1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Annie and you're listening to Stuff Mom 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: Never told you. And today we're joined by a guest 3 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: co host, Lauren Volgal Bomb. Hello. That's me, Hi Lauren, Hi, 4 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. Yeah anytime, I mean maybe not 5 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: literally anytime, because I already do a lot of other things, Yes, 6 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: including a show, a little show you may have heard 7 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: of that we co host together once, food Stuff. It 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: is now called Savor Savor Savor, and just re launched 9 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: last week. We were trawling or eating lots of food, 10 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: drinking lots of drinks, a lot of people, talking to 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: some amazing people, and incorporating clips from those interviews into 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: our stories about different foods and food cultures. So it's 13 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: pretty I think it's okay. Yeah, we're not biased. No no, 14 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: And Lauren, has you've been on the show before? Have 15 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: you not? I have back up back when Kristen and 16 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: Caroline where where the hosts. I was on an episode 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: about Buffy the Vampire Slayer because I bugged them for 18 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: years about doing an episode about Buffy. Well, you succeeded. 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: It was a long, hard fought campaign, but it was 20 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: you got with you for his end. And that's one 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted you to come on this 22 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: week to fill in for Bridget because, um, you like horror. 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: I like horror. Oh yeah, yeah. We talked about this 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: all the time. We do, we do. Um and I 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: feel like real life has started to feel a little 26 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: horror movie esque only just started. Yes, Um, so we 27 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: originally today we were going to talk about and we 28 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: are going to talk about the trope of in horror movies, 29 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: why don't people believe women? And it turned into that, 30 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: but also so much real life stuff. Yeah. I'm guessing 31 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: that some of you have seen or heard the phrase 32 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: believe women being tossed around lately. Yeah, so there's that 33 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: whole trend believe women turning on Twitter in response to 34 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: the accusations of assault made against Supreme Court Justice nominee 35 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: Brett Kevinaugh and the complete dismissal of these accusations are 36 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: even like just don't like people don't care, um in 37 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of cases. Um, And you've probably all 38 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: heard these numbers before, but I think they're worth repeating. 39 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: Sexual assault is all too common. Some estimates say one 40 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: in five women, and it's more common than we think 41 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: in men as well. We don't hear about that as often, 42 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: but it should be part of the conversation. Absolutely, and 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: only somewhere from two to eight percent of sexual assault 44 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: Act stations are found to be false, But the conversations 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: we have around this would suggest that false accusations just 46 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: happened all of the time. Yeah. Um, And I've been 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: thinking a lot about this, and I think even outside 48 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: of sexual assault, people just don't believe women. And I 49 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: can think of so many examples in my life where 50 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: I've said something like, hey, I like this song and 51 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: been interrogated about it by a dude as if that 52 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: there's no way you know this song, you like this song? 53 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: You've never heard that song? Ye? What? In like a 54 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: fake geek girl way, like like you were trying to 55 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: impress them by saying that. Yeah. And it was weird 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking of one particular instance, and it got 57 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: to the point where another guy who I didn't know 58 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: very well stepped in the conversation and said, Dude, she 59 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: said she likes it. I don't. I don't know what 60 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: was going on. It wasn't even that quote manly of 61 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: a thing. In fact, I would argue that that's more 62 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: tradition fominine type music. But whatever, Another example is how 63 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm happy single people. That's impossible. You're just you don't 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about, young lady. You're just miserably. 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: You don't know how to recognize it yet, but you'll 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: you'll understand. Um. And I found a lot of studies 67 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: researching this that show that managers are less likely to 68 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: believe women who ask for flex time as compared to men. 69 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: They think their priorities are divided with families. It couldn't be, 70 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: because they're they're human people. The only men are people. 71 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: Women are women. That's right, that's right. That's the heart 72 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: of this whole thing. Have you ever experienced something like this? Jeez, 73 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: it feels like about once a week. Uh. My favorite 74 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: is along the fake geek girl thing when when guys, 75 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: guys don't usually argue with me about it, but um, 76 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: but I get this response from dude. Sometimes they're shocked 77 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: beyond belief that I like this geeky thing that they 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: also like. They're like, well, but I'm like well but 79 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: what They're like, well be your girl, and I'm like yes, 80 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: And I like Batman. I don't know why everyone likes Batman. 81 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: It's it's strange. And another example and thinking about this 82 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: this morning got me so mad. Um I have a 83 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: bunch of intolerances to a bunch of different foods, well, peppers, onion, 84 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: stuff like that, which I discovered by getting like really 85 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: sick repeatedly from eating dishes that contain even just a 86 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: little bit of those things, and kind of like process 87 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: of elimination no pun intended, figuring out that it's those 88 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: specific foods. Um and Yeah, I had a dude argue 89 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: with me about how just just a little bit can't 90 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: possibly hurt you. It can't possibly and al was like, 91 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: what do I need to record bathroom noises and send 92 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: them to you? Like I don't you probably not talk 93 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: to you again. That's a long way to get to 94 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: solve the problem. Yeah, this is true. Yeah, I've mentioned 95 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: before on this show that, um I I often get 96 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: the fake gyk girl thing all of the time, and 97 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: then once you finally have proven yourself, then it's like 98 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: suddenly they're super attracted to me, at least in my case. 99 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: And I'm like, so your qualifications are you want someone 100 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: who's fluent and and marvel and that is kind of 101 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: a reflection of you. Well, that's for a different episode. 102 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: We also talked about this, this whole thing of not 103 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: believing women in our episode on women in pain, how 104 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: the medical community consistently dismisses women who who come and 105 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 1: try to get helps for pain specifically, and it takes 106 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: so much longer to get a diagnosis for traditionally women's 107 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: um issues, which is really frustrating. Oh. Absolutely, And and 108 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: this also ties into an intersectional issue. The medical community 109 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: also doesn't believe people of color pretty frequently. Studies have 110 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: shown that implicit biases lead doctors to prescribe fewer painkillers 111 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: and less aggressive treatments to black patients than white patients, 112 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: even when the patients present the exact same symptoms. So 113 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of issues there. There's a lot 114 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: of stuff that we need to work on. But in 115 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to try to use horror movies 116 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: as a semi fun lens to tackle a very depressing 117 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: and frustrating issue gay yeah um. Like we talked about 118 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: in our final Girl episode, horror movies are really great 119 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: reflections of the anxieties we have as a society, or 120 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: or the observations are hang ups. Just in general, I 121 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: think horror movies are a great way to sort of 122 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: test out where we are, do a little, a little, yeah, 123 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: to see to see see what's going on in the 124 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: mind of the common common person. Yeah, and if if 125 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: horror movies or anything to go by our horror media 126 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: in general, we do not believe women or people of color, yes, both, alright, 127 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: So even if we don't, Even if you don't, because 128 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Lauren and I do. Even if you don't watch a 129 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: lot of horror movies, you have probably seen this before 130 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: in crime procedurals and supernatural killers, anything like that. You've 131 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: seen a character, most likely a female or a minority 132 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: or both, say hey, I don't like this, let's go 133 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: back and get ignored. And then probably they're both killed, 134 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: or maybe it's a bigger group all killed by a 135 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: monster in the woods or a serial killer in the woods, 136 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: or what have you. Or if the woman survives, the 137 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: police don't believe her, then, but I will admit the 138 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: monster killed my boyfriend might be a bit of a stretch, 139 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: I would. I would want to conduct some further investigation. Yes, 140 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: believe women find the truth. Yeah, I like that which 141 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: I've seen presented as a as a useful thing in 142 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: these are non horror I'm not going to say their 143 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: non horror and these are regular times, and these are 144 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: non movie times. Yes, those times. If it's a big 145 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: conspiracy and we're all in a movie, Oh man, what 146 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: a downer of a movie? It is okay. Um. So, 147 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: while most horror movie troops can be seen as moralistic 148 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: or cautionary tales, this one seems more just assumed. Um. 149 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: Take this scene from Night of the Living Dead, partly 150 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: because it illustrates the point and partly because it's in 151 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: the public domain. Here's the clip. Well, you used to 152 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: really be scared here, Johnny, you're still afraid. Stop it 153 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: now on me. They're coming for you, Barbara, stop it. 154 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: You're acting like a child. They're coming for you. That 155 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: comes one of them. Now he'll hear you. Here he comes. 156 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting out. Spoiler alert. It was a zombie. Yeah, 157 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: Barbara was right. Barbara was right, And we were talking 158 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: about this off Mike, and the troope is sort of 159 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: one of necessity. If the one was like, I don't 160 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: like this, let's go home, and instead of calling her 161 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: a scaredy cat, the dude was like, yeah, okay, history ends. Yeah, 162 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: there's no there's no movie then, probably, but it is 163 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: interesting that a good percent of the time it is 164 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: a woman or a person of color are both that 165 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: is the one raising the concern and then getting ignored, 166 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: totally ignored. Yeah, yeah, so much so that when it's 167 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: not a woman or a person of color, it's strange, 168 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: like it's a it's usually a purposeful reversal. It becomes 169 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: the whole point. Like it was mind blowing in the 170 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: X Files that Molder, the guy, was the one jumping 171 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: to these crazy conclusions that usually turned out to be right, 172 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: and Scully was the scientific skeptic, a woman who is 173 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: a scientist. Weird what I um? Or when the stoner 174 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: character in Capit in the Woods tells everyone that, you know, 175 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: I've got a bad feeling about this, it's played for laughs, 176 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: you know. The other characters tell him to man up 177 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: and that the weed has a paranoid man um and 178 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: of course he's right though, and the weed is what 179 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: saves him. And and note also that this very frequently 180 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: happens to child characters, like basically none of the Harry 181 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: Potter series would have happened if the kids and the 182 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: adults trusted each other enough to fill each other in. 183 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: But the kids thought that they wouldn't be believed, and 184 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: the adults thought that the kids couldn't handle it. The 185 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: fact that this trope happens to women, people of color, 186 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: and children, I think really speaks to how infantilized those 187 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: two groups that are not ldren. Yeah. Yeah, that's a 188 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: great point. Um. And I thought about this a lot because, 189 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: as as listeners know, I'm a huge Harry Potter fan. 190 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: And uh, it's another one of those things where the 191 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: books wouldn't have happened if that trust had been there, 192 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: Like a lot of children's books do operate on that um. 193 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: And when I reread them as an adult, I had 194 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: to step back because I kept getting so angry thinking 195 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: why aren't the adults helping? Right? Oh man, yeah, there's 196 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: it's it's infuriating. Um. But but yeah, like like interestingly, 197 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: the way that the troope does play out, disbelieving these 198 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: people is to everyone's detriment, like you know, from either 199 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: just the main characters in the movie to like the 200 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: whole world. People suffer and perish because they aren't believing 201 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: these adult human people. Yeah, he's intelligent human beings. Right. 202 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: It's like it's like, I don't know if that's a 203 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: subconscious yeah, addition or yeah, um. However, I do think 204 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: that this trope of of these people being right can 205 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: also play into the sexist trope of women being preternaturally 206 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: or even magically intuitive. Um. This is a witch woman trope. 207 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: You know, the idea that ladies are just so mysterious, 208 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: who knows what's going on in our heads? Our thought 209 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: processes are just so different. Um. You know the idea 210 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: that men are logical or observational and women are emotional 211 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: or intuitive. Yeah. I was thinking about that too, and 212 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: I was thinking that it's another way, or it can 213 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: be used as another way to victim blame right totally, 214 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: like you should have intuited and then do and no 215 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: one believes us for frustrating. Yeah. And I would say 216 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: that like a high level of observational logic can look 217 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: like intuition um, similar to Arthur's Clark's often quoted adage 218 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: that um any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from from magic. Um. 219 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: Like if you take Sherlock Holmes, his whole stick is 220 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: that it seems like he's intuiting uh impossibly or even magically, 221 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: until he just breaks down his very rational observations. And 222 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: he's often portrayed as being fay or feminine or otherwise 223 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: non masculine. Maybe because of that, maybe alongside that, I 224 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: don't know. It's a weird yeah. Yeah, and we're gonna 225 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: come back a little bit too, this whole woman's intuition 226 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: and horror movies thing. But that is, I do like 227 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: that point that it can seem magical, but really you're 228 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: just reasoning it a oh yeah, very high level. Yeah. 229 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, and you kind of you kind of see it. 230 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: You kind of see it everywhere. You've got, you know, 231 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: the fortune teller, the wise woman, the woman healer or midwife. 232 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: If you add in n a dash of racism, you've 233 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: got the so called gypsy or voodoo woman. Um. If 234 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: you're if you're in a fictional universe that incorporates magic, 235 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: then like, okay, we we can talk about those characters, 236 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, both both with the metaphors that are in 237 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: use there and also with the actual history of those 238 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: medicinal and of religious practices and the fact that women 239 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: have been accused of witchery all over the place. Um. 240 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: But it's so fascinating to me that even in horror 241 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: set in a non magical universe where the villain is 242 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: just a regular dude. You you still get this trope. Um, 243 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: it'll have that moment, yeah, that we're talking about where 244 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: the woman or the token Rachel minority will express that 245 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,479 Speaker 1: seemingly intuitive thought. This feels wrong. I don't like it. 246 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: It's not it's not magic. They're just paying attention. Yeah, yeah, 247 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: pretty much. There's a great article over at Tour written 248 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: by Emily as your parent about this whole thing, and 249 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: it was so helpful when researching this, and we're going 250 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: to be referencing it throughout. Should you want to look 251 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: it up? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. It's called the Peril of 252 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: Being Disbelieved, Horror and the Intuition of Women. Yes, And 253 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: we have just so many examples for you. But first 254 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna stop for a quick break for word from 255 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So I'm 256 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: thinking about this. The more we thought about it, the 257 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: more and more examples we came up with. Oh yeah, 258 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: I started realizing that it's in everything. But we wanted 259 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: to point out a couple, a couple of really big, 260 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: strong ones. Yes, and I wanted to start with one 261 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: of my favorite favorite horror movies, Scream and Scream Too 262 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: which is also good. Um. And this is a great 263 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: example of what we're talking about for those of you 264 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: who haven't seen these movies. They follow Sidney Prescott played 265 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: by Nev Campbell, who in the first one is a 266 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: teenager in high schoo cool and she's tormented by the 267 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: ghost face killer. Um. I'm sure you've seen those sort 268 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: of grim Reaper costumes. Yeah, it looks like the Scream 269 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: the painting. Oh yeah, it does look like that. Yeah, um, 270 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: or how I imagine that Grim Reaper would look. But 271 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's influenced by this or vice versa. 272 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that's what the killer or killers 273 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: wears in these movies. Oh yeah, there's there's gonna be 274 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: spoilers in here. Just just just f y. I I 275 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: feel like the isn't the window is past. Yeah, but 276 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: if you're really concerned about it, yes, f y Um. 277 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: As we talked about in a little bit in our 278 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: final Girl episode, Scream is a hyper aware horror movie. 279 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: It's a horror movie making fun of horror movies. It's 280 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: playing off the tripes. It knows the tropes, it knows 281 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: that you know the tropes, and it uses that to 282 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: mess with you. I love the first time I saw 283 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: the first one, I thought almost every character was the 284 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: killer at some point. I loved it because they were 285 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: so great. They knew you were looking for these, which 286 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: is excellent. Um, and this trope of not being believed 287 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: with a touch of gas lighting in this case is 288 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: certainly played with here because it turns out Toney's boyfriend, 289 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: the person who keeps telling her everything's gonna be all right, 290 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: stop being so obsessed with the past. You're really overreacting, 291 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: he's the serial killer. Yeah, yeah, he Um, he knew, 292 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: he knew. Oh I don't know if you can say 293 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: the character n the trope, but he knew that was 294 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: a way to like he did, he's obsessed with horror movies. 295 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: That's true that. That's an interesting thing about these movies too, 296 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: is that the killers usually reference horror movies at the end, 297 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: as like I took um, I was influenced by Anthony 298 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: Perkins and Psycho like yeah, yeah, that's another interesting aspect 299 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: about these But um, if we moved to scream to 300 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: scream too gets super meta and I love it. At 301 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: this point, Sydney is in college and one of her 302 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: extracurricular activities is drama and oh yeah, she's being tormented 303 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: again by a ghost face killer and anyway, her starring 304 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: role is Cassandra from Greek mythology, and if you haven't 305 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: heard or aren't familiar with Cassandra, she was the daughter 306 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: of Troy's last king and Troy as in Helen of Yeah, 307 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: the god Apollo was super in love with Cassandra, and 308 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: he gave her the ability to see into the future 309 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: and hopes that that would win her over. I didn't though. 310 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: It didn't work and she she wasn't into it, so 311 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: he put a curse on her that made sure no 312 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: one would ever believe her prophecies. So she saw agamm 313 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: Noam's death, the fall of Troy. She told people no 314 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: one believed her. And if you've heard beware of Greeks 315 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: bearing gifts are possibly the translation is, but where the Greeks, 316 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: especially those bearing gifts? That is a quote from her 317 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: in French philosopher Gastone Buccalard even named a syndrome after her, 318 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: the Cassandra syndrome, to describe cases where legitimate concerns were 319 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: raised and not believed. Yes, well, which brings us back 320 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: to scream too. Okay, So Sydney isn't being believed. She's 321 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: playing Cassandra. Yes. Um. There's a scene where they're rehearsing 322 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: the play and Sydney playing Cassandra. She has sort of 323 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: this Greek chorus wearing masks behind her, kind of like 324 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: the stone versions of those tragedy comedy faces, and the 325 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: chorus begins to do this dance attack type thing at her. 326 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot of choreography involved, um, only she's not 327 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: acting anymore because she sees that one of the actors 328 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: is wearing the ghost face mask under their hood. But 329 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: no one believes her. And it's great because they're chanting there, 330 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: like chanting behind her hill, Cassandra, no one believes you. 331 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: It's wild. And the finale of the movie takes place 332 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: on that stage and Sydney uses a lot of the props, 333 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: the disorienting music, the lights, the heavy bags holding up 334 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 1: the lights, the falling of styrofoam rocks and pillars, the 335 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: fog machine in her battle against the killer. And to me, 336 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of saying that we haven't really gone that 337 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: far from ancient mythological Greece when it comes to believing women. 338 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: That it's a battle that we're still fighting. But I've 339 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: been known to perhaps read too much into horror movies. Anyway, 340 00:21:47,359 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Here is a clip from the scene. Let's dramatic, right, 341 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were, we were just like we we 342 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: watched We actually watched the clipping studio and h and 343 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: and producer Andrew and I. Neither of us have seen 344 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: this film in like about twenty years, and so it's 345 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: I forgot how much I freaked out when that scene 346 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: happened in the theater. It's great. Um. Yeah, there are 347 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: layers upon layers of um it playing on on the 348 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: first one, on the whole fear of the boyfriend. Now, 349 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: of course, Randy, the character who has all the horror 350 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: movie rules, horror movie rules about sequels. Um, when she 351 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: goes to the police, they don't believe her when she says, 352 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: I think it's this Yeah. Yeah. The entire sequel is 353 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: basically about her not being believed. Yeah. Wow. It's a 354 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: pretty good example for what we're talking about. Yeah. Um. Also, 355 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know this that there is an Abba song 356 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: about Cassandra and it's it goes like, sorry, I didn't 357 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: believe you, You're right now we're all dead or some 358 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: heck aba, I know, getting getting serious there. I I 359 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: have I have an example, um that that I wanted 360 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: to discuss that isn't about women, but going back to 361 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: the intersectionality of people of color also having this happen 362 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: in horror films. Um, I wanted to talk about get Out. Yeah, 363 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: this is another film that is very reflexive about its tropes. 364 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: It expects you to have these certain expectations and it 365 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: uses that to mess with you. Um, if you have 366 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: not seen it and you like either horror films or 367 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: ridiculously canny explorations of racism in liberal white America, stop 368 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: this podcast right now and go watch it because A 369 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: it's really good and be I'm going to spoil everything. Yeah, 370 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: it's so good. So yeah, okay. So so get Out 371 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: is a story about a black man's intuitive fears being 372 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: valid to the extreme. Our hero, Chris, has anxiety from 373 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: the get go about driving out to the country to 374 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: meet his white girlfriend's family. She assures him that everything 375 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: will be fine. Everything is not fine. Her family and 376 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: their friends are like walking microaggressions, and the one other 377 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: black dude there who is not a servant, gives Chris 378 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: this panicked, cryptic warning to get out. Um. Chris is 379 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: increasingly unsettled. He asked his girlfriend if they can leave, 380 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: and you know what, she says, yes, She's like, oh, 381 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: of course, of course we can go. She believes him immediately, 382 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: and Chris is relief and like mine, watching this movie 383 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: is intense and palpable, um, Like, you never expect that 384 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: to happen in a scary movie, but hell is your 385 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: characters being believed? Of course, this is, you know, a 386 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: horror movie, so it's a trick. Of course, she's in 387 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: on her family's plot to kidnap Chris and supplant his 388 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: consciousness with that of one of their white friends, because 389 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: Chris's body is healthy, their friends is not. In Black 390 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: lives don't matter. But y'all that moment where she says 391 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: that she believes him, I know, it's it kind of 392 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: goes back to what you were saying earlier about how 393 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: the purposeful. It seems so odd to have Skully be 394 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: the skeptic and scientifically it seems purposeful that moment. I 395 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: remember that to you being like, oh my gosh, it's 396 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: so refreshing, right, and then it's not. It's totally a 397 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: purpose um. The film also explicitly portrays black people not 398 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: being believed by police. Um. On on the way to 399 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: her family's house, Chris and the girlfriend hit a deer 400 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: and a cop shows up, a white cop, and even 401 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: though she was the one driving, the cop asks Chris 402 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: for his I D and only backs off when the 403 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: girlfriend insists that it's unfair and unnecessary. Um. And later 404 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: when Chris contacts a black and about how weird everything 405 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: is out out of the ranch, the friend calls the police, 406 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: but he is also dismissed. Um. And all of that 407 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: pays off with one more twist at the end that uh, 408 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: what was another moment that I was just like, well 409 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: in the theater, like I didn't even know what was 410 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: happening to my face. Um So so you know, it's 411 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: it's the end sequence. Chris is fighting the girlfriend for 412 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: his life and he's winning. Yeah, but but out of 413 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: the night, a police car approaches. And I've heard personally 414 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: never been that scared by police showing up. And it 415 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: was a profound privileged check for me. Like it was 416 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: one of those moments where I was just like, oh, oh, oh, 417 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: I get it. Thank you for telling me about it. 418 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm listening, and I'm so sorry for like not getting 419 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: it previously. Um. And it turns out to be Chris's 420 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: friend who's a T s A agent, And I don't 421 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: care that probably they don't get cars like that because again, 422 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: just like that sense of relief, like you know, if 423 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: it had been cops, cops never would have believed him, 424 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: our judiciary system never would have believed him. Um, And 425 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: it turned out okay, which was such a relief. I 426 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: read that the original ending of the film actually had 427 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: cops show up and that the final scene is Chris 428 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: in in jail or prison. Um, And I am so 429 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: glad that Jordan Peele gave us that relief instead, even 430 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: if it's probably not realistic. Yeah, I think I saw 431 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 1: the alternate ending. I think you can see it, and 432 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: it was so it was just dismal. Yeah, it was 433 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: quite dismal. Um. But that was another That is another 434 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: great example of a a couple of things, a lot 435 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: of things, but a couple of things that we're talking 436 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: about of horror movies being reflective of of society and um, 437 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: fears that we have in society, and also just a 438 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: movie that knows its tropes and messes with you because 439 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: it knows that you know them too. Ah. Yeah, so smart. Yeah, well, 440 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: well to lighten things up a little bit, it was 441 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: so sillier. Examples like out of Yeah drive home, how calmon, 442 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: this trope is hocus pocus. Yeah, so I watched last night. 443 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: Oh it's a good movie, stayed very late, or it's 444 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: a silly movie. It's it's a movie I enjoy watching. 445 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: That's probably the best way to describe it. I watched 446 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: it so much as a kid. It was banned from 447 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: my household. I'm not allowed to watch it. In fact, 448 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: I didn't watch it from about the age of eight 449 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: until about the age of four because my parents Nope, 450 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: never again. So funny. Um, When Danny, who's a little sister, 451 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: tells her brother Max not to light the black flame candle, 452 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: he goes right ahead and does it. She says she's scared. 453 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: She doesn't want to do it. It's a dumb idea. 454 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: He's trying to impress. Yeah, a lady friend. But she 455 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: doesn't want him to do it either. Yeah, she's like, 456 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: I'm scared, don't do that. Also, it's like a museum. Yeah. Anyway, 457 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: we my friends and I played a drinking him to 458 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: it last night, and every time they said, Hollywood, you 459 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: had to take a drink. Um community in community, um Britta, 460 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: that's sort of a bit about the steps to writing 461 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: horror movies. And one of the episodes, and she tells 462 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: the story of a man and woman making out in 463 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: a car and the woman keeps hearing something and the 464 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: dude only agrees to check it out if she promises 465 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: to give him sex when he returns, so he doesn't yeah, 466 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: believe her. Yeah, but he'll use it, but he'll use 467 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: it to get sex. Yeah. Great. Um thriller the music video, 468 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: which I've never seen before. I'd seen the like short one, 469 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: but there's a long thirteen minutes. Yeah, it's beautiful. Well, 470 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: the whole plot thread is essentially this whole thing with 471 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson telling his date, I don't be afraid because 472 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: it's only a movie. But the next then, of course, 473 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: it turns out that it's not just a movie and 474 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: she is follow by zombies. So that's encapsulated right there. Yeah, 475 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it out, I enjoyed it quite 476 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: a bit. Oh and it just like like yeah, like 477 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: once we started thinking about it, it's hard not to 478 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: pile up the the the examples of it. Um. I 479 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that in some of these stories it's 480 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: it's not just other people disbelieving women, it's women doubting themselves. 481 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: Stuff like the Boba Duke, the Ring, Rosemary's Baby, Hunting 482 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: of Hillhouse, Hereditary, the Shining Joy, Spuyers, and Stranger Things. 483 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: I also think it's really interesting that all those characters 484 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: are mothers. Yes, and I'm not sure what exactly that says. 485 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: I think that's another episode about about motherhood and horror movies. 486 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: But oh yeah yeah, um, of course all of these 487 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: women finally do like own the fact that something we're 488 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: just happening and reach out for help and they're disbelieved. 489 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: But yeah uh and speaking of stranger things, oh okay, 490 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: I keep getting excited. Uh. I do love that the 491 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: two young women, um eleven and Nancy are a lot 492 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: more confident, Like they don't doubt themselves. Um, I mean 493 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: they're they're also dismissed, but but at least, you know, 494 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's it's better sweet like they 495 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: I think the point is that they haven't had that 496 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: confidence in their own senses ground out of them yet. 497 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: That is more bitter than sweet, perhaps, But um I 498 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: I do enjoy that as well. Here's hoping that. Yeah, 499 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: these fictional characters keep fighting the good fight absolutely. Um. 500 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: Right before we started podcasting, producer Andrew reminded us of 501 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: Aliens not Alien too. It is the second one that 502 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: is aliens with an S and not alien singular. But 503 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: the I just watched this recently as well, because I 504 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: do like a whole two month horror movie thing. Um. 505 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: And in the beginning, there's this committee of business people 506 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: and lawyers questioning replace the corney Weaver's character about her 507 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: experience on lv TO for six or whatever it is 508 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: um with the alien, and no one believes her. Yeah. 509 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: She keeps saying, like, it destroyed my crew, destroyed my ship. 510 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: The only way I could get out was to jettison 511 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: it and escape on this whole on the little pod. 512 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: And they're all like, I acid comes out of its rains. 513 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: They're like, lady, that's patently silly. Jo. Do you know 514 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: how much money we lost? Yeah? Yeah, they keep bringing 515 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: that up, the whole money thing. Um. And then when 516 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: she she's talking to the sort of marine, the alien marines, 517 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: the space marines, Alien Marines marines, um, and she's trying 518 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: to share a story and to me is obviously like 519 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: having difficulty. It's clear she has this experience. They sort 520 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: of or just like okay, yeah, sure whatever, Yeah, it's 521 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: just not that scary. Yeah sure, it's not that bad. 522 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: Um pretty much. And every episode of Supernatural the TV 523 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: series starts with this some version of this. Sure, a 524 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: lot of episodes of Buffy too, Yeah yeah, and and 525 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: frequently it's one of the it's one of the actual 526 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: Scoopy gang. Like, the number of times that Buffy herself 527 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: is disbelieved by everyone around here is truly remarkable because 528 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: it's just like, y'all, we did this last week and 529 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: the week before that, Um, paranormal activity to where it's 530 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: kind of an interesting dynamic and um, if you haven't 531 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: seen this, you probably know the gist of it. But 532 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: basically it's this couple and her boyfriend. It's weird because 533 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: it's like he believes her because he wants to. He 534 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: believes that there's paranormal activity. He wants to capture it. 535 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: But he does believe her when she's telling him how 536 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: serious and dangerous it is, so it's kind of a strange, 537 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: like he's excited by it. He keeps inviting it in 538 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: and she's saying no, like this is a scary thing 539 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: we need to bring to mess with it. In fact, 540 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: I think we should go do this and try to 541 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: fix it. And he keeps saying I can fix it, 542 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: it's not that bad. He doesn't believe her when she's 543 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: saying she's telling him the consequences and the severity, the 544 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: seriousness of it, which is an interesting kind of take 545 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: on the whole thing. Um and we when we're talking 546 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: about this, you might wonder why is this troupe so common? 547 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: Probably you have a good idea, but talked about it anyway. Emily, 548 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: as your parent in that article that we reverenced at 549 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: the top, wrote, every woman knows what this feels like. 550 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: They know what it means, They know how hard the 551 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: world works not to believe them. And this particular narrative 552 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: device always feels like a pointed jab, a great big 553 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: spotlight on that precise problem. It doesn't even matter if 554 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: it's intentional. In fact, the idea that it might be 555 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: unintentional makes it all the more poignant. Filmmakers and script 556 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: writers accidentally pointing out how women's fears are never taken 557 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: seriously again and again, and why would she have that 558 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: sense when no one else was bothered. Oh, you know, 559 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: probably women's intuition. But intuition is not a magical power 560 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: granted to half the population by sheer random happenstance. It's 561 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: not the consolation prize you drew because the world calls 562 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: you a woman. Intuition is an ability built up over time, 563 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: powered partly by animal instinct and partly by learning and 564 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: partly by experience. Any human being can tap into intuition, 565 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: but women are constantly pegged as the humans who own 566 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: this preternatural ability. Why because women are supposed to be 567 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: on their guard every second of the day, Because our 568 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: very existence in the right skirt or pair of high 569 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: heels is antation to untold abuses. Because we're not supposed 570 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: to trust anyone, but we're supposed to be unfailingly sweet 571 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: to everyone. Women are intuitive because tapping that intuition is 572 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: something that we are encouraged towards from the day we 573 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: were born, for the sake of our safety and our lives. Yeah, 574 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, women and people of color have to pay attention. 575 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: We have to control how we move through the world 576 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: more carefully. You know. We we make note of our surroundings, 577 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: We pick up on nonverbal cues. It's a learned skill. Yeah. Um, 578 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: And I was thinking, I haven't seen this horror movie 579 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: in a while, but I was thinking about the silence 580 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: of the lambs Buffalo Bill. He says something along the 581 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: lines of you wouldn't believe how many people like, even 582 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: though they're scared, are too afraid to be rude. Oh 583 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: yeah right, I remember that part. Yeah, like they'll put 584 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: their safety at risk. And I feel that all the time. 585 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: Where I do think that, um, women in our socialized 586 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: to be so polite and so nice and so friendly. 587 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: Also watch out and watch out. It's your fault if 588 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: anything happens, I mean, if it really did happen. Yeah. Yeah, um. 589 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: We we do have some more history and science science 590 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: about why women, um and people of color are less 591 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: likely to be believed. But first we're going to pause 592 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: for one more quick break for word from our sponsor, 593 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So, as we've said 594 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: before on this show and in this very episode, harmonies 595 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: are a great mirror the hold up to society, and 596 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: this is no exception on a large societal scale. We 597 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: don't trust women. They're over dramatic, they overreact, people of 598 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: color to their unreliable narrators all of us. Yeah. Um, 599 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: and this goes back forever um in the case of women, 600 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: in the case of people of color, that the modern 601 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: concepts of race are relatively recent constructs um, created and 602 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: perpetuated during globalization and the and the slave trade to 603 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: dehumanize and discredit enslaved people's and since then, popular culture 604 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: has largely drawn people of color as unintelligent brutes. This 605 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: pervaded in the United States via minstrel shows basically right 606 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: up until the Civil rights movement in the middle of 607 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Um. But you know, although most people 608 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: know that like black face is bad now, um, those 609 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 1: biases are absolutely still part of our culture. Yeah. For women, Um, 610 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: there's an Egyptian pirus from six BC. It's the oldest 611 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: known medical text that actually describes depressive symptoms, and it 612 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: blames women's mental health problems on their uteruses moving around 613 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: their bodies making trouble. Yeah yeah, yeah, um yeah. Hop 614 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: over to ancient Greece A few centuries later you get 615 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: physicians talking about uterine melancholy. Um. Hippocrates gave us the 616 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: first written mention of hysteria around five b C. Hysteria 617 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,240 Speaker 1: being described as an anxiety and other symptoms in women 618 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: caused by a bad and again wandering uterus. I don't 619 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: know why they thought it detached. Is it like a 620 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: ghostly uter I don't know. No, I think it was physical, 621 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: because they would they would give you like they would 622 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: like put like good smelling things by your nose and 623 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: like bad smelling things by your by your badge if 624 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: if they wanted it to move higher up in your body, 625 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: and they would reverse that. It's very sensitive to smell 626 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: if they wanted it to move back down again. I 627 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: know that's why they didn't let women wide trains for 628 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: a while. Oh yes, because they thought that like any 629 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: sudden stop. Heck, although that could have just been they 630 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: didn't want women writing traps. I don't know. I don't 631 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: know for sure or uh yeah. In the case of 632 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: ancient Greece, the cure for this was generally having sex 633 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: with men, of course, because men were believed to be 634 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: superior um and uh so later those those uh those 635 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 1: beliefs were codified into religion. You know, Eve was physically 636 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,919 Speaker 1: mentally weaker than Adam, so she's the one who fell 637 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: for the serpent's trick. Yea, and yeah, The belief in 638 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 1: women being irrational due to problems with their sex organs 639 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: lasted into the twenty century. That's why it's why vibrators 640 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: were invented. People were like, ladies, you you really need 641 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: to You can't be coming into the doctor's office this 642 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: often to get have a vibrator to have orgasms. We 643 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: need to give you a take home method of solving 644 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,720 Speaker 1: this problem. They didn't call it orgasms then, but yeah, 645 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: well one, that's one good thing I suppose. Yeah. Oh, 646 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: and I do want to put in here that that, 647 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: of course it is completely possible hormones to affect your 648 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: mental health, but like dudes have hormones too, breaking news. 649 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you had to learn it here, but learn 650 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: it you did. Yeah. If we if we bring all 651 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: of this back to the whole hashtag believer and Brett 652 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: cobanaw thing um when it comes to sexual assault, there 653 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 1: has been some science looking into why we don't believe women, 654 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: and it has to do with how the brain handles trauma. 655 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: Survivors don't outwardly act how folks think they should. Instead 656 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: of a sobbing mess, they might seem kind of cold. 657 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: And that's because a lot of survivors experience disassociation from 658 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: their body. Also, a lot of times their memories might 659 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,839 Speaker 1: seem flimsy, which causes people to doubt them. But again, 660 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: this is your brain shutting down all other functions that 661 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: don't have to do with pure survival. Wearing a traumatic, 662 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: potentially life threatening event, and in some cases it's not 663 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: that you can't remember, it's just you have difficulty retrieving 664 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: it and describing it. Another thing the brain does that 665 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: plays into this has to do with how it handles 666 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: and often rejects new information that challenges accepted patterns are perceptions. 667 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,879 Speaker 1: If you find out a friend of yours, someone you've 668 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,760 Speaker 1: known for a long time, is accused of sexual assault, 669 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: this challenge is something you've long held to be true, 670 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: and your brain is like, Nope, no, can't be obviously not. Yeah. 671 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: You can be presented with all these facts and your 672 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: brain is just um. But it is interesting to point 673 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: out that once a man gets involved, the story kind 674 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 1: of changes. Six women had accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault, 675 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: and Tina Fey referenced these accusations twice, once on a 676 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: Weekend to update another time on thirty Rock, But it 677 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: was when the comedian Hannibal Burris called Bill Cosby a rapist, 678 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: and one of his bits that people started to think, 679 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 1: oh oh no, maybe we should look into this. It 680 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: took a man to legitimize the conversation and lead to 681 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: actual action, and just to drive his point home. In 682 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: some countries around the world, rape allegations have to be 683 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: corroborated by one or more men, and that used to 684 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: be the case in some some states in the US 685 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,919 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah. Another way to look at this whole 686 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: thing is how in our society we elevate the desires 687 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: of men at the expense of women. Like in this 688 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: whole conversation about Brett Kavanaugh, the accusers are destroying his 689 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: life and his future, but never mind the lives and 690 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: futures and just general well being of the women involved. Yeah. Oh, 691 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: and in the nineties, the Philadelphia Police sex crimes unit 692 00:43:50,840 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: called themselves the Lion Bitches Unit. Yeah so sweet. Yeah yeah. 693 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: With the article I read, they didn't seem too upset 694 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: about getting found out either. Yeah uh um I read. 695 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: I read an excellent essay by Stephanie Merritt in The 696 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: Guardian called the cult of the unreliable female narrator must 697 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: be stopped um, in which she argues that society's disbelief 698 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: of women is exactly what makes horror movies like the 699 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: ones that we've talked about today so effectively frightening. Um. 700 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: She She says that because men are less vulnerable in 701 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,479 Speaker 1: our society, those creative works wouldn't have quote the same 702 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 1: atmosphere of claustrophobic menace if the main characters were male. Yeah. Um, 703 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: I feel like we could keep talking about this forever 704 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: and keep bringing up examples forever. But that kind of 705 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: reminds me of The Witch. Oh yeah, um. Which what 706 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: I found so frightening about that movie was, Um, it 707 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: did such a great job of driving home to me 708 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: why Um. We we read about the Salem witch trials 709 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: all the time and it feels kind of at least 710 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: in my case, it's always felt kind of distant. But 711 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: that just brought home to me how there's no way 712 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: to prove you aren't a wish. No one believed the 713 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: main character thomasin um, Yeah, you can't prove that you're 714 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: not possessed by the demon, and it was terrifying. Um, 715 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: No one believed her, And I think that's what made 716 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: it so relatable is even if we're not exactly trying 717 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: to ward off accusations of witchcraft, although I mean you 718 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: can see parallels certainly in some things. That idea of 719 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: not being believed is scary and absolutely yeah, And I 720 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: think that really as a society, we don't want to 721 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: believe women because we don't want to have to deal 722 00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: with it. We don't want to have to deal with 723 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: what it means and with having to do the work 724 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: too to fix it, to combat what these women, all 725 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: these women are saying is happening. Yeah. I think it's 726 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: the same reason that there's such pushback against Black Lives Matter, 727 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: because people are like, well, you know, like that that 728 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: intrinsic response that all lives matter thing is essentially saying like, 729 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: there's no problem, right, Like, why are you saying that 730 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: there's a problem. Stop saying that there's a problem. Yeah, 731 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 1: because if you admit that, then you have to admit 732 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: that you have to work on it, exactly right, that 733 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of work, and and it is frightening. 734 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: It's frightening. Um yea balloons balloons Uh oh, I just 735 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: watched it recently. No balloons. So this brings us to 736 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: the end of this episode, which I I foolishly when 737 00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: I pitched it to you, Lauren, thought it was going 738 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: to be a much more fearful thing. I don't know 739 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,240 Speaker 1: what I was thinking. I was like, we can relate 740 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: this to current events, which are great, so much fun. 741 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: Don't know what I was thinking, but it was really 742 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,399 Speaker 1: enlightening to do. As someone like I said, we both 743 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: watch a lot of horror movies, and I'm going to 744 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: guess that for a lot of you, you're not going 745 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: to be able to unsee this now. Uh, it's really 746 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: everywhere it is. It is, and I don't know, and 747 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: I do think that it's it's it's an interesting and 748 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: like culturally useful trope, especially in discussions like this, you know, 749 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: like once you're aware of it, then yeah, hopefully you 750 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 1: can do stuff to help change it, one would hope. 751 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: And we're all about change again, growing for the better here. UM, 752 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the show. Um, 753 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: hopefully you'll you'll come back. We can talk some more 754 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: horror movies one of other things. I won't ye cash 755 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: to you whatever you want to talk about. Yes, no, 756 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,319 Speaker 1: I thank you so much for having me. This has 757 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: been This has been a lot of fun. Yeah and um, 758 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: you can always find the both of us on saver. 759 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: We would love for you to come check that out. 760 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: UM And I think I've mentioned before I love fan 761 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: fiction and uh we we're trying to get a little 762 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: maybe a mini series or on and off against series 763 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:31,320 Speaker 1: of reading stuff that you, you listeners have written. So 764 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: if you have any fiction, nonfiction, anything fan fiction that 765 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: you've created that you are cool with us reading on 766 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: the air, please send it in UM. We might even 767 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: get some voices and some production some production work into it. Um. 768 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I would love for any of you 769 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: all to send some stuff like that in UM. Also, 770 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: just um. Another mini series we're thinking about doing is 771 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: What's something your Mom Never told you? Because you know 772 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,879 Speaker 1: this show we'll get back to our roots a little bit. 773 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,879 Speaker 1: So if you have anything like that, we would love 774 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: to hear it. You can email us at mom Stuff 775 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. You can find us 776 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at 777 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our 778 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,240 Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening.