, they shut down or
Speaker 1: they fly, flee whatever that they freeze, they fight, fight, flight, freeze. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so I ran into that on a couple of
Speaker 1: occasions with his beautiful our beautiful family, my extended family
Speaker 1: whom I grew to love so much. And I think
Speaker 1: that that was you know, I'm sure so many women
Speaker 1: or men that's something when you get a divorce and
Speaker 1: you split up families that have been together and grown
Speaker 1: together for a long time. It's so hard to let
Speaker 1: go of you're in laws or you're you know, my
Speaker 1: my sisters that I had, And for a while I
Speaker 1: really did have to just let them go and cut
Speaker 1: them off and know that that wasn't an option for
Speaker 1: me anymore to have any feelings around. But later, as
Speaker 1: time passed, now we're all able to see each other
Speaker 1: and go to, you know, have dinners together. And I
Speaker 1: love being able to be back with my in laws again,
Speaker 1: even though they're not my in laws, they're just acquaintances
Speaker 1: friends now.
Speaker 3: But it's a healing story what happened between you, because
Speaker 3: when you divorce, you don't just lose a spouse, right,
Speaker 3: you lose an extended family and the loss reverberates. So
Speaker 3: I love hearing you say that that you know, yes,
Speaker 3: time heals, and you both have come to a place
Speaker 3: where not only have you restitched together some of those relationships,
Speaker 3: you've also added people to the extended and blended family.
Speaker 3: And I really heard that Peter too, which I loved
Speaker 3: hearing him say, you know, he sees and knows that
Speaker 3: you're happy now. And that you know, Dave is wonderful,
Speaker 3: and that the girls have integrated both families into a
Speaker 3: large extended family. I mean, it's a healing story. This
Speaker 3: whole thing as hard as I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to give anybody the misconception that
Speaker 1: it was easy or it was quick or without a
Speaker 1: lot of pain, but we somehow got there. And I'm
Speaker 1: getting emotional again, like you know, like that that was
Speaker 1: a really hard time. And it wasn't just hard for me.
Speaker 1: It was really hard for the girls, and it was
Speaker 1: really hard for Peter.
Speaker 3: And for me for you seeing you in so much pain.
Speaker 3: It was so so painful, and I think it was
Speaker 3: one of the hardest breakups I've ever gone through.
Speaker 1: And I think today I was able to a little
Speaker 1: bit see because I, you know, in my story, as
Speaker 1: Peter mentioned, I didn't feel that he was that broken
Speaker 1: up by it, Like I didn't. I knew he was
Speaker 1: bummed about losing our family, but I never and I
Speaker 1: don't know that I still feel that he was torn
Speaker 1: up about losing me. I feel like it was more
Speaker 1: the family. But I thought I saw at least him
Speaker 1: acknowledging the pain that he did go through and that
Speaker 1: he had to work through. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I know he was in a lot of pain because
Speaker 3: he called me a lot during that time. And I
Speaker 3: didn't always share it with you because you know, he
Speaker 3: asked me not to, but he needed to kind of
Speaker 3: talk through stuff. But he was deeply broken up.
Speaker 1: How long ago was this even like we divorced in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, needs yeah, a long time ago. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I can still get like upset.
Speaker 3: But it's in your body. It was a trauma, right
Speaker 3: for everybody involved. And if you really go back there
Speaker 3: and you just really went back there with him, right,
Speaker 3: and you're and you're kicking it up, but that's good. See.
Speaker 3: And this is the other growth that I see in you,
Speaker 3: is that you would sort of want to cancel it
Speaker 3: out and not deal with what just happened. And you're
Speaker 3: feeling it and it's okay, right again, you're healing.
Speaker 1: This is more he I don't really want to feel it?
Speaker 3: Can I just letting yourself?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then also we can like we don't have to
Speaker 3: keep going deep either. But I'm proud of you for
Speaker 3: feeling the depth of it and the vulnerability of it
Speaker 3: and the loss of it, and also the beauty again
Speaker 3: of where you are today as a blended extended family. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I wondered. Also, uh, you know, towards the end he
Speaker 3: he said, you know, I think you asked him? What
Speaker 3: did what did you? What positive things have come out
Speaker 3: of our cope?
Speaker 1: I asked him, I was being cheeky and I asked him,
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part about being a co parent
Speaker 1: with me?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Of course, I was like so excited to hear his answer.
Speaker 3: But do you remember what he said? Well?
Speaker 1: He first, he kind of chuckled because he knows me
Speaker 1: and he knows that I was trying to get a
Speaker 1: compliment out of him. But he did what did I do?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Tell me more? He did say that he respects and
Speaker 1: values the fact that I instilled a great strength in
Speaker 1: our girls, and that that made me.
Speaker 3: Feel I could take that in.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I was also thinking that
Speaker 1: right there is the strength is the way the reason
Speaker 1: we couldn't stay together like you. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: like his current partner is not strong. We're just different strong, right,
Speaker 1: but my kind of strong didn't gell you know after
Speaker 1: a while, and that's maybe.
Speaker 3: Well and he said why, he said, I didn't have
Speaker 3: a backbone. I didn't have an identity. I didn't have
Speaker 3: a barely had a personality. I was he was twenty one.
Speaker 3: I fell with it.
Speaker 1: I totally see that, Like when you you just become
Speaker 1: something all of a sudden that you didn't see coming
Speaker 1: and it takes over your life, which our children absolutely
Speaker 1: did and our family and everything changed. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, I was like, why couldn't you have told
Speaker 1: me that? Like, why couldn't you have communicated that to
Speaker 1: me during that time? And and perhaps we could have
Speaker 1: grown forward together and found our voices individually. But I
Speaker 1: ultimately think that's what did happen, is that we did
Speaker 1: start to become more of our of our own, more
Speaker 1: assured in who we were, and it just wasn't matching up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And who knows if you could have heard it, Yeah,
Speaker 3: who knows if he could have said to you, like,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I know myself in this relationship.
Speaker 3: That might have felt threatening to you at that time
Speaker 3: in a way that it wouldn't at this age.
Speaker 1: It definitely would. That is a little triggering. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't I can't find myself in this relationship.
Speaker 3: You would have taken it as if somehow you had
Speaker 3: done that to him is.
Speaker 1: My absolutely because he explained it like he stepped into
Speaker 1: my big giant life, moved into my house, you know,
Speaker 1: and all those all those cards were sort of stacked
Speaker 1: against us in those traditional aspects. Yeah, I mean he
Speaker 1: is a traditional guy.
Speaker 3: Well in some ways, he's incredibly traditional Italian Catholic family.
Speaker 3: Everybody eats dinner together every night. One thing I kind
Speaker 3: of wish I had heard from him, and I think
Speaker 3: it's in line with what we're talking about right now,
Speaker 3: is that you know, he kept he said a couple
Speaker 3: times it felt like an arranged marriage or you know,
Speaker 3: he didn't have I couldn't find his voice in the marriage.
Speaker 3: He was kind of on the edge of talking about
Speaker 3: it as but he wasn't owning it. He wasn't saying
Speaker 3: I understand that was my respetility. I understand that it
Speaker 3: was my job to find myself that it wasn't because
Speaker 3: he kept saying, well, you had your life and you
Speaker 3: had your job, and you knew who you were, and
Speaker 3: he did when he talked about being codependent, he was
Speaker 3: getting there, but he could never quite say I understand
Speaker 3: now that it was my responsibility to ask for that
Speaker 3: to work towards that dig deep to you know, try
Speaker 3: to find myself inside.
Speaker 1: I just don't think at that young age, for both
Speaker 1: of us, we had the capacity or the knowledge or
Speaker 1: the tools to do any of that, and we were
Speaker 1: so busy raising those kids that there wasn't a lot
Speaker 1: of opportunity for that kind of gross that really needed
Speaker 1: to happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you kind of nailed it right
Speaker 3: there is that part of this whole show that you're
Speaker 3: doing around I Choose Me is tuning in slowing down,
Speaker 3: even if you're twenty one, even if you're twenty five,
Speaker 3: even if you have a big career, even if you
Speaker 3: have three kids, right, because that's exactly what we're talking about,
Speaker 3: is maybe you could have you know, or maybe you
Speaker 3: can impart that to people that are listening that it's
Speaker 3: not too late. In fact, you can start early choosing
Speaker 3: yourself so you know who you are, you know what
Speaker 3: you're bringing to a relationship, you can see what you
Speaker 3: want for dinner, what kind of furniture you want in
Speaker 3: the house. Just building on what Peter said in the podcast,
Speaker 3: it's never too early to start, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you just imparted that so thank you. I
Speaker 1: hope people heard that, and I do definitely try to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, tell the girls that now. I think, Wow,
Speaker 1: they're so far ahead of the game because they have
Speaker 1: these messages and they have, you know, someone who's really
Speaker 1: interested in helping them evolve earlier than I did, because
Speaker 1: I know for me, it took me a long time
Speaker 1: to get there, and there was so much pain in
Speaker 1: those years, those early years of me not knowing that
Speaker 1: I could choose myself, and then also not knowing that
Speaker 1: just because I'm choosing myself, it doesn't mean I'm not
Speaker 1: choosing the marriage or the partnership or the whatever.
Speaker 3: In fact, you are actually, by choosing yourself, choosing the
Speaker 3: marriage and the partnership.
Speaker 1: Right hopefully usually, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Entirely evidenced in the conversation you just had with Peter,
Speaker 3: because he's saying I didn't choose myself. I lost my
Speaker 3: way in this marriage and I ended up having to
Speaker 3: leave to find myself. So what we're saying is that, yeah,
Speaker 3: if you choose yourself, you find yourself.
Speaker 1: I always knew that, you know, I always knew that
Speaker 1: that he didn't have enough of a sense of who
Speaker 1: he was independent of me or independent of the girls,
Speaker 1: and I knew he was trying to figure that out,
Speaker 1: and I just I don't think I was gracious enough
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe patient enough or encouraging enough to
Speaker 1: let him do what he really need to do in
Speaker 1: his early twenties, mid twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So this brings me to a question. Makes
Speaker 3: me think about Dave, and it makes me think about
Speaker 3: what you may have learned out of that conversation in
Speaker 3: terms of the partner that you are today with the
Speaker 3: husband that you have today. Is there anything any takeaways
Speaker 3: for you or do you feel like you're enacting the
Speaker 3: things you wish you had done with Peter.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that it just I'm not throwing any
Speaker 1: shade whatsoever, but I think that in my current relationship,
Speaker 1: I'm able to express my own needs and wants and
Speaker 1: dislikes and likes without my partner being threatened by it
Speaker 1: or angered by it or disappointed, you know all that,
Speaker 1: you know, any kind of negative reaction. I think that
Speaker 1: it's just a different dynamic because, yeah, I have grown
Speaker 1: and I have learned things, and I have changed some things,
Speaker 1: but I'm still me. I'm still very straightforward, I'm still
Speaker 1: very direct, I'm still there's still times when I absolutely
Speaker 1: could say things a little bit kinder or nicer or
Speaker 1: more patient. I mean, we all lose our sometimes, we all,
Speaker 1: you know, go go back to those places, those ruts
Speaker 1: of the way we react. But I I also now
Speaker 1: treat myself a little bit more graciously, Like I allow
Speaker 1: myself to make mistakes sometimes, and Dave allows me to
Speaker 1: make some mistakes sometimes and we kind of talk about
Speaker 1: it and work through it, and you know, hopefully that
Speaker 1: continues to change the trajectory of things. But I feel
Speaker 1: like it's just a different dynamic, and it's it's so
Speaker 1: two different people, you know, Dave and Peter are such
Speaker 1: different people.
Speaker 3: Different ages. Yeah, right, Dave's you know, in his forties now. Also,
Speaker 3: I would say that you have awareness now that you
Speaker 3: didn't used to have, So you catch yourself right, and
Speaker 3: you're pretty quick to you know. It's kind of like
Speaker 3: the five second rule with food. You have your five
Speaker 3: second rule of like if you might if something comes
Speaker 3: up and out kind of quick, you'll be like, hey,
Speaker 3: I just did that thing right. You're you're much more
Speaker 3: aware and more transparent, and that creates a lot more
Speaker 3: space in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when you make a mess, When I make
Speaker 1: a mess, it's important to me to go back and
Speaker 1: clean it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: So this kind of felt like cleaning up a mess
Speaker 1: a little bit in a certain way.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like a closure is not
Speaker 3: the right word, But do you feel a little more
Speaker 3: complete or a little bit more integrated with this story? Now?
Speaker 1: I do. I had known that we were getting to
Speaker 1: the point where we could respect one another's differences, and
Speaker 1: it was feeling better and more cohesive. But it was
Speaker 1: nice to verbalize it, you know, and and hear him
Speaker 1: be in the same position you said before that you
Speaker 1: had there was something that you had wished you had
Speaker 1: heard him say. Was there something that you had wished
Speaker 1: you had heard me say?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: You know, I always like to like stop pointing the
Speaker 1: finger and start yeah love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question. And I
Speaker 3: was so proud of you, Jen, I was so proud
Speaker 3: of you.
Speaker 1: You're biased though, you just love me too much?
Speaker 3: I mean no, but look, I am biased that you'll
Speaker 3: love you too much out but I do believe me
Speaker 3: when you want to hear the truth, and I don't
Speaker 3: know no, In fact, I stopped listening to it, and
Speaker 3: I thought, that is a grown up, Jenny. I felt
Speaker 3: really proud of you and really happy for you. And
Speaker 3: really I heard the work. I heard the work you've done.
Speaker 3: I heard the growth, I heard the evolution. I honestly
Speaker 3: can't I can't think of anything in the moment right
Speaker 3: now that I wish i'd heard.
Speaker 1: I left feeling like I wish I had said more,
Speaker 1: because there was a there was a cadence and and
Speaker 1: a rhythm in our relationship together where he would do
Speaker 1: all the talking and I would just resort to just
Speaker 1: listening and agreeing and you know, or being in my
Speaker 1: mind disagreeing and getting all irritated by that, but never
Speaker 1: really communicating it. And there were a couple of points
Speaker 1: where I said, you know, I kind of disagree with
Speaker 1: you on that, or I think we're talking about two
Speaker 1: different things. And I feel like right afterwards there was
Speaker 1: something ignited in me. It was like an old feeling
Speaker 1: that came back of frustration and irritation that I wasn't
Speaker 1: getting to, you know, say what I needed to say,
Speaker 1: have my opinion. But again I had to let that
Speaker 1: go and not not really focus on that.
Speaker 3: You know, but you could also you don't have to
Speaker 3: just like let it go and push it down or
Speaker 3: push it away. You can ask yourself, right, you can.
Speaker 3: This is this kind of self parenting thing that we
Speaker 3: talk about. You can ask yourself, Okay, what was it
Speaker 3: that I wish I had said? And I'm gonna say
Speaker 3: it to myself and honor it, right, you don't have
Speaker 3: to say it to him.
Speaker 1: And also just it's not about pushing it down, but
Speaker 1: it's just about acknowledging it and just reminding myself that's
Speaker 1: not really that important.
Speaker 3: Right, So to acknowledging Okay, that's frustration, that's an old feeling,
Speaker 3: it's not really current. And is there anything else I
Speaker 3: need to do about it? Nope, I'm okay. I've just
Speaker 3: acknowledged it and it's and it kind of dissipated.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I really enjoyed our therapy session. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Do you have any parting words for me?
Speaker 3: You know, it's so funny. I'm checking in with myself
Speaker 3: right now, like, am I having any feelings about how
Speaker 3: well you're doing? And how I You don't need me
Speaker 3: as much as you as you used to, right, Like
Speaker 3: you know you have all the answers within you, and
Speaker 3: you've been listening. And I don't mean that need me
Speaker 3: as a friend. I know where we'll always be friends.
Speaker 3: But you are answering your own questions right, and you
Speaker 3: are listening to what's coming up, and you're not saying
Speaker 3: to me, what should I do in this moment? Or
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel?
Speaker 1: I still text you and say what should I do?
Speaker 1: How do I handle this? But you're like a backup
Speaker 1: to my instinct because now I'm able to listen to
Speaker 1: my gut and my instinct a lot more than I
Speaker 1: ever was before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'll always have that for me. So instead
Speaker 3: of me giving parting words or parting advice, what do
Speaker 3: you think as things might bubble up, as your daughters
Speaker 3: might have questions about the conversation, or Dave might any
Speaker 3: feelings at all, what do you think you might do
Speaker 3: That sort of is under the guise of like an
Speaker 3: I choose me moment or just processing those feelings or conversations.
Speaker 1: I mean, what comes to my mind immediately is that
Speaker 1: I'm just going to choose to listen to them and
Speaker 1: honor their perspective and respect it. You know, I can't
Speaker 1: change it, like anybody that has a reaction to our conversation.
Speaker 1: I can't change it or mold it into what I
Speaker 1: want it to be. You just need to let people
Speaker 1: have their feelings.
Speaker 3: There's an inner piece and an inner confidence to that answer,
Speaker 3: and I would apply it to your feelings too, right,
Speaker 3: not just your girls and your husband, but if feelings
Speaker 3: come up for you, just listen.
Speaker 1: It's just a feeling. Yeah, And I have another feeling,
Speaker 1: and it's that I really like your hair color right now,
Speaker 1: So keep it that way.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's all you've got it. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 3: I love you, Bye bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: In closing, I want to just thank Adele one more
Speaker 1: time for helping me move through that, and thank you
Speaker 1: Peter too for coming on and having this conversation with me.
Speaker 1: I just want to say I'm really proud of both
Speaker 1: of us for having this sit down. I heard some
Speaker 1: things that I think I really needed to hear. It
Speaker 1: felt stirring and settling at the same time, and I
Speaker 1: really do love that Peter was so vulnerable and honest.
Speaker 1: Please know that having that conversation and having it publicly
Speaker 1: was a choice we both made to maybe help other
Speaker 1: people going through turbulent times of their own. And I
Speaker 1: really do hope that by Peter and I opening up
Speaker 1: about the highs and the lows we've experienced in our
Speaker 1: go parenting journey, it will help some of you. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you a question. Are you holding on
Speaker 1: to old feelings, past angers, resentments, sadness? Maybe just think
Speaker 1: about that this week and if you find something there,
Speaker 1: I want to encourage you to dig deep and be
Speaker 1: brave and choose to release that feeling. That's all you
Speaker 1: have to do. Simply choose to let it go. I know,
Speaker 1: I know I just said simply, and you may be thinking, uh, yeah, Jenny,
Speaker 1: it's not that simple. I get it. But I promise you,
Speaker 1: no matter what your circumstances are, no matter how high
Speaker 1: the mountain in front of you looks, you can do this.
Speaker 1: You can choose to release old feelings, old habits that
Speaker 1: are holding you back, and you can choose to move forward.
Speaker 1: You have the power. Thank you for choosing to listen
Speaker 1: to I choose me. You can find all the links
Speaker 1: to our socials in the show notes, and I want
Speaker 1: you to know I love you. I'll be here next week.
Speaker 1: I hope you choose to be here.
Speaker 2: Too