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Speaker 2: is yours all right, welcome in instant reaction from the
Speaker 2: early windows in the NFL. John Middlecoff three and out
Speaker 2: at the Volume will be joining me in about twelve minutes.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Jets upset of the Philadelphia Eagles. Well, Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: as the saying goes, had been playing with their food
Speaker 2: for the last four or five weeks, not putting people away, struggling.
Speaker 2: I do think they missed Shane Stike and the offensive
Speaker 2: coordinator from last year who is now the head coach
Speaker 2: of the Colts. We all recognize that coordinators matter. I
Speaker 2: don't think the Niners defense is quite as good as
Speaker 2: last year. Demiko Ryans is now the head coach of
Speaker 2: the Houston Texans, who won another game with rookie quarterback
Speaker 2: c J.
Speaker 3: Stroud.
Speaker 2: So I just think the Eagles are a really good team,
Speaker 2: struggling to find an identity and four turnovers. Jets didn't
Speaker 2: have any. And I also think Robert Sala and his
Speaker 2: staff deserve credit. This is a team that has one
Speaker 2: real playmaker on the outside, Garrett Wilson, nice running back.
Speaker 2: O line is suboptimal, tremendous defense. They're playing into Zach
Speaker 2: Wilson's straints. They kind of limit the places he can
Speaker 2: go and get into trouble. Didn't love all their play calling.
Speaker 2: If you looked at the box score outside of the turnovers,
Speaker 2: you would have thought the Eagles won. Well. If you
Speaker 2: look at the box score USC Notre Dame, you would
Speaker 2: have thought USC one. It doesn't matter. Limit turnovers, limit
Speaker 2: the trouble Zach Wilson can get you in play great defense,
Speaker 2: take the ball away. You know when I watched Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: and I think Julian Edelman was on my show about
Speaker 2: four or five days ago, three or four days ago
Speaker 2: at Fox, and he said, every September, you know, Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick's worst month of his career. With September, He said,
Speaker 2: every single team, even super Bowl winning teams, the next September,
Speaker 2: if you had ninety percent same roster, he goes, every
Speaker 2: team had a different identity. And Bill believed the first
Speaker 2: four to five weeks of the season, you found your identity.
Speaker 2: Philadelphia can't find one. But they're really, really talented, and
Speaker 2: so the quest is can we figure out exactly what
Speaker 2: we are? Obviously Jalen Hurts made some mistakes today. Also
Speaker 2: makes you know Philadelphia usually is a very good, big
Speaker 2: moment team with this roster. But it's not a surprise.
Speaker 2: Matt Ryan had an MVP with Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan
Speaker 2: leaves slowly. He's not the same quarterback Philadelphia is. You
Speaker 2: can be two things, very good and lacking a true identity.
Speaker 2: For years, Michigan under Harbaugh was really good, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't until about two three years ago. They found that
Speaker 2: true Michigan identity. We're going to physically, at the point
Speaker 2: of attack dominate you. Ohio State may have better players
Speaker 2: last couple of years, they feel like they've kind of
Speaker 2: lacked a little identity compared to Michigan. So I think
Speaker 2: that's where Philadelphia is. I think they'll be fine eventually.
Speaker 2: They've got a playmaker, a quarterback. AJ Brown's room remarkable.
Speaker 2: They have so many talented guys in that front seven defensively,
Speaker 2: but good for the Jets. I think they've kind of
Speaker 2: figured out and come to terms with what Zach can
Speaker 2: do and what he can I think Zach's playing with
Speaker 2: more confidence now. He's put game after game after game
Speaker 2: three in a row where he's played pretty well. First
Speaker 2: it's Kansas City, then it's Denver. Philadelphia did the best
Speaker 2: of his opportunities. You don't have to win pretty, you
Speaker 2: just gotta win. Good for the Jets. There's been this
Speaker 2: discussion about San Francisco having the best roster, but brock
Speaker 2: Purty's excellence is due to the roster and the coach,
Speaker 2: and I thought there was a moment at the end
Speaker 2: of the game that proved what Brock Purty is which
Speaker 2: I've claimed is good. I don't know if he's pretty good.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's very good, but he's good. So
Speaker 2: last drive of the game against Cleveland's defense, and that
Speaker 2: is a big boy Cleveland Brown defense, top five in
Speaker 2: the league. It's fast, it's got size, it's relentless, doesn't
Speaker 2: have Christian McCaffrey most of the game, doesn't have Deebo Samuel.
Speaker 2: Last drive on the road, marches down and gets the
Speaker 2: team in defeat goal range and the kicker misses. The
Speaker 2: rookie kicker misses. He did his job. If Tom Brady
Speaker 2: was missing Gronken Edelman against this defense, drove down, got
Speaker 2: the field goal kicker in range, and the field goalkicker missed,
Speaker 2: you'd be crushing the kicker. You want to root against
Speaker 2: Brock Purty. You wanted to acknowledge Brady was the goat.
Speaker 2: Depends on where you come from. Perty's good, not great,
Speaker 2: I don't think, but he's good. That was a tough environment.
Speaker 2: Pressure on every pass attempt of that final drive on everyone.
Speaker 2: A couple of big plays by Brandon Ayuk sits in
Speaker 2: the pocket, he recognizes who's open and accurately delivers the ball,
Speaker 2: and that's that's what really good franchise quarterbacks do. Ninety
Speaker 2: percent of the people who play this position are dependent
Speaker 2: on those around them their protection, their weaponry, their head coach.
Speaker 2: Even Mahomes benefits from Kelsey and Andy Reid. So I
Speaker 2: thought that drive, even though it was a losing effort,
Speaker 2: was an example of what pretty is not intimidated, doesn't panic,
Speaker 2: can handle a pass rush, got it to the right people.
Speaker 2: McCaffrey debo not available right, but McCaffrey wasn't available most
Speaker 2: of the game. Debo not available at the end. Got
Speaker 2: it to the right people, moved the ball up the
Speaker 2: field and put them in a position to win. And
Speaker 2: he did his job. The Patriots dynasty was built on
Speaker 2: do your job. The kicker didn't do his job, okay,
Speaker 2: and San Francisco got some heat for drafting the kicker
Speaker 2: where they drafted him. And to this point, you know,
Speaker 2: the Trey Lance thing didn't work. The kicker thing has
Speaker 2: had its ups and downs. They've done a very good
Speaker 2: job to build a roster. But this was going to
Speaker 2: be a really hard day for San Francisco. Right they
Speaker 2: come off this dominating national TV performance over Dallas. We
Speaker 2: know in the NFL. One of the things I've always
Speaker 2: done is bet against the team who has this dominating
Speaker 2: performance the previous week, and bet on the team if
Speaker 2: they have a capable quarterback who gets blown out the
Speaker 2: previous week. So it was one of those circle games.
Speaker 2: You know, the line changed dramatically because of the quarterback play.
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, Cleveland moved the ball enough, deserved
Speaker 2: to win. But to me, the story was another example
Speaker 2: of Purdy is more than capable of at home or
Speaker 2: on the road against an elite defense without all of
Speaker 2: his pieces, moving the chains and getting you in position
Speaker 2: to win the game. I want to talk about the
Speaker 2: Houston Texans, and I infrequently do they beat the Saints.
Speaker 2: So everybody always makes excuses for their young quarterback Daniel Jones,
Speaker 2: Mac Jones, Justin Fields, Desmond Ritter. But I want you
Speaker 2: to think about this, what box As the Texans beat
Speaker 2: the Saints a very good defense and a well coached defense,
Speaker 2: what box did CJ. Stroud have in his favor when
Speaker 2: he got there. Did he have a clever offensive coach
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three to soothe and enable the process. No,
Speaker 2: he not only had a defensive coach, he had a
Speaker 2: defensive coach that had never been a head coach, Demiko Ryans.
Speaker 2: He's a first time play caller, a shaky offensive line,
Speaker 2: limited weapons, and he entered it unstable organization. Much of
Speaker 2: this is what Justin Fields has faced in Chicago. But
Speaker 2: Justin Fields is in year three.
Speaker 3: C J.
Speaker 2: Stroud is a rookie and once again delivered, wasn't great,
Speaker 2: had an interception finally, But what he does sees the field,
Speaker 2: recognizes the coverage, and delivers the ball accurately. He's not
Speaker 2: Josh Allen, He's not Lamar, he's not Mahomes. I don't
Speaker 2: think he's Burrow. But many of the things that c. J.
Speaker 2: Stroud faces, I mean, I hear about Daniel Jones, Sakuon Barkley,
Speaker 2: offensive coach, great left tackle, you know, Zach Wilson, great defense,
Speaker 2: star receiver, really high end young running back. They've all
Speaker 2: got certain gifts. I could argue c J. Stroud has
Speaker 2: fewer gifts than any of them. The defensive coach, the
Speaker 2: rookie play caller, the unstable offensive line, the messy organization,
Speaker 2: a losing culture. What did he have? At some point,
Speaker 2: you have it or you don't. And c J. Stroud
Speaker 2: has He makes really good decisions, and he's really accurate
Speaker 2: with the football. It's like I said about Justin Herbert.
Speaker 2: Justin Herbert walks In has the thirty second ranked offensive
Speaker 2: line his rookie year and a coach that got fired
Speaker 2: after the season, and he set rookie records. Well he
Speaker 2: had good receivers. Well, everybody's got something, but generally speaking,
Speaker 2: rookie quarterbacks with egregiously bad offensive lines, unless you're Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert or Andrew Luck, you're gonna lose, like you know,
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of your games. You have it or
Speaker 2: you don't.
Speaker 3: And c J.
Speaker 2: Stroud, I don't know what his ceiling is, but a
Speaker 2: lot of the things that Justin Fields faces. C J.
Speaker 2: Stroud's facing defensive coach, shaky o line, losing culture, limit
Speaker 2: on weapons, and c J. Stroud is winning games in
Speaker 2: the tougher AFC. So you know, I well, Mac Jones
Speaker 2: doesn't have this, Desmond River doesn't have this. I don't
Speaker 2: want to hear it. The best quarterbacks in this league
Speaker 2: overcome Kansas City this year. They don't have a number
Speaker 2: one receiver, they don't they have any incredibly young defense
Speaker 2: to keep winning games. Philadelphia lost today but Philadelphia had
Speaker 2: to move off all sorts of people, all sorts of
Speaker 2: people in the offseason. Right, they're getting older, right, they
Speaker 2: just keep winning a bunch of games. I mean, what
Speaker 2: is Jalen Hurts won twenty two of his last twenty
Speaker 2: four starts. So the good young quarterbacks Josh Allen for years.
Speaker 2: They still don't have a good old line. They still
Speaker 2: don't have a dependable running game. And Buffalo keeps winning
Speaker 2: every week. You have to be able to overcome. And
Speaker 2: see j Stroud when I watch him, recognizes coverage, throws
Speaker 2: the ball accurately, almost always to the right spot. I
Speaker 2: thought he was really good today, not great, but that
Speaker 2: Saints defense is for real and that was a real
Speaker 2: test and he passed again and again and again. For
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Speaker 2: spent a Saturday in Seattle watching the Huskies Pete Oregon.
Speaker 2: They'll play again, I think for the Pac twelve championship,
Speaker 2: and I think Washington has a better quarterback and wide
Speaker 2: receiver talent, and they're more of a big playoffense. I
Speaker 2: think Oregon's got a better roster. I think Texas Oklahoma
Speaker 2: will play again. Texas has the better roster. Oklahoma at
Speaker 2: a really good afternoon and beat Texas.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the things I thought about, though, is as
Speaker 2: I watch Colorado and USC sort of collapse here in
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks, and clearly there's some regression
Speaker 2: on both programs that when I went to Washington and Oregon, though,
Speaker 2: both have a first round quarterback and a really really
Speaker 2: good young head coach. And these are both very proud.
Speaker 2: You know, Huskies have a national championship, have had several
Speaker 2: really elite teams. Oregon obviously is a top ten program.
Speaker 2: Phil Knight the visionary behind it, despite both of them
Speaker 2: having NFL players all over the roster, first round quarterback talent,
Speaker 2: Bo Nicks, Michael Pennix. The star is the program at
Speaker 2: Colorado and USC the stars, the coach and the quarterback.
Speaker 2: And I think when I watch USC, if you looked
Speaker 2: at the box score, you would have thought they won.
Speaker 2: But if you watch the game, which I did, they
Speaker 2: are completely dependent on Lincoln Riley's play calling and Caleb
Speaker 2: Williams making magic happen. What else do they do well?
Speaker 2: Not much. Colorado's got a really talented quarterback and a
Speaker 2: really inspiring coach. What else do they do well? Is
Speaker 2: that college sports is different. Even with nil. Not everybody
Speaker 2: gets paid. It is about the program. When Alabama was
Speaker 2: dominating college football, it was about Nick Saban's suffocating defenses.
Speaker 2: Saban was a well known coach in the architect, but
Speaker 2: they didn't have star quarterbacks. Even when they have good
Speaker 2: quarterbacks like Tua, he's not the star of the program.
Speaker 2: It's the program, Ohio State, it's the program. Washington and
Speaker 2: Oregon were a testament to that. It felt like a
Speaker 2: college game, not a pro game. It wasn't about the
Speaker 2: NIL even though we know Oregon is very well capitalized
Speaker 2: in the NIL space. It was a really refreshing game,
Speaker 2: and it was I think those are both top five
Speaker 2: or six teams in the country. I do think Oregon's
Speaker 2: got a little better talent, but I think Michael Pennix
Speaker 2: is a really special player. And Washington may have the
Speaker 2: best receiving goal in the country. Their number two receiver
Speaker 2: didn't even play, and Oregon's corners, who are good, got
Speaker 2: beat on several occasions. But it was refreshing. USC has
Speaker 2: always been, uh, you know, Pete Carroll was a bit
Speaker 2: of a rock star when he was here, and so
Speaker 2: it was Reggie Bush. But the difference if you look
Speaker 2: at New England's dynasty through the years, it was about
Speaker 2: Tom Brady taking pay cuts. It was do your job.
Speaker 2: It wasn't about the star quarterback. And there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with having a great quarterback. Tom Brady is the goat.
Speaker 2: Mahomes is. But when I think about Kansas City, I
Speaker 2: think about Andy Reid's play design. I think about Brett Veach,
Speaker 2: the general manager. I think about them managing the cap,
Speaker 2: managing Mahomes's salary. I think about Travis Kelcey, I think
Speaker 2: about Spags the uh, the instive coordinator who's been around forever,
Speaker 2: Chris Jones. It's a collective with a great quarterback. I
Speaker 2: feel like USC football is about the quarterback. They don't
Speaker 2: do anything else well, and Washington and Oregon do a
Speaker 2: lot of things well. And it was just refreshing. It
Speaker 2: felt very collegiate. It's one of the best football games
Speaker 2: I've ever been to in my life, Pro or college
Speaker 2: USC Texas I was at. Obviously there was more at stake,
Speaker 2: but just an absolutely wonderful environment to really really talented
Speaker 2: young coaches, excellent rosters, first round quarterback talent, NFL players everywhere,
Speaker 2: And I just I'm so excited about the future of
Speaker 2: college football because I think when you add Washington and
Speaker 2: Oregon and UCLA and USC to the Big Ten, it's
Speaker 2: going to give us like eight to twelve more massive
Speaker 2: college football Saturdays. Like the one I watched in Seattle.
Speaker 2: It was about as much fun as I have had
Speaker 2: at a football game. And you know, I try to
Speaker 2: go to a couple year live and I do a
Speaker 2: lot of TV viewing, But what a wonderful environment. And
Speaker 2: there's a reason those two teams are significantly better than
Speaker 2: USC because they do a lot well and they're not
Speaker 2: just about their first round quarterback. And now our segment
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Speaker 2: Let's let's be honest San Francisco off that Dallas when
Speaker 2: Deebo gets hurt, McCaffrey not there for a big chunk
Speaker 2: of it. It did in Cleveland's defenses loaded. So I
Speaker 2: kind of felt like, if you're gonna lose, you know,
Speaker 2: the kicker had a makeable field goal missed it. That's
Speaker 2: about as good a loss. And let's be honest about Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: They've been screwing around for weeks. I said this before
Speaker 2: in my preamble. They're a really good team that doesn't
Speaker 2: quite know what they are. And that's where coordinators come in,
Speaker 2: like they sync it up. A good coordinator and you
Speaker 2: find an identity. Edelman told me last week on the show.
Speaker 2: He said, every September, Bill's trying to find the identity.
Speaker 2: You could bring the same roster back, you'd have a
Speaker 2: different identity. Philadelphia doesn't know what they are. They're just
Speaker 2: really talented, and eventually they got bit. After all these
Speaker 2: weeks of winn they got bit.
Speaker 1: I might sound like a homer here, but to me,
Speaker 1: the Niners is a good loss because they legitimately got outplayed.
Speaker 1: You know they Bosa said it after the game. We
Speaker 1: didn't deserve to win that game. The Eagles were in
Speaker 1: full control of the game. All they had to do.
Speaker 1: Speaking of coordinators, you look at the box score. DeAndre Swift,
Speaker 1: who has been in a fantastic addition for him, had
Speaker 1: ten carries. The Jets are not built for you to
Speaker 1: lean on them. You drop back to pass what they
Speaker 1: did about eight hundred times a day. That puts the
Speaker 1: Jets in advantage. And I understand some corners are out.
Speaker 1: Who cares their defensive lineman Lane Johnson's in the locker room.
Speaker 1: So it makes it even easier for the ten defensive
Speaker 1: linemen that the Jets have the guy they drafted last
Speaker 1: year in the first round. Johnson's playing fantastic. They got
Speaker 1: several other guys. Their linebackers were flying around. I did
Speaker 1: not understand and listen, they've struggled Brian Johnson to get
Speaker 1: a rhythm with this offense. Like Shane Stiken had last year.
Speaker 1: It was pretty clear today just run the ball, run
Speaker 1: the ball, run the ball, and they just kept passing it.
Speaker 1: And that ultimately, obviously Jalen has had some off games.
Speaker 1: The pass at the end of the game was devastating.
Speaker 1: We could nitpick letting them score. Right, you had a
Speaker 1: minute forty If you stop them twice, you only need
Speaker 1: a field goal to win. But regardless that pick and
Speaker 1: that spot and really the reason they were there, they
Speaker 1: just were obsessed with passing. I didn't understand why they
Speaker 1: didn't just run it down their throat.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think this is one of the
Speaker 2: things you get into is coordinators sometimes selfishly and or
Speaker 2: they just get into a tunnel. They're not thinking about
Speaker 2: the macro level or the team. They're thinking about I
Speaker 2: got my plays, We've worked on them. I know they'll work.
Speaker 2: The Jets are down a corner and they kind of
Speaker 2: live in a tunnel, and it's very It's like, this
Speaker 2: is why, by the way, john As, you know why
Speaker 2: some coaches like to have control of their offense or
Speaker 2: their defense is that you know, special teams coaches, you
Speaker 2: get paid more if you have more block kicks. But right, like,
Speaker 2: but there are times you don't want to go for
Speaker 2: a block kick and get a penalty and give a
Speaker 2: team a first down. And so I think sometimes Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: remember Sarahanni struggled when he was play calling. He struggled,
Speaker 2: and then he gave it over to Stikan, who's brilliant,
Speaker 2: and they flourished. So then they hire Steichen's replacement, and
Speaker 2: he's not as good as Shane, so the offense isn't
Speaker 2: as good, so they don't need to go back to Sarahanni.
Speaker 2: But I thought they got a little exposed today. And
Speaker 2: I also think in this league is nobody's going seventeen
Speaker 2: to zero and Philadelphia how many weeks in a row.
Speaker 2: They hadn't played a complete game all season. They had
Speaker 2: a really good second half against Tampa. They had halfs,
Speaker 2: they had series, and they tend to be really good
Speaker 2: in moments because they've been in so many big games.
Speaker 2: Philadelphia is a big game, big city, loud media. They're
Speaker 2: a pressurized organization. You know that they've been in big spots.
Speaker 2: The Jets usually fail in those spots. But I think
Speaker 2: eventually in this league, you screw around, you mess around.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, when you're a little kid and
Speaker 2: your mom don't play with the oven, don't screw around
Speaker 2: with the electrical sockets and put a nickel in there.
Speaker 2: You get shocked. Eventually in Philadelphia did.
Speaker 1: Another thing that you know, his box score wasn't great.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna throw for three hundred yards, but it's
Speaker 1: pretty evident. I think we talked about this. Was it
Speaker 1: last week or two weeks ago? Was Zach Wilson. He
Speaker 1: has improved.
Speaker 3: He is a functional player. He's not living up to
Speaker 3: the number two overall pick.
Speaker 1: He doesn't look like he's going to be Trevor Lawrence
Speaker 1: anytime soon.
Speaker 3: But he played pretty serviceable today.
Speaker 1: He had some really good plays on some boot actions
Speaker 1: with guys in his face dumping it off. I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, relative to the bar that he set last year,
Speaker 1: he's definitely improved. And to me, the organization, because I
Speaker 1: thought it was crazy to keep him because obviously you're
Speaker 1: just one snap away as a backup quarterback and you
Speaker 1: got a forty year old quarterback with tear's achilles. But
Speaker 1: they've done a pretty good job. Clearly, the running back's
Speaker 1: really good. Brisaw, I mean he's a star. And the defense,
Speaker 1: but I give Zach Wilson some credit, Like Justin Fields
Speaker 1: for just staying mentally tough when both guys could have
Speaker 1: tapped out early in the season.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about a game fewer people watch,
Speaker 2: Baltimore and Tennessee. Baltimore struggled in the red zone, but
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you the first half by Lamar Jackson
Speaker 2: was brilliant, side arm moving pocket john. I think he
Speaker 2: is so dynamic as an athlete that we're not giving
Speaker 2: him credit. Now he's gotten significantly better as a pocket thrower.
Speaker 2: He really has become Josh Allen because he has such
Speaker 2: a howitzer. He was a bad thrower initially with a
Speaker 2: lot of turnovers, but because he is so he's such
Speaker 2: a power thrower that we don't we still consider him
Speaker 2: thrower first runner second, even though in previous two years
Speaker 2: he ran at Lamar's level. Lamar was so profound and
Speaker 2: had a quirky delivery right like he couldn't play from behind.
Speaker 2: I watched that first half and I'm like, Jesus, I
Speaker 2: if you told me a dark horse to the super
Speaker 2: Bowl Baltimore, say Flowers keep getting better. Odell had a
Speaker 2: catch today. Agalar, It's amazing. Agalar with New England and
Speaker 2: Mac Jones looked like it's over. I know he had
Speaker 2: a play they where he almost busted it for seventy yards,
Speaker 2: and it's like, as we know, the quarterback makes the
Speaker 2: receiver Larry Fitzgerald in Arizona. The better the quarterback, the
Speaker 2: better the Larry. I know a lot of people didn't
Speaker 2: watch it, and they have struggled in the red zone
Speaker 2: with injuries. Boy Lamar, he has become a legitimate pocket
Speaker 2: guy with movement.
Speaker 1: I thought one of the best halves of football that
Speaker 1: has been played, and it was on clear display. As
Speaker 1: we realize how good Cleveland defenses was Lamar a couple
Speaker 1: weeks ago against them, and you know Deshaun missed that game.
Speaker 1: Dtr was in and he just eviscerated him in the
Speaker 1: first half. I think he I completely agree one. You know,
Speaker 1: I think Steve Young is the best total package of
Speaker 1: all time. But really, by the mid nineties, he was
Speaker 1: a pure pocket quarterback. He was not a runner. Michael
Speaker 1: Vick and I saw it firsthand in Philly was such
Speaker 1: a reckless runner because he couldn't slide, so he took
Speaker 1: a lot of shots. Lamar, to me, has become kind
Speaker 1: of the total package of a lot like Jalen Hurts,
Speaker 1: they know how to avoid hits that they are not
Speaker 1: getting molly wopped down the field.
Speaker 3: Lamar's faster than Jalen.
Speaker 1: But as you saw today against the Jests, like Lamar
Speaker 1: probably has a little more touch currently the way he's
Speaker 1: playing this year than Jalen for sure. So like they
Speaker 1: got a bunch of injuries, they have been really good
Speaker 1: for the most part this season. And again I go
Speaker 1: back to a couple of weeks ago. When you have
Speaker 1: that ability against you know, right now, the best defense
Speaker 1: in the league in Cleveland, you can beat anyone on
Speaker 1: any given week, and they just they always, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: get a million guys injured. But he's proven and last
Speaker 1: year was weird with the money, the contract going back
Speaker 1: and forth, the no agent. They've clearly got that figured out.
Speaker 1: And he to me when I watch him right now,
Speaker 1: all season long, he's been fantastic. I think he's definitely
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even call him an MVB dark horse anymore.
Speaker 3: He's he's smack dab in the mix.
Speaker 2: And if you didn't watch the Steeler game they lost,
Speaker 2: they completely outplayed them. They had two touchdowns dropped. So
Speaker 2: that's one of those games because the NFL to.
Speaker 1: I think eight total drops. Now, he did have a
Speaker 1: bad pick in that game, but yeah, he hit a
Speaker 1: bunch of drops.
Speaker 2: That NFL is still largely except Sunday Night Monday Night,
Speaker 2: a regional television product. So if you live Denver West,
Speaker 2: you don't see Lamar in a lot of these games.
Speaker 2: So and most people out West did not get up
Speaker 2: early like I did to watch this game. That Pittsburgh game.
Speaker 2: They totally outplayed him. But Tennessee is Tennessee is a
Speaker 2: physical team, and god Lamar was good. One other thing
Speaker 2: in the NFL. I got to give credit. Two things
Speaker 2: can be true that the Rams would not have won
Speaker 2: a Super Bowl with out Matt Stafford and Jared Goff
Speaker 2: and the Lions. Outside of Philly and San Francisco, they
Speaker 2: have the talent people think Dallas does. I watched them today.
Speaker 2: I mean they don't have great corners, pass rush playmakers,
Speaker 2: O line coordinators, Brad Holmes upstairs and that executive suite.
Speaker 2: This is a really good roster. It's not San Francisco,
Speaker 2: but I think it's in the class of Philadelphia. And again,
Speaker 2: if you had Brock Purdy and his contract, you could
Speaker 2: have two more stars, So you can go buy a
Speaker 2: star corner like they can go. You know, they can
Speaker 2: buy a McCaffrey. They can keep two great linebackers. I
Speaker 2: think Stafford's good and mcbay's having a great year. But
Speaker 2: I watched Detroy today and I'm like, hey, are the Cowboys.
Speaker 2: They have the better quarterback, right we talked Dan Quinn.
Speaker 2: They have Ben Johnson, they have a better pass rush,
Speaker 2: they have a better offensive line. I think Detroit's really good.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought them up because I think they're
Speaker 1: a sneaky dark horse for the number one seed. Look
Speaker 1: at their schedule. They have not played Minnesota yet. They
Speaker 1: have not played the Bears yet. They already beat Green
Speaker 1: Bay in Green Bay, so they get them at home.
Speaker 1: I mean, the toughest game on their schedule. They won
Speaker 1: Week one against the Chiefs. They still got Denver, they
Speaker 1: still got the Raiders. I mean this team, the talent
Speaker 1: they have. The other thing is the trade they made
Speaker 1: with Stafford. Think of the players that netted them even
Speaker 1: last year.
Speaker 3: What did they do.
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, you can't take a running back in the
Speaker 1: first round. Well, they traded back and they added the
Speaker 1: tight end as well. Who's fantastic they got today Jamison
Speaker 1: Williams touchdown. They drafted him last year. Torn acl one
Speaker 1: of the fastest players in the league. To me, their
Speaker 1: high end impact players are now. They're a little younger
Speaker 1: than the Eagles and the Niners, but they have a
Speaker 1: chance with the tight end, with the wide receiver. Sat
Speaker 1: Brown is fantastic. How about that touchdown he had today.
Speaker 1: The way Goff's playing right, I mean, he's a top
Speaker 1: ten quarterback in the NFL. Aiden Hutchinson has a chance
Speaker 1: to be one of the better pass rushers. They have
Speaker 1: a bunch of Pro Bowl high end guys and when
Speaker 1: you have that on it, they destroyed Tampa. I mean
Speaker 1: that they shoved that game. To me, was and Tampa's
Speaker 1: maybe not be bad. I mean, Tampa has a lot
Speaker 1: of high end players too, and they shoved him around
Speaker 1: on the road off a bye.
Speaker 2: Go to that game two weeks ago against Green Bay.
Speaker 2: It was not physically competitive. Like I don't know if
Speaker 2: the Packers had five starters. You know, Jay r Alexander
Speaker 2: clearly starts, yeah, but I don't know if the Packers
Speaker 2: had five starters that would start for Detroit, Like their
Speaker 2: old line has to be two or three, one, two
Speaker 2: or three in the league. And you know, Goff's funny.
Speaker 2: I've said for years, I think Goff's a better Matt Ryan,
Speaker 2: and Matt Ryan wanted an MVP. He's a better Matt Ryan.
Speaker 2: I think he moves a little better, stronger arm number
Speaker 2: one pick. You know what it's again. I think people
Speaker 2: forget Goff got to a Super Bowl. Goff couldn't beat
Speaker 2: San Francisco. Well, hell, the Rams can't beat him with Stafford.
Speaker 2: It's a bad matchup. You start looking out like the
Speaker 2: Rams got the ring with Stafford.
Speaker 3: But they've got a big.
Speaker 2: Decision to make, Like they have about five needs next
Speaker 2: year and they can only get about three of those
Speaker 2: for immediate help if they have a rookie quarterback, and
Speaker 2: they can. I don't know what they do with Stafford.
Speaker 2: He's still good, so was Cup so was Donald. But
Speaker 2: let's talk Rams as they beat Arizona. What do they
Speaker 2: I've done this in my head a million times, and
Speaker 2: I've texted less need is that they need probably an
Speaker 2: upgrade at left tackle, another edge rusher, probably a number
Speaker 2: one running back. They moved off Van Jefferson. They'll probably
Speaker 2: get another wide receiver. They don't have a lot of
Speaker 2: money still because of Stafford, unless he redoes his contract
Speaker 2: and he didn't want to do that in the offseason.
Speaker 2: Would you if you were the Rams, you're less snee
Speaker 2: would you say to yourself, I'm going to trade down
Speaker 2: in the first round and get two forced two fists, whatever,
Speaker 2: and give Matt one more run at a super Bowl,
Speaker 2: or we're going to take the quarterback or even move up.
Speaker 2: We're not going to be a super Bowl team. We've
Speaker 2: got a few players, but may have to give up
Speaker 2: a second pick or a third pick and then just
Speaker 2: realize Matt's going to have another nine win season and
Speaker 2: then we're going to move on. Would you give Matt
Speaker 2: the extra year like a not draft in this quarterback class,
Speaker 2: not go draft, move down in the draft, get multiple players,
Speaker 2: and say Matt, we're gonna give you one more super
Speaker 2: Bowl run.
Speaker 1: To me if he's on the field all year long,
Speaker 1: I mean, they're competing for a wildcard spot and you
Speaker 1: keep rolling it back to me, I'm invested in the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage. I mean they need offensive lineman. I'm
Speaker 1: drafting multiple offensive lineman because, as you can see, Sean
Speaker 1: McVay is an offensive mind. They haven't really had a
Speaker 1: running back for years. They've been competitive right since Todd Gurley,
Speaker 1: what he's doing with the passing game. Now they got
Speaker 1: Cooper cup back. Yeah, I mean to me his longest.
Speaker 1: Stafford's healthy, And that was my biggest question mark because
Speaker 1: last year you get the Elbowl thing. We saw a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago with Big Ben it just fell
Speaker 1: off a cliff. Well, you're watching Stafford this year. He
Speaker 1: looks fantastic. I mean, he's slinging that around like he
Speaker 1: did in Detroit. So to me, you just get a
Speaker 1: little more talented up front because in the NFC, think
Speaker 1: who you're gonna have to be. Obviously the forty nine ers,
Speaker 1: why do they struggle with him? Camp pass block Dallas,
Speaker 1: Philly all great pass rushes. Now Detroit with Aiden Hutchinson
Speaker 1: their defensive line. So to me, I have no problem
Speaker 1: running back with Aiden Hudson. I also think, I mean
Speaker 1: with Matt Stafford. But when you look at some of
Speaker 1: these other teams, you can draft guys in the middle
Speaker 1: round at quarterback because part of having Sean McVay. Now
Speaker 1: they did it with Setson Bennett. I don't know all
Speaker 1: the details. Something's a little weird there that that looks
Speaker 1: like they regret that one, right, But I don't mind
Speaker 1: the mindset taking a guy third, fourth, fifth round, held
Speaker 1: the forty nine er serving quarterbacks in the seventh round.
Speaker 3: So you have Sean mcbivay.
Speaker 1: The reason you pay him all this money is cause
Speaker 1: remember Jared goffs Now he was the number one overall pick.
Speaker 1: But when Sean McVay took over the job, everyone thought
Speaker 1: the guy was gonna be out of the league in
Speaker 1: like two years based off his rookie season, right because
Speaker 1: it was pretty ugly. And then he immediately that year
Speaker 1: they were in the playoffs. Within two years they're competing
Speaker 1: for Super Bowl. So yeah, I mean I would roll
Speaker 1: with Stafford as long as I feel good about his health.
Speaker 1: But this quarterback classes, and you saw, you know on Saturday.
Speaker 1: The talent you pass the first two guys is pretty elite.
Speaker 3: I mean, it really is.
Speaker 2: So let's talk some college football here to wrap this up.
Speaker 2: I think Pennix, I don't know what his comp is,
Speaker 2: but he was willing with a better receiving crew to
Speaker 2: sit longer in the pocket, seize the field. Well, beautiful
Speaker 2: deep ball sideline thrower was much more willing had more physical,
Speaker 2: courage to sit in the pocket to the last second.
Speaker 2: Muddy pocket, get hit bo Nix is Derek Carr generally
Speaker 2: first second read, wants to get it out, decisive, accurate,
Speaker 2: gets it out. You can move the pocket with him,
Speaker 2: but that's not what he is. Very much to meet
Speaker 2: Derek Carr where professional, accurate, but didn't wait an extra beat,
Speaker 2: played with much cleaner pocket, didn't wait the extra beat,
Speaker 2: got it out, got it completed underneath stuff where I
Speaker 2: thought he could have waited another half second to a second. Panix,
Speaker 2: We'll just sit down there until his guys get deep.
Speaker 2: I said this earlier. What I don't look about what
Speaker 2: I see with Colorado and USC programs. This is still
Speaker 2: college football, and I'm for the nil, but they become
Speaker 2: very coach quarterback dominant. I'm the man Oregon Washington have
Speaker 2: first round quarterbacks. They're about the program, and it was
Speaker 2: so refreshing to go. I want there to be a
Speaker 2: gap between pro football and college football, like I like
Speaker 2: the cheerleaders, the bands, the collegiate field. I don't have
Speaker 2: a problem with an il, but I think USC has
Speaker 2: gotten sloppy. I think they're about Caleb making great plays
Speaker 2: too much. Heisman talk. I think shaduer Sanders, Dion Sanders.
Speaker 2: I love the mission, but again like it's not a
Speaker 2: complete football program. And I I love college football, and
Speaker 2: part of what I love about it is its history
Speaker 2: and Penn State's uniforms and the big House. And I
Speaker 2: think USC feels a bit booge to me. And they've
Speaker 2: gotten a little They've fallen in love with the brand USC,
Speaker 2: and they don't really do anything well. They don't run well,
Speaker 2: they don't pass block, they don't tackle well. And in
Speaker 2: a strange way, as I watched them play Notre Dame,
Speaker 2: I said, they deserve this. They've gotten a little too
Speaker 2: much love too quickly. And Washington and Oregon, having sat there,
Speaker 2: those are buttoned up, do multiple things well Kaylin de
Speaker 2: boor Dan Lanning really well coached excellent NFL players. But
Speaker 2: it's about the community, the programs, the stadium, the fan.
Speaker 2: I mean Oddston and Husky Stadium are about as loud
Speaker 2: as college football cats And so as I watched that
Speaker 2: game and then I watch USC Notre Dame, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I fell Washington and Oregon really easy to root for,
Speaker 2: and USD increasingly kind of a hard watch and hard
Speaker 2: to root for.
Speaker 1: Listen, I know you've talked to him. I like Lincoln
Speaker 1: philosophically from a football since I don't agree with a
Speaker 1: lot of the things the way that he looks at
Speaker 1: the game. Obviously the quarterback matters, but he just doesn't
Speaker 1: care about defense. I mean, he strictly doesn't. And his
Speaker 1: ethos as a coach is represented by the way they play,
Speaker 1: and there's a softness to it.
Speaker 3: There just is.
Speaker 1: And I think look at some of the things that
Speaker 1: have happened this year that the banning of the reporter,
Speaker 1: like what are we doing? That feels so, you know,
Speaker 1: nonpower five such a small minded move to me. And
Speaker 1: then there's another thing that I've been told by NFL people.
Speaker 1: He shut it down for NFL scouts after Week two,
Speaker 1: I think till the Cow game or every other program.
Speaker 1: They always say about Nick Saban, you could knock on
Speaker 1: the door at three am and someone's there to let
Speaker 1: you in. And the one thing I've heard about Oregon
Speaker 1: and Dan Lanning, where does he come from? Kirby Smart,
Speaker 1: who's a knick NFL operation. You go to their practice
Speaker 1: last year, you go to their practice this year. It
Speaker 1: looks the same same thing. With Washington, it's a very
Speaker 1: consistent place. And I think sometimes in this transfer world,
Speaker 1: and I've talking to a lot of scouts that go
Speaker 1: to these practices, They're like, you never know what you're
Speaker 1: gonna get from year to year. Think about Pete Carroll's
Speaker 1: in their heyday or Chip Kelly or hardball. The same
Speaker 1: group of players were there three to five years. Right,
Speaker 1: So the rivalry the Notre Dame game mattered well, Listen,
Speaker 1: I mean I would have signed Lincoln Riley too, But
Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley is a Texas guy, right, It's where he's from,
Speaker 1: Texas Tech, Oklahoma that the USC Notre Dame rivalry means
Speaker 1: a lot to a lot of people, but to him
Speaker 1: that you know, does it to Caleb? Does it mean
Speaker 1: the same? You saw Oregon, Washington some of those players
Speaker 1: and listen, they got transfers too. But where does think
Speaker 1: about bo Nicks? What's he used to rivalry Alabama Auburn?
Speaker 3: Like it me?
Speaker 1: He played and listen, he had some flaws yesterday, but
Speaker 1: I was impressed just with his effort.
Speaker 3: Obviously. Why all the kids in that game, to.
Speaker 1: Me, USC kind of tapped out, they kind of laid down.
Speaker 1: Same thing with Colorado and that's what's happened sometimes what
Speaker 1: happened to the NBA kind of became a mercenary league.
Speaker 1: People don't care as much. Right when you get players,
Speaker 1: you get fifty three transfers. You know you lose a
Speaker 1: game when you're up twenty nine to nothing to Colorado,
Speaker 1: do you have no business losing at home? I mean
Speaker 1: that was let's face it. Obviously the kid the wide
Speaker 1: receiver made an incredible catch on the back of Travis Hunter.
Speaker 1: But still that's a bad loss to me. Forty eight
Speaker 1: to twenty column forty eight.
Speaker 3: It's one thing to lose.
Speaker 1: Listen, Oregon lost, you hang your head high, USC, that's
Speaker 1: that's an indictment on the program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think to your point is when you
Speaker 2: have a kind of a talent infusion, the danger of
Speaker 2: the transfer portal is that. That's why Colorado was show
Speaker 2: shocking to all of us that they were good in
Speaker 2: week one and efficient. We're like, but over the course
Speaker 2: of time, you know, you can go with friends, five
Speaker 2: or six friends on the road trip and it works
Speaker 2: for two days. Ten days later, y'all hate each other. Right,
Speaker 2: It's like there's something about family and I feel like
Speaker 2: when I went to Washington Oregon. I feel like there
Speaker 2: was so much depth in the programs. The players care,
Speaker 2: they're crying, they care so much, they're so into everything,
Speaker 2: fight song on and Washington and Oregon have transfers, but
Speaker 2: USC is like a transfer program. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: the longer the season goes on, their O line play
Speaker 2: gets worse. They don't tackle, they don't run the football consistently.
Speaker 2: I don't blame it all on Caleb. He's running for
Speaker 2: his life. They can't. I mean, it's just he has
Speaker 2: to be a superhero.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't that speak to Like, Let's use the
Speaker 1: NFL as an example right now. If Patrick Mahomes has
Speaker 1: a bad game, Andy and Veach have built the team
Speaker 1: they can win. Today Purty barely throws for one hundred yards.
Speaker 1: The Niners are in the game. The Browns they're missing
Speaker 1: their starting quarterback.
Speaker 3: Can't compete.
Speaker 1: Part of building a team, right when you're quarterback he's
Speaker 1: human being. Now he was really bad, but when he
Speaker 1: has a bad game, can you compete? And they couldn't
Speaker 1: even I mean they weren't even close, right were the
Speaker 1: other two programs for example, like Washington Oregon could have
Speaker 1: a down game from their quarterback and definitely still compete.
Speaker 1: The running backs really good. There are other playmakers defensively
Speaker 1: to me, Dan Lanning and Kaylan du Bor. I've been
Speaker 1: saying this for a while. You can see the Kaylan
Speaker 1: du boor thing coming from a mile away Ohio. Now
Speaker 1: they're going in the Big ten. He's gonna be placing
Speaker 1: these big programs. Ryan Day loses to Michigan again, the
Speaker 1: rumbling start. That's a guy that some of these big programs,
Speaker 1: not that Washington isn't, but they've never had those one
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar coaches yet. Maybe it's time. But the
Speaker 1: Ohio states of the world are gonna start looking at
Speaker 1: him when you win games like that. I mean, that
Speaker 1: guy's a star. Dan Lanning's pretty damn good too.
Speaker 2: But Oregon pays yeah well Phil Knight, Yeah, OK, check book.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I know it's a lot of people didn't
Speaker 2: like the conference realignment, and but I got news for you.
Speaker 2: If you give me Oregon Washington every year, the big
Speaker 2: dogs will still play. If you give me USC UCLA
Speaker 2: at the city championship, I don't need USC to play
Speaker 2: the regional you know, Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona State.
Speaker 2: So it was I like college football in person better
Speaker 2: than I like the NFL. I will say it was
Speaker 2: a national TV game, so there was a lot of
Speaker 2: TV timeouts and you're sitting there, Thank God, Lake is
Speaker 2: so beautiful. So when you have nine minutes, you know,
Speaker 2: you're knocking down a beer. You're looking at the crowd,
Speaker 2: and you're looking at the you know, the water.
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think to me, he's a version,
Speaker 1: a bigger version of Tua. The one thing with a
Speaker 1: player like Penn very interesting. The only thing that makes
Speaker 1: me a little nervous, like with Tua, is the lack
Speaker 1: of mobility in the modern day game with I mean,
Speaker 1: we see how many sweet defensive linemen are all over
Speaker 1: the NFL because he throws the ball as beautiful as
Speaker 1: you're gonna find, and any level it's just can't he
Speaker 1: move well enough?
Speaker 3: But how is he not going to be a top
Speaker 3: ten pick?
Speaker 2: I mean, well, I think I couldn't come up with
Speaker 2: a comp that's probably probably it A bigger, stronger, more
Speaker 2: of a power thrower to a he throws a gorgeous ball,
Speaker 2: not really gonna move much tough that's a and has
Speaker 2: By the way, he had two a cl tears in Indiana,
Speaker 2: So he's got an injury history. That's a really good comp.
Speaker 2: I thought bow Knicks was Derek Carr. Michael Pennix is
Speaker 2: a bigger, a stronger to That's a really good comp
Speaker 2: That's that's what it is, and that means really Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was getting peppered there in the middle of the game.
Speaker 1: The scouts love, you know, he was barely getting up,
Speaker 1: but he just kept getting back under center, kept getting
Speaker 1: a shotguns like, Ah, this guy's tough. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: he's tough obviously battling back from the acl injuries. But
Speaker 1: in the middle of a game with that many people watching,
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought Oregon was playing fantastic. He just
Speaker 1: that guy was relentless. And and to me, the Dan
Speaker 1: Landing going for it in the middle of the field,
Speaker 1: the momentum you give another team when you turn it
Speaker 1: over on downs, you just give them life, you know.
Speaker 1: And to me, so it's a double whammy. It's one
Speaker 1: you give them the ball back in the middle of
Speaker 1: the but you also the excitement that goes to that
Speaker 1: other sideline. And I understand it's his mo to be
Speaker 1: kind of brain and stallyish, but in that spot, you
Speaker 1: would really dominated the second half. Just make him go
Speaker 1: eighty five yards well.
Speaker 2: And I also think Dan his brand, if he has one,
Speaker 2: is an aggressive guy. You know, he'll taught people on
Speaker 2: social smoke, the cigar, the pregame speech, and so it's
Speaker 2: hard when you're an aggressive guy and you preach that
Speaker 2: and you get into that moment, Hey, we're punting right,
Speaker 2: It's like it's his brand. Whereas Caitlin de Boor is
Speaker 2: very humble, very under the radar about the players. He
Speaker 2: reminds me a lot of Chris Peterson. And you know
Speaker 2: Peterson is behind the scenes. So they got de Boor
Speaker 2: and then Chris Peterson's right behind the scenes, and they
Speaker 2: I think they took their ops guy from like Michigan.
Speaker 2: They spent like seven figures on him. I think I'm
Speaker 2: right there. So let me tell you something. Washington's got money.
Speaker 2: They may not have Phil Knight money, but they've got
Speaker 2: they got money, and they're gonna have to start saving
Speaker 2: their pennies because Klen de Bor is gonna get big
Speaker 2: time offers. And Washington may not be Ohio State or Michigan,
Speaker 2: but they are in that somewhere between like seven to
Speaker 2: twelve program where Environment history. I don't know where Oregon's probably,
Speaker 2: you know, Washington's got the natty. Oregon doesn't. You can
Speaker 2: look at Oregon, go Phil Knights the program, or it
Speaker 2: never exists. Washington was great with Don James. They were
Speaker 2: good with Jim Owen, Don James, Rick Newheisel, pretty good
Speaker 2: with Sark, Chris Peterson, now Kaitlyn de Bor. Like Washington
Speaker 2: is like Ohio State, maybe a little lesser that when
Speaker 2: they get the right coach, they win nine ten games
Speaker 2: and they're in, They're in the playoff picture, and this
Speaker 2: team's good. They're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you and me or West Coast guys.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, Meanwhile, Wisconsin Iowa are playing like a
Speaker 1: two nothing game. The Big Ten is lucky to add
Speaker 1: those two programs. They made the right decision. Obviously, USC,
Speaker 1: UCLA and no brainer. But those two programs better right
Speaker 1: now than USC clearly on the football field. But that's
Speaker 1: those brands, and that beside Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State,
Speaker 1: they fit right in and honestly, on any given week
Speaker 1: they could beat them as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I've gone to a lot of Husky games
Speaker 2: and driving windy rainstorms. UCLA may struggle with a weather
Speaker 2: transition Washington, Oregon or not No, John Middlecoff The volume
Speaker 2: three and out.
Speaker 1: Good see anybody, Thanks Golling, have a good week. The
Speaker 1: volume