WEBVTT - 117: Starship Loopers 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.960 It's twelve o two a m. On CLENDAFU and you're 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:15.680 listening to Night Call. Hello, and welcome back to Night Call, 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.960 a call in show for our dystopian reality. I'm Tess 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.640 Lynch and with me are Molly Lambert and Emily Rashida. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.560 Today we are also joined by special guest Ezekiel Quaku. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.040 He's a writer and editor based in Oakland. He's also 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.080 politics editor at New York Magazine's Intelligencer, and people send 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.640 him photos of flags, which we will get to later. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.360 We're very excited to have him on today. Welcome Ezekiel. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:43.040 Thank you, nice to have you on. Um, we have 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.199 some breaking news this week as of this morning. I 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.720 think Molly, you tweeted that like a hundred different people 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:56.080 texted you that we got Gillane, we got her. Ezekiel, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.120 have you been following? Are you an Epstein head? Are you? Uh? 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.760 I had to like follow him professionally. Yeah, so I 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.320 don't know if I don't know if I would call 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:14.960 it being it's not voluntary in your case, yeah, totally involuntary. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.319 I um, yeah, so I had to dive pretty deeply 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.680 into it. He's sort of like for New York Magazine. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:28.440 He's sort of like a classic New York magazine story. Definitely, 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.280 we like went all in and like did this big 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.920 feature on his black that was a cover. If I 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.560 recall because I was there, then yeah, he has to have. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.680 I mean. One of the things that's interesting about it 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.560 is that these people are in so many Getty images 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.480 of New York high society parties. Page six just did 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.360 a slide show yesterday that was just like famous people 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.800 with Gilain and it's all just from like premiers and 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.640 benefits and parties and some of them probably it was 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.120 just that they met her that one time and got 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.720 a photo with her. But who knows. Who knows a 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.240 lot of people were in deep She was found in 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:18.359 New Hampshire at a home owned by Yolanda Haddie. No. No, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.960 she was found in New Hampshire at a home that 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:27.280 she bought for a million dollars called tucked Away. One 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:34.280 word her WiFi password. People. Yeah, like New Hampshire is 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:39.320 also we're breaking bad ends apparently, And it's where like 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.880 hides out when he's like changes his ident or he 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:46.480 gets like like witness protection or something I forget. He's 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.360 like he gets like a private it's like private witness 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:54.520 protection where yeah, he goes out there and like no 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.720 one knows he's like in a cabin. Yeah, and nobody's 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.600 supposed to know where he is lives for your which 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.519 is also the title of the Sopranos episode where Vito 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.120 s about a four who ran away to New Hampshire 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.000 as well. He was hiding out and may never have 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.720 been found other than he tired of life not working 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.800 in the mafia and went to go check on his family. Listen, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:20.040 when you don't want to get trod upon or be 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:26.040 exposed for being accessory to sex ring, head to New Hampshire. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.640 But why did I think there was a Yolanda Hadid link? 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.240 There is a Yolanda Hadid link, Okay? Which is that? Uh? 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.120 Somebody on Twitter claimed that they saw Gilane in the Netherlands, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.680 where Yolanda is from and has a house, and they 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.920 were like, I wonder why Guilane is here, And then 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.800 they put it together later that she's friends with Yolanda 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.600 and possibly Yorlando was hiding her allegedly. Oh hoo, okay, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:56.480 but this is not in New Hampshire. This is some 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.720 time in between now and last October. Yeah, and then 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.280 the their lens. But that's one of the theories that 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.400 she's been moving around from safe house to safe house, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.680 and it seems like everyone who's been helping her is 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:13.240 like some other crazy woman. Um like that's who was 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.440 whole hiding her out in the Universal City too, was 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.800 like some powerful lady who she was friends with let 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.720 hers stay at her Universal City house allegedly. The thing 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.240 I don't understand about it is like, why wouldn't you 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.120 stay in one place and try not to be seen. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.159 It feels like every time you would change locations, that's 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.880 like a new chance to be exposed because your Carmen 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:40.240 san Diego. I mean, did she grab her hair, did 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.560 she get did she have a collection of wigs? I mean, 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.240 you don't have fun with this, I suppose if you want. 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.440 I don't know if that anyone has seen her yet. 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.800 Somebody printed like a Society page thing where that had 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.200 one of her friends being like everyone wants to see 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.960 if she's gained weight and looks old because socialites are 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:02.479 horrible people. U But people claim they heard her voice 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.000 on the press conference call yesterday that there was like 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.240 a British woman. People also think maybe she made a deal, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.520 that she's going willingly because she's been cooperating with the 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:16.200 Feds and she's gonna name names. I mean that's the reason. Like, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.000 that's the whole reason this is news is that she's 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.600 like the number one source for whatever was going on 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.279 besides Jeffrey Epstein, right, Like that's why this is important. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.839 Maybe our New York politics expert can help with this, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.599 but there it was allegedly related also to the Burman 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.360 firing the other day, the SDN Y thing where they 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:41.000 like Bill bar fired Burman. Some people think some people 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.800 were wondering, like I know, like there's some conspiracy. I mean, 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.280 no one really knows, but I know some people are 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.800 speculating that perhaps the they decided to change strategy when 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.400 the when the you guy was brought in, maybe they 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.760 were trying to get her to flip on on say 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.120 the president of i IT states. But um, maybe they've 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.520 given up that strategy and that's whether they're just bringing 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.919 her in now. But I don't have no idea. And 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.520 this this Berman the sorry, he's a New York State 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.480 attorney who like that was the guy that they like 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.760 announced his resignation and he was like, wait, I didn't 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.800 resign like that. It was just like a couple of 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.279 weeks ago. I feel like a day or two after that, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.640 or maybe right around then, another billionaire involved with this 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:33.040 circle of people, Steve Ban, committed suicide and people were 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.560 speculating that it was related to some files being unsealed 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:45.240 that have all these John does in them. Deep Deep, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:52.080 That's all that I can say, allegedly. Deep. Speaking of Deep, Um, 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.160 I brought a new thing to the group that is 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.039 a weird app that the kids are all into. I'm 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.080 obsessed with this now called and Anautica. Tess. Why don't 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.440 you explain it? Okay? So, random Autica is an app 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.839 that launched, I think at the beginning of this year, 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:14.600 but became very popular during quarantine. UM. It's particularly popular 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.560 with people on TikTok. So what what randon Autica does 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.559 is it assigns you, um random coordinates that are close 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.000 to your geographic location. And what the user does is 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.320 they set an intention. So, for instance, UM, some of 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.040 the intentions people have set have been to find a 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.880 lost cat, to see something purple, or just the word love, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.600 which sometimes goes fine, and then they film themselves going 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.680 to these locations. But there have been all of these 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.360 strange occurrences within the app that have then been broadcast 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.640 on TikTok Uh, which have ranged trim like, oh, funny coincidence. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.960 I was trying to find a lost cat and then 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.360 I found a random baby cat, and the baby cat 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.000 led me to a line of Joshua tree in the desert. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.000 How weird a cat? I found a cat. But then 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.040 there were people and I don't know what intention they set, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.800 but um they were led to a suitcase full of 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.840 human remains. Yes, I watched that video. Yeah, Um, other 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:20.360 people have been led to graveyards, abandoned villages in the forest. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.320 It's bizarre and so and nobody really knows if there's 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.360 Like I mean, people probably do know that there's actually 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.520 no magic in the app, but that it's just people 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.000 are so bored that you're if if you have a 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.760 ton of people using an app and they're making connections 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.800 because their brains need that exercise, that a lot of 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.640 the connections will be strange. That does not explain finding 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.520 a suitcaseful of human remains. Though. Yeah, yeah, this is 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:55.040 all very pokemono like, but for like appropriately it's like 0:08:55.080 --> 0:09:01.040 a Uigi board combined with pokemones. Yeah, it's like Pokemon 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:09.160 go with no Pokemon. Yeah, well it's a little Yeah, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.160 it feels like this weird reaction to like everybody has 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.720 to be inside and so like people kind of find 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.520 the most because like the other thing about having like 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.480 about lockdown or whatever, unless you're going to go out 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:22.920 to a restaurant or a bar or something and take 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.040 your life into your hands, is that if you're not 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.640 doing that but you want to be out of the house, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.240 there's actually not that much stuff to do, so like 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.360 it's like kind of a make It's like a make 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:38.080 play and uh yeah, the whole it just gives you 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.280 like a task. It taskifies going outside, which is kind 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.439 of like bound like like there's stuff outside. It turns 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.680 out like suitcases with dead bodies in them. I don't know. Also, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.320 everything feels so both chaotic and empty that I think 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.560 the idea of going to a place that like has 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:01.520 been instilled with meaning and you have to look at 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.520 it with the with your intention in mind and kind 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:09.560 of try to make that connection. Uh, it's like part 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.280 of it, I think. Yeah, it's it's become a verb 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:17.920 to Rando nodding, which I like, so would any of 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.080 you do this? Would any of you download the app 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.640 and actually do this. I raised my hand for sure. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.839 I used to do I used to dabble in geo 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.079 cashing back in the day. I guess it's like it's 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.760 geo cashing, except it's done like seemingly at random, Like 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.120 these points are are determined by the app. That's the 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.320 That's the spooky thing is that are these location Who's 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.199 determining these locations? And I feel like this is a 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.680 setup for a serial killer? Yeah, definitely. Why would you 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.640 do this? Because I'm so bored, Joel, I'm so bored. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.959 I was gonna say, like, because you're fourteen and stuck 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.599 at home. I was not. I did not think my 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.520 co host would be like, yes, yes, I also will. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.720 I was really excited by the story of like the 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.280 person finding the baby cat, and that was all it 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.599 took for me to be like I would. All of 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.880 a sudden, I was like, puppy. I mean, it's the 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.040 possibilities are not endless. There, it's a short list of animals, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.840 but I want to do it. That outweighs the potential 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.040 of finding a suitcase of human remains, it does. I mean. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.360 I went on a new hike the other day the 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.960 other day, like last week and that, and not like 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.320 because I had just been inside so much. Normally that 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.880 would just be like whatever, it's a fun it's a 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:32.960 new hike. But just that was like, oh God, am 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.560 I gonna die? Like I I like I I follow 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.160 these instructions that were on some random website for like 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.559 how to do this certain hike around that I've never 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.720 done in Griffith Park, and I was like, oh, what 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.000 if this leads me to my death? Like who knows? 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.280 Have you ever done a hike wrong? Oh? All the time. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.240 Usually the first time I do a hike wrong, if 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.920 I'm trying it out, yeah, or you're like trying to 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.800 find a like a pin and you're just like this 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.240 doesn't seem like the right way. Yeah, And there's always 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.520 there's this weird I remember when I first started hiking 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.400 a lot in l A And it was around the 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.079 like kind of that very very long drought that lasted 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.199 for years, and so I would be looking at photos 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:11.960 of what like where I was, so I was supposed 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.559 to look like, and it was like unrecognizable because because 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.480 it was green and all the pictures um. So yeah, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.960 like you can feel like you're getting pranked by nature sometimes. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.440 Do any of you guys have TikTok? This is only 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:30.400 just related to the to the appurten that's not something 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.199 you're required to do for in your line of work. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:40.160 Is like that Epstein's. I mean I feel like I 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.439 like Twitter curates the TikTok's that I would be interested 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.080 in and puts them on Twitter. So it's like I 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.640 don't have time to go on it myself. Yeah, I 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.840 don't need another time sync. Yeah. To me, it feels 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.520 like what people describe it. It's like, oh, it's just teenagers. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.120 It's like, no, that's a why no adults should be 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.959 on TikTok. When did I went on TikTok just to 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.760 just to be random nodding? Would that be wrong? Joel? 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.240 I could see Joe l being like, don't do it. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.080 I remember when TikTok. When I first heard of TikTok, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.840 it was connected with like people in other countries, like cooking, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.679 doing doing tasks. And it wasn't until like I don't know, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.440 maybe five or six months ago that I understood it 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.480 to be like an app for teens. I want to say, 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.320 it's like YouTube, where maybe it started out, it's more 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.720 just like recording random things for that period of time, 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.439 and then it turned into people being like, how can 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.400 I use this to make my brand? Yeah? Sure, there's 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.679 like a fall The YouTube fallout right now is really 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.199 interesting because it's all of the like first wave stars 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.080 of that platform who are all really bad people, it 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:56.000 seems like, and they're all leaving or being forced off 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.720 because they all have a black face video and some 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.920 of them like got ahead of it, and others like 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.560 Shane Dawson it just seems like the worst person alive. 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.959 But again, you're just like, this is who got famous 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:14.360 on YouTube? The algorythm supported Yeah, Like, I don't know, 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.040 and I never got that into you. I mean, obviously 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.880 everybody uses YouTube. It's like a utility like anything else. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.080 But I never understood the idea of YouTube as a 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.360 platform as a as an addictive thing to keep coming 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.800 back to and be a part of. Like I'm always 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.080 just like maybe the thing I'm looking for is on YouTube, 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.680 So that is it's all very impenetrable to me as 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:40.840 an ancient person. I suppose I became very intrigued by 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.800 I was like, who would do this? Why would they 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.680 do this? And then I um had to watch those 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.880 unboxing videos to satisfy my children's curiosity. And then I 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.600 looked at how much those people made and I was like, YouTube, 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:59.240 what a place. Maybe I loolong on YouTube. Um, I 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.680 want to talk a Ezekiel's flags. May Wee. Molly made 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.840 the comparison that you and the flags are like her 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.720 and glass bricks at least a few weeks or a 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.040 few years ago, particularly the peak of the glass bricks. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.040 Sometimes you just find a thing that's like your thing. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.520 But I feel like, what, well, let's have you talk 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:20.000 about it. I was going to say, I think the 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.680 flags feel more meaningful to me than the bricks are 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.880 kind of repetitive. With the flags, I feel like the 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.280 more of them there are, they do really interesting things. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.600 You think, how did you How did you plant your 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:41.000 first flag? Uh? Yeah, it was kind of a happenstance obsession. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:47.560 I Um. I posted a flag in association with I 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.680 think the the US men's soccer team was playing, so 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.560 I was just like, oh, it's America. I'm gonna post 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:58.920 this flag. Go team USA. UM. And then I came 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.920 back to it up them like a month later because 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.240 it was July fourth, So I was looking at some 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:11.080 some flags, and then it became developed into an obsession. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.200 I think probably I was probably part of what was 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.600 going on, was like mildly depressed, which made me susceptible 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:26.320 to obsessive behaviors. But yeah, so I started looking up 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:34.520 these you know, American flags in in an art um 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.040 and it started. I think it probably accreedd more significance 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.480 than just like a random obsession as I as I 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.560 kept looking at the flags, um because it's like a 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.560 it's a super powerful symbol in the sense that like 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.960 it has very strong connotations, but then an artists can 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:58.600 like attach all kinds of different meanings to it. Um. 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.960 So seeing seeing the ways that people were able to 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.720 mobilize the flag, utilize the flag, and take advantage of 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.040 these strong associations and sort of bend them to their 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:14.560 to their purpose was interesting. Yeah. I feel like the 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.800 Jasper John's flag is like always taught and like a 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.720 modern art class is just kind of an example. Yeah. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.440 Like the Yeah, the three flags especially, I think that's 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:31.199 probably the most famous art piece with a flag in it, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.640 one of the probably one of the more famous images 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.080 of the flag period. Along with um, it would Giema 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.680 flag raising and crossing of the Washington crossing the Delaware 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:48.879 that painting. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any favorite flag 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.360 related artwork other than the Jasper John's. I have a 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.480 flag in my in my living room. This is actually 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:03.080 a product of my obsession with the flag, because I 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.679 started a tumbler two so that I would stop borrowing 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.679 bothering my followers on Twitter. He liked follow me on 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.239 Twitter because of the flags. Um, so I started tu 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.280 It's called it's E flags E F L A G 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:31.760 S dot tumbler um, so you can see. So the 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.679 way I got this was, I there's an artist. This 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.119 is by an artist named Sarah rebar Um and she 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.800 has like a whole series of mixed media flags that 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:47.280 she's that she's done, and I would post them on tumbler, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:52.280 like you know, with her name. And I posted so 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:56.120 many of them that she like contacted me on tumbler 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.800 to say thanks for posting my flag. I mean, she's 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.080 a she's a well established artist, but like she's not 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.879 like a name brand person um. And so I asked 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.000 her if you had any because I had tried to 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.960 look for prince of her art um I couldn't find any. 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.960 So she sent me that, uh, that poster that makes 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.720 me miss Tumbler. Also, yeah, is there a place people 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.320 can since since we're on zoom and we could see 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.320 what you just showed us, but can you is that 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.239 image online and people could find it or we can 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.399 link to it or something. Yeah, I'll send you a 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.480 link to it. Yeah, it's cool. It looks like a 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.320 kind of collage work though of it a bunch of 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.879 like mixed media flags. She basically takes an American flag 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:56.719 and like layers other fabrics and objects on top of them. 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.359 I have a question for you, as a connoisseur of 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.240 all this flag are like, what are your feelings about 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.919 the just the design of the American flag aesthetically and 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.000 then whatever other category you know, criticism that you have 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.520 around it. I'd like to know your thoughts on it. 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.720 I think one of the super things, super difficult things 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.000 about it, it's like so familiar as an object to 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.080 me that it's hard to like say what I think 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.800 about it aside from like all these associations that I 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:33.199 have with it. Yeah, it's it's weird. It's it's like 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.280 a super weird flag. Like if you try to if 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.919 you try to like remove all the associations you have 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.120 from it. Um, there's too many. There's probably too many stripes, 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.840 there's too many stars. It's kind of like it's kind 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:54.280 of clutter. It's busy. It's too busy. But I think 0:20:54.800 --> 0:21:00.560 the uniqueness, especially like the field of stars, the pattern 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.040 that it's in is super unique. So that makes it 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.520 like I can't think of any other flag where you 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.520 can see just like a little piece of it and 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.920 you know that it's the American flag, or you can 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.280 just see the stars in that distinctive pattern and you 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.400 know it's the American flag. Um. Which is which is 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.919 cool for artists because like you know, they can deploy 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.479 it so flexibly. You can change the colors and it's 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.440 still the American flag. UM. You can you can drop 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.119 the stars and people still recognize it. You can drop 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.600 the stripes and people still recognize it. UM. So like 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:42.280 as a as a symbol, it's super successful. I don't know, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.320 like as a piece of design, we're maybe not that successful. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:47.960 I know a lot of people think it's super ugly. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:54.480 I think that represents America well though, Yeah, yeah, it's 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.480 ugly and it's kind of tacky and there's a lot 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.840 going on, but you can always tell what it is. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.080 It always is itself. Zekiel, do you feel like your 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.920 relationship with the flag has changed, like as you've done 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.400 the project? I mean, since I've thought about it so much, 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:13.879 it probably like I've probably attached more meaning to it 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.280 than and the average person would. So I think it's 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.920 a very powerful symbol. I don't get like super patriotic 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.000 feelings or anything like that when I look at it, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:28.159 just because like the number of things that it's been 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.159 that it can attach itself to sort of removes that feeling. 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.160 So like you can have you see the flag, like 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.040 so I have picture of the flag of you know, 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:45.439 in Iraq with American soldiers, UM, pictures of the flag 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.120 on the moon. People to point the flag, like in protests, 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.879 people to point the flag, like during the sixties, like 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.400 Martin Luther King to point the flag, or civil rights 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.000 marches to point the flag, aids activists to point the flags. 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.000 It's like in some senses like it is a symbol 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.840 of America, UM, but it's also like a symbol of 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.000 America as it exists, but also like a symbol of 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.840 what people want it to be. UM. People think it 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:21.200 is at its best or what it should be or whatever. Um. Yeah, 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.280 So I always feel like the flag on in space 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.680 or like on the moon is one of the wildest 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.040 contexts for it because I think it makes a lot 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.200 of sense to be used in protests and stuff like that. 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.880 But there's something about it being in space. I mean, grant, 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.439 if you are a person who believes that we landed 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:43.760 on the Moon, then like the the idea that like 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.479 our stupid flag is there. I mean, like, you know, 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:49.760 I'll all criticisms, some good points and everything, like why 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:55.280 is that object on this thing that orbits our planet? 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.480 Like it just feels so small in that context. I 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:02.880 always like kind of flabbergasted by that image being used 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:05.959 as like an image of victory or like conquest or something. 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.320 But I don't know, I'll miss no opportunity to say 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.000 that America got to the Moon because of the Nazi 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:17.320 scientists that they brought over Operation paper Clip. Have you 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.480 have any of you watched the Apple TV program for 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:27.960 All Mankind? No? I haven't. How is this It's it's 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:30.080 pretty good, I thought, I mean it's it's kind of 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.199 like I'm a kind of a space nerd type. So 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.000 it was a big battle star ahead, so I was like, 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:39.440 oh maybe we should watch that. Yeah, So like it's 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:44.560 an alternate it's an alternate history of the space race. Um, 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:51.760 and like they imagine us like not stopping moon trip. 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:55.800 I don't remember how the divergence happens from our timeline, 0:24:56.240 --> 0:25:00.480 but anyway, Um, one of the things that they go 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.880 into is like how this was dependent on Nazi scientists. 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.800 And there's like this big one of the one of 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.000 the characters in the show, So like it ends up 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.119 being like you get women astronauts to wait earlier, so 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:17.919 you get women astrocts in like the sixties. Um. And 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:21.880 one of the science one of the female scientists, her mentor, 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.840 is a Nazi scientist. And there's like this big reckoning 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:30.480 that ends up happening where um, he's called before Congress 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:33.399 and like because in the show it's like a power play, 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:35.959 they're trying to get rid of him, and so they 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:39.199 like suddenly remember, oh yeah, this guy's a Nazi, Like 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:42.399 call him to account for all of his all of 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:44.840 his crimes, and I get rid of him. But like 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:47.639 through it they like there's like a reckoning of like 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:53.000 how the space race depended on these horrible Nazis that 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:58.280 we redeemed for their scientific accomplishments. Yeah, wow, Ezekiel, you 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:04.000 should definitely check out stars Troopers. Yeah, it's like a 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:07.520 weird a weird gap in my in my viewing because 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:10.560 I like science fiction, so it's I don't know why 0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:13.440 I haven't seen it. It's a good time to watch 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:17.679 Starship Troopers, as we all discovered, if you're interested in 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.760 what yeah, what if the space race had continued. It's 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:25.920 a very thing about that. Um. I had an argument 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.760 with my mom the other day about the flag because 0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:31.359 she gave me a little flag that came like a 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:33.840 realtor left a calendar that had an American flag, and 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:35.119 she was like, you can have it, and then she 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:41.840 immediately was like, don't burn it. Was like, Mom, I'm 0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:47.760 not gonna do it on camera, but she was like, 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:51.720 you know, we have to like rescue it from all 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.800 the horrible meanings, especially it's like taken on right now, 0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:57.280 you know, we have to like take it back. And 0:26:57.320 --> 0:26:58.960 I was like, I don't know if it can be 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.800 taken back anymore. You know, like when I see an 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:05.760 American flag just on somebody's house now, like I get 0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.600 a little freaked out, you know, even if it is 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.040 the fourth of July. It just like it reads differently. 0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:15.359 Do you think that the American flag can be reclaimed 0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:18.119 or do you think the point is to like, you know, 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:22.960 set it on fire. I feel like I think it 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:25.040 can be reclaimed. I mean a lot of the flag 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:29.080 has flown over a lot of horrible things, UM, sometimes 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:34.679 even concurrently with people claiming it. You know, you can 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.560 even like the civil rights context is the one I 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.879 always returned to you. You know, you can find another. 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:44.480 Another famous picture of the flag is during an anti 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:49.760 bussing protest in Boston, UM. A guy getting just like 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:52.440 sort of speared with with the flag on a pole. 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:57.040 Seen this picture before, UM, And so that's been like 0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.760 used in an anti civil rights context. At the same 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:03.439 time time, people were flying the flag for two in 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:08.800 you know, sort of deploying it to say like America 0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:12.800 should be a country that treats its isn't equally. So 0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:15.639 I feel like the flag could be reclaimed if people, 0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:17.400 I mean, you can lay claim to it if you want. 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:22.760 Kendrick Lamar, Kendrick Lamar has did his I don't I 0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:25.000 don't remember which music awards it was, but he had 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:28.639 like a giant art piece with the flag flying behind 0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.840 his his performance. So I feel like, I guess my 0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:33.480 answer is like I don't think it needs to be 0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:36.639 particularly reclaimed. I have the same feeling like when I 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.560 see if I see someone flying the flag on like 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:44.240 their pickup truck, I sort of feel like, this is 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.240 not a this is probably not a good person. Yeah. Maybe, well, 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:49.720 and that goes back to like post nine eleven. I 0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:51.960 feel like that's the first time for our generation that 0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.600 the flag really got weaponized and in a kind of 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:58.920 conservative context. But yeah, I remember people put up a 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:02.200 lot of flags on their dorm walls, on the front 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:04.680 of their doors, on their dorms, and I went around 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:08.720 and just like turned them all upside down. Why were they? 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:12.640 They're doing that a brown for what? Just pere anywhere 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:16.840 we're getting that that jingo ism, you know. I mean 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:18.880 that's what I think is like scary about any kind 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:23.520 of patriotic signifiers, Like it can be used for for evil, 0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.600 but it also like, yeah, I can be used for good. 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:30.160 Like I also, I feel like the flag, it depends 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:34.440 on the context, like you were saying, depends who's flying it. 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:37.320 It's like the country that you're in. It's like a 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:40.360 micro cause it's like, is it like does that count 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:44.400 as like a synic doche or like like whatever that 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:46.960 word is like for the country, But it's not, isn't 0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:52.000 it SYNECTICU is like the name of the movie. Never mind, 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:53.880 I don't know what. I don't know how to pronounce it. 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.600 I've never actually attempted to pronounce it out loud. But 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:59.560 like the thing that's sort of this is like the 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:02.000 micro cause him of a larger thing that can be 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.360 kind of um used to speak about it. And I 0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:08.040 don't know whenever. I'm not an expert at this sort 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:11.040 of thing, but like it does feel like in that way, 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:14.560 the flag is sort of perfect as a symbol because 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:19.400 it is this. It is completely it's importance and and 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:23.120 it's it's virtue or or lack thereof, is like completely 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:27.000 dependent on the context and who's holding it and what's 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:30.480 going on with it. It's kind of a neutral entity, 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:35.600 just like the country. Yeah, that's my that's my thing. 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:40.920 Like I remember someone getting really upset at me posting 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.360 pictures of the flag and they're like, you know this 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:46.880 the flag has people have flown the flag for all 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:50.200 kind of all kinds of horrible reasons, and so I 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:53.560 don't think you should be posting flag guard or I don't. 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:55.480 I don't remember what exactly said, but that was like 0:30:55.560 --> 0:31:00.600 the paraphrase of his his his meaning my is like 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:06.200 it's not like it is not like say a swastika, 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:11.440 where the meanings super determined and it can only really 0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:15.040 mean one thing. I feel like the flags has been 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.400 used in enough context that it it can have good 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.840 or bad reasons depending on who's flying it in what context. 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:25.880 Didn't why, Yeah, it's like a mirror. It's like I'm 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:33.520 sure somebody has made a mirror flag at some point, somebody. Yeah, 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:35.520 is he killed? Do you have any like second and 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:42.240 third favorite flags? Oh? Yeah, Um, I don't know, I 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:47.160 have too many. I have trouble. I have trouble picking 0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:52.640 favorite anything, trouble picking favorite movies. Yeah. Oh, that's like 0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:55.480 the worst question to ask me ever, Like I can 0:31:55.480 --> 0:32:02.280 never pick a favorite anything, favorite movie particularly But yeah, yeah, um, 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:06.240 I saw this Jasper John's flag recently that I really liked. 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:12.360 It's um, I don't remember I think it it came 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:16.280 by saw it because some gallery was selling it. Let 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:19.160 me see if I can quickly find it on my computer. 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:24.320 But I just loved, like, the way it was it 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:32.680 was layered. I'll send you I really like. I really 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:39.080 like the David Hammonds did the African American Flag, which 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:44.200 is a color swapped American flag. Um. Yeah, that one's 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:53.640 pretty iconic. I feel like that that's that has uh span, Yeah, yeah, 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:57.440 that one has set a long lifespan. Yeah. I was like, 0:32:57.920 --> 0:32:59.800 I was looking for this. I saw this thing going 0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:02.920 to oh my Twitter recently and now I'm like, realis 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:04.720 and I should have looked into it before this. There's 0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:07.360 some sort of thing called like the My American Flag 0:33:07.400 --> 0:33:13.280 project where people are like redesigning the American flag, which 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:17.760 feels like somebody weird, somebody somebody sent that to me. 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:23.880 I mean, like now, it's it's super funny because now, 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:26.680 like you, I think somebody mentioned I don't know if 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.680 somebody mentioned it, but like people, when people see the 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:36.360 American flag like a flag in like an art piece 0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:38.960 or just like they see it out in the wilds, 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:44.080 they'll send it to me. It's like my brand now 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:48.000 for better for worse. Like somebody somebody sent me that 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:52.120 that my American Flag project. Yeah, I think the I 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:54.800 think the ones that I saw, one of them was 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:58.000 actually the just the African American flag. I don't know 0:33:58.000 --> 0:33:59.840 if the person needs a history of it or like 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:04.960 it was an accident or what the deal was with that. Yeah, 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:10.640 have you ever made a flag cake? I have no skill? 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:16.759 What are you talking about like the stuff? Yeah? Have 0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.719 you no? But I'm thinking about it now. I want 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:26.920 to make a make flag the American flag out of food. Um, well, 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:31.040 if you? Yeah, if have you? Is there any other 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:33.800 symbol that you think like has this sort of quality 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.640 because I think like you think you hit on something 0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:41.040 so right about like like like what you're say at 0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.200 the beginning, where it's just like you don't it's like 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:45.320 a thing that you don't have a feeling about almost 0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:48.040 anymore because it's so ubiquitous, because it's so a part 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:50.279 of like if you've grown up here, it's a part 0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.680 of your childhood. Like I don't know if they still 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:55.240 make kids like do the Pledge of allegiance in school. 0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:57.440 That was something we had to do when I was 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:02.680 in like at least through elementary middle school. Like like 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:04.600 like there are a few things that kind of rival. 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:06.719 I'm trying to think of other things that have that, 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:11.240 like you know, just feel that bone deep at this point. Um, 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:14.680 I guess this kind of depends on cultures, but yeah, yeah, 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.279 I can't think of anything in the American context where 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:21.520 that has that sort of neutral it's that has that 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:23.759 sort of power as a symbol while also having like 0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:29.000 sort of neutral connotations. I mean, it is super I mean, 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:32.360 and and the American people's I feel like our relationship 0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:36.560 to our flag is kind of unique to like, I 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:40.040 don't I don't feel like other other countries. From from 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.080 what I've read, it doesn't feel like other countries have 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:45.960 the same relationship with their own flag. Like we like 0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:50.320 the Pledge of allegiances about the flag. The national anthem 0:35:50.360 --> 0:35:53.959 is also about seeing the flag. It's kind of odd. 0:35:56.840 --> 0:35:59.320 It's like, yeah, it's like this thing that just stands 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:01.400 in for it. It's like we're not gonna really actually 0:36:01.400 --> 0:36:04.440 say anything. We're just gonna say, like we like the flag. 0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:09.560 It's it's such a weird tradition, kind of rhetorical tradition. 0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:13.359 I just feel like your Twitter threads are really incredible 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:15.880 and like one of the few things on Twitter that 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.279 I'm like, this is art. You know, this is someone 0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:22.360 who's using social media for good in a really cool, 0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:29.760 interesting way. Um Decider, Now, Yes, but it just reminds 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:32.480 me of film film school stuff to where they show you, like, 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.040 you know, images next to each other and how they 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:37.680 relate to each other, and just seeing seeing them as 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:41.480 a long stream like that, UM, in conversation with each other. 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:45.279 I think. I think it's so cool. Yeah, and it's 0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:48.919 cool you've been doing it for six years. Yeah yeah. 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:52.480 I sort of don't post them on ton Twitter anymore, 0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:55.640 but I still look at them all the time, find 0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:57.799 new pictures of them and stuff. People sending glass bricks 0:36:57.840 --> 0:36:59.600 under the table all the time. People will send them 0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:01.160 to me and be like, are we are you still 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.600 doing this? Are you still looking at the bricks? This 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:09.000 account still active? Well, Ezekiel, thank you so much for 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:12.600 joining us today. UM we mentioned your Twitter. It's the Shrillist. 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:16.879 You have also been djaying on Twitch. I know. Yeah. 0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:20.880 If you wouldn't mind sharing a link to that that 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:23.719 we can share with our listeners, I think we'd all 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:27.759 enjoy it. Where do you find those backgrounds for your 0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:34.600 dj stets? Um? I think the last few backgrounds have been, um, 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:40.040 I did Sam Sorrow once, I did Brock. There's all so. 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:44.279 I I'm kind of a film nerd, so I just 0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:48.200 found some movies that didn't have narratives and had interesting 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:56.160 if you have if you have suggestions, I'm I'm all out. 0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.399 If you have suggestions, I'm wide open. When your next 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:05.000 DJ set, your next twitch set um do you have, 0:38:05.200 --> 0:38:07.960 I'd probably be next Thursday. I don't really have a 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:12.759 schedule because I have children, so I'm not sure. It 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:15.799 also always depends on how soon they go to bed, 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.120 but it's like usually Thursday or Friday nights is when 0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:23.239 I try to do it. Cool. I like a DJ 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:25.680 who doesn't know when he's going to play, because it's 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:33.319 like when when the wind call, when the world needs music. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:37.439 you're DJ set relaxed me a lot last week. So cool. 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:42.000 I'm glad. Thanks for doing that. Thanks, thank you. We 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:43.719 are going to take a quick break and when we 0:38:43.760 --> 0:38:58.040 come back, we will be discussing Starship Troopers. Welcome back 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.799 tonight call. For the second half of the show, We're 0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:05.160 going to talk about little Paul verhoeven movie called Starship Troopers, 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:10.600 based on a Robert Heinlein novel. Famously right wing, militaristic 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:15.560 sci fi novel, The Verhoeven Starship Troopers is a parody 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:20.080 of fascism, and militarism. But at the time a lot 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.800 of people didn't pick up on that. Still people don't 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:28.280 pick up on that, which is remarkable. I don't know how. 0:39:28.680 --> 0:39:31.280 I don't know. I mean, I think I was thinking 0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:33.480 about it because we've been talking a lot about like 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:36.960 things that people call satire and whether it counts as 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:41.640 satire if nobody understands that it's satire, you know, does 0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:45.040 that just make it the thing it's parodying? Um? I 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:46.920 feel like that's come up a lot in the black 0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:52.360 Face discussion about sitcom's getting pulled. Um, this is particular. 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.319 Are you talking about that one? Yeah, because a lot 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.040 of people ask me about that, and I think, you know, 0:39:58.120 --> 0:39:59.759 I obviously thought about it a lot. But also it's 0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:01.839 like a lot of people were upset because they were like, well, 0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.240 they're just pulling these sitcom episodes, but like they should 0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.680 do that after we've defunded and abolished the police, like not. 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.160 It's like they're doing all the like, let's celebrate things 0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:14.200 before the thing has been done that you would be 0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:17.799 celebrating by doing, and you know the instances of the 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:21.920 Golden girls in mud masks and the like. Highly self 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:25.680 aware Roger Sterling and black face from mad Men seem 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:30.600 different than the black face instances that are clearly just 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.480 horrible people do. It also seems like you you know, 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:35.799 I think Creina Longworth said about Song of the South 0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:37.800 that it's like, when you make these things unavailable, you 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:41.200 risk turning them into fetish objects. Um. A lot of 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.799 people who like Community were really mad because it was 0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:48.160 like a beloved an episode, beloved by fans, and it's 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.680 like a half second joke in the middle of a 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:53.840 whole episode. Yeah, They're like, just re cut it, you know, 0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:56.759 without that joke so we can still enjoy this episode. 0:40:56.840 --> 0:40:59.640 But I think also it's just like just just give 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:04.839 money need to black creators and showrunners to make new stuff. Um. Yeah, 0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:07.439 And I think like I think like in the case 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:12.560 of something like Starship Troopers and and and the Roger 0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.359 Sterling episode, I think that like art's going to have 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:18.919 to comment on this stuff sometimes. I mean, I want 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:21.520 to say, also, like I think mad Men did a 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:25.040 really bad job with race overall. Like that was one 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:29.239 of my definitely criticisms of the show, and I definitely 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:32.240 thought it was going to tackle it at some point 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.719 in some kind of real way, and it just never 0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:38.160 really did, except through things like that Roger Sterling scene 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:40.640 the character of Don had like a lot on her 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:43.600 shoulders and didn't come in into like what four seasons 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:46.160 in five seasons in I can't remember, And I think 0:41:46.200 --> 0:41:48.920 they really just like avoided They thought it was like 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:51.000 too much of a third rail for the show. It's 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:53.440 like it'll make every other character on the show seemed 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:56.880 like an asshole, which they are. Um Even in that scene, 0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:59.480 I remember thinking like, is it realistic that like some 0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:02.239 people express disgusted at this or would they all just 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:06.160 like fake it while their boss did his black face routine, 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.160 Like we're definitely supposed to be grossed out by like 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.520 some of them doing it, But then some people are like, oh, 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:15.279 like I'm having a good reaction to this. That will 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.440 never be shown, you know, we'll never delve into these 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.279 issues ever again in the show. I mean, aside from 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:27.319 the historicity of uh, people being discussed or not disgusted 0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:31.279 by a minstrel performance on an episode of Mad Men 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.160 that takes place in the sixties, Like, I do think 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:38.000 that that that as a as a work of art itself, 0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:41.359 as mad Men is, Like, I think that episode does 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:45.600 a really good job of making you feel like discussed 0:42:45.920 --> 0:42:49.160 around this and it's so awkward and it's not funny, 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.879 like this is like one of this is what kind 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.440 of makes it stand out for me is that it's 0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:57.920 not funny. It is like appropriately like you kind of 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:00.399 want to turn it off because it's so cringing seen. 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:03.640 But I think that that's like aside from like, oh 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:06.719 but our hero Don Draper's woke, it doesn't like this, Like, 0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:08.680 I think that it does a good job of getting 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.479 that across. At the same time, even though I think 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.680 it does in the episode, people still like just made 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:17.280 gifts of that, you know, and then it just becomes 0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:19.759 like an image taken out of context, and like that 0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:22.719 can that can also happen with almost anything. I mean 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:24.480 you can't. I feel like that can't be something that 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:28.839 keeps you from making trying to address things like that. 0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:30.960 Like I was glad that instead of just avoiding it, 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:32.799 like you said, the third Rail, that they kind of 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:36.760 like had that in there. It is so uncomfortable. Um, 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:39.239 but also I mean, going back to Starship Troopers a 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:41.520 bit like it's it's very similar in the sense that 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:45.480 like you can take a piece of Starship Troopers and 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:48.440 use it to make the opposite argument that the movie 0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:50.320 is making and like and it is kind of crazy. 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:53.360 I was looking at old reviews, um how many people 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:57.920 critics misunderstood this, Janet Maslin. I mean everybody was like, 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:02.920 you know, this movie is intended for really immature eleven 0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:05.360 year old boys who just want to see like crazy 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:07.759 violence and ship getting blown up, and like, you know, 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:11.840 it's so militaristic, like how horrible. And it's like, yes, exactly, 0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:17.919 it's so militaristic, how horrible. Um, I I loved this movie. Uh, 0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:20.000 not to steer it too far away from the madment thing, 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:21.840 but it's it. I think it's similar, you know, it 0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:25.719 is so I said, it's fascist face exactly. Like some 0:44:25.800 --> 0:44:29.160 people were saying it's too successful. They were like, it's 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:34.440 too good at portraying this like shiny, beautiful fascist world 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:38.840 that like the critique is undermined by like how cool 0:44:38.920 --> 0:44:42.760 it looks. No, everything looks horrible in it. The ships 0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:46.280 are all ugly as fuck, like as as a sci 0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.960 fi connoisseur, like they have ugly ships and starship troopers, 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:53.360 and I feel like that's intentional. So they have the 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.880 it's all Nazi design, like it's not even you know, 0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:01.520 it's it's just directly taken from Nazi designs, like the 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:04.160 you know, the trench coat that Doogie Howser was wearing 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:08.440 at that and obviously it's like a Nazi trench coat. 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:12.440 And yeah, aside like the stuff that is even direct 0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:17.040 nods to Nazi Germany, which there are plenty, and this 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:20.799 movie like even just the tackiness of it, Like I 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:24.160 don't think that it's that it's beautiful and maybe there's 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:26.480 this like a whole politics of taste thing, but it's 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:28.520 like that kind of thing where you if you step 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:31.239 over into like a right wing website or you go 0:45:31.280 --> 0:45:33.480 down a rabbit hole or something like that and you're like, oh, 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:37.480 the graphic design sucks here, like on top of the politics. 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:40.160 It's like it is that kind of feeling, like that 0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:44.319 the whole interface for the Federal network, the do you 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:47.799 want to know more thing is like the worst kind 0:45:47.800 --> 0:45:51.759 of you know, Fox News esque infographic type ship. Like 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.160 it's I don't know, I think like it hits the 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.520 nail and it actually feels prescient now because that was 0:45:56.600 --> 0:46:01.279 like what this is like, yeah, so this is where 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:07.239 it all happened. Yeah, so it's very it feels like 0:46:07.239 --> 0:46:10.920 like Fox News and those sorts of um outlets sort 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:15.080 of took the Starship Troopers um aesthetic and ran with it. 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:21.480 Un ironically. Yeah, well it's it's parodying propaganda outlets, and 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:24.040 there's so much of that now in the way that 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:27.680 it's adapted itself to the Internet, and that like really 0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:31.960 ancient racist and anti Semitic memes of like resurfaced in 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:35.239 that way is so crazy to me, but also sort 0:46:35.320 --> 0:46:41.000 of not you know, not beyond comprehension, because yeah, if 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.200 you put things, if you put these really ugly messages 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:47.200 in this very like slick packaging, this movie also makes 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:51.920 you feel really gross and uncomfortable about all of that stuff. 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:55.160 And the whole opening is just a recreation of apart 0:46:55.200 --> 0:46:59.040 from Triumph of the Will, Yeah, there's something so unsettling 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:04.000 about that uniform many Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think 0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:06.520 the thing that I always think of and kind of 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:11.319 forget in between reviewings of Starship Troopers is um how 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:16.479 much it feels like Harry Potter, Like it's a part 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:18.840 of this like genre that's also very big in like 0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:22.080 anime and manga and stuff of like the school narrative, 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:26.080 because they start off at school. It's like three friends, 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:28.880 like where will their futures lead them? Like the like 0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:31.799 the future is so big and they're like there's they 0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:34.400 have so much promise and like they're going to excel 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:37.279 in and this class or this class like games and 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.360 wait what does it call it? Games and theory like 0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:44.040 like um, yeah, and everybody has like their their expertise 0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:47.600 and it's this very like it's this narrative that kind 0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:50.279 of takes the system that these characters are in for 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:52.520 granted and it's like, see, it's fun. It's like a 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:55.960 game to work your way up through the academy or 0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:58.840 through the military or like to become a citizen or 0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:02.239 whatever the case may be. Um, And I think, like 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:05.359 that's such a brilliant I mean, I think that's just 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.560 in the novel, but I think to kind of use 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:11.840 that sort of seemingly benign thing of like a story 0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:15.440 about friends in school to become this fascist narrative is 0:48:15.480 --> 0:48:19.920 like very very it cuts deep. Yeah. And it's also 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:23.919 this world where it's sort of like presented as being 0:48:24.000 --> 0:48:27.640 like post gender and post racial, like it's very diverse 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.040 and there's no racism and men and women shower together 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:35.280 and it's not sexual, but also like women are drone pilots, 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:39.400 Like yeah, yeah, that's like a RoboCop thing too. Denise 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:44.839 Richards is totally like an anime fascist girl. That's all 0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:48.360 I could think about. She's like perfect looking. She she 0:48:48.560 --> 0:48:54.279 is so unnaturally beautiful that it makes you uncomfortable like 0:48:54.600 --> 0:48:59.080 her her like violet eyes. Right, they both look like 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:04.000 total like dy arian Superman and woman. But then I 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:06.040 was reading more about the book and I found out 0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:10.239 that in the book, his character's Filipino and it was 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.840 whitewashed in the movie. And her character, I think is 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:17.279 Brazilian and her name is Carmen. Yeah, they're all they 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:21.840 all have like Spanish names, I think. Well, I noticed 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:24.719 in the IMDb trivia because I was very confused by that. 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:27.640 This is my first time seeing Starship Troopers, which I 0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:29.600 swear I thought I saw in college, but I was 0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:34.000 either two stoned or didn't actually see Starship Troopers. Um. 0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:38.120 But in the trivia, Casper vand And said um that 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.680 he was often asked why blonde haired, blue eyed actor 0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.680 would play the Argentinian Juan Rico. He suggested his character 0:49:44.760 --> 0:49:48.440 was the descendant of exiled Germans. Argentina was famously a 0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:51.120 hiding place of German war criminals after World War Two, 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:53.839 and they do, I mean they have that kind of 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:58.520 like German Nazi youth. Look. It seems it seems on 0:49:58.600 --> 0:50:01.680 purpose in the in the film, Yeah, he is Dutch 0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:07.239 um which is and and Verhoven lived in Nazi occupied 0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:11.520 Netherlands as a child, so he there was a quote 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:14.080 from Behoven where he called it all quiet on the 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:18.960 Final Frontier. Nice. So it is also like a critique 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:21.080 of Star Wars type stuff, any kind of like we're 0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:25.040 going to the Academy. One thing that hit really different 0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:27.920 on this viewing was the fact that the spaceport is 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:31.480 the l A Convention Center, because we very recently saw 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:34.440 the l A Convention Center occupied by the National Guard. 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:36.880 Oh and I was like, yeah, we saw it occupied 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:38.840 by a National Guard. That was like their headquarters. It 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:42.520 was also in face off, like yeah, we've been at 0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:46.200 the l A Convention Center a lot lately. Uh. The 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:49.239 thing that I love about Starship Troopers, and I was 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:51.520 also thinking about this, this is like kind of on 0:50:51.600 --> 0:50:55.440 my mind after watching Watchmen recently, is that I love 0:50:56.000 --> 0:50:59.279 a work of adaptation, and in this case, a work 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:03.160 of adaptation shin that is like actively pushing against its 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:07.440 source material and like being really actively critical about it 0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:11.000 and and using that criticism as like to create something 0:51:11.040 --> 0:51:14.880 new essentially. And um, and I think like in the 0:51:14.920 --> 0:51:17.080 case of Watchman, you have something that's sort of like 0:51:17.680 --> 0:51:20.480 and this on top of the themes that are presented 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:24.520 by the original Watchman. Like, I think, um, that stuff 0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:26.640 is super inspiring to me because I think we see 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.080 so much adaptation, Like the idea of I P is 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:32.360 so ruling everything in Hollywood right now, and it's just like, 0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:34.400 what if you could do something on the level of 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.120 a Starship Troopers where you're like, Okay, this book fucking sucks, 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:39.680 but what if I could do something with it? Like 0:51:39.840 --> 0:51:44.160 there's a great the quote for for Hoove and about it. 0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:50.359 His screenwriter Ed Neumeyer new Meyer, who also wrote RoboCop, 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:54.560 brought him the book and and wanted to adapt that 0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:56.240 he was just like a fan of it from childhood 0:51:56.320 --> 0:51:59.880 or whatever. And uh so he gave it to Paul Verhoeven. 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:03.640 This is an interview and Empire. Um, and he said 0:52:03.640 --> 0:52:05.920 I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring, 0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:09.680 says Verhoven of his attempts to read Heinlin's Opus. It 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:12.280 is really quite a bad book. I asked ed Newmeyer 0:52:12.360 --> 0:52:14.520 to tell me the story because I couldn't read the thing. 0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:17.080 It's a very right wing book. And with the movie, 0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:19.400 we tried and I think at least partially succeeded in 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:22.120 commenting on that. At the same time, it would be 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:24.719 an eyr key can have it all the way through. 0:52:24.760 --> 0:52:27.640 We were fighting with the fascism, the ultramilitarism all the 0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:29.920 way through. I wanted the audience to be asking are 0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:33.200 these people crazy? So I don't know, and I think, 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.239 like for me it works, but obviously for some people 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:39.680 that like didn't didn't get through. But yeah, and you 0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:42.120 know he's he mentions the bugs as sort of just 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:46.759 like this stand in for any kind of like military foe. Um. 0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:49.080 Robert Highland wrote the book during the Cold War because 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:54.160 he was mad we weren't having hot wars anymore. He 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:59.359 was like, we should be like developing nuclear weapons and stuff. Um, 0:53:00.080 --> 0:53:03.040 And he blamed it this is such a sci fi 0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:05.480 nerd guy thing to do. He blamed it on like 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:09.560 young people having too much freedom. It was like, uh, 0:53:10.360 --> 0:53:14.800 was the downfall of society that society would remake itself 0:53:14.880 --> 0:53:18.640 as this like perfect fascist world after like juvenile delinquents 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:23.200 destroyed America, you know. Yeah. Is there's a scene in 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:26.880 the classroom at the beginning where, um is it Dizzy 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:30.080 is like, oh, I thought like violence doesn't solve everything, 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:32.560 and her teacher like puts her in her place, and 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:36.040 like there's so much that flies by in that scene 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:41.120 that's fascinating, Like where like the teacher essays of like 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:43.920 something that's given to you has no value. Only something 0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:47.400 that's taken by force has any value. Um, and like 0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:51.239 the moral difference between the citizen and the civilian. Uh yeah, 0:53:51.440 --> 0:53:53.759 like total recall. There's a lot of stuff in this 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:57.560 about having to earn your rights, having to earn your citizenship. 0:53:57.960 --> 0:53:59.960 Well that's like when they're in the shower, I'll take 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:02.920 other everyone's asking like why did you enlist? And I 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:05.600 mean among the answers. Or someone wanted to go to 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:08.320 Harvard and they were like, but I can't go unless, 0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:10.399 like I'm a citizen, and you know, then they'll help 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:12.520 pay for it. Someone else was like I want to 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:14.680 have babies and so I need to be a citizens. 0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:20.120 So any kind of yeah, everything is is dictated by 0:54:20.160 --> 0:54:22.560 your service in the military. Yeah, and it sort of 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:26.440 demonstrates like the way that you know, US military recruiting 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:28.680 does that It's like these people aren't evil, They're just 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:33.719 like poor simps who got you know, promised things. This 0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:36.000 is like a better plan for them than anything else. 0:54:36.840 --> 0:54:41.400 You feel bad for them. Well. Also, the promotional videos 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:44.040 that they kind of make of these kids who are 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:47.960 so like almost seem that they're jacked upon emphetamine with 0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:52.359 the excitement of fighting the arachnids. Um. I mean, it's 0:54:52.440 --> 0:54:55.600 it's very similar to the kind of propaganda that the 0:54:56.000 --> 0:54:59.279 that is used by the military to entice people who are, 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:03.080 you know, in high school basically you need a way out. 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:06.080 This made me read a lot about the Reich Labor Service, 0:55:06.280 --> 0:55:09.960 which was problem in Nazi Germany. It was basically like 0:55:10.000 --> 0:55:12.719 they leveraged unemployment to get all these young people to 0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:17.640 join the Nazi labor Service, and it was basically what 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:19.759 is in this movie where you earn your rights, you 0:55:19.840 --> 0:55:24.000 earn things by executing your service. That's how you earn citizenship. 0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:26.600 And it was kind of presented in this very like 0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:30.520 gender equitable way as like one of the great things 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:33.200 about like Nazi Germany will be that like women will 0:55:33.239 --> 0:55:37.200 have you know, promise the future of women in the workplace, 0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:40.120 uh in a fascist regime, and like you can go 0:55:40.320 --> 0:55:43.040 whenever you want, right like you'll have you'll there will 0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:45.160 be a place for you if you help, like you know, 0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:48.399 trod everybody else under your boot who's lesser than you. 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.879 There was also the whole thing about like I thought 0:55:51.880 --> 0:55:54.840 the interesting, like the sports aspect of it at the beginning. 0:55:54.880 --> 0:55:57.239 It was also kind of funny. It like links like 0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:02.360 sports and like sex and the military altogether is like 0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:05.319 part of a never ending ring of youthful energy. And 0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:09.040 it's like it's like the presentation of an enemy, like 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:12.680 anything that you can narrativize is like this guy's gonna 0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:15.560 take your girl, or like this is the rival football team, 0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:18.000 or you know, or those bugs want to kill you. 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:22.080 Like it's that these these people only respond when there 0:56:22.160 --> 0:56:24.920 is an enemy that they can like they have like 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:28.080 Casper Veending's character basically a zero direction in his life 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:30.399 unless something is trying to take something that's his, whether 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:35.400 it's his like his his hometown getting attacked by the bugs, 0:56:35.640 --> 0:56:39.200 or somebody tried to steal his girl, Like that's the 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:43.319 only thing that mobilizes him. It's all percent reactionary. That's 0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:45.920 what's also scary about now, is you know, looking at 0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:48.120 the stuff about the rich labor force, it's like, oh, 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.600 everybody was unemployed and they were directionless and all they 0:56:51.640 --> 0:56:53.640 wanted was like to have a job again and to 0:56:53.719 --> 0:56:56.799 have someone to tell them what to do. And you 0:56:56.880 --> 0:57:00.239 know a lot of people were just following order. Is 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:03.359 like not everybody was a Nazi general, but a lot 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:06.719 of people were just like complicit by being part of 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:11.120 it because they didn't have any better options. There's uh, 0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:15.280 I think the l a p d um Twitter account 0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:20.560 recently has been posting like stories of officers or something 0:57:20.680 --> 0:57:23.160 to I don't know, to like in gender sympathy for 0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:28.000 the l a p D or something, or to humanize copaganda. Yeah, yeah, 0:57:28.440 --> 0:57:31.600 straight from the cops in this case, Like yeah, it's 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:33.920 always it always comes from the cops, but it's on 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:36.800 like every local news show and stuff like that. But 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:39.760 it's stuff like you know, like I grew up poor 0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:42.680 and like I was the first person from my family 0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:45.920 to go to college and like I and like in 0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:47.960 this last one, I think this is just today like 0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:51.760 the tweets that's something like you know I had every excuse, 0:57:52.280 --> 0:57:54.240 like did not say what the excuse was for. Like 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.320 I had every excuse, I guess what to be like 0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:02.240 a not not a cop um, but I didn't take it, 0:58:02.360 --> 0:58:04.280 like and I decided that I wanted to like serve 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:06.680 my city by being in the military. It's so Starship 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:09.520 Troopers all this ship like it's so like like I'm 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:14.160 doing my part. Like it's just very um transparent for sure. 0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:16.160 And the fact that you have like a white power 0:58:16.320 --> 0:58:21.080 army in this movie but it's diverse is like very unsettling. Um, 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:26.000 Like you can have Jake Bucy and black women fighting 0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:31.720 side by side in the military. Man you see another 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:37.000 through line? Yeah, we so what other movie was the 0:58:37.040 --> 0:58:39.800 Freaky guy in Contact? He is the freaky guy? So 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:43.240 he apparently everybody was suffering from heat stroke um while 0:58:43.280 --> 0:58:46.600 filming Starship Troopers. I guess when they were in the 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:50.200 bad Lands in Wyoming. Um maybe that was there, but 0:58:50.600 --> 0:58:52.920 everybody it was like a hundred and twenty five degrees. 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.720 And I thought I read that Jake Bucy suffered a 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:59.280 horrible like a stroke stroke or something and they had 0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:01.320 to take like a week off. But he is he 0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:05.320 is giving an amazing performance. Again, I'm like it it 0:59:05.720 --> 0:59:13.480 besides being a really like timely critique of militarization and um, 0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:15.800 you know a lot of stuff that we're seeing going 0:59:15.840 --> 0:59:19.760 on now. It also like the the excitement and the 0:59:19.960 --> 0:59:24.840 fervor and the like optimism of these kids in this 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:29.640 movie is so intense in that it's being used for 0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:32.920 such evil, but it's like this bright, big white tooth 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:37.840 smile and these big guys, it's so scary. They're being 0:59:37.880 --> 0:59:41.000 told that they're going to be heroes and legends, like 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.640 they see everybody at the beginning of the movie who's 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:46.840 missing limbs, you know. And that actor, by the way, 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:50.440 is actually um a double ampute, which I did not know. 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:53.240 He was great. Yeah, he encounters all these people that 0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:55.560 are like, oh, you're going to fight the bugs like 0:59:55.680 --> 0:59:59.800 good walk but like infantry made me the man I 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:03.640 with like points system anything where it's like they're telling 1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:06.400 you know, you're you're just like a you're a meat 1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:11.040 shield basically, but they are selling you this idea that 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:13.840 you're something other than that. You guys are really making 1:00:13.880 --> 1:00:16.160 me want to revisit this movie because I haven't seen 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:20.040 it since I was like ten. I think that's yeah, 1:00:20.080 --> 1:00:23.080 it's on Netflix now. I mean, like I can't imagine 1:00:23.080 --> 1:00:28.160 being a child and watching this. It's so it's hyper violent, 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.479 cool and like there's such a What I remember most 1:00:31.480 --> 1:00:34.880 about it is the coldness with which like punishment was 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.200 applied and the way in which they addressed like all 1:00:37.240 --> 1:00:39.800 of their desks, and that like really freaked me out. 1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:42.400 I was like, especially the whipping scene because I was 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:45.480 fresh offs and I was like, what is happening with 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:48.320 all these because my parents are showing me so violent 1:00:48.360 --> 1:00:51.440 and horrifying. Um. But I was interested to hear what 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:54.520 you guys think about especially I don't know if you 1:00:54.680 --> 1:00:57.920 have any thoughts on it, but like the costuming specifically 1:00:58.120 --> 1:01:01.040 and the way it's sort of like if you if 1:01:01.040 --> 1:01:03.920 I think about fashion at this time, like late nineties 1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:09.280 early because it's like what seven yeah, um, and this 1:01:09.400 --> 1:01:13.320 idea of like military clothing suddenly becoming hip, especially the 1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:17.760 like yes yes and the big pants and stuff. Did 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:20.840 that leave any impression on you guys? Yeah? I mean 1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:24.040 I think I think style is the way that people 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:28.440 often launder fascism, you know, is like oh but it's 1:01:28.480 --> 1:01:31.360 such a good logo, um, which I feel like we 1:01:31.360 --> 1:01:34.160 were kind of talking about with the flag before, like 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:36.800 you know, That's what's scary about symbols, as they can 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.720 be used to kind of cover up crimes. That's what 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:43.280 we talk about in the Olympics a lot my anti 1:01:43.320 --> 1:01:46.400 Olympics group, because a lot of people are very attached 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:50.400 to the graphic design of the Olympics UM. But again, 1:01:50.440 --> 1:01:52.800 it's like that's used to kind of cover up a 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:57.160 lot of abuse and financial fucked up behavior. I think 1:01:57.240 --> 1:02:01.520 also like going back to the sort of um the 1:02:01.640 --> 1:02:07.320 sort of egalitarianism between like genders and this like it 1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:09.880 is kind of an andragugous thing. Like Denise Richard does 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:12.560 not aside from like the party scene or whatever. She's 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:16.040 not like dressed sexy or anything. She's just like a pilot. 1:02:16.560 --> 1:02:18.520 And there's this sort of like and I feel like 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:21.400 that's something that always is getting that's always a point 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:26.280 of conversation in like genre stuff and in video games 1:02:26.400 --> 1:02:28.800 it's like why can't the woman who's holding the two 1:02:28.840 --> 1:02:33.120 machine guns, you know, like not be sexual? See, I 1:02:33.160 --> 1:02:36.000 find it just I find it just as scary when 1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:40.040 she's like cutie Panzer Division, Like that was so scary 1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:43.160 to me. She's just like yeah, when she's wearing the 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:48.120 Nazi uniform and just like smiling like shooting, and you know, 1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:51.040 and then at the end when Doogie Houser feels the 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:53.360 bug when they see you, like the last living bug 1:02:54.720 --> 1:02:58.160 and it's afraid and they all cheer. Well, that's like 1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:03.200 the most on the nose. The um Patrick Harris's costume 1:03:03.280 --> 1:03:05.360 is like the most post on the nose s S 1:03:05.440 --> 1:03:09.040 Officer type ship. To Joel's point, I think a lot 1:03:09.080 --> 1:03:11.640 of that stuff came back under the guys of like 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:14.720 we're so far removed from actual Nazis, we can do 1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:17.320 this as fashion now, like Hugo Boss can be a 1:03:17.400 --> 1:03:22.439 legitimate brand that advertising, right, Like Hugo Boss did come 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:25.240 back really big in the nineties for sure, but also 1:03:25.280 --> 1:03:29.840 like all these seventies rock guys bought Nazi memorabilia, you know, 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:34.920 to be like Edge Lords of the seventies, Prince Harry, Right, 1:03:35.040 --> 1:03:37.680 lots of people think it's like we're so far away 1:03:37.680 --> 1:03:43.760 from it, but we're never that far away from it, clearly. Yeah. 1:03:44.160 --> 1:03:46.400 I mean it's also like, like I do think it's 1:03:46.440 --> 1:03:49.800 interesting that we're talking about starship troopers and this kind 1:03:49.800 --> 1:03:52.800 of stuff right after talking about the flag, because like, 1:03:53.880 --> 1:03:56.920 I don't know, I mean, I I still keep coming 1:03:56.920 --> 1:03:59.280 back to the fact that there are just two completely 1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:04.040 different readings of this movie, and that we're all very 1:04:04.080 --> 1:04:07.200 confident and comfortable with our reading. It was what it 1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:10.520 was intended to be read that way. But it's it's 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:14.520 weird that people can like miss putting together all of 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:16.920 these elements and all of these clues about the message 1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:20.120 behind this movie. Like people who are really seasoned at 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:22.720 like taking apart movies, and I mean, I wouldn't say 1:04:22.800 --> 1:04:24.760 or they just you know, believe in The Forever War. 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:27.360 There is a book, like an anti war sci fi 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:29.919 book written in response to this book called The Forever War, 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.800 where it's like the the Minians sort of like realized 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:37.600 that they're being used for cannon fodder and that um. 1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:39.600 But for Hovan said, this movie was really his own 1:04:39.600 --> 1:04:43.160 response to like America after World War Two becoming just 1:04:43.240 --> 1:04:46.640 like increasingly imperialistic and involving itself in all kinds of 1:04:46.680 --> 1:04:49.400 conflicts that it didn't need to be part of. But 1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:52.160 you know, America had to be convinced to go into 1:04:52.200 --> 1:04:54.680 World War two because a lot of people did not 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:58.320 think we belonged there. We're on the fence for a 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:01.400 long time about World War Two. It turns out well 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:04.240 he's for having said too that this is based parts 1:05:04.240 --> 1:05:06.160 of it are patterned after Triumph of the Will, but 1:05:06.280 --> 1:05:09.800 also after the Frank Capra response to Triumph of the 1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:13.120 Will that was meant to like in gender the same 1:05:13.200 --> 1:05:16.280 kind of patriotism and Americans and be like, this is 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:20.000 why we have to go do this, um, because Frank 1:05:20.000 --> 1:05:22.560 Capra was like terrified by Triumph of the Will. He 1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:24.880 was like, this is such a good work of propaganda. 1:05:24.920 --> 1:05:28.240 We have to make an equally good work of propaganda. 1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:30.480 And there's some stuff in the Frank Capra one that's 1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:34.040 totally false. There's like a you know, it's obviously very 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:38.680 racist towards the Japanese, but there's just like some some 1:05:38.720 --> 1:05:41.680 conspiracy stuff in it that was maybe used to help 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:46.960 speed the process along of getting America on board. No. 1:05:47.240 --> 1:05:52.000 I've been um listening to the current hardcore history about 1:05:52.040 --> 1:05:55.720 the Pacific theater of World War two a lot, and 1:05:55.760 --> 1:05:59.880 it's very interesting to see the whole West Coast history 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:05.000 of of demonizing Japanese people through all that in ways 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:06.880 that I kind of knew about it in a cursory way, 1:06:06.920 --> 1:06:12.919 but never never in depth. Um. But yeah, it's wild um. 1:06:13.480 --> 1:06:17.520 And again it is all about finding a common enemy 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:21.640 on getting creating a narrative and like and then and 1:06:21.680 --> 1:06:25.040 then created a system that can be seen as blameless, 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:30.600 like somehow the the idea of police in this country 1:06:30.640 --> 1:06:33.480 being something that people just take for granted and that 1:06:33.640 --> 1:06:35.680 it works and like, well, we gotta have police. We 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:39.479 can't not have police. Um, Like it's the same as 1:06:40.320 --> 1:06:43.360 this military system in this film. Like I was going 1:06:43.400 --> 1:06:48.720 back to the flogging scene that the gentleman mentioned Joel mentioned, 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:52.000 is uh, like there's something in that scene where I think, 1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:54.960 like if you don't get it by then you're kind 1:06:54.960 --> 1:06:57.280 of like I don't know what to I don't know 1:06:57.320 --> 1:06:59.520 what to tell you because it's just like there are 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:02.560 a couple parts like that too. Well the I think 1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:05.400 like by the like from the opening segment, like if 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:07.760 you don't get that, but also by that scene scene 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:10.840 because it's like the idea of that scene is not 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.520 Oh my god, this this system that I have signed 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:17.400 up for is hurting me and is blaming for some 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:20.040 me for some like this horrible thing that happened that 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:22.360 ultimately I didn't have that much control over and now 1:07:22.360 --> 1:07:26.320 I'm being like publicly flogged for it. Uh. It's like 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:28.600 it's like, no, this is good for him. This is 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.840 gonna like make him better within this stem, which is 1:07:31.880 --> 1:07:35.080 so like that's you know, and and then and so 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:38.400 the hero of the movie then, or the hero of 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:43.200 the Highland story at least is the system that and 1:07:43.280 --> 1:07:46.960 that the system will make this person better, uh, and 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:48.920 that you can be improved through it, and the system 1:07:48.960 --> 1:07:53.000 knows best. There's like a brief mention of showing executions 1:07:53.040 --> 1:08:01.560 on TV. Yeah, yeah, tonight at six the electric chair. Yeah, yeah, 1:08:01.600 --> 1:08:04.000 the only difference I think. I you know, this also 1:08:04.040 --> 1:08:05.720 made me think about the Purge, which has come up 1:08:05.760 --> 1:08:10.160 a lot in my mind in the past. While um 1:08:10.240 --> 1:08:12.160 in that, I was like, you're right, like the Nazi 1:08:12.280 --> 1:08:14.600 uniform now, like the uniform that scares me now is 1:08:14.640 --> 1:08:18.599 not a trench code. It's like, you know, the bugaloo stuff, 1:08:18.640 --> 1:08:21.360 Like it's somebody with like a Blue Lives Matter sticker 1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:24.160 on their car and like a Hawaiian shirt. You know. 1:08:24.479 --> 1:08:29.040 Still the fatigues, the cargo shorts. Yeah, just like that 1:08:29.160 --> 1:08:31.559 to me is even scarier because it's like so dressed 1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:36.760 down and informal. You know, it's like it's terrifying. I'm 1:08:36.800 --> 1:08:39.559 just I'm just dude. To a cook out. Somebody was 1:08:39.560 --> 1:08:42.200 posting once today that we're all these like Disney like 1:08:42.360 --> 1:08:45.640 Mickey Blue Lives Matter flag inside a Mickey and it 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:48.960 just says like daddy on it. You know. I was 1:08:49.040 --> 1:08:53.960 like that, that's the scariest thing I've ever seen. Take 1:08:54.000 --> 1:08:57.760 it away, no, thank you. Well, if you haven't seen 1:08:57.800 --> 1:09:00.200 Starship Troopers in a while, might be a good time 1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:02.080 to watch it. And if you think that you don't 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:05.160 like it, it might hit different now. It might might 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:09.640 pointed out like say that I saw Jaws yesterday. I 1:09:09.680 --> 1:09:12.880 don't know what time is anymore. But you have a 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:18.040 mayor denying people or not informing his community about a 1:09:18.160 --> 1:09:22.640 deadly shark and opening the beaches because listen July and 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:25.000 we need to make money and this is how we survive. 1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:29.720 Oh my god, we're all freaking weird. Is the timeliest 1:09:29.720 --> 1:09:32.120 thing to it was Ship the other day or maybe 1:09:32.200 --> 1:09:34.000 like I'd recorded it and I was like, this is 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:36.680 too real. But it's also such a good movie. And 1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:41.240 so you're saying l al Fresco is Joss, Yes, Yes, 1:09:43.600 --> 1:09:49.920 is Garcetti the giant shark? Is he Bruce? He's the mayor? 1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:53.679 Oh my god? Well yeah, check that out. It makes 1:09:53.720 --> 1:09:55.680 for good Fourth of July view, and I think if 1:09:55.720 --> 1:09:57.679 you have to stay inside for your Fourth of July, 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.720 might as well watched our ship Troopers and and Jaws. 1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:05.840 Sounds American enough to me. That's a good double bill. 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:09.799 We all back that double bill. Yeah, thanks for listening 1:10:09.800 --> 1:10:12.680 to Night Call this week. You can follow us on 1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:17.480 social at Nightcall pod on Twitter, Nightcall Podcasts, and Instagram 1:10:17.479 --> 1:10:21.280 and Facebook. Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever 1:10:21.320 --> 1:10:23.160 you get your podcast, and leave us a rating and 1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:26.760 review on Apple Little Podcasts. That would be lovely. We 1:10:26.760 --> 1:10:29.600 would appreciate it. Um. You can also support us on 1:10:29.600 --> 1:10:32.599 our Patreon at patreon dot com slash Nightcall. You can 1:10:32.600 --> 1:10:35.920 get our newsletter, bonus episodes, merge all sorts of fun 1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:38.880 stuff there. So check that out and we will be 1:10:38.920 --> 1:10:43.120 back next week. We are also looking for stories from 1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:47.880 teachers and students who have emerged now from the very 1:10:47.960 --> 1:10:52.040 strangest school year ever. Um. We would love to hear 1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:54.599 your experiences of how this period of time has been. 1:10:54.720 --> 1:10:56.760 So if you would like to give us a night 1:10:56.800 --> 1:10:59.960 Call at two four oh four six night you can 1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:02.320 be anonymous just let us know. You can also send 1:11:02.400 --> 1:11:05.920 us an email at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com. 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:08.200 Just let us know if you wouldn't like to be identified, 1:11:08.320 --> 1:11:11.120 or if you have a nickname that no one will 1:11:11.160 --> 1:11:13.760 be able to identify you by, you can give us that. 1:11:14.360 --> 1:11:16.559 Um thanks a lot, and we're hoping to to show 1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:18.400 those stories in upcoming episodes.