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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Too Much Information, the show that brings

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Speaker 1: you the secret stories and little known, behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: details about your favorite movies, music, TV shows, and more.

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Speaker 1: We are your foreman of facts. My name is Jordan

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Speaker 1: Runta and I'm Alex Saigel, and today we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about truly one of my all time favorite

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Speaker 1: movies as a kid, The Never Ending Story. And you

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Speaker 1: know how little kids get into this routine where they

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Speaker 1: watch movies over and over again, That's how I was

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Speaker 1: with this movie. They were showings of this movie in

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Speaker 1: my house horribly daily. Oh yeah, I couldn't get enough

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Speaker 1: of this movie. It was just always on. It has

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Speaker 1: to be part of my genetic code at this point.

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Speaker 1: Like whenever I see storm clouds off in the distance,

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Speaker 1: I think of Madridded nothing. Whenever I see a beautiful

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Speaker 1: white horse, I think of our tax and his demise

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Speaker 1: and the swamp of sadness. I tray, you still the

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Speaker 1: coolest kid who's ever lived, as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: And it was really only after revisiting this movie for

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Speaker 1: this episode that I realized the Ending Story is kind

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Speaker 1: of terrifying. Yeah, it's dark, So we're really hitting our

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Speaker 1: personal kinder trauma trifecta this summer. We've got I know,

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Speaker 1: we we we gotta save some of these for season two. Man,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna run out of all this. Yeah, who friend

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Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit and the never ending Story. Sorry to all

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Speaker 1: of our listeners for all of the repressed nightmares that

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Speaker 1: these episodes may have dredged up. Don't worry, We're not

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Speaker 1: sleeping either.

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Speaker 2: This is one of those.

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Speaker 1: Movies that I assumed that everybody of our age group

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Speaker 1: had a personal connection with, like you know, the Lion

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Speaker 1: King or Beauty and the Beast or something. But after

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Speaker 1: talking to you, I'm starting to get the sense that

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Speaker 1: that's not the case. What's your relationship like with this movie?

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Speaker 1: Non existently?

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Speaker 2: I yeah, I mean as far as fantasy stuff, growing up,

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Speaker 2: it was Princess pooh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh we should totally do that too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the bigger thing for me was Star Wars.

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Speaker 2: I mean that guy was a Star Wars kid. Didn't

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Speaker 2: know that, but oh yeah, oh oh yeah yeah. In

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Speaker 2: many ways, I pined the death of my childhood on

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Speaker 2: two late nineties properties, which is Batman and Robin as

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Speaker 2: we've talked about many times and the prequels. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: but no, I get back to never any story. I

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Speaker 2: think I have literally seen this movie once.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I think we've watched it in like teacher has a hangover,

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Speaker 2: we're going to watch movies day in like middle school,

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Speaker 2: and then I just never revisited it. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: remember being exposed to that scream O band or Metalcore

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Speaker 2: or whatever the band to tray You more than the

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Speaker 2: actual child's character tray You, which is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Do you have any images burned in at Morse Dying?

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Speaker 1: For sure? I mean I think I actually I confused

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Speaker 1: the rock dude from this movie with the one from

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Speaker 1: Return to Oz because I saw a Return to Oz

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Speaker 1: way too early, and I remember like being like, I

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Speaker 1: have the wheelie guys for me, is like, which is common,

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Speaker 1: Like everyone was like, what the are those things doing

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Speaker 1: in a child's movie? But I think I saw that

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Speaker 1: at like six or seven and was like, oh goodness, Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll see over the course of this episode

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Speaker 1: what horrifying memories shake loose from your subconscious. It's time

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Speaker 1: to dive in to our never ending episode. You'll learn

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Speaker 1: the many ways that the kid who played a tray

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Speaker 1: you nearly died on the set, the true fate of

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Speaker 1: that horse that sank in the quicksand the insane length

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Speaker 1: they went to build Falcore the Luck Dragon out of

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Speaker 1: airplane pieces, and Steven Spielberg's secret role in helping finish

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Speaker 1: the movie. So here is everything you never knew about

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Speaker 1: The never Ending Story. Wow. Given the popularity of The

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Speaker 1: Never Ending Story of the movie, it may surprise fans

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Speaker 1: to learn that the film was actually based on a

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine children's novel by German author Michael Ende,

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Speaker 1: who hated the film adaptations so much that he sued

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Speaker 1: the studio. Well, let me backtrack a bit. The book

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Speaker 1: was phenomenally popular in Germany and around the world, but

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Speaker 1: especially in Germany, where it stayed at the top of

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Speaker 1: the literary charts for three years and sold more than

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Speaker 1: a million copies before being translated into twenty seven different languages,

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Speaker 1: including English. It sold quite well in the States as well.

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Speaker 1: I think it sold something like one hundred thousand copies.

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Speaker 1: The utopian themes of The Never Ending Story book were

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Speaker 1: embraced by anti nuclear activists at the dawn of the

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Speaker 1: eighties and I've seen reports that people would line up

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Speaker 1: around the block and camp out in sleeping bags in

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Speaker 1: order to hear the author, Michael Ende speak. So this

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Speaker 1: was a big deal. And doing a film adaptation of

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Speaker 1: this book was basically like making Harry Potter or something

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Speaker 1: in the early eighties. This was a big deal. Michael

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Speaker 1: Ende seems I think that's how you say his name.

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Speaker 1: He seems to have something of a persecution complex. He

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Speaker 1: said that the critical reaction to the book quote ranged

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Speaker 1: from amazement to black rage. You could enter the literary

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Speaker 1: salon from prison, from the insane asylum, from a whorehouse, everywhere,

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Speaker 1: but from the children's room. So yeah, mixed reaction. That's

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Speaker 1: a pretty incredible quote, to be fair. Yeah, no, it's true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess yeah, it probably is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I don't know any children's authors personally, but

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Speaker 1: it must be hard to get that sense of respect,

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Speaker 1: you know, that is afforded to people who have like

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Speaker 1: a gritty personal story that was told from you know,

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Speaker 1: prison diaries or you know something some kind of harrowing

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Speaker 1: personal memoir or some well speaking of arrowing personal memoir.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you have a lot to say about this author. Yeah. He.

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Speaker 2: His father was a surrealist painter in Germany. His work was,

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Speaker 2: like many others, shut down by the Nazis, and Michael

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Speaker 2: was twelve years old when the first air raid took

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Speaker 2: place above Munich, about which he has a delightful quote

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Speaker 2: that I was unable to verify but don't want to

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Speaker 2: know the truth about, frankly, because it can't be worse

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Speaker 2: than you assume.

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Speaker 1: Quote. I remember singing and careening through the blaze like

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Speaker 1: a drunkard. I was in the grip of a kind

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Speaker 1: of euphoria. I still don't truly understand it, but I

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Speaker 1: was almost tempted to cast myself into the fire like

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Speaker 1: a moth into the light, which imagine I can't do it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't bring this prepared. But imagine

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Speaker 1: that in Werner Hertzeg's voice, I say doctor Evil. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that works too close. Yeah yeah, yeah, Wow. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: so much about never ending story, like the swamp of

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Speaker 1: sadness and the nothing, just this impending aerial force coming

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Speaker 1: sweeping over the Okay, this is all starting to make

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Speaker 1: sense now. Wow.

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Speaker 2: He was visiting his uncle during the nineteen forty three

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Speaker 2: Hamburg bombing, which was one of those horrifying carpet bombing

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Speaker 2: situations like Dresden. They blew up I think a petroleum

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Speaker 2: there's a petroleum refinery or something like that, and then

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Speaker 2: the whole town went up and it was like a

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Speaker 2: horrifying firestorm. Thirty seven thousand people died.

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Speaker 1: Oh my yeah. A year later, his father's studio burns

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Speaker 1: up and he loses like the bulk of his work.

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Speaker 1: And then in nineteen forty five, the kid is drafted

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Speaker 1: into the Volkstrum, which was like the.

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Speaker 2: Quote volunteer German Army. A bunch of his classmates went

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Speaker 2: to war and died, three of them.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's not a bunch. That's enough children dying.

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Speaker 1: And then he tore up his draft papers and joined

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Speaker 1: a Bavarian resistance movement. Cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so quite the CV, even before he created one

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Speaker 2: of the most immortal children's books of all time.

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Speaker 1: Wow. I guess what I say I'm saying is he's

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Speaker 1: earned that persecution complex. Okay, because he was literally persecuted.

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Speaker 1: I take that back. Thank you for putting me straight

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Speaker 1: on that. Well, back to slightly happier occasions in this

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Speaker 1: man's life. He sold the film rights to the never

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Speaker 1: ending story for fifty thousand dollars, which I find to

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Speaker 1: be a pretty low figure considering his popularity, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: this is what helped sow the seeds of resentment in

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Speaker 1: years to come. According to an interviewed he gave with

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Speaker 1: the German newspaper Dershpiegel, his first choice for director was

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Speaker 1: a Kira Kurosawa, the legendary Japanese director. His second choice

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Speaker 1: was Polish director Andrejta Is that how you say that?

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Speaker 1: I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: I googled that. I mean Okira Kurasaw was would be incredible.

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Speaker 2: But I googled this guy Andres and he won like

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Speaker 2: an honorary Oscar he won the palmed Or Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: just funny. It's like when Morris he was putting out

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Speaker 2: his autobiography and he's like, it has to come out

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Speaker 2: on Penguin Classics. Oh yeah, Like, way to pick two

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Speaker 2: of the most iconic, apparently twentieth century directors as the

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Speaker 2: guys to do your children's book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't tell if this speaks to like the

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Speaker 1: high popular regard for this book or for the author's arrogance.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit of both. Again, he really wants

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Speaker 1: that cred. He really wants that cred. He's not getting

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Speaker 1: it from coming in through the kid's door. He's sitting

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Speaker 1: at the kid's stable, so that's interesting. But ultimately they

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Speaker 1: got Wolfgang Peterson as director and more on him director

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Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson's director, Wolfgang Peterson. Fans of the podcast will

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Speaker 1: know him from our Air Force one episode, so more

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Speaker 1: on him soon. But together, Wolfgang Peterson and author Michael

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Speaker 1: Endey collaborate on the script, and the author later said

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Speaker 1: I worked as an advisor because I wanted a beautiful movie.

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Speaker 1: I trusted them. Then things went south in a pretty

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Speaker 1: big way. Michael ende claimed that Peterson later secretly rewrote

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Speaker 1: the screenplay, making major changes that offended him deeply, and

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Speaker 1: he's quoted as saying, I saw the final script five

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Speaker 1: days before the movie's premiere, and I was horrified they

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Speaker 1: had changed the whole sense of the story. And he

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Speaker 1: objected to numerous additions to the movie that were not

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Speaker 1: found in the original book, specifically the final scene of

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Speaker 1: the movie. You'll remember that the movie opens with the

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Speaker 1: nerdy bastion, the kid Bastian, getting tormented by bullies and

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Speaker 1: he hides out in the school's attic and reads this

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Speaker 1: enchanted book, and the adventures within the book kind of

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Speaker 1: formed the bulk of the movie. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the movie, after Bastion has developed confidence through what he's

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Speaker 1: read in this book, he flies into the real world

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Speaker 1: on the back of Falcore, the luck Dragon, and he

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Speaker 1: gets revenge on his bullies. So suddenly this fantasy world

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Speaker 1: enters the real world. Author Michael Ende violently objected to

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Speaker 1: that scene, saying that it undercut the meaning of this story,

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Speaker 1: and he angrily told producers, you're trying to do a

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Speaker 1: Disney movie, to which they basically said, yeah, yep, Shire

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Speaker 1: are exactly as we're trying to do. That's our bit. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He also objected to this is my favorite part, the

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Speaker 1: twin laser shooting oracle statues, which he felt were a

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Speaker 1: little too voluptuous. He later said, the sphinxes are one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest embarrassments of the film. They are full

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Speaker 1: bosomed strippers who sit there in the desert. Sounds like

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Speaker 1: a Russ Meyers movie. So the author was pissed, so

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Speaker 1: pissed that he attempted to halt the movie by filing

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit against the movie's German production company for breach

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Speaker 1: of contract. When the suit was dismissed, he tried to

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Speaker 1: get them to change the name of the movie, which

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Speaker 1: also failed. Ultimately, he organized a press conference to coincide

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Speaker 1: with the release of the film, which he referred to

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Speaker 1: as quote the Revolting Movie. The makers of the film

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Speaker 1: simply did not understand the book at all. They just

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Speaker 1: wanted to make money, and he was so ashamed of

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Speaker 1: the final product that they refused to have his name

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Speaker 1: in the opening credits of the film, instead opting for

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Speaker 1: just a small mention in the closing credits. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about director Wolfgang Peterson's sort of take on

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Speaker 1: all this basically says most authors aren't happy with movie

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Speaker 1: adaptations of their books because it's really hard to compress

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Speaker 1: everything that happens in a novel into ninety minutes two

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Speaker 1: hours of screen time. Not to mention, this book is

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Speaker 1: so fantastical. There are so many elements that just technologically speaking,

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Speaker 1: couldn't be put on the screen anyway. So this guy

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Speaker 1: didn't take kindly to having his words and stories altered,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of needed to be to appear on screen.

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Speaker 1: Is that famous story about Vlatibourn Nabokov writing the screenplay

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Speaker 1: for Lolita, the original screenplay, and it was like I

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Speaker 1: think it was something. It was like over three hundred pages,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, we can't make this, we can't

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Speaker 1: lift this quote. That's great.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean using that as a springboard, we might

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Speaker 2: as well do a lightning round of other famous authors

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Speaker 2: who were displeased with the cinematic adaptations of their work,

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Speaker 2: starting with probably one of the most famous one, Stephen

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Speaker 2: King versus Stanley Kubrick. Stephen King was a big fan

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Speaker 2: of Kubrick, but he disliked that adaptation of The Shining

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Speaker 2: calling it a big, beautiful Cadillac with no engine inside.

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Speaker 2: Coming from the author of Christine, that's harsh, that's harsh words.

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Speaker 2: And he especially did not like Shelley Duvall. Hi, I'm

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Speaker 2: Shelley Duvall. Shelley Duvall's performance, which I don't think is fair.

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Speaker 2: This is a horrible quote. He told the BBC. She's

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Speaker 2: basically just there to scream and be stupid, and that's

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Speaker 2: not the woman that I wrote about. That performance is

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Speaker 2: a triumph. How dare you?

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Speaker 1: King may have been unduly influenced by Kubrick's weird habits

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Speaker 1: during filming, one of which I just remembered that he

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Speaker 1: called Stephen King like late at night, asking him stuff

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Speaker 1: like do you believe in God? Wow?

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Speaker 2: Anyway, moving on another Kubrick boy Buddy and Kubrick did.

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Speaker 1: Nabokov's Lolita too, and I don't think Avokov was particularly

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Speaker 1: happy with his adaptation of that either, so stracking out

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Speaker 1: right and left. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Burgess, author of Clockwork Orange, was so upset by

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Speaker 2: Kubrick's film adaptation that he said he wished he had

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Speaker 2: never written the novel in the first place, saying the

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Speaker 2: film made it easy for readers of the book to

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Speaker 2: misunderstand what it was about, and the misunderstand will pursue

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Speaker 2: me till I die. I should not have written the

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Speaker 2: book because of this danger of misinterpretation.

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Speaker 1: Uh famously misinterpreted by John Bottom, who is a big

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Speaker 1: fan of all the drugs man dressed like them on stage.

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Speaker 1: Boie did too, but I think he, I think he

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Speaker 1: understood that dressing like them and acting like them were

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Speaker 1: two very different things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, distinction lost on Bottom. Cooper also pissed off Wendy

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Speaker 2: carlos Man. Hard guy to work with, hard guy to

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Speaker 2: work out.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's yeah, that's my tremendous that's my ice

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Speaker 1: cold film take for this episode your Galaxy brain film

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Speaker 1: takes Stanley Kubrick hard to work, moving right along.

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Speaker 2: Roald Dahl felt the movie version of Charlie and Chocolate

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Speaker 2: Factory was quote crummy, and thought Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka

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Speaker 2: was pretentious and bouncy.

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Speaker 1: That's not really that sounds like a slur. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: sounds like, yeah, I don't know racial somehow, just like

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a homophobic slur.

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Speaker 2: Oh that tracks, and felt director Mel Stewart had no

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Speaker 2: talent or flare. No other Wonka movies were made while

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Speaker 2: he lived. You, Rold Doll, how dare you say that

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Speaker 2: about Gene Wilder's performance. Let's be real, that's why he's

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Speaker 2: so good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I watched the office scene like daily, the.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's so upsetting me nothing, and then just and

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Speaker 1: then later like just the tenderness's voice when he so

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Speaker 1: shines a good deed in the warry world, when the

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Speaker 1: tenderness in his voice when he just goes Charlie, it's

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Speaker 1: so good. It's upsetting. It's too upsetting to me. It's

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Speaker 1: like that anger. I watched that movie. That movie.

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Speaker 2: We should, now, I don't know, we should. Oh that's

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Speaker 2: I watched that movie for me a lot, me too.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because you're a candy door. All right, put

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Speaker 2: it a bit in that. We'll get back to it. P. L.

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Speaker 2: Travers famously hated the Disney version of Mary Poppins so

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Speaker 2: much that she wept at the premiere and forbade the

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Speaker 2: company from remaking any of her other books. And you folks,

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Speaker 2: you may remember Jesus ten years ago at this point,

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Speaker 2: saving mister Banks and Disney began to work on a

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Speaker 2: theatrical production of Mary Poppins in the nineties, and she relented.

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Speaker 2: She gave them consent on the condition that no one

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Speaker 2: associated with the film version be involved. Savage Forrest Gump

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Speaker 2: Winston Groom, the man who wrote that book, was so

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Speaker 2: pissed that he got screwed out of points on the

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Speaker 2: back end from that movie adaptation or mentions in the

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Speaker 2: Oscar acceptance speeches which.

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Speaker 1: I get won six mentioned the nun I believe, don't

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Speaker 1: get greedy. Winston. He wrote a sequel book which I

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Speaker 1: know nothing about. What is it? Called A Good Day

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Speaker 1: to Forrest Gump? Forrest Gump harder Forrest Gump, forrests actually

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Speaker 1: Forrest Gump back in the habit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, opens with the line, don't ever let nobody make

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Speaker 2: a movie of your life story. Whether they get it

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Speaker 2: right or wrong, it don't matter. Ah and all right, jesus,

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Speaker 2: cool it. No, I don't want to know this about

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Speaker 2: cool Hand Luke. Don Pierce wrote the book Cool Hand Luke,

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Speaker 2: inspired by the two years he spent on a prison

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Speaker 2: road gang. He was supposed to write the screenplay, but

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Speaker 2: the studio gave it to a more experienced writer for polishing.

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Speaker 2: They did a lousy job, and I disliked it intensely,

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Speaker 2: he told the Telegraph Boy. Authors man, they do not

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Speaker 2: mince words. He thought the famous line what we have

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Speaker 2: here is a failure to communicate, which I believe is

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Speaker 2: firmly installed on the AFI top quotes one hundred list

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Speaker 2: A stupid line.

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Speaker 1: That's what he called it. You gotta do it like

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Speaker 1: like like the foreman.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I can't do it. Here is failure,

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Speaker 2: failure to community communicate. See some men you just can't reach.

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Speaker 1: So you get what we had here last week, which

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Speaker 1: is the way he wants it, where he gets it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like it. Anymore than you man. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know how I know that whole thing is from

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Speaker 1: the Guns n' Roses song Civil War. It starts with

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Speaker 1: that more on them later, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: He even disliked Paul Newman because the guy was so

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Speaker 2: cute looking. He was too scrawny. He wouldn't have lasted

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Speaker 2: five minutes on the road. Pierce got a small part

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Speaker 2: in the movie and talked to Newman on the set

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Speaker 2: and saying he even asked me to dinner, then canceled

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Speaker 2: when his pr people realized he didn't need to be

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Speaker 2: seen eating with an X con. He continued, I didn't

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Speaker 2: like the guy. I didn't like that whole Hollywood crowd.

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Speaker 2: I was never made welcome, and at one point he

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Speaker 2: got so upset with the film that he actually punched

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Speaker 2: someone on the set, which I don't know, dude, there's

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Speaker 2: some tough dudes on the on that set, but I

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Speaker 2: don't think you George Kennedy, you murder you yep. Ken

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Speaker 2: Kesey famously pissed at one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest

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Speaker 2: that book takes place from the perspective of chief. It's

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Speaker 2: all narrated from his point of view and obviously in

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Speaker 2: the movie he is mute and not a point of

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Speaker 2: view character. Brett Easton Ellis, American psycho, should have been made.

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Speaker 2: I disagree with him, well, I mean I would agree

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Speaker 2: with him only inasmuch that Brett Easton Ellis should not

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Speaker 2: be famous because he's a piece of not that great

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Speaker 2: of a writer. E. B. White thought that Charlotte's Web

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Speaker 2: cartoon from nineteen seventy three was a travesty. Truman Capoti

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Speaker 2: hated Breakfast to Tiffany's spent the rest of his life

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Speaker 2: trashing it because he thought that Marilyn Monroe was the

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Speaker 2: only woman fit to play Holly go lightly and weird.

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Speaker 1: Place to end up here. The author of I Know

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Speaker 1: What You Did Last sume we get through all these

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Speaker 1: iconic works of literature to land on I Know What

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Speaker 1: You Did Last Summer, Lois Duncan. Oh. I shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: made fun of her, That's sad. She based her novel

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Speaker 1: partially on the murder of her eighteen year old daughter

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Speaker 1: and was deeply offended by the slasherization of the movie

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Speaker 1: and its sequel. I think there's like five of them now.

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Speaker 1: This poor woman is getting checks based on the murder

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Speaker 1: of her daughter.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh buddy, Alan Moore, who has written

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Speaker 2: some of the most important capital iye graphic novels of

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. Watchman was his with a guy named

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Speaker 2: Dave Gibbons, and they explicitly worked on that with the

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Speaker 2: aim of showing what comics could do that other mediums couldn't,

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Speaker 2: between all the visual information contained in the frame and

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Speaker 2: the thought bubbles, and like, actually, I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: thought bubbles in that anyway. He was like, I want

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Speaker 2: to show what comics can do as a medium that

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Speaker 2: no other medium can do. So the fact that it

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Speaker 2: was adapted into a movie is hilarious to me. He

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Speaker 2: has disowned every adaptation and Viva Vendetta he called a

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Speaker 2: bush era parable by people too timid to set a

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Speaker 2: political satire in their own country. Fair and that League

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Speaker 2: of Extraordinary Gentleman movie he's also based on nol Moore

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Speaker 2: thing and a movie so bad Sean Connery left the

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Speaker 2: business after making it.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was after finding Forrester.

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Speaker 2: No no leaving Extraordinary Gentleman and it was, yeah, famously

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Speaker 2: so bad. He never didn't. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if that was he said. He said as much, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was his last movie.

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Speaker 1: Now onto a segment related to call director Wolfgang Peterson. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Director Wolfgang Peterson defends his film adaptation of Michael Ende's book.

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Speaker 1: Peterson claims that the script was quote very faithful to

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Speaker 1: the book and that Michael Ende was a control freek

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Speaker 1: who let fame go to his head.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Peterson said that he was treated like Jesus Christ in Germany,

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Speaker 1: which is quite a thing to say about an author.

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Speaker 1: He also said that the author didn't understand movie adaptations,

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Speaker 1: and you know, louies aren't books. Story was sacred to him,

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Speaker 1: Peterson said, And you cannot change that. So while I

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Speaker 1: was trying to work with him on the script, it

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Speaker 1: was difficult to make any changes. If I needed to

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Speaker 1: cut something out. He wouldn't understand that. There were a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that at the time we just could

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Speaker 1: not yet do technically. Maybe today it would be different.

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Speaker 1: The bottom line is he could not really understand the

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Speaker 1: process of making a two hour movie from his big

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Speaker 1: and very very rich book. He didn't understand it and

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Speaker 1: didn't want to understand it, which is all fair points. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that the author doesn't like the really beloved

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Speaker 1: adaptation of his book, But maybe he likes the checks.

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Speaker 1: Do you think you got points on? It was that

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Speaker 1: part of the deal back then. I almost I gotta

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Speaker 1: wonder if if you sue the studio that's making your movie,

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Speaker 1: I almostly apparently surrender some kind of Yeah. I don't know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's fair. Let's talk about director Wolfgang Peterson for a moment.

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Speaker 1: He's making his second appearance on TMI. He would later

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Speaker 1: go on to direct my beloved large plane movie, Air

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Speaker 1: Force War, in addition to Outbreak Troy with Brad Pitt

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Speaker 1: and the two thousand and six Remakeup but Besign Adventure.

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Speaker 1: So this is really, as far as I know, his

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Speaker 1: only real foray into the children's film Realm. But in

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Speaker 1: the early eighties he was essentially Germany's answer to Steven Spielberg.

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Speaker 1: Remember this comparison, because we'll come back to it. He

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Speaker 1: just broke them through with nineteen eighty one's Doss Bout,

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Speaker 1: the World War Two drama set aboard a German U boat,

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Speaker 1: which earned him an Oscar nomination, And he'd spent three

431
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: years painstakingly recreating this German submarine and immersing himself in

432
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: this dark and gritty story, so he was ready for

433
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: something a little different, although I would argue that he

434
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: brought this same dark and gritty sensibility to this children's movie.

435
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: He later told Entertainment Weekly for their truly incredible Never

436
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: Ending Story oral history from twenty nineteen, Doss Boot was

437
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: a tough, tough movie to make. From the story point

438
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: of view. It was very dark and emotional material. My

439
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: son at the time was around ten years old, so

440
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: he didn't really care for Doss Boot very much. As

441
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: a father, I wanted to do something that my son

442
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: would really be interested in and that he could be

443
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: proud of. And that's when he got a call from

444
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: another German director, a guy named Helmet didel And this guy,

445
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: Helmet was the original director of The Never Ending Story,

446
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: but he was known for small scale dramas and comedies,

447
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: and once they started the ball rolling on the complex

448
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: practical effects and puppets and miniatures for this movie, he

449
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: found himself completely overwhelmed and basically resigned. He called Wolfgang

450
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: Peterson and more or less begged him to take it over.

451
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: Since Technical Tour Deforce Epics for sort of Peterson's whole

452
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: deal after making the Submarine movie so Wolfgang hopped into

453
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: the director's chair and proceeded to make a living hell

454
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: for his actors. I'm only sort of kidding. I compared

455
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: to Miss Spielberg a moment ago, but a more apt

456
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: comparison might have been Stanley Kubrick, a director who was

457
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: famous for pushing his actors to the brink of sanity

458
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: by demanding take after take after take. Your average director

459
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: would ask for five, maybe ten takes of a given scene.

460
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: Peterson was famous for going for forty takes basically every

461
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: scene in this movie. Wasn't Shelley Duvall going down the

462
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: staircase like one hundred and thirty in The Shining? Yeah,

463
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, I mean, wasn't she reduced to tears?

464
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody on The Shining was reduced to tears? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

465
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if Peterson reduced people on the set

466
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: of a never running story to tears, but there were

467
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: some injuries. We'll get to that later. So he asked

468
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: for dozens and dozens of takes and basically every scene.

469
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: And partially this might have been a result of Peterson's

470
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: very limited English at that time and the resulting language barriers,

471
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: but he was also kind of a perfectionist, and these

472
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: long arduous days caused the budget of the film to

473
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: inflate considerably to twenty seven million or seventy six million

474
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: in today's dollars, making it the most expensive film to

475
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: be made outside of the United States to the Soviet

476
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: Union at that time, and amusingly, the previous record was

477
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: also held by Peterson for dos Boot, so he broke

478
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: his own record. Actor Noah Hathaway, who played a tray

479
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: you the Warrior Child, gave an interview in the News

480
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: Tribune in twenty fifteen in which he claimed that the

481
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: shoot was originally slated for three months, and instead because

482
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: of all these retakes, it stretched to a full year.

483
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: The shoot quadrupled in length and Halfaway says that two

484
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: of the scenes in the movie are tax death in

485
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: the Swamp of Sadness and the introduction of the giant turtle.

486
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: Morla took two months to shoot.

487
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 2: That's a long time. I watch a horse drown and

488
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 2: I know from horse drownings. Alright, stares out the window

489
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: with your Scotch oh as you meditate on that, We'll

490
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: be right back with more.

491
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:59,239
Speaker 1: Too much information after these messages, this brings us to

492
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: a Tray You, or more appropriately, the young man who

493
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: played him, Noah Hathaway, here in a reputation as a

494
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: bit of a diva on the set, or at least

495
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: by one account. Special effects director Brian Johnson gave an

496
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: interview to sci Fi Now where he described Noah Hathaway

497
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: as quote, a bit of a pain in the urs. Frankly,

498
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: it was very difficult for Wolfgang to get anything out

499
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: of him. But perhaps he's being a little harsh considering

500
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: the kid nearly died several times on the set. The

501
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: whole process of making this movie was a nightmare for

502
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: this poor Noah Hathaway kid. He was one of apparently

503
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: fifty thousand Hope folks who tried out for the role

504
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: of a Tray You, and he wound up auditioning at

505
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: least ten times. That's insane. After yeah, that's it. Well,

506
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: I guess because you originally cast by the original director

507
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: and then once the director left and Wolfgang Peterson stepped

508
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: in and he had to start the process all over again.

509
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: So that was part of the problem. But Noah Hathaway

510
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: eventually got the gig, later citing his half Native American

511
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: heritage as a crucial factor in giving him a certain

512
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: look that producers were looking for to play the warrior child.

513
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: The name A tray You, by the way, has several

514
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: different origin stories. In A Never Ending Story novel, it's

515
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: revealed that a Trayu means son of all, because he

516
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: was an orphan and raised by all the members of

517
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: his village. But it's also possible that a tray You

518
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: was derived from the ancient Greek are treyus, meaning fearless,

519
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: or an ancient Sanskrit word for great warrior.

520
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: It's all ancient Sanskrit, right, All these all these, all

521
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: these fantasy terms are stolen from Sanskrit.

522
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, very fitting for this child warrior. Initially, Noah Hathaway,

523
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: prior to getting cast in A Never Ending Story, was

524
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: supposed to appear in a Broadway production of Chaplain starring

525
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: Gene Kelly and Anne Margaret, but he opted to Never

526
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Ending Story instead.

527
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: It's a mistake, kid spending the year in a Buckskin

528
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: onesie instead of tapping toes with Gene Kelly.

529
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: You'll never work in this town again. I mean to

530
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: be real though me.

531
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: Yes, it turned out Broadway it turned out well for him,

532
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: But in the original novel Tray You is a member

533
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: of the green.

534
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: Skin race, which, as the name suggests, meaning said he

535
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: is green, and the makeup team for the film adaptation

536
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: tried to keep this character trait and actually painted Noah

537
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: Hathaway in green paint for some early scenes. However, the

538
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: effect did not look good on camera and this whole

539
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: idea was abandoned. Hathaway said, quote, it wasn't believable. I

540
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: look like fun guy. They also cut the scene where

541
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: he does in an easy being green with Kermit. It

542
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: just felt forced. But I guess they thought he was

543
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: a little too pale, so they stuck him in a

544
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: tanning booth for a couple of weeks to make it

545
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: more believable that this kid, like you know, lived by

546
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: his wits in the forest. But there is one element

547
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: of pre production that is way less relaxing than kicking

548
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: back at a salon. While learning to ride a horse,

549
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: Noah Hathaway was apparently thrown off and then kicked by

550
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: the animal, and some sources say the horse actually fell

551
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: on him and as a result, this poor kid spent

552
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: a month in traction, and producer seriously wondered if he

553
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: would be healed in time to play a tray you.

554
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: To this day, he has titanium screws in his spine

555
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: and apparently continues to deal with painful back issues. I

556
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: wonder if there was a settlement just saying thankfully, I

557
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: guess for Noah. A bunch of other issues slowed down

558
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: the production, namely trying to figure out ways to make

559
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: it look like you're drowning a horse on screen without

560
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: actually driving a horse, which meant that he was able

561
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: to recuperate in time to participate in filming, only to

562
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: be seriously injured again. There's a scene when he fights

563
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: the wolf like beast Gomork, which was actually a robotic puppet.

564
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: This robot malfunctioned during the scene, and I guess it

565
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: went haywire and one of its claws slashed the young

566
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 1: actor's face right beside his eye and nearly blinded him.

567
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: It's alive. It's so rare, seriously, and then this robotic

568
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: puppet fell on him, and it was so heavy when

569
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: it landed on him that he knocked the wind out

570
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: of him and injured him pretty badly. They only got

571
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: one shot with this robotic puppet doing this because he

572
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: was so badly injured. That's the shot that you see

573
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: in the final movie, because that was the only one

574
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: I could get.

575
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: I'd just like to imagine going back to Kubrick that

576
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: he's like acting alongside this wolf and all of a

577
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: sudden it starts talking in the howl voice.

578
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I can't do that. A tray you, I'm

579
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: afraid I can't allow you to do that. Uh ah.

580
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: While we're on the topic of injuries, I just want

581
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: to shout out two of my favorite SFX injuries of

582
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: all time, which is surely a subcategory.

583
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: It's a list of WHI I like to keep handy.

584
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: Margaret Hamilton, who played the Wicked Witch and Wizard of Oz,

585
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: during her Cloud of Smoke disappearing her like Ninja Vanish scene,

586
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: ended up with third degree burns on her hands and

587
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: second degree burns on her face. After that, and you said,

588
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: that's the take they used, Yeah, that's.

589
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: The take they used in the because I think the

590
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: I think that the makeup that she was in, the

591
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: green you know makeup or whatever, well, it was made

592
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: of copper, which I think I should probably check this.

593
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: But with them, because they also Buddy Ebsen, they painted

594
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: him in like silver and he wasn't on a respirator

595
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: or in an oxygen tent.

596
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, the original tin man Buddy Ebsen, who later

597
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: became very famous as Jed Klampan on The Beverly Hillbillies.

598
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: They painted him silver with basically like silver dust, and

599
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: he I think the line that he said was he

600
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: went to breathe and nothing happened. He breathed in the

601
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: dust and it just coated his lungs, and yeah, nearly

602
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: killed him. I don't know. He had to quit the movie. Yeah,

603
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: and they got Ray Bolger, I think Ray Bolger or

604
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: I think it was Ray Boulger. And and they obviously

605
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: changed the makeup compound quite a bit. I wonder how

606
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: pisted he was if they didn't wait for him, Like,

607
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: not only am I in the hospital, but I lost

608
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: this huge role.

609
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: They didn't wait for Judy Garland to sleep. You think

610
00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: they're gonna wait for him, You're no Judy kid, Buddy,

611
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: get back in the tent. My favorite one from Jurassic

612
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: is from Jurassic Park because it is just such a

613
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: I don't know this one. Oh yeah, So Stan Winston

614
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: was the effects studio that did the animatronics for that movie.

615
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: Just some of the all time animatronics work. And a

616
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: guy named Alan Scott was burning the midnight oil at

617
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers studio gluing foam rubber to the skin to

618
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: the t rex. I actually spent a while trying to

619
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: find pictures of that thing without its skin on. I

620
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: wasn't able to find any because imagine how horrifying that

621
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: would look, like a terminator t rex that's like twenty

622
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: feet tall. Yeah, And so he's inside the thing's mouth

623
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: gluing its roof of its mouth onto the mechanical armature.

624
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: And because its jaws defaulted to closed when the power

625
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: was off, they had to do this while it was

626
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: basically plugged in and control it to put the jaws

627
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: open as wide as possible so he could be in there.

628
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: And he said to the guy he give this interview

629
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: about it. He said to the guy who was there,

630
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: was like, put that switch on and make sure no

631
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: one can trip over it or accidentally hit it, because

632
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: if it closes on me, that will be bad. And

633
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: then someone just shut the whole studio power off. The

634
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: thing starts to cause these are like industrial hydraulics.

635
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: These things are built out of just starts closing on him.

636
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: While he's in there, he talks about curlings into a

637
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: smaller and smaller ball so his limbs or head didn't

638
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: get caught in that thing. And he lowers, so the

639
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: jaws close and the head lowers down, and I guess

640
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of the other crew guys had to come

641
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: and pry him out of it. Huh. Can you imagine that?

642
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: Probably the last human to be almost eaten by a tea? Really?

643
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: When I think about that, Wow, I showed you there.

644
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: I was on the set for Jurassic Park two. I

645
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: think I showed you pictures of this. They had off

646
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: to the side. Maybe it was the I aim t

647
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: rex head For all I know, this dinosaur head pride

648
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: open and they just used it for craft services. In

649
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: this t rex's mouth, they just had all these styrofoam

650
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: coffee cups lined up, just held in place by all

651
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: the teeth. That's great.

652
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: Umm, yeah, man, God love it. It's a rough industry. Yeah, yes,

653
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: it is. His poor kid, he was like tens poor

654
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: Noah Hathaway. Uh.

655
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: Given all of his physical anguish, at least he has

656
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: the satisfaction of seeing his once in a lifetime performance

657
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: up on the big screen right raw. During a panel

658
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: at Dragon Con in twenty ten, Noah Hathaway claimed that

659
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: virtually none of his lines in the film are his

660
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: own voice, despite the fact that he did record the

661
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: lines himself. He claims that another actor was brought in

662
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: to dub over his lines and that was what we

663
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: hear in the finished film. The voice actor used for

664
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: this was apparently uncredited. I was unable to find any

665
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: information on this person. You can hear Noah's actual voice

666
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: in a making of special that was released in nineteen

667
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: eighty three that you can find on YouTube. You can

668
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: tell that they are slightly different. But I guess dubbing

669
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: was pretty common in this movie because much of the

670
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: filming took place in Germany. Many of the actors were German,

671
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: and they spoke their lines in their native language, only

672
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: to have them dubbed into English and post, Oh yeah,

673
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: this is super common.

674
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know about it in Germany, but I remember

675
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: the famous thing about all the Spaghetti Westerns is that

676
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: all the different actors were just speaking in their native language.

677
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: So you've got guys talking English, Spanish, Italian. So some

678
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: of there's scenes where some people have no idea what

679
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: the other one is saying. Then they just dub it

680
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: over in post and I think they did that up

681
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: into the seventies with some of the Dario Argento horror stuff,

682
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: because those were like like David Hemings is in one

683
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 2: of those deep bred so it's like they had English

684
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: speaking actors on them, but they were shot in Italy,

685
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: and I think the Italian actors were just speaking in

686
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: Italian that whole time. Such a fun way to make movies,

687
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: Daria Argento is that.

688
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: Father wow yep yep uh. The actor who played the

689
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: night Hob Tilo Pruckner, spoke most of his dialogue in

690
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: German and had it dubbed over, And the same is

691
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: true for the rock Biter. You go back and watch

692
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: the movie, you can see that their mouths are moving

693
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: and saying something completely difficult. It's actually coming out creepier

694
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: in German. Can you imagine the original the original dubs

695
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: of that. I watched a German dub, but not the

696
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: whole thing of the Wicked Witch of the West doing

697
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: the ill I'll get you my pretty uh scary, it's

698
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: really really scary.

699
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's like fascist speeches or something interesting.

700
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: Point the voice of the Rock, Bier Falcor, the Luck Dragon,

701
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: and Gomork were all dubbed by the same American voiceover actor,

702
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: Alan Hoppenheimer, who's a veteran of the Smurfs, he Man

703
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: and Transformers. I know you love your voiceover actor, I

704
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: sure do. But this all brings us to the horse,

705
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: se Man. We've been delaying the inevitable. It's time to

706
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: discuss it. Good God, the moment when a tray's beloved

707
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: horse sinks in the swamp of eternal sadness, and now

708
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: we're about to sink in this swamp of eternal sadness too. Well,

709
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: let's get this out of the way. The horse didn't die.

710
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: That was like a persistent urban legend that I remember

711
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: hearing growing up, you know, pre Snopes, pre Internet days.

712
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: It was just always like, oh, you know, they actually

713
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: killed a horse on that movie.

714
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: But no, folks, this was not Michael Simono's Days of

715
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: Heaven where they actually blew up a horse, nor was

716
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 2: it the Italian horror film Cannibal Holocaust, in which they

717
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 2: kill a turtle. They did, however, almost drown the horse

718
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 2: in a big sea of mud.

719
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: That's an unkind reading of the situation and ungenerous. So

720
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: but yes, there's a horse. There is mud, it is

721
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: up to its neck. Yes, but but go on. Yeah, actually,

722
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: I guess it's not really that because.

723
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: They make horses swim in Westerns all the time, right,

724
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: They're like usually throw like riding horses into the water

725
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 2: to get to the outlaws and such. Anyway, horses are

726
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: not known for their love of chest deep mud, and

727
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 2: so two trainers spent seven weeks teaching one of the

728
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: two horses playing attacks to stand still on a hydraulic

729
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: platform in the swamp with mud up to his chin

730
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: without trying to swim or run away, nearly two months

731
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: teaching a horse to defy all of its natural instincts

732
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 2: of self preservation, a scene they initially only budgeted two

733
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: weeks of shooting for. Can you imagine being the other

734
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: horse and just watching from the sides, being like, boy,

735
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 2: I'm sure glad I'm not Jimmy today. No, Hathaway didn't

736
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: have it much better. According to some sources, his leg

737
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: got caught on that hydraulic elevator and he was dragged

738
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: underwater during one of these shoots, and by the time

739
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: he pulled it up, he had lost consciousness, just super

740
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 2: bad for you.

741
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: You don't want that.

742
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: You want to be conscious, but uh that you didn't

743
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: weren't able to verify that. But no horses were harmed

744
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: other than psychologically and emotionally. And Noah told this to

745
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: Entertainment Weekly, UH for their oral history on the film,

746
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: he said, the real horse never really died. They were

747
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: more careful with that horse than they were with me.

748
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: I got hurt a hell of a lot more. The

749
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 2: horse was definitely looked after, well, which is adorable. We

750
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: like care Yeah, I guess it's not. I just like

751
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: the horse, being like the horse, like leading the horse off,

752
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: like great day of shooting. Yeah, yeah, you were great.

753
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: You're better than beautiful.

754
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: Cage. He come too, you, I'm going to my trailer,

755
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: called me when he wakes up.

756
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: The horse did actually live happily ever after. Noah Hathaway

757
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: said he was given the horse at the end of filming,

758
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: along with the saddle that he used in the film

759
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: for it. But due to the cost of transportation, quarantine,

760
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: and sterilization, they mean germs, right, they didn't have to

761
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: sterilize the horse, I would assume, so yeah, okay, anyway,

762
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: it costs too much and the horse was left behind

763
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: in Germany, where it lived happily for another twenty years.

764
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: You can't just give somebody a horse that's not something

765
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: like that's a gift that registers as hostile. All the stuff,

766
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: all the money, all the all the housing for it

767
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: like that, that's no longer a gift, that's a responsibility.

768
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: Here's an obligation. Yeah, I mean maybe. I mean, kid

769
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: looks like a natural on all these horses. Considering you

770
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: to learn how to ride for this movie, like that's

771
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: pretty insane. It looks amazing.

772
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: And he says that he loves doing all these conventions

773
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: for The Never Ending Story because he feels responsible for

774
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: traumatizing generations of kids with that scene.

775
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: Yep, sure, he says. He hopes it's therapeutic for them

776
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: to see him.

777
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: In real life, Noah has acted sporadically, but he is

778
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: now a martial arts teacher and tattoo artist in Las Vegas.

779
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 2: One thing you can't get from him is a tattoo

780
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: of the urn talisman. Am I saying that right, Jordan?

781
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: I think so. It's on the cover of The Never

782
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: Ending Story Book. It's the necklace that a Trayu wears

783
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: in the movie. It's kind of the the cool magic

784
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: prop from the movie.

785
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: And so once people found out that he was the

786
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: kid who played a tray you was doing tattoos, he

787
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: got flooded with requests to do tattoos of that, which

788
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: he says is flattering. But no, he would not do

789
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 2: that anymore anyway. Moving on, Jordan, talk to us about

790
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: the child Like Empress.

791
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: Yes, she's actually known as the Childlike Empress. I'm not

792
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: editorializing there. I first started coming across that in articles

793
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: and thought, oh, that's weird, but no, that's actually like

794
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: her full title. My favorite fact about this horse drowning

795
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: scene is that was apparently the first day on the

796
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: set for the little girl who played the childlike Empress. Whah, yes,

797
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: I know, well I can't. I'm making it heavy. I'm

798
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: making it in the movies, my first big role. It's

799
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: probably worth adding right here than it was her last

800
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: big role. Oh manby, why isn't your first crying? Yes? Yeah.

801
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson said that while they were shooting this scene,

802
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: there was basically not a dry eye on the set,

803
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: so so wow, welcome to show business. She was cast

804
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: late in the production and Wolfgang Peterson had invited her

805
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: down to check things out on the set and surprise.

806
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: Tammy Stronach is the name of the actress who played

807
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: the Empress, and she had been attending theater classes in

808
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: San Francisco playing the part of Piglet in an adaptation

809
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: of Witty the Pooh, which I love. When she was

810
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: asked to audition for this role, I guess her acting

811
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: teacher was friends with the production executive and the talent

812
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: scout for this movie. Tammy initially believed that she was

813
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: auditioning for a little play and she had no idea

814
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: that it was for a major motion picture, and she

815
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: auditioned alongside Heather O'Rourke the little girl from Poltergeist, which

816
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: I think is adorable. Can totally see her doing a

817
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: good job as the Empress also. But Tammy won out

818
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: and she was cast I guess two weeks before filming began,

819
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: and if her first day on the set was any

820
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: indication she was really thrown into the deep end. Here

821
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: her scene at the end of the movie, when the

822
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: evil force known as the Nothing is threatening to destroy

823
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: the land of Fantasia, she is just absolutely tremendous. She's like,

824
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, close up shot at the camera. You know, bastion,

825
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: save us, like this absolutely harrowing scene. She's so good.

826
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: She later described Wolfgang Peterson getting down on his haunches

827
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: so we could talk to her at eye level to

828
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: give her acting notes, and he was just saying, hey,

829
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: it's remember it's the end of the world. Nothing will

830
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: be left. Look at me. I need you to understand.

831
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: Look at me, Look at me in the eyes, Tommy,

832
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: nothing could be left. It's a heavy thing to lay

833
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: in a kid. She was like eleven, good God, but

834
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: she pulled off this incredibly complex scene despite her age

835
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: and also another hindrance dentures the second appearance of child

836
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: dentures on TMI. The Olsen twin babies were forced to

837
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: wear baby dentures on the set of Full House and

838
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: Now poor Tammy when she was playing the childlike Empress.

839
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: She'd lost two of her upper front teeth shortly before

840
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: filming began, so she had to wear dentures to cover

841
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: up the gaps, and unfortunately, the false teeth impacted her

842
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: ability to speak and caused her to speak with a

843
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: prominent lisp, which required a great deal of time and

844
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: diction to overcome. So not only is she doing this

845
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: incredibly emotionally complex scene. She's trying to overcome these weird

846
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: fake teeth in her mouth. So good lord, very talented.

847
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: There's an incredible interview that she gave to the Beacon

848
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: Reader in twenty fourteen where she shares the notebook that

849
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: she kept during the Never Ending Shoot and her character

850
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: notes are as follows, and there's a picture of this notebook.

851
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: It's in her childlike handwriting. Her notes for the Empress

852
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: are as follows. Dignity in charge, wise, understanding, magical, very sick,

853
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: very tired, very old parenthesies three I did years, very empress,

854
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: very otherworldly, very goddess like. It's my tender bio.

855
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: Back in the day, it was like that, said Rickles thing, Well,

856
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: it's late and I'm full, and I'm sick of all

857
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: you people.

858
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: Very sick and sick and tired. Jordan, tell us more

859
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: about Tammy. Yes, the Empress, who is not so childlike anymore,

860
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: is a remarkable lady. She was born in Iran, where

861
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: her father was an archaeologist. I think her mom was

862
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: an anthropologist, and her family fled the country during the

863
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: revolution in seventy nine, and The Never Ending Story was

864
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: her only feature film role for many years, in large

865
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: part to the disturbing reaction from her so called fans.

866
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: The family home was stocked, I guess people were camping

867
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: out on her law and literally she was inundated with

868
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: calls on her home phone and adults proposed to her

869
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: with engagement rings. She was eleven, may I remind you,

870
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 1: and the scripts that she relieved from Hollywood featured nude scenes.

871
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: So I look at people and I see nothing worth likings. So,

872
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: perhaps wisely, her parents declined to allow her to appear

873
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: in the Never Ending Story sequel, basically in an effort

874
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: to avoid the further trappings of child stardom. For years,

875
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: she pursued a career in dance, working as a dance

876
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: company director in Brooklyn, and it was recently announced that

877
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: she's appearing in a movie with Sean Aston, star of

878
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: another beloved eighties property, The Goonies, and Front of the

879
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: Program Christopher Lloyd. This is a movie called Man in

880
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: Which which looks tremendous. It has some of my favorite

881
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: British comedians, Jennifer Saunders of Absolutely Fabulous, Eddie Izzard and

882
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: Bill Bailey from never Mind the Buzzcocks. It looks really cool.

883
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see Real Pearlman. Yeah. Real Pearlman's

884
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: in it too. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay, so that's cool.

885
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: So I guess it's gonna be her first feature film

886
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: role since The never Ending Story oh forty years ago.

887
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: And Jim Henson's Creature Shop is doing the puppets. It's

888
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna be awesome. They have no plans to use CGI.

889
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: This cool sounds awesome. Wow. Yeah, No, I'm really excited

890
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: for it. I think it was announced in like twenty twenty.

891
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: I think they're I think, yeah, it was delayed. They

892
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: were hoping to have it out last year. This is

893
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: according to EW in twenty twenty. But there's one mystery

894
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: about The never Ending Story that's baffled fans for decades,

895
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: and that is the name of the Empress. You'll remember that.

896
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: In the climactic scene of the movie, Bastion, the boy

897
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: he's been reading the never Ending Story book, learns that

898
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: he must give the childlike Empress a new name and

899
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: call it out to her in order to save the

900
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: world of Fantasia by being houred by the Nothing. And

901
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: there's the very gripping scene when Bastian dramatically runs to

902
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: the window and shouts into the storm an incomprehensible. I

903
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: have no idea gold weight bum that dump that in. Yeah,

904
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: so there's been a great deal of debate over the

905
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: name Bastian gave the childlike Empress, but the original novel

906
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: reveals the name to be Moonchild, and if you visit

907
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: the scene and know how to read lips, it does

908
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: seem to fit what he's shouting. So Moonchild is the

909
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: name that Bastian gave the Empress. As to why it

910
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: was obscured in the first place, no idea, adding mystique

911
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: is my best guess. There you go.

912
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: Well, that brings us to Bastion. You don't like not

913
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 2: my favorite character?

914
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: No, No, I mean he's kind of a whimp, So

915
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: maybe I just identified with them too much.

916
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, spend a lot of time in dumpsters,

917
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: you did. Jordan has been literally sucking on a lemon

918
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: throughout this podcast, and yeah.

919
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: Still sweeter than you. Ah ah.

920
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: Anyway, Bastion, Jordan's enemy played by a kid named Barrett Oliver,

921
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 2: who you said beat out some two hundred kids, which

922
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: contrasts this at the alleged fifty thousand that knoweth Hathaway.

923
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: I was up again switch That is a lopsided ratio.

924
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, either though Hathaways lying or not, many kids wanted

925
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: to play I mean great to Bash's entire role consists

926
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: of getting thrown into a dumpster then hiding in an attic.

927
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 1: So maybe it just wasn't that interesting of a role

928
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: as opposed to a trayu who's riding horses and fighting

929
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: lest Dragen. Yeah exactly, and you know, I mean hindsight

930
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: though Oliver didn't spend a month in traction right, yes,

931
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: or watch a horse drown for two months, interestingly, just

932
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: before flying to Germany to film The Never Ending Story.

933
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: The kids cast is the star of Frankenweeny, which is

934
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: a twenty nine minute live action short directed by a

935
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: young Tim Burton, which was shelved for years after Disney

936
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: fired him amid accusations that he was wasting company resources

937
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: on this featurette that wasn't suitable for kids. Welcome to

938
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: Tim Burton, everybody.

939
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, once Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands,

940
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: all those blew up.

941
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: Franken Weeny came out in nineteen ninety two. Well, then

942
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: they remade it in I think twenty twelve. Yes, yes,

943
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: they And guess who's in franken weeniy Jordan.

944
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, Shelley Duval, that's right, Oh my god. Anyway,

945
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: Oliver does not do the convention circuit, unlike a Treyu

946
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: and the Empress. He now works as a specialist in

947
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 2: historic photographic print technology known as Woodbury type proto copy

948
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: machines from the mid eighteen hundreds. He's worked with the

949
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: Getty Conservation Institute and even published a book on this

950
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: from two thousand and seven. And you can catch him

951
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: in a short twenty twelve documentary entitled In the Usual

952
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: Manner for the Huntington Library's Civil War Photography Exhibit. So

953
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: I didn't have that on my bingo of this movie,

954
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: but good for him, man, I love we love a nerd.

955
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

956
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: back with more too much information in just a moment.

957
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: Special effects.

958
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 2: The SFX in the movie were handled by a guy

959
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 2: named Brian Johnson, who you remember from shotting on Noah

960
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: Hathaway earlier.

961
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: It was his effects that almost killed him like three times. Yeah,

962
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: yeah right, maybe no athlete wasn't any mood to be

963
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: nice to him. Hey, your robot almost cut my eye out,

964
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: that's true. He received the nineteen eighty Academy Award for

965
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: Best Visual Effects for Alien, which he shared with designer

966
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 1: hr Gieger and a few other guys, and he had, man,

967
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: everybody is just coming back to Kubrick from this episode.

968
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: He had previously built the miniatures for two thousand and

969
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: one A Space Odyssey Wow, and George Lucas offered him

970
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: the role of effects supervisor for the initial Star Wars.

971
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: He was unable to accept it, but he did work

972
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: on Empire Strikes Back and he picked up another Academy award,

973
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: a Special Achievement Award for that, which he shared with

974
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: the other guys from that film.

975
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, he was also originally in talks to do

976
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: a film for Italian filmmaker Rafaela di Laurentis of the

977
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: famous del Lorentis family, which we gather from around the timeline,

978
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: to be one of the Conan the Barbarian movies. I

979
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: think so, yeah, yeah, But that deal fell apart and

980
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: he picked Never Ending Story instead. Not just the sheer

981
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: number of miniatures and practicals that he had to do

982
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 2: in this film, the weather also conspired against him. This

983
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: was one of the hottest Germany had in twenty five years,

984
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 2: and it was so hot that one of the statues

985
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: of the Ivory Tower actually melted. Where on the other

986
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 2: days the crew were forced to shut down production because

987
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 2: the blue backgrounds for the matt work wouldn't work properly.

988
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: Is that because they were melting or because of like

989
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 2: heat waves on the side, I don't know.

990
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: I'm thinking like heat waves, Like you know when you

991
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: look at a road on a hot day and everything

992
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: looks kind of like, Yeah, I think it's that.

993
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: Johnson said that he built what he believes to be

994
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: the largest blue screen ever made at the time, ninety

995
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 2: five by thirty five feet good Loow.

996
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 1: Johnson was part of the team who created The Nothing,

997
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: and fans of the movie will recall that The Nothing

998
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: is an emptiness or despair fueled by the loss of

999
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: hopes and dreams, and New Yorkers will know it better

1000
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: as Midtown hell doing the Johnny Carson like golf swing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1001
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: Nothing for nothing leaves nothing. You gotta have something.

1002
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: And I'm not fronting, believe you me, doesn't he say

1003
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm not stuffing? At one point there I think.

1004
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: So for those who keeping track at home, that is

1005
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: our first Billy Preston reference of this episode of a series.

1006
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: Oh Man, but to the Nothing, because Billy Preston, sure

1007
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: is it nothing? In the novel, It's described as an

1008
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: invisible force. So the special effects coordinators had to figure

1009
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: out how to basically make this visual, and they landed

1010
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 1: on the rolling storm clouds as a way to indicate

1011
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: the Nothing's presence. And I'd always assumed that those terrifying clouds,

1012
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: which I honestly I still think of, you know, whenever

1013
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: see a storm out in the distance, I just thought

1014
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: it was old footage of approaching storm clouds that had

1015
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: been sped up and colorized. But apparently it's colored oil

1016
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: in water, which is pretty ingenious. Yeah. I started.

1017
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 2: I tried to look at what other things that's been

1018
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 2: done in I don't think the two thousand and one,

1019
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: like that whole trippy thing at the end was that.

1020
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 2: But I think do you remember that Darren Anofsky movie

1021
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: The Fountain, like sort of little Bit Jackman.

1022
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1023
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: I think the trippy space scenes in that were like

1024
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 2: similar oil and water. So it's also like a big

1025
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: live music psychedelic Joshua light show from the old Filmore's

1026
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 2: and all that. Yeah, Yeah, Moneray pop in the background

1027
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: has all the like pulsating blob stuff.

1028
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool, it is. I mean, it's such a

1029
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: neat little trick. Yeah. But the destruction caused by the

1030
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: nothing is pretty epic. Everything from trees and rocks to

1031
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: people just get sucked into the horizon line. It's like,

1032
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: really rewatching the scene. Fine, we're pretty horrifying. Yeah, And

1033
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: there's a scene where a tray U is literally blown

1034
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: sideways and he's hanging onto a tree. He's like a

1035
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: human flag. I just assume that they got some industrial

1036
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: strength jet turbine to blow the kids, just in keeping

1037
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: in line with complete disregard for this kid's life. But

1038
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: their method for achieving this effect was actually a lot

1039
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: more ingenious. They built a room on gimbals, which allowed

1040
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: the room to rotate and tip over, and in this

1041
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: room they built the set where a tray U was

1042
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: gonna get blown around by the nothing. They have all

1043
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: these rocks and dirt and trees, and when they shot

1044
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: the scene, they just tipped the room over so gravity

1045
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: would cause everything to just fly in one direction. But

1046
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: because they had the camera mounted in the room as well,

1047
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: the perspective stayed the same, so it just looked like

1048
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: this crazy wind was blowing everything away and Noah Hathaway

1049
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: was just hanging from this tree parallel to the ground.

1050
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: Really cool. Yeah, there's a making of documentary on YouTube.

1051
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: There's the original one from eighty three, and then they

1052
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,479
Speaker 1: made one for like a DVD special features that's also

1053
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: on YouTube, and you can see this being done. It's

1054
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: like really cool, very ingenious. Again, it's like the oil

1055
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: and water thing. It's like very effective. Nowhere near as

1056
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: difficult as I would have assumed. Oh, it's easy for

1057
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: me to say, I'm not I don't have the arm

1058
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: power to hang from a tree as this kid did.

1059
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: The one that I always remember from that that he's

1060
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: the same trick as Nightmare on Elm Street when Johnny

1061
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: Depp's character it's killed, he's like strapped up into the

1062
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 2: ceiling and they did it the same way. And I

1063
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: didn't bring this up earlier, But speaking of SFX injuries,

1064
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: they very bloody scene like insane fountains of blood which

1065
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: was obviously just red colored water, and the cinematographer Jacques

1066
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: Heitken explained that when they begin to dump water through

1067
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: the hole, there's a hole in the ceiling that the

1068
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: water comes out of. It hit the light and it electrified,

1069
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: and so the guy pouring it through the holes electrocuted.

1070
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: Oh, Hollywood, where dreams are made. It's like a very

1071
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: avoidable problem. You know, it could happen. Well, let's hope

1072
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't. They got deadlines to me. Electrocute the kid.

1073
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: I don't give it shit. Have you seen the dailies?

1074
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: I'm underwater on this picture? Oh man. But in the

1075
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: movie A Tray you is rescued from the nothing by Falcore,

1076
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 1: the luck Dragon. We have not talked about Fokhre enough.

1077
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: He's one of the crowning achievements of the special effects

1078
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: team in this movie. It was basically like designing an

1079
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: aircraft built by chief animatronics engineer j Just set me

1080
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: to Torah, who you have a factoid on? Oh? Yeah,

1081
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: you did SFX on Conan the Barbarian Man. What else

1082
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: do you do? Surely other? Oh? He worked on the

1083
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: sequel to this. Oh.

1084
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: He worked in one of my favorite gross, weird horror

1085
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: movies from Beyond, which is Folks, if you like wet puppets,

1086
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: and who doesn't just look up some of the effects

1087
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: for this movie. It is gross and weird and awesome.

1088
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: Sorry, So that is the guy. He's responsible for our

1089
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: beloved Falk. He's actually two models. The biggest is a

1090
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: forty three foot long motorized puppet framed out with airplane steel,

1091
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: topped off with six thousand plastic scales and pink fur

1092
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: I guess it was pink and white. The three foot

1093
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: head alone weighed more than two hundred pounds, and the

1094
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: body required at least fifteen people to manipulate at any

1095
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: given moment via strings. One was in charge of movements

1096
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: of the nose. Two other people were in charge of

1097
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: each eyebrow. Others were on the mouth. It was this

1098
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: incredibly complex puppet. I mean, it makes muppets look like,

1099
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, simple, and those only have two.

1100
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: I just remember how much of a pain in the

1101
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: ass the shark was from Jaws, and this thing was

1102
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 2: like literally twice that big.

1103
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. They were sinking it to a tape

1104
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: of pre recorded dialogue, so they had to make sure

1105
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: that the mouth matched the words, the body language and

1106
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: facial expression match the emotion. All these people. I mean

1107
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: it was a big, just choreographed operation, incredibly difficult, sounds

1108
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: like an absolute nightmare. But the rock Bier puppet was

1109
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: even more complicated. That took twenty five people to operate.

1110
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: Just absolutely incredible, and director Wolfgang Peterson really believes that

1111
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: these pactical effects played a huge role in the movie

1112
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: Stang Power. He said, quote the creatures were so real

1113
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: how they interacted with the actors. It wasn't just like

1114
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: they were standing in front of this green screen and pretending,

1115
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 1: which is true, which is something that just ten years

1116
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: later even you would not go through all the trouble

1117
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: of having these kinds of effects built. Really amazing. Given

1118
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: the complexity of the puppet, Fucore was not a beloved

1119
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: figure on the set, despite the fact that he's a

1120
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: beloved figure in my heart. Brian Johnson, the aforementioned special

1121
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: effects coordinators, said an interview with sci Fi Now that

1122
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: Falcore quote worked fine, but it didn't really do it

1123
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: for me. It was huge, and it was difficult moving

1124
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: him around, and we couldn't make him walk. That's true,

1125
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: I guess with all the u motorized parts of it,

1126
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: walking and wasn't really part of it. They just suspend

1127
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: it right now. It's a forty foot dragon. Noah Hathaway,

1128
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: who Lord knows went through more than his fair share

1129
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: of abuse on this film set, said that writing quote

1130
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: wasn't as glamorous as you might imagine. Sometimes it would

1131
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: overheat Jesus and it would start going out of control,

1132
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: probably once every twenty minutes. It ended up being like

1133
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: a bucking bronco. I just had to hold on for

1134
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: dear life from time to time. But it was fun.

1135
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: Considering the thing was suspended from twenty feet up in

1136
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: the air, it sounds like less than fun. What is

1137
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: it with these robots going haywire every twenty minutes?

1138
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm saying, I'm saying, well, I'm sorry, Noah.

1139
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: But you know, one person who really hated Falcore was

1140
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: unsurprisingly Never Ending Story author and Michael Ende. One of

1141
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: the many things that he disliked about the finished film

1142
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: was Falcore because he resembled a big golden Retriever instead

1143
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,959
Speaker 1: of the dragon that he'd originally written. And I guess

1144
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: this was directorial choice by Wolfgang Peters, and he wanted

1145
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: to make him resemble a dog because he felt the

1146
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: kids would respond more to dogs than dragons, which you know,

1147
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: was arguably correct. He's yeah guy, question the most beloved

1148
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: character in this movie. Yeah. And you know what, if

1149
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: you ever find yourself in Munich, you can meet Falcore

1150
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: and take him for a ride. I love this so much.

1151
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: The original Fucre puppet is on display at the Bavaria

1152
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: Film Studios, where visitors are invited to sit on his

1153
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: back for a photo op. And this is great. They

1154
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: even have a fan just off camera in front of

1155
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: him to get the full windblown effect for your pictures.

1156
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: It's so good, looks like he's flying. There's other things

1157
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: there from a never Ending Store. There's the aforementioned oracles.

1158
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: There's the rock Bier puppet and the racing snail. They're

1159
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: also there. And there are other full sets from the

1160
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: never Ending Story that you can walk through as well.

1161
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: And guess what, it gets better. There are sets from

1162
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson's large plane movie. Yes, Air Force one sets

1163
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: are there too. Stay tuned from when we'd tape an

1164
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: episode of this from the Bavaria studios. Oh, I would

1165
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: love to go. This is so funny to me, so

1166
01:03:58,080 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: deeply appropriate.

1167
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: The never Ending Story script did not have an end

1168
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: Uh Peterson in the production team because as we mentioned earlier,

1169
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: the shooting script is only the first half of the book,

1170
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 2: so Peterson the production team had to come up with

1171
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: how this movie was slated to end, and it was

1172
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: thus decided to have the scene where Bastion returns to

1173
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: the real world via Falcor and chases after the three bullies,

1174
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 2: chases them into a dumpster, mimicking the opening of the

1175
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: movie when he is I believe, thrown into a dumpster.

1176
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we call that a framing device.

1177
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 3: Would have ruled if they just like one of us

1178
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 3: went to film school, would have ruled, if they just

1179
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 3: like it was like one of the extremely gory like

1180
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones like dragon scenes, Like these kids just

1181
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 3: get butchered by an enormous dragon.

1182
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: I want them to know it was me.

1183
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: If yes, which author Michael Endy was not a fan

1184
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 2: of Too Bad. Yeah, Tuba sucks to him. It doesn't

1185
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: sleeping on large piles of money for fifty Yeah, he

1186
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 2: didn't get much.

1187
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: From this movie. But come on, dude, thirty billion or

1188
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: whatever movie like it was basically Harry Potter proto Harry Potter, Right.

1189
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: I just think it's so funny that Noah Hathaway was

1190
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: later in a movie called Troll where he plays a

1191
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: character his name is Harry Potter. What when was this

1192
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: pre Harry Potter of the book?

1193
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I found this on I was creeping on

1194
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 2: his IMDb. It's weird speaking of nothing in particular. Oh,

1195
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 2: Steven Spielberg, we brought up speak of Jaws.

1196
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: There it is.

1197
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 2: There's the connection, giant malfunctioning puppets. Steven Spielberg and Wolfgang

1198
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 2: Peterson have a cozy relationship. They apparently met when Spielberg

1199
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,919
Speaker 2: was filming Indiana Jones The First One, Raiders The Last

1200
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: Dark and he borrowed the sub replica from dos pot

1201
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 2: for the scene where the subsurfaces and Indie's still hanging

1202
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 2: onto it.

1203
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: Right. He doesn't like go under He doesn't go underwater

1204
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: with it. No.

1205
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, that's when they met, and they were also

1206
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 2: both up for oscars at the nineteen eighty three Academy Awards.

1207
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: Spielberger was there for et Peterson for Toss Boot. You know,

1208
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: I think this friendship is really pure.

1209
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 2: Peterson told MTV News that they spoke quite a bit

1210
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: on the phone during this period, and Spielberg apparently asked

1211
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 2: him for input on filming locations for what would become

1212
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 2: Schindler's list. As he was gearing up to release the

1213
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 2: first English release of Never Ending Story, Peterson asked Spielberg

1214
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 2: to take a look and give him some notes.

1215
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: He said.

1216
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 2: I told him that I'd like to show it to

1217
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: him because I had a feeling that for an American

1218
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: audience it was a bit slow. It has a very

1219
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 2: European feel to it, and I thought that he could

1220
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 2: give me some advice about edits I could make to it.

1221
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 2: He gave me some very good suggestions about where I

1222
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: could make a few little cuts here and there to

1223
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 2: get the pacing up a little bit to where it

1224
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: would suit American audiences better, which is yeah, man, all

1225
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 2: Europeans just think Americans are like TV adult idiots and Ken.

1226
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: Can you how can you make this dumber? Steven Stephen,

1227
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: I need the movie louder and dumber can they? And

1228
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: dances a kid? Mom? Stephen, I need you to send

1229
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: me announce a horse to drum a wolf Gang. We

1230
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: sent you five already, Wolfgang, you blew through the horse

1231
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: budget in two weeks. What are you doing with them?

1232
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: Over there? Opened a factory? Oh boy, this is gonna

1233
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 1: be a fun one for you to edit, Spielberg cut

1234
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: seven minutes from this, so not really that much else,

1235
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: but many many minor cuts. So I'm just a few

1236
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: seconds in length and just kind of shuffled the order

1237
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: of a few scenes. Uh. And he credited his editing

1238
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 1: technique to George Lucas, who were famously buddies. He thought

1239
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: George Lucas was a master of pacing and gifted it

1240
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: making his films snappy, which anyone who has seen those

1241
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: Star Wars prequels might beg to differ.

1242
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,959
Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess that's just before all that. Yeah,

1243
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 2: it's true. Among the changes Spielberg made was to increase

1244
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 2: the rumbling sound of the rock Bier as he approached

1245
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 2: the night Hob in the beginning of the film. All

1246
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 2: of that sounds like words salad to me. Oh why

1247
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: did he do that? Though I don't know.

1248
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 1: This is okay, I'll tell you abo go ahead, because

1249
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: the original version that the night Hob swears, and Spielberg

1250
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: wanted to obscure the swearing with this rumbling so that

1251
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: the obscenities wouldn't be there, so it would make it more,

1252
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:38,759
Speaker 1: you know, more of a kid friendly film.

1253
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the drowning Horse stays in the picture but can't

1254
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 2: have any profanity. To thank Spielberg for his work on this,

1255
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 2: Peterson gave him the actual ar In talisman prop, which

1256
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: still hangs in a glass display case in Spielberg's office.

1257
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,879
Speaker 1: I've heard that Spielberg's office he has this like table

1258
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 1: where he has all of his awards. But I mean

1259
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: like all of his awards, like his Oscar will be

1260
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: next to his pine with Derby trophy from his Scout

1261
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,480
Speaker 1: days as a kid like I just find that alldorable,

1262
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: like a little kid like, this is my table of

1263
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,560
Speaker 1: my special things. I love that.

1264
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 2: Oh wow, now we come to our famous You gotta

1265
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 2: start punching this SoundBite in mate. Yeah, I'm it's been

1266
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: enshrined as a bit a little segment that we'd like

1267
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: to always throw to.

1268
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: Jordan called it belongs in a museum. Yes, speaking of

1269
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: our Spielberg Lucas collaborations and priceless cinema props, we have

1270
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: to go to that belongs in a museum segment. The

1271
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: original book prop for The Never Ending Story was placed

1272
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: up for auction by an eBay person eBay by an

1273
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: eBay seller named Spirit Robin fifty seven, not once, but

1274
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: twice The first auction listed the item for seventy five

1275
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, but it failed to sell. Then it was

1276
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: listed again for twenty eight five hundred dollars, but still

1277
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: no takers. I actually reached out to this person who

1278
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: tells Japanese antiques, which I thought was interesting, and they

1279
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: have told me I did sell the book, and I've

1280
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: never heard from the buyer of the many years that

1281
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: have passed. I reached out to them on various occasions,

1282
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: including recently when someone inquired about the book. I've had

1283
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: a number of inquiries about it over the years. At

1284
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: any rate, I've sent all interested parties the NFT LinkedIn.

1285
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: There are currently three owners of the ten that have

1286
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: been minted, So anyone who wants their own special never

1287
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: ending story mementoly.

1288
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 2: You struggled to find a euphemism for NFTs.

1289
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: Reach out to spirit Robin R b y N fifty

1290
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: seven at eBay and then for to me on Twitter

1291
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: so I can write click and save it. You did.

1292
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: Perhaps because of this association with spiel and by extension,

1293
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: George Lucas, Wolfgang Peterson made sure to sneak in an

1294
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: assortment of their famous characters into his final cut after amit.

1295
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: I never noticed this, but in the very first scene

1296
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: inside the Ivory Tower, there's a wide shot of a

1297
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 1: crowd gathered, and in these wide shots, partially obscured by shadows,

1298
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: you can see Yoda, Chewbacca, two E Walks, C three

1299
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,759
Speaker 1: po and E T as well as Mickey Mouse and Gumby.

1300
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: Now they're not visible for tighter shots, probably because they

1301
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to be sued into oblivion. I can see

1302
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: wanting to have a little nod the Spielberg and George

1303
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: Lucas for kind of being friendly with them. It seems

1304
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: like putting Mickey and Gummy in there, you're just poking

1305
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: the bear. Yeah, copyright law seats. That's interesting. Uh. Wolfgang

1306
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: Peterson himself has a cameo in the beginning of the

1307
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 1: movie as one of the people in a street scene

1308
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: that the bullies bump into. That's interesting. One crucial difference

1309
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: between the American version of The Never Ending Story and

1310
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: Peterson's European cut is the addition of Giorgio Moroder's electro

1311
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: flourishes on the soundtrack, and of course his poppy theme

1312
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 1: tune that's only in the American version. He needed to

1313
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 1: like Juge up the soundtrack for the Americans. The theme

1314
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: song to Never Ending Story great song. For some reason,

1315
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: I always confuse it with the theme song to David

1316
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: the Nome. You remember that look around You anything, Lucy?

1317
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 1: I bet you met the David Bowie single different? Yeah,

1318
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 1: but yeah, never Ending Story theme incredible. The German version

1319
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have it. They only have the classical orchestral score

1320
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 1: by Klaus Dolinger, who also did the Dos Boots soundtrack. Yeah,

1321
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that Wolfgang Peterson just wanted to add an

1322
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: extra dose of sparkle for what he hoped he is

1323
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: an American film breakthrough, So he hired Georgio Moroder, who

1324
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: also done scores to American Jigglow, Midnight Express and probably

1325
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: most famously, Scarface got him to do his coked out

1326
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 1: proto techno disco guru thing. The theme tune is written

1327
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 1: by Moroder, but with lyrics by Keith Force of the

1328
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 1: German band Aman Duel Too. They are a pioneering Kroud

1329
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: rock band known for their winding psychedelic excursions which not

1330
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 1: punchy lyrics. Let me tell you that how much mo

1331
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: And The Never Ending Story theme is sung by the

1332
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: British pop singer Limal, the lead singer of Kajaja Goo Goo.

1333
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: Anyone anything there? Yeah? This thing on Kejajha Goo Go Yeah,

1334
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 1: Nope nothing. The song reached the top spot on music

1335
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: charts in Sweden and Norway and sold more than two

1336
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: hundred thousand copies in the UK, but only made it

1337
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,839
Speaker 1: to number seventeen on the US Billboard Hot one hundred.

1338
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: But then it enjoyed another peak in popularity when it

1339
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 1: was performed on the third season of Stranger Things in

1340
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Got that Stranger Things bommed Kate Busch. The

1341
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,719
Speaker 1: only way any of us will ever get our dues

1342
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: in life is being featured on a streamer. Ah, and

1343
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: that brings us up to today. You'll notice that we

1344
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: really didn't mention the sequels the Never Ending Story two,

1345
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: starring the late Jonathan Brandis as Bastion, or the even

1346
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: lesser known Never Ending Story three from nineteen ninety four,

1347
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: starring the kid from Free Willie as Bastion and a

1348
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: young Jack Black as a school bully. That's very interesting.

1349
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,759
Speaker 1: We don't mention these two movies because they are both bad.

1350
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: Any fans who for some masochistic reason are holding out

1351
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: for a reboot. I don't know why you would, but

1352
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 1: if you are, you will have a long wait. Wolfgang

1353
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: Peterson has said that the rights to The Never Ending

1354
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 1: Story are tied up in litigation, presumably due to author

1355
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: Michael Endez lawsuit, and they are unlikely to be untangled

1356
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 1: anytime soon, and pretty much everyone is fine with that.

1357
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson has been quoted as saying, I like the

1358
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: films the way it did. I like the film the

1359
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: way it is, with all its old fashioned charm. Just

1360
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 1: leave it alone. Alan Oppenheimer, the voice of falcoor Gomork

1361
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,640
Speaker 1: and the rock Bier, agrees, saying I think they need

1362
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: to leave it alone. It doesn't need a remake, and

1363
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: we should really just give the last word to the

1364
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: childlike Empress herself, Tammy Stenach, though she says she'd enjoy

1365
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: a remake on some level. She says the film is

1366
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: quote an invitation to grow the space of making and creating. Hopefully,

1367
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 1: if Hollywood diversifies and there are more women directors and

1368
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: more minorities writing scripts, the message of the film will

1369
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: be the ultimate winner here. So I don't think we

1370
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: need to remake this, but I think we need to

1371
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 1: keep growing the space for everyone. That is right, go

1372
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: ahead and do what you dream. That is a lovely sentiment. Yeah,

1373
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 1: good for her very much. So yeah, huh, well, Heigel,

1374
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: we don't want this to become another never ending episode,

1375
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: so let us wrap the us up.

1376
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 2: Uh. I'll give you that one, you know, just because

1377
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 2: you love this movie. Folks, thank you for listening. This

1378
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 2: has been too much information. I'm Alex Heigel.

1379
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: And I'm Jordan Runtalg. We'll catch you next time. Too

1380
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio. The show's executive

1381
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,719
Speaker 1: producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk. The supervising producer

1382
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,839
Speaker 1: is Mike Johns. The show was researched, written and hosted

1383
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 1: by Jordan run Talk and Alex Heigel, with original music

1384
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 1: by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you

1385
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

1386
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1387
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.