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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal. Hell that for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 1: Edith Steak is that woof woof? And Dan and Tye

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the Solid Verbal Boys and girls. My

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Speaker 1: name is ty Hildebrand joining me as always still over

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Speaker 1: there and very cold Chicago. Lloyd Andrewwstein, how you hold up?

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Speaker 1: I'm good.

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Speaker 2: I'm making pizzas I work out inside sometimes. And Gus

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Speaker 2: Melson is a UCF legend. Of course, I'm great.

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Speaker 1: Gus Melson. You kind of stole my thunder there because

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Speaker 1: I was going to play a breaking news sound. We'll

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Speaker 1: play that in a second. Okay, okay. Solid Verbal at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com as always is the email address. Don't

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Speaker 1: forget to follow along on social media Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: all the usual hotspots. We've added a twitch in there.

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Speaker 1: I played a game this weekend. Felt pretty good to

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Speaker 1: shake off a bit doing. Okay, we're now in year

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Speaker 1: two of Navy. Started out too, and I all got

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Speaker 1: a prime like four star recruit to come to Navy

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Speaker 1: and play quarterback and serve his country. Things are changing, man,

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Speaker 1: Things are changing. We're working on it, but got a

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Speaker 1: twitch brand, the great rebrand slash solid verbal.

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Speaker 2: Have you had Have you been fielding any offers to

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Speaker 2: become a new team's head yet?

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Speaker 1: No? No, we went six and six last year, so

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Speaker 1: the new offers aren't exactly too plentiful right now.

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Speaker 2: How loyal do you feel to the midshipman?

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm madis for the long haul. I'm

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Speaker 1: in it for the long haul, at least for the

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Speaker 1: nice mode lolo brand. Okay, shedding that brand, man going

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Speaker 1: going fresh here airing it out. I like it. Of

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Speaker 1: course we do have a Patreon as well at for

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Speaker 1: ballers dot com. Listen here is this is breaking news,

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Speaker 1: hot off the presses. I'm not going to play the

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Speaker 1: sound if you're going out to Verballers dot com. If

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Speaker 1: you look at our tears, you'll see that one of

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Speaker 1: the things we're doing in the off season is reverting

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Speaker 1: back to a concept, a thing, a topic list that

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Speaker 1: has long been very popular in the verballer hood, and

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Speaker 1: that is the off topic content. Dan. We've done a

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Speaker 1: couple shows like this over the years, and it seems

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Speaker 1: each time we do it gets a little bit more popular.

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Speaker 1: So your recall we did what was it The Pop

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Speaker 1: Punk and Emo Show with Bill Barnwell a few years back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all of them have been with Bill, right,

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Speaker 1: you have all of them. I don't think all of them.

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Speaker 2: I think we did sports video games with Bill. We

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Speaker 2: did pop punk, emo, Internet things.

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Speaker 1: We did do with Bill.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well, we'll do at least one of these

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Speaker 2: in the spring with Bill period.

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Speaker 1: As part of what we're doing on Patreon, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be doing one of these per month. It's a

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Speaker 1: Patreon only release. The release this week is going to

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Speaker 1: be you and I not only deep diving our historic

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Speaker 1: careers as youth and or high school athletes, but also

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Speaker 1: talking about where we feel right now about youth and

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Speaker 1: high school athletics.

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Speaker 2: Right of course, Oh there's so much. So there's our

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Speaker 2: personal stuff, there is the general archetypes. There are just

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Speaker 2: I mean that we have to dip in on what

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Speaker 2: it's like now, right just to see what that world

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Speaker 2: looks like in the present tense and not just what

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Speaker 2: it was in like nineteen ninety six. So youth sports

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Speaker 2: and everything surrounding. So we're going to talk what Okay,

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Speaker 2: so it's our own experiences. We're talking getting to and

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Speaker 2: from games, teammates, snacks, practice games, facilities, equipment, you name it.

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Speaker 1: We're going every kids got their own baseball helmet. Now

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Speaker 1: what is this world coming to? Yeah? Gen Z re

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Speaker 1: Ballers one more time is where you can find all

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Speaker 1: that info on the Patreon Dan. So we got a

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Speaker 1: Tuesday show, a Thursday show, and then the off topic

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Speaker 1: show is going to drop a little later on in

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Speaker 1: the week for the Patreon subs and only the Patreon

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Speaker 1: subs Dance. Yeah exclusive. Today's show, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: what happens if Hell freeze is over. You may be

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Speaker 1: wondering why are we playing an eight bit version of

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Speaker 1: Hotel California? Dan, Care to explain yourself?

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Speaker 2: I myself, I'm wondering too. The Eagles had a Hell

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Speaker 2: Freezes Over tour. That's a reunion tour, like they're never

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Speaker 2: going to get back together until Hell freezes over. And

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Speaker 2: then they got back together and called it that. Have

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Speaker 2: you seen the Eagles documentary?

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Speaker 1: By the way, I believe it's.

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Speaker 2: Just called the Eagles TI, Hi, you need to see

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Speaker 2: the Eagles documentary. Why it's well, first of all, there's

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Speaker 2: so much acrimony and hate in the band that it's

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Speaker 2: like a It's a two part like four and a

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Speaker 2: half hour documentary, and the first part is the original

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Speaker 2: story of the Eagles, like how they came together and

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Speaker 2: they had these common friends and this is what recording

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Speaker 2: this seminal album was like, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And then the second part.

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Speaker 2: Is later stage Eagles And I'm not even a big

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Speaker 2: Eagles fan at all. I just like wild stories about

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Speaker 2: seventies and eighties rock, I guess. And the second part

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Speaker 2: is like they just hated each other and kept going

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Speaker 2: on tour because people kept wanting to see that. You

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Speaker 2: have to watch it. Let me see where it's streaming.

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Speaker 2: The Eagles documentary is streaming. It looks like Amazon.

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Speaker 1: You can watch it. Yeah, you can watch a history

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Speaker 1: of the Eagles on Amazon. This is how you know

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Speaker 1: it's the off season here on the solid verbal as

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Speaker 1: we talk about Eagles documentaries.

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Speaker 2: But I might see the sane I might say that

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Speaker 2: you don't have like well formed Don Felder thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I may have an appetite for a show like that.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I think you need another topic for one

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Speaker 1: of our off topic shows. Hey, maybe we'll just do

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Speaker 1: a documentary episode. I'm down with that. Okay, so today's show,

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Speaker 1: Hell Freezes Over. We've been doing the thing the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. By the way, we're totally steering into

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Speaker 1: the whole cold theme right now. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: harvest the day after Tomorrow, trying to find some clips

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Speaker 1: out of there, because you recall there's that deep freeze

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Speaker 1: of course scene, but they're real. There's like no good

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Speaker 1: sounds in there that I could yank, So I'm glad

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Speaker 1: we went this direction instead. Anyway, Look, we've been looking

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Speaker 1: at teams that are down and out or teams that

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Speaker 1: are on the cusp for the last few weeks. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course we had the Valentine's show, but that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm gone Now this one we're looking at from a

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Speaker 1: different perspective. We're so used to talking about teams that

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Speaker 1: are low. What do they have to do to get

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Speaker 1: to the Promised Land? What about a team like Alabama,

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Speaker 1: A team like Alabama, team like Clemson that has ruled

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Speaker 1: the roost for ah gosh, recent memory, all of recent memory,

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Speaker 1: Dan per two, has to happen, not part say, what

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Speaker 1: has to happen for Hell to freeze over and for

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Speaker 1: a team like Obama to come crashing down to earth,

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Speaker 1: loosely connecting real world events that affect us personally to

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Speaker 1: college football, vague concepts. It's what we do here, ty

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Speaker 1: on the Soliverble, That's what we do. That is the

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Speaker 1: anthem of the off season. Before we do though market news.

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Speaker 1: Not going forward like I usually do, but still getting.

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Speaker 2: Happy with it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what do we have? Gus Melson is back, baby.

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Speaker 1: UCF has named gust Melzon it's new head football coach.

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Speaker 1: You'll recall he was fired back in December after eight

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Speaker 1: seasons at Auburn. He went sixty eight and thirty five,

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Speaker 1: was thirty nine and twenty seven in SEC play, obviously

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Speaker 1: took Auburn to the National Championship game in his very

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Speaker 1: first season back in twenty thirteen. He emerged really just

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Speaker 1: this weekend as the leading candidate to replace Josh Hypel

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Speaker 1: takes over at Tennessee, and he has now officially gotten

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Speaker 1: the job. Quote. I'm thrilled to be the head coach

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Speaker 1: at UCF, and I truly look forward to being part

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Speaker 1: of Night Nation. Thank you, Gus. So look say what

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Speaker 1: you want about Gus Balazan. This is a good hire

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Speaker 1: I think for UCF. Yeah, I agree, I think this

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Speaker 1: is a splash hire to go out and get Malason

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Speaker 1: late in the cycle, to bring a guy down there who, look,

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Speaker 1: there's an incredible amount of talent in South Florida that

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Speaker 1: he can work with. We know he's got an offense

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Speaker 1: that's very attractive to skill talent. And again UCF seems

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Speaker 1: to find a guy who can come in and do

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Speaker 1: the thing on offense. If nothing else, they will be

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Speaker 1: very exciting to watch when they have the football correct.

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Speaker 2: Some mixed results in hiring assistants at Auburn, but the

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Speaker 2: track record is overwhelmingly positive, even with the mediocre down

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Speaker 2: years and the inconsistencies and the struggles finding and developing

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Speaker 2: quarterbacks at times. Certainly there were highs to the Jarrett

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Speaker 2: stinnam era and Cam Newton and you know, you look

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Speaker 2: back and there were some really you know, Nick Marshall,

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Speaker 2: they're promising dudes. But I think what he'll be able

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Speaker 2: to do at UCF is continue the successes. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how you know, if he goes eleven and one

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Speaker 2: at UCF this year, next year, whatever, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how long he's going to be there. With how much

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Speaker 2: turnover there is among the SEC and I guess acc

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Speaker 2: coaching ranks if he's going to stay in the Southeastern footprint.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, kind of seems like a no brainer. Should

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Speaker 2: be able to recruit very well, has recruiting connections across

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Speaker 2: the region, and Lord knows that there are going to

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Speaker 2: be transfers available from Miami, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: Georgia Tech, that kind of thing to help populate that roster.

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Speaker 2: So I would imagine u CF is going to position

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Speaker 2: itself very well. I'm curious to see who he hires

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Speaker 2: to round out that staff, But yeah, UCF is one

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Speaker 2: of those jobs, one of the group of five jobs

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Speaker 2: along with I suppose Houston that geographically has positioned itself

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Speaker 2: in a really nice place. Memphis. Boise State doesn't have

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Speaker 2: the geography, but has the track record of winning where

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Speaker 2: what you know, going to Tennessee, South Carolina schools that

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Speaker 2: aren't necessarily set up infrastructure wise, roster wise to succeed,

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Speaker 2: Whereas you know, inheriting, Dylan Gabriel's pretty good start, pretty

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Speaker 2: good start if you're Gus Malson. So I expect impressive

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Speaker 2: things from Malson and the Knights. I do as well,

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Speaker 2: any other news here jumping out to you. Penn State's losing.

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Speaker 2: It looks like Tony Banks co d C. So it has

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Speaker 2: been with James Franklin, Brent Prye. I think he's a

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Speaker 2: secondary's coach as well or safety's coach for Penn State.

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Speaker 2: Looks like he's going to Tennessee to become defensive coordinator

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Speaker 2: for Josh Hipel. Just a connected world. I don't you

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Speaker 2: have strong Tony Banks not oddly opinions. No, oka A

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Speaker 2: State's defense has largely been good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of a bump step back this year, but nonetheless.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean it's always a good sign. I

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Speaker 2: will I will maintain this. Always a good sign to

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Speaker 2: have your coaches hired away from your staff instead of

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Speaker 2: having to fire them. You don't have to pay them,

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Speaker 2: You get paid, and it's a good reflection on your

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Speaker 2: head coach in terms of hiring practices. So that's hopefully

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Speaker 2: it all works out for Tennessee. I saw Oregon's twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty starting quarterback Tyler Shuck announced his entry into the

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Speaker 2: transfer portal. It certainly seemed like that job is going

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Speaker 2: to be wide open, and I know I and a

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Speaker 2: lot of Oregon fans had high hopes for him going

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Speaker 2: into this year with Joe moorehead and it seemed like

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Speaker 2: his numbers I think don't tell the full story. Times

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Speaker 2: he did struggle and it didn't seem like the long

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Speaker 2: term answer for Oregon. But I hope he finds a

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Speaker 2: good home somewhere else, be it on the West Coast

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Speaker 2: wherever that whoever. In a lot of teams need a

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Speaker 2: hopefully quality quarterback, and he is at his best equality quarterback.

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Speaker 2: So hope it works out. And I think he's immediately eligible.

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Speaker 2: I think he has both because of the way that

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Speaker 2: eligibility has worked after the twenty twenty season and because

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Speaker 2: of how quickly he graduated. I believe he has three

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Speaker 2: years of eligibility remaining, so Brady White situation, if you will,

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Speaker 2: which is great.

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Speaker 1: I hope it works out.

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Speaker 2: I hope he finds a place in locks in and

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Speaker 2: is a good quarterback all right, But Oregon is I

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Speaker 2: think decent enough in terms of depth of quarterback right now.

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Speaker 2: Looks like Anthony Brown's.

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Speaker 1: Probably gonna start the season, which I hope is good.

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Speaker 2: I hope somebody who is inconsistent and tore both acls

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Speaker 2: at Boston Coe, which works out surrounded by better talent.

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Speaker 2: I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that a better situation. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna be surrounded by a number of talented receivers,

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Speaker 2: are now experienced offensive line as Joe moorehead calling the plays,

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Speaker 2: and they have a couple of blue chips behind him,

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Speaker 2: including one true freshman who's pretty well regarded in Ty Thompson.

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Speaker 2: So we shall see, we shall see. I don't I

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Speaker 2: don't think you're going to the playoff for winning a

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Speaker 2: national championship necessarily with that quarterback room. But incremental improvement

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Speaker 2: is always good.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Brown, Okay, yeah, we'll see. Let's get to our game, Dan,

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Speaker 1: let's do it. Hell freezing over. So I think we

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Speaker 1: have to come to an understanding here. Right out of

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Speaker 1: the shoot. We've got got a handful of teams listed.

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Speaker 1: We've got Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Notre Dame Georgia.

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Speaker 1: So whats what we're asking here is what would it

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Speaker 1: take for each of these programs the spiral out of

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Speaker 1: control and at a minimum fall down from the pedestal

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Speaker 1: where they currently find themselves. So, like, we could start

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Speaker 1: with Alabama or Clemson, since those are the two most

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Speaker 1: obvious ones. But I think we have to ask first

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Speaker 1: and foremost about each team what happens if the coach leaves.

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Speaker 1: That's the most obvious thing. That's the low hanging fruit.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to do the thing where we talk

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Speaker 1: about rules and fractions because rules and fractions could obviously

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Speaker 1: be an unforeseen event that affects any of these schools

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Speaker 1: in a very negative way. That's also low hanging fruit.

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Speaker 1: But beyond that, I have some thoughts here on some

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Speaker 1: of these teams. I know you do as well. Why

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Speaker 1: don't we start with Alabama?

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Speaker 2: Should we define what we mean falling from glory and help,

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Speaker 2: raising over and careening back down to ours? Like sure,

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Speaker 2: from from glory to Gasparilla, glory to gain. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that a team is going to utterly collapse

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Speaker 2: and get the death penalty. Excuse me, English, go one

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Speaker 2: and eleven. But you go from winning double digit games

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Speaker 2: to seven point two to eight point one games a

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Speaker 2: year over a seven year spam.

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Speaker 1: It's like a Miami situation we talked about Larry Koker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a number of all of these teams

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Speaker 2: that we've listed have koreem back down to Earth at

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Speaker 2: some point for reasons that I think is.

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Speaker 1: An important point that I wanted to remind everyone of. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even though it seems like there is no possible way

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Speaker 1: in Alabama or a Clemson or in Ohio State is

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Speaker 1: going to come back down to Earth, we have seen

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Speaker 1: it time and again. It happens. It's going to happen

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Speaker 1: again for all of these schools without fail. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: there's okay, so we can discuss all that here, but

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Speaker 1: it will happen at some point.

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Speaker 2: It goes without saying, like you mentioned that, not only

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Speaker 2: do you have to talk about coaching changes, but yes,

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Speaker 2: let's get it right out of the way right now,

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Speaker 2: if either one of these if any of these schools

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Speaker 2: loses a coach and hires a bad coach, it can

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Speaker 2: very easily happen. I think we need to go into

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Speaker 2: some more of more detail on a more granular level,

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Speaker 2: like what specific to these schools could because Ohio State's

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Speaker 2: context is very different from Notre Dame's context and Oklahoma, Oregon, Bama, Clemson, Georgia, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Even though you know there are some overlaps in terms

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Speaker 2: of conference with say Clemson and Notre Dame this past

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Speaker 2: year or Alabama and Georgia whatever, what we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: specific to those schools because there are certainly Oh you

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Speaker 2: start a bad quarterback.

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Speaker 1: And you became bad.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that happens to everybody, literally everybody. We're going to

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Speaker 2: try and avoid the the layups, the guppies.

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Speaker 1: Of an answer as best we can. So, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: that being said. Let's start with Alabama. Yeah, Alabama, your

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Speaker 1: national champion, Nick Saban, greatest coach of all time, Nick

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Speaker 1: Saban leaves, Nick Saban decides, well, could you give me

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Speaker 1: a Nick Saban stays in the koreem as well, do

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Speaker 1: you have that within you? I think so? Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean I think it needs to be said that if

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Speaker 1: Saban leaves, I don't know if a Korean's out of control,

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Speaker 1: but that's probably the best chance of it happening, right, agreed,

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Speaker 1: of course? Yeah? Yeah. Obviously Bama is so well rounded

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Speaker 1: at this point that you can't just point to, like

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Speaker 1: you said, a bad year or two at quarterback and

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Speaker 1: that being the tip of the iceberg that leads to

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Speaker 1: the downfall. I think the angle here is more centered

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Speaker 1: around recruiting, particularly with teams around Bama getting good enough

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Speaker 1: that it's harder for Bama to recruit. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: we talked about Miami, how Alabama was moving into that

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Speaker 1: South Florida territory, building a pipeline for itself, siphoning off

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Speaker 1: some of that top talent. But if Florida State gets better,

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Speaker 1: if they rise up, if Florida can continue itch trend,

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Speaker 1: if Georgia can continue itch trend, if Miami could reclaim

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Speaker 1: the swagger. There are a lot of ifs here as

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Speaker 1: a game of hypotheticals, mind you, even if Gus Melson

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Speaker 1: can come in and poach a couple kids, more recruiting

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Speaker 1: competition for that talent over humble cycles, I think is

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Speaker 1: one way that you could start to see things trend

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Speaker 1: in a different direction.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's based in reality, because.

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Speaker 1: None of this is based in reality. But continue, No,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: There are certain things about Alabama that are based in reality.

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Speaker 2: The things that are based in reality about.

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Speaker 1: Alabama is.

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Speaker 2: An influx of quarterbacks, slash systems, slash coaches doing interesting

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Speaker 2: enough things to undermine Nick Saban's ability to coach an

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Speaker 2: eleven twelve win team consistently because of innovation that Nick

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Speaker 2: Saban has generally capitalized on. But he hasn't been at

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Speaker 2: the forefront. He hasn't been in the forefront of running

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Speaker 2: the spread. He hasn't been at the forefront of playing

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Speaker 2: up tempo, of using RPOs. You know, there was that

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Speaker 2: inflection moment or moments when we were talking about the

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Speaker 2: SEC banning you know how quickly teams can play, and

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Speaker 2: it's saying, you know, is this what we want football

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Speaker 2: to be? So I think what it is is actually

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Speaker 2: innovation because I don't think anybody's going to pay closer

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Speaker 2: attention to the little things that Nick Saban does because

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Speaker 2: he keeps having to overhaul his staff every year and

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Speaker 2: nothing changes. They just keep winning national championships or vying

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Speaker 2: for national championships. They're in that playoff conversation. They're of

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Speaker 2: that caliber. So what it is is, essentially, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Tennessee and South Carolina and LSU each find their own

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Speaker 2: version of Hugh Freeze's system slash Johnny Manziel slash, the

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Speaker 2: combination of Steve Spurrier and Steve Garcia, Steven Garcia guys

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Speaker 2: like that. I think if we get a perfect storm

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Speaker 2: of that every year, I think that's the closest thing

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Speaker 2: because I don't think the recruiting is ever going to

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Speaker 2: fall off. The track record is too vast and too

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Speaker 2: deep that no coach is there a coach right now

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Speaker 2: that could come in to the SEC and say, my

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Speaker 2: track record is analogous or within arm's reach of what

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Speaker 2: Nick Saban has done in terms of winning and developing

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Speaker 2: NFL council.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he just signed the best class of all time,

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Speaker 1: right right.

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Speaker 2: So being out recruited or seeing recruiting fall off in

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Speaker 2: an appreciable way I don't think is based in reality.

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Speaker 2: I think it's much more that more and more talented

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Speaker 2: coaches take SEC money. Like if Ed Orizron doesn't work out,

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Speaker 2: all of the sudden, lsu hires Lincoln Riley, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden they become unbelievable killers in a way

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Speaker 2: that they only were that one season with Joe Brady

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Speaker 2: and Joe Burrow. Like, I think that's where we're heading,

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Speaker 2: That the conference becomes oh stacked and top heavy with

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Speaker 2: coaching and quarterback and overall talent that the conference just

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Speaker 2: can't help but to beat itself up. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: side of that, Yeah, I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: I think it has to come from within the SEC too,

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Speaker 1: From within the walls, coming from within the house, within

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Speaker 1: the walls of the SEC is the best chance of

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Speaker 1: this conflict rising up because look, for college football fans,

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Speaker 1: at least to some extent, the Clemson rivalry between Clemson Alabama. Look,

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Speaker 1: it's still interesting, maybe not as interesting as it used

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Speaker 1: to be because they're in it every year, But that

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Speaker 1: is not going to destroy Alabama. What would really take

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Speaker 1: a toll on Bama as if it found a counterbalance

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Speaker 1: somewhere else in the SEC. And to be fair, everybody

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Speaker 1: in the conference has ripped their hair out for the

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Speaker 1: entire Nick saban Era trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: get to be that counterbalance. No one's really done consistently yet,

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Speaker 1: I think at a.

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Speaker 2: Minute, and the ones, the ones that occasionally do, are

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Speaker 2: only that dangerous for blips.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years.

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Speaker 2: It's LSU for a season, or they are kind of

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Speaker 2: half a team with an amazing defense, but they can't

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Speaker 2: put it together consistently on offense. What they didn't cross

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Speaker 2: the fifty in a national championship after beating Alabama nine

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Speaker 2: to six earlier in the year. It's ole Miss imploding

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Speaker 2: under Hugh Freeze. It's Georgia not quite getting over the

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Speaker 2: hump teams like that where nobody's been able to put

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Speaker 2: it together with any sort of consistency, with Auburn being

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Speaker 2: the closest.

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Speaker 1: And they still fired their coach. You know, the the LSU,

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Speaker 1: The combo of LSU and A and M in the

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Speaker 1: SEC West is really interesting to me. Sure, that's really

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Speaker 1: interesting to me. And I do think that Jimbo Fisher

404
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Speaker 1: is slowly but surely going to build up A and M.

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Speaker 1: We'll see what Orgeron could do. He had a tough year,

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Speaker 1: want to turn over obviously weird year with COVID. But

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Speaker 1: you know, provided they can continue to build those programs,

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Speaker 1: that would be some interesting competition for sure for Alabama

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Speaker 1: it already is, but to see those teams take their

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Speaker 1: game to another level would would help this argument. Well,

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Speaker 1: isn't there also still the even teams that lose consistent

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Speaker 1: consistently in the SEC, with some exceptions, generally have an

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Speaker 1: appealing element to their team. Be it the Kentucky defense,

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Speaker 1: be it you know, how feisty. I suppose it an

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Speaker 1: unquantifiable way. Arkansas was this year with a real quarterback

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Speaker 1: and an improved defense, and Mississippi State for forever had

417
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Speaker 1: like this kind of dangerous offense with times an NFL

418
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Speaker 1: quarterback and Dak Prescott like there were, there are always elements.

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Speaker 1: So I think if the competence floor is raised in

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Speaker 1: that every week Alabama plays a team who's at least

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Speaker 1: very good at one point three, things that becomes interesting.

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Speaker 1: That becomes quite interesting. Alabama is still going to win

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Speaker 1: ten games a year. But if that, if that opens

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Speaker 1: Alabama up to losing fifteen thirteen to Arkansas one random,

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Speaker 1: weird year, that changes things, That changes the calculus. But

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Speaker 1: we're talking about something that still remains five steps away.

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Speaker 1: Well exactly, you know one other thing here about Bama

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to move on to Clemson. And

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Speaker 1: here's why I bring you.

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Speaker 2: Need to also tell me is there anything internal about

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Speaker 2: Alabama that would worry you internal?

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Speaker 1: Right?

433
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: So we internally at Auburn that there was pressure and

434
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: there were factions, and Alabama there's a ton of pressure

435
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: to win. And so obviously if we're going to happen

436
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: by now where Nick Saban didn't want to deal with

437
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: the internal politics both within the athletic department and the

438
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: booster community to Alabama and everything going on, he'd be gone.

439
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: But he has organized all those things behind him in lockstep.

440
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: So I think that's it.

441
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: I think that's that's it in terms of internal hope

442
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: because a lot of places it's not wanting to deal

443
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: with the politics, relationships running sour with the AD and

444
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: with whoever the chancellor, and then it's then a coach

445
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: will find a way out to go.

446
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: I just don't see that for Saban. Hard to see. Yeah,

447
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: he's a legend. Yeah. What I was going to say is,

448
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: you know, one of I think the common themes that

449
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: will have certainly with Clemson, I at least want to

450
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: discuss it with Clemson and some of these other schools

451
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: here the prospect of assistant coaches leaving, that's not has

452
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: it affected Bama? Not as big a deal for Bama

453
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: right they are maybe by at all sheer force of

454
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: will from Nick Saban and his ability to organize and

455
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: create a system that's plug and play for new coaches

456
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: and players and the like, that has not been something

457
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: that has really slowed him down. We've had this story

458
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: now for what feels like five years running about assistance

459
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: leaving going elsewhere. To your point from earlier, when these

460
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: guys are in demand, that obviously speaks highly of your program.

461
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: But we've seen it time and again, big time assistants

462
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: are leaving. Alabama keeps getting better.

463
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: So we talk about how it could potentially and it

464
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: would need a lot of different elements to go wrong

465
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: for Alabama with Nick Saban. What is an Alabama team

466
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: who is built to win big? They pour resources into

467
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: the program, unlike many and most of all schools and

468
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: college major college football. So the resources are there, the

469
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: reputation is there, the NFL draft factory is there, the

470
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: high profile elements to the program is there. Alabama is

471
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: as big as it gets. You can't hire the wrong coach.

472
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: But is there anything specific about Alabama post Nick Saban

473
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: that worries you? Because I have a couple of things. Well, yeah, primarily,

474
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: nobody's Nick. That's the number one thing.

475
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: Nobody's Nick Saban, And it's very difficult to try and

476
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: match that. To that point, though, we have seed some

477
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: recent success with Ryan Day taking over for a legend

478
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: in his own right in aben Meyer one full season,

479
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: one full season, right, and I have that written down here.

480
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: I do want to talk more about that. Yeah, but

481
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: there is some precedent, at least here in the early

482
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: going that it seems like that situation is going to

483
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: work out well. I do think it's going to have

484
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: to be somebody who has familiarity with the program, who

485
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: coached under Sabin. I was probably not Sarkesian at this point,

486
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: but somebody like that that the Alabama brass will be

487
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: comfortable with, who can establish some means of continuity going

488
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: from Saban serving as that bridge to the next generation.

489
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: It's going to take somebody who.

490
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: Knows maybe, yeah, And that's what we've seen across the

491
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: country with some of these teams, not Notre Dame, but

492
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: across the number of these teams.

493
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: There's that familiarity.

494
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley was the coordinator at Oklahoma before taking over.

495
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: Same goes for Ryan Day. Mario Christobal was in that

496
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: role at Oregon and so that certainly helps. And Clemson

497
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: had a receivers coach in Dabo Sweeney before he took over.

498
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: So that helps.

499
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: My worry with that is the expectations at Alabama, given

500
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: what Nick Saban has done, are unmatchable. I mean, Urban

501
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: Meyer won how many national championships at Ohio State. One

502
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: that's matchable. I mean, he had Ohio State playing on

503
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: a crazy level, but they win the first college football

504
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: Playoff and then don't, so the expectations for keeping the

505
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: train going. I don't think anybody can possibly succeeded Alabama

506
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: after Nick Saban, directly after Nick Saban, whoever it is,

507
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: is going to get fired within four years. Even if

508
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: it's Dabosweeny, he's gonna get fired.

509
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: Let's move over to Dabbo. Let's talk about Clemson. So

510
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: I asked this question to Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated

511
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: when I had him on the show, I think a

512
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: year ago, and it was almost verbatim, like what does

513
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: it take for Clemson to fall back to Earth? And

514
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: he didn't really have a good answer for it, but

515
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: his answer was staff changes. If we saw staff exodus, right,

516
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: So Brent vannables, if he leaves, if the offensive staff

517
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: will leaves, if we've got coaches who are suddenly so

518
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: in demand that they have to take these jobs, and

519
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: Dabo is now looking to put in place a new cabinet,

520
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: what kind of effect would that have? Now? But by

521
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: now I think it's pretty well known how Dabo got

522
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: his start at Clemson. He was a relatively inexperienced coach.

523
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: He got the head role, and he decided that he

524
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: wanted to allot a lot of his budget to go

525
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: out and get the best assistant coach is possible to

526
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: help support him. That model has obviously worked. Clemson's a

527
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: juggernaut now. But if at this point some of those

528
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: coaches were to leave, what kind of downstream effect would

529
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: that have? Clemson is still obviously a place where people

530
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: would want to go and coach, but any kind of

531
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: mass turnover if Brent Vannables decides to leave and take

532
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: ahead job at some point in time, you know, so

533
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: much of that program is built around a really solid defense.

534
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: If he leaves, what happens is that something that can

535
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: be replaced. We have not seen what Dabbo can do

536
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: with the like a Saban level of coaching turnovers, So

537
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: that to me seems like the most obvious place to

538
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: go first. Here.

539
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: What's interesting to me about Clemson is how patient are

540
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: they now versus how patient were they with Tommy Bowden

541
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: winning seven games every year in the two thousand and

542
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: seven eight games compared to win and I had to

543
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: give myself a refresher. But in twenty ten Clemson went

544
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: six and seven. They lost the Minukey car Care Bowl

545
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: to USF offensive coordinator of that Clemson team Billion Napier

546
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: billion fired ye Billionnapier defensive coordinator Kevin Steele. Kind of

547
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: a dream staff if you were to look back on

548
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: it now in terms of what those guys have done since.

549
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: And certainly you can point to what Kevin Steele did

550
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: at Clemson and which cost him his tenure at Clemson.

551
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: It just wasn't a fit by the end of things.

552
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: But the patients with an unknown, which Dabosweeney very much

553
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: was when they hired him, and then in twenty ten

554
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: when they have a losing record, and since then they've

555
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: only had double digit win seasons. So what does that

556
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: patience look like? If they replace Dabbo with somebody who's

557
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: pretty good or good or interesting or coming from across

558
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: the country something like that, and they go six and

559
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: seven in their third year, what are the expectations now

560
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: after I mean three of the four of the last

561
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: five years they've won fourteen, fourteen, fifteen and fourteen games.

562
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: What does that patience look like? How is Dabo's calculus

563
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: change that program? I think the danger coming from the

564
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: call in the house doesn't really exist because the acc

565
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: is at a point where who is legitimately dangerous? Which

566
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: grouping of teams right now could we even envision being

567
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: legitimately dangerous.

568
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: It's hard to see. To me, it's hard to see.

569
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, I don't see an existential threat there.

570
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: I think the existential threat is obviously Dabbo leaving. But

571
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: even if Dabo stays there, it's that he has grown

572
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: so powerful there that maybe the drive to keep hiring

573
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: and maintaining the assistance and that culture there where he's

574
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: become an emperor figure, not just figure figure, not just

575
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: like Nick Saban has done, but he has done it

576
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: in a place that essentially hasn't seen this level of

577
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: success in what thirty years. Danny Ford was good in

578
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: the eighties, but they were okay with seven win seasons

579
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: in the nineties and two thousands. So knowing that and

580
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: knowing that he has that status, how motivated is Dabbo

581
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: on the throne If he has to do what Nick

582
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: Saban does, which is completely overhauling his staff every or

583
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: every two or every two and a half year or

584
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: something like that, that to me is the great unknown.

585
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: So I think you're right on that.

586
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: The other point that I'd bring up is Clemson has

587
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: had really good quarterback play in recent memory. Is that

588
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: a slight against Kyle Parker It kind of is. Yeah,

589
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: he hit twenty home runs and through twenty touchdown in

590
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: a single year. But if you look at the track

591
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: record at Clemson of quarterbacks, go back to Taj Boyd.

592
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, let's go back ten years, TODJ Boyd full stout, Yeah,

593
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: Shaun Watson, obviously, Trevor Lawrence. They have really hit on quarterbacks.

594
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: It seems like the dj UIL is going to be fine. Sure,

595
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: but if there is a year where they miss or

596
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: two years where they miss, I don't know if I'm

597
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: as confident in Clemson digging out from that as I

598
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: would be in Alabama.

599
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: What level quarterback miss would would take them from the

600
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: playoff to you know, the Minukey car care Ball if

601
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: that still exists. I mean, like aus Kelly Bryant was

602
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: a replacement level quarterback and he took him to the playoff. Right,

603
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: So we we are talking, can can we do an

604
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: exercise that we promise is not I don't think what

605
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: is definitely gonna come off as insulting, Like I'm looking

606
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: at this year's quarterback efficiency rankings. These are like the

607
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: most efficient quarterbacks across the country and conference games. So

608
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: could Jack Plumber perdue part time starter take Clemson too

609
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: the playoff? No, Max Duggan.

610
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to throw a TCU quarterback out,

611
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna say yes.

612
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: So Adrian Martinez. I think all of these answers are

613
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: probably yes, just because the acc that defense Travis etn

614
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: I know it was a different line this year, but

615
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm just if you're averaging out for talent.

616
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: Reason, consider that no quarterback at all, just like they.

617
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: Start Amari Rodgers. That's a quarterback, like an emergency quarterback.

618
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: Chase Brice. Yeah, Chase Price would not have been able

619
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: to take Clemson too the playoff to me, but you

620
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: might have to go pretty far down this like filter

621
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: Covid could take Clemson to the playoff.

622
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: I know they're so good at all the other positions,

623
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: but I do feel like if you get like a

624
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: year or two in there with really down quarterback play,

625
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

626
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: To me, though, there is an element of if Clemson

627
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 2: has the eighty fourth most productive quarterback in the nation

628
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: but is still surrounded by crazy five star talent up front, receiver,

629
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: running back, defense, doing everything, you know, shouldering the load.

630
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 2: You're getting the absolute best quarterback transfer to Clemson, aren't you?

631
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: More than likely? Yeah, it's not gonna last more than

632
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: a year. JT.

633
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: Daniels is going to Clemson. Whoever that that headline transfer

634
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: portal quarterback is just can go to Clemson and immediately

635
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: step in and succeed. So it's hard to see at

636
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: Clemson quarterback issues for multiple years existing. I think it's

637
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: the laziness. I think it's the attrition, and I think

638
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: it's what what does Clemson look like in terms of

639
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: how attractive it is? If Dabbo leaves for whatever reason.

640
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: He leads to start like a talk podcast for the

641
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: Ringer could see it.

642
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: How attractive is an open Clemson job? Premium premium results

643
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: these past few years, superpower results. What type of name

644
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: does Clemson attract? Is it internal with Venables or Tony

645
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: Elliott or are they are they taking a big swing

646
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: with Lincoln Riley or whoever. I don't know why Lincoln

647
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: Riley would leave Norman. He's got a very good at

648
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: a home. But I don't know, all right, do you

649
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: I see?

650
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

651
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, Clemson still like it's not a headline

652
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: program in terms of national awareness in the way that Alabama,

653
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 2: Ohio State are, even though the results are there. I wonder,

654
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: I wonder what type of external name Clemson can attract.

655
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: To me.

656
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 2: It's not as obvious as one of the other schools

657
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: we're talking about, so that to me.

658
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: Is an issue.

659
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: It's attrition internally and it's externally. What can they attract externally?

660
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: Let's go to Oklahoma since you mentioned Lincoln Riley. Okay,

661
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: first things first, as we've been acknowledging with each of

662
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: our teams here, in all cases the coach leaving will

663
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: be somewhat catastrophic. Lincoln Riley going to the NFL will

664
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: be really catastrophic for you think, So I do, I

665
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: do explain. I think he is about as good of

666
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: a candidates you're going to find who you can get

667
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: him when he's young and perhaps willing to stay for

668
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: like fifteen years. Yeah, it's sort of rare to find

669
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: those guys anymore. And he seems really happy there, seems

670
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: to be building something there, and to lose somebody like that,

671
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: in effect, you're kind of starting over, So that'd be

672
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: a big deal. And I also think the way that

673
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: he has put his brand on the program has been

674
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: really notable. You know. The other point I have here

675
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: is if he goes a year or two missing that

676
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: high level quarterback play, Oklahoma is not good enough on defense.

677
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: They haven't been to kind of make up the difference

678
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: for an offense that can't score right. So, I think

679
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: I think that's a very obvious thing to point out.

680
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley leaving going to the NFL, that's a problem.

681
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I don't know where the program goes from there. Clearly,

682
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: you know a historic program that's going to attract top

683
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: coaching talent. But to start over with somebody in a

684
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: different mindset, that's the problem. And then you're not fully starting.

685
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: Over if you hire internal like Lincoln Riley was, if

686
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: you hire you know, Alex Grinch or somebody like that.

687
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: Correct, But is Alex Grinch gonna pump out multiple Heisman

688
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: Trophy winning quarterbacks.

689
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: No, it's an unsustainable pattern. But yeah, I understand what

690
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: you're saying.

691
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: I think some combination of link in either leaving or

692
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: missing a few years at the quarterback position, specifically at

693
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: the quarterback position, since that's really where he's made his Hay.

694
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: Some combination of those two things could be enough to

695
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: take this program in a much, much different direction.

696
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: Oklahoma is the one I might feel the best about

697
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 2: actually in this situation. Who the hell are you scared

698
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: of in the Big Twelve right now? Unless you play

699
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: Kansas State literally every week on the schedule, Who are

700
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: you actually scared is going to rise up to become

701
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: a superpower? I guess you could be concerned about Texas,

702
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: but kind of been there, done that. We're talking about

703
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 2: Steve Sarkisian, who I have high hopes for given what

704
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: I've seen out of recent offenses, but being an offensive

705
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: coordinator is very different.

706
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: We called him seven win Steve for a resent. That's right,

707
00:40:59,080 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

708
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: So Oklahoma is a place that all the resources are there.

709
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: The pressure to win national championships is not there. The

710
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: pressure just win the Big Twelve, be a national contender,

711
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: get into the playoff, you know, ring some bells of

712
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: other powers occasionally, or decent teams whatever. Oklahoma's better positioned

713
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: to succeed in their conference in the long term than

714
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: maybe any of these teams, just because of what their

715
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: schedule looks like. It's a mess of a middle class

716
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: of flawed teams that do some things well. But right now,

717
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: Iowa State's interesting. I don't know how long people think

718
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: Matt Campbell's going to be an ames. I hope it's

719
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: for a very long time. But that doesn't seem like

720
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 2: a sustainable partnership because he's just going to attract that

721
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: much attention. So Oklahoma should be able to whether it's

722
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 2: internally externally, what will help Hell to freeze over and

723
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: see Oklahoma back in the I guess the depths of

724
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: where they were in the Bob Stoops era, which is

725
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: holidayble type games or whatever Ali Mobile, whatever the analog is.

726
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: Now what that game is is basically not just missing

727
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: on quarterbacks, but missing on more defensive coordinators. Lincoln Riley

728
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 2: was also the guy who kept Mike Stoops on board

729
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: for I think almost assuredly too long. So that's an

730
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: issue that if they keep having to win fifty one

731
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: to forty eight games, they're going to keep losing more

732
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: and more. So the defense has taken nice steps forward,

733
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: but you lose Alex Grinch and you make another dut

734
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: of a higher well, that's that's a pretty bad issue

735
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: that's hard to overcome no matter how good. You are

736
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: detracting the nation's best quarterbacks. But I still think Oklahoma,

737
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: because of how well set up they are to succeed

738
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 2: in the Big Twelve, will attract a bigger.

739
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: Name than Clemson.

740
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: I think Clemson set up to win an acc But

741
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: Clemson is dabbo, whereas Oklahoma has had you know, they've

742
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 2: had blips of of bad runs. But we're still talking

743
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: about Bob Stoop is an all time great college football coach.

744
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: I think he was just inducted in the Hall of Fame.

745
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: You talk Barry Switzer, you're talking now Lincoln Riley, Like

746
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: there is it's very clearly a school that's going to

747
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: set up a coach to succeed. I think it's bad

748
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator hires and I guess Texas fully becoming a

749
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: full on super how Yeah, that was the other assumption

750
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: that I was going to push back. There's like nine

751
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: s's at the end of that word guess, well, of course,

752
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: But let's unpack that a little bit.

753
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like we've been waiting a while for

754
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: the Big Twelve. To the middle class of the Big Twelve.

755
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: Let's say to rise up and make it a much

756
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: deeper conference. Now, look, week in week out, there's a

757
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: lot of offense generally in the Big Twelve, and we've

758
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: seen strange upsets pretty much every year in that conference.

759
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: It just happens, the thing. But I can't say for

760
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: sure that we've really seen that many teams from the

761
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: so called middle class bubble up to the point, maybe

762
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: outside of Iowa State, bubble up to the point where

763
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: we start to consider them among the upper crust. I

764
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: feel like the conference needs to get deeper as a whole.

765
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: At the same time, some of this stuff is going

766
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: wrong for Oklahoma, you know, threats again coming from within

767
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: the conference to knock them down a peg at the

768
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 1: same time that they're struggling at quarterback and their defense

769
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: is a mess. It's going to take a confluence of

770
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: events like that. If Lincoln's going to be there for

771
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future, they're going to need some combo like

772
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: that to knock them back a pig is.

773
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: Does he have that status, by the way, that first

774
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: name only status, if Lincoln's going to be there.

775
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: I mean, on this show he does, because we're we're

776
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: obviously boys with Lincoln Riley.

777
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, of course, yeah, it's tough to see. But Yeah,

778
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: I think it's going to down to defense, the NFL

779
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 2: calling Lincoln Riley's name, and I'm trying to think what's

780
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: specifically problematic about Oklahoma and the open market looking for

781
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: a coach, because it's been a while. They went after

782
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: Bob Stoops after he was a defensive coordinator at Florida.

783
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 2: So just I think that the ADS in a really

784
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: good spot, and I think leadership has given everybody a

785
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: good reason to trust the Oklahoma front office or whatever

786
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: we want to call it. Yeah, I think that's what

787
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 2: it is. I think it's some element of maybe Alex

788
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: Grinch isn't ready if he's the next guy, if Lincoln

789
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 2: Riley Lee's for wherever next year in the NFL, and

790
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: it's a bad coach, but it's going to have to

791
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: be a bad coach in concert with defense conference and

792
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: some level of just you know, maybe losing the AD.

793
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: Maybe it's hard to see. It's hard to see that

794
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: that conference just still seems so shallow at the top,

795
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: Like how many times is Oklahoma State? How many times

796
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 2: is Mike Gundy beaten the Sooners twice in fifteen years?

797
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,439
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, sixteen years?

798
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: You want to play a little bit of three d chess. Sure,

799
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: what if the reason Lincoln Riley Lee's and the reason

800
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: that Oklahoma freezes as part of hell freezing over of

801
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 1: course continue is because of the college football playoff system. Huh?

802
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is because the Big

803
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: Twelve is finding itself in these odd situations where it's

804
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: left out in the cold. A young, upstart, ambitious coach

805
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: like Lincoln Riley just does not get the opportunity as

806
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: much as he would like to play for a slash

807
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: winter national championship. Right, So, rather than deal with this

808
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: goofy college system, Lincoln decides, screw it, I'm going to

809
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: the NFL. I can play it out, play it off

810
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: the way we're supposed to in any mature sport. Mm hmm.

811
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: And I'm leaving Oklahoma, Yeah, I mean, anybody who loses

812
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: their great coach is gonna suffer likely. I'm trying to

813
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 2: think what's unique to Oklahoma, though I'm trying to. I

814
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: suppose it is that element of not garnering respect in

815
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: the Big Twelve and being left out in the cold.

816
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: But I internally, is there anybody upset at Oklahoma with

817
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: where the Sooner stands? With so I can't they've had

818
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: It's not like they've got undefeated and been left out.

819
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 2: You lose Iowa State, you lose to Kansas State. I

820
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: mean that's that's sort of the reality. So yeah, not

821
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: only is it Lincoln Riley leaving, but it's a coach

822
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 2: coming in screwing up recruiting in concert with I think

823
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: Texas becoming a superpower for ever asleep the Godzilla under

824
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: the Does Godzilla sleep way down deep in the ocean?

825
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: Is that a thing? I don't know. I believe it is.

826
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: So I think that's it.

827
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: But that's only one game. If Texas is a superpower,

828
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: you're only going eleven and one.

829
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: And them again. Okay, I'll go to Ohio State here,

830
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: so they're more interesting to me, I think so. I

831
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: highlighted Ohio State on my list here as the singular

832
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: most interesting team in this discussion. Ohio State, unlike the Alabama, Clemson,

833
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma discussions, is very different. I don't think we

834
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: can say for sure that if Ryan Day leaves, they're

835
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: gonna tank because we only got one full season really

836
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: out of Ryan Day. It was a very good season,

837
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: and what we saw from them this year was again

838
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 1: very good. Justin Field's a very good quarterback. We haven't

839
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: seen Ryan Day with a quarterback other than Justin Field.

840
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: So I think this is actually a lot more to

841
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: be determined then you might think just looking at recent

842
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: recent expectations, recent results. I mean, he had Dwayne Haskins

843
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: as an interim if we count that. But yeah, sure,

844
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,280
Speaker 1: I this, like I said earlier, this is an example

845
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: of a legendary coach leaving Ryan Day. Assuming from within

846
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: you're one in year two, pretty good. I think it

847
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: will absolutely take the rise of someone else in the

848
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: Big Ten East to counterbalance Ohio State and siphon off recruits. Now,

849
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: but does that knock them to eight and four? And

850
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't knock made him four? Right, But you got

851
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: to start somewhere, and I think the immediate starting point

852
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: is Ohio State not winning the Big Ten Championship or

853
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: Big Ten East every year. Got to start there. Now,

854
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: Can Penn State get there? Maybe? Maybe can Michigan get there?

855
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: Feeling a lot less confident about that one as of late,

856
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: but those would be the two obvious candidates in the

857
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: East to jump up. Maybe Michigan State put something together

858
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: a couple of years in the future, but in the

859
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: short term, I think it's either Penn State or Michigan

860
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: to rise up and start knocking on the door. I

861
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: will be very interested to see what happens this year,

862
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: not because I think it's the start of any great

863
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: downfall for the Buckeys, but Justin Fields is going pro

864
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: and we are going to have an opportunity to see

865
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: that new quarterback situation and see what Ryan Day can do.

866
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: One of the other things that we've seen recently with

867
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: Ohio State, Ohio State has been very, very good. Again,

868
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: I can't emphasize that enough, but we've seen some deficiencies.

869
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: One of the things that Ryan Day came in and

870
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: did year one was fix the defense, because defense in

871
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: the last year of Urban Meyer was sort of a mess.

872
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: So he came in, he fixed some things, He made

873
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: them a better school. But I'm curious to see if

874
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: he can continue to steer clear of those deficiencies now

875
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: in the short term, because eventually, if you have enough

876
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: of that, it starts to add up. I feel like

877
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: with Day, as compared to some of these others. We

878
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: could talk about Mery crystal Ball in a little bit,

879
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: but today especially, I don't feel like we have enough

880
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: data to really make an accurate assessment on what it

881
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: would take for them to freeze over.

882
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 2: So you almost think he there's a very slight chance

883
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: and I don't think either one of us believe this,

884
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: but there's a slight chance that there is some mark

885
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 2: Helfrich Larry Kocher after the guy I do keeps it

886
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: going for a stretch, but not necessarily on the level

887
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: of an all time predecessor.

888
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: It's diminishing returns, right, and we've seen it time and again.

889
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean Ryan Day's back coach, And you're right, I

890
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: don't think that. I don't think that he's going to

891
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: go that route, but I think it's a bit of

892
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: an incomplete right now. He happened to take over at

893
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 1: Ohio State maybe at the time that they were getting

894
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: like the best quarterback to ever go to Ohio State,

895
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: and justin fields, you can say you went about that

896
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: and they were good elsewhere, produced a lot of great

897
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: defensive talent, no doubt, but they were gettable on defense.

898
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: This here sure watched an Indiana game. They're gettable, right,

899
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: like they weren't social National championship. Watch the National Championship.

900
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: But how much you can hold that against them going

901
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: against an Alabama remains me seen, but you know, they're

902
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: not as bulletproof, and I just am not totally convinced

903
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: that Ryan Day is just going to be on this

904
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: glide path to the playoff every year. Yeah.

905
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: So there are a couple of things that are interesting

906
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 2: to me about Ohio State because infrastructure wise, they are

907
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:53,959
Speaker 2: so well equipped. The recruiting department and just the sheer

908
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: volume of people that goes into Ohio State winning is

909
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: crazy impressive. They have to recruit in a way kind

910
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 2: of nationally they I mean, you look at the footprint

911
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: of this last amazing recruiting class and there's not a

912
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 2: ton of Midwest footprint. So they have to go out there.

913
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: There has to be charisma, there has to be that effort.

914
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: I think there will be, but I think the danger

915
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: is in well one, Ryan Day has coached in the

916
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: NFL and so I don't know what that appeal is

917
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: long term. But if Ohio State keeps blitzing through the

918
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 2: Big Ten and losing in it's close, big fashion whatever

919
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 2: to the powers in college football, I don't know. Maybe

920
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: he's going to feel like he hit his ceiling at

921
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: Ohio State and then it's it basically just takes a

922
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: coach to come in and say we're going to play

923
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: smash mouth football and get away from what attracted players

924
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 2: to Ohio State, and all of a sudden, you're turning

925
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: off players in Arizona or Georgia or North Carolina who

926
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: want to play a very specific way. I think that's

927
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: an element to it. I'm not really worried about Ohio

928
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: State playing in the Big Ten and not necessarily playing

929
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 2: in huge games, as Michigan and Penn State are now

930
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 2: kind of down and there's no real obvious team in

931
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 2: the Big Ten that is shaping up.

932
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 1: To be a long term rival near their level.

933
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a huge issue because I think, honestly,

934
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: these kids just want to be developed into NFL players,

935
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: and Ohio State's a great place to do that, and

936
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: at a number of different or every single position.

937
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: So I'm not terribly worried about that.

938
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: It's more right now about where Ryan Day's eyes are,

939
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: who Ryan Day actually is long term, because what we

940
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: know about urban Meyer and Nick Saban is that they

941
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: are just built differently. They are cyborgs. Nick Saban has

942
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: handled things way better off the field than urban Meyer did,

943
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: but to be able to maintain that level of excellence

944
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 2: is historically incredibly rare. Ryan Day might be that guy,

945
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: or he might just be, as you mentioned, a good

946
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 2: coach but not an all time coach. You're set up

947
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: to succeed at Ohio State, but you also have to

948
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: bring in that your own ability to maintain. So that

949
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 2: to me is still a giant question mark. Is the

950
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: Ryan Day element? And what does he deal look like

951
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 2: with attrition? He inherited a lot of these guys. Now

952
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: he lose Jeff Hafley, and he brought in a couple

953
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: of his own guys. I think the guys from Michigan, right,

954
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: Greg Madison and Al Washington. Madison just retired. So what

955
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: does Ohio State look like in terms of Ryan Day's

956
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: connections and ability to attract coordinators? Because as good as

957
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: Ohio State looks to be for the foreseeable future, that

958
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: just means they're gonna be losing dudes for the foreseeable future.

959
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: So the attrition thing seems very real, especially if you're

960
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 2: hiring assistants from other parts of the country. Say, that's

961
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 2: worrisome that there is absolutely no proof at this moment

962
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: that Ryan Day in year four or five can keep

963
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 2: making incredible decisions, because as we saw with urban Meyer,

964
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 2: he made some bad.

965
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, exactly. I think the risk is always a

966
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,959
Speaker 1: little bit higher, clearly when you've got a newer coach.

967
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: I don't think of how State fans look fondly back

968
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: at the Greg Ciano defenses all the time.

969
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 1: No, not all the time. Yeah, this is a big

970
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: year for Day. It is a really big year for

971
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: Ryan Day. And obviously, look there's a lot more to

972
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,879
Speaker 1: it just a quarterback position. But this is a guy who,

973
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: to your earlier points, been really good at coaching quarterbacks,

974
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: came in with a really good one to help lead

975
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 1: him through years one and two. Who's the guy after

976
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: Ryan Day? By the way.

977
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 2: That he takes like, you know, the Cincinnati Bengals job,

978
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 2: or he takes I don't know what NFL jobs might

979
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 2: become an open sooner or something like that.

980
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: The Texans job. I could see that being a Matt Campbell.

981
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: Jeff Haffley, you really like Jeff promising love Jeff Haffley.

982
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, could be Matt Campbell, could be

983
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 2: Jeff Haffley. It's interesting names.

984
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 1: Let's go rapid fire quick here through all right, three

985
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: other schools. Let's start with your Oregon Ducks. Dan. First off,

986
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: we've seen it recently. Yeah, we've seen it recently ago.

987
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: Are are you confident in the crystal Ball era at

988
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: this point that he's got them on the straight and narrow,

989
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: that that there's a nice upward trajectory We talked earlier

990
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: Tyler Schuck is transferring out Anthony Brown with at the starter.

991
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: That does not leave me feeling uber confident. But I

992
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: do still feel like Oregon's done a really good job

993
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: in the recruiting trail and that ye, crystal Ball is

994
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: building towards something greater.

995
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think all signs point to a nice run.

996
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: The the issues are while they lost this year, to

997
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: callan Oregon State inferior talent teams that put together a

998
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: better win and took advantage of Oregon mistakes like pretty

999
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 2: good teams do. So he has not built a killer

1000
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 2: on the field. Now, they had a ton of opt outs, whatever,

1001
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: But I'm not here to excuse things. At the end

1002
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: of the day, you got to win your games. I

1003
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: think the quarterback issue should be Okay, the problem to

1004
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: me with Oregon and why they come back down to

1005
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: earth because I think He's just he's always going to

1006
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: recruit well, and his assistant hires have been very good.

1007
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: And Joe Morehead and Andy Avlos. Now we'll see with

1008
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: Tim de Ruder and whoever is after Joe Morehead, who

1009
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: I assume is not going to be terribly long for

1010
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 2: Eugene maybe another year, maybe two, just because he's from

1011
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 2: somewhere else. I think the issue is going to be

1012
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 2: an element of being too stubborn in wanting too much

1013
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 2: control over in his case the offense, and Oregon is

1014
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: just is Eugene Oregon going to attract an aid list

1015
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: coach if Mario Christabal takes Oklahoma or Georgia or something big,

1016
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 2: if he wins big at Oregon Miami, who knows what

1017
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: level coach does that attract. Matt Ruhle chose Baylor over Orgon,

1018
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: Willie Taggart chose Oregon. They paid him well and he

1019
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: left right away to go back home to take a

1020
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: dream job for two years. So how well can Oregon

1021
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 2: both attract Chip Kelly was an internal hire as offensive coordinator.

1022
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 2: Mike Blotti had a West Coast footprint and was an

1023
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator at Oregon.

1024
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: He was internal.

1025
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: What does Oregon look like in terms of an open

1026
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: market coaching hire. I think it's a B plus destination

1027
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 2: in terms of how attractive it is to the best

1028
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 2: head coaches and coordinators across the country. But I don't

1029
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: think it's a no brainer to pick up your family

1030
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: and move to Eugene, Oregon. As somebody who did that,

1031
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a no brainer. Not my family,

1032
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: that would have been weird. But it's a medium sized

1033
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: town in central West Oregon. It's kind of far away

1034
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: from the hot beds of college football, especially with the

1035
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 2: Pac twelve where it is right now.

1036
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: So I think that's ultimately what it is.

1037
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: It's as as popular as Oregon is with some younger

1038
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 2: players and as good as they've built their reputation as

1039
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: a cool place to play football in practice, what are

1040
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: they able to attract in terms of a head coach.

1041
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 2: That's that's the worry to me as an Oregon fan.

1042
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: Why they go back to becoming a Holiday Bowl team

1043
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: is so it was a good internal hire of Mario

1044
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: Cristobal that seems to be working out really well.

1045
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: It's just it's tough.

1046
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: It's still to me, is just very tough because if

1047
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: you don't have somebody like that. You either need that

1048
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 2: like schematic genius like Chip Kelly was, or a guy

1049
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: who can attract talent and you know, players of coaches

1050
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 2: to Eugene, which Mario Christobal is. If you're just a

1051
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: pretty good coach, you are going to just go to

1052
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: pretty good bowl games at Oregon. It's hard to overcome that.

1053
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I think back to the Chip

1054
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: Killy era and it was just so unique. It was

1055
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: so unique that it gave distinct cred to that program.

1056
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: People wanted to play for Oregon. Yeah, because of the uniqueness,

1057
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: because of the offense, and because it was so flashy.

1058
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: He was pouring points on NFL defense is in La p.

1059
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: Carroll defenses, pouring points, beating them up.

1060
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: And christ of Ball is just not that kind of coach.

1061
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: He's just not right. But that doesn't mean he can't

1062
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: have a lot of success. And it also doesn't mean

1063
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 1: that the early returns haven't been there, because I think

1064
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: they have so Obviously some of the schools we're talking

1065
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: about at the end here are a little bit more

1066
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: prone to spiraling out. Does not seem like Oregon's trending

1067
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: in that direction, but something.

1068
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,439
Speaker 2: No, they I mean It's a lot shakier a net

1069
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: right now in Eugene than it is in probably Tuscaloosa, Columbus, Clemson, Norman,

1070
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 2: much shakier net.

1071
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: The other school we've got listed here is Notre Dame.

1072
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: It may Brian Kelly leaving is an interesting thing. It's

1073
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: interesting for everybody. So I'll just sort of omit it

1074
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: and I'll talk more about the I think structure of

1075
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 1: the program right now. There's a lot of pressure, whether

1076
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: they admit it or not, about Brian Kelly winning the

1077
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: big one. And we saw the big time win in

1078
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: November over Clemson at home. Backup quarterback for Clemson, James

1079
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: Skolsky out for Clemson, but you win that game in overtime.

1080
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: That was a big deal, big deal for the program.

1081
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: You go in the AEC Championship game, you get drilled

1082
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: by Clemson, play in the playoffs, you get drilled against Alabama.

1083
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: M I don't know how many more situations like that

1084
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: are in Brian Kelly. I don't know how long it

1085
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: is until eventually the boosters and those in the program

1086
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: just get fed up with not winning that that big one.

1087
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: Notre Dame very much is the victim of its own expectations.

1088
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: It's always been that way. Now that they're here, the

1089
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: expectation is that Notre Dame is going to reclaim its

1090
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: former glory. And I hate to break it to folks,

1091
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: but that is just not realistic. That's not reality. What

1092
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: is that a reference to?

1093
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 2: Like?

1094
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: What era?

1095
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: Because as I can as I can tell right now,

1096
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: Notre Dame has won four straight double digit seasons for sure.

1097
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,479
Speaker 1: But I'm talking national championships. I'm talking national champions early

1098
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: nineties Notre Dame, sure, sure, late eighties like eight teams

1099
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: that were just giant killers and consistently in the hunt, realistically,

1100
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: in the hunt for national championships. If they don't get

1101
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: there soon, I'm very curious to see what kind of

1102
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: effect that has on the program over the short to

1103
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: medium term and if that would be enough to force

1104
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: Kelly out, force Kelly into a state of mind, like

1105
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: what is it with these people? What do I have

1106
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: to do? I've built a good program. What do I

1107
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: have to do? Notre Dame, like you said, has been

1108
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: a double digit win team now pretty consistently, and they've

1109
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: been solid. The way that he's built this team has

1110
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: been rock solid, but much to the point of what

1111
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: you point out with Oregon, you know, there are always

1112
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: a few position groups or a bad coach hire away

1113
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: from things feeling like they're getting out of control. I

1114
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: remember back a couple of years when the quarterback position

1115
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: was unsettled. I went four and eight one year. Remember

1116
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: that was a time I think fire. Yeah, that season.

1117
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, maybe more so than any of these other schools,

1118
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: has been at that very questionable level recently. And you know, Kelly,

1119
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 1: to his credit, he was able to pull it together.

1120
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: But I just think it underscore is the point that

1121
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: sometimes in these situations, when you're not a juggernaut like

1122
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: an Alabama or a Clemson, all it takes is a

1123
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: few things to start to go sideways, to give the

1124
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: impression that the program is caving, to give the impression

1125
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 1: that a change is needed. I don't know how likely

1126
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: that is, but I'm very curious to watch this season.

1127
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see what happens at quarterback this

1128
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 1: season because that's the face of the program. Ian Book

1129
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: was there for three years. Were hateum. He was very consistent.

1130
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: He won a lot of games. Whether it's Jack Cohne

1131
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: or Tyler Buckner or somebody else, We're going to have

1132
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: to see now what Tommy Reese can do with a

1133
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: new quarterback, with Brian Kelly can do with a new quarterback.

1134
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: This is not a program that has a whole lot

1135
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: of a recent track record developing that position. Now, I

1136
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: think they've got depth elsewhere and they're could be very

1137
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: good along the lines again this season. I hope that

1138
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: the skill position out wide will be better and facilitate

1139
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: a much better year at quarterback in the passing sense.

1140
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: But I think if we're talking about how does this

1141
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: come off the swivel, I think it could ultimately come

1142
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: off the swivel with Notre Dame and its own base,

1143
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: its own fan base, its own booster base being the

1144
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: ones that eventually drive the coach out force a new start.

1145
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: I don't know who would take that job. We've talked

1146
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: about that one until we're blue in the face, and

1147
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: that new start maybe not being as promising as one

1148
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: would hope.

1149
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 2: I mean Notre Dame fired three straight coaches, right, yeah,

1150
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: So not only would Brian Kelly leaving, who's done a

1151
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: very good job there hurt, but the track record and

1152
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: obviously these are different people making different decisions, but in

1153
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: terms of Notre Dame. Who Notre Dame attracts. Bob Davey

1154
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 2: doesn't work out. Ty Willingham doesn't work out, Charlie Weiss

1155
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 2: does not work out. There's something about Notre Dame. Maybe

1156
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: it's baked into the DNA. Unofficially, Brian Kelly has a

1157
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 2: four and eight year and twenty sixteen Charlie Weiss in

1158
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven they go three and nine. Ty

1159
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 2: Willingham as a five and seven year. Bob Davey has

1160
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: a five and seven year nineteen ninety nine. The big

1161
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: difference between Notre Dame and the rest of these schools,

1162
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 2: besides being independent, is a private parochial school. Right, It's

1163
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: different recruiting to Notre Dame. They've recruited some very good classes.

1164
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 2: But when you recruit a top eighteen class one year

1165
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 2: like Brian Kelly did, I think a couple of years ago,

1166
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 2: as compared to a top five class, if that class

1167
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, If that class doesn't pan out, that's

1168
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: a pretty big issue. And hasn't been able to find

1169
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 2: a quarterback and now that hasn't. When I say a quarterback,

1170
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 2: I mean a really strong quarterback. If you believe that

1171
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: Ian book was that that's fine, but obviously in bigger

1172
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 2: games in December January it didn't really work out with

1173
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 2: Ian Book and Notre Dame's offense. So there's that element

1174
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 2: to things with Brian Kelly. So if Brian Kelly's there,

1175
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 2: how does Notre Dame kareem back down to Earth. Well,

1176
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: it's hits in recruiting, it's saying it's top recruits, top quarterback,

1177
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 2: saying I don't necessarily want to play for a private

1178
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 2: parochial school in the middle of Indiana that hasn't developed

1179
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 2: a quarterback into an NFL caliber draft pick in quite

1180
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 2: some time, depending on what you think about Deshaun Kaiser

1181
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 2: and Jimmy Clawson in their NFL careers their Notre Dame careers.

1182
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 2: So what Notre Dame has been able to do has

1183
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 2: been crazy impressive. But a combination of quarterback maybe some

1184
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,839
Speaker 2: of those schools on their schedule, be at ACC schools

1185
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 2: or the traditional powers that they tend to schedule in

1186
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 2: USC and Michigan, whatever. If those teams get better and

1187
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 2: then that paired with a couple of those ACC programs,

1188
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 2: Notre Dame's on the rise. Clemson certainly is at an

1189
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 2: incredibly high level. We'll see about Miami and Florida State

1190
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 2: if all of a sudden outside of Notre Dame on

1191
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 2: the schedule, if that element improves. And Brian Kelly is

1192
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,520
Speaker 2: somebody who hired Brian Van Gorder to be a defensive coordinator.

1193
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: True, yes, So.

1194
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly has a dud hire of a coordinator in him.

1195
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:57,560
Speaker 2: Like maybe you learn from that, you don't make that

1196
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: mistake again. But Brian Kelly is capable of making an

1197
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 2: absolute dud hire of a coordinator. So that, to me

1198
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 2: is also kind of worries some in terms of minicky

1199
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 2: car care levels.

1200
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's.

1201
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: I think it's it's again he corrected that emphatically with

1202
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 2: Elco and Clark Lee.

1203
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: He's done a great job. And I think Marcus Freeman's

1204
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: another strong hire. Sure coaches are allowed to make mistakes,

1205
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: it's how they recover from mistakes that's really important. And

1206
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I just the margin for air is

1207
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: it's just different at a place like a Notre Dame. Sure,

1208
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: it's just different because there are some of the variables.

1209
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: You've got, the high academic standards, you've got you know, what,

1210
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: do kids want to go to Indiana up play like.

1211
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 1: All these things that you've mentioned I think are very,

1212
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: very true, and so it's a different situation. There's subtleties.

1213
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 2: My brother went to college in Indiana. I had a

1214
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 2: great time visiting him.

1215
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 1: Went to Purdue. It's great, all right, Final one, Georgia,

1216
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: we're running long over time. I'm looking.

1217
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Brian Kelly's coordinator hires over the years.

1218
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: Mike Denbrock.

1219
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean den Brock was a guy brought with him

1220
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: from Cincinnati.

1221
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 2: Chip Loong was an improvement but didn't work out a

1222
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 2: long term. Okay, I think that's actually I think that's

1223
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 2: actually something to pay attention to me. I think you're

1224
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: right about Marcus Freeman. I think he will have every

1225
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 2: opportunity to uh to keep Notre Dame's recent defensive success.

1226
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 1: Going Final Final one, Georgia, Kirby Smart takes over seemingly

1227
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: overnight starts to turn that program around. Now it's important

1228
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: to say turn around is relative, because Mark Rickt was fine.

1229
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,640
Speaker 1: Mark Richt was decidedly above Monikey car care levels. Oh.

1230
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: I like this as like a college Football Hall of

1231
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 2: Fame induction introduction.

1232
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Mark Richt was fine. Place he was fine,

1233
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: which is also the name of Mark Rick's first album,

1234
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: Polite Applause Continue. But Kirby Smart comes in takes them

1235
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: to a different level. I'm curious to get your thoughts here,

1236
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: curious to get Georgia. Obviously, if Kirby Smart leaves, you know,

1237
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 1: that's the low hanging fruit. But yeah, yeah, that's the

1238
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: place that's that.

1239
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 2: I mean, George is a place that's set up to

1240
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 2: succeed like crazy. I mean, Athens is a great town.

1241
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 2: The school puts a ton of resources into the program.

1242
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 2: The sec East is not you know, wall to wall

1243
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 2: killers like it's it's a place that's built to succeed

1244
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 2: in a way that many schools aren't. But it's they're

1245
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 2: a bad coach, They're probably always going to hire higher,

1246
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 2: They're always going to to bring in at least a

1247
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: good quarterback. They're gonna have good quarterback options in normal seasons.

1248
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 2: George is a harder place to me. It's almost like Norman.

1249
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 2: It's a harder place. The expectations are there without recent results.

1250
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 2: So I think patience is going to be a huge issue.

1251
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 2: I mean, they were very patient with Mark Rick, who had,

1252
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 2: you know, a really good amount of success, but they're

1253
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 2: a patient until they're like, okay, this has run its course.

1254
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: But what do they look like now that they've gotten

1255
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 2: used to top two three recruiting classes? They make a

1256
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: national championship game, That's my point. They they're winning the East,

1257
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:15,719
Speaker 2: you know, most seasons of most recent years. Obviously Florida

1258
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 2: took it this year. But expectation wise, patience wise, I

1259
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 2: think there's this this sense of Kirby could be in

1260
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 2: La Gus Malsan was far more inconsistent in terms of

1261
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: on field results. But I think there is that element

1262
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 2: of Georgia saying we have hit our ceiling with Kirby smart,

1263
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 2: that we can't break past the Alabama glass.

1264
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: And I think it would be a mistake. And then

1265
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 1: to go out and you know, take a chance with

1266
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: somebody new. I think there is that. I think it's

1267
01:12:55,240 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: a patience Hubris thing with Georgia for sure. A right,

1268
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: well look, Saliverboitgmail dot com right in, let us know

1269
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: your thoughts. Longer show than usual here, but that's okay,

1270
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: got a little bit into it today, that's fine. Verballers

1271
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: dot Com again is the Patreon, don't forget got a

1272
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 1: fun off topic show. Coming a bonus show content only

1273
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: available for our Patreon subscribers that we're going to drop

1274
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: a little bit later on.

1275
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 2: This week with sweet content of me talking about a

1276
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 2: travel team basketball team I was on.

1277
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: I have a I have a litany of stories, Dan

1278
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: that I think you will find exciting, including me on

1279
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: the basketball court. Oh my god, there was a there

1280
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,919
Speaker 1: was a moment. There was a moment on the basketball

1281
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: court that drove me away permanently from basketball forever. And

1282
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 1: it wasn't me blowing my shoulder out about six years ago.

1283
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: That was different. Yeah, but back in the day, Ty

1284
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: Hildebrant setting up shop deep in the corner trying to

1285
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 1: pop a three. Are you giving away this content? I'm

1286
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 1: not giving anything away. The content gets better, I promise you. Okay,

1287
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: on Friday bonus content, did you have I.

1288
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: Want you to tease this out, so don't answer definitively.

1289
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 2: Did you have a Freddie Prince junior Jessica Bieal moment

1290
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: on a baseball field? A what Freddy Prince junior summer catch?

1291
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: Ty? I'm aware, I am aware. Are you saying did

1292
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 1: I leave the girl.

1293
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 2: At the airport? Did you ever frolic after hours on

1294
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 2: a baseball field.

1295
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, hold on, ty you got to

1296
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 1: tease it out. I don't know, I want to. You

1297
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: may want to check out our content. Yeah, all right,

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01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: I like summer Catch. Thank you to one and all

1299
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: for playing along with us here. Stay safe wherever you

1300
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: may be, Try to stay warm. Hopefully hell is not

1301
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: freezing over on you. It's about to do so. Here

1302
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: like a half of Race. That'll be great for that

1303
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself,

1304
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 1: Tyle the brand, thanks so much for downloading, for listening,

1305
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: Stay safe, stay healthy, stay warm. In the meantime, until

1306
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: next time, Stay solid. Peace,