1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Now, if I were if in Texas, I may say 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: he's Donald Trump is scared as a cat at the dogtown. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: But since I'm from New York, I put it this way. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: We're scaring the living hell out of him, and we're 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: just starting right now. Well, he's like a charisma black hole. 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: He not only has no charisma, he sucks charisma out 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: of other people. That hurt me. That was Do we 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: have the other one? At least is better delivered. The 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: jackass one reminds me of Sam Raybert's saying that you 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: might know, any jackass can kick down a barn, but 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: it takes a good carpenter to build one. That betrays 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: either a gross lack of knowledge about jackasses, barnes, or both. 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: You need a gigantic jacks as a tiny barn or 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: barn that is not of the code. We're right, not 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: of anybody's code. What's going on here? Lana heat Chen 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: is the David and Diane Staffy Research Fellow too Over Institution, 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: also director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University, hosted 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: the podcast Crossing Lines with lan Hea Chen. A lot ye, 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: how are you, sir? Oh? I'm fine. I'm just trying 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: to find some charisma all that and this is this 21 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: is this entire lead up you heard from us is 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: very similar to what you get on Fascination, isn't it. 23 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: You know, this has been the issue with Bloomberg all along. 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: I think you know, I mean, the reason why he 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: is not the presumptive favorite of the establishment is precisely 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: because of the two clips you just played. I mean, well, 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: I I think so. I mean, look, I mean, look 28 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: at all the things objectively right, the guy's got a 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: ton of money. He's willing to put a lot more 30 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: of it into the race. He's had a pretty good 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: record as uh as mayor of New York, with the 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: exception of the whole stop and frisk controversy, which is 33 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: it's a big deal to summon the Democratic Party. I 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: get that, But if you look at the guy's record, 35 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: what's pretty clear is he's probably the Democrat who is 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: going to be able to attract the support of anyone, 37 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, in the center or center right. So the 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: establishment should love this guy. I think the challenges that 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: he just as you as you've said, he has zero charisma. 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: Now we have been pronouncing that it seems clear the 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: establishment has gotten behind the guy judging by you know, 42 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: the the MSNBC's and CNN's of the world, that can 43 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: couple of guys from the Congressional Black Caucus coming out 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: and saying, yeah, don't worry about that racial stuff. He's fine, 45 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: we love him. So are you saying they're they're they're 46 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: not latching onto him or just taking a cautious look 47 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 1: or where do you think it stands? I think they're cautiously. 48 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of like the the you know, 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: the thing you've got in your back pocket in case 50 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: everything sort of goes goes badly. It is here's someone 51 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: who could be credible badly well that maybe maybe it's 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: time to break the glass. I mean, I think, look, 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: I think there's still some discomfort with him for a 54 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: variety of different reasons, you know, the stop and first 55 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: pieces one of it. I think I think that the 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: fact that he is somebody who is perceived as being, 57 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, willing to spend whatever it takes at a 58 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: time when the party itself, uh, you know, seems to 59 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: be be trying to take a more populous route. I 60 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: think for all these reasons, he hasn't been fully embraced. 61 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: But you're right. The reason you're seeing more and more 62 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: positive information flow on him is precisely because, you know, 63 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: I think the Democratic establishment wants a place to go 64 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: when Biden doesn't perform the way that Biden you know, 65 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: thought he would, and you know, arguably we're there. I 66 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: think South Carolina and Nevada will be telling um, I 67 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: don't think you're going to see any large scale movement 68 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: until after South Carolina. Fair enough, We'll wait and see. Then, Hey, 69 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: an he come in on the William Barr telling the 70 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: President to stop tweeting story we were talking about in 71 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: the last segment. I mean, it's obviously a notable thing 72 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: for an attorney general to essentially send a rhetorical shout 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: across the president's bow and a threat to resign. It 74 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: sounded like us. Well, you know, I think a couple 75 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: of things. First of all, bar bar happens to be right, 76 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: which is that you know, he's he's got to do 77 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: a job, and you know, I think the President is 78 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: probably making it a little harder for him to do 79 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: that job. Well with all of the commentary and tweeting 80 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: that aside, I think it is quite remarkable how this 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: kind of came out of out of left field. I mean, 82 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: it seemingly came out of nowhere. It's not like bar 83 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: had given a few interviews where he was like, well, yeah, 84 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's not the best thing. He just 85 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: sort of came out guns blazing, and and the the speculation. 86 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: The big question is to what extent did he give 87 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: the president heads up? To what extent did he say 88 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: to to to the even senior White House team. Look, uh, 89 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: this is starting to get really hard for me. I'm 90 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: going to have to say something to cover myself and 91 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: to cover you know, what we're trying to do. Um. So, 92 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: I think that's a big question, but it was. I 93 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: was quite surprised, not not at the fact that he said, 94 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: but in the words he used. The words he used 95 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: were pretty sharp, right Well, you know Bill Barr's career 96 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: in history and everything like hett, He's a serious man, 97 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: and I don't think he appreciated anybody, including the potus 98 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: giving fuel, giving you know, energy, to his opponents for 99 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: calling him a hack. He doesn't like being called the hack, 100 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: right well, and I mean he's he's not. If you 101 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: look at his career and you look at all that 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: he's done, he has, he served a number of presidents. 103 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: He's been uh, you know, a guy who's always been 104 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: well regarded, and so, you know, I do think it's 105 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: some level part of this is Bill Barr trying to 106 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: stick up for himself a little bit and saying, look, 107 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, for for all the things that the president 108 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: is saying and doing, I'm trying my best to hold 109 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: things together. Now, that may not be a credible argument 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: in fight, I don't think. I think the left now 111 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: is completely uh you know, sort of on the anti 112 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: bar bandwagons. It doesn't really matter what bar does at 113 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: the end of the day. So that's in their interesting question, 114 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: which is if he wasn't going to be able to 115 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: change the media narrative, why come out and do this 116 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: in a way that potentially would offend President Trump. That 117 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: having been said, I think part of it is Bill 118 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: Barr wanting to set the record straight about himself and 119 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: and just for posterity's sake, you know, I was looking 120 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: at texts we got. We read the Bloomberg article in 121 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: g Q. I don't know if you saw that. They 122 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: came out yesterday. Bloomberg and g Q are two things 123 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: that don't usually go together. But okay, now they had 124 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: an article that the title of it was why is 125 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sexual history not being discussed? And it basically goes 126 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: through a whole bunch of different stories that have been 127 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: out there, and some of them I remembered when I 128 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: was reminded of them at a little Trump esque that's 129 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: hanging out there. So it's gonna be fun to watch 130 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: that and see how it plays out. Yeah, and and 131 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: in a Democratic primary that has a lot more salience 132 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: than than in the Republican primary, I'd argue, right, I mean, 133 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: if if you think back to all the accusations lobbed 134 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: against Trump, many of them quite serious, the the way 135 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: in which they were able or not able to gain 136 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: traction in Republican primary, I think in a Democratic primary 137 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: the context could be very different. Yeah, I would agree, 138 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: Although you know, from my perspective, and I've argued this 139 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: many times when we discussed Trump's various sins and idiosyncrasies, 140 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: is it's still a binary choice. And if I'm, for instance, 141 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: a Midwestern evangelical and I might personally be offended by 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: Trump's conduct and I brought up my kids not to 143 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: act that way, etcetera, etcetera, I still am looking at 144 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominees. I'm looking at the you know, the 145 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: judiciary from top to bottom. I'm looking at, you know, 146 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: finally enforcing immigration policy. And look, I might hold my 147 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: nose and vote, but I'm sure it's heck not going 148 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: to vote for Bernie or somebody like him. Right, And 149 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: by the way, the same logic might apply for a Democrat, 150 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: sure progressive looking at looking at Bloomberg and saying I 151 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: don't like the stop and frisk thing. I don't like 152 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: the fact that he seems to be a billionaire that's 153 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: out of touch. I don't like blah blah blah. But 154 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I want to be Trump. 155 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: And if I want to be Trump and Bloomberg is 156 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: willing to spend a billion dollars to beat him, will heck, 157 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: you know that that's a bandwagon I'm willing to jump on. 158 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: So I think that that analogy is very apt. You 159 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: may have missed this, but this was the most interesting 160 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: punditry I saw in the last week after the debate. 161 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: Friday Night, Chris Matthews is on MSNBC and he said, 162 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: I want to know if Bernie is a Castro socialist 163 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: or a Sweden socialist, which is he is he with 164 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: Castro because of the socialist school to one when I 165 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: was young, I have been shot in Central Park. I 166 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: want to know which one he is. And I thought 167 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: that is an interesting of view. By the way, Chris 168 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: Matthews was not seen again that night on MSNBC. Yeah, well, 169 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a good point. I don't know 170 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: that people. I think the way this race is shaping up, 171 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: it almost doesn't matter though. I mean, he being branded 172 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: a socialist, whether you're a Castro socialist or a nice 173 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: clean Swedish socialist, I don't think it really matters. I 174 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: think a socialist as a socialist as a socialist our 175 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: in our current dialogue, in our current dialogue, and uh, 176 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, I think, look, Trump is gonna gonna make 177 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: mincemeat out of the guy. So you know, if the 178 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: Democrats really want to have a shot, they gotta wake 179 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: up and smell the coffee. Which is why Bloomberger is 180 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: willing to spend a billion dollars because he believes that 181 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: exactly he ought to spend a million on a Charisma transplant. 182 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Is that a thing? God, you go to like David 183 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: Lee Roth or I don't know. Some aging movie star 184 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: and and and get their charisma and planted. It's like, exactly, 185 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: there's a good for instance, he's not using it for 186 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: anything good. It's like those poop transplants people get to 187 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: get their digestive system going. I'll tell you what. It 188 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a very good look for the world's oldest 189 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: democracy and most powerful country to have two billionaire old 190 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: white men from the same neighborhood running against each other 191 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: for president. Yeah. Well, this is the America we live 192 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: in now. It's our politics, you know, it's it's gotten 193 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: well passed trying to predict what's going on. I mean, 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: I think I think I told you guys, I thought 195 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: Biden what was was probably going to be the nominee. 196 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: And I just it's staggering to me how poorly he's done. 197 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: It's really staggering. And we will we will end on 198 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: staggering Joe Biden as we are up against a hard break. 199 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: But la Chan with the Hoover Institution, Stanford University crossing 200 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: lines with long heat Chen it's always too short, but 201 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: it's it's great fun to talk on. He will do 202 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: it against soon, all right, thanks, good, Thanks, This podcast 203 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: is crossing lines with long heat chan if you want 204 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: to check that out sometime. Yeah, it's good. It's just 205 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: clear eyed realism. Um, you know, looking at politics. What 206 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: he said there at the end, you got to get 207 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: out of the prediction business. No precedent matters and getty