1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lambert, joined today by Sarah Downy. Hey. Sarah, Hey, Katie, 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: Since you're the Green editor, I thought this was a 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: good question for you. Did climate change create a mysterious 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: civilization five thousand years ago? We think it did, and 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: we think that because of some fish bones we found 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: in a desert. Yeah, so let's start with what they 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: did find. In two thousand one, archaeologists in the Norte 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Chico region of Peru found fish bones in a desert 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: along with these giant stone mountains, but not that giant. 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: If you were just going on the size of the 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: mounds alone, they don't seem super impressive. They're no more 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: than eighty five ft tall. But still there's something important 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: out them. And what would that be, Sah. They're really 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: really old, being older than the Pyramids, old older than 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: the Pyramids, much older than any of the Incan or 18 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: Mayan pyramids too, at least by a thousand years. So 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: it could be that we've found the first complex civilization 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: in the America's period. So let's talk a little bit 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: more about what these archaeologists found and why it matters. 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: So we've got these massive man made structures, not too massive, 23 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: but you know, massive seashells and fish bones in the 24 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: middle of a desert. Some anthropomorphic figurines which were found 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: in the city, and circular plazas and houses built from adobe, wooden, poles, cane, 26 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: and mud. But the seashells and fish bones are the 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: big part of the mystery here. We're really far away 28 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: from water, there's no vegetation. It's ten miles from the ocean. 29 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: So how did they get there? Right? And why would 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: there be a civilization around a place where there is 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: no water and no vegetation and we are calls it 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: a moonscape. That is a good and if you look 33 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: at pictures, if you if you look up north to 34 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: Chico online, you'll see it does not look like it's 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: part of this world. The theory goes that fishermen on 36 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: the coast of Peru survived on the sea and they 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: were hunter gatherers. And I think of hunter gatherers, I 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: usually think of people picking berries, but or caveman hunting 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: mammoth well exactly, but you can also be the kind 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: of hunter gatherer that gathers up clams and muscles on 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: the seaside of Peru. But in three thousand BC, their 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: whole lifestyle changed, and that's because the El Nino regular 43 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: weather event started to shift up a little. El Nino 44 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: brings heavy rains and warms up the ocean around South America, 45 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: and it's a cyclical event. It usually is tied to 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: the hurricane season and happens every couple of years. But 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: when the El Neno cycles started picking up, it started 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: to really mess with the climate of North Chico or 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: the coastal area right there. There was a lot more 50 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: rain and the ocean temperature went up, which was the 51 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: kicker because all the cold water fish left and the 52 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: clams and muscles died, and there was also a lot 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: of rain and flooding. So they decided to move inland, 54 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: being the enterprising hunter gatherers that they were. But that 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: changed everything. So climate change had made this area, the 56 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: Nartichico area, into something more fertile because there was so 57 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: much more rain. Yeah, and it was easy to irrigate. 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: People actually still have simple irrigation systems in the area. 59 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: So they learned how to irrigate. They started cultivating crops 60 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: like squash, cotton, beans, and avocados, and they traded them 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: for fish like anchovies with the coastal people, and so 62 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: that's how we ended up with fish bones in the 63 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: middle of the desert. Mystery once solved. Yeah, it was 64 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: a symbiotic relationship between the fisherman who remained at the 65 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: coast and the people living in these centralized cities. Because 66 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: they were growing cotton weaving nuts, they could trade those 67 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: to the fishermen they in return would get fish, and 68 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: it all worked out and it was the start of 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: civilization in the Americas, which is a pretty big accomplishment. 70 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: Were these little hunter gatherers in Peru. So they've got 71 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: flourishing trade and they start building and because of this 72 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: kind of food production and trade, they need all more 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: centralized society, so they all start building houses and developing 74 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: a government and possibly even developing an organized religion, which 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: is why we ended up with those little anthropomorphic figurines. 76 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: Not to mention building these mounds, which are they're actually 77 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: described as birthday cakes. Yeah, big stone birthday ye kind 78 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: of like the side of that. Uh. They covered them 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: in plaster and would paint them colors and probably had 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: a religion and we're had all the hallmarks of civilization 81 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: except a few, right, right, They didn't The things that 82 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: the archaeologists didn't find where perhaps more significant almost They 83 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: didn't find pottery. They didn't find weapons or art or 84 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: dependency on a staple grain crop. The lack of ceramics 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: seems especially odd to me that you could have the 86 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: technology to build these enormous mounds. They actually wove baskets 87 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: out of reads to carry these huge loads of rocks 88 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: and plaster to cover them, and it took a lot 89 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: of energy, and they were constantly remodeling and replastering things. 90 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: So it wasn't like they just built them and that 91 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: was the end of it. It was an ongoing labor 92 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: of love. It seems like ceramics would be born from that. 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: But they haven't found a single shard of pottery anywhere. 94 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: And because of that, some people say you wouldn't consider 95 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: it a civilization at all, because ceramics is one of 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: the hallmarks of a civilization, as well as urbanization, you know, 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: having urban centers, which this one maybe did and maybe didn't. 98 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: It had meeting they did, which is part of the 99 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: reason for those those sunken plazas. Um They also might 100 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: have had a proto writing system called quiepoo, which is 101 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: it looks like not on strings basically could have just 102 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: been a mnemonic device, but something some kind of rudimentary 103 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: writing perhaps, And they might have also had music. Several 104 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: flutes have been found. And we have a great quote 105 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: from Professor Winifred Creamer, who is an anthropologist at Northern 106 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: Illinois University, and she said, the people who built the 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: first of these structures had no model to go by, 108 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: no precedent to use in building a monument. It's a 109 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: bit like deciding to build a functioning spaceship in your 110 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: backyard and succeeding. I like that. I love that because, seriously, 111 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: think about it, you had absolutely no model. This is 112 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: the very start of civilization, seeing the pyramids and seeing 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: the Incan in mind pyramids. So these little hills don't 114 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: look like much to our eyes, but imagine if you'd 115 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: never seen something like that. And the other cool thing 116 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: is that, of course this is the exact place where 117 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: we stopped being hunter gatherers and started forming into societies. 118 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: And the civilization may have spawned other Andean cultures, and 119 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: it seems like some of those traditions went out across 120 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: South America as well, definitely, but like most civilizations, this 121 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: did not last forever. They were around for about a 122 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: thousand years before there was another shift in climate that 123 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: made irrigation too difficult, so they might have abandoned their 124 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: little complex of cities, but they did adapt, so presumably 125 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: these people lived on to start up new civilizations or 126 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: at least new communities. Right, And they're not the only 127 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: civilization that was affected by this sort of climate shift. 128 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: Some people say that China's Tang dynasty, which fell in 129 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: nine oh seven a d may have been also because 130 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: of climate shift, which altered the monsoon season. Yeah, and 131 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: around the same time, oddly enough, on the other side 132 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: of the world, the Mayan civilization started to fall, and 133 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: people have linked that to a lot of different things. 134 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: By the end of the Mayan civilization, they were in 135 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: big trouble for many reasons, but the point one comes. Yeah, 136 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: they had some problems by then, but a series of 137 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: droughts might have been what detimin. They were already maxed 138 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: out for the food they could grow for the size 139 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: of their population, and you have a drought for a 140 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: few years and you don't know when it's going to end. 141 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: That's it. When that was the point in agriculture based 142 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: society in the face of those kinds of changes, has 143 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: to adapt where it ends. So it's an interesting thing 144 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: to think about in the face of water shortages, just 145 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: the ways of civilization has to adapt to move on. 146 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: And that's the final word from our green So if 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: you'd like to check out the article did climate change 148 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: create a mysterious civilization you five thousand years ago? And 149 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: also check out the Stuffy Misston History Class blog and 150 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: Sarah's Green blog, go to our homepage at www dot 151 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. For more on this and 152 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. 153 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think, send an email to 154 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com and be sure 155 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: to check out the Stuff You mist in History Class 156 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: blog on the how stuff works dot com homepage