1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as 3 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: always so much for joining us today. 4 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: We're turning the frogs Gay. 5 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: We are absolutely, we are absolutely over the moon to 6 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: introduce you to our man, our myth, our legend, our 7 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: super producer, mister Max Williams. 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 3: I am here and I am known to spontaneously combust 9 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 3: Is that what we're talking about today? Yeah? Sort of. 10 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I said we're turning the frogs Gap. Sorry, 11 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 4: that was really inappropriate outburst. I do want to apologize. 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 4: It's just the idea of spontaneous generation and the notion 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 4: that frogs can change sex and all of that stuff, 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 4: and it made me think of old Alex Jones. I 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 4: wonder how he's doing. He's okay, not well's love to 16 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 4: see it, I said. 17 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: So I am going by Ben Bollen. These days, you 18 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: are called Noel Brown. That makes this Ridiculous History. We 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: are talking, uh this week about a thing called spontaneous generation, 20 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: which is familiar to any fan of improvisation. It is 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: not to be confused with spontaneous combustion. Now, sorry Max, Yeah, no, Noel, 22 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: have you ever heard of the idea of spontaneous combustion. 23 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, just the idea that someone could inexplicably burst 24 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 4: into flames sounds pretty terrifying. 25 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 2: Like in that old NBA game where you get. 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: That he's on fire. 27 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, that requires badass balling, though this does not even 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 4: require that. This would just be like your walking around 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 4: and then boom, you're on fire. But not in a 30 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 4: cool dunk kind of way. 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, not with that he's on fire, which I love. 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 3: Uh smash the rim right. 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: Spontaneous combustion is not to be confused with spontaneous generation, 34 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: the idea that the presence of certain things in certain 35 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: locations can suddenly produce other things. But the issue is 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: non living things produce living organisms. 37 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 4: If you want to use Biblical terms, you could go 38 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 4: with beget right, yes, begets why? 39 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: Or what? Yeah? Like the worst part of the Torah 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 2: and the Bible. 41 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 4: For sure, the part with all the names and all 42 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 4: the gas gets a little confusing. But it is interesting though, 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, the discussion of 44 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 4: spontaneous generation as a concept sort of pre dating the 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 4: rise of modern science, is a conversation about the meaning 46 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 4: of life. 47 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: I agree with that, you know what I mean, yes, 48 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: I agree one hundred percent, because what we are going 49 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: to study here in ridiculous history this week is really 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: a noble aspiration, an attempt to understand the world. So 51 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: spontaneous generation argues that, for instance, this is one of 52 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: the most famous examples, there was an idea for much 53 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: of human history that you could take pieces of food, right, 54 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: bread or cheese, etc. You could wrap it in rags, 55 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: you could put it in a corner of a cellar, 56 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: and then boom, it would produce mice. 57 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: Produce mice. 58 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: And the thing that strikes me here this is a 59 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: discussion of the difference between causation and correlation. 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: Yes, right, yeah, you're one hundred percent on board. Someone 61 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: give that guy a. 62 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: Piece of cheese, a plushy and I have a piece 63 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: of cheese just for a treat. A little piece of 64 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 4: salami you should. 65 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 2: Get for a prize, you should get one of those 66 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: cheesehead hats, yeah, that people wear. 67 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 4: With a little with a rattue type mouse perched inside 68 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: of it telling me what to do, ordering me around. 69 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: So it might look silly. In twenty twenty four, the 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: idea of spontaneous generation, it's kind of like, I guess 71 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: The most recent analog is that if you leave two 72 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: microphones in an empty room, podcasters will naturally appear and 73 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: start a show. 74 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 4: Everybody knows that is you summon us. But we can't 75 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 4: stay away. We got to talk into those things, right, 76 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 4: They're like beetle juice, But you don't even have to 77 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 4: say beetle juice one from the show up next. 78 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: If you say it a third time, I swear you're 79 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: dead to me. 80 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: Guys Quist rules. Also, it sounds, it might sound ridiculous, 81 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: but until about the seventeen hundreds, this idea of spontaneous 82 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: generation the prevailing scientific explanation for the origin of life, Like, 83 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: why was this such a big deal? Where does it 84 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: come from? Why is it considered? And we are being 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: diplomatic here largely incorrect today. No, we have a great 86 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: research associate, doctor Z of Legend. Yeah, and he hipped 87 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: us to a fantastic exploration of this. And I think 88 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: that's our that's sort of our north star this week. 89 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: And what do you say? 90 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 4: We also make this our cold open and then when 91 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 4: we return, we will dive into these murky pseudo scientific waters. 92 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 2: And we have returned, folks. Spontaneous generation is and you 93 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: know for the time it was an excellent, very logical 94 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: explanation and Noel, as we see, this does not originate 95 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: from Western philosophers. If we go back to ancient China, gosh, 96 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: if we go back to Babylonia, we see a lot 97 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: of the same kind of if then something that's right. 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, and the source that you mentioned, I just want 99 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 4: to go ahead and sight right off the rip comes 100 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 4: from a publication with a lovely acronym SIM with maybe 101 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 4: a soft B at the end, which stands for the 102 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 4: news magazine of the Society of Industrial Microbiology and Biotechnology. 103 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: This comes from a fantastic paper. 104 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 4: I mean, it's really more than an article called Spontaneous 105 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 4: Generation an Origin of Life Concepts from Antiquity to the Presence. 106 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And look, folks, if you go back to 107 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: the Shong dynasty, which was around sixteen hundred to ten 108 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: fifty BCE, you will see earlier arguments for spontaneous generation. 109 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: You will also see ancient documents from the Indian subcontinent 110 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: that already kind of assume, Hey, where do these aphids 111 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: come from? Aphids the insects, they say, well, they're generated 112 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: from bamboo. And if you have too much soil or dirt, 113 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: or were being honest, poop around. Then flies will grow 114 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: from that naturally. 115 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 4: And you could see how that might be a logical conclusion. 116 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I had an issue in my 117 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 4: basement where there was blockage in my cleanouts and the 118 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 4: outside like that the tube that can get filled with 119 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 4: muck and debris during rainfall if you don't have it covered. 120 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 4: And idiotically, I did not have mine cover for a 121 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 4: time because the long guy broke the lid and I 122 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: did not realize it, and I didn't fix it, and 123 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 4: I had some sewage backing up into my garage. 124 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: Guy lawn, not long guy, a long. I just liked 125 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: the idea of the long guy. 126 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 4: He was a bit long. He was a bit of 127 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 4: a long boy. But I just when all of a 128 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: sudden there was this slight sewage issue. 129 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: It started to generate again. 130 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 4: Not knowing the science behind it, one might logically come 131 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: to this conclusion sewerflies. 132 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: They were never there before. 133 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 4: Now all of a sudden, there's a little bit of 134 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 4: poop in the basement and then there's sewerflies. One could 135 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 4: easily assume, without a little bit more information, that the 136 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 4: poop begats the sewerflies. 137 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 2: Begat the goat, the goat, and this is not an 138 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 2: original sin of science. Babylonian clay tablets that come from 139 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: eighteen hundred to six hundred BCE, they say, oh, look, guys, 140 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: we all know the score river mud makes worms. That's 141 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: the only reason worms came to be. And then if 142 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: you go to the Greek natural philosopher an Aximander of Militus, 143 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: he is the first recognized in the in the Western 144 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: discourse as a fan of spontaneous generation. 145 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 4: Uh. 146 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 2: And he had a book called on Nature where he 147 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: argued that life inevitably develops all of a sudden from 148 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 2: non living matter. 149 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: That's right. 150 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 4: It's interesting too because he was a big proponent of 151 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 4: these elemental I guess aspects of nature of the universe, 152 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 4: very very captain planet, earth, wind. 153 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: Fire, watch, or hearts. 154 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: He didn't have did have heart? 155 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 4: An Examander had had heart, I think as a person, 156 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 4: but not as one of the elements. He was dealing 157 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: mainly with water, earth, fire, and air, and considering these 158 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 4: to be these sort of primordial elements of the universe 159 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 4: and of the formation of life. And it reminds me 160 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 4: a lot of another school of pseudoscientific thought from antiquity, 161 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 4: the idea of humors, the different things in the body, 162 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 4: contained in the body that leads to various maladies, you know, 163 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 4: bile and then what have you, the different humors that 164 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 4: needed to be leeched out or bled out or whatever. 165 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 4: It's very, very similar in terms of like jumping to conclusions. 166 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a pupil who went with them in 167 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: speaking and going with people follow us. There as always joking. 168 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: Earlier there was not heart, but he had a heart 169 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: as a person. When he was proposing this elemental nature 170 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: of the universe and he saw a hierarchical organization of elements, 171 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 2: he said, look, the universe is primarily chaos. It's always 172 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 2: in chaotic motion. However, you have to also consider, in 173 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 2: addition to water, earth, fire, and air, there are intervene 174 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: factors wet and dry, hot and cold. He's trying to 175 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: explain the world as encountered, and he says, look, when 176 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: these things all interact, they generate a Ghostbusters sort of goop, 177 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 2: a terrestrial slime, primordial ooze right right right. And obviously 178 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: if you watch Ghostbusters too, it's a clear shout out 179 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: to the Greek natural philosopher an Aximander of Militis. He 180 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: has a pupil, no guy named an Aximinse, who proposes, look, 181 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: these elements are not created equal. Air brings life and 182 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: air in Doow's living creatures with motion and thought. 183 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 4: And then we have someone coming from a little bit 184 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 4: more of an artistic side of these sorts of conclusions, 185 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 4: Xenophones of Colophon, who is a poet and described fossil 186 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 4: imprints of plants and animals in his work and jumped 187 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 4: to the conclusion that the world had changed over time, 188 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 4: suggesting something akin to evolution. 189 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 3: Really, I mean like a cycle of life. 190 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: Yes, if we fast forward, then we see implidoples of Erigento, 191 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: who says, all right, this idea of spontaneous generation, they 192 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: called it generatio spontanea. This comes from the four elements. 193 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 2: And he says, earth, water, fire, and air have combined 194 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: in different ways, and the ways in which they combine 195 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: over time can yield either cohesion or chaos in different 196 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: life forms. 197 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. 198 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 4: We also hear from a bit of a more well 199 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 4: known figure in Aristotle, the Greek scientists and full and 200 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 4: just all around thinky type fellow who theorized a lot 201 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 4: about reproduction, about the creation of life, man, animals, et cetera. 202 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: But his colleague and successor you probably have also heard 203 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 4: of Theophrastus, maybe not quite as. 204 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 3: Big of a hit. 205 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 4: He was a little bit more focused in studying plants 206 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 4: and minerals. So while Aristotle in Historia Animalium and Degeneratition 207 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 4: Animalium posited that bivalves, which are I believe like mollusks, 208 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: you know, and snails were generated sprang forth from mud scallops, 209 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: on the other hand, from sand uh and. 210 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 3: Eels from earthworms. That's an interesting leap. 211 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: It's kind of like the idea, you know, you find 212 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: the thing where it exists, it must have been created 213 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: by that environment. 214 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 4: Well, and given the lack of psi antific technology and understanding, 215 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 4: they were doing the best they could with what they had. 216 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 4: And these are very intelligent people. And it is fascinating 217 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 4: to go through the great thinkers of antiquity, whether they 218 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 4: be philosophical or scientific. I think the philosophical thinkers tend 219 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 4: to hold a little more water and are able to 220 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: kind of be applied to the modern day a little 221 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 4: bit more because those types of things can be sort 222 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: of adapted, whereas a scientific theory saying that you know, 223 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 4: eels come from earthworms. Given enough time, study and technology 224 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,479 Speaker 4: can pretty easily be debunked, but philosophical. 225 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: Concepts can be a little bit more applicable. 226 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like that because when we're debating philosophical concepts, 227 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: we're looking at abstract interactions, right, We're looking at logic 228 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: and calculus, and those things are able to hold true 229 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: as almost said protean. But as you know, like platonic forms, right, 230 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: the X plus they equal z is a thing that 231 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: can be applied to multiple very specific iterations. And Aristotle's 232 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: view had a tremendous impact and supported a strong belief 233 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: in the concept of spontaneous generation that lasted for at 234 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: least two thousand years. Even if you fast forward you'll 235 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: see that. You'll see that notable architects and engineers are 236 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: citing Aristotle when they say, hey, we got to do 237 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: They didn't call it fun shue, but they were kind 238 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: of doing a func stue thing. They said, look, our 239 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: libraries have to face east so that they can get 240 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: the morning sun, because if we face the entrance to 241 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: the library on the south or the west, we'll get 242 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: the winds that worms that are bad for books. 243 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 4: Worms are the natural enemy of books. Everybody knows that. No, 244 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 4: I don't know about that. But it's interesting too when 245 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 4: you think about the facing of structures, Like my house, 246 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 4: for example, doesn't have particularly good access to morning lights. 247 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 4: So if I put plants in certain parts of the house, 248 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 4: they die. And I only just kind of took me 249 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 4: a minute to realize that, like, you really need to 250 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 4: find the part of the house that is facing the 251 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 4: morning sun. And then once I moved the plants to 252 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: that side of the house, life began to flourish. So again, 253 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: without knowing how this stuff works exactly, you're kind of 254 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 4: left with just sort of a cause and effect, or 255 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 4: left with just sort of trying things out and seeing 256 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 4: what works. And while facing the library in that direction, 257 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 4: maybe it didn't directly have an impact on worms being generated, 258 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 4: it might have had an impact on conditions that would 259 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 4: have been more suitable for the creation of worms for 260 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 4: them to flourish. 261 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: This brings us to one of the most important parts 262 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: of this week's exploration, Fellow ridiculous historians, the people of 263 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: the past. And I feel like I have to say 264 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: this all the time. The people of the past were 265 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: no more less less intelligent, nor were they more intelligent 266 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 2: than you and everyone you have met here. As we 267 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: record in twenty twenty four, humans haven't even figured out 268 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 2: the calendar. What we're looking at is some of the 269 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: great thinkers of the time trying to understand the world 270 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 2: around them, and honestly, with the resources they had, they 271 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 2: did a bang up job. What Aristotle's really talking about. 272 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: Another another fancier word for spontaneous generation would be abiogenesis, 273 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: the theoretical natural process by which life arises from non 274 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: living matter. And get this, folks, outside of the pan 275 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: spermia theory, no one has figured out to date how 276 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: life began as a thing on the planet Earth. So 277 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: lest we cast stones on philosophers of old, let's please 278 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: remember that those folks were the scientists of their day, 279 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: and abiogenesis is something that people wrestle with even now 280 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: in the modern evenings. We owe a lot to Arabic translations. 281 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,719 Speaker 2: For a long time, the Arabic speaking world was the 282 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: center of intellectualism in the Near East or Western Asia 283 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: and Western Europe or Europe overall. So it was they 284 00:18:54,080 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: who bought the idea of abiogenesis or spontaneous general to 285 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: Western Europe. Via Arabic translation, and it like if you 286 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: go back to the twelve hundreds, the thirteenth century, that's 287 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: when Latin translations of these ideas become available. And some 288 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: of your favorite historical figures were ten toes down on this. 289 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 4: That's right, even though Willie shakes himself, William Shakespeare mentions 290 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 4: the idea that snakes and crocodiles were in fact formed 291 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 4: from the you know, muddy soils of the of the 292 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 4: delta in the Nile. 293 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: Also our buddy Thomas A Tommy A Thomas Aquinas. It's 294 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: Thomas As, yes, yes, best known as the creator of Dessauni. 295 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 4: True, but yeah, a lot of this stuff sticks around 296 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 4: for a while. And because of the cultures that kind 297 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 4: of originated some of these thoughts and then also responsible 298 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 4: for spreading of everything from theology to science to philosophy, 299 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 4: and that stuff got picked up and telephoned its way 300 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 4: around the world. 301 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: And here we want to give a special shout out 302 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: to the scholar Edna Maki Nixon k nis k e 303 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: m who points out that we do have to exercise 304 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: empathy with people in these situations. Right, So we're about 305 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: in the twelve hundreds and this author says quote, it 306 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 2: is well for us to consider, however, that the theory 307 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: of spontaneous generation, it did not have to, in other words, 308 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: rise to the forefront. Anybody walked around, they heard about 309 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: spontaneous generation, and they would say, yeah, I've seen bad fruit, 310 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: I've seen bad meat. All of a sudden, now I 311 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 2: see flies, I see maggots. You know, how did I 312 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 2: not see it before? How did I see it now? 313 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: Obviously Lee, something is at play, and they don't have 314 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 2: germ theory, right, they don't have microscopes. 315 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 4: And so it's like I was saying with the I mean, 316 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 4: these are You're right to your point about microscopes. Things 317 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 4: are tiny in terms of the eggs and the tiny 318 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 4: creatures that lay the eggs. But you know, that's why 319 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 4: I mentioned the whole thing with the sewer flies. And 320 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 4: like my basement situation, if I was not, you know, 321 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 4: endowed with a minor amount of scientific you know know how, 322 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 4: which is not much to say. I'm not a scientist 323 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 4: by a long shot, but I know enough to know 324 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 4: that those flies did not come from the sewery stuff, 325 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 4: the poop, you know, I know that they are attracted 326 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 4: to those types of conditions and that is what allows 327 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 4: them to flourish through reproduction, you. 328 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: Know, in terms of laying of eggs and then hatching 329 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 3: of eggs. 330 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: And so fast forward further. Let's get to you know, 331 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 2: let's get to like the sixteenth century or so. We 332 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 2: see that a lot of folks in Europe, a lot 333 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: of boffins are picking up on this idea and they 334 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 2: they absolutely dig it. That's a dig for Worm's joke. 335 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: It'll be funnier in our weird sports episode. 336 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: A hand dug American worm. 337 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, there's a guy named van Helmont. He's a 338 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: Belgian physician and he was actually pretty good at chemistry. 339 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: He got past the rubicon of when alchemy transforms into chemistry. 340 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: And this guy, this is the example is said in 341 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 2: earlier he totally believes. Again he's one of the smartest 342 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 2: people in his area at the time. He totally believes 343 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: that he has seen rats spontaneously generate from bags of 344 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: grains and old rags. And then we have to also 345 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: mention not everybody cottoned to this prevailing theory of the time. 346 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: There were a lot of folks who said, hang on, 347 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: you can't just say that things created stuff as you 348 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 2: were saying earlier, correlation is not causation. Right, Just because 349 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 2: there are Elvis impersonators in Las Vegas, it doesn't mean 350 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 2: that someone singing, Ah, what's the good Love Me Tenders? 351 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: Ago when Yeah, it doesn't mean that every time someone 352 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: in a karaoke bar and Las Vegas sings love Me 353 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 2: Tender and Elvis impersonator is born. This is not my 354 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: best comparison, but I I think it holds. Yeah, I do. 355 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 2: I do. 356 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 4: And and what also holds is that at this time 357 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 4: there were advances. There were beginning to be advances, if 358 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 4: not necessarily in like the kind of technology that we 359 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 4: think of today in terms of lab tech, but in 360 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 4: the observations and ability to kind of put some puzzle 361 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: pieces together, at least beginning to there were many more 362 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 4: scientists that were accepting theories that leaned much more on 363 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 4: the idea of propagation rather than spontaneous generation, the idea 364 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 4: that the egg or sperm contained the abilities within to 365 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 4: form new individuals which were able to grow given the 366 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 4: proper circumstances. 367 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where we see the noble story 368 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: of the humans writ large, because when we're talking about 369 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: why spontaneous generation as a theory is not currently accepted 370 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 2: as fact. What we're really doing is exploring the evolution 371 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: of how to ask questions scientific inquiry. Today we call 372 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 2: it the scientific method. 373 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 3: So what's the vast forward? Just a bit more? 374 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 4: Like you said, been to Francisco Ready, who was a 375 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 4: court physician to the Grand Duke of Tuscany, A fellow 376 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 4: by the name of Ferdinand Medici of the Mediici Medachis. 377 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 3: You may have heard of. 378 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 4: He was also a member of the Academy of Experiments 379 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 4: in Florence, Italy. We know, Italy was responsible for this 380 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 4: Enlightenment kind of thinking, you know, which was a flourishing 381 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 4: of just thought that created, you know, some of the 382 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 4: greatest advances in literature, science, philosophy. 383 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: This academy was a big part of that. They'd been 384 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 3: organized by a. 385 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 4: Group of Galileo Galiles former students, and it was very 386 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 4: much a signpost of this new type of enlightenment thinking. 387 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 4: And Ready was a big conductor of some very very 388 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 4: well thought out and scientifically rigorous etymological studies that he 389 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 4: chronicles in a book called Experiments on the Generation of Insects. 390 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: In this work he. 391 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 4: Used a very rigorous form of scientific method in order 392 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 4: to conduct his experiments, which today would be looked at 393 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 4: as being pretty modern. And just want to call back 394 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 4: to the source that Ben mentioned earlier, Eastern Illinois University, 395 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 4: the Keep and a paper titled The Fallen Rise of 396 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 4: Spontaneous Generation Theory by Edna Mackie Kniskern. 397 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 2: And this was, or this, i should say, paved the 398 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 2: way for what we call the scientific method today. So 399 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 2: everybody put your grade school boffen had on and realize, please, 400 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: this was bleeding edge science and philosophy. And when you 401 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 2: get to the when you get to the top tier 402 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: of science and philosophy, there's a heck of a Venn diagram. 403 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: So no, what say we round, Robin? This will give 404 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: you the steps. Here's the first one. Let's say, Max, 405 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 2: can we get some like I'm figuring stuff out in 406 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: medieval Europe? 407 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 3: Perfect? All right? 408 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: So that's our you know, yeah, thank you for the loot, 409 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: dear Max. Our first step is observation, what there are 410 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 2: flies around meat caucuses at the butcher shop? 411 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the old z butcher shop. This is the 412 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 4: first step. You have observed something with thine own eyes, 413 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 4: which then lead to the formation in thy mind palace 414 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 4: of a question. Which is where do the flies come from? 415 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 4: Does rotting needs turn into or produce the flies? Not 416 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 4: going to keep his voice up for the whole round robin, 417 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 4: but I think, yeah, there you go. 418 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: And there there are seven steps, is boff and still 419 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 2: the third wood Max, let me get a turn in 420 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: the music. The old hypothesis or HYPOTHESI they might have called, right, sure, yeah, 421 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: the rotten meat does not turn into flies. It seems 422 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: to be only flies can make more flies. And so 423 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: we've seen what's happening. We asked ourselves why we said, 424 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: maybe we have an answer. How do we test the answer? 425 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 4: So I guess I've always kind of thought, is the 426 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 4: hypothesis and the prediction is sort of being one and 427 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 4: the same, But here they are kind of listed as 428 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 4: two different steps, which I think makes sense. The hypothesis 429 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 4: is that rotten meat doesn't turn into flies, only flies 430 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 4: can make more flies, like we said, so that leads 431 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 4: us to a prediction that would be the thing that 432 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 4: can be tested. The prediction being if meat cannot turn 433 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 4: into flies, rotting meat in a sealed fly proof he 434 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: should not produce flies or maggots. 435 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: And now so we're at four. So now we get 436 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: to number five, which is how do we test our hypothesis? 437 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: How do we test our prediction? Well, we need a trial, right, 438 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: and so what we would do here and I'm not 439 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: going to do the voice because I really respect this part. 440 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 2: What we do here is we create two different situations. 441 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: If we assume that wide mouthed jars each having a 442 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: piece of meat, are you know if we if we 443 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: keep those together and we make everything the same, they're 444 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: stored in the same place. The only difference is there 445 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: is one variable. Our control group will be the jars 446 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: of meat without lids. This means the meat is exposed 447 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 2: to whatever whatever is happening in the butchery. And then 448 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: our experimental group, the part where we test our hypothesis, 449 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: means that we have a couple of jars that are 450 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: sealed up tight with lids. And then if we want 451 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 2: to get super cool with it, we have another experimental group. 452 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 3: We try a middle ground. 453 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: Right, we make a permeable or a porous somewhat porous lid. 454 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: We just place gauze or cheese cloth. They made it. 455 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: They may have called it over there, so that's fine. 456 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: We start to test our questions and then we try 457 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: to replicate our questions. And then and I know, I know, 458 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: I know, I know at least twelve of you, fellow 459 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: ridiculous historians are excited about this part. We figure out 460 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 2: the results. 461 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, through the study of data sets that are generated 462 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 4: by each of these different groups of experiments, these different trials. 463 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 4: So the what we're looking for, of course, are the 464 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 4: presence or absence of flies and maggots that are related 465 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 4: to each of these different scenarios, whether it be the 466 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 4: open to the air jars, the ones that are air tight, 467 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 4: or the ones with a permeable piece of some kind 468 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 4: of cloth on top. So, in the controlled group of jars, 469 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: which would be the wide open ones, flies can be 470 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 4: observed visually entering the jars. Then, given a little bit 471 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 4: of time, one could observe maggots beginning to wriggle around 472 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 4: in there, followed by more flies than in the gauze 473 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 4: covered jars. 474 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: No flies were. 475 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 4: Seen in the jars, but they are observed hanging around 476 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 4: on the outside because they smell that sweet, sweet funk 477 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 4: of decaying meat. 478 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, as any slip knot fan knows, right. This leads 479 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: us all to our very favorite part conclusions, only flies 480 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: can make more flies. We see that as you were 481 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: pointing out nol with an aggregation. In comparison of data, 482 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: the uncovered jars seem to produce more flies. Our conclusion 483 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 2: being that flies from somewhere else came inside without that 484 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 2: barrier and laid eggs on the meat. Maggots hatch from 485 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: those eggs that the flies have made, and they grow 486 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: into more adult flies. Only flies can make more flies. 487 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: The adult flies lay eggs on the gauze, the porous 488 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: border of those jars, and those eggs are small enough 489 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 2: to drop through your cheesecloth or what have you, onto 490 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: the meat. But in the sealed jars, none of those 491 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: variables can enter, and so you don't see spontaneous generation. 492 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 2: This is the scientific method seven steps. As you said, 493 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: we separated them out a bit to be nerdy. We 494 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: hope that everybody listening here approves of nerdom. 495 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,239 Speaker 3: I would hope, so gosh, if not, then what are 496 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: you doing here? But no, please stay. 497 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 4: But yeah, this led to a sea change you know, 498 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 4: in public perception of what led to the creation of life, 499 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 4: But it wasn't across the board. This was a massive 500 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 4: shift in the way people thought about the generation of 501 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 4: quote unquote larger organisms you know, and I know flies 502 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 4: are not exactly large, but they're certainly larger than bacterium, 503 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 4: for example. 504 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: Bro Flies are pretty much tied you to smaller organism's right, right, Yeah, exactly, 505 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,239 Speaker 2: So there was still a lot of thinking while it 506 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: had this thinking had been refined through the scientific method 507 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 2: and also, of course, with the. 508 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 4: Creation of the innovation of the microscope in the sixteen hundreds, 509 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 4: people began to observe all sorts of other, much more 510 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 4: microscopic forms of life, and for a time didn't know 511 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 4: where the hell they were coming from because they could 512 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 4: not observe what had been observed by the naked eye 513 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 4: in this previous experiment with the mean. 514 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: And the foy. 515 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: I saw some gross stuff. 516 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Noel, can you do us as solid and 517 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: name some of these new very small life forms that 518 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 2: were discovered. 519 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeast, yeasty life forms, fungi, bacteria, like I mentioned, protists, 520 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: Oh okay. 521 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love I love the protests And yeah, It's true. 522 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 4: Despite the absolute blast forward in scientific thinking and innovation 523 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 4: and observation, there just wasn't yet, even with some of 524 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 4: these new technologies, the ability to really get a hold 525 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 4: on where these. 526 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 3: Things were coming from. 527 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 4: So spontaneous generation kind of reared its head again with 528 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 4: a lot of people assuming that things like molds and 529 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 4: fungi and what have you actually sprang forth from things 530 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 4: like spoiled food. Spoiled broth, for example, is one that's 531 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 4: mentioned in another great piece of work from Northern Arizona 532 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 4: University that doctor Z found for us. 533 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 2: Pronounced now do you, of course ye, yes, as is known. 534 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: This is where we're meeting Jean Baptiste Lamark, who proposed 535 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 2: his own theory of evolution, which was a I would 536 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: say it was an attempt to kind of do a 537 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: DJ Khalid level remix of scientific thought at the time 538 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 2: to reconcile these various ideas. And he said, if you 539 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 2: he is a predecessor of Darwin. Darwin's great discoveries right 540 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: sailing on the Beagle where he ate every animal and 541 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 2: he encountered that is the first shout out to Jack 542 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 2: O'Brien over at Daily Zeitgeist. So our buddy Lamark says, look, 543 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 2: all things strive for perfection, and as they become closer 544 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: to perfect new organisms spontaneously arrive to do what corporate 545 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 2: America will call backfill. So if yeah, so if the 546 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 2: you know, let's say a particular small multicellular organism grows 547 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 2: into something larger than a new organism will spontaneously arrive 548 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 2: to keep that lion king circle of life going. 549 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 3: Ah. So yeah, exactly. 550 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 4: And I don't think we mentioned this at the top, 551 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 4: but Aristotle is still relevant to a lot of these newer, 552 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 4: kind of more modern thinkers because while he was a 553 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 4: big proponent of spontaneous generation, Aristotle, there were parts of 554 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 4: his research and thinking that he laid out in various 555 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 4: works that did acknowledge sexual reproduction. 556 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, Aristotle was Aristotle was not tyrannical 557 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 2: in thought. Aristotle was kind of his whole deal, right 558 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 2: like that. He was the guy who came in and 559 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 2: way before podcast and propagandists became problematic with this. He 560 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 2: was a good faith asker saying I'm just asking questions, 561 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like what if this? And 562 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: then he would sometimes contradict himself and he would say, well, 563 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 2: also what if this, Either of these things could be true. 564 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what is true. However, this is as 565 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 2: we said, and we always celebrate this a two part episode, correct, oh. 566 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 3: A preemptive two part episode. 567 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 4: And you mentioned Jean Baptiste Lamark and his you know, 568 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 4: kind of beginnings of theories of evolution, and he really 569 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 4: was trying to kind of reconcile some of his thinking 570 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 4: with Aristotle's work contained in Scala Nature that he you know, 571 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 4: where he kind of laid out this notion of like 572 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 4: striving for perfection, which is of course a big part 573 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 4: of evolution, the idea of survival of the fittest, about 574 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 4: finding the best form, the best ultimate version of a 575 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 4: thing over time, and then all of the things that 576 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 4: kind of filled in. 577 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 3: Those spaces underneath. 578 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 4: So I do think you're right on the money, Ben, 579 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 4: that we wrap up part one of this episode, this 580 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 4: very science science y episode of ridiculous history, and offer 581 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 4: our huge thanks and shout out to doctor Z Research 582 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 4: Associate extraordinaire on this two part journey. 583 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 2: Yes, doctor Z personal thanks to you, sir, hope you 584 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 2: are doing well. Big big thanks of course, as well 585 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 2: to super producer mister Max Williams our composer Alex Williams, 586 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 2: who has been sending some updates from the road. I 587 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 2: don't know, it might be cool to have Alex back 588 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 2: on the show too. 589 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 3: He's got one hundred percent. 590 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 4: She does he's got some some hot takes that Alex 591 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 4: Williams love him dearly. 592 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 2: Big big thanks, of course to our favorite mad scientist, 593 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 2: Jonathan Strickland aka the quizt and obviously Noel, big thanks 594 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 2: to brother Dan soft. 595 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 3: It gota love, good old bds. 596 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 2: Who else, who else? Who else? 597 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 4: Oh geez, of course Christoph frasciotis, and he's Jeff COEs 598 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 4: here in spirit, aj Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler. We already 599 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 4: mentioned our boy the Quizzer. Long may he rain in infamy. 600 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 2: Oh and I'll say something that might be a hot take, 601 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 2: fellow ridiculous historians in academia. Don't want to get you mad, 602 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 2: but big big thanks to everyone throughout history who was 603 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 2: trying to just figure stuff. 604 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 3: Out doing their best. 605 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: You know, And look, any time you encounter something in 606 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 2: your life that is an invention that you think is cool, 607 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 2: you should also thank the people who came before. They're 608 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 2: a big deal. They got a a lot of stuff wrong, 609 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 2: but they're a big deal. 610 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 4: Standing on the shoulders of imperfect giants. 611 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 3: I think it's really the only way to fly. 612 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 4: And you know, I appreciate you mentioning that, Ben, And 613 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 4: in that spirit, we will see you next time, folks. 614 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 615 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.