1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,276 --> 00:00:22,636 Speaker 2: There are at least two ways that you can frame 3 00:00:22,676 --> 00:00:28,796 Speaker 2: today's show. One frame, climate change makes the weather more unpredictable, 4 00:00:29,076 --> 00:00:31,956 Speaker 2: and the people who suffer most from this are the 5 00:00:32,076 --> 00:00:35,356 Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of poor farmers in the developing world 6 00:00:35,596 --> 00:00:40,116 Speaker 2: who rely on rain to irrigate their crops. The second 7 00:00:40,116 --> 00:00:43,836 Speaker 2: frame is a little less familiar. Poor farmers in the 8 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:48,196 Speaker 2: developing world may be the world's biggest untapped consumer market, 9 00:00:48,516 --> 00:00:51,476 Speaker 2: and a company that helps those farmers earn more money 10 00:00:51,716 --> 00:00:53,996 Speaker 2: and move into the formal economy. 11 00:00:53,956 --> 00:00:54,796 Speaker 1: Could be huge. 12 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:57,916 Speaker 2: Today's show is about a company that started out with 13 00:00:57,956 --> 00:01:01,596 Speaker 2: that first problem, helping poor farmers deal with climate change, 14 00:01:02,076 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 2: and now, after more than a decade, the company is 15 00:01:04,916 --> 00:01:08,916 Speaker 2: addressing the second. They're helping poor farmers get richer and 16 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:18,636 Speaker 2: starting to sell them things they can now afford. I'm 17 00:01:18,676 --> 00:01:20,956 Speaker 2: Jacob Goldstein, and this is What's Your Problem, the show 18 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:22,956 Speaker 2: where I talk to people who are trying to make 19 00:01:23,036 --> 00:01:26,036 Speaker 2: technological progress. What's your name and your job? 20 00:01:27,796 --> 00:01:30,156 Speaker 1: My name is. 21 00:01:29,956 --> 00:01:31,636 Speaker 2: Starting easy, It's gonna get hard. 22 00:01:33,236 --> 00:01:36,436 Speaker 1: My name is so funny. No one said no one's 23 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:38,476 Speaker 1: actually asking me what's your name and your job? Before? 24 00:01:38,676 --> 00:01:42,276 Speaker 1: Just like that, bam, coming at you, coming at me hot. 25 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: My name is Samir Ibrahim. I'm the CEO and a 26 00:01:46,516 --> 00:01:48,476 Speaker 1: co founder at sun Culture. 27 00:01:49,156 --> 00:01:52,756 Speaker 2: When Samir co founded sun Culture back in twenty twelve, 28 00:01:53,036 --> 00:01:55,356 Speaker 2: he was trying to solve the problem of helping poor 29 00:01:55,476 --> 00:01:59,076 Speaker 2: farmers irrigate their land. Wanted to sell them solar powered 30 00:01:59,116 --> 00:02:02,876 Speaker 2: water pumps, but it soon became clear that selling pumps 31 00:02:03,236 --> 00:02:05,876 Speaker 2: wasn't going to work on its own. To make solar 32 00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 2: irrigation work, sun Culture had to become a tech company, 33 00:02:09,516 --> 00:02:13,756 Speaker 2: and a carbon credit company and a finance company. Ultimately, 34 00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:17,276 Speaker 2: Samir realized that sun Culture really needed to solve a 35 00:02:17,316 --> 00:02:21,236 Speaker 2: deeper problem. How do you help poor farmers get richer? 36 00:02:21,796 --> 00:02:23,836 Speaker 1: A human sized solar panel on the roof of a 37 00:02:23,876 --> 00:02:29,556 Speaker 1: household completely changes someone's and someone's family's life in a 38 00:02:29,596 --> 00:02:34,316 Speaker 1: way that people who are living with disposable income may 39 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:38,596 Speaker 1: never experience that change. It's a huge change. It's like 40 00:02:38,636 --> 00:02:41,436 Speaker 1: from someone going and saying like, I literally have nothing 41 00:02:41,476 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 1: to like I can now pay school fees. I mean, 42 00:02:45,156 --> 00:02:46,156 Speaker 1: it's just it's wild. 43 00:02:46,636 --> 00:02:49,036 Speaker 2: Sun Culture is based in Kenya, which happens to be 44 00:02:49,116 --> 00:02:52,276 Speaker 2: where Samir's parents grew up. Before he was born. They 45 00:02:52,316 --> 00:02:55,756 Speaker 2: immigrated first to Canada and then to Florida, and Samir 46 00:02:55,876 --> 00:02:58,996 Speaker 2: was working as a consultant at PwC in Manhattan in 47 00:02:59,036 --> 00:03:01,716 Speaker 2: his early twenties when he and a friend decided to 48 00:03:01,796 --> 00:03:02,916 Speaker 2: start sun Culture. 49 00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:06,356 Speaker 1: It's no surprise that we weren't farmers. I didn't grow 50 00:03:06,396 --> 00:03:08,836 Speaker 1: up in a farming household, so I didn't know anything 51 00:03:08,836 --> 00:03:12,076 Speaker 1: about farming. So when we started thinking about how to 52 00:03:12,156 --> 00:03:15,476 Speaker 1: solve this problem, we first started exploring where this problem 53 00:03:15,636 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 1: was very big, and it just so happens that Africa 54 00:03:22,036 --> 00:03:25,796 Speaker 1: is where this problem is really prevalent. It's really prevalent 55 00:03:25,796 --> 00:03:28,996 Speaker 1: because two thirds of the workforce are farmers that live 56 00:03:29,036 --> 00:03:30,676 Speaker 1: on one or two acres of land, and they live 57 00:03:30,716 --> 00:03:32,796 Speaker 1: off grid, and they live in rural areas, so they're 58 00:03:32,836 --> 00:03:34,676 Speaker 1: the most affected by this problem. 59 00:03:34,796 --> 00:03:38,156 Speaker 2: And the problem narrowly is climate change makes it harder 60 00:03:38,156 --> 00:03:38,716 Speaker 2: to grow food. 61 00:03:38,756 --> 00:03:45,316 Speaker 1: That problem, yeah, exactly. Yeah, But then they're also potentially 62 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:47,276 Speaker 1: a big part of the solution to the second problem, 63 00:03:47,316 --> 00:03:49,156 Speaker 1: which is we need to grow more food to feed 64 00:03:49,236 --> 00:03:52,556 Speaker 1: it growing population. Yeah, Africa has sixty percent of the 65 00:03:52,636 --> 00:03:56,436 Speaker 1: world's unused farmable land. It's the only continent with an 66 00:03:56,476 --> 00:03:59,236 Speaker 1: economic water scarcity versus a physical water scarcity, So we 67 00:03:59,276 --> 00:04:02,596 Speaker 1: have enough groundwater to use it for growing crops and 68 00:04:02,676 --> 00:04:05,716 Speaker 1: keeping animals. Just people can afford to draw it, and 69 00:04:05,796 --> 00:04:11,196 Speaker 1: you have a massive unemployed workforce that is also agrarian, 70 00:04:11,956 --> 00:04:14,156 Speaker 1: so you have all the resources to sort of think 71 00:04:14,236 --> 00:04:18,196 Speaker 1: this through. Because I'm not a farmer, I looked at 72 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:20,476 Speaker 1: farming as just an algorithm. You have a bunch of 73 00:04:20,476 --> 00:04:23,956 Speaker 1: inputs and variables, then you have an output. So I 74 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:27,356 Speaker 1: looked at it and said, what are the variables that 75 00:04:27,516 --> 00:04:32,196 Speaker 1: have the most outsized impact on the outcome? And when 76 00:04:32,196 --> 00:04:34,676 Speaker 1: you look at all the farming inputs, it is very 77 00:04:34,716 --> 00:04:39,556 Speaker 1: clear that water has the most outsized impact on the output. 78 00:04:40,076 --> 00:04:43,836 Speaker 1: Having access to reliable water makes sense, makes sense. I 79 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,076 Speaker 1: might even have guessed that one not knowing anything, yeah, exactly, 80 00:04:47,916 --> 00:04:50,196 Speaker 1: having reliable water can increase your yields, but up to 81 00:04:50,236 --> 00:04:54,516 Speaker 1: five times, Like, it's pretty crazy. And it is coincidentally 82 00:04:55,436 --> 00:04:59,356 Speaker 1: the variable that changes the most because water for agriculture 83 00:04:59,356 --> 00:05:00,876 Speaker 1: in many parts of the world comes from the rain, 84 00:05:00,916 --> 00:05:04,796 Speaker 1: which is increasingly more inconsistent and unreliable. So he said, 85 00:05:04,876 --> 00:05:10,316 Speaker 1: great Africa water, that's where we have to start. Irrigation 86 00:05:10,396 --> 00:05:13,956 Speaker 1: in Africa is a sixty five billion dollars opportunity because 87 00:05:14,116 --> 00:05:17,516 Speaker 1: only four percent of African farmers irrigate versus close to 88 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:18,876 Speaker 1: forty percent in Asia. 89 00:05:19,156 --> 00:05:22,196 Speaker 2: So the other ninety six percent are just relying on rain. 90 00:05:22,596 --> 00:05:25,276 Speaker 1: Rain. That's why African farmers are some of the ports 91 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:27,756 Speaker 1: in the world because imagine you don't know when the 92 00:05:27,836 --> 00:05:29,836 Speaker 1: rain's gonna come. So we were like, okay, why do you, 93 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:32,356 Speaker 1: Sophie farmers irrigate and we're like, oh, duh. You'll probably 94 00:05:32,396 --> 00:05:35,556 Speaker 1: guess the answer as well. It's just too expensive. Not 95 00:05:35,636 --> 00:05:39,516 Speaker 1: only is the water pump too expensive, but the recurring 96 00:05:39,636 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: cost for fuel, which is forty to eighty bucks a month, 97 00:05:43,436 --> 00:05:46,436 Speaker 1: is too expensive for a farmer that's making one thousand 98 00:05:46,516 --> 00:05:47,756 Speaker 1: or fifteen hundred dollars a year. 99 00:05:48,196 --> 00:05:51,556 Speaker 2: And so the fuel is this like a deep diesel generator, 100 00:05:51,596 --> 00:05:52,356 Speaker 2: I mean, is that the. 101 00:05:52,276 --> 00:05:56,156 Speaker 1: Way of petrol exactly a diesel generator of diesel powered 102 00:05:56,636 --> 00:06:00,356 Speaker 1: or petrol powered water pump to move the water to 103 00:06:00,396 --> 00:06:03,716 Speaker 1: give to their crops was a problem because irrigation is 104 00:06:03,756 --> 00:06:05,716 Speaker 1: just moving water from one place to the other. 105 00:06:05,956 --> 00:06:08,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, so like there's a river over there, not that 106 00:06:08,236 --> 00:06:12,396 Speaker 2: far away, but the farmer doesn't have can't afford to 107 00:06:12,476 --> 00:06:14,916 Speaker 2: buy the gas to run the generator to move the 108 00:06:14,956 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 2: water from the river, and by the way, if they 109 00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:20,236 Speaker 2: could buy the gas to run the generator, then you're 110 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 2: making climate change worse again. 111 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:22,836 Speaker 1: But we don't exactly worry about that. We don't have 112 00:06:22,876 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 1: to worry about that. That's not even, that's not even. 113 00:06:24,596 --> 00:06:26,476 Speaker 1: That's just like they're just like, we need to be 114 00:06:26,516 --> 00:06:29,716 Speaker 1: able to afford something, right, yeah, right, sure? Or then 115 00:06:29,796 --> 00:06:32,156 Speaker 1: what happens is they just take buckets and they fill 116 00:06:32,196 --> 00:06:34,316 Speaker 1: up those buckets with twenty liters of water, which is 117 00:06:34,356 --> 00:06:36,276 Speaker 1: forty five pounds, which is those big weight plates in 118 00:06:36,276 --> 00:06:38,716 Speaker 1: the gym, and then they walk to their farm or 119 00:06:38,716 --> 00:06:40,836 Speaker 1: they pull it up from the well and just is 120 00:06:40,876 --> 00:06:45,436 Speaker 1: super inefficient. So we said, okay, we need to figure 121 00:06:45,436 --> 00:06:49,236 Speaker 1: out a way to first make irrigation affordable, then we 122 00:06:49,276 --> 00:06:50,956 Speaker 1: need to figure out a way to get it to people. 123 00:06:50,996 --> 00:06:53,356 Speaker 1: So from an affordability standpoint. 124 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:56,956 Speaker 2: Do you ever stop and think like this is too 125 00:06:57,036 --> 00:07:00,956 Speaker 2: much Like as you're like at the talking about these things, 126 00:07:01,156 --> 00:07:02,916 Speaker 2: you're just like a college kid. 127 00:07:02,836 --> 00:07:05,796 Speaker 1: Right we were twenty three, And I think that was 128 00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:07,396 Speaker 1: the advantage. 129 00:07:07,316 --> 00:07:09,636 Speaker 2: You had basically never had a job. It wasn't like 130 00:07:09,636 --> 00:07:12,076 Speaker 2: you had like run some company or done some big thing, right. 131 00:07:12,116 --> 00:07:14,796 Speaker 1: I think that was the advantage. I think that's why 132 00:07:14,836 --> 00:07:16,836 Speaker 1: we probably didn't stop and say this is going to 133 00:07:16,876 --> 00:07:19,356 Speaker 1: be really hard. I think, I think really that. 134 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:21,676 Speaker 2: Was it the dumb kid advantage. 135 00:07:21,956 --> 00:07:24,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I call it, what did I call it? 136 00:07:24,316 --> 00:07:27,076 Speaker 1: Sort of naive confidence or just yeah, one of those, 137 00:07:27,076 --> 00:07:30,956 Speaker 1: but I like the dumb kid confidence is probably more accurate. Yeah. 138 00:07:30,996 --> 00:07:32,676 Speaker 1: So we're just sitting there, We're like, oh, yeah, obviously 139 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:36,596 Speaker 1: we're just gonna make irrigation cheaper, no problem. So okay 140 00:07:36,836 --> 00:07:39,756 Speaker 1: to do that. That is like twenty eleven ish, right, 141 00:07:39,756 --> 00:07:43,356 Speaker 1: this is what twenty eleven, twenty twelve, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 142 00:07:43,916 --> 00:07:48,236 Speaker 1: What's really interesting about that time is we reached grid 143 00:07:48,316 --> 00:07:50,676 Speaker 1: parody in a number of African countries. So the cost 144 00:07:50,756 --> 00:07:55,156 Speaker 1: to connect your power to power your your household with 145 00:07:55,276 --> 00:07:58,356 Speaker 1: solar became cheaper than the grid. So you have you 146 00:07:58,356 --> 00:08:01,956 Speaker 1: have these like tailwinds in terms of cost reductions kind 147 00:08:01,996 --> 00:08:04,436 Speaker 1: of happening. So let's figure out to make the fixed 148 00:08:04,436 --> 00:08:08,796 Speaker 1: cost reasonable and a fixed cost, and then let's finance it. 149 00:08:08,876 --> 00:08:11,676 Speaker 1: So we spread that fixed cost over time, because no 150 00:08:11,716 --> 00:08:14,436 Speaker 1: matter what, the upfront cost is still too expensive, which 151 00:08:14,436 --> 00:08:17,156 Speaker 1: is why only four percent of African farmers irrigate with 152 00:08:17,196 --> 00:08:19,316 Speaker 1: diesel petrol pumps. So we said, let's take an old 153 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:24,516 Speaker 1: technology water pumps irrigation, decarbonize it, figure out how to 154 00:08:24,516 --> 00:08:26,996 Speaker 1: make it solar powered, and then deployed in a resource 155 00:08:27,036 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 1: rich environment like Africa. That's like the summary framework. So 156 00:08:30,396 --> 00:08:33,996 Speaker 1: we went and developed and made Africa's first solar irrigation company, 157 00:08:34,956 --> 00:08:40,036 Speaker 1: and we the original price of the system. If you 158 00:08:40,076 --> 00:08:41,556 Speaker 1: were to go and try to buy one of these 159 00:08:41,596 --> 00:08:45,076 Speaker 1: before from like an NGO, it would cost twenty five grand. 160 00:08:45,596 --> 00:08:49,276 Speaker 1: We managed to get it down to five grand, okay, twenty. 161 00:08:48,956 --> 00:08:51,596 Speaker 2: Five thousand dollars, So that's like that, so twenty five 162 00:08:51,596 --> 00:08:53,916 Speaker 2: thousand dollars is completely out of the question, presumably for 163 00:08:53,996 --> 00:08:56,196 Speaker 2: really out of the small farmer who can't afford to 164 00:08:56,316 --> 00:08:58,396 Speaker 2: diesel the generator. 165 00:08:58,476 --> 00:09:02,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, when we started, we managed to without really any 166 00:09:03,316 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 1: technical innovation, just buying the right things from the right 167 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:09,636 Speaker 1: places and putting it together for our pilot project. We 168 00:09:09,756 --> 00:09:12,236 Speaker 1: got it down to five thousand dollars. And at that 169 00:09:12,316 --> 00:09:15,396 Speaker 1: point we're like, you know what, I'm sure over time 170 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:18,036 Speaker 1: we can get this to be cheaper. Like, let's just 171 00:09:18,476 --> 00:09:20,556 Speaker 1: accept we can do that, and let's figure out the 172 00:09:20,556 --> 00:09:23,916 Speaker 1: other things I need to go around this, okay. And 173 00:09:23,476 --> 00:09:26,516 Speaker 1: that's that's when we learned that affordability was one part, 174 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:31,156 Speaker 1: but availability was the other part, because huh, and that's 175 00:09:31,396 --> 00:09:36,516 Speaker 1: the harder part. And it's because because small, older farmers 176 00:09:36,516 --> 00:09:39,996 Speaker 1: don't have disposable income, no one's really selling them a 177 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:42,316 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, which means the infrastructure to be able 178 00:09:42,356 --> 00:09:43,636 Speaker 1: to get them things doesn't. 179 00:09:43,396 --> 00:09:46,436 Speaker 2: Exist, like to some significant degree. They're not in the 180 00:09:46,556 --> 00:09:51,636 Speaker 2: kind of monetized, financialized economy, right exactly, they're growing food 181 00:09:51,636 --> 00:09:54,956 Speaker 2: for themselves, they're treading some amount of food whatever at 182 00:09:54,996 --> 00:09:57,516 Speaker 2: the market, but they're just not in the cash economy 183 00:09:57,556 --> 00:09:58,316 Speaker 2: the way we think of it. 184 00:09:58,396 --> 00:10:02,836 Speaker 1: Right exactly, They're in the informal economy and it's very 185 00:10:04,916 --> 00:10:09,676 Speaker 1: isolated and acute, so very village level, et cetera. So 186 00:10:09,716 --> 00:10:12,396 Speaker 1: we went from thinking we could drop ship these products 187 00:10:12,436 --> 00:10:15,716 Speaker 1: from China and just like Johnny Appleseed, get a bunch 188 00:10:15,756 --> 00:10:18,756 Speaker 1: of these things out really quickly. So then realizing we 189 00:10:18,876 --> 00:10:22,236 Speaker 1: had to figure out how to manage our own supply chain, 190 00:10:22,796 --> 00:10:24,316 Speaker 1: we had to first wait to do a bunch of 191 00:10:24,836 --> 00:10:26,356 Speaker 1: innovation on the power electronics. 192 00:10:26,396 --> 00:10:28,276 Speaker 2: Well wait, why didn't your first idea work? So your 193 00:10:28,316 --> 00:10:30,796 Speaker 2: idea is like, we can make these things at you 194 00:10:30,836 --> 00:10:34,676 Speaker 2: know whatever, eighty percent cheaper than they exist now they'll 195 00:10:34,716 --> 00:10:37,036 Speaker 2: be a good deal for farmers, like you know, we'll 196 00:10:37,156 --> 00:10:42,036 Speaker 2: order parts from China like everybody does. Why didn't that work. 197 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:44,556 Speaker 1: Because financing wasn't part of the original idea. It was 198 00:10:44,636 --> 00:10:47,396 Speaker 1: we thought we'd be able to do with banks, and 199 00:10:47,436 --> 00:10:49,436 Speaker 1: we thought we'd be able to work with banks to finance, 200 00:10:50,236 --> 00:10:54,796 Speaker 1: and banks in Africa will ask farmers for two things. 201 00:10:55,076 --> 00:10:57,076 Speaker 1: One is a pay slip and they're like, well, I'm 202 00:10:57,116 --> 00:11:00,156 Speaker 1: a farmer. I don't have a pay slip, job or collateral. 203 00:11:00,636 --> 00:11:03,436 Speaker 1: And banks aren't willing to take irrigation or a cow 204 00:11:03,596 --> 00:11:05,476 Speaker 1: as collateral because they don't know how to repossess and 205 00:11:05,516 --> 00:11:08,956 Speaker 1: resell them, so farmers can't get access to loans. We 206 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:11,396 Speaker 1: realize we have to figure our financing. We're like, okay, 207 00:11:11,516 --> 00:11:14,356 Speaker 1: that's interesting, and then we figured out. We realized we 208 00:11:14,396 --> 00:11:16,476 Speaker 1: had to figure out the installation because there's no third 209 00:11:16,516 --> 00:11:20,716 Speaker 1: party installers, the maintenance, the ongoing after sales support. We 210 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:22,916 Speaker 1: had to figure out the digital engagement. We had to 211 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:25,236 Speaker 1: figure out supply chain, We had to figure out R 212 00:11:25,236 --> 00:11:27,636 Speaker 1: and D from the power electronics side, we had to 213 00:11:27,636 --> 00:11:29,756 Speaker 1: figure out how to monetize carbon credits to give them 214 00:11:29,756 --> 00:11:32,956 Speaker 1: further discounts boomom boom bom bom bom bom bom. So 215 00:11:33,036 --> 00:11:34,756 Speaker 1: what we thought was going to be just a drop 216 00:11:34,796 --> 00:11:38,596 Speaker 1: shipping company ended up being a company that has to 217 00:11:38,596 --> 00:11:44,596 Speaker 1: build this entire physical and digital infrastructure to get these 218 00:11:44,716 --> 00:11:48,516 Speaker 1: irrigation systems to farmers. And that's where the journey started. 219 00:11:49,636 --> 00:11:51,476 Speaker 2: Why didn't you give up when you realized that? 220 00:11:54,516 --> 00:11:57,356 Speaker 1: Because we only realized it over time. It wasn't all 221 00:11:57,356 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 1: in one wa bam, thank you, ma'am kind of thing. 222 00:11:59,796 --> 00:12:01,316 Speaker 2: Do you kept being like, oh, we just got to 223 00:12:01,356 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 2: solve this one thing. 224 00:12:03,116 --> 00:12:08,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, truly, And that's and we kept uncovering the next 225 00:12:08,236 --> 00:12:13,516 Speaker 1: step over and over and over again until finally, a 226 00:12:13,556 --> 00:12:17,316 Speaker 1: few in twenty twenty one, this is almost ten years later, 227 00:12:18,276 --> 00:12:22,156 Speaker 1: we've figured out one of the last remaining pieces in 228 00:12:22,236 --> 00:12:24,796 Speaker 1: terms of making this truly affordable and locked in for 229 00:12:24,876 --> 00:12:28,276 Speaker 1: a large group of people, which is monetizing carbon credits 230 00:12:28,316 --> 00:12:31,596 Speaker 1: and giving our customers discounts with those revenues. And at 231 00:12:31,596 --> 00:12:37,116 Speaker 1: that point, we have a business that has shown that 232 00:12:37,196 --> 00:12:39,676 Speaker 1: you can collect repayments from farmers. We have a ninety 233 00:12:39,676 --> 00:12:43,476 Speaker 1: percent collection rate from the quote unquote worst unbankable people 234 00:12:43,476 --> 00:12:47,716 Speaker 1: in the world. We have ninety percent digital engagement from 235 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:51,036 Speaker 1: people who most of the world writes off as not 236 00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:52,956 Speaker 1: being technologically literate. 237 00:12:53,196 --> 00:12:55,436 Speaker 2: But via text message or something, what does it mean? 238 00:12:55,716 --> 00:12:58,756 Speaker 1: They're checking their balance through our app? How much do 239 00:12:58,836 --> 00:13:02,036 Speaker 1: I have left? They're asking, they're asking questions, raising tickets, 240 00:13:02,036 --> 00:13:04,556 Speaker 1: they're referring friends. If you're a mobile app, They're like, 241 00:13:04,636 --> 00:13:09,876 Speaker 1: really like engaging. And we get to this point where 242 00:13:09,916 --> 00:13:12,316 Speaker 1: finally we said, okay, in order to make this affordable 243 00:13:12,396 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 1: to the mass market, not just at that point, I 244 00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:17,916 Speaker 1: don't know, some tens of thousands of farmers we worked with. 245 00:13:18,076 --> 00:13:21,196 Speaker 2: So it was this sort of like better off farmers. 246 00:13:21,316 --> 00:13:24,636 Speaker 2: Presumably five thousand dollars where you started, it's still very 247 00:13:24,676 --> 00:13:27,076 Speaker 2: expensive for a farmer who's farming a few acres and 248 00:13:27,076 --> 00:13:28,076 Speaker 2: can't afford irrigation. 249 00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:32,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even even getting down to seven hundred dollars, 250 00:13:32,636 --> 00:13:35,356 Speaker 1: which is where we got to, and even if we 251 00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:38,956 Speaker 1: spread that cost over over a finance period of two 252 00:13:38,996 --> 00:13:42,956 Speaker 1: or three years, even paying something like sixty bucks a 253 00:13:42,956 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: month or fifty bucks a month is too expensive for 254 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:48,676 Speaker 1: most people. Huh. And we have to keep figuring out 255 00:13:48,716 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 1: how do you make this more affordable. 256 00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:53,156 Speaker 2: So the price has gone from five thousand dollars to 257 00:13:53,196 --> 00:13:56,196 Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty dollars, and those are nominal prices, right, 258 00:13:56,236 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 2: and real prices it will have fallen even more. How 259 00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:03,196 Speaker 2: much of that decline in price is the decline in 260 00:14:03,236 --> 00:14:05,196 Speaker 2: the price of solar panels? 261 00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:10,836 Speaker 1: Some of it some? Yeah, most of it half no, 262 00:14:11,076 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 1: less way less, way interesting, interesting, way less. 263 00:14:14,516 --> 00:14:16,516 Speaker 2: Tell me all the things you did to make it cheaper. 264 00:14:16,556 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 2: Tell me some of the things you did to me. 265 00:14:18,116 --> 00:14:22,596 Speaker 1: A lot of it was working on the power electronics, 266 00:14:22,876 --> 00:14:26,076 Speaker 1: so figuring out how to take a small amount of 267 00:14:26,116 --> 00:14:28,436 Speaker 1: power to power a high powered appliance, So we need 268 00:14:28,476 --> 00:14:30,996 Speaker 1: less solar to power a water pump. 269 00:14:31,236 --> 00:14:33,156 Speaker 2: I read and I think it was a Bloomberg News 270 00:14:33,276 --> 00:14:36,996 Speaker 2: article that your pumps use something like three hundred or 271 00:14:36,996 --> 00:14:39,756 Speaker 2: four hundred watts. Yeah, she's crazy, right, Like that's like 272 00:14:39,956 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 2: four incandescent light bulbs. 273 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:44,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you can't see me, but it's like 274 00:14:44,276 --> 00:14:45,556 Speaker 1: a human size. 275 00:14:45,596 --> 00:14:49,276 Speaker 2: Like the idea that that can be transformational for a farmer, Yeah, 276 00:14:49,716 --> 00:14:53,716 Speaker 2: is really something to think about. 277 00:14:53,836 --> 00:14:55,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like there was one of our one of 278 00:14:55,636 --> 00:14:58,396 Speaker 1: the stories are so incredible. One of our customers give 279 00:14:58,436 --> 00:15:03,276 Speaker 1: a ted talk, and in that talk she talks about 280 00:15:03,956 --> 00:15:07,076 Speaker 1: like talking to her plants and promising them water is 281 00:15:07,116 --> 00:15:10,436 Speaker 1: going to come because they're dying, and literally not like 282 00:15:10,596 --> 00:15:13,396 Speaker 1: just going to everything she can think of and bring 283 00:15:13,596 --> 00:15:16,276 Speaker 1: in her being to try to convince her plants to 284 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:19,956 Speaker 1: stay alive. You go from that to her saying my 285 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:23,556 Speaker 1: cow didn't die. I expanded my farm and making kombucha. 286 00:15:23,676 --> 00:15:27,796 Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's really transformational stuff. And there's one 287 00:15:27,836 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 1: story that will always stick with me that that summarizes 288 00:15:31,796 --> 00:15:34,596 Speaker 1: and really humanizes this. We went to see a farmer 289 00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:40,756 Speaker 1: who is getting an installation. I love visiting installations when 290 00:15:40,756 --> 00:15:44,196 Speaker 1: they're happening, especially for those who are using the manual 291 00:15:44,196 --> 00:15:47,916 Speaker 1: buckets before, because once they realize that they don't have 292 00:15:47,956 --> 00:15:50,836 Speaker 1: to spend three or four hours a day physically pulling 293 00:15:50,836 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 1: a bucket of water from underground to the surface, whether 294 00:15:53,476 --> 00:15:56,396 Speaker 1: it's one hundred feet down or beyond, and they can 295 00:15:56,476 --> 00:15:59,516 Speaker 1: do that with a flick of a button, the look 296 00:15:59,596 --> 00:16:03,236 Speaker 1: on their face will change your life. It is unreal. 297 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:06,436 Speaker 1: And when we ask this customer in particular, so now 298 00:16:06,476 --> 00:16:09,036 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do. You're not gonna use your 299 00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:12,436 Speaker 1: muscles to pull this bucket up, and she looked at 300 00:16:12,436 --> 00:16:14,316 Speaker 1: me in the face and she said, I'm going to 301 00:16:14,356 --> 00:16:16,996 Speaker 1: get fat with a huge grin on her face. She 302 00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:20,116 Speaker 1: was just like, that's what I'm gonna do. I was like, 303 00:16:20,196 --> 00:16:21,956 Speaker 1: that's right, it's amazing. 304 00:16:23,236 --> 00:16:27,036 Speaker 2: So okay, so let's go back to you know, you 305 00:16:27,156 --> 00:16:29,596 Speaker 2: got more than ninety percent out of the price of 306 00:16:29,636 --> 00:16:32,956 Speaker 2: this thing, right, which seems like the fundamental thing you did. 307 00:16:33,076 --> 00:16:33,236 Speaker 1: Right. 308 00:16:33,676 --> 00:16:35,676 Speaker 2: Well, so one of the things you did to get 309 00:16:35,676 --> 00:16:39,676 Speaker 2: the price down was start using carbon credits? Yes, and 310 00:16:41,116 --> 00:16:43,716 Speaker 2: I don't I kind I mean, I can sort of 311 00:16:43,716 --> 00:16:46,116 Speaker 2: guess at that, but I also have some questions about that. 312 00:16:46,196 --> 00:16:49,676 Speaker 2: So tell me about how carbon credits work in your business. 313 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:58,996 Speaker 1: Okay, So there is a there are official verification bodies 314 00:16:59,916 --> 00:17:04,276 Speaker 1: that create methodologies that count how carbon credits are avoided 315 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:08,516 Speaker 1: or removed from the atmosphere. And it just so happens 316 00:17:08,516 --> 00:17:11,236 Speaker 1: that there's an exis existing methodology under the UN framework 317 00:17:12,036 --> 00:17:18,756 Speaker 1: that talks about a displacement of diesel or petrol pumps. Okay, So, 318 00:17:18,916 --> 00:17:24,116 Speaker 1: because solar is an alternate to diesel and petrol, we 319 00:17:24,156 --> 00:17:28,116 Speaker 1: generate carbon credits for the systems that we install. 320 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:31,876 Speaker 2: So how much do you get paid in carbon credit 321 00:17:31,916 --> 00:17:35,756 Speaker 2: credits for you know, the sort of median pump that 322 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:36,276 Speaker 2: you sell. 323 00:17:36,596 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: So the way to think about this is we generate 324 00:17:38,556 --> 00:17:41,996 Speaker 1: carbon credits. The system generates carbon credits for seven years. 325 00:17:42,716 --> 00:17:45,516 Speaker 1: We give customers a discount upfront, and we sell those 326 00:17:45,516 --> 00:17:47,996 Speaker 1: carbon credits over the remaining years, so we raise debt 327 00:17:48,036 --> 00:17:50,836 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. We're able to give 328 00:17:50,836 --> 00:17:55,716 Speaker 1: our farmers about a twenty percent discount at minimum on 329 00:17:56,236 --> 00:17:59,476 Speaker 1: the monthly cost because we're able to sell carbon. Now. 330 00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:01,916 Speaker 1: It might sound like a little bit of just a 331 00:18:01,956 --> 00:18:05,396 Speaker 1: small discount, but we ran a pilot when we were 332 00:18:05,436 --> 00:18:08,876 Speaker 1: launching our carbon business and we reduce the price of 333 00:18:08,876 --> 00:18:11,876 Speaker 1: our system by ten percent and our sales went up 334 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: by something like I think it was like two times 335 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:18,076 Speaker 1: something like that. Where we do st our price by 336 00:18:18,116 --> 00:18:20,076 Speaker 1: twenty eight percent, our sales went up by four and 337 00:18:20,116 --> 00:18:24,276 Speaker 1: a half times. Wow. So small adjustments in the monthly 338 00:18:24,316 --> 00:18:29,076 Speaker 1: price make a huge difference. So we use those carbon 339 00:18:29,116 --> 00:18:33,836 Speaker 1: revenues to directly subsidize our farmers. We're not a carbon business, 340 00:18:33,876 --> 00:18:35,996 Speaker 1: so it's a pass through to our customers, which has 341 00:18:36,076 --> 00:18:38,916 Speaker 1: enabled us now to grow more. You know, half of 342 00:18:38,956 --> 00:18:40,876 Speaker 1: our customer base was added in the last two years 343 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:41,396 Speaker 1: because of that. 344 00:18:42,716 --> 00:18:48,196 Speaker 2: So you're you know, lending the farmer's money to buy 345 00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:54,516 Speaker 2: the pump. Obviously you're borrowing against seven years of carbon 346 00:18:54,556 --> 00:19:00,076 Speaker 2: credits and passing that through Like you're a finance company 347 00:19:01,396 --> 00:19:05,076 Speaker 2: to some significant degree, Like you're in the finance business. 348 00:19:05,476 --> 00:19:08,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're sort of an everything company. And that's just 349 00:19:09,676 --> 00:19:12,796 Speaker 1: it's just it's funny. It's like, it's really hard to 350 00:19:12,916 --> 00:19:16,316 Speaker 1: describe what type of company we are to many people 351 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:19,076 Speaker 1: because we have to do so many things in order 352 00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:20,676 Speaker 1: to give people access to these products. 353 00:19:22,276 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 2: And it's I guess it goes back to what you 354 00:19:24,036 --> 00:19:28,876 Speaker 2: were saying, which is your customers, these small farmers are 355 00:19:28,916 --> 00:19:32,556 Speaker 2: just not in a market economy the way we are 356 00:19:32,596 --> 00:19:35,196 Speaker 2: so used to thinking of being in a market economy. Right, 357 00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:38,276 Speaker 2: there's not access to capital or to financing. Obviously, what 358 00:19:38,356 --> 00:19:40,836 Speaker 2: else is there not that we might take for granted, 359 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 2: Like what else do you have to provide that you 360 00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:43,756 Speaker 2: might not have thought? 361 00:19:43,876 --> 00:19:45,956 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when you're if your cable breaks, 362 00:19:45,956 --> 00:19:48,756 Speaker 1: you call a third party installer maintenance personally, you go 363 00:19:48,796 --> 00:19:50,436 Speaker 1: on task grab it to find someone to do it 364 00:19:50,436 --> 00:19:53,196 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. So we do all of the installation ourselves, 365 00:19:53,716 --> 00:19:57,156 Speaker 1: all the maintenance, all the ongoing after sales support. What's 366 00:19:57,156 --> 00:20:01,436 Speaker 1: been really interesting now is and this will answer the 367 00:20:01,476 --> 00:20:04,476 Speaker 1: question of what else might you know, think about our 368 00:20:04,516 --> 00:20:07,036 Speaker 1: customers are making more money, like we talked about, and 369 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:09,116 Speaker 1: just like us, when they make money, they want to 370 00:20:09,236 --> 00:20:11,796 Speaker 1: buy more stuff. They want to get fat, they want 371 00:20:11,836 --> 00:20:13,316 Speaker 1: to get fat, but they also want to buy things 372 00:20:13,316 --> 00:20:15,716 Speaker 1: like health insurance, and they want to buy things like 373 00:20:15,836 --> 00:20:18,396 Speaker 1: weather insurance. They want to buy things like high quality 374 00:20:18,396 --> 00:20:22,356 Speaker 1: seeds and fertilizer. So they're coming at us and they're saying, hey, 375 00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:25,596 Speaker 1: you know i've been paying you. Well, I'm paying my 376 00:20:26,196 --> 00:20:28,196 Speaker 1: twenty thirty bucks a month and do it I'm paying 377 00:20:29,356 --> 00:20:31,236 Speaker 1: Can you just add a little bit more to my 378 00:20:31,316 --> 00:20:36,276 Speaker 1: monthly and give me these other things? So we said okay. 379 00:20:37,036 --> 00:20:39,436 Speaker 1: So about a year ago we started a pilot where 380 00:20:39,436 --> 00:20:42,756 Speaker 1: we bundled in health insurance. So if someone gets sick 381 00:20:42,796 --> 00:20:46,436 Speaker 1: and go to the hospital, if someone passes away, the 382 00:20:46,476 --> 00:20:48,796 Speaker 1: family has insurance to be able to take care of 383 00:20:48,836 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 1: that need. 384 00:20:49,916 --> 00:20:55,396 Speaker 2: Now let me ask you are are there. You can't 385 00:20:55,436 --> 00:20:58,116 Speaker 2: be a health insurance company too, right, presumably there's there 386 00:20:58,156 --> 00:21:00,676 Speaker 2: are health insurance companies in these countries. You are just 387 00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:04,276 Speaker 2: selling insurance and taking some weird bundle. 388 00:21:04,276 --> 00:21:06,596 Speaker 1: We're starting to bundle it to the monthly because again, 389 00:21:06,796 --> 00:21:08,676 Speaker 1: the reason they come to us is because they trust us, 390 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:13,636 Speaker 1: they get duped by not good products. They trust us. 391 00:21:14,796 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 1: We can get them discounts because we're buying in bulk basically, right, 392 00:21:17,596 --> 00:21:20,116 Speaker 1: because we just added to the monthly payments and then 393 00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:22,156 Speaker 1: they don't have to go and try to figure out themselves, right. 394 00:21:23,076 --> 00:21:26,076 Speaker 1: So we did that. We made an investment into a 395 00:21:26,116 --> 00:21:29,156 Speaker 1: company that allows us to now finance agriculture inputs. So 396 00:21:29,516 --> 00:21:32,236 Speaker 1: let's say you're Jacob as a farmer, you're paying well 397 00:21:32,276 --> 00:21:34,636 Speaker 1: for ten months and you come to us and you're like, 398 00:21:34,676 --> 00:21:37,836 Speaker 1: I want some seeds. We're like, cool, here's a voucher 399 00:21:38,356 --> 00:21:40,276 Speaker 1: that we sent to your phone. You can go to 400 00:21:40,316 --> 00:21:42,436 Speaker 1: any of these right now in Kenya one thousand to 401 00:21:42,516 --> 00:21:45,036 Speaker 1: proof shops you can get your seeds and what is 402 00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:49,196 Speaker 1: added to your monthly payments. And last month we started 403 00:21:49,356 --> 00:21:53,796 Speaker 1: a pilot with Parametric Weather Insurance. If it floods in 404 00:21:53,836 --> 00:21:56,676 Speaker 1: your area, you get paid out as well. So we're 405 00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:59,116 Speaker 1: starting to think about, okay, how do we now provide 406 00:21:59,396 --> 00:22:04,636 Speaker 1: access to services that helps people protect themselves from shocks 407 00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:07,036 Speaker 1: and go back to the same thesis, right, how do 408 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 1: you increase prosperity at a small, older farmer level and 409 00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:13,516 Speaker 1: rural areas to increase food supply and reduce client migration. 410 00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:18,116 Speaker 1: All of these things help farmers protect themselves against the 411 00:22:18,196 --> 00:22:20,996 Speaker 1: risk of not paying for their irrigation system. Just good 412 00:22:21,036 --> 00:22:23,236 Speaker 1: for your business, which is good for our business for sure, 413 00:22:23,276 --> 00:22:26,316 Speaker 1: which is good for our business. And that's also just 414 00:22:26,356 --> 00:22:28,836 Speaker 1: a bunch of things that will help them not have 415 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:31,036 Speaker 1: to worry about where they're going to spend money and 416 00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:34,476 Speaker 1: figure that out. So's it's kind of all bundled together, 417 00:22:34,716 --> 00:22:37,036 Speaker 1: and we're in the phase of thinking about how do 418 00:22:37,076 --> 00:22:40,756 Speaker 1: we continue to provide services for our customers for things 419 00:22:40,756 --> 00:22:45,276 Speaker 1: that they want. Does this become an ongoing subscription that 420 00:22:45,316 --> 00:22:47,476 Speaker 1: they are able to access that they want to do 421 00:22:47,516 --> 00:22:50,236 Speaker 1: they want extended warranty. So we're in this discovery phase 422 00:22:50,636 --> 00:22:52,876 Speaker 1: where our customers are pulling us to offer more products 423 00:22:52,876 --> 00:22:55,556 Speaker 1: and services because we have a credit relationship with them, 424 00:22:55,596 --> 00:23:02,116 Speaker 1: because we have their location, because we have payment history, 425 00:23:02,316 --> 00:23:07,356 Speaker 1: all these things. This digital engagement. We're now realizing that 426 00:23:07,436 --> 00:23:09,756 Speaker 1: we can be the access point for people trying to 427 00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:12,796 Speaker 1: get services and products to farmers, and access points for 428 00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:16,716 Speaker 1: farmers who want to get access to high qualify, high quality, 429 00:23:17,236 --> 00:23:20,836 Speaker 1: verified products and services versus going to go buying a 430 00:23:20,876 --> 00:23:23,876 Speaker 1: bag of seeds that never actually sprout, which is often 431 00:23:23,916 --> 00:23:25,196 Speaker 1: their experience. 432 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:40,276 Speaker 2: Will be back in just a minute. Part of the 433 00:23:40,316 --> 00:23:44,836 Speaker 2: way agriculture has become profoundly more productive in the United 434 00:23:44,876 --> 00:23:50,116 Speaker 2: States and other countries has been consolidation. Right, It used 435 00:23:50,116 --> 00:23:52,516 Speaker 2: to be the case in this country that eighty percent 436 00:23:52,556 --> 00:23:54,436 Speaker 2: of the people were farmers. That it was fifty percent, 437 00:23:54,516 --> 00:23:55,636 Speaker 2: and now it's two percent. 438 00:23:55,716 --> 00:23:56,236 Speaker 1: And that is. 439 00:23:56,196 --> 00:24:00,756 Speaker 2: Because basically we have substituted capital and technology for labor 440 00:24:01,076 --> 00:24:03,916 Speaker 2: and that has worked out great in many ways. And 441 00:24:03,956 --> 00:24:07,276 Speaker 2: yes there are problems with like you know, monoculture, farming, 442 00:24:07,316 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 2: et cetera. 443 00:24:07,756 --> 00:24:08,356 Speaker 1: Et cetera. 444 00:24:08,396 --> 00:24:11,276 Speaker 2: But fundamental the way we have grown so much food 445 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:14,676 Speaker 2: is with uh more and more machines and fewer and 446 00:24:14,716 --> 00:24:19,076 Speaker 2: fewer people. How does that idea map to the places. 447 00:24:18,716 --> 00:24:22,676 Speaker 1: Where you're working. I think about this a lot. And 448 00:24:23,076 --> 00:24:26,236 Speaker 1: one of the big differences for the consolidation of land 449 00:24:26,276 --> 00:24:30,956 Speaker 1: in the US and how mechanization took fifty percent down 450 00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:34,876 Speaker 1: to two percent in terms of farmers is because at 451 00:24:34,876 --> 00:24:38,636 Speaker 1: that time it wasn't profitable to mechanize a small farm. 452 00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:43,076 Speaker 1: That's like one of the things now consolidation and economies 453 00:24:43,076 --> 00:24:45,596 Speaker 1: of scales is a really good thing. So like that 454 00:24:45,756 --> 00:24:48,396 Speaker 1: is one hundred percent part of the story. But also 455 00:24:48,436 --> 00:24:51,396 Speaker 1: you couldn't mechanize a small farm profitably. What we're doing 456 00:24:51,436 --> 00:24:55,716 Speaker 1: now you can mechanize an eighth of an acre profitably, 457 00:24:56,276 --> 00:24:59,596 Speaker 1: which means that you don't require consolidation in order for 458 00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:02,596 Speaker 1: your farm to be able to produce food. I don't 459 00:25:02,596 --> 00:25:04,476 Speaker 1: think there's going to be one solution for the future 460 00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:06,036 Speaker 1: of African farmers. I think there's going to be a 461 00:25:06,036 --> 00:25:08,476 Speaker 1: mix of consolidation. I think there's going to small I 462 00:25:08,476 --> 00:25:10,196 Speaker 1: think it's going to be a whole mix of it. 463 00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:14,636 Speaker 1: But the differences are that you can mechanize a small farm, 464 00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:18,276 Speaker 1: and culturally, sometimes the only asset that families own is 465 00:25:18,276 --> 00:25:20,956 Speaker 1: the farm, and it gets passed down generation after generation. 466 00:25:21,476 --> 00:25:25,996 Speaker 1: So it's a challenge to culturally switch people from giving 467 00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:27,796 Speaker 1: up their only asset that they have in their family 468 00:25:27,876 --> 00:25:30,316 Speaker 1: to pass down as an inheritance to being able to 469 00:25:30,316 --> 00:25:32,596 Speaker 1: sell that off. Now there are companies who are doing that. 470 00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:34,636 Speaker 1: I think they're going to do a very good job. 471 00:25:34,756 --> 00:25:37,276 Speaker 1: I think there's no one size fits all. I think 472 00:25:37,316 --> 00:25:39,676 Speaker 1: there will be some consolidation. I think they'll be farming 473 00:25:39,716 --> 00:25:41,596 Speaker 1: as a service. I think they'll be what we're doing. 474 00:25:41,636 --> 00:25:43,276 Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a whole mix of things. 475 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,476 Speaker 1: But it's not going to be because you can't mechanize 476 00:25:46,476 --> 00:25:49,516 Speaker 1: a profitable and make a small farm profitable. It will 477 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:52,876 Speaker 1: be because people like to buy rent or lease cars. 478 00:25:52,916 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 1: It's just going to be an option in the US 479 00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:56,236 Speaker 1: always because you had to. 480 00:25:57,076 --> 00:25:59,276 Speaker 2: Right, because there was no way to be a profitable 481 00:25:59,316 --> 00:26:02,796 Speaker 2: small farmer. Yeah, I mean you're you're making profitable not profitable, 482 00:26:02,796 --> 00:26:05,556 Speaker 2: this sort of binary thing, right, But it could be 483 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:09,596 Speaker 2: the case that you can make money as a small farmer, 484 00:26:10,076 --> 00:26:14,796 Speaker 2: but that land would be would produce more food, let's say, 485 00:26:14,836 --> 00:26:19,156 Speaker 2: with the same amount of inputs if it were consolidated, right. 486 00:26:19,196 --> 00:26:21,676 Speaker 2: Like that seems very plausible to me. And so while 487 00:26:21,716 --> 00:26:23,836 Speaker 2: at the level of the individual, and as you say, 488 00:26:23,836 --> 00:26:26,676 Speaker 2: culturally people might want to keep their farms, you could 489 00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:30,596 Speaker 2: imagine there being a pressure, you know, somebody might offer 490 00:26:30,636 --> 00:26:32,596 Speaker 2: them a lot of money because it would be not 491 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:35,596 Speaker 2: because it's some there's some evil capitalists, but because like, 492 00:26:36,276 --> 00:26:38,596 Speaker 2: their farm could be worth more if someone with more 493 00:26:38,596 --> 00:26:41,876 Speaker 2: access to capital and more consolidation bought it and started 494 00:26:41,916 --> 00:26:43,796 Speaker 2: growing food on it, right, And that doesn't seem like 495 00:26:43,916 --> 00:26:46,756 Speaker 2: necessarily an unhappy story, although I take your point that 496 00:26:47,156 --> 00:26:48,716 Speaker 2: culturally it might be complex. 497 00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:50,636 Speaker 1: Not a bad thing at all. I think it's great. 498 00:26:51,676 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 1: It's just it's an option, and it's I think I 499 00:26:55,076 --> 00:26:56,876 Speaker 1: think it's going to be. I don't think there's a 500 00:26:57,076 --> 00:26:59,116 Speaker 1: there's a better or worse here. I think there's it's 501 00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:02,276 Speaker 1: just it's an option. Yeah, fair, I feel like it's 502 00:27:02,356 --> 00:27:05,276 Speaker 1: gonna be. All these models have to exist at the 503 00:27:05,316 --> 00:27:07,356 Speaker 1: same time in order to figure out how to solve 504 00:27:07,476 --> 00:27:10,276 Speaker 1: the problems we're talking about. So I'm totally for it. 505 00:27:10,276 --> 00:27:12,516 Speaker 1: It's just not our business, but I'm totally for it. 506 00:27:12,956 --> 00:27:17,316 Speaker 2: So let's talk about the future of sun Culture. When 507 00:27:17,356 --> 00:27:19,716 Speaker 2: you look out over the next few years, what do. 508 00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:24,316 Speaker 1: You worry about. The biggest worry is we've added about 509 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:26,716 Speaker 1: forty percent of the people that we have today just 510 00:27:26,716 --> 00:27:31,276 Speaker 1: in the last two years, and we're growing quite fast. 511 00:27:31,396 --> 00:27:33,796 Speaker 1: And that's only started about two years ago. So two 512 00:27:33,876 --> 00:27:36,076 Speaker 1: years ago we started growing quicker than we ever have. 513 00:27:37,036 --> 00:27:39,996 Speaker 1: We went from you know, ten retail locations to thirty 514 00:27:40,036 --> 00:27:42,276 Speaker 1: retail locations in Kenyans. It's really just like building all 515 00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:45,636 Speaker 1: of the I hate the like figital like the physical 516 00:27:45,716 --> 00:27:47,596 Speaker 1: digital infrastructure to support that scale. 517 00:27:47,836 --> 00:27:51,156 Speaker 2: I never heard that before. I don't like it. 518 00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:54,356 Speaker 1: You can't I'm so sorry that I put that in 519 00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:56,716 Speaker 1: your life, but you're gonna thank me one day when 520 00:27:56,716 --> 00:28:00,436 Speaker 1: you use it at a party and someone laughs. So 521 00:28:00,476 --> 00:28:03,916 Speaker 1: it's all having all that in place. But we're growing faster, 522 00:28:04,596 --> 00:28:08,876 Speaker 1: and it's just making sure that we continue to bring 523 00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:12,036 Speaker 1: on people that align with our culture to make sure 524 00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:14,196 Speaker 1: that we have the right people in place. And it's 525 00:28:14,236 --> 00:28:15,876 Speaker 1: just like I think, I always think about it in 526 00:28:15,996 --> 00:28:18,116 Speaker 1: terms of a sports team. I used to play a 527 00:28:18,156 --> 00:28:21,036 Speaker 1: lot of soccer and you just got to sometimes change 528 00:28:21,076 --> 00:28:23,756 Speaker 1: the formation based off of who your opponent is. And 529 00:28:23,796 --> 00:28:26,556 Speaker 1: we just have to make sure we continue to iterate 530 00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:29,796 Speaker 1: on our org structure, where people are, who we have 531 00:28:29,876 --> 00:28:32,036 Speaker 1: in place to make sure we can continue to scale. 532 00:28:32,036 --> 00:28:33,796 Speaker 1: And that is a big focus of mine. 533 00:28:35,036 --> 00:28:38,716 Speaker 2: If things go well, where will the company be in 534 00:28:39,196 --> 00:28:39,876 Speaker 2: five years? 535 00:28:41,876 --> 00:28:47,116 Speaker 1: If things go well? There's there's different levels of well. 536 00:28:47,636 --> 00:28:52,676 Speaker 1: So level one of well is we're at few hundred 537 00:28:52,716 --> 00:28:56,836 Speaker 1: thousand farmers all paying us this dollar a day to 538 00:28:56,836 --> 00:29:00,196 Speaker 1: get access to services that they need. They're happy, they're 539 00:29:00,196 --> 00:29:02,996 Speaker 1: making more money. Our net promoter score for our customers 540 00:29:03,076 --> 00:29:07,036 Speaker 1: is seventy eight. It's so high. Our customers are so happy, 541 00:29:07,276 --> 00:29:12,716 Speaker 1: and that continues to stay there. Level two is we're 542 00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:18,076 Speaker 1: able to then potentially move what we're doing into different 543 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:22,596 Speaker 1: farm sizes. So maybe we help with the folks who 544 00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:25,796 Speaker 1: are operating larger plots of land to your point, maybe 545 00:29:25,836 --> 00:29:28,716 Speaker 1: the tens of acres to become more efficient, to be 546 00:29:28,796 --> 00:29:31,196 Speaker 1: able to produce more food, to be able to hire 547 00:29:31,236 --> 00:29:33,996 Speaker 1: people and create jobs around them. And I think that's 548 00:29:33,996 --> 00:29:36,276 Speaker 1: something we're really interested in. How do we take what 549 00:29:36,316 --> 00:29:42,636 Speaker 1: we've learned around renewable energy and agriculture and financing and 550 00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:47,636 Speaker 1: bring that to larger farms in different geographies. So can 551 00:29:47,676 --> 00:29:51,036 Speaker 1: we take what we're doing and bring it elsewhere not 552 00:29:51,076 --> 00:29:53,676 Speaker 1: only from a geographer perpective, but also from a size. 553 00:29:53,476 --> 00:30:00,516 Speaker 2: Perspective Geographically, do you think you might grow the business 554 00:30:00,516 --> 00:30:01,676 Speaker 2: outside of Africa? 555 00:30:01,836 --> 00:30:06,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, not for the next few years. But we've looked 556 00:30:06,116 --> 00:30:10,556 Speaker 1: at We've looked actively at places in Central Asia, We've 557 00:30:11,396 --> 00:30:14,436 Speaker 1: looked actively at places in South Asia, We've looked at 558 00:30:14,436 --> 00:30:18,036 Speaker 1: places in Latin America. So it's not a now thing, 559 00:30:18,116 --> 00:30:21,076 Speaker 1: it's not a twenty twenty seventh thing, but it's it's 560 00:30:21,156 --> 00:30:26,276 Speaker 1: a thing. And it's just again going back to team. 561 00:30:26,356 --> 00:30:27,556 Speaker 1: Do we have the right team in place to be 562 00:30:27,556 --> 00:30:29,876 Speaker 1: able to do this and can we replicate this in 563 00:30:29,916 --> 00:30:33,516 Speaker 1: other markets with the right people. It's less now about 564 00:30:33,676 --> 00:30:38,396 Speaker 1: a viability thing. It's more can we manage it as 565 00:30:38,436 --> 00:30:42,436 Speaker 1: a team. That's really the question. We don't necessarily want 566 00:30:42,476 --> 00:30:45,276 Speaker 1: to spread ourselves too thin right now, but there there 567 00:30:45,356 --> 00:30:47,076 Speaker 1: is a moral question of like, if you can do 568 00:30:47,116 --> 00:30:48,756 Speaker 1: this in other places, why not just go balls to 569 00:30:48,756 --> 00:30:51,196 Speaker 1: the wall right Like it's a necessary, needed thing. You 570 00:30:51,196 --> 00:30:53,796 Speaker 1: can build your business much bigger. And there's this sort 571 00:30:53,836 --> 00:30:56,316 Speaker 1: of how do you how do we make sure we 572 00:30:56,356 --> 00:30:58,796 Speaker 1: do that sustainably? We don't want to run into the 573 00:30:58,796 --> 00:31:02,356 Speaker 1: situation where we grow too fast and the wheels fall off. 574 00:31:02,556 --> 00:31:04,716 Speaker 1: So it's this, it's this delicate balance of what that 575 00:31:04,756 --> 00:31:07,876 Speaker 1: looks like, and it's it's it is a definite yes 576 00:31:07,996 --> 00:31:10,796 Speaker 1: we will. It's just question is when, so your five 577 00:31:10,876 --> 00:31:13,076 Speaker 1: year timeframe seems seems possible. 578 00:31:15,036 --> 00:31:16,996 Speaker 2: Now, gaze off into the distance and give me your 579 00:31:16,996 --> 00:31:17,916 Speaker 2: big injury thoughts. 580 00:31:20,476 --> 00:31:28,036 Speaker 1: What I find really inspirational from a business perspective is 581 00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:31,956 Speaker 1: that smaller farmers who are who are often written off 582 00:31:31,996 --> 00:31:34,716 Speaker 1: as like very poor people, you can't sell to them, 583 00:31:34,756 --> 00:31:39,396 Speaker 1: et cetera, are now becoming real consumers. And it's almost 584 00:31:39,396 --> 00:31:42,996 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley talk, we're almost increasing wallet size and 585 00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:45,476 Speaker 1: taking a share of wallet. Like you get people to 586 00:31:45,516 --> 00:31:48,796 Speaker 1: make more money and then you sell them stuff. It 587 00:31:48,916 --> 00:31:50,436 Speaker 1: just so happens that the things we sell them are 588 00:31:50,476 --> 00:31:52,636 Speaker 1: like insurances and access to inputs, but we're selling them 589 00:31:52,676 --> 00:31:58,436 Speaker 1: more stuff. And when you start looking at smaller farmers 590 00:31:58,436 --> 00:32:01,116 Speaker 1: as consumer market, there is a view that they're one 591 00:32:01,156 --> 00:32:04,196 Speaker 1: of the largest untapped consumer markets in the world. We 592 00:32:04,276 --> 00:32:06,916 Speaker 1: have all of this interesting data of who they are, 593 00:32:07,116 --> 00:32:09,716 Speaker 1: what they're growing, how they use their irrigations, what their 594 00:32:09,756 --> 00:32:13,356 Speaker 1: payments are like, and we can now start to layer 595 00:32:13,476 --> 00:32:19,636 Speaker 1: on with the demographic and geographic and payment data, the 596 00:32:19,756 --> 00:32:23,316 Speaker 1: types of the types of things they're asking for, and 597 00:32:23,356 --> 00:32:26,156 Speaker 1: we now start to become sort of the entry point 598 00:32:26,396 --> 00:32:29,676 Speaker 1: for an emerging consumer market. I think what we're doing 599 00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:31,956 Speaker 1: is a way to do that. It's not the only way, 600 00:32:32,356 --> 00:32:36,156 Speaker 1: but it is enabling the largest group of consumers or 601 00:32:36,196 --> 00:32:38,636 Speaker 1: potential consumers to make more money, and I think that 602 00:32:38,716 --> 00:32:41,356 Speaker 1: might be a transition. And instead of looking at this 603 00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:44,796 Speaker 1: work only as impact and development work, but you think 604 00:32:44,836 --> 00:32:49,516 Speaker 1: about it as sort of a way to build the 605 00:32:49,556 --> 00:32:53,916 Speaker 1: consumer industry. Things get really interesting, especially if you look 606 00:32:53,956 --> 00:32:56,796 Speaker 1: at the trajectory that East Asia had in Southeast Asia 607 00:32:57,116 --> 00:33:00,876 Speaker 1: that Africa hasn't necessarily had because you have, like eighty 608 00:33:00,916 --> 00:33:05,116 Speaker 1: percent of their jobs are informal, and by twenty fifty, 609 00:33:05,156 --> 00:33:08,076 Speaker 1: one in four people on Earth will be African. One 610 00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:11,476 Speaker 1: in three working people by twenty fifty will be African. 611 00:33:12,156 --> 00:33:14,436 Speaker 1: Half of all new entrance into the global workforce will 612 00:33:14,436 --> 00:33:16,196 Speaker 1: come from South sou in Africa. Like, it's just like 613 00:33:16,316 --> 00:33:20,036 Speaker 1: really big consumer opportunity, but instead of starting with the 614 00:33:20,116 --> 00:33:23,796 Speaker 1: ride sharing or a delivery app, I believe it needs 615 00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:26,276 Speaker 1: to start with helping people increase incomes. And that's where 616 00:33:26,316 --> 00:33:27,236 Speaker 1: the irrigation comes in. 617 00:33:31,196 --> 00:33:33,236 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. 618 00:33:42,476 --> 00:33:47,236 Speaker 2: Let's finish with the lightning round. So your parents, is 619 00:33:47,236 --> 00:33:50,396 Speaker 2: it right? Your parents are from East Africa. They moved 620 00:33:50,556 --> 00:33:52,756 Speaker 2: first to Canada and then to the United States. 621 00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:53,676 Speaker 1: That's right. 622 00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:56,156 Speaker 2: Presumably I'm making a guess here, but it's sort of 623 00:33:56,196 --> 00:33:58,556 Speaker 2: the classic immigrant story of wanting to give their family 624 00:33:58,596 --> 00:34:02,396 Speaker 2: a better life. You moved back to East Africa. So 625 00:34:02,556 --> 00:34:05,396 Speaker 2: was that like a disappointment to them? Were they like, 626 00:34:05,436 --> 00:34:06,356 Speaker 2: come on, man. 627 00:34:07,516 --> 00:34:14,156 Speaker 1: My parents are really good at not telling me when 628 00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:17,276 Speaker 1: they're when things when they think it's going to put 629 00:34:17,596 --> 00:34:20,716 Speaker 1: pressure or like put me down. So I didn't. I 630 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:23,716 Speaker 1: didn't find out that until a few years later that 631 00:34:23,796 --> 00:34:26,076 Speaker 1: they were like, what the hell is this guy doing? 632 00:34:27,916 --> 00:34:30,316 Speaker 1: They told me. They told me later that they were like, 633 00:34:30,436 --> 00:34:32,796 Speaker 1: you know what, we're just going to think about it 634 00:34:32,796 --> 00:34:35,276 Speaker 1: as an MBA. He's gonna go for a year or two. 635 00:34:35,916 --> 00:34:38,116 Speaker 1: It's just like he's going to school, and that's fine. 636 00:34:38,516 --> 00:34:41,796 Speaker 1: And then like later they're like you're still They're like, 637 00:34:41,876 --> 00:34:44,076 Speaker 1: oh cool, now they're super proud and stuff. But you know, 638 00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:46,716 Speaker 1: I was living in their immigrant dream. I was self 639 00:34:46,716 --> 00:34:50,716 Speaker 1: sufficient in Manhattan. I just started working in PwC. They 640 00:34:50,716 --> 00:34:55,396 Speaker 1: were like, we win. We left East Africa accounting account 641 00:34:55,516 --> 00:34:58,276 Speaker 1: accounting firm. I was doing consulting there for them. They 642 00:34:58,276 --> 00:35:00,796 Speaker 1: were like, we won, We won the game. We won 643 00:35:00,876 --> 00:35:03,716 Speaker 1: the immigrant game. We left EDIOM and was causing problems. 644 00:35:03,756 --> 00:35:06,476 Speaker 1: We left and like we won. And then I'm like, 645 00:35:06,596 --> 00:35:09,316 Speaker 1: so I need to go to East Africa and I 646 00:35:09,356 --> 00:35:11,236 Speaker 1: need to figure out how to borrow some money from people. 647 00:35:11,876 --> 00:35:15,556 Speaker 1: So they went and borrowed money from two uncles, a 648 00:35:15,556 --> 00:35:20,036 Speaker 1: grandparent themselves lent it. They never told me where they 649 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:22,476 Speaker 1: got it from, which would have also stressed about we 650 00:35:22,556 --> 00:35:25,116 Speaker 1: paid it back. And I think after we paid it back, 651 00:35:25,156 --> 00:35:27,996 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, wow, you're there, like, this is what 652 00:35:28,036 --> 00:35:31,116 Speaker 1: you're doing? Cool? And now obviously they're really they're really 653 00:35:31,276 --> 00:35:36,956 Speaker 1: happy and proud and yeah, do they have equity? They 654 00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:38,756 Speaker 1: don't have the company? They don't. 655 00:35:38,996 --> 00:35:42,316 Speaker 2: Oh you should give them some after all that. 656 00:35:43,676 --> 00:35:45,636 Speaker 1: One of the big drivers for me is to I 657 00:35:45,876 --> 00:35:47,836 Speaker 1: would like to retire them. 658 00:35:48,236 --> 00:35:51,636 Speaker 2: So, oh that's very sweet. Yeah, I mean I didn't 659 00:35:51,676 --> 00:35:56,356 Speaker 2: ask you about exiting. Like, is there some universe where 660 00:35:56,356 --> 00:35:58,636 Speaker 2: you sell the company or sell part of the company. 661 00:35:58,716 --> 00:36:02,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a universe. There's for sure universe. I mean, 662 00:36:02,756 --> 00:36:06,156 Speaker 1: my job as a CEO is to provide investors' returns. Technically, 663 00:36:06,836 --> 00:36:09,036 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that it all has to go right. 664 00:36:09,116 --> 00:36:10,516 Speaker 1: So there's a world in which we sell it. There's 665 00:36:10,516 --> 00:36:12,436 Speaker 1: a world in which you have to pride off of me. 666 00:36:13,756 --> 00:36:17,996 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of different options going forward. The 667 00:36:18,036 --> 00:36:23,316 Speaker 1: most important thing is how do you get to scale fastest? Yeah? 668 00:36:23,356 --> 00:36:25,156 Speaker 2: What is the rate limiting step for you? 669 00:36:25,276 --> 00:36:31,876 Speaker 1: Now? In scaling, there are two things that would change 670 00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:34,436 Speaker 1: the game for us. One is in our control. One 671 00:36:34,476 --> 00:36:37,396 Speaker 1: is not in our control. In our control, it's can 672 00:36:37,436 --> 00:36:42,076 Speaker 1: we have a thousand times more sales agents in the field, 673 00:36:42,556 --> 00:36:45,276 Speaker 1: and if that's the case, then we can almost think 674 00:36:45,316 --> 00:36:48,556 Speaker 1: about scaling linearly, but just by adding people and can 675 00:36:48,556 --> 00:36:51,276 Speaker 1: we manage that growth. So that's one thing that is 676 00:36:51,316 --> 00:36:54,876 Speaker 1: in our control. The thing not in our control is 677 00:36:55,996 --> 00:37:01,996 Speaker 1: does a multilateral institution come with a large subsidy and 678 00:37:03,476 --> 00:37:05,356 Speaker 1: a time bound five year subsidy? 679 00:37:05,676 --> 00:37:06,996 Speaker 2: Does that mean the World Bank? 680 00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:07,516 Speaker 1: For you? 681 00:37:07,636 --> 00:37:08,836 Speaker 2: Does that mean the World Bank? 682 00:37:08,916 --> 00:37:12,796 Speaker 1: That does? Yeah, do we have a subsidy in Uganda 683 00:37:12,836 --> 00:37:15,876 Speaker 1: through the World Bank? But is there a large is 684 00:37:15,916 --> 00:37:21,276 Speaker 1: there a larger scale multi country subsidy for access to 685 00:37:21,316 --> 00:37:24,156 Speaker 1: electricity and what people call productive use of energy? So 686 00:37:24,516 --> 00:37:27,396 Speaker 1: what we're doing basically productivity. 687 00:37:26,956 --> 00:37:29,156 Speaker 2: Turning water into food class. 688 00:37:28,836 --> 00:37:32,676 Speaker 1: Water into product classic productivity, that would be that would 689 00:37:32,716 --> 00:37:35,476 Speaker 1: be a huge that would be a huge game changer. 690 00:37:36,436 --> 00:37:38,876 Speaker 1: If if that and and it looks like it will happen, 691 00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:42,796 Speaker 1: it's just when. But that's that's the moment at which 692 00:37:43,316 --> 00:37:45,276 Speaker 1: we then push a lot of capital into the system 693 00:37:45,316 --> 00:37:49,036 Speaker 1: and really hire those agents skilled in new markets, et cetera. 694 00:37:49,516 --> 00:37:51,676 Speaker 1: And that's that's the moment. So just making sure we're 695 00:37:51,716 --> 00:37:52,236 Speaker 1: ready for that. 696 00:37:53,236 --> 00:37:59,316 Speaker 2: Back to your parents, Yeah, living in East Africa helped 697 00:37:59,316 --> 00:38:03,716 Speaker 2: you understand your parents better in any particular ways. 698 00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:07,796 Speaker 1: Nobody has ever asked me that question, and it is 699 00:38:08,556 --> 00:38:11,756 Speaker 1: part of what I think about most as a theme. 700 00:38:12,516 --> 00:38:15,916 Speaker 1: And there's there's no question about why we started in 701 00:38:15,956 --> 00:38:18,836 Speaker 1: East Africa versus anywhere else. I can tell you it's 702 00:38:18,836 --> 00:38:21,436 Speaker 1: because Kenya is an English speaking country and because there's 703 00:38:21,436 --> 00:38:23,756 Speaker 1: a port and blah blah blah, but it's because my 704 00:38:23,756 --> 00:38:27,516 Speaker 1: family's from there, and like that's that's there's an affinity 705 00:38:27,556 --> 00:38:32,836 Speaker 1: to it. So I learned a lot about my parents 706 00:38:32,876 --> 00:38:37,116 Speaker 1: are tough and smart and like charismatic, and it's it's 707 00:38:37,236 --> 00:38:39,836 Speaker 1: very East African vibe and kind of seeing how they 708 00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:44,396 Speaker 1: grew up has helped me understand that. 709 00:38:43,436 --> 00:38:46,956 Speaker 2: That last sentence was quite interesting when you say they're 710 00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:49,876 Speaker 2: tough and smart and charismatic and that's an East African vibe, 711 00:38:49,916 --> 00:38:52,236 Speaker 2: Like what do you mean by that. 712 00:38:54,156 --> 00:38:57,796 Speaker 1: Tough? As in My mom's dad died when she was seven, 713 00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:02,276 Speaker 1: and she had six older brothers and they moved from 714 00:39:03,436 --> 00:39:07,716 Speaker 1: Belgium to Congo to them Kenya and there's this sort 715 00:39:07,716 --> 00:39:10,916 Speaker 1: of and I you know, I've met my my one 716 00:39:10,956 --> 00:39:13,716 Speaker 1: of my mom's cousins still lives in Kenya and his mom, 717 00:39:13,756 --> 00:39:16,676 Speaker 1: who recons passed away raised was like raised my mom 718 00:39:17,076 --> 00:39:19,876 Speaker 1: helped raise my mom for a few years. Meeting her 719 00:39:19,916 --> 00:39:22,076 Speaker 1: and hearing the stories and seeing where my mom grew 720 00:39:22,156 --> 00:39:27,316 Speaker 1: up helped me understand that toughness of her. But it's 721 00:39:27,356 --> 00:39:29,516 Speaker 1: like you hear the stories, but then you see it 722 00:39:29,916 --> 00:39:33,356 Speaker 1: and you see them in that place, and that really 723 00:39:34,116 --> 00:39:34,956 Speaker 1: brings it together. 724 00:39:36,436 --> 00:39:39,436 Speaker 2: Tell me about the Buffalo Ranch sub at publics? 725 00:39:40,836 --> 00:39:45,596 Speaker 1: Where did you get this shitternet? What? 726 00:39:46,836 --> 00:39:47,196 Speaker 2: Where? 727 00:39:47,236 --> 00:39:52,996 Speaker 1: This is wild? That is so good. That's so good. 728 00:39:55,916 --> 00:40:00,876 Speaker 1: Oh man, that's great. That is really good stuff. My 729 00:40:00,916 --> 00:40:03,436 Speaker 1: wife's a journalist and I have a lot of respect 730 00:40:03,476 --> 00:40:04,396 Speaker 1: for that. 731 00:40:04,396 --> 00:40:05,236 Speaker 2: That was awesome. 732 00:40:06,796 --> 00:40:12,796 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it is delicious. It is also something 733 00:40:12,796 --> 00:40:17,756 Speaker 1: that will change your life. It's like, you know, I 734 00:40:17,796 --> 00:40:19,996 Speaker 1: grew up in Orlando and Publix was the grocery store 735 00:40:19,996 --> 00:40:25,196 Speaker 1: we went. It's a regional grocery store and it's just 736 00:40:25,276 --> 00:40:29,396 Speaker 1: the Buffalo sub there is just so so delicious. 737 00:40:36,316 --> 00:40:40,556 Speaker 2: Samir Ibrahim is the co founder and CEO at Sun Culture. 738 00:40:41,076 --> 00:40:44,396 Speaker 2: Please email us at problem at Pushkin dot fm. We 739 00:40:44,436 --> 00:40:45,916 Speaker 2: are always looking for new. 740 00:40:45,836 --> 00:40:46,916 Speaker 1: Guests for the show. 741 00:40:47,756 --> 00:40:51,556 Speaker 2: Today's show was produced by Trinomanino and Gabriel Hunter Chang. 742 00:40:51,916 --> 00:40:55,596 Speaker 2: It was edited by Alexander Garreton and engineered. 743 00:40:55,116 --> 00:40:56,036 Speaker 1: By Sarah Bruguero. 744 00:40:56,356 --> 00:40:58,516 Speaker 2: I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with 745 00:40:58,556 --> 00:41:07,316 Speaker 2: another episode of What's Your Problem.